Military Review

The appearance of "Poseidon" in Russia "nullifies" the effectiveness of the American missile defense system

119
The appearance of "Poseidon" in Russia "nullifies" the effectiveness of the American missile defense system

A couple of weeks ago, the US State Department called the Russian military developments Poseidon and Burevestnik "a waste of money." The main emphasis in the department of Mike Pompeo was that in the new treaty on the reduction of offensive arms “with a high degree of probability” there will be a clause in which the ban on the aforementioned Russian promising weapons will be spelled out.


Military experts in Russia assess these statements of American representatives as a new attempt by the United States to outline the direction of the next sanctions. The whole question in this case is whether Russia, in the event of setting specific conditions on the part of the United States, will add promising weapons (the same "Petrel" and "Poseidon") to the list of prohibited weapons?

At the moment, the 2M39 Poseidon unmanned underwater vehicle with a nuclear power plant can be positioned as a response to the unilateral American withdrawal from the anti-missile defense treaty. Recall that the treaty was signed in 1972, and the United States withdrew from it in 2001. The ABM Treaty has not been in force since 2002, and the United States has deployed its missile defense facilities from Poland and Romania to South Korea.

The appearance of a Poseidon in Russia, as it is fashionable to say today, “nullifies” the effectiveness of the American missile defense system. Poseidon submersibles are the same asymmetric response that makes the entire missile defense built by Washington simply meaningless, because this system, by definition, is not capable of counteracting underwater vehicles with virtually unlimited range. Their targets are not only aircraft carrier strike groups, but also, for example, submarine bases of a potential enemy. One Poseidon - one naval base ... with dozens of ships and thousands of military personnel.

The important thing is that a couple of years ago in the USA they called Poseidon an “Kremlin animation”, and now “something went wrong,” and they require “animation” to be included in the list of prohibited weapons ...

For obvious reasons, the revision of the START treaty is extremely important for Washington. And in this edition "from the heart" will push the latest Russian weapons. But Russia has already been burned several times and understands that for overseas partners any agreement is nothing more than a piece of paper that can be torn up at any time and sent to the trash can. Hopefully, this factor will be taken into account in the new agreements with the United States.
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  1. Ilya-spb
    Ilya-spb 19 July 2020 08: 16 New
    +1
    Poseidon is not a cartoon.
    A good deterrent weapon.

    The American hysteria is understandable. Anglo-Saxons are psychologically most afraid of the threat from the sea. This is a maritime country.
    Therefore, they will squeal for a long time ...
    1. snake
      snake 19 July 2020 16: 02 New
      +6
      Quote: Ilya-spb
      Poseidon is not a cartoon.

