Military Review

And if not for Karabakh: on the borders between the republics of Transcaucasia

100

Who laid these borders between the republics of the Caucasus



The current aggravation of the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan is due not only and not so much to the factor of Nagorno-Karabakh. After the world and civil wars and revolutions, after Russia itself and its Transcaucasian neighbors were balancing on the brink of disintegration or transition to a semi-colonial state, the centuries-old interethnic and inter-confessional strife between Armenians and Azerbaijanis did not go anywhere.

It was harshly, although not always successful, suppressed by Persia, the Russian and Ottoman empires. But this discord gave a minimum of chances for the settlement of the mutual borders of the two newly formed mono-national republics: Armenian and Azerbaijan. At first they were part of the Transcaucasian Federation - not a very successful local analogue of the RSFSR, but they became full-fledged allies within the USSR. Then they got their very intricate boundaries.

It is significant that long before the well-known conflict that grew into a full-scale war, these borders did not suit both sides. And they did not suit initially. It just seemed that the Armenian-Azerbaijani borders at the turn of the 20s and 30s were finally and irrevocably established.

The republican authorities from Baku and Yerevan periodically demanded to change the corresponding decisions of the Soviet All-Russian Central Executive Committee in their favor, but for a long time in vain. However, in the end, the leadership of the Azerbaijan SSR, incomparably more influential in Moscow than the Armenian competitors, achieved the demarcation of mutual borders. And in its course, Baku has achieved a lot.

What did Baku seek and achieve?


First, the fact that the territory of Azerbaijan in several places was deeply wedged into the territory of Armenia. At the same time, the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, included in the Azerbaijan SSR, where the Armenian population always predominated, was demonstratively separated from Armenia by the "Lachin corridor" 15-40 km wide. This very corridor was occupied by the Armenian troops in the early 90s.

And if not for Karabakh: on the borders between the republics of Transcaucasia

Secondly, it was near the Armenian-Azerbaijani border in Armenia that three regions - exclaves belonging to Azerbaijan - were created. Moreover, one of these regions is located only 30 km from Yerevan, that is, between the Nakhichevan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic of Azerbaijan and the capital of Armenia. And this ASSR was also created within the Armenian SSR, therefore the Nakhichevan region of Azerbaijan is actually the largest exclave inside Armenia.

Armenia, on the other hand, bargained for itself only one such exclave - Artsvashen (Azerbaijani Bashkend) near the border of Azerbaijan with Armenia. It is also characteristic that this Armenian exclave and two of the three Azerbaijani exclaves are located in the adjacent north-western region of Azerbaijan (Artsvashen) and the north-eastern region of Armenia.


Naturally, such "bizarre" mutual borders and belonging of those exclaves were often disputed by Armenians and Azerbaijanis during the Soviet period. First of all, Baku and Yerevan proposed to "align" the borders in such a way that those national exclaves would become part of the territories of Azerbaijan and Armenia, respectively.

Moreover, in Armenia, they periodically claimed a large part of the neighboring Touz region of Azerbaijan (more precisely, for its connection with the Artsvashen exclave), where a military conflict has now unfolded, as well as the northern region of the Nakhichevan ASSR (Norashen region) in order to "move" the border with Azerbaijan from Of Yerevan.

Azerbaijan adequately "responded" with claims to the entire eastern shore of the Armenian Lake Sevan. And even to the southern Armenian region - Meghri-Kafan region, which is located between the Nakhichevan ASSR of Azerbaijan and the rest of the territory of the Azerbaijan SSR. In this case, the entire Soviet-Iranian border in Transcaucasia would be on the territory of Azerbaijan.

And the Kremlin was in no hurry


Moscow, for obvious reasons, did not dare to change these boundaries. But the old disputes escalated sharply after 1991, and by the mid-90s the aforementioned exclaves were abolished by Armenia and Azerbaijan. So, such a long military-political conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan is caused not only by Nagorno-Karabakh.

As for the Azeri affiliation of the Nakhichevan region, one cannot but recall the Treaty of Kars, signed on October 13, 1921 by the Armenian, Azerbaijan, Georgian SSR and the RSFSR with Turkey. It is valid indefinitely and provides in Article 5 that:

"The Turkish government and the Soviet governments of Azerbaijan and Armenia agree that the Nakhichevan region, within the boundaries specified in Appendix 3 of this agreement, forms an autonomous territory under the auspices of Azerbaijan." As you know, this decision was an integral, if not the most important part of the then Soviet policy of concessions towards Kemalist Turkey. The authorities of which initially supported the territorial appetites for Armenia on the part of even Soviet Azerbaijan. "

Meanwhile, at the turn of the 40s and 50s of the last century, through the efforts of the then head of Azerbaijan M.D.Bagirov (see. I was once given a Russian name here.) in the republic, an extensive network of pan-Turkist agents was destroyed. But soon after the execution of Bagirov (1956), personally initiated by N.S. Khrushchev, almost all the "victims", the surviving Pan-Turkists, were rehabilitated and began to receive positions in the middle and top echelons of the leadership of Azerbaijan.

There is nothing surprising in the fact that Ankara's position with Azerbaijan's direct support remains to this day. As noted by the authors of the French "Figaro" on July 17 this year,

“Turkey has always taken a hostile position towards Armenia and maintained close ties with Azerbaijan, which shares the same linguistic roots and religion with it.
Be that as it may, Ankara has, first of all, its own territorial claims, not only in the Transcaucasus, which go back to Ottoman times, but today are kindled by President Erdogan. The current battles refer to the context of increasing aggressiveness in Turkey and, in particular, Erdogan, who wants to return to the imperial past. "

At the same time, "Azerbaijan's defense spending exceeds the total budget of Armenia." As for the border disputes between Yerevan and Baku, “these conflicts were frozen for 80 years under Soviet rule, but nothing was settled.

Judging by Turkey's unequivocal support for Azerbaijan and in the current Touz conflict, it is reasonable to assume that, taking into account Figaro's sober assessments, Ankara will provide Baku with at least political support if this conflict continues.
Author:
Photos used:
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  1. Avior
    Avior 5 August 2020 18: 21 New
    +4
    A good start, but then you get the impression of being cumbersome - just read it - the article is over
    In general, the problem is very complex, and in the current situation it is difficult to expect compromise solutions.
    There is a formal solution, however, when the agreement on the formation of the CIS was signed, the Soviet borders of the republics for 5 were recognized in Article 1991, at the time of the collapse of the Union.
    Only now, formally, Karabakh is a part of Azerbaijan as it was and remained.
    I wonder what the parties have proposed to solve the problem?
    1. dSK
      dSK 5 August 2020 19: 36 New
      0
      The largest US embassy in Yerevan (2000 diplomas) will not allow peace to be established in the region.
      In reality, about 2 million people now live in Armenia.
      According to Armenian media, there are 2000 American diplomats in the country. According to other sources, 2500 diplomats, one for every 1200 citizens of the host country. One of the corps is dedicated to the marines. When the embassy opened, there were only six of them. However, according to Armenian media reports, by 2013 their number was increased to 800. As one of the Armenian journalists wrote at the time, "a full-fledged US military base has appeared in the center of Yerevan."

      The current NATO strategy is not aimed at admitting new NATO members. This annoys Russia and not only. It is enough to create your own base and bring a new country under control. Georgia, Ukraine, Armenia. Next in turn is Azeibarjjan, where NATO is "creeping" through Turkey.
      The more military conflicts farther from the States, the greater the demand for the dollar. You can print it without restrictions.
      1. dSK
        dSK 5 August 2020 19: 51 New
        +5
        If it is true that Lukashenka has approved the US Embassy without limiting the number of "diplomats" (Pompeo left him not empty-handed recently), then soon the largest US embassy will appear in Minsk. Belarus is "Russia's last real ally," as Lukashenka himself said.
      2. Avior
        Avior 5 August 2020 20: 41 New
        +5
        Well, in Armenia there is just a large Russian military base - several thousand people, aviation. And about 800 American Marines, as I understand it, someone's is a very strong exaggeration.
        But in general, I would just like to understand, in principle, how do the parties see the solution to the problem? It is clear that they diverge.
        1. dSK
          dSK 5 August 2020 21: 35 New
          +3
          Sargsyan, the "hero of Karabakh" was almost imprisoned and the country is ruled by "pro-NATO" Pashinyan. And what can you expect from him?
          1. dSK
            dSK 5 August 2020 21: 41 New
            0
            The Armenians say that a number of local NGOs are helping them to expand the American spy network in the republic. The total number of these "non-governmental organizations" in the small republic is off scale: according to the data of the national statistical service of Armenia, there are more than two hundred of them. The US annually allocates up to $ 250 million for their activities. The work of Armenian NGOs is coordinated by the American Embassy and by such structures as USAID, NED, Soros Foundation. In addition, radio intelligence is being conducted from the new embassy complex in Yerevan, aimed at bordering and neighboring states - Turkey, Iran, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Russia, etc.
            Here is what one expert writes about the new American Embassy in Armenia: "In fact, the United States in Armenia does not have an embassy in its classical definition, but an intelligence center, a complex of specific objects. From them the collection, processing and transmission of intelligence and other information of interest to the Americans are conducted on a grand scale. There are no special secrets for the United States in Armenia, which means that their intelligence center under diplomatic cover is "imprisoned" for the entire region.
            In such a situation, should one be surprised at the outbreak of the "Velvet Revolution" in Armenia that took place in the spring of 2018?

            1. Seminol
              Seminol 5 August 2020 22: 19 New
              -3
              Bullshit
            2. Pravodel
              Pravodel 6 August 2020 08: 17 New
              +4
              Exactly
              In such a situation, should one be surprised at the outbreak of the "Velvet Revolution" in Armenia that took place in the spring of 2018?

              Whether there will be more .... The Anglo-Saxons are perfectly able to kindle conflicts and play off peoples. They have it - in the blood and in the blood of the peoples whom they played off and which they ruled and governed.
            3. the finish
              the finish 6 August 2020 09: 37 New
              +2
              And what prevents all these devices from being installed openly in Georgia, and not secretly in Armenia?
          2. silberwolf88
            silberwolf88 6 August 2020 20: 23 New
            -1
            Maidan Pashinin is closer, of course, to amers ... and this promises big problems ... and it is time to withdraw our military from there ... the ally from Armenia is very controversial and the problems simply go off scale ... and it is time to stop giving citizenship to the inhabitants of these republics until the conflict is resolved ... because both of them will rush to us ... well, why don't they fall for us ...
            1. max702
              max702 8 August 2020 09: 32 New
              -2
              Quote: silberwolf88
              Maidan Pashinin is closer, of course, to amers ... and this promises big problems ... and it is time to withdraw our military from there ... the ally from Armenia is very controversial and the problems simply go off scale ... and it is time to stop giving citizenship to the inhabitants of these republics until the conflict is resolved ... because both of them will rush to us ... well, why don't they fall for us ...

              I fully support you .. Armenia is not an ally for us, but a parasite who not only raises Russia for money, but also demands blood from our soldiers .. In my mind, Armenia is the main reason for all pores with Azerbaijan .. let's honestly why do we need Armenia and the Armenians? Why do we need all this? This nation does not bring any real benefits for us, only troubles .. In Russia, the Armenians do nothing useful, the whole business is trading, the tourism sector in the south, and the repair of road construction years has improved dramatically), plus crime .. In the mind to send everything home to sunny Armenia, and thank God, the cars with the Armenians began to shake the numbers concretely, otherwise there was just lawlessness on their part .. Everyone home, the base should be taken out of any military component for us there is no .. There will be a second Georgia, nothing terrible will survive, you look and it will be better ..
          3. Chest
            Chest 11 August 2020 22: 30 New
            0
            To deprive Armenians of earnings in Russia with the condition to demolish all pro-Western ones - the issue will be resolved tomorrow. Only hard to deprive.
    2. Seminol
      Seminol 5 August 2020 21: 46 New
      -2
      Karabakh is not formally and cannot be a part of Azerbaijan mainly for the following reasons:

      1. Azerbaijan proclaimed itself the heiress of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic of 1918, which had never been de jure a part of either Karabakh or Nakhijevan. These territories were recognized as controversial by the League of the Nation - the Forerunner of the UN.

      2. Karabakh proclaimed its independence within the framework of the USSR law of 03.04.1990 No. 1409-I before the collapse of the Soviet Union. That is, at the time of the proclamation of independence, this law was still effective.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Nikanet
        Nikanet 6 August 2020 11: 32 New
        +1
        Don't tell fairy tales here wink
        1. Seminol
          Seminol 6 August 2020 18: 22 New
          -3
          I'm talking about Ivan and you are talking about a fool.
      3. Andrey Novoseltsev
        Andrey Novoseltsev Yesterday, 09: 20 New
        0
        Ты полностью прав .Пусть не забывают что означает автономная область или республика .Нахичеванская автономная Республика создавалось хоть и беззаконно с попранием всех международных прав так как оба государства что РСФСР и Турция которые не были признаны мировым сообществом решали судьбу территорий третей станы признанной Лигой Наций .Великое преступление до сих пор не смытое
    3. Vsepomni
      Vsepomni 6 August 2020 11: 47 New
      +1
      Sargsyan has already agreed to return to Azerbaijan 5 of the 7 occupied regions around Karabakh in exchange for a peace treaty. Pashinyan came or brought in, who abandoned this plan. And the conflict was frozen. Moreover, Pashinyan danced on the 20th anniversary of the so-called independence of Karabakh in our city of Shusha. Until Pashik comes to his senses, it will continue forever.
  2. Rostislav
    Rostislav 5 August 2020 18: 22 New
    +5
    it is reasonable to assume that ... if this conflict continues, Ankara will provide Baku with at least political support.

