Military Review

"Object 195" and "Object 640": what got the T-14 "Armata" tank from unrealized projects

56

In the Soviet Union, and then in Russia, work did not stop to create new tanks, which could come to replace the existing ones. The most famous of the latest developments are the machines with the working designations "Object 195" and "Object 640". In these projects, the designers proposed new solutions that had not previously been used in tank building, but that significantly improve the characteristics of tanks and their combat effectiveness.


However, as we know, both projects were closed. We will not consider the reasons for this today, but will smoothly move on to the last project that is currently being implemented - the T-14 Armata MBT.

After the closure of work on the promising tanks "Object 195" and "Object 640", information appeared that a number of ideas and solutions that were tried to implement in these projects will be applied to create a promising T-14 "Armata" tank.

Due to the secrecy of all projects, we can only guess what is used in the "Armata" from promising tanks. However, something can still be told based on the available official data, as well as media publications.


Object 195 and Object 640

The first public display of the newest promising T-14 Armata tank took place in 2015. The new tank immediately gave rise to a lot of rumors and assumptions, since there was practically no data about it. However, even in appearance, there was a certain similarity with the developments of the Ural Design Bureau of Transport Engineering from Nizhny Tagil ("Object 195") and the Omsk Design Bureau of Transport Engineering ("Object 640"). Still, the main similarity of all three tanks is located inside.

Although both discontinued projects provided for the reworking of the traditional layout of the tank, enhancing the protection of the crew, the T-14 "Armata" still borrowed most of the ideas from the T-95 "Black Eagle" tank being developed in Nizhny Tagil. In particular, the armored capsule for the crew, isolated from the rest of the vehicle, and the automated fighting compartment are taken from the Object 195. Omsk Object 640, by the way also called the Black Eagle, had a more classical scheme, providing for the placement of the entire crew below the roof of the hull, but there was no isolated armor capsule on it, as well as an uninhabited fighting compartment.

Also, all three projects are similar in layout and chassis design. Unlike their predecessors, they have a chassis with seven road wheels on each side instead of the "traditional" six. This is due to the increase in combat weight and hull size. However, if in the "Object 195" and "Object 640" a "classic" torsion bar suspension was used, at least so it is stated, then on the T-14 "Armata" an active suspension with an automatic suspension system is used, which allows not to significantly reduce the speed of the tank when driving off-road.

But the armament of the T-14 "Armata" was taken from the Omsk project, which, in principle, does not differ from the traditional one. The "Armata" is equipped with a 125-mm 2A82 cannon, as well as two machine guns - coaxial and anti-aircraft. Unlike the Object 640, a 152-mm cannon was installed on the Nizhniy Tagil machine, as well as a 30-mm 2A4 automatic cannon to attack objects for which a 152-mm gun would be redundant.

And, of course, armor protection. Both projects provided for the protection of the tank not only with its own armor using dynamic, but also the installation of active protection. The same method is applied in the Armata tank, the complex of dynamic protection "Malachite" and active protection "Afganit" is added to its armor. In addition, the T-14 has enhanced mine protection of the bottom and is equipped with means of remote disposal of explosive devices. Do not forget that the "Armata" also has the "last frontier" - the armored capsule itself, which protects the crew.

Perhaps not only all of the above was borrowed by "Armata" from its predecessors. We can find out only by looking inside the tank and familiarizing ourselves with its detailed characteristics. But I think this will have to wait for a long time.

At the moment, we can hope that the new generation T-14 "Armata" tank has taken all the best from other projects, and this will allow it to remain one of the most effective tanks in the world for a long time.
Author:
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of Russia
56 comments
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 3 August 2020 15: 49 New
    11
    It is not indicated at all that there was an X-shaped engine at the 195th object, there was an uninhabited tower.
    And the article seems to be about what got to Armata. request
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 3 August 2020 15: 51 New
      10
      Not an article, but fortune telling on the coffee grounds. What happened? What has become? Than the heart will calm down ...
      We know little, but we won't tell you that either!
    2. Constanty
      Constanty 3 August 2020 16: 36 New
      +2
      X-shaped, it was already installed on the experimental tank "Object 187" model number 4 in the mid-80s.
  2. Constanty
    Constanty 3 August 2020 16: 11 New
    -11
    Used in "Armata" not only solutions of new Soviet / Russian, but also foreign buildings - the chassis with seven road wheels on each side, the armored capsule for the crew, isolated from the rest and the automated fighting compartment were taken rather not from the "Object 195". Omsk "Object 640" a American - Tank Test Bed TTB from 1984 - it was just faster than 195 or 640




