Military Review

Why won't I be a liberal

287

I am often asked questions with a certain trick. There are especially many such questions after publications related to our and not our liberals. In general, this category is quite diverse and really considers itself a progressive part of society, which is called upon to make a revolution in the brains of slaves. Moreover, almost all opponents will always "will." I will graduate from university and I will ... I will become a deputy and I will ... I will organize a new social movement and I will ...


"You despise modern liberals, and Putin said that he is a liberal ..." Such a contradiction. Putin, who is called a usurper who has concentrated enormous power in his hands, calls himself a liberal. I, a statesman, in fact, despise modern liberals. Naturally, people who are not distinguished by a special education have a completely logical conclusion about my attitude towards the head of state.

Alas, despite the fact that I am not a political scientist, not a philosopher, not an economist, but rather a locksmith-intellectual, as the classics wrote, the conclusion must be made completely different. Putin calls himself a liberal precisely because he knows what liberalism is deeply enough, and not like most of those who consider themselves liberals. He just studied well in his time. I also studied.

I do not in any way claim to be the ultimate truth. I’ll just express my own opinion about contemporary liberalism in Russia. Why, in my opinion, what is called liberalism in Russia should be called differently. Moreover, the views that are presented to us as the achievements of liberals have nothing to do with liberalism. It is rather counter-liberalism.

A little about the history of the emergence of liberalism


Man is a social being. The reason for this is not any special love of a person for his own kind. Everything is much more prosaic. A flock, tribe, group is necessary for a person to survive. Naturally, in any group, a leader stands out who is more capable of organizing well-coordinated work. The decisions of the leader, the leader (the name does not matter) always cause a negative reaction from some part of the tribe. I have not discovered anything new. In modern life, nothing has changed in this regard.

These disaffected people became the first liberals. They strove for personal freedom, independence from the decisions of the leader. However, the aspiration was peculiar. Personal freedom, but the social mammoth, which was obtained by the tribesmen under the leadership of the leader, the first liberals devoured by both cheeks on a par with "slaves". And liberalism very quickly ended with a proposal to "get out of here." And life outside the tribe ended quickly enough. The man was also someone's food.

Another essential element of liberalism as an ideology appeared much later, during the Enlightenment. It appeared when the world entered the New Time. When the realization appeared that freedom is impossible without private property. An empty stomach is not conducive to philosophical reflection.

The third element grew out of the first two. If a person is independent, fed, has his own land, home, he has the right to reflect on the transience of the world. Human mind as the value of the world!

This is what is called classical liberalism. An ideology that preaches freedom, private property and human reason as the greatest values ​​of humanity.

All that glitters is not gold


For some reason, modern liberals have completely forgotten history... Or rather, they deliberately do not remember. I'm talking about the "coma" of liberalism after the "dying" of the economic theory of Adam Smith. I will not remind the theory. Even today it is deeply studied in universities. Let me just remind you of one of the main postulates that modern liberals often use.

An economic person, a mercenary being, will constantly strive to increase his well-being. And since a person is a part of society, the well-being of one will lead to the well-being of the whole society. The fulfillment of the desire of the economic man will occur in a "natural order."

Simply put, Smith said (translated into modern language) exactly what modern liberals tell us. The market itself will regulate the economic relations of people. The market will create conditions for the self-realization of any citizen. It is the market that will regulate the entire system of economic relations between people. Adam Smith called this the "natural order" of economic relations between people.

But for some reason, the liberals forgot about Thomas Hill Green. But it was he who "modernized" Smith's ideas. He created the theory of social liberalism. I'm not talking about those who shout about freedom on the street. Everything is clear there, it is necessary to collect and, as in the 20-30s of the last century, send to school. Organize an educational program for the illiterate.

I'm talking about those who know Green. Do you know why they are silent? Simply because social liberalism leads to Marxism ... It was this English philosopher, a descendant of Oliver Cromwell, who expressed the idea of ​​regulating the economic relations of people by the state. Only in this case can we talk about equal starting opportunities for young people.

Do you know how, in the final analysis, the concept of social liberalism differs from the concept of Marxism? This, in my opinion, is one of the indicators of President Putin's economic literacy. It is the understanding of this difference that gives Putin the right to call himself a liberal. Here, it seems to me, an explanation is needed.

The difference between the two approaches to economics lies in the attitude to private property! Liberals idealize private property as a guarantee of human economic independence and a guarantee of social security in old age. They completely ignore the fact that human society is heterogeneous. That there are people who, by virtue of their own genius, impudence, criminal inclinations, etc., will take property from part of the people.

Communists, on the other hand, view private property as a way to deprive a certain part of society, the most vulnerable, of these guarantees. A person sometimes finds himself in situations where funds are needed, for example, illness or death of loved ones, and then he sells his property for next to nothing. Thus, a wealthy minority appears. And the majority of the people are left without social guarantees.

In fact, the communists are just left-wing radical liberals in the economy.

Erzats as a reason for dislike of liberals in Russia


It is not in vain that I devoted so much space to common truths that are known to educated people at least superficially. The pure liberal idea is really attractive. A person was born free and reasonable, which means that he has the right to dispose of his freedom himself. A person must have property as a guarantee of his independence.

The highest value is man. The state is just a tool for solving common problems of people. And then only for a while. So far, society is not self-organizing and can exist without a state. Therefore, the power of the state must be based on the will of the people. It is the will of the people that is the manifestation of freedom. Power and law acquire force only by the will of the people.

The state should act as a regulator of market relations. It is the state that should regulate the relationship between owners and hired workers, provide equal starting opportunities for young people, resolve issues of education, medical care, exercise the right to work, social guarantees of old age, and regulate the production of goods in the interests of society.

You can continue to expound liberal ideas in the future. Agree, the ideas are great! Like the ideas of communism. However, for some reason they do not take root in human society. Maybe someday we will grow up to implement them.

Let's go back to Russia. To why in our country the word "liberal" has become a dirty word and is rarely used in its original form. There are so many variations in the media and in conversations! Why do the people of Russia ignore the idea of ​​freedom? Are some of the ardent enemies of Russia who have been talking about the slave soul of the Russians for many years right?

Everything is very simple. Russians feel the deception very well. At the genetic level. Youth? Yes, studying in Western universities, the work of grant-eaters in Russian universities, the existence of opposition media are doing their vile work. Some young people, especially in large cities with a large number of universities, really support the Russian opposition. But most remember the 90s of the last century very well.

Russian liberals have turned into ersatz liberals. A cheap fake. Let's go through the main ideas of the liberals that I voiced above, and see how they are implemented by our home-grown ersatz liberals.

Freedom? There seems to be nothing to say. How can the very concept of freedom be perverted? Remember what liberal politicians urge us to do? To the fulfillment of their liberal programs. Note, not to what the majority of the people want, but to what the part that supports the liberals wants. We went through this. Remember all these Chubais, Gaidars and others. Whose freedom were they promoting? Freedom to implement your own ideas!

Moreover, it sometimes seems to me that for our liberals, personal freedom is above all. Above the law, promising by the way they deliberately violate the laws during their marches, events in Khabarovsk and other actions. Above the will of the people. This is me about speaking out against the voting results.

Mind? Read the comments of liberals - and you will understand that they do not need your mind. They do not initially recognize you as an intelligent being. Just because you think differently. Even if you are the majority, you are not a decree for liberals. Anyone who thinks differently is not a decree. Only those who belong to the supporters of liberal ideas are recognized as correct.

Private property? And tell me, please, where are your three Volgas, which you were promised for the voucher? Where are your factories, banks, ships? How did it happen that, theoretically having received part of the property of the USSR, you were left with a nose? I understand that most readers are now thinking.

The answer is simple. Liberals of the 90s and liberals of our day initially proceed from the idea not to guarantee the inviolability of property, but, on the contrary, to deprive the majority of property in order to form a rich minority! This is the dominant idea of ​​Russian liberals. It is necessary to create a caste of the rich in order to implement the same projects that have been implemented in the "old" capitalist countries.

Those who at least sometimes watch political shows on our TV do not even notice the things that I have told about. Have you ever heard of your right to build a country of your own free will? And have you heard about the fact that we need to recognize some international norms, laws, rules? But this is nothing but the recognition of us fools. What I wrote about above.

Why am I not a liberal and never will be


I live in a country with a thousand-year history. I live in a country that was defended by many generations of my ancestors. I live in a country that has given the world a lot. We live in this country. And this alone gives us the right to live the way we want. The way the majority of the people of Russia decide. Liberal ideas are attractive, although they look utopian. Many of these ideas can indeed be translated into reality.

But I absolutely do not want to be a dumb cattle, which in the morning are driven out to graze on the nearest lawn, and in the evening they are driven into the barn. I want to decide everything in my country myself. Not prompted by an overseas uncle or an aunt from some Portugal.

And I have enough brains to study the experience of others and implement in myself what suits me. Not how to live correctly, but exactly what suits me!
Author:
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287 comments
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  1. seti
    seti 6 August 2020 10: 04 New
    10
    Liberal for me has long been consonant with swearing.
    1. Pravodel
      Pravodel 6 August 2020 10: 28 New
      +1
      Not only you, but also the majority of the people, the population of Russia. I join you: liberal = liberal .... Art. True, one must also add, liberal ... art = traitor to the Motherland, Fatherland and people.
    2. Civil
      Civil 6 August 2020 10: 29 New
      10
      All who are against United Russia are liberals.
      All who are against the oligarchs are liberals.
      Anyone who is against the stability and prosperity that has swept our rich, independent, with the highest medicine and education, decent incomes and a fair pension is a liberd.
      Raised the red flag - liberal. If you love Stalin, you are a liberal.
      It is time to move on to the final solution of the liberal question. How much can these critics and mismasters be tolerated?
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 6 August 2020 10: 48 New
        +3
        It is time to move on to the final solution of the liberal question. How much can these critics and mismasters be tolerated?
        ... What a zakovyka, there is no money to post the liberals indicated by you, let it go, they themselves will die out in the conditions created by him .. smile
      2. CSKA
        CSKA 6 August 2020 13: 18 New
        -1
        Quote: Civil
        All who are against United Russia are liberals.
        All who are against the oligarchs are liberals.
        Anyone who is against the stability and prosperity that has swept our rich, independent, with the highest medicine and education, decent incomes and a fair pension is a liberd.
        Raised the red flag - liberal. If you love Stalin, you are a liberal.
        It is time to move on to the final solution of the liberal question. How much can these critics and mismasters be tolerated?

