Military Review

Motor transport of the Red Army: from creation to the beginning of the Great Patriotic War

113

Everyone understood that the next war, the inevitability of which was obvious from the moment the USSR was created, would certainly become a war of engines. Called to defend the country of Soviets in the coming battles, the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army has been trying to "put on wheels" since its birth in 1918. This process was far from simple and not fast, despite all the efforts made to implement it, but by the time the first battles of the Great Patriotic War broke out, it was mostly crowned with success.


It is clear that during the hard times of the Civil War, and even in the first years of the formation of Soviet power, it would be simply ridiculous to talk about any systemic and mass mechanization, barely created from scattered detachments and semi-partisan formations of the Red Army. There would be to dress, shoe, feed the soldiers and find each a rifle, preferably in good working order ...

At the same time, it cannot be said that nothing at all was inherited from the Russian Imperial Army of the Red Army in this regard. There were cars: according to historians, their number exceeded 40 thousand. But they only belonged to more than 200 different brands (it was difficult to find even two identical ones!), And, most importantly, three-quarters were in a state of complete unserviceability even in peaceful conditions. In combat and even more so.

Nevertheless, the first cars in the ranks of the Red Army appeared even then. Of course, trophy or requisitioned from the "bourgeois" (up to those seized from the Imperial garage) and exclusively foreign production. It could very well have been a Belgian passenger car Metallurgique or an American White truck. The Red Army men also liked the Italian FIAT Tipo-3 Ter - this executive class car was roomy, and even made it possible to install a couple of machine guns on it. Subsequently, at the Moscow Automobile Plant for the needs of the army, cargo models of the same company, FIAT-15 Ter, were assembled. Also with machine guns, of course.

Be that as it may, according to historians, the wheel park of the Red Army by 1920 numbered no more than 7,5 thousand units, the vast majority of which were passenger cars. In addition, no more than 45% of the cars could be considered technically sound, even with a big stretch. The situation was aggravated by the fact that in the absence of imported spare parts, a serious breakdown could not be eliminated in any way. In this regard, the situation was rapidly changing from bad to worse and, according to some researchers, by 1928 in the Red Army a little more than a thousand cars remained on the move. However, after four years this number increased, and immediately fivefold. And these were no longer trophy "oldies", but Soviet cars.

The formation of the Department of Mechanization and Motorization in the Red Army, as well as the adoption by the Revolutionary Military Council of the "System of tank-tractor armored vehicles of the Red Army", played a role. However, all decisions would have remained on paper if the first Soviet automobile production had not been earned by that time. The above-mentioned Moscow Automobile Plant supplied the Red Army with a "line" of trucks: from the first one and a half ton model AMO-F-15, which was, in fact, not the most successful copy of the same FIAT-15 Ter, to much more advanced AMO-2, AMO-3 and I-5.

Military trucks became more and more domestic, moving away from both imported components and borrowed technical solutions. However, at first it was necessary to use everything that was possible, and at the Gudok Oktyabrya plant, the production of Ford A and Ford AA trucks assembled from American parts was in full swing for the army. At that time, our country in general massively bought everything that was possible from the "damned capitalists", both for further study and copying, and for use for its intended purpose. This concerned automotive equipment for the Red Army in full measure: a lot of cars were needed, and its production was just getting on its feet.

The leadership of the party, country, army tried to catch the beginning of the war as best they could. In June 1941, the Red Army's vehicle fleet was already more than 270 thousand vehicles of various types. Is it a lot or a little? You can judge for yourself, based on the fact that by that time there were 700 thousand trucks for the entire USSR. However, the main problem of the Red Army was not the number of "wheels" it had, but their quality. The GAZ-AA and GAZ-AAA trucks, ZIS 5 and 6 models, as well as the most lifting (from five to eight tons) Yag trucks, which constituted the basis of its rolling stock at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, were absolutely no different from the “civil” models. Including, alas, neither reliability nor cross-country ability.

With light vehicles for the command staff, the situation was even worse: there was no question of any off-road vehicles. Subsequently, peaceful "emki" (GAZ M-1) and ZIS will mercilessly bog down on the shattered roads of the war, or even become mass graves for officers and generals, unable to escape off-road from shelling or air raids. The most, perhaps, the biggest problem after the Wehrmacht attack will be the lack of a proper number of special vehicles in the Red Army: tankers, tankers, mobile repair shops for the same armored vehicles. By the beginning of the war, the provision of mechanized corps with them was at most 40%. However, there were parts where it did not even reach 7%.

How it all backfired on our army in the terrible 1941 is a topic for another conversation. However, in any case, we should not rashly judge and assess: we were preparing with all our might, and for the maximum mechanization of the Red Army from 1918 to 1941, even more was done than might have been expected.
Author:
Photos used:
Wikipedia / Truck GAZ-AA
113 comments
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 July 2020 05: 27 New
    17
    And it's all? A little too little information and photos !!! Even about the Russian automobile heritage in the young Soviet republic could be covered with only a couple of works !!!
    Eh! We will wait for advanced members of the forum, perhaps someone will throw information and photos!
    Good day everyone, with respect! Kote!
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 21 July 2020 06: 36 New
      13
      Vlad, hello and good morning! hi
      I completely agree with your assessment, the article seemed to be written on the go, on my knee in public transport. If only photos were thrown for review. But the topic is very interesting and not one article. Here's what I quickly found:
      1) AMO-F-15.
      2) AMO-2.
      3) I-5.


      1. Catfish
        Catfish 21 July 2020 06: 44 New
        12
        Here's another GAZ-AAA, the same lorry, only three-axle and up to a heap of ZIS-5.

        1. hohol95
          hohol95 21 July 2020 09: 01 New
          10
          At the same time, the GAZ-AAA chassis was the basis for Soviet armored vehicles. Especially when upgrading older models.
      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 12: 56 New
        +6
        Quote: Sea Cat
        1) AMO-F-15.

        By the way, AMO has a very interesting story.
        When the pre-war FIAT 15-Ter vehicle kits ran out, the plant moved in 1918 from assembling to repairing everything that moved - from motorcycles to tractors. And in 1919 he focused on the repair and restoration of "white" - three tonnes. But! This repair was in those conditions, of course, from the category "I blinded him from what was .." - the Americans were equipped with Fiat engines of 35 hp. (not pulling a shit, of course), handicraft gearboxes, Fiat radiators and their own cab design. 5 whites have been restored in 130 years. But - as a result of this extreme activity, the plant workers studied the materiel so much that by 1924 they prepared their version of White for serial production - AMO U-3.
        However, the party decided to release the proven FIAT 15.

        The photo below shows the Yaroslavl autocar on the basis of white 3t. and actually itself "restored" on AMO white

        1. Catfish
          Catfish 21 July 2020 13: 55 New
          +2
          That's interesting. hi And what are the gizmos in front of the front wheels in the top photo, do you know?
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 14: 31 New
            +2
            Quote: Sea Cat
            And what are the gizmos in front of the front wheels in the top photo, do you know?

            I know. These are brushes)
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 21 July 2020 15: 29 New
              +2
              What for? Isn't this a rail option?
              1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 15: 32 New
                +2
                I wrote:
                Yaroslavl autocar on the basis of white 3t.

                of course, railway)
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 21 July 2020 15: 34 New
                  +2
                  I needed to read more carefully. smile
                  1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 15: 39 New
                    +7
                    no problem))
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 21 July 2020 15: 45 New
                      +3
                      Our GAZ-51 with Americans on board and with Browning's fifty kopecks. Korea?
                      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                        Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 15: 51 New
                        +6
                        She's the most) Trophy 51N, an impromptu railcar with a GI from the 2nd Infantry Division on board)
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 21 July 2020 15: 56 New
                        +2
                        The guys settled down fine laughing , I wonder if they changed the rear discs, or how do they ride the front discs? It seems that they did change it, there used to be a gable.
                      3. Dr. Frankenstucker
                        Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 16: 19 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        or how on the front, relatives, ride ?.

