Military Review

Belarus and Ukraine. The paradoxes of ideology

231

Views on reality. More than one



As a matter of fact, it is not for nothing that the Americans actively impose their vision of the world and their view of it. And allies, and everyone else. Because only very narrow-minded people do not understand that there can be more than one views on reality, and even more than two. And quite often they are incompatible.

You can productively argue about something, being exclusively within the framework of one paradigm. If one of the disputants reflects on the reasons for the collapse of the USSR and the advantages of socialism, and the other sincerely admires the monarchy, then most likely they will not have a productive conversation. Can an ordinary person simultaneously to look at the problem from different points of view? More often than not, no. And even Dr. Watson is not.

It is much more convenient for a normal person to live and act within the framework of one paradigm. Otherwise, a "brain twist" may simply happen. That is, if within the framework of this very familiar and familiar paradigm a person is still ready to look at something wider (far from everyone), then going beyond it is an extremely difficult and painful trick.

As a matter of fact, this is what makes any conversations with Belarusians or Ukrainians on general political topics rather meaningless. They already have a completely different paradigm. They look at this world differently. This is neither bad nor good, it is a fact. And by the way, yes, an ordinary person is not obliged to independently build their own picture of the world, starting from the atom and ending with the Universe. You know, it's too complicated.

Most often we get this very "picture of the world" ready-made. Like a cheeseburger. Therefore, it makes no sense to explain about “gas, oil, market, defense ...” to an ordinary person. Self-creation of a complete picture of the world for his brain is often an impossible task. If you don't believe it, experiment with your friends and coworkers. Just don't go too far. By the way, the success of various sects, scammers and manipulators is based on this. Ostap Bender is just a marker of the limited rationality of the majority of citizens. "Crooked in the land of the blind." Almost a king.

Unfortunately, the majority of the population is looking for ready-made answers, rather than trying to answer difficult questions. No matter how ridiculous it may sound, we do not fully realize it, because we live in an “anomaly”. As is known from stories "Cold War", propaganda worked on both sides of the Atlantic, but it really worked effectively in America, but not in Russia. Which had both pros and cons. Americans really didn’t like Russians and they continue to do so. And why? But because propaganda. It is extremely difficult for us to understand this, we are different, but they are not. They are just normal. And they sincerely believe everything that is "written on the fence."

This is precisely the difference between Russia and Belarus or Ukraine. We just can't figure out that there propaganda works and people believe in it. We rely on our own experience, and it is not just not universal, it is unique. We can look at the government's propaganda from the outside and expect the same trick from Ukrainians and Belarusians. But no, there is a very standard reaction there: once they said on TV that Russia is an enemy, then Russia is an enemy.

And people quite sincerely begin to hiss towards Russia. You know, sometimes hypnotists on stage instill various funny things in a person, such as that he is a horse or even a dog. Etc. And the person begins to behave accordingly. It is unpleasant, of course, to regard an adult educated person as a programmed robot, and a set of such people as an automated system, but, oddly enough, this model describes modern society well.

By the way, even on the example of Ukraine, it was noted that there were two parallel systems in the head of the “Svidomo Ukrainian”. The first is correct, ideological: Ukraine goes to Europe, "Maidan" is the greatest victory, and the difficulties are temporary. And at the same time, people are equipped with a second, parallel system of thinking that is in no way connected with the first, which allows them to somehow survive in the terrible conditions of "post-Maidan", right up to part-time work in "enemy Russia". Unlike the era of socialism, they sincerely believe in European values ​​(official ideology). And real life, where you have to survive, is separate.

Therefore, millions of Ukrainian guest workers who earn in Russia, in no way did not affect the picture of the world in Ukraine. It is useless to wait for them to compare one with the other. To beat them with facts is also useless. Alas. Their head does not work for matching. They don't know how. An ideological picture in finished form is loaded into their wise heads from the Ukrainian media, and it is useless to debate here. Reality either affects this picture very weakly, or does not affect it in any way. Feeling sorry for them is also pointless.

Belarusian example


But this tendency manifested itself most clearly and vividly in the case of brotherly Belarus. The mistake of the majority of Russian observers is the obvious idea for them that the Belarusians (Russian-speaking and visa-free to Russia) will see everything themselves and draw the correct conclusions themselves. And they will simply laugh at the "stupid anti-Russian propaganda."

Somehow they didn't do it well. Rather, it did not work out at all. We compose a picture of the world around us in very different ways, that is, the Russian approach “based on facts and use logic” is somehow of little interest to anyone. Belarus is a very interesting example of the triumph of ideology in a vacuum, ideology that has nothing to do with reality at all.

The entire Belarusian economy is tied to Russia, and the entire Belarusian ideology is tied to the idea that the main value is independence (from Russia!), And the main enemy is empire. The funny thing is that for some reason no one in Belarus pays attention to some “small” contradiction inherent in the very basis of the existence of the Belarusian society and state.

And because they (as well as in Ukraine!) Have two completely separate systems of "thinking". Ideological and practical. And they are not related to each other. It is rather difficult for us to understand this, but Belarusians and Ukrainians are actively trying to make money on a country for which they do not harbor particularly warm feelings, without feeling any remorse. Business is separate, friendship is separate, something like that. This is quite natural for them. And people are already completely different.

For us, the attempts of Belarus to receive huge volumes of cheap oil from Russia and feed the Bandera people with diesel fuel obtained from this oil look wild and immoral, but this is for us. They already have a different morality and a different logic. They are not like us. This must be understood. From their point of view, Russia delivers oil cheaper, because “it owes it and it is very profitable for it,” but oil products obtained from oil are already the full property of Belarus, which should not be accountable to anyone for their deliveries. And according to intergovernmental agreements, it should not supply gasoline to the Russian Federation either, because "it is not profitable."

Brain twist


That is, we just cannot understand each other due to the fact that, although we speak Russian, we understand the reality around us in very different ways. In about the same way, an adequate dialogue between a Darwinist and a creationist (or a monarchist and a Stalinist) is impossible. They will only quarrel. Too different initial concepts. Belarus, as it were, chose a “very own” concept, it is quite convenient for them inside it, but it practically does not fit with the Russian one. Spherical in a vacuum "socialist idealists-unmercenaries" who want to live comfortably at the expense of "gangster oligarchs-yacht owners". And such an ideology. Ideology, as already mentioned, is a ready-made program for the brain, which does not provide for self-reflection.

Agree, Belarus received 24 million tons of cheap oil from the Russian Federation. At below market prices. She received nothing from Poland except threats. Result: Poland - Eldorado and a role model (admiration), Russia - the main object of fear and hatred in Polesie. Well, yes, and we owe our ally a lot, and it is very beneficial for us ourselves. That is, they (in Eastern Europe) ideology can exist completely completely separate from reality. And people believe in it, and then they try to survive on the ruins.

That is why it is absolutely senseless to offer something to Belarusians or Ukrainians in the economic sense. All the buns will be eaten, but we won't get any thanks from them. According to their magical ideology, these same buns are simply put to them for the very fact of their existence on this planet.

Some of the same Belarusians are sincerely outraged by the “annexation of Crimea” and the lack of supplies of hydrocarbons in the volumes they want at their desired prices. And there, and there, the indignation is absolutely sincere, there is no falsehood here: two levels of thinking, not connected with each other. The ideal of the Belarusian public consciousness: every Belarusian in the morning receives an envelope with dollars from Putin as part of fraternal integration, and in the evening, in a rage, tears his portrait on the square in the course of the fight against Putin's creeping aggression ...
Author:
Photos used:
president.gov.by
Articles from this series:
Ukrainian version for Belarus
Shards of Empire
Ukraine and Belarus: a bit of conspiracy
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  1. Terenin
    Terenin 5 August 2020 20: 03 New
    +2
    Belarus and Ukraine. The paradoxes of ideology
    if this is a question, then naturally the correct answer is
    Brain twist
    the politicians of these countries
    1. Atlas
      Atlas 6 August 2020 21: 23 New
      10
      Quote: Terenin
      Belarus and Ukraine. The paradoxes of ideology
      if it's a question

      They have no paradox of ideology. In Ukraine, there is nothing but an artificially created and imposed by the West Russophobia. In Belarus, it is most likely due to Lukoshenko's fear of losing the presidency.
  2. Terenin
    Terenin 5 August 2020 20: 11 New
    16
    That is why it is absolutely senseless to offer something to Belarusians or Ukrainians in the economic sense. All the buns will be eaten, but we won't get any thanks from them. According to their magical ideology, these same buns are simply put to them for the very fact of their existence on this planet.

    No matter how you turn around (gentlemen, neighbors, brothers, half-brothers, or not brothers at all ...), and you will not be able to live and behave on an equal footing with Russia, at the expense of Russia and, spitting on the interests of Russia.

    Py.Sy. ... or at least find oil in your bowels winked
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 43 New
      -3
      Quote: Terenin
      No matter how you spin (gentlemen, neighbors, brothers, half-brothers or not brothers at all ...),

      And who have we been for a thousand years? And suddenly they became enemies. What is it like ???
      1. Terenin
        Terenin 6 August 2020 09: 51 New
        +3
        Quote: tihonmarine
        What is it like ???

        Да, как? Вы наивный? А, как становятся в одночасье предателями? Тоже не знаете? А, как еще можно "опустить" тысячелетних друзей ради конъюнктурной политической выгоды?
        Your outraged (and rightly so)
        Quote: tihonmarine
        And who have we been for a thousand years? And suddenly they became enemies. What is it like ???
        задайте Лукашенко. Для меня он перешел "Рубикон". А, если его в этом поддерживают жители, то и они тоже.

        Py.Sy. My friends and I have canceled the (constantly ordered) hunt. Further, let the Ukrainians and psheks bring them money.
        1. snake
          snake 6 August 2020 11: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: Terenin
          Для меня он перешел "Рубикон". А, если его в этом поддерживают жители, то и они тоже.

          1. Terenin
            Terenin 6 August 2020 19: 48 New
            0
            Quote: serpent
            Quote: Terenin
            Для меня он перешел "Рубикон". А, если его в этом поддерживают жители, то и они тоже.


            I see that, according to your calculations, since 2018 Russia, despite the blackmail, nevertheless, has begun to recover.
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 6 August 2020 23: 13 New
          0
          Quote: Terenin
          And how do they become traitors overnight?

          Pfu, they are born that way.
      2. georgiigennadievitch
        georgiigennadievitch 6 August 2020 10: 31 New
        +5
        Автор поднял интересную тему.Примерно такое же отношение к России во всех постсоветских республиках.(Естественно со своими нюансами).Но так сложилось во многом из-за российской же политики,которая проводилась после распада СССР.Некий комплекс вины.Типа"мы в ответе пред теми кого приручили" поэтому то,что у нас(в основном ресурсы,по нерыночным низким ценам,а на наш внутренний рынок двери для них распахнуты настеж- приходите со своим пусть даже и не очень качественными товарами,даже в ущерб российскому производителю,присылайте своих гастарбайтеров на заработки даже в ущерб собственным работникам) и т.д.Да ещё стремимся втянуть их во всякие союзы,типа ЕВРАЗЭС,ОДКБ и т.д.,которые на деле и гроша(пример тех же Белоруссии,Армении) не стоят,но за вступление в которые национальная местячковая элита умудряется вытребовать"со старшего брата"разного рода экономические и политические преференции для себя.А о трагедии брошенных на чужбине соотечественников у нас хоть и вспоминают когда выгодно(в основном перед выборами),но даже пальцем не пошевелили,чтобы реально встать на защиту их интересов.Так что чего уж там удивляться потребительскому отношению к России и этническим русским на постсоветском пространстве?Наше правительство, МИД работают на постсоветском пространстве плохо,неквалифицированно и без понимания своих . Представляется,что не сразу,но сложившееся положение и тенденцию изменить всё-таки можно.Но для этого в отношении постсоветских стран должна измениться прежде всего российская политика.Делать следует только то,что имеет взаимный интерес,но никак не в ущерб собственным..Допуск на российский рынок только на основе равного в республиках.Любое ущемление интересов российских предпринимателей и промышленников в республиках должно пресекаться зеркальными мерами в России.Гастарбайтеров нанимать в местах их проживания и под личную ответственность нанимателя.и по выделенным квотам,а не иначе.При нарушении российских законов отправлять на родину за счёт предпринимателя.Премущество отдавать этническим русским и русскоязычным.Не платить странам,где расположены российские военные базы техникой,деньгами и т.д.,но установить справедливый взнос всех участников в общий оборонный бюджет.Умные люди поймут,что постсоветские страны смогут выжить только в тесной кооперации,ну а неумным придётся испытать на себе всю тяжесть своего безумия.Ведь недаром ещё древние греки говорили о том,что тех,кого боги хотят погубить, они лишают их разума.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Atlas
        Atlas 6 August 2020 21: 26 New
        +9
        We were artificially pitted against each other. And how long it will take before we become friends again, I think no one knows.
    2. akunin
      akunin 6 August 2020 16: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Terenin
      or, at least, find oil in your bowels

      Ukraine has its own oil reserves

      well, shale ...
    3. pro100y.belarus
      pro100y.belarus 7 August 2020 13: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Terenin
      Py.Sy. ... or at least find oil in your bowels

      Cool, of course, about oil (checkmate) ... But in Switzerland there is only chocolate (not from oil) and cocoa beans do not grow there. But people somehow live, they don't cry ...
      1. Florian geyer
        Florian geyer 7 August 2020 14: 17 New
        +1
        Switzerland has a huge industrial complex. Metallurgy, mechanical engineering, arms industry, major chemical and pharmaceutical industries, developed agricultural and food industries.

        And due to this they live, and not due to banks or chocolate.
        1. pro100y.belarus
          pro100y.belarus 7 August 2020 14: 33 New
          +3
          Quote: Florian Geyer
          Switzerland has a huge industrial complex. Metallurgy, mechanical engineering, arms industry, major chemical and pharmaceutical industries, developed agricultural and food industries.