    It's on the surface.
    And so the article is informative, short and ob'yano.
  3. Livonetc
    Livonetc 5 August 2020 18: 30 New
    +2
    Serious aspect.
    [quote] [At the same time, "Azerbaijan's defense spending exceeds the total budget of Armenia." / quote]
  4. Poetry
    Poetry 5 August 2020 18: 37 New
    +3
    Such knots were tied that would be very difficult to untie. Only with meat.
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 5 August 2020 21: 27 New
      +8
      Quote: Poetiszaugla
      Such knots were tied that would be very difficult to untie. Only with meat.

      And if you listen to both, then Azerbaijanis, as well as Armenians are amazingly kind, sincere, enterprising, sympathetic and cheerful ... people what
      1. Poetry
        Poetry 5 August 2020 22: 25 New
        +1
        I agree. But everyone proves their truth with foaming at the mouth. And here she is sitting at the same table and even helping each other.
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 10 August 2020 13: 07 New
          0
          And what is the Ukrainian with the Russian not the same?
      2. certero
        certero 6 August 2020 00: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: Terenin
        Azerbaijanis, as Armenians are amazingly kind, sincere, enterprising, sympathetic and cheerful ... people

        Most of the Armenians and Azerbaijanis are just like that. In my army, there were three Azerbaijanis and three Armenians in clothes. No conflicts
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 6 August 2020 08: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: certero
          Most of the Armenians and Azerbaijanis are just like that. In my army, there were three Azerbaijanis and three Armenians in clothes. No conflicts

          1985, construction battalion, fought in blood
        2. silberwolf88
          silberwolf88 6 August 2020 20: 28 New
          +2
          most of them are scum ... which was confirmed by the pogroms of the 90s ... and in relation to the Russians too ...
          1. Farid Alekperov
            Farid Alekperov 7 August 2020 15: 56 New
            -6
            Russians were not smashed, this is it. (And it is not necessary to bring the fascist garbage from the white book of memory) Spitting towards the military after the introduction of troops is a normal reaction.
            1. silberwolf88
              silberwolf88 7 August 2020 17: 11 New
              +4
              if the balabol hadn't taken me out of Baku by helicopter ... if the helicopter hadn't received several hits from small arms ... well, I probably would have kept silent ... but as a participant I advise you to shut up ... just shut up and not try to whitewash here the crimes that were ... I haven't read the white book ...
              for information ... a colleague with his family flew out 4 hours later ... the bullet passed along the tangent to the skull ... a brain injury ... and the boy (and now he is an adult) is a helpless invalid with regular headaches and memory lapses .. ...
              1. Nikanet
                Nikanet 7 August 2020 23: 43 New
                -3
                You're lying and not blushing! wink
                1. silberwolf88
                  silberwolf88 8 August 2020 01: 56 New
                  +2
                  I suggest you shut up ...
                  1. Nikanet
                    Nikanet 10 August 2020 15: 40 New
                    +2
                    At home, voice your proposals wink
              2. Makarov1951
                Makarov1951 8 August 2020 15: 57 New
                0
                Therefore, clarify that there were pogroms in Baku against the Russians, otherwise you generalize
                1. Farid Alekperov
                  Farid Alekperov 8 August 2020 16: 20 New
                  -3
                  there was not a single recorded case of pogroms against Russians in Baku. No one!
                  1. Nikanet
                    Nikanet 10 August 2020 15: 41 New
                    0
                    Yes, they just blurt out something.
              3. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
              4. The comment was deleted.
    2. Aag
      Aag 6 August 2020 07: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: Poetiszaugla
      Such knots were tied that would be very difficult to untie. Only with meat.

      Is it really again in our century? ((...
      1. Poetry
        Poetry 6 August 2020 08: 01 New
        +1
        I would not want to. We got such a time. Interesting.
  5. Ramiz Babayev
    Ramiz Babayev 5 August 2020 18: 54 New
    +7
    The article is absolutely biased. Azerbaijan has never been a mono-ethnic republic, unlike Armenia. It would be nice for the authors to look at the royal maps of the Transcaucasian region and look at the names of settlements. Then it would be clear to them who and where lived
    1. Ilshat
      Ilshat 5 August 2020 19: 00 New
      +4
      By the way, yes...
      Once I read the memoirs of a designer of electrical machines, purely Soviet, almost from a citizen ...
      He wrote there so vaguely why he had to leave Armenia, he was building a hydroelectric power station there (or a thermal power plant, I don't remember), such as the situation was such that I had to look for a new position, etc.
      Armenians do not like strangers.
      1. Aag
        Aag 6 August 2020 08: 29 New
        +2
        ... "Armenians don't like strangers." ..
        But, no matter how you look, the asphalt is being laid, the roads are being built by the Armenians ... Azerbaijanis are usually in the markets ...
        If anything, Western Siberia, and further east ...
        1. Ilshat
          Ilshat 6 August 2020 08: 32 New
          0
          Salamchiki, fellow countryman!
          If anything, I worked in the field for many years ...
          The head of the detachment, at the penultimate job - Azerbaijani
          And I know a whole bunch of Azerbaijani masters, operators!
          But I have never seen one, not a single Armenian in the field.
          Unlike markets.
          1. Aag
            Aag 6 August 2020 08: 56 New
            +2
            Even here misunderstandings arise!
            "Trud" LLC, "Dorstroy", the Baikal highway, the road to Kovykta, the subcontractors were Armenians. There were also Chinese, and even Chechens ... (5-8 years ago, it is true). Yesterday the road builders (Irkutsk) presented themselves as Armenians. ..Follow?
            In the markets, from friends, Azerbaijanis ... hi
            1. Ilshat
              Ilshat 6 August 2020 09: 09 New
              0
              Actually, I saw the Armenian builders, it's true for a long time, but it was ...
              It turns out I lied, I'm to blame ...
              The ABK was built.
              But in terms of technology, I don’t remember ...
        2. SASHA OLD
          SASHA OLD 6 August 2020 11: 15 New
          0
          In Surgut, our roads are made completely international
          1. Ilshat
            Ilshat 6 August 2020 12: 14 New
            -1
            Are there many Armenians in cattle, PRS, mining?
            1. SASHA OLD
              SASHA OLD 6 August 2020 13: 20 New
              0
              We have a lot of Tatars in UKRSiPNP (when I worked there), "Ukrainian-surname", but there are many different people, both Armenians and Azerbaijanis are different, I don't remember the obvious predominance of some nationality, although the topic of "family contracts" in " Surgutneftegaz "has not gone anywhere
              1. Ilshat
                Ilshat 6 August 2020 13: 27 New
                +2
                He worked at Bystrinka 2,3 workshop, Salk, Vache, Yaunlor (this is at Surgut, for those who do not know), etc. - I have not seen a single Armenian!
                But the Azerbaijanis ...
                They just filled up!
                Fewer than Tatars and Bashkirs, but many.
                1. SASHA OLD
                  SASHA OLD 7 August 2020 05: 02 New
                  -1
                  ABOUT! I have also been to the Solkinsky, Yaunlorsky and Bystrinsky fields, so yes, I agree in general, if there are Armenians, then they do not stand out. In recent years, many guys have come from Transnistria ...
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 5 August 2020 19: 05 New
    +2
    Interestingly, there were two Transcaucasian federations, ZDFR and ZSFSR. The first did not last long, about a month, and split into three states: the Georgian Democratic Republic, the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic and the Republic of Armenia. The borders between them were never defined, which led to territorial conflicts between the republics. The second, existed for about 14 years, until the adoption of the Constitution of the USSR in 1936, which stated that Azerbaijanis, Armenia and Georgia are independent union republics. The trouble of these Transcaucasian peoples, in my opinion, lies in the fact that each of the peoples consider themselves to be the titular nation. in Transcaucasia ... Armenians live in the memory of Great Armenia, when many lands of Transcaucasia, Georgia, Azerbaijan were part of it, Georgians in the memory of the reign of Queen Tamar, when a similar situation developed, and Azerbaijanis live the same ... Hence, they cannot get along. with a friend ... But in fact, the idea of ​​the Transcaucasian Federation is relevant at the present time, both politically and economically ...
  7. uranium
    uranium 5 August 2020 19: 18 New
    -5
    Well, it is clear that the resource is Armenian, therefore there can be no talk of objectivity.
  8. uranium
    uranium 5 August 2020 19: 26 New
    +3
    Map of military operations of 1899-1817 issued in Tiflis.
    This map was compiled by a Russian general and military cartographers in order to show the administrative and political situation in the regions that recently became part of the Russian Empire. The map shows Shirvan, Aderbeidzhan, Shusha or Karabakh Khanates, Erivan Khanates and other independent entities that became part of Russia. On the territory of today's Armenia - then the Erivan Khanate, Lake Gokcha, the Zangi River, Arpachay are indicated and there is not a single Armenian name.
    1. the finish
      the finish 6 August 2020 09: 50 New
      0
      And before that? Why do you appeal only in the 19th century and after the settling / breeding of the Seljuk Turks in Asia Minor? Did the Martians build the Echmiadzin Monastery in 301 and other structures too? Is all Turkish tourism built on the exploitation of Byzantine and other Christian monuments? Well, yes, if St. Sophia Cathedral is now a mosque, this does not mean that it was not built by Christians and was not a temple!
      1. Nikanet
        Nikanet 6 August 2020 11: 42 New
        -1
        And before that, there was the year 1827 and the resettlement of Armenians by Griboyedov to the Azerbaijani lands!
        1. Xenofont
          Xenofont 6 August 2020 12: 09 New
          +2
          By this time, Griboyedov was already in the grave, and Paskevich moved the Armenians and Greeks to Eastern Armenia in 28 AD. This name is used by contemporaries.
      2. uranium
        uranium 7 August 2020 12: 50 New
        -1
        Quote: finish
        And before that? Why do you appeal only in the 19th century and after the settling / breeding of the Seljuk Turks in Asia Minor? Did the Martians build the Echmiadzin Monastery in 301 and other structures too? Is all Turkish tourism built on the exploitation of Byzantine and other Christian monuments? Well, yes, if St. Sophia Cathedral is now a mosque, this does not mean that it was not built by Christians and was not a temple!

        No one denies that St. Sophia Cathedral was built during the Byzantine era. As for Echmedzin, it has nothing to do with hai (uch mu'azzin, uch muezzin three muezzins if translated into Russian) If you claim that the Turks penetrated the Caucasus only in the 19th century, then how do 30-40% of the Armenian language consist from Turkish words the same percentage from Persian. You can also appeal with earlier cards, but you can't prove it for a known reason.
        But I will post more ancient maps, maybe you will find Armenia there smile Hopefully adequate users will believe the facts and not the words of narrow-minded people.


        I can put up a map of the early 20th century where the territory of present-day Azerbaijan is clearly marked.
        1. the finish
          the finish 9 August 2020 11: 37 New
          -1
          Echmiadzin is the place of descent of the only begotten.
    2. ashot1973
      ashot1973 7 August 2020 22: 30 New
      -1
      ... what a funny forger you are laughing laughing
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRLsRlBThSw
      1. uranium
        uranium 8 August 2020 11: 08 New
        -1
        would you still make a report from the headquarters of Dashnakutsutun laughing
  9. Fon elia
    Fon elia 5 August 2020 22: 27 New
    -1
    In any case, you have to negotiate. Or third forces will do it. But history has shown that only in a single state can the Karabakh problem be solved. Neither Russia nor Turkey will allow to solve this problem in someone's favor.
    1. iouris
      iouris 5 August 2020 23: 20 New
      +1
      Turkey and Russia will not help here. The problem is dead end. It cannot be solved, i.e. it is possible, but it will be genocide.
  10. Operator
    Operator 6 August 2020 00: 32 New
    +3
    Azerbaijanis and residents of the Anatolian Peninsula are ethnically one and the same people (different from Armenians, Georgians, Chechens and Ingush, Abkhazians and Ossetians).

    The presence or absence of the Treaty of Kars cannot change this objective reality. Therefore, Armenia in such an environment can survive as a country only within Russia (no other state will help it). But the Armenians must make such a decision themselves.
  11. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 6 August 2020 02: 46 New
    -2
    Again this topic ...

    Let's do this - before writing theorems here, I advise our gentlemen neighbors to study the axioms.
    I will list.

    Axiom 1.
    There has never been such a nationality as Azerbaijanis, Azerbaijanis. There are Persian Turks, a Muslim people who profess Islam for the most part, and Islam of the Shiite persuasion.

