Military Review

On the presidential press secretary, income of 15, demography and people's welfare

378

I have long been accustomed to the fact that the leadership of the Russian Federation lives in some kind of special world, where we go from victory to victory, where the overwhelming majority of the population votes for United Russia, and where the people's well-being grows by leaps and bounds from year to year. But it is interesting to observe when someone from our establishment suddenly accidentally collides with objective reality.


It all started with the fact that a survey commissioned by the IC "Rosgosstrakh Life" showed that the number of citizens of the Russian Federation forced to live on 15 rubles. and less, it grows. By the way, you should make a reservation right away: we are not talking about wages, but about income per family member. That is, if a certain husband gets his hands on, that is, minus taxes, 000 thousand rubles, his wife - 25 thousand rubles, they have no part-time jobs or other sources of income, but they have one small and therefore nowhere working child , then the income of this family is 20 rubles. per person per month.


The result, frankly speaking, is somehow inconvenient, does not correspond to the historical moment and is generally ideologically wrong. It is not surprising that the press secretary of our president Dmitry Peskov responded to this challenge as follows:

“I would answer carefully here. We do not know the calculation methodology or other criteria. The sample is far from the largest. It can be said unambiguously that it is incorrect to draw conclusions at the federal level on the basis of such a sample "

And, of course, the spokesman added that the problem of poverty is a priority in the activities of both the president and the government. He added that the elimination of poverty is "what practically all development programs are aimed at."

On the one hand, it seems to be true, in the course of the survey, only about one and a half thousand of our fellow citizens phoned. But let's still "see", as they say in Odessa.

About our income


Let's start with the average wage. Under Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, she grew by leaps and bounds. In 2000, the average salary in the Russian Federation was 2 rubles, but in 223 it was already 2019 rubles!

But let's bring the average wage in the Russian Federation by years from 2000 to 2019 to the base year 2000, using the official inflation data. After all, everyone understands that wages are growing from year to year, and only inflation is on the rise. And by introducing the appropriate amendments, we will get an increase in wages on a comparable scale, that is, in rubles of purchasing power in 2000. And, which is characteristic, the picture turns out well, very blissful.


Everything would be fine, but I have no faith in the official statistics on inflation. The temptation is too great to play a little with her, achieving beautiful results. How is that? For example, the country produced all kinds of products and services during the year so that their cost turned out to be 5% more than in the previous year. Sounds great, but what if inflation was 7% over the same period? Then it turns out that we produced something 2% less than last year, just the prices for everything went up.

And if you twist it a little and announce that inflation was not 7%, but only 3%? Well, then the picture changes dramatically: inflation is relatively low, and some kind of growth in production (by 2%) has appeared. With such figures it is not a sin to go to the report Himself.

I will not accuse anyone of Rosstat, because I did not catch them by the hand. But then you go into the store, you look at the prices, you remember the official statistics, and something does not want to converge with a credit, even cry. So, dear readers, if any of you believe in the official inflation data, then you may not read this article further. Congratulate yourself on what a wonderful country you live in, admire your well-being, which is tirelessly striving upward, despite all the hardships of crises and pandemics, and that's fine. I'll continue for everyone else.

Inflation is understandable, but what if we recalculate our average salary in dollars? Just don't scribble angry philippics on the topic that, they say, we buy goods not for dollars, but for rubles. You'd better tell me which Russian company produced the components for the computer or laptop from which you print it? The huge masses of household appliances and vehicles sold in Russia are imported. Clothing? It happens domestically, I admit it. But there is a lot of Chinese, and even when we sew ourselves, it is often from imported materials. And on imported sewing equipment. Food? And everything is not great here. Here, take the same meat: it seems like a domestic product, but only the food of pigs there or gobies is quite often imported. And in domestic fast food, this very meat will be fried in palm oil with pleasure. But palm trees, as you know, are not so completely domestic plant. Or take milk: advanced farms buy dairy cows in the West in order to increase milk yield, despite the fact that these milk yields are carried out by imported machine milking installations, and the resulting milk is also poured into packages for you with imported equipment. Saplings, seeds: again, tens of percent of the total stock are bought abroad. And so everywhere, what do not touch: it seems to be ours, but it seems to be not quite ...

But, generally speaking, the dynamics of our average wages in dollars is not too disappointing either.


Steady growth until 2008 is evident, and then - yes, the crisis knocked down, but then they started to grow again, and if it were not for the Ukrainian coup, the return of Crimea, sanctions and the crisis that followed, everything would have been absolutely great. But even without that, we have already surpassed the 2008 indicators!

However ... there is a nuance. The dollar is also subject to inflation. That is, one dollar in 2008 could buy, unlike a dollar in 2019, and if we recalculate the purchasing value of our wages, taking into account dollar inflation, then a slightly different picture is obtained.


That is, the 2008 crisis did not kill us, in a year we got up from our knees, shook ourselves off and went further up the hill. But the second hit already seriously: during 2014-2016. rolled back to the level of 2006 and then only slow growth began, culminating in the fact that in 2019 they finally returned to the level of the crisis, disastrous 2009.

So we can safely say that the real incomes of citizens of the Russian Federation in the period 2008-2019. set a course for reduction. In 2008, they amounted to $ 575,40 of the "2000 model", and then, although at the peak they reached as much as $ 698,25, they immediately sank to $ 394,64, and only last year some - how they reached $ 500,66

Here, probably, some of the readers will remind that the average salary figures are pretty fake, because there is tax evasion by employers. And the salary is paid in gray envelopes, without fixing anywhere, which is why the real average salary is still higher than the official one. That is, that is, about gray envelopes - the true truth, but we also have another problem - called "self-employed". We have such a category of citizens, whose number was estimated by the same Sberbank at 15 million people, but there were also much larger estimates. Certainly, some of them are talented programmers, lawyers, designers and people of other professions who are tired of working for their uncle and make excellent money themselves. And they make good money, by the way. Yes, only the majority of the “self-employed” are completely different people who would be happy to work, but nowhere, but you don’t want to go to bed in accordance with the behests of A. B. Chubais, so whoever can interrupt. But they do not participate in the statistics of the average salary, since they do not declare their income, and if we take them into account, then, most likely, the average salary in the Russian Federation, even taking into account its “gray” part, will not only not grow - it will sink down ...

Of course, not a single salary ... People have other sources of income. From entrepreneurial activity, from renting out property, etc. etc. But you need to understand that among people with a salary of 15-45 thousand rubles. such incomes have, how to say, "not only everything." Well, they don't pay them multimillion-dollar annual bonuses, and, as a rule, there is not enough money to buy an apartment and rent it out: here we ourselves would have a place to live.

Well, here's the real income of the population in 2014-2015. gone at the peak. But then the publications of our "gurus from economics" came on the scene, sincerely confident that the HSE diploma replaces not only experience in industry and agriculture, but also common sense. The general message was this: we were too "stuck", so that wage funds became too heavy for enterprises. But now salaries have been reduced, our industry has gained a competitive advantage, and then there is also the import substitution program proclaimed from the Highest Tribune, and now we will step into a bright capitalist future ... Well, since 2014, 6 years have passed. Have you stepped?

About the poor


But the number of the poor in our country, according to the Federal State Statistics Service, has decreased. In 2008 there were 19 million of them, and in 2019 - already only 18,1 million! But who is a poor man in our country? This is a person with incomes below the subsistence level. Which at the end of 2019 was already 10 609 rubles. per capita (for working people - 11 rubles). If you have more - yes you are ... well, not a millionaire, of course, but the middle class - for sure.

Okay, be that as it may, but is there a reduction in the number of poor people? There is. Is this a success? Yes, success - unless you pay attention to the fact that the decline in the poor is almost within the margin of error. Well, if, of course, do not take into account the fact that in 2008 the subsistence minimum was estimated at 4 rubles, that is, at 693 dollars at the rate of 188,7, and in 2008 at the current rate it was only $ 2019. This is even without conversion to the dollar inflation rate. In general, they reduced the cost of living by 163,88% in dollar terms - we got a decrease in the number of the poor by 13,2% ... But what can you say to the fact that an attempt to live at this very cost of living even for one month is simply dangerous to health (MP Saratov region Bondarenko tried, for which honor and praise, but the verdict of the doctors was harsh)? Well, excuse me, you didn't fit into the market? Check out! The Ministry of Labor will help: in the 4,7st quarter of 1, they proposed to lower the cost of living. This is how soon the number of the poor in our country will decrease!

Let's just say, with such "successes" for a decade, I would be ashamed to declare to the whole country that "the problem of poverty is a priority in the activities of both the president and the government." Maybe that's why I'm not a press secretary.

On income of 15 thousand rubles.


But let's return to the income of 15 rubles, which embarrassed D. Peskov. There is such a thing - median wages. Its meaning is this: half of the country's working population receives a salary above the median value, and half - below. So, the median salary in the Russian Federation calculated in April 000 was 2019 rubles.

Now we do a little calculation. With a salary of 34 rubles, a person, net of income tax, will receive 335 rubles. The figure is actually crafty: when calculating, Rosstat did not take small and micro-enterprises, limiting itself only to medium and large businesses, so in fact the median salary is even lower. But nevertheless, if we take the officialdom, it turns out that the budget of the family, where both husband and wife work and receive a median salary, will amount to about 29 thousand rubles.

Now let's remember such a thing as demography. In order for the population to grow, 2,15 children need to be born per woman. Just because, unfortunately, life is harsh, not all children reach adulthood, and of those who have achieved, not everyone is given to have children, etc. But let's not torment ourselves with tenths of a child: let's assume that in order to somehow make demographic ends meet, we need to have two children per family.


The problem is that if the above-mentioned family with its median salary still has two children, then its income per family member will be 14 rubles. And from this follows a simple, elementary conclusion: if half of the working residents of the Russian Federation (in fact, this number is more, but we take the official statistics) fulfill their "demographic duty", then they will have to live on less than 935,73 rubles. per month per person. And for this you do not need to know the “sampling”, the “calculation methodology” that D. Peskov spoke about - everything is in the official statistics!

In 2019, the Levada Center conducted a survey of our fellow citizens on the topic of the real cost of living, and according to its results, a figure of 21 thousand rubles was named. per person for the country as a whole. In the author's opinion, this figure is very close to the truth, given that it is average: that is, in a number of northern regions it will naturally be much higher due to high heating costs, food prices, etc. the middle part of Russia - below. But even a family that receives a median salary, having just one child, will fall below this level - in this case, the income per family member will be only 19 rubles. per person. And half of the population of the Russian Federation will have even less!

In other words, in our current economic situation, for at least half of the residents of the Russian Federation, even one child in a family is a luxury. It is clear that it is difficult to go against nature, and people still give birth (God will help them and all prosperity!), But the result of this is life on the verge, or even beyond the verge of poverty - at least as long as the child itself will not start earning.

Of course, everything seems to be not so bad on the average in the hospital: the average salary in 2019 was 47 rubles, so the average family of two working adults and two children, after deducting all taxes, will have an average per capita income of 867 , 20 rubles. per person. But the problem is that these incomes are very differentiated, as shown by the median. That is, we have a number of very high-paid people, and a large number of low-paid people. And the highly paid, which is not surprising at all, prefer to spend money on "carriages, races, parties, voyages", as Vysotsky sang in his time, but by no means on solving demographic problems. For example, in our country more than 822,15 thousand people have a salary of 11 rubles. and higher. Someone seriously thinks that each such person brings up fifty children or more?

And further. Very often, when discussing the problem of low wages in the Russian Federation, it is said: "Do not complain, but go to the place where they pay more and earn!" So, this, of course, is the right approach, because a person is himself the blacksmith of his own happiness. But you need to understand: in the country in 2019, only 12% of the population had a salary of 75 rubles. and more. That is, while earning, say, 000 rubles, of course, you can try and start earning 20 rubles, but the number of jobs, alas, will not change from this - in the economy, as there were 000% of jobs with a salary of 100 thousand . rub. and higher will remain so. In other words, after learning, gaining experience, etc. etc., you can improve your position, but it will be your personal success, and nothing more. Because you get a relatively high-paying job and someone else won't get it.

You can, of course, say: “Create jobs yourself!”, And this is also an excellent recipe for success. But again - only your own. The problem is that the purchasing power of the population as a whole will not change from this. If, say, you open your hairdressing salon at the most attractive price-quality ratio, then, of course, clients will come to you. People will have their hair cut, you will earn money and become richer. But this will only mean that someone has lost the customers who are now coming to you, and now they will earn less. That is, your personal efforts can slightly redistribute the cash flows existing in the country in your favor, but cannot increase them. Simply put, if a person has 300 rubles that he wants to spend on watching a movie in a cinema, then exactly 300 rubles. he will spend, no matter how many cinemas in his area.

And further. Very often today, the rate of motorization of the Russian Federation is demonstrated as an increase in the well-being of citizens. How many times have I already read in articles and comments the opinion of vigilant comrades: they say, everyone complains that money is bad, and cars are forced to all yards, neither walk nor cross the road. Before and close this was not!


And indeed: if in the same 2000 there were about 1000 passenger cars per 132 inhabitants of the Russian Federation, then already in 2016 more than twice as many - 285. We got stuck as it is, dear fellow citizens!

It is only strange that these same comrades do not tell us how you and I lived beautifully in the 90s of the last century and what a gigantic increase in prosperity fell upon us then. What? Was there no growth in the "wild 90s"? Was the economy at its peak? Was it all falling apart and falling into poverty? Well, excuse me, but the number of cars per capita grew at a gigantic pace: in 1993 there were only 75,7 cars per thousand people, in 2000, as mentioned above, 132, respectively, from 1993 to 2000. the indicator increased by almost 1,75 times.

How so? Everything is very simple. Once upon a time, a car was a luxury item, but today, with the growth of technology, it has become much cheaper than other goods and therefore has become much more affordable. So, in 1988 "Moskvich" cost about 45 average wages. Today, a mediocre car for 750 thousand rubles. costs less than 18 average salaries (on hand). That is, it was not we who began to receive more, it was cars that began to cost less, hence the growth in their number with us.

The conclusion is very simple. The current economic system still justified itself in 2000-2008, but today it is, in principle, unable to ensure not only an increase, but even a simple reproduction of the population of the Russian Federation. Which, by the way, is “brilliantly” confirmed by our indicators of natural population growth: in the period from 2000 to 2019, the decline (or, as it is now fashionable to say, negative growth) of the population due to the excess of mortality over birth rate amounted to over 8 thousand. people

Of course, high incomes by themselves do not guarantee a high birth rate, which we can see in a number of developed capitalist countries. But still, one cannot count on an improvement in the demographic situation in conditions when at least half of the population, in order not to slip into poverty, should have no more than one child in a family or have no children at all.

Please tell someone about this to the President's Press Secretary D. Peskov. He must learn at least a little about the country in which he lives.
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  1. Svarog
    Svarog 30 July 2020 10: 08 New
    72
    And, of course, the spokesman added that the problem of poverty is a priority in the activities of both the president and the government.

    They have had this priority for 20 years already .. but no result. But there is no result, you need to retire.
    But the number of the poor in our country, according to the Federal State Statistics Service, has decreased. In 2008 there were 19 million of them, and in 2019 - already only 18,1 million! H

    And how much was the population decline during this time?
    The conclusion is very simple. The current economic system still justified itself in 2000-2008,

    The conclusion is even simpler, oil was expensive, it seemed that life was getting better .. As it fell, it became clear that they had not done anything for 20 years ..
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 30 July 2020 10: 12 New
      21
      Rosgosstrakh whispered - FEAR!
      But the USY said - Do not shy! ...
      1. mdsr
        mdsr 30 July 2020 10: 46 New
        60
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Rosgosstrakh whispered - FEAR!
        But the USY said - Do not shy! ...

        The very first thing that the authorities will do is work with all sorts of insurance companies and banks so that they do not spoil official statistics with their data.
        Many thanks to Andrey from Chelyabinsk for a brilliant analysis of the topic. good Such detailed articles with objective calculations and graphs are sorely lacking not only in VO, but in Russia as a whole. After bringing such calculations, by and large, it is difficult to present counterarguments. This means that there will be less srach in the comments. We will wait for new articles from you on a social topic.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 30 July 2020 10: 58 New
          37
          Quote: mdsr
          After bringing such calculations, by and large, it is difficult to present counterarguments. This means that there will be less srach in the comments.

          The clamps will still yap, and if the mind is not enough not to fit, then the minuses will weave.
          they are children laughing
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 30 July 2020 11: 13 New
          35
          Quote: mdsr
          This means that there will be less srach in the comments

          It is difficult to argue with the numbers, so they will begin to discuss the personality of Andrey.
          The salary must be worked out, in the trolley-mound they just don't pay the same. bully
          1. Arlen
            Arlen 30 July 2020 11: 19 New
            38
            Hello Igor hi
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            The salary must be worked out, in the trolley-mound they just don't pay the same.

            There are a lot of rumors around the "Troll Factory" on the Internet. They even say that the head office of these trolls is in St. Petersburg. wassat bully
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 30 July 2020 11: 26 New
              15
              Hello! hi Yes, my friend went there on an excursion while visiting St. Petersburg. Only they were not allowed inside.
              1. Arlen
                Arlen 30 July 2020 11: 31 New
                34
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Yes, my friend went there on an excursion while visiting St. Petersburg. Only they were not allowed inside.

                "Fabrika" is still a closed company, you just don't let it go there laughing
                An article on this topic was on the Internet under the title "How everything works: the" kremlebot "frankly told how much they are paid for customized reviews, how long the shift lasts and what they are fined for"
                https://yandex.ru/turbo/s/gubdaily.ru/sociology/lichnyj-opyt/kak-vse-ustroeno-kremleboty-otkrovenno-rasskazali-skolko-im-platyat-za-zakaznye-otzyvy-skolko-dlitsya-smena-i-za-chto-shtrafuyut/
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Lannan Shi
          Lannan Shi 30 July 2020 11: 27 New
          61
          Quote: mdsr
          The very first thing that the authorities will do is work with all sorts of insurance companies and banks so that they do not spoil official statistics with their data.

          If you are not too lazy to delve into the official statistics, Rosstat, and you know how to analyze at least a little ... And there are sooooo many interesting things to be dug out.
          Well, for example, the average salary of 47 thousand in the country. And now we take the official figure of the collected personal income tax - 3.6 trillion. Personal income tax, as we know, is 13% of the salary. This means that the total salary accrued across the country is 27692 billion. We have 71,5 million employees. We receive 387,3 thousand rubles a year, or 32.275 rubles a month. As if not very similar to the official 47.000. True?
          The same calculations, but made from the amounts collected in the Pension Fund, give the figure - 36500 per month. Which is also not very close to 47.000. But the funny thing is? The figures of two quite official offices - the Pension Fund of Russia and the tax office, differ by 10%. And the funniest thing should be exactly the opposite. Tax should show a higher average salary. Since contributions to the PF are not subject to all income, but income is taken from everything. The mess is shorter than the uttermost. The result of twenty years of selection. Selection of the faithful, but not very smart. yes
          But that's not the point. It is obvious that our official bodies overestimate the average income, not even salaries, but income, by 1.3-1.5 times. And in fact, the average salary in the country revolves around 30-35 thousand dirty, or 25-30 clean.
          Something like this. Non-believing Putinists can open the websites of Rosstat, the Pension Fund of Russia, take a calculator, and try to remember how they were taught at school to handle interest. There will be no state department officials, no intrigues of terrorists. Throughout the official data collected even under the prohibitively wise Mishustina and mathematician for the 6th grade. Yeah. yes
          1. mdsr
            mdsr 30 July 2020 11: 54 New
            38
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            If you are not too lazy to delve into the official statistics, Rosstat, and you know how to analyze at least a little ... And there are sooooo many interesting things to be dug out.

            Quote: Lannan Shi
            And in fact, the average salary in the country revolves around 30-35 thousand dirty, or 25-30 clean.
            Something like this. Non-believing Putinists can open the websites of Rosstat, the Pension Fund of Russia, take a calculator, and try to remember how they were taught at school to handle interest. There will be no state department officials, no intrigues of terrorists. Throughout the official data collected even under the prohibitively wise Mishustina and mathematician for the 6th grade.

            It seems to me that the authorities will soon classify this data as well. too many people began to doubt the official data of the authorities and find confirmation of this. Data on real estate and property of high government officials and their close relatives have already been classified. In the column of the owner of such property there is simply an inscription: RF. For slaves are not allowed to poke their noses into the affairs of the Lord
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 30 July 2020 13: 46 New
              21
              Quote: mdsr
              It seems to me that the authorities will soon classify this data as well. too many people began to doubt the official data of the authorities and find confirmation of this.

              It remains only to classify it .. by the way, the real estate of all officials has already been classified in Rosreestr .. This is the fight against corruption .. wassat
          2. Machito
            Machito 30 July 2020 12: 23 New
            22
            Quote: Lannan Shi
            Quote: mdsr
            The very first thing that the authorities will do is work with all sorts of insurance companies and banks so that they do not spoil official statistics with their data.

            If you are not too lazy to delve into the official statistics, Rosstat, and you know how to analyze at least a little ... And there are sooooo many interesting things to be dug out.
            Well, for example, the average salary of 47 thousand in the country. And now we take the official figure of the collected personal income tax - 3.6 trillion. Personal income tax, as we know, is 13% of the salary. This means that the total salary accrued across the country is 27692 billion. We have 71,5 million employees. We receive 387,3 thousand rubles a year, or 32.275 rubles a month. As if not very similar to the official 47.000. True?
            The same calculations, but made from the amounts collected in the Pension Fund, give the figure - 36500 per month. Which is also not very close to 47.000. But the funny thing is? The figures of two quite official offices - the Pension Fund of Russia and the tax office, differ by 10%. And the funniest thing should be exactly the opposite. Tax should show a higher average salary. Since contributions to the PF are not subject to all income, but income is taken from everything. The mess is shorter than the uttermost. The result of twenty years of selection. Selection of the faithful, but not very smart. yes
            But that's not the point. It is obvious that our official bodies overestimate the average income, not even salaries, but income, by 1.3-1.5 times. And in fact, the average salary in the country revolves around 30-35 thousand dirty, or 25-30 clean.
            Something like this. Non-believing Putinists can open the websites of Rosstat, the Pension Fund of Russia, take a calculator, and try to remember how they were taught at school to handle interest. There will be no state department officials, no intrigues of terrorists. Throughout the official data collected even under the prohibitively wise Mishustina and mathematician for the 6th grade. Yeah. yes

            Crocodile is not caught, coconut does not grow.
            Serfs do not want to multiply. They say that there is nothing to feed the children. They lie. All the shelves are littered with macaroshki in stores, and there is also quinoa and nettles.
            And from the top they cheerfully report: life has become better, life has become more fun. But not everyone.
            1. Tatar 174
              Tatar 174 31 July 2020 16: 16 New
              0
              Quote: Bearded
              And from the top they cheerfully report: life has become better, life has become more fun. But not everyone.

