Military Review

"First of all, we will build aircraft": UAC unites KB "Ilyushin" and "Tupolev"

134
"First of all, we will build aircraft": UAC unites KB "Ilyushin" and "Tupolev"

Following the amalgamation of the Mil and Kamova helicopter design bureaus, the United Aircraft Corporation decided to reorganize the aircraft industry as well. According to "BUSINESS Online", "Tupolev" and the Kazan aircraft plant will be subordinated to the "Ilyushin" company.


According to the newspaper, in the course of the next reform, the UAC made a decision to merge the Ilyushin Design Bureau, the Aviastar-SP and VASO enterprises controlled by it, on the one hand, and the Tupolev Design Bureau - Kazan Aviation Plant, on the other.

According to a source in the UAC, the decision to merge the Ilyushin, Tupolev design bureaus, as well as aircraft factories in Ulyanovsk, Voronezh and Kazan has already been made and received approval from Anatoly Serdyukov, industrial director of the aircraft building cluster at Rostec. At the same time, according to the source, the leading role in this bundle is given to Ilyushin.

It is assumed that after the merger, a "mega-conglomerate" will be formed, capable of designing and building long-range and strategic missile carriers, transport ships and air tankers, wide-body airliners and special aircraft.

A source in the UAC believes that this reform was started to save the Ilyushin company, which has recently begun to degrade, giving out breakdowns in all programs. At the same time, Tupolev, on the contrary, is gaining momentum. The union decided to compensate for the fall of "Ila".

This will be an unpleasant surprise for the Ministry of Defense: the military are accustomed to long-range and strategic aviation to deal with an understandable performer who, in fact, does nothing but these machines. Now the holes in the Ilov sinkholes will be plugged with the resources of the Tupolev. And I will not comment on the controllability of such a colossus, the speed of passing any decisions.

- said the source.

The publication writes that Ilyushin is currently developing the Il-78M-90A tanker, the Il-112V light military transport vehicle, the Il-276 medium transport aircraft for the Ministry of Defense, and the VTA PAK is planned. Tupolev is developing the Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carrier, the Tu-22M3M long-range missile carrier, and the Tu-330 medium military transport vehicle.

At the same time, Aviastar-SP2 (Ulyanovsk) subordinated to Ilyushin builds Il-76MD-90A transporters. Voronezh VASO does not serially produce anything, but, as they say, in the foreseeable future it will build the wide-body Il-96-400M and Il -112V. The Kazan aircraft plant, a branch of Tupolev, does not serially produce anything: it modernizes the combatant Tu-160 and makes special (for the government special flight unit “Russia” and for the military) Tu-214. Experienced Tu-160M ​​and Tu- 22M3M.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 8 August 2020 13: 44
    47
    It is assumed that after the merger, a "mega-conglomerate" will be formed, capable of designing and building long-range and strategic missile carriers, transport ships and air tankers, wide-body airliners and special aircraft.
    To be honest, I don't expect anything good from this yet, especially after reading that all this is being done under the auspices of Serdyukov ... What did you decide to sell some real estate under this guise?
    And in general, the meaning is not clear, a company that shows at least some signs of life and is successful, to subordinate to a company whose failure, after failure ...
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 8 August 2020 13: 47
      +5
      I agree, I also have ambivalent feelings about this news ... I would not "strangle" Tu Il ...
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 8 August 2020 14: 06
        +5
        Nazarii hi , Tu will not "strangle" Ila, he "grabs" him entirely. ..
        1. Mitroha
          Mitroha 8 August 2020 15: 23
          28
          this reform was started to save the Ilyushina company, which has recently begun to degrade, giving out breakdowns in all programs

          At the same time, according to the source, the leading role in this bundle is given to Ilyushin.

          I alone do not see the logic?
          That is, the government considers it okay to give the general management to a company that has all the stupidity ... pohe ... loves. Some kind of freak show. And again Serdyukov ...
          1. seregatara1969
            seregatara1969 8 August 2020 16: 01
            19
            We have not forgotten Serdyukov about the helicopter school, about the brigade of railway troops in the forests without rails. The railway troops have still not been able to fully recover. The bridge across the Volga was assembled from three military units somehow. Helicopter pilots still teach something. And this is only in one city.
          2. Serg koma
            Serg koma 8 August 2020 16: 24
            25
            Quote: Mitroha
            Panopticon some sort. And again Serdyukov ...

            Quote: Thrifty
            Ila, he '"grabs" it entirely. ..

            I wonder if the brand will be new? "TUPILA" (TUpolevProglottedILa) for example wassat
            1. Dreamboat
              Dreamboat 8 August 2020 16: 43
              10
              Something I do not remember any SUCCESSES at Tupolev. It does nothing except modernization of old aircraft by piece. Not a single new model in 40 (!) Years.
              Here is the conclusion, who saves what. And the opinion of the author for the sake of hype, to throw g ... on the fan (propeller).
              1. svp67
                svp67 8 August 2020 18: 07
                12
                Quote: Dreamboat
                Not a single new model in 40 (!) Years.

                Well, then you Batenka went too far ...
                Tu-204 late 80s of the 20th century

                Tu-214 1996

                Tu-334

                And Tupolev also has a more or less developed project of the Tu-330 cargo plane, which can replace the An-12
                1. Vadivak
                  Vadivak 8 August 2020 22: 58
                  +3
                  [quote = svp67] [quote = Dreamboat] Not a single new model in 40 (!) years. [/ quote]
                  Well, then you Batenka went too far ... [center] [
                  All developments of the USSR
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 9 August 2020 06: 05
                    +6
                    Quote: Vadivak
                    All developments of the USSR

                    And yet they are all under the age of 40
                  2. hrych
                    hrych 9 August 2020 23: 58
                    +3
                    Why a lot of developments? Short-haul Superjet. Medium-haul MS-21. Well, and a long-haul wide-body based on the Il-96-400. Plus transporters and IL-114 type for local airlines. Those. to meet the needs of the entire line by a domestic manufacturer and that's it.
        2. Vicontas
          Vicontas 8 August 2020 19: 55
          0
          Doesn't eat. Say ZATUPIL!
      2. Piramidon
        Piramidon 8 August 2020 14: 14
        +8
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        I agree, I also have ambivalent feelings about this news ... I would not "strangle" Tu Il ...

        It seems to me that now the division into "Il", "Tu", "MiG", "Su" ... and other, previously independent firms is very conditional. No "independence" exists in terms of our wild "market". And if all firms are united into one so-called. holding, that is, the hope that they will all survive. All the same, there is no state support.hi IMHO
        1. snucerist
          snucerist 8 August 2020 14: 59
          26
          This is how to look.
          There is already one similar giant - the Roscosmos corporation. I crushed almost everything under myself.
          What's the point? What can boast of?
          State support is underway. What's in the exhaust? What if the overseas private trader has already done away with this giant corporation?
          Such consolidation is not always effective.
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 8 August 2020 15: 50
            -3
            Quote: snucerist
            This is how to look.
            There is already one similar giant - the Roscosmos corporation. I crushed almost everything under myself.
            What's the point? What can boast of?
            State support is underway. What's in the exhaust? What if the overseas private trader has already done away with this giant corporation?
            Such consolidation is not always effective.