    Axiom 2.
    There was not and there is no independent Azerbaijan, be it North, South, or, for example, West or East. There was and is Persia, now the Islamic Republic of Iran, in which the dynasties of the Persian Turks have ruled over the past several hundred years. The Persian Turks inhabited and still inhabit the entire northern part of Persia, Iran. All kinds of so-called khanates on the territory of the conquered by us, Russia, from Persia, its northern lands were only administrative entities within Persia. Khan is only a local feudal lord, in our opinion, a prince, but not a king, and a khanate is not a kingdom. The kingdom is Persia, and the king is the shah. And the Persian Turks were the shahs throughout the last history of Persia. Therefore, all the stories about some Azerbaijan are rather ridiculous, the Persian Turks ruled Persia and all of them, the Persian Turks, the khanates, including in the northern territory of Persia, which we now call the Transcaucasia, were administrative units of Persia and were ruled by the nobility from the Persian Turks.

    Axiom 3.
    There is an expression that allegedly emphasizes the closeness and commonality of Azerbaijan and Turkey: "One nation - two states!", Stupid and unpretentious dusting of the brain and such an expression has no basis. "One nation - two states" can only be said about the modern Azerbaijan Republic and ... Iran, i.e. Persia. Almost half of the population of modern Iran, i.e. Persia and the majority of the population of Azerbaijan are Persian Turks, they are one people. Persian Turks, who are usually called Azerbaijanis and Ottoman Turks, are TWO DIFFERENT Turkic peoples. Moreover, historically, they have practically never been allies, and constantly competed with each other, including more than once fought among themselves. The languages, customs, traditions and religion of the Persian and Ottoman Turks have HUGE differences between them

    Axiom 4.
    The borders of the Russian Empire and subsequently the borders of the USSR are those borders to which the national interests of Russia extend. The border between Azerbaijan and Iran, between Armenia and Iran and Turkey, being the DE JURE national borders of these dwarf states, DE FACTO is the border of Russia and Persia / Iran, Russia and Turkey. Only and only Russia is the guarantor of the existence of the supposedly independent Azerbaijan and Armenia, and is the only obstacle to the return by Persia / Iran of their territories.

    Axiom 5.
    Persia is one of the oldest states in the world that has experienced ups and downs; it existed long before the formation of most of the present European states, including ours, and if you dig even deeper, long before the Roman Empire.
    On the territory of Persia there was NEVER any Armenia, neither Great, nor Small, nor any other Rapik and Khachik invented at their leisure. From the moment the Turks came to this region, Persia throughout its last history was almost uninterruptedly ruled by the dynasties of the Persian Turks, we know them from the light hand of Joseph Vissarionovich as Azerbaijanis. Let me remind you once again that the Persian Turks (Azerbaijanis) and Ottoman Turks are competitors, not allies.
    The existence of the Azerbaijan Republic, once the territory of Persia, if not for Russia and its interests, is a complete ABSURD. "Azerbaijanis" are Persian Turks, who make up half of the population of Persia and who, and now, rule Persia - Iran. Let me remind you that the actual leader of Persia / Iran, Ayatollah Khamenei, is a Persian Turk - “Azerbaijani”.
    To speak frankly and without curtsey, we can play into the hands of the selfish interests of the local elites, who have become entrenched in power in the Republic of Azerbaijan, now we can speak of the Aliyev dynasty. This clan has a good feeding trough, and we do not have a headache in terms of returning the northern territories back to Persia / Iran and the reunification of the Persian Turks, again all sorts of curtsies and fables of local elites about the brotherhood of "Azerbaijanis" and Ottoman Turks are in our hands it dampens pro-Persian sentiments in the Azerbaijan Republic.

    Axiom 6.
    I will repeat myself on the territory of the most ancient state - Persia, there NEVER existed neither Great, nor Small, nor Lean Armenia, Armanum, etc. Persia, the oldest state, existed even before the exodus of the ancestors of the Armenians from the Balkans. The Armenians are a newcomer people in Persia, whose migration across the Middle East was the result of the disappearance of the short-lived Armenia (Armanum), a small state or atonomy in Asia Minor on the coast of the Euphrates.
    With the annexation of the lands of Persia, we had a problem - the lands inhabited by the Persian Turks were annexed, the very ones whose dynasty ruled in Persia ... In addition, the Persian Turks profess Shiite Islam, and almost all the main centers of Shiism are in Persia, plus Shiism itself it is a trend in Islam rich in experience of conspiracy and secret struggle.
    In such a situation, it was not necessary to rely on the population of the new territories, the Persian Turks - the Shiites. Therefore, in addition to the small number of Cossacks, Christians were also resettled to new lands, most of them Armenians responded. The Armenian Equal-to-the-Apostolic Church played a huge role in the resettlement of Armenians from Persia and Ottoman Turkey, for which she was granted the property of the Albanian Orthodox Church that existed in the northern lands of Persia. All those ancient churches that are known to us and presented by the Armenians as their own, this is our gift to them and nothing else but former Orthodox churches. In turn, the Armenians settled for the most part exactly where there were churches, and the Armenian Church, which began to inhabit them, was already represented.

    Axiom 7.
    The existence of the state of Armenia in the Transcaucasus is the same absurd as the existence of the Azerbaijan Republic. All these are nominal things that do not have any historical and objective meaning, with the exception of our politics and our interests. There will be no our interests, there will be no our interests in these territories, there will be neither Azerbaijan, nor Armenia, new-made dwarf states.

    Axiom 8.
    The war between Azerbaijan and Armenia is unprofitable for the current leadership of these states, remakes. And this war is akin to the war of five and ten ruble coins in our pocket. Until the moment of the annexation of these territories by us, all these are mostly northern territories of Persia inhabited by Persian Turks. It is possible to talk about some kind of borders within this territory only in the context of the once existing administrative division in Persia - the borders of the khanates of the Persian Turks. It is impossible to find or draw any borders between Azerbaijan and Armenia, these, I will note, two states, INNOVATORS, whose existence is impossible for objective reasons of ABSURD. It is impossible, since these states NEVER existed before, the borders designated under the USSR, this is just a convention and nothing more, Armenians are not an indigenous people, they are a people we resettled and nothing more, and Azerbaijanis are not a kind of nation, but only a part of Persian Turks, together with the territories within the Russian Empire, later in the USSR.
    Somewhere, on the territory and within the borders of present-day Armenia, the Armenians were able to completely get rid of the indigenous population, that is, to oust or expel the Persian Turks. BUT Persia / Iran, and now ruled by the Turks, has quite normal relations with the current new-build Armenia, while I would remind you for the most part of the territory of Armenia, and Azerbaijan is the ex-territory of Persia.
    Therefore, all this fuss between Azerbaijan and Armenia, all these pro-Turkish attempts by Baku, or the pro-Westernism of Yerevan have no objective basis under them and no solution other than two possible ones - either these territories become part of Russia again, or mostly return to Persia.

    Axiom 9.
    Any provocation of war is contrary to our interests and damages them. There is no need for us to take sides, that these states, that the territorial conflict between them is a misunderstanding. It's like a war between two districts of our Moscow region.
    1. Aag
      Aag 6 August 2020 08: 04 New
      -3
      Tough ... But, in fact, basically true ... I'm afraid that most of the residents of both Armenia and Azerbaijan will disagree with you. And third-party interests ...
    2. Nikanet
      Nikanet 6 August 2020 11: 45 New
      +1
      Hard case)) My condolences.
    3. senex
      senex 6 August 2020 13: 33 New
      -1
      In fact, you can agree. 1. not Persian Turks, but in general the Turkmens or Iranian Turks. Persian Turks are like Russian Tatars, Chechens ... but in fact, you can write, Russian - Tatars. Chechens - who live in the state of Russia.
      2. Do you propose to abolish these states and a part of Russia?
      ?.
    4. Vsepomni
      Vsepomni 6 August 2020 13: 58 New
      +2
      In principle, everything is correct. But there are several buts. I would like to note that the khanates on the territory of Azerbaijan were independent for quite a long time, about 100 years. Although it would be normal to create a large Azerbaijan. Stalin wanted to do it in the 40-50s. Many of our specialists and military personnel were in Iranian Azerbaijan. But then Churchill "persuaded" Stalin to give up this venture.
    5. Makarov1951
      Makarov1951 8 August 2020 16: 07 New
      0
      What are you smoking?)) That is, cuneiform engraved on stones, confirmation on ancient maps of the mention of Armenians by many great historians is not a fact, but some kind of Internet troll is a fact)) stop using prohibited substances and do not mislead the donkey will only believe this. Serious people will laugh at you.
      1. Nikanet
        Nikanet 10 August 2020 15: 54 New
        -2
        Cuneiform engraved on stones? laughing Yes, they will knock out such thousands.
        Soon Moscow will become Armenian too, don't you believe it? You know better laughing
        https://dommoskvy.am/news/21.03.2020_armyanskie-hachkari-moskvi/
  12. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 6 August 2020 17: 20 New
    -2
    Quote: senex
    In fact, you can agree. 1. not Persian Turks, but in general the Turkmens or Iranian Turks. Persian Turks are like Russian Tatars, Chechens ... but in fact, you can write, Russian - Tatars. Chechens - who live in the state of Russia.
    2. Do you propose to abolish these states and a part of Russia?
    ?.
    He wrote about Persian Turks, not Turks. They also have several self-names, but there has never been one like "Azerbaijanis". Ask any representative of our indigenous North Caucasian peoples, and the same Chechens, Avars, Lezgins, etc., have bordered the Persian Turks for more than one century the name of the nation of neighbors and you will be surprised - everyone will call one name, compare with the name of one of the Persian dynasties and you will surprised. And this is not Azerbaijanis, Aderbeydzhans and the like nonsense. In the Arabic alphabet, there is a letter that reads "Z" with a dot, without a dot "D", hence all these Azerbaijanis and Azerbaijan people. Azerbaijan is the name of a territory, such as the Volga region, the Carpathian region, etc. There was never such a state, because there was simply no point in its existence while the Turkish dynasties ruled Persia.

    Like the Ottoman Turks, the Persian Turks did not even call themselves Turks, but simply - a Muslim. By the way, there is one thing in common between these two peoples, this is that the Ottoman Turks, creating the Ottoman Empire, had the state language Arabic, many Ottomans, the Turks by origin often did not speak Turkish at all, or their vocabulary was a couple of hundred words, and in turn Persian Turks seized Persia and came to power, not wanting to lose the influence that Persia had, retained the Persian language (Farsi) as the state language of the empire, Turkish was spoken only at court and many Turks in Persia / Iran, plus common people, over time the Turkish elite , that is, to know, in general, it completely switched to Farsi, and many of the leadership of modern Iran, being Turks by origin, now speak little Turkish, more speaking Farsi.
    All the famous literary works of the Persian Turks, all the poets of which they are proud not in Turkish, are written ... in Farsi. Everything that, for example, in modern Azerbaijan is presented as Azerbaijani poetry, monuments of the Azerbaijani language, in fact, a translation from Farsi by poets of Turkish origin and have never been written in Turkish.
    By the way, it is also characteristic that when Azerbaijan became a part of our Empire, their elite quickly switched to Russian and many hardly speak Turkish to this day. Suffice it to say that the Prime Minister and the Chief of the General Staff simply cannot speak Turkish, that is, Azerbaijani.

    I am not proposing anything, I just show on my fingers that these states are ABSURD, like the war between them. Turks and Armenians now live in Persia / Iran, which, again, is ruled by the Turks and ... do not fight. Turks and Armenians lived in our empire and did not fight as residents of the same country. Turks and Armenians now live with us, and again do not fight. Moreover, in all cases, the Turks are the indigenous population, even in our modern borders (Derbent), and the Armenians in all cases are newcomers, resettled either by us or by other empires. That is, there are no objective reasons for the war between these peoples and internal reasons, except for those invented by Rapik and Khachik, to the tune of Uncle John or Uncle Sam.
    1. the finish
      the finish 6 August 2020 19: 18 New
      0
      How do you explain the finding of thousand-year-old temples and other structures on the territory of modern Armenia with inscriptions on a stone in Armenian? Built long before resettlement (or rather, it will be repatriation) by the Russian Empire. Or are they all Albanian? Echmiadzin 301, Sanahin 934 and Haghpat 976 (UNESCO), ruins of Zvartnots 640, Tatev 895, Amberd fortress 1024, ruins of the cities of Dvin 335 and Ani 961. It turns out that at least the Persian or Turkish Turks are indigenous, and the Armenians are newcomers on the Albanian heritage (and the Albanians have always had the Armenian alphabet and language)? Yes, if you mean the times of the flies, Hurites, Luwians, Urarts in the 13th century BC, then they came and formed the Armenoid type. What about the Behistun inscription of Darius?
  13. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 6 August 2020 19: 09 New
    -2
    Quote: Nikanet
    Hard case)) My condolences.

    So I understand you are now going to tell us about the centuries-old history of the Azerbaijan state that NEVER EXISTED or Great Armenia? laughing
    There is no need to fence a shadow on the fence where everything is simple and clear as daylight.