          So you have confirmed - what you need to strive for, build and develop, and not cry - we have no oil, we will all die ...
          Давали цыгану дешевую нефть - был "королем". Перестали давать - с катушек съехал. Нас на войну собирает, заставляет подыхать за эту самую нефть с газом.
          А нам надо строить "Швейцарию", а не Саудовскую Аравию. И нам с таким вождем не по пути.
          1. Florian geyer
            Florian geyer 7 August 2020 14: 59 New
            +2
            What kind of leader is your business. Another question is how to build it, Switzerland?
            Practice shows that behind the talk about the construction of Switzerland and other Sweden, there is either (a) predatory privatization with nationwide robbery and impoverishment according to the Russian and hohlyatsky model, or (b) the variant of the Tribaltic extinctions - to attach me to the EU and the whole crowd to dump to England or Ireland
            1. pro100y.belarus
              pro100y.belarus 7 August 2020 19: 44 New
              +1
              Quote: Florian Geyer
              What kind of leader is your business. Another question is how to build it, Switzerland?
              Practice shows that behind the talk about the construction of Switzerland and other Sweden, there is either (a) predatory privatization with nationwide robbery and impoverishment according to the Russian and hohlyatsky model, or (b) the variant of the Tribaltic extinctions - to attach me to the EU and the whole crowd to dump to England or Ireland

              Может уже хватит этих штампов про "хищническую приватизацию", "всенародное ограбление и обнищание населения"?
              Вы хвалите товарища Лу за то, что он не проводил "хищническую приватизацию", как это было в России. Сохранил (типа) социализм. Ладно, согласен.
              Но в то же время на всех форумах утверждаете, что жизненный уровень в России (в лапах "хищников") гораздо выше белорусского - "в Белоруссии хоть чистенько, но бедненько".
              And if it were not for the monetary injections of Russia, the Belarusians would have walked in sandals and ate only potatoes.
              Maybe already enough to be hypocritical?
              Пусть "травоядные" приезжают и живут здесь. Но нет. Лучше жить среди "хищников" и рассуждать с дивана о пользе травы.
              1. Florian geyer
                Florian geyer 7 August 2020 20: 18 New
                +1
                Come on. The standard of living is about the same. This is if we talk about the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus.
                As for Moscow, I can say that yes, according to most indicators, the standard of living is higher than in Switzerland and most cities in Germany or France. But Moscow is not an indicator.

                I personally like many things in Belarus more than in the Russian Federation, for example, law enforcement agencies and courts work much better. In the Russian Federation there are no fair courts in principle, even in civil and economic disputes.
                I like the fact that medicine is not being massively reduced and is not being commercialized. Although in the Russian Federation medicine as a whole is not bad, it is better and more affordable (even paid) than in Europe, but in Belarus it is even more accessible.
                Which is not very pleasant, but this is how I would say local features. And so everything is about the same
                1. pro100y.belarus
                  pro100y.belarus 7 August 2020 20: 35 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Florian Geyer
                  Law enforcement agencies and courts work better.

                  They made fun.
                  Хотя... да. "Работают" лучше, на опережение.
                  You at least looked at Belarusian sites (not government ones) and did not talk nonsense.
                  There is NO LEGAL compliance at all.
                  Even the detention of Russian citizens did not enlighten you.
                  1. Florian geyer
                    Florian geyer 7 August 2020 21: 00 New
                    0
                    I'm talking about civil and economic (arbitration) courts
                  2. Florian geyer
                    Florian geyer 7 August 2020 21: 31 New
                    -1
                    And would you go to court in a Russian court somehow ...
                    Immediately recalled an anecdote:
                    The judge comes into the smoking-room and looks, there another judge sits sad. Smokes.
                    1st asks him: Why are you so gloomy?
                    2nd answers: Yes, here's a difficult case ...
                    1st - What?
                    2nd - I don't even know what to do. The side that was right in the deal brought in 3000 usd, and the one that was wrong gave 5000 usd. What to do?
                    1st - Oh !!! So you give this wrong 2000 and judge honestly!
                2. pro100y.belarus
                  pro100y.belarus 7 August 2020 20: 36 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Florian Geyer
                  But Moscow is not an indicator.

                  And Minsk is not an indicator.
  3. rudolff
    rudolff 5 August 2020 20: 11 New
    +1
    There are no paradoxes. Ideology in Russia works in the same way as in Belarus and Ukraine.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 5 August 2020 20: 57 New
      -20
      Hi Rudolph.
      Tokmo we have a bigger scale and it will blow --- enough impact force to sew the ball 1.5 times along and then across with the same hot dance. Heyh!
      links
      no spoons and no forks
      our cook is never a true sailor!
      Hey hey, whoahaha who comes from Bodun / Barents
      ... who smiled menacingly in the underwater tube ...
      Hey hey, whahaha, you will never see us.
      We made our way to Stalin through the storms ...
      Эй,хей,уахаха для "ВО" делюха
      JUST we like to live so much!
      PS.
      Thank you boys, but I'm a kid ....)))
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 5 August 2020 21: 17 New
        -8
        Hello Stormbreaker! Yes, the scale is just different. Why are ideological games in Russia dangerous? We can jerk forward, we can pull back under the general approval, or we can just jerk!
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 5 August 2020 21: 30 New
          -14
          You know, it feels like you are standing at the end of your own garden and the night is already full and the moon is on friendly terms with the dogs .. But clouds and thunderstorms from our western border are driving the discharges of m Tuzik, he is here, no matter where. You know my tuzik - a Russian soldier is not a cap, he is a wrapper for better times, he is our stronghold.
        2. lopvlad
          lopvlad 6 August 2020 01: 32 New
          17
          Quote: rudolff
          Why are ideological games in Russia dangerous?


          what ideological games of Russia are we talking about? In relation to Belarus, no ideology emanates from Russia. Everything is as old as the world (you give them money, they give you money, or you give them money and they give you goods). Moreover, in the modern world, political support on the world stage can be a commodity.
          This type of relationship between countries has long been the norm in the West, and no one is outraged there.
          If you want to be independent, live on your own money, do not take loans and buy energy resources at world prices.
          So after all, the former Soviet republics and financial assistance from Russia to use preferences for their goods in front of Russian ones on the Russian market and so that Russia sells them energy resources (gas, oil) at domestic Russian prices.
          And these are not notions, but real wishes of the Belarusian authorities. At the same time, how to support Russia, for example, to recognize the Russian Crimea as soon as we are an independent state with an independent policy in the international arena.
          Russia is a separate independent country and why the hell should it support a country that is only a friend of Russian cheap energy sources, cheap loans and the Russian sales market.

          For example, I don't give a damn what ideology in a particular country if this country does not live at the expense of Russia and at the same time develops Russophobia and supports the West.
          Russia needs to learn from the United States in dealing with its allies. As soon as its allies decide to kick up, the United States will instantly take out a whip and drive them to their worth.
          1. Olezhek
            6 August 2020 07: 28 New
            -5
            In relation to Belarus, no ideology emanates from Russia. Everything is as old as the world (you give them money, they give you money, or you give them money and they give you goods).


            Yah? Alas, dear lopvald, life is not limited to relationships: buy and sell.
            If anything I have this fad.
            Ideology is often more important than economics.
            (Ukraine and Belarus are the most striking examples here).
            1. Cube123
              Cube123 6 August 2020 08: 07 New
              +2
              Quote: Olezhek
              life is not limited to relationships: buy and sell

              Oleg, first of all, thank you for your articles. You just get aesthetic pleasure from them.

              Secondly, about relationships. Recently I talked with one dog lover (literally). And he talked about the basic principle of training. In order for a dog to respect you, it must be constantly kicked and humiliated. Otherwise, the deep, inherent in genes, instinct begins to operate. All pack animals have a clear hierarchy within the pack. And if someone feeds you (shares HIS food with you), the animal perceives it as that this someone is below him on the hierarchical ladder and begins to behave accordingly. Comparing the effectiveness of the foreign policy of the United States and Russia, some analogies suggest themselves.
              1. Inorus
                Inorus 6 August 2020 09: 58 New
                +5
                "Разговаривал недавно с одним собачником (в прямом смысле). И он рассказал об основном принципе дрессировки. Для того, чтобы собака тебя уважала, ее нужно постоянно пинать и унижать. "- какой же бред несет ваш собачник, с помощью такой дрессировки можно получить только трусливое и забитое животное, готовое всегда укусить исподтишка, а не друга и защитника. Чем пересказывать таких"собачников" просто загулите "основные методы дрессировки собак" и будет Вам счастье! P.S. Собак держу с 1983 г.
                1. Cube123
                  Cube123 6 August 2020 15: 29 New
                  +1
                  Igor, thanks for the addition. A definite plus. It only emphasized the point that I was trying to express. The USA doesn't need friends and defenders. Therefore, what they receive as a result of such a foreign policy is fully consistent with their goals.
                  Quote: Inorus
                  with the help of such training, you can get only a cowardly and downtrodden animal, always ready to bite on the sly, and not a friend and protector.
              2. pro100y.belarus
                pro100y.belarus 7 August 2020 13: 22 New
                0
                [/ quote] [quote = Cubic123] In order for a dog to respect you, you need to constantly kick and humiliate it.

                Как "приятно" себя чувствовать собакой... А вам - хозяином.
            2. Florian geyer
              Florian geyer 7 August 2020 14: 49 New
              0
              Come on ... Ideology, economics ... The fact is that all our countries, including the Russian Federation, are stubs of Greater Russia, plundered by local princes and raised their own big capital. They hold onto their pieces and really don't want to share with anyone. And the closest large predator who would gladly tidy up their property is the Russian capitalists, who are richer and behind them is the strength of the state of the Russian Federation that belongs to them and its army.

              The classic contradiction of capitalism in the imperialist stage. This is a trifle and rushes between the imperialist predators (West, China, RF). Many choose the West because they are more afraid of the Russian oligarchy and hope that the Westernizers will not take everything away from them at all. Many prudently climb under China, for the Chinese certainly do not encroach on either power or property.

              And for the population they invent an appropriate explanation - an ideology. Most often nationalistic. In the Russian Federation, taking into account the status of a predator, they invented great power and this also works.

              The Russian Federation cannot offer anything to the people in the countries of the former Soviet Union, just together or instead of local oligarchs they will be robbed by Russian oligarchs. That's all.

              If the Russian Federation brought progress - liberation from capitalist oppression, then the new Red Army would have been greeted with flowers and no capitalist propaganda would have worked, they themselves would have gone to dispossess their bourgeoisie.
    2. Uncle Izya
      Uncle Izya 5 August 2020 21: 08 New
      -18
      Russia's ideology is an oligarchy to plunder and divide
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 5 August 2020 21: 21 New
        +3
        This is not an ideology. Rather, part of a newfound mentality. All cataclysms in Russia took place under the banner of the struggle for justice. Even when they ended up getting even more injustice.
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 5 August 2020 21: 55 New
          -8
          Cataclysms occurred because autitarianism loves only itself, beloved. Any power, if it grabs like a tick / b / wink cling to the body of the country, then chaushenkizm or according to the scenario of Yanukovych ... It doesn't matter for us here, we see only the furious plebs and through silence. Silence shines through L.ukashenko's security officials. ./. I know, you can rely on the vases, but you guys will make peace there. I'll write in the morning. I don't want blood. Thank you for your understanding.
          1. Olezhek
            6 August 2020 07: 29 New
            +3
            Cataclysms took place because autitarianism loves only itself beloved. Any power, if it clings like a tick / s / wink to the body of the country, then chaushenkizm or according to the scenario of Yanukovych.


            Yanukovych and authoritarianism, yeah drinks
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 5 August 2020 22: 13 New
          +2
          Quote: rudolff
          All cataclysms in Russia took place under the banner of the struggle for justice. Even when they ended up getting even more injustice.

          "Abuses give rise to revolutions, and revolutions are worse than any abuses" - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821)
        3. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: rudolff
          This is not an ideology. Rather, part of a newfound mentality.

          The mentality has been developed for centuries, and the ideology for years.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 August 2020 22: 07 New
      +9
      Quote: rudolff
      Ideology in Russia works in the same way as in Belarus and Ukraine.

      Вы правы идеология одна, только с разницей, что местные хлопчики хотели отделения от центра, думали, что они могут стать "державами", но не смогли ими стать, потому что вновь образованные государства не прошли эволюционного развития, потому что они не были и маленькими независимыми княжествами, а так хотелось. И кто пришёл к власти у них ? Ну кроме Кучмы и назвать некого, тот всё таки был директором "Южмаш", а остальные то бухгалтер, то председатель колхоза, то клоун, то вообще не то "зэк" не то свой парень. Вся местечковая местная "публика". Они не понимают как мир устроен, их никто не знает, и не хочет признавать. Элита должна быть элитой, а не хуторскими хлопцами.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 5 August 2020 22: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: tihonmarine
        The elite should be the elite, not the farm lads.

        не соглашусь. Как же тогда наша элита, не торгаши и хапуги, а те, кто во власти. У всех достойное образование, жили в столицах, европах, одним словом " сливки" СССР, а результат где?
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 5 August 2020 22: 38 New
          -4
          Quote: Silvestr
          disagree. How, then, is our elite, not hucksters and grabbers, but those in power.

          But in vain. Really, and our elite took for their own. Of course not. That's exactly those who are in power, and who? The son of a worker, the son or grandson of a collective farmer. Whoever takes them for their own, maybe the Queen of Great Britain will receive them at Buckingham Palace for breakfast. I know that none of the post-Soviet presidents received this honor, but just the peasant's son Yuri Gagarin, at the invitation of Queen Elizabeth II of England, was invited to Buckingham Palace for breakfast on July 15, 1961. According to the centuries-old tradition in Great Britain, the reception of a foreign guest by the reigning monarchs is the highest honor. Well, compare who these modern post-Soviet presidents and prime ministers are. Which of them were allowed for breakfast at the Queen's?
          1. Cube123
            Cube123 5 August 2020 23: 44 New
            +8
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Whoever takes them for their own, maybe the Queen of Great Britain will receive them at Buckingham Palace for breakfast. I know that none of the post-Soviet presidents has received this honor ...
            Well, compare who these modern post-Soviet presidents and prime ministers are. Which of them were allowed for breakfast at the Queen's?


