USAF summed up the results of the tender for the creation of an unmanned wingman

In the Skyborg competition announced by the United States Air Force for the development of an unmanned wingman and a control system, only four companies out of eighteen who submitted applications will take part. As reported by NPlus1 with reference to Flightglobal, the Air Force has decided on the final list of participants.

The Air Force reviewed the companies' bids as part of the Skyborg tender announced in May this year and selected four companies to develop an unmanned wingman for US fighters. Boeing, General Atomics, Kratos Unmanned Aerial Systems and Northrop Grumman received contracts and $ 400 million each to develop, prototype and test the device.

As part of the Skyborg tender, it is planned not only to create relatively cheap unmanned wingmen, but also an artificial intelligence system that will control such devices. At the same time, the US Air Force intends to take stock and adopt Drones already in 2023 year.

Two unmanned wingmen from Kratos and Boeing are already known. The first is developing an unmanned slave XQ-58A Valkyrie commissioned by the US Air Force Research Laboratory. The second is developing an unmanned wingman called Loyal Wingman for the Australian Air Force.

There is still no information about the projects of unmanned slave companies General Atomics and Northrop Grumman.

Comments

[And Makarov]

In my opinion, the amount of 400 million each, for the United States looks like something frivolous. They have everything measured in billions. Or is it "salad before dinner"?

[Vlad T]

I am glad that we are already somewhere ahead, for this is a direct answer to catching up with the S-70. The pace needs to be increased so that the likely enemies catch up with us ...

[Perseverance]

Quote: Vlad T

I am glad that we are already somewhere ahead, for this is a direct answer to catching up with the S-70. The pace needs to be increased so that the likely enemies catch up with us ...

07. 2013

[Vlad T]

It was not visible in conjunction with the F-22 ...

[Grazdanin]

The project is closed, as not promising, the flying wing scheme has too many disadvantages and is too expensive.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

the flying wing scheme has too many disadvantages and

Why is it so bad in your opinion?

[Grazdanin]

It depends on the tasks. If we are talking about long-range reconnaissance or a long-range bomber, then the scheme is suitable. The pluses outweigh the minuses, a large internal volume, a large lifting force allow you to fly far, carry a lot of "gifts" in the internal compartments, low visibility. If we start talking about a slave UAV, operational and tactical reconnaissance, strike UAVs, the disadvantages become critical. Instability during takeoff and landing, poor maneuverability, limited volume of compartments, high price. Moreover, the RCS of the "normal" scheme reaches the values ​​of the flying wing.
C70 is the main complaint, it is not clear what it is for. Extremely expensive, the size of a Su57, with different features from different classes of UAVs. It looks more like a technology demonstrator for the physical development of theoretical developments.
The same USA in UAVs are abandoning the flying wing scheme. We have not heard about new projects, old projects within the army are closed, about the same RQ170 for a long time nothing has been heard.

[Voyager]

Quote: Grazdanin

The project is closed, as not promising, the flying wing scheme has too many disadvantages and is too expensive.

If we are talking about long-range reconnaissance or a long-range bomber, then the scheme is suitable.

It was necessary to begin with this.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Perseverance

Quote: Vlad T

I am glad that we are already somewhere ahead, for this is a direct answer to catching up with the S-70. The pace needs to be increased so that the likely enemies catch up with us ...

07. 2013

Only now the F-18 with brains from the X-47 flew on its own already in 2011 and landed and took off on its own ...

This, too, must not be forgotten ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Vlad T

I am glad that we are already somewhere ahead, for this is a direct answer to catching up with the S-70. The pace needs to be increased so that the likely enemies catch up with us ...

Have you tried looking at the X-47B ???

Well, to get a little smarter ...

[Grazdanin]

Do you know what the sadness is? That this project was brought to service, but the Air Force and the Navy abandoned it, due to the futility of the scheme. And we only teach our analogue to fly.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Grazdanin

Do you know what the sadness is? That this project was brought to service, but the Air Force and the Navy abandoned it, due to the futility of the scheme. And we only teach our analogue to fly.

The thing is different.
In the absence of an understanding of what we want from the drone, and how we will operate it and how it will fly ...