            In your opinion, it is better to let them all "free float" in this wild market, and let anyone survive as they want? Yes, they will die tomorrow without state support under the yoke of the same sanctions. And most likely they will be quickly "privatized" by cunning guys with offshore wallets and supported by Western "partners"
            1. snucerist
              snucerist 8 August 2020 16: 22
              44
              In my opinion, it is necessary, first of all, to reconsider the approach to the appointment of personnel to leading positions in strategic areas. So that an industry or a corporation is led by a person who has at least a specialized higher education and knows at least the basics of production, which he commands. Knowing at least the basics of engineering, specialized technologies, workshop capabilities. He understands the flight of design ideas and is able to distinguish this thought from empty projection.
              How can you demand something from Rogozin, a person who has no special education? What can be demanded from a journalist-philologist?
              What can be demanded from his son, who once headed Ilyushin? An economist by training?
              What can you demand from Sharipov, now the general director of Tupolev PJSC? Another legal economist?
              And about the priority of organizational skills is not necessary. What this priority is worth is clearly seen in the "successes" of Roscosmos.
              Specialized institutes, laboratories and production facilities should be pulled by people who are devoted to their work, capable of doing it, working by vocation. And not to be appointed based on the degree of kinship to one of the authorities.
              In my opinion, it is necessary to put things in order in the sphere of remuneration of workers. It cannot be a normal situation when people who create high-tech unique products with their own minds and hands receive fewer "effective managers" of Rosneft and Gazprom. Which, by the way, has nothing to brag about lately, there is failure after failure.
              Here's what needs to be done in the first place in my opinion.
              But, alas, it is beyond my power to do this.
              1. Stas Sv
                Stas Sv 8 August 2020 16: 50
                10
                I agree 100%! But how can this idea be conveyed to the top? That's another task ...
            2. ycuce234-san
              ycuce234-san 8 August 2020 23: 48
              +2
              it is better to let them all "float freely" in this wild market


              You can give for each independently earned private ruble a state ruble. Or, even better, to carry out a refund of part of the earned and withheld taxes from projects not related to the state. Then help will be provided and inter-corporate competition will continue and companies will learn to work in the highly competitive world market and there will be a desire to improve equipment.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 8 August 2020 16: 19
            -1
            Quote: snucerist
            What if the overseas private trader has already done away with this giant corporation?


            This is not a private trader at all. This is a private contractor (not the first in the history of American space, it is simply personified, unlike companies and corporations) to which the most serious military-industrial complex resources have been transferred, from technical documentation and patents to the most serious specialists in the field of space
            1. snucerist
              snucerist 8 August 2020 17: 05
              14
              Yah???
              Do you know exactly how and with what money Musk founded Space Exploration Technologies Corporation? So do not torment us, share your information! This is so interesting!
              Let us know the facts, which "the most serious resources of the military-industrial complex, from technical documentation and patents to the most serious specialists in the field of space" were provided to Musk? When? By whom? Can you attach a list? What was passed on to Musk? The idea of ​​a reusable LV stage? Propulsion landing? Merlin and Raptor design and alloys? Or the idea of ​​QC Dragon?
              Maybe NASA took Musk under its wing? Floods him with work and money? Nothing that NASA favorites are ULA and Blue Origin? Is it okay that the agency's main money is now being invested in Vulcan and New Glenn? Is it okay that NASA slows down Musk in every possible way, puts a spoke in his wheels, trying to prevent the monopolization of space? In particular, certification is extremely delayed, which is why the second Dragon flew later than the stated date?
              Maybe the Pentagon is providing all kinds of patronage to Musk? We are looking at what contracts the Pentagon signed yesterday for the next 5 years.
              60% of the financial investments come from United Launch Alliance. Boeing and Lockheed Martin
              in chocolate. And what about Mask? Only 40% from the military department. Wouldn't give even that, but where to go? If Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy already exist, are they already flying and are already certified?
              All your reasoning is based on one not very clever stuff, they say, Musk is not a private owner, his state sponsors. As you can see, it doesn't sponsor much.
              Yes, Musk receives orders from the Pentagon as well. Why not? Should he provide a service? Musk has seized control of the entire commercial cargo market and is heading for passenger transportation. He fulfills the orders of many companies. What, are they all sponsoring him? No, they pay for the service rendered. This is roughly how the United States "sponsored" Roscosmos by buying passenger seats on the Soyuz.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 8 August 2020 17: 09
                -11 qualifying.
                Quote: snucerist
                Do you know exactly how and with what money Musk founded Space Exploration Technologies Corporation?


                You don't know for sure ... But miracles do not happen by the way ...

                All your reasoning is based on one not very clever stuff, they say, Musk is not a private owner, his state sponsors.


                Rather inconvenient information on the merits ...
                Yes, about the battery and Teslamobile, I still heard a lot about how it is in reality ...
                That's all, I do not intend to discuss fairy tales.
                1. snucerist
                  snucerist 8 August 2020 17: 59
                  11
                  Yes, that's understandable. When there are no other counterarguments, only one remains - "I do not intend to discuss."
                  Your right.
                  But finally, about miracles ...
                  The fact of the matter is that Musk does not show miracles, but real results.
                  The same idea of ​​reusable steps was discussed in the first half of the last century. And then they talked about it a lot. In different countries.
                  And Musk did it. Not with the language, but with the mind and hands of the team he created.
                  Miracle?
                  No, the result of real work.
                  1. Filxnumx
                    Filxnumx 8 August 2020 20: 29
                    -15 qualifying.
                    No, the result of real work.

                    true true! Just do not forget to put a candle under the icon of the Holy Mask at night and pray more earnestly. And forehead, forehead on the floor do not fail.
                  2. Alf
                    Alf 8 August 2020 21: 02
                    -3
                    Quote: snucerist
                    The same idea of ​​reusable steps was discussed in the first half of the last century. And then they talked about it a lot. In different countries.

                    But in different countries they said a lot, but smart economists found and considered that reusable steps are not much cheaper than disposable ones, and given the fact that due to reusability, the output and, accordingly, the production order falls and becomes more expensive, then reusability not always beneficial.
        2. alexmach
          alexmach 8 August 2020 16: 56
          +2
          I agree. Only we do not need state support, but orders to load production and design bureaus. And they seem to be. We need transports of all classes and tankers, and long-range and strategic bombers.
        3. Vadivak
          Vadivak 8 August 2020 22: 59
          +4
          Quote: Piramidon
          And if all firms are united into one so-called. holding, that is, the hope that they will all survive. All the same, there is no state support.

          Or everyone will die with this very support
      3. kulinar
        kulinar 8 August 2020 19: 23
        12
        Combining various schools of aircraft engineering, rocketry, and tank building into one office is harmful to development and competition. Pi.n.d.s. Lockheed Martin and Boeing do not seek to unite.
      4. Tusv
        Tusv 8 August 2020 19: 49
        +2
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Wouldn't "strangle" Tu IL ...