    We were literally one step away from solving the so-called. The Karabakh conflict, with the solution of which many problems were solved. But the solution of this very Karabakh conflict left no lot and on the sidelines many external forces, this is the West, this is Turkey, the Ottoman Turks singing Persian about two states and one nation, this is Persia / Iran, by the way. The solution to the Karabakh conflict strengthened our position and relieved us of unnecessary headaches. But then the Armenians threw out the feint and a devil jumped out of the snuffbox, she is Saakashvili's western prostitute, sorry Pashinyan ...

    You need to understand the following things. We annexed these territories, we resettled Armenians there, but unfortunately we did not have and do not have an alternative to them, otherwise no one in a sober mind and in good memory would have done it. Now there is a state of the Persian Turks, loyal to us, but loyal to us, the state of Armenia, which we created, as loyal to us as we are the guarantor of its existence in general.

    Only thanks to us, the Azerbaijani prince, pay attention, being a descendant of the Turks who lived on the territory of modern Armenia, obediently and loyally, although puffing out his cheeks, but every time speaking from various tribunes, that Azerbaijan will not allow the creation of a SECOND Armenian state on its lands. That is, it recognizes Armenia and our decision, that's all, the Turks do not claim the return of these lands (the Iravan Khanate and something else there is remembered for them). Ok, it suits us, the Armenians should suit too, they acquired a statehood which they did not have most of their history, they found a state on the lands where we resettled them and took them under our patronage and protection. There are NO threats that tomorrow Azerbaijan will begin to encroach on Armenia demanding the return of their lands, and their princes emphasize this over and over again. Thus, with our help and under our protection, the Armenians solved the GREATEST task and found a state and a representative of the indigenous people on whose lands we created this state, refuses any claims.
    Let me note that in the same way the Azerbaijanis, with good luck, demarcated the border with us. And by the way, after we returned the Crimea, donated by the Ukrainians by Khrushchev, in Baku, even the most crazy radicals did not start a song about the return of Derbent to Azerbaijan, which was included in the RSFSR by Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.
    We put Aliyev and Sargsyan at the negotiating table, that's all, Azerbaijan does not make claims on the territory of Armenia, the Armenians are gradually withdrawing troops from the regions around Karabakh, they are left with a corridor for communication with him. But it is understandable to a fool that after this the Armenians in Karabakh cannot be kept even by force and they will all leave for Armenia, where the already catastrophic situation with the outflow of the population and the Armenians from Karabakh will obviously not interfere.
    Finita la comedy - in Transcaucasia, there remains Armenia, created by us, our main ally and support in the region, Azerbaijan owes us a solution to the conflict and also needs our patronage and protection from Persia, of which it is a part, and as you understand, no one just wants to leave with power, if we talk about the ruling clan, but the majority of the population clearly does not want to dance to the tune of the mullahs and ayatollahs. Well, with the resolution of the conflict, there is no reason to continue geopolitical love - carrots with Turkey, on which Azerbaijan is forced to rely because of Karabakh, in the issues of Persia, she is not his assistant here, only we can be protection. Plus Uncle John and Uncle Sam are left on the sidelines ...

    Do you think all this is necessary for Uncle John, Uncle Sam, Erdogash and Ayatollah from Tehran? ...

    And then the Armenian factor put a pig on us. Let me explain using the example of the Kurds, who are still rolling stones in the region and are sitting on many knees in a desire to find a state. The Kurds are working for us, then for the Israelis and Americans in an effort to implement the idea of ​​creating a Kurdistan. Yesterday, when Erdogash did not get off with tomatoes, the Kurds blew up a bus with pilots under the windows of the Turkish General Staff, shot down helicopters and got Igla MANPADS from nowhere, and today they are loyal vassals and in Syria are dancing to the tune of the Americans who were promised them either the state, or autonomy for lands of the Syrian Arab Republic (which, frankly, is unlikely). While the Kurds are rushing about with their idea, they, as we see, serve everyone as a gateway for dozens of special services and as conductors of the interests of many states.
    The same story is with the Armenians. While they were wandering around with the idea of ​​creating Armenia, they managed to serve many, reaching the Commonwealth. A special role, as in the case of the Ukrainians, for example, belongs to nationalists, who in modern history served Hitler and then the Americans. Well, the Natsiks of the Ukrainians in the choir with Soros' chicks have already shown themselves in all their glory, violating all the agreements by the guarantors and mediators in the negotiations on which we spoke, staging a massacre and sending another hundred to the forefathers on the Maidan, and now the Natsiks Armenians in the choir with the chicks all Soros was not long in coming. In the case of the latter, there is no need to go far for examples, they were used by the Americans in the struggle against the USSR, one of the manifestations of which was the creation of soil and incitement of interethnic conflicts in the USSR - the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict was one of the first and began to undermine internationalism in the USSR and undermine trust in power.
    And now, at the most opportune moment, "suddenly and by accident", like the devil from the snuff box Pashinyan, who made public all our plans and the agreements reached on the project for resolving the conflict, I note the agreements reached with our mediation between Aliyev and Sargsyan, and in the historical perspective Armenians, first of all, and not least of all in our interests in this in the region, AND THE MOST IMPORTANT LEFT WASN'T LEFT AND THE AMERICANS, AND THE EU, AND ... TURK (!!!). Plus, for dessert, the last bucha and provoking a conflict far from Karabakh, a specialist on the border between Armenia and Azerbaijan, in order to again compromise us as an ally before our own population.
    Therefore, you need to understand that there are not only "Soros cadres" here, but like the Ukrainians, there are also good old Nazis.
    The Armenians living with us, including those occupying not the smallest posts in various structures, and, accordingly, having access to information of a "delicate nature" under the stamp of secret, that is why they reacted so negatively to this Western confused. And this is precisely why this prostitute immediately tried to shut down both Sargsyan and Kocharyan. Let me remind you that the same Sargsyan once headed the special services of Armenia and cannot fail to know who and what is behind Pashinyan, and for what all this is being done and what awaits Armenia in the end. There are no fools - after Ukraine, no one will believe about the kind uncle Sam and Soros' uncle who bring peace and democracy, doing good out of pure and naive motives.

    Wangyu. If sound and sober forces do not come back to power in Armenia, the Armenians will follow the lead of the Soros chick Pashinyan and the good old bedding of the Natsiks, just as before the Georgians, like the Ukrainians before, will repeat the already beaten path and wander into the same swamp. And as I see it, they will not get off in this case with the loss of Karabakh, the destruction and flight of their troops from the regions around it, a scenario is very likely when the Azerbaijani prince will break through a corridor to Nakhichevan, cutting off Armenia from Iran ... and by the way, it is also unprofitable for us to there, on the northern border of Iran, there were western comrades who are not comrades to us at all. Moreover, the local prince will also quite reasonably make territorial claims to Armenia in general, accusing him of genocide and the expulsion of the Turkish population from it, which is also a FACT ...

    We will wait and see, but the FACT is that now Armenia is in a dangerous situation and we are late again, and we have the same situation as before in Ukraine and Georgia. It's a pity, but we are late again, but in this case, apparently we hoped too much for the prudence of the Armenians - we gave the Armenians something that no one gave them before, so if they continue to follow their devil and in the end step on the same rake as the Georgians and Ukrainians, it will be their choice and their mistake.
    1. Nikanet
      Nikanet 7 August 2020 10: 35 New
      -3
      Doubly my condolences! Well, what kind of "intelligence" you need to have to write this ?!
      1. ashot1973
        ashot1973 7 August 2020 22: 45 New
        -1
        he's a falsification specialist ...
        negative
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  15. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 6 August 2020 20: 20 New
    +1
    in national / territorial disputes, there is always a lack of political will and the scale of the personalities of the heads of state ... without this, everything is complicated, unpromising and fraught with conflicts with victims (including civilians) ... on the dispute between Azerbaijan and Armenia ... a possible compromise was would be a complete transfer of Karabakh to Armenia ... Naikhechivani to Azerbaijan with a guaranteed corridor within Azerbaijan ... not ideal, of course ... BUT quite a working compromise ...
  16. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 6 August 2020 22: 08 New
    -1
    Quote: silberwolf88
    in national / territorial disputes, there is always a lack of political will and the scale of the personalities of the heads of state ... without this, everything is complicated, unpromising and fraught with conflicts with victims (including civilians) ... on the dispute between Azerbaijan and Armenia ... a possible compromise was would be a complete transfer of Karabakh to Armenia ... Naikhechivani to Azerbaijan with a guaranteed corridor within Azerbaijan ... not ideal, of course ... BUT quite a working compromise ...
    laughing look at the map, where is Karabakh, where is Nakhichevan ...

    And the funniest thing is, look at this Karabakh, the "front line", etc. - this is the territory of one district in our region and not the largest.
  17. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 6 August 2020 22: 27 New
    -1
    Quote: Seminol
    For the most part, your pseudo-historical judgments have little to do with historical science. As I understand for you, there is only one ancient country that is Persia. Are you a chemist by profession? Turned almost the whole story from head to toe. Read better than Herodotus, to begin with, start with him.
    And what about Herodotus? Doesn't he write that the Armenians migrated from Europe to Asia?
    He considered the Armenians to be a small Thracian tribe who moved (or expelled) from Thrace.

    Doesn't he indicate the location of Armenia on the banks of the Euphrates and bordering on Cilicia? And the length of "Great Armenia" along the Euphrates is as much as 300 kopecks kilometers? And 15 fortified settlements, a la cities, and the rest are livestock breeders' camps? Armenia is great and immense ... it was as much as 300 km. Now take a map of modern Armenia, a ruler, look at the scale of the map and measure what territory "Uncle Vanya" gave you, compare - after all, everything is known by comparison ... "Uncle Vanya", not dad, not grandfather and not great-grandfather could not do this preserve, protect and inherit after themselves.
    It is simply a sin to argue after this, to do something in defiance, or even evil. Russia is older, you once had a cult of respect for elders.

    And now let's see where Euphrates and Cilicia and Armenia are, and where are Sevan and Araks and what is the distance from Yerevan to Euphrates along the borders of Cilicia? ...

    There was already one "historian" who had gone somewhere and can be seen still crawling on the map in search of "Great Armenia".


    Understand correctly. I'm pretty harsh with the Nazis and nothing more. Your opponents will crawl here, too, will hear from me a lot and in the eyes about their tales. Do you think they now like to read the debunking of their myths about "One people, two states", but their entire recent history is based on fraternization with alien Ottoman Turks and the maximum distance from their brothers in Persia / Iran? Also, apparently, they would like to object and attract Herodotus.
    We normally live here with the Armenians, one of the most famous Armenian women now in the media circles, whom the Soros bedding instructed to cook dolma - this smart girl studied before my eyes, plus it so happened that I saw the stage of the beginning of her career. Just be afraid of your ass-heads, they will not bring you to any good, she did not immediately decide and wrote not at all stupidity. You don't listen to us, so at least listen to your intelligent fellow countrymen.
    1. Seminol
      Seminol 6 August 2020 23: 48 New
      +1
      Dear I about Ivan and you about the idiot. Well, since you wrote, then give me a text with a link where Herodotus claims that the Armenians moved from the Balkans. Moreover, speaking of 15 settlements, Herodotus indicates not the length of the territory of Armenia, but only the length of the track. Different things aren't they? It's like supposing that if the road from Iran through Armenia to Nakhidezhan is 30 km, then the length of the territory of Armenia is 30 km. But if you want to more clearly imagine what ancient historians wrote about the borders of Armenia, it is better to read Xenophon. It has clearer information with the geography of its borders. But I referred specifically to Herodotus not in terms of the borders of Armenia, but as an ancient witness and historian who wrote about Armenia and Armenians in the 5th century BC. And by the way, the Echmiadzin monastery was built by the Armenians only in 303, that is, almost 750 years after the history of Herodotus. I am this to your post "About the MILLENNIUM YEARS you turned it down ... About Echmiadzin - name the date when the Armenian relics from Cilicia were transported there and what was the name of this state to which the Armenians transported all their goods?"... Now with regard to our attitude towards Russia. Our Russian brothers with whom we lived and fought shoulder to shoulder with all kinds of dishonesty for centuries. Many Russian volunteers fought for us in Karabakh. By the way, there is a monument in honor of those Cossacks who fell in this war. Therefore, between the Armenians and the Russians there are no older or younger ones, there is a historical brotherhood tempered by blood and history, and no one can change this - neither Pashinyan, nor Soros, nor anyone else. Remember: Pashinyan is not Armenia and Armenia is not Pashinyan. Pashinyan is unlikely to pass in the next elections, but the alliance and friendship between Armenians and Russians will remain after him.
    2. Pattor
      Pattor 7 August 2020 00: 08 New
      +3
      When he lived in Dagestan, Azerbaijanis were always called local Persians. says something). There is a historical region in Iran - there is southern Azerbaijan. Also a fact. What about Derbent, I didn't understand which one to give? Then the zagatala whites should be taken from Azerbaijan
  18. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 7 August 2020 00: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: Pattor
    When he lived in Dagestan, Azerbaijanis were always called local Persians. says something). There is a historical region in Iran - there is southern Azerbaijan. Also a fact. What about Derbent, I didn't understand which one to give? Then the zagatala whites should be taken from Azerbaijan
    Well, read other topics, including old ones, where neighbors from Transcaucasia talked about the Derbent Khanate hi I then specially esteemed, and indeed when our troops occupied Derbent, the majority of the population were Persian Turks (Azerbaijanis), the most numerous minority were Mountain Jews. Only as I understand now that the majority, that minority, long ago joined the population of Moskabad, but if anything, they were expelled ... to Moscow, in trains, and they resisted laughing