For 10 years I have been talking about the fact that those gambling addicts grew up in America. who played computer strategies in childhood.
And the system of network centricity - grew out of computer games.
the simplest example.
Starcraft first. A single cannon sees 4 squares around itself and shoots accordingly. She cannot see further and cannot shoot further.
If there is another unit, whether it is an airplane or a soldier, who stands on the 6th square and sees 2 more squares, then the cannon will shoot up to that 8th square.
This is the most simplified visualization of network centricity.
Mutually protected unified battlefield.
Where everyone sees what others see in real time.

Data exchange is automatic. mutual.
Whether I want to show it or not.
I see - everyone sees.
And decisions are made by everyone, depending on the expert system.
Which also grew up on commercial products of transnational corporations, on machine analysis of data arrays. All data. Necessary and unnecessary.
They worked out the algorithms.
They had applied tasks.
Remember the story of Asimov (Trap for Simpletons) about the guy from the mnemonic service?
Story aside - the system described in the book is the description of machine analysis.

So, in the United States, these gambling addicts grew up, took important posts in the military-industrial complex and began to promote ideas from games.
And they do it.
They are an order of magnitude or two ahead of all those ideas that we may have.
For we have. toys were considered "unworthy pastime".
Referring to a toy is considered to kill your career.

And already if the general of our Ministry of Defense says. that he was hacked into computer strategies - this is generally the collapse of his career ...
For strategy is only in the General Staff.
And they have the opposite.
Strategy - grew out of games ...

This is the difference - a completely opposite systemic approach to the confrontation system.
We were taught on "examples of personal heroism", and they were taught to "send a dozen drones and crumble everyone" ...

[Grazdanin]

Quote: SovAr238A

America grew up those gambling addicts. who played computer strategies in childhood.

Therefore, I like the topic of UAVs, aerospace, new technologies. It's fun to watch how childhood games and cartoons become reality. But we have in power those born and raised in the USSR, completely cut off from reality. When I communicate with my smart friends whom I have not seen for a long time 2 first questions "What country do you live in now?" "Where are you planning to move?"

Quote: SovAr238A

In the absence of our understanding of what we want from a drone

What is our purpose in space? What is the strategy of the ground forces? Aviation? We do what we can, not what we need. The main thing is to speak louder about the lack of analogues in the world, so that the uryaklam have something to write.
In space, it's just out. SOI 2 has actually already started, we simply have nothing to answer. New strategies for using UAVs simply reset our air defense and fighters.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

When I communicate with my smart friends whom I have not seen for a long time 2 first questions "What country do you live in now?" "Where are you planning to move?"

Moscow? The capital lives in isolation from Russia. By the way, is someone there waiting for them so smart and intelligent?

[Grazdanin]

No, I'm not from Moscow. Rather, the environment was formed that way. Yes, and I work in software development. Over the hill, people from Russia are highly valued. We work a lot, ask a little, bright heads with ideas, straight arms, European mentality. They move from different spheres to different countries. The trend is frightening, not scientists or creative people with programmers are moving, but ordinary people. Truckers, tilers, electricians, plumbers.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

They move from different spheres to different countries. The trend is frightening, not scientists or creative people with programmers are moving, but ordinary people. Truckers, tilers, electricians, plumbers.

Of these, they find themselves and become well-to-do, and there is a small percentage of them. Most of them, like everywhere else, like ours, are busy with survival. And some of the characters are busy for some reason Russian-language resources proving that the rash is a parashka. As it is for some reason does a number of malachol from the "promised land". I've talked with a person since the early 90s living in Haifa. Member of the Lebanese war, etc., he does not suffer from such garbage. He comes to Russian-language sites purely on military-historical issues. And not even in part of the 20th century ... Much earlier ...

[voyaka uh]

1) Kratos has the cheapest option. They have been for many years
produce targets-simulators of cruise missiles for air defense.
Here is one of these cheap targets and turned into a drone.
2) Boeing has an ambitious joint project with Australia.
Australia immediately wants to jump into the sixth generation, bypassing everything
previous ones. And she hired Boeing for this. So obviously there will be something dear
and twisted.
3) General Atomics - manufacturer of Reaper and others. Great experience, but
their babies are very expensive.

[anzar]

Here is one of these cheap targets and turned into a drone.

Those. Does he not (and will not have) cruising supersonic (or supersonic in general)? Whom will he accompany then?

[Grazdanin]

Quote: anzar

Whom will he accompany then?

The cruising speed of fighters in the region of 900 km / h, for this and the calculation

[anzar]

Quote: Grazdanin

Quote: anzar

Whom will he accompany then?