        Vashcheto UAC has been driving for 1.5 years. Il, Su. Mig., Beroev - now the line of the United Aircraft Building Company. Competitive design bureaus have sunk into oblivion. The bourgeoisie has the same thing. Marine Lockheed ate the creator of the F-16 and did not choke. Now he takes orders from Boeing for axes and theirs for missiles - Raytheon. Good or bad? I do not know. I am RLSnik, give me a good radar
      5. Vadivak
        Vadivak 8 August 2020 22: 56
        +3
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        I agree, I also have ambivalent feelings about this news ... I would not "strangle" Tu Il ..

        ... read carefully
        The Kazan aircraft plant - the Tupolev branch does not serially produce anything:
        And I think it will not release anything. The trend in modernizing the Soviet legacy
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 August 2020 13: 49
      +7
      Quote: svp67
      And in general, the meaning is not clear, a company that shows at least some signs of life and is successful, to subordinate to a company whose failure, after failure ...


      Which of them do you think has signs of life? PAK YES not to offer, of course ..... It's just that they decided to restore the Tu-160 series. In fact, life is barely glimmering in both. Tupolev builds one Tu-214 per year and a half, Ilyushin builds 1 Il-76 per year and a half. Not this way?
      1. svp67
        svp67 8 August 2020 13: 51
        +4
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Which of them do you think has signs of life?

        Well, judging by the takeoff of the modernized Tu-22 and Tu-160, and in a fairly short time, then the Tupolev's life is more "flickering"
        1. bayard
          bayard 8 August 2020 16: 28
          23
          Quote: svp67
          Well, judging by the takeoff of the modernized Tu-22 and Tu-160, and in a fairly short time, then the Tupolev's life is more "flickering"

          In fact, Tupolev has only modernization, there are very big problems with the construction of new aircraft - the center section is still learning how to cook, which year, problems with new engines for the Tu-160.
          The first batch of their 5 engines NK-32M was turned off for revision and no positive rumors after that.
          There are no engines for the Tu-22M3M. An attempt to integrate the NK-32 into the existing glider has not yet been crowned with success, and the number of NK-25 is limited.
          Ilyushin has a bunch of projects at work and no success in any direction.
          IL-112 - hovered in obscurity. Either redesigning from scratch, or trying to bring dry weight to the desired condition.
          Il-114 - this one has already flown and was even produced in small quantities, but to revive the project ... it still does not work.
          It is better not to remember the Il-276 - no one started it.
          The Il-76MD90A cannot be put into production for more than a decade.
          Il-96 - two buildings are being assembled in Voronezh, everything is very leisurely, once again they do not mention it, so as not to answer uncomfortable questions.
          THE SOVIET STAFF IS ENDED.
          And the victims of the exam can only design the IL-112 of the first iteration with an overweight by THREE tons.
          The traders in power in science, personnel, fixed assets did not invest money ... and now it does not help much - people are over.
          Those people who knew how to design and build airplanes.
          And the hucksters - like in a bazaar, got shot in the head - "I want to buy", and immediately ordered a bunch of projects in bulk. And there is no one to work.
          Because modern education does not excite the engineering thought of young people, it does not provide real knowledge in schools, the value scale in society is inverted and what was previously prestigious, interesting, promising, has become uninteresting to most of the youth. And even having received an engineering education, many people try not to go to production and design bureaus - it is poor and unpretentious.
          And you need your eyes to burn, your hands itch ... and so that there is a perspective.
          But this requires a completely different state.
          1. Orange bigg
            Orange bigg 8 August 2020 17: 30
            -1
            IL-112 - hovered in obscurity. Either redesigning from scratch, or trying to bring dry weight to the desired condition.


            Work on the IL-112V is underway.
            At the VASO plant, the first flight copy of the Il-112V in the color of the Russian Aerospace Forces was rolled out. The picture was posted on the AviaNews Telegram channel, noting the unusual appearance of the Voronezh light transport aircraft.


            On Wednesday, August 5, the press service of VASO explained that there is nothing unusual about the color: it is typical for military transport aircraft.

            - An aircraft undergoing flight tests must necessarily have a registration number, which was assigned to the Il-112V as experimental air aviation. The aircraft is a prototype flight model and is intended exclusively for flight tests, the airline said.

            The shop submissions stage will be completed in the near future. After that, the aircraft will proceed to airfield ground tests, and then to the stage of preliminary flight tests.

            https://m.riavrn.ru/news/voronezhskiy-aviazavod-vykatil-pervyy-letnyy-ekzemplyar-il-112v/

            Il-114 - this one has already flown and was even produced in small quantities, but to revive the project ... it still does not work.

            The first flight of the Il-114-300 built from scratch will take place in September 2020.

            The Il-76MD90A cannot be put into production for more than a decade.

            IL-76MD-90A is produced serially.
            1. bayard
              bayard 9 August 2020 12: 36
              +5
              Quote: OrangeBigg
              Work on the IL-112V is underway.

              Well that's clear. And the fact that they painted and rolled out is also clear.
              But this is the SAME overweight board, which was slightly poked to make it easier. It falls short of the standard. And how long they will torture him, only Ahura-Mazda knows. There is no plane, and it won't be soon. And "work" can be done for decades - "Angara" as an example. If there is no responsibility.
              Quote: OrangeBigg
              The first flight of the Il-114-300 built from scratch will take place in September 2020.

              So the first flight of the Il-112 has already taken place. He's the only one. This first flight will ONLY BEGIN testing of the new version of the IL-114. And this song will be long - like the song about the king, the court, the stake and the bast.
              Quote: OrangeBigg
              IL-76MD-90A is produced serially.

              And produced a lot?
              SERIAL?
              This quantity and pace is more like the production of a pilot batch.
              How many boards are on the stocks now?
              This year they promised to hand over 8 boards.
              Excluding those overdue for the last year.
              FOR RENT ?!
              And in a couple of years they promised to bring the annual production up to 18 Il-76MD90A per year.
              Do you think they will keep their word?
              So I have doubts - no one keeps his word.
              And he is not responsible for words.
              And for the assigned task.
              The minister does not answer.
              The President does not answer.
              But "the work is in progress."
              The budget is being mastered.
          2. frolov andrey
            frolov andrey 8 August 2020 19: 24
            +5
            There is an opinion and arguments (I read an article with facts and data) that there are people, but they consider and design for foreign companies (Boeing, for example), because they make orders for which they pay a pleasant reward for their work. And what kind of letters should they work? They do it right - because the example about "putting" on the result and responsibility is given to us by state men every day how to master the budget!)))
      2. K-612-O
        K-612-O 8 August 2020 15: 06
        +1
        Not so, now there are 5-6 transport workers a year, with the full introduction of an automated assembly complex on 10-12 76ths a year at Aviastar.
        Well, VASO is not stupidly loaded with the IL-96, it was necessary to order, and not buy used trash on lease.
        Although how the aviation industry was reformed in the 90s, this is a long conversation
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 8 August 2020 15: 08
          +6
          Quote: K-612-O
          The IL-96 had to be ordered, not used trash on lease to buy.


