Military Review

Naval bases and command centers: Poseidon and Petrel find their targets

155
Naval bases and command centers: Poseidon and Petrel find their targets

The emergence of the latest Burevestnik cruise missile and the Poseidon autonomous unmanned vehicle in service with the Russian army will allow to neutralize, if not completely, but to a greater extent, the American anti-missile defense (ABM) system, which the United States is so scrupulously building around Russia, hiding behind statements about the threat. Iranian, then North Korean intercontinental ballistic missiles. This has been repeatedly written by both Russian and foreign media, moreover, in the West, the Russian nuclear-powered missile and nuclear drone are called shock weapons (offensive weapon). In Russia, this statement is constantly refuted, stating that both "Petrel" and "Poseidon" are weapons of defense.


Targets for Russia's latest weapons




The 2M39 Poseidon autonomous unmanned underwater vehicle with a nuclear power plant is positioned as a response to the American missile defense system. The program involves the creation of a multipurpose autonomous vehicle capable of carrying a variety of payloads - incl. high-yield thermonuclear warhead.

Considering the well-known performance characteristics of Poseidon, namely the fact that the immersion depth of the device is up to 1 km, the maximum speed is about 200 km / h, and it has practically unlimited cruising range, it can be assumed that the main targets for the Russian marine drone will be military American marine infrastructure fleetlocated on the coast. As you know, the United States mainly relies on its own navy, which is currently the strongest in the world.

A strike by even one Poseidon carrying a nuclear warhead along the US coast will lead to huge losses, and if we consider that the Russian Navy plans to put into service up to 32 underwater drones, several Poseidons can make the coastline deserted, including coastal cities ... Nuclear ash? Well, if the "partners" have not been able to understand other arguments for a long time, then today such rhetoric is perhaps justified.

Another target of autonomous naval vehicles may be American aircraft carrier groups. And the absence of torpedoes capable of destroying Poseidon in service with the US Navy and its allies make it practically invulnerable.


The Burevestnik cruise missile is an unlimited-range, subsonic intercontinental cruise missile with a nuclear power plant. The rocket has been repeatedly criticized for its subsonic speed. It was stated that its low speed and "radioactive exhaust" make the missile vulnerable to almost all Western anti-aircraft systems.

So why aren't the same American Tomahawks, which are also subsonic missiles, criticized? The Russian missile also knows how to maneuver, bypassing obstacles, follow the terrain, hiding from anti-aircraft systems. But unlike the American one, which has a limited range, the Burevestnik has no such restrictions. By the way, back in 2018, it was announced that the Burevestnik was being created as a strategic weapon capable of overcoming any modern anti-missile and air defense systems, but for some reason everyone safely forgot about this, continuing to criticize the missile for its subsonic speed. And to use an air defense system against a nuclear warhead flying up to the target is still a success ...

Earlier it was stated that the subsonic "Petrel" is not an offensive weapon, it is "a weapon of retaliation." It is assumed that the missile targets will be land infrastructure (military bases, airfields, ICBM installations, control bunkers, etc.) in the depths of the enemy's territory, which survived after the strike by intercontinental ballistic missiles. In this situation, the Burevestnik will calmly bypass the remaining air defense and missile defense systems, if they survive, and will strike.

Thus, it can be stated that the Burevestnik cruise missile and the Poseidon autonomous unmanned underwater vehicle are "second chance" weapons. They will find their own targets, no doubt: for Burevestnik it will be the military infrastructure deep in enemy territory, while for Poseidon the main targets will be naval bases on the coast and aircraft carrier strike groups.
Author:
Photos used:
YouTube / RF Ministry of Defense
155 comments
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  1. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 28 July 2020 17: 53 New
    -10
    Maybe for a start, get these things into service, and only then fly in the clouds in euphoria.
    1. LMN
      LMN 28 July 2020 18: 09 New
      0
      Do you have information?
    2. LMN
      LMN 28 July 2020 18: 12 New
      0
      armed with these things

      What weapons?
      1. nickname7
        nickname7 29 July 2020 18: 45 New
        +3
        He means putting on duty in the army. You see, do not talk sacks, if
        serial products massively zero means they are not.
        1. lopvlad
          lopvlad 30 July 2020 14: 01 New
          +3
          Quote: nickname7
          if
          serial products massively zero means they are not.


          according to your logic, if, for example, the USSR in 1949 did not have serial production of the RDS-1 nuclear bomb, then the USSR did not have nuclear weapons either.
          When it comes to weapons of mass destruction, the presence of even one sample automatically makes you the owner of it.
    3. LMN
      LMN 28 July 2020 18: 17 New
      +4
      We are talking about "portable" nuclear engines.
      Who will tell you about them ?!
      1. Lumumbo
        Lumumbo 28 July 2020 19: 42 New
        -7
        Quote: LMN
        We are talking about "portable" nuclear engines.
        Who will tell you about them ?!

        No one ! This is a weapon of the "dead hand system" modernized
        Thus, it can be stated that the Burevestnik cruise missile and the Poseidon autonomous unmanned underwater vehicle are "second chance" weapons. They will find their goals, no doubt: for Burevestnik it will be a military infrastructure in depth

        It's time to sit down with Russia at the negotiating table, on equal terms .. and not to poison us on all fronts .. Hear the Anglo-Saxons and your chorus in Russia ?????
        Patience with us Russians is not endless .. soldier
        PS here they told me, my statements are spread on Anglo-Saxon sites .. Well, read and think .. And what do you want to choose?
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 28 July 2020 20: 24 New
          +7
          Well, everything, Meehan, now "couch" in pardon will crumble. Balm for their ears.
        2. snake
          snake 28 July 2020 21: 55 New
          +2
          Quote: Lumumbo
          PS they told me here, my statements are spread on Anglo-Saxon sites

          These are their bad devils
          Muddy the water in the pond
          Churchill came up with it all
          In the eighteenth year!
          We are about explosions, about fires
          We wrote a TASS note ...
          But the orderlies rushed
          And they fixed us.
          (C)
        3. nickname7
          nickname7 29 July 2020 18: 40 New
          +3
          There are weapons that are much more powerful than Stormwoods and Poseidons, this weapon is the all-buying dollar. I remember Iraq was strong, but the generals were bought up, they preferred 10 lemons and a house by the sea and left the war. Are you sure that Russian generals and officials will choose the Russian Federation, not dollars? Considering that many bureaucrats, pensioners and the elite owning the Russian economy, live abroad.



          It's time to sit down with Russia at the negotiating table, on an equal footing ... and not to poison us


          Negotiations are conducted only with an equal, uncle. To begin with, it is necessary that the American senators keep their fortunes in Moscow banks, then there will be parity, but there is a catch, the senators keep the money with themselves. It makes no sense for them to talk, they just will force oligarchs and roselits to do what they need, under the threat of confiscation of yachts and estates.
          1. Lumumbo
            Lumumbo 29 July 2020 20: 45 New
            -2
            Quote: nickname7
            I remember Iraq was strong, but the generals were bought up, they preferred 10 lemons and a house by the sea and left the war. Are you sure that Russian generals and officials will choose the Russian Federation, not dollars?

            It was like that in the 90s and many dissenters were shot ... Now everyone understands what awaits them if they betray
            We choose not the Russian Federation, but RUSSIA -FATHERLAND! Feel the difference .. soldier
            Judging by the past 20 years, these are not enough ... wink

            And it became easier to breathe ..
            1. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 4 August 2020 12: 14 New
              0
              It was like that in the 90s and many dissenters were shot ... Now everyone understands what awaits them if they betray

              The fact of the matter is that even if they understand, their money remains there. So, when choosing a wallet or Russia, they will choose a wallet. Also because Russia will not protect their money. And the money is stolen. Everyone knows this.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 29 July 2020 21: 05 New
            0
            Quote: nickname7
            I remember Iraq was strong

            Iraq was weak because it did not win its war with Iran. Then he completely lost to the MNF in 1991. As a result, the generals looked at Hussein as a weak leader and happily merged him.
          3. Smoke
            Smoke 31 July 2020 06: 52 New
            -3
            what kind of game are you carrying, what reserve did you get out of, deer?
        4. Vlad T
          Vlad T 29 July 2020 18: 53 New
          +2
          No one will sit down to negotiate, the sanctions will be tightened even tighter, but for that is certainty that they will not go to war ... But you cannot calm down, a new danger, as COVID-19 has shown, may become biological weapons, the US Department of War has many closed biological laboratories abroad, especially around Russia ... It is necessary to expand the forces of the RHBS in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, to look for counter-weapons, and also weapons, so that the enemies know that in return they will receive an equally strong blow. For example, why did not Hitler use the advanced poisonous gases Zarin, Soman, which he was preparing for the front with the USSR, because the Aglikans answered that if the Wehrmacht applied, then the British would flood the whole of Germany with OV ...
          1. CBR600
            CBR600 3 August 2020 15: 06 New
            0
            Digress from the topic, but I don't believe you. England and all of Europe armed Hitler for the war with the USSR. No
            for the Aglikans replied, if the Wehrmacht applies, then the British will flood the whole of Germany with OV .......
            could not be. Their mutual bombardment is dust in the eyes. Here are other conclusions. And yes, RHB Protection
    4. olegactor
      olegactor 28 July 2020 18: 31 New
      -4
      Maybe for a start, get these things into service, and only then fly in the clouds in euphoria.