The cruising speed of fighters in the region of 900 km / h, for this and the calculation

And when "cruising" is over, what then? Throw? Or use it as a decoy? (such a small one is not capable of more)

[Grazdanin]

Will carry out their tasks. If necessary, as a decoy target, strike or return to base.
We are talking about a specific project. I am sure that there will be supersonic and hypersonic UAVs.

[voyaka uh]

These attack jet drones do not have supersonic sound.
They should fly like weighty ones at a speed of 08-0.9 MAX together with the F-35,
which are also sharpened at this speed.

[Grazdanin]

In addition to the XQ-58A, Kratos also has a UTAP-22. It will fit in at $ 2-3 million. Now actively tested.

[Grazdanin]

It is already clear that there will be different followers with different tasks. There is a place for everyone. Light cheap to exchange type UTAP-22, something universal type XQ58 or as an Australian project, heavy bomb and missile carrier type MQ-25 modification.

[Grazdanin]

It is strange that nothing has been heard about Israel. USA, Australia and Britain have launched projects. Or, as usual: “Firstly, we have no nuclear weapons, and secondly, if necessary, we will use them.”

[dauria]

It is strange that nothing has been heard about Israel.

Maybe they are working on AI? This is one area where the size of the country is not important. But they know how to come up with and change the tactics of the Air Force in time.
Just thinking - the enemy is not a fool, he will start to come up with a reaction. Like "If the enemy takes a turn, then most likely there are his assistants in an ambush from above. Do not attack without cover from above." In short, the brains should be not so much self-taught as able to quickly learn new "instructions", write down the details of the battle, give them for analysis to people and understand new recommendations.
And this already looks like "thinking in words". In short, a second signaling system is needed. The word is an image in the brain. A picture on the ground is a word.
Long before that, oh long. Without this, a fish that over and over again swallows the hook from which it was just removed.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: dauria

Maybe they are working on AI?

The fact that they work 100%, they are one of the leaders. They can just wait for the pieces of iron. From the series, they still give 3 lard a year, you can buy them. And one does not cancel the other. They quietly do their own thing and wait for the United States to finish the slaves

[Grazdanin]

Quote: dauria

Long before that, oh long.

So for more than 100 years we have been moving towards this, the first drones appeared in the first world war, in the second they already fought.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: dauria

Long before that, oh long. Without this, a fish that over and over again swallows the hook from which it was just removed.

All actions of the pilot can be converted into an action algorithm.
If A. then do B.

If A, K, Y, D - then I do C and Y.

They have a school of machine analysis of data volume. type BigData.
For such corporations as SAN, IBM, etc. have been working in this market for a long time.
And they take exactly commercial projects for their introduction into the military sphere.

There have never been systems of this level in our country. Neither military nor commercial.
It just wasn't.
Accordingly, create something from scratch. where you don't have teachers, it's like having no fulcrum.
There are no starting points of reference.

We have a lot of mathematicians, but there is nothing to develop.

Therefore, in our country there will be no full-fledged machine analysis of decision-making systems for very long.
If any.

[Alex777]

For such corporations as SAN, IBM, etc. have been working in this market for a long time.

Again, write about what you have no idea about.
By the way, I have a photo of myself with the President of Sun Microsystems in my Moscow office and with Scott McNealy (if you know who it is) in their office in San Francisco.
And this company has not existed since 2009.

We have a lot of mathematicians, but there is nothing to develop.

Rjunimagu.
It does not occur to you that people are working, just forgot to report to you?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Alex777

For such corporations as SAN, IBM, etc. have been working in this market for a long time.

Again, write about what you have no idea about.
By the way, I have a photo of myself with the President of Sun Microsystems in my Moscow office and with Scott McNealy (if you know who it is) in their office in San Francisco.
And this company has not existed since 2009.

I worked as a systems analyst at the level of university state research target programs when Sun was still not renamed. Late 90s, early 2000s.
And even then we discussed the development trends of machine analysis systems and the development of BigData in Russia.

Even then, it was believed that we would never catch up.
There is simply no scope of tasks for which targeted development is possible.

[Alex777]

During the period indicated by you, I, on one of the projects, worked with the Computing Center of the RAS.
Academician A.A. Petrov (if this surname says something to you) and his team helped us solve problems.
And information about the directions of development of the IT industry was received directly from the IEEE conferences, which my colleagues attended by personal invitations.