              In one word: Full KPSS! .. It was, is and will be!
          3. smel
            smel 3 August 2020 15: 45 New
            0
            It would be interesting to dig up information about the money spent in our country, including the depositary amounts spent on the purchase of shares, etc. I am sure that even without data on the export of capital abroad, the salary would still be three times more.
        5. Revival
          Revival 1 August 2020 14: 55 New
          +2
          Well, without shit in the comments! Despite all the evidence.
          When the article appeared, I heard how in the 1st air army of the "defensive" name of Solovyov, the Order of Kisilev, etc. , who are ready with all uncompromising uncompromising attitude to bring down such megaton arguments as, "start with yourself", "you have to work", "stop whining", "stop writing from Ukraine", "how much did the State Department pay you", "bulk", "liberals ".
          It will be a Great Battle !!!
    2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 30 July 2020 10: 19 New
      21
      Quote: Svarog
      They have had this priority for 20 years.

      In the last national goals (until the 30th year) they did not bother with this at all and honestly wrote that they were postponing this "struggle" for 6 years. So, we can say that priority is now officially on the shelf
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 30 July 2020 10: 20 New
        23
        Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
        So we can say the priority is paused

        This one, for sure, the pause will last forever .. Of course, if the oil does not jump, yes $ 100 .. But even in this case, the people will get crumbs ..
        1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
          Boris ⁣ Shaver 30 July 2020 10: 24 New
          +5
          Quote: Svarog
          the pause will last forever ..

          No time to fatten! ))
          1. Grandfather
            Grandfather 30 July 2020 10: 32 New
            33
            On the presidential press secretary, income of 15, demography and people's welfare
            He doesn't have anything, Navka changed all this, and the children themselves ran away for the "hillock", he is not in business ...
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
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        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 30 July 2020 11: 06 New
          18
          Quote: Svarog
          Of course, if the oil doesn't jump, yes, $ 100 .. But even in this case, the people will get crumbs ..

          Once on TV they showed an interview with Vladimir Putin, and they talked about salaries of 1 million rubles a day. It turns out that the oilmen have one. The explanation is that they hire foreign specialists, but they have exactly the same salaries abroad and for less money they do not work. And by the way, about the mentioned salary, the salary of the chief of these specialists is even higher, since the chief should not receive lower than his employees (from interview).
          And on average, in the country, taking into account these salaries, we receive not bad.
          1. Roman123567
            Roman123567 30 July 2020 11: 58 New
            12
            This is exactly about the Sechin ZP and he was asked that time ..
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 30 July 2020 10: 56 New
        12
        Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
        In the last national goals (until the 30th year) they did not bother with this at all and honestly wrote that they were postponing this "struggle" for 6 years. So, we can say that priority is now officially on the shelf

        Will they live to 2030 ?!
      3. Alf
        Alf 30 July 2020 18: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
        So, we can say that the priority is now officially on the shelf

        Together with the teeth.
    3. Varyag71
      Varyag71 30 July 2020 10: 42 New
      21
      Somehow their priority does not fit in connection with the increase in the retirement age, and the dominance of such an abundance of low-quality food on the shelves that it is sometimes scary to go into the store.
      1. Baloo
        Baloo 30 July 2020 10: 56 New
        22
        Quote: Varyag71
        Somehow their priority does not fit in connection with the increase in the retirement age, and the dominance of such an abundance of low-quality food on the shelves that it is sometimes scary to go into the store.

        My dog ​​refuses to eat any sausage. ... He sniffs, and then looks like that ... So much pain and resentment in his eyes! He lowers his head, waves his tail and asks to stroke at least. request
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 30 July 2020 11: 33 New
          16
          Quote: Balu
          My dog ​​refuses to eat any sausage. ... He sniffs, and then looks like that ... So much pain and resentment in his eyes! He lowers his head, waves his tail and asks to stroke at least.

          Coworker, your dog is distracting.although the current products are of course rare crap!
        2. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 30 July 2020 11: 49 New
          15
          Quote: Balu
          My dog ​​refuses to eat any sausage. ... He sniffs, and then looks like that ... So much pain and resentment in his eyes! He lowers his head, waves his tail and asks to stroke at least.

          I bought myself a Chinese cooking mixer, made a smokehouse and make sausages myself. Sausages are obtained as in the USSR. I took a lot of recipes from here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVIAXdcWI1Hd-y2XtN_p2AQ/videos
      2. Victorio
        Victorio 30 July 2020 11: 16 New
        -4
        Quote: Varyag71
        Somehow, their priority does not fit in connection with the increase in the retirement age, and the dominance on the shelves such an abundance of low quality food, that sometimes it's scary to go into the store.

        ===
        and to whom are the claims - the owner, the foreman, the worker of the manufacturer, the shop, the Federal Service for Supervision of Social Protection, representatives of local authorities, voters who voted for this authority? all accomplices
      3. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 11: 22 New
        -29
        In addition to low quality, there is also quite high quality. And in the same store.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 30 July 2020 11: 30 New
          23
          Quote: AS Ivanov.
          And in the same store.

          In Togliatti supermarkets, you can no longer find quality. You start reading the composition, chicken meat is everywhere.
          In a rare case, you can find it according to GOST, but the price tag is horse.
          1. Alf
            Alf 30 July 2020 18: 34 New
            12
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            In a rare case, you can find it according to GOST, but the price tag is horse.

            And how many scandals there were when it turned out that the composition on the label was in accordance with GOST, but in reality half of all E was not completed.
      4. smel
        smel 3 August 2020 15: 39 New
        0
        I call food that you call low-quality food. All stores are filled with this feed. But products for a person in the network hyper .., super .. and other merchants can not be found.
    4. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 30 July 2020 10: 55 New
      37
      Andrey THANKS for the article! +100500.
      Now Putinophiles will raise a howl across the street, made a naunas, negative growth, like a bald-headed snowball, agents of the State Department, if neontokot, all around enemies.
      1. mdsr
        mdsr 30 July 2020 11: 00 New
        36
        Quote: Stroporez
        Now Putinophiles howl will raise a prooneanalagaf, made a naunas, negative growth, like a bald snow, anegtygasdepa, if neontokot, all around enemies.

        No, they won't stick here, tk. under such a detailed and objective article of cheap propaganda with words look out into the yard ... start with yourself ..., there is nothing to catch. Andrey in his brilliant article smeared these cheap tricks on the asphalt with a thin layer good They will just have to silently minus in dog rage laughing
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 30 July 2020 11: 08 New
          28
          Quote: mdsr
          Andrey in his brilliant article smeared these cheap tricks on the asphalt with a thin layer

          I agree, Kamrad! The article is just FIRE for witchers.
          Andrey had wonderful naval articles, but judging by his comments, I thought, well, when will .... And here he is, an analytical MASTERPIECE!
          Of course, Andrei BRAVO!
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 30 July 2020 11: 25 New
            -45
            Article
            Of course, everything seems to be not so bad on the average in the hospital: the average salary in 2019 was 47 rubles, so the average family of two working adults and two children, after deducting all taxes, will have average per capita income RUB 20... per person. But the problem is that these incomes are very differentiated, as shown by the median. That is, we have a number of very high-paid people, and a large number of low-paid people.

            Note that the author himself focuses on the average per capita income of 20 rubles. Also with a note that it could be less !! excellent, we accept.

            back to the article:

            Everything is very simple. Once upon a time, a car was a luxury item, but today, with the growth of technology, it has become much cheaper relative to other goods and therefore it has become much more accessible. So, in 1988 "Moskvich" cost about 45 average wages. Today is a mediocre car for 750 thousand rubles. is cheaper 18 average salaries (on hand) (from me - that is, 18 monthly income covers a car of 750 tr., Or even less !!!). That is, it was not we who began to receive more, it was cars that began to cost less, hence the growth in their number with us.


            Mathematical layouts: 750: 000 months (like average! Wages on hand) = 18 rubles per month you have to pay for an average budget car (all according to the author !!!), obviously without taking into account food, clothes per person, gasoline , wheels, insurance and communal services.

            In connection with this, the question is - where is the author lying?
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              30 July 2020 11: 37 New
              46
              Quote: Nasr
              In connection with this, the question is - where is the author lying?

              The answer is nowhere. And you have to go to teach materiel.
              Quote: Nasr
              Note that the author himself focuses on the average per capita income of 20 rubles.

              Per capita income is per capita income. If you earn 45 thousand on your hands, you have 2 children and your wife is gone, then the income in your family is 15 thousand per person.
              Quote: Nasr
              Today, a mediocre car for 750 thousand rubles. costs less than 18 average salaries (on hand)

              And the average salary is the very 45 thousand that you get from the example above.
              We have an average salary - 47 867 with taxes or 41 664 without taxes. 2 people with such a salary and 2 children will have an average per capita income of 20 822. And the cost of a car is exactly 18, but not an average per capita income, but an average salary, which was written in Russian in white.
              1. Nasrat
                Nasrat 30 July 2020 11: 42 New
                -34
                fine ... but explain then how you can buy a car with this money? A car, well, at least even for the same 750 thousand rubles. (And as an addition, what kind of new car can it be, now for 750 thousand rubles?)
                1. Roman123567
                  Roman123567 30 July 2020 12: 03 New
                  12
                  how can you buy a car with this money?


                  Moskvich " was worth about 45 average wages
                  As we can see, we are not talking about "buying" .. But how much average salary does a car cost a person ..

                  a new car, now for 750t.rub?
                  Maybe some kind of Kalina / Priora ??
                  Although if you take a car with a higher class .. then everything will turn out to be even worse ..
                  5 years ago Rio / Polo cost 450 thousand, by the way ..
                  1. Nasrat
                    Nasrat 30 July 2020 12: 12 New
                    -32
                    .
                    Quote: Roman123567
                    As we can see, we are not talking about "buying" .. But how much average salary does a car cost a person ..

                    And on this, the author of the article concludes that we did not live better, but that cars became cheaper, so there are so many of them outside the window ... then the same question for you:

                    Do you agree that you and your wife, together, will be able to save up for a car for one of your salaries for 18 months, the amount of 750 thousand rubles, while living on the salary of, say, your wife? Or the whole theory of the author goes to hell ...
                    I'm just wondering, if yes, you can - fine ...
                    1. Nasrat
                      Nasrat 30 July 2020 12: 34 New
                      -31
                      I don’t understand, the author - the number of cars on our streets suggests that cars have become more affordable and, according to your reasoning, we have an average salary of 47 867 with taxes or 41 664 without taxes. 2 people with such a salary and 2 children will have an average per capita income of 20, and that 822 thousand rubles is 750 monthly income of a person - right? But what about the survey commissioned by Rosgosstrakh Life?

                      So why are there so many cars on our roads?



                      1. Roman123567
                        Roman123567 30 July 2020 12: 44 New
                        13
                        that's 18 monthly income of a person - right?
                        That's right .. This is official data, such as the government .. From this the author pushed ..
                        In general, there were few cars before, not because they were expensive .. just before people had money in large quantities than now .. And without any loans there were a lot of people who wanted to buy a car .. There were simply no cars ..))
                      2. Lannan Shi
                        Lannan Shi 30 July 2020 13: 23 New
                        34
                        Quote: Nasr
                        So why are there so many cars on our roads?

                        You know, my dear. Here is your personal reasoning, a complete tracing paper from the reasoning of a cannibal Papuan from the Straw Islands, at the end of the 19th century. "My grandfather had 1 can of beer in his nose, my father had 1 in the nose and 1 in the ear. And I had 1 in the nose, 2 in the ears, and another 1 on the lip. And life is getting better!"
                        There was such an emperor, Sasha Sashevich Romanov. And he had exactly zero car. And then chu? I am ready to listen to the version that he was an outright bum, against the background of a guest from the Caucasus, bombing Moscow on a rusty top ten.
                        Here's a bum in a Mercedes.

                        Is it thriving strongly?
                        And here's a whole bum town for you.

                        Here and a couple of cars per family is the norm. And then chu? This is the elite, against the background of what top manager from city groups who earns 10-20 Lyams a year and does not have a car simply because he goes down to work on the 10th floor, from the penthouse at 70m, and he simply has no need for a car?
                        Laponka. As indicators of the quality of life, a car is not even included in the top five most important. Food, clothing, medicine, education, housing. Here are five factors that speak volumes about quality of life. And for all these five in Russia - a complete failure. And the car ... A can in the nose for the Papuan of the 21st century. Until I left construction, and it was more free with finances, I lived by the principle - I earn enough to ride a taxi. And as the standard of living fell noticeably, I had to get a typewriter, because there is no longer enough money for a taxi. And you either have a training manual on the topic of a car, or a car fetish for you.
                      3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        30 July 2020 14: 45 New
                        22
                        Thank you very much for the detailed analysis hi
                      4. your1970
                        your1970 30 July 2020 19: 03 New
                        -6
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        housing. Here are five factors that speak volumes about quality of life. And for all these five in Russia - a complete failure.

                        And they say that we have people NOT mobile because it is tied to his housing. Personal property ...
                      5. Revival
                        Revival 1 August 2020 17: 47 New
                        +1
                        This is because where people want to go and earn, they cannot afford to rent a house, otherwise everything earned for this will go away
                      6. your1970
                        your1970 1 August 2020 19: 22 New
                        -1
                        I repeat - we are practically the only country in the world where about 90% of the population owns housing ...
                      7. Revival
                        Revival 1 August 2020 20: 50 New
                        +1
                        What are 90%, what are you talking about?
                      8. your1970
                        your1970 1 August 2020 22: 03 New
                        0
                        The official figure for the privatization of housing.
                        Here we are not talking about footage per capita or a separate hut for each family member.
                        But 90% of the population of the Russian Federation are either owners or have a share in the property right ...
                        In the USA, about 26% of the population of such owners is the rest of the tenants / mortgagees
            2. Beringovsky
              Beringovsky 30 July 2020 17: 55 New
              +7
              So why are there so many cars on our roads?

              These are not machines so much, these are not enough roads. Plus, public transport is expensive and not always convenient. That is why the courtyards are sometimes packed to capacity with cars, pictures of which are very fond of posting by zaputins. And there is simply not enough space, but if you estimate how many there are in houses around families, then the picture changes dramatically.
            3. aglet
              aglet 31 July 2020 08: 27 New
              +3
              "So why are there so many cars on our roads?"
              you forgot about a loan, i.e., a life in debt
          2. Roman123567
            Roman123567 30 July 2020 12: 42 New
            11
            Together you and your wife can save up for a car for one of your salaries. for 18 months the amount of 750 thousand rubles, while living on the salary of, say, his wife? Or the whole theory of the author goes to hell ...
            Damn .. well, what's difficult, hospadya ..
            I explain it as for the third grade ..
            Compared to Moskvich, when was worth he is like 45 average salaries, it was also not about "living on the wife's salary" ..
            When a Moskvich cost 45 average salaries, this does not mean that his bought in 45 months ..

            I answered before that - As we can see, we are not talking about "buying" .. But how much average salary does a car cost a person ..
            1. Nasrat
              Nasrat 30 July 2020 12: 50 New
              -29
              And I explain to you as a third class that the author substantiates on this that there are more cars on our roads only because they have become more affordable (18 months versus 45) ... And in this regard, the question - an increase in the car park occurred by an order of magnitude more (not several times, but an order of magnitude and not one !!) than it was with the same Muscovites only because the cars became cheaper relative to the charge. payment or there is also a factor of well-being and elementary availability of the car for the population. And at the same time, the author gives directly opposite figures on the income of the population, then according to the report, the average per capita income is 15 thousand rubles. and less, otherwise the average per capita income is 23000 rubles ... Didn't it strike you? And then the question of 18 months somehow becomes irrelevant, because it grows by 750 to the same 000 monthly salary ... the difference from 30 monthly

              so why are there so many cars on our roads?
            2. Roman123567
              Roman123567 30 July 2020 12: 57 New
              +9
              or there is also a factor of welfare and the elementary availability of the car for the population.
              That's right - both of these factors exist ..
              The author described the first factor - that 18 average salaries are less than 45 average salaries .. It should be borne in mind that it is necessary to save 18 months from these salaries for food / housing and communal services / clothes, and not 45 .. which changes even more situation !! And here we are already going out just the same ...
              Well, I also wrote about accessibility .. yes - they produce more cars now, and there is no need to stand in line for years .. The author also described this even with the example of the 90s .. then the growth of cars was even more than now ..
              So what else is there a misunderstanding ??
            3. Nasrat
              Nasrat 30 July 2020 13: 12 New
              -32
              from an article by the same author:

              And further. Very often today, the rate of motorization of the Russian Federation is demonstrated as an increase in the well-being of citizens. How many times have I already read in articles and comments the opinion of vigilant comrades: they say, everyone complains that money is bad, and cars are forced to all yards, neither walk nor cross the road.
              and further reasoning that cars became cheaper ...

              Looks like money among the population is really bad, but with cheap cars it is good ... and not only ...


            4. Roman123567
              Roman123567 30 July 2020 13: 24 New
              +4
              from an article by the same author:


              Is the difference between 18 and 45 clear ?? Fine..
              If you save 25% from the salary to buy a car, we will get 72 and 180 months at the end .. Time to save up, squeezing in money .. During this period you don't go on vacation .. don't have children, don't do repairs .. a lot what else you can't ...
              It seems to me that if in the first case it is really possible to be patient .. then in the torus it is easier to immediately abandon the car ..
              The author is completely right ..

              Looks like money from the population is really bad, but with cheap cars it is good ...

              That's right .. Cars began to be sold on every corner ..
            5. Nasrat
              Nasrat 30 July 2020 13: 29 New
              -30
              Quote: Roman123567
              Cars began to be sold on every corner ..

              and most importantly are bought! And the population has money for it !!! from this and buy! What is the author's rights? Is it that our people have become more prosperous? Yes, that's right. in the fact that he can afford a car, and judging by the cars that run on the roads, there is a lot more people spend there than 750t.r. ..
            6. Roman123567
              Roman123567 30 July 2020 13: 46 New
              10
              And the population has money for it !!! from this and buy!
              under the Soviet Union, the population had even more money .. just did not have a car, and so many lay under the mattresses on the 2nd Volga .. What is the author wrong ??
              Earlier, Moskvich cost as 45 zp, now as 18 zp .. What is the author wrong ??
              My grandfather dreamed of having a horse in his youth .. Now nobody needs a horse .. according to your logic - because the people became richer and got drunk ..
              However, Lannan Shi has already described all this more clearly above.
            7. Roman123567
              Roman123567 30 July 2020 13: 48 New
              +3
              and most importantly are bought!
              And apartments are bought ... with loans, mortgages - but you have to take them ... For that an apartment, that a car is now a means of necessity ...
              I wouldn’t need it for that kind of money .. plus the same amount of expenses for 10 years .. And I have to buy ..
    5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      30 July 2020 14: 43 New
      18
      Quote: Nasr
      or there is also a factor of well-being

      Yeah. Like in the dashing 90s When the number of cars in the population almost doubled
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. Umalta
      Umalta 31 July 2020 02: 29 New
      +5
      Remember the aftermarket (used) cars. Most of them are bought from the wealthy. A bunch of high-paid people have been driving for no more than 2 - 3 years, and if a car has been in an accident, then they will sell it earlier (it was a mistake to drive one).
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    30 July 2020 14: 42 New
    18
    Quote: Nasr
    Do you agree that you and your wife, together, will be able to save up for a car for one of your salaries for 18 months, the amount of 750 thousand rubles, while living on the salary of, say, your wife? Or the whole theory of the author goes to hell ...

    This logic in your post is going to hell. How is it from the fact that a car for 750 thousand rubles. worth 18 average salaries in the Russian Federation, it follows that a person SHOULD raise money for this car within 18 months? And if he collected from 36 months, then what? And if he collected them for 36 months, collected half, and took the rest on credit?
    I understand, polemical fervor and all that, but you have to think that you are writing
  • Svarog
    Svarog 30 July 2020 13: 52 New
    11
    Quote: Nasr
    but explain then how you can buy a car with this money? A car, well, at least even for the same 750 thousand rubles. (And as an addition, what kind of new car can it be, now for 750 thousand rubles?)

    It's very simple, the average age of a car in Russia is 12 years .. It is quite possible to buy a 12 year old foreign car for 750t .. and a VAZ for 150 .. Auto is not an indicator at all ..
    https://news.drom.ru/77311.html
  • Igoresha
    Igoresha 30 July 2020 21: 56 New
    +6
    to go nuts, 45 thousand average salary? a cousin in the Belgorod region as the head of a private feed mill works for 40, deputy director for something there. To a friend of a comer, Belgorod, the owner of a grocery store from the Employment Inspectorate, the commissions come and blame for the fact that the salary of his saleswomen is below 10 thousand, for which they receive advice to go to Magnit across the street and find out the salaries there, but they do not go to Magnit to inspect why then.
  • Nasrat
    Nasrat 30 July 2020 11: 38 New
    -30
    And since the author has explained about cars, then the author will have a couple of lines about the rest

    So as the author explains the following:

    From July 1, 2020, we meet 200 flights per day. If by the end of June there were 20 thousand people in Sochi, then from July 1 the number of tourists began to arrive at 30-35 thousand daily, they say at the Sochi airport.
    The record for vacationers was also broken. There are even more tourists in the summer of 2020 than came to the 2014 Olympics or the 2018 FIFA World Cup. On July 19, 2020, for example, the airport received the maximum number of tourists per day - 40682 people.

    New directions appeared in the airport schedule - to Yaroslavl, Ulyanovsk, Orenburg, Murmansk, Kemerovo, Vladivostok and others.

    - In July, we plan to receive more than 350 thousand tourists, - the press service of the airport said. - Now the number of vacationers has already exceeded 170 thousand people.