      Not a cartoon, but something oblong, painted in checkers (or is it TPK for him?), And, according to rumors, does not have ... a unique weapon of its kind. This is what Poseidon is for the average citizen of the Russian Federation at the moment. This is if objectively and without pathos.
      1. krot
        krot 19 July 2020 18: 11 New
        +6
        Poseidon is a real weapon. And there is absolutely nothing special about it, except for a nuclear installation. Poseidon would have been harvested in Africa, but they have no power source like ours. No one has such nuclear power plants as we do! Even the USA! Technologies of the 21st century.
        And they have something to fear. Such a weapon is real only against the Anglo-Saxons. Against us it is useless from the word at all! It’s not even profitable for them to develop it)) This is why it’s on the Internet that these are cartoons, and now cartoons officially want us to include a new one in the contract, about reduction)))
        1. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 19 July 2020 21: 18 New
          -8
          Nevertheless, in England and the USA, unmanned nuclear underwater vehicles are being developed with might and main. Multi-purpose. If Poseidon is multipurpose, I respect it. If just a nuclear torpedo is a waste of people's money.
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 20 July 2020 09: 14 New
            +2
            is a nuclear torpedo bad?
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 20 July 2020 10: 48 New
              -1
              If this is a UGST with a nuclear bladder, it's just fine.
              But a torpedo for firing at continents, using a unique nuclear submarine as a carrier, is very bad. And even worse, it's just a crime that the last 949 project was not completed as a carrier of the KR Caliber, but was disfigured and turned into a carrier of Gigatorped ...
              1. Nastia makarova
                Nastia makarova 20 July 2020 13: 36 New
                0
                we have only an advantage in nuclear weapons, a gig torpedo is not bad, a deterrence weapon
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 20 July 2020 13: 56 New
                  -2
                  This is a poor deterrent weapon, because the enemy has quite adequate ASW of the North American continent. And the maximum that they need to do is to reactivate and modernize the SOSUS, and then smoke bamboo. The rest is all he has. But the missile defense capable of intercepting at least a salvo of one SSBN or Strategic Rocket Forces division he does not have and will not be for a very long time. The conclusion is quite clear. The money spent on gigatorpeda, this is money lowered into the toilet, and most importantly, another minus two nuclear multipurpose submarines.
                  Do you make a conclusion regarding the Initiators and pushers of Poseidon?
                  It was better to spend the money on Rubezh. In the case of the Great War, we have goals in Europe for which it is simply criminal to spend ICBMs.
                  1. Auto Technical Center
                    Auto Technical Center 13 August 2020 10: 45 New
                    0
                    You need to understand at least a little what "Poseidon" is. As you say, the US PLO system against him is powerless. In addition to speed characteristics, this is high maneuverability, autonomy, and, not unimportantly, the depth of approach to the goal ... Poseidon is exactly from that series when the end justifies the means, and alas, there are plenty of goals for it, you have set up bases throughout light ...
                    1. Cyril G ...
                      Cyril G ... 13 August 2020 10: 49 New
                      0
                      Quote: Autotechcenter
                      As you say, the US PLO system against him is powerless.


                      I just didn't say it
              2. Kazimirsat
                Kazimirsat 22 July 2020 13: 20 New
                0
                We have enough submarine missile carriers (not a lot, but enough to carry out containment missions.), But it is also realistic to cope with them (sink them). But Poseidon is said to be "there is no reception against scrap." And this is the most powerful deterrent argument. These two types of weapons are enough to DESTROY the entire continent.
  2. Mitroha
    Mitroha 19 July 2020 08: 21 New
    +4
    But Russia has already been burned several times and understands that for overseas partners any agreement is nothing more than a piece of paper that can be torn up at any time and sent to the trash can. Hopefully, this factor will be taken into account in the new agreements with the United States.

    Alexei, do not you think that after the first sentence, the second looks a little strange? lol
    If only to add in the treaty that in the event of a violation or unilateral withdrawal, all accessible military objects on the territory will be destroyed without warning USA guilty of violating repeat
    1. vVvAD
      vVvAD 19 July 2020 17: 41 New
      +8
      I remembered a bearded anecdote on the topic:
      The animals gathered to play cards. The bear gives up and says: "And whoever cheats, we will beat him in the face - in the impudent red face." wassat
    2. volodimer
      volodimer 19 July 2020 18: 41 New
      -1
      If only to add in the agreement that in case of violation or unilateral withdrawal, all accessible military facilities on the territory of the United States will be destroyed without warning of the perpetrator of the violation of feel

      It may be simpler: withdrawal from the contract is regarded as an act of aggression or as an act of "declaration of war", after which the party subjected to this act has the right, without notifying the initiator of these actions, to use any means to ensure its own security, including the immediate destruction of the aggressor ...
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 19 July 2020 20: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: volodimer
        If only to add in the agreement that in case of violation or unilateral withdrawal, all accessible military facilities on the territory of the United States will be destroyed without warning of the perpetrator of the violation of feel

        It may be simpler: withdrawal from the contract is regarded as an act of aggression or as an act of "declaration of war", after which the party subjected to this act has the right, without notifying the initiator of these actions, to use any means to ensure its own security, including the immediate destruction of the aggressor ...


        And what of your words?
        Should Americans describe themselves as chtoli? Destroy your missiles, turn off the NORAD warning system and go home?
        Or if they withdraw from the treaty, Russia will preemptively strike the United States, thereby unleashing a nuclear war, they will not respond with the same nuclear weapons?