          This is all very clear ... Voros is different, why didn’t they order refuellers based on the Il-96 for the Air Force?
          1. K-612-O
            K-612-O 8 August 2020 15: 12
            +3
            Maintenance, operation, and flight personnel training have been debugged for 78. Plus there is no need for intercontinental refueling.
            The army is a sooooo conservative structure request
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 8 August 2020 16: 23
              +2
              Why I asked the question. 223 and 224 LO, probably the same military pilots or retirees in the majority fly. this time.
              Second, the need for simply new transport aircraft is great. So it was possible to give an order for transport - IL-76 and tankers and AWACS aircraft - IL-96. As a result, one plant is overloaded with orders, while the other does not. Is this a highly correct approach?
    3. Lebed
      Lebed 8 August 2020 13: 58
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      To be honest, I don't expect anything good from this yet, especially after reading that all this is being done under the auspices of Serdyukov ... What did you decide to sell some real estate under this guise?

      The descendants of the current "elite" are growing up. Somewhere they need to be attached. Do not force them, in fact, to produce something.
      1. sav
        sav 8 August 2020 14: 16
        +2
        Well, Serdyukov was cunning, he came up with a "scheme", and you took it and revealed the cards laughing
    4. Skifotavr
      Skifotavr 8 August 2020 14: 02
      -9
      The Emirates have already bought half of the shares of the KB holding "Russian Helicopters" https://vpk.name/news/347599_emiraty_kupili_polovinu_akcii_kb_holdinga_vertolety_rossii.html Now they will unite everyone with everyone and sell them with giblets.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 8 August 2020 14: 58
        +5
        you would at least read that you are posting first ... not the holding's KB, but one of the KB. which deals with a separate topic in general ...
        VR-Technologies develops new generation drones, and is also the developer of the VRT500 helicopter with a coaxial rotor system and an easily convertible cockpit, which allows VRT500 to operate in 8 different configurations, including corporate and business transportation. In addition, the company is a pioneer in urban air mobility - development and supply of complex solutions for integrating vertical take-off and landing urban air transport into a single transport system of smart cities. there is fierce competition in this segment and a huge number of developers. without long-term investments, they will simply disappear. this is a commercial product and still only promising.
        1. K-612-O
          K-612-O 8 August 2020 15: 09
          +4
          You are easier, you have broken the world for a friend laughing hi
        2. Skifotavr
          Skifotavr 11 August 2020 22: 42
          0
          I admit, there I did not understand what it was about. Thanks for the clarification. But the idea of ​​uniting KB is still very dubious in my opinion. Although what remains of those design bureaus, I do not know. Maybe it's for the best.
    5. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 8 August 2020 14: 08
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      the meaning is not clear

      I am afraid that the meaning of this "unification", and indeed of the whole "activity" of the unifier, is just clear.
      It is not clear - who launched it into this "vegetable garden"?
      1. Alf
        Alf 8 August 2020 15: 33
        +4
        Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
        It is not clear - who launched it into this "vegetable garden"?

        The one who does not give up his own.
    6. smart ass
      smart ass 8 August 2020 14: 09
      +3
      What are you worried about Anatoly Serdyukov will settle everything))))
    7. sav
      sav 8 August 2020 14: 14
      13
      Quote: svp67
      the meaning is not clear at all

      Reminds safe with .... (does not skip the word) - there is movement, but no results.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 8 August 2020 15: 04
        +7
        What have both of these companies given out over the 20 years of "independent" Russia? NOTHING, except upgrades (and in many respects questionable). Likewise, the so-called "united" corporation will not give ANYTHING ... Amen to the Russian military-industrial complex - only cartoons remained and the wunderwaffe of the type "petrel", "Poseidon", "hypersound" and so on - before it was called - "weapon NO ")", and now - "NP weapon (" for PR ") ...
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 8 August 2020 19: 55
          -3
          Quote: Snail N9
          Amen to the Russian military-industrial complex - only cartoons remained and the wunderwaffe of the type "petrel", "Poseidon", "hypersound" and so on, before it was called "NI weapon (" for fear ")", and now - "NP weapon (" for PR " ) ...

          Oha, and we were just now broadcasting that the "petrel" exploded in Nenoksa ... They lie, gentlemen, the liberals, sir?
    8. iouris
      iouris 8 August 2020 15: 39
      -1
      Quote: svp67
      the meaning is not clear, to subordinate a company that shows at least some signs of life and is successful to a company that has a failure, after failure ...

      The meaning is clear: the Il-branded aircraft have not yet been taken out of service and are under "designer's supervision." The patient felt better: he stopped breathing.
    9. mat-vey
      mat-vey 8 August 2020 15: 39
      0
      Quote: svp67
      And in general, the meaning is not clear, a company that shows at least some signs of life and is successful, to subordinate to a company whose failure, after failure ...

      Maybe relatives or who of your friends need to be supported?
    10. da Vinci
      da Vinci 8 August 2020 17: 45
      +2
      Will sMerdyukov lead the government !!!
      Well, here's how to understand: sMerdyukov, Chubais, etc. sit so firmly in warm places that no one can ever dump them. What power they have! recourse
    11. vVvAD
      vVvAD 8 August 2020 18: 02
      -7
      Perhaps Serdyukov was awarded and not by pull.
      He coped with dismantling the old system. Technical candidates who take unpopular measures are always cursed. But for me, the actions of Serdyukov, followed by the appointment of Shoigu and the reformation from scratch are links in the same chain. They did it quickly - they cut it live sad
      But the dust in everyone's eyes was notable - our potential still has sparks in their eyes. bully
      And in general, the meaning is not clear, a company that shows at least some signs of life and is successful, to subordinate to a company whose failure, after failure ...

      Hmm, well, when the Ka and Mi merged, they said the same thing: that KB Mil would take over KB Kamov.
      I think it will be modeled on the merger of Su with MiG and Mi with Ka: as part of a higher structure, there will be no subordination as such. There will be the introduction of the applicable Tu standards and technologies in the Ilyushin Design Bureau - they need revitalization. They came to the conclusion that the competition and the maintenance of several different standards in the person of design bureaus and factories affiliated with them, similar to the American model, is expensive and not very effective. The Americans are also reforming their military-industrial complex, forcing the local giants to cooperate within the announced tenders - but they have their own scheme.
      The factories will produce products for the widest possible range, and design bureaus will work according to uniform standards and jointly develop common technologies, uniting financial flows, and, saving on avoiding unnecessary duplication, where possible, without losing their own specializations and know-how, which are already will work independently.
      1. dsaf
        dsaf 8 August 2020 18: 30
        +3
        This is called "compression".
        Sad ...
      2. businessv
        businessv 8 August 2020 22: 43
        +3
        Quote: vVvAD
        KB work according to common standards and jointly develop common technologies, uniting financial flows, and, saving on avoiding unnecessary duplication, where possible

        They forgot to write that "the control apparatus will grow to incredible values, which will devour all the saved profits, and in addition to this, this very apparatus of effective blowjobs will cut half of the funds allocated to the design bureaus and factories,"
    12. The comment was deleted.
    13. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 8 August 2020 20: 52
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      To be honest, I don't expect anything good from this yet,

      A source in the UAC believes that this reform was started to save the Ilyushin company, which has recently begun to degrade, giving out breakdowns in all programs

      The railways are "cut into separate components, increasing the staff of managers.
      Here you decided to merge KB to disperse the last professionals who know how to do and ask awkward questions?
      Wouldn't it be better to restore industry-specific vocational education, provide design bureaus and specialized factories with orders and credits to fulfill ?!
    14. halpat
      halpat 8 August 2020 21: 47
      -1
      Evgenia Vasilieva will be appointed as the head of the combined enterprise, I suppose?
      1. dSK
        dSK 9 August 2020 02: 27
        +1
        Quote: Halpat
        will appoint Evgenia Vasiliev, I suppose?

