The expert named the terms of development and adoption of the new BZHRK "Barguzin"

Russia may supply the Strategic Missile Forces with the new Barguzin combat railroad missile system (BZHRK) within three to five years. This requires the adoption of an appropriate decision by the country's leadership, said in interview RIA News expert in the field of strategic weapons, veteran of the Strategic Missile Forces Vladimir Evseev.

Deployment of the BZHRK would be the most effective response to the growth of NATO military bases near the Russian borders, he said, it was only necessary to make a decision to resume its development. According to the expert, the country's leadership froze the project, counting on the extension of the START-3 treaty, another reason was the lack of funds for the BZHRK.

I believe that the deployment of the Barguzin would be the most effective response to the strategic threat posed by the growth of NATO military bases near the Russian borders ... In my opinion, it will take about 3-5 to create a prototype missile, flight tests and work out various systems years, for a missile system this is a very short time

- said Evseev, adding that in terms of its characteristics, "the new BZHRK significantly surpassed its predecessor, the Molodets BZHRK."

The expert is convinced that the BZHRK is much more effective than the Topol-M and Yars mobile ground-based missile systems, which need to go into the field area and turn around for launch, which makes them vulnerable.

The Molodets had too heavy a rocket that did not fit into a regular carriage, which was an unmasking sign, and the Barguzin uses a "lightweight" rocket that is included in a regular carriage, the BZHRK can launch on any section of the railway

- he said.

Recall that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation announced the start of work on the Barguzin military railway missile complex (BZHRK) project in the 2012 year, the Yars rocket was chosen for it, and at the end of the 2014 year it was reported that the project was closed. As the Russian media wrote, the development was postponed indefinitely. However, it was reported that development work was fully carried out on the project, and missile throw tests for the complex were also successfully conducted. Later information appeared that the resumption of work on it is possible if the military-political situation changes.

The development of the BZHRK was conducted by the Moscow Heat Engineering Institute, taking into account the experience of creating its predecessor - the BZHRK with the Molodets rocket (RT-23 UTTH, according to NATO classification - SS-24 "Scalpel"). "

During the Soviet era, there were three divisions in the Strategic Missile Forces, each comprising four Good Forces combat missiles. Thus, twelve "nuclear trains" carried 36 missiles, each of which carried 10 warheads. BZHRK utilization took place in 2003-2006.

Comments

[Maz]

Well, thank God. And then the Americans are completely crazy.

[antivirus]

again instead of aircraft carriers will be built

I spoke modestly about the "confrontation between physicists, mathematicians, rocket scientists and the fleet" even Zhukov GK (for dry route) did not fit into the new alignment of forces in the late 50s

[neri73-r]

Quote: antivirus

five instead of aircraft carriers will build

Who are you going to attack? Or is an aircraft carrier needed according to the "nada" principle?

[novel66]

Avik is a bogeyman, for scaring enemies

[neri73-r]

Quote: novel xnumx

Avik is a bogeyman, for scaring enemies

Yes, the enemies themselves already guess, although they do not even pretend that this bogey in the modern world is drowning (destroyed, incapacitated, etc.) for two times. Their lot is to chase vassals.

[novel66]

well, yes, but with such goals udk will cope cheaper

[Sling cutter]

Quote: novel xnumx

Avik is a bogeyman, for scaring enemies

This is a means to defend their economic interests outside the country.

[Lexus]

This is a means to defend their economic interests outside the country.

Colleague
Interests, including economic ones, of Russian officials and other rich people have long been outside the country. Here they only have the "3 ++ piglet" tavern. But I do not see "Aviks" at close range. Only yachts with the possibility of receiving this, a maximum of two, bourgeois helicopters. Have they finished with a file yet?

PS The story with "Barguzin" and other wunderwaves reminds a hackneyed joke about "bury / unearth a stewardess."

[bayard]

Quote: novel xnumx

Avik is a bogeyman, for scaring enemies

Avik is a bogey to scare the patriotic guards, even if they don't hear about him, they still shout.
Such is apparently their planid ...

[antivirus]

good com-t .... you do not know the history of my minuses, always trolled the supporters of the construction of aircraft carriers. such disappears in the Russian swamps and steppes. Russia is Eurasia, a land power.

[NEXUS]

Quote: antivirus

again instead of aircraft carriers will be built

Aircraft carriers need new ship fighters, escorts, target designation systems, etc. ... do we have all this? Or are you going to catch up and overtake the United States in terms of the number of AUG?
You, our humble one, are confusing Gogol with Hegel. How is the development of a BJRD to the construction of an aircraft carrier?
2 years ago I said that we needed Barguzin, just when the project was frozen.

[antivirus]

I agree - 2 years ago I said that we needed Barguzin, just when the project was frozen.

I got a lot of disadvantages - it was about the usefulness of developing my infrastructure and kindergartens, as opposed to the expeditionary forces of the sea powers

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Maz

Well, thank God. And then the Americans are completely crazy.

Why don’t you glorify the tsar who cut 12 "Molodtsov".
And the second point, the article says

Russia can supply the Strategic Missile Forces with the new Barguzin combat railroad missile system (BZHRK) within three to five years. This requires the adoption of an appropriate decision by the country's leadership, said in an interview with RIA Novosti an expert in the field of strategic weapons, a veteran of the Strategic Missile Forces, Vladimir Evseev.

1. It may or may not be delivered.
2. The decision of the country's leadership is necessary. Maybe it will, maybe not.
3.Communicated by a veteran expert. And another expert-veteran can give a different assessment.
Summary. News for the sake of news on the topic "I heard the ringing, but I don't know where he is."

[NordUral]

So they call constantly, will we, won't we? Like fortune telling on daisies.

[bk0010]

Quote: Stroporez

Why don’t you glorify the tsar who cut 12 "Molodtsov".

They were successfully replaced by MX. Considering that they were made in Ukraine, and the rocket is new, complex, solid-fuel, the choice was not great: either to exchange (which they did) or just write off in 5 years.

[Prisoner]

You are shaking from the "king" as from holy water, so apparently you do not disdain twitching. In 2001, "Well done" worked out the warranty period, removed from duty and disposed of.

[Prisoner]

So from "Barguzin" they finally go crazy.

[Mountain shooter]

In addition to "containers", this is not a bad development. It is very difficult to track such trains in the vastness of immense Russia.

[Blackmokona]

One good man in the leadership of Russian Railways and an online map of the Strategic Missile Forces trains in the Pentagon's pocket

[Lipchanin]

Quote: BlackMokona

One good man in the leadership of Russian Railways

This "kind-hearted man will not know that he will ride under his nose."
Or do you think everyone in Russian Railways will tell everyone where he is?
Is it okay if a couple of three more pacifiers start skating? And misinformation will be merged "to the left"

[Nastia makarova]

it is possible that in general the trains will be empty)))) will be used for disinformation

[Vlad T]

Quite right, to drain the "secrets" about the Barguzins and drive pacifiers. This is from the series of the famous US missile defense system, in fact, also dummies ... Of course, you can secretly load even Chinese consumer goods for payback. and drive Vladivastok - Rostov - Arkhangelsk ...

[AU Ivanov.]

The train dispatcher in particular, and the movers in general, know very well what and where they move. Without them, it's not that the BZHRK - a separate locomotive cannot move from its place.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

and the movers in general know very well what and where they move.

