Military Review

"Octopus" is an "old technology": India is looking for a replacement for Russian tanks in the mountains

46

Sprut-SDM1



In July of this year, the Indian Ministry of Defense in an expedited manner ordered the creation of light tanks to counter possible attacks by Chinese troops, numbering more than 20 fighters on the border with Ladakh and equipped with tanks, artillery, air defense systems and road construction equipment.

Russian tanks are not for mountains


As indicated by the Indian edition of Business Standard, in this region, the Chinese have relied on a new light tank - a small, maneuverable and versatile ZTQ-105, also known as Type 15. At the same time, the Indian contingent in Ladakh has only three tank regiments, which together number 150 old tanks T-72.

With about 42 tons [weight], they are designed for the plains. Driving on mountain roads is slow and often impossible. Given the limited height [of the hull] and the vertical guidance angles of its heavy cannon, the T-72 cannot engage targets on hilltops and valleys

- writes the edition.

At the same time, another main tank of the Indian army, the T-90S "Bhishma", which is "too heavy for mountainous, forest and other hard-to-reach areas," is also not suitable for confronting the Chinese troops. In this regard, the military and industry are looking for a replacement for Russian tanks in the mountain theater.

To eliminate the costly import of light tanks, the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) intends to achieve the creation of its own light tank for use in the mountains and in the jungle.


K-9 Vajra


Octopus old age or South Korean lobby?


As the publication explains, Indian, British and American troops used tanks during the fight against the Japanese in northeastern India and Burma during World War II: light M3 / M3A1 Stuart and medium M3 Grant and M4 Sherman. It was the Shermans who drove the Pakistani troops back at the Zod-Jila pass. Against China in 1962, the army used French AMX-13 light tanks at the Battle of Gurung Hill near Pangong Tso. In the 1971 campaign in Bangladesh, French AMX-13s and Soviet PT-76s "played a prominent role in the Battle of Garibpur."

DRDO expects two variants of a light tank for 18 months. The first involves the creation of a 34-35-ton machine by installing a 105-mm John Cockerill turret on the body of the K-9 Vajra self-propelled artillery system with a 1000 hp MTU engine, optimized for high altitudes. The second variant, weighing 38 tons, retains the K-9 Vajra hull and MTU engine, but borrows the gun turret of the T-90C Bhishma tank, which is already in use by the army.

K-9 Vajra is being assembled by order of the Indian army (which is expected to be closed in 2021) at local facilities under a South Korean license. It will have to be extended if the chassis of this product becomes the basis for an Indian light tank.

DRDO is confident that any of these hybrid tanks would be a better option compared to the Russian Sprut-SDM1 under consideration by the Ministry of Defense.

- indicates the Business Standard.

As explained, "Sprut" is "a tank destroyer with old technology, none of the countries bought it." The Russian army itself acquired only 24 units, they are not in regular production, which makes it difficult to deliver them quickly. In addition, you will have to contact the Russian Federation for spare parts, overhaul and future modernization.

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  1. BASHAR ASAD
    BASHAR ASAD 5 August 2020 05: 38
    +7
    Tank destroyer with old technology. What a succinct statement
    1. Maz
      Maz 5 August 2020 07: 35
      18
      Bollywood, TV series: "Arming the invincible army of Krishna" ... 125 season. Episode 5 - "Dancing with Tanks"
      1. Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
        11
        Quote: Maz
        Bollywood, TV series: "Arming the invincible army of Krishna" ... 125 season. Episode 5 - "Dancing with Tanks"


