Military Review

"Russia is making a big mistake": the US criticized Roskosmos for refusing to participate in the exploration of the Moon from NASA

248
"Russia is making a big mistake": the US criticized Roskosmos for refusing to participate in the exploration of the Moon from NASA

Russia is making a big mistake by refusing to join the American lunar program and relying on cooperation with China in the exploration of the moon. This is the opinion of the journalist Mark Whittington in his article for The Hill. Translation of the article is provided by InoTV.


The United States is launching a new program to return people to Earth's natural satellite, the author writes. Recently, the head of NASA, Jim Bridenstine, signed a declaration with Japan on the joint exploration of the moon and Tokyo's participation in US space programs. Also, Canada, EU member states, Great Britain, Israel, India and Australia have already joined the lunar program.

According to the journalist, Russia could become another "natural" member of the Artemis program, given its status on the ISS. However, he writes, there is a feeling that Russia is not going to participate in the American program to return people to the moon. Whittington draws attention to the words of the head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin, who called the Artemis project a political project "reminiscent of NATO." At the same time, the author writes that Rogozin would prefer to see not the United States as a partner in the exploration of the moon, but China, which is a "crazy step" from the point of view of Russia's national interests. In his opinion, Rogozin is making a big mistake, preferring China to NASA.

If the Russians think China will respect them, they'd better think again. Xi Jinping deeply despises everyone who is not native Chinese. If Rogozin doubts this, he should ask the Uighurs. NASA, in turn, has always welcomed Russia's contribution, even when Rogozin joked about American astronauts launched to the ISS using a trampoline.

- the journalist declares.

The author emphasizes that the program for the return of mankind to the moon will help the United States maintain the status of a superpower, and Russia can become a part of this program, if, of course, realizes where "its main interest is."
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  1. Orange
    Orange bigg 21 July 2020 13: 29 New
    36
    That's right. Nothing to sponsor NASA. We are not American wasals. We can handle it ourselves somehow.
    1. figwam
      figwam 21 July 2020 13: 32 New
      77
      That's when you hear such statements from the USA
      Russia is making a big mistake
      you understand what exactly should be done.
      1. Orange
        Orange bigg 21 July 2020 13: 38 New
        30
        Quote: figvam
        That's when you hear such statements from the USA
        Russia is making a big mistake
        you understand what exactly should be done.

        It's like participating in the creation of the F-35 jointly with the United States and the company for your own money, that is, sponsoring not your own, but the American industry. This is the path to nowhere. Correctly that they refused. Being an American appendage is not a topic.
        1. NIKN
          NIKN 21 July 2020 13: 52 New
          25
          Quote: OrangeBigg
          It's like participating in the creation of the F-35 together with the United States.

          Everything would not be bad when together, only here together it is very special.
          The United States will retain its superpower status, and Russia can become part of this program
          And that's it. request
        2. Doctor
          Doctor 21 July 2020 15: 33 New
          -34
          It's like participating in the creation of the F-35 jointly with the United States and the company for your own money, that is, sponsoring not your own, but the American industry. This is the path to nowhere. Correctly that they refused. Being an American appendage is not a topic.

          What if the Americans build a super-radio telescope on the Moon and receive information from a more highly developed civilization?
          For example, how to create a thermonuclear reactor or extend life to 200 years.
          And we will again be on the sidelines.
          1. DymOk_v_dYmke
            DymOk_v_dYmke 21 July 2020 19: 46 New
            13
            Quote: Arzt
            And we will again be on the sidelines.

            Those who believe that the United States is on a high road and should be joined will always be on the sidelines.
          2. free_flier
            free_flier 21 July 2020 23: 59 New
            +4
            Are you serious???
            Probably you go to the nearest anthill and tell them how to build a hydroelectric power plant, or build a submarine ...
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 22 July 2020 00: 28 New
              -3
              Are you serious???
              Probably you go to the nearest anthill and tell them how to build a hydroelectric power plant, or build a submarine ...

              Who said that there will be such a difference in development, maybe several thousand years.
          3. kieferandreas
            kieferandreas 23 July 2020 10: 36 New
            -1
            and on the sidelines so and so will be everyone who does NOT pay a hefty sum for this and still it will be money, services or other values.
            Asli Russians get this? again they will give it to everyone to please and their people will disappear.
            When will we learn to love our own for nothing?
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 23 July 2020 11: 01 New
              0
              The project of the experimental international thermonuclear reactor ITER costs 20 billion dollars. You can raise it yourself, or you can in a coalition.
              20 of our institutes participate in the Large Hadron Collider project and we have access to all the results. Try to build this one.
              We must look for common ground, the Chinese are really a different race, they have one name for whites - devils. lol
      2. credo
        credo 21 July 2020 14: 00 New
        32
        Quote: figvam
        That's when you hear such statements from the USA
        Russia is making a big mistake
        you understand what exactly should be done.

        Judging by the end of the article, the United States is very much needed and, moreover, Russian developments in space and everything related to it are urgently needed for the exploration of the Moon, because if - "... the program of returning mankind to the Moon will help the United States to maintain its superpower status, and Russia can become a part of this program, if, of course, it realizes where "its main interest is" .... ", therefore, the United States needs Russia as an instrument, not a partner, and that says it all.
        1. Katanikotael
          Katanikotael 21 July 2020 17: 09 New
          +8
          Given earlier statements that the moon is the property of the United States and they are not going to share, what's the point of cooperating with them?
        2. snucerist
          snucerist 21 July 2020 19: 58 New
          -10
          I beg your pardon, but what is meant by the phrase "the United States is very much needed and, moreover, it is extremely necessary for Russian developments on space issues and everything connected with it for the exploration of the Moon"?
          What developments in the exploration of the moon can Russia boast of today?
          If you don't know, let me remind you that the Artemis-2 project will begin with the implementation of the Gateway project. Regarding the latter, NASA representative Brian Duhurst has already stated categorically: “We fully finance the Gateway project in this budget: both the electric motor module and the living module. These are the two main Gateway modules. ”
          Translation into Russian: the lunar station is ours, there can be no talk of any equal partnership. Those who want to join are welcome, but on our terms. It is on these conditions that Canada, Japan, Australia, ESA have already officially joined the project.
          There is no place for Russia. Rogozin's attempts to change something gave nothing.
          The design of the Russian airlock module was rejected because it was designed to fit the Russian EVA spacesuit.
          Russian models of crew rescue equipment were rejected because NASA now has a wide choice - to take them from Orion, Boeing's Starliner or SpaceX's Crew Dragon.
          What else can Russia offer?
          The first launch of the Russian super-heavy promising launch vehicle "Yenisei" is scheduled for 2028 (it is better not to remember about constant transfers to the right at all), while the American super-heavy SLS is scheduled for 2021. And this despite the fact that SpaceX's Falcon Heavy is already being operated in the United States.
          Russia has nothing more to brag about. The royal project of the N-1 carrier was initially flawed and doomed to failure. Korolyov did not even think about the hydrogen / oxygen pair at 2-3 stages. And on kerosene you won't fly far.
          Automatic machines? Whom will you surprise with this today? If they are launched by all and sundry? What if some of them have already left the solar system, and the rovers land on Mars almost on schedule?
          Alas, without the participation of Russia.
          There is nothing new for the soul, it must be admitted. Resting on the laurels of the Soviet legacy and marking time begins to take revenge.
          1. slipped
            slipped 21 July 2020 23: 27 New
            +9
            Quote: snucerist
            What developments in the exploration of the moon can Russia boast of today?


            Russia has a large information reserve on the Moon. Soviet unmanned lunar stations and landing craft transmitted a very large amount of information. The territories surveyed by them directly on the surface are calculated tens of thousands of square meters (for comparison, the Chinese lunar rover "Hare" explored only a few hundred meters). A large number of high-resolution panoramas have been built from the orbit of the Moon for subsequent mapping. Lunar soil was delivered to Earth and carefully examined. In fact, our country now has the main possible information about the composition of the Moon and the processes occurring in it.

            On the basis of these data, already in modern Russia, new devices have been developed that operate on new principles - neutron detectors. Using such a LEND detector from an orbiter, our scientists have compiled a map of the location of water ice on the lunar surface. Most of this ice is observed in the South Pole region, and it is there that our Luna-2021 landing station is sent in 25.

            Quote: snucerist
            There is no place for Russia.


            It was Russia that proposed its project for a circumlunar orbital station, first to Lockheed Martin, and then to Boeing. The Gateway grew out of the Boeing project.

            Quote: snucerist
            Rogozin's attempts to change something gave nothing.


            Our proposals were known to the Americans from the very beginning.

            Quote: snucerist
            The design of the Russian airlock module was rejected because it was designed to fit the Russian EVA spacesuit.


            Here is the latest version of the complete station, as you can see - our compartment is there:



            Quote: snucerist
            Russian models of crew rescue equipment were rejected because NASA now has a wide choice - to take them from Orion, Boeing's Starliner or SpaceX's Crew Dragon.


            What do you mean by the term "Russian models of crew rescue equipment"? To rescue the crew at the Gateway station, the Orion spacecraft is supposed, in turn, Russia proposes to supplement it with our Oryol spacecraft. Boeing and SpaceX ships are not intended for flights to the Moon.

            Quote: snucerist
            What else can Russia offer?


            For example, the delivery of goods to the orbit of the Moon using our domestic transport and energy module. Our automated robotic systems on the surface. Yes, a lot of things.

            Quote: snucerist
            The first launch of the Russian super-heavy promising launch vehicle "Yenisei" is scheduled for 2028 (it is better not to remember about constant transfers to the right at all)


            STK Yenisei did not have "shifts to the right". The creation of the Soyuz-5 rocket, the first stage of which is the first stage of the STK launch vehicle, is proceeding according to schedule.

            Quote: snucerist
            while the American super heavy SLS for 2021.


            but this rocket has constant shifts to the right. laughing

            Quote: snucerist
            And this despite the fact that SpaceX's Falcon Heavy is already being operated in the United States.


            Which can deliver a small TGC to the station one way.

            Quote: snucerist
            Russia has nothing more to brag about.