    For the Americans, the TTB ended with a prototyping stage, and the Russians created a combat-ready tank of a new generation - a big difference.
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 3 August 2020 16: 20 New
      +7
      Constantine - what part of the information about the American development did we have in the form of this or that information? It is now easy to compare, but then the secrecy regime was the highest, and your example is just a theory, because until now we do not know everything about the development and "stuffing" of the prototype.
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 3 August 2020 16: 31 New
        +1
        I do not know how much was known about these works in those years, but the Americans rather quickly (1995) wrote about them in the public press, for example
        Sharoni, A., H., Bacon, L., D., "Ammunition Loading Systems for Future Tanks", Armor, March-April, 1995




        ... In addition, there is intelligence - the Soviet really could have done a lot.
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 3 August 2020 16: 46 New
          +7
          Remember that time, we hardly fought off the militants in Chechnya, the country was at an economic peak, the appearance of the object of 640 Omsk residents at the training ground was a great feat of the defense industry. By the way, in the first version, the tank had 6 kotkov, that is, it was created on a standard gage from T72, but with a different base, and then a 7 kotk chassis was created. ..
          1. Dzungar
            Dzungar 16 August 2020 14: 26 New
            0
            By the way, in the first version, the tank had 6 kotkov, that is, it was created on a typical gage from T72,
            object 640 Black Eagle was created ON THE BASIS OF TANK T-80, WITH ITS RUNNING PART INCLUDING, AND NOT FROM T-72 ..... Omsktransmash ALWAYS BUILD T-80 ..... And the word. KATKI is written with A ...
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 3 August 2020 18: 43 New
          +2
          I will not argue with you categorically! Because for the first time I learned about the placement of the crew in "armored capsules" with an uninhabited tower, about the placement of a tank gun without a tower on a rotating platform, about an X-shaped diesel engine and much more, which is now often declared "innovation" after reading the magazine "Foreign Military Review" in the end of the last century ...
          1. Constanty
            Constanty 3 August 2020 19: 06 New
            +1