            Vladimir Putin's visit to the UK. How it was
            https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5c31e8e78c276f00aa0e8d61/vizit-vladimira-putina-v-velikobritaniiu-kak-eto-bylo-5d9b18b24e057700ae87afb3
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 5 August 2020 23: 50 New
              -7
              Quote: Cube123
              Vladimir Putin's visit to the UK. How it was

              Boy! and sorry but The official meeting of Vladimir and Lyudmila Putin with Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh was held at Horseguards Square. but not in the Marble Hall like Gagarin, not Breakfast... Putin is an ordinary pawn for HER.
              1. vVvAD
                vVvAD 6 August 2020 02: 47 New
                11
                I wonder who is she to him? No more than a tribute to the monarchist tradition.
                Who is she? The wedding general of a great power in the past.
                Ritual figure.
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 6 August 2020 09: 24 New
                  0
                  Quote: vVvAD
                  The wedding general of a great power in the past.
                  Ritual figure.

                  Well, it’s not so ritualistic, looking at the GDP in trillions of dollars.
                  UK - 2,829
                  Russia - 1,610
                  1. vVvAD
                    vVvAD 6 August 2020 15: 32 New
                    0
                    This is not her trillions, and not his - this is in the first place.
                    If you really want to point to a colleague of the GDP from the UK, then this is Boris Johnson. It is foolish to compare Putin to the royal persons of Great Britain, endowed with exclusively representative functions for more than 100 years. These are two.
                    Великобритания была державой, "над которой никогда не заходит солнце", разбогатевшей на грабеже колоний, наживающейся на работорговле и опиумных войнах, вывозя из Индии и Китая Золото и серебро - это три.
                    Having amassed a fortune on this, it became a world financial center just in time for the era of the decline of the empire, in which, as throughout its history, it was never destroyed at least to some extent in any of the wars it fought and did not experience similar in destructive effect national revolutions i.e. its incomes declined smoothly, and the functions of the pound as a reserve currency were preserved - this, in the fourth place.
                    So there is nothing to compare warm with soft.
              2. EvilLion
                EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 22 New
                +8
                For her, Putin is the head of a foreign state, with him she solves interstate issues in an official setting. Gagarin is just a guest of honor, whom you can invite for tea. But Gagarin does not solve anything. He's just an officer in the Soviet Air Force who was the first to carry out an important mission. The USSR could well refuse the British Queen, and Gagarin would not have gone to her. And some Elton John and the Beatles also do not decide anything, they are just very rich public people. Some industrialist can already decide something.
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 6 August 2020 09: 04 New
                  -2
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  For her, Putin is the head of a foreign state, with him she solves interstate issues in an official setting.

                  But the Queen also received Patriarch Kiril at Buckingham Palace. That Gagarin, that Kirill, they are not from the ruling elite. And of the ruling elite, only Trump has bothered to honor this honor lately.
                  1. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 6 August 2020 09: 29 New
                    +5
                    Cyril is the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. And the Queen is the head of the Church of England. They are like colleagues in a dangerous business.
                2. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 6 August 2020 10: 36 New
                  +1
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  For her, Putin is the head of a foreign state, with him she solves interstate issues in an official setting.

                  I remembered the Eltsins again, but this time about the wheel, and how in Helsinki I fell into a salad with my face, in an official setting.
                3. vVvAD
                  vVvAD 6 August 2020 15: 33 New
                  0
                  It does not solve international issues in principle - it is a shame not to know this, but at the same time to comment on articles on foreign policy topics, i.e. to write WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW. You would be ashamed.
                  All international issues in Great Britain are solved by the Prime Minister, as I already wrote, for more than 100 years.
            2. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 5 August 2020 23: 56 New
              -1
              Quote: Cube123
              Vladimir Putin's visit to the UK

              Oh, I forgot. I don't put a minus as always.
              1. Cube123
                Cube123 5 August 2020 23: 58 New
                +6
                Quote: tihonmarine

                Oh, I forgot. I don't put a minus as always.

                Я минус поставил за "Мальчик!"
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 08 New
                  -6
                  Quote: Cube123
                  Я минус поставил за "Мальчик!"

                  Well, of course I thought so before I wrote, you are predictable. Excuse me.
                2. Sklendarka
                  Sklendarka 6 August 2020 07: 04 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Cube123
                  Quote: tihonmarine

                  Oh, I forgot. I don't put a minus as always.

                  Я минус поставил за "Мальчик!"

                  ,,...если это девочка,бросте в меня камень..."
                3. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 6 August 2020 09: 37 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Cube123
                  Я минус поставил за "Мальчик!"

                  I knew that you would be offended. Sorry, my childhood was difficult.
            3. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 00 New
              -1
              Quote: Cube123
              Vladimir Putin's visit to the UK. How it was

              But where? Not in the Marble Hall, as Elizabeth II received in Yuri Gagarin, or even the Trump couple.
            4. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 04 New
              -1
              Quote: Cube123
              Vladimir Putin's visit to the UK.

              И кто для "Ея Величества" рабочий сын ВВП ?
              1. Nikolay73
                Nikolay73 6 August 2020 11: 56 New
                0
                Nominal possession is not possession, even if it is about knowledge ... The subtleties of court etiquette are certainly important, but for whom and to what extent ... Napoleons still exist, but does it make sense? Here's what I partly agree with you is that the elite (ideally) should be prepared for their duties, although, as reality shows, this plan also has serious flaws ...
            5. New Year day
              New Year day 6 August 2020 10: 22 New
              +2
              Quote: Cube123
              Vladimir Putin's visit to the UK

              add the PRESIDENT! Then think about it. how he was accepted without this position
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 6 August 2020 10: 20 New
            +2
            Quote: tihonmarine
            That's exactly those who are in power and who? The son of a worker, the son or grandson of a collective farmer. Whoever takes them for their own, maybe the Queen of Great Britain will receive them at Buckingham Palace for breakfast

            the son of the banker Lebedev received the title of peerage in England, so everything can be
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 6 August 2020 10: 48 New
              0
              Quote: Silvestr
              the son of the banker Lebedev received the title of peerage in England,
              Peers have five ranks: Duke, Marquis, Earl, Viscount, and Baron. Probably not given above the baronet, but for some reason they gave it.
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 6 August 2020 11: 04 New
                +3
                Quote: tihonmarine
                but for some reason they gave it.

                After all have given
        2. mark2
          mark2 5 August 2020 23: 12 New
          +4
          Как же тогда наша элита, не торгаши и хапуги, а те, кто во власти. У всех достойное образование, жили в столицах, европах, одним словом " сливки" СССР, а результат где?

          Politics is a choice between two evils. What result do you dislike?) Whatever decision the government makes, there will always be those who are not satisfied with it
          Today, many are not satisfied with the fact that Russia is not the first economy in the World, that there is no that, we do not produce this ... And 30 years ago, some did not like the fact that Russia-USSR was producing everything at that time.
          Many people here say that all decisions are made in the interests of specific individuals whom everyone envies. So they have real power behind them, so they are the elite. Name where else? And the people are not strength. The people are just people. An example of this is Khabarovsk. The people will soon get bored, and Furgal will sit down.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 6 August 2020 09: 39 New
            0
            Quote: mark2
            What result do you dislike?)

            Yes, when the president at the airport pees on a Boeing wheel.
            1. mark2
              mark2 6 August 2020 09: 49 New
              -2
              A patriotic act on his part. Boeing wheel and not Il. laughing
              Yeltsin was a product of that era. The drunken, cattle, poorly educated masses nominated such a person for President. The country did not respect itself and did not receive respect for itself. It's different today. Self-respect has appeared and partners have a fear that they will make them respect.
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 6 August 2020 10: 28 New
                0
                Quote: mark2
                The drunken, cattle, poorly educated masses nominated such a person for President.

                И так же к нему относилась и вся мировая правящая элита, "из грязи да в князи"
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 6 August 2020 10: 24 New
            +4
            Quote: mark2
            What result do you not like?)

            I am not satisfied with the result that in the early 2000s there were 23 self-sufficient regions in Russia, and now about 10.
      2. rudolff
        rudolff 5 August 2020 22: 16 New
        +3
        I agree. But this applies not only to the lads. Remember the late 80s and 90s of the early Yeltsin period. The idea was very popular that if Russia dumped ballast in the form of the union republics, it would rush forward like a jet liner. Alas! Everything turned out to be more complicated. Only the bank accounts of individual citizens rushed forward.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 5 August 2020 22: 56 New
          0
          Quote: rudolff
          The idea was very popular that if Russia dumped ballast in the form of the union republics, it would rush forward like a jet liner. Alas!

          Кто они, а кто такие рагули из Украины и Белоруссии. Кому нужен "мёртвый балласт". Запад себя уважает.
        2. Olezhek
          6 August 2020 07: 32 New
          0
          Remember the late 80s and 90s of the early Yeltsin period. The idea was very popular that if Russia dumped ballast in the form of the union republics, it would rush forward like a jet liner.


          Here's something I don't remember exactly this idea.
          I remember the legend about the Holy Market and the Holy Democracy, but somehow not about ballast.
        3. EvilLion
          EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 24 New
          -3
          I am afraid that Russia, too, took off very badly, as soon as statesmen came to power in it, but the republics are not very good. It would be interesting to listen to Zyuganov in the 90s, and not in 2020.
      3. Olezhek
        6 August 2020 07: 31 New
        +2
        что они могут стать "державами", но не смогли ими стать, потому что вновь образованные государства не прошли эволюционного развития,


        A very important thought
        That is why Ukraine is not France.
        And Belarus is not Austria.
        1. dauria
          dauria 7 August 2020 00: 42 New
          -2
          That is why Ukraine is not France.
          And Belarus is not Austria.


          None of these four is a state. France and Austria are exactly the same little ones that elephants will crush if they get tangled under their feet. In fact, there are only two countries left - the United States and China. The rest will have to choose a side. There will be no strong Iran, India or Russia. The third is unnecessary in this stable scheme. The names of the countries will be left, but the full and unconditional sovereignty - figurines. So, they will hide in the shadow and not shine.
    4. Max otto
      Max otto 6 August 2020 14: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: rudolff
      There are no paradoxes. Ideology in Russia works in the same way as in Belarus and Ukraine.

      I don't understand why they will bypass you. Your statement is absolutely correct. For some reason Russians associate gas, oil, etc. as their property, why is it interesting? After all, all this does not belong to them but to fully joint-stock companies, they worry about their oligarchs, although they will not lift a finger for the citizens of Russia, on the contrary, all finances are taken abroad.
      Although the same things are not understood by its leadership with its leader in Belarus, Rygorych is trying to come to an agreement with the GDP on gas / oil prices, and the latter is probably already tired of explaining to him that of course he can influence these prices, but why should he need it. Rygorych, due to his blinkeredness, frankly does not understand how something can not be in the power of the president laughing
      1. Olezhek
        7 August 2020 16: 06 New
        -1
        I don't understand why they will bypass you. Your statement is absolutely correct. For some reason Russians associate gas, oil, etc. as their property, why is it interesting? After all, all this does not belong to them but to fully joint-stock companies, they worry about their oligarchs, although they will not lift a finger for the citizens of Russia, on the contrary, all finances are taken abroad.


        And this does not concern you, my dear comrade
        This is tsuzoe for you

        Go get the Rockefeller money ... well, or the Rothschilds ...
        They say they are all criminal ... belay
  4. polpot
    polpot 5 August 2020 20: 20 New
    18
    A brain twist, it is very good to be cured by hunger, the abolition of preferences and living within your means is the best medicine.
    1. Ru_Na
      Ru_Na 5 August 2020 20: 59 New
      11
      History will show that Ukraine is already entering this phase, maybe indeed, people will learn something, but personally it seems to me that even dying of hunger and cold out of their own stupidity, greed and laziness, they will still blame the other, but not themselves !
      1. sergey32
        sergey32 5 August 2020 21: 07 New
        +7
        Let whomever they want to blame when they are removed from their allowance.
      2. Clear
        Clear 5 August 2020 21: 16 New
        +5
        Quote: Ru_Na
        History will show that Ukraine is already entering this phase, maybe indeed, people will learn something, but personally it seems to me that even dying of hunger and cold out of their own stupidity, greed and laziness, they will still blame the other, but not themselves !

        Rustam, it seems to me that apart from the transmissions of Solovyov and Skabeeva, ordinary Russians do not care about Ukraine. Well, they left for the EU, that's their business. What is it to us? Then piss off.
        Which of the products that are in Ukraine and not with us? Vegetable culture? I beg of you winked
      3. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 5 August 2020 22: 23 New
        +9
        Quote: Ru_Na
        History will show that Ukraine is already entering this phase, maybe, indeed, people will learn something

        Ну никто не спросит людей, даже если начнётся голод. Эти государства пошли путём направляемым западными "партнёрами", которым своя рубашка ближе к телу. Капитализм развивался веками, и вдруг появились новоявленные капиталисты, правители непонятно каких образований, ну кто их примет за своих ? Они будут улыбаться,похлопывать по плечу этих деревенских хлопцев, но никогда не примут их за ровню, но этого наши бывшие братья не понимают, они думают они мировая элита. Нет они просто дети хуторян.
      4. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 47 New
        0
        Quote: Ru_Na
        History will show that Ukraine is already entering this phase

        Where where ? Into the manure!
    2. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 07: 34 New
      0
      Brain twist, it is very good to be cured by hunger,


      Do not be treated at all - an example of Ukraine.
      The second example is the Republic of Belarus after the non-recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the reduction in aid and Russia, the fall of the Belarusian ruble by three times - no influence on the brain and politics.