            I wrote above about our proposals. laughing
            1. snucerist
              snucerist 22 July 2020 12: 10 New
              -2
              I understand your desire to find at least some positive in the current situation, but I have to disappoint.
              1. Once again: it is not necessary to mention the achievements of the USSR more than half a century ago (especially since it has nothing to do with modern Russia), just this resting on its laurels has led to the fact that Russia now finds itself on the sidelines of world cosmonautics. There is no need to brag about space machines, many countries today stamp them in industrial quantities and with incomparably better functionality. By the way, on the Moon and on Mars are now crawling devices that are not of Russian production.
              2. The project of the Russian gateway was rejected.
              Just SpaceX Falcon Heavy is capable of reaching lunar orbit. We look at the characteristics.
              3. As for Orel, the only success of the Russian cosmonautics in this regard (apart from the manufacture of a plastic model) is in renaming. In fact, the long-suffering Eagle-Federation, after all the modernizations on paper, has grown so heavy that there is simply no carrier for it in Russia today. From the word "absolutely". For the simple reason that the excess weight by 2,3 tons resulted in a total of 22,343 tons. While the mythical Angara-A5P and Yenisei were originally designed for PN 19,848 tons.
              4. We'll talk about the SLS schedule next year. As well as about Starship Mask.
              5. "STK Yenisei did not have" shifts to the right ".
              Do you remember the epic of the years of creation of this miracle of Russian space thought? So in fact in a few pages I will not fit. What is the bottom line? While zilch. We won't even talk about the second and third stages (Soyuz-6 and the KVTK and DM overclocks are still from the realm of fantasy). And by the way, what has Soyuz-5 already been created? Let me remind you that only the creation of a launch pad for it is planned for 2025-2026. Former director general of the Khrunichev Center Nesterov spoke about this product very clearly: "I think that Soyuz-5 will not be due to the fact that no one needs it."
              6. Yes, Falcon Heavy can deliver cargo to the lunar station. Quite enough, by the way. And what can Russia today?
              As for the Yenisei as a whole, ONLY DESIGN FLIGHT TESTS are scheduled for 2028!
              Understand, I am not indiscriminately criticizing everything and everyone. And I'm offended. And in my youth I was proud of the achievements of Soviet cosmonautics. And I dreamed of Gagarin's smile. But you cannot live only in the past without moving forward.
              Otherwise - a broken trough.
              Otherwise ...
              Go!!!
              We arrived ...
              1. slipped
                slipped 22 July 2020 18: 10 New
                +5
                Quote: snucerist
                but I have to disappoint.


                Me?! fool well, try it laughing

                Quote: snucerist
                1. Once again: there is no need to mention the achievements of the USSR more than half a century ago (especially since this has nothing to do with modern Russia)


                You probably read the post badly. What does the USSR have to do with it? I'm talking about the information received from the moon. She hasn't gone anywhere. Everything is thoroughly documented and studied.

                Quote: snucerist
                that Russia has now found itself on the sidelines of world cosmonautics.


                Cool. We are launching astronauts, new rocket satellites too, and we have entered interplanetary space "on the sidelines." Apparently you are not catching up somewhere.

                Quote: snucerist
                There is no need to brag about space machines, many countries today stamp them in industrial quantities and with incomparably better functionality.


                Some kind of snowstorm.

                Quote: snucerist
                By the way, on the Moon and on Mars are now crawling devices that are not of Russian production.


                So what? All that we need for these planets we get from our devices. Our vehicles fly there in 2021 and 2022.

                Quote: snucerist
                2. The project of the Russian gateway was rejected.


                Where? laughing Give a link to rejection.

                Quote: snucerist
                Just SpaceX Falcon Heavy is capable of reaching lunar orbit. We look at the characteristics.


                The proton has more than once launched spacecraft into lunar orbit, including spacecraft. And it displays less than FH. laughing What did you want to say with this post?

                Quote: snucerist
                3. As for Orel, the only success of the Russian cosmonautics in this regard (apart from the manufacture of a plastic model) is in renaming. In fact, the long-suffering Eagle-Federation, after all the modernizations on paper, has grown so heavy that there is simply no carrier for it in Russia today. From the word "absolutely".


                Well, here you are generally just "out of the box". laughing From the word "completely." laughing

                Quote: snucerist
                For the simple reason that the excess weight of 2,3 tons resulted in a total of 22,343 tons.


                The basic A5 1L in 2014 brought the equivalent of 22,3 tons of PN out of Plesetsk. "Eagle" in 2023 flies on the A5 with the forced RD-191M engines.

                Quote: snucerist
                4. We'll talk about the SLS schedule next year. As well as about Starship Mask.


                those. their constant transfers to the right do not cause doubts? lol

                Quote: snucerist
                5. "STK Yenisei did not have" shifts to the right ".
                Do you remember the epic of the years of creation of this miracle of Russian space thought? So in fact in a few pages I will not fit.


                He has not yet adopted the EP. What "epic" are you trying to tell here about ?! lol

                Quote: snucerist
                We won't even talk about the second and third stages (Soyuz-6 and the KVTK and DM overclocks are still from the realm of fantasy).


                Oh, do you want a photo of the new DM? laughing A couple has already been delivered to Plesetsk.



                Called 14C48 - modification for the A5. The third launch will be tested.

                Quote: snucerist
                And by the way, what has Soyuz-5 already been created? Let me remind you that only the creation of a launch pad for it is planned for 2025-2026.


                Design documentation and fittings are issued. Engines for the first and second stage are being assembled too.



                Creation of the launch pad - reconstruction of the 45th site at Baikonur by 2023.

                Quote: snucerist
                Former director general of the Khrunichev Center Nesterov spoke about this product very clearly: "I think that Soyuz-5 will not be due to the fact that no one needs it."


                Grandpa is old. Sometimes weird. He can think about anything.

                Quote: snucerist
                6. Yes, Falcon Heavy can deliver cargo to the lunar station. Quite enough, by the way. And what can Russia today?


                If necessary, launch a slightly lighter (less fuel delivered) Progress MS with cargo on Proton-M from Baikonur to the lunar orbit. Technically, this can be done quickly.
          2. kieferandreas
            kieferandreas 23 July 2020 12: 35 New
            -1
            so what are we waiting for? in front on a rocket to the moon for "Helium 3"!

            The energy resource of the future and the mining and processing technology had to be done yesterday. this is a race for complete energy supply for the next 5000 years.

            If I am asked who do you think will win? then I will say that friendship must win, otherwise it will come complete, since no one wants to be dependent on anyone.
            By the way, at the expense of criticism of Russia and in general, school, work and even in the family always need constructive criticism, not just blurt out, say or write what is bad, but supplement it with how it can be corrected and done better.

            for example: put the boundaries in RUSSIA to the minimum and maximum LIFE and not existence. what should have at least and maximum, every citizen of Russia and the rest is divided, well, like capitalist communism.

            Our dear Uncle Oligarch, ruler, sovereign, Deputy,
            in your family, everyone has a yacht, a helicopter, an airplane, a house, an apartment, a summer residence, earning a year of 100 million rubles net / net.

            We welcome all this and are proud of you, but dear you are our "to live well, but to live well is even better", and since you should not be between poverty, we, as a state with great social responsibility, raise the standard of living of each of our working citizens
            (let the parasites sit on a minimal existence, eat in the state service department, sleep, wash themselves and generally bring themselves back to their normal form not on the streets, but in state hostels, otherwise mother is waiting for a visit)

            We welcome all your decisions to improve our society and are pleased that you
            share all the excess yourself.

            If there is a deviation in the annual solidation with society after three years, there will be one single admonition with an indication of the above, in the absence of a correct reaction, after the next two years, there will be a complete confiscation of property and the destruction of everything until the lower standard of living is reached.

            And this is for EVERY adult Citizen of Russia, 1 housing, personal vehicle and 2 Million rubles net / net per year.

            And please note not every average EUROPEAN has such a "lower standard of living"
            but each self-respecting EU-Millionaire has € 1M per year.

            And in Russia in full the same European PRICES for almost everything.

            Well, how do you like this example?

            something seems to me, I overdid it
        3. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 22 July 2020 03: 36 New
          0
          Quote: credo
          Judging by the end of the article, the United States is very much needed, and moreover, Russian developments on space topics and everything connected with it are urgently needed.

          Mattress toppers do not want to walk and scratch in diapers all the time in the most immodest places. They liked the Russian plumbing module ... lol
      3. military_cat
        military_cat 21 July 2020 14: 59 New
        -7
        Quote: figvam
        That's when you hear such statements from the USA
        Russia is making a big mistake
        you understand what exactly should be done.

        Well, that's exactly why they write headlines. This is the simplest manipulation. Compare: "Rogozin drowned a dachshund" / "Rogozin made a big mistake: the USA criticized Rogozin's decision to drown a dachshund"... Do you feel how, in the second case, you already wanted to drown this tax with your own hands to spite the mattress covers? Therefore, in such news, the main thing is to find some stunted journalist in the United States, whose name does not tell anyone anything, and put in the headline that "the United States has declared."
        1. slipped
          slipped 21 July 2020 15: 23 New
          +6
          By the way, no one "drowned" the dachshund, she just breathed a special liquid. Alive and healthy. tongue
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              1. snake
                snake 21 July 2020 15: 28 New
                -21
                There are national traitors. There really are no more than five percent of the population of Russia. But count up, Zyablitsev, you're one of them. Because for you the current standard of living in Russia is the norm. Having received your bone, you are ready to continue to maintain the existing state of affairs. What will you sow ...
                1. Finches
                  Finches 21 July 2020 15: 32 New
                  18
                  If you mow under an intelligent person - contact me for you and in general it is easier on the turns! There is no need to be indignant, but what have you personally done for Russia - besides sprinkling bile here? I, badly well, but I served in the army for more than 25 years, in command positions - I have not a single fatal case - how many soldiers my mothers gave me, so much I, alive and healthy, but matured, returned to mothers! He brought up and taught them something in the military profession and in life in general! Then he taught at the university, headed the department ... No complaints! And thanks for the science I heard ... What have you done for Russia?
                  1. snake
                    snake 21 July 2020 15: 42 New
                    -22
                    Quote: Finches
                    What have you done for Russia?