            As for the X-shaped tank diesel engines, this is a photo of the engine above the SGP Sla 16 (Porsche Type 203) X-16 Tank Engine from 1943/44.
            Most of the Sla 16 parts, tools and equipment were captured by the Soviet Union at the end of World War II. I do not think that the similarities with the Chelyabinsk engines are accidental. Simply based on German design, a new proprietary engine was developed by observing and developing previous solutions.
            Rational correct approach
    2. Dzungar
      Dzungar 16 August 2020 14: 21 New
      0
      Used in "Armata" not only solutions of new Soviet / Russian, but also foreign buildings - the chassis with seven road wheels on each side, the armored capsule for the crew, isolated from the rest and the automated fighting compartment were taken rather not from the "Object 195".
      If the T-14 is built at the same factory, from the same design bureau, with the same design as object 195, WHY WILL IT BE SOON from the Tank Test Bed TTB ...? Could it be that the primitive outward resemblance, as well as the resemblance to object 195, prompted you to such a "brilliant" thought ...?
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 16 August 2020 15: 51 New
        0
        Why is it believed that the T-14 is the same design as the object 195? The T-95 project was first reported in 1995, and Russian official sources announced it in 2000. According to published sources, the development of a new tank called "Object 195" began at the Uralvagonzavod design bureau in the early 1990s.
        So I have been repeating the Tank Test Bed TTB since 1984 - it was just faster than 195 or 640 and, rather, the same plant, from the same design bureau, with the same design as the object 195, the idea was taken from an American demonstrator - anyway , I do not see anything wrong with this The AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifle was borrowed from the StG-44 (which does not mean that it is a copy !!!), the lock design is from the American Garand - but the final effect is calculated in the same way as that of the Armata - ok, he used solutions from the T-95 / T-195, but they, in turn, were the development of TTB, in my opinion
        1. Dzungar
          Dzungar 19 August 2020 14: 43 New
          0
          By your strange logic, the design of the Mercedes-Benz is borrowed from some antique cart for the reason that it also has four wheels. The designers of the T-14 personally whispered in your ear what and where did they borrow from ..? What has now allowed you to categorically assert that the T-14 was borrowed from some kind of incomprehensible garbage .... Absolute judgments, in the absence of 100 percent confidence in the reliability of the information, a sign of which is in the know ...? You need to scratch statues in Yandex Zen, there are a lot of such empty talkers ...
          1. Constanty
            Constanty 19 August 2020 15: 07 New
            0
            Since you write like this, I understand that you have strong evidence for your opinion? - because what you wrote does not mean this, and also just an opinion and assumption.
  3. Thrifty
    Thrifty 3 August 2020 16: 41 New
    -9
    And what did the T14 get from the same T95, it is the project "Improvement 88", it is also the object 195? KaZs are different, the guns are different, the chassis is different, the dynamic protection is different. ... T95, "daddy" T14, is essentially a ready-made tank, with a minimum of problems, in contrast to the T14, which was built from scratch, which still cannot be cured of a bunch of misfortunes. .. There is such a rumor that the more advanced T95 did not go into production, because during the tests with obscene (fire) it could not be damaged even slightly by what is in service. Only a 185 mm caliber with a special warhead could "kill" this tank, and in the event of a loss of the tank, and the impossibility of evacuating it, not to use nuclear weapons against the tank. ..Therefore, the "son" T14 went into the series, with a less perfect, but also very effective protection system ..
    1. KCA
      KCA 3 August 2020 17: 58 New
      +4
      Can you tell me what kind of anti-tank gun in the USSR and Russia had a caliber of 185mm, and what special ammunition was used? A special ammunition is usually called a nuclear or thermonuclear charge, not a weak tank, if it can only be pierced with a tactical nuclear charge, if the 185mm OFS does not pierce the tank, then it will tear off all attachments and goslings from it, or even just turn it upside down
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 3 August 2020 18: 33 New
        0
        The KSA prototype did not go further than the calculations, just the calculations of its ammunition gave the result of the probability of guaranteed destruction of protection by tactical nuclear warheads of promising tanks, with enhanced armor of the new generation! Unlike the T95, its
        in the "hardware" did not. ..
        1. KCA
          KCA 3 August 2020 18: 53 New
          +4
          Calculations are confirmed by tests, never in the USSR there was an anti-tank gun 185mm, this fool would have weighed under 30 tons, guaranteed defeat by tactical thermonuclear weapons is not even funny, thermonuclear is not weak attempts of the 50s, in 152mm caliber, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are obtained at once
          1. Thrifty
            Thrifty 3 August 2020 19: 14 New
            -2
            KSA - Russia had a bunch of unrealized military projects, often things did not go beyond calculations and the theory of such weapons! The cannon was "calculated mathematically", but it was possible to justify the order and creation, especially for what purposes they were able to! Over time (possibly) information about such projects will emerge that we will open our mouths with amazement! Many of them were "shelved" precisely because they could not decide for whom this or that weapon was being created - the fleet does not need it, the ground forces, as well as aviation, are redundant. So there were theories, calculations, but without products in iron. ..
            1. KCA
              KCA 3 August 2020 19: 49 New
              +3
              I had to work in a military commissar, but for a very long time, and in development for civilian needs, so all the "mathematical" calculations are complete crap, not yet, at least, it’s not clear at all that it’s a plywood layout, you fools are building wind tunnels and models of ships are being driven in the pool? And I already wrote about the cannon, its mass would have been 30 tons, who needs it? How to tow this, how much time to deploy, what is the rate of fire? The projectile weighed over a hundred kilograms, five of us to load? 1-2 shots per minute, aha, but in the tank they are just waiting for the next shot
              1. Thrifty
                Thrifty 3 August 2020 20: 36 New
                -3
                KSA - I also worked for the defense industry at one time, albeit a civilian, but the closer to the 90s, the more there was a mess! The only constant control at all levels still took place. But, I've seen everything, up to the fact that people are out of place! Such "traffic jams" appeared from somewhere, sorry, they could only command with a clever look. So, the appearance of such "don’t know" was the beginning of the death of the Soviet military-industrial complex!
        2. Albert1988
          Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Thrifty
          The KSA prototype did not go further than the calculations, just the calculations of its ammunition gave the result of the probability of guaranteed destruction of protection by tactical nuclear warheads of promising tanks, with enhanced armor of the new generation! Unlike the T95, its