      Direct self-transformation of economic realities into political views is just an illusion.
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 5 August 2020 20: 23 New
    +3
    It should be simpler, in that case! Based on simple and understandable feelings, reflexes.
    In order for them to want Schaub with us, to us, you need a stable feeling that we have BETTER, much better than theirs. When such a FEELING is present and has real evidence under it, it is very difficult to simply interrupt them with propaganda, get lost!
    Of course, some part will wake up other feelings, vices ... envy, anger !!! Not without it. But there is no ideal in the world and there is nothing!
    And now a logical question .... everything is so good with us, it's good for everyone, they wanted to adapt to us ???
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 August 2020 22: 59 New
      -1
      Quote: rocket757
      In order for them to want Schaub with us, to us, you need a stable feeling that we have BETTER, much better than theirs.

      This is what needs to be proved that it is better in Russia. But you need to prove it in deed, not in words.
      1. Gato
        Gato 5 August 2020 23: 59 New
        +3
        you need to prove by deeds, not words

        Hm .. A kind word and a pistol (C) is somehow more convincing.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: Gato
          A kind word and a pistol (C) is somehow more convincing.

          So it's not me with the gun!
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: Gato
          With a kind word and a gun

          I am true, not out of spite.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 6 August 2020 09: 37 New
            +1
            You don't need to PROOF. We must do business, do our own business, OUR COUNTRY.
  6. demo
    demo 5 August 2020 20: 24 New
    +7
    It is much more convenient for a normal person to live and act within the framework of one paradigm. Otherwise, a "brain twist" may simply happen. That is, if within the framework of this very familiar and familiar paradigm a person is still ready to look at something wider (far from everyone), then going beyond it is an extremely difficult and painful trick.

    The author is not quite right.
    An example is my father.
    Subordinates to about 10000 people. He is the leader.
    And not a day, not two, but seventeen years in a row.
    But at home, he is a subordinate person. Who? It is clear to whom - the wife.
    And no discomfort.
    Simultaneously, there are two paradigms - a leader and a subordinate. By the way, there was also the Communist Party. There are no words at all.

    As a matter of fact, this is what makes any conversations with Belarusians or Ukrainians on general political topics rather meaningless. They already have a completely different paradigm. They look at this world differently. This is neither bad nor good, it is a fact.
    We are Russia, we simply do not know how or do not want to ensure that our relatives and not very brothers follow the rules of the game that have been established.
    Unlike the same Americans.
    An American who finances some kind of programs will never philosophize that the opinion of an opponent is neither good nor bad.
    He will make him think the way an American should think and convince him that this is good for the latter.
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 5 August 2020 21: 24 New
      +2
      Если мы будем "как американцы", то мы уже точно не будем братьями. У американцев парадигма - белый человек, остальные - рабы, вассалы, скот! И никак иначе!
      1. demo
        demo 6 August 2020 06: 19 New
        +2
        I, just like you, are categorically against the transfer of fraternal relationships into financial and business ones.
        And to me the idea that a Belarusian or a Ukrainian is second-class people is disgusting and unacceptable.
        But it's about something else.

        Any nation can be considered on the example of a not very large team.
        There are both slaves and leaders in it.
        And also there is a middle position - and neither those, nor those.
        The presenters are of interest.
        The presence of certain character traits allows them to enjoy the respect they deserve. They listen to opinions, reckon with them, try to imitate them, and so on.

        And here we must state the following:
        - any person who occupies a leading position in the community owes this only to herself, and not to the position or place that she occupies.
        And now let's move on to more - to a nation or a people.
        It's a little more complicated here, but essentially the same state of affairs remains.
        The number of leaders is increasing.
        And between them there is either competition or struggle.
        Although it is possible and the subordination of all to one person.

        And again, there is a clear understanding that this personality, who was defined as a leader, by hook, and sometimes not by crook, took the place of the leader.

        The most difficult thing is the relationship between closely related nations or peoples.
        In aggregate, two peoples, even closely related ones, may not want a common home.
        And the reason may be that the smaller people do not share most of the habits, established rules, the behavioral model of the larger people.
        It seems that he loves, it seems that he appreciates, it seems that he recognizes seniority, but he does not want to live by the big rules.

        I've been chewing it for so long in the morning just to say the following.
        Для того, что бы белорусы или кто-то еще, желал жить с нами "под одной крышей, необходимо что мы- русские (не говорю об остальных нациях) стали иными.
        We, ourselves, lack the very qualities that would indicate that they should follow us, we need to listen, we are a guiding star.
        And there is only one reason - we lack the ideology of the people.
        We are an amorphous association that cannot or does not want to decide where we are going.

        And waiting or nodding to the fact that Putin or someone else will report to us about ideology in the next unfulfilled decree is naivety.

        It is sinful to deceive others. Deceiving yourself is foolish.
        1. Olezhek
          6 August 2020 07: 36 New
          +2
          And to me the idea that a Belarusian or a Ukrainian is second-class people is disgusting and unacceptable.
          But it's about something else.


          I strongly recommend asking how Belarusians and Ukrainians relate to Russia and Russians.
          You will be very surprised.
          1. demo
            demo 6 August 2020 09: 09 New
            +2
            I can be interested, but my age does not allow me to be surprised.
            The blood of Ukrainians, Russians and Bulgarians flows in my veins.
            Those. I'm basically a cosmopolitan.
            But I'm Russian, to the core.
            There is not and never will be.

            I am well aware of the feelings we, Russians, evoke from our close neighbors.

            The reason for how the same Belarusians or Ukrainians treat Russians is that I gave a fairly detailed answer on this matter.
            And the point is not only in the mentality of these peoples, but also in ourselves.
            For me, objectivity really takes precedence over the short-term benefits of rigging.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 28 New
          +3
          The standard of living in Russia is much higher than in Belarus and on the remnants of the Ukrainian SSR. What other proof do the inhabitants there need? Everyone who saw the objective reality has long left these territories for Russia.

          Or does Russia need to become a paradise on Earth so that everyone will finally like it?
          1. pro100y.belarus
            pro100y.belarus 7 August 2020 13: 43 New
            -1
            Quote: EvilLion
            The standard of living in Russia is much higher than in Belarus and on the remnants of the Ukrainian SSR. What other proof do the inhabitants there need?

            Ну, если меряться уровнем жизни, то Россия - не авторитет. Почему-то беженцы толпами валят в Европу, а не в Россию. Да и сами россияне понастроили себе домов "за бугром". И возвращаются на историческую Родину, банально, "срубить бабла", что-бы комфортно жить "за бугром" и дальше.
          2. Florian geyer
            Florian geyer 7 August 2020 21: 07 New
            0
            Yes, about the same standard of living in all three Slavic republics
        3. neri73-r
          neri73-r 6 August 2020 09: 18 New
          -2
          Quote: demo
          We are an amorphous association that cannot or does not want to decide where we are going.

          So it's not for nothing that the Anglo-Saxons have prescribed a ban on ideology in the Constitution for us! GDP is beating, but it is not possible to change it, and in the recent case, what we wanted did not quite work out. So half measures. The liberal elite, realizing what will happen to them, grabbed a stranglehold and sabotage.
          1. demo
            demo 6 August 2020 09: 27 New
            +5
            Are you trying to make me laugh or pity me in the morning?
            GDP is beating, beating, and the damned liberals won't give it?
            Если бы ВВП захотел, то "тенденции Фургала" позволяют судить о его возможностях.
            VVP never wanted to define the ideology of a nation!
            Когда он заявил что "патриотизм - это наша идеология", то я понял - это конец.
            Patriotism is a state of public perception of one's country and its place in the world. Based on past achievements and merit.
            But ideology is the direction of striving.
            And patriotism cannot be an ideology.
            Как не могут "заветы предков, их образ жизни, победы и т.п." определять то, к чему мы идем.
            If you look back, then back and swim.
        4. Florian geyer
          Florian geyer 7 August 2020 15: 54 New
          -1
          What is brotherhood? Have you ever seen how the brothers squabble and judge me all the way for the apartment left over from their parents? And then do their families hate each other for generations?
          So brotherhood is something, how to say, from idealistic spheres.

          From the point of view of science, one of the main factors that unites peoples into a nation is economic and economic unity (along with cultural and linguistic unity). And as if not the main one. When economic ties fall apart, no common culture and language will prevent the peoples from splitting among themselves, like those brothers for their parents' apartment.

          What actually happened to our peoples
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 August 2020 23: 02 New
      -2
      Quote: demo
      We are Russia, we simply do not know how or do not want to ensure that our relatives and not very brothers follow the rules of the game that have been established.

      Installed in Russia. But not in Belarus, but in Ukraine, there are no rules. And who is afraid of Belarus in Russia, there is no need to remind.
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 5 August 2020 23: 24 New
      +4
      Quote: demo
      to think the way an American should, and will convince that this is good, for the latter

      Well, today the American will simply unscrew the fins and be done.
    4. Lord_Bran
      Lord_Bran 6 August 2020 04: 18 New
      0
      Противоречия нет: парадигма "начальник-подчиненный" работает в обе стороны.)
  7. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 5 August 2020 20: 25 New
    -2
    Oh, daddy-drain ...
    Actually, behavior = money doesn't smell.
    Look at the Kremlin + Endogan.
    Friends - enemies - terrorist (helping I ... L) - friends - (ready to sell SU 57 secret, throw up a gas) - terrorists - friends-friends + enemies ..
    The main thing is the size of the wallet ....

    And you can play hockey with the dad again ...
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 52 New
      -2
      Quote: Alex2000
      Oh, daddy-drain ...

      Let's keep quiet, Russians and Belarusians, one whole, and the rulers come and go.
    2. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 07: 38 New
      +1
      Actually, behavior = money doesn't smell.
      Look at the Kremlin + Endogan.


      Strange as it may seem, Russia-Turkey has a place to be quite normal policy.
      With excesses, as without them.
      But almost adequate policy.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 31 New
        +2
        It is easier to negotiate and deal with a neighbor than with a brother.
      2. Aleks2000
        Aleks2000 6 August 2020 21: 17 New
        +1
        Almost. Who argues. For Capitalism.
        First, Endogan was personally caught in cooperation with Ig..L, then C400 was sold. Etc.
        Business. Nothing personal.
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 30 New
      +1
      The secrecy of the Su-57 is established by experts. Just like any other weapon. And what they write in the internet about someone to sell, so less delirium should be read.
      1. Aleks2000
        Aleks2000 6 August 2020 21: 16 New
        0
        Tse not in the internet They write, Tse words of President Putin to President Endogan.
        You need to be at least a little interested in life.

        But Endogan didn't buy it.
  8. businessv
    businessv 5 August 2020 20: 29 New
    +5
    Some of the same Belarusians are sincerely outraged by the “annexation of Crimea” and the lack of supplies of hydrocarbons in the volumes they want at their desired prices.
    Oleg, thanks for the article, for an interesting look at the neighboring states, as for me. A truly interesting understanding of mutual assistance and mutual cooperation. Crimea is not yours, but we will try to understand you, not recognizing Crimea as Russian, otherwise God forbid, you know the sanctions! Well, what can you say? Western ideologists are doing well, unlike ours!
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 6 August 2020 00: 54 New
      0
      Quote: businessv
      Oleg, thanks for the article

      Although I have discrepancies, I generally agree. Okay.
  9. Ilshat
    Ilshat 5 August 2020 20: 33 New
    0
    but Belarusians and Ukrainians are actively trying to make money on a country for which they have no particularly warm feelings

    Точно так же россияне, которым повезло, работают в США (или Польше, Канаде, нужное подставить... Знаю такого, пишет прошивки для "мерседесов" - да, в Польше) и всяко обличают страну пребывания, поднимая Россию на недосягаемую высоту.
    Но, побывав в России - снова возвращаются на "ненавистный" Запад (Восток).
    There is absolutely no difference between Russia and Ukraine and the potato gulag.
    1. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 07: 39 New
      0
      Точно так же россияне, которым повезло, работают в США (или Польше, Канаде, нужное подставить... Знаю такого, пишет прошивки для "мерседесов" - да, в Польше) и всяко обличают страну пребывания,


      1 Почему "повезло"? Работа есть работа.
      2 Зачем "обличать"? Там не Мордор.
      1. Ilshat
        Ilshat 6 August 2020 08: 27 New
        -3
        The work is very common.
        The salary is not Russian, many times more ...
        That is - really lucky.

        Not Mordor, but a one-sided look is present, exactly as described in the article.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 35 New
      +1
      I, of course, wildly apologize, but this person must be extremely competitive against local Poles, since he occupies their workplace, and a highly profitable one. He lives much better than them. On the other hand, in Russia he will again have to look for a job of a comparable level, and this will not be found quickly. And so in Russia, for example, there are branches of Intel, and who got there, obviously, lives better than 95% of Russians, and Americans too.
      1. Ilshat
        Ilshat 6 August 2020 08: 51 New
        0
        Of course, more than competitive, because he can be paid less than locals.
        Lives better than Polish janitors, but worse than Polish engineers, + no career growth.
        We have something similar in Russia - they recruit shift workers and pay less.
        The bosses are always local.
        And in general, for a good position you need a residence permit.

        PS: Do you know what an ORS brigade is?
        There, often only the master speaks Russian and that is bad.
        But both he and the employees are so competitive that it’s just really!
        The reasons are obvious.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 6 August 2020 09: 31 New
          +1
          Погромист "Мерседеса" хуже местных инженегров? Ню-ню.
          1. Ilshat
            Ilshat 6 August 2020 09: 33 New
            -1
            Well yes...
            There is nothing special, read about Toyota, a common mess ...
            Worse than locals in comparable positions, it was unclear ...

            PS: about the scandal, how the car spontaneously accelerated.
            You will discover a lot of new things and laugh.

