NG-130 for 1,4 thousand rounds: in the West they are working on a steel grade for the barrel of a promising tank gun

Western manufacturers of armored vehicles as one of the areas of work to create tank new generation designate the direction associated with a significant increase in the wear resistance of the barrel of a tank gun. In particular, an example is the development of 130-mm tank guns 51 caliber long from the German Rheinmetall. Recently the modernized Challenger 2 was presented with just such a gun from the German concern.

For the tank gun (NG-130), in particular, a new sub-caliber armor-piercing ammunition with a detachable pallet is used. We are talking about the APFSDS-T projectile with the so-called semi-combustible sleeve. The projectile has an improved longer tungsten core.

Manufacturers note that the new, high-energy, ammunition will affect the life of the barrel of a tank gun. So that the service life of the tank gun is not too short, a special grade of steel is used with a change in the proportion of filler and alloying materials. It is noted that when creating steel, it was possible to reduce the content of sulfur and phosphorus to almost zero, which lead to an increase in fragility. It is believed that for gun steel, the total phosphorus and sulfur content should not exceed 0,05%.

According to some reports, a variant of gun chromium-nickel-molybdenum steel (OHNM) is used, the ratio of the components of which the Western manufacturer, for obvious reasons, does not disclose, nor does it disclose the alloying technology used. It is noted that the steel used is resistant to local overheating up to 2000 degrees Celsius. However, different German sources give different figures with a "plus or minus" spread of 200 degrees.

The steel used in the manufacture of the barrel of a tank gun allows to achieve a significant reduction in the influence of the environment when firing a shot. We are talking, for example, about a shot in snowy weather, when uneven cooling of the barrel may occur.

The average resource of such a barrel of the NG-130 cannon is estimated at 1,4 thousand shots. It is noted that the metallurgical industry, working in the interests of the military industry, continues to develop technologies related to the creation of materials suitable for the barrels of promising tank guns.

Comments

[Insurgent]

According to some reports, a variant of gun chromium-nickel-molybdenum steel (OHNM) is used, the ratio of the components of which the Western manufacturer, for obvious reasons, does not disclose, nor does it disclose the alloying technology used. It is noted that the steel used is resistant to local overheating up to 2000 degrees Celsius. However, different German sources give different figures with a "plus or minus" spread of 200 degrees.

The "plus or minus spread" is not surprising, because neither the developer nor the manufacturer, and even more so the military, are not interested in the leak (at least premature) of such information.

The steel used in the manufacture of the barrel of a tank gun allows to achieve a significant reduction in the influence of the environment when firing a shot. We are talking, for example, about a shot in snowy weather, when uneven cooling of the barrel may occur.

Isn't it a barrel casing, and the deformation control system thereof, serves to reduce the effect of temperatures on firing accuracy?

[Observer2014]

Isn't it a barrel casing, and the deformation control system thereof, serves to reduce the effect of temperatures on firing accuracy?

And what does the casing have to do with it? The casing is the barrel casing. It has specific tasks. An article about something else. About the steel grade for the barrel of a promising German gun. What about materials science? Well, it is clear where the casing is. And where is the steel grade
1400 shots. This is serious

[Insurgent]

Quote: Observer 2014 What about materials science?

Well, it is clear where the casing is. And where is the steel grade

For especially "material-like" I suggest again read (quote from the text of the article):

The steel used in the manufacture of the barrel of a tank gun allows to achieve a significant reduction in the influence of the environment when firing a shot. For example, we are talking about a shot in snowy weather, when uneven cooling of the barrel may occur.

.

The author of the article, obviously not aware that in modern tank guns, direct contact with the environment affecting the shooting factors is eliminated by the presence barrel shroudprotecting the trunk directly from the weather?

[Observer2014]

Quote: Insurgent

Quote: Observer 2014 What about materials science?

Well, it is clear where the casing is. And where is the steel grade

For especially "material-like" I suggest again read (quote from the text of the article):

The steel used in the manufacture of the barrel of a tank gun allows to achieve a significant reduction in the influence of the environment when firing a shot. For example, we are talking about a shot in snowy weather, when uneven cooling of the barrel may occur.

.

The author of the article, obviously not aware that in modern tank guns, direct contact with the environment affecting the shooting factors is eliminated by the presence barrel shroudprotecting the trunk directly from the weather?

What's the effect of the weather on the grade of steel? And what does the author of the article have to do with it? We are discussing the brand for a promising tank gun. We will call to discuss the "casings".