                        yes, no problems.
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 21 July 2020 16: 23 New
                        +1
                        Well, they somehow repaid for the "Studers" with the "Willis", now they also rode on our "Lawn". wink
                      5. Dr. Frankenstucker
                        Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 16: 34 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        now they also rode our "Lawn".

                        more often, alas, it's still like this:
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 21 July 2020 16: 59 New
                        +2
                        Well, war is war, what can you do ... request
                      7. Dr. Frankenstucker
                        Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 17: 07 New
                        +3
                        that is yes.
                        and here is the Ho Chi Minh trail:




                        all faces are also familiar - cleavers and half a hundred first (well, more precisely, 63)
            2. Serg koma
              Serg koma 8 October 2020 04: 16 New
              0
              For reference: The plant was founded as "Nizhny Novgorod Automobile Plant named after V. M. Molotov."
              On July 8, 1957, a meeting of many thousands was held at the car plant, at which the secretary of the Gorky regional committee Ignatov himself spoke. He reported on the work of the June Plenum of the Central Committee of the Party, outlined his decisions on the anti-party group, spoke about the grandiose achievements of the Soviet Union in the field of industry and agriculture, and invited the workers to send a request to withdraw from the Molotov plant.
              In November 1957, the Molotov State Automobile Plant was officially renamed the Gorky Automobile Plant.

        2. not main
          not main 21 July 2020 22: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
          no problem))

          How to slow down? I will not delve into the theory (although I could, but most people are not interested here), just such experiments were made by the magazine "Za Rulem" with UAZ "Patriot" who are interested in just the site "Za Rulem"!
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 21 July 2020 07: 06 New
    18
    Did I just read this? ...
    Epigraph to the article ?!
    The author has not watched the cycle "Cars in epaulettes" from the studio "Wings of Russia"? Haven't read Evgeny Kochenev ?!
    Or, as a student, remembering in the last place that you need to submit an essay, "on your knee" wrote half a page ?!
    1. Dimka75
      Dimka75 21 July 2020 08: 25 New
      +9
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Or, as a student, remembering in the last place that you need to submit an essay, "on your knee" wrote half a page ?!

      Don't hurt students. They write for free.
  • hohol95
    hohol95 21 July 2020 08: 57 New
    +9
    Good morning! Comments will be on three articles! hi
  • serg.shishkov2015
    serg.shishkov2015 21 July 2020 09: 55 New
    +3
    Several years ago I was lucky - I found a book that I had dreamed of for a long time- * Cars of the Red Army 1918-1945 *, I was purposefully looking for a book with SUCH title! And after a couple of years in addition- * All-terrain vehicles of the Red Army *
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 21 July 2020 12: 12 New
    +6
    And it's all? A little too little information and photos !!!

    what did you expect, my dear friend? I just don't understand why such articles are printed in the history section. It was said repeatedly on the forum - not by me, by many, and user comments are much more informative. With all the deep respect to the administration, it becomes unclear why this author is being pushed hard into this section. hi
  • Doctor
    Doctor 21 July 2020 08: 14 New
    +5
    In June 1941, the Red Army's vehicle fleet was already more than 270 thousand vehicles of various types. Is it a lot or a little?

    Few, of course. During the war, another 265 were produced, another 600 came along the Lend-Lease, but still not enough until the end of the war.
    1. oldbuddy
      oldbuddy 21 July 2020 11: 03 New
      +1
      GAVTU KA SUPPLY DEPARTMENT REPORT ON WORK DURING THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR
      28 September 1945 g
      ....
      "5. Change of car fleet during the war years

      A. Increase in vehicle fleet.

      The car park of the Red Army continuously increased during the war and amounted to 1.05.1945 664 cars as of 455/2,4/1941, i.e. increased by XNUMX times compared to XNUMX

      The increase in the vehicle fleet was due to domestic, imported and captured vehicles (thousand units):

      On 22.06.1941
      Domestic 272,6
      On 1.01.1942
      Domestic 317,1 Trophy 1,4
      On 1.01.1943
      Domestic 378,8 Imported 22,0 Trophy 3,7
      On 1.01.1944.
      Domestic 387,0 Imported 94,1 Trophy 14,9
      On 1.01.1945
      Domestic 395,2 Imported 191,3 Trophy 34,7
      On 1.05.1945
      Domestic 385,7 Imported 218,1 Trophy 60,6

      As can be seen from the table, the share of domestic vehicles is decreasing due to the receipt of imported and captured vehicles, as well as the increased write-off for the last period of GAZ and ZIS vehicles that entered the army for mobilization from the national economy and have passed their depreciation periods. "
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 21 July 2020 12: 15 New
        0
        As can be seen from the table, the share of domestic cars

        There is one more nuance, for example, in 1945, there were 24 tank and 12 mechanized corps in the active army, and there were 40 mobile units in the army (not counting the cavalry).
    2. Alf
      Alf 21 July 2020 19: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: Arzt
      but still not enough until the end of the war.

      You are right, Yuri, but show me at least some fighting army, in which there were enough trucks.
    3. Kart
      Kart 22 July 2020 09: 27 New
      -1
      Not just a little, but too little.
      Sales from G. Ford in 1914 year amounted to 308 cars

      For example.
  • Avior
    Avior 21 July 2020 08: 19 New
    +8
    Unfortunately, under the Union, the monuments to soldiers, motorists and their faithful vehicles received less attention than tankers, for example.
    But they were
    In 1968, the first such monument in Bryansk - a whole complex was built on the site of the formation of the 19 auto brigade.

    Another notable monument on the Simferopol highway in Zaporozhye was built in 1976 at the request of veterans - motorists - combat ZIS 5v, which, among other things, took part in the crossing of the Dnieper of the benefits of the war

    Then it was customary for drivers to greet such monuments with a horn.
    Later they built more, but it cannot be said that there are too many.
    Now, fortunately, a movement has emerged to restore old cars, including military ones.
    Such a memory must be carefully preserved
    1. serg.shishkov2015
      serg.shishkov2015 21 July 2020 10: 00 New
      +2
      As a child, I heard a song about GAZ-AA- * Lorry on the regional radio! Lorry! A GAZ car! * There were also words how during the war years she more than once had to pull out of the mud * her friend M-1 *
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 21 July 2020 19: 47 New
      +1
      There are two such monuments in Kiev ...
      Now I will search and download ...

      .
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 21 July 2020 08: 31 New
    +8
    It will not be enough. And there is no illustrative material at all. Was the author late for work?
  • hohol95
    hohol95 21 July 2020 08: 52 New
    +7

    ZIS-6
    On the YAG-10 truck -
    equipped with an imported engine and until 1940 inclusive, YAGAZ assembled only 158 trucks and 165 units of equipment for re-equipment.
    Engines for these machines were purchased under separate contracts in relatively small quantities. At the same time, curious processes took place. Thus, the Azneft organization needed powerful trucks, but YAGAZ could not supply them. To solve this problem, oilmen independently purchased the necessary components from the United States and sent them to Yaroslavl.
    In 1936, the project YAG-10M was developed. It provided for the use of a new ZIS-16 engine and a different transmission. In the near future, such a truck was supposed to enter the series and solve the problem of engines. However, only 10 prototypes were built. The reasons for this are trivial: Plant them. Stalin was able to satisfy only his needs and could not supply engines to other enterprises.

    IN
    Truck YAG-10. The first Soviet triaxial.
    Ryabov Kirill
    YAGAZ - The Yaroslavl plant did not have its own motor production and was forced to use the engines of the ZIS plant or purchased American Hercules brands!