        Indeed, these dancers have already got it. And they dance badly, always something prevents them from dancing
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 11 August 2020 14: 00
      -1
      Why not? SU-100, Hetzer, Jagdtiger - tank destroyers with very outdated technology.
      Octopus uses less outdated solutions, but not the most modern, as the Indians want.
  2. VyacheSeymour
    VyacheSeymour 5 August 2020 05: 43
    -16 qualifying.
    We will see how commentators change their shoes on the fly ...
  3. Radikal
    Radikal 5 August 2020 05: 57
    +4
    "Octopus" is an "old technology": India is looking for a replacement for Russian tanks in the mountains
    But does anyone say that this is a modern AFV? winked
  4. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 5 August 2020 06: 15
    +8
    (DRDO) intends to achieve the creation of its own light tank for use in the mountains and in the jungle.
    Yes, how to go hunting, so feed the dogs. Indian classics.
    Octopus is "a tank destroyer with old technology, none of the countries bought it." The Russian army itself acquired only 24 units,
    Well, for the Airborne Forces, we don't need it anymore, yet. Egypt, Syria, Libya, Algeria do not fight in the mountains.
    DRDO is confident that any of these hybrid tanks would be a better option compared to the Russian Sprut-SDM1 under consideration by the Ministry of Defense.
    fool crying
    Two variants of the light tank are expected for 18 months. The first involves the creation of a 34-35-ton vehicle. The second variant with a weight of 38 tons
    Are you sure this is a light tank for the mountains of Tibet? Will he ride and fight? request And China will wait 1,5 years for the end of the project and 2,5 years of testing, fine-tuning, manufacturing, training ... fool
  5. Grits
    Grits 5 August 2020 06: 19
    15
    As they say, walk around the market - look. And if you find it, won't you have to buy spare parts from the seller? Or is it only Russian tanks that break down?
    But if they want to create their own tank, all their numerous gods will help them. Have you finished your "Arzhdun" yet?
  6. rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 5 August 2020 06: 23
    +5
    Hindus work on the principle - I blinded him from what happened, but at the exit, if something happens, there will be a mixture of a bulldog with a rhinoceros, it would be better if they were engaged in dancing
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 5 August 2020 07: 29
      +1
      Quote: rotkiv04
      Hindus work on the principle - I blinded him from what was

      So what ? Fast and plus possible modularity
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 5 August 2020 06: 33
    11
    "Octopus" does not have a fixture for festive garlands !!! It is not suitable for India! And he does not know how to dance in the parade, and does not sing ... wassat
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 5 August 2020 06: 49
      +4
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And he does not know how to dance in the parade, and does not sing ...

      A very controversial position. In good, kind hands, she will dance, definitely. Yes, and will sing, if pogazyat right. repeat
  8. svp67
    svp67 5 August 2020 06: 49
    +6
    I would not be surprised that with such a Korean lobby, they will soon abandon our ships, tanks and aircraft ... in favor of Korean ones.
    And so I don't see anything innovative not in the body, not in the mobility of the Korean car ...
    "Octopus" is smaller, lighter and more mobile
    1. Holgerton
      Holgerton 5 August 2020 07: 36
      +4
      The Octopus may be smaller, lighter and more mobile, but because of this it has problems with armor protection. Considering the past experience of the Soviet army in the mountains of Afghanistan and the almost complete uselessness of the ability to swim, the current "Octopus" will burn as well as the BTR / BMP at one time and the story will repeat itself with the BMP-2, which was converted into the BMP-2D on the fly.
      In its current form, the Sprut cannot be allowed into the mountains, since serious bulletproof armor protection is present only in the frontal sector ± 40 °, and improved mine protection is also required.
      1. BDRM 667
        BDRM 667 5 August 2020 09: 00
        +5
        Quote: Holgerton
        the current "Sprut" will burn in the same way as the armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle at one time