            ZYY: not a Mercedes directly, a contractor.
    3. Navel
      Navel 6 August 2020 10: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: Ilshat
      but Belarusians and Ukrainians are actively trying to make money on a country for which they have no particularly warm feelings

      Точно так же россияне, которым повезло, работают в США (или Польше, Канаде, нужное подставить... Знаю такого, пишет прошивки для "мерседесов" - да, в Польше) и всяко обличают страну пребывания, поднимая Россию на недосягаемую высоту.
      Но, побывав в России - снова возвращаются на "ненавистный" Запад (Восток).
      There is absolutely no difference between Russia and Ukraine and the potato gulag.
      Great comment! It clearly shows how far Russians have gone from the worldview of Ukrainians and Belarusians. That's why.
      Russian specialists travel abroad as they are often forced to look for something abroad because of the great competition in the labor market in their homeland. For example, one friend of mine works on radio in the United States (since he could not get a job in Russia due to poor diction), the second pensioner flies to Israel, where at his age and with his specialty it is easier to find a job. But they never say that they were lucky))) They do not even consider leaving for permanent residence, although they have been working over the hill for a long time.
      And for low-skilled gaster of the limitrophic states, work abroad is like manna from heaven. For them, working abroad is not a shame, which is not acceptable for Russians. Poland for the same Belarusians is an exemplary state (I'm not kidding)))
  10. Baloo
    Baloo 5 August 2020 20: 43 New
    10
    Each has its own truth and it leads him his own way. The main question is what does Lukasheska want and what does the GDP want? VVP wants security for us and our neighbors, lukashesku-prosper at someone else's expense, since it does not have a degree in modern economics, but has the experience of a cool preparatory collective farm. Flirting with Amerzians does not end well. So Belarus is waiting for the fate of Ukraine. As the Tatars say: a neighbor is closer to a relative, especially a cowboy with specific goals. Perhaps it is time for Belarusians to think about another president from the military environment, younger with the appropriate education and multilateral experience necessary to govern the country in the current difficult conditions.
    1. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 5 August 2020 23: 33 New
      +4
      Quote: Balu
      Maybe it's time for Belarusians to think about another president from the military environment, younger with the appropriate education and multilateral experience necessary to govern the country in the current difficult conditions.

      Да ведь Лукашенко, все, что говорит, не с потолка берет! Именно генералы ему и "вкладывают в уши" то, что он хочет слышать. А зная его "взрывоопасный" характер и властолюбие, могли спокойно под суетиться и "вложить в уши" то, что нужно заказчику. Разве звание генерал автоматически исключает корысть и предательство?
    2. apro
      apro 6 August 2020 01: 57 New
      -6
      Quote: Balu
      Everyone has their own truth

      Not true ... but monetary interests ... and this is much more important ...
      Quote: Balu
      lukashesku-prosper at someone else's expense,

      Decide at last ... what Russia needs. Or fraternal Belarus or loot for your pocket? Moreover, Russia has abandoned both Belarus and Ukraine.
    3. Ilshat
      Ilshat 6 August 2020 05: 03 New
      -4
      In the same way, the adherent of the lukashka will say that the lukashka wants to preserve a normal life for his people, and pu - plunders the natural resources of Russia in order to unleash senseless wars and build luxurious palaces.
      And he will give enough arguments in his favor: 26 or more residences are completely true.
      And the fact that palaces were built, including for funds plundered from the supply of medical equipment, is also true.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 36 New
        +1
        Will there be proofs, or gasification of a puddle?
        1. Ilshat
          Ilshat 6 August 2020 08: 42 New
          -3
          Don't know how to use a search engine?
          Don't read the news?
          Это вообще-то общеизвестно - "26 дворцов Путина и Медведева. Полный список", https://online812.ru/2011/01/31/003/
          Old, now bigger.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 6 August 2020 09: 35 New
            +2
            А теперь почитай сам свой список "объекты для должностных лиц". По-твоему, Путин и др. крупные чиновники должны в гостиницах останавливаться?
            1. Ilshat
              Ilshat 6 August 2020 09: 42 New
              -2
              Is everything okay with logic?
              How did I write?
              Вот так: "приведёт достаточно аргументов в свою пользу".
              Обоснованность оставляем за кадром, в данном контексте, ведь статья про "вопрос веры".
              About propaganda.
              1. EvilLion
                EvilLion 6 August 2020 11: 02 New
                +1
                These are state facilities, not Putin's. Stalin also had a dacha, and he even visited it. But neither son Vasya, nor daughter Sveta, she did not pass.
                1. Ilshat
                  Ilshat 6 August 2020 11: 16 New
                  -1
                  So what?
                  Which side to the topic of propaganda?
  11. Karaul73
    Karaul73 5 August 2020 20: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Terenin
    That is why it is absolutely senseless to offer something to Belarusians or Ukrainians in the economic sense. All the buns will be eaten, but we won't get any thanks from them. According to their magical ideology, these same buns are simply put to them for the very fact of their existence on this planet.

    No matter how you turn around (gentlemen, neighbors, brothers, half-brothers, or not brothers at all ...), and you will not be able to live and behave on an equal footing with Russia, at the expense of Russia and, spitting on the interests of Russia.

    Py.Sy. ... or at least find oil in your bowels winked

    Yes, a hundred you rush with this oil as with a written sack! The presence of oil in Russia is the greatest evil. The management does not want to use their brains, the industry is dying. There was a hope that we would buy everything we needed for petrodollars. But sanctions have buried those hopes.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 39 New
      +2
      I recommend that you go and open your own business without money. When you succeed, you can go to the ministers and teach Russia how it should live without oil, and at whose expense industrial projects should be financed that require billions at once, several years to build and several more years to work off investments. And before that, you better not write nonsense about oil. The economy is oil, steel, weapons. There is no life without this.
  12. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 5 August 2020 20: 51 New
    0
    "Как известно из истории «холодной войны», пропаганда работала по обе стороны Атлантики, вот только действительно эффективно она работала в Америке, но не в России"
    ------
    I agree with the author, and therefore we lost the cold war 1: 0
    Now it's our turn to learn information warfare ...

    Ideology is one of the highest priorities of generalized management tools.
    Description of private processes and their interconnections is the essence of information of the third priority, which includes the beliefs of religious cults, secular ideologies, technologies and factology of all branches of science.
    The instrument of the cold wars (cultural cooperation) is the imposition of cultural norms, ideology, and lifestyle. Carries out the processing of people's consciousness. An information weapon. Benefits: The power of the impact is enormous. Disadvantage: long duration of action
    1. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 5 August 2020 23: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: Tank jacket
      Now it's our turn to learn information warfare ...

      Minus someone in vain slapped you (corrected), because at the beginning they wrote it correctly, only then everything looks like a lecture for listeners of the Higher Party School. It’s boring and doesn’t give an impetus to develop your own conclusions!
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 6 August 2020 05: 09 New
        0
        The most powerful weapon of information warfare is misinterpretation of facts.
  13. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 5 August 2020 20: 58 New
    12
    I have already written a hundred times about some kind of friendship between peoples.
    Too lazy to repeat. Twelve years ago in Khimki, when I was still a citizen of UA, I had very close contact with my fellow workers from Belarus. We worked / lived together at the same facility. Nationalism flourished to the fullest even then.
    Therefore, I personally do not observe anything beyond natural.
    Sorry if you offended anyone. Right now, the fine is still soldered for kindling ...
    1. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 07: 42 New
      +2
      very closely intersected with comrades from Belarus at work
      Nationalism flourished to the fullest even then.


      The question is not that nationalism. The question is why he is not anti-Polish, for example, namely anti-Russian?
      Belarusian nationalists are very tolerant towards Ukraine, but not towards Russia, and why?
      1. Smirnov Mikhail
        Smirnov Mikhail 6 August 2020 08: 37 New
        +1
        Why are nationalisms around China completely anti-Chinese? And why are Latin America completely anti-American (anti-USA)? Maybe because small nations are afraid of pogrom and genocide / assimilation (which is almost the same thing)?
      2. soloveyav
        soloveyav 6 August 2020 13: 07 New
        +1
        Everything is simple here, the Belarusian nation in at least some massive form was created not so long ago and on the opposition that you are not Russian but a separate people. And the cat smells whose meat it ate, although the Poles did not bother in the interwar period, but polonized the local population (this concerned the majority, although there were Russian schools in the cities, there were no Belarusian ones).
      3. vprnik
        vprnik 6 August 2020 16: 35 New
        0
        The question is not that nationalism. The question is why he is not anti-Polish, for example, namely anti-Russian? В современной истории Беларуси , в частности про Полоцк напиано "русский царь захватил - польский король освободил" . hi Why should he be anti-Polish?
      4. Florian geyer
        Florian geyer 7 August 2020 21: 16 New
        0
        Because they are paid money from there. They would pay from Russia, they would declare themselves super-super-Russian
  14. Dizel200
    Dizel200 5 August 2020 20: 59 New
    0
    but the article is also propaganda)))
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 5 August 2020 21: 26 New
      -1
      And clean water. From the category: dirt does not stick to us, but to others ..!
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 5 August 2020 23: 03 New
        -3
        Quote: rudolff
        From the category: dirt does not stick to us, but to others ..!

        Well, yes, my dirt is clean, and yours is dirty.
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 6 August 2020 06: 30 New
        0
        Will not stick!
        laughing
        Because, according to the author:
        We rely on our own experience, and it is not just not universal, it is unique.
        Вот тут я Мединского с его "лишней" хромосомой и вспомнил!))))...
      3. Olezhek
        6 August 2020 07: 44 New
        +3
        And clean water. From the category: dirt does not stick to us, but to others ..!


        Специально хотелось подчеркнуть вот этот момент: на Украине и в Беларуси нет никакой "фронды" по отношению к официозной русофобской пропаганды. Они её хавают, как не в себя.
        These are the facts, and what is there to be offended at?
        1. Smirnov Mikhail
          Smirnov Mikhail 6 August 2020 08: 34 New
          -3
          So what is the problem with their Russophobia? How does it hurt you personally?
  15. Avior
    Avior 5 August 2020 21: 07 New
    +5
    ... You can productively argue about something

    If the subject of the dispute is preliminarily determined and the rules of argumentation meet the requirements of formal logic, otherwise no productive dispute is fundamentally possible.
    It is clear from the article that the author himself does not understand this, since he does not adhere to the subject matter, nor does he adhere to the rules of formal logic, jumps from topic to topic, piling on hackneyed cliches - just what he talks about at the beginning of the article, he talks article and does - in style there are three opinions - two wrong and one mine smile
    And the author's argument reminds of an anecdote when the wife asked her husband, answered for him and then explains what he was wrong about. smile
    Not an article, but a sketch turned out, only Belorussosrach was added to the usual hohlosrach- New tendency.

    It is very disappointing that the three closest people in mentality, and many believe that in fact, three branches of one people, cannot find a common language among themselves. And the author's article does its bit to ensure that this does not happen in any case.
    1. Uncle Izya
      Uncle Izya 5 August 2020 21: 11 New
      -13
      It is very disappointing that the three closest people in mentality, and many believe that in fact
      this is a myth Belarus was with Russia for only 180 years and with Poland for 500
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 5 August 2020 23: 18 New
        +2
        Quote: Uncle Izya
        this is a myth Belarus was with Russia for only 180 years and with Poland for 500

        Of course it's a myth, Western Belarus was under Poland from 1921 to 1939, but Vel. book Lithuanian - it was a Belarusian-Lithuanian state and was part of the Rzeczpospolita from 1569 to 1795, but not in Poland, but as part of the Lithuanian state.
      2. Nikolai Korovin
        Nikolai Korovin 6 August 2020 00: 32 New
        +5
        Беларусь и Украина были не с Польшей, а под Польшей. Весьма любопытно, как назывались польские поселенцы в Западной Украине и Белоруссии после 1920 года. Красноречивое такое словцо, понятное, я думаю, на всех славянских языках - "осадники". Паны украинцев, то бишь малороссов, и белорусов за людей особо не считали. А если посмотреть на линию Керзона, то она практически полностью соответствует границе Киевской Руси (это не самоназвание, а термин XIX века) X-XII веков, и достались Польше эти территории в результате разгрома Руси монголами, и поглощались Речью Посполитой по мере того, как слабела Золотая Орда и ее руки туда уже не доставали. А к кому ближе украинцы - к русским или полякам - ну хоть Гоголя, что ли, почитайте... Вот у белорусов Гоголя не было, но в принципе, то же самое.

        But for some reason, Curzon separated Lviv to the Poles in 1918, although it was originally a Russian city. Apparently, the Lvov people under Austria-Hungary became too Germanized, and this seemingly objective lord did not perceive them as Russians. Well, since 1920, there was a repeated attempt to pollinate Western Ukrainians and Belarusians as a result of the catastrophe of the Red Army due to the lack of qualified leadership - of course, as slaves. For 20 years the local population got tired of the pans worse than bitter radish, and most of the people were just happy to get rid of them. Now, of course, no one remembers this anymore.

        I visited both Western Ukraine and Western Belarus in the 70s - no one imagined that such a split was possible as it happened. I did not feel any attraction of the locals to Poland. I talked with the locals quite a lot - the attitude was quite loyal. I often visited Kiev, Minsk, Zaporozhye, Sumy - the same thing. Everything is absolutely normal. But in 1989 in the Nikolaev region there were already serious calls. And now, and in general, many have dislocated brains. But there are also many normal people. Do you think the Germans supported Hitler as one? Dudki. He only held on by internal terror, so he needed a war to kill all those who disagree at the front, because the camps were already overcrowded, or at least tightly shut everyone's mouth with victorious marches, and educate young people from childhood to their taste. Approximately the same process is in full swing in Ukraine and slower - in Belarus (I apologize, Belarus is somehow poorly conjugated. Everything seems to be written incorrectly.). But, of course, since a full-fledged war does not work out, the hocus-poke of the dismemberment may not work.
        1. soloveyav
          soloveyav 6 August 2020 13: 13 New
          +2
          I will add another fact - in 1939, the siege workers and police were hanged before the arrival of the Red Army, but it was actually greeted with flowers. True, then by attempts at collectivization and arrests, the attitude worsened, but that's another story.
          1. Nikolai Korovin
            Nikolai Korovin 6 August 2020 13: 42 New
            0
            Do not think that I have a bad attitude towards the Polish people. I do not like pans - I had cases of communication. Better an inveterate Prussian, ya-ya, naturlich. But, of course, not from the SS, but from the Wehrmacht. I had a German student of this kind in the NSO, somehow it was possible to explain with him on various topics. And with the masters - well, nothing. But one of my father's closest friends bore the surname Krzhivitsky, presumably a Pole at least on his father's side, but at one time I did not think about it at all. Well, of course, he completely became Russified, worked all his life at the Sumy Chemical Plant. His son went to the naval military doctors, served in the Far East - it's a pity, the connection was lost. I don’t forget that Rokossovsky is a Pole by nationality. But Tukhachevsky, too, I don't remember exactly.
            1. soloveyav
              soloveyav 6 August 2020 13: 47 New
              +1
              So no one speaks badly about the Poles - there is a lot of blood mixing in the border areas. But they did not like the siege - the land that the locals bought with blood and then they were given just so much.
        2. Florian geyer
          Florian geyer 7 August 2020 21: 21 New
          -1
          В отличие от Белоруссии, сейчас даже у галицайских рогулей никакой тяги к Польше нет. Погуглите - " Лвiв украiнське мiсто"
    2. rudolff
      rudolff 5 August 2020 21: 28 New
      +1
      Avior, you are absolutely right!
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 August 2020 23: 08 New
      -6
      Quote: Avior
      It is very disappointing that the three closest people in mentality, and many believe that in fact, three branches of one people, cannot find a common language among themselves.