      Well, at least you can't call PUTIN cartoons ..... already progress
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 28 July 2020 20: 52 New
        -2
        Quote: olegactor
        Well, at least you can't call PUTIN cartoons ..... already progress

        I know why in the days of the USSR they did not talk about modern and in general weapons, because the life of the Soviet people was filled with other wonderful things, creative work, cultural leisure and recreation, occupied by interests and simply good human relations.
        And now the scribe gives the plebs for the holiday not a kind cartoon about Cheburashka and the free Palace of Culture, but scary cartoons about a terrible sraketa that will kill everyone several times, and then eat it again!
        And a beggar plebs, joyful from his own madness, robbed to a thread, applauds for a "gift".
        All this really looks like a fool ...
        1. Kart
          Kart 29 July 2020 08: 49 New
          +2
          Ek undermines you.
        2. telnet
          telnet 29 July 2020 16: 51 New
          -3
          exactly. excellent in business in the beautiful bugs of communal apartments. a country where there were no conflicts in endless queues for the essentials. even it is strange that all these kind and creative people took knives and went to cut each other. Azerbaijanis slaughtered Armenians, Georgians Ossetians, Chechens Russians. and the kind Riga riot police? count these good people and did not even kill anyone. that was the culture, the whole world went nuts with overflowing kindness.
      2. nickname7
        nickname7 29 July 2020 19: 01 New
        -3
        You can't call PUTIN cartoons ..... already progress

        Poseidon does not sail from the base himself, he still needs to be delivered to the Atlantic at the launch point, for this you need a carrier submarine... So at the time of scoring by the guarantor, the carrier had not yet been built, that is, the Poseidon is a donut hole. And today it looks like the tests have not yet been carried out, the submarine-Poseidon complex has not been put on alert.



        Now laugh.
        1. Andrey1903
          Andrey1903 29 July 2020 19: 45 New
          -3
          And he won't be on duty soon.
    5. Andrey1903
      Andrey1903 29 July 2020 19: 41 New
      -4
      Absolutely agree! Why fart in flour!
    6. georgiigennadievitch
      georgiigennadievitch 31 July 2020 10: 43 New
      0
      Thank God that a light has dawned in the minds of our military leaders. If earlier (for tens or even hundreds of years) it was believed that the Anglo-Saxons were reliably protected from retaliatory strikes by the seas and oceans, now it is understood that the surrounding water element is their "Achilles heel" A sudden disarming strike from under the water not only on US bases and their large settlements and infrastructure, but also on European NATO countries, Japan, etc. is a "very cool club" that can discourage them from their desire for military adventures Another thing is that in order to achieve the greatest effect, we will have to have full-fledged naval bases far from the Russian Federation and closer to the adversaries, at least in the Mediterranean Sea and the Indian Ocean, in Latin America, as well as to make more nuclear submarines and boats with non-nuclear power plants, good and different. The same can be said about the "petrels." If the states are attacked not only in the shortest directions from the north, where they wait and prepare, but, say, from the outside Mexico, or the Pacific Ocean, it will be a very big problem for them.
    7. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 3 August 2020 21: 11 New
      0
      Maybe for a start, get these things into service, and only then fly in the clouds in euphoria.


      Such things will be built for another ten years and all ten years they will be able to destroy the enemy. This is the specificity of this weapon. Constant modification and refinement. At the same time, standing in service.
  2. demo
    demo 28 July 2020 18: 02 New
    -11
    I don't even know for what reason, but all these stories about "Petrel" and "Poseidons", it seems to me, are aimed at a Russian listener.
    Those. on me and others like me.
    Purpose?
    Obvious.
    An assessment, with a plus sign, of the activities of the ruling party and its permanent leader, nullified.
    Summary.
    A super weapon has been created that will allow us Russians to look confidently and fearlessly into the distant future.
    And the adversary trembles and grinds his teeth.

    The products of the creative association "Soyuzmultfilm" do not impress me much.
    And how those adversaries really relate to our attempts is a separate conversation.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 28 July 2020 18: 15 New
      -12
      Purpose?
      Obvious.

      hiWell, they have already "hit the budget" successfully. And at the same time, hospitals and rural schools.

      The products of the creative association "Soyuzmultfilm" do not impress me much.

      It is not designed for you and me. But the "patriots" huddled in epilepsy.
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 28 July 2020 19: 09 New
        12
        I had a teacher of the English language at my school. The phrase she said, I remember for the rest of my life! Let me eat less sausage, but we have one more warhead than the Americans! Holy woman.
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 20: 18 New
          +4
          But this does not apply to Poseidon. He takes not only the sausage from the teachers, but also the warheads from the Armed Forces, in return providing only filling the pockets of those who allegedly "make" it.
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 28 July 2020 20: 48 New
            +1
            So it seems that the Americans do not want to extend START 3. If they do not, then we will not have restrictions on the number of warheads.
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 21: 03 New
              +5
              Well, that's what we need to have more ICBMs and on all SLBMs to bring the number of BB to the maximum. And also to make a small-sized mobile ICBM, and not engage in sawing.
              1. alstr
                alstr 29 July 2020 10: 05 New
                0
                However, there is one caveat. In order to somehow neutralize Poseidon at a cost of about 100 billion rubles, the United States and NATO will have to spend as much (if not more) trillions of dollars.
                And if you take another Petrel, then this is the same amount.
                Plus, do not forget that to service this whole business you need people and, again, money.

                So we think that it is more profitable: to allow the improvement of missile defense systems or force NATO to spend money on countering new threats?
                1. timokhin-aa
                  timokhin-aa 29 July 2020 10: 06 New
                  +8
                  In order to neutralize Poseidon, the United States does not need to spend anything in excess of what they spend on PLO.
                  This is the main focus. They really don't have missile defense.
                  And they have PLO.
                  1. alstr
                    alstr 29 July 2020 10: 30 New
                    -1
                    Maybe it is. But it is exactly the same as the air defense - full of holes (we remember how the air defense on 11.09 screwed up).
                    The trick here is that the line of safe interception shifts both in distance and in place. There is a difference - to scan a narrow sector or all 360 degrees.

                    To be closer to the specifics, the United States needs, at least in the Pacific Ocean, to build a network of PERMANENTLY operating sensors (to detect Poseidon) is not the biggest problem, but to create a network, again, PERMANENTLY operating for possible destruction at a SAFE distance - that's this is the main problem.

                    And ships cannot solve this problem, because they are highly dependent on the weather.
                    And the length of the line to protect the Pacific coast (excluding Alaska) is at least 3,5-4 thousand km. Detection range of sensors up to 100 km. For guaranteed - 30-50 km. Those. you need about 70 to 100 base points only for sensors. And to destroy you need something like a Squall, but also deep-sea. Squall range - 13 km.
                    Those. you need to put launchers with anti-torpedoes (and deep-water ones) approximately every 10 km. Or if we take the fastest torpedo (Mk48 Mod 5 speed 100 km / h and range 38 km) USA, then every 30-40 km (and in fact even less). That is, one detection point requires 2 to 5 launch points.
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      timokhin-aa 29 July 2020 11: 49 New
                      +6
                      the detection range of SSBNs on the secondary acoustic signature in the 60s was up to 6000 km.
                      Poseidon will be smaller, with all its noise, but in any case, it is guaranteed detection from a THOUSAND kilometers of range with an error of several tens of kilometers.
                      Further, BPA planes are sent to the search area, they will not have any problems to find this noisemaker, if only the software in the PPS makes it possible to understand at all that this is not a glitch, but a real goal. But they will update the software.

                      Then there are the standard four approaches to determine the exact EDC and calculate the aiming point, then the attack from the bow heading angles.