They know the composition. And what is in the train, and even more so in the cars, they have no idea

Without them, it's not that the BZHRK - a separate locomotive cannot move from its place.

As much as he can. What is "letter" you know?

[AU Ivanov.]

The appointment of a letter train is an event in itself. Almost all movers know about it. The exit of the BZHRK on the public track will be accompanied by organizational measures that cannot be hidden from civilian railway workers. And any railway worker associated with the movement of trains: a mover, a tractor, a carriage, a tracker can easily determine by eye the approximate purpose of the rolling stock - the BZHRK cars have too non-standard appearance.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The appointment of a letter train is an event in itself. ABOUT

And what exactly is this letter-type lucky they also tell everyone? And how many letters are rolled out in Russia every day? Is it really possible to track everything? And not necessarily a letter. Regular military echelon

And any railroad worker associated with the movement of trains: a mover, a tractor, a carriage, a tracker can easily determine by eye the approximate purpose of the rolling stock

And they are all spies and at every station.

BZHRK cars have too non-standard appearance.

Ordinary passenger train

[AU Ivanov.]

Have you ever seen an eight-axle passenger or refrigerated wagon? Non-standard lengths with non-standard undercarriage equipment. I, not a professional, but only interested in railway transport and its history, can easily tell you that this carriage carries fuel elements for nuclear power plants, and it is almost an ordinary baggage. Nearly. And in this, similar to an ordinary ref, some kind of special product: non-standard body length, the location of the louvers of the air ducts, the presence of end doors on the cars. And at BZHRK, the cars are all non-standard and are pulled by several locomotives - before they were DM-62, located along the entire length of the train, and not in its head. For professionals, such a train, as they say, hurts the eye.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

And in this, similar to an ordinary ref, some kind of special product: non-standard body length, the location of the louvers of the air ducts, the presence of end doors on the cars.

Will he stop at every station?
I slipped past you on the ferry and you immediately realized that this is a BRZhK?
And where does it go, is it also written on it?

[AU Ivanov.]

Yes Easy. Recently I was driving as a Sapsan and on the way to St. Petersburg, near the carriage depot, I noticed seemingly ordinary passenger cars. Standard body length, standard passenger-type TVZ-TsNII bogies. The arrangement of windows and vestibule doors and undercarriage equipment was non-standard. Yeah: a bath and laundry train (the Ministry of Emergencies and the Ministry of Emergency Situations also have such) came for a scheduled repair. I am not a railroad worker, I am an amateur, an amateur.

[Whirlwind]

Have you seen him at least once in your life? There are only non-standard cars with missiles, and then if only the bogies are counted, and from above they are ordinary refrigerated cars. There are two diesel locomotives. Both in the head. Behind them is a diesel fuel tank, etc. And at the same time he CONSTANTLY moves over great distances. Even IF the enemies know the coordinates of the BZHRK, then only in the past tense, they will not be able to attack it. And what, in principle, prevents the new "Barguzins" from putting a carriage with "Torah" or something even more abruptly ..?

[prapor55]

Do not write nonsense. Non-standard equipment, diesel locomotives along the entire length - orderlies to the author. I didn’t know that it happens.

[Siberianwolf]

Have you seen him alive? And I happened to meet in the summer of 1989. Near Komsomolsk on the Amur, Khurba station, at the railway crossing. Two (or three) diesel locomotives, and then the assembly of baggage and refrigerator cars. Yes indeed under refs 8 axes. This is striking. But from the satellite you can not tell him much. The fact that a special letter is going on was very much betrayed by the UAZ at the crossing with an ensign with blue buttonholes, which for some reason blocked the crossing in 15 minutes and poked our major-political officer, who went to figure out why everything was closed here)))

[bk0010]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The exit of the BZHRK on the public track will be accompanied by organizational measures that cannot be hidden from civilian railway workers.

So what? Is that going to help target Trident a lot? Not really. Here the RDG can land in front of the destination, but this is a resolvable issue (tell the truth and accept the group, for example).

[AU Ivanov.]

It is enough to "make out" the path in front of him with high-precision weapons. This is not a wheeled complex that can turn onto any dirt road. And not a submarine or an airplane with their three translational degrees of freedom.

[bk0010]

He will go back. Or on a side track. Or a dead end. There are many ways on the railway, not only "there" and "back". But there are still tunnels in which you can not only hide, but also wait out the first blow. As long as the information does not allow localizing the position of the train with an accuracy sufficient to direct intercontinental weapons at it, leaks will be unpleasant, but acceptable. And if it is possible to establish a flow of messages about the position of the BZHRK, then they will become useless.

[Alex777]

The liquidated BZHRKs could only launch missiles from certain positional areas. They were not able to stop in the field and "smack". Therefore, the damage to the tracks that cut off the BZHRK from the launch areas turned the "magic carriage" into a pumpkin.
Not to mention the fact that all these positional areas were known to the "partners".

[prapor55]

Do you have anything to do with the railway?

[Blackmokona]

Sorry if you don't tell others, then the BZHRK will receive a frontal with a passenger train

[Lipchanin]

Quote: BlackMokona

Sorry if you don't tell others, then the BZHRK will receive a frontal with a passenger train

What does this have to do with it?
I said that he would not know that it was a BRZhK.
I did not say anything about the order of movement on the railway

[Blackmokona]

Of course, a passenger train that rushes around the country as it wishes, or a freight train that is not loaded or unloaded with anything for years

[Lipchanin]

Quote: BlackMokona

Of course, a passenger train that rushes around the country as it wishes, or a freight train that is not loaded or unloaded with anything for years

And everyone is watching him? Will he be alone?
Hundreds of trains pass through each station a day and really remember them, and then follow everything? Ordinary railroad?

[AU Ivanov.]

The passage of the BZHRK strikes the eye of any railroad worker, like the landing of the Tu-160 at Sheremetyevo to any aviator.

[KERMET]

Tu-160 due to such a noticeable landing
useless too?

[AU Ivanov.]

I am not saying that he is useless, I am saying that he is easily tracked and is not a prodigy due to stealth.
To increase stealth, it is necessary, at a minimum, to create a product that fits in the body of an ordinary passenger carriage or a long-base car-carrier car with a mass for which ordinary standard bogies, albeit reinforced, are sufficient. That is, the rocket is no longer than 20 meters and weighs no more than 50 tons. Then yes - the complex will look almost like a passenger train. But only almost.

[KERMET]

What constellation of satellites do you need to hang up in order to "easily" track the movement of several BZHRKs (as well as their simulators) online? Do not overstrain from such ease?

[krops777]

I am not saying that it is useless, I am saying that it is easily tracked.

It is not easily tracked, believe me, I am a railway worker and every day I deal with the movement of trains, it is extremely difficult to track non-scheduled trains, even with the help of a guide you can draw anything there, but in reality, you cannot put a spy at every station, you cannot send a text message to DSC will be immediately noticed, the Americans themselves considered that a group of 10-12 satellites would be needed to monitor only one BZHRK, and even this is not a guarantee of complete control. Well, even if, hypothetically, it is possible to track it at some point in time, how to get it in the middle of the country, when will it be launched? Who would not say anything but BZHRK is an extremely difficult goal.

[AU Ivanov.]

As far as I remember, there is an open connection on the railway, which is the dispatching office, which is stationary, which is open. Radio exchange of TCHM BZHRK with DNTs and DSP can be intercepted by an amateur receiver.