    And we have not counted yet those who come independently by car (on their own - obviously on those cars that were bought for an 18 month salary !!!).

    https://www.kp.ru/russia/novosti-turizma-v-rossii/na-sochinskom-poberezhe-rekord-po-priemu-turistov/
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      30 July 2020 14: 50 New
      22
      Quote: Nasr
      And since the author has explained about cars, then the author will have a couple of lines about the rest

      there is
      Quote: Nasr
      - In July, we plan to receive more than 350 thousand tourists, - the press service of the airport said. - Now the number of vacationers has already exceeded 170 thousand people.

      And now we open our eyes and look at the statistics I gave. according to the RSK Life in our country in June of this year, 5,6% of the population have a salary of more than 50 thousand rubles and they can afford a vacation in Sochi. Taking into account the fact that the number of our employees is estimated at about 70 million people, it turns out that about 3,5 million people can afford a vacation in Sochi.
      What's the problem? laughing
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 31 July 2020 09: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        What's the problem?

        The problem is that this quasi-human does not have an owl on the globe. By the way, let's talk about demography. To really change the situation, you need not only gingerbread, but also a whip. But the trouble is that with the current economy of victorious capitalism, there is not enough money for carrots so much that an attempt to apply the whip will very quickly lead to the fact that everything will be like in the 90s. So everything goes to the point that we will stagnate for a long time importing migrants, and then naturally the new 90s. This is if there is no serious war. And we, together with the whole world, are moving towards it at an accelerated pace.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          31 July 2020 10: 10 New
          +3
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          The problem is that this quasi-human does not have an owl on the globe.

          I can be sorry. But - only an owl :))))
    2. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 30 July 2020 15: 09 New
      +4
      So your masters closed the border!
      Their sanatoriums and hotels are idle! And the people have a vacation ...
      "Where can the poor peasant go?" (from)
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 30 July 2020 11: 38 New
    20
    Quote: Nasr
    In connection with this, the question is - where is the author lying?

    What is the lie? Is that cars are cheaper?
    Without nitpicking, do you have something to say in essence?
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 30 July 2020 11: 58 New
      -35
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Quote: Nasr
      In connection with this, the question is - where is the author lying?

      What is the lie? Is that cars are cheaper?
      Without nitpicking, do you have something to say in essence?

      The author assures that there are more cars because they became cheaper ... - great!
      The author assures that the national average
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      We have an average salary - 47 867 with taxes or 41 664 without taxes. 2 people with such a salary and 2 children will have an average per capita income of 20. And the cost of the car exactly 18, but not the average per capita income, but average salary for hands,


      A question for you - do you agree that you and your wife, together, will be able to save 18 thousand rubles for a car for one of your salaries for 750 months, while living on, say, your wife's salary? Or the whole theory of the author goes to hell ...
      I'm just wondering, if yes, you can - fine ...
      1. Roman123567
        Roman123567 30 July 2020 12: 47 New
        15
        save up for a car for one of your salaries for 18 months in the amount of 750 thousand rubles, while living on the salary


        Yes, take off the earflaps from your head ..))

        It was also impossible to save up for Moskvich for 45 salaries and live 45 months .. Nevertheless, Moskvich cost as much as 45 average salaries ..
        1. Nasrat
          Nasrat 30 July 2020 13: 24 New
          -21
          Quote: Roman123567
          save up for a car for one of your salaries for 18 months in the amount of 750 thousand rubles, while living on the salary


          Yes, take off the earflaps from your head ..))

          It was also impossible to save up for Moskvich for 45 salaries and live 45 months .. Nevertheless, Moskvich cost as much as 45 average salaries ..

          I understand everything perfectly ... and above you have already answered everything ..
          1. Roman123567
            Roman123567 30 July 2020 13: 51 New
            +5
            From what you answered above, it is clear that you did not understand anything .. because I kept asking how you can buy a car in 18 months and live all this time ..))
            1. Nasrat
              Nasrat 30 July 2020 14: 22 New
              -22
              Quote: Roman123567
              From what you answered above, it is clear that you did not understand anything .. because I kept asking how you can buy a car in 18 months and live all this time ..))

              That's why he asked, so that it would come to people like you - the average salary is 47 867 with taxes or 41 664 without taxes, while the author believed that 2 people with such a salary and 2 children would have an average per capita income of 20 822 ... (these are the words of the author !!!) So it dawns on you that the income of a family of 4 people (two children are the words of the author) will be 83328 rubles with taxes paid .... So ..... what do we have - a poor, unhappy , an oppressed person forced to drag out a miserable coexistence .... and thank God there are cheap cars, otherwise there is no such income too .. !!! And that's why we have so many cars on the roads !!!
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              30 July 2020 14: 52 New
              13
              Quote: Nasr
              That's why he asked, so that it would come to people like you - the average salary is 47 867 with taxes or 41 664 without taxes, while the author believed that 2 people with such a salary and 2 children would have an average per capita income of 20 822 ... (these are the words of the author !!!) So it comes to you that the income of a family of 4 people (two children are the words of the author) will be 83328 rubles with taxes paid

              Exactly. And this is very little.
  • mdsr
    mdsr 30 July 2020 11: 41 New
    25
    Quote: Stroporez
    Quote: mdsr
    Andrey in his brilliant article smeared these cheap tricks on the asphalt with a thin layer

    I agree, Kamrad! The article is just FIRE for witchers.
    Andrey had wonderful naval articles, but judging by his comments, I thought, well, when will .... And here he is, an analytical MASTERPIECE!
    Of course, Andrei BRAVO!

    If a person is talented, then he is talented from different sides. Take Andrey from Chelyabinsk, he was a sailor and rose to the rank of captain of the second or third rank, I don't remember exactly. After retirement, he began to write articles about the fleet, to express his opinion. They turn out to be of a very high level. And today he wrote an article on a social topic. And immediately a surprisingly high level. I really hope that he will continue to do this in the future. I would like to see articles on the state of affairs with the gap in real incomes of different strata of the population in figures and graphs, on the growth in the welfare of the super-rich group of citizens relative to the growth of Russia's GDP, on the demographic situation and much more.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      30 July 2020 16: 28 New
      17
      Quote: mdsr
      Take Andrey from Chelyabinsk, he was a sailor and rose to the rank of captain of the second or third rank, I don't remember exactly.

      I'm extremely flattered by your assessment, but I've never served in the Navy. I missed it due to poor eyesight. I just studied. And economics is my profession
      1. mdsr
        mdsr 30 July 2020 19: 04 New
        +7
        You surprised me. For some reason, I was sure that you were a retired captain of the 2nd or third rank. Then, with whom did I confuse you?
        In any case, good luck to you! We will wait for new articles.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          31 July 2020 07: 17 New
          +4
          Quote: mdsr
          Then, with whom did I confuse you?

          Perhaps, with a mine, he is Maxim Klimov, he is Physicist-M. He's a drop-three hi
          Quote: mdsr
          In any case, good luck!

          Thank you!
  • Arlen
    Arlen 30 July 2020 11: 25 New
    31
    Quote: mdsr
    They will just have to silently minus in dog rage

    Let them pass, they still will not minus the truth.
  • depressant
    depressant 30 July 2020 13: 19 New
    23
    Thanks to Andrey from Chelyabinsk for such a fundamental research, and we must draw conclusions from it ourselves.
    For example, my first conclusion - so offhand - is that low wages that do not meet the workers' need to reproduce the workforce are a consequence of the surplus of the population compared to the number of high-paying jobs. Does the government understand this? Well then! All of them taught Marxism-Leninism and, based on the knowledge gained, Putin promised us (I apologize for mentioning a fact that has already become indecent) as many as 25 million highly qualified jobs that could solve the problem of poverty. So the country's industrialization is powerful and rapid? Modernization of former Soviet factories? It did not grow together. And why? Because the legs of the current oppressive situation are growing out of the goals for which the USSR was brought down. They all boiled down to the appropriation and development of natural resources by a handful of ruling bureaucracy, and the rest - whatever you want, who will fit in how. New industrialization? Yes, fullness! Here we will build all kinds of refineries, we will extend the pipes, we will build tankers, and if someone has managed to spin up a wagon factory there, we will look at the degree of promotion and, if necessary, we will trade. And then the owner of that factory will suddenly roll his lip onto our oil and gas rigs ...
    The unbearable depressiveness of the industrial state of the country, one-sidedness, flawed production development, the attitude to the people, like to cattle, which was driven out to the pasture (graze yourself!), And he, a scoundrel, ate grass and still asks - got ready to live, scoundrel! And even mumbles about some kind of reproduction - what else! We will build exactly what contributes to the withdrawal of currency abroad to our offshore accounts, the rest - away, back, bring down the trampled field!
    And now our shepherd, who is also the president, indistinctly and sadly with his mouth Peskov declares that the program to eliminate poverty has been postponed by six years, which means that it is essentially excluded altogether. Like, let's proceed from reality. Let's! Why do we need such a shepherd? Someone who is not able to provide feedback between us and those who are able to create the highly paid jobs we need. Where is this feedback? There is no her! Where is the powerful political pressure on the oligarchy? He is not here! Even the pitiful "extra" 2% of personal income tax has already been canceled! Then it would be nice to hear from the president himself arguments in favor of his need for us. Why are you, such a helpless Mr. Putin, our president, and not someone else?
    1. your1970
      your1970 30 July 2020 17: 37 New
      -9
      Quote: depressant
      And why? Because the legs of the current oppressive situation are growing out of the goals for which the USSR was brought down. They all boiled down to the appropriation and development of natural resources by a handful of ruling bureaucracy, and the rest - whatever you want, who will fit in how.

      Let me remind you, just in case, otherwise suddenly the miners began to forget the USSR, who wanted self-financing, or rather the dough ... And they started knocking their helmets in 1989 ...
      54 strikes in 1989-90 miners. First, "Give me cost accounting !!", and then "Down with the Communist Party !!" ...
      Guys with helmets wanted dough from the development of natural resources ...
      Then they threw them in full - these initiators of the murder of the USSR ... But then ...
      1. miner
        miner 24 August 2020 18: 29 New
        0
        I am one of those who knocked with a helmet. So, as a participant in those events, I can say that judging by the way the strikes took place, they were clearly organized. I doubt that they were planned. But that someone took advantage of the spontaneous performance in Mezhdurechensk, if my memory serves, I have no doubt. It didn't cost anything to suppress these performances, but the leadership literally condoned the spread of strikes. Apparently the command was given - Do not interfere ...
        And yes. I have no doubt that the performances were provoked on purpose. For some reason, soap disappeared from sale in mining towns, and there were questions about wages. There is a plan, there will be a salary. No plan, get two-thirds of the fare.
        1. your1970
          your1970 24 August 2020 23: 03 New
          0
          Quote: miner
          So, as a participant in those events, I can say that, judging by the way the strikes took place, they were well organized... About what were planned doubt it.
          -to something organize - it is necessary to plan. Without a plan of action, it is impossible to organize something.

          Quote: miner
          It cost nothing to crush these performances
          -and everyone already sensed that the CPSU was a corpse and no one wanted to be responsible for this corpse ... Nobody ...
          1. miner
            miner 31 August 2020 19: 14 New
            0
            In order to crush the strikes at the beginning, it was enough to declare that the strikers, when there were only a few of them, would be fired for absenteeism, according to the Labor Code. But for some reason the bosses and directors did not even try to make such a statement.
            And I don’t remember that in July 89, the majority felt that the CPSU was a corpse. This feeling came after the strikes.
            1. your1970
              your1970 1 September 2020 00: 32 New
              +1
              Quote: miner
              And I don’t remember that in July 89, the majority felt that the CPSU was a corpse.
              you yourself also confirm that corpse
              Quote: miner
              But for some reason bosses and directors, make such a statement didn't even try.

              A little earlier by 20-30 years - the question would not even arise. The troops would solve this issue quickly ... as in Georgia or in Novocherkassk ...
              But in 1989 - everything, already the order "Shoot to kill!" There was no one to give - everyone was afraid to become extreme, responsible for everything ..

              A similar situation was in 2014 in Ukraine - Yanukovych did not give the order to shoot at the Maidan, not because he was so pitiful, but because he realized that the order would no longer be carried out - his time was up ...
              1. miner
                miner 19 September 2020 20: 16 New
                0
                The "Shoot" order was unnecessary. It was enough to declare that the instigators would be dismissed.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 19 September 2020 22: 49 New
                  -1
                  Quote: miner
                  It was enough to declare that the instigators would fired.
                  -and what ??? !!! now is the trouble, and in the USSR, firstly, it was difficult to fire, and secondly, the miners were not lying on the road and in any neighboring mining town they would take with a bang and give a room in a hostel ... And you know that as well as I do .. ...
                  They frightened them with layoffs, yeah ... that is why the miners held a rally - that they were practically invulnerable
                  1. miner
                    miner 27 September 2020 02: 22 New
                    0
                    Yo-mine) To fire a miner, both under the USSR and now, a couple of trifles. Safety rules in coal and shale mines are written in such a way that it is practically impossible to violate them. I don’t know about other coal-mining basins, but in Vorkuta, having an article for violating Safety Techniques, it was almost impossible to get a job at another mine.
                  2. your1970
                    your1970 27 September 2020 17: 29 New
                    0
                    Is it easy to fire in the USSR? Is it impossible for a miner to get a job in a mine in the USSR ?? Come on!!!
                    Recruiters even came to us, where the nearest mine is 1000 km away. They persuaded my father's second cousin - first he worked in Vorkuta, then in Spitsbergen. Apparently there was such a surplus of miners in the 70s, yeah ...
  • Umalta
    Umalta 31 July 2020 02: 47 New
    +4
    It's funny, but the owners of our bowels, towers and pipes, can, after all, be kicked by foreign partners, and in order for this not to happen, a strong army and a mob resource is needed, preferably a high-quality one and where will this ... Today, looking at the younger generation, I see that in terms of health, everything is very bleak.
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 31 July 2020 10: 03 New
    +2
    Quote: depressant
    Why do we need such a shepherd?

    The sheep need a shepherd. And you are still a man. Let's do it somehow without such filthy rhetoric.
    Quote: depressant
    that the poverty eradication program is shifted by six years

    That is, it is shifting into a bright future. In the meantime, it is proposed to be patient and hold on. I remember these scum to this music demolished the USSR. Why did these scum decide that now the people should endure for the sake of their bright capitalist present? Putin has really lost touch with reality, like everyone around him.
    Quote: depressant
    Where is the powerful political pressure on the oligarchy?

    Because Putin is the spokesman for the interests of the oligarchy. But if it were differently, he didn't stay in the chair for a month.
  • forty-eighth
    forty-eighth 30 July 2020 13: 47 New
    +7
    what you want in Ukraine
  • ZAV69
    ZAV69 1 August 2020 16: 56 New
    0
    And why raise something if it is. The analysis is 100% correct. Only some high-tech pieces of iron fall out of the picture, well, there is a very rapid moral obsolescence. Rather, an exception confirming the rule.
  • vprnik
    vprnik 30 July 2020 11: 14 New
    14
    Until 2008, "life was getting better" at a relatively low base.
    1. depressant
      depressant 30 July 2020 16: 28 New
      16
      Briefly about imaginary well-being.
      It is significant that while analyzing the article, everyone ran into the fact that people have more cars every year. They rested and were confused. How so? Poverty and cars don't seem to go together ...
      In 1960, there were 400 private cars in the USSR.
      In 2003, there were already 23,3 million in Russia.
      In 2018, the State Traffic Safety Inspectorate registered 46,8 million passenger cars.
      And this is a global trend. From 1986 to 2010, the number of private cars worldwide doubled to 1 billion units.
      But if in the USSR the car was a sign of prosperity in the family, solvency and even wealth, then in today's Russia the presence of a large number of private cars is just a sign of a consumer society, one that bankers have been tirelessly working on for many years, in fact, all the past decades. and marketers, clogging people's brains with the need to live beautifully. And if you are not able to live like this, then you are nobody and nothing in this life, even if you are seven inches in your forehead. And now, gradually, the instilled sense of inferiority drove people into credit bondage, so much so that last year the current deputy prime minister, and earlier the presidential adviser, Andrei Removich Belousov, sounded the alarm. Loans have become an unbearable burden on the population, and now, in the era of the coronavirus, when a huge number of jobs have been lost, the population falls like a gravestone. After all, loans were taken not only for cars and trips to the resort, but even for toys and food. So, when you look out the window, you see there not signs of the solvency of your neighbors in the form of a car lane, but a credit stranglehold thrown over them. And if someone contrived to pay off the bank for a car in the amount of almost two of its cost, it means that he has not yet paid off the loan for an apartment, furniture, etc. This is an instilled image of respectability, but in reality it is slavery.
      Suffice it to say that by 2020, Russian credit debt amounted to 15 trillion rubles, and now it has exceeded 17,2 trillion and continues to grow. And this is when the majority of the population was sitting at home during the coronavirus! Can you guess what the loans were taken for? For food and for the repayment of old loans, but now as non-working - on the security of all the same apartments and cars, banks are reluctant to agree to anything else. And the time will come when your neighbors will be evicted, and the rows of cars will thin out ...
      The average debt of each active Russian on a loan is currently 227 thousand rubles, and each year it increases on average from 65 to 100 thousand rubles. This is despite the fact that no one is going to create new jobs, and the economic recovery is expected, according to the most optimistic estimates, only by the end of 2021. And those who take out loans now do not irresponsibly think about the fact that we live in a society with an economy that has been permanently falling for the seventh year in a row. It is not profitable for banks and marketers to trumpet about this at every corner!
      1. Taga
        Taga 30 July 2020 17: 21 New
        +5
        The invisible hand of the market reaches out to everyone's throat!
      2. your1970
        your1970 30 July 2020 17: 50 New
        -1
        Quote: depressant
        And those who take out loans now do not irresponsibly think about the fact that we live in a society with an economy that has been permanently falling for the seventh year in a row.

        Absolutely agree!!! But to put into the head of a person taking a loan for an iPhone or Sony PC-brains, alas, is impossible. How to explain that on our gullies both Grant and X-5 ride exactly the same ...
        Children are a pity, their parents are not a drop (if they are not able to turn on the brain for a second). They want to eat a doshirak for the holidays and go "expensively-bohato!" - their right !!!!!
        1. Darkesstcat
          Darkesstcat 31 July 2020 07: 58 New
          +2
          Well, there is also the sellers fussing around, Father broke the TV, and the sad one, without saying anything to me, went to the store and bought another one in installments, and there the good sellers gave him a column and an online subscription to the cinema, the cost of 1,5 TVs (a person who does not have the Internet ). This is how the installment plan came out instead of $ 200 for $ 950.
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 31 July 2020 10: 09 New
            +3
            Quote: Darkesstcat
            kind sellers

            What do you want? This is how the system works. If not they are different. Therefore, it is ridiculous to hope for a change in the situation without destroying the capitalist economic system.
            1. Darkesstcat
              Darkesstcat 31 July 2020 14: 08 New
              +1
              I don't want anything, can anyone just fool? especially inexperienced. Therefore, I usually tare through the Internet, there is less chance of shoving in excess.
  • NordUral
    NordUral 30 July 2020 19: 42 New
    +7
    They have had this priority for 20 years already .. but no result. But there is no result, you need to retire.
    No, not to retire, but to answer for what was not done.
    1. depressant
      depressant 30 July 2020 23: 51 New
      11
      Who will attract, colleague? We?...
      The metamorphosis of Russia has gained a terrible momentum, which is being spun by the already clearly visible class of hereditary owners. And so that the rights to the country's riches do not go to others, do not go beyond the class, the inertial roller rolls the strangers out of their own into a cake and makes the strangers its own. Own population is replaced by migrants, own entrepreneurs - by foreign ones. Those and others, alien to us, to the authorities - their own, the indigenous ethnic groups to it - aliens. This is no longer the same globalization that manifested itself in previous eras by the conquest of half the world by one country, the import of slaves, or colonization - this is the know-how of the 21st century and it is not even colonization, on the contrary, in which labor force in the form of mercenaries is brought into its own the territory of the exploiter on a contractual basis with the subsequent obligatory return to their historical homeland. It was - passed. Now, if necessary, rooting. But the main feature of know-how is the unification of the oligarchy of a number of countries into a single international class of exploiters, in which each of them chooses a suitable people for exploitation of any other oligarch or even several. On the basis of interweaving in a tight knot the economic and political interests of all the exploiters included in their international association.
      Therefore, to say that Putin should be responsible for the disgrace committed to us is to say nothing. Putin, Macron, Merkel, Trump, the presidents of Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, comrade Xi and others chosen by the clerks to run errands for the international oligarchy - they are all responsible to us. This does not mean that I am excluding Putin from blame. I simply pose the question: to whom and for what will Putin be responsible? Maybe Gorbachev will help us?
      You say my reasoning is extremely pessimistic? Well, I'm a Depressant))
      Indeed, this is not a return to the naive ideas of Comrade Trotsky, for the international oligarchy has already managed to use them for its unification. There must be something else, there are many of us, the mind is good, many minds are much better, let's search, the war is not accepted for consideration.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 31 July 2020 10: 10 New
        +7
        Lyudmila Yakovlevna! The people must be held accountable if they are a people and not a cattle herd. There is still a chance, but it literally melts before our eyes. This is so pleased with the scam on the "vote" on amendments, stretched out in time and space, that they want to turn this trick again. This is what we need to think about and object to.
        And yet, the process of replacing indigenous peoples, especially Russian, has long been going on in the Russian Federation. And the displacement of the indigenous population from the labor market. And it's time to start fighting this.
        And the main thing that needs to be done is to create a united front of the patriotic opposition, both at the top and among the people. These years are our last chance.
        And the last thing - I, like you too, believe that globalists around the world are rebuilding it in such a way that educated and thinking people in all countries become less and less, reducing the number of specialists to the required level of intellectual servants.
        And with a herd of ruminants in the form of people, they will cope easily and simply. Billions will be spent on fertilizers.
        And we are no exception if we do not wake up.
      2. your1970
        your1970 1 August 2020 22: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: depressant
        Own population is replaced by migrants, own entrepreneurs - by foreign ones. Those and others, alien to us, to the authorities - their own, the indigenous ethnic groups to it - aliens.