        Knocked out yes , and burned yes but name the samples invulnerable techniques that, under certain circumstances, skill (skill, dexterity) and the availability of means of destruction, cannot be knocked out, burned, destroyed ...
      2. Hermit21
        Hermit21 5 August 2020 09: 01
        +6
        Like an Indian item will have normal armor, or what? On the basis of SDM-1, you can make a full-fledged light tank by removing the hydropneumatic suspension and increasing protection. You can also develop additional kits with booking. But even now SD or SDM-1 surpasses any serial competitor in firepower.
        1. Holgerton
          Holgerton 5 August 2020 12: 47
          0
          And where did you see the words about Indian things?
          I said, as it is, that SD, that SDM1, are now not suitable for the role of a light tank, in particular in the mountains, where the Soviet army still suffered from insufficient armor protection of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles.
          1. Hermit21
            Hermit21 5 August 2020 13: 18
            +1
            So the Indians want to pile on the K-9 chassis. For the agreed 1,5 years, no major changes are made to the building, respectively, the booking will be so-so. And in general, what is there with the armor of the competitors of the "Octopus", which you can offer right now? Not very good either, right?
            1. Holgerton
              Holgerton 5 August 2020 20: 34
              -1
              Your comments to me are very amusing)
              Again, where did you see my laudatory / critical words about the competitors of "Octopus", hmm?)))
              Please do not expose your speculations ala "if everyone is bad, then why is our swamp worse" for my statements hi
              1. Hermit21
                Hermit21 6 August 2020 07: 22
                +1
                Everything is relative. If "Octopus" is criticized for insufficient booking, you need to look at the protection for objectivity and honesty serial competitors. Suddenly it turns out that they are not much better and then the thesis that the "Octopus" does not suit the Indians due to insufficient booking is groundless
  9. newcomer
    newcomer 5 August 2020 06: 59
    +3
    While the Dardo rules the Indian defense industry, there will be no sense. This office is tightly tied to the Yankees.
  10. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 5 August 2020 07: 10
    +3
    Well, they would say right away, we want a tank on an existing platform. So that there are no problems with supplies and repairs. Why make a garden about outdated equipment, about which they know nothing, moreover.
  11. Pavel57
    Pavel57 5 August 2020 07: 59
    +1
    Will they buy a tower with a cannon from Russia?
  12. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 5 August 2020 08: 15
    0
    Yes, one has only to put the noise-headed Indians in the forefront of Bollywood actors, so they all will win. In a dance, at one stroke.
    1. BDRM 667
      BDRM 667 5 August 2020 09: 46
      +3
      Quote: 7,62x54
      Yes, one has only to put the noise-headed Indians in the forefront of Bollywood actors, so they all will win. In a dance, at one stroke.

      yes laughing

  13. sen
    sen 5 August 2020 08: 25
    +5
    Our light tank with a 57 mm cannon was being developed.
    http://btvt.narod.ru/4/76/pt76m.htm
    There is "Derivation-Air Defense" with large elevation angles - just for the mountains ..
    The armor only needs to be strengthened
    Let them invest in joint development ..
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      5 August 2020 16: 01
      -1
      what 57 ??? they need a tank barrel, hence the chassis is taken under 100 and above
      1. sen
        sen 5 August 2020 16: 57
        +3
        Do they need a 100mm gun? My friend, who was in Afghanistan, told me that when ambushed by our tanks, they could not fire from their guns, like the 73-mm gun on the BMP-1, at the spirits at the height. And to put the D-30 howitzer on the tank, keeping the elevation angles, is problematic.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 5 August 2020 18: 17
          +1
          Quote: sen
          D-30 on the tank, while maintaining the elevation angles, is problematic.

          And the self-propelled gun "Carnation" is not a tank for the mountains? light armor, large gun elevation angles with good caliber.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 11 August 2020 10: 02
            +1
            And how many degrees does Carnation's gun go down? For mountains you need minus 15 degrees, no less.
  14. fiberboard
    fiberboard 5 August 2020 09: 03
    +3
    Fight, need a good fight with the Shaolin fighters. Then they will rush to buy everything from the MiG-21 and the Su-15, and the T-55. The Indians quickly decide everything when a roasted bird bites them in the seat.
  15. Esaul
    Esaul 5 August 2020 09: 05
    +2
    Yes, they haven't come up with anything better than elephants.
  16. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 5 August 2020 09: 23
    +1
    And why would they even need tanks where tanks are difficult to use? It is more logical to saturate the grouping in the region with ptur and light wheeled vehicles.
  17. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 5 August 2020 10: 43
    +3
    Let my colleagues correct me, but it seems to me that the tank's passability is influenced not by the mass indicator, but by the specific ground pressure exerted during movement.
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt 5 August 2020 14: 00
      +2
      Initially, the Indians talked about the fact that the road infrastructure in the mountains is not very good. Bridges may not hold up.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 11 August 2020 10: 39
      -1
      Everything is correct. Like power-to-weight ratio, it influences agility and dynamics.
  18. Constanty
    Constanty 5 August 2020 11: 51
    +1
    The second variant with a weight of 38 tons retains the K-9 Vajra hull and MTU engine, but borrows the gun turret of the T-90C Bhishma tank, which is already used by the army.