[krops777]

As far as I remember, there is an open connection on the railway, which is the dispatching office, which is stationary, which is open. Radio exchange of TCHM BZHRK with DNTs and DSP can be intercepted by an amateur receiver.

Radio communication is open, but everything goes to digital at an accelerated pace, the DNTs is all on optics. Yes, and on the radio exchange, basically only official information, no one will talk about the missile cruiser, for how many years I have been working, but even trains with the movement of military equipment are a mystery.

[Blackmokona]

I'm just talking about data flow from the Russian Railways tracking system directly to the Pentagon online. And then they will figure it out

[dauria]

This "kind-hearted man will not know that he will ride under his nose."

Even if the Americans know the location of the train up to a meter, it will give them nothing. For 10 minutes of flight time, the train can be anywhere on the 10 km strip. For a nuclear charge of 100 kt, this is a miss. They were really afraid of these trains.

[_Sergei_]

In general, everything that moves along the Russian Railways is monitored in a special program. Even the number of the carriage can be found in which train it is going. Previously, when the trains were running, they warned the junction stations 12 hours in advance to prepare those services for the locomotive and the instructor driver for escort on the stretch.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: _Sergey_

Previously, when the trains were running, they warned the junction stations 12 hours in advance to prepare those services for the locomotive and the instructor driver for escort on the stretch.

And what kind of cargo was he carrying also indicated?
Well, is it really not provided how to reliably hide it in the stream of various compositions?
No professionals left?

[_Sergei_]

Every squad has its own number. I think it's better to have three wheeled vehicles than one BRZhK. But this is my opinion.

[Nastia makarova]

wheeled ones are 100 easier to track

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: BlackMokona

One good man in the leadership of Russian Railways and

Are you one of those who believe that Petrov and Bashirov are agents of the GRU? And they watered everything they missed as a rotten "newbie" in Saltsbury? And is all our counterintelligence the same? It's good! Let "they" also think

[AU Ivanov.]

Tracking BZHRK on the railway line is no more difficult than tracking Yars on a wheeled track in a stream of trucks on the highway.

[Nastia makarova]

they will make it so as not to be distinguished from a regular carriage by anything, especially since it does not have to be a strategic missile

[The leader of the Redskins]

I am not an expert in the Strategic Missile Forces, but I read earlier that the project was closed at one time due to technical problems.
How did they decide now, if they have not been engaged in seven years?

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I am not an expert in the Strategic Missile Forces, but I read earlier that the project was closed at one time due to technical problems

So do I. I suggest that the USA Wishlist should not be considered technical problems. The most serious were the costs of infrastructure and operations. Compared to ICBMs, I think it's not higher.

[Vladimir16]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I am not an expert in the Strategic Missile Forces, but I read earlier ...

I am not an expert, but I affirm!

[Insurgent]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I am not an expert in the Strategic Missile Forces, but I read earlier that the project was closed at one time due to technical problems.

What problems are we talking about?
As far as I remember, they did not close the project, but removed the BZHRK from service , only for political reasons.
Even this:The "Molodets" had too heavy a rocket that did not fit into a regular carriage, which was a revealing sign, was not a factor and a reason for such a step.

ONLY POLICY

[prapor55]

Yes, you are completely right, only politics. The oldest was 10 rd, but with a fully equipped PPD, it was possible to relocate our 36 rd trains there, but the guarantor decided differently and in April 2002 the division was removed from the bd.

[silverwolf88]

the name of the guarantor fit into the initials EBN ... so easy for the truth of life ... it was he who signed the liquidation agreements ... then this is already an implementation that lasted for years ... often with the money of a potential enemy

[KERMET]

In which agreement is the liquidation of the BZHRK spelled out? Wouldn't it be difficult to bring this point here? At the same time when it was ratified

[prapor55]

BZHRK did not fall under any contract due to its individuality. I personally consider the destruction of trains a betrayal. Gorbachev did the same.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Insurgent

After all, even this: the "Molodets" had too heavy a rocket that did not fit into a regular carriage, which was an unmasking sign, was not a factor and a reason for such a step

That is, the fact that the BRZhKs were elementary identified from ordinary spien satellites, and the mass of the complex was such that they were kept strictly at the stations - is that nothing?

[Insurgent]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

That is, the fact that the BRZhKs were elementary identified from ordinary spien satellites, and the mass of the complex was such that they were kept strictly at the stations - is that nothing?

At that time, this was considered acceptable, especially considering the fact that the opposing side had nothing of the kind at all.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Insurgent

on the other side

I agree, also side.

[Dikson]

Do we have few tunnels in Siberia and the Urals? ))) Drive into any one and let yourself at least see all the peepers from their companions ...

[antivirus]

weak ballast on the tracks - held at the stations. the tracks were smashed with a "heavy rocket".
Many years have passed and many railway rails have been modernized, 800 m "velvet track" + granite crushed stone + strengthening of the entire canvas + reducing the weight of the "jellied meat" itself.

such "trains" will make life return to the nooks and crannies of the country - railways

[silverwolf88]

you are poorly versed in space reconnaissance means ... a satellite to see something well there needs to know WHERE TO LOOK ... and this is not the case of BZHRK ... well, only in areas of permanent deployment ... i.e. while parked at the depot ...

[AU Ivanov.]

That's exactly what was easily identified. BZHRK were disguised as a refsection. But the refrigerated sections always followed as part of a freight train, and did not move by separate locomotives, of which there were as many as three in the BZHRK. The length of the launcher cars was about 30 meters and the cars themselves were eight-axle, in contrast to the 21-meter four-axle reefer cars. It was much more correct to disguise the BZHRK as a passenger train of normal length, although the length of the cars made it difficult.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

It was much more correct to disguise the BZHRK as a passenger train of normal length, although the length of the cars made it difficult.

[AU Ivanov.]

The appearance of the cars is STRONGLY different from the cars of the passenger fleet and from the refrigerated ones. Bogies of freight-type wagons, they did not roll up either under refs or under passenger ones, in addition, there were 8 axles, not 4.

[Lipchanin]

Only a specialist will notice this.
Is it possible to plant a spy at every station?
In reality, he will sit there for a long time looking at each composition

[AU Ivanov.]

Can you distinguish the M-62 diesel locomotive from the DM-62, which was used in the BZHRK, and is now transferred from the Ministry of Defense to work in the Russian Railways? You may not, but I will distinguish it by the jawless carts and the box of interlocomotive connections, under the nameplate with the number and series of the locomotive. About two hundred meters. And I can also say whether this locomotive has undergone modernization, with the replacement of the diesel engine with a four-stroke one, according to the shape of the exhaust pipe. Any diesel locomotive will determine this at a glance, not that I'm an amateur.

[Nastia makarova]

let them do so that they do not differ, so that even a specialist would not determine

[KERMET]

There exist and move such cars as VG-110: 8 axles, tare 65 t. 24 meters
And they have nothing to do with BZHRK

[AU Ivanov.]

VG-110 is a reefer wagon for the defense industry and space. Side cargo doors - a dummy, loading was carried out through the end doors. Both he and the escort car are very different from the civilian reefer cars.

[KERMET]

It differs, but this is not a reason to see him yell: Ah! BZHRK drove!

[prapor55]

Colleague How many years have you served at BZHRK? And in general, what do you have to do with the railway? Judging by the posts, all infa is only from Wiki.