[Thrifty]

Instrugent is what you called the injector of a tank gun - "barrel casing" ???

[Insurgent]

Quote: Thrifty

Instrugent is what you called the injector of a tank gun - "barrel casing" ???

Study the materiel and do not juggle concepts.

The first is not "injector"some, ah Ejector barrel - a device for blowing the barrel of an artillery gun from powder gases, which serves to reduce the gas contamination of the fighting compartments of tanks, self-propelled guns and ship turret artillery installations.

Second - for example, the T-55 tank had ejector trunk but didn't have it casing, that is, he was "naked" ...

And only in the modernization of the T-55 to the T-55MV version, carried out in 1985, did he receive it, among other things (highlighted in the text) :

- mounted reactive armor, rubber-fabric onboard anti-cumulative screens, 1K116-1 "Bastion" guided weapon system, V-55U engine, 620 hp. with., a new fire control system "Volna" (laser rangefinder KTD-2, ballistic computer BV-62, sight TShSM-32PV and stabilizer "Cyclone" M1), heat shield on the gun barrel, a system for launching smoke grenades 902B "Tucha" and a system of protection against napalm "Soda". Some of the vehicles were equipped with a DShKM anti-aircraft machine gun. The undercarriage was modernized, caterpillar tracks of the GMSh with increased lugs were installed. The tank was equipped with the R-173 radio station and the R-173P radio receiver.

[fider]

They'll have to put all the wrenches on the trunks.

[Insurgent]

Quote: fider

They'll have to put all the wrenches on the trunks.

During WWII (for us the Second World War), the Germans, due to the total shortage of alloying additives for the manufacture of armored steels, seized in huge quantities, in the countries of Europe enslaved by them, coins containing nickel and chromium ...

[Observer2014]

Quote: Insurgent

Quote: fider

They'll have to put all the wrenches on the trunks.

During WWII (for us the Second World War), the Germans, due to the total shortage of alloying additives for the manufacture of armored steels, seized in huge quantities, in the countries of Europe enslaved by them, coins containing nickel and chromium ...

Why scattered abbreviations? WWII, WWII? What and why attacked a person's opinion?

[Insurgent]

Quote: Observer2014

Why scattered abbreviations? WWII, WWII? What and why attacked a person's opinion?

For you, these are abbreviations, but for me, only common abbreviations of the name of a historical event to facilitate writing a comment.

And where is the attack on the man ? ?

Why such questions ? Does it flood?

[Mountain shooter]

It's not steel - it's a miracle. Have you forgotten the chrome plating of the barrel? And how they chrome the inside of a pipe almost 7 meters long. Well, clearly not electroplating.

[Ilshat]

Почему нет?
Ours cope ...

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Ilshat

Почему нет?
Ours cope ...

Electroplated coatings are quite porous and the adhesion is not very good. Vacuum ion-plasma coatings - perspective. This is how Americans cover the barrels of guns.

[Ilshat]

In principle, I agree.
But the coating in the barrel is thick ...
How long does the process technology last for the Americans, do not know?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Ilshat

How long does the process technology last for the Americans, do not know?

I know. 10-12 hours, and set up with a three-story house (the trunk is upright) ... Tantalum sprayed. 200 μm approx.

[Ilshat]

Cool ...
I didn't know about tantalum at all.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Ilshat

I didn't know about tantalum at all.

With chrome they failed although they tried.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Materials science is like music - there is a limited amount of materials both there and there (seven notes or several tens of metals), but people manage to invent new music and new alloys.
If the news is not an advertising blowout, then this weapon deserves respect.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

If the news is not an advertising blowout, then this weapon deserves respect.

The Germans have always been famous for their chemists and metallurgists. By the way, they were the first to introduce ion-plasma nitriding of the inner surface of artillery barrels. Even during the Second World War. In a vacuum, naturally. Before ordering, the strictly classified technology was "destroyed", down to the last piece of paper. The theme began to revive only in the 50s, and it was long and difficult.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Yes, I don’t argue. Although their theory of an increased sulfur content in metal for small arms during WWII, it seemed controversial for our materials scientists.

[Volodin]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

If the news is not an advertising blowout

"Advertising release" of what? Chromium and molybdenum? ..

[The leader of the Redskins]

Not. About a resource of 1400 shots. It's a lot. A lot for this caliber.
125 mm 2a46 - only 600.

[Ilshat]

The chrome ones have more.
It's not a fact that the above shots and they and we have the same thing ...