      How do you find a common language? Belarus will never find a common language with the Rotenbergs, Mullers, Sechins, and Ukraine does not want to look, for her Uncle Sam is her own father.
    4. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 07: 46 New
      +4
      It is very disappointing that the three closest people in mentality, and many believe that in fact, there are three branches of one people,


      Schaz I will pay the price, especially after the shelling of Donbass. crying
      The forest, ladies and gentlemen. The forest is unique.
      There are not so many fools left in Russia as you would like.

      The guys are just very afraid of a hostile response from Russia to their art
      that's why pestni and dances about a close mentality begin.
      1. Nikolai Korovin
        Nikolai Korovin 6 August 2020 13: 47 New
        +1
        Do not confuse a few percent of thugs with the whole people. Well, of course, the public was thoroughly bullied there, but we must not forget about the millions of Ukrainians who gave their lives at the front, and about the thousands of heroes of the Soviet Union. Three times the hero Kozhedub is a Ukrainian, out of three representatives of the top generals (colonel-general and above), who died at the front, two are Ukrainians. And remember yourself in the late 80s - early 90s. Even smart people seemed to have a mess in their heads and a complete lack of understanding of what was happening. And everything is very similar.
    5. Florian geyer
      Florian geyer 7 August 2020 21: 28 New
      0
      >>>>>>>Очень обидно, что три ближайших по менталитету народа, а многие считают, что на самом деле три ветки одного народа , не могут между собой общий язык найти. А статья автора вносит свою лепту, чтобы этого ни в коем случае не произошло<<<<<<

      Well, that's just fine. How many brothers and sisters squabble and sue for parental inheritance? It often happens that it is easier for strangers to agree than for relatives. As a lawyer, I guarantee 146%.

      Again, history. I think we all remember how the Russian principalities were cut among themselves. By the way, the same Kiev before the Mongols was plundered and burned by Andrey Bogolyubsky
  16. sergo1914
    sergo1914 5 August 2020 21: 15 New
    -8
    I don’t understand. What do we care about them? There were fraternal republics within the USSR. There were. Now sovereign countries. They do what they want. Fuck. What Vovka wants to squeeze out in Belarus is the problem of Vovka. Can't get drunk. Let him re-privatize. It will be funny. But what do we care? Well, except for the oligarchs. But they are not here. Therefore, in bulk in the section about saltpeter. Don't hurt your brain. Myself, first of all.
  17. Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish 5 August 2020 21: 23 New
    -4
    The garbage bucket on duty for Belarus and Ukraine. Well, continue chanting the putrid oligarchy, love Chinese, and you will be completely happy very soon.
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 5 August 2020 22: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Old Horseradish
      The garbage bucket on duty for Belarus and Ukraine. Well, continue chanting the putrid oligarchy, love Chinese, and you will be completely happy very soon.


      What kind of China? We love Uzbeks. And the Israelites. What do you belong to?
      1. Olezhek
        6 August 2020 07: 57 New
        +1
        We love Uzbeks. good

  18. mole
    mole 5 August 2020 21: 34 New
    -6
    Ordering !!!
  19. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 5 August 2020 21: 36 New
    +2
    Hmm. I'm at risk of running into it, but existence in two mutually exclusive paradigms is the norm for us. Even under the USSR, a person could simultaneously be a drummer for communist labor and carry home the unaccounted for the fruits of this very labor. Or in the morning to speak at a party meeting dedicated to the economy, which should be economical, and in the evening to put a bug in the electric meter for this very economy.
    Or now, the same person may be an opponent of the government and a supporter of the president. Or call for the fight against corruption and be a supporter of people who, being in power, were not remembered by anything else.
    1. Nikolai Korovin
      Nikolai Korovin 6 August 2020 00: 37 New
      +2
      The sailors have no questions - if you hit it, it's right in the eye.
  20. Lumpen
    Lumpen 5 August 2020 22: 10 New
    -7
    Conclusion from the article: -we are good, they are all bad!
    No offense to the author.
    1. Lumpen
      Lumpen 5 August 2020 22: 56 New
      -4
      Today Gordon announced an interview with Lukashenka
    2. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 07: 48 New
      +2
      Conclusion from the article: -we are good, they are all bad!
      No offense to the author.


      Good or bad is a category from children's fairy tales about Little Red Riding Hood and the Gray Wolf.
      Politics does not operate with such concepts.
  21. sergo1914
    sergo1914 5 August 2020 22: 15 New
    0
    We cannot understand in any way that propaganda works there and people believe in it.


    And here?
  22. maksud13
    maksud13 5 August 2020 22: 17 New
    -7
    Not an article, but again a set of clichés ... How much heavy oil a year can 1,5 refineries process ??? Or did they not deliver at a loss? Yes, lower than to Germany, so what to deliver at the same price?
  23. aranzon1913
    aranzon1913 5 August 2020 22: 39 New
    +5
    Статья - откровенно провокационная. Доводы и утверждения высосаны из пальца. Цель - сеять рознь между людьми одного языка, истории, культуры. На цензоре такое "чтиво" пошло бы на ура.
    Я белорус, живу и работаю большей частью в России, как и мои родные и знакомые. Никаких "нахлебнических" чувств не испытываю. Свой хлеб зарабатываю своим трудом, слава богу, нас (белорусов) ценят и уважают за отношение к работе, хотя как и везде, не без исключений. Семья не без урода, как и у всех. Никакой идеологии наш народ не подвержен, тем более, основанной на русофобии. Доказательства - многотысячные митинги против действующей власти, которая Россию грязью поливает. Тем, кто боится, что у нас будет Майдан, по образу Украины, ошибаются. Наш народ знает и помнит своих палачей (фашистов и карателей бандеровцев), помнит, кто принес нам свободу от рабства и "нового порядка"
    Millions of those killed at the front and in the rear, in evacuation. This is the price we paid.
    The fact that your politicians, until recently, closed their eyes, to the fact that we have a tyrant-neurasthenic tyrant, does not do them credit. Now they are concerned about it ... The stake must be placed on the people, on people from the opposition who are looking for a way out of our impasse, and not on a schizophrenic usurper who has set up a camp from the country from which people are fleeing in all directions ...
    1. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 08: 05 New
      +2
      Our people are not subject to any ideology, especially those based on Russophobia.


      Uh-huh, only I've been reading Belarusian press every day for the last six years
      Russophobic ideology in Belarus is an official and unofficial standard.
      It's just that the Belarusians themselves are used to it and no longer notice.

      They are not indignant at Russophobic propaganda, but when Russians notice this propaganda ... and then offenses begin ...
      The proof is rallies of many thousands against the current government, which is throwing mud at Russia.


      The opposition in Belarus is even more Russophobic than the authorities: just look at its slogans.


      Our people know and remember their executioners (fascists and punishers of Bandera), they remember


      Yah? belay What is the reaction of Belarusians (official and unofficial) to the SS marches in the neighboring Baltic states ??


      The fact that your politicians, until recently, closed their eyes, to the fact that we have a tyrant-neurasthenic tyrant, does not do them credit.


      Do you have independence there or what?
      Lukashenka has no support in Russia for 12 years already. If not more.
      The fact that he is in power is a problem and a merit of the Belarusians.
  24. likana
    likana 5 August 2020 23: 00 New
    +4
    Everything is written correctly about Belarus, I live here almost all my life ... I was only passing through in Ukraine, I can not judge ... The author is my respect.
  25. The comment was deleted.
    1. Nikolai Korovin
      Nikolai Korovin 6 August 2020 00: 51 New
      +3
      It is difficult to agree with the author as a whole, although something is true. But forgetting that Belarusians and Ukrainians are with Russians from the same root is at least stupid. Dr. Rosenberg was very worried about this issue. The same is about preserving national identity. Whether in the Russian Empire or in the USSR, the authorities did not interfere in local affairs, demanding from the annexed peoples only a moderate tribute (in the Russian Empire) or joint defense work (in the USSR). All the small peoples of Russia-USSR survived. And where, may I ask, dozens of Indian tribes numbering millions of people? Cultural Europeans sinned the same in relation to the Slavs. In East Germany, half of the place names are Slavic. Brandenburg - Branibor, for your information, Elbe - Laba (!). So there is no need for the Russians to be particularly aggressive. Who is our minister of defense, what nationality?
      1. Smirnov Mikhail
        Smirnov Mikhail 6 August 2020 04: 14 New
        -7
        Have you tried to be interested in the opinion of the Belarusians and Ukrainians themselves?

        And yes, which is better, to be an Indian on the reservation with the Anglo-Saxons or a Tatar in Tatarstan with the Russians? Where is there a better chance of preserving yourself as a people?
        1. Nikolai Korovin
          Nikolai Korovin 6 August 2020 10: 36 New
          +1
          I tried it. My mom is half Ukrainian. Her mother, a purebred Ukrainian, died in 1942 in the Kursk Gestapo. Roll sausage along Malaya Spasskaya.
          1. Smirnov Mikhail
            Smirnov Mikhail 6 August 2020 11: 14 New
            -3
            Немцы - это не англосаксы, концентрационный лагерь - это не резервация, и научитесь общаться культурно - на "Вы"..
    2. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 07: 50 New
      +1
      То, что этнические русские являются самим воплощением агрессии, автор не пишет. Потому что аналогии с римлянами, которые изнасиловали все средиземноморье, будут ну уж совсем очевидны. Поэтому дружба, мы пришли к вам с миром и дружескими объятиями, в которых тихо и придушим до уровня "малые народы России". Вопрос банального этнического самосохранения автором вообще не учитывается.


      Tell us about autonomous Belarus before / outside Russia
      Tell us about Ukraine (autonomous within Rzhecha Paspalita), and I will listen carefully.
      1. Smirnov Mikhail
        Smirnov Mikhail 6 August 2020 08: 27 New
        -3
        А зачем? У вас уже есть идеология "московских", другую вы не примите категорически. Вот есть этнические поляки, у них есть этнополитическое образование - Польша. Погром этого образования означает для поляков ассимиляцию. Вот против чего поляки выступают? Правящему классу понятно что терять, а самим полякам что? А ведь жили бы в одной стране с газом и нефтью. Но что-то простые поляки предпочитают нищету и свой политический класс. И смысл вам после этого про Белоруссию и Украину до/вне рассказывать? Вот есть курды, а своего этнополитического учреждения у них нет. А вот они кровью ближний восток заливают. Так там не то, что падение уровня жизни - сдохнуть можно. Хотя чего им в Ираке/Турции/Сирии не хватает? Или тоже пропагандой обработали?

        Вот вы знаете, в чем ваша проблема? В том, что вы и сами верите в сказки про "российский народ/этнос". Что на Украине и в Белоруссии живут русские люди, то есть этнические русские (как максимум - россияне). И что они, в принципе, не против, но их обработали. А так они просто счастливы строить не свое государство, а русским помогать. Но можно и не ходить далеко. Вот как вы думаете, как татары будут относиться к русским и своему государственному суверенитету, когда наконец-то добьются независимости от Москвы после вот таких художеств? Тоже будете на пропаганду валить?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RsILLPinjc

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pHlW4T1lJ4&t=14s

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6520-J3ce28&t=49s

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3CG7kZRBvI&t=45s
        1. Olezhek
          6 August 2020 08: 42 New
          -2
          Is that what the Poles are against? The ruling class understands what to lose, but what is it for the Poles themselves? But they would live in the same country with gas and oil.


          Ни с той ни с другой стороны интереса к этому "прожекту" нет.
          Extremely negative experience of living together in one state

          Well, yes: the Poles have a good economy and a good army, unlike the Belarusians.

          What is the conversation about?
          Ukraine is not France, and Belarus is not Austria or Belgium - alas. And not Poland - it's funny to compare.
          Belarusians like to compare themselves with much more serious states. What's the point? You are not them.

          And so they are just happy to build not their own state, but to help the Russians.