        )))))) Did you decide that or where did you read it? Have you read the article yourself?
      3. Vladimir B.
        Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 16: 44 New
        16
        Quote: Civil
        If you love Stalin, you are a liberal.

        And if I also respect the dear and respected Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev, then I am the same liberal or not? wassat
        1. Civil
          Civil 6 August 2020 17: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Vladimir B.
          Quote: Civil
          If you love Stalin, you are a liberal.

          And if I also respect the dear and respected Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev, then I am the same liberal or not? wassat

          Then, in general, a liberal - Shenderovich, worse than Dzerzhinsky F.E.
    3. Basil50
      Basil50 6 August 2020 11: 54 New
      +2
      City
      In our time, when euphemisms replace the designation (name) of the phenomenon, anyone can be awarded or insulted by the nickname - * liberal *. Today homosexuals in Europe, who were considered mentally unhealthy in the WHO until the beginning of this century, have already been awarded many advantages and are even considered * an advanced and developed part of humanity * who, without any criticism, are inscribed almost in the angelic rank. Even the Church of Europe views them in a similar capacity.
      So it is not surprising that an idiot can be recognized as a genius or a philosopher as determining the general trend in the development of humanity.
      Literally before our very eyes, * xVilosof * was cheated with his idea about * the end of history *. So it's not worth worrying about the self-designation of different moods. Today they called themselves that way, tomorrow they call it differently. Moreover, the conceptual apparatus is also arbitrarily changed by these * thinkers *.
  2. aglet
    aglet 6 August 2020 10: 11 New
    11
    deflection counted
    1. depressant
      depressant 6 August 2020 12: 11 New
      10
      Aha)) Is it not for the sake of this, imperceptibly inserted, paragraph the article was written:

      “Moreover, it sometimes seems to me that for our liberals, personal freedom is above all. Above all rights, judging by the way they deliberately violate the laws during their marches, events in Khabarovsk and other actions. Above the will of the people. speeches against the results of the vote. "
      Rezanulo.
      The events in Khabarovsk should be highlighted in italics. Having covered these events by adhering to the assessment of the liberals, who are always a political stopper to any protest barrel, and this has long been known to everyone, the respected Author reduces the protests of the Khabarovsk people from the level of despair, fear of the future of the depressed region, to a level acceptable for Putin, "they themselves do not know why they want, they just have such festivities, it will resolve. " Isn't it, Author? And at the same time to instill in our subconscious the same perception. It would be nice for the president to take care of the country, going beyond the boundaries of the long-obsolete in the post-industrial era, heterogeneous ideas about liberalism of the eras of the past.
  3. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 6 August 2020 10: 12 New
    14
    Everything around and around, praised Putin a little, lowered the communists. Not a word about edrosov and other party members. Words, words, and where is the program of action? One liberal chatter.
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 6 August 2020 10: 58 New
      +6
      Quote: 7,62x54
      Everything around and around, praised Putin a little, lowered the communists. Not a word about edrosov and other party members. Words, words, and where is the program of action? One liberal chatter.

      This is what the author wrote about. The "Liberal" admits the existence of only his own position. And everything that at least in some way does not coincide with his beliefs, he declares to be defective and unreasonable.
      Yes, you are a "liberal", my friend.
      1. 7,62h54
        7,62h54 6 August 2020 11: 07 New
        -3
        And I have a rough tongue, judging by the shoulder straps, you are still training
        1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 6 August 2020 11: 25 New
          +4
          Quote: 7,62x54
          And I have a rough tongue, judging by the shoulder straps, you are still training

          Interesting theory, but weird. Can you expand?
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 6 August 2020 11: 22 New
        +4
        The "liberal" admits the existence of only his own position. And everything that at least in some way does not coincide with his beliefs, he declares to be defective and unreasonable.
        Then, it turns out Nicholas I was a liberal, and Alexander II was an anti-liberal ... laughing
        1. Baloo
          Baloo 6 August 2020 11: 29 New
          -1
          Quote: parusnik
          The "liberal" admits the existence of only his own position. And everything that at least in some way does not coincide with his beliefs, he declares to be defective and unreasonable.
          Then, it turns out Nicholas I was a liberal, and Alexander II was an anti-liberal ... laughing

          And who were General Alekseev and Mason Kerensky?
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 6 August 2020 11: 43 New
            +2
            Ersatz liberals, probably ... laughing
        2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 6 August 2020 11: 29 New
          +3
          Quote: parusnik
          Then, it turns out Nicholas I was a liberal, and Alexander II was an anti-liberal ...

          I do not understand your idea. Clarify please.
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 6 August 2020 11: 46 New
            +3
            "You and I are equally careless today" (c) .. smile And you think ...
            1. Financier
              Financier 6 August 2020 12: 29 New
              +9
              Quote: parusnik
              You and I are equally careless today

              The verdict is final and not subject to appeal
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 6 August 2020 11: 29 New
      +7
      Quote: 7,62x54
      All around, they praised Putin a little
      He just studied well in his time. I also studied.
      We all learned a little, something and somehow.
      1. Financier
        Financier 6 August 2020 12: 30 New
        11
        Quote: tihonmarine
        We all learned a little, something and somehow

        And after the studies, everyone retained certain knowledge.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 6 August 2020 12: 38 New
          +4
          Quote: Financier
          And after the studies, everyone retained certain knowledge.

          Well, yes, and not "chaff" we will not be fooled.
      2. Vladimir B.
        Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 16: 31 New
        16
        Quote: tihonmarine
        He just studied well in his time. I also studied.

        I don’t understand what the author wanted to say by this? That he studied well? Or that he understands certain points better than anyone else? But considering yourself smarter than others is not correct, there will always be someone who is smarter than you.
    3. Financier
      Financier 6 August 2020 12: 16 New
      +8
      Quote: 7,62x54
      and where is the program of action? One liberal chatter.

      Well, here it is
      For some reason, the liberals forgot about Thomas Hill Green

      For the author, the works of the 19th century Hegelian philosopher Green are the most authoritative source with a program of action. But the author forgets about other theorists of social liberalism who refuted Green ...
  4. Clueless
    Clueless 6 August 2020 10: 15 New
    -2
    Oh oh. Here, if you are against the government, even if you didn’t kidnap, you will still be called a liberal
    We created fascism in its purest form, where people are divided into friends and foes.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 6 August 2020 10: 29 New
      -2
      Quote: Bad
      We created fascism in its purest form, where people are divided into friends and foes.

      Is the appeal: "They are beating ours!" Only appeared today? laughing
    2. 7,62h54
      7,62h54 6 August 2020 10: 40 New
      0
      Rather, if a person is against the government he will be called some kind of word with an ending in ".... fil." And then a psychiatric hospital, compulsory treatment and other delights. Or a bag will be thrown.
    3. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 6 August 2020 11: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: Bad
      even if you didn't crafty, you will still be called a liberal

      fool All non-Kraphiles are liberals. Although, of course, not every liberal ..... Come across much nastier, disgusting and meaner.
    4. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 6 August 2020 11: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: Bad
      Oh oh. Here, if you are against the government, even if you didn’t kidnap, you will still be called a liberal

      Yesterday on the site, they stood up for the power, especially for the nullified one, that tears of emotion came to me.
  5. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 6 August 2020 10: 19 New
    +1
    In general, this category is quite diverse and really considers itself a progressive part of society, which is called upon to make a revolution in the brains of slaves.
    They cannot look at themselves from the outside. They themselves are slaves to one idea. "West is a temple on a hill." fool And all his ulcers, all his abominations are beautiful. request
  6. A.TOR
    A.TOR 6 August 2020 10: 20 New
    +1
    For a country with a European, in general, way of life, liberalism as the basis of the economic foundation of the state is, presumably, the only driver of economic development at a decent pace.
    Everything else is more or less effective "somewhere" in Asia, but not in Russia.
    You can scold "liberalism" as much as you like (especially "liberalism in the Russian way"), but to understand that the economy, if it wants to progress, MUST live according to the liberal model - it is necessary.
    Otherwise, the backlog will only grow: either liberalism with small and medium-sized businesses with severe restrictions on giant corporations, primarily raw materials, or what is in Russia today
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 6 August 2020 10: 41 New
      -11
      Quote: A.TOR
      For a country with a European, in general, way of life,

      There are three mature civilizations in the World - Western civilization (USA), Eastern civilization (China) and Russian civilization (Moscow). The difference between the two is determined by the culture shaped by the creeds.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 6 August 2020 11: 36 New
        0
        Quote: Boris55
        There are three mature civilizations in the world

        And one under-civilization.
        1. _Sergei_
          _Sergei_ 6 August 2020 11: 58 New
          0
          And one under-civilization.
          these are the balts
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 6 August 2020 12: 03 New
            0
            Quote: _Sergey_
            these are the balts
            This is all that is south of Western Sahara. And what you write is just a trifle with numbers on the map instead of a name.
      2. A.TOR
        A.TOR 6 August 2020 12: 08 New
        -2
        Do not produce entities. There is no "Russian civilization". And the "civilization of the East" is far from China alone.
        And the "West" is by no means the USA only. Don't oversimplify the world!
        1. Vladimir B.
          Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 16: 21 New
          10
          Quote: A.TOR
          There is no "Russian civilization"