    Captured YAG-6 vehicles in Finland (from the funds of the War Museum in Helsinki)
    YAG-6 is a Soviet heavy cargo vehicle with a carrying capacity of 5 tons.
    1936 units were built from 1943 to 8075.
    The car was equipped with engines - ZIS-5, Hercules-YXC-B (50 pcs.), ZIS-16 (16 pcs.).
  • Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 21 July 2020 09: 09 New
    +4
    On the screensaver, the legendary "lorry". My aunt Mani's husband, the brave mustachioed foreman, Uncle Sasha Osminin, turned the wheel like this near Leningrad and in the Baltic states. I am VERY sorry now that I - a stupid boy of the 50s - did not ask him about the front, the blockade and his medals ...
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 16: 01 New
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
      On the screensaver, the legendary "lorry". My aunt Mani's husband, the brave mustachioed foreman, Uncle Sasha Osminin, turned the wheel like this near Leningrad and in the Baltic states.

      Vladimir, nevertheless, in the picture there is a "civilian" version - a bent wing, a bumper, a one-piece cabin, a janitor (!!), a "civilian" body with all folding sides .. I dare to assume that Uncle Sasha turned the steering wheel of a simpler car - MM-V. This is just a guess)
      1. Vladimir Mashkov
        Vladimir Mashkov 21 July 2020 17: 04 New
        0
        No, in the picture there is still a "civilian" version: there is a wiper, a bent fender and a bumper. But the doors of the cab and the body are not visible. Well, ahead of us is the brave foreman, Uncle Sasha, with a mustache, in a garrison cap famously shifted to the right, in a faded tunic and with some kind of belt over his right shoulder.
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 17: 25 New
          -2
          I talked about the title picture of the post.
          1. Vladimir Mashkov
            Vladimir Mashkov 21 July 2020 17: 27 New
            0
            And I - about the picture of Uncle Sasha: he drove the "civilian" version.
            1. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 17: 28 New
              -1
              ah, I got it. This means that he was wrong in his assumptions.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 21 July 2020 09: 36 New
    +9
    In June 1941, the Red Army's vehicle fleet was already more than 270 thousand vehicles of various types. Is it a lot or a little? You can judge for yourself, based on the fact that by that time there were 700 thousand trucks for the entire USSR.

    Why judge for yourself, if there is widely known in narrow circles "Fedorenko's report" - The report of the head of the GABTU to the Main Military Council of the Red Army on the state of the provision of armored vehicles and transport equipment of the Red Army on June 1, 1941
    It clearly describes all the gaping heights of the motorization of the Red Army:
    The need for war:
    Passenger cars and PIKAP - 49305
    Trucks GAZ - 213571
    Trucks ZIS - 257256
    Workshops type "A" - 7972
    Workshops type "B" - 4378
    Gas tank trucks - 60914
    CCD - 2571
    Other special vehicles - 159911
    Total vehicles: 755878

    Availability on 15.06.41/XNUMX/XNUMX:
    Passenger cars and PIKAP - 17280
    Trucks GAZ - 117415
    Trucks ZIS - 75803
    Workshops type "A" - 2729
    Workshops type "B" - 1556
    Gas tank trucks - 11252
    CCD - 725
    Other special vehicles - 45380
    Total vehicles: 272140

    Wartime incomplete:
    Passenger cars and PIKAP - 32025
    Trucks GAZ - 96156
    Trucks ZIS - 181453
    Workshops type "A" - 5243
    Workshops type "B" - 2822
    Gas tank trucks - 49662
    CCD - 1846

    Other special vehicles - 114531
    Total vehicles: 483738

    Will receive machines for mobilization from the bunk. farms:
    Passenger cars and PIKAP - 23864
    Trucks GAZ and ZIS - 209880
    Workshops type "A" - no
    Workshops type "B" - no
    Gas tanks - no
    CCD - no

    Other special vehicles - 6000
    Total vehicles: 239744

    Lack of income taking into account from the Nar. farms:
    Passenger cars and PIKAP - 8161
    Trucks GAZ and ZIS - 67729
    Workshops type "A" - 5243
    Workshops type "B" - 2822
    Gas tank trucks - 49662
    CCD - 1846
    Other special vehicles - 108531
    Total vehicles: 243994

    That is, even taking into account the receipt of vehicles for mobilization, the Red Army will have only 2/3 of the cars from the state. And this is the "average temperature in the hospital." And if you dig deeper, it turns out that the biggest shortage falls on the most needed vehicles - three-ton trucks, which even have to be replaced 1: 1 by one and a half, breaking all the logistics supply schemes.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 21 July 2020 09: 38 New
    +5
    Here's a little more about vehicles from this report:
    The Red Army has a significant shortage of VMS trucks, type “A” and “B” workshops, and marching and charging stations.
    It will not be possible to count on the lack of coverage for these machines, due to mobilization supplies from the national economy, as the experience of the Polish and Finnish campaigns has shown, since a huge number of cars will arrive at the delivery points in poor technical condition and with worn out rubber.
    The release of NCOs of motor vehicles, and in particular, cargo VMS, has so far been insufficient. With an annual application of NPOs in 93450 vehicles, of which GAZ - 40785, ZIS - 43205, others - 9550 or 66,5% of the total production - 140000 cars per year.
    For five months, delivered: 27633 vehicles or 29,5% of the annual application of NPOs.
    The shortage of vehicles at the request of the NPO did not make it possible to provide motorized events organized by the Army.
    The supply of the Red Army with special vehicles is limited, on the one hand, by a shortage of special equipment (machines, tools, etc.), and on the other hand, by 3-axle vehicles, on which about 50% of all types of special vehicles are mounted.
    The planned transfer of a number of special vehicles to trailers today is not provided with the necessary release of the corresponding types of trailers.
    Existing terrain vehicles on the army’s supply do not meet modern requirements, it is necessary:
    1. Organize mass production of passenger cars and off-road trucks with 2 and 3 drive axles.
    2. To work in the rear of the army for the delivery of goods, some cars should be produced with a carrying capacity of 6-10 tons.
    3. To increase the supply of ZIS trucks to 70-80% of the total number of trucks delivered by NPOs, since the shortage in the Red Army is mainly due to this type of vehicles, the replacement of which by GAZ trucks is impractical due to an increase in the driving force and rear military units.
    1. Vovk
      Vovk 21 July 2020 10: 05 New
      +2
      And the main question! Why so few vehicles were produced for the needs of spacecraft What were the resources and minds of the auto industry spent on?
      And the answer is simple.
      On armored cars!
      BA-I - 109 pcs.
      BA-10 - 3414 pcs.
      KS-18 - 94 pcs.
      On aircraft engines!
      In a letter dated May 13, 1941 "On the possibilities of production of armored vehicles GAZ-62" (this name was also held according to the documentation), the head of ABTU 1st rank military engineer Korobkov mentioned the following:
      “… The main difficulty for putting into production the GAZ-62 is the plant's workload with aviation orders. After the preparation for the production of the K-10 aircraft engine, the task has now been given to prepare a new aircraft engine. This loads the tool base and completely prevents you from getting ready for the production of new cars.
      On light tanks!
      T-40 - 960 pcs.
      T-60 - 5665 pcs.
      T-70 - 8231 pcs.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 21 July 2020 10: 26 New
        +7
        Quote: Vovk
        And the answer is simple.
        On armored cars!
        BA-I - 109 pcs.
        BA-10 - 3414 pcs.
        KS-18 - 94 pcs.

        A drop in the ocean amid a shortage of hundreds of thousands of cars.
        Moreover, the BA-10 was produced on the GAZ chassis, of which there was an excess in the army.
        Quote: Vovk
        On aircraft engines!

        And the military engineer of the 1st rank Korobkov did not accidentally mention - but what about the development of CV joints for the GAZ-62? Or with domestic tires? For the tests of the machine took place, EMNIP, on imported rubber.
        Quote: Vovk
        On light tanks!

        T-60 and T-70 are already wartime. When the army, with an accelerated pace of loving pre-war reserves, demanded at least something with armor.
        1. Vovk
          Vovk 21 July 2020 14: 35 New
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Quote: Vovk
          A drop in the ocean amid a shortage of hundreds of thousands of cars.
          Moreover, the BA-10 was produced on the GAZ chassis, of which there was an excess in the army.