[prior]

And what if you load Yars earth complexes on railway platforms and roll them around cities and villages?
Let the adversaries twitch and track. The product is finished. I unloaded it, where I stopped and in a couple of minutes I was ready to fire. Cheap and cheerful.

[prapor55]

Andrey, you are wrong, the mass of 15p961 allowed you to move along the tracks of the Ministry of Railways at a set speed.

[_Sergei_]

The rocket was completely hiding, it was not visible. The train looked like a train with refrigerated wagons.

[stalki]

And no one has decided yet, these are just reflections on the topic.

This requires the adoption of an appropriate decision by the country's leadership, said in an interview with RIA Novosti an expert in the field of strategic weapons, a veteran of the Strategic Missile Forces, Vladimir Evseev.

[Cyril G ...]

There is exactly one technical problem, an open railway control system, and insufficiently protected.

[KCA]

Any project has technical problems, not only a military one, but that is why there is a design bureau and experimental production to solve them, there are no insoluble problems

[_Sergei_]

Previously, we had a BRZhK on the Barnaul-Lokot-Kulunda-Barnaul branch (maybe it turned off somewhere else). In the 90s, the paths from Lokot to Raspberry Lake were dismantled on this branch.

[prapor55]

One of the regiments of 36 RD. The branch was disassembled after the division was removed from the database, by the way, it was illegal and no one answered for it.

[Mavrikiy]

This requires the adoption of an appropriate decision by the country's leadership,

Yes, only there is no desire of the leadership to make decisions on many vital issues.

[Laksamana besar]

RZD is against it, for sure.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Laksamana Besar

RZD is against it, for sure.

And who will ask them?
They will put it before a fact and that's it

[Laksamana besar]

Even as it will be, no one has canceled logistics, and railway transportation is only growing. And anyway, there is no BZHRK in the armament program, in the priority of the Vanguard.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Laksamana Besar

Even as they will, no one canceled the logistics,

Just like that, and they will tell everyone that this is the BRZhK going?

[AU Ivanov.]

Any car inspector can easily determine that these cars are not simple. The train dispatcher will highlight the BZHRK "thread" in the train schedule, about which the station attendants will be notified. The driver of an oncoming or overtaken train will perfectly understand what kind of thing went past him. You can't hide that kind of sewn in a bag.

[Nastia makarova]

why highlight? let it go like a regular cargo

[Eug]

"... launch on any section of the railway" - how interesting ... now what, the coordinates of the start are not laid in the FZ, or is it supposed to recalculate the FZ in motion along the current coordinates?

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Eug

"... launch on any section of the railway" - how interesting ... now what, the coordinates of the start are not laid in the FZ, or is it supposed to recalculate the FZ in motion along the current coordinates?

And what is so insurmountably difficult to count?
The glands are now smart, smarter than most people.

[Eug]

There is nothing insurmountably difficult. We need computing power, competent calculation (personnel, not mathematical operations) and accurate reference to the current coordinates. If all this is available in every "train", there will be no problems.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Another drank.
We have a bunch of silo ICBMs that are not intercepted by the American missile defense system. We have mobile systems, which, if something can be killed, then only by sabotage groups, and the Americans will not be able to push special forces in the required quantity to us. We have SSBNs, although there are a lot of questions for them. But there is an immutable FACT - this is more than enough for the application of a large-scale nuclear missile, and the development and putting into service of the Avangard solves the issue of breaking through not only existing, but even promising missile defense systems.
And against this background, we are still spending money on the Petrel, on Poseidon, and now we still have to put it on the BRZhK? WHAT FOR? Extra money? How tired this departmental squabble over government orders. It is strange that Chubais and Gref have not yet tried to cling to the nuclear missile feeder.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

And against this background, we are still spending money on the Petrel, on Poseidon, and now we still have to put it on the BRZhK? WHAT FOR? Extra money?

This is called "promising development", otherwise the lag is inevitable. In the sixties, they also did not want to spend money on microelectronics, but now there is only one continuous scoffing about the Chinese process in the Su-57.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

This is called "promising development", otherwise the lag is inevitable.

The idea that it is necessary to develop what is required to complete the tasks at hand, as I see it, did not occur to you.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

The idea that it is necessary to develop what is required to complete the tasks at hand, as I see it, did not occur to you.

In this case, the thought that you are continuously and best of all in the universe aware of the most challenging tasks, and what actually needs to be developed, never falls out of your head.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

In this case, the thought that you are continuously and best aware of the most important tasks in the universe

More specifically, please. What tasks will the BRZhK solve, which do not effectively solve the strategic nuclear forces in their current form?

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Diversification. BZHRK will replace part of the PGRK.
BZHRK will significantly expand the area of ​​ground presence. PGRK are limited to certain areas, while BZHRK only by the presence of railways.

[Cyril G ...]

Not worth it. PGRK is more efficient ...

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Not worth it. PGRK is more efficient ...

Nobody suggests getting rid of them altogether.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Diversification. BZHRK will replace part of the PGRK.

Why is this diversification necessary?

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

BZHRK will significantly expand the area of ​​ground presence. PGRK are limited to certain areas, while BZHRK only by the presence of railways.

What's the point of this?
Let me remind you that the task of mobile strategic nuclear forces is to preserve forces for a retaliatory strike in the event of a successful preventive nuclear missile strike on our territory. PGRK solve this problem perfectly - the enemy will not know exactly where they are in the deployment areas, and the size of these areas completely excludes the defeat of the PGRK by the "square-nest" method, that is, by continuous seeding of nuclear warheads. I would somehow understand more if we abandoned the PGRK in favor of the BRZhK (although IMHO it would be a mistake), but why do we need TWO systems of similar purpose? While the existing one works quite satisfactorily.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

As I understand it, the BZHRK is much cheaper than the PGRK both in production and in operation. Moreover, they use the same missiles.
And then, the note states: "The military will receive the BZHRK in three to five years, if the appropriate decision is made." So there is no solution yet. So it's too early for you to get upset.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

The idea that you need to develop what is required to accomplish the tasks at hand

Don't you need to think about the prospect?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Piramidon

Don't you need to think about the prospect?

Well, tell me about the prospect. What factors in this very perspective justify the creation of the BRZhK?

[Cyril G ...]

You all correctly said about the BZHRK and various Poseidons. There is only one nuance - I personally would resume the work on the Courier .... And it will not hurt much for the Courier regiment as part of the Strategic Missile Forces division.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Cyril G ...

There is only one nuance - I personally would resume work on the Courier ....

It was a very interesting topic, no doubt about it ...

[Narak-zempo]

So lohtorat needs something to please. The BRZhK theme is quite popular among fans of weapons and superpower. So that everyone thinks "We are - wow! Wow, how we can give - it won't seem a little. And the rest are afraid of us. That means they respect us. And they envy."

[cniza]

Do you not like weapons and do not want to live in a normal independent country? Here, on V.O. , there are many different people and everyone has the right to their opinion, but there are a lot of all-rappers, propagandists and agitators, fighters against the "regime", etc. It's a pity that there are few of those left who want to calmly discuss articles ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: Narak-zempo

So lohtorat needs something to please.

It is precisely "thanks" to this attitude that you are simply doomed to lose forever
And then scream about "voting violations"

The main violation is in your heads

[Lopatov]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Another drank.