        Most likely Rogozin's son. His grandfather "privatized" the IL corporation. And dad will "help" steer.
    15. PSih2097
      PSih2097 9 August 2020 02: 19
      0
      Quote: svp67
      And in general, the meaning is not clear, a company that shows at least some signs of life and is successful, to subordinate to a company whose failure, after failure ...

      the main thing is that it would not turn out the way it was during the destruction of the Polikarpov Design Bureau by Yakovlev ...
    16. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 9 August 2020 04: 15
      0
      Quote: svp67
      especially after reading that all this is being done under the auspices of Serdyukov

      This surname is capable of causing persistent allergies in anyone who was involved in the army, now in the army, or just who cares about the army.

      If you hear "Serdyukov" - even the brain does not need to be turned on - immediately rejection and negativity, on instincts. I don’t understand - well, they otmazyvali, well, their own skin, but would send the manager to some "Serdyukovbank" ... To hell again in the army? To the devil again to let the destroyer into the army? Forgot how he is the Hero of Russia, the head of Ryazan, swearing at his subordinates? If Serdyukov says that water is liquid, I will say that it is solid and I will be right. On instincts, without thinking.

      If Serdyukov something unites with something - I, without thinking what and with what, will say that this is sabotage.
  2. Maki maki
    Maki maki 8 August 2020 13: 46
    +9
    This is called "From a sore head to a healthy one." A dubious idea. But the management staff will definitely be inflated.
  3. Narcologist
    Narcologist 8 August 2020 13: 46
    -15 qualifying.
    I think the Antonovites from Ukraine also work there hi It is necessary to unite And these squabbles to knock Russia out of the world's leading aircraft manufacturers .. We work men!
    This is the only way to survive and to create something.
    1. Igoresha
      Igoresha 8 August 2020 19: 02
      +2
      Quote: Narkolog
      knock Russia out of the world's leading aircraft manufacturers

      Is this a humor joke?
  4. Vasya17
    Vasya17 8 August 2020 13: 50
    +1
    there is less and less money, and it is necessary to "saw" the budget - villas in Italy will not buy themselves, so they figure out how to fill personal pockets for reorganization at the expense of the state
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 9 August 2020 04: 19
      0
      Quote: Vasya17
      there is less and less money, and it is necessary to "saw" the budget - villas in Italy will not buy themselves, so they figure out how to fill personal pockets for reorganization at the expense of the state

      Loot, unscrewed for "Mistral", for "cost optimization", for "outsourcing" has already ended, probably. Something needs to be "reformed" again ...
  5. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 8 August 2020 13: 51
    +6
    The number of likes for an article shows the real attitude of people to this news. negative
  6. dauria
    dauria 8 August 2020 13: 53
    +9
    Voronezh VASO does not serially produce anything

    Kazan aircraft plant - Tupolev branch does not serially produce anything


    Hmm .. There is no Tashkent, "Sokol" in Nizhny Novgorod also "does not produce anything serially".
    Kiev-based Antonov became a carrier disguised as a manufacturer. There was a country ... of Brezhnev's "stagnation".
  7. evgen1221
    evgen1221 8 August 2020 13: 57
    0
    It remains only not to donate to foreigners for management, how it happened with the mermaid
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 9 August 2020 04: 28
      +1
      Quote: evgen1221
      It remains only not to donate to foreigners for management, how it happened with the mermaid

      And who is minus? Rusal was not presented, was it? Was in Samara, on a business trip - ask any worker at the plant - "Who is the owner of the plant?" And any hard worker will say, "Americans."

      With the Kurgan plant at the GDP, with a formidable shout, it turned out to return everything back, otherwise they would now be sitting without armor steel. And then somehow I missed the GDP. Well, there is not enough manual control over the GDP for the whole country - it would have to be removed - so that each region would give a shout to each region ...
      1. Alf
        Alf 9 August 2020 21: 10
        0
        Quote: Zoldat_A
        Well, there is not enough manual GDP control for the whole country

        And WHO has built such a vertical of power ... request
  8. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 8 August 2020 14: 02
    +3
    The beds will be rearranged again ...
  9. Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver 8 August 2020 14: 04
    -3
    was approved by Anatoly Serdyukov

    Surrealism
    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 9 August 2020 02: 55
      +2
      Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
      Surrealism

  10. Thrifty
    Thrifty 8 August 2020 14: 04
    0
    And what then is it all together, and aviation and helicopter engineering cannot be combined into one company? A mess, so global! Also with offshore production facilities, shove everything under one heap, even if at one shipyard they immediately make tugs, nuclear submarines, and commercial ships? You can go even further - all equipment for the army - wheeled and tracked, should also be made by one mega-holding, from for its gigantic size and staff, unable to really create and start production of exactly the necessary equipment, therefore, imposing on the army that which will be able to "give birth" in its gigantic-bloated heads, "handled" !!!
    1. MMX
      MMX 9 August 2020 11: 11
      -1
      Quote: Thrifty
      And what then is it all together, and aviation and helicopter engineering cannot be combined into one company? A mess, so global! Also with offshore production facilities, shove everything under one heap, even if at one shipyard they immediately make tugs, nuclear submarines, and commercial ships? You can go even further - all equipment for the army - wheeled and tracked, should also be made by one mega-holding, from for its gigantic size and staff, unable to really create and start production of exactly the necessary equipment, therefore, imposing on the army that which will be able to "give birth" in its gigantic-bloated heads, "handled" !!!


      This association has an administrative mechanism. However, if we take global market trends, then in all industries large ones absorb small ones, creating large industrial business empires. Therefore, in itself, there is nothing to worry about. This happens all over the world in all industries.
      1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 9 August 2020 15: 41
        0
        Quote: MMX
        in all industries, large ones absorb small ones, creating large industrial business empires. Therefore, in itself there is nothing to worry about.