[Split]

Most likely information for land mines and cumulatives. They only need speed for direct range. But for scrap you need speed and pressure in the barrel there is an "order" higher (well, not order, but essential)
ZY As for land mines, I have not heard for the cannon standing now, but there is definitely a cumulative fragmentation bomb there, felts dm12, felts 13 ... I don’t remember exactly

[Ilshat]

Interesting, but little data.

[APASUS]

And the cost of switching to this 130 mm caliber will not be too high, because the weight of the gun in place by recoil devices is more than 3 tons, the tank will again crawl up the mass, and this has already been passed

[Insurgent]

Quote: APASUS

And the cost of switching to this 130 mm caliber will not be too high, because the weight of the gun in place by recoil devices is more than 3 tons, the tank will again crawl up the mass, and this has already been passed

Yes, the mass of German guns of the WWII period, with other excellent characteristics, is an irrefutable fact.

[lucul]

Yes, the mass of German guns of the WWII period, with other excellent characteristics, is an irrefutable fact.

Well, the huge price tag for this pleasure is also an irrefutable fact.

[svp67]

Quote: APASUS

And the cost of switching to this 130 mm caliber will not be too high.

Yes, it looks like it is no longer "gold", "platinum" will be 1 shots per barrel, and considering what kind of main ammunition they shoot, this is a HUGE figure ...

[lucul]

Yes, it looks like it is no longer "gold", "platinum" will be 1,4 rounds per barrel, and considering what kind of main ammunition they shoot, this is a HUGE figure.

Uh-huh, it only remains for the tank to survive all these 1400 shots.

[svp67]

Quote: lucul

Uh-huh, it only remains for the tank to survive all these 1400 shots.

Yes, in peacetime, what will hinder him greatly?

[DrEng527]

Quote: lucul

Uh-huh, it only remains for the tank to survive all these 1400 shots.

isn't it easier to switch to a liner with this caliber?

[Operator]

Euro-Americans once failed
http://otvaga2004.ru/tanki/istoriya-sozdaniya/120-mm-mcs/

And African Americans can't handle it

[DrEng527]

thanks for the link, curious! but about lining there is no ... and the wound composite barrel is a whim ... for 100 kg of mass such problems

[il-z]

So they will write in the instructions: "If the tank is damaged and it is impossible to send it for repair, first of all, remove the gun and take it with you."

[Grazdanin]

There is no information about the transition to this weapon. There is an experienced tank. A tank with 140 mm appeared in the 80s. I don't think there will be a massive rearmament in the coming years, it makes no sense. Most Britain they still have a gun of the "wrong system".

[K-50]

The steel used in the manufacture of the barrel of a tank gun allows to achieve a significant reduction in the influence of the environment when firing a shot. We are talking, for example, about a shot in snowy weather, when uneven cooling of the barrel may occur.

For this, the barrel casing is used, and not "playing" with its chemical. composition.

[svp67]

Quote: K-50

For this, the barrel casing is used, and not "playing" with its chemical. composition.

With such a caliber and length, the "casing" will certainly help in some way, but its weight must be kept somehow to keep the straightness ... so that steel comes out on top, especially with such a declared number of shots

[Ilshat]

Maybe they did something invar-like and therefore leads away less ...
Or a broken phone, anyone's guess.

[Free wind]

How the barrel can withstand 2000 degrees if the melting point of the steel is about 1500 degrees. Already at 1000, the trunk should hang like, well, let's say like an elephant's trunk, and alloying additives will slightly increase the melting temperature, by one hundred degrees, but not to Titanium with Tungsten. Somehow they dealt with this before, and with larger calibers. In principle, external cooling can also be used, in the winter you can dip the trunk into the snow, splash water in the summer, enter the cooling team into the command, "Hans, kel man," that from German to Russian, come here, go cool, according to the order, " all Hans from manda kel "Come from here. By the nature of the alloying additives, the tool can also be stainless. When you look at this fluff somewhere, check it with a magnet.

[Simargl]

Quote: Free Wind

enter the cooling team

Well, the loader was removed. Now there will be a cooling one.

[Operator]

The 51-caliber barrel of the 130-mm cannon - i.e. the Germans were forced to compromise on the relative effectiveness of the gun compared to the 55-caliber barrel of the 120-mm gun. For comparison - the Soviet 152-mm tank gun 2A83 had a barrel length of 47 calibers.

The dead end of active artillery, however - further only active-reactive.