          There is no Russian civilization. There is a Russian civilization.
      3. Financier
        Financier 6 August 2020 12: 34 New
        12
        And where did you put the civilization of the Middle East (Arabs), or did they not give the world another culture?
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 6 August 2020 11: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: A.TOR
      For a country with a European, in general, way of life, liberalism as the basis of the economic foundation of the state is, presumably, sole driver of economic development at a decent pace.
      I suppose, I suppose, maybe I don't know. Say so.
      the only drive for economic development at a decent pace
      Who said stupid dropout who does not know the history of his country? The rate of development of the Stalinist economy of the USSR exceeded the rate of development in the 20th century of the USA, modern China, and Japan of the 60s. fool And the fabulously rapid restoration of the national economy since 1945, with the parallel provision of assistance to the whole of Eastern Europe (with the restoration of Warsaw from oblivion). fool fool fool Fabulous nonsense. request
      1. A.TOR
        A.TOR 6 August 2020 12: 06 New
        -1
        Do you want a "snatch from the stick"? Now it will not work, you need to develop not in jerks.
        You, dear, boor.
        1. Financier
          Financier 6 August 2020 12: 39 New
          11
          Quote: A.TOR
          Do you want a "snatch from the stick"?

          Do you think that Stalin's economic success was possible only thanks to a "pull from under the stick"? You are wrong. Read the political economy of Stalin, and perhaps you will understand, thanks to which there was a restoration of the USSR and Eastern Europe after the war.
          1. A.TOR
            A.TOR 6 August 2020 13: 14 New
            -4
            What "was" and what is there are two big differences. Now "the way it was then" will not work.
            Why dream and fantasize about models that cannot be realized?
            1. Vladimir B.
              Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 16: 15 New
              12
              Quote: A.TOR
              Now "the way it was then" will not work.

              It will not work under the existing capitalist system. But it is worth changing it and it may turn out, with modern technologies, better than then.
              1. A.TOR
                A.TOR 6 August 2020 17: 05 New
                -2
                "Modern technologies" are generated, overwhelmingly, in the West
        2. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 6 August 2020 17: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: A.TOR
          You, dear, boor.

          This is another question. And you are definitely a complete liberalist. angry
          "pull from the stick" fool
          There is no "Russian civilization". fool
          the economy, if it wants to progress, SHOULD live according to the liberal modelfool
    3. CSKA
      CSKA 6 August 2020 13: 23 New
      +2
      Quote: A.TOR
      You can scold "liberalism" as much as you like (especially "liberalism in Russian")

      If at least half of those present at the VO read what liberalism is, they might not have criticized it that way. But as you correctly put it, there is liberalism in Russian, which in fact cannot be considered liberalism, this is an outright betrayal of the motherland.
      Quote: A.TOR
      but to understand that the economy, if it wants to progress, MUST live according to the liberal model - it is necessary.

      But here I disagree with you. A purely liberal economy is Hong Kong, Singapore or Japan. It has its own specifics. As a conservative, I am inclined towards protectionism in the economy.
      1. A.TOR
        A.TOR 6 August 2020 13: 50 New
        -1
        A liberal economy may well get along with protectionism, because it is an instrument for protecting relations within a liberal economy.
        At first, superficial glance, nonsense, but this is exactly what it is in most cases. INSIDE the country must have a liberal economic mechanism, then it - over time - can become competitive outside.
        Then it is possible to "open arms" to friends - competitors.
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 6 August 2020 17: 16 New
          0
          Quote: A.TOR
          A liberal economy may well get along with protectionism, because it is an instrument for protecting relations within a liberal economy.
          At first, superficial glance, nonsense, but this is exactly what it is in most cases.

          I would call it a paradox, because I know very well what liberal economics and conservative economics are.
          Quote: A.TOR
          INSIDE the country must have a liberal economic mechanism, then it - over time - can become competitive outside.

          I completely agree. With a free domestic market, you need to adhere to protectionism in foreign trade policy.
      2. Financier
        Financier 6 August 2020 14: 19 New
        +8
        Quote: CSKA
        liberalism in Russian

        Westernism. And the beginning was not made now.
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 6 August 2020 17: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Financier
          Westernism. And the beginning was not made now.

          You may have found the right word.
  7. rocket757
    rocket757 6 August 2020 10: 27 New
    +4
    The topic is so vague that it is useless to look for a rational grain in it.
    For the layman, in general, simpler criteria define his being.
  8. DNS-a42
    DNS-a42 6 August 2020 10: 31 New
    +6
    From the "Stalinist" textbook of political economy in 1954 (Ostrovityanov K.V.).

    About liberals:
    Some bourgeois economists in the United States and Britain advocate the "free play of economic forces," by which they actually mean the unlimited freedom of monopolies to exploit workers and rob consumers.

    About statists:
    Modern bourgeois economists usually emphasize the need for all-round state intervention in economic life. Meanwhile, in practice, the intervention of the bourgeois state in economic life has nothing to do with planning the national economy and further intensifies the anarchy of production. Apologists for monopolies hypocritically pass off as "organized capitalism" the subordination of the imperialist state to the financial oligarchy, its widespread use of the state apparatus in its own selfish interests to increase the profits of the monopolies.

    The bottom line:
    Both the heralds of the "regulation" of the economy by the bourgeois state, and the advocates of the "free play of economic forces" express the interests of the financial oligarchy.
    1. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 16: 09 New
      +8
      Quote: DNS-a42
      Some bourgeois economists in the United States and England advocate the "free play of economic forces", by which in practice they mean the unlimited freedom of monopolies to exploit workers and rob consumers

      And now all this is happening in our country ...
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 6 August 2020 10: 32 New
    +4
    Remember all these Chubais, Gaidars and others. Whose freedom were they promoting? Freedom to implement your own ideas!
    .... And why remember them, here they are next to each other, everything is in place, in business ... have not gone anywhere ..
    Why am I not a liberal and never will be [
    /b * ... And why did you describe liberal ideas, social-liberal ones so beautifully then? ... Or perhaps you wanted to say that you don't want to be an ersatz liberal.? [b]
    Russian liberals have turned into ersatz liberals.
    ... You somehow sort out your political views, if you are not a liberal, not a communist (by the way, the communists opposed private ownership of the means of production, and not against private property in general), then write it like this ...
    1. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 16: 07 New
      11
      Quote: parusnik
      everything is in place, in business ... has not gone anywhere.

      And they will not go away ... Some were even awarded, and Kiriyenko received a hero of Russia in general ...
  10. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 6 August 2020 10: 33 New
    +5
    Glue labels is the last thing. The thing must be done.
  11. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 6 August 2020 10: 33 New
    +2
    There is nothing worse in the world than the philosophy of liberalism. So it is impossible to defile her. No matter how cunning its adherents may be, all the same, ends stick out from their explanations in all directions. Liberalism is a desire to exist at the expense of others, taking what one wants from society and not giving it anything that one is reluctant to give.
    Let others work for me, and I will devote myself to the hard work of tasting wines and snacks. And the more others die, what have I got to do with it? I will "go to a normal country." And then I'll come back if all these pathetic patriots manage to defend this one and build it again. When I return, I will continue to muddy the muddy for the growth of my private property (as you know, from the labors of the righteous you cannot make stone chambers, "to get rich, you need to come up with something else"), and I will dodge any attempts to demand a debt from me to society.
    If a person considers himself a liberal, then all other people in his presence should be very careful about their pocket, and their language.
    1. depressant
      depressant 6 August 2020 10: 54 New
      +4
      Michael 3, I support. In addition, I dug up several contradictions from the Author, about them later, now I have no time)))
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 6 August 2020 11: 24 New
        +1
        I dug up several contradictions from the Author
        ... "And they themselves do not know what they want" (c) love hi
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 6 August 2020 12: 21 New
        -1
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna, is it not the Smolensk medical facility?
        1. depressant
          depressant 6 August 2020 12: 49 New
          +3
          Mikhail, what is a health care facility?
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 6 August 2020 13: 19 New
            0
            Linear Production Management Gazprom, on the pipe silit, drives gas through itself. That is, I made a mistake) Sorry.
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 6 August 2020 11: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: Mikhail3
      Liberalism is a desire to exist at the expense of others, taking what one wants from society and not giving it anything that one is reluctant to give.

      Therefore, clowns and actors, professors, rotten "Congress of rotten intelligentsia" are subject to it. angry And the service of the sovereign for them - ah, horror, horror.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 6 August 2020 13: 28 New
        +2
        Yes. But the main thing is the capitalists. The essence of capitalism is to maximize profits at minimal cost. Therefore, consumers, the basis of capitalist profit, should be as weak, stupid and dependent on anyone as possible. The feudal society absolutely did not suit the capitalists - there was so-called paternalism, which the capitalists wildly hate.
        Paternalism is when someone strong and smart takes care of people like a father in a family. For capitalists, this is absolutely unbearable! Because the damned paternalist feudal lord takes care of his subjects, and does not allow them to be deceived and robbed under the guise of trade. What kind of capitalism is this ?!
        Well, here is liberalism, so that cunning swindlers, thieves and robbers flourish, so that there is no one to protect people from them. Now, they say, instead of autocratic feudal lords (fu-fu-fu, worthless creatures !!), we have a law that is equally fair to everyone! You come for protection to an "equitable" law, and it has already been bought at the root! Or right there, among the lawyers, is sitting the same liberal who brought you to poverty. Sound familiar? In-in ...
    3. CSKA
      CSKA 6 August 2020 13: 28 New
      -2
      Quote: Mikhail3
      Liberalism is the desire to exist at the expense of others

      Where did you read this?
      Quote: Mikhail3
      taking from society what one wants, and not giving it anything that one is reluctant to give.