        The US military budget is 10 times ours. However, our Armed Forces do not surpass them qualitatively and quantitatively. This is due precisely to different approaches to the construction of the sun. Do we want to adopt their approach and be 10 times weaker? Then let's do as monkeys as they do
  11. rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 8 August 2020 14: 12
    +1
    Once the Stooltkin took them, a scribe to them, unless then there is some "Shoigu" who will pull them out of the experience by the ears, well, the Stooltkin will again, for the sake of appearance, steam on a bunk and secretly receive another medal from the hands of the guarantor
  12. Galim_66
    Galim_66 8 August 2020 14: 18
    +6
    Regarding the failure of everything and the entire Ilyushin design bureau can be explained by the fact that they took on projects that were too heavy for one design bureau. They have just mastered the Il-76MD-90A, they are also developing the Il-112V Il-276, Il-114-300 and Il-96-400 M. While Tupolev only produces Tu-204 pieces and modernizes long-range bombers and missile carriers ... So it's not at all clear why this Tupolev Design Bureau is supposedly on the rise.
    By the way, Aviastar and VASO also produce parts of the SSJ-100 aircraft, and at the same factories they will make components for the MS-21.
    In my opinion, it is so necessary to create a national center for aircraft and helicopter engineering, including developers and manufacturers of all components and assemblies for the industry.
  13. Free wind
    Free wind 8 August 2020 14: 23
    +6
    Il, he is building something, he is in stagnation, Tu, he is not building anything, he only promises and starts development, he is on the rise. I wonder what planet I live on.
  14. Eug
    Eug 8 August 2020 14: 24
    +4
    I expected to see a competition for Il-276 and Tu-330 projects ... As for me, the final project should have combined the merits of both ...
    1. Mikhail m
      Mikhail m 8 August 2020 19: 42
      +3
      Cross a hedgehog and a snake to create barbed wire.
  15. askort154
    askort154 8 August 2020 14: 39
    +6
    According to a source in the UAC, the decision to merge the Ilyushin and Tupolev design bureaus, as well as aircraft factories in Ulyanovsk, Voronezh and Kazan
    has already been adopted and approved by Anatoly Serdyukov, industrial director of the aircraft building cluster at Rostec.


    Tell me who runs the enterprise, and I will tell you what wakes up with this enterprise. The last time I heard was Anatoly Serdyukov, when he invited Pugacheva to a New Year's corporate party for 40 million rubles. Then the Internet "exploded", whether the concert took place, I don't know. And "Russian Helicopters" are called "the budget ripper."
    And what is the position: "industrial director of the aircraft building cluster at Rostec"
    Ostap Bender is tossing and turning with envy in his grave.
    1. Vlad.by
      Vlad.by 8 August 2020 15: 07
      -4
      Write "wakes up" and "proclaimed" and I will tell you who writes KAMMIntarii))
      There are many prophets in Russia,
      few who do
      1. askort154
        askort154 8 August 2020 15: 22
        +1
        Vlad.by...Write "wakes up" and "proclaimed"

        Right! I repent! From the first grade I confuse E and I. crying hi
  16. Operator
    Operator 8 August 2020 14: 48
    -6
    That the Tupolev Design Bureau (to keep the pants on paper that nobody needs PAK YES), that the Ilyushin Design Bureau (which sprinkles a similar PTS "Ermak" with the carrying capacity of the existing AN-124) - two pair of boots.

    The helm of the Sukhoi Design Bureau with the multipurpose Su-57 and the Yakovlev Design Bureau with the MS-21 and cargo modifications based on it.
  17. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 8 August 2020 14: 48
    +6
    It is necessary to ask those who work at Tupolev and Ilyushin. What will this give them. If, roughly speaking, there are two managers for one turner, then of course they will not do anything. Honestly, they got these managers of a wide profile. They only think to cut the workaholic and not themselves beloved.
    be 200 turners and one manager. Then what kind of manager he is if he cannot manage, it is necessary to drive such a broom. Spinogryzy !!! Because of this, the USSR collapsed. Although the source of information is still that news resource. Maybe we shake the air in vain. fool
    1. The Little Humpbacked Horse
      The Little Humpbacked Horse 8 August 2020 15: 04
      +7
      Quote: tralflot1832
      It is necessary to ask those who work at Tupolev and Ilyushin, what will it give them. If, roughly speaking, there are two managers for one turner, then of course they will not give anything

      Here is a link to the article, read the comments about the Kazan aircraft plant
      https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/477021#comment8019988
      Anonymously
      6.08.2020 08:32
      it is necessary to reorganize the plant to begin with. Compare the telephone directory 2009 and 2020 at the factory. your hair will stand on end. incomprehensible departments and positions have been created. supply, accounting more than a thousand people and this is in the age of technology and the computer. incomprehensible service of the technical director, which is artificially created. before all these questions were on the chief engineer and his swing.
      Anonymously
      6.08.2020 09:09
      So you have to attach your relatives and friends somewhere! She worked for KAPO in the early 2000s, the accounting department was then normal in number, but young inexperienced girls even then began to appear.
      Anonymously
      6.08.2020 11:14
      2000 workers and 2000 managers. Some directors, bosses ... At the same time, the salaries of the latter are marked with three signs. And the workers are cutting everything off. And with this they write out bonuses ..
      Anonymously
      6.08.2020 12:58
      I completely agree with the supply. Artificially created posts! Heads of departments, deputy heads of departments! There are 15 people in these departments! They receive a salary with 5 zeros, but ordinary employees do not receive even 30 thousand! At the same time, the efficiency of these managers is 0! Endless meetings with or without.
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 8 August 2020 16: 08
        +2
        Yes, it is all over the country, especially in state corporations
      2. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 8 August 2020 16: 55
        +2
        I completely agree with you. The manager can be passive with this, you can still find a common language, he understands that without lower-level people he is no one and nothing. He does not get into production sometimes even helps. But active, this is something. When everything starts to fall apart. look for the extreme, but not him. But the coolest thing is if there are two or more of them. Here you can have fun, but not for a long time. They will be fired anyway.
  18. Patriot228
    Patriot228 8 August 2020 14: 54
    +5
    After the Rogozin clique, Il was no longer able to recover, now the managers who had killed Il are creeping into related industries, we will wait for new ditched enterprises.
  19. Lontus
    Lontus 8 August 2020 15: 01
    +9
    The Russian authorities are steadily pursuing a plan to degrade the aviation (and other high-tech industry) in Russia by eliminating internal competition.
    Bureaucratic monsters will not be able to support efficient production and create new breakthrough types of products within a reasonable time.
  20. Pavel57
    Pavel57 8 August 2020 15: 07
    +5
    The squares around the Airport-Dynamo are very much requested for building.
  21. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 8 August 2020 15: 58
    +2
    the decision to merge design bureaus "Ilyushin", "Tupolev", as well as aircraft factories in Ulyanovsk, Voronezh and Kazan has already been made and received the approval of Anatoly Serdyukov

    "I have bermut in my heart and bermut in my soul" © ...
    Recently Su and Mig played the same games. How did it end? Nothing good ...
  22. businessv
    businessv 8 August 2020 16: 07
    +1
    Following the merger of the Mil and Kamov helicopter design bureaus, the United Aircraft Corporation decided to reorganize the aircraft industry as well.
    Apparently, Mr. Shoigu needs to prepare to take over the management of the UAC. After the next Serdyukov reorganization, little of the UAC will remain in working order. How can such a thieving idiot be put in leadership positions at all ?!
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 8 August 2020 19: 34
      +7
      As long as there are "gentlemen" in the country, everything will be destroyed.
    2. Alf
      Alf 8 August 2020 20: 53
      +3
      Quote: businessv
      How such a thieving idiot @ ka

      The smart ones are not needed, the faithful are needed.
  23. Klingon
    Klingon 8 August 2020 17: 01
    +4
    Quote: Serg Koma
    Quote: Mitroha
    Panopticon some sort. And again Serdyukov ...