                      And that's all.

                      If they finish their anti-torpedoes, then anti-torpedoes, if not, that the YaGB will reactivate and get her.

                      By the way, all projected American anti-torpedoes have a highly compressed small-diameter body but a super-powerful power plant.
                      This is only necessary for hitting very deep and very high-speed objects.

                      This is by the way.
                      1. alstr
                        alstr 29 July 2020 12: 37 New
                        0
                        And will it work in any weather (accurate target detection)?
                        Hardly. Because and planes and torpedoes (by dropping) have their own weather restrictions.
                        And with the detection, not everything is so rosy.
                      2. timokhin-aa
                        timokhin-aa 29 July 2020 12: 38 New
                        +5
                        Will be. The Americans' RSL are tuned to the weather right in flight.
                      3. alstr
                        alstr 29 July 2020 12: 48 New
                        -2
                        The question is: will the plane take off and will it be able to throw a torpedo into a storm?

                        And don't forget about the reaction time.
                      4. timokhin-aa
                        timokhin-aa 30 July 2020 13: 51 New
                        +2
                        Yes. They have a long range and refueling in the air, it will be necessary - they will take off from somewhere calm, with a 4-fold superiority in cruising speed over the target, they can afford it.
                        The weather does not affect the torpedo, it enters the water instantly and no longer floats.

                        Reaction time - well, consider that the SSNS acoustics missed the Poseidon launch and immediately threw information about it into the radio beacon.

                        Then Poseidon needs to swim 3-4 thousand km at a speed of 180 km / h. How long will he swim?
                        And how fast will a jet plane with a flight speed of 800 km / h be on its course?
                      5. alstr
                        alstr 30 July 2020 14: 34 New
                        0
                        About does not affect - this is an exaggeration.
                        Again, high-altitude launch systems have just begun to enter service. Plus, they still have their own weather restrictions (well, something like a rocket with small wings cannot fly in any weather).

                        Secondly, in order to make an additional search, you need to go down, and this is also not possible in all weather conditions.
                      6. timokhin-aa
                        timokhin-aa 30 July 2020 18: 47 New
                        +2
                        The weather is not affected. The R-8 was specially created as a weatherproof one, where augmented reality technology is used for blind landing. That is, the pilot does not need to see anything, only the wind can be a problem, but the aircraft, which has determined the course and speed of the target, can reach the aiming point downwind with a decrease. No problem, don't get your hopes up.

                        On the other hand, what kind of strategic superweapon is this for big money, which needs a storm on the route of use or the enemy will sink it? Isn't it too much?
            2. demos1111
              demos1111 30 July 2020 10: 13 New
              0
              Anderson's Tales. To create a countermeasure weapon, you must at least roughly know the parameters of the attacked target.
              Tell me 1000 meters is the working depth or the maximum depth for Poseidon? For example, the harpsichord floats much deeper. It will be miracles if Poseidon swims 1000 meters, and as soon as he heard a torpedo coming at him (or do you think he is blind and deaf) dives, say, up to 2000 meters, leaves the track, returns to the working depth.
              How to catch Poseidon under the ice?
            3. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 30 July 2020 13: 56 New
              +1
              Tell me 1000 meters is the working depth or the maximum depth for Poseidon?


              Working. He can go deeper if necessary. But closer to the target there are several hundred kilometers where there are no such depths. In general, through the zone where it will be possible to get it even from the ship, it will take him four hours to saw. And about his approach to it will be known for at least a day.

              (or do you think he's blind and deaf)


              At speed under water, any object is blind and deaf, this is physics. The submarine does not hear anything already at 20 nodes, and there is a GAK antenna the size of a country house, a powerful computing complex and a team of professional acousticians.

              And Poseidon has an autopilot with an echo sounder.

              How to catch Poseidon under the ice?


              If I give you an explanation of how Poseidon is launched, then I can make myself problems. Let's just say - on the theater where the ice is, to the zone where you can launch Poseidon is too far to go.

              Therefore, the military unit where these devices will be stored and serviced is being created (right now, yes) in a completely different place, where there is no pack ice, but there is an ice-free port.
        2. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 29 July 2020 22: 09 New
          +2
          Quote: alstr

          To be closer to the specifics, the United States needs, at least in the Pacific Ocean, to build a network of PERMANENTLY operating sensors (to detect Poseidon) is not the biggest problem, but to create a network, again, PERMANENTLY operating for possible destruction at a SAFE distance - that's this is the main problem.


          There is such a wisdom: "You must not be afraid of a knife, you must be afraid of a man with a knife" ...
          So, if interpreting the above wisdom, then you do not need to look for "Poseidon" in the sea.
          You just have to not give a chance to the Poseidon carrier.
          To keep a submarine near one of our naval base, where exactly both potential carriers of Poseidon will be based - 3-5 nuclear submarines on constant duty.
          That's all.

          They have these boats like firewood.
          In extreme cases, they will be removed from duty in the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean. and redirected to the Arctic.
          This will be enough. For complete total control over the carrier.
          Hard escort of the exit.
          Active operating mode of the GAS.
          Constant deliberate actions to maneuver in dangerous proximity, up to collisions.
          Constant attack simulations.
          Practical torpedo strikes.
          This will be a situation where a botanist will go out into the yard, and there is a flock of punks who constantly "screw up" him, give him bream, spit on his back and face ...
          And no one will protect him.

          And if our SSBNs they accompany "quietly", sometimes opening up. for example, when on our SSBN they practice the occupation of the launch corridor and movement along it, at that moment they defiantly open the lids of the torpedo tubes ...
          Making it clear that the SSBN is in sight.

          But here, in the case of Poseidon, it will not be quietly.
          Here it will be as brazen as punks.

          And we cannot change anything.


          Don't destroy a tank battalion.
          Just destroy the rear group, a couple of tankers, and all the tanks will stand up in 2-3 days.
          no need to destroy planes, just destroy the airfield infrastructure, the barracks for the BAO and the planes will not take off

  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 28 July 2020 21: 03 New
    +5
    Quote: tralflot1832
    I had a teacher of the English language at my school. The phrase she said, I remember for the rest of my life! Let me eat less sausage, but we have one more warhead than the Americans! Holy woman.

    When you were told this, there was another country, this one was betrayed and sold along with the holiness of this woman.
    1. Kart
      Kart 29 July 2020 08: 52 New
      +3
      That is, then it was possible to "eat less sausage" for the sake of weapons, but now it is impossible?
      And, yes, then it was "for all the good", but now it's the other way around.
    2. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 3 August 2020 21: 15 New
      -1
      When you were told this, there was another country, this one was betrayed and sold along with the holiness of this woman.

      So far, it is you in every article in the comments trying to betray it.
      And you will continue to betray.
      They stole everything from you, sold it off, walk around in sandals, reset everyone to zero, no pensions and other garbage ... This is yours ...
  • New
    New Year day 28 July 2020 23: 29 New
    +5
    Quote: tralflot1832
    Let me eat less sausage, but we have one more warhead than the Americans

    “We cannot continue to invest billions of dollars in the military while ordinary families struggle to make ends meet. The hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on pointless and obsolete military training can be wasted on healthcare, schools and infrastructure. This would help build a safer, more peaceful and prosperous country. "
    US Senator Bernie Sanders proposed to sequester the US defense budget by 10% and allocate the released $ 74 billion to support ordinary Americans affected by the coronavirus.
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 28 July 2020 23: 40 New
      0
      Sanders is still that fun to arrange a honeymoon in Yaroslavl. I have a question gnawing From Reagan to this day, at least one of their president has cut money for the Pentagon. Europe that did smart after the collapse of the USSR. Less for defense, free money for the development of themselves. My opinion who will cut the money to the Pentagon that will be the fate of Kenedy.
      1. New
        New Year day 28 July 2020 23: 45 New
        +9
        Quote: tralflot1832
        In my opinion, who will cut the money to the Pentagon will face the fate of Kenedy.

        request Half of American voters support a 10% cut in military spending if all of the savings go to help the poor.
        Everything flows and everything changes
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 28 July 2020 23: 47 New
          -1
          Has he retired in favor of Biden yet?
          1. New
            New Year day 28 July 2020 23: 51 New
            +4
            Quote: tralflot1832
            Has he retired in favor of Biden yet?

            intrigue! The closer the stronger
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 28 July 2020 23: 55 New
              0
              Again, the systemic. The people seem to be tired of the same faces. They can shoot like Trump 4 years ago.
  • Interlocutor
    Interlocutor 3 August 2020 21: 13 New
    0
    Holy woman

    Unambiguously saint
  • demo
    demo 28 July 2020 20: 10 New
    +8
    Patriot does not mean idiot.yes
    Nobody cancels critical thinking, neither with patriotism, nor with any other "change".
    I've been watching various videos on YouTube for two weeks.
    Where specialists of different levels, both in the field of rocketry and in the field of nuclear weapons, give their arguments.
    And what I said is just my inner conviction confirmed by someone else's authority.