      You read what liberalism is.
      Quote: Mikhail3
      Let others work for me, and I will devote myself to the hard work of tasting wines and snacks. And the more others die, what have I got to do with it? I will "go to a normal country." And then I'll come back if all these pathetic patriots manage to defend this one and build it again. When I return, I will continue to muddy the muddy for the growth of my private property (as you know, from the labors of the righteous you cannot make stone chambers, "to get rich, you need to come up with something else"), and I will dodge any attempts to demand a debt from me to society.
      If a person considers himself a liberal, then all other people in his presence should be very careful about their pocket, and their language.

      ))))) You have reasoning at the school level in the understanding of what liberalism is.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 6 August 2020 13: 32 New
        +1
        I can and intelligently argue with terms). Only this method is more suitable not for explanations, but for deception. And if you cannot explain the essence of the phenomenon to the schoolchild, then you yourself do not understand this phenomenon for a penny. And if you can, then you start to catch up with the need to speak simply. So the essence is visible.
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 6 August 2020 17: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Mikhail3
          I can and intelligently argue, with terms)

          What are you? Sure? So explain to me in terms this nonsense that you wrote:
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Therefore, consumers, the basis of capitalist profit, should be as weak, stupid and dependent on anyone as possible.

          )))) What do you mean weaker?
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Paternalism is when someone strong and smart takes care of people like a father in a family. For capitalists, this is absolutely unbearable!

          How you dragged paternalism to capitalism is not clear at all. Paternalism is a system of relations NOT IN THE ECONOMY. Capitalism is an economic system.
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Because the damned paternalist feudal lord takes care of his subjects, and does not allow them to be deceived and robbed under the guise of trade. What kind of capitalism is this ?!

          )))) Laughing out loud. Yeah. So the feudal lords take care of their subjects, that at any whim they can execute the subject. Have you heard about the right of the first night? About the fact that all the feudal lords encouraged trade in their possessions as they received tax from it, I suppose you have not heard either?
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Well, here is liberalism, in order for cunning scammers, thieves and robbers to flourish

          Sheer nonsense. Where in what theory of liberalism, which liberal philosopher wrote that it is necessary to steal and plunder?
          Your all this nonsense is designed for a headless and illiterate person who probably has no secondary education. Pull yourself together and read what liberalism is. Maybe then you will stop tying it neither to the village nor to the city to feudalism, capitalism, fraud, theft.
          As a conservative, I am not a supporter of liberal ideas, perhaps partly in economics, but what you say about liberalism is not even funny, it will not fit a sane person on his head.
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 7 August 2020 09: 04 New
            -1
            It's funny to see how a liberal dodges. Against a person who has clear thinking, liberal deception is impossible) For this liberals hate smart and strong - they cannot be deceived, confused, instilled in them false values ​​and forced to serve.
    4. Financier
      Financier 6 August 2020 13: 28 New
      14
      Quote: Mikhail3
      If a person considers himself a liberal

      12 signs of a true Russian liberal:
      1. A true liberal hates the USSR and loves the Yeltsin era
      2. A real liberal always talks about "repressions" He either feels them, or expects that they are about to begin
      3. A true liberal is always happy about failures in his country
      4. A true liberal is terribly worried about the success of the country
      5. A true liberal always admires the West, but remains to live (for some reason) in Russia
      6. The efficiency of a real liberal is approaching 0 Liberals become not in order to do something for the country, but in order to find examples of a "bloody regime" and broadcast that Russia will soon come to an end
      7. A true liberal is not always intellectually disfigured
      8. A real liberal promises to return Crimea (not all, but many of the liberals)
      9. A real liberal - a political long-liver Despite the fact that the liberal is "persecuted by the authorities" all the time, he flashes before his eyes for decades
      10. A true liberal always apologizes to everyone for his country. For him, proof is not important. It doesn't matter to him that other countries are also to blame before Russia. For a liberal, only his homeland can be guilty
      11. A real liberal considers his people a hopeless cattle. A true liberal sits in expensive decorations and, drawing out his words, with sighs and rolling eyes, talks about how stupid and hopeless the Russian people are.
      12. And finally, a real liberal is waiting for Russia to disappear (not all, but there are some among the liberals).
      1. depressant
        depressant 6 August 2020 14: 54 New
        +4
        Financier, cool! )))
    5. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 15: 54 New
      +9
      Quote: Mikhail3
      There is nothing worse in the world than the philosophy of liberalism

      Yes, this is fascism with its various varieties and Nazism. hi
  12. Free wind
    Free wind 6 August 2020 10: 33 New
    -2
    Well, you are a Liberal: you choose what you need, you act according to your conscience, and not by someone's order, not for money, this is a free person. And if someone had read "Capital" by Marx, then with a nasty grin, he would not have talked about Communism. Free theories in economics in the West run like the devil from incense. This is something of anarchy in the economy. And in 1929-1933 America passed it. They have no desire to repeat it anymore.
    1. CSKA
      CSKA 6 August 2020 13: 29 New
      +2
      Quote: Free Wind
      Free theories in economics in the West run like the devil from incense.

      Give an example?
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 6 August 2020 16: 03 New
        -2
        US President Calvin Coolidge. 1923 -1929 years. A representative of the purest free economy, non-interference in the economy, the market will normalize by itself. ... The market normalized so much that the economy collapsed and half the world shook. Nobody else in America did this. The Americans have studied Marx's Capital, and the Great Depression is unlikely to be tolerated. One of the postulates of "capital" The wealth of the capitalist is not paid wages to the worker, from the value of the product. The concentration of wealth in some hands, at the expense of the impoverishment of others, inevitably leads to a crisis. And someone is grinning disgustingly.
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 6 August 2020 17: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: Free Wind
          US President Calvin Coolidge. 1923 -1929 years. A representative of the purest free economy, non-interference in the economy, the market will normalize by itself. ... The market normalized so much that the economy collapsed and half the world shook.

          Coolidge’s rule, which was guided by the principle of non-interference in the economy, was quite successful; The States were experiencing booming economic growth (“prosperity,” the “Roaring Twenties,” as they were called).
          The crisis happened for other reasons.
          Quote: Free Wind
          Nobody else in America did this.

          Didn't do what? Free market? They have it now.
          Quote: Free Wind
          Americans have studied "Capital" by Karl Marx

          lol Yeah. We sat and studied straight. Send your essays?
          Quote: Free Wind
          One of the postulates of "capital" The wealth of a capitalist is the unpaid wages to the worker, from the value of the product

          ))))) What product? The set of words in your Marx. Well, let's say I'm an engineer. I receive a salary and a monthly bonus based on the number of drawings issued. So much for the payment of wages by the capitalists from the value of the product. If a sales manager, then I receive, in addition to the salary, also a percentage of sales. Same. You can give more examples of other specialties and how they get from the capitalists. Your Marx himself never worked for a day as a worker, or a peasant, or an engineer. Wake up. Stop thinking in terms of the 19th century now everything is different, and you all live by the criteria of 150 years ago.
  13. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 6 August 2020 10: 35 New
    +7
    Those. all who criticize the government - bastards and enemies of Russia? So filthy liberals took to the streets in Khabarovsk? And true patriots cry with happiness, watching how Putin's friends get richer and the people impoverished ...
    1. CSKA
      CSKA 6 August 2020 13: 32 New
      -1
      Quote: Sahalinets
      Those. all who criticize the government - bastards and enemies of Russia? So filthy liberals took to the streets in Khabarovsk?

      Where and who said this? Have you read the article at all?
      Quote: Sahalinets
      And true patriots cry with happiness, watching how Putin's friends get richer and the people impoverished ...

      Well, of course. Again, nonsense about the poor people. And you there, I suppose, in poverty from a laptop or smartphone, write in tattered clothes and finish the last piece of bread?
      1. Vladimir B.
        Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 15: 43 New
        10
        Quote: CSKA
        Again ravings about the poor people

        The number of poor people in Russia has fluctuated around 20 million in recent years. This is more than 13% of the total population of the country. These are the calculations of Rosstat.
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 6 August 2020 15: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: Vladimir B.
          The number of poor people in Russia has fluctuated around 20 million in recent years. This is more than 13% of the total population of the country. These are the calculations of Rosstat.

          Every 7th. In the US, before the pandemic, 50 million were considered poor, also every 7th. But here we must take into account how many of our people get their salaries. In the company where I work there are many people with a salary of 10-15 thousand, but in fact they get 5 times more. And there are many of them in our country.
  14. iouris
    iouris 6 August 2020 10: 40 New
    +3
    "I am an intellectual locksmith."
    "I'm not an esthete, but I've never been a parasite!"
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 6 August 2020 10: 59 New
      +4
      "Thus, Lokhankin's long thoughts were reduced to a pleasant and close theme:" Vasisualy Lokhankin and his meaning "," Lokhankin and the tragedy of Russian Liberalism "," Lokhanki and his role in the Russian revolution. "(C)
      1. depressant
        depressant 6 August 2020 13: 31 New
        +5
        Amused, colleague! ))) Laughed heartily, thank you! ))
        And then it's time to cry. We talk about liberalism, and the liberal economy falls - falls, and that's it! For the sixth year in a row, no discounts on the coronavirus sneaking around the corner. And from which of the categories of liberalism we name the president, her fall will not slow down - she wanted to sneeze at the liberal definitions of herself and especially the president.
  15. bober1982
    bober1982 6 August 2020 10: 51 New
    +3
    The article may be curious, but very confusing.
    The author does not quite correctly understand what classical liberalism is, and this is, first of all, the suppression of everything collective, the denial of human nature, disregard and even hatred of the majority, of their interests.
    Well, since this very majority begins to resist, classical liberalism is degenerating into the most unthinkable forms, right up to fascism.
  16. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 August 2020 10: 52 New
    13
    It is not in vain that I devoted so much space to common truths that are known to educated people at least superficially.