    Quote: Thrifty
    Ila, he '"grabs" it entirely. ..

    I wonder if the brand will be new? "TUPILA" (TUpolevProglottedILa) for example wassat

    ha-ha-hah that's it to the point! you can't even imagine a better abbreviation! But mu ... they like to unite everything, just like Sharikov, well, where do such managers come from? D'Effective managers damn it, right now they unite! They are purposefully destroying everything in the country.
  24. senima56
    senima56 8 August 2020 17: 01
    +4
    What for "United"(??? !!!) aircraft corporation, decided something else "combine"??? !!! fool If they unite, then why do we need the UAC itself? How is the "unification" of the "united" or what ?! lol Marasmus.... hi
  25. Boratsagdiev
    Boratsagdiev 8 August 2020 17: 23
    -4
    A source in the UAC believes that this reform was started to save the Ilyushin firm

    maybe it's easier and just trying to save (keep) what is available (the aviation industry)?
    1. Alf
      Alf 8 August 2020 20: 55
      +1
      Quote: BoratSagdiev
      A source in the UAC believes that this reform was started to save the Ilyushin firm

      maybe it's easier and just trying to save (keep) what is available (the aviation industry)?

      The results of all the "modernizations", "mergers", "optimizations", "reforms" over 20 years are not known?
      1. Boratsagdiev
        Boratsagdiev 11 August 2020 10: 34
        0
        I know that, that's why I am writing that something else is happening under the cover of good intentions and loud speeches.
        "Minushers" along the way are also unaware.
        Quote: Aviator_
        Marshal Taburetkin has already rescued a domestic manufacturer - the purchase of Italian armored personnel carriers that could not ride in the snow.

        "Taburetkin" - here "the tenth thing", there is "optimization" and preservation.
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 8 August 2020 22: 41
      +1
      Marshal Taburetkin has already rescued a domestic manufacturer - the purchase of Italian armored personnel carriers that could not ride in the snow.
  26. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 8 August 2020 17: 39
    +7
    It is also necessary to unite Tupolyushin with Milekamov, and then both of them with the stool factory, and give the leading role to the latter. crying
    This strategist will do more ... He is just warming up. sad
  27. NordUral
    NordUral 8 August 2020 18: 52
    +4
    All "associations" these is the beginning of destruction.
    1. c2020
      c2020 8 August 2020 19: 06
      +5
      The facts of the destruction of Russian aircraft and high treason are obvious. The case is up to a military tribunal.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 8 August 2020 19: 31
        +3
        I agree, Anton! These are state criminals.
      2. Alf
        Alf 8 August 2020 20: 56
        +3
        Quote: c2020
        The facts of the destruction of Russian aircraft and high treason are obvious. The case is up to a military tribunal.

        Whom to tribunal? All around them ...
  28. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 8 August 2020 19: 57
    +1
    Quote: snucerist
    In my opinion, it is necessary, first of all, to reconsider the approach to the appointment of personnel to leading positions in strategic areas. So that an industry or a corporation is led by a person who has at least a specialized higher education and knows at least the basics of production, which he commands. Knowing at least the basics of engineering, specialized technologies, workshop capabilities. He understands the flight of design ideas and is able to distinguish this thought from empty projection.
    How can you demand something from Rogozin, a person who has no special education? What can be demanded from a journalist-philologist?
    What can be demanded from his son, who once headed Ilyushin? An economist by training?
    What can you demand from Sharipov, now the general director of Tupolev PJSC? Another legal economist?
    And about the priority of organizational skills is not necessary. What this priority is worth is clearly seen in the "successes" of Roscosmos.
    Specialized institutes, laboratories and production facilities should be pulled by people who are devoted to their work, capable of doing it, working by vocation. And not to be appointed based on the degree of kinship to one of the authorities.
    In my opinion, it is necessary to put things in order in the sphere of remuneration of workers. It cannot be a normal situation when people who create high-tech unique products with their own minds and hands receive fewer "effective managers" of Rosneft and Gazprom. Which, by the way, has nothing to brag about lately, there is failure after failure.
    Here's what needs to be done in the first place in my opinion.
    But, alas, it is beyond my power to do this.
    I agree 100%. "Economists-managers" have such a position for them COMMERCIAL DIRECTOR and no further.
    In the USSR, specialized universities trained ECONOMIC ENGINEERS.

    ... and the fact that nowadays almshouses are stamped on every corner, I call it "parental duty". In the future, their child who is worthless will work as a janitor or a handyman at a construction site, or it could be a specialist, albeit with a secondary technical one, and it is not bad at the same time to earn and live, this does not reach many, of all the crap even in relation to the most expensive one. Still, it is high time to think about a single higher state education, free of charge, so that there is a choice of applicants and the closure of all paid shops, they bring colossal damage both to the country as a whole and to individuals.
    1. Alf
      Alf 8 August 2020 20: 58
      +1
      Quote: Sarkazm
      they cause colossal damage to the country as a whole and to individuals.

      No, such actions bring colossal income to "individuals".
  29. APASUS
    APASUS 8 August 2020 21: 08
    +2
    They make one of the two firms, and who will benefit from this.
  30. Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 8 August 2020 21: 08
    +2
    According to the newspaper, in the course of the next reform, the UAC made a decision to merge the Ilyushin Design Bureau, the Aviastar-SP and VASO enterprises controlled by it, on the one hand, and the Tupolev Design Bureau - Kazan Aviation Plant, on the other.

    What will the FAS RF say to this?
    1. Alf
      Alf 9 August 2020 21: 06
      +1
      Quote: Lara Croft
      According to the newspaper, in the course of the next reform, the UAC made a decision to merge the Ilyushin Design Bureau, the Aviastar-SP and VASO enterprises controlled by it, on the one hand, and the Tupolev Design Bureau - Kazan Aviation Plant, on the other.

      What will the FAS RF say to this?

      He will say what is ordered, and will also explain that this is better for the business, and monopoly in this case is even useful.
  31. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 8 August 2020 21: 18
    +1
    In short, you can see a complete ass has come.
    There are a lot of talks about the production of airliners, and the release seems to be about 1 aircraft per year
  32. Radikal
    Radikal 8 August 2020 21: 30
    +2
    Quote: seregatara1969
    We have not forgotten Serdyukov about the helicopter school, about the brigade of railway troops in the forests without rails. The railway troops have still not been able to fully recover. The bridge across the Volga was assembled from three military units somehow. Helicopter pilots still teach something. And this is only in one city.

    In fact, in the country, besides Serdyukov, there is one more person, whom some call the Supreme Commander-in-Chief ... lol
    1. Alf
      Alf 9 August 2020 21: 07
      0
      Quote: Radikal
      Quote: seregatara1969
      We have not forgotten Serdyukov about the helicopter school, about the brigade of railway troops in the forests without rails. The railway troops have still not been able to fully recover. The bridge across the Volga was assembled from three military units somehow. Helicopter pilots still teach something. And this is only in one city.