    I remember, in the days of my Komsomol youth, there was such a Strategic Defense Initiative. The homeland of this initiative is the United States.
    They also featured multi-consoles.
    And our Politburo and all the Central Committee of the CPSU believed this rubbish.
    Well, everything is clear. The USSR began to invest in counter-weapons. And it didn't even have to be created.
    So SDI hit our pockets hard.
    We need to create weapons.
    And not for defense, but attack.
    It's always cheaper.

    And we are trying to copy someone else's successful experience.
    Only this trick with the Americans will not work.
    They will pretend to believe in the threat for their population.
    And additional appropriations will go to the Pentagon.
    In reality, they naturally do not believe in this canoe.

    Sometimes one gets the impression that the US and Russian administrations are playing on the same half of the field with one goal.
    And we, the people of our countries, think that there is irreconcilable enmity between us.

    It is not for nothing that our president mentions the word patriotism anyway.
    And he would like to raise it to the rank of a national idea.
    But as I said earlier, patriotism is the level of a person's self-awareness and his attitude to events in his country.
    And the national idea is the goal. It may be close and objective, or it may be radiant, but distant.
    Salty and long should not be mixed.

    But our president can do nothing like that.
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 28 July 2020 20: 29 New
      +5
      I agree. With regard to the extreme phrase, it can be assumed that ventilation in the bunker is floundering, and systematic oxygen starvation depressing mental abilities. Well, or "Argentine cement" is already served there. lol
    2. NordUral
      NordUral 29 July 2020 01: 08 New
      +1
      Sometimes one gets the impression that the US and Russian administrations are playing on the same half of the field with one goal.
      And we, the people of our countries, think that there is irreconcilable enmity between us.
    3. nickname7
      nickname7 29 July 2020 19: 24 New
      +1
      But in the states there is no analogue of such a shameful phenomenon as the anti-Soviet sect (liberals). Their patriotism is real. In the Russian Federation, by the forces of liberals controlling the media, patriotism is ridiculed and presented as an absurd relic, this is a big difference.

      It is not for nothing that our president mentions the word patriotism anyway.
      And he would like to raise him to the rank of a national idea

      Here it is necessary to somehow be defined, patriotism is not compatible with Solzhenitsen and Alekseeva



      It seems weak that Trump was shaking hands with any leader who defends the need to surrender to the British colony. That is why they have real patriotism.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. sevryuk
      sevryuk 29 July 2020 19: 20 New
      0
      That's right. Soon the Euroassociation will start working (it’s time to start in 6 years, right?), Pensions will be 2000 euros, salaries will be 5000 ... You are lucky, fellow
  • sevryuk
    sevryuk 29 July 2020 19: 17 New
    0
    Whether it was under EBN and Kozyrev - rural schools just flourished!
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 28 July 2020 18: 04 New
    +4
    Both Poseidon and Petrel are our asymmetrical Yankee response to their punching potential.
    Because we are not going to "catch up" with them in the imposed arms race. Economies are too different ...
    That is why we act according to the principle: - "And my baby has one interesting little thing ..." (c).
    And about the fact that
    in the West, the Russian nuclear-powered missile and nuclear drone are called strike weapons (offensive weapons).
    Nope ... In the West they were dubbed "flying and floating Chernobyl" - this is what the author should have known! bully
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 28 July 2020 18: 30 New
      +1
      hi The weapon "Poseidon" seems to be strategic, but the carriers from the well-known one or two have run out, it is more convenient for the enemy to follow what and where.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 July 2020 18: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        hi The weapon "Poseidon" seems to be strategic, but the carriers from the well-known one or two have run out, it is more convenient for the enemy to follow what and where.

        If you believe the article, then 2M39 will be 32 units. If based on the fact that there are 2 BC for each carrier, then they will not stop at Belgorod and Khabarovsk. At least 4 units are needed: 2 each for the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet. (Better, of course, 3 carriers per fleet: 1 - at the BS, the 2nd is preparing, the 3rd PPR after autonomy ... And so - in a circle, with replacement crews ...).
        And little will seem to anyone!
        ("And Schaub did not shake his head!" (C) - GY laughing )
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 20: 23 New
          +5
          then they will not stop at Belgorod and Khabarovsk


          That's right, the guys in the GUGI (and these things will be under the GUGI, not the Navy) also need admiral posts.
          The fact that these ones will mean unbuilt SSGNs, MPLA, etc. - do not care, right?
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 28 July 2020 19: 09 New
      -2
      Quote: BoA KAA
      Both Poseidon and Petrel are our asymmetrical Yankee response to their punching potential.

      Here's what I thought ... the topic of climate weapons has been discussed since the days of the USSR. And I think that the same amount of work is being done on this weapon. The same HAARP in the USA and our SURA ... suffice it to recall, for example, Operation Popeye in Vietnam by the Americans, or the Super-meteotron installation ..
      In 1979, a more advanced Supermeteotron device was developed in the USSR and built in the Armenian SSR near Lake Sevan. Experiments on the formation of artificial precipitation were carried out by the Armenian anti-hail paramilitary service. In it, hot air was created by exhaust turbojet aircraft engines. In total, this meteotron consisted of six engines from the Tu-104 aircraft, the air in the installation was heated up to 1100 degrees and was thrown upward at a speed of over 500 m / s, the power of the installation exceeded one gigawatt

      That is, since then, not only we and the United States have been working on such weapons. And certainly such a presentation will not be such a weapon to the whole world. Moreover, in secrecy, it is in no way inferior to bacteriological weapons. You also don't understand where it came from.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 July 2020 19: 25 New
        0
        Quote: NEXUS
        You also don't understand where it came from.

        Andrew, hi
        My friend, you forget about the satellite-r. And they have IR and UV sensors, and even more "sensuous" detectors on the radio trail ... So, where they will fly from, they will definitely determine, we do not live in the Stone Age! laughing
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 28 July 2020 19: 28 New
          0
          Quote: BoA KAA
          Andrew,

          Sasha hi
          Quote: BoA KAA
          So, where it will fly from, they will definitely determine that tea is not in the Stone Age, we live!

          Not a fact, because the means of destruction can also be different. So sensors and monitoring are not a panacea at all.
          After a nuclear strike, the earth will be unfit for life for some time, but if, say, a hurricane passes in a separate area in half with a series of earthquakes and showers of unprecedented strength ... then this land will remain usable when the dust settles.
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 28 July 2020 19: 40 New
            +3
            Quote: NEXUS
            the means of destruction can also be different. So sensors and monitoring are not a panacea at all.

            Andrey, nuclear power plants without biosecurity, but in water or in the air ... This is such a "riot of colors" in the sky !!! (The counter will go crazy from their flight! Even krypton with argon will not have time to disperse!) Therefore, the combat use of data beaters, possibly in response, or very on the eve of the RNU in crap-hegemony-exceptional.Against the background of radioactive pollution of the atmosphere and the decommissioning of the space echelon of the early warning system ... they will be the very thing!
            (And Schaub did not shake his head! Up to the tomatoes! Yes, with a turn around the base !!! - Oh, how militaristic. However laughing )
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 28 July 2020 19: 41 New
              -1
              Quote: BoA KAA
              Oh, how militaristic. However )

              You become bloodthirsty with age, however. laughing
              1. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 28 July 2020 19: 44 New
                +4
                Quote: NEXUS
                You become bloodthirsty with age, however.

                Just tired of waiting for Yellowstone to gasp!
                Or when Texas sends everyone in the forest and starts feeding itself, and not a bunch of lazy niggas or Latinos!
                (I'm already a racist !? laughing )
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 28 July 2020 19: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: BoA KAA
                  (Is it me already - a racist !? or what ???)

                  Quiet quiet ... you still hook the women with their rights, and as if they will drag you to the collars of the poor fellow. laughing I don't even want to talk about any minorities.
                  So the advice is even black tea, call it NOT green. wassat
                  1. Boa kaa
                    Boa kaa 28 July 2020 19: 48 New
                    0
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    even black tea, call it NOT green.