        Indeed, it would be better if you learned to turn on your mind at least as often as you turn on the light in the toilet ...
  3. Maki maki
    Maki maki 19 July 2020 08: 25 New
    24
    Even if you give in in the Gorby style, you will still be deceived. Passed already.
  4. U-58
    U-58 19 July 2020 08: 34 New
    13
    That's the contract.
    Russia, too, can (and certainly will) introduce counter-conditions to the Americans. For example, to return the US missile defense system to the state of 2000, to ban the development and deployment of the space component of weapons.
    It is possible to pose a broader question: insist on fulfilling the condition of non-expansion of NATO to the east, promised by Gorbachev and demanding the exclusion from the bloc of countries of [former] popular democracy.
    True, then the negotiations will last 20 years and will not end in anything :-))))
    1. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis 19 July 2020 09: 03 New
      +8
      Quote: U-58
      It is possible to pose a broader question: insist on fulfilling the condition of non-expansion of NATO to the east, promised by Gorbachev and demanding the exclusion from the bloc of countries of [former] popular democracy.

      Obviously, this is the only question that needs to be raised. a full-fledged agreement, and not blah-blah Michal Sergeich Gorbachev .. All the same, what a far-off man led the country. Gloom. Shame. True, he could talk a lot and well, talked about everything .. And we opened our mouths to listen ... Like banderlogs .. KAA boa too Dark.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 19 July 2020 11: 23 New
        +3
        Obviously, this is the only way to ask the question. a full-fledged agreement, not blah blah Mikhal Sergeich Gorbachev ..
        Moreover, to carry out such items, set emergency dates bordering on emergency evacuation of personnel from the occupied territory on alarm. With the physical destruction of all weapons and infrastructure by sappers. And only so. No "we will slowly withdraw and take out" or "utilize / demilitarize / store according to the schedule".
        To motivate the fact that the deadlines have long passed within the framework of agreements with the USSR.
        1. volodimer
          volodimer 19 July 2020 18: 44 New
          +2
          The conclusion of the GSVG is a rare shame.
      2. ver_
        ver_ 19 July 2020 11: 35 New
        0
        ... he could run her across the field - his jacket was already wrapped ...
      3. Machito
        Machito 19 July 2020 12: 33 New
        +9
        Agrees with the USA useless a priori. Gangsters understand only the language of power.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 19 July 2020 20: 43 New
          -5
          Quote: Bearded
          Agrees with the USA useless a priori. Gangsters understand only the language of power.

          Well, punish them, such disgusting ...
          From your battle couch ...
    2. Simon
      Simon 19 July 2020 09: 05 New
      +7
      There is no need for Americans to follow the lead! Gorbachev has already done well in this. Beyond the treaty, in due time, it destroyed a bunch of our strategic missiles. The Americans, even in joy, sent hydraulic powerful scissors for free to cut our missiles. In addition, there was an agreement, during the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, so that the countries that were in the Warsaw Pact would not be included in NATO. And what we got! And they got what they reduced their nuclear potential, and NATO expanded eastward. So that the Americans spat on all the contracts. For them, a piece of paper, worth nothing.
    3. Voyager
      Voyager 19 July 2020 09: 05 New
      +5
      True, then the negotiations will last 20 years and will not end in anything :-))))


      It suits us perfectly. IMHO.
    4. Free wind
      Free wind 19 July 2020 09: 08 New
      -15
      No one in the USSR promised anything. The USSR did not ask for anything. The West was ready to make concessions, but no one even made any proposals.
      1. Voyager
        Voyager 19 July 2020 09: 16 New
        10
        The West was ready to make concessions

        Nice joke, thank you good
        1. Free wind
          Free wind 19 July 2020 10: 37 New
          -1
          At least inquired about the history of German reunification. When the Germans were waiting for many demands and were ready for them, right up to the withdrawal from NATO. offered the USSR to build apartments for servicemen withdrawn from Germany, so what? but nothing, they took money, where they went, no one knows. Shevernadze was held in high esteem; no one argued with him. He said. that we do not need anything except money, then we do not need it. exaggerate of course, but something like that.
        2. doubovitski
          doubovitski 19 July 2020 11: 03 New
          -12
          Quote: Voyager
          The West was ready to make concessions