          First of all, what is the surplus of GAZ chassis in the army, if literally any transport was lacking?
          Because of this, the artillery was pulled by our horses until 1943?
          Secondly, it was a squandering of resources, and so choking from "left" orders of the auto industry ... maybe 3000 gas tanks instead of producing unarmored vehicles would be that missing "straw" in border battles?
          And in the third, experts of the auto industry, instead of increasing the reliability of the same 3-ton ZISs and increasing their number, were engaged in outright fraud in the form of the release of one and a half, non-armored vehicles, small T-40 tanks (and then T-60, T-70), and even engaged in aircraft engines (although the problem with conventional auto-motors never went away).
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 21 July 2020 15: 03 New
            +4
            Quote: Vovk
            First of all, what is the surplus of GAZ chassis in the army, if literally any transport was lacking?

            Peacetime states:
            Peacetime Lack:
            Passenger cars and PIKAP - 8721
            Trucks GAZ - +22184
            Trucks ZIS - 40886
            Workshops type "A" - 2694
            Workshops type "B" - 2092
            Gas tank trucks - 8431
            CCD - 1135
            Other special vehicles - 35860
            Total vehicles: 77635

            As a result, before the war, the places of the missing ZISs began to be filled with "lorries".
            Quote: Vovk
            Because of this, the artillery was pulled by our horses until 1943?

            So there is no tractor from the lorry. Actually, she no longer fit as an army vehicle - the army was waiting for the GAZ-63.
            Quote: Vovk
            maybe 3000 petrol tanks instead of producing non-armored vehicles would be that missing "straw" in border battles?

            Can. If only there was a place to produce the tanks and equipment for them. EMNIP, a gas tank was a piece product that raised the cost of a gas tanker to the cost of a light tank.
            Quote: Vovk
            And in the third, the experts of the auto industry, instead of increasing the reliability of the same 3-ton ZISs and increasing their number, were engaged in outright eyewash in the form of the release of one and a half, non-armored vehicles, small-sized T-40 tanks (and then T-60, T-70)

            The auto industry specialists made a two-ton GAZ-63 before the war. But it was not possible to put it into the series - the components are yok. I have already written that even high-traffic tires were not produced in the USSR.
            The T-40 has nothing to do with the automotive industry at all - it is the brainchild of a tank plant. And the release of T-60 and T-70 at GAZ is not an initiative of the auto industry, but an indication of the State Defense Committee.
            1. Kart
              Kart 22 July 2020 09: 35 New
              -2
              The USSR produced exactly what the machines were for. And exactly in that amount.
              For the most part, this was outdated equipment, wrested from the bourgeoisie. Partially acquired.
              Real car production in the USSR began just after the Second World War after the commissioning of captured German equipment, and the receipt of American cars during the war.
              By the way, the same "Moskvich" until the very end used partially the same German machines and equipment. And "ZIL" since the days of the pre-revolutionary AMO.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 22 July 2020 10: 05 New
                +1
                Quote: Carte
                For the most part, this was outdated equipment, wrested from the bourgeoisie.

                This was until 1927. After the "War Alert", when it was suddenly discovered that the country had no industry, including due to the catastrophic wear and tear of machine tools, equipment purchases began in the West.
                Quote: Carte
                And "ZIL" since the days of the pre-revolutionary AMO.

                AMO before the revolution were able to equip machines with only 15%. Therefore, he was engaged in screwdriver assembly.
      2. strannik1985
        strannik1985 21 July 2020 11: 10 New
        +2
        And the main question! Why so few vehicles were produced for the needs of spacecraft

        https://alexanderyakovlev.org/fond/issues-doc/1012170
        Everything takes time, by 1938 the tank troops of the Red Army - 29 brigades, according to plans by 1942 there will be 40 brigades (not only tank ones), people by 01.01.1938/90/880 01.01.1943 95 people, and by 866/1938/22 400 201 people. The need for a wartime army arr. 960 in cars 81 420 cars, XNUMX XNUMX trucks and XNUMX XNUMX special.
        https://paul-atrydes.livejournal.com/139869.html
        At first, the number jumped during the events of June - August 1940 (there was a lack of equipment - 641 cars, 17 trucks, 650 special vehicles). And then very sharply after February 10, when they decided to form 580 additional mechanized corps.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 21 July 2020 13: 07 New
          +4
          Quote: strannik1985
          The numbers first jumped during the June - August 1940 events

          It all started with the reform of the summer of 1939, when they abandoned the troicad and switched to a personnel-cadre structure. There was still no smell of mech corps at that time - at first, the need for vehicles increased among the infantry.
          In accordance with the decision, on August 15, 1939, the People's Commissar of Defense, Marshal K.E. Voroshilov gave directives No. 4/2 / 48601-4 / 2/48611 to the Military Councils of Leningrad (LVO), Moscow (MVO), Kalinin (Kalinin), Belorussian (BOVO) and Kiev special (KOVO), Kharkov (KhVO), Orlovsky (OVO), Volga Privolzhsky Military District), North Caucasian (SKVO), Ural (Ural Military District) and Siberian (Siberian Military District) military districts, according to which they should have formed 25 rifle corps directorates from August 1 to December 1939, 18, transfer personnel divisions to a new staff of 8 people and deploy 900 divisions of triple deployment in 36 divisions of 92 people. On August 000, the People's Commissar of Defense reported to the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR on the provision of weapons for the proposed organizational measures; Taking into account the availability of weapons in the emergency reserve, the measures taken were generally provided with rifles, machine guns, 22-mm mortars and 82-mm guns. For self-loading rifles, 76-mm anti-tank guns, 45-mm howitzers and 122-mm anti-aircraft guns, the coverage of the shortage was expected during 76 based on their receipt from the industry, and the need for anti-tank rifles, 1939-mm heavy machine guns, 12,7 -mm, 50-mm and 107-mm mortars, 120-mm howitzers, 152-mm and 37-mm anti-aircraft guns and cars were satisfied with income from industry in 1939-1940... The People's Commissar of Defense asked for permission to use the emergency reserve, oblige the industry to fulfill the plan of military orders for 1939 and make an additional order for cars.
          © Meltyuhov
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 21 July 2020 13: 59 New
            +1
            It all started with the reform of 1939, when they abandoned the triplets

            Transport for the "troichats" is included in the mobile plan of 1938 (305 vehicles), then there were already 780 "additional" SDs for the events of 20-1938 (there were 1940 SDs, now 150) and 170-28s of 40 (1941 SDs were planned, formed 210).
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 21 July 2020 14: 14 New
              +4
              Quote: strannik1985
              Transport for "troichats" is included in the mobile plan of 1938 (305 vehicles),

              So this is for the original triplets - in case of their deployment in wartime. And in 1939, out of 36 troichats, it was decided to deploy 92 cropped rifle divisions of 6000 people. Each of these divisions demanded its own regular vehicles already in peacetime. And suddenly it turned out that the vehicles would have to be ordered additionally.
              1. strannik1985
                strannik1985 21 July 2020 16: 34 New
                +1
                And suddenly it turned out that the vehicles would have to be ordered additionally.

                This is understandable, even BUS - 1939 was not a general mobilization.
  • VIP
    VIP 21 July 2020 09: 45 New
    +4
    Is that all? It's like saying: oil is oil.
    I was counting on more
  • strannik1985
    strannik1985 21 July 2020 09: 48 New
    +5
    Много это или мало?

    Very little due to the overestimated requirements, according to the MP-41, the wartime need 755 878 vehicles, of which the GAZ trucks 213 571, the ZIS 257 256 trucks, 49 305 cars and pickups. 1 thousand vehicles, of which 1941 thousand are trucks. The country did not pull the formation of 807 tank, 704 motorized, 60 motorized rifle divisions and 30 motorized armored brigade. Their readiness is scheduled until 2 inclusive.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 21 July 2020 10: 32 New
    +5
    By the way, there was another charming moment in the "Fedorenko report":
    Car tires

    All stocks of tires available at the People's Commissariat of Defense were used up for the period 1939-1940.
    In 1941, the People's Commissariat of Defense declared 525000 sets of rubber. For the first half of 1941, a fund of 195000 sets was allocated, or 35% of the annual application.
    To meet the current demand for rubber and to replace worn-out rubber in the military districts, it is necessary in the second half of 1941 to allocate 430000 sets of rubber to the People's Commissariat of Defense.