          Kaike fantasies!
          You wrote a little higher:
          Quote: Thrifty
          Only a caliber of 185 mm with a special warhead could "kill" this tank

          At the same time, it was not mentioned anywhere that it was "theoretically"! Moreover, 100 to the side of this car: they would have killed and not with such a terrible caliber ...
    2. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 44 New
      +3
      Quote: Thrifty
      T95, "papa" T14, essentially a ready-made tank, with a minimum of problems

      You are laughing so, yes! A minimum of problems? And it's okay that all the electronics there were already outdated by 2007, moreover, the communication channel between the turret instruments and the crew capsule was not properly implemented, as a result, the tank had a blind spot behind the turret, the gun had a maximum resource of 400 rounds. And this is not to mention the weak protection of the upper hemisphere and the exorbitant cost - one and a half times more than they are asking for the T-14 now ...
      Quote: Thrifty
      There is such a rumor that the more advanced T95 did not go into the series, because during the tests with grease (fire) it could not be damaged even slightly by what is in service.

      Well, and nonsense! During the shelling tests, two specially made prototypes were completely smashed into the trash. Such that the tank was not damaged in any way during the shelling - unscientific fantasy, fantasy about elves ...
      Quote: Thrifty
      from T14, cobbled together from scratch, which still cannot be cured from a heap of misfortunes. ..

      Dear, machines treat childhood illnesses after the start of mass production and mass operation, when most of these childhood illnesses come out! And they are testing the T-14 now for a completely different reason - in terms of complexity, this machine is comparable to an aircraft! But at the same time, it must also hold a blow, and all complex electronics must work with the reliability of a Kalash!
      Quote: Thrifty
      Only a 185 mm caliber with a special warhead could "kill" this tank, and in the event of a loss of the tank, and the impossibility of evacuating it, not to use nuclear weapons against the tank. ..

      Well, these are generally fairy tales of the level of grandmothers on the bench, forgive me ...
    3. Dzungar
      Dzungar 19 August 2020 14: 48 New
      0
      After reading this, uh, I don’t even know what to call it, it remains only to bring a very short video with the participation of one Baltic actor, where he says "fabulous ..........."
  4. Aag
    Aag 3 August 2020 18: 09 New
    +3
    Sorry, I repeat, because this can be attributed to almost any new weapon in the Russian Federation: In the USSR, information about the presence of this or that new model, type of weapon reached the public only after it was tested, put into service, produced in the required quantities , mastered by the troops.
    Now, it sounds like in a street juggling: “I’ll put my eyes on you!” Does not work on everyone, not always, and not for long! ...
  5. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 3 August 2020 18: 50 New
    +3
    A strange statement by the Author that both "Object 195" and "Object 640" were named the same ... "Black Eagle"! I had to read a lot about both "objects"! Omsk "Object 640" has always been called the "Black Eagle"! But "Object 195" was not named that! The name "Black Eagle" in relation to the "Object 195" was not found in the articles! I do not believe !
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 51 New
      +3
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      The author's clear statement that both "Object 195" and "Object 640" were named the same ... "Black Eagle"! I had to read a lot about both "objects"! Omsk "Object 640" has always been called the "Black Eagle"! But "Object 195" was not named that! The name "Black Eagle" in relation to the "Object 195" was not found in the articles! I do not believe !

      It's just that the author first wrote, then realized what he had written, but for some reason did not want to remove an outright error from the text, I had to "explain")))
      And the author for some reason mentions a certain fantastic tank "T-95 Black Eagle", which never existed in nature, there were object 195 and object 640 "Black Eagle" - two different machines)))
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 5 August 2020 08: 56 New
        +1
        By the way, in later articles "about the T-95" the expression "T-95 Black Eagle" was encountered. Moreover, without mentioning that there is "Object 640 Black Eagle"! I explain it simply ... someone from not very competent tovarische made a mistake and blurted out: "T-95 Black Eagle" ... it turned out according to the principle: "I heard a ringing, but does not know where he is ..."! And, perhaps, someone else repeated this "misunderstanding" after reading the "mistake" of the first tovarischa! This is what happened to the Author!
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 5 August 2020 13: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          By the way, in later articles "about the T-95" there was the expression "T-95 Black Eagle"