    Since they are considering something weighing 34-38 tons and a cannon even with 105 mm, the upgraded T-62M with the V-92 engine and elements of the fire control system from the T-72B3 will also do.
    Russia could quickly modernize and offer many of these tanks from warehouses. Everyone will benefit.
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      5 August 2020 15: 58
      0
      it is unlikely that the 62nd remained in storage in large quantities, here even the throats are tearing that the T-72 of the first batches is in question
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 11 August 2020 14: 03
      -1
      The T-62/72 has small gun elevation / descent angles. A similar experience was in Afghanistan.
  19. orionvitt
    orionvitt 5 August 2020 13: 57
    +3
    DRDO expects two variants of a light tank for 18 months
    They had been building their fighter for thirty years. laughing Let's take a look. Wanguyu, the Indians, as always, will dance with a tambourine, take a break and buy Octopus.
  20. avdkrd
    avdkrd 5 August 2020 16: 11
    +1
    Quote: Hermit21
    Like an Indian item will have normal armor, or what? On the basis of SDM-1, you can make a full-fledged light tank by removing the hydropneumatic suspension and increasing protection. You can also develop additional kits with booking. But even now SD or SDM-1 surpasses any serial competitor in firepower.

    True, the Octopus can be finished off for a mountain tank, but at the moment it is not. Firepower is debatable. In Afghanistan, both sides greatly appreciated the T-100 rifled 55mm gun, which allowed shooting at 10000m. In the European theater of operations, the range of a direct shot rarely exceeds 2 km, and in the mountains, oddly enough, these distances are much higher. The slope / elevation angles for SDM-1 are not for mountains. In general, Sprut is a very niche product. For all the benefits associated with mobility, there are many trade-offs. Hydropneumatics is a plus that definitely does not need to be removed, but its buoyancy greatly limits the armor protection, which is essentially anti-fragmentation. 125mm for mountains, on the one hand it is excessive (there are no targets for bops), on the other hand it is insufficient (the range for the office is lower than that of the rifled one), it is impossible to realize the necessary declination / elevation angles. The Judge project was more suitable for the requirements of the GT, but it was not. The desire to have a water tank left its mark on all Russian equipment. It must be admitted that the Chinese version, although with nuances, meets the requirements for mountains more. My personal opinion is that floating equipment should be located in specialized units, and not in the main ones. Tanks, most of the artillery, will still not pass without bridges. The point, then, in floating BMPs, which are inferior to their NATO counterparts in armor and weapons? Octopus in the current version is not suitable for the tasks of a mountain tank and will be an ersatz.
  21. Simak
    Simak 5 August 2020 19: 13
    +1
    This shit doesn't go anywhere at all ...
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 5 August 2020 20: 25
      0
      Are you talking about your brain? Yes, it doesn't go anywhere, not even to your head.
  22. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 5 August 2020 20: 23
    0
    Whoever offers a high price and a bribe will buy from him. Offer them T34 at T90, half a pullback. Tank destroyer is old technology, how is it? Maybe they need a tank with a laser or concrete armor? For new technologies it is to the Ukrainians.
  23. Andrey Mironov_rus
    Andrey Mironov_rus 6 August 2020 18: 13
    +1
    It is worth admitting that the Chinese turned out to be a pretty good tank and the Indians in any case will be oh, how not sweet.
  24. Andrey Mironov_rus
    Andrey Mironov_rus 6 August 2020 18: 13
    0
    It is worth admitting that the Chinese turned out to be a pretty good tank and the Indians in any case will be oh, how not sweet.