Ага.
Only not Russian but American.
An exceptional superpower and world hegemon simply cannot just put it off ... and will invest billions in deploying a tracking system for the BZHRK

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Petrel, on Poseidon

Similarly.
The creation of systems to combat them will cost the Americans a pretty penny ...

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Another drank.

The caste on VO was formed. To any news that they are going to do something, create, build, they immediately stick the label "Saw cut" Have you even seen this "saw" yourself?
And of course, this "shadow general staff" knows better from the couch what our Armed Forces need, and what shouldn't be allowed into the troops.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

We have mobile complexes that, if something can be killed, then only by sabotage groups,

Well, even a massive nuclear strike on areas. Which is also undoubtedly a profit for us ...

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

We have a bunch of silo ICBMs that are not intercepted by the American missile defense system.

And that ICBMs from mobile launchers are intercepted?

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

And against this background, we are still spending money on the Petrel, on Poseidon, and now we still have to put it on the BRZhK? WHAT FOR? Extra money? How tired this departmental squabble over government orders.

That's right !!!

[prapor55]

Here, you are right Andrey, even in those distant times it was difficult and expensive, but now to create it anew, it drank.

[Vovser]

In 2001, I worked as a railroad worker at the All-Russian Railways, and I was lucky to see this complex. They drove a train to the station, to a dead end. Soldiers poured out of the car, unhooked everything around. At first we did not understand what it was. Then the roof parted, the rocket was set up, and it was like shooting. They put down the rocket and drove off. Everything about everything took 7-10 minutes. I noticed that you can only launch a rocket at dead ends or on access roads. Since the contact will interfere with the launch.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Wowcer

I noticed that you can only launch a rocket at dead ends or on access roads. Since the contact will interfere with the launch.

It is a in peacetime, when the time "H" really comes, then the contact network will be sorted out in two counts on any part of the route.

[Lipchanin]

And not one steam locomotive will pass by

[Insurgent]

Quote: Lipchanin

And not one steam locomotive will pass by

"And the armored train will not rush "

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Insurgent

"And the armored train will not rush by"

Gyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[hagen]

Quote: Wowcer

I noticed that you can only launch a rocket at dead ends or on access roads. Since the contact will interfere with the launch.

One of the features of Molodets was a special system for removing the contact wire from the launch site. So this issue was resolved. Perhaps this procedure left some kind of defects on the wires, and this system was not practiced in all exercises. But this is just my guess. In any case, "grounded" Calibers, which can be launched from containers similar to standard ISO containers, can be put on rails now. All that is needed is a political decision and some organizational measures. Such trains can be used to concentrate an attack missile group anywhere in Western Russia in a day or two.

[Alexga]

The contact network was not a problem, the device for taking the contact wire on Molodets made it possible to start almost everywhere

[Vovser]

Anything can be. At least I have not seen such a stray. Which pushes the contact away. It's like a gopher))))

[Vovser]

Now I understand why the balancers have a 3-4 meter stroke

[Insurgent]

Quote: Wowcer

Now I understand why the balancers have a 3-4 meter stroke

It is rather happy coincidence, because the power reserve of the tensioners of the contact network was laid long before the appearance of even thoughts about the possibility of BZHRK ...

[Alexga]

All this was done at the Bryansk Carriage Works, and it was also dealt with there during disarmament.

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: Wowcer

Since the contact will interfere with the launch.

Yes, a flaw. It was necessary to make contact rails - like in the subway.

[AU Ivanov.]

Before starting, the compressor station was grounded and retracted to the side with a special device - this is not a problem. The problem was in the high axle load, so the BZHRK could not operate on all railway lines.

[Anatole Klim]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Before launch, the compressor station was grounded and retracted to the side with a special device

The picture clearly shows how the contact network was removed. (Click)

[silverwolf88]

well, how the traveler from the outside described exactly))) ... as part of the mechanization at start-up there was a rod that diverted the contact network to the ground

[prapor55]

Nonsense, all 36rd trains were on the PPD.

[Tugarin]

Russia may supply the Strategic Missile Forces with a new combat railway missile system (BZHRK) "Barguzin" within three to five years

Or maybe not. Or maybe deliver in 10 years.

[Well done]

It is high time. Wow as "partners" ......!

[Ros 56]

There will be a charade for the striped ones, either to look for a train, or a boat under the ice, or a magician will suddenly arrive on a broomstick with a nuclear engine, or something else.

[cniza]

After all, they themselves are asking us to go for it ...

[silverwolf88]

the expert of course pushes a very controversial topic ...
The Strategic Missile Forces are now very balanced in terms of armament ... they are being re-equipped with new complexes ... new warheads are being introduced (and this is so for a minute, a change in the strategy of use) ... taking into account the triad (the Navy and the Air Force) is also rearmed ... the approaches to striking the enemy (barrier and sphere plans)
BZHRK is good ... but not so necessary and effective as in the 80s ...

[cniza]

Quote: silberwolf88

BZHRK is good ... but not so necessary and effective as in the 80s ...

How is its ineffectiveness expressed?

[silverwolf88]

if it's really quite simple ... tasks at the level of using strategic nuclear forces are reliably solved by other means ... keeping one more complex (with the entire infrastructure for servicing and maintaining it on the base) with a missile that does not give any special advantages over existing complexes is not the best decision ...

[cniza]

Quote: silberwolf88

if it's quite simple ... tasks at the level of using strategic nuclear forces are reliably solved by other means ...

And if there is one more thing that is bad about it, yes, I understand, it all depends on the cost of the entire complex of organization, creation and content, let the specialists calculate it and make a decision. I think the USSR was no more stupid, and how the partners were happy when we removed them ...

[silverwolf88]

The USSR, of course, was no more stupid (and Stalinsky was generally unattainable in terms of the country's strategic development), but in the 80s there were other technical solutions ... and the BZHRK was needed ... now, with new technologies and warheads ... and BZHRK is seen as excessive in many respects (including an increase in the range of weapons and infrastructure maintenance) and, most importantly, does not increase the effectiveness of the use of strategic nuclear forces

[Glory1974]

now, in the presence of new technologies and warheads ... the presence of a BZHRK is also seen as redundant in many respects (including an increase in the range of weapons and infrastructure maintenance) and, most importantly, does not increase the effectiveness of the use of strategic nuclear forces

Increases mobility and stealth. Soil complexes cannot travel far from the bases, and they are controlled by intelligence. BZHRK can travel 1000 km per day.
To counteract, the United States will have to maintain a reconnaissance group at an order of magnitude more expensive. For neutralization, forces and means are required at an order of magnitude more expensive.
Therefore, the first requirement for the USSR at the negotiations in the 80s was that the trains of the BZHRK were put on hold.

[cniza]

Quote: glory1974

Increases mobility and stealth. Soil complexes cannot travel far from the bases, and they are controlled by intelligence. BZHRK can travel 1000 km per day.
To counteract, the United States will have to maintain a reconnaissance group at an order of magnitude more expensive. For neutralization, forces and means are required at an order of magnitude more expensive.

Now, now it is of course easier to track it, but how many headaches are there for the means of restraining it - there are no constant coordinates, mobility and secrecy can be made such that the "partners" will write with boiling water from "happiness" ...

[cniza]

Below is the post of a colleague Slava1974 gave you a weighty argument and it is far from alone ...