    About Zagatala and Belokany. I don’t know about Belokany, then I’ll read it somehow - where it is and what it is. And Zagatala is well-known, I know that there are Avars - drawing the borders of Soviet Azerbaijan, created a problem for our two North Caucasian peoples, Avars and Lezgins, when the USSR was still okay, there were essentially administrative borders. But with the collapse of the USSR, the border divided these peoples, some of them now remained abroad. Plus, when demarcating the borders, I don't remember the details, but our "strategists" again did something there, the locals were unhappy.
    Somehow they tried to solve the problem of Avars and Lezgins through a second citizenship, they began to issue our passports to those who remained abroad in order to simplify movement and make life easier - this region is one of the poorest. But that was already after 08.08.08. and the younger Aliyev saw this as an analogy with South Ossetia, immediately adopted a law banning second citizenship.
  19. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 7 August 2020 01: 11 New
    -1
    Quote: Seminol
    Our Russian brothers with whom we lived and fought shoulder to shoulder with all kinds of dishonesty for centuries. Many Russian volunteers fought for us in Karabakh. By the way, there is a monument in honor of those Cossacks who fell in this war. Therefore, between Armenians and Russians there are no older or younger ones, there is a historical brotherhood tempered by blood and history, and no one can change this - neither Pashinyan, nor Soros, nor anyone else. Remember: Pashinyan is not Armenia and Armenia is not Pashinyan. Pashinyan is unlikely to pass in the next elections, but the alliance and friendship between Armenians and Russians will remain after him.
    Alaverdi drinks Here we have it and spin, both me and you wink
    ... but unfortunately, judging by the experience of Ukraine and Georgia, Pashinyan and Co. will not just give up and at least break the wood. They are going to aggravate again, judging by the news. You are still lucky that, unlike, for example, Ukraine, you do not yet have strong attempts to confront you with each other.

    The Russians fought on both sides when the USSR collapsed. The Cossacks joined a little later.

    And for other questions, open the map, see where Thrace was located and how your ancestors went to Asia Minor.

    And do not take it all as an insult and humiliation, not only in your country, but in our country too, they have gotten into this story and have deceived the peoples so much that Mama don't grieve. For decades, the Natsiks sat at the Academy of Sciences of Ukraine and poisoned everything little by little and gradually, the same thing happened with you. Similar processes were going on with us, only rather the opposite, when the role of the Russians was humiliated.
    1. Seminol
      Seminol 7 August 2020 19: 21 New
      +2
      drinks Let's have a drink :)
      In the cases of Ukraine and Georgia, the situation was the same. In Armenia, the main opposition political parties, which, moreover, have quite serious resources, have a pronounced pro-Russian mood. This was not the case either in Ukraine or Georgia. Considering this and the fact that the absolute majority of the population of Armenia is in the same mood about Russia, these parties will not be difficult with, say, a serious attempt by Pashinyan to harm relations with Russia, in the same way to overthrow the power of Pashinyan, as if he decided, for example, to leave Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan. You know, the Armenian-Russian relations are not even subject to discussion. And even if we discard the emotional part of these relations based on people's feelings, then even a mole understands that for Armenia they are a matter of direct state security. And the one who goes on adventures in such matters cannot be called anything other than a national traitor. Everyone knows how to deal with such people. Pashinyan is aware of this and I do not think that he will agree to this, regardless of whether he appeals to Russia or not.
      Now about historical realities) In Armenia at different times there was a kingdom of Ervantids, Artashesids, Arshakids and Bagratids. Each of them had its own princely houses with their own possessions and the most extensive territories during the existence of each of them were during the time of King Tigran the Great of the Artashesids (1st century BC). But on average, the territory of Armenia during these kingdoms ranged from 100000 to 450 sq / km: You can check this information both in Russian and foreign sources (British, Iranian, etc.).
  20. ilgar72
    ilgar72 7 August 2020 12: 56 New
    +1
    What the author wrote was in Soviet times, before Soviet times there was Tsarist Russia, and everyone understands how Armenia was created in Muslim territories by ousting the local population. This is in the Russian archives and unfortunately it is not possible to raise it at the moment. Here, I offer an article in Russian newspapers of 1918.
    - The ethnic and territorial demarcation of the South Caucasus in 1918 disrupted the centuries-old economic and lifestyle of its population, thereby causing sharp conflicts about future borders between the formed national states. This is clearly illustrated by the example of such a region as Nagorno-Karabakh.
    The conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, which began in 1918, aggravated relations between Armenians and Azerbaijanis and became the beginning of tragic events in the fate of the two peoples in the subsequent period.
    On the eve of the collapse of the Russian Empire, the territory of Karabakh was part of the Elizavetpol province and included four districts: Shusha, Zangezur, Dzhevanshir and Karyaginsky (later Dzhebrail). The total population of Karabakh, according to the Caucasian calendar for 1917, was 242 thousand Armenians and 322 thousand Muslims. At the same time, many Armenian artisans and workers were attributed to the number of Karabakh Armenians, who did not actually constitute the settled population of Karabakh.
    Shusha, the main administrative and political center of the region, numbered, according to the same source, 43869 people, among whom there were about 2 thousand Russians, and the rest of the population was equally divided by Muslims and Armenians. The latter fact later played an important role in the fact that the government of Azerbaijan could not firmly consolidate its political sovereignty over Nagorno-Karabakh.
    Shusha is located at the upper end of a mountain road that starts on the plain where Agdam is located. This was the only road that allowed getting to the center of Nagorno-Karabakh with adjoining mountainous regions. The second road passed through Gerus to Zangezur. Their availability actually ensured the city's vitality.
    Halfway between Aghdam and Shusha, among the mountains stood the Askeran fortress. Shusha was surrounded by 12 Armenian villages, among which there was only one Muslim village - Malybeyli. The living space of Armenian peasants in Nagorno-Karabakh stretched between the cities of Shusha and Agdam from south to north in a strip more than 100 kilometers long. However, there were no places of compact residence of Armenians within this region. Armenian peasants settled mainly in the inaccessible gorges of the Caucasian foothills. The Armenian villages were surrounded by Muslim settlements who came from the mountains and plains.
    Practically, Armenians, like Muslims, depended on free access to mountains and valleys. The Armenians lived off the sale of their agricultural products in Shusha and on the plain leading to Aghdam in the Jevanshir district. Armenian itinerant and seasonal laborers employed in Baku also needed connections with their native mountain villages.
    Muslim pastoralists and lowland people could not have survived without the high mountain summer pastures of Zangezur, which could only be reached by passing with their herds through the Armenian villages. As a result, quite often during the driving of the cattle, clashes arose between them. Before the revolution, the tsarist administration tried to defuse these conflicts by sending armed escorts and providing special paths for driving livestock. But after both conflicting parties were left to their own devices, in the atmosphere of incredible chaos that arose as a result of the war and the collapse of Transcaucasia into national states, there was no other force capable of restraining the violence.
    As a result, the conflicts, which arose mainly against the background of differences in lifestyles, were transferred by local Armenian leaders into the mainstream of the national struggle for self-determination.
    In 1918, Nagorno-Karabakh became one of the main objects of Armenia's territorial claims to Azerbaijan. As follows from the statement of the Azerbaijan National Council of June 14, 1918, during a joint meeting with representatives of the Armenian National Council in Tiflis, a verbal agreement was reached on the issue of delimiting territories. This agreement was based on the agreement of the parties, reached back in Batum, that Azerbaijan would not object to the declaration of Erivan as the capital of Armenia, and in response to this gesture of goodwill, Armenia would abandon its claim to a part of the Elizavetopol province, that is, to the mountainous part of Karabakh. ...
    However, the Armenian side refused to conduct negotiations in such a format. Armenian Foreign Minister A. Hogandzhanyan wrote about this in his telegram dated July 8, 1918, the chairman of the Armenian delegation A. Aharonyan from Istanbul, where, from the end of June 1918, delegations of the governments of the republics of the South Caucasus began to gather for an upcoming conference with the participation of the countries of the Quadruple Alliance. ended without beginning.
    Aharonian's telegram noted that the Batumi talks completely lost their meaning, since they concerned the borders of the Transcaucasian districts, and not three independent states. Now the Armenian side believed that the minimum borders required by them had changed and should include Shusha, Karyagino, Jevanshir, Zangezur, Daralagez, Surmali, Nakhchivan, Sharur. Thus, Armenia tried to expand its borders at the expense of those territories of the Elizavetpol and Erivan provinces, where the number of the Muslim population exceeded the Armenian one. Therefore, the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of Azerbaijan F.H. Khoisky, in his dispatch dated July 31, 1918 to the head of the Azerbaijani delegation at the Istanbul conference, M.E. Rasulzade, proposed to abandon the concessions of Erivan and a part of the Gazakh district of Armenia if the Armenians declare claims to Karabakh.
    If before 1918 the term "Nagorno-Karabakh" had only a geographical meaning, then with the formation of independent states in the South Caucasus, the Armenians began to put political content into it. Taking advantage of the fact that in the first months of independence the government of the Republic of Azerbaijan was completely occupied with the issue of the liberation of Baku, the Karabakh Armenians convened on July 22, 1918, the so-called. The First Peasants' Congress decided to create its own administrative authorities in Nagorno-Karabakh, headed by the National Council.
    The part of the main violin in this "government" was played by the Armenian rural intelligentsia, which has a motley political coloration (Dashnaks, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Bolsheviks). As always, in the activities of the local Armenian theocracy, purely national-political goals prevailed over religious functions proper.
    The attempt of the Azerbaijani government, starting in the summer of 1918, to disarm the Armenian population of Karabakh in order to establish order in the region, caused an ambiguous reaction from the Armenian government, which, on the one hand, welcomed "the desire of the Azerbaijani government to adhere to a peaceful policy towards its citizens of Armenian origin" the other, considered it "insistently necessary to suspend its disarmament, until the final determination of the borders of the republics."
    Soon, the Karabakh separatists received military support from Andranik's troops. According to the Extraordinary Investigative Commission of the Government of the Republic of Azerbaijan, during the punitive operations of Andranik's detachments in late summer and autumn 1918, 115 Muslim villages were destroyed in the Zangezur district alone, more than 10 thousand people were killed, about 50 thousand became refugees. It is interesting that in a telegram to the diplomatic representative of Azerbaijan in Georgia dated August 17, 1918, the Armenian government refused to admit its involvement in the actions of Andranik's detachment, which allegedly did not obey the Armenian authorities, therefore, was expelled from the Armenian troops and acted independently.
    The Azerbaijani government tried to take control of the situation in the region by appointing commandants from Turkish officers to Shusha, Aghdam and Karyagin, whose power was not recognized by the local Armenian leaders. On the eve of the entry of Turkish troops into Shusha, delegates of Armenians (comrades of the mayor of Elizavetpol) and Azerbaijanis were sent here to prepare the population for the upcoming entry of Turkish troops.
    To prevent a further escalation of violence in the region, at the beginning of October 1918, Turkish troops, led by Cemil Javad Bey, entered Shusha, who demanded that the Armenians disarm in exchange for a guarantee of their life and property.
    The Armenian leaders immediately convened an extraordinary congress, which only on the fifth day decided to recognize the power of Azerbaijan. The disarmament of the Armenian part of Shushi began, which, as the newspaper "Azerbaijan" wrote in the issue of October 19, 1918, began to be decorated with Armenians before the arrival of Turkish military units.
    Despite these steps, the tension in Karabakh, intensified by various rumors about an imminent new offensive by Andranik's troops, did not subside and persisted until the withdrawal of Turkish troops, after which control over the region passed into the hands of the British troops that arrived in Azerbaijan in the second half of November 1918. On the basis of F.Kh. Khoisky's written appeal to Thomson about the atrocities committed by Andranik in Karabakh, the general on December 1, 1918 demanded that the latter cease hostilities against the Azerbaijani population. At the same time, in the first days of December 1918, General Thomson, in his telegrams, urging the Armenian leaders in the Ganja, Gazakh, Jevanshir districts to immediately stop the atrocities and looting, warned them: "Notify all Armenians to sit quietly in their homes. In case of disobedience, you will be directly be responsible for the spilled blood. "
    Of course, the Armenian leaders were not ready for such a turn of events, as well as for the fact that in January 1919, by order of the British command in Karabakh and Zangezur, a governor-general would be created under the control of the Azerbaijani government.
  21. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 7 August 2020 15: 48 New
    0
    Quote: ilgar72
    ....
    All the above is only evidence that an arm or a leg cut off from the body cannot live independently. By being cut off from Persia and losing a large part of the nobility and elites, you got a vacuum. Even a part of the Turkish elite that was included in the Russian officer corps, subsequently for the most part left the Russian Empire and went to Persia.
    Your various Khoyskies, as I’ve read not for the first time, squandered Turkish lands to the right and left, and changed owners like gloves, now the Ottoman Turks, then the British. Are you writing or quoting about some Andranik (this is conditional, I know who we are talking about), but where is some Magomed and his army? If you believe the above, the Armenian troops destroyed 10 thousand. Turks are a huge figure even now, but at that time it was simply colossal, taking into account the population of the entire Transcaucasia, and where is your resistance? The number of Armenians both now and then has always been two or three times less than the number of Turks, but we only hear from your fellow countrymen about what the Armenians massacred there, the Armenians massacred here, but what about you, where are your adranics, where is the resistance?
    History repeated itself in the 80s and 90s, the same story, the Armenians create the ANA (Armenian National Army), their factories produce small arms and even grenade launchers, you rely on the USSR Internal Troops, the maximum of your participation is the OMON. Then the collapse of the USSR, you get huge stocks of weapons, many times more Armenians, but again someone is to blame and you blow the Armenians clean, they again slaughter you like sheep, about which you run and trumpet all over the world now.
    It’s not about the Armenians, but about yourself. All of you are to blame, but not you, they say now "Moscow" is to blame, then "Moscow" is also to blame, despite the fact that there are more of you, you get more weapons, but you run away leaving your lands and again anyone is to blame, but not you ...
    Can you imagine a situation when the Germans are standing near Moscow, and Stalin and all the top leadership are busy at this time building palaces, holding races or singing contests? You still have more money and, accordingly, the same weapons, more population, so what? ... If you do not want to defend your lands, do not want to study and fight, who is to blame? ... You lost the war, but you have more heroes of Azerbaijan than the same heroes of Armenia, which defeated you ...
    In response, scribble a lot of things now, but in fact there is one answer, the reason is in yourself.
  22. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 7 August 2020 21: 15 New
    -1
    Quote: Seminol
    ... to overthrow the power of Pashinyan in the same way, as if he decided, for example, to leave Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan.
    Here I think the situation was the opposite.
    Paradoxical as it may seem, but in fact Serge Sargsyan was going to transfer Karabakh to Azerbaijan. After all, the withdrawal of units of the Armenian Armed Forces from the regions around the administrative borders of the former NKAO, which were negotiated, led to the loss of Karabakh in the medium term and the complete exodus of Armenians from it.
    Not the most popular solution, to put it mildly, but in this case there is no time for emotions and the pragmatics of politics are acting. This decision, though difficult, but in a long-term, speaking pathetically, historical context, would be beneficial first of all for Armenia, and secondly for our interests. But how the return of a part of the territories and the removal of Karabakh from the agenda, after the victorious fanfares have died down, is still a very big and big question, for the internal political situation in Azerbaijan ...