                    Everything is the same as you, but twice as much! The Internet will endure any star. And even if you are as good as you describe it, you can lose your reputation and honor in an instant.
                    1. Finches
                      Finches 21 July 2020 15: 45 New
                      13
                      Apparently, you are not a very cultured person, even, perhaps, not very distant ... I beg your pardon! However, this is a collective image of our non-systemic opposition! What I can wish you - only good luck in your difficult task of waving cardboard sabers in virtual space - courage and patience! hi laughing
                      1. snake
                        snake 21 July 2020 15: 48 New
                        -16
                        And to you - everything and more. And most importantly - in fairness! hi
                2. ont65
                  ont65 21 July 2020 16: 13 New
                  -5
                  With a 4% crime rate, the state collapses, and you have a 5% crime rate!
    3. Vend
      Vend 21 July 2020 13: 33 New
      +8
      How did it hurt the United States laughing Russia chooses adequate partners
      1. snake
        snake 21 July 2020 14: 57 New
        -11
        Quote: Wend
        Russia chooses adequate partners

        Who is this ..?
        1. Vend
          Vend 21 July 2020 16: 44 New
          +5
          Quote: serpent
          Quote: Wend
          Russia chooses adequate partners

          Who is this ..?

          Well look at the BRICS members
          1. ender
            ender 21 July 2020 17: 02 New
            0
            those same BRICS members who beat each other with sticks? bananas are not shared))
            1. Vend
              Vend 21 July 2020 17: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: ender
              those same BRICS members who beat each other with sticks? bananas are not shared))

              You confused NATO with it, my dear laughing
              1. ender
                ender 21 July 2020 17: 59 New
                +1
                Are China and India already in NATO?
                1. Vend
                  Vend 21 July 2020 18: 08 New
                  +3
                  Quote: ender
                  Are China and India already in NATO?

                  Bananas and sticks are the prerogative of the NATO countries, they constantly organize revolutions in the banana republics and chase their servants with sticks.
                  1. ender
                    ender 21 July 2020 18: 14 New
                    -1
                    well. I congratulate India and China on joining NATO))

                  2. snake
                    snake 21 July 2020 19: 01 New
                    -8
                    Quote: Wend
                    Bananas and sticks are the prerogative of NATO countries

                    What are you twisting your tail? Ender gave an excellent example of the "adequacy" of BRICS members.
                    1. Vend
                      Vend 22 July 2020 10: 32 New
                      0
                      Quote: serpent
                      Quote: Wend
                      Bananas and sticks are the prerogative of NATO countries

                      What are you twisting your tail? Ender gave an excellent example of the "adequacy" of BRICS members.

                      Can you give examples of the adequacy of NATO members? Or can you remember yourself?
        2. DymOk_v_dYmke
          DymOk_v_dYmke 21 July 2020 20: 00 New
          +3
          Quote: serpent
          Quote: Wend
          Russia chooses adequate partners

          Who is this ..?

          Those who have not been to the moon and at the same time do not say that they are "returning." hi
      2. snucerist
        snucerist 21 July 2020 16: 29 New
        -12
        Excuse me, who chose whom?
        China Russia? I have not heard of this. Why does China need Russia in this project? What's new it has to offer? Nothing.
        Only the technologies and techniques of locking and docking may be of some interest. These are not priorities in the lunar program. Everything else is Russian from the second half of the last century. China is able to independently master both the lunar project and its own orbital station.
        Has Russia chosen China? So this does not mean that he chose her on the basis of the above.
        As for the joint lunar project of the United States and Russia, the news is presented in a slightly different interpretation. Rogozin just puts a good face on a bad game. No one invited or invited Russia anywhere.
        The reason is the same - the absolute lack of fresh ideas, developments, designs and devices.
        There are no new carriers.
        There are no new QCs.
        The Americans have already designed their own toilets.
        For Russia, one thing is important now - to stay on the passenger transportation market, since the fraudster Musk has already completely taken over the commercial freight market.
        Here is such a sad picture ...
        1. krizis
          krizis 21 July 2020 22: 37 New
          +3
          In the lunar program, only Russia can offer something to China. And with experience in the design of DOS modules, and with the technology of long-term stay in human space. If in the latter direction the United States has already adopted the Russian experience, then no one has comparable experience in creating basic DOS modules.
          1. snucerist
            snucerist 22 July 2020 12: 26 New
            -1
            It is in the lunar program that Russia has nothing to offer to today's China. No experience can convey. Due to the lack of such a thing completely.
            Today nobody needs Soviet developments with technologies of the last century, new Russian ones do not exist in nature. There are no traces of the Russian lunar rover on the moon. And there are traces of Chinese. So who should pass on the lunar experience to whom?
            As for the creation of DOS, China is quite capable of doing it on its own. Whether Russia can do this today is a big question.
            We'd better keep silent about the basic modules. The Russian main module "Science" is still lying around on Earth. More than ten years. Russian cosmonauts on the ISS are allowed into the American segment for experiments as poor relatives, on schedule.
            1. krizis
              krizis 13 August 2020 17: 49 New
              0
              Due to the absence of such a thing completely.
              Nobody needs Soviet developments with the technologies of the last century.

              The Soviet experience has not gone anywhere. The Chinese are still trying to reproduce the technologies of the last century. Now it is about the mid-70s level.
              "As for the creation of a DOS, China is quite capable of doing it on its own. Whether Russia is capable of this today is a big question."
              - Yes, everyone is capable. Sooner or later. The Chinese are carefully picking up to the Soviet level of the 80s. And there it will reach the Russian level of the 90s.
              "We'd better keep silent about the basic modules. The Russian basic module" Science "is still lying on Earth. More than ten years."
              - why couldn't you be silent about? how is funded. and it is being built.
              "Russian cosmonauts on the ISS are allowed to experiment in the American segment as poor relatives, according to a schedule." - Americans there are still poor relatives, the existence of the station still depends on Russia. With the release of the Dragon into normal mode, there will be less dependence.
              China, like the Americans in the 0s, is primarily interested in our experience of long-term human stay in space. This includes medicine, and technology, and the nuances of organizing work at the station.
              Russia is interested in Chinese money, as it used to be in American money.
        2. slipped
          slipped 21 July 2020 23: 46 New
          +3
          Quote: snucerist
          Excuse me, who chose whom? China Russia? I have not heard of this.


          Bad, sometimes chewing is more beneficial than talking. laughing Here is a congratulation from the head of the China National Space Administration on Cosmonautics Day.



          read the translation carefully laughing

          Quote: snucerist
          Why does China need Russia in this project? What's new it has to offer? Nothing.


          It seems so to you. laughing work has already begun to determine the contours and significance of the lunar scientific base.

          Quote: snucerist
          The Americans have already designed their own toilets.


          Wed..t will be over the head of the comrades. Well cool, what. laughing

          Quote: snucerist
          The commercial freight fraudster Musk has already completely taken over.
          Here is such a sad picture ...


          Commercial launches are a source of extra-budgetary funding for Roscosmos. And so we have a lot of commercial small spacecraft scheduled for launch this year.
          1. The comment was deleted.
    4. snake
      snake 21 July 2020 14: 56 New
      -2
      Quote: OrangeBigg
      That's right. Nothing to sponsor NASA. We are not American wasals. We can handle it ourselves somehow.

      Fuck they! We have neo-feudalism in all its glory, and they are there with their space! Well stupid! We need to build temples, not space rockets!
      1. The comment was deleted.
    5. Charik
      Charik 21 July 2020 20: 07 New
      +2
      maybe at first, America just doesn't need to be sponsored
  2. KAV
    KAV 21 July 2020 13: 29 New
    14
    Why does the US suddenly begin to explain something to us and almost persuade us? Leads to some thoughts, however.
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 13: 44 New
      -9
      Not the USA, but a journalist ..
      And if you read it carefully, it says absolutely correct things ..
      1. credo
        credo 21 July 2020 14: 02 New
        +8
        Quote: Roman123567
        Not the USA, but a journalist ..
        And if you read it carefully, it says absolutely correct things ..

        For example, what is the right thing to do for Russia?
        1. Roman123567
          Roman123567 21 July 2020 14: 05 New
          -2
          what the right things will be helpful For Russia?
          What is this wording of the question ?? Any right thing will be helpful .. For that matter ..
          1. credo
            credo 21 July 2020 14: 13 New
            14
            Quote: Roman123567
            what the right things will be helpful For Russia?
            What is this wording of the question ?? Any right thing will be helpful .. For that matter ..

            You don’t find your answer strange. Write that the American journalist "... says absolutely correct things ...", but do not give examples of how their correctness can help Russia. Spending your money, knowledge and energy to please the United States and be proud that Russia may be favorably someday and somewhere mentioned as an assistant to the "ruler of the world" is a flawed policy and is more suitable for vassals, rather than equal partners.
            1. Roman123567
              Roman123567 21 July 2020 14: 45 New
              -3
              You don’t find your answer strange.
              No, I find this question strange.


              Write that an American journalist "... is saying absolutely correct things ...", but don't give examples how their correctness can help Russia.


              Okay ... you don't have to go far for an example ..
              Here he says the correct, in my opinion, things:
              In his opinion, Rogozin is making a big mistake, preferring China to NASA.
              If the Russians think China will respect them, they'd better think again. Xi Jinping deeply despises everyone who is not native Chinese. If Rogozin doubts this, he should ask the Uighurs. NASA, in turn, has always welcomed Russia's contribution, even when Rogozin joked about American astronauts launched to the ISS using a trampoline.


              and what has to do with it - what right things will be useful for Russia ??)


              Spending your money, knowledge and energy to please the United States and be proud that Russia may be favorably someday and somewhere mentioned as an assistant to the "ruler of the world" is a flawed policy and is more suitable for vassals, rather than equal partners.