        Please clarify the concept " Limits"70s in the USSR?
        Specify please, where did the Dagestanis come from in Samatlor and Tyumen in the 70s?
        Specify, please, where did the Ingush come from in Magadan and Kolyma in the 70s?
        Specify please, where did the Chechens come from in Saratov in the 70s? Not from Kazakhstan but from the Caucasus?
        Specify, please, where did the Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs come from in St. Petersburg in the 70s?
        In your opinion, it was alien to the indigenous ethnos, but for some reason the USSR did not care about it ...

        Like now this is bad, but with USSR- simply great??

        Or the USSR was preparing the ground for
        Quote: depressant
        Putin, Macron, Merkel, Trump, the presidents of Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, comrade Xi and others chosen by the clerks running errands for the international oligarchy
        ???????? !!!!!!

        It was possible for the USSR to carry guest workers around the country, but the current ones are not allowed? It tastes like double standards .. ...
        1. depressant
          depressant 2 August 2020 01: 08 New
          +3
          Colleague, a great demand on your part! When the Kyrgyz and Kazakhs were citizens of the USSR, they had every right to settle in any settlement of the country and send the money they earned to their ethnic homeland to their family. But at the same time, the money was distributed within the same USSR, equalizing the welfare of Soviet citizens living in backward regions with the welfare of those who lived in developed ones. Now Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Tajiks, others are citizens of other countries. Earning money in our country, they thereby deprive us, the indigenous, of earnings. That is, they play the role of strikebreakers. This is possible because the migrants initially agreed
          - for lower salaries, kickbacks,
          - live in trailers or in a crowd of 10 - 15 people in one room,
          - eat badly,
          - to endure evil bosses,
          - buy off the police,
          - observe political neutrality,
          -- etc.
          The main thing in this story is the indulgence of the influx of guest workers from the former Soviet republics on the part of our political authorities, because in many cases this is the only way to establish good-neighborly relations with the country from where they came. But now, unlike the USSR, migrant workers annually withdraw up to $ 14 billion from the territory of our country to their own countries! This is the money that could be earned by the citizens of Russia, to improve their well-being, but the capitalists, for the above reasons, preferred guest workers, which means the withdrawal of capital.
          Moreover, migrant workers over the past decades have rallied into diasporas, which almost do not allow us, local, into some industries, for example, in construction, road, in small trade in vegetables and fruits, etc. At the same time, they acquired working qualifications in these areas due to the fact that millions of Russian citizens were deprived of such an opportunity.
          I repeat, this is the purposeful policy of our government, which it is not going to give up. Politically uncomplaining guest workers are much more profitable for her than her population, which is still able to put forward the authorities not only uncomfortable for her economic, but also political demands. It is because of this that we are squeezed out of the economy, replaced by migrants wherever possible. And through the distribution of citizenship to non-indigenous ethnic groups, they even solve the demographic problem. In turn, these 14 or how many (in different years in different ways) $ billion, increasing the GDP of the countries from which guest workers came to us, therefore, theirs, and not our households, mean that the governments of these countries indirectly, through their citizens , exploit us, the indigenous population of Russia. To be more precise, on the basis of a joint agreement, together with our government, we are not only robbed, but also made unnecessary in their ethnic homeland.
          1. your1970
            your1970 2 August 2020 09: 54 New
            0
            That is, you are confused only by the loot exported from the Russian Federation?
            Pressure on the local ethnos, diasporas, the impossibility of crawling for the locals to certain positions and professions under the USSR it turns out to be good for
            Quote: depressant
            equalizing the welfare of Soviet citizens living in backward regions with the welfare of those who lived in developed ones.

            Vaughn what ... Then it's good, now it's bad ...
            But you forget another factor in the USSR (especially characteristic of Moscow) - this unwillingness local people work hard, dirty, and low-paying jobs. Muscovites did not work in such jobs when they were born ... They lured both local and non-local people there with apartments (a limit) Is it just that the ZIL area was growing by leaps and bounds?
            Moreover, I will tell you that if now there are no Gaster in Moscow, there will be a crisis. Local people who want to work as a janitor for 20 will not come running, and those who came to watch ours will not be interested either
            A relative worked "nasyalnik" in the communal sphere - he said that, on the one hand, they are healthy - they don't blather, but it is problematic - low qualifications and smart, and Russians don't go - not interesting for money - there is no point in working for 15-20-25 thousand in Moscow. Guest workers occupy those places where ours will not work for the same salary.

            And the most anecdote is that due to crises and sanctions, the dollar exchange rate becomes unprofitable for them, there is an outflow of migrants and very strongly. And how it will end - I don't know ...
            1. depressant
              depressant 2 August 2020 11: 02 New
              +2
              Colleague, your question is great! I believe that the fault was initially the non-greedy housing and communal services and the non-greedy construction companies. They took advantage of the fact that at the initial moment of the transition from socialism to capitalism, political power was not up to such "trifles", but over time it turned out that guest workers are a convenient political tool for regulating relations with "allies" from Central Asia. After all, migrant workers are the breadwinners of their countries, the money they bring in make up a significant part of the budget, allow governments not to try to develop their own national economy, considering our country as a cash cow. They are accustomed to this, and if they are discouraged from this by expelling their citizens from our construction projects and housing and communal services, and the latter are obliged to sharply raise salaries and employ only Russian citizens, then Asian countries will perceive this as a political attack against themselves, they will let the Chinese come to them and NATO. Our government cannot agree to this. In turn, our capitalists from housing and communal services and construction projects will scream that there is no revenue, sabotage will begin, destabilization of the internal political situation, which our government also cannot agree to. And there would be no such difficulties if the scoundrels did not go to the destruction of the USSR. And nothing can be opposed to the current situation. On the contrary, Putin gave migrant workers even wider access to our country than it was before the coronavirus era. Because he has no other instruments of political influence on the countries of Central Asia. What is left to do for us, the indigenous ethnic groups? To occupy the places where we are traditionally strong is science and complex production. But education is reduced to training for the USE exam, science is only in small doses, industrialization based on our own technological developments is not visible. Conclusion: we, the indigenous, are superfluous. That is why our talented youth strives to go abroad, and not because we ourselves raised the iron curtain. And it's not just talents who are eager to leave. If possible, everyone who succeeds. Putin is no longer able to change anything. The process has begun, the inertia is enormous. Back in the 10s, political scientists said that Putin was letting the brakes on Russia. There is nothing more he can do.
              1. your1970
                your1970 2 August 2020 12: 02 New
                0
                So only Putin and the capitalists are to blame ?????
                the USSR 70 x with a limit not in business ??????
                Oh well........
                And further.
                Somewhere I came across statistics that the number of returnees is already about 80% of the number of those who left. Only now they are not heard and not visible (in the offal up to their ears!) - that's why it seems that everywhere only "it's time to blame !!!!" ...
                1. depressant
                  depressant 2 August 2020 13: 17 New
                  +2
                  Colleague ... As far as I know, the so-called "limit" - these were their own, but only the village. In large cities of the RSFSR, hereditary, for generations cultivated townspeople did not at all seek to work as janitors or in the workshop at the machine tool and did everything so that their children did not leave their own cultural stratum. Hence - the urgent need of the city in the limit of the village. In turn, the passionate part of the village youth has always aspired to the city, where a priori there are more opportunities to realize their natural abilities. Averaging of cultural levels took place. The more the limits were, the lower the average cultural level of the city became. And the salaries ... Lima lived in hostels, earned good money and she was citizens of her country, and not outsiders who came from abroad. And I doubt very much that in Moscow they put Tajiks at the machines or gave them a broom. The country built factories for them in Tajikistan. Factories. Agriculture developed. They had enough work at home. They did not go to cold Moscow. And now they are accepted easily in Moscow and other cities. As cheap labor. Yes, capitalism. So far, no other road is visible.
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 2 August 2020 16: 44 New
                    0
                    You don’t want to see it .....
                    And the markets became Central Asian and Azerbaijani in the 70s, not yesterday, and not in the 90s ...
                    The whole oil worker was employed in the 70s by Dagestanis
                    And in OUR villages in the 70s - in spite of the availability of work - people break into the cities like mad. You yourself confirm this ...
                    And for Moscow - that our whole life has lived here Saratov Kazakhs, that the Buryats, that the Udmurts are all "Tajiks" ...

                    Only now real Tajiks leave for Tajikistan en masse and never return to us.
                    And soon there will be only those who either took root or received citizenship or have lived for a very long time ...
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 2 August 2020 17: 07 New
                      +3
                      Probably, I can't understand you in any way, because in Soviet times I studied in Moscow in a closed part of it, and then worked in a closed production. I have not seen a single "Tajik". There was only one Bandera who did not hide his convictions.
                    2. your1970
                      your1970 2 August 2020 21: 23 New
                      +1
                      Glory to ZIL !!!! There they were, all the nations of the USSR ...
                      AZLK was no less famous for its conveyors and limit ...
                      And further, further, further ... Any Moscow dirty and / or heavy plant had its own limit.
                      Zelenograd?
                      And yet, there were no closed programs for citizens of the USSR. national a sign of educational institutions and factories? Is not it lol ?

                      Our Saratov Kazakhs studied quite well both at MGIMO and at MISIS. How much of a closure ... And made a career ... But even in the Soviet Union Muscovites looked askance at them - "Fi !!"

                      Z.Y and judging by the fact that Bandera did not hide his beliefs (after 1986, not earlier) - we are the same age repeat
                    3. depressant
                      depressant 2 August 2020 22: 34 New
                      +1
                      Their own, the Banderaites never hid their beliefs ((This did not depend on the historical era.
                    4. your1970
                      your1970 2 August 2020 22: 36 New
                      0
                      They began to speak ardently on the topic of how the Ridna nanny feeds the Muscovites after 1986.
                    5. depressant
                      depressant 2 August 2020 22: 46 New
                      +1
                      At the household level - no fear. They just haven't strayed into open flocks yet. Before that, they clearly had communication between their own. This was felt by the confidence in the anti-Soviet statements.
  • Aag
    Aag 31 July 2020 06: 07 New
    +4
    ... "They have had this priority for 20 years already .. but there is no result. But there is no result, you need to retire." ..
    The results showed negative growth, which means also a pension, as if they did not work! It would be good, also compensation for the damage caused ...
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 30 July 2020 10: 13 New
    19
    There are a lot of positions in the regions where people get almost the minimum wage .... for example, a coach, a doctor, a teacher. We receive 17-20000 rubles / month. There are municipal allowances in cities. In Krasnodar, the same will receive 30000 rubles / month. In Moscow, there are other allowances and larger structures of education and medicine and sports. And if we just talk about income, then personally, my income grew (due to the growth of the position) until 2014, and then returned (in $) by 2012.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 30 July 2020 11: 19 New
      24
      Quote: Zaurbek
      then personally, my income grew

      In the 14th I received 20 tr, now it is 25% growth! wassat
      Only the prices in the store make it sad, it's good at least they added child benefits. And then at least howl like a wolf.
      On free bread, more came out, but when you are under fifty dollars, Stakhanov's work is already contraindicated. request
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 30 July 2020 11: 21 New
        14
        and since the 14th year, the ruble exchange rate has fallen by 2 times ...
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 30 July 2020 11: 24 New
          17
          Correctly noted, not the dollar rose, but the ruble fell. And retail prices rose even more, since the dollar is subject to inflation hi
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 30 July 2020 11: 49 New
        27
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        In the 14th I received 20 tr, now it is 25% growth!

        Fuck! Comrade, I thought your salary was higher in your city .... I got 2014-50 in winter, under 60 in summer, now barely thirty. Wife is 100. Not a damn thing is missing !!! 20 for a three-ruble note, and then they drove, the children grow up and soon to collect for school + to repair the school, you need to chip in, you need to eat, the samurai is almost crying and asks for money, roaring furiously with exhaust.
        And then I buried Batu two weeks ago, and the modest mourning events cost me almost 150 tyrs.
        PySy. If earlier I simply hated Putinism since 1999, now I don't know what words to express my feelings of "selfless love". am
        1. kepmor
          kepmor 30 July 2020 13: 33 New
          21
          I dare to assure you, you are far from alone in terms of "selfless love" ...
          I want to note that absolutely NO Zoldat from the putinoid caste rushed into battle foaming at the mouth with refutations of the facts set forth by the author ...
          not to see either the sergeant, nor the blessed Boris, nor the businessman Vadim with the pilot Ivanov ... deathly silence ...
          there is nothing to cover ...
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 30 July 2020 13: 59 New
            18
            Quote: kepmor
            not to see either the sergeant, nor the blessed Boris, nor the businessman Vadim with the pilot Ivanov ... deathly silence ...
            there is nothing to cover ...

            So they always have nothing to cover wassat they actually are not behind this .. the work is such .. they face the facts, but they have all God's Rossa .. It is pointless to prove anything ..
      3. dauria
        dauria 30 July 2020 13: 38 New
        16
        In the 14th I received 20 tr, now 25.

        These are true figures. I have 22 tr in 2008, now 30 tr. And just like that - at 55 I could no longer jump on stands and tours. And now, at the age of 60, it seems, they keep it out of pity, they give it "engineering". And the dream is one - to die on the go, not bothering anyone.
        1. kepmor
          kepmor 30 July 2020 14: 50 New
          13
          namesake, you quit these thoughts ... it’s not only hard for you now ... for many there is only ... looming on the horizon ... at the very beginning of the march under the tail of a combatant, well, to hell with her ... we will break through. ..
          those around the corner are just waiting for all those who disagree with serfdom to die ...
          so you and I SHOULD live for their evil and for the joy of those close to us ...
          health and long years ...
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 31 July 2020 00: 01 New
            10
            Quote: kepmor
            those around the corner are just waiting for all those who disagree with serfdom to die ...
            so you and I SHOULD live for their evil and for the joy of those close to us ...
            health and long le

            Your golden words, Kamrad! Our task is to live in spite of them and drive an aspen stake into Putinism, otherwise they will ruin the country.
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 30 July 2020 10: 14 New
    31
    Most of the new bibiks bought in our village were bought on credit. Because the people want to ride a new car now, in their youth and maturity, and not when the time comes before the Lord to answer.
    1. your1970
      your1970 30 July 2020 10: 35 New
      -22
      Quote: Dimy4
      bought on credit. Since people want to ride a new car now, in their youth and maturity,

      And where do they pay a loan of 10 a month? That is, they have at least 000 per family per month?
      1. Varyag71
        Varyag71 30 July 2020 11: 12 New
        12
        So what? Is 30000 rubles a lot of money?
        1. your1970
          your1970 30 July 2020 11: 59 New
          -5
          Quote: Varyag71
          So what? Is 30000 rubles a lot of money?

          The question is not greatness or smallness - the question is that for an auto loan 30 is LOWER a person's income bar.
          That is, someone in the family has income more 30 000.
          Minus a communal apartment, minus food for three and we get NEGATIVE the amount of money by the end of the month.
          Further branching:
          - or in a month or two the loan will not be deplorable and the car will be taken away Then this real 30 income per month, or even less. There are such ... A colleague with a salary of 000 bought an iPhone on credit ...
          - the second option - the loan is paid, the car drives ... This means that real the income of such a family is more than 30 and much ... Rather from 50 000 for a family of three
          This is such a reality - and it follows from the presence of credit cars in a family of 3 people. If the person is 4 - the amount of income is even more automatically.
          This applies to more or less large settlements. In the countryside, there may be less, but not much, because of vegetable gardens and subsidiary plots. But this is still the commodity equivalent of the money spent on food.
          I repeat, if the car is on credit, and the bailiffs do not come - 30 in the family Yes... Even if there is no official money ...

          Z. Y. I AM not I am discussing the question that 30 is not enough, it is really little... I am discussing a car loan issue
          1. Roman123567
            Roman123567 30 July 2020 13: 02 New
            +9
            I repeat, if the car is on credit, and the bailiffs do not come - 30 in the family Yes
            well, there is .. so what ?? Let at least 40000 even be in such a family ..
            This is how half of the country survives .. This is what we are talking about .. that there is nothing to be proud of, even if a lot of cars can be seen on the roads ..
          2. Aag
            Aag 31 July 2020 09: 28 New
            +2
            ... "I am not discussing the issue that 30 is not enough, it is really not enough. I am discussing the issue of a car loan" ...
            I never took loans. In the environment there are loans.
            To buy a car, it is now more profitable to take a consumer one, it turns out cheaper.
            How banks assess the solvency of clients is a big question. I have a friend, until recently, in all respects, a homeless person. The passport is expired, the medical policy has never been received, the car, the house on the wife (civilian!) Are written down ... I worked hard all my life. time in the car service, on myself. One loan, the second, - no problem! In the sixth decade I was freaked out, I was nowhere, I saw nothing (except for Mongolia during my years in the SA). I ​​went to rest. To Vietnam. On credit And so three times, until the covid showed up ... Why such details? Yes, in the topic of the article! The answer to the question where are so many cars and tourists.
            For a large part of the population, a car is not even a means of transportation, but a part of the means of production (by the way, in this connection, the question is for the guardians of small business and the growth of the welfare of citizens, how does this correlate with the price of fuel?) I figured it out among familiar motorists. (and heavily used) / credit ...
            As for tourists ... I don't know where how, but flying to Vietnam for two weeks, living there in comfort, is really cheaper and more pleasant (probably)) than spending this time on Lake Baikal.
      2. Arlen
        Arlen 30 July 2020 11: 26 New
        20
        Quote: your1970
        That is, they have at least 30 per family per month?

        For at least a family of three (father, mother and child)
      3. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 30 July 2020 11: 49 New
        31
        Quote: your1970
        And where do they pay a loan of 10 a month? That is, they have at least 000 per family per month?

        Heh heh. When I worked in the Kirov region, we had one pepper in our office. I took out the X-5 on credit. True, he then chopped only pasta with pasta, the doshirak was already a luxury, he went to the New Year's table, but took it. And the motivation, literally - that I am eating no one sees, but when I drive along the road ..... A typical owner of a credit car yes
        Laponka ... Minus 10.000 from family income at 30, but minus communal flat ..... 3/4 of buyers of credit cars stupidly put an end to their health. And they will die before retirement. However, everyone is more than happy with the situation. And banks, to whom the interest is dripping, and auto trades, and the government, will have to pay less and less pensions. The only ones I feel sorry for in this situation are children. The health of which, well-groomed dads and mothers, sacrifice to their widely spread fingers.
        1. your1970
          your1970 30 July 2020 12: 08 New
          -2
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          Minus 10.000 from a family income of 30, but minus a communal apartment ..... 3/4 of buyers of credit cars stupidly put an end to their health.

          The first time is when I'm with you I agree.
          Z. Y. What was the salary of buyer X-5? lol lol
          1. Lannan Shi
            Lannan Shi 30 July 2020 12: 20 New
            15
            Quote: your1970
            Z. Y. What was the salary of buyer X-5?

            Complex issue. We even handed out receipts for salary to the Itrov residents in sealed envelopes. And for the irrepressible interest in other people's income, it was possible to stay without bonuses. And when the bonuses are more than half of the salary .... It hurts. But offhand if, then in the range of 20-30.000 dirty. This not quite adequate citizen bought a car on the security of an apartment.
      4. Roman123567
        Roman123567 30 July 2020 12: 20 New
        +4
        Of course, 30 per family per month is a lot ..))
        1. your1970
          your1970 30 July 2020 12: 39 New
          -3
          Quote: Roman123567
          Of course, 30 per family per month is a lot ..))

          Little Naturally, the issue of loans for cars and the minimum money required for this was discussed.
          And here such people meet too
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          This not quite adequate citizen bought a car on the security of an apartment.
          1. Roman123567
            Roman123567 30 July 2020 13: 00 New
            +3
            Well, what's wrong ??
            1. your1970
              your1970 30 July 2020 15: 33 New
              +1
              A man bought a car from show-offs on the mortgage of an apartment ...
              If tomorrow everyone starts driving the X-5, he will have to buy a jaguar or a Rolls-Royce ...
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              And motivation, literally - that I am eating no one sees, but when I am driving along the way ...
  • rocket757
    rocket757 30 July 2020 10: 17 New
    13
    ... where the overwhelming majority of the population votes for United Russia and

    Amazing nearby! But, the nationwide vote against those who are now there, at the top, quietly ignored will not work!
    There at the top, they are not fools sitting, manipulating everyone and everything, they know how. On trifles they will screw everything up as they need, but something huge, they will not be able to hold back. The fact is that there is simply NO huge thing in the country!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • kosopooz77
    kosopooz77 30 July 2020 10: 25 New
    31
    - Experts note a steady growth in real incomes of the population.
    - Vladimir Vladimirovich, but people claim that their incomes are constantly decreasing.
    - Yes, but people are not specialists ...
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 30 July 2020 10: 29 New
      -13
      In rubles, income is growing slowly .... housing prices and food in rubles .... so that there is still some positive shift.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 30 July 2020 10: 53 New
        -6
        Quote: Zaurbek
        In rubles, income is growing slowly .... housing prices and food in rubles .... so that there is still some positive shift.

        Man is such a creature of God that if he feels bad, he says "bad", if he feels better, he still says "bad". Well, there can be no such thing for a person to be "good", it doesn't matter where this or that will be "bad". But in truth, what is BAD, we either do not realize, or do not want to know.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 30 July 2020 10: 59 New
          -9
          I mentioned the positive aspects .... if further all our goods are in rubles, then no one will suffer from the depreciation.
          1. Harry cuper
            Harry cuper 30 July 2020 12: 02 New
            16
            Stop it, Zaurbek. You don't seem to have a completely beaten off head. There is a hidden "dollar" in almost every domestic product, Andrei Nikolayevich wrote about this, although it has long been known without AN. And you tightened the bagpipes about the "ruble". Be ashamed
            1. Mishka78
              Mishka78 30 July 2020 12: 58 New
              10
              Exactly. I already wrote. According to Rosstat, we have imported:
              In oil and gas equipment 50 percent. In mechanical engineering for the food and processing industries, 80 percent. In road construction equipment, over 75 percent. Machine tool 70 percent. Civil electronics 80 percent.
              In light industry, according to various estimates, 65-80 percent.
              Shoes 80. Goods for children - more than 80. Furniture 50 percent. Pharmaceuticals - more than 70 percent, medical devices - 80. Musical instruments - 90. Sports equipment and goods - 90 percent. Sowing crops, animal feed, etc. - more than 60 percent.
              This is all absolutely open data published by Rosstat.