    And then the commanders of tank and mechanized formations write in their "status reports" that they have no cars, but they cannot drive - there is no rubber (EMNIP, some had up to a third of their park idle).
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 21 July 2020 12: 13 New
      +5
      Tire fuss - Accordion collector - LiveJournal
      altyn73.livejournal.com
      The Great Depression made Americans very accommodating, and Seiberling signed a contract to develop the project and provide technical assistance in the construction and start-up of a tire plant in Yaroslavl. American engineers constantly monitored the progress of work and equipment adjustment, and in 1932 the plant produced its first products. Six years later, it reached its design capacity - 3 million tires per year - and became the first in Europe for this indicator.
      However, there were still not enough tires. General, and later Marshal Eremenko, who commanded the Special Far Eastern Army, wrote in his diary in February 1941 that a lot of cars were parked due to lack of rubber. Tire tension was observed even at the government level. Tires for government limousines were divided between the people's commissariats through their fierce correspondence with the Council of People's Commissars and with each other. What can we say about other departments, when Beria for the GULAG could not easily get a limit on several dozen additional wheels.

      One plant for the whole USSR !!!
      From the same article -
      However, the problem was that the USSR, an ally of Germany, could not obtain permission to export strategic materials from the United States. Representatives of Glavshinprom had to return home unwillingly. True, they brought a funny story about what the Americans have about Russia. One of them asked: "Is it true that you had a war between the Reds and the Whites and the Reds won?" And, having received an affirmative answer, he looked incredulously at the guests and asked: "So how did you, white people, manage to survive and get a job?"

      It was very bad in the USSR with rubber, but it was even worse with the number of factories producing such necessary products as car tires!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 21 July 2020 20: 20 New
        +2
        Therefore, for a long time in the USSR, gutta-percha was obtained from warty spindle tree.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 21 July 2020 20: 43 New
          +1
          In 1933, in the Tien Shan mountains, the aborigines pointed out to the Soviet botanists the kok-sagyz dandelion, which contained rubber. They began to sow it all over the middle lane. For their successes in mastering a new culture, village workers were awarded: a pair of galoshes for 17 kg of raw kok-sagyz roots, a pair of boots for 65 kg.

          A lot of what was used was the opportunity to get at least a "drop" of missing materials!
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 21 July 2020 20: 49 New
            +1
            Right. And they used kok-sagyz. Until they learned to synthesize rubber.
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 21 July 2020 20: 52 New
              +1
              Empire Japan simply occupied Indonesia to obtain the required amount of rubber!
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 21 July 2020 21: 14 New
                +1
                Little can be compared with Hevea as a rubber plant.
                Moreover, before the Second World War, a significant part of the rubber from Indonesia was sent to the United States and England.
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 21 July 2020 21: 18 New
                  +2
                  And we can't grow hevea ... Only dandelions ...
                  And the German does not grow ... And he made do with smuggling and synthetics ...
                  They and "Fanta" "muddied" after the termination of the supply of flavorings from "Coka-cola" ... Erzats!
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 22 July 2020 10: 09 New
              +4
              Quote: Korsar4
              Right. And they used kok-sagyz.

              Duc ... the only natural rubber plant growing on the territory of the USSR with a more or less decent yield of raw materials. Pomnitsa, Trofim Denisovich was involved in breeding issues.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 22 July 2020 23: 24 New
                +1
                And Trofim Denisovich had a lot of interesting things.
                But there are spots on the Sun too.
  • AllBiBek
    AllBiBek 21 July 2020 11: 13 New
    +3
    Yes, like the Germans in '41 - the same hodgepodge that is in trucks, that in cars.
    1. VIP
      VIP 21 July 2020 11: 43 New
      +2
      The Wehrmacht in 1941 had: its own autotransport, captured from: Czechoslovakia, France + pre-war purchases of Poland, Belgium from England and America, and Dunkirk also added trophies
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 21 July 2020 12: 15 New
      +2
      They also collected Soviet cars and tractors later. But they managed at the very least to supply their cars with spare parts and tires. And most importantly, fuel!
    3. strannik1985
      strannik1985 21 July 2020 12: 21 New
      +2
      Yes, like the Germans in 41

      In the infantry, motor transport units of the RGK (Heer), artillery, mobile troops were supplied more or less monotonously, in combat and control units of tank divisions there were a lot of off-road vehicles (at least 6x4, like the Protze tractor-transporter, the main PTO tractor and infantry in the division).
  • VIP
    VIP 21 July 2020 11: 36 New
    +2
    Quote: Dimka75
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Or, as a student, remembering in the last place that you need to submit an essay, "on your knee" wrote half a page ?!

    Don't hurt students. They write for free.

    And here is a frank hack
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 12: 24 New
    +2
    ))
    from left to right:
    Ford V8-51 (trophy)
    Peugeot 202 (trophy)
    MB 170V (trophy)
    Bedford MWD (Lend-Lease)
    GAZ-AA (pre-war, it seems, judging by the wings and two headlights)
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 12: 38 New
    +4
    It could very well be the American White truck.


    what do you mean "could"?
    Whites in the imperial army, as far as I know, were the most common foreign cargo car. Something of the order of 5 thousand was delivered during the years of WWI. On 01.07.1917/2600/2, the army had 300 whites on its balance sheet. In second place was Packard. Contrary to popular belief, by the way, that this is a purely "passenger" brand, out of XNUMX thousand units supplied to the Republic of Ingushetia, only XNUMX were passenger cars.
    So White is the undisputed leader and hard worker of the First World War and could well have stood at the origins of the mechanization of the Red Army inherited from the Empire)
    Here are the whites:


    airship launch winch:

  • Unknown
    Unknown 21 July 2020 13: 33 New
    +5
    many do not understand that the USSR began to build its industrial base from scratch. Nikolashka did not even think that the 20th century had come, and the world began to live according to the achievements of science and technology. tsarist russia did not have its own ball bearing plant, the fundamentals of mechanical engineering, there was no chemical industry of its own from the word at all, well, there was simply nothing! and most importantly, there were no specialists, there were not enough engineers, mechanics, highly qualified turners, milling cutters, grinders, etc., everything had to be created from scratch, and first of all, to eliminate illiteracy, to train our own specialists, literally in all industries. but there was not enough time for this. In 1922 the civil war ended, and in 17 years they created what they could. but there are things that you cannot slip through in 17 years - this is the culture of production, and the experience gained over the years. therefore, our equipment differed from foreign ones, in its roughness and quality, but it was there and it was possible to fight on it. she could work, on fuel of dubious quality, unpretentious in the service staff. the Germans who fought on the eastern front did not disdain our zis.
    1. iouris
      iouris 21 July 2020 13: 56 New
      -6
      Quote: Unknown
      many do not understand that the USSR began to build its industrial base from scratch. it never even occurred to nikolashka that the 20th century had come

      It is difficult to imagine a more insolent, not based on facts and immoral statement (on the next anniversary of the execution of the imperial family). Firstly, the Imperial Russian Automobile Society (IRAO) was headed by the aide-de-camp of the Emperor Svechin, a graduate of the famous law school. Prior to RAO (since 1907, IRAO) is a co-founder and leading member of the International Automobile Federation (1904), participates in the development of regulations for conducting motor rallies, made a huge contribution to the improvement of vehicle designs and traffic rules. The IRAO members were the motorists' organizations of Germany and Sweden, tk. Riga was one of the leading centers for the development of motoring. Many members of the imperial family were motorists, participants in motor rallies. It was in Russia (in Gatchina) that a regular state automobile service was created for the first time (the prototype of Garage No. 1) and training of personnel for drivers and mechanics was organized. The ZIL plant was supposed to start working in 1917.
      Be ashamed!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 21 July 2020 14: 34 New
        10
        Quote: iouris
        It is difficult to imagine a more insolent, not based on facts and immoral statement (on the next anniversary of the execution of the imperial family).