              Well, we are now working in about the same way on the ISS .. we spend something, we get something ..
              Of course, I would like the Americans to spend their money .. and we only mentioned them favorably .. But ..
              As they say in such cases - walk around the market .. maybe there is some African country in a nearby stall waiting for us .. ready to work on EQUAL RIGHTS .. but unable to do anything ..
              And of those who have and know how ... it's not a fact that the same China will consider us as equals .. what, sobsno, is the article ..
              Personally, as for me .. we still have more in common with the Americans .. both in mentality, and no matter how you look .. But China is in its own mind .. there it is generally not known what can be expected in 10 years ..
              1. parusnik
                parusnik 21 July 2020 15: 26 New
                +9
                And China is on its own mind .. it is not known at all what can be expected in 10 years ..
                ... That's for sure. As in a joke. Winnie the Pooh and Heel are walking through the woods, learning a new chant. Suddenly Winnie will slap Piglet on the ear. Why Winnie? Anything can be expected from you pigs ..
      2. 4ekist
        4ekist 21 July 2020 14: 25 New
        -1
        Astronauts and taikonauts will fly into space, and astronauts will be on their own.
  3. Karaul73
    Karaul73 21 July 2020 13: 30 New
    -16
    Rogozin knows better! He is a descendant of the Queen. Small, however, and useless. But he likes to declare all nonsense with authority.
  4. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 21 July 2020 13: 31 New
    -3
    Handsomely wink Return of People to the Moon! Here - our "partners" are able to launch advertising slogans!
    All you need is your own Space Program, preferably without Rogozin.
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 21 July 2020 13: 52 New
      +9
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Return of People to the Moon!
    2. AUL
      AUL 21 July 2020 15: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: Hunter 2
      All you need is your own Space Program, preferably without Rogozin.

      I completely agree - both needed and without a journalist. But there is not enough money for it, no matter how much you invest!
  5. kamui91
    kamui91 21 July 2020 13: 32 New
    +5
    It would be a mistake to join. They will give relatively little money, and the result is required in the gland.
    1. Letun
      Letun 21 July 2020 13: 46 New
      +6
      Quote: kamui91
      It would be a mistake to join. They will give relatively little money, and the result is required in the gland.

      Well, yes, but doing in hardware is not drawing cartoons, you are right. From the same bourgeois have become insolent! They don’t just give money, but they also demand work for them! And finally, we didn’t fly !!!
  6. Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 21 July 2020 13: 33 New
    10
    In his opinion, Rogozin is making a big mistake, preferring China to NASA.

    but the first place in the number of launches is in China, not in the United States, and in China, the pace of development of astronautics is higher than in the United States ... in my opinion, it is quite a logical choice request
    PS
    well, the cherry on the cake is that NASA is not launching anything at all now bully
    1. Courier
      Courier 21 July 2020 14: 12 New
      0
      and in China, the pace of development of astronautics is higher than in the United States


      Where they are higher, you can clarify. SpaceX has put 538 Starlink satellites into orbit in just the first 5 months.
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 21 July 2020 14: 18 New
        +5
        Quote: Courier
        Where they are higher, you can clarify.

        go to the wiki and count the rocket launches from China and from SpaceX. after fisasco, add to SpaceX launches all other launches made by US companies and, finally, upset, go to treat your nerves wink
        Quote: Courier
        SpaceX has put 538 Starlink satellites into orbit in just the first 5 months.

        the fact that SpaceX littered low orbit is a very dubious achievement yes
        1. Courier
          Courier 21 July 2020 15: 10 New
          +1
          Calculate the mass of cargo to be launched into orbit; Chinese pukalka are, on average, three times lighter than Falcon 9.
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 21 July 2020 15: 26 New
            +4
            doooh! Where are they to the Maskov garbage truck lol
            How many space stations has Falcon 9 put into orbit? zero. China put its own space station into orbit on its own.
            but SpaceX in an unknown direction threw the car into space! what an achievement! laughing
            with whom to cooperate? with China, which is successfully carrying out its space program, or with the SpaceX losers who shouted that they would take over the world market with commercial launches, but could not enter this very world market, still launching 1-2 foreign satellites?
            in my opinion the choice is obvious request
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 21 July 2020 19: 17 New
              -1
              Yesterday, another South Korean satellite was launched at the GPO, in general, they now have Starlink in the first place, since in the future Musk will have tens and even hundreds of billions of dollars in profit from it, as well as the company as a whole - from all over the world, as well as work on Superhevy and Starship.
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 21 July 2020 20: 08 New
                +3
                Quote: Vadim237
                in general, they now have Starlink in the first place

                Well, yes .. before Iridium stood for several years, now they collected money for the Starlink. it is necessary to implement the budget!
                Quote: Vadim237
                since in the future Musk will have tens and even hundreds of billions of dollars in profit from him, as will the company as a whole - from all over the world

                ha ha ha laughing how is it? lol
                Quote: Vadim237
                as well as work on Superhevy and Starship.

                Starship, this one that was blown away by the wind, and the other exploded like a Chinese firecracker? great project! good
                and superhevy, is it that super rocket that throws cars into who knows where? well, that's useful too yes
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 22 July 2020 00: 45 New
                  -1
                  Superhevy is a new rocket for launching the Starship spacecraft and launching heavier cargo into orbit, and what flew away and exploded was nothing more than test bench mock-ups - no one builds spaceships in a pure field. In 2022, the research station mission to the asteroid Psyche will go to Falcon Heavy, the one that sent the red car in its first flight. And yes, satellite Internet covering the entire globe is worth a lot and it will bring a lot of money to its owner Ilan Musk.
                  1. Sanichsan
                    Sanichsan 22 July 2020 19: 07 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    And yes, satellite Internet covering the entire globe is worth a lot and it will bring a lot of money to its owner Ilan Musk.

                    well, yes, well, yes ... how did he do it. or have you already forgotten about this brilliant project of Musk? or do you think that only Musk is implementing the satellite network project? a similar project is being jointly implemented by the EU and Russia. China also has an analogue.
                    to believe that the Internet via satellite will be an analogue of wired or Wi-Fi can only be the same sectarian as those who wrote that now Gasprom is all due to the fact that Musk has released it or naive believers that the Mask's hyperloop will be faster and cheaper than railways. laughing by the way, what is there hyperloop? already gone? already cheaper? or has it remained at the level of amateur fan-made trolleys? lol
                    Once again, the mask has significantly more failed projects than successful ones. even in financial fraud, he almost thundered into bunks when manipulating shares laughing
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 23 July 2020 23: 33 New
                      -1
                      I did not say anything about Hyperloop, but the fact that exactly in terms of the number of satellites being put out, Starlink has already left all competitors far behind - who is the first to shoot and what kind of accusations of stock manipulation when it was and whether it was at all - now Tesla's shares have jumped significantly and they are bought in large quantities. Don't you find any empty claims?
                      1. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 24 July 2020 00: 32 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        I didn't say anything about Hyperloop

                        of course they didn't wink this is one of Musk's failures. you're not supposed to talk about that. colleagues in dangerous business will not understand laughing
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        but the fact that exactly in terms of the number of satellites launched, Starlink has already left all competitors far behind - who is the first to shoot

                        who is the first what? throw as many pieces of iron into low orbit? why is this, and not "the most fuel burned", for example? the result is still zero. the same zero as with hyperloop and rupture. request where is the achievement? again tell the nonsense about "the largest number of commercial launches"? request
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        and what kind of accusations of stock manipulation was when it was and was it at all

                        your religion forbids you to write in Google "The mask is accused of fraud on the stock exchange"? wink
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        now Tesla shares have jumped significantly and are being bought in large quantities.

                        can you give examples of speculative pumping of capitalization of empty companies on the stock exchange? this is a very controversial indicator. request
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        Don't you find any empty claims?

                        the facts of failed projects are you empty claims? I am giving you the facts that Musk has repeatedly collected money from investors and repeatedly failed projects, and here you are singing eulogies to a project with very dubious prospects, in any topic about space. now you don't say anything about hyperloop and poverval, and soon you won't say anything about starlink wink Musk will throw you some new super-project from which Roskosmos or Rostelecom all or Gazprom all laughing

                        to dot the "i" tell me, what does Musk have to do with the share?
      2. 5-9
        5-9 21 July 2020 17: 00 New
        +3
        If tomorrow China brings out a bucket of 10 peas, will you admit that it is ahead?
  7. Andylw
    Andylw 21 July 2020 13: 33 New
    -26
    we simply have nothing to offer the Americans in this program.
    That is the whole point.
    1. slipped
      slipped 21 July 2020 13: 47 New
      +8
      Why offer something to the Americans? In an international program, everyone should do their own thing, having points of contact with each other in the form of interfaces laughing, and not dance to someone's tune.
    2. shinobi
      shinobi 21 July 2020 13: 59 New
      14
      Oh, how, but the men don't even know!
      PS: Do not be bullshit. Yankees never enter into a share with anyone / do not ask for a share if there is nothing to fuck with a "partner".
    3. credo
      credo 21 July 2020 14: 05 New
      +7
      Quote: AndyLW
      we simply have nothing to offer the Americans in this program.
      That is the whole point.

      Tell me, since you are so helpful, why should Russia offer the United States anything, did it oblige to do this?
      1. Andylw
        Andylw 21 July 2020 14: 15 New
        -16
        Americans invite to their program those who can contribute in the form of certain works and technologies and in return have the opportunity to send their astronauts to the moon, participate in its development.
        The degradation of the space industry in Russia has reached such a degree that nothing can be entrusted to us.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. credo
          credo 21 July 2020 14: 33 New
          0
          Quote: AndyLW
          Americans invite to their program those who can contribute in the form of certain works and technologies and in return have the opportunity to send their astronauts to the moon, participate in its development.
          The degradation of the space industry in Russia has reached such a degree that nothing can be entrusted to us.