              Well, what kind of ruble zone and other mantras are we talking about?
            2. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 30 July 2020 20: 40 New
              0
              It exists .... but% is different everywhere.
            3. Umalta
              Umalta 31 July 2020 03: 14 New
              +2
              It is impossible to disagree with you, moreover, our ruble is like an occupation mark in World War II, and our Central Bank is not subordinate to the government of the Russian Federation and in place with it fulfills the instructions of the IMF. Moreover, the issue of rubles is strictly tied to foreign exchange earnings in US dollars and should not exceed a certain percentage. Considering all this, we will most likely throw off social networks from the budget and a drop in salary in real purchasing power.
          2. Alf
            Alf 30 July 2020 18: 47 New
            +5
            Quote: Zaurbek
            if further all our goods are in rubles

            Who will let him?
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 30 July 2020 11: 15 New
        17
        Quote: Zaurbek
        In rubles, income is growing slowly ...

        For the last 7 years he worked in a sanatorium, which belongs to a very state structure. And during this time, the salary, then fell, then rose a little, but never reached the level that I received at the beginning when I got a job. In the end, the salary was cut and the half-time was taken away, which was before that. He quit (thank God, he managed to work up to retirement).
        1. Mishka78
          Mishka78 30 July 2020 13: 02 New
          +9
          If to compare with 2008, then the salary in rubles I get 2 times more, but in dollars it is almost 2 times less. And this, as the author writes, does not take into account dollar inflation, which is also about 2% per year, which means that over 12 years it is -20%.
      3. mdsr
        mdsr 30 July 2020 11: 21 New
        20
        Quote: Zaurbek
        In rubles, income is growing slowly .... housing prices and food in rubles .... so that there is still some positive shift.

        Zaur, look around in your apartment, what's Russian? Plastic windows are made in Russia, but from which countries' components and on which country's equipment? Next: wallpaper, tiles, lamps, flooring, material and door components, p.e. heating pipes, hot water supply and cold water supply, etc. Walls: insulation, paints, equipment for the production of bricks, concrete, wood products from which country? Almost all equipment and tools used in construction are imported or assembled in Russia from imported components! The cost of many other materials and goods is affected by the exchange rate of the ruble against the dollar.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 30 July 2020 11: 35 New
          -12
          And nevertheless, housing in rubles, for which there is a mortgage in rubles with a normal% ... the main products are also in rubles. If you remember the default of 98, then everything was in dollars. And square meters and legs and meat.
          1. Roman123567
            Roman123567 30 July 2020 12: 25 New
            +7
            If you remember the default of 98,

            Why remember this ??
            Think better about the standard of living in Denmark ..
            Also remember about the amount of resources in our country ..
            1. your1970
              your1970 30 July 2020 12: 48 New
              -10
              Quote: Roman123567
              Think better about the standard of living in Denmark ..

              Oh yeah! Tax FROM 50%, tax on fat, tax on athletes, stamp duty and so on little things ...
              And taxes are paid by 100% of the population, this is not ours, "I would pay, but they steal." There is an ordnung with a payment ...
              And here a demonic cloud of the population does not pay real estate tax and transport tax ...
              Tax gives only 20% of the budget !!!! I would have watched as Denmark blossomed - with 20% of its budget
              Z. Y. Are you ready to pay 100-000 direct taxes from 65 salaries ??? !!!
              1. Roman123567
                Roman123567 30 July 2020 13: 08 New
                +8
                Taxes FROM 50%
                At least 150 .. The main thing is the standard of living !!
                Take any tax from me, but so that I, with an average salary, have the opportunity to leave 300 bucks in Turkey once a month for a week ..

                And taxes are paid by 100% of the population
                And ?? Is it bad?? You forgot to add that people like Sechin pay more there ..

                Looked would I bloomed like Denmark - with 20% of my budget
                And who is in this would to blame ?? Maybe me??

                Are you ready to pay 100-000 direct taxes from 65 salaries ??? !!!
                Yes, it's easy .. it depends how much bread will cost .. gasoline, gas .. rest abroad and so on ..
                Using the example of Denmark, I think it is not worth repeating that the residents have more funds in their hands than we do .. and this is just the main thing, and not the order of the numbers itself ..
                1. your1970
                  your1970 30 July 2020 14: 03 New
                  -12
                  The average salary in Denmark is about 2700 euros. Minus half of taxes - I will not even exchange for a trifle such as a tax on fat (16 CZK per kg of fat)
                  Remains 1300 euros, from which we deduct the cost of a kindergarten for a child - 700 euros per month
                  Today's course
                  1 euro = 7, 43 Danish kroner
                  In total, you still have ... 600 euros !!!!!!!
                  Quote: Roman123567
                  so that I, with an average salary, have the opportunity to leave 300 bucks in Turkey once a month for a week ..

                  That's just 300 bucks once a month in Turkey and you can leave ..... Well, if you live in a box and eat a charity - I'm the cost of housing and communal services, clothes, and food - didn't subtract from the rest of your salary.

                  It is quite enough that refugees from Africa, Syria, Libya do not flee to this country, in general ...
                  In Germany, Sweden, France, some scumbags even agree to Poland, but they don't flee to Denmark. It's too good there, apparently ..........
                  1. Lannan Shi
                    Lannan Shi 30 July 2020 15: 37 New
                    14
                    Quote: your1970
                    The average salary in Denmark is about 2700 euros. Minus half taxes

                    Oha, oha. With an average Danish salary, you will pay an income tax of 6.7%. They have a kind of progressive taxation system, not regressive like ours. There are, of course, other taxes on salary, but in general, with the average Danish salary you will pay, God forbid, 15% of taxes, against our 33%.
                    Do not forget that we also have contributions to funds. Which are exactly taxes, just named a little differently. And do not argue that this is not a tax. When you talk about Danish 55%, in addition to income, you add 6 more taxes and fees to the same heap. And you are not in the least embarrassed that the word income does not appear there even once, and the tax is in 3 cases out of 6. The same applies to the United States and most EU countries. And only to the Russian Federation such a method of calculation for some reason we do not apply .. if you please, be cunning. Yeah.
                    So that's it. A Dane living on an average salary will receive 2200-2300 euros. Russians - 500 if you believe the office figures, or 300-350 if you study the statistics personally. By the way. The money spent on the same Danish kindergarten is not taxed, allowing yourself to save quite decently. There, almost everything related to children is deducted. For in the country they are really fighting for demography, and they do not promise to re-promise what was promised. And by the way, 700 is a nursery and not a kindergarten. Kindergarten - 200-250.
                    Total minus taxes minus kindergarten, the Dane will have more than 2000 euros, we have - 300 or 450. It depends on what to believe, officer. PF and tax data, or non-binding tryndezh from the screen. But for anyone, that 300 euros, that 450 is many times worse than 2000. Despite the fact that the prices of products are not very different. Oh yes. Now I'm talking about products, and not about calorie-containing surrogates, which have only names in common with products. Yes, there is something in Denmark that costs a couple of times more than ours, and there is something that costs 1.5-2 times cheaper. The same cheese for example. And the arithmetic mean, if it is more expensive than ours, is by interest and not several times.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 30 July 2020 16: 01 New
                      -9
                      Quote: Lannan Shi
                      With an average Danish salary, you will pay an income tax of 6.7%.

                      With income less than 50 kroons - 000 euros for YEAR!!!!! And if you have more per crown, then your rate is higher and much
                      You pay excise taxes as in the Russian Federation, indirect VAT also concerns you, the tax on sacred fat, cigarettes at 8 euros per pack - too,
                      Repeat
                      Everything is bad in Russia (and I almost agree!)
                      Everything is fine in Denmark.
                      But refugees from Syria, Libya and other Africa do not run here or there ...
                      To Germany and Sweden with great pleasure, to Austria already less ...
                      Even in Poland there are individual applicants ...
                      There are no volunteers in the Russian Federation and Denmark
                      1. Lannan Shi
                        Lannan Shi 30 July 2020 16: 40 New
                        +9
                        Quote: your1970
                        With income less than 50 kroons - 000 euros per YEAR !!!!!

                        From 410 thousand kroons, 15% starts. Or almost 45 thousand euros. Yeah.
                        And by the way. The average in Danny is not 2700, but 5200. Once again I was convinced that the numbers must be personally checked, and not just take their word for it. And 2700, this is already clean, on hand, on average. True about 5 years ago. And in 2019 - 3100. Which is 6-10 times more than ours. yes
                        Quote: your1970
                        You pay excise taxes as in the Russian Federation, indirect VAT also concerns you, the tax on sacred fat, cigarettes at 8 euros per pack - too,

                        So what's next? I kind of don't care about the size of VAT and excise taxes, I'm interested in the final prices. They are in Denmark well, let them be 1 / 4-1 / 3 higher than ours. Cigarettes? I periodically buy my husband, in the course of prices, in 2008 I took about 0.5 per pack, this morning almost 2. At such a rate, Denmark will catch up by 2030. For the price of cigarettes. Salary ... Not in this life.
                        Quote: your1970
                        But refugees from Syria, Libya and other Africa do not run here or there ...

                        It's kind of lazy for me to study Danish migration legislation. Do not run if, then there is no freebie. And how does this prove the poverty of the Danes, allegedly living on 700 euros? And they ran back to us ... The salaries sank so that even the Uzbeks are not very eager to join us.
                      2. your1970
                        your1970 30 July 2020 20: 04 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        I kind of don't care about the size of VAT and excise taxes, I'm interested in the final prices.

                        Nevertheless, with us you cram them into the paid - and with the Danes - no
                        Quote: Lannan Shi
                        против our 33%.
                        Do not forget that we also have contributions to funds. Which are exactly taxes, just named a little differently... And do not argue that this is not a tax.

                        Double standards - we consider everything - and Danes only with the word "income", not ?? !!

                        Well, Sweden would be cited as an example - where there are really elements of socialism, otherwise Denmark ...

                        Z. s. In any case, our country is worse - than in Denmark and Sweden ...
                      3. Lannan Shi
                        Lannan Shi 30 July 2020 21: 59 New
                        +8
                        Quote: your1970
                        nevertheless, with us you cram them into the paid, but with the Danes, no

                        In the dialogue with you, I did not touch on VAT at all. But if you like ... On the average salary we have 33% direct and at least 20% VAT. Total 53. The average salary in Denmark is around 15% direct and 25% VAT. total 40. As if not in our favor the comparison.
                        Quote: your1970
                        Double standards - we consider everything - and Danes only with the word "income", not ?? !!

                        Nope. The Danes have a personal income, before the turn of 410 or 440 thousand crowns (I don't remember exactly) generally less than 7%. Another 8 plus a pledge on the remaining 6. This is for amounts over 440 income 15, and the rest are growing. There is generally only 1 non-progressive tax. Church - 1%. And even then ... In fact, it is voluntary. You believe - pay. No, no, no.
                        Quote: your1970
                        Well, Sweden would be cited as an example - where there are really elements of socialism, otherwise Denmark ...

                        Sweden is a widely publicized model. Denmark is not inferior in general. Sweden's ginny index is 25, Denmark's 28. Only the information is 7 years old. And if in Denmark the index fell in recent years, then in Sweden it grew.
                        The main problem of Russia is in the wild gap in the level of income, and the constant fall of this level among 9 decile groups. This is where the dog is buried. For at least 6 years, incomes, real, are falling for 90% of the population, and, accordingly, demand is falling in general. And the income growth of the latter group, in principle, is not able to compensate for this drop. The internal market is slowly but shrinking. This is noticeable in the example of wheat. Production growth lags behind export growth. Do you understand? Those. growth is not only due to that. that they began to grow more, but also due to the fact that they began to eat less. But this is wheat, a commodity with a high export potential. With the export of services, such as a hairdresser, to whom less often they began to have their hair cut, everything is much more complicated. And in general, we produce goods and services that are in demand on the world market, not to say that much.
                        And in general. Such a wild income gap like ours is a verdict for the economy. Proven by world practice. The country, sooner or later, turns into a banana republic, sharpened for the export of 1-2-5 items of goods, and a near-zero capacity of the domestic market. And with a decrease in prices for those same positions, it collapses. Even China, which 20 years ago was completely and completely imprisoned for export, is currently engaged in the development of the domestic market.
                        The only way to combat this is to redistribute income from the 10th decile to the first nine. This is what all the world's leading economies are doing. Whether the liberal usa and the eurozone, or even the communist china. And only we have our own path. Not a progressive, and not even flat, but a regressive tax scale. Not stimulating the domestic market, but killing it. Not an increase in the income of the first 9 groups, but an increase in taxes on them, and, accordingly, a decrease in demand. We are observing the results. After the fall in oil prices, below 75-80, development is absent a little more than at all.
                  2. Aag
                    Aag 31 July 2020 09: 42 New
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    Quote: Lannan Shi
                    With an average Danish salary, you will pay an income tax of 6.7%.

                    With income less than 50 kroons - 000 euros for YEAR!!!!! And if you have more per crown, then your rate is higher and much
                    You pay excise taxes as in the Russian Federation, indirect VAT also concerns you, the tax on sacred fat, cigarettes at 8 euros per pack - too,
                    Repeat
                    Everything is bad in Russia (and I almost agree!)
                    Everything is fine in Denmark.
                    But refugees from Syria, Libya and other Africa do not run here or there ...
                    To Germany and Sweden with great pleasure, to Austria already less ...
                    Even in Poland there are individual applicants ...
                    There are no volunteers in the Russian Federation and Denmark

                    Well, well, convinced, let's compare with Germany, Sweden ...))
                  3. your1970
                    your1970 31 July 2020 12: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: AAG

                    Well, well, convinced, let's compare with Germany, Sweden ...))
                    Let's
                    Quote: your1970
                    Z. s. In any case, our country is worse - than in Denmark and Sweden ...

                    Your opinion?
              2. sheet
                sheet 31 July 2020 07: 35 New
                0
                "There are, of course, other taxes on salary, but in general, with the average Danish salary, you will pay, God forbid, 15% of taxes, against our 33%."
                From 120 thousand Danish kronor per year, the tax is 30 thousand kronor. (Copenhagen)
                https://www.nordisketax.net/main.asp?url=files/dan/sve/i12.asp
                By the way, pensioners pay taxes on pensions too.
        2. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 30 July 2020 13: 11 New
          -2
          With us you get 50000r - 6.5 personal income tax and 18tr pays for you by the company. But we must also take into account that in Denmark you get it for free and that we pay for it.
  • AU Ivanov.
    AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 11: 38 New
    -19
    Almost everything is Russian, except for the lamps - they are Chinese. Wallpaper, tiles - ours, heaters from TechnoNIKOL, doors, plumbing, pipes - made in Russia. Even the parquet board is ours.
    1. Mishka78
      Mishka78 30 July 2020 13: 09 New
      +7
      For parquet, for example:
      https://parketme.ru/blog/analitika/rejting-parketnoj-doski-20182019-goda-top-10-proizvoditelej-parketnoj-doski/
      Who is ours there?
      And 90% of everything on which the nameplate is made in Russia = foreign equipment for production +, as a rule, foreign materials and components.
  • your1970
    your1970 30 July 2020 12: 20 New
    -14
    Quote: mdsr
    wallpaper, tiles

    Quote: mdsr
    heaters, paints

    Long ago they were Russian, at most Belarusian. You waved your finger to the sky ..
    After the crisis of 2008, it became unprofitable to import construction imports due to the growth of the dollar
    Almost everything is made here a long time ago ...
    Z. Y. The slogan “imported means the best!” Has not been canceled in the minds of our citizens. Therefore, they write in imported letters lol lol
    "French hairdresser Sidorov"
    1. Alf
      Alf 30 July 2020 18: 55 New
      +5
      Quote: your1970
      After the crisis of 2008, it became unprofitable to import construction imports due to the growth of the dollar

      Almost all televisions are now assembled in Kaliningrad, but the ambush-ALL matrices are imported, they are made in Korea, and a TV without a screen is like a wedding night without a bride. And all the electronic stuffing is also from there. Open the back wall and find at least one microcircuit with the inscription Angstrem and Made in Russia.
      1. your1970
        your1970 30 July 2020 19: 31 New
        -4
        Quote: Alf
        TV sets

        And I argued for TV sets?????
        !!!!!!!!!! Won what ...
        Quote: your1970
        import TVs building

        When will you learn how to read your opponents ...
        At least read !!!!!!!
        1. Alf
          Alf 30 July 2020 19: 34 New
          +4
          And you ask where the cement is brought to Russia from?
          1. your1970
            your1970 30 July 2020 22: 43 New
            -1
            They drove to Sochi - from Turkey and China. And then only because ours could not cope, imports were not cheaper.
            Everything after that is "Import" from the left cement factories, packed in anything you like, bags for every taste and color
            Even glass from China, which cost three times cheaper than ours, has not been carried for a long time
    2. Aag
      Aag 31 July 2020 10: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: your1970
      Quote: mdsr
      wallpaper, tiles

      Quote: mdsr
      heaters, paints

      Long ago they were Russian, at most Belarusian. You waved your finger to the sky ..
      After the crisis of 2008, it became unprofitable to import construction imports due to the growth of the dollar
      Almost everything is made here a long time ago ...
      Z. Y. The slogan “imported means the best!” Has not been canceled in the minds of our citizens. Therefore, they write in imported letters lol lol
      "French hairdresser Sidorov"

      I have to disappoint you. Even what is produced here, in the Russian Federation, sometimes brings more profit to our "partners", that is, to potential opponents. As an example, electricity, thanks to Deripaska ... Check out the percentage of foreign shareholders throughout the Angarsk power plant cascade. ..
      1. your1970
        your1970 31 July 2020 12: 27 New
        0
        Another......
        Discussed IMPORT OF BUILDING MATERIALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        No, electricity dragged in ...
  • Roman123567
    Roman123567 30 July 2020 12: 24 New
    17
    .............
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 30 July 2020 10: 30 New
    19
    YES, in the old days they would have been repressed. For lies, show, separation from the people.

    Moreover, a foreign agent.
    1. depressant
      depressant 30 July 2020 12: 04 New
      +8
      Yeah. As some Chingachgook would say: "The Talking Mustaches are lying to us!"
  • Cresta999
    Cresta999 30 July 2020 10: 33 New
    25
    I'm not complaining about my life. But every time you watch the next appeal, explanation, etc. from our leaders, the question arises: "maybe I live in the wrong Russia" ?! Where did we get such high average salary in our country ?! Maybe I pay my employees a little ?! I start to ask my colleagues. It turns out that I have good salaries in the city. Then it turns out that the problem is not with me? I no longer watch all these performances, straight lines, etc. So it's not long to get into a fool.
    1. your1970
      your1970 30 July 2020 12: 51 New
      -5
      Quote: Cresta999
      Maybe I pay my employees a little ?!

      If workers don't run away from you and you don't put anyone on a chain for the night, then you have an average salary in the region ..
      Satisfying the employee completely.
      1. your1970
        your1970 30 July 2020 16: 29 New
        0
        We have a lime plant. They always have vacancies for drivers at KraZ
        Salary 16 ....
        The peasants come when they need to turn over - for a month or two and leave ...
        Vacancies have been hanging for 20 years - apparently the owners consider such a salary to be sufficient ...
        And this is their problem, personal, employees - absolutely all the same, they do not go there to work at all.

        Z. Y. It is also necessary to carry a lot of firing furnaces far enough (several km) ...
      2. Alf
        Alf 30 July 2020 18: 56 New
        +7
        Quote: your1970
        If workers don't run away from you and you don't put anyone on a chain for the night, then you have an average salary in the region ..
        Satisfying the employee completely.

        People just have nowhere to go.
        1. your1970
          your1970 30 July 2020 19: 40 New
          -2
          Quote: Alf
          Quote: your1970
          If workers don't run away from you and you don't put anyone on a chain for the night, then you have an average salary in the region ..
          Satisfying the employee completely.

          People just have nowhere to go.

          We also have nowhere to go - however, vacancies have been hanging for a long time for drivers at KraZy ... There are no people willing to work hard and dusty ...

          Now, for a 15 ruble salary, keep a hard worker if a) there is no need to work or b) they do not have a profession, or c) the age when they no longer take anywhere and have to sit until retirement.

          In all other cases, they turn around and leave immediately
  • Simon schempp
    Simon schempp 30 July 2020 10: 37 New
    20

    That is why you took away Lipchanin's bread?
    He had to come himself and throw propaganda pictures "with clogged courtyards", "queues for iPhones", and leftist statistics like "we began to live 90 times better than in the 100000s."
    The whole man was broken off.)
  • Boris55
    Boris55 30 July 2020 10: 39 New
    -1
    It is not wages and other payments that need to be raised, but prices should be reduced, but this is a completely different economy under a different social system.
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 30 July 2020 10: 50 New
      16
      Quote: Boris55
      It is not wages and other payments that need to be raised, but prices should be reduced, but this is a completely different economy under a different social system.

      And where is Putinism, Borya? wink
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 30 July 2020 10: 55 New
        -22
        Quote: Stroporez
        And where is Putinism, Borya?

        And he leads just there, not in a revolutionary way, but in an evolutionary way. Does what he can, but maybe not so much. The last vote showed that the people were split almost in sex ... As Marx used to say: "Until the idea takes hold of the masses, it is dead," and the masses, somehow, do not really crave the power of the workers and peasants - they pulled their lace panties over their heads and are satisfied .. ...
        1. Arlen
          Arlen 30 July 2020 11: 39 New
          30
          Quote: Boris55
          And he leads just there

          Where to go? Into the bright neo-feudal future?
          Quote: Boris55
          The last vote showed that the people are split almost in half

          Judging by the comments on the site, we are in a civil war. Yours are ready to bleed everyone who is not with you.
          Lenin "Imperialism as the Highest Stage of Capitalism" Chapter IV Export of Capital (I am writing with abbreviations)
          Capitalism is commodity production at the highest stage of its development, when labor power also becomes a commodity ...
          ... if capitalism could develop agriculture, which is now terribly lagging behind industry everywhere, if it could raise the living standards of the masses of the population, which everywhere, despite the dizzying technical progress, half-starved and beggarly, then there could not be an excess of capital be out of the question ...
          As long as capitalism remains capitalism, the surplus of capital is used not to raise the standard of living of the masses in a given country, for this would be a decrease in the profits of the capitalists, but to increase profits by exporting capital abroad ...

          Down with capitalism! soldier
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 30 July 2020 11: 42 New
            -16
            Quote: Arlen
            Where to go? Into the bright neo-feudal future?

