Turkey accelerates work on its own fifth generation fighter

Turkey is accelerating work on the creation of a fifth-generation domestic fighter TF-X. As part of the development of the new aircraft, the Turkish company Turkish Aerospace has confirmed that a new facility with a wind tunnel and a lightning simulation test center will be built for testing the fighter. This is reported by the Ukrainian edition of Defense Express with reference to the portal airrecognition.com.

Turkish developers have confirmed that according to plans, the first Turkish fifth-generation fighter TF-X will roll off the assembly line on March 18, 2023. The acceleration of work on this topic is due to the exclusion of Ankara from the development program of the American fifth generation F-35 fighter and the refusal to supply it. Within the framework of this program, it is planned to open a Center for Assistance to Aircraft Testing Against the Impact of Lightning in Turkey, which will also house a wind tunnel.

The promising Turkish fighter TF-X (MMU) is being developed jointly by Turkish Aircraft Corporation Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) in collaboration with BAE Systems. The first flight of the first prototype TF-X is scheduled for 2023 year. By design, the TF-X is reminiscent of the fifth-generation American fighter, it is smaller in size than the F-22, but slightly larger than the F-35.

The Air Force plans to replace most of its American F-16C / D Viper fighters with it and hopes that the first deliveries to the troops will begin in 2028. At the first stage, the fighters will use American F-16 engines, then the aircraft will be equipped with a proprietary power plant. It is specified that the first flight of a fighter with a Turkish engine will take place no earlier than 2029.

Comments

[Thrifty]

Will their plane fly on f16 engines? This, like the Chinese, has a glider, electronics, as it were, "their own" - more precisely, "they took from a certain trader in the bazaar," but that trader did not have a good engine. ... we fly on what God sent from Russia! So here, full de-javu. ..and the South Koreans are also making the 5th generation non-engine airplane, and they will fly for many years on other people's engines. ..directly, there will be a queue of "horseless" in the world engine market. ..

[vkl.47]

Their plans are "Napoleonic". For three years then ... interestingly interesting.

[VO3A]

Why only the 5th generation? Let them build the 6th or 7th at once .. They buy an old engine from Raphael and cope ... As in our forum, no one has a clue about a 5th generation aircraft, and in Turkey, even more so ... I declare that no one will define a 5th generation aircraft ...

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: vkl.47

Their plans are "Napoleonic". For three years then ... interestingly interesting.

will not pull economically. not now.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Thrifty

and the South Koreans are also making the 5th generation non-engine aircraft, and they will fly for many years on other people's engines. ...

and Japanese

[Sergey_G_M]

F16 flies on one engine, Turetsky will be two from F16, why can't he fly?
The Chinese with electronics are perhaps even better than ours, they use engines, both their own and ours, and the resource of Chinese engines is not very good, but this problem can be solved.
You shouldn't consider everyone as completely stupid and backward.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Sergey_G_M

F16 flies on one engine, Turetsky will be two from F16, why can't he fly?

The F16 and F15 have the same engines.

[RUnnm]

The main question is which engine? Is it able to keep the afterburner at cruising speed?

[Oquzyurd]

At the initial stage, 2 engines from F-16, reliable, will withstand

[Al_lexx]

Quote: RUnnm

Is it able to keep the afterburner at cruising speed?

He whinnied for a long time and inconsolably ..)))

[Hydrography Bay Golden Horn]

And they will, I'm sure just

[Titus_2]

Of course, they will do it, and I, as well as you, are only sure that even those who are now beginning to live up to this moment when their plane and even on their engines.

[ultra]

Yeah, the wind tunnel can and will be made before the age of 28.

[APASUS]

Remember this idea for 5-6 years already. The Turks were faced with the fact that they did not have about 5 critical technologies on this topic. Then they turned to the United States. In response, they received an offer to purchase F-35 and transfer part of production to Turkey. Now the Turks again have resumed the program, have they already acquired technologies?

[Grazdanin]

Quote: APASUS

have they already acquired technology?

Looks like. He makes key components for the F35, the radar station with AFAR, according to their statements, has made, cooperation with Ukraine is extremely close. They can work with Israel and South Korea. There was talk of joint projects with Rolls Royce and Saab.

[Cyril G ...]

Rake our FSE. I'm sure that they will make a 5th generation fighter. I'm not sure only after 20 years or 30, or even all 40. As I remember, unlike the Nipponians, the Turks did not develop their own national fighter of the 3rd and 4th generations, or even a combat training aircraft. Here are the Nippons yes. Developed. They developed the F-70 fighter-bomber in the 1s, followed by the F-2. And several types of combat trainers.