          And have you built a lot in 30 years?
          They didn’t help in the Russians, they helped you.
          You have been eating up the Soviet legacy and Russian aid for thirty years, and now you have reached the edge, and you are shouting about building your own state.
          If at the moment you have zero results of state construction (but in fact, minus, taking into account the initial level of the BSSR and dissolution)
          Then you will not have any state, it will not work.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. soloveyav
              soloveyav 6 August 2020 13: 38 New
              +1
              Why should we use MOV? (although I personally know at the level of the school curriculum, but I do not use it) This is our land, the ancestors of many of us lived here since ancient times. Just do not forget that we are citizens of Belarus of Russian nationality, even according to official statistics, in the region of 800-900 thousand, and we also have rights. And if neither the USSR nor Poland turned our ancestors into Belarusians / Poles, then we will not be given. And yes, learning the language of the owners and adapting to them / merging with them is the lot of the losers, and no one owes anything to the losers, because it is by right of strength that your idols - Ukrainians - assimilate Russians. So there is no need to be indignant - the Kazan Khanate was defeated and annexed.
              1. Nikolai Korovin
                Nikolai Korovin 6 August 2020 14: 19 New
                +1
                В войске Ивана Грозного была немало татар и во главе ряда конных полков - царевичи-чингизиды, перешедшие на службу Московскому царю из-за замятни в Орде (с ходу вспоминается Шах-Али (Шиг-Алей)). Едигер с их точки зрения был узурпатором. Следует отметить, что переход знатных татар на службу Московскому царю был в это время массовым явлением, многие татары пользовались доверием Ивана. Симеон Бекбулатович отнюдь не был марионеткой и имел значительные реальные прерогативы, а взятие Казани - это в довольно значительной степени внутритатарское дело, что современные татарские националисты пытаются преуменьшить. Был царь в Сарае - не стало; теперь царь в Москве. Такой вот поворот темы. Это как русы считали царем Византийского императора (точнее, императора (Западной) Римской империи. "Византия" - изобретение западных ученых XIX века, название, носящее уничижительный характер. Самоназвание византийцев - ромеи).
                Are the Tatars forbidden to speak and study in Tatar, as the Westerners do in relation to the Russians in Ukraine? Almost half of the noble families in the Russian Empire had Tatar roots. It's too lazy to make a large sample, I will name Kutuzov (from Mirza Kutuz), Denis Davydov, Prince Yusupov ... There is no need to quarrel the Russians and Tatars, try to divide what has long since grown tightly. For a long time we have been choking on liberal ideas. Here in the CSO in Moscow I had contact with a group of Tatars. They offered to join them for cultural communication and learn the Tatar language. I, in principle, do not mind, but there is no time. The phone is recorded somewhere.
                1. soloveyav
                  soloveyav 6 August 2020 14: 32 New
                  +1
                  And is someone bothering them now? All the conflicts that were covered in the press were about the fact that Russians are forced to learn the local language. Nobody bothers those who wish. And if we are to assimilate, then the Tatars should do it, as the losing side. And as for the duality and surnames - this is a longtime fun, the gentry wrote out a genealogy for themselves from the Sarmatians, and in Europe they wrote out from the Roman Empire, although not everyone really had roots. But in those days it was more important which king you serve and what faith you are. Some part of the Tatars wants to go to mosques and preserve the old language - for God's sake, but there is nothing to cling to the rest.
                  1. soloveyav
                    soloveyav 6 August 2020 14: 39 New
                    +1
                    And do not confuse ethnicity and nationality. You can come from one nation but assimilate and your children / grandchildren will already be representatives of a different nation. You can't be a quarter Russian or half Jewish, just like you can't be a little pregnant. You can simply be a Russian, Pole, Jew, Tatar, Chechen, or you can not. And leave the problem of your origin to genealogy, that's another topic. Look, the ancestors of many of today's Ukrainians were Russian, but what does it matter if they are already Ukrainians?
                  2. Nikolai Korovin
                    Nikolai Korovin 6 August 2020 14: 43 New
                    +1
                    Noble pedigrees are not such an empty fun, although, of course, there were a lot of people who wanted to start a decent pedigree as soon as they advanced. But Kutuzov - actually from Mirza Kutuz, Prince Yusupov - from Mirza Yusuf ... In the 1812th-XNUMXth centuries, having Tatar roots was not considered particularly prestigious, but family traditions persisted. Of course, all the noblemen - the descendants of the Tatars - became Russified to one degree or another, as a rule, quite significant, at least sometimes completely. But this process lasted centuries. But Denis Davydov took himself away from Genghis Khan. I don't know for sure if this is so. This did not prevent him from being a hero of XNUMX and a Russian poet.
                    1. soloveyav
                      soloveyav 6 August 2020 14: 52 New
                      +2
                      You yourself admit that they have become Russified - they have ceased to be Muslims, they have Russian names, they were brought up in Russian culture. After a couple of generations, few genes and a beautiful story remained from the Tatar ancestor. And yes, the origin does not prevent a person from being a hero - there were enough heroes of non-Russian origin in the history of Russia.
                      In the west of Belarus, for example, we have enough people who are a quarter or even half Pole by blood - but they are not Catholics and do not consider themselves Poles.
              2. Smirnov Mikhail
                Smirnov Mikhail 6 August 2020 20: 00 New
                -3
                Why do you use English in the USA and don't download your license?
                1. soloveyav
                  soloveyav 6 August 2020 20: 19 New
                  +3
                  According to your logic, the United States should speak the languages ​​of the Indians, they are also indigenous. And if we talk about the indigenous - the dialects of the south of Belarus differ from the literary language very much, there are many words from Yiddish and Polish in the language, in the villages they often say differently. And who is more indigenous, you can argue - before WW2 Belarusians in the cities were minuscule - Jews, Russians, Poles mostly. Not to mention the fact that Belmova somehow took shape in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and was implanted in the 20s and 30s, largely artificially - as soon as in 1958 it was allowed to choose the language of instruction, most schools switched to Russian and another translation happened only in early 90s - by the way, also forced. They learn the language of the winner - but I don’t remember that we lost to local nationalists - on the contrary, since 1995 we have Russian state language and on demand information must be brought to me in any state language. And the nationalists cannot win honestly and try to force Stalin, in the best traditions of their unloved Stalin. And by the way, the opposite example - in Ireland, state English, but try to tell them that they are English))).
                2. soloveyav
                  soloveyav 6 August 2020 20: 38 New
                  +2
                  And with the Tatars it’s simple - that Tatarstan is part of the Russian Federation where the Russian state, and not vice versa. And they do not have the right to force the Russians, but at the same time everyone has the right to study Tatar.
            2. ghby
              ghby 6 August 2020 13: 40 New
              +2
              Цитата: Смирнов Михаил
              And the same will happen to the Tatars. Because Russians categorically disdain to learn the Tatar language and assimilate. And the presence of Russians hinders the development of the state, because the latter is an ethnopolitical formation.

              forgive what state? are you from a parallel universe?
              1. Smirnov Mikhail
                Smirnov Mikhail 6 August 2020 20: 01 New
                -3
                Which is Tatarstan, Chuvashia, Mari El, Bashkortostan, Udmurtia, Mordovia, and so on ...
  26. Gato
    Gato 5 August 2020 23: 42 New
    +1
    Can an ordinary person simultaneously look at the problem from different points of view? More often than not, no. And even Dr. Watson is not.

    Why? Schizophrenia has not yet been canceled.
    By the way, about Dr. Watson anecdote:
    Watson reads the crime chronicle:
    - Oh, Holmes, look, Leistred is completely mad, he walks on his head!
    - Watson, you need to walk more. Try turning the newspaper over.
  27. iouris
    iouris 6 August 2020 00: 00 New
    +1
    Какие парадоксы идеологии? Особенно там, где официально идеологии нет. Если исследуешь идеологию, то не надо примешивать сюда нефть. Надо постараться понять интерес. Ибо "всякая идея, которая отрывается от интереса, неизбежно посрамляет себя" (один известный классик).
    1. Olezhek
      6 August 2020 07: 51 New
      +1
      What are the paradoxes of ideology? Especially where there is no official ideology. If you are researching ideology, then you don't have to mix oil here.


      Quite the opposite is true - the author stubbornly argues that economic preferences by themselves do absolutely nothing.
  28. Keer
    Keer 6 August 2020 00: 30 New
    0
    Yes, no, it is not necessary to imagine people as fully suggestible, it is clear that the body is a box and the like ... How to push them on the path of a critical attitude to information, and whether this contributes to the development of our species is a question.
    Somehow I did not select, in the course of evolution, the type of people with analytical thinking.
  29. Incompetent
    Incompetent 6 August 2020 01: 36 New
    +3
    Yes, Russia lost, fell apart! Inert reactions after the collapse influenced society + propaganda + the real state of affairs (the West lives richly, and Russia still cannot uncover itself, which is even more salary in the fucking Baltic states)
    Люди устали от нищеты и воровства и смотрят на "врагов" поэтому такое раздвоение мышления. Здесь обвинять людей не стоит, а стоит взяться за укрепление России, а в дальнейшем люди сами буду хотеть обратно!
  30. tatra
    tatra 6 August 2020 05: 54 New
    +1
    Unfortunately, during the anti-Soviet Perestroika, the territory of the USSR was captured by people with low intelligence, a poor plebeian mentality, who only need to destroy, destroy, instill anger and hatred. Is this what they will achieve by spiteful against Lukashenka in Belarus and Russia? And only that a person will come to power instead of Lukashenko, under whom everything will only get worse, both for Belarus and the Belarusian people, and in relations between Belarus and Russia.
    1. Darkesstcat
      Darkesstcat 6 August 2020 06: 41 New
      +3
      Sound thought. The funny thing is that in fact Lukashenka was convinced in his time to seize power from those who seized in perestroika.
  31. Irina Sinyavskaya
    Irina Sinyavskaya 6 August 2020 08: 41 New
    +1
    I am always confused when it comes to some kind of generalization: why is the position of a particular politician or interlocutor on the Web transferred to the whole people or nation? In the end, we all come from the USSR and we shouldn't forget that: those who hide lies behind words just speak loudly.
  32. Karaul73
    Karaul73 6 August 2020 08: 52 New
    -2
    Quote: EvilLion
    I recommend that you go and open your own business without money. When you succeed, you can go to the ministers and teach Russia how it should live without oil, and at whose expense industrial projects should be financed that require billions at once, several years to build and several more years to work off investments. And before that, you better not write nonsense about oil. The economy is oil, steel, weapons. There is no life without this.

    So you can't live well with oil either. Last friends turn their backs on you.
  33. EvilLion
    EvilLion 6 August 2020 08: 57 New
    +1
    American propaganda had one difference, it promised neither communism by 1980, nor happiness. America is a land of opportunity with no guaranteed results. Normal Protestant morality. The strangeness of the Americans is that they are well aware that their state is crappy, and they portray it very often in culture, dystopia has always been popular there, but on the other hand, you have to go to die for this state somewhere in Indochina or Iraq. And the world around is just comic books Saddam Husseins, who are evil because they are evil. Whoever saw them there in the USA, as well as strange Russians with their communism.

    Просто посмотрите фильм "Гроздья гнева", именно фильм, потому что в книге "хэппи-энда" нет. Фильм с одной стороны показывает трагедию фермерской семьи, которой сказали валить из дома, с другой, семья как-то устраивается в трудовом лагере, все счастливы. Нету никакой рефлексии и попыток понять, а почему то, что случилось, вообще случилось. Хотя в Великую депрессию, когда писался роман и снималось кино, таких вот бомжей были миллионы. Неприятности происходят сами собой, как стихийное бедствие, но не как неизбежный результат кризисов капиталистической системы. Вот у японцев, наверное, такое же отношение к землетрясениям, они есть, ничего не сделаешь. Потрясло, отстроились, живем дальше, рисуем аниме, пьем сакэ, работаем по 56 часов в неделю. До следующего землетрясения.
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 6 August 2020 09: 43 New
      +2
      Belarus, as it were, chose a “very own” concept, it is quite convenient for them inside it, but it practically does not fit with the Russian one.
      The whole tragicomicism of the current situation in Belarus, in my opinion, is that (with the constant patronage and cover of the Russian Federation in one form or another) Lukashenko built in modern Belarus not an analogue of modern Putin's Russia in miniature as one might expect - no !!! He built an enclave of the USSR in miniature - such a huge reserve of the past !!! State named after itself beloved !!!

      And any contacts with the West and especially with Maidan Ukraine are actually fatal for Lukashenka's state - and this was clear back in 2014 !!! Therefore, it is very strange why the President of Belarus is so persistently and consistently sawing the branch on which he is sitting !!!
  34. Andrey Posietsev
    Andrey Posietsev 6 August 2020 09: 59 New
    +2
    Все верно. Задолбали эти басни о братских народах. Вот, дескать, украинский братский народ поднимется... Вот братский белорусский народ не позволит... Все братские народы продадут нас за безвиз. И не надо им внушать, что они будут при этом рабами на польских галерах. Все равно это намного лучше, чем у многих сейчас есть. А уж прорвавшись в Европу, можно и полноценно со временем устроится. А всем нашим патриотическим даунам, как и всем там в Москве, пора понять, что единственный союзник России - это ее народ. Который надо холить и лелеять! И не надо трындеть о братстве, которое нам обходится в копеечку. Тратьте все на свой народ. Не надо размазывать маленький кусочек масла на всех. Сделайте жизнь своего народа достойной. Тогда и "братья" подтянутся.
  35. depressant
    depressant 6 August 2020 10: 21 New
    +4
    We'll have to remind you what the relations with Belarus are based on today.
    By the end of March 2020, Russia is the owner of the Belarusian debt in the amount of $ 7,9 billion, which accounted for 38% of the total external debt of Belarus. Taking into account the debt to the Eurasian Fund for Stabilization and Development, the total debt of Belarus to Russia reaches almost 50% of its total external debt.
    According to the IMF, Russia's oil policy towards Belarus from 2005 to 2015 cost Moscow a loss of $ 100 billion, since oil supplies to refineries in Belarus are duty-free.
    Наши правительственные деятели, смущаясь и пряча глаза, называют в качестве подарка "всего" 50 млрд $. Батька глаза не прячет, он активно хочет ещё. Потому что якобы испарившаяся половина от 100 млрд, то есть 50 млрд $, по мнению президента белорусского Научно-исследовательского центра Мизеса -- Ярослава Романчука, осела в российско-белорусских олигархических карманах как неучтенка. Надо полагать, в карманах Батьки -- тоже. Злой интернет говорит, что Лукашенко очень богат.
    "Эти ресурсы использовали, с одной стороны, белорусские компании, с другой стороны, их российские партнеры, -- заявил Романчук. -- Таким образом, так называемый белорусский интеграционный грант от России является следствием организации номенклатурно-коммерческого силового бизнеса, который по отдельным информационным источникам делили: 70% — российским участникам, 30% — белорусским участникам."
    Russian and Belarusian kraduns were strangled by a toad. But the toad also strangled the Russian budget, which has been steadily falling over the past 6 years! So Putin, which is understandable. And given the global crisis covered by the coronavirus, it is even more understandable.
    And oil subsidies are a thing of the past. The tax maneuver, gradually launched by Russia six years ago, lowered the export duty on energy carriers and increased the fiscal burden on mining companies. As a result, prices for raw materials for Belarus increased, and Father, sadly assessing the budget losses at $ 11 billion over six years, demanded compensation.
    Ah well?!?
    Well, they stopped the oil supply and reluctantly sat down at the negotiating table on the Russian side - remember?
    Но о возобновлении халявы ни для их, ни для нашего номенклатурно-коммерческого бизнеса договорится не удалось, напоминает директор Центра исследований постиндустриального общества Вячеслав Иноземцев, так что о былых объемах помощи Минску сейчас говорить не приходится: "Стороны не смогли прийти к соглашению по поводу новой цены нефти в первом квартале, в результате в январе поставки прекратились. Только внутри в рамках небольшой квоты поставят меньше 20% общего объема обычных поставок первого квартала. Фактически вся эта маржа, которую Беларусь получала за счет переработки или экспорта российских энергоносителей, в этом году, по сути, отсутствует".