[5-9]

The accuracy of the 55-gauge Rh.120 is lower than that of the 44-gauge. The Germans switched to it because they could not even enter the M829A2 projectile ... the Americans use 44 caliber and are not going to change it.

[Klingon]

Quote: Grazdanin

There is no information about the transition to this weapon. There is an experienced tank. A tank with 140 mm appeared in the 80s. I don't think there will be a massive rearmament in the coming years, it makes no sense. Most Britain they still have a gun of the "wrong system".

why Britain? the fact that the cannon was pushed into the challenger (having thoroughly altered the tower by the way) is a publicity stunt to show that like "we can, in principle, put on any tank." And the cannon will definitely have AZ, because manually rolling 30kg shells is such a pleasure, especially when driving a tank.

[Grazdanin]

AZ is already in the tank, there is infa in the description of the video about this. https://youtu.be/J8Sa_q-Lz6g
Why Britain?
- They have now launched a competition for the modernization of tanks
- a small number of tanks in service (227 pieces of the military balance writes), it will not be so expensive in total.
- the cannon on them is rifled, with shells of "controversial" armor penetration, clearly not sufficient to penetrate the latest modifications of our Tanks.
They still need to spend, and by putting 130 mm they will put the gun up-to-date for the next few decades. Rheinmetal 120 mm is approaching its maximum, but it does not lose its relevance, as long as there are no challenges with which it cannot cope, there is no sense in changing them.

[5-9]

165 are in their ranks ... The smaller the series, the more expensive is 1 unit. Britain will no longer make tanks. The German-French project was not invited and the islanders have nothing to offer for it ... A new cannon with a turret seems to be the best option for them ...

[Grazdanin]

Quote: 5-9

A new gun with a turret seems to be the best option for them.

I think so. Rheinmetall and BAE Systems have a joint venture, through which they are upgrading. They may start offering a modernization option for a leopard for export.

[113262a]

Not swords beads-man tank only seen in the picture! And to distinguish a receiver from a thermo-housing is a Newton binomial! The text of the article is clearly crap! So, only SNOW bends the trunk, but the wind, mud from under the goose and rain do not bend?

[Ilshat]

Oh, so if not always, then often ...
Okay, at least some infa, there is even a number ...

[Operator]

The Germans just implemented Russian patent RU 2055098 with priority from 1994 (applicant - Tulamashzavod) on applying to the surface of the bore of a tank gun (made of chromium-molybdenum steel) a finishing oxymolybdenum coating (3 microns thick) over a hard carbonitride coating (15 microns thick) with the purpose of protecting the latter from hydrolytic destruction when fired.

The West begins to lag behind, not childishly in almost all areas of the military-industrial complex

[Ilshat]

Is there a link?

[Operator]

https://yandex.ru/patents/doc/RU2055098C1_19960227

[Ilshat]

I'm talking about the link that the Germans use

[Operator]

And what else could the rogue Teutons and Britons (who practically liquidated their tank troops) use?

[Ilshat]

Galvanic chromium, ion-plasma deposition of tantalum, carbonitriding in cyanides or cyanates, you never know ...
I thought you were really aware of something ...

[Operator]

You actually read the Tula patent: the carbonitride coating in the barrel under the influence of pressure / temperature of several thousand atmospheres / degrees is hydrolyzed and destroyed at a terrible rate.

Chromium coating has been used since the time of the Tsar Pea, but it is not able to provide a resource of 1400 rounds due to its porosity - flaking.

With a tantalum coating, any country will be without pants

[Ilshat]

Of course I did!
And nothing in it indicates that this is the only way to achieve a large resource.
And even what is generally achieved - the coating is thin.

About tantalum above, read the message from "Mountain Shooter"

[Operator]

There are heaps of molybdenum in Tula - that's why they patent all nonsense in order to somehow attach it, obviously

Mountain shooter is strength

[Operator]

2019 year
http://www.strongtantalum.com/how-is-tantalum-used-in-the-military-industry/

"The cylindrical magnetron sputtering tantalum technology was proposed by Benet Laboratories of the United States army for the dimension characteristics of the gun barrel; Also, the trial production of cylindrical magnetron sputtering deposition technology platform for 120mm, 155mm and 105mm sputtering full-length large- caliber gun tubes were built in Waterfleet Arsenal, which was used for the magnetron sputtering full-bore tantalum plating for Abrams, Crusader, and future combat systems ", - keyword trial (experienced).