      In fact, in the country, besides Serdyukov, there is one more person, whom some call the Supreme Commander-in-Chief ... lol

      If the supreme commander of the furniture marshal approved such a position, then he approved all his actions in advance.
  33. 123456789
    123456789 8 August 2020 21: 52
    +2
    "They are waiting in the basement: dawn is about to dawn.

    And the smell of mold is already habitually resistant.

    But, instead of the light, there is a rattle above -

    In a brothel, beds are rearranged again "
  34. Patriot228
    Patriot228 8 August 2020 22: 20
    +2
    It seems to me that they will unite all this in a modern way, management will double in size, the number of engineers will remain the same, I have already seen such unions. Engineers are not recruited, design bureaus are not developed, but the economic, legal and marketing departments have tripled.
  35. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 8 August 2020 22: 31
    +2
    received the approval of Anatoly Serdyukov,

    After that, you will have to order a funeral march for Tu and Il. It is high time for Serdyukov to meet with Gaidar, why was he staying here?
    1. Alf
      Alf 9 August 2020 21: 12
      +1
      Quote: Aviator_
      It is high time for Serdyukov to meet with Gaidar, why was he staying here?

      I haven't broken everything yet.
  36. Sotskiy
    Sotskiy 8 August 2020 22: 51
    +1
    According to the newspaper, in the course of the next reform, the UAC made a decision to merge the Ilyushin Design Bureau, the Aviastar-SP and VASO enterprises controlled by it, on the one hand, and the Tupolev Design Bureau - Kazan Aviation Plant, on the other.

    Since its inception, there has been competition between design bureaus and their projects from which the best were born. After this "reform", what will the optimized TYANITOLKAY from the novel by Kornei Chukovsky be designed now?
  37. jaroff
    jaroff 9 August 2020 09: 13
    +1
    The penultimate nail in the coffin lid of the Russian aviation
  38. Old26
    Old26 9 August 2020 17: 01
    +1
    Quote: bayard
    And the victims of the exam can only design the IL-112 of the first iteration with an overweight by THREE tons.

    At one time, before the launch of the first AMS on Mars, Korolev found out that it was also overweight. Did the USE victims design it too? It is not necessary to automatically enroll all those who graduated from high school to be stupid. There are a lot of smart and purposeful guys who are by no means "victims of the Unified State Exam." My daughter was also among the first to take the USE instead of the usual exams. And nothing. I entered the university on a budget, graduated from it, and then a magistracy (also on a budget) with a "red diploma. She knows 2 languages, teaches at a language school, plans to teach one or two more. And I don't consider her (like her friends and peers ) victims of the exam.
    And you, as something happens in Russia, so the victims of the exam are always to blame, of which, in your opinion, there are probably millions
  39. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 9 August 2020 17: 17
    +3
    Another optimization, their mom ...
    They will fire "extra" hard workers and engineers, so that "effective" managers do not swell with hunger.
  40. Radikal
    Radikal 9 August 2020 22: 06
    0
    Quote: Alf
    Quote: Radikal
    Quote: seregatara1969
    We have not forgotten Serdyukov about the helicopter school, about the brigade of railway troops in the forests without rails. The railway troops have still not been able to fully recover. The bridge across the Volga was assembled from three military units somehow. Helicopter pilots still teach something. And this is only in one city.

    In fact, in the country, besides Serdyukov, there is one more person, whom some call the Supreme Commander-in-Chief ... lol

    If the supreme commander of the furniture marshal approved such a position, then he approved all his actions in advance.

    You correctly understood my idea. bully hi
  41. Radikal
    Radikal 9 August 2020 22: 07
    +1
    Quote: Al_lexx
    Another optimization, their mom ...
    They will fire "extra" hard workers and engineers, so that "effective" managers do not swell with hunger.

    Yes, that's how you understood this whole "process". sad
    1. c2020
      c2020 10 August 2020 06: 32
      +2
      Given the vast territory, the concepts of "Russia" and "Russian aviation" are one and the same. The unification of Tupolev and Ilyushin means the liquidation of two unique largest Russian aviation schools and the final defeat of the corresponding sphere of Russian high technologies. There is undisguised betrayal and high treason. Without competing high technologies of Tupolev and Ilyushin, the territory of Russia can easily be enslaved by states with a developed aviation industry and a large fleet of aircraft. No missiles or submarines can defend Russia with its vast territory. Not a single smelly missile took off to defend the mighty USSR. Not a single stinking missile even shot down Matthias Rust's cartoon Cessna. The traitors simply surrendered the USSR. And now the state traitors can only be stopped by a military tribunal.
  42. Mimino
    Mimino 10 August 2020 07: 59
    +1
    Such associations unambiguously mean the death of one of the KB.
  43. naGua
    naGua 10 August 2020 08: 16
    0
    I don’t know how now, but in my time in schools, teachers practiced this way to raise the academic performance of unsuccessful students. A poor student was planted to an excellent student with the expectation that an excellent student by his example would positively affect the academic performance of the lagging behind. However, as a rule, it turned out exactly the opposite. An excellent student fell under the influence of a poor student and began to roll down, collecting all the steps of youthful sins. It seems to me, in this case, a very appropriate analogy.
  44. Varaga
    Varaga 10 August 2020 11: 23
    0
    It would not work out as in the old Russian proverb: "Start - for health, finish - for peace."
  45. Shumersky
    Shumersky 10 August 2020 12: 26
    0
    geeks - coekakers to optimize production will be a decline and end with the funeral of the aircraft industry, which is what they are striving for bastards made with a finger ...
  46. Allexir
    Allexir 10 August 2020 16: 19
    0
    GREAT STUPIDITY - we will lose the original aircraft-building schools, and there will be one, maybe a good one, but one. There will be no spirit of rivalry of thoughts between different schools.
  47. alex-sherbakov48
    alex-sherbakov48 10 August 2020 17: 21
    0
    I do not expect anything good from this association, because this idea is "pushed" by the furniture maker Seryukov, who knows nothing about aviation, and therefore cannot offer anything sensible. The army almost collapsed, now he undertook to carry out the task of the US State Department on the collapse of our aviation.
  48. Radikal
    Radikal 11 August 2020 03: 39
    0
    Quote: c2020
    Given the vast territory, the concepts of "Russia" and "Russian aviation" are one and the same. The unification of Tupolev and Ilyushin means the liquidation of two unique largest Russian aviation schools and the final defeat of the corresponding sphere of Russian high technologies. There is undisguised betrayal and high treason. Without competing high technologies of Tupolev and Ilyushin, the territory of Russia can easily be enslaved by states with a developed aviation industry and a large fleet of aircraft. No missiles or submarines can defend Russia with its vast territory. Not a single smelly missile took off to defend the mighty USSR. Not a single stinking missile even shot down Matthias Rust's cartoon Cessna. The traitors simply surrendered the USSR. And now the state traitors can only be stopped by a military tribunal.

    I agree! hi