[Alex777]

Maybe they are working on AI? This is one area where the size of the country is not important.

In this area, it is extremely important to have an appropriate "school". Experience and knowledge of "pitfalls" accumulated over decades. We have such a school. Its representatives did not emigrate to Israel.

[tralflot1832]

Boeing with the brains of Mach 737 cannot do anything for a year. And all the same. My forecast will create a wunderfruit that will shoot down its own. One such in the Navy is, which they are afraid to include.

[3danimal]

If you form an opinion according to rumors (having a smartphone or a PC at hand), it will turn out to be a mess. Technical forums to help.
Boeing is ... complete losers. No worldwide sales, no multi-billion dollar capitalization. Most flights on our airlines? Anything but this trash

[Alien From]

The striped beetles will print more money ... while the whole world is working for paper!

[archiroll]

Interestingly, such a concept has the right - the presenter (suicide bomber) leads the front (clearly attracts / reveals the missile defense). When attacking with missiles from air defense, it throws off a certain capsule-drone, which, while still on the glider, begins to complete the task in a truncated version.

[Grazdanin]

No, there is a decoy rocket in front of it, which imitates an aircraft that will shoot down air defense, after which the air defense will be destroyed by slave UAVs.
https://topwar.ru/169010-vms-ssha-namereny-zakazat-raketu-obmanku-dlja-sistem-pvo.html

[Operator]

All the leading countries of the world are developing and producing guided bombs and missiles with the greatest possible range for over-the-horizon shooting (Russia is also hypersonic) and only homosexual African Americans - subsonic UAVs

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Operator

All the leading countries of the world are developing and producing guided bombs and missiles with the greatest possible range for over-the-horizon shooting (Russia is also hypersonic) and only homosexual African Americans - subsonic UAVs

What are you ... Is it true?

Everyone can develop it, but only those who have sufficient means of over-the-horizon detection and target designation can use it.

Russia is not on this list ...
Satellite constellation of secure communications - no.
There are still no drones comparable to the ancient Predator (the device was released in the early 90s) and is not expected ...

Don't say anything about the S-70 Hunter, this is a piece thing, and will never go into production. For the saw is stupid. They couldn't even come up with a concept for him. And without a concept, it is impossible to come up with a scheme of use. There is no experience and no km, and there is no necessary knowledge ...

Note that for the last 80 years, we have not come up with anything that would be breakthrough and would give development in general in aviation.
We kept repeating and catching up.
And with this hypersound - everything is the same.
and with this UAV, they are generally 40-50 years behind ..

This is the truth of life.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: SovAr238A

that for the last 80 years, we have not come up with anything that would be breakthrough and would give development in general in aviation.

I’m looking at the Soviet MiG-25 and the American response to it in the form of the F-15, and I suppose that you somehow got very excited. Well this is so particular ....
I can also recall a working anti-torpedo defense system, no one still has such a toy. Americans have been jumping with Tripwire for many years, but somehow things are not going very well ...

[3danimal]

The MiG-25 is the Soviet response to the SR-71.
The F-15 was superior to it at close and medium distances (there were no others then). And already the answer to "15" was the Su-27. It had some melee advantage and comparable avionics.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: 3danimal

The MiG-25 is the Soviet response to the SR-71.

Completely different classes, yes the Mig 25 was created to destroy such aircraft, but the car turned out to be really breakthrough, during all the 70s MiGs could only be shot down by accident.

[3danimal]

By chance? AIM-7F with 4M speed? It was the F-15 that shot down the MiG-25.
In addition, F had a 1,5 times greater maximum overload (in close combat - the minimum chances). The moment is based on an interceptor, even the radar was from the Tu-128.

[Grazdanin]

Yes. After the F15 appeared, it reached combat units, they learned to fly on it, there was an infrastructure for it, it appeared in the places where the database was maintained, only after that there was a possibility of shooting down, which can be calculated. Therefore, the first downed MiG was in 81, in fairness to 78-79, in theory, they could already shoot down, but the serial production of the MiG 25 was started before the 70s. There were a full 10 years of complete air superiority, but this is only history, modernity and future others.

[Cyril G ...]

The fate of the MiG-25 was strongly influenced in my opinion by the following factors - an overestimated speed requirement, which in turn greatly increased the weight of the airframe. And the lack of understanding of the basics of fighting in the air on the part of the customer, as a result of which the machine, for example, did not receive an electronic warfare station for service.
IMHO MiG-25 is an underestimated and insufficiently understood machine. Alas.