                    So I switched to it ... Antioxidants, you know ... fellow
        2. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 28 July 2020 20: 40 New
          +1
          The first wave to use Petrels and Poseidons is stupid just because of the IZS. And the second wave can be against the background of fires on the ground and charred electronics on the IZS. But then the question arises how they will find targets. With Poseidon, it is more understandable. No wonder Amber across all seas There is practically no home. I am of the opinion that the American AUG is also the second wave. Maybe these things are against them.
          1. bar
            bar 28 July 2020 21: 32 New
            +1
            I am of the opinion that American AUG is also the second wave. Maybe these things are against them.

            Who needs these AUGs? They do not pose a serious threat to Russia even in peacetime. And in the event of a serious mess, they even have no bases left where they can return and replenish supplies. So in the sea and will die of hunger, "Flying Dutchmen"
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 28 July 2020 21: 44 New
              +1
              In order for the AUG to find aviation kerosene earlier, the aviation of the Navy burned it down, and now there is so much of that aviation in the Navy. According to satellites, a mystery shrouded in darkness.
              1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Ren
            Ren 29 July 2020 06: 40 New
            +1
            Quote: tralflot1832
            It is not for nothing that Amber walks all the seas; there is practically no home.

            In April 2020, the Yantar ship arrived at the Yantar Baltic shipyard. Repairs are carried out within the framework of a seven-year warranty. hi
    3. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 20: 19 New
      +4
      Poseidon is not a weapon at all, this thing is not applicable in a real war.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 July 2020 21: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Poseidon is not a weapon at all, this thing is not applicable in a real war.
        Well, our General Staff and Supreme Command are apparently not a decree for you, let's go from the other side: stop
        It is not clear: why were the Yankees so excited?
        They already demand to close the development, they took great care of our finances (Oh, how!)
        And they plan to add SALT-4 to the new contract ...
        If this is not a weapon, why are they so itching to? Was it possible that universal philanthropy, instead of general bombing, overwhelmed them?
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 22: 15 New
          +8
          It is not clear: why were the Yankees so excited?


          Have you seen the ocean currents map? How will the "dirt" from Poseidon spread all over the world? And even if there is no explosion of the warhead, but just in case of an accident?
          And if "Khabarovsk" is drowned like "Kursk"? Are there several Poseidons with reactors?
          They are not in vain worried.

          And they plan to add SALT-4 to the new contract ...


          They want to bring in "Sarmat", "Vanguard" and "Dagger" much more.
          And that is what they basically meant by "new weapons systems." Because these are the things they should be afraid of. And they are afraid.

          And yes, Poseidon is the start of a new stage in the arms race. Only at the end of the day we will be sitting with an idle mega-torpedo, and those who climb into it after us - with robots capable of crossing the ocean and secretly placing a nuclear mine in Severomorsk.

          Because, unlike us, other nations tend to think with their heads.
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 29 July 2020 17: 46 New
            +1
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            unlike us, other nations tend to think with their heads.
            Jews - yes, but about the rest ... I have not met the thinking ones very much lately.
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            there will be no explosion warhead, but just in case of an accident?

            WOW-6 departed the whole company and there was no gag. Why is 2M39 sure to become emergency? Or did you never have to heat the emergency BZ? And the launch of the power plant will be at the moment the product leaves the carrier.
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            And if "Khabarovsk" is drowned like "Kursk"? Are there several Poseidons with reactors?
            And if aliens arrive? And why do you think that the products by the time of "Detection-attack-flooding" will calmly wait for the Mk-48 on board 0985.31? I think by this time they will be performing the "obligatory program" ... And at the expense of secretly tracking us, and we - in any way, then grandmother Arina's fairy tales to children for the night! I believe Delta will try to secure the RBD ...
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Poseidon is the start of a new stage in the arms race.
            Aha, and Columbia is childish pranks on the meadow!
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            swim across the ocean and secretly place a nuclear mine in Severomorsk.
            And you, tofyats, know for sure the GASN vmb Severomorsk system. And by what forces and means will it be increased in the VO?
            Well, if you are spending the night in the PLB SF, then I have no questions ... laughing
      2. bar
        bar 28 July 2020 21: 34 New
        +1
        What is a "real war"? The one with the "conventional" weapon?
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 29 July 2020 10: 13 New
          +2
          Not necessary. This is the one where they really kill.
          1. bar
            bar 29 July 2020 14: 54 New
            +2
            Then why isn't Poseidon applicable? Doesn't he really kill?
  • Gar
    Gar 28 July 2020 18: 05 New
    +2
    The creation of the Petrel and Poseidon was Russia's response to NATO's eastward expansion, bringing the infrastructure of this military bloc closer to our borders. By scrupulously building the alliance's missile defense system around the borders of Russia. So there is nothing to blame on the mirror if the face is crooked.
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 20: 20 New
      +6
      Poseidon began to be made back in the USSR. Which "NATO to the East?"
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 28 July 2020 21: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Gar
      expansion of NATO to the east, bringing the infrastructure of this military bloc closer to our borders. By scrupulously building the alliance's missile defense system around the borders of Russia. So there is nothing to blame on the mirror if the face is crooked.

      It's just that the Yankers are worried that under the current leadership of our country, by hand, something can fly in the wrong place or torn somewhere in the wrong place, this is not a fig for us to lose, except for the wallpaper in the apartment, but they have no, but well-being.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 28 July 2020 18: 36 New
    +1
    We have a reason to be proud of how these things work. request
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 20: 21 New
      10
      Everything fits well there, in Poseidon hi-tech is only a power plant. These would be achievements and something useful ...
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 28 July 2020 20: 25 New
        0
        200 km per hour under water, the propellers will give such a speed to Poseidon or something super duper.
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 20: 57 New
          +5
          There are no screws
        2. bar
          bar 28 July 2020 21: 43 New
          -3
          K-222 with a displacement of 7000 tons fell 80+ km / h. "Cavitating torpedoes" A squall with a 150-kt warhead knocks down 300+ km / h. So 200 km / h at Poseidon is quite real.
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 28 July 2020 21: 50 New
            +3
            I also adored the squall before. But when I learned the performance characteristics, my opinion changed. Especially the fact that the squall at such a speed does not see anything ahead of itself. It all depends on the skill of the navigator and his calculations.
            1. bar
              bar 29 July 2020 15: 09 New
              0
              I do not insist because I am far from that. Yes, and "Poseidon" does not have to bring down the entire route at maximum speed.
              1. tralflot1832
                tralflot1832 29 July 2020 15: 27 New
                0
                Also true. Will the time come to know what Poseidon is?
          2. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 29 July 2020 10: 14 New
            +5
            Cavitation at great depths is impossible.
            And the speed is real. But not due to some tricks, but stupidly due to the power. At the same time, such a thing as noise is attached to it. Poseidon will be heard thousands of miles away
            1. bar
              bar 29 July 2020 15: 07 New
              -2
              Poseidon will be heard thousands of miles away

              Firstly, in the ocean at a depth of a kilometer there are such things as thermocline, halocline, pinocline, etc., which greatly change the picture of sound propagation, up to its complete re-reflection in depth.
              Secondly, well, even if they hear him, so what? At this speed and depth, there is still nothing to destroy it.
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 29 July 2020 22: 22 New
                +2
                Quote: bar

                Secondly, well, even if they hear him, so what? At this speed and depth, there is still nothing to destroy it.


                A little reprogramming of Captor will provide an excellent opportunity to reasonably drop tens of mines along Poseidon's route.
                And yes, Captor is now landing 3000 feet deep, which is the same kilometer.
                And his torpedo knows how to go to the lead point.
                1. bar
                  bar 30 July 2020 07: 52 New
                  -1
                  Well done, I almost won, I almost give up laughing
                  I just have a couple of comments. Captor is a bottom mine, the maximum depth of which is 914 m. This time. And two - the speed of the "torpedo" that this mine releases is only 52 km / h. But this is all nonsense, of course. Talented striped programmers, by a small reprogramming, will bring the depth to 2000 meters, and the speed to 200 km / h laughing
  • Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 28 July 2020 18: 39 New
    +1
    All doubts will be dispelled when someone decides to "check" on their own skin!
  • 123456789
    123456789 28 July 2020 20: 16 New
    -8
    No one else has anything comparable today: both Poseidon and Petrel, at least, will be allowed to aim AUGi not 500, not 1000 km away, but anywhere in the world ocean and in bases, and destroy at any time, and this is expensive worth it!
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 21: 09 New
      12
      Poseidon also has retractable tracks, if anything he gets to the target on the ground.
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 28 July 2020 21: 25 New
        +7
        You can shove "Poseidon" into the "Petrel", and you get a super-super-missile. bully
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 29 July 2020 10: 15 New
          +4
          On the contrary, the Petrel in Poseidon.
          Here, in the news, the zhurnalamers suggested putting the Zircon anti-ship missile into Poseidon instead of the warhead. But you can go further.
      2. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 28 July 2020 21: 57 New
        -1
        You gave away a military secret, but in the tracks it is for the Swedes. wassat
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 28 July 2020 21: 47 New
      +7
      Quote: 123456789
      No one else has anything comparable today: both Poseidon and Petrel, at least, will be allowed to aim AUGi not 500, not 1000 km away, but anywhere in the world ocean and in bases, and destroy at any time, and this is expensive worth it!