[Oquzyurd]

The Turks have finished testing their TUSAŞ Hürkuş combat trainer, which can be said to be ready for production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY5wvuLcSn4
In parallel, they are diligently preparing the small Hurcet jet, scheduling its maiden flight in the spring of 2022. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnv5WiWECxM
This is how they quietly gain experience, technology, and specialists.

[Cyril G ...]

Cool. Finally the Turks made their Tucano. Less than 40 years have passed. Are you sure that with such a baggage you can take on the highest achievement of science and technology, which is a modern fighter?

[Oquzyurd]

It took 40 years, they did not do this, but in the last decade they accelerated so that others did what they did in 50 years, they put it on 10. It will be the same with planes. You do not know the persistence and determination of this people, especially since them a new generation of engineers, programmers, specialists in materials science, technology ... and so on. Think for yourself, 10 years ago who would have thought that the Turks would serially let in UAVs of various modifications, produce smart missiles for them, and apply successfully ? Everyone would have laughed, saying that with tourism, tomatoes are not even able to assemble a cart, but many were shocked by mistaken prejudices ...

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

You don’t know the persistence and determination of this people, especially since they have a new generation of engineers, programmers, materials scientists, technology ... and so on.

Yes, I'm not interested ..... The Soviet people in many times worse conditions and achieved many times better results. So I do not see point-blank achievement in the creation of an aircraft in terms of performance characteristics corresponding to the 40s of the last century ...

[NEOZ]

you cannot accelerate what is not ...

[Herman 4223]

If the engines are from F-16, and the dimensions are less than F-22, then the flight characteristics should be at the same level. Let's see what happens.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Herman 4223

If the engines are from f-16, and dimensions are less than f-22

Hybrid F35 and F15

[Herman 4223]

If so, then this plane will be very good. A sort of f-15 with an unobtrusive glider. If they make their own engines, then commercial success can await him.

[Grazdanin]

F15 / 16 engines are very good, especially for poor countries. Long service life, low operating costs, extremely high market prevalence. It will be easier to rearm whoever had an F16 fleet.

[Grazdanin]

South Korea / Japan / Turkey projects are very similar. They come as additional to the F35, twin-engine, similar in size, 4 ++ / 5 generation.

[Herman 4223]

Korea will have a light car, engines from F-18, without internal compartments. I have heard little about the Japanese car except that it will be created.

[voyaka uh]

The F-16 engine is not a record holder for thrust, but a record holder for resource. And two will give a total of high traction. Not sure if the 5th generation will turn out, but 4 ++ will. Turkey has a good engineering school, technology, military electronics.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: voyaka uh

Not sure if the 5th generation will turn out, but 4 ++ will do

Well, or 5 - -
They do not need to make an "unparalleled in the world" aircraft, a sufficiently high-quality average in terms of parameters 4ku / not up to 5ku. And it is important to fully return to the F35 project. This is enough for their theater of operations.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

And it is important to fully return to the F35 project.

Why does a sovereign state need Pipelats controlled entirely from the United States?

[Grazdanin]

They need to arm their UDC, get the latest technologies, and the plane itself is excellent, really having no analogues in the world.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: voyaka uh

Turkey has a good engineering school,

List the fighters and UBS developed in Turkey over the past 40 years ...

[Herman 4223]

Engineers are different, a tire from a wheel is also needed, but will he be able to design an airplane?

[Grazdanin]

jointly with the Turkish aircraft corporation Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) in cooperation with the corporation BAE Systems.

The Turks are not alone. Themselves naturally will not stretch.
https://www.baesystems.com/en/what-we-do/products-and-services?siteAjax=Global&facetsFoldStatus=business_title%3Aclosed&searchSort=sort-default&searchPageNo=5&searchQuery=*&facet_domain_title=Air

[Mr.X]

Have the Turks adjusted Altai or are they still buying the engine from the Germans?

[Oquzyurd]

The first 250 tanks will be German engines. But they themselves have already prepared the first sample of the engine (1200 liters) and the transmission. But they say there is still a lot of work, material tests ... etc., until we get 1500-1700 liters. In general, the order of the aircraft for 1000 tanks They hope that while they have assembled 250 units, their engines will arrive in time, since they can then sell tanks abroad only with their own engines.

[Mr.X]

Well then, what kind of jet engines can we talk about in at least 20 years.