        And don't tell. Everyone knows about the unprecedented power of the RBVZ, which released 1915 cars from the start of production until 451.
        About Lessner's automobile plant, which produced about a hundred cars, after which the owner closed production and switched to the production of torpedoes for the fleet.
        About Puzyrev's car plant - 38 cars.
        About ... but no, this is all the pre-war Russian automotive industry. smile
        What do we have abroad? And there we in 1913 in Britain produced 34 cars, in Germany - 000, in France - 20 cars.
        Why do we have something like this? Because the Empire is not France or the United States. In the Empire, the entire high-tech industry begins and survives the first decades only on government orders - because the domestic market is minimal and cannot support production. And without these orders, she will not survive.
        And how did the state support the domestic vehicle manufacturer? No way. The first loans for the auto industry went only when the roasted rooster pecked - after the start of WWI, in 1915. It is no wonder that the Ryabushinsky plant built on them began work only in 1917, and only as an assembly kit from imported machine kits.
        Why is that? And because the machines managed to collect only 15% of the required number, and even with domestic components there was a full fifth point:
        Immediately, the expected difficulties on the way of establishing its own automotive industry in Russia became clear. One was that "high grades of steel, castings and forgings", bearings and rubber tires with rims would be required. Meanwhile, "high special grades of steel" "are not yet produced in Russia", only in the future "I mean ... to raise the issue of expanding, with government support, the Nevsky Shipbuilding and Mechanical Plant" specifically for the production of suitable steel, forgings, castings , bearings, etc. The conditions of government support for the emerging domestic automobile enterprises included a temporary permit for the import of 30% of materials from abroad. RAO speaker V.F. Davydov believed that "after the end of the war, this privilege will go to the detriment of the development of domestic industry ... If you equip factories and start production, having received 30% of foreign materials, entrust the management of the business to foreigners and operate on foreign capital, then is it possible under such conditions call the nascent industry Russian ".

        © Polikarpov V.V. From Tsushima to February. Tsarism and the military industry at the beginning of the twentieth century,
        Quote: iouris
        Firstly, the Imperial Russian Automobile Society (IRAO) was headed by the aide-de-camp of the Emperor Svechin, a graduate of the famous law school.

        Uh-huh ... and this is what they wrote about the domestic auto industry:
        The activists of the Russian Automobile Society noted with regret that "in peacetime nothing was done by the military department to create a domestic automotive industry."
      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 15: 00 New
        +9
        Quote: iouris
        It is difficult to imagine a more insolent, not based on facts and immoral statement (on the next anniversary of the execution of the imperial family)

        Why, I wonder, pedal the topic of the murder of the imperial family? To push your monarchist preferences?
        The speech in the commentary, to which you responded, was not about the hobbies of the nouveau riche and courtiers, and not about single enthusiasts, but about the industry as such. To consider it a few dozen "screwdriver" workshops such as Peter Ilyin's body shop in Karetnoye, or Puzyrev's factory, which he himself called nothing other than a "plant", or Lessner, or Dux is not serious, you must agree.
        So, yes, they realized it and began to attract private capital for construction in Moscow, Kineshma and Yaroslavl - but alas ... the war and the events that followed.
        So, your opponent is right - the car industry was born only under the Soviets. And - special thanks to the Great Depression)).
        1. iouris
          iouris 22 July 2020 14: 45 New
          0
          Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
          To push your monarchist preferences?

          We are not talking about any "preferences", in particular, "monarchical preferences". The activities of historical figures must be assessed objectively. The king cannot be responsible for the development of the automobile industry. What you impute to Nicholas II has objective reasons. States are developing unevenly. This topic was new at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. The country is huge, there were no highways. The main mode of transport in such a country is the railway. The railway network of Russia was built precisely under the tsarist regime. For his part, Nicholas II never impeded the development of motorism or aviation in Russia. On the contrary.
          By the way, some of the railways of Russia today are located outside the Russian Federation.
          And today the road transport of the Russian Federation is "Lend-Lease". Write better about modern "nouveau riche" and "screwdriver assembly".
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 23 July 2020 08: 25 New
            +1
            What you impute to Nicholas II has objective reasons. States are developing unevenly.

            And they develop unevenly or from a lack of minerals and other resources. Or from the policy of your own ruler and his entourage!
            There were resources in Ingushetia - it was bad with the country's development policy!
            And this policy was to be dealt with by the sovereign-father and his government ...
            And they wanted to ride a horse and a peasant cart to the 21st century!
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 23 July 2020 10: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: iouris
            The king cannot be responsible for the development of the automobile industry.

            That is, the tsar is not responsible for the lack of state support for the automotive industry in his state. It's all the bad ministers to blame. smile
            Once again: a free market with the development of new industries is not about the Empire. Back at the end of the XNUMXth century, Kazi wrote about the same Russian shipbuilding that it was a chimera supported by government orders. If there is no state support, there will be no development. If only because they started abroad earlier and will simply economically crush the new domestic industry due to serial production and production volumes.
            Vaughn, with Lessner the market decided - the plant was closed, it turned out to be more profitable for the owner to make torpedoes for the state order than cars.
      3. hohol95
        hohol95 21 July 2020 21: 14 New
        +2
        Be ashamed!

        Why be ashamed?
        The fact that the RBVZ produced 8 pieces of armored vehicles for the RIA?
        We are ashamed. All other BAs were made on the chassis purchased "over the hill"!
        Or they were made the same "over the hill"!
        What else is there to be ashamed of?
        Lack of tractor production?
        We are ashamed!
        1. iouris
          iouris 22 July 2020 17: 49 New
          0
          In this sense, you should be "on the drum". I pointed out something else to you. If you are not ashamed, I can only express regret. But I understand your reaction - it is conditioned.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 23 July 2020 08: 29 New
            +1
            I pointed out something else to you. If you are not ashamed, I can only express regret.

            Interestingly, ordinary Frenchmen grieve about the Taking of the Bastille or the execution of Louis 16, adored by them?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 23 July 2020 10: 25 New
              +2
              Quote: hohol95
              Interestingly, ordinary Frenchmen grieve about the Taking of the Bastille or the execution of Louis 16, adored by them?

              And yak! Every year they celebrate day of taking - parades, festivities and fireworks. True, these events are somehow not very similar to mourning. smile
  • iouris
    iouris 21 July 2020 13: 42 New
    -4
    "Motor transport of the RKKA" is almost exclusively Lend-Lease
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 14: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: iouris
      "Motor transport of the RKKA" is almost exclusively Lend-Lease


      Oh really? As of May 1, 1945. in the Red Army:
      total: 664 vehicles
      Of them:
      58,1% - domestic production
      32,8% - Lend-Lease
      9,1% - trophy.

      so, it is more appropriate to talk about "half", and not "almost exclusively", isn't it?
      1. iouris
        iouris 25 July 2020 15: 57 New
        0
        During the entire war, the auto industry of the USSR produced 200 thousand different cars (mostly obsolete "Americans").
        Studebaker US6 - 114 received.
        Chevrolet GT7100 - received 47 units.
        Ford G8T - (the most massively supplied non-four-wheel drive truck) - 85 thousand units received.
        Dodge WF32 (heavy) - received 9 thousand units.
        Diamond T-981 (ballast tractors) - 471 tractors received.
        This is without Willys jeeps. I wonder how the commanders would have moved without these Willys.
        It's not me - it's Google.
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 25 July 2020 20: 44 New
          -1
          How does this contradict what I have written?
          Let me explain my position: I absolutely do not support those who throw Mr. ... Mr. into Lend-Lease, but I also don’t understand those who claim that the USSR was completely sucked by Lend-Lease. Both statements are primitive.
          1. iouris
            iouris 26 July 2020 16: 59 New
            0
            It completely contradicts. The point is not to deny Lend-Lease, the point is that the automobile industry of the USSR during the war could not produce high-quality products (and still have "problems" with this), therefore it was actually stopped, and the necessary vehicles were supplied in sufficient volumes. lend-lease.
  • Normal ok
    Normal ok 21 July 2020 16: 41 New
    +4
    An article about everything and nothing. In the 5th grade, students write more meaningful essays.
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 21 July 2020 17: 28 New
      +1
      well, then the author is from 4th grade)
  • Undecim
    Undecim 21 July 2020 17: 29 New
    +9
    Site administration VO!
    Why do you instruct a propagandist who, apart from loud chatter, is not capable of any serious creative effort, to cover such topics? They read it !!! And what does the reader learn from this daztsybao? Why is the VO site so devil-may-care about its reputation?
    1. iouris
      iouris 22 July 2020 14: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: Undecim
      Why is the VO site so devil-may-care about its reputation?