[cniza]

In my opinion, it will take about 3-5 years to create a prototype rocket, flight tests and work out various systems, for a rocket complex this is a very short time

Even if it's 10 years old, this should be done, let the "partners" turn around ...

[Maalkavianin]

Usually on the railway everyone knows what is going and where. From a boss to a simple handyman. So this colossus cannot be hidden anywhere.

[Glory1974]

Usually on the railway everyone knows what is going and where. From a boss to a simple handyman. So this colossus cannot be hidden anywhere.

They hide it from the enemy, not from their own. Even if the spy finds out where the BZHRK was asking for, it gives the enemy nothing. Aiming at it is impossible.

[Maalkavianin]

Aiming may or may not be possible. And sabotage is quite possible.

[_Ugene_]

another reason was the lack of funds for the BZHRK

and now the funds have increased? now the budget deficit is only growing, without options

The deficit of the federal budget of Russia for January-June 2020 amounted to 955,881 billion rubles, follows from the data of the Ministry of Finance of the country.

[Avior]

The Americans created such complexes in the early 60s and 80s, but both times refused to deploy them, they considered that the mine ones were more reliable.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: antivirus

I modestly spoke about the "confrontation between physicists, mathematicians, rocket scientists and the fleet" even Zhukov GK (for dry route) did not fit into the new alignment of forces at the end of the 50s

Well, the balance of power has changed a lot since the late 50s.

[Zaurbek]

I also liked the idea of ​​a KR on a train in a container design ... I wanted to go to Crimea, I wanted to go to the Far East ...

[Vadim237]

They can be made on the basis of containerized trucks.

[iouris]

Much (if not all) depends on whether Siluanov and Nabiullina will allocate money. But the first question - is it too late? A sharp deterioration in the situation can occur very soon, perhaps weeks remain.

[aszzz888]

iouris (iouris) Today, 10:54 AM NEW
-1
Much (if not all) depends on whether Siluanov and Nabiullina will allocate money.

??????? they are so sideways. They will order and scrub. They will also report their own.

[iouris]

Quote: aszzz888

They will order and scrub. They will also report their own.

The comrade does not understand ...

[rocket757]

And yet, saturating, spreading percussive "vigorous" arguments over its territory is not very useful, although it is more reliable.
Yankees do not perceive anything so more nervously than those arguments they have UNDER THE NOSE !!! Only then the switch to the self-preservation mode clicks in their brains !!! and they start to think more adequately !!!

[soul]

In my opinion, for the BZHRK, a product from the projected Rubezh PGRK is still better suited, the rocket is lighter and smaller.

[aszzz888]

alma (Alexey) Today, 11:10 NEW
0
In my opinion, for the BZHRK, a product from the projected Rubezh PGRK is still better suited, the rocket is lighter and smaller.

One does not hurt the other.

[aszzz888]

Russia can to put into service the Strategic Missile Forces a new combat railway missile system (BZHRK) "Barguzin

It would be better without this, non-binding word. MUST in such conditions!

[Journalist]

Quote: aszzz888

Russia can to put into service the Strategic Missile Forces a new combat railway missile system (BZHRK) "Barguzin

It would be better without this, non-binding word. MUST in such conditions!

Preparations have been going on for a long time, I think it just remains to assemble and much faster than 3 years, maybe there are already .. Putin loves to present surprises to the West.!
For our vast territories, this is what I think!

[aszzz888]

Vestnik Yesterday, 16:20 NEW
-2
Quote: aszzz888
Russia may supply the Strategic Missile Forces with a new combat railroad missile system (BZHRK) "Barguzin
It would be better without this, non-binding word. MUST in such conditions!

Preparations have been going on for a long time, I think it just remains to assemble and much faster than 3 years, maybe there are already .. Putin loves to present surprises to the West.!
For our vast territories, this is what I think!

I completely agree with you. Although judging by the minuses, someone does not really like Barguzin. But nothing, I suppose it will pass as adopted.

[Journalist]

Quote: aszzz888

I completely agree with you. Although judging by the minuses, someone does not really like Barguzin. But nothing, I suppose it will pass as adopted.

And the United States is yelling against these systems, it is not for nothing that they were the first to be laid off .. Gorbach signed everything! And "our supporters" for Russia in every way hate here
So we are doing everything right! Let's break through.

[Incvizitor]

Iran needs to sell a couple of such "wagons" on the sly, suddenly Israel starts to struggle completely, immediately its ardor will be cooled in the event of a conflict.

[tralflot1832]

Putin promised surprises, he not only announced these weapons. We must literally study his speech under a microscope. Maybe we are waiting for more revelations.

[Vadim237]

No one will take this complex into service anymore, since there is no longer a need for it - ground PRKs have more freedom of movement, and new ICBMs with a mass of up to 30 tons will significantly reduce the length of the platform.

[gregor6549]

Recently, there have already been so many copies broken in connection with the BZHRK that one does not want to break another one. In a number of past discussions on the pages of VO, it has already been noted that no special benefit other than harm from the BZHRK can be expected.
The use of such a land cruiser, in contrast to systems such as Topol or Yars, puts at risk not some separate field areas, which, as a rule, try to establish far from large settlements, but the entire system of Russian railways, i.e. almost all of Russia.
About the time of readiness for launch. The fact that someone with large stars on their epaulettes speaks of the advantage of the BZHRK in terms of readiness for launching ballistic missiles over Topol-type systems is, to put it mildly, disingenuous. All military units equipped with Topols and Yars have long developed modes of combat service in which the time of preparation of missiles for launch and the launches themselves can be carried out in a time comparable to the time of such procedures that can be implemented in the BZHRK.
About stealth. In mobile systems such as Topol and Yars, a complex of technical and organizational measures has long been developed to increase the secrecy of these complexes from all types of reconnaissance of a potential enemy (satellite, intelligence, etc.). In addition, the admission of outsiders is very limited to the areas from which it is planned, if anything, to launch ballistic missiles from these complexes. and this limitation is constantly monitored. But with BZHRK it is much more difficult to do it, tk. BZHRK should be able to use any sections and stations of the railway in Russia, and all of them cannot be traced or closed.
In addition, even at the development stages of Molodets, a potential adversary developed a set of measures to counter this BZHRK, including technical means that ensure registration of individual "portraits" of BZHRK in various wavelengths and subsequent detection, identification, and tracking of the BZHRK in real time. Well, in order to strike an accurate blow on the BZHRK in the presence of these data, it does not require a lot of intelligence. Now, with the advent of hypersonic weapons and multi-sensor seeker, the likelihood of destroying the BZHRK before it has time to launch its missiles increases even more.
And the last thing. It is not in vain that the United States and its partners are encircling Russia with a dense ring of land-based and sea-based missile defense systems, to which in the near future (if the arms race continues) the already developed air and space-based missile defense systems may be connected. And the main task of these systems will not be to intercept ballistic missiles at the final section of their trajectories, but at the initial stage, where the speed of the ballistic missiles is not the same, and the torches from the engines are more noticeable, etc. And this even more neutralizes the difference between the ballistic missiles and the existing mobile and stationary strategic missile systems of all types of basing.
Why am I? And to the fact that the BZHRK for our "partners" has not been anything new for a long time and they, as always, will try not to allow the BZHRK to give Russia any significant advantages in a possible full-scale war.