    Alas, the author very strongly mixed common truths with his own fantasies ...
    At least write an article-answer
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 6 August 2020 11: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      At least write an article-answer
      I'm afraid you will get confused to answer hi
    2. CT-55_11-9009
      CT-55_11-9009 6 August 2020 13: 24 New
      +4
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Alas, the author very strongly mixed common truths with his own fantasies ...
      At least write an article-answer

      And what, I would very much like to read your analysis of this nonsense.
      1. Financier
        Financier 6 August 2020 13: 36 New
        10
        I support. The answer is needed. I am sure that many forum users on the site want to see the answer to this article. hi
        1. depressant
          depressant 6 August 2020 15: 01 New
          +7
          I support it too. To decide, you need to figure it out. And then St. Petrov got tired of counting me as a liberal. By the way, your signs of the current Russian liberal can be used.
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 6 August 2020 17: 42 New
            +3
            And then St. Petrov got sick of counting me among the liberals.
            ... And he has all the liberals who do not agree with his general line and the line of the "unnamed" ... laughing
          2. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 6 August 2020 21: 46 New
            +2
            Quote: depressant
            And then St. Petrov got sick of counting me among the liberals.

            Petrov, in my opinion, got started on the topic of Ukrainophobia. He already writes in semi-Russian-semi-Ukrainian everywhere. I remember some American guy with a similar syndrome, who ended up leaping out of the window shouting "The Russians are coming" request
    3. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 15: 41 New
      12
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      At least write an article-answer

      It would be interesting to read. I think that the people on the site support you in the possible writing of an answer. I am also for your response to this article. hi
  17. MBRSS
    MBRSS 6 August 2020 10: 53 New
    10
    "Why will I always defend this power, no matter how shitty it is" - as an alternative title for the article. And what does the liberals have to do with it if there is no elementary justice and legality in the country?
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 6 August 2020 11: 11 New
      -4
      Quote: MBRBS
      And what does the liberals have to do with it if there is no elementary justice and legality in the country?

      If you are not satisfied with existing laws, this does not mean that they do not exist.

      Even in the Jungle there is a "Law of the Jungle", the first rule of which is: "Where you fell asleep, there they ate."
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 6 August 2020 12: 49 New
        -1
        justice - court based on law (laws), legality - decision-making in accordance with the adopted laws .. WHERE did you see that Michael does not like the laws and he says that they are bad?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 6 August 2020 13: 02 New
          -2
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          WHERE did you see that Mikhail is not satisfied with the laws and he says that they are bad?

          In this quote of him: "... if in the country NO elementary justice and legality? "
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 6 August 2020 15: 27 New
            +2
            Let me explain .. you are probably very far from jurisprudence .. He does not say that the laws are bad, but that those that exist are not being applied correctly and as expected .. Laws, justice and legality are 3 different concepts, although from one opera .. justice is the application of existing laws correctly within the framework of legality ..
          2. Revival
            Revival 6 August 2020 16: 13 New
            +2
            So he apparently says that they are judged as they should, to the one "who needs it", and not according to the very laws written
      2. Vladimir B.
        Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 15: 27 New
        15
        Quote: Boris55
        Even in the Jungle there is a "Law of the Jungle", the first rule of which is: "Where you fell asleep, there they ate."

        The same law as under today's Russian capitalism, in which we live.
    2. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 15: 28 New
      11
      Quote: MBRBS
      And what does the liberals have to do with it if there is no elementary justice and legality in the country?

      Someone must be guilty wink
  18. Eugen alpine
    Eugen alpine 6 August 2020 10: 55 New
    -7
    Respect to the author! Great article.
  19. hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 6 August 2020 11: 01 New
    +8
    Communists, on the other hand, view private property as a way to deprive a certain part of society, the most vulnerable, of these guarantees. A person sometimes finds himself in situations where funds are needed, for example, illness or death of loved ones, and then he sells his property for next to nothing. Thus, a wealthy minority appears. And the majority of the people are left without social guarantees.

    Did the author understand at least what he said? This is when the communists took property for treatment for the sake of a handful of moneybags?
  20. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 6 August 2020 11: 03 New
    -1
    We still have a hybrid of feudal and Stalinist mentality in the heads of many people - so I'm not surprised that the author doesn't like liberal ideas. On a chain and in a collar, when a wise party or a leader "takes care" of you in everything calmer and more stable, and most importantly, how old is it!
  21. bulava
    bulava 6 August 2020 11: 07 New
    +2
    We already had liberals in the 90s. In fact, it turned out that the liberal economy = chaos and chaos. This does not suit us. What is good in a European country the size of the Penza region is bad for such a huge country like ours. And, by the way, we will have more democracy than in some countries that today's liberals pray for. In particular, one of the most important is that noisy liberal characters can leave our country at any time without any obstacles. They will even be deliciously fed on the plane of the Russian company Aeroflot.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 6 August 2020 12: 44 New
      +3
      In the 90s, there were thieves and robbers in the first place, and their declared political orientation did not matter at all, because they were just different flags over the same gang ..
      1. bulava
        bulava 6 August 2020 13: 24 New
        +2
        I agree, but when the authorities were asked the question "why is this?" They covered up their bankruptcy with democracy and liberalism. With one hand, the monument to Solzhenitsyn was opened, and with the other, factories and plants were derbani. That's the whole point.
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 6 August 2020 15: 12 New
          +2
          I agree, it's just that they were neither liberals, nor communists, nor fetishists .. ordinary riffers ..
        2. Vladimir B.
          Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 15: 16 New
          12
          Quote: bulava
          The monument to Solzhenitsyn was opened with one hand, and the plants and factories derbanili with the other

          Russian liberalism bears little resemblance to that liberalism, which for the most part fights for the expansion of rights and freedoms. Russian liberalism has a set of features peculiar only to it, which separates it from the normal liberalism that is found in progressive societies. At its core, Russian liberalism is freedom for oligarchs and caveman anti-communism.
    2. Financier
      Financier 6 August 2020 13: 40 New
      +9
      Quote: bulava
      We already had liberals in the 90s.

      They still remain, they have not gone anywhere.
      1. bulava
        bulava 6 August 2020 14: 19 New
        +2
        yes, there is, some have changed their shoes successfully
  22. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 6 August 2020 11: 13 New
    +5
    The author can answer the question - what is freedom?
    Author, tell me the difference between this - = Remember what liberal politicians urge us to do? To the fulfillment of their liberal programs. Note, not to what the majority of the people want, but to what the part that supports the liberals wants. Whose freedom were they promoting? Freedom to implement your own ideas! =
    and with this - = And I have enough brains to study the experience of others and implement in myself what suits me. Not how one should live correctly, but exactly what suits me! =
  23. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 6 August 2020 11: 14 New
    +2
    Putin calls himself a liberal precisely because he knows what liberalism is deeply enough, and not like most of those who consider themselves liberals. He just studied well in his time. I also studied.
    That is, Putin is a good liberal, not like bad liberals ... but a liberal! And at the end
    Why am I not a liberal and never will be

    Based on the logic of the article, it turns out that the author is against Putin ?! wassat
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 6 August 2020 11: 30 New
      +4
      Based on the logic of the article, it turns out that the author is against Putin ?!
      ... The author is just for social liberalism, like Putin, but against the ersatz liberalism, and he will never be a liberal ... What's not clear here ... Everything is logical laughing
      1. Vladimir B.
        Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 16: 59 New
        14
        Quote: parusnik
        The author is just for social liberalism, like Putin, but against the ersatz liberalism, and a liberal, he will never be

        Liberalism whatever you call it, it will always be liberalism. It's the same with a person, if the author is for social liberalism, then he is a liberal. And no other is given.
    2. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
      Kuzmich Sibiryakov 6 August 2020 11: 38 New
      0
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      Putin calls himself a liberal precisely because he knows what liberalism is deeply enough, and not like most of those who consider themselves liberals. He just studied well in his time. I also studied.
      That is, Putin is a good liberal, not like bad liberals ... but a liberal! And at the end
      Why am I not a liberal and never will be

      Based on the logic of the article, it turns out that the author is against Putin ?! wassat

      Are you a liberal? If - YES, then you must understand that a liberal is never AGAINST, but FOR. But FOR YOURS.
    3. Financier
      Financier 6 August 2020 13: 45 New
      +8
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      Putin is a good liberal, not like bad liberals ... but a liberal

      Quote: Stirbjorn
      second against Putin ?!