      The institution of reputation has been destroyed. Apparently forever.
  • Alf
    Alf 21 July 2020 19: 52 New
    +3
    With light vehicles for the command staff, the situation was even worse: there was no question of any off-road vehicles.

    Does the GAZ-61-40 brand say anything? And NATI-AR?
    The GAZ-AA and GAZ-AAA, ZIS 5 and 6 models, as well as the most lifting (from five to eight tons) Yag trucks, which constituted the basis of its rolling stock at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, were absolutely no different from the “civil” models.

    Opel Blitz was also a civilian truck, although 82 thousand were produced.
    By the way, GAZ-AA and GAZ-AAA, like the ZIS-5 and ZIS-6, did not differ much in terms of construction, so we can talk about only two types of cars, which had a very beneficial effect on the range of spare parts and factories. But what a nightmare haunted the German repairmen throughout the war is a quiet horror, just watch the dock series Cars of the Second World War.
    1. not main
      not main 21 July 2020 23: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Alf
      But what a nightmare haunted German repairmen throughout the war,

      I don't understand "what a nightmare"? If there are spare parts, the possibility of repair, etc. If these conditions exist, any technique can be restored! Actually, just like now, it is only desirable to throw out all sorts of "devices" from "modern" technology!
      1. Alf
        Alf 22 July 2020 18: 15 New
        0
        Quote: non-primary
        I don't understand "what a nightmare"?

        A huge number of different cars.
        Quote: non-primary
        If there are spare parts,

        They are not always there at the right time in the right place and for the right type.
  • nnz226
    nnz226 21 July 2020 19: 53 New
    0
    Specifically, it backfired: thousands of abandoned tanks, tractors with attached guns, and then hundreds of thousands of soldiers' lives ...
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 21 July 2020 22: 38 New
      0
      Specifically, it backfired: thousands of abandoned tanks, tractors with attached guns, and then hundreds of thousands of soldiers' lives ...

      Tractors or, in most cases, tractors?
      Simple tractors were the main draft force on an equal footing with the horse.
      In your opinion, what could have been done after the end of the Civil War?
      How to increase the number of cars, tractors and tractors in the Red Army?
      1. Kart
        Kart 22 July 2020 09: 46 New
        -1
        Quote: hohol95
        In your opinion, what could have been done after the end of the Civil War?
        How to increase the number of cars, tractors and tractors in the Red Army?

        Build factories?
        Buy them abroad?
        All this was done, but not enough.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 22 July 2020 10: 34 New
          +4
          Quote: Carte
          Build factories?
          Buy them abroad?

          Built and bought. But iron by itself cannot design and produce technology. We need personnel. And with competent personnel in a country where the educational program operated until the end of the 30s, where in the spring of 1941 50% of recruits with three classes of education were selected for a tank division, it was tense.
          As a result, there are tractors on paper, but in reality they are not tractors, but locksmith engines Polesov.
          “… Take this tractor and try to work with a cannon: it doesn’t pull the required weight of the cannon, the power as a military vehicle is small… the uneven running, the barbaric conditions for the driver in the cabin completely devalue this tractor. And if this car is left as a transport vehicle and as a means of transporting goods, then it also does not fit in terms of carrying capacity ... The army needs three-ton vehicles, and if it is one and a half ton, then the army will not suit either ... All your transport vehicles have a unique number of shortcomings ... Maximum speed this car is 8 km / h, but usually it does 6 km / h ... the car does not pull itself at 4th speed ... if I took a combat position, and then I need to change the position immediately, and I need 40 minutes to start the tractor ... ".

          © Meeting of designers with representatives of the army regarding the operation of STZ-5. April 1941
          The official documents did not please either:
          Having abandoned the idea of ​​creating a universal machine, the plant began to produce STZ-5 tractors, which, in his opinion, meet the requirements of agriculture and transport. Nevertheless, the STZ-5 tractor did not meet these requirements in many respects, and the plant had to introduce about 900 changes in the design of the tractors it produced during these years.
          Since there was no tractor in the Red Army for divisional artillery, despite the fact that the STZ-5 tractor did not pass a single polygon test, I had to go on the use of this tractor in the Red Army as a temporary measure, until the advent of a new tractor, fully meeting the new requirements of NPOs.
          (...)
          The Stalingrad plant manufactured 2 samples of the modernized STZ-5 tractors, which were subjected to field tests in 1940. The modernized tractors did not pass the landfill tests, after which the Stalingrad plant abandoned these works and still does nothing to modernize the STZ-5 tractor ...
          The STZ-5 tractor, neither in terms of dynamic qualities, nor in terms of ease of maintenance, nor in terms of operational reliability, in any way meets the requirements for a divisional artillery tractor., and urgently requires a large number of changes covering the entire structure of the tractor ...
          Divisional artillery does not have a suitable tractorthat meets its tactical and technical data and requirements.
          © Deputy Major Ivanov, head of the mechanic department of the GABTU. June 09, 1941
          1. Alf
            Alf 22 July 2020 18: 20 New
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            Quote: Alexey RA
            where in the spring of 1941 50% of recruits with three classes of education were selected for a tank division

            And if we consider that a person with a MEDIUM education was ready to carry on his hands, and with a higher education they were excluded from the call ...
            And if you remember that in "Russia, which we have lost" 50% (!) Of the conscripts were illiterate, then by the 40th year the work was done enormous.
          2. strannik1985
            strannik1985 22 July 2020 20: 22 New
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            We need personnel.

            The Germans formed the first 3 TDs in 1935, 2 more in 1938, in total the Wehrmacht in 1939 had 13,5 (counting the cavalry brigade for 0,5 division) mobile units. By June 22, 36 formations (including 4 MD SS).
            The RKKA 29,5 until 1939, 26 (not counting the cavalry) from June 1940 and 102,5 (!!!) mobile units from February 1941. The growth rate is simply enormous.
            As a result, tractors on paper

            There are at least two exits - 76-mm cannons / 120-mm mortars, to cushion the 1910/30 howitzer, as an option, tow it according to the French system - a separate gun for the bed, a separate front end with shells, 4 tractors for a 9-gun battery are obtained.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 23 July 2020 11: 01 New
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              Quote: strannik1985
              The growth rate is enormous.