    For Pashinyan, a similar decision, or even a game of negotiations with death, is similar. It is also dangerous now to go to the aggravation in Karabakh for some short-term political purposes. Well, for example, the simplest - to divert the attention of the population from internal problems, and this is the favorite hobby of both Srakisyan and Kocharyan and their counterpart Aliyev. The escalation in Karabakh is now 99% the beginning of the war by Azerbaijan.
    Moreover, he is preparing for it and has achieved significant, though not indisputable, successes in this, and the Azerbaijani Armed Forces have in many ways an advantage over yours. But the economic situation is also a powerful catalyst here. It is clear that you are not in the best economic situation, if not in the worst, but Azerbaijan is also now in an economic crisis and plunges into it deeper and deeper with a raw material economy, and living mainly on the export of hydrocarbons, the prices of which have dropped significantly. Economic problems are always a destabilizing factor for the internal political situation, and the current leadership of Azerbaijan, apparently, is not able to solve them. It has some kind of reserve and margin of safety, but it is not sufficient to maintain the standard of living of the population at the previous, pre-crisis level, and judging by what I read, the current authorities cannot count on the patience of the population. Thus, there is no way to reduce the standard of living of the population, saving reserves and stretching them to better times, unless there is a war. Mobilizing the economy for war, etc., is another story and apparently the Azerbaijani authorities have great room for maneuver here.
    Many analysts, journalists, etc., often emphasize that a defeat for Azerbaijan can lead to internal political changes and believe that precisely such fears are one of the restraining factors for Aliyev and his entourage, personally I think these are erroneous judgments and conclusions. Rather, on the contrary, Aliyev and his entourage are now looking for an excuse to start either a war or conduct local, but rather large in terms of the forces and means involved, operations in Karabakh. I believe that Pashinyan, and his puppeteers, and our authorities are of the same opinion, that is why the fuss was started along the state border with Azerbaijan, and not in Karabakh. Otherwise, we would now be discussing the summaries of hostilities. And besides, it would be all too obvious and substitute Pashinyan, nullifying all the efforts and work of the last years of the Sorosites and the State Department.
    According to the alignment of forces, Azerbaijan today may not achieve a global victory, but in any case it is no longer threatened with defeat. And any, even local and insignificant, success again plays into the hands of his leadership, so the war now, in any case, plays into the hands of the Azerbaijanis. And the fact that Pashinyan began to pull them by the balls not in Karabakh, but on the state border, only a cover for your population, it is dangerous for him to act directly in Karabakh, because he and his puppeteers need to take Armenia away from Russia, deploying to the West and at the same time without substituting themselves and completely substituting us, Russia.

    The beginning of the war in Karabakh is very unprofitable for us, you are our ally, of course, military operations will be conducted formally outside the boundaries of the CSTO responsibility and blah blah. But again, you are our ally, in any case we will support you, but the problem is that if Azerbaijan clearly does not have the army that they draw and present in the "creative" videos of the Ministry of Defense, it is clear to solve the problems in Karabakh in its favor already within our power, we can only slow down the pace of remaining in the shadows, using first of all electronic warfare to deprive them of their advantage in UAVs, command and control, etc., up to the participation of some of our units from the base, but this we cannot create for you advantage. And your defeat, and all the more loss in manpower, will cause direct damage to you and at least indirect to us.

    Therefore, once again speaking about Pashinyan. I am sure that he will still throw out his knee under the guidance of the puppeteers and I am more than sure that a certain set-up and defeat of Armenia in Karabakh is one of their main scenarios. Yes, he often goes to Karabakh, sent his son there to serve, but all this is nothing more than a game and a cover in my opinion. The most painful prick that can be inflicted on the Armenians is not even Sargsyan's plan and, in one way or another, the soft surrender of Karabakh and, for example, strong disillusionment in society, namely the military defeat of Armenia and the transfer of arrows to us. I think in the event of the outbreak of hostilities, there will be sabotage by the Soros chicks, etc., etc., and all this will be anticipated and accompanied by anti-Russian rhetoric. Read the posts of some of your fellow countrymen - the seeds have already been sown ...
    1. Seminol
      Seminol 7 August 2020 23: 12 New
      +1
      I understood you. However, I do not agree that Sargsyan was going to transfer Karabakh to Azerbaijan. Yes, there were such gossip, but they do not have a serious basis. And the fact that Sargsyan was going to withdraw Armenian units from Karabakh is also false information, if only because formally there are no RA army units in Karabakh. Karabakh has its own armed forces, headed by the president of Karabakh with its own defense minister, generals, officers, etc. Do you think Serge Sargsyan could order them to leave Karabakh or convince the residents of Nagorno Karabakh to leave their homes? ) It would be from the genre of fantasy.
      In 2016, when the April war began, everyone in Armenia strove for war in Karabakh, although even then very few people loved and trusted Sargsyan and his team. I mean, no matter who is in power, the problem of Karabakh is the problem of all Armenians. There is no one to hand over Karabakh to Azerbaijan.
      And on account of the clash on the border with Armenia, everything is different. In fact, you should not look for a conspiracy theory where it simply does not exist. The Azerbaijani post around which all this happened had a very dominant position over our posts, and our border villages were in line of sight from this post. The Azerbaijanis regularly fired at our posts and these villages from there (mainly from a large-caliber sniper rifle). In fact, this section of the border has always been the second most tense after Karabakh, and this is not the first time, there were frequent clashes there under Sargsyan. Now this very post is already in our hands, and from a positional point of view, the situation has turned backwards in our favor, since Azerbaijani posts and villages are already under our direct observation. I will only add that the commander of this operation was the son of the former CSTO Secretary General Khachaturov, against whom, on the initiative of the same Pashinyan, a criminal case has now been opened. It would be a strange union for such intrigues, isn't it?
      But on the other hand, I agree with you that yes, there are forces in Armenia that try to blacken Russia in the eyes of the public every time there are clashes with Azerbaijanis. However, they are unlikely to be able to bring it to a serious scale, even in cases of a large-scale war, since without underestimating the military capabilities of Azerbaijan, I am sure that if such a war starts, we will win again. It's another matter if Turkey enters such a conflict. If in this case Russia retreats, then yes, all your predictions will certainly come true. But I do not believe that Russia will decide to donate Transcaucasia to the Turks.
  23. ashot1973
    ashot1973 7 August 2020 22: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: Ilshat
    Actually, I saw the Armenian builders, it's true for a long time, but it was ...
    It turns out I lied, I'm to blame ...
    The ABK was built.
    But in terms of technology, I don’t remember ...

    Ilshat isn't funny to you to read your comments ...? negative
    It can be seen that you have Armenophobia ...
  24. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 8 August 2020 02: 40 New
    0
    Quote: Seminol
    ... if only because there are no formal units of the RA army in Karabakh. Karabakh has its own armed forces, headed by the president of Karabakh with its own defense minister, generals, officers, etc. Do you think Serge Sargsyan could order them ...
    Well at least they made a reservation - formally wink And then since all the same "drank and ate" let's decide about "voentorg" this is our fairy tale, and yours about "Great Armenia", we do not encroach on your folk art, and you on our laughing

    Quote: Seminol
    And on account of the clash on the border with Armenia, everything is different. In fact, you should not look for a conspiracy theory where it simply does not exist. The Azerbaijani post around which all this happened had a very dominant position over our posts, and our border villages were in line of sight from this post. The Azerbaijanis regularly fired at our posts and these villages from there (mainly from a large-caliber sniper rifle). In fact, this section of the border has always been the second most tense after Karabakh, and this is not the first time, there were frequent clashes there under Sargsyan. Now this very post is already in our hands, and from a positional point of view, the situation has turned backwards in our favor, since Azerbaijani posts and villages are already under our direct observation. I will only add that the commander of this operation was the son of the former CSTO Secretary General Khachaturov, against whom, on the initiative of the same Pashinyan, a criminal case has now been opened. It would be a strange union for such intrigues, isn't it?
    I'll start at the end. The son of Khachaturov, as I understand it, is an officer, not a "free artist" and it is unlikely that they ask him, he is given orders and if your words correspond to reality, to put it mildly, he copes well with the tasks. Judging by the age of Khachaturov, the eldest son is at least a major-lieutenant colonel. Well, the fact that there is no purge in the army on the principle "your dad is wrong" only strengthens the army. Your counterparts have a different situation, if I am not mistaken, Aliyev took the army units away from the border with you and handed it over to the border guards, apparently giving a chance to curry favor with the commander of the border troops, he is his son-in-law. As you can see, the son-in-law screwed up, and the change of army to border guards gave you a chance that was used.
    Just did not understand then the meaning of fables about some Azerbaijani UAZ? Plus, the information on losses, to put it mildly, is perplexing - the MO counterparts regularly published videos of the strikes of their UAVs, for some it is a no brainer that you have no less losses than theirs, or even more, but the figures are scanty? True, on their side, a general, a colonel from army men and a couple of majors, either also army men, or border guards, were killed. If you know the details about the general, it’s interesting to know how they could, to catch such a bird and in such a short encounter is not so easy, but it’s hard to believe in chance.

    Quote: Seminol
    It's another matter if Turkey enters such a conflict. If in this case Russia retreats, then yes, all your predictions will certainly come true. But I do not believe that Russia will decide to donate Transcaucasia to the Turks.
    The Ottomans will not climb. Maximum Nakhichevan, and there is still a big question.
    1. the finish
      the finish 8 August 2020 09: 04 New
      0
      In terms of losses, the country is small and if there were big losses, then it probably surfaced somewhere. One of the wounded died in the hospital and the number of casualties became 5 people. The general is said to have been hit by an Armenian-made UAV at a depth of 31 km.
      1. Farid Alekperov
        Farid Alekperov 8 August 2020 21: 23 New
        -2
        Quote: finish
        In terms of losses, the country is small and if there were big losses, then it probably surfaced somewhere. One of the wounded died in the hospital and the number of casualties became 5 people.

        And the losses are surfacing slowly. Only they are recorded as losses in car accidents. Only from 6 to 8 August in 3 alleged accidents, 5 Armenian servicemen were killed and 10 injured. Along the way, the Azerbaijanis will not even need to fight if the Armenians continue to kill themselves at such a pace.

        Quote: finish
        The general is said to have been hit by an Armenian-made UAV at a depth of 31 km.