[Pavel57]

There was a reasoning that now the BZHRK is easier to track than in the 80-90s. Although for a response to Europe, it may not be bad. Place beyond the Urals, for example, and if that other theaters are also under fire.

[Freedim]

Judging by the way the Americans squealed about the “Scalpel”, they could not effectively track the compositions. The routes and timetables for the movement of the BZHRK are different for each flight. The train can enter the covered depot, and a "double" will come out of it ... The special forces were disguised with different "liveries" ... SB Railway and counterintelligence rustled only on the way. "Barguzin" has much more chances to be lost, because it is unrealistic to distinguish its cars from civilians from a satellite in the modern cargo traffic.

[Old26]

Quote: Stroporez

Why don’t you glorify the tsar who cut 12 "Molodtsov".

Would you suggest using complexes that were out of all warranty periods and the production of which generally remained outside the borders of Russia?

Quote: bk0010

They were successfully replaced by MX.

The Americans had destroyed MX a few years earlier. Outside the "shift".

Quote: Mountain Shooter

In addition to "containers", this is not a bad development. It is very difficult to track such trains in the vastness of immense Russia.

As some commentators claim that the aircraft carrier is sunk one or two counts, so is the BZHK found. Moreover, only 1 division was planned. There is a maximum distance that he can go. Therefore, the enemy can only monitor more closely. In addition, now, with the full automation and computerization of Russian Railways, it will not be very difficult to do this ...
Spend billions to deploy 3 dozen additional missiles? Can it be faster, cheaper and more efficient to add a regiment to the existing divisions at the PGRK?

Quote: Lipchanin

This "kind-hearted man will not know that he will ride under his nose."
Or do you think everyone in Russian Railways will tell everyone where he is?
Is it okay if a couple of three more pacifiers start skating? And misinformation will be merged "to the left"

Even if no one specifically tells, there are so many "holes" through which this information will flow, that it is difficult to imagine. Starting from the construction of "deserted half-stations" with several tracks and ending with drawing up the schedules of these trains common with Russian Railways ...

Quote: Nastia Makarova

it is possible that in general the trains will be empty)))) will be used for disinformation

Pacifiers were banned (in any kind of location) 50 years ago. For a "dummy" on our side will immediately lead to the appearance of "dummies" for our enemy. And if now we know the coordinates of any mine with a 100% guarantee, then we will have to play "Russian roulette", because it will not be known whether it is a real mine or a dummy ... A dummy is something like "to spite my grandmother, I’ll get frostbitten”

Quote: Lipchanin

Ordinary passenger train

Sergei! It’s not funny to write such a phrase. An ordinary passenger train. Sure. A total of 17 wagons with three locomotives. And there are only 4 EMNIP carriages for passengers. The rest are refs plus a tank. A very "ordinary train". Yeah, and 3 more cars are eight-axle. "Usual"

Quote: Lipchanin

Will he stop at every station?
I slipped past you on the ferry and you immediately realized that this is a BRZhK?
And where does it go, is it also written on it?

Have you seen a station of such a train "skip at speed"? Do not make me laugh. For a certain time before its passage, information about the special personnel will be at this station. And to remove information from open networks for enemy reconnaissance is not God knows what a difficult task. In addition, such compounds that are called "inhabit" about a certain "area". The composition (regiment) of a division located, for example, in Kostroma, cannot be "staggered" somewhere in the Far East. exclusively in the region where such a division is located. The distances it can cover are several thousand kilometers, but not across the entire territory of Russia. Of course, it will not stop at a specific station, but at a special deserted half-station it will be easy. It is possible to track it, although it is a rather costly event ...

Quote: AS Ivanov.

before, it was DM-62, located along the entire length of the train, and not in its head.

They were located either at the head of the train, where the fuel tank was located, or in the tail, where there were wagons with personnel ...

Quote: Whirlwind

There are two diesel locomotives.

Three

Quote: Siberianwolf

Yes indeed under refs 8 axes. This is striking. But from the satellite you can not tell him much.

Sure. The "short" train with three locomotives and three non-standard wagons is striking ...

Quote: Siberianwolf

The fact that a special letter is going on was very much betrayed by the UAZ at the crossing with an ensign with blue buttonholes, which for some reason blocked the crossing in 15 minutes and poked our major-political officer, who went to figure out why everything was closed here)))

It is from such unmasking signs (you brought one) that the enemy develops, albeit not immediately, but the overall picture

Quote: Whirlwind

And at the same time, he CONSTANTLY moves over great distances. Even IF the enemies know the coordinates of the BZHRK, then only in the past tense, they will not be able to attack it. And what, in principle, prevents the new "Barguzins" from putting a carriage with "Torah" or something even more abruptly ..?

And where will you put the radars, also in the cars so that no one can see them, Maybe then immediately put the S-400 or the S-500 ???? And they stopped where they were supposed to. At one time, about 200 such parking lots were equipped throughout the USSR. Somewhere in the steppe, at a deserted half-station, suddenly there was not a single alternative route, but several. The BZHRK had its own autonomy and they moved "without going" into the positional areas of other divisions (stationary and on the PGRK)

Quote: prapor55

Do you have anything to do with the railway?

You were gone for a hundred years. Glad...

[Alex777]

Thank you for your comprehensive educational program! Do not add do not subtract!

[Old26]

Quote: prapor55

Yes, you are completely right, only politics. The oldest was 10 rd, but with a fully equipped PPD, it was possible to relocate our 36 rd trains there, but the guarantor decided differently and in April 2002 the division was removed from the bd.

Politics-politics, Alexander, but do not forget that the product of the complex was created in Ukraine. And if they with the Voevoda and other missiles of this family began to put sticks in our wheels, then no one could guarantee that they would give the go-ahead for further operation. And no one will operate the product without the last extension of the service life. And your division, as far as I heard, was not brought up to the required state in the infrastructural sense, and according to the regulations you drove your products to the PPD of other divisions

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Diversification. BZHRK will replace part of the PGRK ..

BZHRK planned to deploy ONE DIVISION, consisting of 5 trains of 6 missiles on each

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

BZHRK will significantly expand the area of ​​ground presence. PGRK are limited to certain areas, while BZHRK only by the presence of railways.

A very common misconception. Ask Alexander (prapor55) for an approximate "area" in which these trains moved and how they were limited (these distances). And if you listen to you, you can place such a BZHRK, for example, in Bryansk, and drive it everywhere in the territory of the Russian Federation, up to Vladik ...

Quote: cniza

And if there is one more thing that is bad about it, yes, I understand, it all depends on the cost of the entire complex of organization, creation and content, let the specialists calculate it and make a decision. I think the USSR was no more stupid, and how the partners were happy when we removed them ...

There would be nothing wrong with this if it were not very expensive. What the PPD of the BZHRK regiment was like is a rather large railway station with its own facilities, special structures. The division should have put several such stations. Plus - the housing stock for a considerable number of military personnel, plus civilian infrastructure (schools, hospitals, kindergartens). And all this would have to be done FROM SCRATCH
What would this give to the Strategic Missile Forces? 3 dozen launchers. But what prevents spending much less money to deploy an additional regiment in three divisions of the PGRK. Especially since in many divisions during the transition to Yars there was a reduction of 1-2 regiments? Why fence a garden for the sake of one BZHRK division ???

Quote: alma

In my opinion, for the BZHRK, a product from the projected Rubezh PGRK is still better suited, the rocket is lighter and smaller.