              I'm not talking about the army. I'm talking about the industry - about the very design bureaus that designed transport vehicles with a unique number of disadvantages, and about factories that aggravated design flaws with production ones. Remember the first T-34 air filter: not only is the design unusable, but also the welds are leaky.
              I brought 50% of the recruits as a snapshot of the state of society - these are the personnel BTV got even after selection.
              Quote: strannik1985
              At least two exits - 76 mm cannon / 120 mm mortars

              Only in wartime, like an ersatz. In pre-war peacetime, the GABTU wants a Kampfgroup "like the big ones," and you remember what was from the artillery at the same Eberbach near Krichev.
              Quote: strannik1985
              cushion the 1910/30 howitzer,

              Discontinued, the design bureau and the plant are busy with serial production of the M-30.
              Quote: strannik1985
              as an option, tow it according to the French system - a separate gun for the bed, a separate front end with shells, for a 4-gun battery 9 tractors are obtained

              GAU may agree. And the GABTU will crucify the one who proposed - firstly, there are no tractors in the required quantities, and, secondly, this will cause an increase in the number of equipment not only at the batteries, but also at the rear.
              And by the end of 1940, it is already clear that the body must be squeezed.
              Here Colonel-General Comrade Pavlov, using quite convincing figures and on the diagrams, pointed out the need to have a front width of 15-20 km, counting the guarantee strip of 5 km on the right and left, and the rest is left to enter the breakthrough. And we have facts when sometimes they are forced to go into a breakthrough in a strip 5-6 km wide. How can such a mass of tanks enter the breakthrough? We counted on our exercises (we even threw 2500 vehicles out of combat strength, took the essentials for life and battle), and then we have 6800 vehicles going into the breakthrough, almost 7000. How can you squeeze such a mass of vehicles on such a narrow front?
              © Khatskilevich
              One ammunition tank tank is about 100 wagons. Marshal of the Soviet Union, Comrade Budyonny, spoke of the correspondence of ammunition and fuel that must be had in a breakthrough. One ammunition approximately, as I said, is 100 wagons. Imagine what kind of rear is needed to pull it all along, especially if you have three and a half ammunition.
              © he
              1. strannik1985
                strannik1985 23 July 2020 17: 27 New
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                I'm talking about industry

                The factors mutually influenced each other - off-road vehicles (Gaz-AAA, Zis-6), "A", "B" remailers, water / oil / petrol tanks, trucks with barrels, finally, ZPU M4 and 61-K guns. 26 flexible joints and 8 body kits are easier to form than 90/30.
                50% of recruits

                The nuance is that these figures fall on June 1940 - March 1941, against the background of a general increase in the size of the army, the formation of additional 48 rifle divisions.
                Only in wartime as an ersatz

                Mortar - no, at a distance of up to 2 km when firing at horizontal targets, a mortar is more effective than a howitzer. Even in 1945, during the transition from the TC to TD, the LAP (24 76-mm guns) was reduced, but the mortar regiment (36 PM-38) was left and a howitzer battalion (12 M-30) was introduced. Of course, it is better to have 210-mm mortars in the storehouse, like Eberbach had near Krichev, but there is no choice. Just for this time you need to realize and take action.
                Discontinued, design bureau and the plant are busy with the production of M-30.

                The last 21 howitzers were produced in 1941, until 1943 the howitzer was the main one in the army.
                And the GABTU will crucify the one who proposed

                Model 1910/30 with an initial weight in combat position of 1466 kg will be carried away even by the Zis-5 / Zis-6, especially since there is no replacement (except for the 1940-mm cannon) before 76 without a new engine. But it takes time to realize this, at least several years.
                And at the end of 1940, it is clear that the body must be squeezed.

                It is not necessary, more precisely it is necessary, but not there. For example, on November 15, 1944, in the 2nd Guards TA, there are 7243 cars on the staff, 5570 according to the list. It is not surprising, because these cars, among other things, carry 69 330 rounds of 76-mm YES, 26 613 120-mm mines. If you squeeze, then the total number of tanks
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 23 July 2020 11: 03 New
              0
              By the way, at the same Meeting, Pavlov bluntly said that the functions of artillery in mechanized corps would have to be partially shifted to heavy tanks with anti-cannon armor, otherwise no rear could withstand such a consumption of shells.
              I will give some reference data on projectile consumption. If the suppression of one machine-gun nest in the field requires 76-mm - 120 shells or 122-mm howitzer shells - 80, then I ask you to calculate how many shots a tank will need to destroy one machine-gun nest? Or none, or from a distance of 1000 - 1500 m 2 - 3 shells.
              To destroy an anti-tank gun, as a rule, a 122-mm howitzer is used. You need 70 - 90 shells. I ask you: how much will a heavy tank [shells] need to suppress one anti-tank gun? Either nothing, or one shot. I repeat, for a heavy tank that does not know what the effect of an anti-tank gun is.
              In order to suppress the battery, 152 mm rounds from 400 to 700 pieces are required.
              With the massive use of tanks, I will allow myself to ask the question: how many shots will a tank company of heavy tanks need to fire in order to suppress a battery of 75-mm guns?
              As you can see, comrades, the matter is very simple and seemingly economical. I argue that having a large number of heavy tanks will greatly help the artillery in its work and will reduce the consumption of shells.
              © Pavlov
              Pavlov was shot, but his business lived on and on - the assault on the second half of the war arose from these preconditions.
              1. strannik1985
                strannik1985 23 July 2020 17: 58 New
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                Pavlov was shot, but his work lived on and on - assaultSAU of the second half of the war

                In both directions - there were self-propelled guns or TTs with a 122-mm gun, but the number of systems firing from the PDO increased - from January 1943 the Ministry of Regiment, in the MRBR light ADn, in the TK LAP, from September 1944 in the TA LABr (48 76-mm and 20 100mm cannons). Where they could not take quality (caliber), they took quantity. For example, in MK 40 Zis-3 (10 180 rounds), 100 BM-37 (16 812 min), 54 PM-38 (6834).
        2. hohol95
          hohol95 23 July 2020 08: 20 New
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          Build factories?
          Buy them abroad?

          Besides this shirt, Zin,
          You put on - one shame.
          Arshin will go to you for sewing -
          Where is the money, Zin? .. [

          Was there any finance in the country?
          Or were they barely enough for exactly what was purchased?
          So it turns out that as much equipment was purchased as the funds allowed!
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 23 July 2020 12: 23 New
    +1
    The horse as a means of transport has not been prohibited or canceled.
    By comparison, all infantry divisions, the main force of the German army, used horses as their primary means of transport. More than a million horses.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 23 July 2020 14: 06 New
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    By the way, at the same Meeting, Pavlov bluntly said that the functions of artillery in mechanized corps would have to be partially shifted to heavy tanks with anti-cannon armor, otherwise no rear could withstand such a consumption of shells.

    This is the whole problem of the Red Army at the beginning. The theory that the tank will cope with the defense itself, while not spending on ammunition, is rotten through and through. In Pavlov's imagination, the tank is something like a wunderwafe on the battlefield. Sorry, it's a mess. The tank itself did not cope with either the artillery or the infantry. Not only in 1941, but also did not cope to the end. I could not do it after the war and to this day.
    Infantry and artillery without tanks will be able to complete all tasks. But tanks without infantry and artillery will die and have no time to do anything.
  • Lewww
    Lewww 27 September 2020 08: 56 New
    0
    Nevertheless, the first cars in the ranks of the Red Army appeared even then. Of course, captured or requisitioned from the "bourgeois" (up to those confiscated from the Imperial garage) and exclusively foreign made.
    The author apparently never heard of Russo-Balt
    Mentioned above Moscow Automobile Plant supplied the Red Army with a "line" of trucks: from the first one and a half ton model AMO-F-15, which was, in fact, not the most successful copy of the same FIAT-15 Ter, to much more advanced AMO-2, AMO-3 and I-5.
    there was no plant with that name, the plant was called AMO, a little later 1st GAZ, and then ZIS.
    Ya-5 was produced not on AMO-ZIS, but in Yaroslavl on YaAZ-e.

    The article is a terrible hack, but a request to the author: if you can not write - do not write!
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 1 October 2020 14: 47 New
      0
      Quote: Lewww
      there was no factory with that name

      Actually, it was. But much later.
      In 1939, the former "State Automobile Assembly Plant named after the Communist International of Youth" was renamed to "Moscow Automobile Plant named after KIM"This plant was engaged in assembling" Russian Fords "from" foreign "components (first Ford, then GAZ).
      Quote: Lewww
      The article is a terrible hack, but a request to the author: if you can not write - do not write!