          There is no need to think out for others, not knowing what the United States offers for participating in its "return to the moon" to Russia.
          Russia has no astronauts, so we will not be able to send them to the moon, and there was no talk about Russian cosmonauts in the article.
          As for the degradation of the space industry, I would believe this if you were writing about Ukraine - for her this is more than true, but this definition does not apply to Russia, and that is why the United States wants to get from Russia so much like "for glass beads" all domestic developments in the field of space exploration.
          1. Andylw
            Andylw 21 July 2020 14: 47 New
            -7
            what developments?
            what is left there?
            don't make people laugh
            1. credo
              credo 21 July 2020 15: 06 New
              +3
              Quote: AndyLW
              what developments?
              what is left there?
              don't make people laugh

              If Russia has no groundwork, then why invite it to participate in the exploration of the Moon? Cadi of past merits to the United States or out of compassion for the poor and the poor? With the same success, the United States could have turned to Ukraine, Georgia or Estonia, but for some reason they offer Russia to participate, it's strange.
              1. Andylw
                Andylw 21 July 2020 15: 20 New
                0
                If Russia has no groundwork, then why invite it to participate in the exploration of the Moon?

                so no one invites)))))
                other than this journalist.
                in nasa, no one said anything about Russia
                1. slipped
                  slipped 22 July 2020 00: 12 New
                  0
                  Quote: AndyLW
                  in nasa, no one said anything about Russia


                  They constantly talk. Just recently, the director of NASA noted in an interview with Reuters. He said literally - "I hope that there are opportunities for us to continue cooperation." laughing
        3. slipped
          slipped 22 July 2020 00: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: AndyLW
          The degradation of the space industry in Russia has reached such a degree that nothing can be entrusted to us.


          Crew member of the next Soyuz MS-17, NASA astronaut Kate Rubins



          fool
  8. bairat
    bairat 21 July 2020 13: 34 New
    14
    "Xi Jinping deeply despises everyone who is not native Chinese."
    The Americans themselves do not mean they despise us so deeply)
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 21 July 2020 13: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: bairat
      Americans themselves

      Sure ! Much smaller, just to the ankle ... belay
    2. KAV
      KAV 21 July 2020 13: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: bairat
      "Xi Jinping deeply despises everyone who is not native Chinese."

      It's just that the United States is talking about itself, but they want us to think about ourselves. ))
    3. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 13: 48 New
      0
      Well, I can't say anything about the Chinese .. but this is quite possible ..
      And at the expense of the Americans .. they certainly do not despise .. Ordinary Americans do not care about us .. at most, they are afraid or respected ..
      And China is like another civilization, what is for them, what is for us ..
      1. orionvitt
        orionvitt 21 July 2020 14: 19 New
        +4
        Quote: Roman123567
        And at the expense of the Americans .. they certainly do not despise. Ordinary Americans don't care about us

        Come on. Can you tell me that ordinary Americans, all as one, have their own opinion? Or a brainwashing machine (the largest in the world) doesn't work in America? US citizens may not care about us, but most are quite sure that Russia and the Russians are "infernal evil", along with the Chinese and others who do not fit into the model of American democracy.
        the most is they are afraid or respected ..
        If I am respected or feared, considering at the same time a "fiend of hell", then I did not care about such respect. And fear must be rational, and not invented and inspired by the media and Hollywood, otherwise it is just paranoia and mass psychosis.
        1. Roman123567
          Roman123567 21 July 2020 14: 56 New
          +2
          Come on. Can you tell me that ordinary Americans, all as one, have their own opinion?
          I do not quite understand .. And ordinary Russians all as one, have their own opinion ?? Hardly anyone in the world has a million different opinions at all.

          Or a brainwashing machine (the largest in the world) doesn't work in America?
          I'm not sure that in this area we are lagging behind America ..))

          US citizens may not care about us, but most are quite sure that Russia and Russians, this is an "infernal evil", together with the Chinese and otherswho doesn't fit into the model of American democracy.
          that is, we do not stand out for them in anything .. like everyone else ..))

          I will repeat once again .. America may not like us, it can fight, sanction .. it can be cunning somewhere .. just like us with them .. It can be afraid or respect ..
          But there is no contempt from their nation for ours .. Just as we have no contempt for the Americans ..
          But what is on the mind of the Chinese .. here it is already much more difficult to figure it out ..
          There are enemies about whom you know that you cannot turn your back on them .. and therefore you just walk side by side .. at the ready .. this is just America ..
          And it's even worse when you walk with a person you don't know anything about ..

          If I am respected or feared, considering at the same time a "fiend of hell", then I didn't care about such respect.


          This is exactly what our brainwashing machine is.
          As you can see, it works great in both directions !!
          Do you believe that Americans believe that you are a fiend for them ..))
          1. orionvitt
            orionvitt 21 July 2020 15: 54 New
            0
            Quote: Roman123567
            I'm not sure that in this area we are lagging behind America.

            Yes, we are not behind. Brainwashing machine running at full capacity. Only not Russian, it is so-so, but the same Western one.
            Do you believe that Americans believe that you are a fiend for them ..))
            But there is no contempt from their nation for ours ..
            I do not need faith (faith, this is in the church), I just have to look at Hollywood or BBC films and TV shows, as well as listen to the statements of senior officials of the United States and Europe, in order to understand what you are denying in every possible way. Namely, the whipping up of hatred and lies in relation to Russia and the Russians. Look for example "red sparrow", or "Chernobyl". And then answer the question, what was it?
  9. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 21 July 2020 13: 34 New
    +9
    Aida damn it to master the moon with a country that wants to bury your economy))) They think well what to say!
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 13: 51 New
      +1
      Who doesn't want to ??)
      In fact, when we are pulling our pipe somewhere, we are, after all, kind of burying the American economy ... or someone else ... who could stretch his pipe instead of us .. It can't be otherwise !!
      If we sell the same tomatoes at the same price, this is no longer a market .. And if you want advantages (and everyone wants them), then you have to be smart ..
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 21 July 2020 13: 56 New
        +2
        Competition is one thing - protectionism, tough, sewn with white threads, is another.
        1. Roman123567
          Roman123567 21 July 2020 14: 07 New
          -1
          What competition can there be when wars are going on all over the world ..
          In the same BV - Iran, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Israel, Libya - every day people die if not from a bullet, then from hunger ..
          It's not even white thread !! And nothing .. everything is fine ..
          1. loki565
            loki565 21 July 2020 14: 38 New
            +2
            It's funny, in almost all the countries you listed, the wars were started by the United States, but that's different)))
          2. Kochegarkin
            Kochegarkin 21 July 2020 14: 49 New
            0
            You have a strange logic - on the one hand, widespread wars, and the sanctions that the civilized world introduces against countries. who do not want to integrate into the world economy and "competition", and on the other, accusations of Russia that we are waging an economic war against the "civilized world". Can't you find a couple of inconsistencies in your reasoning? In your 2 comments, you gave two mutually exclusive thoughts - Russia is against competition because it trades and competes, and the whole civilized world is for competition - because it fights and kills for "competition"?
            1. Roman123567
              Roman123567 21 July 2020 15: 27 New
              0
              and on the other hand, Russia is accused of
              I blamed Russia somewhere ?? Hmm ..

              In your two comments, you gave two mutually exclusive thoughts - Russia is against competition because it trades and competes, and the whole civilized world is for competition - because it fights and kills for "competition"?

              Personally, I did not write anything like that ..))
              1. Kochegarkin
                Kochegarkin 21 July 2020 15: 38 New
                -3
                Knell Wardenheart (Knell) Today, 13:34
                +5
                Ayda damn it to master the moon with a country that wants to bury your economy)))


                Novel123567 (Novel) Today, 13:51
                0
                Who doesn't want to ??)
                In fact, when we are pulling our pipe somewhere, we are, after all, kind of burying the American economy ... or someone else ... who could stretch his pipe instead of us .. It can't be otherwise !!


                "as if we are burying the American economy" - a direct accusation of the Russian Federation of purposeful activity "against", although the Russian Federation in this situation is not "against" but "for". for their well-being, but by methods that are not so bloody and vile.
                SORRY TO MY HOMELAND !!!!
  10. paul3390
    paul3390 21 July 2020 13: 34 New
    +9
    You can't do anything with staffers at all. From the word at all. For they will throw the next day. The whole history of the Russian Federation after the collapse of the Union speaks about this .. Gentlemen, sir ...
    1. loki565
      loki565 21 July 2020 14: 41 New
      +2
      I agree, Turkey also, like, participated in a joint program for F35, and as soon as it raised its head, it immediately flew into the tube)))
  11. Grazdanin
    Grazdanin 21 July 2020 13: 34 New
    -9
    China and the developed US invited Russia to their lunar programs?
    1. slipped
      slipped 21 July 2020 13: 51 New
      +4
      China has its own program, Russia has its own, and points of contact have already been found. For example, the joint work of automatic stations near / on the moon.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 21 July 2020 13: 52 New
        -4
        Quote: slipped
        China has its own program, Russia has its own

        In this you are 100% right.
    2. alexmach
      alexmach 21 July 2020 14: 38 New
      +2
      The United States was invited, there was some talk for a couple of years about how to design only a docking module for something there, it would somehow be not enough.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 21 July 2020 14: 39 New
        0
        Yes, it ended up being easier for them to do themselves, we have nothing more to offer.
  12. Svarog
    Svarog 21 July 2020 13: 36 New
    -1
    Russia is making a big mistake by refusing to join the American lunar program and relying on cooperation with China in the exploration of the moon

    I support this step, but on condition that it is we who will lead in partnership with China, and not sell technologies .. It is foolish to cooperate with a country that is pursuing an aggressive policy against you. On the other hand, China has not yet shown any real action .. the chatter is continuous ..
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 21 July 2020 13: 40 New
      -13
      with China, all projects consist in the fact that we sell technologies and resources, and they are our consumer goods.
      1. slipped
        slipped 21 July 2020 14: 04 New
        +6
        We have not sold technology to China for a long time. They buy from us only finished products, for example, they bought our RTGs for their lunar program
        1. Grazdanin
          Grazdanin 21 July 2020 14: 06 New
          -8
          How much? When is it?
          1. slipped
            slipped 21 July 2020 14: 21 New
            +2
            Yes for all their lunar and still want laughing Probably liked
    2. alexmach
      alexmach 21 July 2020 14: 39 New
      +2
      I support this step, but on condition that it is we who will lead in partnership with China, and not sell technologies

      It became funny. And how do you actually imagine it then? To be a leader you have to do most of the work, after all.
  13. Dikson
    Dikson 21 July 2020 13: 41 New
    +5
    Something I'm confused .. It seems like there were statements that the United States does not intend to invite Russia to the lunar project ?? Well, maybe to build toilets .. And there were articles on this topic .. And then suddenly it turns out that this is Mr. Rogozin resists and does not want to fly to the moon with the Americans .. As for our Chinese friends, so they fly to the moon without us. And perhaps even earlier than the American-European partners .. We need to cooperate with the Arabs .. - they have a lot of money .. And they also have ambitions in astronautics .. Imagine, the Americans are landing on the moon - and past the lander a caravan of camels on the moon dunes goes ...
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 21 July 2020 13: 43 New
      -7
      Quote: Dikson
      It seems like there were statements that the United States does not intend to invite Russia to the lunar project?