      The Petrel will be waiting for the enemy under water, and the Poseidon will be in space. Koroche Khan to the Americans, the dollar is dead, Yellowstone is about to explode, America will be washed away by the wave and we will live.
      1. Harry.km
        Harry.km 31 July 2020 14: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Stroporez
        America will be washed away by the wave and we will heal.

        We will not live, because where will we get the dollars to buy everything in China?
    3. bar
      bar 30 July 2020 10: 35 New
      +1
      These AUG were given to you. Why develop whole classes of new weapons to keep those unwanted "elusive Joes" at gunpoint?
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 28 July 2020 20: 21 New
    +5
    A little time will pass and, to the horror of amers, Poseidon will begin to modernize. They will "teach" to jump out of the water and hit a target from above, as well as, without rising to the surface, gnaw through the earth hundreds of kilometers deep into the mainland.
    1. Malyuta
      Malyuta 28 July 2020 20: 29 New
      +6
      Quote: 7,62x54
      A little time will pass and, to the horror of amers, Poseidon will begin to modernize. They will "teach" to jump out of the water and hit a target from above, as well as, without rising to the surface, gnaw through the earth hundreds of kilometers deep into the mainland.

      I am very sorry, Comrade, but you told about the modification of "Poseidon-M", but a cartoon has already been shot about "Poseidon-M ++", which not only bites into the ground 250 km horizontally and 5 km vertically, but also On the way, he extracts all the minerals, which he sends to the homeland to friends of a friend using the Skolkovo nanopager! good
      1. 7,62h54
        7,62h54 28 July 2020 20: 34 New
        +3
        And leave behind a radioactive plume
        1. Malyuta
          Malyuta 28 July 2020 20: 39 New
          +3
          Quote: 7,62x54
          And leave behind a radioactive plume

          Yes sir! Like "petrov" and "vasechkin" wassat
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 28 July 2020 21: 15 New
            +7
            Yes, the tarpaulin-draped pipe has been causing the Patriots premature uh ... joy for two years. Now, when the "impotence of Siberia" is sawn away as unnecessary, how many such "copies" can be "put into service"! And it is not a sin to carry "flour" as "carriers" from Colombia, Peru and Argentina. "Not having analogue" parties! Now, won, handicraft while delivering, in connection with the closure of the regular air "line", so from time to time residents of coastal villages around the world "please", etc. they are introduced to "torch culture". laughing

            1. Interlocutor
              Interlocutor 3 August 2020 21: 19 New
              0
              Now, when the "impotence of Siberia" is sawn away as unnecessary, how many such "copies" can be "put into service"!


              Shaw, have you stolen something again?
  • Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 28 July 2020 20: 24 New
    +6
    In this situation, the Burevestnik will calmly bypass the remaining air defense and missile defense systems, if they survive, and will strike.

    This writer is a great optimist.
  • timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 20: 25 New
    11
    This is from Maxim Klimov (Fizik M here on VO):

    And now the FACTS:
    Obviously, the planned breakthrough of the Poseidon, which was planned back in the USSR, was impossible without a massive nuclear missile destruction of the enemy's anti-submarine warfare system in the theater of operations. But from a military point of view, it was much more expedient to use these same warheads, instead of "boiling water", to use against important enemy targets.
    It seems that the reason for the decision to create a super torpedo in the USSR in the 1980s was hysteria in the country's political leadership, caused by the advertising characteristics of the Reagan SDI. Does anyone still believe in these tales? Why invest huge amounts of money in a deliberately dead-end system today? Wouldn't it be better to direct them, for example, to increase the combat stability of the existing strategic triad?
    And finally, the main thing. The expert points out: “No one can stop you from making sure that in the event of the defeat of Poseidon, in the last moment of its existence, it detonates a thermonuclear multi-megaton charge. The operation of the warhead of a super torpedo during its death will have catastrophic consequences for countries located near the explosion region and anti-submarine borders: Norway, England, Japan, and will also disorganize the PLO system in this operationally important area, thereby facilitating its overcoming by torpedoes, as follows for the deceased. "
    The problem is that since the 1980s, the enemy's ASW lines actually began directly from our bases and, accordingly, the indicated explosion would occur right off our shores. Yes, the triggering of all "dirty" most powerful warheads even on the territory of the Russian Federation will have catastrophic consequences for the planet, but then why drive them across the ocean and place them on carriers that are likely to be sunk?
    There is simply no talk about the adequacy of the idea itself. Especially taking into account paragraphs. 1 and 3 Art. 35 of the Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions of 12 of August 1949 of the year adopted by 8 of June of 1977 of the year: “1. In the event of any armed conflict, the right of parties to the conflict to choose methods or means of warfare is not unlimited. ... 3. It is forbidden to use methods or means of warfare that are intended to inflict or, as might be expected, inflict extensive, long-term and serious damage to the natural environment. "
    https://nvo.ng.ru/concepts/2019-03-22/1_1038_poseidon.html
    and a large article on VO on "the same topic"
    https://topwar.ru/155207-statusnyj-tupik.html
  • timokhin-aa
    timokhin-aa 28 July 2020 20: 48 New
    13
    Author, I hope you have the courage to respond to this comment. You write:

    The 2M39 Poseidon autonomous unmanned underwater vehicle with a nuclear power plant is positioned as a response to the American missile defense system. The program involves the creation of a multipurpose autonomous vehicle capable of carrying a variety of payloads - incl. high-yield thermonuclear warhead.


    This is a strategic torpedo and it has one load - a high-power thermonuclear charge. She will not carry anything else.
    Elementary logic - there was a conveyor car for the product on state purchases, it has 8 axles, with a known carrying capacity of the wheelset and at least an approximate estimate of the mass of the car without cargo, the order of the numbers denoting the mass of the product is easily determined.
    It significantly exceeds one hundred tons.
    Next, we take the photo that you posted, starting from other objects in the photo, determines the dimensions of Poseidon.
    From them density.
    From density - how much buoyancy provides the Archimedean force.
    From this - how much additional lifting force on the hull must be taken from somewhere so that this thing does not sink.
    Next, we take a textbook on the design of torpedoes and consider the minimum possible speed to obtain such a lift.
    And we understand that this thing can either fly at full speed, or drown.
    This means that there are no load options other than the SpetsBCH.
    I do not quote the figures, because this topic is being monitored, and very painstaking ones can go to the FSB, but according to this algorithm, anyone can check everything.

    Considering the well-known performance characteristics of Poseidon, namely the fact that the immersion depth of the device is up to 1 km, the maximum speed is about 200 km / h, and it has practically unlimited cruising range, it can be assumed that the main targets for the Russian marine drone will be military maritime infrastructure of the US Navy, located on the coast. As you know, the United States mainly relies on its own navy, which is currently the strongest in the world.


    Is it okay that NSNF will already work in these places? There are such bases as Kitsap (formerly Bangor), San Diego - they cannot be left, especially the first one.
    I list only the Pacific Ocean, because there will never be submarines with Poseidons on the Atlantic theater of operations, for reasons known to all interested ones.
    That is, while Poseidon is rowing across the ocean, his goals will already end. The question arises - why is he then?

    And this has not yet revealed such a question as the fundamental ability of an automatic device to pass, for example, along the Juan de Fuca Bay to the naval bases. Have you, the author, seen the maps of the United States? Have you seen how far from the coast in different bays are hidden the most important bases?

    A strike by even one Poseidon carrying a nuclear warhead along the US coast will lead to huge losses, and if we consider that the Russian Navy plans to put into service up to 32 underwater drones, several Poseidons can make the coastline deserted, including coastal cities ...


    Only there everything will already be destroyed.

    Another target of autonomous naval vehicles may be American aircraft carrier groups. And the absence of torpedoes capable of destroying Poseidon in service with the US Navy and its allies make it practically invulnerable.