            With the adoption of Putin's amendment to the Constitution on the "residency qualification", feudalism has already ended, they will no longer be able to pass on their chair by inheritance because of the education and residence of their offspring over the hill.

            Quote: Arlen
            Yours are ready to bleed everyone who is not with you.

            Blood is allowed during revolution, but I call for evolution.
            1. Arlen
              Arlen 30 July 2020 11: 54 New
              19
              Quote: Boris55
              I call for evolution

              Stalin "Anarchism or Socialism":
              The movement is evolutionary when progressive elements spontaneously continue their daily work and make small, quantitative, changes to the old orders.
              The movement is revolutionary, when the same elements are united, imbued with a single idea and rush against the enemy camp in order to fundamentally destroy the old order and bring into life qualitative changes and establish new orders.
              Evolution prepares the revolution and creates the ground for it, and the revolution completes the evolution and contributes to its further work.
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 30 July 2020 12: 01 New
                -13
                Quote: Arlen
                Evolution prepares the revolution and creates the ground for it, and the revolution completes the evolution and contributes to its further work.

                I am not going to argue with Stalin - on my part it would be overwhelming arrogance. Stalin lived in the paradigm of Glossism and his statement at that time was absolutely correct.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 30 July 2020 19: 00 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Boris55
                  and his statement at that time was absolutely correct.

                  It is still not out of date at all.
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 31 July 2020 07: 58 New
                    0
                    Quote: Alf
                    It is still not out of date at all.

                    Read Stalin's 1952 Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR, where he openly opposed obscurantism:

                    "I think that our economists should put an end to this discrepancy between the old concepts and the new state of affairs in our socialist country, replacing the old concepts with new ones corresponding to the new situation. We could tolerate this discrepancy until a certain time, but now the time has come when we must finally, eliminate this inconsistency. "
                    1. Revival
                      Revival 2 August 2020 00: 29 New
                      0
                      This passage, as you cited it, may speak of just the opposite.
                      And in itself does not in any way confirm your thought
                  2. Aag
                    Aag 31 July 2020 10: 19 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Alf
                    Quote: Boris55
                    and his statement at that time was absolutely correct.

                    It is still not out of date at all.

                    Let me add.
                    That is why they diligently bury, discredit, distort the theory of Marxism-Leninism (not an adept), that it gives an understanding of where we are all being led, pulled, driven ...
        2. Revival
          Revival 2 August 2020 00: 25 New
          0
          laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing
          Gorgeous! And what a turn!
    2. Liam
      Liam 30 July 2020 11: 29 New
      +5
      Quote: Boris55
      It is not wages and other payments that need to be raised, but prices should be reduced, but this is a completely different economy under a different social system.

      Let's say you work in a bakery. Selling a loaf for 25 rubles. Tomorrow your dream of lowering prices has come true and you are selling a loaf for 15 rubles.
      Choose the most realistic scenario for yourself with your salary after that.
      1. will grow
      2. will not change.
      3 Will fall
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 30 July 2020 11: 40 New
        -7
        Quote: Liam
        Choose the most realistic option yourself

        There is such a surplus product. So for this surplus product you can print money or lower prices.

        Regarding your example. If earlier the baker used only manual labor, then his productivity was low. The price for its products is set at 25 kopecks. By introducing machines into production, the output increased. Taking into account the costs of modernization, the price of products can be painlessly reduced to 15 kopecks. With the introduction of robotization, it can be reduced to 5 kopecks.

        Of course, this is just a rough example of price reduction, which was followed by the Stalinist USSR.

        When prices go down, the purchasing power of the population grows.
        As wages rise, inflation rises, the rich get richer.

        I choose the Stalinist version of the economy, when prices were reduced every year and every citizen of the country understood that the better he worked, the higher the price reduction would be. The better life will be.
        1. Aag
          Aag 31 July 2020 10: 45 New
          +2
          [Quote] [/ quote]
          You did not take into account that we have undercapitalism, some kind of neo-feudalism with taxism))).
          By introducing work, you impose additional taxes on yourself. Isn't that why (including) we do not have normal production facilities in the required quantity? By complicating technological chains (without which a product with high added value is not possible), you are progressively burdened with taxes, up to loss of profitability. ..
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 31 July 2020 10: 52 New
            +1
            Quote: AAG
            we do not have normal production facilities in the required quantity?

            Instead of robotizing production, which would reduce the retirement age, extend the maternity time, etc., the IMF, with its instructions to raise the retirement age, practically blocked access to the introduction of high technologies ... If they are introduced, then where to do with people? To drive them out into the street would be the suicide of the authorities, all this mass will sweep away any power.
    3. Alf
      Alf 30 July 2020 18: 58 New
      +5
      Quote: Boris55
      It is not wages and other payments that need to be raised, but prices should be reduced, but this is a completely different economy under a different social system.

      Boris, you changed your shoes so dramatically ... Who of you is working under your nickname today?
      By the way, for a long time you haven't mentioned that Putin has nothing to do with it, I wonder why?
  • SOVIET UNION 2
    SOVIET UNION 2 30 July 2020 10: 41 New
    21
    Interesting article! It can only be added that the standard of living can be considered by paying for housing and communal services. How many (people received) subsidies for housing were in 2000 and now. How much was paid for housing then and now in relation to salary. Why are housing and communal services striving for one minimum wage? There are of course regions where they pay for housing and 3 thousand maximum! About the auto theme has already been voiced more than once. The number of cars per capita has grown! But this does not mean that there were no cars in the Union! Look how many abandoned GSK are around! Only then they were not in the yards, but in the garages. But the number has grown ?! The standard of living has increased ?! Russia is in 54th place in the number of cars per capita. Belarus 51. Latvia 47. Slovakia 41. Argentina 44. Lithuania 36. England 35. Greece 31. Estonia 20. Switzerland 19. Italy 10. USA 3. San Marino 1st place! Who drove the growth in the number of cars? Import companies! But they didn't build a road for us! Disorder however!
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 10: 53 New
      -20
      There were no cars in the Union - there were buckets with bolts. Rotting in the open - hence the GSK. It was also tight with car services - so the garage. To buy a car, and at a horse's price, people stood in line, in a long line, by itself he blew dust particles off his swallow. Who needs this garage now?
      1. Livonetc
        Livonetc 30 July 2020 11: 15 New
        +8
        My father had mostly Cossacks.
        We stood in the open air.
        Not rusted.
        It should be noted, of course, that we did not drive in the winter, and there were very few reagents on the roads then.
        Cars rotted just in garages.
        Especially if the garage had no ventilation.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 11: 18 New
          -5
          I had both Shokha and Niva. Without anticorrosive, nowhere. And yes: a garage for DIY repairs. And they stole and took off their shoes with terrible force.
          1. your1970
            your1970 30 July 2020 22: 48 New
            +1
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            And they stole and took off their shoes with terrible force.

            There is a photo of Vysotsky with a Mercedes in the background - he stands with his elbows, and there are wipers in his hand ... Even he had to take them off - so as not to be stolen ...
            1. Aag
              Aag 31 July 2020 10: 56 New
              0
              Quote: your1970
              Quote: AS Ivanov.
              And they stole and took off their shoes with terrible force.

              There is a photo of Vysotsky with a Mercedes in the background - he stands with his elbows, and there are wipers in his hand ... Even he had to take them off - so as not to be stolen ...

              I didn’t want to focus attention, but there are also wiper blades on the car ... repeat
              1. your1970
                your1970 31 July 2020 12: 29 New
                0
                So spare or else got it somewhere by pull
        2. Harry cuper
          Harry cuper 30 July 2020 12: 10 New
          +5
          They are in garages and rot. Though "Cossacks", even "Mercedes". Just at different speeds
      2. Mishka78
        Mishka78 30 July 2020 13: 13 New
        11
        Dada, and there was no Internet in every house and satellite TV!
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 13: 19 New
          -17
          There were cars in developed countries. In the scoop - no. And the Internet would appear in the Union very soon. With censorship and red firewall. And satellite TV would hardly have appeared - for a Soviet person, three channels are enough.
          1. Mishka78
            Mishka78 30 July 2020 13: 40 New
            12
            Exactly. After all, this is how the unfortunate Chinese live :) With censorship, firewall, and without TV :)
            And we have neither censorship on TV (all our federal channels have told about the protests in Khabarovsk, right?), Nor Roskomnadzor (which blocks everything except the telegram), nor 20 idiotic obligatory channels on TV .. I'm all right listed? :)
            Andrey, are you insane or just at work?
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 13: 55 New
              -15
              I have cable TV. Channels from politics and economics to sports and science. 142 channels for every taste. The RBK channel covered in detail the Khabarovsk gangway. The Chinese have the Great Chinese Firewall, in order to bypass it, certain knowledge is required. Everyone knows how Roskomnadzor blocks it - a primary school student easily bypasses blocking - they are just for show, like we are working. If you want to compare with someone, then compare with the DPRK - there is its own Internet and from every iron the speeches of dear Kim Jong Il are pouring. Well, everything is like we have 40 years ago.
            2. akunin
              akunin 30 July 2020 14: 38 New
              +6
              Quote: Mishka78
              With censorship, firewall, and no TV :)

              TV 62 free government channels, censorship? (do we have censorship?) on any phone (even a Chinese manufacturer put a VPN server and voila (or "opera" with a VPN) there is a native Chinese, for the Chinese, on a Chinese VPN server (free, by the author not shot), but there is no spring law.
          2. Alf
            Alf 30 July 2020 19: 03 New
            +5
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            And satellite TV would hardly have appeared - for a Soviet person, three channels are enough.

            From 100 cable channels, I now have 16 left, and even then, more than half are film, the rest are slag for imbecillas.
        2. Taga
          Taga 30 July 2020 17: 57 New
          +3
          Most importantly, there was NOT ANY iPhone!
      3. SOVIET UNION 2
        SOVIET UNION 2 30 July 2020 16: 18 New
        +5
        If today loans are taken for the purchase of a car and then pay off for years, is it not a queue? And if a BMW or Lexus to buy a hard worker? So cars have not become more affordable. You buy new ones today with a credit margin. The loan goes up to 50% of the cost. As for the reliability, this is probably for the owners of the cars. We have over there, and a person's Moskvich-407 is still on the move, and Muscovites 408, 412 are still walking. and even 40 and 41 in considerable quantities. So are the people watching them? The police are still full of sevens, nines, ten and prior. Sevens seem to be the most. Who's watching them? Not a single Vesta has appeared in the police yet. But the new UAZs for PPS. Here are the buckets with bolts! And where are our vaunted foreign cars? But they are not! They will die on our roads and ruin the budget! It is enough to see how they drive along our roads. You can go 60-80, but he barely crawls in his foreign car. And he can't go fast because his tires are low-profile! It quickly makes its way on asphalt bumps, however! True, this year we have a miracle barrel with a trunk from which bitumen is poured into the pits, and then it is covered with crumbs. Apparently our management is tired of repairing their expensive foreign cars and decided to patch up the roads a little. But in courtyards and in the private sector the roads are like the Paris-Dakar rally!
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 16: 26 New
          -5
          Loans? This is not a queue - it is here and now. There is no need to save or wait for the cherished postcard to arrive.
          1. SOVIET UNION 2
            SOVIET UNION 2 30 July 2020 16: 42 New
            +7
            Loans are just the turn and overpayment! Why can't you save up today if life has become so good? Or a bad life when you can save, and a good life when you cannot save?
          2. Alf
            Alf 30 July 2020 19: 06 New
            +4
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            There is no need to save or wait for the cherished postcard to arrive.

            Exactly. But when I bought a car in the USSR, I knew that from the moment the money was returned, it was mine, and now, after the money taken from the bank was returned, I know that it was a bank for 5-7 years, I could not give a loan, look after not his car.
          3. Revival
            Revival 2 August 2020 00: 38 New
            +1
            The loan is just a "queue", a bunch of claims from banks to take away cars from those who have not paid.
            In the USSR there is a queue of those who have money, in Russia there is a queue of those without money (credit).
        2. your1970
          your1970 30 July 2020 23: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
          If today loans are taken for the purchase of a car and then pay off for years, is it not a queue?

          No, it's NOT queue!!!!
          The queue is when my grandfather, a disabled war veteran, stood in line for 3 years, my father wanted Niva, my grandfather wanted Moskvich 412 ..... And a postcard came to bright orange 2102 ....
          If you want, take a postcard, if you don't want to, wait another 3 years ..... Bought, where to go ...

          Now imagine - you come now buy a black BMW on credit - and they tell you - you buy a pink Matiz !!! You do not want??? Then come back in 3 years, but we do not know which car you will get then ... maybe it will be Tavria ...
      4. Aag
        Aag 31 July 2020 10: 49 New
        +2
        "Who needs this garage now?"
        Everywhere in different ways. Sometimes a garage, parking space, more expensive than a car.
  • Earthshaker
    Earthshaker 30 July 2020 10: 46 New
    11
    The State Department is to blame, it is obvious to everyone ... no.
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 30 July 2020 10: 54 New
    11
    Let's start with the average wage. Under Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, she grew by leaps and bounds. In 2000, the average salary in the Russian Federation was 2 rubles, but in 223 it was already 2019 rubles!

    True, prices also grew like super-yeast. In 2000, a bucket of potatoes (10 kg) cost 40 rubles, and in the winter of 2019-2020 already 60 rubles (per kg) ...
    - Can you count? We capture one ship - you will have 10 shares. Let's capture another - already twenty. And if we capture the fourth?
    - Forty...

    © Three heroes and the sea king
  • Victorio
    Victorio 30 July 2020 11: 00 New
    -3
    somewhere came across material that non-productive costs in the Russian Federation, on average, 2-3 times higher in comparison. it would not hurt everywhere and everyone to try to do at least something in this direction, gigantic funds go away because of this. and instead, the search for the right / wrong, the struggle for places and doing nothing.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      30 July 2020 16: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: Victorio
      somewhere came across material that non-productive costs in the Russian Federation, on average, are 2-3 times higher in comparison

      And I came across an Italian director who came to teach us about life, and almost went crazy when it turned out that we were doing seismic exploration using imported equipment and according to the requirements corresponding to import standards, but for a price 4 times lower than his excellent company .... By the way, he quickly ran away
      1. Harry cuper
        Harry cuper 30 July 2020 18: 01 New
        +3
        AN, I am not an economist, but I think that it should be so. In your case, what matters is the level of remuneration of personnel and (I don’t know how this is correctly called) the general level of prices in the country. You have probably noticed that the same product in different countries costs differently in dollar prices.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          31 July 2020 10: 17 New
          +3
          Quote: Harry Cuper
          AN, I am not an economist, but I think that it should be so.

          There must be a difference, of course. But the bottom line is that this person could not understand at all how we manage to work for this money. The same Gazprom has the most stringent requirements - both to work clothes, and to the equipment used to carry out the work (the same seismic stations are strictly imported), and to residential houses "beams" and so on and so forth. They wrote off these requirements from Western seismic prospecting, apparently. And the Italian simply "did not enter" how it is possible to live on the difference between our obligatory (direct) costs of work and the cost of the contract (margin). And we lived :)))) And then they tell me that our non-production costs are 2-3 times higher
      2. Victorio
        Victorio 31 July 2020 11: 30 New
        0
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        that we are doing seismic exploration using imported equipment and according to the requirements corresponding to import standards, but for a price 4 times lower than his excellent company ... By the way, he quickly fled

        ===
        what are you talking about, or what? about your bright minds or the pedant foreign director? I'm talking about unproductive costs (easier mess, sloppiness. theft, etc.), and their unacceptable level in Russia. if you / others / many know and have to offer something better in the organization than, for example, the Japanese or Koreans, Germans, then honor and praise you, it remains for the implementation / application.

        And then they tell me that our non-production costs are 2-3 times higher
        ===
        not me, but you are telling about your and specific case. it is a pity that there are so few of them, otherwise the standard of living in Russia would not be lower than the Italian one.
    2. frog
      frog 3 August 2020 23: 45 New
      0
      The analyst analyzed in detail the costs of the same tractor plant in Russia and Canada, comparing ten indicators. Only in two of the indicators Russia turned out to be preferable to Canada - in terms of wages of workers (in Russia it is 66% of the Canadian one) and the cost of gas (saving $ 0,7 million per year). For the other eight counts, the Canadian plant costs less. In Russia, enterprise security (by $ 0,9 million), electricity (by $ 2,1 million) and transport (by $ 4,2 million) are more expensive. The biggest difference is in servicing loans ($ 14,4 million) and tax burden ($ 26,1 million). In addition, Russia differs from Canada in the cumbersomeness of its accounting, the weak state support for entrepreneurship, and the general atmosphere of doing business.

      Loans in Canada are provided at 2,3%, in Russia - on average at 11,75%.

      The note stated: “In Canada, the contributions to the pension fund are 3,5 times lower, the fees for accident insurance are 2 times lower, but the income tax is 2,8 times higher. As a result, taxes and deductions of 81 kopecks must be paid per ruble of wages handed out in Russia, and 72 kopecks in Canada ”.

      According to Konstantin Babkin, the difference in the costs of organizing the production of tractors in Canada and Russia is $ 38 million: in Canada the plant brings in $ 16,4 million annually, and in Russia there would be a net loss of $ 21,7 million, that is, a profitable Canadian the plant, being moved to the conditions of the Russian economic situation, will inevitably go bankrupt.

      Aunt Vika, article "Why the tractor plant will stay in Canada". Policy Brief for GDP. 2013 Written at his request .... Unknown reaction.
  • yuliatreb
    yuliatreb 30 July 2020 11: 01 New
    +9
    Everything is much simpler
    today the economic system still justified itself in 2000-2008, but today it is basically incapable of
    ... these are about the first two terms of the GDP, hence we have at least some kind of economic growth, I mean, there was a desire to get the country out of the ass into which his predecessor pulled us, the first two terms of his rule. Then the desire for Power began to prevail many times over the desire to change something. The conclusion is this, two to four and no more, no castlings like the "Medvedev-Putin" project, otherwise there will be no forward movement. What the president and his gang have now demonstrated with amendments to the constitution is its gross violation and should be prosecuted. Here it is the true face of the Power for the chosen ones, but behind the MKDom it’s already like themselves.
    1. Paul zewike
      Paul zewike 30 July 2020 11: 12 New
      -7
      Please name the article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, which these, no doubt, "worthy people" violated? I’m not joking, I just want to find out, so that I can use it later for argumentation.
      1. yuliatreb
        yuliatreb 30 July 2020 11: 18 New
        +9
        The fact of the matter is that it does not exist and there is nothing to argue with, but that it was necessary to try hard, although this is practically impossible under the current government.
  • Paul zewike
    Paul zewike 30 July 2020 11: 06 New
    14
    Great article! The author has combined and streamlined my scattered suspicions.
    1. Aag
      Aag 31 July 2020 11: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Paul Zewike
      Great article! The author has combined and streamlined my scattered suspicions.

      I agree word for word.
  • iouris
    iouris 30 July 2020 11: 18 New
    +9
    It seems that Russians are dying out (well, they don't want to survive and give birth for these salaries).
    1. your1970
      your1970 30 July 2020 12: 28 New
      -11
      Quote: iouris
      It seems that Russians are dying out (well, they don't want to survive and give birth for these salaries).

      The whole world (including the USSR) has proved that people multiply where it is bad and hungry. And where it is good, Switzerland or Denmark, the people do not multiply at all. Where the question arises - we need money for children, there will be no children (all of Europe and the Russian Federation). And where there is no money (Asia Africa) - there people breed like cockroaches
      1. your1970
        your1970 31 July 2020 12: 55 New
        +1
        Citizens minusers, you can obminusersya, but it's a fact !!! Wherever the incomes of the population are high, children DO NOT give birth !!! There are no 5-7 children in the family in Sweden and Switzerland, even if according to your logic it should !! And vice versa - in Asia 4-5-6 children in a family are easy !!!

        And in the USSR, a large number of children were in the pre-war period and during the war, and then began to decline. In our village, the Order of Maternal Glory was of the highest degree during the war period, and by the 70s they stopped giving them altogether.
        It was hungry in the USSR in the 70s - that the population stopped giving birth to more than 3 children, in principle, even then ????
    2. Alf
      Alf 30 July 2020 19: 10 New
      +4
      Quote: iouris
      (well, they don't want to survive and give birth for these salaries).

      A couple of years ago, Gref was surprised and offended that modern youth do not want to take out a mortgage on an apartment, but live in rented apartments, do not want to buy a car on credit, but use car sharing. He was really offended and said that such a situation was abnormal.
  • Operator
    Operator 30 July 2020 11: 23 New
    -24
    Freudian slip of the tongue: "If not for Crimea" - Russophobia blooms and smells with a suburban odor.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 30 July 2020 11: 24 New
    -8
    So, in 1988 "Moskvich" cost about 45 average wages. Today, a mediocre car for 750 thousand rubles. costs less than 18 average salaries (on hand). That is, it is not we who began to receive more, these are cars cost less, hence the growth in their number with us.

    Nonsense: cars have grown steadily in price - compare the same Golf 1990 and 2020 in dollars.