[Piramidon]

Turkey accelerates work on the creation of a fifth generation domestic fighter

It would be interesting to look at their development and production of generation 3-4 fighters. Or did you decide to jump straight from the "stone" age to the "bronze" one?

[voyaka uh]

There are examples: Israel's first aircraft was the 3rd generation Kfir. A copy of the obsolete Mirage based on stolen blueprints. Its release was established. He fought successfully and was successfully exported.
The next was Rabi of the 4th generation. An approximate analogue of the F-16. 3 pieces were produced. The technology was sold to China, where it is converted into service.

[NEOZ]

Quote: voyaka uh

There are examples: Israel's first plane was

Is there a production of jet engines in Israel?

[voyaka uh]

There is a jet engine overhaul plant. Engines from F-16 and Boeing aircraft. Fighters fly over from Europe, the engine is removed, sorted out, tested, assembled back.

[NEOZ]

Quote: voyaka uh

There is a jet engine overhaul plant.

well, in every city we have car services that can power almost any engine ... but this does not mean that every city has a production of engines ...
I hope the analogy is intelligible.

[Castro Ruiz]

Silovaya ustanovka sobstvenoy rozrabotki dla 5.pokolenia v TR? Shto to ne tak.

[bar]

Why waste time on trifles? We would have taken the 6+ generation right away so as not to get up twice ...

[Oquzyurd]

Bad joke. The Baikar company has been working on a project of a jet drone for a long time. This is 6 generations of aircraft. It will not take long, we will all see this aircraft in the sky. They are waiting for a test tube, which is being built in Turkey. We could rent and drive there in other countries. but in the form of secrecy of the project they do not want to show it ahead of time.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Baykar has been working on a jet drone project for a long time.

Where is more information? Thanks about the information about airplanes, I didn't know.

[Oquzyurd]

The military expert Mete Yarar recently visited (he was allowed) in the closed workshops of the Baikar company. He told a lot of interesting things (what was allowed) on his YouTube channel. And he said that I can't tell much, but hinted at a jet drone, added, that work on this has been going on for a long time, maybe Baikar will tell you soon, maybe show a new prototype ...

[Grazdanin]

They need to bring Akinchi to the series first, after which they seem to be activated with a jet UAV. On the Hurcet base it is possible.

[Oquzyurd]

One does not interfere with the other. Finances, engineers and specialists are enough to conduct several large projects in parallel. The Turks have the main problem - engines (jet, tank), which they have already begun to successfully solve. And the rest is. By the way, they have successfully completed the mini Turbo tests. Jet engine. Experts say that they have overcome the main difficulties. There are already in the hands of the engine, materials, manufacturing technology from and to. This engine will be put into series, only the dimensions and parameters will be as needed, from mini to maximum. I will add that the Turks have created a very powerful center for testing jet engines, the analogue of which has only 5-6 countries in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxfJgunHRxQ

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Oquzyurd

the main problem is engines (jet, tank)

This is the main problem for everyone. In principle, units of countries build their engines.

Quote: Oquzyurd

One does not interfere with the other. There is enough finance, engineers and specialists to conduct several large projects in parallel.

This is not the point. It is necessary to develop technologies, test (if it is ideal in battle), work out the work of weapons, ground systems, etc. Akinchi, a class higher than Bayraktar and Anka. With it, most of the electronics can go to a jet UAV.

[Oquzyurd]

Akinchi has 40 computer blocks. Stuffed with The Turks have excellent military programmers, they will do everything for a jet UAV)

[Grazdanin]

No doubt. If Akinchi is done as promised on the site, then reactive is not a problem. Except for the engine. But it is not so fundamental for a UAV, you can buy a license for an old, proven engine (in extreme cases).
By the way, are the F16 engines assembled from ready-made kits? What is the degree of localization?

[Oquzyurd]

“What is the degree of localization?” I don’t have such information, and I haven’t seen it)

[Oquzyurd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw22BmlzVdc Прикольный аппарат

[Grazdanin]

For Turkey, relevant, given the climate

[Oquzyurd]

Yes, all the more quiet, smoke-free, eco-friendly, urban.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

you can buy a license for an old, proven engine (as a last resort).

This is not an extreme case, but the only possible option. My only question is, are there many licenses for the production of modern engines suitable for tactical aircraft sold today? since the 80s?
Russia did not sell Al-31. The WS-10 is a product of the long evolution of the purchased American CFM-56 into the size of a fighter. An interesting question about RD-33. At least on Pakistani Thunders there are Klimovsk engines of our production. The Chinese motor was abandoned.
Eurofight and Raphael motors are products of European firms - I don’t remember them selling a license ...
Was the Pratt Whitney F-100 sold to anyone? I mean, not the motor itself, but a license for an independent release?