          Yes, you are right, these were the notions of very little informed citizens who simply combined two different cars into one)))
  6. Undecim
    Undecim 3 August 2020 19: 07 New
    +4
    And why the author did not remember about object 299 of the Special Design Bureau of Transport Engineering.
    1. nPuBaTuP
      nPuBaTuP 4 August 2020 01: 42 New
      +2
      Probably because this object remained on paper ... it was not embodied in iron ...
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 51 New
        0
        Quote: nPuBaTuP
        Probably because this object remained on paper ... it was not embodied in iron ...

        But it was precisely these developments that the Americans were inspired by, creating their own Abrams block-3.
  7. Lopatov
    Lopatov 3 August 2020 19: 52 New
    0
    Object 640

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this project was done for "store food". That is, for a replaceable module with a BC.
    And everything else was a very conservative modernization of the T-80.

    And where is "Armata" here?
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2020 22: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: Spade
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like this project was done for "store food". That is, for a replaceable module with a BC.
      And everything else was a very conservative modernization of the T-80.

      Rather, under the conveyor automatic loader in the aft niche of the tower, like the one on the Leclerc.
      Quote: Spade
      And where is "Armata" here?

      And just like that, braid) In an amicable way, the T-14 is just a repetition of object 195 on a modern element base with a "working" gun, and not a monster with a scanty resource ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 5 August 2020 07: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: Albert1988
        Rather, under the conveyor automatic loader in the aft niche of the tower, like the one on the Leclerc.

        Like the one on Msta-S
        But it doesn't matter.
        This module is replaceable:

        Someone at one time laid out a patent.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 5 August 2020 13: 04 New
          +2
          Quote: Spade
          Like the one on Msta-S

          Like, it was never developed.
          Quote: Spade
          This module is replaceable:

          First of all, it's a dummy! This tank is essentially a running model, its tower can be said to be a sham - there are dummies and there are no bells and whistles inside.
          The Omsk people then simply made a mock-up of a possible car and very much asked for money for its development, but preference was given to the Tagilians with their 195th, which was much closer to readiness.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 5 August 2020 14: 19 New
            0
            Quote: Albert1988
            Like, it was never developed.

            In what sense?
            Yes, and it works fine. And apparently he migrated to the "Coalition".

            Quote: Albert1988
            First of all, it's a dummy!

            This is understandable. But the idea was definitely sound.
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 5 August 2020 15: 48 New
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              In what sense?
              Yes, and it works fine. And apparently he migrated to the "Coalition".

              I mean a conveyor machine specially for a tank! And in the Coalition, there is not only a machine gun, as in the mesta, but also a modified one - charging is fully automated.
              Quote: Spade
              This is understandable. But the idea was definitely sound.

              Yes, it was a good idea, only, alas, the Omsk people were already in such a state then that they could not implement anything ...
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 5 August 2020 16: 25 New
                0
                Quote: Albert1988
                Yes, it was a good idea, only, alas, the Omsk people were already in such a state then that they could not implement anything ...

                It essentially solves the problem of a small ammo 152mm tank gun.
                And in theory it should be safer than the existing ones - it will fly away from the tank entirely when the first projectile detonates
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 5 August 2020 16: 35 New
                  +1
                  About 150 mm - this is a good question, though I never found the exact information - was it planned to install a larger caliber gun on the 640, or was it considered as an opportunity ...
                  Quote: Spade
                  will fly away from the tank entirely upon detonation of the first shell

                  How to say - during the detonation of land mines in the ammunition station, the turret of Abrashs tears no worse than that of our Teshekas (except that it flies not so far), and the aft niche, although it flies away, the crew still dies ...
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 5 August 2020 16: 38 New
                    0
                    Quote: Albert1988
                    and the aft niche, although it flies away, the crew still dies ...

                    Only the knockout panels should fly away there.
                    And with a "removable magazine" this module with the conveyor would fly away entirely. In theory.
                    1. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 5 August 2020 16: 41 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Spade
                      Only the knockout panels should fly away there.