    At one time, missile-carrying regiments missed the AUG, lost their target, and there were living people, moreover, with training that no one in the world had.
    And then a torpedo with an echo sounder and an inertial navigation system will find the AUG itself, classify it as a target, calculate the approach, reach the target, determine the Main target in the order, slip through to the range of defeat and explode.

    Don't make people laugh with these stories.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 28 July 2020 21: 34 New
      +8
      Author, I hope you have the courage to respond to this comment
      This is not an author, this is a propagandist. Colleague of Kharaluzhny. It will be you here with the commentators to fight to the last. The propagandists do not bother with answers. The main thing is to crow louder to the delight of the hamsters. And they will not be able to answer.
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 28 July 2020 21: 43 New
        +2
        Quote: Undecim
        The propagandists do not bother with answers. The main thing is to crow louder to the delight of the hamsters. And they will not be able to answer.

        Now Lopatov will come and explain everything to everyone and settle it! wassat
      2. demos1111
        demos1111 30 July 2020 15: 46 New
        0
        And when they take a warhead and wrap it in cobalt, while they shy away from both sides, then even cockroaches will not live all over America, both North and South. You are not very attentive, you were told directly why we need a world without Russia.
        Read about very dirty cobalt bombs on the net. Information is the sea.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 30 July 2020 16: 47 New
          0
          Read about very dirty cobalt bombs on the net.
          I read about very dirty cobalt bombs when you were not yet designed, even judging by the style of presentation.
          As for the "world without Russia", this is a fairy tale for hamsters like you, Petya.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 29 July 2020 10: 22 New
      +4
      Quote: timokhin-aa
      And then a torpedo with an echo sounder and an inertial navigation system will find the AUG itself, classify it as a target, calculate the approach, reach the target, determine the Main target in the order, slip through to the range of defeat and explode.

      And all this - at high speed, when the GAK will be clogged with its own noises. smile
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 29 July 2020 12: 08 New
        +6
        There is no GAK. There is rather a primitive echo sounder, so that together with the INS and maps of reference areas to make an underwater TERKOM.
        Otherwise, it will crash into the shore in the wrong place.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 July 2020 12: 48 New
          0
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          There is no GAK. There is rather a primitive echo sounder, so that together with the INS and maps of reference areas to make an underwater TERKOM.

          Well, I was describing the "ideal anti-ship Poseidon", which has at least some homing on board for firing at moving targets.
          Because without the SAC, shooting "Poseidons" at the AUG is akin to shooting at the same AUG with ICBMs - maybe you will be lucky and the warhead will explode within the warrant, and near AB.
  • Charik
    Charik 28 July 2020 21: 22 New
    0
    5-7 years ago I heard that (in my opinion) a mini nuclear roofing felts engine roofing felts a reactor in Russia INvented (in my opinion in Voronezh)
  • Operator
    Operator 28 July 2020 21: 41 New
    -9
    The 9M730 "Petrel" cruise missile is supersonic due to the fact that its ramjet engine does not operate at subsonic levels. "Burevestnik" strikes in the second wave after the disorganization of the enemy's air defense / missile defense system by a massive nuclear missile attack by ICBMs and SLBMs, as well as the failure of the enemy's radar and radio communications due to the ionization of the atmosphere from nuclear explosions. "Burevestnik" is designed to engage targets outside the range of ICBMs and SLBMs.

    The diameter of the continuous destruction of ground buildings from the explosion of a 100-Mt warhead of the unmanned underwater vehicle 2M39 Poseidon is 72 km, the diameter of the zone of severe fires is 130 km. Therefore, the primary targets of Poseidon are coastal megacities, million-plus cities and industrial zones, and naval bases are secondary. The length of the ellipse of radioactive fallout is 700 km, but the scale of contamination of the enemy's territory will depend on the direction of the wind at the moment of the explosion - from the sea or from land.
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 28 July 2020 23: 18 New
      +1
      Well, this turns out to be a bright hail on the crystal hill Kerdyk along with the hill. It's not a pity at all. After reading that: there are 3 warheads in Sochi, from 4 to 8 in Murmansk.
      1. Nastia makarova
        Nastia makarova 29 July 2020 12: 17 New
        -2
        there are no military facilities in Sochi)))
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 29 July 2020 12: 41 New
          0
          That's just the point, only the president's residence. am
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 29 July 2020 12: 54 New
            -1
            so why shoot 3 rockets at an empty residence?
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 29 July 2020 13: 10 New
              +1
              You ask them that. They just consider it an important transport hub. And the population is not taken into account. Two ports are packed with yachts, this is a vehicle!
              1. Nastia makarova
                Nastia makarova 29 July 2020 13: 11 New
                -1
                and where can you read about how many missiles and which city?
                1. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 29 July 2020 13: 16 New
                  0
                  Unfortunately, I did not save the link. Probably you need to search for Declassified data.
                  1. Nastia makarova
                    Nastia makarova 29 July 2020 13: 18 New
                    -1
                    if this is the oldest data from the Cold War, then you do not need to search))) they are not relevant
                    1. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 29 July 2020 13: 38 New
                      0
                      No, this is definitely not a Dropshot. There, cruise missiles are also mentioned.
    2. jekasimf
      jekasimf 29 July 2020 13: 04 New
      0
      I wonder how a nuclear power plant and a "ramjet engine" are combined laughing
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 July 2020 13: 08 New
        -3
        In the heating chamber of the Burevestnik ramjet engine there is a lead / air heat exchanger for a nuclear reactor.
  • 123456789
    123456789 28 July 2020 22: 39 New
    -2
    Quote: Stroporez
    Quote: 123456789
    No one else has anything comparable today: both Poseidon and Petrel, at least, will be allowed to aim AUGi not 500, not 1000 km away, but anywhere in the world ocean and in bases, and destroy at any time, and this is expensive worth it!

    The Petrel will be waiting for the enemy under water, and the Poseidon will be in space. Koroche Khan to the Americans, the dollar is dead, Yellowstone is about to explode, America will be washed away by the wave and we will live.

    and to miss such a historical opportunity - to repeat the crimes of the drunk and the marked
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 July 2020 07: 02 New
    +7
    The emergence of the latest Burevestnik cruise missile and the Poseidon autonomous unmanned vehicle in service with the Russian army will allow to neutralize, if not completely, but to a greater extent, the American missile defense system, which the United States is so scrupulously building around Russia.

    And which in its current state is incapable of intercepting 1 (ONE) ICBM with MIRVs.
    To what stage are we intimidated by the American missile defense ...
    1. Dmitry V.
      Dmitry V. 29 July 2020 10: 27 New
      +3
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      To what stage are we intimidated by the American missile defense ...


      Well, it is necessary to somehow explain to ignorant citizens why they should tighten their belts and fork out for weapons?
      Not because the elite of the Russian Federation was "pushed" from a privileged Western club for violating the rules of the game, but because "we are being threatened." And since there is no mass concentration of NATO divisions on the border of the Russian Federation, there is a stir around the ABM systems.
      The best way to intimidate the population is to create a hysteria of "enemies all around" - the "best" thing that Russian political strategists have adopted in the West, a primitive way to keep the population in fear and obedience to the local elite.

      To the intimidated population, it is easier to explain why a nullified irreplaceable guarantor should rule forever, despite the failure in the economy - simple clichés: "enemies are all around", "Russia is against everyone", "who if not him" ...
  • Sailor
    Sailor 29 July 2020 08: 14 New
    0
    Of course, some of them will cope with their tasks, unless they are destroyed by the first blow.
  • demo
    demo 29 July 2020 09: 40 New
    +2
    I am both happy and sad, at the same time, from the realization that we, Russia, have the most advanced types of weapons.
    As they say, they have no analogues in the world.
    I am glad that scientific thought in Russia has not yet been completely bent.
    I love my people - a creator people.
    And I'm sad because the same people do not want to grow up. And as a result - get smarter.

    Weapons, even those hanging on the wall, should go off at the end of the play.
    This is the law of the genre.
    The presence of such a destructive weapon does not automatically mean that your enemy will not seek an antidote.
    He is looking, and God is with him.