[Grazdanin]

Yes, they will decide in some way. They don't need a super duper engine.
I'm more worried that our Su-57 does not have new engines.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

Yes, they will decide in some way.

What is it? Along the way, only buying ready-made motors. Satellites for work in space are sculpted by all and sundry. But manufacturers of aircraft engines for 4th generation fighters are considered on the fingers of a hand - the United States, United Europe (Eurojet EJ200), France, Russia, China. I can't say exactly for Japan. Is there a licensed production of motors there?
Its own motor - a quarter of a century. Minium. consider it a verdict.

By the way, the Su-57 looks more than good without product 30 ... And product 30 is already flying and there is no doubt about its refinement from the word at all

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Baikar has been working on a jet drone project for a long time, which is the 6th generation of aircraft.

Just a jet drone means absolutely nothing. From the word in general. If it is the 6th generation, it should surpass in all respects both the F-35 and the Su-57 and even the J-20. However, you yourself perfectly understand that this will not happen. You can’t jump into the 30st century with aircraft, including unmanned aircraft of your own development, comparable in performance characteristics to aircraft of the second half of the 40s, early 21s, no matter how much you would like to prove otherwise.

which they have already begun to solve successfully.

Successfully solve this when the engine is ALREADY in series. Engines are simply impossible high-tech today.

[Oquzyurd]

In the digital age, everything is possible. The main thing is to catch the trend. Like in electric cars. Many knowledge of old companies with 100 years of experience (fueled engines, transmissions to them, etc.) will go down in history. Countries that have not created their own cars. can create their own auto industry on equal terms, or close to equal conditions. The Turks also set their sights on this segment, realizing that this time it is impossible to "miss the train"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2plBcVDzy6g
Literally the faith of their company HIDROMEK presented the world's first urban wheeled electric excavator, technologically advanced, eco-friendly, and battery-powered, which is produced in Turkey. 8 hours on a single charge, 1,5 hours recharge time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw22BmlzVdc
People work, they try, they want to keep up with the modern world, and they do a lot.

[Pavel57]

With engines it can be a bummer.

[Ryaruav]

Turkey and India are approximately very close in terms of technology 5th generation fighter for both countries is not available until 2039 from the word at all

[Cyril G ...]

The Indians did not really pull out Tejas, the Chinese bought the whole technical projects of Lavi and Su-27. The Japanese are the closest to the top five in my opinion. They built themselves and the jet TCS and UBS of national design. They designed and serially built 2 3rd and 4th generation Fighter-Bomber. Serially licensed F-4 and F-15 were built in Japan

[Indifferent]

If I were the Turks, I would immediately start building a 7th generation apparatus !!! Because for them there is no difference what to rivet on the knee.

[Oquzyurd]

If only you could get acquainted with the military-industrial complex of this country, to open your closed eyes. Then think about who is on his knees and who is in modern factories and laboratories.

[Wolf]

Turks and what can they really do?
For an aircraft of the 5th generation, a lot is needed. From the technological level of the state to the next. The last 25-30 years, the Turks made a huge leap of tenoloshka.
But the plane of the 5th generation is the pinnacle of world technology. Starting from one small thing like a glass cover of the cockpit to the EXTRACTOR.
The winder for the 5th generation is still serially supplied only by the USA. Russia is somehow close but it is not in the series.
If, considering that even the United States, when they started to make advanced aircraft engines, they simply took technology around the world, for example, powder ceramic cover for the turbine blades took away from the Japanese, they themselves could not get to the technology.
RR in England makes a good engine for Liners, both tradition and school eat there, but they do not have a 5th generation engine yet.
For 10 years, the Turks will be able to rivet something, but no Turkish aircraft of the 5th generation is fully functional.
BAE will probably help but critical technology is unlikely?
An aircraft of the 5th generation without an engine, like a man without a heart.
But take into account how the Germans, Japanese, Rusia, Franks, the United States raised the technological level and economic strength of Turkey in the last 30 years, everything can be?
If BAE gives the Turks an aircraft of the 5th generation, then it will be 100% against Russia, there is no Israel.

[NF68]

Will the Turks pull it off on their own? This is not to trade watermelons in the market.

[Vlad5307]

hope that the first deliveries to the troops will begin in 2028

The hopes of young men feed ...