    And in 1988 there were few Muscovites, not because they were expensive. but because they simply did not exist - in the presence of a huge mass of cash from people
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 11: 29 New
      -7
      The cost of the Zhiguli was about 1,5 thousand Soviet wooden ones. They sold it for 6,5. Any capitalist with envy will hang himself from such a margin.
      1. iouris
        iouris 30 July 2020 13: 34 New
        10
        Quote: AS Ivanov.
        The cost of the Zhiguli was about 1,5 thousand

        The prime cost in 1972 was 550 full-time Soviet rubles. The cost of any (!) Car seven years ago did not exceed $ 2000. The margin from VAZ went to the budget (until Berezovsky appeared). Where is the car margin going today?
        The prime cost of a liter of edible alcohol in the USSR was 0,28 ... 0,45 rubles. The standard price for 0,5 liters of vodka is 4,12 rubles. The margin went to the budget. Where does the margin from the sale of alcoholic beverages and drugs go?
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 13: 37 New
          -13
          Wooden Soviet rubles. Wooden - because they were not a currency, they were not quoted or converted on foreign markets. A wrapper for domestic consumption. All conditions were made so that Soviet people could not freely buy a car, even if it was backward, of dubious quality. People's, like the state!
          1. iouris
            iouris 30 July 2020 13: 57 New
            +9
            AS Ivanov, what do you say if all the "convertible currencies", including the ruble, are covered with a copper basin? This prospect is quite real and pretty soon. In the meantime, he can drive to Tanzania.
            The USSR was a superpower, and therefore the ruble was fully secured and stable. The Soviet Zhigul and Moskvich were quite competitive cars for some time. By the way, "Zhigul" is a much improved, more reliable version of the best car of some (1964?) Year. "Muscovites" won rallies and were exported to Australia and Great Britain.
            A Soviet person could not “freely buy” a car killed in “Europe” and write something like “To Berlin!” On it, this is true. But a Soviet man stood in Berlin and traveled across Europe in a tank.
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 14: 03 New
              -8
              Lada is a modernized Fiat 124, a car that has never been advanced, and by the mid-70s it was already hopelessly outdated. The Muscovite was good for the 60s. But we managed to keep it on the assembly line for almost 30 years, in developed countries during this time, whole generations of cars have changed. And if we take the level and quality of life, then the USSR was Tanzania. True with missiles and nuclear power plants.
              1. iouris
                iouris 30 July 2020 14: 11 New
                10
                In terms of living standards, the USSR was very different, but according to some, the assessment was not inferior, for example, to Italy. You'd better look for objective assessments of economists on this matter. Well, yes, Soviet people suffered without fast food, without chewing gum. Although ... he didn't know what it was. I remember the first time I tasted banana, Coca-Cola and German ice cream - ugh!
                As for the quality of life, everything is more complicated here. Quality is understood in different ways: what is useful for a Russian is death for a German. You, for example, are not German and you will not be able to live in German (at least, you will have to break yourself for a long time to get used to it).
          2. SOVIET UNION 2
            SOVIET UNION 2 30 July 2020 16: 25 New
            +9
            Can you buy everything with rubles abroad today? Is the ruble highly quoted today? Is it the main or reserve currency today? And today they give 70 bucks for a ruble?
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 16: 33 New
              -3
              I paid with a ruble card abroad without any problems. The Russian ruble is quite convertible. For a soviet ruble they could give, at best, in the face. And the true price of wood was not 70 kopecks, but 1: 3 - 1: 4 - its market value.
              1. SOVIET UNION 2
                SOVIET UNION 2 30 July 2020 16: 55 New
                +6
                Well, if the ruble is snapped up, why then world trade for bucks? And Sechin strives to trade not for rubles, but for euros!
                I paid with a ruble card abroad without any problems. The Russian ruble is quite convertible
                And they took them in rubles at the exchange rate, or were they automatically converted into euros?
                1. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 17: 00 New
                  -2
                  The ruble was converted into the currency of the host country. The last time it was an Argentine peso. But the dollar, the dollar is still the world currency.
                  1. Harry cuper
                    Harry cuper 30 July 2020 18: 22 New
                    +5
                    Paying with a ruble card in Argentina, through the official dollar rate, is at least very unprofitable. I am sure that they looked at you with great bewilderment. I put it very mildly.
                    1. AU Ivanov.
                      AU Ivanov. 30 July 2020 18: 50 New
                      -2
                      Not profitable. But then I had no options.
                2. Harry cuper
                  Harry cuper 30 July 2020 18: 19 New
                  +1
                  Nobody says that the ruble is snapped up. The ruble is a weak and volatile currency. But you can pay with a ruble card with the Visa, Mastercard or Maestro payment system almost everywhere (where there is a minimal civilization). The bank converts rubles into dollars, and already dollars into local currency. At the internal rate of the bank that issued your card. It is different for everyone, for Sberbank it is one of the worst. Yes, and this number will not work with the Mir payment system.
      2. Aag
        Aag 31 July 2020 11: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        The cost of the Zhiguli was about 1,5 thousand Soviet wooden ones. They sold it for 6,5. Any capitalist with envy will hang himself from such a margin.

        1982: VAZ-21011 1560r. / 5740r.
        M-412. 2400 RUB / 4750 RUB
        Well, maybe this margin included free medicine and education, and much more?
        And the car then, whatever one may say, belonged to the elements of luxury ...
    2. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 30 July 2020 15: 33 New
      +2
      And in 1988 there were few Muscovites, not because they were expensive. but because they simply did not exist - in the presence of a huge mass of cash from people

      This year (1988) we had Moskvich-2140, VAZ-2121 (9000 rubles !!!), ZAZ-968m in our stores.
      And they were calmly given installments! (credit). VAZ-2101 ... 2108 was not (in turn).
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 July 2020 16: 08 New
        -4
        Quote: VIK1711
        This year (1988) we had Moskvich-2140, VAZ-2121 (9000 rubles !!!), ZAZ-968m in our stores.

        where is "you"? What is this parallel reality country?
        2140 stood in 1983-85 because of the WILD price and "quality", but in 1988 they swept away EVERYTHING, because there was a lot of money, and goods were 0
        1. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx 30 July 2020 17: 38 New
          +1
          where is "you"? What is this parallel reality country?
          2140 stood in 1983-85 because of the WILD price and "quality", but in 1988 they swept away EVERYTHING, because there was a lot of money, and goods were 0

          Stavropol Territory, Svetlograd, "Technics" store. The wild price is for Niva. M-2140 cost EMNIP 7800. Well, not VAZ in quality, of course! But the Zhiguli has already begun to drain the quality. And in the 90th everything was as described by you.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 31 July 2020 08: 09 New
            0
            Quote: VIK1711
            Stavropol Territory, Svetlograd, "Technics" store. The wild price is for Niva. M-2140 cost EMNIP 7800. Well, not VAZ in quality, of course! But the Zhiguli has already begun to drain the quality. AND everything was in 90as in the description by you.

            This was also in 1988
  • parusnik
    parusnik 30 July 2020 11: 34 New
    +9
    Statements of the government about the fight against poverty sounds like a mockery. In our RVC, a specialist receives 9 tyrs, a little higher than 11 tyrs. From a private trader, you can get 15 tyrs, the highest, but mostly no more than 10, no, there are places where you can get both 30 and 50, but there are very few of them ... And what is the struggle here ...
    1. Arlen
      Arlen 30 July 2020 13: 10 New
      22
      Our people are a great people! Our people threw off the Tatar-Mongol yoke, our people defeated Napoleon, our people destroyed Hitler, our people were the first in the world to throw off the yoke of capitalists and landowners, our people were the first in space.
      We have the richest country in natural resources, but for some reason in our country more than 15% of the population live in poverty, and almost 70% of the population earn only "bread and milk" and live on credit.
      The government of our country actually does nothing to solve this problem and this is a fact!
    2. SOVIET UNION 2
      SOVIET UNION 2 30 July 2020 16: 34 New
      +4
      ..And what is the struggle here ...
      Well, probably in that there were no poor oligarchs and officials! The Forbes list is growing with richer Russians! And the incomes of officials do not seem to fall at all! So, for a certain segment of the population, the fight against poverty is going on very successfully! Also, a certain stratum is guaranteed the right to earnings and income! Here some shout that there is no need to help the unemployed! However, a certain stratum is always willing to help! Really inhabitants of either another planet, or another universe!
  • prior
    prior 30 July 2020 11: 38 New
    13
    Putinism is a kind of stupidity in which the healthy turns into the sick, the normal into the immoral, the valuable into empty space. The path of regression under the flag of progress.
    1. Taga
      Taga 2 August 2020 10: 15 New
      0
      Tell me, do you really think that the change of the surname in the Kremlin will bring about cardinal changes in the country?
  • Harry cuper
    Harry cuper 30 July 2020 11: 43 New
    13
    Dear Andrey Nikolaevich! Things are exactly as you showed in your article. And it is naive to believe that Peskov does not know about this. Knows, and not only Peskov. Alas, the current ruling group (the hand cannot be called the elite) is not about the country's development. These guys have completely different goals - at any cost to stay at the helm as long as possible. This is not so much a matter of financial well-being as of banal physical security. You can analyze and debate as long as you like how the country got to this point, but the fact remains: these can only do this. If in another way, guided by at least common sense, then there will be no place for the current ones. And there ... nothing is guaranteed.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 30 July 2020 11: 47 New
    10
    Very good article, everything is written correctly.
    The only thing, I would add, is that those whose income is less than the subsistence level are not poor, they are beggars. But this is not a question for the author.
  • Roman123567
    Roman123567 30 July 2020 11: 54 New
    +6
    I would answer carefully here. We do not know the calculation methodology or other criteria. It can be said unambiguously that it is incorrect to draw conclusions at the federal level on the basis of such a sample.

    Peskov only knows the electoral counting methodology.
    Therefore, everything is correct for him there.
  • Academic
    Academic 30 July 2020 11: 55 New
    +8
    Great article. And if you also analyze the real tax burden and remember that the American statistical office also likes to play with statistics, it would be just great!
  • TAMBU
    TAMBU 30 July 2020 12: 13 New
    10
    Thank you for an excellent article.
  • Whowhy
    Whowhy 30 July 2020 12: 34 New
    13
    In fact, the average salary for young people with higher education is 20-25 tyrs. At first my children wanted to go to Moscow, or to St. Petersburg, but then they found out from their friends that renting housing there eats up all the "super profits", so there is no difference with our city (regional center). Now they are increasingly discussing which country is better to go to. There is no talk of having children at all (both are in an official marriage) - they themselves are barely enough for life ...
    1. Split
      Split 30 July 2020 13: 33 New
      -3
      I came to Moscow in 2006 ... I don't have a finished tower. I arrived ... now I'm getting 160 in my arms in Beeline, a senior architecture expert. Payment 30k per month, wife is a Muscovite with 2 apartments in Sokolniki. What is eating? What are the windfall profits? Children ... out of the question? Somehow I pull .... but barely enough ... but I take off and have a child ... maybe they didn't want to strain?
      1. Revival
        Revival 2 August 2020 00: 54 New
        +2
        You are on a removable move and we will discuss.
        Or is the wife of a Muscovite attached to every visitor?
        Or is it all the way to success?
        1. Split
          Split 2 August 2020 00: 59 New
          0
          I can give
          1. Revival
            Revival 2 August 2020 10: 40 New
            0
            What to give? Wife !?
    2. Split
      Split 30 July 2020 13: 35 New
      -1
      Maybe it's because my Mom and Father died early (2006) and I achieve everything myself?
    3. Split
      Split 30 July 2020 13: 42 New
      -6
      "From poverty, sober, I think the dumber the people, the better they live, we think too much and we have a too serious sense of humor" (c) Zadornov is from the concert "How to equip Russia" Although in the end, he is ultimately wrong ... Who is smart, lives well right now ... I'm certainly not a business, etc. but I live normally
      1. Split
        Split 30 July 2020 18: 00 New
        -5
        I see quite a lot here who are dragging the fucker and the humpback
  • Bagatur
    Bagatur 30 July 2020 12: 52 New
    +1
    Russia is flourishing and has become richer))) In poverty-stricken Bulgaria, the minimum patch is 310 euros, on average 650 euros ...
    1. Arlen
      Arlen 30 July 2020 13: 06 New
      16
      In contrast to macroeconomic indicators, the naked eye can see that the socio-economic situation in Bulgaria is extremely difficult. The poverty rate in the country is over 22%. Young people are actively leaving Bulgaria, but mostly people of retirement and pre-retirement age remain.
      There is a proverb: "We see a speck in someone else's eye, but in our own we don't even notice a log" wink
      1. Bagatur
        Bagatur 30 July 2020 13: 28 New
        +4
        Now a lot has already been audited to the Motherland! They are the ones who rally against all the bastards in power! But Russia has a huge resource, the entire Mendeleev table, a colossal territory ... And what? How did the new tsar-father say if you have 17 rubles, the middle class? Well done!
    2. Alf
      Alf 30 July 2020 19: 18 New
      +4
      Quote: bagatura
      In poverty-stricken Bulgaria, the minimum salary is 310 euros, on average 650 euros ...

      310 euros = 25 rubles.
      650 euros = 52 wooden.
      It's the same in Russia, and 52 tons are not everywhere. Your Bulgaria is poor with such salaries, then what is Russia like?
      1. Bagatur
        Bagatur 30 July 2020 21: 17 New
        0
        Same! But we don't have your resources! If the community has not been, then the wealth is 5 times higher! Compare Russia with Germany and Japan ... You have a victory parade and weapons "without analogues in the world" and there is economy!
  • Split
    Split 30 July 2020 13: 23 New
    -12
    It all depends on the brains, IMHO it is not income that falls, but education ... I now get 160 thousand and belong to those 2%. But it's hard for me too ... to raise a child, loans and so on. But I also entered the Physics Faculty of Moscow State University ... although I could not finish because of Mom's illness. Russian is characterized by selflessness and laziness at the same time. Now with GDP there is no freebie, as Zadornov said. Not that freebies ... used to give buns for work, but now everything that worked = earned. Honestly it is .... overall yes. I do not vote, but I still agree that the GDP raised the country and after the hump and ebn he raised Russia. I remember all those bread coupons in the 80s and 90s. I can say that I live better. And what are the percentages to compare ... Everyone lives as much as he can
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      30 July 2020 17: 09 New
      15
      Quote: Split
      I now get 160 thousand and belong to those 2%.

      Excuse me, and what meaning does your message carry?
      Quote: Split
      I can say that I live better.

      I can also say that I live better, because I also belong to the same 2%. But this does not in any way cancel or refute what is written in the article.
      Quote: Split
      And what are the percentages to compare ... Everyone lives as much as he can

      But this is already nonsense, from the word - complete. Let's take 2 people, one in Germany, say, and the second - we have a thread somewhere in Chelyabinsk. Both do not grab the stars from the sky, both have the same working profession. But a German will live better than ours, although he, a German, has made just as much effort as a Russian. So a person's income depends not only (and not even so much) on him, but on the surrounding society, his country, or rather, the economic situation in the country over which he has no control. A person's efforts can only determine the place in the hierarchy of this country, but not the level of income. In some Chad, we, having entered the 2% of the highest paid, will be able to afford a new shirt every year, and everyone will look at us with envy (exaggerating for an example). We'll be rich by Chad's standards, yes.
      1. Split
        Split 30 July 2020 17: 43 New
        -7
        Sorry I don't have time, I read your articles, you want to put a minus, yes For God's sake .... Only the German decided, my grandfather fought with a wound in the head, that we ... I won't write. I can get this money in the country ... I can determine my level
        1. Harry cuper
          Harry cuper 30 July 2020 18: 29 New
          +3
          You will poke your wife if you have one, of course.
          1. Split
            Split 30 July 2020 21: 45 New
            -3
            You poke the fence, I have a 9 month old child, if anything, I can poke, 6 years together
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          31 July 2020 07: 01 New
          +3
          Quote: Split
          I can get this money in the country ... I can determine my level

          Have you gone to brag? :) Well, well :)
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 31 July 2020 07: 57 New
            +3
            yes .. it seems like a friend came to boast ... the meaning of the article does not reach him from the word at all .. laughing It can be seen that the main achievement of a man - he moved to Moscow time and got married well, but he blames people for the lack of brains at the same time .. the one who really plows time on a computer with VR will not find much .. kindergarten .. well, God bless him ..
            P.S. Thank you very much for the article and in fact!
            1. Split
              Split 31 July 2020 10: 42 New
              -3
              For example, I am hovering a mod that costs $ 150 ... yes, I went to boast, and you probably envy a couple. The article gave Ashla to me and I have enough brains, too, to earn money. It's just that initially, I said that if a person wants, he can leave for Moscow time and get married (your words). And this whining about the average salary there below the baseboard .... my answer is that the level of education has fallen. You walk down the street and you see small dabiles who vape at 10-16 years old and can only use foul language, listen to rap with speakers, bought, probably, with saved breakfasts
              PS I'm fine with Russian, 5/5 +, my essay on the Master and Margarita Bulgakova won in the region
              1. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 31 July 2020 13: 51 New
                +3
                yes even for 250 nice people .. I can afford enough and without the artificial super-salaries of Moscow and the estate of my wife - in my city, with my personal labor and mind, everything is earned, but I have no desire to argue on this topic .. they are not immediately measured against princhindals, but they talk about the situation in the country .. with regard to "vapers" you are right, of them there will most likely not be any sense .. but for example, my own sister - a nurse sal 17 tr husband 30 - head of the warehouse + children and etc. 3tr .. house from parents , 3 children .. i.e. for a family member about 10tr - they think they are unworthy, lazy members of society, and if not, then they need to move to Moscow, though they will not get married .. now you understand what categories of citizens are you talking about? if you want to consider that I "whine" for them, or do you think they have everything super?
                1. Split
                  Split 31 July 2020 14: 00 New
                  0
                  I understand, maybe I got that random ticket for which it is impossible to change the meeting place in series 1? And I can see it ... Right now, I'm specifically sitting there eating a doshik to feed a child ... This is Moscow ... and my 3 Felix cats eat. As Kennedy said, even though I already said that they were not there ... We will achieve ... it will be necessary also with a forehead ... leave me alone, you can nominate with bots ... ez yu vish
                2. Split
                  Split 31 July 2020 14: 03 New
                  -3
                  I only see envy .... That the brains were not enough to go to Moscow, to enter the Moscow State University? What exactly prevented you from doing this? Leave me alone
                3. Split
                  Split 31 July 2020 14: 09 New
                  0
                  And I perfectly understand what you mean, at 94 I ate mayonnaise, because there was nothing to eat. And I was able to rise, to which most of the forum put a minus. Did you get up? Yes, I get 160 ... it's a penny! Let's continue to minus, is it also easier to become?
                  1. Revival
                    Revival 2 August 2020 02: 24 New
                    +4
                    You are a cynic and a petty arrogant, so they say I have risen from below, and who could not let me die what.
                    A fan of malthus? Or the Novomoskvich complex?
                    Nipishi textbook "how to make yourself from scratch by marrying a Muscovite."
                    It's a shame to write about such a "success" ....
                4. Split
                  Split 31 July 2020 14: 16 New
                  0
                  Come on, pop off the couch with a beer and come, I'll even give you a month in the hut for free, yab said to the Russians, but the rules limit, what's stopping you? What is it that live well, where is it warm?
                  1. 2 Level Advisor
                    2 Level Advisor 31 July 2020 14: 21 New
                    +2
                    To me, your achievements = Moscow time + Moscow State University + wife's housing + doshik is not a dream from a word at all ... and, to be honest, I think it's cool, I don't argue - it's relatively good - for a guy from a hole ... And I'm not bad here either fed, do not complain, in this presentation, it comes?
                    I am sitting in my office and after lunch I decided to wander for half an hour on VO .. Beer with a sofa at the height of the working day is not mine, I will not support you ..
                    In general, excuse me for having entered into a conversation with the owner of a brain of an inappropriate level for me .. we did not understand each other .. asta la vista ..
                    1. Split
                      Split 31 July 2020 14: 30 New
                      0
                      Yes, understand wink
                      I'm right now at a remote location, in Beeline until September 1 BeFREE
                      I could sit in Yasnoye and receive as a police chief and a judge
                      Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                      In general, I'm sorry that I entered into a conversation with the owner of the brain of the wrong level for me.

                      Let's talk about the expansion of the universe, black holes, etc. Popov Seryozha was a seminarian for me, Chelingoryan was a friend and studied with Ambartsumyan's niece
                    2. Split
                      Split 31 July 2020 18: 00 New
                      0
                      Yes, apparently you have not grown up to BH and other things
              2. region58
                region58 3 August 2020 00: 44 New
                0
                Quote: Split
                I'm fine with Russian, 5/5 +, my composition on the Master and Margarita Bulgakova won by region

                Quote: Split
                slash from the couch

                Very doubtful ...
          2. Split
            Split 31 July 2020 12: 47 New
            0
            More ... more ... more
      2. Split
        Split 30 July 2020 17: 49 New
        -8
        I see that many, judging by the minuses, are jealous ... I forgive
        1. Revival
          Revival 2 August 2020 02: 27 New
          +2
          Are they jealous?
          "With Russian I have a good 5/5 +, my composition ... won in the region ...".
          Uh huh, uh huh))))
      3. Split
        Split 30 July 2020 22: 47 New
        -5
        and yet, here you are talking about an economic arrangement ... it does not bother me, xs, like a German ... get 160 thousand and I can myself and a computer for 300 thousand with VR, a Civic ... afford a child .. .. What does the country have to do with it? Yes, in the states I could get more, but the level of services there is more expensive. I already got the minuses when I announced the income ... What should miners do what I did and get? nothing .... only voiced brains are apparently not enough
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          31 July 2020 07: 13 New
          +4
          Quote: Split
          and yet, here you are talking about an economic arrangement ... it does not bother me, xs, like a German ... get 160 thousand and I can myself and a computer for 300 thousand with VR, a Civic ... afford a child .. .. What does the country have to do with it?

          If you still do not understand, you can try to inquire about the earnings of a person of your profession and position in the West - then, perhaps, you will figure something out. For example, the fact that a more or less intelligent fitness trainer in the United States will earn more than you. The average salary in the United States after taxes is $ 2020 in 2. A post-graduate teacher will (after taxes) receive $ 981. As I see it, you understand everything through your pocket exclusively. Well, try this.
          Quote: Split
          I already got the minuses when I announced the income ... What should miners do what I did and get?

          Did you want to suffer? :)))) You see, my income as a whole was enough for a big apartment in brick, and for a Toyota, and for three children, and I still give you minuses. You are not given cons for income, but for limited thinking
          1. Split
            Split 31 July 2020 09: 49 New
            -4
            You know, before "Our Crimea!" I got $ 4,5k, right now 2,5 ... This Crimea surrendered to me?
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            and I still give you cons

            Yes, at least plug all the bots, for God's sake. I do not put
          2. Split
            Split 31 July 2020 10: 20 New
            -4
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            my income as a whole was enough for a big apartment in brick, and for a Toyota, and for three children

            In Moscow, this is the cost of a toilet in a one-room apartment, and there is something to be proud of. Toyota? Chorrol I suppose? laughing which ... about .... almost everyone. Well, and 3 children, I have nothing against, well done ... in Moscow, even for this salary 1 it is difficult to raise
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              31 July 2020 11: 13 New
              +2
              Quote: Split
              In Moscow, this is the cost of a toilet in a one-room apartment, and there is something to be proud of.