    This is the main thing. There is no money, the budgets of both countries cannot hold out, the nomenklatura-commercial business on both sides is grinding its teeth with the Old Man, and all our groans about the brotherhood of peoples, long excursions into history, who was lying under whom, who owes what to whom, and which of us is more dear people - everything from the evil one. The crisis we have now is economic. The one that was predicted long ago, and the Russian side began to prepare for it in advance.
    And further. Have you agreed to disconnect? Well, let's go! It would be nice to sweep Asian guest workers out of our territory - well, $ 14 billion is exported annually!
    Pessimistic about the prospect of warm relationships at the level of family trips back and forth? Certainly! The historical process is always angry in relation to the past. Another launched.
  36. Cristall
    Cristall 6 August 2020 11: 06 New
    -2
    well yes. What can you argue with the author if he
    1-sees everything as he wants
    2-counts all sins except himself
    For us, the attempts of Belarus to receive huge amounts of cheap oil from Russia and feed the diesel fuel obtained from this oil, Bandera, look wild and immoral, but this is for us. They already have a different morality and a different logic. They are not like us.

    one quote contains a description of the entire article
    And lies and propaganda. And we are the best and they are bad
    The lie is that this is all trading, not receiving.
    Propaganda - Bandera. But we will accuse Ukrainians and citizens of Belarus of flat thinking. Only they are zombified by the TV.
    And most importantly.
    So the RB is bad - the Bandera people are feeding ...
    А то что великая и скрепная хорошая РФ больше всего топлива продала(ах да подкормила) "бандеровцев" чем РБ, жто все упустим. У нас же речь о плохой РБ...И хорошей РФ. КОторая таким ну не занимается.Ни банками., ни выплатами, ни топливом..Нен--это все РБ
    Considering that of all the countries taken, most of all for propaganda (you cannot call it otherwise) is the most money received in the Russian Federation, but it is somehow clumsy (all are bad, we are Dumas heroes).
    The characteristics were given to Ukrainians. I did not get into one. Probably lying to myself, I don't live there.
    And the scenario where everyone is bad and the Russian Federation is all in white was already .. in 2013/14.
    And even now, it's just that Ukraine / USA / Jews are to blame .. The Republic of Bashkortostan is sipping it. There is little action. It is even cooler.
    I once said that at such a pace, Tver will be accused of not being like Moscow, because such a policy is easy. Eastern Europe is not like us and bad
    Ukraine is bad, RB, bad ... Kaliningrad will be bad and it will be expensive to feed it ..
    And they are not Russian ... and not ours.
  37. Sfurei
    Sfurei 6 August 2020 11: 17 New
    0
    Great article ... !!! good I was very pleased, I will send a couple of my friends who also have a duality of thinking in a direction favorable to themselves)))
    1. Olezhek
      7 August 2020 11: 55 New
      0
      who also have a duality of thinking in a favorable direction for themselves)))


      Chitropopost is another diagnosis, much more positive
  38. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 6 August 2020 11: 43 New
    +3
    Ну справедливости ради -мы по дешмане нефть туда поставляли не за красивые глаза и не за какое то братство) А за вполне конкретные политические преференции и формальный вассалитет. Когда у нас при том что мы газом торгуем еще значительная часть страны негазифицирована , мысль о том, что "Россия-щедрая душа" как то не приживается ! Мы увязывали свои ресурсы с какими то мутными политическо-интеграционными инициативами подобно драгдиллеру, который охотно подгоняет пробнички богатеньким буратинкам . Это довольно мерзковато , между прочим.
    But this is only one facet of the question. Another facet should be that we live under capitalism. And all these games on yesterday and the day before yesterday the Great Patriotic War - this is a very unhealthy subject, from the point of view of an objective perception of reality. We called the Ukrainians brothers, now they are somehow not really .. we call the Belarusians brothers - and maybe this is a mistake? Maybe this is a raid of our propaganda, our illusion, all these cute lamp posters from the old days?
    I have many acquaintances of Ukrainians and Belarusians - but friendship is friendship, and their country has been separate for 30 years. With its taxes, pensions, blackjack and journalists. And a solid part of their well-fed, measured life now depends on our country, where they sell their products or not, whether they go to work or not, buy some resources on the cheap or not. So while there are some preferences, indulgences and related requirements, these are relations of convenience.
    And it seems to me that this shop with expanded packages should be closed - market prices, market relations. All this purchased vassalage is rotten and unpredictable - money cannot buy friendship, and friendship of peoples is no exception.
  39. Andvigor
    Andvigor 6 August 2020 14: 29 New
    +1
    По этому пытаться создать реальный союз РФ&РБ не получится. Отношения должны быть прагматичным и партнёрскими. Утром деньги - вечером стулья, и всё!
  40. Dmitry Ageev
    Dmitry Ageev 6 August 2020 17: 07 New
    +1
    В 91м, когда СССР разваливался, в голове украинца, белоруса и т.д. была правильная картина: "Вот сейчас избавимся от Московского диктата и заживем. По началу, в 90х, все шло этой схеме: Россия катилась вниз, а "мы" пусть не жируем но не голодаем слава богу. Но вдруг все пошло не так. Россия встает с колен, а принять это мозг отказывается. Ну не мог я тогда так ошибаться!
  41. Terenin
    Terenin 6 August 2020 19: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: georgiigennadievitch
    Некий комплекс вины.Типа"мы в ответе пред теми кого приручили" поэтому то,что у нас(в основном ресурсы,по нерыночным низким ценам,а на наш внутренний рынок двери для них распахнуты настеж- приходите со своим пусть даже и не очень качественными товарами,даже в ущерб российскому производителю,присылайте своих гастарбайтеров на заработки даже в ущерб собственным работникам) и т.д.

    Ну, вот и дай бог им процветания и успеха. А мы "будем посмотреть", коль они, считая себя равными России, могут обойтись без ее торговли, протекционизма и т.д.
    Если им запад и Китай приглянулись, так это ж только смена "точки зависимости" и всё!
    What does it change for them? request It'S Nothing!
    Better than Russia, their mentality will not understand any West and China-pollock.
  42. vavilon
    vavilon 7 August 2020 09: 51 New
    -1
    I read the article carefully, what can we say? Another order is obvious for brainwashing why we are good and all others are bad and why they are not like us.
    As for propaganda of various kinds, the author would like to say that I rely only on my own life experience, how I lived and what I saw in the sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties, and what I see now, how people thought at that time and how they think now.
    I was blocked for a "censor" and here is something similar, but only softer, as soon as you write a comment that is undesirable to the course conducted by our would-be rulers, they immediately give you a bunch of minuses, the impression is that this happens automatically.
    .
    1. Olezhek
      7 August 2020 11: 54 New
      0
      I read the article carefully, what can we say? Another order is obvious for brainwashing why we are good and all others are bad and why they are not like us


      1 You have not read the article carefully
      2 You read it but did not understand

      One out of two.
      1. vavilon
        vavilon 7 August 2020 12: 13 New
        -1
        You perceive me from one angle in another and it will take a lot of effort and time to fully comment on the article, and I have neither desire nor time for that.
  43. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 7 August 2020 11: 22 New
    0
    Смеялся, искренне и весело. Автор статьи разоблачает "зашоренное мышление", пропаганду, парадигмы везде всовывает, находясь в плену одной из не самых широких и, чего уж там, не самых умных идеологических конструкций. Первое, на что направлена атака врагов человечества (которые считают себя как раз первыми друзьями, вождями этого человечества, думают о себе как о носителях обширного знания и широкого видения реального мира), это критическое мышление. И автор - одна из жертв атаки, хотя себя он считает стоящим над схваткой.
    According to the attitudes by which the author lives, there is a certain separate spherical person in a vacuum. And influences are circling around him, and what will prevail, a spherical person is filled with such content. From here follows a spherical conclusion - it is necessary to influence more powerfully and more correctly than everyone else! Then we'll win! Oh-ho-ho ...
    Всю престидижитацию разоблачать лень и некогда. Возьму лишь кусочек. Человек, это очень, очень ДРЕВНЕЕ устройство. То, что нынешний вариант цивилизации до смешного молод, еще не значит, что... Впрочем, я отвлекся. Почему люди так легко поддаются пропаганде, и почему они "меняют мышление"? Потому что они не поддаются и не меняют.
    Вопрос в том, что человек - общественное существо, имеющее где то миллион лет опыта в выживании. Как удавалось выжить этот миллион лет? Конструкция отточена давным давно. Люди собираются вокруг вождей, которые имеют мужество и ум вести их куда то. Вожди, при помощи не таких уж хитрых методов, собирают и перерабатывают данные об окружающем мире, вырабатывая управленческие решения. А все люди, которые собрались вокруг них, следуют этим решениям! Именно так удалось прийти из глубины веков, это абсолютно лучшая система, дающая человечеству шанс. Так что люди не перепрограммированы. Они просто следуют зап лидерами. "Права она или нет, она МОЯ КОРОЛЕВА". И все.
    Безумные идеи, которые обуревают ныне "глубинное государство", совершенно дурацкая и полностью нежизнеспособная ходуля демократии, все это и прочие извращения мы получили потому, что сэр Френсис Бэкон когда то запустил концепцию научного мышления. Инженеры были и до него, но получив в руки и головы эту фантастически эффективную концепцию, эти люди сильно не сдержались)
    Thanks to engineers and scientists, our world has become so safe and productive that, after hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years of ruthless survival, clearly stillborn social ideas and constructions have a chance for life. And we observe around the whirling of absolutely stupid, non-viable, escheat structures, born mainly on the tip of a pen by people who, in fact, cannot, have no right to invent such constructions. They have neither intelligence, nor strength, nor experience for this. And stupid conceit and a thirst for power is! Thanks to the engineering and scientific base, all these creepy, in principle non-viable structures exist and poison the surrounding reality. And atomic weapons preserve the situation, preventing this plague from being carried away by war ...
  44. Maxim L
    Maxim L 7 August 2020 12: 22 New
    0
    Nonsense, not an article. The author does not even come close to understanding what is happening in Belarus and what the Belarusian people think about. Belarusians now think not about Russia, but about how Lukashenka got them
    1. Sergey Egorov_2
      Sergey Egorov_2 8 August 2020 17: 44 New
      0
      Fig knows him. We cannot judge this without living there. We receive distorted information from any media. Therefore, we ourselves have to look for grains of reality and based on this, analyze situations. Any situations. And try, if possible, only to take into account the dry residue, which falls out only after some time. Judged by the results of the past.
      1. Maxim L
        Maxim L 13 August 2020 17: 28 New
        -1
        I am Belarusian. I live in Misnka. Complete tin is going on. The Internet was turned off for 3 days. If you are interested, I will write what is happening. You can ask questions in PM
  45. Junior Sergeant V.E.
    Junior Sergeant V.E. 7 August 2020 13: 24 New
    0
    Всё что делает Лукаш он делает во благо социальной политике, во благо простого народа. Поэтому инженеры, врачи учителя в чести, а не богачи и шоубиз, и ровно по этому в РБ нет олигархов. Бывает сильно перегибает палку опять же во имя выполнения социальных обязательств. До конца года если его скинут, то уже в следующем году и народ РБ и соседи почувствуют все "прелести" либерастни.
  46. pro100y.belarus
    pro100y.belarus 7 August 2020 14: 58 New
    0
    You Russians cannot be understood. All these years you openly supported Kolya's dad, hugged, patted on the shoulder, laughed together at the election results, ate porridge at the same table ... And then, bam - we are bad. We have become Russophobes, non-brothers.
    But you yourself nurtured this dragon. Time to collect stones.
    Belarusians vote for those candidates who stand for friendly relations with all neighboring countries. And only one candidate is ready to fight all (you know - who). And, unfortunately, and with your tacit consent, he will win.
  47. RUnnm
    RUnnm 8 August 2020 09: 41 New
    -2
    And I have another question - what is the ideology of US ??? !! How do we want to see our future generations? We just pass the law on patriotic education and that's it? And we continue to dull people through TV, through forms, and not through content? We do not build a new society that thinks and is responsible for our decisions, but create a manageable mass at the expense of external images, symbols, pictures ... we do not create a worthy ideology, we only change the external manifestations of the emptiness killed in our heads
  48. Sergey Egorov_2
    Sergey Egorov_2 8 August 2020 17: 38 New
    0
    We got a lot of perestroika and the 90s. And with some difficulty we got out of there. We have something to compare with and the repetition of what was we do not want under any sauce. But what will happen next is a question ...
  49. Dod Income
    Dod Income 8 August 2020 21: 16 New
    +1
    все вобщем то понятно только и им братьям пора понять что рф не дойная корова и если не в федерации и союзе, то "не простудившись чирей не вскочит" ... как и без труда не вытащить ту самую рыбку из пруда. А на взаимовыгодной основе стоит всем того чтоб договариваться, но не стращать братской любовью когда и как захочется = Не надо было из Союза выскакивать!
  50. AleBors
    AleBors 11 August 2020 10: 34 New
    0
    Straight by Orwell ... Doublethink in ideology.