        The general died on the front line at a height as a result of a mortar strike.
    2. Seminol
      Seminol 8 August 2020 20: 32 New
      +2
      What has it to do with whether Pashinyan was informed about this operation or not?) Probably was or maybe not, I can't say. The question is that Khachaturov's son is not the commander who would play to Paishnyan's tune, arranging some intrigues on the border to the detriment of the state interests of Armenia in order to advance the personal aspirations of the same Pashinyan, who clearly seeks to see his father in prison. Understand, soldiers and especially officers are not stoves on a chessboard that you can control as you like, since you are a president and especially if it smells like treason. Another thing is a specific military operation with a specific goal of improving their own positions and ensuring the safety of their own population.
      At the expense of the UAZ ... everything is much more interesting) The fact is that we took this post without firing a single shot. Azerbaijanis regularly left this post at night and went downstairs to spend the night at home and in the morning they drove back. Apparently they believed that the minefield would not allow our people to get to this height. And this "discipline" and "responsibility" to combat service led to what it led to. The next morning when they were driving their UAZ again towards the post, we greeted them with a solemn fanfare !! ). Then everything is known. Out of surprise, they ran back across the slope, leaving the UAZ on the road, and an hour later they started bombing this skyscraper to prevent us from strengthening there. But it was not there already.
      The post was also extremely important because the supply routes for several more neighboring posts of Azerbaijanis passed through this post. In the end, things turned out even worse.
      Now about the killed general (chief of staff of the corps) and colonel (chief of artillery). Both of them were killed by a kamikaze drone in a car while rushing to the front line. Apparently, in order to avoid punishment for that bacchanalia and connivance in the troops for which they were also responsible, as well as the strategic importance of these heights, they decided to direct the fighting on the front line and not from the headquarters.
      Our losses amounted to 5 people, 4 of them died from a kamikaze drone strike during demining. One died later.
  25. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 8 August 2020 10: 49 New
    0
    Quote: finish
    In terms of losses, the country is small and if there were big losses, then it probably surfaced somewhere. One of the wounded died in the hospital and the number of casualties became 5 people.
    The size of the country does not matter. Losses are often hidden by both sides, or rather they were hiding. Your counterparts have recently, on the contrary, show all the losses with a magnificent funeral, I think that this is winding up the situation in society and setting up for war. As he wrote to your fellow countryman above, Baku is really looking for an excuse to start, if not a war, then a major operation, rather even the last one. They have enough forces and means in general, and even more so for a month - two fights, apparently the second series of 2016 was prepared.

    Quote: finish
    The general is said to have been hit by an Armenian-made UAV at a depth of 31 km.
    In such depth, it is unlikely.
    Each time I switch to a different topic, but your fellow countrymen maydanutye pull back with their opuses, and eventually you have to read both them and your media. So from what I read, it is clear that everyone is missing one detail, more precisely, the circumstance and reasons for the death of the general lying on the surface. The general is young and one of the campaigners, the fact that he was forced to climb on the front end, taking the chief of the corps artillery with him, says, even shouts into a megaphone - there were no officers on the front end. There were apparently shadows with epaulets and stars on their shoulders, but there were no officers. This is either due to the fact that the border was given to the border guards, or with a low level of officer training.

    Why is it interesting how they destroyed an enemy officer of this rank. And we supplied you with electronic warfare and intelligence systems and systems, and your counterparts bought them in Ukraine, they buy them in Turkey, Israel, Belarus.

    It's one thing if you hit it by accident. Although there are no accidents, there is only someone's sloppiness.

    It's another matter, but here you need to understand that the commander's hand is communication and communication is a gift - the power and nature of the source, frequency, location; allow you to define a goal. The same UAV then does not search blindly, but in fact performs additional reconnaissance, specifying the location and nature of the target, and adjusts the fire.
    This is the simplest algorithm, but even to implement it, neither you nor your counterpart lacked the qualifications. All that I observe is the actions of the shepherds who have read a couple of novels about the Second World War. And due to such interaction, the operation of the system, the time is reduced and the effectiveness of the use of UAVs and weapons of destruction increases.
    All this is simple, but before this incident, I repeat, there was not even a reason to think about qualifications and the operation of the system. Separately, individual elements are something like something, and neither you nor them have the use of the complex. I expected this from the Azerbaijanis in the first place, since they purchased more modern and advanced systems, plus their main UAV suppliers, the Israelis - a dog (kosher laughing ) ate on this case. In addition, when I was looking for videos on the use of UAVs, I saw stories on the opening of situational centers, that is, at least for a tick, they create points where information from all sources should flow, promptly processed and transmitted to consumers - and this, for example, but not only, and the Air Force and artillery ... That is, in theory, time is reduced, efficiency is growing, and the consumption of manpower and resources is reduced.
    In short, they do not have this, and figuratively speaking, the general is forced to crawl on his belly along the front end. Your situation was no better, if not worse, since their technique has a qualitative superiority, but there is a hint that in this case it was not just an accident, but at least somehow, but the system has already worked.
    I repeat, you have a lag in the quality of UAVs and their characteristics, but we supplied some of the latest electronic warfare systems, and in principle, in this elementary chain, this algorithm does not require UAVs with the latest technology, as they say, since there is no need to search at all , but only additional exploration and adjustment. Vis-a-vis lost a lot of officers, up to half of the losses in general, so it is likely that you have at least learned something.
  26. Gloomy skeptic
    Gloomy skeptic 8 August 2020 13: 16 New
    0
    I still do not understand - if they start a war with each other, then why will Russia suffer?
  27. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 8 August 2020 19: 20 New
    -1
    Quote: Gloomy Skeptic
    I still do not understand - if they start a war with each other, then why will Russia suffer?
    Will not suffer, according to fig. In an extreme case, a couple of new subjects of the Federation will appear. But in this way we feed a third of their population here and indirectly almost everything that remains there, otherwise everyone will sit on our necks.
    At the very least, Azerbaijan has resources, and Armenia and Georgia have been eternal parasites since Soviet times. If they have the status of Russia, their maintenance will cost us more.
    Yes, and in the process an extra headache and fuss - all their princelings will trumpet the whole world about the occupation, although we, as the legal successor of the USSR and the Russian Empire, will only return our territories. I repeat, neither Armenia has ever been there, nor has Azerbaijan ever been as a sovereign state, these are our territories conquered from Persia.

    And by the way, if the most honest referendum is held there, the majority of the population will vote for returning to Russia.
  28. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 9 August 2020 00: 43 New
    -1
    Quote: Farid Alekperov

    And the losses are surfacing slowly. Only they are recorded as losses in car accidents. Only from 6 to 8 August in 3 alleged accidents, 5 Armenian servicemen were killed and 10 injured. Along the way, the Azerbaijanis will not even need to fight if the Armenians continue to kill themselves at such a pace.
    I read on some of your resources about "private Ovragzade".
    Only here we are not talking about 5-6 200's, I think more, but if you believe your MO, so the loss of almost 100 people.

    So did the Armenians take the height or not?
  29. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 9 August 2020 09: 19 New
    0
    Quote: Farid Alekperov
    The general died on the front line at a height as a result of a mortar strike.
    As I understand it, it even got into one of the videos of your counterparts - was there a video with filming from a UAV and covering the jeep with mortars?

    Can you translate what this video is about? They sent your lands, but only realized that the height of "Garagay" (Black Rock?), But about Agdam is often remembered.
  30. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 9 August 2020 09: 50 New
    0
    Quote: Seminol
    What has it to do with whether Pashinyan was informed about this operation or not?) Probably was or maybe not, I can't say. The question is that Khachaturov's son is not the commander who would play to Paishnyan's tune, arranging some intrigues on the border to the detriment of the state interests of Armenia in order to advance the personal aspirations of the same Pashinyan, who clearly seeks to see his father in prison. Understand, soldiers and especially officers are not stoves on a chessboard that you can control as you like, since you are a president and especially if it smells like treason. Another thing is a specific military operation with a specific goal of improving their own positions and ensuring the safety of their own population.
    At the expense of the UAZ ... everything is much more interesting) The fact is that we took this post without firing a single shot. Azerbaijanis regularly left this post at night and went downstairs to spend the night at home and in the morning they drove back. Apparently they believed that the minefield would not allow our people to get to this height. And this "discipline" and "responsibility" to combat service led to what it led to. The next morning when they were driving their UAZ again towards the post, we greeted them with a solemn fanfare !! ). Then everything is known. Out of surprise, they ran back across the slope, leaving the UAZ on the road, and an hour later they started bombing this skyscraper to prevent us from strengthening there. But it was not there already.
    The post was also extremely important because the supply routes for several more neighboring posts of Azerbaijanis passed through this post. In the end, things turned out even worse.
    Now about the killed general (chief of staff of the corps) and colonel (chief of artillery). Both of them were killed by a kamikaze drone in a car while rushing to the front line. Apparently, in order to avoid punishment for that bacchanalia and connivance in the troops for which they were also responsible, as well as the strategic importance of these heights, they decided to direct the fighting on the front line and not from the headquarters.
    Our losses amounted to 5 people, 4 of them died from a kamikaze drone strike during demining. One died later.



    Ay-y-yay ... And how to understand this? Again "Great Armenia from sea to sea" which never existed?
    Looks like a sin on me, he offered to drink, but he didn't take care that you had a bite, and what a drunken man has on his tongue, then a sober one in his mind. But in the mind, this is desirable and should not be passed off as real in language.

    That is why you cannot be equal partners to us, you have not grown up to that and you can do nothing without us. Just lie and lie. It goes away with age.
    What kind of son of Khachturov captured what height ?! ... How wretched everything looks. As they sent, I looked specifically on the map, checked.
    Little angry and fraudulent children negative
    1. Seminol
      Seminol 9 August 2020 10: 18 New
      +1
      If you dug at least a little bit in the google, you would understand that Great Armenia is the geographical name of the kingdom of Artashedi king Artashes 1st. In addition to Great Armenia, there was also Lesser Armenia, Sophena. So read the story better!
      And at the expense of your sofa investigations in az sources on account of the fact that what is what and equality between Armenia and Russia I will not comment. You yourself are not yet mature enough to understand the essence of the Armenian-Russian relations and what is the essence of the alliance.
  31. Karenius
    Karenius 9 August 2020 10: 47 New
    +1
    We'll have to clean up the Augean stables ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Persian Turks, who are usually called Azerbaijanis and Ottoman Turks, are TWO DIFFERENT Turkic peoples. Moreover, historically, they have never practically been allies, and constantly competed with each other, including more than once fought among themselves. The languages, customs, traditions and religion of the Persian and Ottoman Turks have HUGE differences between them.

    But with the development of the theory of Pan-Turkism, this is no longer a fact ... As an example - the Baku Communards feared that the Turks could put up to 200000 Persian Turks under arms against the commune ...

    Let's make a short excursion into history ... The fact that Persia fought a lot against Turkey is also due to the fact that the ruling dynasty often included not Turks, but Kurds ... Safavids, for example ... A very interesting moment - after 20 + years after the capture of Constantinople, the ruler of Kara-Koyunov told the ambassadors of Genoa and Burgundy to convey to their own - the State of Kara-Koyunov is ready to strike the Ottomans together with them ... No European would refuse such a freebie ... But, as I understand it , the fifth column of these strong principalities carried out their work against this plan, bursting, that is ... And then the Sephardic people organized the movement of Jews to Turkey ... And, in order to divert the views of the Spanish military about licking towards the Turkish lands, they organized "the discovery of America "Columbus ...
    ... The middle of the 15th century ... London Jews (these are those whose ancestors, together with the Angles and Saxons, landed on the island for its colonization, judo) began to promote the theory of Pan-Turkism ... Since at this time the word "Turk" in the Ottoman Empire it was rather with an abusive meaning ... they carried out a colossal work to praise everything Turkic ... The Armenians also interfered with this in the empire, therefore the Armenian pogroms began ... And when power in the empire passed to the Donma, then the genocide of the XNUMXth year ... ...
    In the Russian Empire, the Armenians also hindered the advancement of Pan-Turkism, therefore, Jewish money first bribed high-ranking civil servants, and then organized the Armenian-Tatar pogroms themselves (here, in fact, it would not hurt to find out if Nakashidze was a Georgian or a Georgian Jew?)
    ... The First World War began ... The fact that the main instigators of this action were the New York and London Ashkenazi, I have shown more than once ... at least by the example of the participation of American battleships that they did not allow the landing of allied troops in Cilicia, due to for which the failure of the Dardanelles operation occurred ...
    ... Orders from the City of London were constantly coming, for example, for this, Lawrence of Arabia was often "taken prisoner" ... For his pleasure, he received gang rapes, in between which he reported orders to promote Pan-Turkism, to create Turan ... In the territories of today's Az-n, there was also a large Armenian component, in solidarity with the Russians, so they jumped straight to Central Asia ... The massacre of the Russians began, so Ivan had to cut out a third of the aborigines of the Turkic ethnic group ...
    ... And at this time, on the territory of the Ottoman Empire, the Ashkenazi were solving global problems ... Parvus and Trotsky, as a visual aid ... (By the way, it is no coincidence that recently a man who worked in Anatolia was appointed the head of British intelligence)
    Well, it makes no sense to talk about the Ashkenazi participation in the Bolshevik coup, everyone knows ... After that, the Pan-Turkists became active again ... The Baku commune began the massacre of the local Turks, they decided to destroy them at the root ... But then the Zionists from the top of the Dashnaks intervened ... They settled the Turks in the barracks, put up protection, and then - stood between the warring parties, not allowing the massacre to take place ... (and six months later there was already a massacre of Armenians - this is when the Bolsheviks of Moscow ordered to leave Baku)
    ... Well, luckily for the Russian ethnos, then the Georgian Stalin cleared out the Trotskyists from Russia ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Forgive me, Lord, but if you believe you and those like you, then all the few Armenians of those times, and ELDERLY old, young, women, and kids were ALWAYS stonecutters and only engaged in running ALL OVER Asia Minor, plus the Black Sea countries with a chisel in their hands and everywhere signed "here was Rapik", "here was Khachik".