      No one invited us to the lunar program, you are right.
    2. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 13: 53 New
      -6
      The United States does not intend to invite Russia to the lunar project

      As for our Chinese friends, so they fly to the moon without us.


      Everyone flies ..
      Well, we will get their beautiful films on the Galaxy channel .. which is also not so bad ..))
    3. bar
      bar 21 July 2020 15: 24 New
      +2
      Well, maybe build toilets ..

      Duc is a key moment in the exploration of the moon. Without this, no mastery will work. Estimate how many diapers need to be regularly delivered there, if there is a settlement. And they never learned to build striped toilets for astronauts. Even on the ISS in the American segment there is a Russian push.
    4. Doctor
      Doctor 21 July 2020 15: 39 New
      -1

      Something I'm confused .. It seems like there were statements that the United States does not intend to invite Russia to the lunar project ?? Well, maybe to build toilets .. And there were articles on this topic .. And then suddenly it turns out that this is Mr. Rogozin resists and does not want to fly to the moon with the Americans ..

      The propagandists also have overlaps. They instilled in our minds the idea that the evil Americans rested, and then suddenly some journalist took and told ...
      1. Dikson
        Dikson 21 July 2020 16: 08 New
        +1
        I (and not only me) have a feeling that it is high time in Russia to organize an office similar to the Icon of the Mask .. A kind of "independent from the stupid and lazy Roscosmos" .. its own space. And to recruit specialists there, who should be paid as needed .. And then we will definitely explode in technology and development ... And this huge ossified colossus, filled with effective managers, let it sit on insurance against falling satellites and grants for old projects ... That's real .. Well, Masky freaked out in due time - and his rockets fly ... Let us also have someone freak out already? Under the article - people write correctly here .. What are we guessing? There is no information what the Americans offered Rogozin, and what amounts he voiced in response .. and the conditions, of course, the conditions of cooperation ..)
        1. forty-eighth
          forty-eighth 21 July 2020 17: 28 New
          +3
          There was already Dauria Aerospace. She messed up somewhere, offered to fix everything at her own expense. Roskosmos gave it an ultimatum, rejecting all alternative solutions to the problem. There is no more Dauria; the founder wrote that it was a mistake to start in Russia.
          1. Dikson
            Dikson 21 July 2020 17: 45 New
            0
            Sure. Who wants to lose the monopoly ..)))
            1. slipped
              slipped 22 July 2020 00: 16 New
              +1
              Quote: Dikson
              Sure. Who wants to lose the monopoly ..)))


              The analogue of the deceased Dauria is the Sputniks company, which works great with Roskosmos.
  14. Grazdanin
    Grazdanin 21 July 2020 13: 42 New
    -8
    It is strange that the news of the launch of Falkon 9 with the South Korean military satellite is not posted.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 21 July 2020 13: 54 New
      +5
      Well, if he banged, then post. And so everything is everyday. 51 days between flights for the B1058 booster. And even the landing was removed with minimal interference.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 21 July 2020 13: 58 New
        -3
        Quote: donavi49
        51 days between flights for the B1058 booster

        This is a record smile I looked online, it's a pity that they don't show the valves.
      2. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 21 July 2020 21: 41 New
        +1
        We posted a video of the fairings catching.
    2. Zeev
      Zeev zeev 21 July 2020 13: 54 New
      +1
      And what is there to post about? The usual serial launch, everything worked out as it should, the first stages sat down normally, both halves of the fairing were caught in the net for reuse. Even a bright title cannot be composed.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 21 July 2020 13: 56 New
        -5
        I watched the launch online. Just wondering why there is no news. So then there is a record for the flight interval. Military satellite of South Korea. All in the subject.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 21 July 2020 15: 24 New
          0
          Just wondering why there is no news. So then there is a record for the flight interval.

          Therefore, no. wink
          1. Grazdanin
            Grazdanin 21 July 2020 15: 35 New
            -2
            Maybe the evening is waiting? A lot of views and hell will be in the comments. For uryakalok, each start of the Mask like a sickle ...
      2. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 21 July 2020 21: 44 New
        0
        Quote: ZeevZeev
        both halves of the fairing were caught in a net for reuse.

        The video posted this.
        1. slipped
          slipped 22 July 2020 01: 21 New
          -1
          Quote: Grazdanin
          The video posted this.


          Well, whether it's the head fairings on Vostochny ... you don't need boats or nets ... the taiga is so tongue

    3. mark2
      mark2 21 July 2020 13: 56 New
      -1
      And they also don’t post Musk’s new invention of technologically innovative red satin panties with the S3XY inscription on the back - a fiery invention of the genius of cosmonautics, electric vehicles, free Internet for a nominal fee of 200 bucks a year, as well as an innovative wall battery that will earn itself money for electricity.
      1. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 21 July 2020 15: 12 New
        +2
        I have internet, television, and 500 minutes a month on my phone, and the internet on my phone is also unlimited. And all for 12 bucks a month. So we overtook the Mask :)
        1. mark2
          mark2 21 July 2020 16: 39 New
          0
          And my phone distributes Wi-Fi to computers for unlimited from Tele 2 for 550 re per month, that's about 8 bucks
          1. slipped
            slipped 22 July 2020 00: 20 New
            +1
            And we have Beeline optics 100 megabits - 250 rubles per month for the first six months after connection and then 400 rubles per month laughing
    4. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 13: 56 New
      -1
      And about the launch of the UAE probe was ??

      Shl about the falcon and the return of the first stage, the news has already started to come out so often that it's a common thing ..
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 21 July 2020 13: 57 New
        -3
        Quote: Roman123567
        And about the launch of the UAE probe was ??

        Was.
      2. Courier
        Courier 21 July 2020 14: 17 New
        0
        No, this time we managed to catch both cowl flaps online.
  15. Pavel57
    Pavel57 21 July 2020 13: 42 New
    -1
    Correctly they refused, it is humiliating to be on the sidelines.
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 14: 15 New
      -7
      You can be on the sidelines .. or not at all ..
      Everything according to Shakespeare ..))
  16. Woodman
    Woodman 21 July 2020 13: 43 New
    +4
    the program for the return of mankind to the moon will help the United States maintain its superpower status, and Russia can become a part of this program,
    Part of the program to preserve the US superpower status? No, thanks!
  17. prior
    prior 21 July 2020 13: 47 New
    +6
    No, really.
    Hollywood is in itself, Mosfilm is in itself.
    Americans.
    If, when landing on the moon, your hatch is jammed, shout louder, ours will come up and open it.
  18. Rzzz
    Rzzz 21 July 2020 13: 54 New
    0
    What moon ?? What the fuck is space ?? It is necessary to build a skyscraper in Fili !!

    But seriously, there is no economic sense in the development of the moon at all. Even the great people of businessmen, after several ostentatious flights, scored on this stupid attraction.
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt 21 July 2020 14: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: rzzz
      after several ostentatious flights, I got into this stupid attraction.

      About the attraction, you definitely said that. And as for the "people of businessmen", then everything is not entirely true. When it comes to getting political gain, the US has never skimped on any spending. True, then they all the same indirectly beat off expenses, with the help of the emission of the dollar.
  19. Operator
    Operator 21 July 2020 13: 56 New
    +2
    "If the enemy scolds us, then we are doing everything right," - I. Stalin.

    African American states need to think about their future, not the moon laughing
  20. HAM
    HAM 21 July 2020 13: 57 New
    +3
    Whittington has surely pushed politics into purely technical problems ... about the Uighurs ... but he doesn't want to say anything about his blacks?
    As I understand now, blacks, homosexuals, and lesbians will fly to the moon ... and they will wash their white spacesuits ...
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt 21 July 2020 14: 29 New
      0
      Quote: HAM
      and wash their white spacesuits ..

      Kiss the moon boots. laughing
  21. shinobi
    shinobi 21 July 2020 14: 02 New
    +1
    So the reality with the NASA program is far from the statements.
  22. Pavel73
    Pavel73 21 July 2020 14: 08 New
    +3
    This is a conversation about nothing. Empty chatter. It cannot be substantive without specific information - what exactly on the Moon was offered to Russia by the United States, and what exactly she answered to this. Has anyone heard what exactly the Americans' proposals are?
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 14: 18 New
      -3
      Specifically, they didn't seem to offer us anything .. they just announced that applications for membership are accepted .. And it's far from the fact that if Rogozin wanted to, they would accept ..
      1. Pavel73
        Pavel73 21 July 2020 14: 20 New
        -1
        That is why the conversation is pointless.
        1. Roman123567
          Roman123567 21 July 2020 15: 02 New
          -1
          So no one talked to anyone ..
          Just a journalist expressed his opinion ..))
    2. slipped
      slipped 21 July 2020 14: 30 New
      +2
      Russia proposed to begin construction of its lunar station segment with the delivery of its docking and storage module, which at first could be used as the station's gateway. Technically, it is not expensive and not difficult, we have already made a similar module "Prichal" for the ISS. The problem manifested itself in the fact that the Americans do not want to divide "their" lunar station into national segments like the ISS. But in the case of Russia, this is simply technically impossible - we have different schools of technology.
      1. Pavel73
        Pavel73 21 July 2020 14: 38 New
        0
        My opinion is this: Russia's participation on the same rights as on the ISS. That is: your own rocket, your spaceship, your lunar ship, your module at the lunar station, your spacesuits and a lunar rover. All interfaces, frequencies, modes of modulation, fuel, fittings and connectors, station atmosphere common with the Americans. If we cannot afford all this, or the Americans do not agree to this, then our maximum participation is the flight of our cosmonaut to the moon on an American spacecraft. Like "I was there." You can pay once or twice. They do not hesitate to do so, if necessary.
        1. slipped
          slipped 21 July 2020 14: 41 New
          0
          Are you considering the option of creating a joint lunar station with China? laughing
          1. Pavel73
            Pavel73 21 July 2020 14: 45 New
            0
            How does China look at it? I’m not against it: after all, we undertook to build a joint wide-body.
            1. slipped
              slipped 21 July 2020 14: 47 New
              +1
              Looks good. A joint expert group on the lunar program has already been formed. There are proposals interesting for both sides. laughing
      2. Dikson
        Dikson 21 July 2020 16: 10 New
        0
        And whose energy should have been ours too?
        1. slipped
          slipped 21 July 2020 22: 49 New
          0
          Quote: Dikson
          And whose energy should have been ours too?