      It's just that the author is hot and bad about the opposition, and to any bully
    4. depressant
      depressant 6 August 2020 15: 30 New
      +6
      No, the Author is simply discouraging Putin from admitting Putin himself inadvertently that he, Putin, is a liberal. The otmazyvanie is especially relevant at this acute internal political moment, when the image of a liberal throughout the country has finally acquired an unsightly black color. Apparently, the Author believes that by throwing a veil over the President, woven of cunning ideological subtleties and tricks, he will force us to believe that behind it is hidden the shining face of the father of the nation, the defender of the orphan and the poor. Yes, only an unimportant weaver from the Author.
    5. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 17: 00 New
      12
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      Based on the logic of the article

      Logic? In my opinion, the author himself got confused in his logic.
  24. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
    Kuzmich Sibiryakov 6 August 2020 11: 25 New
    -1
    “In this fact, the whole essence of Russian liberalism of the kind that I am talking about is expressed. First, what is liberalism, if we speak at all, if not an attack (rational or erroneous, this is another question) on the existing order of things? Well, so my fact is that Russian liberalism is not an attack on the existing order of things, but an attack on the very essence of our things, on things themselves, and not on order alone, not on Russian orders, but on the very Russia. My liberal has come to the point that he denies Russia itself, that is, hate walks and beats his mother. Every unfortunate and unsuccessful Russian fact excites laughter and almost delight in him. He hates folk customs, Russian history, everything. If there is an excuse for him, except that he does not understand what he is doing, and he takes his hatred of Russia for the most fruitful liberalism (oh, you often meet with us a liberal who is applauded by the rest, and who, in essence, is the most ridiculous, most stupid and dangerous conservative, himself does not know that!). This hatred of Russia, not so long ago, was taken by other liberals almost as a true love of our country and boasted that they saw better than others what it should consist of; but now they have become more frank and even the words "love of the fatherland" have begun to be ashamed, even the concept has been expelled and eliminated as harmful and insignificant. "
    F.M. Dostoevsky.
    1. depressant
      depressant 6 August 2020 16: 08 New
      +3
      And how can we not remember the wonderful modern writer Sergei Tarmashev, his book Hotel "Oyunsu". From the first lines - an accurate description of the Russian liberal who has grown up, who is infinitely alien to the bulk of the population of Russia. Putin once chose such people for his travel companions, he did not choose us. Including the Author. This was the reason why the article first made me feel awkward and then ridiculed. They rob us, we are not created jobs, they do not allow us to create them on our own, there is an offensive of foreign monopolies on us as a labor force, we are being replaced by guest workers, they are deceiving us, and here we are invited to impressively speculate on what ideological considerations are useful for the state. It's time to think about yourself, about your own ideology. Otherwise they will trample. We don't have a common platform. We are not them. They are not us. Putin is not with us, he is with them. You can't wash a black dog white.
      1. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
        Kuzmich Sibiryakov 6 August 2020 18: 29 New
        -2
        Quote: depressant
        And how can we not remember the wonderful modern writer Sergei Tarmashev, his book Hotel "Oyunsu". From the first lines - an accurate description of the Russian liberal who has grown up, who is infinitely alien to the bulk of the population of Russia. Putin once chose such people for his travel companions, he did not choose us. Including the Author. This was the reason why the article first made me feel awkward and then ridiculed. They rob us, we are not created jobs, they do not allow us to create them on our own, there is an offensive of foreign monopolies on us as a labor force, we are being replaced by guest workers, they are deceiving us, and here we are invited to impressively speculate on what ideological considerations are useful for the state. It's time to think about yourself, about your own ideology. Otherwise they will trample. We don't have a common platform. We are not them. They are not us. Putin is not with us, he is with them. You can't wash a black dog white.

        Explain. Do you think government participation in the production of everything and for everyone is normal? When should the state decisively deal with everything? From your message, you think so. Putin surrounded, Putin does not do, does not bake pies, does not sew panties, does not rivet TVs ..... That is, you are for the communist method of production, again, as in the USSR, which has already proved to the whole world by its inefficiency? A kind of the USSR in miniature, in the size of Russia. Give, tell me.
        1. depressant
          depressant 6 August 2020 20: 24 New
          +3
          Good evening, Kuzmich! ))
          I see you recently came to the site? I am very glad to my new colleague))
          And forgive me for the small remark: here it is customary for us to contact you. This is not some kind of palace ceremony, but just a tribute to politeness.
          Now for your question. There were a lot of topics that we discussed in detail in this aspect, and I have repeatedly spoken about my commitment to the evolutionary path of the country's development. The role of the state should be to formulate and strictly enforce laws that would provide such a path. I carefully read the articles on the materials of the site "Made by Us" and always sincerely rejoice at the real shifts in our economy. However, the pace of shifts is insufficient, sluggish, and the negative factors that I mentioned above are gaining momentum. This is what worries me, I do not want shocks. I believe that you and I will have time to talk about this in more detail when discussing the following articles. And today I am no longer able to. You will forgive me, won't you? ))
          1. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
            Kuzmich Sibiryakov 6 August 2020 20: 33 New
            -3
            Quote: depressant
            Good evening, Kuzmich! ))
            I see you recently came to the site? I am very glad to my new colleague))
            And forgive me for the small remark: here it is customary for us to contact you. This is not some kind of palace ceremony, but just a tribute to politeness.
            Now for your question. There were a lot of topics that we discussed in detail in this aspect, and I have repeatedly spoken about my commitment to the evolutionary path of the country's development. The role of the state should be to formulate and strictly enforce laws that would provide such a path. I carefully read the articles on the materials of the site "Made by Us" and always sincerely rejoice at the real shifts in our economy. However, the pace of shifts is insufficient, sluggish, and the negative factors that I mentioned above are gaining momentum. This is what worries me, I do not want shocks. I believe that you and I will have time to talk about this in more detail when discussing the following articles. And today I am no longer able to. You will forgive me, won't you? ))

            I forgive you.
  25. Maks1995
    Maks1995 6 August 2020 11: 26 New
    +4
    Uh ... what's this pathetic in posts lately?

    Is there a lack of propaganda?

    There are many words, not enough in essence ...

    Will there be someone? happy for him. However, to see the notorious "liberal", you have to go to Moscow, there is no one near ...

    And nobody writes something "Why I will never be a Muscovite"
    1. Financier
      Financier 6 August 2020 13: 50 New
      +9
      Quote: Max1995
      However, to see the notorious "liberal", you will have to go to Moscow, there is no one near

      good
      Quote: Max1995
      Is there a lack of propaganda?

      Looks like the rating drops sharply. You need to raise.
      1. Vladimir B.
        Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 16: 53 New
        12
        Quote: Financier
        Looks like the rating drops sharply

        If you listen to all sorts of different sociologists and statisticians, then the rating goes off scale
  26. fider
    fider 6 August 2020 11: 27 New
    +3
    Let's not distort the concept. Putin can call himself anyone. But he is not a liberal. And all his friends. And Zhirinovsky is not a liberal. And who is a real liberal, I don’t know such people in Russia.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 6 August 2020 12: 45 New
      +4
      And who is a real liberal, I don’t know such people in Russia.
      ....
      - Do you see a gopher?
      - No.
      - So I don't see. And he is. (C)
    2. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
      Kuzmich Sibiryakov 6 August 2020 18: 32 New
      -1
      Quote: fider
      Let's not distort the concept. Putin can call himself anyone. But he is not a liberal. And all his friends. And Zhirinovsky is not a liberal. And who is a real liberal, I don’t know such people in Russia.

      These bedbugs in Echo of Moscow, Rain ...
  27. Jarilo
    Jarilo 6 August 2020 11: 33 New
    +2
    Liberalism, tolerance, pluralism, the protrusion of the rights of gay minorities have led to the fact that those who do not suffer from this heresy brought the indigenous people to their knees with suppressed will.
  28. Paratrooper
    Paratrooper 6 August 2020 11: 34 New
    -2
    Thank you for the article.
  29. evgen1221
    evgen1221 6 August 2020 11: 36 New
    +2
    All the groaning about (patriots and liberals) grows out of an absolutely killed upbringing system from childhood onwards. Morality in society is difficult to change for a long time, but it needs to be done and not in an order on holidays, but constantly. Today, from the media, occupied by elites and other singers, perhaps only one guano is pouring out of the mouth and nothing really useful to society. Idiology for itself at all levels, eventually leads to the collapse of everything and everyone. The head is the main value of the state and what you put in there will grow.
  30. alone
    alone 6 August 2020 11: 38 New
    +5
    Liberals, communists, conservatives, monarchists, nationalists, patriots ...
    All this is a play on words .. We all saw how people changed their principles and ideas in a second .. How one or the other turned from a communist into a democrat or vice versa.
    First of all, you need to be an honest, decent person, who will not be silent about the problems that exist in his own country, who will not shield theft, corruption, lies for the sake of some pseudo-state interests. You can ask why? it is impossible to build a strong state on corruption. Sooner or later it will collapse .. And this applies not only to Russia. It applies to all countries. hi
  31. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 6 August 2020 11: 41 New
    +3
    He did not give a final answer as to who is Putin, a liberal in the form of an author or a pseudo-liberal. If he is a real liberal, how he positions himself, then the question is, how does this correlate with 20 million RUSSIAN CITIZENS below the poverty line or the creation of financial-oligarchic capitalism in RUSSIA, thieving, corrupt, mediocre and cynical. The classical liberal theory based on the above described by the author, with all its components, has an ultimate goal, everything for the PEOPLE with a certain positive participation of the State. We have it in our country - the majority will say NO, because the component of equality of all has been violated, in our country there is a layer of the most "equal", not everything is with freedom, there is a layer of the most "free", the position that the highest power belongs to TO THE PEOPLE, not a handful of officials, a typical example is the outpouring of the will of the referendum on the Constitution and the stupidly blurred referendum on the PENSION REFORM by the same officials. It turns out that in the remainder Putin is NOT a LIBERAL.
    1. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
      Kuzmich Sibiryakov 6 August 2020 18: 54 New
      -5
      Quotation: I.P.
      He did not give a final answer as to who is Putin, a liberal in the form of an author or a pseudo-liberal. If he is a real liberal, how he positions himself, then the question is, how does this correlate with 20 million RUSSIAN CITIZENS below the poverty line or the creation of financial-oligarchic capitalism in RUSSIA, thieving, corrupt, mediocre and cynical. The classical liberal theory based on the above described by the author, with all its components, has an ultimate goal, everything for the PEOPLE with a certain positive participation of the State. We have it in our country - the majority will say NO, because the component of equality of all has been violated, in our country there is a layer of the most "equal", not everything is with freedom, there is a layer of the most "free", the position that the highest power belongs to TO THE PEOPLE, not a handful of officials, a typical example is the outpouring of the will of the referendum on the Constitution and the stupidly blurred referendum on the PENSION REFORM by the same officials. It turns out that in the remainder Putin is NOT a LIBERAL.