[3danimal]

The speed of the 25th is not much higher than that of the F-15.
The maximum overload is 4,5g. Against 7,5 ...
IMHO, a flawed concept, the continuation of the same Tu-128 line is a low-maneuverable, high-speed interceptor (with a low thrust-to-weight ratio). And this topic was continued, the MiG-31 was adopted.
Now, you just have to use them somehow. Although, even in the most perfect performance, the 31st is inferior to the Su-35 in everything except speed.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: 3danimal

AIM-7F with 4M speed?

RVV-SD were rare in those distant eras. In Vietnam, 5-7 percent, in Iraq, 15-20 percent. See Higby for exact numbers.

Quote: 3danimal

It was the F-15 that shot down the MiG-25.

And the MiG-25 was shot down by Hornet in battle ... I don't remember from the Irano-Iraqi one. But the Iraqi ace Ryan won 4 victories on the MiG-25. The MiG-25 is great - its problem was that it was too fast and therefore heavy.

Quote: 3danimal

(in close combat - minimum chances).

In reality, we could talk about a missile strike of the RVV with TGSN for a short time and then the opponents would disperse

Quote: 3danimal

even the radar was from the Tu-128.

The radar station was changed there. In the 70s on the PD model there was already a Sapfir-25 radar with an AVM-25 computer, capable of detecting targets with an RCS of more than 10 m² at a distance of 100 km, automatically tracking them at a distance of 75 km, and tracking up to 6 targets “on the way” with an angle of view in the horizontal plane ± 56 degrees and in the vertical plane 6 degrees, which has improved capabilities for detecting targets against the background of the earth.
You yourself can compare with the 63rd station.

[3danimal]

AN-APG-63 (on F-15 A / V) - 100+ km (the range is called up to 100 miles, which is approximately equal to the F-14 radar). Accompanies up to 8 targets on the pass.
The F-18 had a less powerful radar.
I specifically indicated the AIM-7F, was in service in the 70s, had improved guidance characteristics.

in Iraq, 15-20 percent

In the Iran-Iraq War or "Desert Storm"?

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: 3danimal

Desert Storm?

Quote: 3danimal

(the range is called up to 100 miles, which is approximately equal to the indicators of the F-14 radar).

The first is not equal to Tomket. Secondly, maybe 100 miles, though for a target such as B-52 ...
In the third, Guaranteed start-up of Sparrow in the area of ​​0.5xDallow max.

[3danimal]

The MiG-25 is not the most maneuverable target, you can try it with 0,7 Max range.
No, it is called just EPR 10-20 m2. (Mig will even have more).
It may be difficult to accept that “they” were (and are) doing somewhat better in terms of avionics.

[Cyril G ...]

Moreover, it is difficult to accept here if we are talking about facts

[3danimal]

Secondly, 100 miles maybe, though on a target such as B-52

"Maybe" are not facts.

[Cyril G ...]

Can't find and check the data for a station as old as 63?

[3danimal]

Radar "Sapphire-25"

No less outdated radar.
I'll throw off the link.

[3danimal]

McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle - The Ultimate MiG-Killer

https://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/08.airborne/karte030.en.html

The F-15 radar had many new solutions for its time, which determines the quality.
PS AN / APG-77 by the time of creation may also seem outdated. But do we have its counterparts on combat aircraft?

[3danimal]

ZGRLS are all two-dimensional, if you're talking about them. For reliable target designation, they use their own radar or AWACS aircraft.

[Operator]

Quote: SovAr238A

This is the truth of life.

"ZGRLS - no, I have not heard" (C)

Are you a trending African American?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Operator

Quote: SovAr238A

This is the truth of life.

"ZGRLS - no, I have not heard" (C)

Are you a trending African American?

It is only in your texts that the theme of the trend of "American homosexuality" is constantly voiced and traced. It would be - it worries you very much. Is the topic close to you and exciting?
Or they, these trendy Americans you are looking for all the time, attacked you in the alley ??? ... and you really want to take revenge on them ??? ...

Or are you just lonely and looking for friends?

[Operator]

Actually, you started commenting on my comment, and I was commenting on the article. Therefore, you are the one looking for other trendy African Americans.

Pull up the materiel, otherwise you have nothing to talk about.