    About 10 years ago, the British made a film about the history of Sofia, almost about every stone, but for some reason :) they did not say that the main restorer after the destruction from the earthquake was an Armenian from Ani ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Here, in one of the topics, one of your Natsiks got the nerve and poured crap on Russia, and interfered with the same of its famous politicians. Primakov did not please him, they say, the Khazars, just because you see, he did not make some kind of curtsy towards the Armenians, then something else.

    As I understand it, the interpretation of my messages went ... I did not water Russia ... And its authorities are not Russia, they can do any meanness without blinking, as, for example, they surrendered the Serbs ...
    Well, there is a separate demand from Primakov ... And not for agreeing with Turkey that they will not get involved in the planned war in Chechnya (as I understand, in return, the Russian Federation stops the Armenians of Karabakh, preventing access to the Kur) ... In general -that, it won't hurt to find out ... As I understand it, Rutskoy could not have been the initiator of the stupid start in Chechnya ... But the Khazar Primakov - definitely could, against the Russian ethnos ...
    We didn't need any curtsies from him ... I repeat, I consider him the author of October 27.10.99, 10 ... The fact that Kocharyan will be the first person not only in Karabakh, but also in Armenia - .......... ...... even 10 years before these events ... And, as I understand it, it was he who could write a recommendation for the admission of Kocharyan to the ranks of the Masons, since Kocharyan is a rare scum ... By the way, you rightly noticed that Serge handed over both the security belt, and the machine gun and Karabakh, but XNUMX years before that Robik simply stopped the settlement of the lands liberated from the Turk ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    The fools poisoned by the Nazis do not realize that only a strong Russia can continue to defend Armenia and patronize it, and Primakov and many others with whom your ass-heads are unhappy, did everything to make Russia strong.
    A similar rewriting ...

    Listen, back-headed, you did not answer my question to the local Primakov fans: "Why did Primakov, along with Bakatin (!!!) have to hide during the GKChP days at the dacha of one of the destroyers of the USSR, Volsky?"
    Find and read that article by Konstantin Zatulin, on the entire newspaper page, where he showed then that it was Primakov who was the puppeteer of all the non-Russian politics of your Foreign Ministry ...
  32. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 9 August 2020 13: 04 New
    0
    Quote: Karenius
    We'll have to clean up the Augean stables ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Persian Turks, who are usually called Azerbaijanis and Ottoman Turks, are TWO DIFFERENT Turkic peoples. Moreover, historically, they have never practically been allies, and constantly competed with each other, including more than once fought among themselves. The languages, customs, traditions and religion of the Persian and Ottoman Turks have HUGE differences between them.

    But with the development of the theory of Pan-Turkism, this is no longer a fact ... As an example - the Baku Communards feared that the Turks could put up to 200000 Persian Turks under arms against the commune ...

    Let's make a short excursion into history ... The fact that Persia fought a lot against Turkey is also due to the fact that the ruling dynasty often included not Turks, but Kurds ... Safavids, for example ... A very interesting moment - after 20 + years after the capture of Constantinople, the ruler of Kara-Koyunov told the ambassadors of Genoa and Burgundy to convey to their own - the State of Kara-Koyunov is ready to strike the Ottomans together with them ... No European would refuse such a freebie ... But, as I understand it , the fifth column of these strong principalities carried out their work against this plan, bursting, that is ... And then the Sephardic people organized the movement of Jews to Turkey ... And, in order to divert the views of the Spanish military about licking towards the Turkish lands, they organized "the discovery of America "Columbus ...
    ... The middle of the 15th century ... London Jews (these are those whose ancestors, together with the Angles and Saxons, landed on the island for its colonization, judo) began to promote the theory of Pan-Turkism ... Since at this time the word "Turk" in the Ottoman Empire it was rather with an abusive meaning ... they carried out a colossal work to praise everything Turkic ... The Armenians also interfered with this in the empire, therefore the Armenian pogroms began ... And when power in the empire passed to the Donma, then the genocide of the XNUMXth year ... ...
    In the Russian Empire, the Armenians also hindered the advancement of Pan-Turkism, therefore, Jewish money first bribed high-ranking civil servants, and then organized the Armenian-Tatar pogroms themselves (here, in fact, it would not hurt to find out if Nakashidze was a Georgian or a Georgian Jew?)
    ... The First World War began ... The fact that the main instigators of this action were the New York and London Ashkenazi, I have shown more than once ... at least by the example of the participation of American battleships that they did not allow the landing of allied troops in Cilicia, due to for which the failure of the Dardanelles operation occurred ...
    ... Orders from the City of London were constantly coming, for example, for this, Lawrence of Arabia was often "taken prisoner" ... For his pleasure, he received gang rapes, in between which he reported orders to promote Pan-Turkism, to create Turan ... In the territories of today's Az-n, there was also a large Armenian component, in solidarity with the Russians, so they jumped straight to Central Asia ... The massacre of the Russians began, so Ivan had to cut out a third of the aborigines of the Turkic ethnic group ...
    ... And at this time, on the territory of the Ottoman Empire, the Ashkenazi were solving global problems ... Parvus and Trotsky, as a visual aid ... (By the way, it is no coincidence that recently a man who worked in Anatolia was appointed the head of British intelligence)
    Well, it makes no sense to talk about the Ashkenazi participation in the Bolshevik coup, everyone knows ... After that, the Pan-Turkists became active again ... The Baku commune began the massacre of the local Turks, they decided to destroy them at the root ... But then the Zionists from the top of the Dashnaks intervened ... They settled the Turks in the barracks, put up protection, and then - stood between the warring parties, not allowing the massacre to take place ... (and six months later there was already a massacre of Armenians - this is when the Bolsheviks of Moscow ordered to leave Baku)
    ... Well, luckily for the Russian ethnos, then the Georgian Stalin cleared out the Trotskyists from Russia ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Forgive me, Lord, but if you believe you and those like you, then all the few Armenians of those times, and ELDERLY old, young, women, and kids were ALWAYS stonecutters and only engaged in running ALL OVER Asia Minor, plus the Black Sea countries with a chisel in their hands and everywhere signed "here was Rapik", "here was Khachik".

    About 10 years ago, the British made a film about the history of Sofia, almost about every stone, but for some reason :) they did not say that the main restorer after the destruction from the earthquake was an Armenian from Ani ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Here, in one of the topics, one of your Natsiks got the nerve and poured crap on Russia, and interfered with the same of its famous politicians. Primakov did not please him, they say, the Khazars, just because you see, he did not make some kind of curtsy towards the Armenians, then something else.

    As I understand it, the interpretation of my messages went ... I did not water Russia ... And its authorities are not Russia, they can do any meanness without blinking, as, for example, they surrendered the Serbs ...
    Well, there is a separate demand from Primakov ... And not for agreeing with Turkey that they will not get involved in the planned war in Chechnya (as I understand, in return, the Russian Federation stops the Armenians of Karabakh, preventing access to the Kur) ... In general -that, it won't hurt to find out ... As I understand it, Rutskoy could not have been the initiator of the stupid start in Chechnya ... But the Khazar Primakov - definitely could, against the Russian ethnos ...
    We didn't need any curtsies from him ... I repeat, I consider him the author of October 27.10.99, 10 ... The fact that Kocharyan will be the first person not only in Karabakh, but also in Armenia - .......... ...... even 10 years before these events ... And, as I understand it, it was he who could write a recommendation for the admission of Kocharyan to the ranks of the Masons, since Kocharyan is a rare scum ... By the way, you rightly noticed that Serge handed over both the security belt, and the machine gun and Karabakh, but XNUMX years before that Robik simply stopped the settlement of the lands liberated from the Turk ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    The fools poisoned by the Nazis do not realize that only a strong Russia can continue to defend Armenia and patronize it, and Primakov and many others with whom your ass-heads are unhappy, did everything to make Russia strong.
    A similar rewriting ...

    Listen, back-headed, you did not answer my question to the local Primakov fans: "Why did Primakov, along with Bakatin (!!!) have to hide during the GKChP days at the dacha of one of the destroyers of the USSR, Volsky?"
    Find and read that article by Konstantin Zatulin, on the entire newspaper page, where he showed then that it was Primakov who was the puppeteer of all the non-Russian politics of your Foreign Ministry ...
    In short, you will have a shit and jump, BUT you will sit on the support exactly, consider it carried over.
    Continue in the same vein as now, I think it will not be difficult to teach you all gratitude "fas!" Azerbaijanis, and instead of talking about the Kura or Araks, you will load on the Black Sea coast in the BDK, there to Adler, and then by railway transport to the Armenian Autonomous Region, next to the Jewish Autonomous Region. You just need to take a pause so that the Persian Turks have time to knock all the nonsense out of you, otherwise in a few centuries you will begin to compose about Great Armenia from the Urals to the ocean and demonstrate your cuneiform in Altai ...

    Your, personally yours and yours like behavior, all these tales, misrepresentation of history, since you have taken all the places of the Jews after several waves of emigration, this is black ingratitude. Your Nazis understood that it would be difficult to get rid of someone else's good - and I repeat once again for the weak-minded, the territory in which we allowed you to create ALL the second national state in your history is our territory, watered with sweat and blood of our soldiers, reclaimed from Persia and was inhabited Persian Turks ("Azerbaijanis"). You were not there, you are not an indigenous people there, we moved you there and gave you the right to live, but keeping your tongue in your anus. If you decided that you can get it from there by relaxing in the Soviet period at the expense of your Natsiks who penetrated the ranks of the Bolsheviks and later into the leadership of the USSR, then now there is no USSR, but Russia. You can read how you were raised in tsarist Russia, it will be even cooler in new Russia.
    I repeat, where we allowed it, you will soon be more in the south than in Transcaucasia, so there is no problem at all to close the project of Caucasian Armenia and put an end to it. And everyone, including those from the south, should be collected and compactly settled within the borders of the AO near the Jewish AO.
    This is if you do not understand the simple thing that if the late Yevgeny Maksimovich had not been squeamish, arrived in Yerevan and took it out of his wide trousers and put his on the table, then all of you would have to consider it happiness to venerate the "holy relics" and in line should stand experiencing uplifting and universal joy at the same time. Do you understand or repeat it again? You were relocated with a condition, you fulfill it, but you want to go to the West, East or somewhere else, just dress up and twist your backside - they collected things and on the way out, it's all plizz in a different place, if you will.

    Well, with the next lies of your land about the assault on the heights by the son of Khachapurov, I no longer want to answer. So much lies that they really began to believe in their own nonsense.
    1. Karenius
      Karenius 9 August 2020 13: 43 New
      +2
      I'm tired of answering a semi-literate ... In this regard, at least Seal was literate ... He's not here for a long time, I would not like to think that he died ... Although, under a different nickname he wrote his anti-Armenian opuses in Yandex - the audience there is much wider ...
      So, sarkazm, remember for the rest of your life: this is our land, the land of our ancestors !!! Here our military drove the Persian army up and down ... Mushegh Mamikonyan did this more than once ... But the nobility - for example, he returned the shah's harem intact and safe - was appreciated: the shah always raised a toast to the white horseman that was painted on his mug ...
      Well, according to history, they contacted the Russians ... after the ordeal with all of Europe ... We contacted, so we contacted, there is a responsibility to the common Motherland ... But Russia can leave here, as it was in the 17th, in the 91st ... All the Armenians of the Russian Federation can be evicted, the Chinese will gladly accept them in Uigur, and we will not listen to your indignation that they have sheltered us and so on ... And yes, even if you say "FAS" to our neighbors, we have options .. Persians, for example ... Personally, I really hope that our authorities are working with the Chinese for mutual military assistance, if the Russians leave here ... And yes. I would like very much that in the lists of the Russian military that work with Armenia, there would not be such Shneersonites ...

      According to Primakov ... Those like him and of a smaller rank will always hide in basements from the rustle of a Russian boot ... When next time this happens in Moscow, I will rush right away :)
  33. Andrey Novoseltsev
    Andrey Novoseltsev Yesterday, 09: 33 New
    0
    Вот видно как турки и азербайджанецы заполонили инет и пропагандируют что Армения не союзник России .а турки и азера это братья русских .вы бараноиды с какой ели упали .ваша вся история до нынешних времён пропитана не только кровью армян .но и русских .российская история умалчивает все это . сколько русских казаков было убито в Турции даже после окончания мировой войны .сколько русских братушек было запрезано на станциях Евлах и Шамхор в Азербайджане 1917-1918 г.погромы по всему Азербайджану 1990г .транзит боевиков оружия и финансов на Северный Кавказ .Россияне опомнитесь вам лапшу вещают а вы им верите .туркоподанные нам не друзья и вы это в скором времени это узнаете