In the process of magnetron deposition of tantalum on steel, a brittle intermetallic compound of iron with tantalum was formed, and the experiment was stopped.

[Ilshat]

Ну и что?
Marriage...
The technology has not been worked out, the most common thing.
Didn't you have to deal with the marriage?

"Investigation of the mechanical properties of protective refractory coatings applied by the method of ion-plasma vacuum magnetron sputtering": https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/issledovanie-mehanicheskih-svoystv-zaschitnyh-tugoplavkih-pokrytiy-nanesennyh-metoplus vakuumnogo-magnetronnogo / viewer

2014, all in Russian.

[Operator]

The mountain shooter reported misinformation that the Americans are already serially covering the trunks of Abrams with tantalum

As for the article in NSTU in 2014, it contradicts the article in the American journal of 2019, which directly speaks about the formation of brittle iron-tantalum intermetals (which is fully confirmed by the refusal of the Americans to introduce the results of their experiments into production).

[Ilshat]

I'm sorry - did you work in production?
The Americans overheated the barrel and that's it!
The fact that the articles contradict each other does not mean at all that the reported results are not reliable - in one case, intermetallic compounds were formed, and in the other not!
So what?

[Operator]

The residents of Nizhny Novgorod made a mistake with the technique of their experiment - they began to measure the strength of the tantalum layer immediately after its application, but it was necessary first to fire several shots, as a result of which, under the influence of pressure (> 3 thousand atmospheres) and temperature (> 2 thousand degrees) at the tantalum-iron border a brittle intermetallic compound is formed.

[Vadim237]

They have their own barrel processing and spraying technology.

[Operator]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

125 mm 2a46 - total 600

When firing old sabot projectiles with bolts for centering an aluminum pan in the barrel, the bolt heads scratched the barrel bore not childishly. When firing new projectiles with a composite pallet without bolts, the barrel resource is about 900 rounds.

[viktor_ui]

So I thought that a composite shirt was needed to eject ammunition from the CAvern of the barrel (with a life cycle in its length ... and the strength of the barrel is needed to withstand a given pressure ... well, the composite minimizes friction. Teflon was invented in the forties by the Germans .. .something like this hour to come up with for the trunk of the intestine is thin for some?

[Operator]

As soon as the domestic chemical industry mastered thermostable polymers, the munitions immediately replaced aluminum with composite in the construction of Russian BOPS pallets.

Teflon will not work - it works at low speeds, and the BOPS in the barrel accelerates to 1800 m / s. Graphite fiber is just that.

[Drugov]

The survivability of the tank in modern combat conditions is unlikely to allow him to make a tenth of the shots, so isn't it easier to think over a replaceable barrel, and not invent a bicycle?

[viktor_ui]

dear Drugov ... and if you look more broadly at the problems of the barrel resource - well, you need this resource to get confident firing skills at targets on the director by the CREW ... and no one will whine and save on this in terms of fatal resource limitation.

[Drugov]

Dear Victor, I'm just trying to look wider and wider)), namely, I'm trying to take into account the fact that modern technologies allow, firstly, to use simulator technologies in training crews, and secondly, smart projectile technologies. In the 21st century, it is necessary to use the derivatives of technical progress, and not disregard the non-rubber budget.

[Vadim237]

In the future, new active defense systems will be massively introduced in the west, so that the survival rate of new tanks will be quite high, and they are working on new reactive armor both in France, in Germany and Great Britain, and in the United States. RPG 7 with the entire line of shots and SPG 9, the latest tank modifications will no longer break through.

[Drugov]

First, an ammunition appears that strikes a unit of weapons, and only then they look for a means to protect against this ammunition, or how it PROBABLY will be in the future a COMPLEX of defeat. But the conversation is about something else, about the survivability of the barrel of the gun and its ability to produce a LARGE number of shots. My opinion (I am not claiming that it is the only correct one at any time) is that the barrel of the gun would be easily and quickly replaceable and would not have an exorbitant value, as it may be subject to other mechanical damage. And the accumulation of driving and training experience by the crew was expressed not only in the practical operation of the car, but also combined with modern training simulators.

[AML]

Quote: Vadim237

In the future, new active defense systems will be massively introduced in the west, so that the survival rate of new tanks will be quite high, and they are working on new reactive armor both in France, in Germany and Great Britain, and in the United States. RPG 7 with the entire line of shots and SPG 9, the latest tank modifications will no longer break through.

We are waiting for the ammunition flying into the barrel. Probably today it is quite realizable.