                      Should, when propelling charges ignite in the casings, then a stream of poppy gases knocks out the panels .. But this is when there are BOPSs in which, by definition, there is nothing to explode, but when there are forty mines, and they also explode ... the entire aft niche, the door separating it from the fighting compartment, flies into this compartment itself, smearing the crew on the walls, and tears the turret itself off the shoulder strap ...
                      Quote: Spade
                      And with a "removable magazine" this module with the conveyor would fly away entirely. In theory.

                      This toee would have to be tested, which is called "in combat conditions."
  8. Split
    Split 3 August 2020 19: 55 New
    +2
    How much can you waste? lol No detailed information, the rest is from the evil one
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2020 23: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Split
      How much can you waste? No detailed information, the rest is from the evil one

      How! After all, if there is no information, then this is great! You can turn on many fantasies!
  9. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 4 August 2020 00: 20 New
    +4
    Uh ... The garbage is kind of confusing .. Not what I took, but what I did not take ..... Fu.
    The bottom line:
    1) Both old projects, promoted in the 90s, are different, but both are "Black Eagles". Probably so that the blacks like it. The PR ended and the circus left.
    2) armor capsule - from the Black Eagle "Object 195".
    3) the undercarriage is not from the Black Eagles. Span.
    4) weapons - "in principle, not different from the traditional". Span.
    5) armor protection. - own armor, dynamic, active. Ka and everywhere now. Span.
    6) Maybe something else, but unknown. Perhaps hopefully the best. Therefore, it will probably remain one of the most effective tanks for a possible long time. Span. or transcripts But they won't tell us.

    It has not yet been adopted by the troops, the 3rd-4th generation is already attending parades, and still remains "one of the most effective tanks in the world."
    One of???
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 August 2020 23: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: Alex2000
      1) Both old projects, promoted in the 90s, are different, but both are "Black Eagles". Probably so that the blacks like it. The PR ended and the circus left.

      Firstly, only object 640 was called "black eagle", object 195 was never called that.
      Secondly, only Object 640 was promoted and only within Russia, and that was very short-lived, because Omsk wanted money for the normal development of this machine, and not just for a running model. Object 195 remained terra incognita for many years, until it was closed in 2007 and more or less information about it went, before that there were only rumors and speculation and its ways with object 640.
      Quote: Alex2000
      armor protection. - own armor, dynamic, active. Ka and everywhere now. Span.

      The most important point that everyone forgets is that the KAZ on the T-14 is an indispensable element closely integrated into the design of the machine, and not an optional hanging gadget.
      Quote: Alex2000
      The troops have not yet been adopted, the 3rd-4th generation is already attending parades,

      These parades were given to you! Tank on parade - 5 days, the remaining 360 - at the test site for tests and improvements ...
      But in the main, everything is correct - there is only one reliable information about the car - how it looks, that's all, everyone who is not too lazy has already cut down the model))) I already have three pieces on my shelf - from a Russian company and two Chinese ones)
      1. Aleks2000
        Aleks2000 5 August 2020 00: 20 New
        0
        "I have as many as three pieces on my shelf - from a Russian company and two Chinese ones)"
        is a plus.
        The rest, IMHO, is not that.

        "black eagle" - according to the article, both were called. Is the author lying?

        PR - both.
        One thanks to the cannon. Another, clearly flashed from the "breakthroughs" in the shape of the tower.

        KAZ. Integrated. And cho not to integrate, since the tower is small? it is both + and -.
        In fact, Active is worth a lot.

        The parade is not the point. The bottom line is that the 3rd generation drives. But not in the army. (Like many other things. "Terminators", for example, are also 3e)
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 5 August 2020 13: 02 New
          +2
          Quote: Alex2000
          The rest, IMHO, is not that.

          And the "rest", if possible more specifically - what is this?
          Quote: Alex2000
          PR - both.
          One thanks to the cannon. Another, clearly flashed from the "breakthroughs" in the shape of the tower.

          This "PR" went only not from the MO, but from all kinds of "GurKhans" in zhezhezhshechki, and then, somewhere between 2007 and 2011, when it became clear. that all the old developments were closed in favor of the new ones and there was more information about them ... Before that, there were crumbs of information.
          Quote: Alex2000
          "black eagle" - according to the article, both were called. Is the author lying?