      Oligarchic capitalism.
      The communists taught several generations of our people that everything around them is common. What the people own ... And the people believed. Not realizing that, in fact, the official was engaged in everything. In order to get the right to manage the property, you need to enter this clan. Through joining the ranks of Mind, Honor and Conscience of our era. He managed without having the right to own it. Having confused the budgets of the STATE and its own, the CPSU disposed of the STATE property as its own. This, for example, the Yabloko party, or the Beer Lovers party (we have such) sent billions of the state budget to their allied country Lib .... y. Wildly? Not at all. And so that no one would have doubts about the legality of this, the Constitution was changed, with the addition of Article 6. On the role of the CPSU. Having destroyed the country with insane ideological clubs, lost the confidence of the people, the CPSU, having changed its face, suddenly became the party of power (AGAIN !!), but under a different guise. Now it is called United Russia. Nothing has changed fundamentally. As the state was a monopoly in the economy, it remained so. As the main branches of production were in the hands of officials, they remained. The private trader was allowed only to the hairdressers. travel agencies and market stalls. Competition for Russian Railways? To the state structure? Try it, dear. Competition with Roscosmos? Competition for Gazprom? Competition to Rossvooruzhenie? Why somewhere private traders can rivet tanks, but not here? And, after all, not at all the worst. Will we put things in order with the Cosmos? I think no. Tyrili and will. Why? Yes, it's very simple, they scam from the budget. That is, from the state. That is, from the common fund. But Musk won't be able to steal from himself. Despite all his genius. Stuck out of the budget? -Yes please! Easy. DO NOT STEAL FROM YOURSELF. Well, it would be healthy - every thing, in Russia has its own owner. And it would be practically impossible to steal. No where. No one. Never. And it would be very simple to ask for carelessness - after all, every thing would have its own owner. It is very easy to find it.
  32. Clueless
    Clueless 6 August 2020 11: 42 New
    +5
    Do you still wear pants in 2014? Petrified. Living things develop, change. Putin 2020 is slightly different from Putin 2014.


    Well, yes .. the first one was responsible for his words. And the second master of the word, gave the word, took the word.
  33. 2 Level Advisor
    2 Level Advisor 6 August 2020 11: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: Pavel73
    I only care about one question: is it better now than it was 10 years ago, or worse?

    1. Well, answer this question, why did you keep silent?
    2.And in a well-living society of revolutions do not need to be afraid, no one will go to the uprising, if he is already well .. at least support everyone .. DO NOT WILL! People are so arranged .. As they say, they don't look for good from good .. but from bad ...
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 6 August 2020 12: 03 New
      -3
      Quote: 2 level advisor
      And in a well-living society, there is no need to be afraid of revolutions ... WILL NOT GO!

      But what about the lace panties? belay

      There will always be those who will inflate the elephant out of a fly, and there will always be those who will lead the elephant.
      "In my opinion, the division of life phenomena into great and small, the reduction of the great to the small, the elevation of the small to the great - this is the true mockery of life" ME Saltykov-Shchedrin.
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 6 August 2020 12: 38 New
        0
        I didn’t say that there will be no marginals, there will, of course, be found in any country .. but the revolution will not work, because it needs massive support from broad strata of the population, and not a handful of hired workers and pranksters ..
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 6 August 2020 13: 05 New
          -6
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          but the revolution just won't work, because it needs massive support from broad strata of the population

          Have you seen the results of the last public opinion poll (voting on amendments)?

          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 6 August 2020 15: 22 New
            +4
            You know, your schedule just says that, apparently, there is no unity in the country .. which means that everything is not so good .. half of the country there are no marginals, even in theory ..

            P.S. I do not support your division of the country into friends and enemies, who are enemies only because they do not agree with you .. For me, this is not the most adequate division of the country ..
          2. andrew42
            andrew42 6 August 2020 16: 07 New
            0
            The main part is missing in this diagram. For which Russia? They now have 2 in fact: "Russia of oligarchs and lured people", and "Russia of all the rest (people are new oil)." Without this main detail, the Diagramma is meaningless, and even meaningless (devilishly mocking in relation to the "herd" being grazed).
        2. Vladimir B.
          Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 14: 52 New
          14
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          the revolution just won't work, because it needs massive support from broad strata of the population

          Lenin formulated and singled out three main objective and subjective signs that describe the crisis situation that is developing in society on the eve of the revolution:
          1. The leaders cannot rule in the old way - the impossibility of the ruling class to maintain its rule unchanged.
          2. Nizami do not want to live in the old way - a sharp exacerbation above the usual needs and misfortunes of the oppressed classes and their desire to change their lives for the better.
          3. A significant increase in the activity of the masses, attracted both by the entire situation of the crisis and by the "top" themselves to an independent historical action.
        3. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
          Kuzmich Sibiryakov 6 August 2020 20: 39 New
          -1
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          I didn’t say that there will be no marginals, there will, of course, be found in any country .. but the revolution will not work, because it needs massive support from broad strata of the population, and not a handful of hired workers and pranksters ..

          You are deeply mistaken. Revolutions are always made in capitals, where broad popular support simply cannot be by definition. Broad support is needed later - when there is a civil war, stabbing and rivers of blood flow. For a revolution, all you need is a maidan, the madness of a gang of criminals, and the hibernation of those standing nearby, who think that his hut is on the edge.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 6 August 2020 21: 20 New
            +1
            Quote: Kuzmich Sibiryakov
            Revolutions are always made in capitals, where broad popular support simply cannot be by definition.

            Hence the famous tale about the power of the proletariat.
          2. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 6 August 2020 23: 05 New
            0
            This is probably why we have a capital and lives on an order of magnitude better than others .. BUT .. there would be no power so concentrated in the capital, maybe there would be no options ..
            though! I meant more that there will be no civil war - if everything is fine in the country - yes, these outcasts from the capital - the country itself will trample ..
            Is it not enough revolutions that ended in failure? but the successful ones were actually only! in countries where there was dissatisfaction with the power of the broad masses ..
            1. Kuzmich Sibiryakov
              Kuzmich Sibiryakov 10 August 2020 15: 37 New
              -1
              Quote: 2 level advisor
              This is probably why we have a capital and lives on an order of magnitude better than others .. BUT .. there would be no power so concentrated in the capital, maybe there would be no options ..
              though! I meant more that there will be no civil war - if everything is fine in the country - yes, these outcasts from the capital - the country itself will trample ..
              Is it not enough revolutions that ended in failure? but the successful ones were actually only! in countries where there was dissatisfaction with the power of the broad masses ..

              Have they not yet understood that the disaffected masses on the periphery do not participate either in the revolution or in the defense of power? Therefore, a bunch of villains manage to make a brawl. The disaffected masses join the war later. Moreover, not all.
              The duration of the civil war in Russia, doesn't it prove that the forces were almost equal? If the MASSES were active, they would crush the defenders of the unwanted regime in a week. There is no need to talk about the help of the interventionists. They never took part in hostilities directly against revolutionary-minded people.
  34. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 6 August 2020 11: 53 New
    +4
    We are trying the liberalism that is in Western countries and the one that they offer for export to us. And these are two different things.
  35. Baloo
    Baloo 6 August 2020 11: 53 New
    +4
    Quote: parusnik
    Ersatz liberals, probably ... laughing

    The task of one is to make Nikolai abdicate, the task of the other is collapse. Both left on time. One in the water, the other for the Atlantic puddle.
  36. Campanella
    Campanella 6 August 2020 11: 53 New
    -2
    Liberals, democrats ..conservatives, neoconservatives ... how many theories are heaped up around a person that explain something there .. But for the most part all this good is used to manipulate a person to divide him and, accordingly, rule.
    The world is not black and white, and a person is not divided only into good and bad.
    How does a person live? Sun, water, air, food. This is what he needs. And no freedom is included in this list.
    So why does the world revolve around the idea of ​​freedom? And because this vague concept makes it possible to solve a lot of purely personal issues to the detriment of public ones.
    1. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 14: 49 New
      11
      Quote: Campanella
      And no freedom is included in this list.

      If you don't need freedom, then you agree to be a slave? wassat Or I misunderstood you?
      1. Campanella
        Campanella 6 August 2020 15: 43 New
        +2
        Freedom, of course, is necessary for everyone!
        But, the modern world is so arranged that you are any slave or for a soup or for a meager salary or something else. Living in a society, you give up part of your freedoms for the opportunity to use its benefits.
        And the struggle for freedom is generally an absolutely abstract thing.
        Within the framework of ideology, I like, say, socialism, but in the West, which is considered the most advanced in terms of freedoms, it is not taboo, for some reason sucked out of the finger ...
        Freedom is the privilege of the strong above all, therefore it is an eternal battle for the crane.
        And someone very successfully converts this struggle into something tangible.
        Therefore, I do not see the message in the struggle, but I see the point in the progressive work in this direction.
        1. Vladimir B.
          Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 15: 46 New
          12
          Got it. I misunderstood you initially hi
  37. Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 6 August 2020 11: 55 New
    +4
    What do the English and Russian liberals have in common? Both adore England and hate Russia.
    1. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 14: 45 New
      15
      Quote: AKuzenka
      What do the English and Russian liberals have in common?