              Dear man, as I see it, consideration has completely refused you. I explain on the fingers - more or less high salaries, the same 2,5 bucks is much more profitable to earn on the periphery than in Moscow, because on the periphery you can afford a lot more with this money than you can in Moscow. But there is also a nuance - it is much more difficult to earn $ 2,5 tons on the periphery than in Moscow, here you have to try. But if you try, then the standard of living will be significantly higher, because Moscow is a very expensive city :) Because in Moscow you are with your 160 thousand rubles. you will earn money for a toilet, and in my native Chelyabinsk - for a great apartment. Conclusion - envy in silence :))))
              1. Harry cuper
                Harry cuper 31 July 2020 11: 37 New
                +2
                A.N.! You again get involved in explaining something to the next Nikolai. This is not necessary, because the person is either poorly performing his job or mentally unhealthy. Come on by! Better save your time for more useful things. respectfully hi
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Split
                  Split 31 July 2020 12: 06 New
                  -1
                  Are you a medic?
              2. Split
                Split 31 July 2020 12: 02 New
                -4
                I know when in 2008 I came to the city for the last time ... at the sight of 5 thousand banknotes in Aurica (such a bar) they looked at me with furious eyes. But Andrei, yes, I know it's difficult, but I won't go there. I can at least right now buy a hut in it, for 2e money that I spent on a child for 1,6 years. Under my window there is a Civic = apartment in Yasnoye. So what? Where to go? I envy you? my friend left your dear Chelyabinsk for Moscow to work ... For what? Support a family
              3. Split
                Split 31 July 2020 12: 16 New
                -3
                Apparently they tried, but it did not work ... Why such hatred for those who rock the boat in Moscow and earn money? Well, sit in your Chelyabinsk and write from it ... It's hard for me and I'm fighting ... life is a struggle ...
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  31 July 2020 12: 47 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Split
                  Why such hatred for those who rock the boat in Moscow and earn money?

                  Oh, how you want to drive me into the usual concepts "I could not go to Moscow, now he envies" :))))
                  First, what kind of hatred? It was you who reduced the conversation to your personal income. And it was you who decided to measure the length of the primary male characteristic with me. Although, in general, the article is being discussed here, and not measured by pipis.
                  In principle, I will not go to Moscow to live - I go there regularly, but I do not like this city. But I like Peter, and I lived there with my family for several years, but left, because the local eternal autumn hesitated the whole family. Even me, although autumn is my favorite season :))) But the city where my family and I really liked to live is Khanty-Mansiysk, just a wonderful place. But there is a problem with school education, so in the end we left there too.
                  And yes ... now I do not live in Chelyabinsk :)
                  1. Split
                    Split 31 July 2020 12: 57 New
                    -1
                    I love Peter ... I even tried a year ago and 12 years ago to go there too ... I miss sad
                    According to claim 1, yes .. The article is being discussed, and who is stopping?
                    P.S. And I love autumn, eternal rain. And where in the end is that?
                  2. Split
                    Split 31 July 2020 13: 11 New
                    +1
                    And I also see a pool of people who don’t bet too much +, so as not to get fired up and a bunch of dislikes, there is no point in ending the university, hello bots!
                    Listen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2-o0b2uLGM If you like me, it's your problem
                  3. Revival
                    Revival 2 August 2020 02: 31 New
                    +2
                    This is apparently either terribly funny troll, or everything is really bad ...
                    laughing laughing
                  4. Sergey Zhikharev
                    Sergey Zhikharev 3 August 2020 09: 39 New
                    +1
                    And yes ... now I do not live in Chelyabinsk :)

                    Will you really become "Andrey from Khanty-Mansiysk"?
                    ***
                    And an excellent analysis of the current situation.
              4. Split
                Split 31 July 2020 12: 30 New
                -2
                Andrey, let's stop shitting already. You have your own opinion, I have mine; I have been reading you from the very beginning. Well done, I would like to write, but, unfortunately, I am on the wrong topic
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  31 July 2020 13: 26 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Split
                  Andrey, let's stop shitting already.

                  Well, this is constructive. And I never oppose good prospects. Finishing
                  1. Split
                    Split 31 July 2020 13: 29 New
                    +1
                    Agreed, I'm sorry I put a couple out of anger, well, not a couple ... littered ... minuses ... you will not lose anything .... I look forward to new articles!
    2. Alf
      Alf 30 July 2020 19: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: Split
      I remember all those bread coupons in the 80s and 90s.

      But it is not necessary to so frankly nonsense, here people are not 15 years old.
      1. Split
        Split 30 July 2020 21: 56 New
        -5
        I'm 39,5 and I remember the queues for bread ... and ice cream once a month from Aktobe ... in cans of milk ... and Tsoi and Vysotsky. What do you need a scan of your passport?
        1. Alf
          Alf 30 July 2020 22: 00 New
          +1
          Quote: Split
          I'm 39,5 and I remember the queues for bread ... and ice cream once a month from Aktobe ... in cans of milk ... and Tsoi and Vysotsky. What do you need a scan of your passport?

          Keep the scanned passport for yourself. About coupons for bread, frank lies. And why did you drag Tsoi and Vladimir Semenovich here - for me personally, this is a great mystery. Ice cream in milk cans ??? Hmmm ...
          1. Split
            Split 30 July 2020 22: 05 New
            -5
            And that was ... Apparently you are much less ...
            "About coupons for bread, frank lies" No, not a lie, 88-89 I stood in these lines. What does Tsoi and Vysotsky have to do with it .... So the country was on the ears then .... I have these songs in tts. listened. And I remember empty shelves
            1. Alf
              Alf 30 July 2020 22: 09 New
              +2
              Quote: Split
              Apparently you are much less ...

              Of course, less than 73 years old. Will you count it yourself?
              Quote: Split
              "About coupons for bread, frank lies" No, not a lie, 88-89 I stood in these lines.

              The queue and coupons are completely different things. In Samara, I had coupons for meat, oil, washing powder, vodka, soap, sugar. It was about the same everywhere, but there were no bread coupons anywhere.
              1. Split
                Split 30 July 2020 22: 17 New
                -10
                Well, ok, who is against, he called it as he remembered, came to find fault? I had nothing to eat even at 95. Yes, I do not argue that all these olipiads were organized for Sorovskoe. I studied at Moscow State University ... Mom fell ill with cancer, as a result, in 2006 he left for Moscow ... worked ... right now I have a son, I work well. I believe that GDP lifted the country from its knees (for which it cut off the minuses).
                1. Alf
                  Alf 30 July 2020 22: 24 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Split
                  Well, ok, who is against, he called it as he remembered, came to find fault? I had nothing to eat even at 95. Yes, I do not argue that all these olipiads were organized for Sorovskoe. I studied at Moscow State University ... Mom fell ill with cancer, as a result, in 2006 he left for Moscow ... worked ... right now I have a son, I work well. I believe that GDP lifted the country from its knees (for which it cut off the minuses).

                  First, you've come to a place where precision is loved.
                  Secondly, your manner of presenting information is very strange. And here "there is nothing to eat", what does "Olympiad" have to do with it, where does "he studied at Moscow State University"? Do you boast of Moscow State University? Strange, there should have taught you to write without mistakes.
                  Do you think that Putin raised the country from its knees? Consider, only this uplift is very similar to pose N5.
                  1. Split
                    Split 30 July 2020 22: 27 New
                    -4
                    Firstly, no one obliges me, except you ... life is not performance characteristics.
                    Secondly, if my style of presentation does not suit you ... do not answer
                    Yes, I think, because now I live better
              2. Split
                Split 30 July 2020 22: 24 New
                -5
                I don’t know how it was with you in Samara, I just passed it ... but in Kazakhstan then even with bread there were problems. It makes no sense for me to lie ..... even at 83 when I moved to Orenburg, there were problems. And now, the petrels are experiencing there ... And in the city of Yasny there is Satan and the Dnieper was launched. I will not say more, 1 form
                1. Alf
                  Alf 30 July 2020 22: 27 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Split
                  I will not say more, 1 form

                  But more is not needed, and so everything is clear, I see something and sing.
                  1. Split
                    Split 30 July 2020 22: 34 New
                    -5
                    No need to be ironic, 93, I am typing in the dark, I will correct the message.
                    I’m a secretary, I found a little 2nd, the bochin reminds me, my memory is a little tame ... what did you find fault with then? My secret has long ended, I can share it if necessary ... and when they raised it on 9/11, etc.
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 30 July 2020 22: 47 New
                      +5
                      Quote: Split
                      93,

                      What is 93?
                      Quote: Split
                      typing in the dark

                      Turn on the light.
                      Quote: Split
                      found a little 2nd

                      What is the second?
                      Quote: Split
                      and when they raised on 9/11

                      What is this about?
                      You would end up with fiery water ...
                      1. Split
                        Split 30 July 2020 22: 52 New
                        -5
                        1. Moved to the Russian Federation from Kazakhstan
                        2. It suits me
                        3. Well, it’s clear that we didn’t find it ... I won’t ... Chechen
                        4. Secretary, 9/11 ... says nothing? you need to drink less ... All our forces raised the alarm, and I deciphered it ... what year are you there? I strongly doubt
                      2. Split
                        Split 30 July 2020 22: 57 New
                        -4
                        And you know at the military registration and enlistment office in 2001 everything was on paper, each transcript was 1 sheet, in Mother's mentor ... there was a special calculator for encryption and decryption. I don't know how right now ... but most likely on computers.
                      3. Revival
                        Revival 2 August 2020 02: 36 New
                        +1
                        Looks like pouring 50 before comment ....
                        Somehow everything is incoherent and incoherent ...
                        One fragment of Mikhan recalled, it will not be remembered by nightfall.
                        Right now on the Kalchak fronts there will still be
                2. region58
                  region58 3 August 2020 01: 01 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Split
                  even at 83 when he moved to Orenburg

                  Quote: Split
                  I'm 39,5 and I remember

                  Thank you, my dear man, I have had a lot of fun. yes
                  Quote: Revival
                  Right now on the Kalchak fronts there will still be

                  How to drink to give ...
  • Mishka78
    Mishka78 30 July 2020 13: 36 New
    +6
    Statistics is generally a very funny thing. On one resource there is a young lady who draws graphs of how we all won in the economy, and these all sorts of America and other funny Germany in the wildest crises and are about to fall apart.

    Based on Rosstat data, the growth of industrial production in the Russian Federation in 2018 amounted to 2,8%. And Germany - 1.2%.
    From here, especially for the plus-cheeky hamsters she made and put the conclusion in their mouths that everything is cool with us, but everything is sad there.

    But in fact, everything is something like this:
    In the Russian Federation, the growth of industrial production - 2,9%
    In Germany, the increase in industrial production - 1,2%
    We're cool.

    Now for a simple example:
    Car production in 2018.
    RF - 1,5 million pieces. + 2,9% = +43,5 thousand pieces
    Germany - 6 million pieces + 1,2% = 72 thousand pieces.
    Are we still cool?

    Another example.
    After 98 and the default, which we were still in good positions Gref, Chubais, Dubinin, Zadornov, Zlatkis and other ghouls, our GDP growth in 1999-2007 was 5-10% per year. In the USA, it was 2-4% per year. Are we far ahead of them?

    The problem of the current (as well as of the late Soviet) government is a permanent lie. They lie in everything. Is always. When and when not. Why - it's unclear ...
    Kiselyov tells us from TV how good life is, pensioners are happy that they do not need to retire for another 5 years, the Ministry of Labor says that in the Russian Federation an unprecedented increase in wages is being discovered, etc.
    And then a person goes outside in the morning and sees reality. That there are 20 million people in the country below the poverty line (Rosstat), that prices in the store are growing much faster than his unprecedented salary, that the road to work is bumpy shit. What if tomorrow he loses this job, another will not find it and dies in a ditch, tk. no one really needs it, that no one really wants to treat him for free, and there is nothing, that free education is given to his children so that they really grow and one has to constantly pay extra to tutors, etc. etc.

    It seems to me that the collapse of the USSR was largely due to this. That on TV all the time milk yields were growing and wheat was earing, but in real life there was nothing to eat ...
  • akunin
    akunin 30 July 2020 14: 14 New
    +2
    Please tell someone about this to the President's Press Secretary D. Peskov. He must learn at least a little about the country in which he lives.
    he is a father of many children and will not tell him Navka (she is a mother of many children) and their income is a little more than 15 sput.
  • Siberia
    Siberia 30 July 2020 14: 18 New
    +4
    Everything to the point and with excellent analysis! This is how we live ...
  • bandabas
    bandabas 30 July 2020 14: 35 New
    -1
    "Pyaterochka helps out!" We'll all be there soon. Insanity grows stronger.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 30 July 2020 15: 00 New
    +9
    "... Previously, we sold goods for $ 1, and received 32 rubles in the budget. Now we sell for a dollar and get 45 rubles. Budget revenues have increased ..."
    This was said by a famous long-liver several years ago.
  • awdrgy
    awdrgy 30 July 2020 16: 31 New
    +1
    I'm certainly a suspicious person, but it looks like the process is controlled from above or from the side (how to look) Painfully interesting "vicious circles" are obtained
  • adpilot
    adpilot 30 July 2020 16: 43 New
    -13
    And most importantly, this scribble (from allegedly Chelyabinsk) exactly fits the subject of the Military Review!
    1. Revival
      Revival 2 August 2020 02: 41 New
      +2
      Yes, everyone already knew that you have nothing to say on the topic))
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 30 July 2020 17: 46 New
    +1
    With the union, we could also provide ourselves with a car for each family (the release allowed) -that is, only the emphasis on public transport was plus our cars were sold well in the social and developing countries for currency, there was not much left for ourselves, so the thesis of a luxury car was formed with a scoop.
  • Million
    Million 30 July 2020 17: 47 New
    +7
    The Kremlin says: People are new oil!
    Now we are being milked! New fines appear almost daily!
  • Konatantin 1992
    Konatantin 1992 30 July 2020 19: 22 New
    +3
    Novosibirsk region, my wife's salary is 22400 plus or minus the same, this is still considered not bad, the bulk lives on a salary of 15,17 thousand per month (many friends and acquaintances). So it's a stretch to call it life
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 30 July 2020 19: 56 New
    +2
    Yes, he does not live in Russia, a French citizen and children there. Here he is on a business trip. And as for statistics, she is the only one there is a population decline, women do not want to give birth, change the system, it leads to extinction and the collapse of the country
  • sevryuk
    sevryuk 31 July 2020 00: 46 New
    -2
    Well, first you need to restore the territorial integrity of the country and return at least raw materials.
    Unfortunately, this will happen, apparently, after the physical extinction of Puten ((
  • KSVK
    KSVK 31 July 2020 01: 01 New
    +4
    Author, BRAVO!
    Everything is relative, but it's hard to argue with numbers.
    Even local gentlemen with brain patriotism have nothing to say except for petty quibbles.
    Stories begin about who is good to live in Russia.
    BRAVO Author!
  • Urs
    Urs 31 July 2020 01: 18 New
    -8
    Well, I don't know how to say here so that everyone understands.
    I read all the reviews, there is outright flattery, there is unjustifiably critical.
    In my opinion, the article as a whole is not bad, it reminded me very much of the accountant's report.
    The most interesting and not disclosed WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE BETTER OR Worse.
    There was an interesting statement about a Russian robotic and a German one, an interesting comparison of a person who is not at all aware of the life of a German hard worker.
    And the current is not a bad analysis for an accountant, a little superficial. You can also raise the topic of taxation of the system as such, and of the pension system. ...
    I am the one who will say that life in the country has become better for me fellow uniquely yes
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 31 July 2020 08: 04 New
      +1
      better than when? Than 30 years ago? Let's not get into history .. let's take 2011 and today, is it better?
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      31 July 2020 10: 28 New
      +4
      Quote: Urs
      There was an interesting statement about a Russian robotic and a German one, an interesting comparison of a person who is not at all aware of the life of a German hard worker.

      Considering that I have good friends in Germany, this is a very bold statement, but not very smart.
      Quote: Urs
      And the current is nothing good analysis for an accountant, slightly superficial.

      Feci quod potui faciant meliora potentes
      Quote: Urs
      The most interesting and not disclosed WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE BETTER OR Worse.

      In fact, the topic of the article is to assess the ability of our citizens to support children in terms of the real income of the population. And yes, "what does it mean to live better or worse?", "What to do?" "Am I trembling, or do I have the right?", "What comes first - a chicken or an egg?" and other questions of the universe of interest to you in the format of a short Internet article did not fit. Which is not surprising at all.
      1. Urs
        Urs 31 July 2020 20: 04 New
        -3
        Well, if you consider that I myself have lived in Germany for some time, and I know this, as they say from the original source, then your statement about cleverness looks insulting. By the way, all my friends as one claim that living in Germany is "honey", but only under a bubble of relaxation happens easy zboy and it turns out that everything is far from very good and it is necessary to break many stereotypes of the rules, that before spending a penny, sorry euro, the first thought is what about the family budget. In short, everything is far from simple.
        Well, about "WHAT MEANS TO LIVE BETTER", but everything is simple. For what purpose did you start your accounting calculations, I see only one thing to convince us that we have become "LIVE WORSE", this statement is permeated throughout the article in examples and comparisons.
        But I think that the standard of living in general has increased, I will not say that everything is in chocolate, but a rather impressive part of the population has increased their well-being.
        Well, if you prefer a comparative analysis, so I dare to remind you that in your "beloved" America the number of the poor and the level of the poor is 10-15 percent higher than in our country. True, the number of the rich and the very rich is also higher.
        Here's something like this. You are not our clever.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          1 August 2020 11: 04 New
          +5
          Quote: Urs
          Well, if you consider that I myself have lived in Germany for some time, and I know this as they say from the original source, then your statement about cleverness looks insulting.

          But it is true
          Quote: Urs
          By the way, all my friends, as one, claim that "honey" finally can live in Germany, but only under a bubble of relaxation there is a slight zombie and it turns out that everything is not very good

          And nobody said that in Germany the working class lives ideally. The point was that a person of one profession and professionalism in it will live better in Germany than in the Russian Federation.
          Quote: Urs
          But I think that the standard of living in general has increased, I will not say that everything is in chocolate, but a rather impressive part of the population has increased their well-being.

          Compared to what? With the 90s? Yes. But for the last 10 years we have been going down.
          Quote: Urs
          Well, if you prefer comparative analysis, I dare to remind you that in your "beloved" America the number of the poor and the level of the poor is 10-15 percent higher than in our country.

          And I will suggest that you study the criteria for poverty in America and here.
          Quote: Urs
          Here's something like this. You are not our clever.

          I will not assess your ability to think, but I will note that:
          1) You wrote the most complete nonsense. If you dare to argue further on the subject of welfare growth or comparison with Germany - take the trouble to give at least some figures to confirm your point of view.
          2) An attempt to assign me the title of "America's lover" betrays you a person adherent to the stupidest cliches. "If he writes about the problems of the Russian Federation, then he is a American spy and a conspirator!"
          1. Urs
            Urs 1 August 2020 13: 18 New
            -1
            Well, I think it's not worth continuing the discussion in this kind of spirit. You and I stand on different platforms of outlook on life and the criteria of "BETTER-WORSE". I have something to compare and not only 90, which I remember with pain and regret.
            And finally, I remembered America in the context of poverty, not because I consider you to be an adherent of the American way of life, although many have already called me "Kremlinbot" and "Putinist", but because this example will show many people that not everything in the world's first economy either so cool and rosy, but what can we say about ours, which has not yet decided to go up or stand still smile .
            I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that I am not an ardent adherent of the current domestic economic policy, I have many complaints about the current course of the leadership, BUT on the issue of "better or worse" in the state, you know my position.
            At the expense of numbers, so your prerogative, you are an economist, so do the work and show us "brainless warriors" (in accordance with the topic and name of the forum) where in the world it is good to live on our fingers in numbers, otherwise we do not know how to think along the way (well, Che is one gyrus and then from a cap) and we do not know how to read and cannot compare.
            I dare to assure you of this kind of articles with the same analysis of the economic situation "aaaaaa everything is gone" I come across quite often, and you are not original in your speech.
            For this I will finish, I see no reason to continue the discussion.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              1 August 2020 15: 13 New
              +5
              Quote: Urs
              Well, I think it's not worth continuing the discussion in this kind of way.

              I agree.
              Quote: Urs
              You and I stand on different platforms of outlook on life and "BETTER-WORSE" criteria

              And your criteria are completely incomprehensible, which is why I offered to disclose them in numbers.
              Quote: Urs
              And finally, I remembered America in the context of poverty, not because I consider you an adherent of the American way of life.

              Well, thanks for that :))))))))))
              Quote: Urs
              but because this example will show many people that in the first world economy, too, not everything is so cool and rosy

              Who's arguing? Today, both the United States and Europe are full of economic problems. But these are their problems, let them solve them, and I'm talking about ours.
              Quote: Urs
              At the expense of numbers, so your prerogative, you are an economist, so do the work

              I spent - within the article. And I would like to receive substantiated objections in numbers, that's all.
    3. Aag
      Aag 31 July 2020 12: 29 New
      +2
      Well, the comments fully confirm the figures set forth by the author, we look at the number of those who live better, and those who agree with the author. Of course, the audience is somewhat targeted at VO, but the trend is still not in favor of optimists (((.
  • About 2
    About 2 31 July 2020 08: 13 New
    +2
    If the middle class gets 17 thousand from the guarantor, then what else can we talk about?
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 31 July 2020 12: 55 New
    +3
    Mr. Peskov spends much more than 15 thousand rubles on one lunch. And he cannot imagine what it would be like to live on that kind of money for a month. "You are all lying !!" On my own behalf, 15 pieces per person in Russia is still very good. Many families have a much lower income, and yes, their share is growing, in the last 5 years it has been growing rapidly. But Mr. Peskov is so good! It cannot be that this rough reality suddenly invaded his high ...
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 31 July 2020 13: 16 New
    +1
    Once people have multiplied before, it is incomprehensible to the mind ..
  • Garant_Solntselikij
    Garant_Solntselikij 31 July 2020 13: 35 New
    0
    We live stably on VO, we are good good
  • lazy
    lazy 1 August 2020 04: 04 New
    0
    in principle, I completely agree, except that the birth rate rises with the income level, if we proceed from world statistics, the income level should be sharply reduced. (just kidding)
  • Vdi73
    Vdi73 1 August 2020 08: 30 New
    0
    This type, the press secretary of the President of the Russian Federation, is very reminiscent of the famous character from the movie Mowgli.
  • LMN
    LMN 1 August 2020 19: 23 New
    +2
    I do not agree.