          From our side, in the lunar program it is possible to use the Angara-A5V and Yenisei rockets. The first allows bringing up to 10 tons of payload to the Moon, the second over 20 tons. At the moment, the creation of a hydrogen upper stage for the A5 rocket and the assembly of the first RD-171MV engine for the first stage rocket unit of the Soyuz-5 rocket is underway - a package of such units constitutes the first stage of the Yenisei super-heavy rocket:

  23. rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 21 July 2020 14: 13 New
    +2
    The best option is an independent program, but given that today's Russia will not be able to do this, then the option with China remains, but on partner relations at least 50-50
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 15: 03 New
      -1
      The best option is an independent program, but given that the current Russia will not pull it,

      As if it immediately appears that this is not the best option ..))
  24. Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 14: 22 New
    -17
    It's just some kind of kindergarten:

    - Fly with me to the moon?

    - I do not want and I will not! Buuka! Ahhh! I will fly myself, because if I fly with you, then I will not be in charge!

    - What's the difference whether you are in charge or not? I offer you a joint program on the moon.

    - I will fly myself, in a thousand years, but I will! This will be my program, where I am in charge!


    This is how it looks like.
    We were offered a place in the program, but we refused because of our pride.
    And when we will fly ourselves (will we fly?) Is unknown. But the main thing is not with the Americans.


    The scary thing is that such childish and stupid actions are welcome here. Although it would seem that Russia, how old is the country already! Then we wonder why no one in the world considers us ...
    1. Pavel73
      Pavel73 21 July 2020 14: 30 New
      +2
      Once again: not knowing specific American proposals, this conversation is pointless.
    2. Livonetc
      Livonetc 21 July 2020 14: 32 New
      +2
      As a famous character used to say.
      "A thief should sit in jail".
      And the United States is the world's urkagan.
      We understand that who will put them in prison, they are a monument to crap.
      But they successfully put themselves on a stake.
      And by the way, the world is less and less reckoned with.
      "Such friends ..
      No need for enemies "
    3. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 21 July 2020 14: 33 New
      -2
      So we are not in the US lunar program because we cannot be of any use to them. We simply did not offer them anything that would be better than they or their partners can do.
      China does not work with "white monkeys" in principle. We are a resource for them.
      1. Jack O'Neill
        Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 15: 02 New
        -5
        So we are not in the US lunar program because we cannot be of any use to them. We simply did not offer them anything that would be better than they or their partners can do.

        Once offered, then there is something to offer.

        China does not work with "white monkeys" in principle. We are a resource for them.

        But only few people understand that in this case we will walk under China like Uzbeks.
        But China is not the United States, so you can bend over. At least we think so.
    4. HMR333
      HMR333 21 July 2020 14: 34 New
      0
      And what the hell is there to fly there and why take a ballast if they can fly themselves if necessary so that the Americans once again shout that it is their merits that everything is thanks to them? No, let yourself be on the trampolines!
    5. kiborg
      kiborg 21 July 2020 14: 35 New
      -1
      The conditions for Russia's participation in this program are not known. Maybe they refused correctly. If you are asked to be an errand boy, then it is better to develop the program together with China on an equal footing.
      1. Jack O'Neill
        Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 15: 04 New
        -3
        If you are asked to be an errand boy, then it is better to develop the program together with China on an equal footing.

        Believe me, with China we will be the errand boys. The Chinese are still racists!
        The main thing is not the Americans, right?
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 12 New
          0
          And why not yourself? It was a successful experience, it must be returned.
          1. Jack O'Neill
            Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 16: 24 New
            -3
            And why not yourself? It was a successful experience, it must be returned.

            You can do it yourself, of course! But when will we fly ourselves?
            1. NordUral
              NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 26 New
              0
              When the country becomes different.
              1. Jack O'Neill
                Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 16: 28 New
                -2
                When the country becomes different.

                And when will the country be different? Tomorrow, in a year, in a century?
                1. NordUral
                  NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 29 New
                  -1
                  Or that no more than five years, or never.
                  1. Jack O'Neill
                    Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 16: 31 New
                    -3
                    Or that no more than five years, or never.

                    What will change by 2025? There is too little time for such drastic changes.
                    1. NordUral
                      NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 34 New
                      0
                      And drastic changes are almost always sudden. History teaches this. The main thing for change is the emergence of prerequisites for the desire for change. And they accumulate latently.
                      1. Jack O'Neill
                        Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 16: 36 New
                        -3
                        And drastic changes are almost always sudden. History teaches this. The main thing for change is the emergence of prerequisites for the desire for change. And they accumulate latently.

                        There are not even prerequisites. Power will still be the same as today, as in 2024.
                        But wait and see, maybe everything will go for the better with us.
                      2. NordUral
                        NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 38 New
                        0
                        I hope so. Not the brain, so impoverishment will make people think.
                      3. Jack O'Neill
                        Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 16: 39 New
                        -3
                        I hope so. Not the brain, so impoverishment will make people think.

                        We have a middle class, so, already a beggar, where else?)
                      4. NordUral
                        NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 42 New
                        0
                        Our people are too patient, but there is a limit to everything.
                      5. Jack O'Neill
                        Jack O'Neill 21 July 2020 17: 10 New
                        +1
                        Our people are too patient, but there is a limit to everything.

                        We'll see.
  • slipped
    slipped 22 July 2020 00: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Jack O'Neill
    This is how it looks like.


    Nope. Not this way.

    - Fly with me to the moon?

    - No problem, just don't sleep on top ...

    -?! .....

    - I mean, on the second shelf. It is much more convenient.

    laughing
  • Essex62
    Essex62 23 July 2020 17: 06 New
    0
    It is surprising that there are any joint programs in general. ISS type. In the aggregate of all the podljnykh from the tinsel you cannot call them otherwise than enemies.
  • K-50
    K-50 21 July 2020 14: 26 New
    +3
    Pin up to this time and again violates international agreements, thereby showing his complete lack of restraint in words and paper.
    So why should Russia get involved with such a partner? So that they would "wipe their feet" on her again?
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 21 July 2020 14: 29 New
    +2
    Oh, these joint projects. Take, for example, the ISS and the hadronic colider - Russia's interests are already very controversial, but the contributions are impressive. We need to develop ourselves, and not sponsor other people's projects.
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 15: 07 New
      -1
      ISS and Hadron Colider - Russia's interests are already very controversial, but the contributions are impressive

      Well, in science everywhere is like this .. any project is controversial .. Why then fly to the moon at all .. and to the ISS .. We are not experts, and we do not know that we are really given participation in such projects .. I still think that- then give ..
      Or interests would not be controversial if the collider / ISS were only ours ??
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 21 July 2020 15: 28 New
      -1
      Take, for example, the ISS and the hadronic colider - Russia's interests are already very controversial, but the contributions are impressive. We need to develop ourselves, and not sponsor other people's projects.

      Do you know how much the Hadron Collider cost? We, in order to do it ourselves, will have to descend into the 17th century in terms of welfare.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 10 New
        +2
        It’s strange. Here is the Stalinist USSR aspired to the 21st century. It’s a pity that he didn’t manage to bring up worthy successors.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 21 July 2020 16: 12 New
          -2
          It’s strange. Here is the Stalinist USSR aspired to the 21st century.

          And mind you - hand in hand with the United States. Maybe because something happened, what do you think?
          1. NordUral
            NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 17 New
            +2
            Not hand in hand, but in competition with the States and against their wishes. And with great plans that at one time were successfully implemented.
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 21 July 2020 16: 36 New
              -1
              Not hand in hand, but in competition with the States and against their wishes.

              Well, if by competition you mean the competition between Hugh Cooper and John Knight Calder on the topic of who will build the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station or the Stalingrad Tractor Plant faster, then we can safely call such a competition SOCIALIST!

              Well, the competition between Zhukov and Montgomery in the battle for Berlin is quite enough for the BATTLE BROTHERHOOD.
              1. NordUral
                NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 40 New
                +2
                It is useless to argue with you. The Bolsheviks used the enemy to their advantage. Well done!
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 21 July 2020 21: 44 New
        +1
        Not a single scientist can still clearly explain the need for a collider. wink
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 21 July 2020 22: 34 New
          0
          Not a single scientist can still clearly explain the need for a collider.

          The main task is to simulate the conditions that existed at the beginning of the formation of the Universe.
  • HMR333
    HMR333 21 July 2020 14: 30 New
    +1
    What is there to do on the moon to spend billions so that someone would fix a bunch there? Yes, and it is dangerous to cast with them, they shit so much that the toilets break down and will not reach the moon! If they were on the moon, then they have no problem to fly again themselves, and since right now they cannot with the current technologies so fuck they were there! They get to the ISS and they get to the Rasiysk ones, and they whine that there is nothing without Russia!
  • Xenofont
    Xenofont 21 July 2020 14: 31 New
    +3
    It would be more urgent for us to take up the "return" of our people to a more or less normal, secure life.
    1. Senior manager
      Senior manager 21 July 2020 14: 44 New
      +1
      Quote: Xenofont
      It would be more urgent for us to take up the "return" of our people to a more or less normal, secure life.