          Of course, he’s lying, or he’s wrong - 195 was never called that. Only those who ignorantly confused the two projects invented a mythical new tank "T-95 Black Eagle".
          Quote: Alex2000
          KAZ. Integrated. And cho not to integrate, since the tower is small? it is both + and -.
          In fact, Active is worth a lot.

          KAZ is now not so "a lot" where, this time, you can count on the fingers, and secondly - here KAZ is an integral part of protection, and on the rest it is just a gadget, maybe, maybe not.
          Quote: Alex2000
          The parade is not the point. The bottom line is that the 3rd generation drives. But not in the army. (Like many other things. "Terminators", for example, are also 3e)

          So so so! Don't confuse the "terminators", who really already have a second option (not a third!), And they, by the way, are already being supplied to the troops! (After Syria, it came to our minds that the "thermos" would still be useful in the troops). And secondly, where did you get the idea that a kind of "third generation" armature is being shown at the parade now? Why not 5th - 6th? Are there any additional work on Ashina? It is being carried out, the car is very complicated, but it should be as reliable as a Kalash, so testing it for a long time ...

          The problem is that it was shown too early - the year in 2021-2022 should have only been shown)
          Back in 2015, when the parade had not passed yet, at this forum an employee of Uraltransmash said that before 2025, an armature in a large series should not be expected ...
          1. Aleks2000
            Aleks2000 5 August 2020 21: 23 New
            -1
            What to ask is, everything is described above ...
            by terminators - so right in the name. Terminator 1,2,3.
            3rd, yes, there is already in the troops, in small batches, VO again - then nat, then not nat ...

            And Armata ... Maybe 6e. But in parades - there are 3 noticeably different looks, they were also dismantled at VO several times ...
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 5 August 2020 22: 14 New
              +1
              Quote: Alex2000
              by terminators - so right in the name. Terminator 1,2,3.

              Poravochka - "terminator-3" - this is some hypothetical BMPT, created on the armata platform, has never been demonstrated, there are doubts that in general the idea went further.
              Quote: Alex2000
              And Armata ... Maybe 6e. But in parades - there are 3 noticeably different looks, they were also dismantled at VO several times ...

              These differences are not essential - the shape of that hatch, or that nut. But it is not surprising - the car is being improved as it is tested, jambs are being corrected, something is being improved already at this stage. I would be worried if during all this time there were no significant changes! Then yes - it would be worth worrying ...
              1. Aleks2000
                Aleks2000 6 August 2020 00: 12 New
                0
                1) Neither. Although not special, I read it right in the article today: terminator-3 began to be supplied to the army ...
                Cho, are they lying?

                2) A little, a lot, but the third is the third ... what is the question then?

                the original comment was that it was empty text and not relevant. And you immediately confirmed partially.

                and all sorts of little things are already details
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 6 August 2020 00: 44 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex2000
                  Neither. Although not special, I read it right in the article today: terminator-3 began to be supplied to the army ...
                  Cho, are they lying?

                  And can you find out where you read it? To lie - they do not lie, but they can be mistaken with the car number))) We do not have so many modifications of the terminator in principle)
                  Quote: Alex2000
                  A little, a lot, but it is 3e ... but what is the question then?

                  The fact that it surprised you that the parade cars receive changes, but do not go to the troops))) so it's normal - let everything be filed properly before deliveries.
                  Quote: Alex2000
                  the initial comment was that it was empty text and not relevant.

                  And more with errors!
                  1. Aleks2000
                    Aleks2000 6 August 2020 21: 22 New
                    0
                    1) Yes, type in the search. Why should I search again?
                    2) No. All sorts of surprise - only yours. Do not attribute someone else's.
                    3) all the more
  10. Pavel57
    Pavel57 7 August 2020 20: 50 New
    0
    Confusing article
    1. Dzungar
      Dzungar 16 August 2020 14: 30 New
      0
      the author of the article apparently came here from Yandex Zen. It is customary there to rivet all sorts of garbage without thinking too much about its meaning ...
  11. Dzungar
    Dzungar 16 August 2020 14: 29 New
    0
    at the T-95 "Black Eagle" tank being developed in Nizhny Tagil. In particular, the armored capsule for the crew, isolated from the rest of the vehicle, and the automated fighting compartment are taken from the Object 195. Omsk "Object 640", incidentally also called "Black Eagle",
    when did you manage to call object 195 the Black Eagle ..... ??? And for what..?