    But the question is different.
    Are we ready to use this weapon?
    Let us remember and do not forget that during the time that has passed since the destruction of the USSR, from those remnants that are now called the Russian Federation, according to the most conservative estimates, more than 600 billion dollars have been removed.
    They were taken out by those in power. And it still stands.
    You can't bring money to the bank so easily in the west.
    Complex cleaning and bleaching schemes are required.
    But, oddly enough, they are very well known to the fiscal authorities of the "beacon of democracy".
    And every dollar that comes to the west is controlled by them.
    This is the first.
    Second.
    All those who fled from the justice of the Russian Federation, and not only those who wanted to avoid punishment in their homeland, hope that there, in the west, he will be a respected person. After all, he has money.

    Now let’s imagine for a moment that the situation has turned into hot action.
    What will the authorities of those countries do that have not been attacked, but are entering into a military-political alliance with the country we struck?
    Right.
    All previously arrived citizens of the Russian Federation will be gathered in one or several camps.
    Concentration.

    You say this can not be?
    Even as you can.
    Let us remember the fate of US CITIZENS of Japanese origin.
    From the beginning of World War II, they were placed in camps and remained there until the end of the war.
    The survivors returned home without receiving any compensation or apology from the US government.
    But that was a war, without such global consequences. In our case, the consequences will be extremely fatal.
    This means that our former compatriots will simply be destroyed, out of harm's way.

    Now attention.
    Do our former compatriots know this?
    Without any doubt.
    Do they understand that they will not be allowed to take a step?
    Obviously.
    And they did not sell their property and move back to Russia?
    No, and they are not going to.
    Why?

    BECAUSE NOBODY, NOR DECISION-MAKING CENTERS, NOR THE COUNTRIES HAVING HELD THE ENEMY'S WEAPONS WILL NOT BOMB!

    And our "elite" knows about it and is sure of it.
    Now attention.
    Why create a weapon that no one is going to use?
    It is obvious that this is dangerous for those who are at the helm of our state today.
    What if some patriot who is "not in the subject" will take a fire?
    Therefore, I do not believe that such a weapon was created.
    Dummy.
    Under which giant funds are written off.

    There is no need to talk more on this topic.
    Ludi.
    Get smarter.
    And you will be rewarded.
    You will not look like fools.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 29 July 2020 10: 00 New
    +2
    It is assumed that the targets of the missile will be land infrastructure: ICBM installations, control bunkers, etc.)


    ICBM mines and buried control bunkers will definitely not become targets of the CD - CD does not strike with buried nuclear charges - they cannot tell them a sufficient speed to burrow and produce an underground nuclear explosion /
    This requires a certain kinetic energy imparted by the carrier.
    Accordingly, CDs cannot hit buried protected targets.
  • jekasimf
    jekasimf 29 July 2020 13: 02 New
    +1
    "TTX" Poseidon ", namely, that the depth of immersion of the device is up to 1 km, the maximum speed - about 200 km / h,"
    Is the author friendly with his head? 200 km / h !!! Underwater! Karl! It's not even a rocket torpedo, with a covitation mode!
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 30 July 2020 19: 03 New
      0
      Generally it can. This bulldozer has a nuclear reactor and a turbo-toothed unit, the power there is simply stupid - there are no other words for it. Maybe go.
  • Old26
    Old26 29 July 2020 14: 02 New
    +6
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    And which in its current state is incapable of intercepting 1 (ONE) ICBM with MIRVs.
    To what stage are we intimidated by the American missile defense ...

    Well, it is theoretically capable of intercepting one or two ICBMs of the "Voevoda" type. But not more....
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 29 July 2020 20: 02 New
    -1
    Thus, it can be stated that the Burevestnik cruise missile and the Poseidon autonomous unmanned underwater vehicle are weapons of the "second chance"

    No "second chance"!
    "Poseidons" should be triggered immediately before the launch of an ICBM, destroying the coastal territory of the United States, as well as formations of surface ships at sea and at bases in other countries, at the same time, the missile defense system will be upset by powerful electromagnetic pulses. This leaves little room for retaliation for mattresses.
    Although it would be nice to drill in from the ocean and lay charges under the notorious "decision-making centers", as well as reliably escort striped SLBMs in the sea with the possibility of immediate destruction. Then there will definitely be a guarantee against retaliation.
    #DYADOVAMYSTOBOY
  • Old26
    Old26 29 July 2020 22: 15 New
    +4
    Quote: tralflot1832
    So it seems that the Americans do not want to extend START 3. If they do not, then we will not have restrictions on the number of warheads.

    We will not have restrictions on the number of warheads on the delivery vehicles; there will be restrictions on the delivery vehicles themselves. And not contractual, but purely technical

    Quote: timokhin-aa
    Well, that's what we need to have more ICBMs and on all SLBMs to bring the number of BB to the maximum. And also to make a small-sized mobile ICBM, and not engage in sawing.

    Unfortunately, Alexander, we cannot do this quickly enough. In Russia, there is actually one plant that produces solid-propellant missiles. And all types. And ICBMs, and SLBMs, and Iskander-type OTRK. Taking all this into account, and according to the data of the day of the EPP, we can produce about 50 ICBMs and SLBMs and two Iskander brigade sets per year. Which is also about 50 units.
    Ahead is the replacement of the Topol, which is being removed from service, the Topol-M in the near future, and the manufacture of ammunition for our Boreyevs. And this is at least a hundred Topol / Topol-M. Further. If additional Iskander brigades are deployed, this will further reduce the number of ICBMs / SLBMs being produced. Well, given the US withdrawal from the INF Treaty and the need to deploy MRBMs, I'm afraid we will not increase a significant number of ICBMs very soon ...

    Quote: timokhin-aa
    And they plan to add SALT-4 to the new contract ...


    They want to bring in "Sarmat", "Vanguard" and "Dagger" much more.
    And that is what they basically meant by "new weapons systems." Because these are the things they should be afraid of. And they are afraid.

    And yes, Poseidon is the start of a new stage in the arms race. Only at the end of the day we will be sitting with an idle mega-torpedo, and those who climb into it after us - with robots capable of crossing the ocean and secretly placing a nuclear mine in Severomorsk.

    Because, unlike us, other nations tend to think with their heads.

    "Sarmat" and "Vanguard" one way or another will become part of the systems that will be in the START-4 treaty (if there is one). Yet there is nothing new in these two systems. Intercontinental range carriers. "Dagger" is a very big question. The very range of the "Dagger" when launched from a MiG is about 2000 km. It can be classified as a medium-range weapon rather than an intercontinental one.
    But the "Petrel" and "Poseidon", with their intercontinental range, will somehow fall under the limitations of the START treaty (we will not talk about the efficiency and necessity of these systems).

    Quote: Nastia Makarova
    and where can you read about how many missiles and which city?

    Interest Ask. There is material somewhere on the network (unfortunately, I did not keep the links) on some of the American plans of the mid-50s. There are several hundred pages of EMNIP. There are targets on the territory of the USSR and the airborne countries with the indication of the coordinates of the aiming points. I can say that according to this plan, they planned to strike at my city (Stavropol) with three charges (there are coordinates). So I fully admit that Sochi, as a transport hub, could also be (or is) in the list of goals
  • Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 30 July 2020 02: 26 New
    -1
    A good thing that nullifies the missile defense of Satanists
  • rica1952
    rica1952 30 July 2020 11: 33 New
    0
    Again, the nonsense of a USE graduate.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 30 July 2020 11: 39 New
    0
    The torpedo inspired the West, judging by the press ... and they started thinking. And about the CD they do not understand why it is and why. And I, too, do not understand. It has more hemorrhoids than benefits.
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 30 July 2020 19: 05 New
      0
      It is possible, sooner or later, to make a working nuclear ramjet or a turbojet engine. And this is the first step towards aerospace aviation.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 30 July 2020 20: 39 New
        0
        He's either heavy or radioactive
  • Alexander X
    Alexander X 30 July 2020 20: 46 New
    +1
    Everyone talks about Poseidons and Petrels without any reliable information either about their performance characteristics or about their number ... And who will betray the military secret? And why does everyone think that they do not exist? And why does everyone think that the same Poseidon itself will not swim to the place of waiting for the "start" command? Deza, that they are just being created, allows you to get certain advantages over the enemies ... IMHO ... It's a thankless thing to talk about what and no one has an idea about.
  • CBR600
    CBR600 3 August 2020 15: 11 New
    0
    Explained to our "partners", ATP. We ourselves know =)
    Yes, and finally it’s old developments, which fill the warehouses, but fool their heads. But about new ones, no one here will tell or even ask.
  • alekmi9
    alekmi9 3 August 2020 23: 10 New
    0
    "Poseidon" and "Petrel" like a bone in your throat !? NATO is in shock, I think It is time for them to shut up their threats, starting to talk with Us about peace and friendship!