      Your people seem to live like nothing, but who do you mean? Let's change to carts, cheap and only one horsepower, and we don't need gasoline, why do we need the Moon?
  • Senior manager
    Senior manager 21 July 2020 14: 38 New
    +2
    Most of all, the phrase "return to the moon" will touch. Personally, I got the impression that the Americans were simply not there.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 21 July 2020 14: 44 New
    +3
    Firstly, a 100% divorce - you give us everything, and we (NASA) will think, and it MAYBE, we will share something with you, or maybe NOT. Secondly, let the gentlemen, Atlanticist talkers, first lift the sanctions by equipment technology. And thirdly, I am 95% sure that no one will allow us, modern "human beings" to gain a foothold on the Moon, even if someone finally lands someone there (finally embodying Kubrick's fantasies in real life). Cockroaches are not welcome in the bread bin. From this point of view, the idea is initially dead, so the Americans are not assaulting someone else's base called "Luna". ... N.I. an expedition to Mars seems to be more feasible than the "lunar bases" of modern mankind, in terms of access to the ruins. Only here there was no "space cruiser" to Mars, and there is still no. Why is there a "space cruiser", a spaceboat, and that is the ultimate dream.
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 21 July 2020 15: 09 New
      -2
      100% divorce, - give us everything, and we (NASA) will think, and MAYBE, we will share something with you, or maybe NOT.

      Here the man invented himself, believed himself .. and he himself conjectured the continuation of this ..))
  • rocket757
    rocket757 21 July 2020 14: 56 New
    +3
    Not very well "bowed" in any direction. It is inappropriate for US.
    In general, we'll see how it goes.
    1. cniza
      cniza 21 July 2020 15: 17 New
      +2
      So it seems that we decided on our own, the words better with China do not mean that we will work together.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 21 July 2020 15: 52 New
        +1
        Here I am about the same. The potential is there, we must make efforts and .... find a comrade in pince-nez and attach to this case, which would be very useful!
        1. cniza
          cniza 21 July 2020 16: 06 New
          +2
          Let's hope that everything will work out and gradually create everything necessary for the lunar and other programs.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 21 July 2020 16: 39 New
            +1
            No, it won't go quietly. And so, for too long they were in a comatose, peaceful state. A good shake, stimulation won't hurt.
            1. cniza
              cniza 21 July 2020 16: 58 New
              +2
              I meant without external noise, and so yes it is necessary to shovel so that sparks from the eyes ...
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 21 July 2020 19: 22 New
                +1
                Yes, it will not hurt to pinch / shorten the languages ​​of many.
                1. cniza
                  cniza 21 July 2020 20: 47 New
                  +2
                  In fact every now and then many Wishlist are ahead of reason and possibilities ..
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 21 July 2020 22: 36 New
                    +2
                    If you shorten the Wishlist for many, you look and there will be funds for a good, necessary cause!
        2. NordUral
          NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 06 New
          +1
          Still, I would have found a mustache again.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 21 July 2020 16: 37 New
            0
            No extremes and extreme. At the moment, enough STRICT supervising OKA! With appropriate structures for ... aligning all processes and individuals who do not correctly understand the goals and objectives for which they have undertaken or are assigned.
            1. Essex62
              Essex62 23 July 2020 17: 18 New
              +1
              If it is possible to snatch, these persons, and the possibility of the system itself provokes, not real fantasies
              We have a dime a dozen supervising eyes, but they do not agree to plow the power for rations. In business, these are big-eyed.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 23 July 2020 21: 43 New
                +1
                It is difficult, but the state can establish such rules in order to reduce losses from all kinds of negative manifestations by individuals, groups of people, to the minimum permissible values.
                What is needed for this, to explain ... the methods have long been known and tested, the only question is who wants to apply them.
                1. Essex62
                  Essex62 24 July 2020 06: 18 New
                  +1
                  In a society where profit is not just the norm, but determines consciousness, any laws are meaningless as the dominant. Stop bribery, theft, and so on for a salary, when you can raise the dough by ksiva by stripping the same businessman-backer? It is possible to get as close as possible to the ideal only by returning a complete ban on enrichment, with the most severe punishment for violation. Up to ... in bourgeois society the state has no methods. It, ours, was originally a thief. Growing up from the saints of the 90s.
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 24 July 2020 10: 15 New
                    0
                    Any state system is also not eternal.
                    Although, no one can completely overcome human vices! Exceptions only confirm the rule.
  • U-58
    U-58 21 July 2020 15: 06 New
    +2
    On the one hand, building locks and public toilets is not the most honorable role; on the other hand, I don’t think that participation or non-participation is determined by Rogozin’s decision.
    He has bosses and higher ...
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 21 July 2020 15: 24 New
      +1
      They have no engine to fly to the moon.
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 05 New
        0
        And there never was.
  • cniza
    cniza 21 July 2020 15: 12 New
    +3
    which is a "crazy step" from the point of view of Russia's national interests.


    Given previous experience, this phrase suggests that we are doing everything right ...
  • bar
    bar 21 July 2020 15: 15 New
    0
    United States launches new program to return humans to Earth's natural satellite

    Since the days of the old program, they have not learned how to build toilets for astronauts. Let them train, otherwise there won't be enough ships to carry diapers to the moon
  • Antokha
    Antokha 21 July 2020 15: 20 New
    +1
    Xi Jinping deeply despises everyone who is not native Chinese. If Rogozin doubts this, he should ask the Uighurs.

    As usual, lies and distortion of facts from the Americans. The Uighur problem is religious. Islamic fundamentalism, so familiar to so many countries. The Chinese can and despise us. They are now on the wave of their own successes "went" a little. But we are aware even without the Americans.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 21 July 2020 15: 22 New
    +2
    This was called in the 90s: Kidnyak on trust! We passed by we know. Let the Americans with the "great space" powers roam to the moon.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 21 July 2020 15: 54 New
    0
    laughing On the sidelines? Not ho .. ho laughing
  • NordUral
    NordUral 21 July 2020 16: 04 New
    -1
    NASA, in turn, has always welcomed the contribution of Russia, ...

    Only now, when they write about the exploration of the Cosmos, they start with themselves first. Otherwise, without mentioning either the satellite or Gagarin, etc.
  • dimasik-nl
    dimasik-nl 21 July 2020 16: 15 New
    -1
    You fly on the ISS with the Americans and there are no problems. I’m wondering, what good did the Chinese do for Russia? Is the SSJ100 built from Chinese parts and machine tools, or the MC21? Who buys the rocket motors? Or the Ford plant, in the sense that Gorkovsky built it? With Rogozin, it's not exactly the moon, soon you won't be able to fly into near-Earth orbit. Yes, also look at what is happening with the forests of Siberia ...
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 21 July 2020 19: 58 New
      +3
      And why should the Chinese have "something good" for us to do? Let's just say that the Chinese have not done anything wrong yet. In contrast to the emissaries of American concerns, which since 1993, with the help of Gaidars, Chubais and other effective privatizers, have been rolling up former Soviet high-tech enterprises into the ground. No sooner had the "corpses" of the 1st departments at the enterprises cooled down, than various joint ventures with foreign "kopecks" and promises began to emerge on their basis. The Soviet and Russian space industry - it is perceived by the Americans as the worst competitor, it was, is and will be, the Americans do not rest until they level the competitor. what kind of cooperation can there be between direct competitors, completely self-sufficient -? No. All the lures from NASA are designed only for lynxes.
  • Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 21 July 2020 16: 16 New
    +1
    The striped people are accustomed to feeling themselves as a hegemon in everything, they offer Russia a secondary role, and all the laurels of NASA are the USA. Why should Russia participate in this if Roscosmos itself can achieve success in its own lunar program? Well, finance, of course, is another matter.
  • Igor Polovodov
    Igor Polovodov 21 July 2020 16: 18 New
    0
    The striped ones put themselves above everyone else, and put on everyone ... there is nothing to blame on China ...
  • Crash
    Crash 21 July 2020 16: 25 New
    +2
    it seems that Russia is not going to participate in the American program to return people to the moon

    So Trump announced the American Moon? Not?
    Do you need a taxi to get home? what
  • 1536
    1536 21 July 2020 16: 45 New
    +2
    Why interfere with the American "triumph" - the flight to the moon? It is clear that our contribution, in the event of joint work with the Americans on the organization of such a flight, will be enormous. We do not know how to hide anything, work for victory, for the team. So they are arranged. And everyone knows about it, that's why they invite. The Americans, on the other hand, will distort everything, they twist or argue, and the whole world will think that they are the first in the development of the Universe. They are just equal among the first. Therefore, we are waiting for speeches from Washington and Houston that the Russians do not have any space technologies, the industry is hopelessly behind, etc. We are also looking forward to the Americans' flight to the moon. By the way, how much can you feed, save and make happy American citizens if, instead of flying to the Earth's satellite, you redirect these costs to their needs? We've already heard about high-tech jobs in the United States. But so far these are only the wishes of the president there.
  • 5-9
    5-9 21 July 2020 16: 56 New
    +1
    Some kind of hysteria ... A new monster appeared on the planet, Despising All Jingping ...
    By the way, from amers to us were constructive proposals? Did not have.
    And the project itself ... Bondarchuk, of course, got his hand in science fiction, but not Kubrick and there are berries in Hollywood's buttocks ...
    It's really not even funny about the Moon by 2024
  • zwlad
    zwlad 21 July 2020 17: 08 New
    0
    If Americans say that we are doing something wrong, then we are doing everything right.
    Let them try to fly to the moon without Russia.
  • Koval Sergey
    Koval Sergey 21 July 2020 17: 27 New
    16
    It looks like the Yankees again need something from us.
    1. Guba
      Guba 21 July 2020 17: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: Koval Sergey
      It looks like the Yankees again need something from us.

      Our engines and manned modules ..
  • Guba
    Guba 21 July 2020 17: 31 New
    +1
    the program for the return of mankind to the moon will help the United States maintain its superpower status, and Russia can become a part of this program,

    Amers offered us a normal place .. Well, what kind of impudent people have never seen!
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 21 July 2020 19: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Pavel73
    How does China look at it? I’m not against it: after all, we undertook to build a joint wide-body.


    With a widebody, there are a lot of problems with logistics and rights, and therefore with a share in income.
  • Badger
    Badger 21 July 2020 20: 16 New
    0
    NASA offered cooperation ... It's like a janitor at an airport, you see the planes, but in reality nothing depends on him.
    Here we were offered this.
  • agoran
    agoran 21 July 2020 20: 26 New
    -1
    Hmm, but what about the junk from the Yankes module?
    Let's see for ourselves, and then we'll see.