And with a shorter range. To stir up BZHRK against Europe?

Quote: Vestnik

Preparations have been going on for a long time, I think it just remains to assemble and much faster 3 years, maybe we already have.

"Soon the tale will tell, but it will take a long time before the work is done." It should be understood that such a stage as the flight-design tests of the complex for many seems to be a completely optional stage. EMNIP had one or two throw tests, and the throw was not carried out with a standard launcher. And some are already drooling from the thought that in 3 years. The author also blurted out, so blurted out. In order for the complex to be on the DB after 3 years.
1. Create the infrastructure of the complex (rolling stock).
2.Test it (moreover, wind it with half a million kilometers
3. To test the rocket itself, since there is probably not a "clean" "Yars" there, but something like that.
4. Test the complex as a whole (rocket and rolling stock). Create PPD regiments from scratch
4. Create civil infrastructure

And all this in 3 years ??? I DO NOT BELIEVE. Still, it is preferable to have tits in hand than pie in the sky. Do not forget that the missile plant is also not rubber. In addition to SLBMs, he will also have to produce Iskander-class complexes with an increased range, replace the old Topol in service at the first stage, and then Topol-M, plus build IRBMs if necessary ... . I will try, I DO NOT BELIEVE

[Shadow041]

I believe that it is high time for the Russian Federation to return the BZHRK to service, since refusing them was a stupidity comparable to sabotage. In terms of stealth, the BZHRK is comparable to a nuclear submarine, in operation it is much cheaper than a nuclear submarine and much safer for the crew than a nuclear submarine. It is possible to equip the BZHRK with YARS ICBMs and Caliber cruise missiles, or the naval version of the Kh-101, the creation of which was discussed.

[Alex777]

It is high time to return the BZHRK to the system, since refusing them was a stupidity comparable to sabotage.

You don't know anything about the old BZHRK, but you have an opinion.

By stealth, the BZHRK is comparable to the nuclear submarine

Neither about the repair of tracks, after the passage of the train, nor about the special positional areas from which these BZHRKs could only launch missiles and which were known to all amers. Not about the size of the cars and the locomotives that gave out the movement of these "trains" and the approach to the positional areas. Not about the cost of protecting these trains from being captured by terrorists. In the USSR, there was no such problem, but in Russia it really exists and the General Staff takes it into account.
No wonder they were abandoned and Barguzin (without most of the above shortcomings) did not do it.

[Phoenix040]

You would write less and read more, then you would know about the terrorist attacks in the USSR, how difficult it was to detect even Soviet BZHRK and that the new ones will be better than the previous ones.

[Alex777]

Do you know the topic: "Cook for 5 minutes, but already cool"? It's about you.
I understand that you are for all good against all bad. But this is not a reason to be smart.
Yes, when creating the new BZHRK, the shortcomings of the old were taken into account.
I pointed out the shortcomings of the old and the fact that it was removed from service for objective reasons.
And I will not repeat what I wrote here in the discussion Old26 (Vladimir) and other knowledgeable comrades. You just have to read it yourself. And check if there are any doubts left.

[Shadow041]

I don't know where you got this nonsense, but the missile range of the Soviet BZHRK Molodets was a little more than 10000 km, which made it possible to hit the United States, or NATO bases, from almost anywhere in the USSR.

[Alex777]

Get out of the tank and read.
Firstly, the restoration of the BZHRK is expensive, and secondly, the Americans are ready to do more of these than we will make ours, but they do not have a Voivode.
https://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2017-12-08/1_976_barguzin.html

[Shadow041]

BZHRK is cheaper than nuclear submarines, and the Americans have not been able to recreate ground-based missile systems, for example, all the developments in this area with the Yankees did not go further than unsuccessful tests of prototypes. Get out of the office, life passes you by.

[Alex777]

BZHRK cheaper than nuclear submarines

In order not to look like a chatterbox, give the figures for the cost of construction, infrastructure and maintenance of 5 trains (3 missiles each) and similar data for 1 SSBN (16 missiles).

and the Americans were never able to recreate ground-based missile systems

In 1986, the idea of ​​a rocket train again took possession of the Pentagon, but this time as part of the creation of a new heavy ICBM "Piskiper", also known as the MX. The train, dubbed the Peacekeeper Rail Garrison, was to carry two missiles, each with a multiple warhead with 10 individually guided warheads. It was planned to put 1992 such trains on alert since 25. The prototype was tested in 1990, but a year later the main enemy, the Soviet Union, did not become, and therefore, in order to receive "peacetime dividends", the United States put the program under the knife (The purchase of the first seven trains alone saved $ 2,16 billion).
In English, you apparently do not know how to read - I offer you information in Russian.
Separately, it is impressive that they took the rockets for the trains and put them in ordinary mines. This did not work out with our missiles. Unfortunately.

[Shadow041]

Who told you that there will be 3 missiles ?! There may be cruise missiles Caliber, the naval version of the Kh-101, which is now being worked out, Iskander-M. Minuteman, the US failed. The Piskiper ICBMs were not very successful and were removed from service in 2005, all the others did not even reach mass production. I don't see the point in giving you some numbers, you still won't believe it, so continue to be in the fairy tales you like.

[Egg]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Have you ever seen an eight-axle passenger or refrigerated wagon? Non-standard lengths with non-standard undercarriage equipment. I, not a professional, but only interested in railway transport and its history, can easily tell you that this carriage carries fuel elements for nuclear power plants, and it is almost an ordinary baggage. Nearly. And in this, similar to an ordinary ref, some kind of special product: non-standard body length, the location of the louvers of the air ducts, the presence of end doors on the cars. And at BZHRK, the cars are all non-standard and are pulled by several locomotives - before they were DM-62, located along the entire length of the train, and not in its head. For professionals, such a train, as they say, hurts the eye.

You are so smart here, you know about the standard and not the standard, 98% of the population finally will not react to this train, well, something rumbled there at the crossing and God bless him, you never know what is rolling there. And the standards are also many different and specific, not everyone understands them. Yes, and you shouldn't make all of the railway workers trained spies, they will certainly be, but not at all stations.

[Old26]

Quote: Telur

You are so smart here, you know about the standard and not the standard, 98% of the population finally will not react to this train, well, something rumbled there at the crossing and God bless him, you never know what is rolling there. And the standards are also many different and specific, not everyone understands them. Yes, and you shouldn't make all of the railway workers trained spies, they will certainly be, but not at all stations.

And we are not talking about 98% of the population or how many there. The point is that any such composition is too specific and it turns out that it has unmasking features that can be tracked if necessary. And in our country, as soon as they start talking about a new weapon, they immediately make another "wunderwaffe" out of it, which has no analogues in the world. And most importantly, when they begin to offer such weapons, they do not say "why is this another expensive weapon that has no analogues in the world. The usual" undercover "struggle in the Ministry of Defense, when one group is trying to push something (lobbying) in spite of another group

[JD1979]

The expert is convinced that the BZHRK is much more effective than the Topol-M and Yars mobile ground-based missile systems, which need to go into the field area and turn around for launch, which makes them vulnerable.

The Molodets had too heavy a rocket that did not fit into a regular carriage, which was an unmasking sign, and the Barguzin uses a "lightweight" rocket that is included in a regular carriage, the BZHRK can launch on any section of the railway

Experts need to carefully monitor their words))) The bridge and the railway tunnel are also sections of the railway))