      In patriotism towards their country of the first and antipatriotism towards their country of the second.
  38. Boris55
    Boris55 6 August 2020 11: 56 New
    -2
    As an addition to the article. USSR VP: "Liberalism is the enemy of freedom."
    https://storage.googleapis.com/dotu-154621.appspot.com/20151221_Liberalizm.rar
  39. roosei
    roosei 6 August 2020 12: 42 New
    0
    “When there was a realization that freedom is impossible without private property. An empty stomach does not contribute to philosophical reflection.
    The third element grew out of the first two. If a person is independent, fed, has his own land, home, he has the right to reflect on the transience of the world. Human mind as the value of the world!
    This is what is called classical liberalism. An ideology that preaches freedom, private property and human reason as the greatest values ​​of humanity. "... It turns out that whoever has more private property is freer, more moral, and morally clean ... The author does not understand what private property is the source of most crimes, let at least compare the statistics of the USSR and modern Russia on the most serious crimes.
  40. roosei
    roosei 6 August 2020 12: 43 New
    +2
    When the realization appeared that freedom is impossible without private property. An empty belly is not conducive to philosophical reflection.

    The third element grew out of the first two. If a person is independent, fed, has his own land, home, he has the right to reflect on the transience of the world. Human mind as the value of the world!

    This is what is called classical liberalism. An ideology that preaches freedom, private property and human reason as the greatest values ​​of humanity.

    It turns out that whoever has more private property is more free, moral, and morally clean ... The author does not understand that it is private property that is the source of most crimes, let at least compare the statistics of the USSR and modern Russia on the most serious crimes.
  41. Tagan
    Tagan 6 August 2020 13: 57 New
    -2
    Quote: aglet
    deflection counted

    Do you, wriggling like in a frying pan, depending on the situation, talk about it?
  42. Revival
    Revival 6 August 2020 14: 12 New
    +4
    I wanted to comment in detail on all this distortion, twisting and the like, but this whole treatise should be written in the comments, since the article is one continuous distortion of facts, twisting.
    Unfortunately, this is exactly the case when the signature under the article is like a stigma ...

    Just, for example,
    1) "Where are your three Volga?"
    There will be no revisions of the results of the privatization, who said?
    Or Chubais and have already been convicted?
    Not!? What is the difference then?
    2) "they don't need your mind."
    Who needs it? To that "aunt" who threw in bundles of ballots from under the camera during the voting? Does this "aunt" keep us reasonable?
    1. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 14: 41 New
      16
      Quote: Revival
      What is the difference then?

      In the presentation of information. Those destroyed, these types of collectors. And the essence is the same.
  43. Engineer
    Engineer 6 August 2020 14: 14 New
    +2
    And I have enough brains to study the experience of others and implement in myself what suits me. Not how to live correctly, but exactly what suits me!

    What has the author introduced to himself that he is so flattened?
    1. Vladimir B.
      Vladimir B. 6 August 2020 14: 38 New
      14
      Propaganda overeat yes or watched the TV, although it's the same thing
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 6 August 2020 15: 03 New
        0
        We urgently need to inform him that if he does not stop introducing himself all sorts of crap, he will become not even a liberal, but something worse.
  44. Tagan
    Tagan 6 August 2020 14: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    We still have a hybrid of feudal and Stalinist mentality in the heads of many people - so I'm not surprised that the author doesn't like liberal ideas. On a chain and in a collar, when a wise party or a leader "takes care" of you in everything calmer and more stable, and most importantly, how old is it!

    The trouble is that "liberal ideas" are very different from the liberal deeds of the local "liberals". In other words, d.u.c.m.o in a beautiful wrapper. Is there evidence to the contrary? Or should they be given recognition in advance?)))
    "On a chain and in a collar ..." Then how did you escape the collar by being born with it? Or did you inherit freedom?
  45. Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 6 August 2020 14: 31 New
    -3
    Nice article by Alexander! A bit confusing, but the point is clear. The bottom line is that Russian "liberals" are not liberals at all, but a few liberal radicals who defend WESTERN "liberalism" and are trying to drag the whole of Russia down this slippery path (in fact, they are just enemies of Russia, Russians and agents of the West, as it were nor tried to hide and disguise it). What they fail and, I hope, never succeed!
    1. Vladimir Mashkov
      Vladimir Mashkov 6 August 2020 16: 13 New
      0
      Dislikes to my comment are VERY revealing! They show VERY well who exactly dug in on the VO under the name of "Russian patriots" !!! yes yes yes
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 6 August 2020 18: 24 New
        0
        You have some strange reasoning ... Whoever is not with you is against you ... I remember this already happened ...
  46. Asad
    Asad 6 August 2020 14: 50 New
    0
    The main fighter against the liberals, Soloviev all vacation at work! Waiting for the border to open to fly to the dacha!
  47. shinobi
    shinobi 6 August 2020 15: 13 New
    +3
    Personal freedom in a society, regardless of its structure, is impossible by default, since this society, for its own survival and the survival of the majority of its members, will impose restrictions on any activity that is harmful to society, especially if this personal freedom does not imply any obligations to society and its individual members. Our liberals are ordinary thieves and thugs hiding behind utopian ideas and beautiful words in order to look decent in their own eyes.
    1. depressant
      depressant 6 August 2020 19: 31 New
      +4
      Well said, colleague! True and to the point.
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 7 August 2020 11: 41 New
      +1
      Personal freedom and personal non-freedom are always limited.
  48. akunin
    akunin 6 August 2020 15: 44 New
    +1
    An empty stomach is not conducive to philosophical reflection.
    and the philosophers are Stoics? most of them clearly did not overeat.
    Mind? Read the comments of liberals - and you will understand that they do not need your mind. They do not initially recognize you as an intelligent being. Just because you think differently. Even if you are the majority, you are not a decree for liberals. Anyone who thinks differently is not a decree. Only those who belong to the supporters of liberal ideas are recognized as correct.
    the same applies to "stoned" statists.
    Who in his youth was not a liberal - he has no heart, who in maturity did not become a conservative - he has no mind

    any individual (state) must move forward (develop). stop in development is death. development requires new people, new views (i.e. change of power) and the understanding that we will all turn to dust (even the president and the oligarchy), and our homeland should remain for our children and grandchildren. To paraphrase the classic: "we must love not ourselves in Russia, but Russia in ourselves" (pompous, but for sure).
  49. ont65
    ont65 6 August 2020 15: 45 New
    +3
    It is strange to ascribe features unusual for communists, and starting from afar, almost from the rebirth. Liberalism expresses the essence of the struggle between private capital and the state. And the larger the capital, the more means it has to fight the dictates of the state. Anyone! Naturally, this love of freedom is exclusively economic with a political underpinnings serving capital. It has nothing to do with the aspirations and needs of the broad masses, since serves exclusively the selfish desires of the capitalist. And therefore, liberalism should not be attached to Marxism. They have different sources.
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 6 August 2020 16: 11 New
      +3
      I support. The Liberal is first of all a Hypocrite, secondly - Gescheftmakher, and thirdly - the New Oppressor afterwards.
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 7 August 2020 10: 17 New
      +2
      What do you want from the author? He's just evolving with the party line and surviving as best he can. If tomorrow it will be necessary to justify fascism, he will boldly do it for a small price list. It is impossible to deceive the Soviet past as long as they try to distort it. Hence all these attempts to make Stalin an imperial capitalist and nonsense that state capitalism is always socialism.
  50. andrew42
    andrew42 6 August 2020 15: 51 New
    +1
    The terms "Liberal" and "Liberalism" are a classic example of how, by chattering at first, the meaning of a term is blurred, then a purposeful semantic drift in the right direction is made, and ultimately the substitution of concepts (often with diametrically opposite essence). I believe that "Liberal" is not some kind of full-fledged stable position / belief system. This is position A) temporary B) relative (relative to something). Any "liberal" has the goal of weakening the current rigidity of management of the socio-economic system. But why? - Yes, then, in order to subsequently impose their own desired system of government, which, over time, surprisingly again degenerates into a dictatorship. It's like in that Vietnamese cartoon fairy tale about "Dragon": - Why did you come? - I came to free people! - and what are your servants carrying in those bags! “They carry my royal robes. I will put on them when I seize power! Thus, “liberality” and “liberal” is a meaningless concept, if it is not specified against what exactly he “is“ liberal. ”Take Tsarist Russia: even Ulyanov-Lenin is a“ liberal. ”And what is it? - DELIVERY of the proletariat from the Tsarist oppression and capitalist exploitation! Next, a socio-economic model is proposed, where the collective workers "pay" for everything, and Stalin comes to fairly thin out the "new red nobility" so that the system is somehow viable and capable of development. The same is true - the bourgeois revolutions against the feudal system: the exploitation of the villain by the seigneur was replaced by the much more vicious exploitation of the wage laborer by the capitalist. (I deliberately do not mention the technological order - this is beyond the scope of the question of "liberalism".) In our time, the same Putin agrees to the point that he is a "liberal." but it is interesting from WHOM he is currently freeing and WHOM does he want to free? -This is a great mystery. It is possible to "free" the children from their parents (we already have them) and give them to the "good-natured juvenile". This is “liberal.” interests.
    1. ont65
      ont65 7 August 2020 19: 02 New
      0
      Putin honestly describes himself as a liberal. It seems that this is a kind of contradiction with the highest public office, but if you evaluate his activities in his post, it turns out that it is imaginary. - Everything that a liberal could do as a leader of the state for capital, he does with a bang. - No revisions of the results of privatization, restoration of public deposits, raising the retirement age, exemption from liability for economic crimes, pumping budget funds to private entrepreneurs under the state cooperation program, introducing the labor code in its current edition, reducing the role of trade unions to zero, nullifying state quality control, etc. etc. - Little evidence of his veracity?
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 8 August 2020 14: 57 New
        0
        That's it. And I'm talking about the same. And in order not to be so scary to ordinary citizens, all sorts of "knowledgeable" people begin to drive a blizzard about the "secret plan", KOB and other "dead water".