          Nice joke, thank you good

          How can you say something good to this shit?
          1. Voyager
            Voyager 19 July 2020 12: 29 New
            +3
            That was sarcasm.
            1. Fan-fan
              Fan-fan 19 July 2020 19: 25 New
              +5
              "Free Wind" is right, guys, you need to be interested in history, and not just get knowledge from TV.
              The Americans even offered us to leave the troops in Germany, after unification, and they offered a lot of normal things, but Gorby turned out to be a very weak politician.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 July 2020 21: 37 New
          10
          Quote: Voyager
          Nice joke, thank you

          Unfortunately, this is not a joke. With the then USSR, the West was ready to really bargain - and in some way make concessions. Then no one had expected that indelible spot on our history stupidly merge everything and everyone, without putting forward any counter requirements.
          1. Voyager
            Voyager 19 July 2020 22: 31 New
            0
            I am convinced that the Americans had a calculation from the very beginning.
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 20 July 2020 07: 53 New
              12
              Not really. They did not expect the USSR to disintegrate. Waited for it to recede. And in principle, it would be possible to bargain for something for the retreat. A little, but you can. And Gorby just merged.
    5. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 19 July 2020 11: 21 New
      +1
      Russia, too, can (and certainly will) introduce counter-conditions to the Americans. For example, to return the US missile defense system to the state of 2000, to ban the development and deployment of the space component of weapons.
      In this case, it should demand not to withdraw the materiel into the United States, but to undermine it on the spot under the supervision of our side. And even with the participation of the demolition of the opposite, that is, our side. Moreover, to set the deadline for undermining in 24 hours from the date of entry into force of the new agreements.
      1. Machito
        Machito 19 July 2020 12: 35 New
        -5
        There can only be one requirement: return Alaska.
  5. Polymer
    Polymer 19 July 2020 09: 00 New
    +5
    Strategic weapons are an excellent and necessary thing in the economy of a serious power. It cools hot heads well and restrains from a direct military attack.
    But we must remember that the USSR was invincible militarily, but lost cold war. Lost economically. Yes, degenerates and traitors in power, the crisis of governing the country - all this also happened, but "being determines consciousness", alas, played a leading role.
    So, the overwhelming majority of the population will not have a good life and some unifying goal - all these magnificent weapons will be useless.
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek 19 July 2020 09: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: Polymer
      but lost the cold war. Lost economically.

      The USSR economically did not lose anything. At the start, the forces were not at all equal. Stalin had a gold reserve of 3 thousand tons. This is about the same. how many looted by fascists Belgium.
      The USSR lost the ideological war. All these promises of communism in 20 years ... it was necessary to fulfill or not ....
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 19 July 2020 10: 18 New
        -6
        In 1986, the USSR had 427 tons of gold in reserves. And the USSR in economic terms just lost with a bang.
      2. volodimer
        volodimer 19 July 2020 19: 07 New
        +4
        It's not a matter of gold reserves, remember A.S. Pushkin ... from Eugene Onegin
        As the state grows rich,
        And what lives, and why
        He does not need gold,
        When a simple product has.

        It is very important ... We are investing in industry or we are saving banks ...
        Khrush made promises about 20 years, he made a noise and made unrealizable promises, but even with him factories were built, Under Brezhnev BAM ... the country was developing industrially.
        But how much we lost in ideology .. There they also had mostly zvizdyzh. What an "American dream", without money you can only rise on deception.
        And the speeches were and their suppression. But we turned out to be more passionate, plus at this moment the leaders wanted everyone for the presidency. And when expectations did not merge with reality, they took and broke the country. Now we have realized and we are sorry.
  6. Poetry
    Poetry 19 July 2020 09: 03 New
    +2
    Considering that all their naval bases and defense enterprises are located on the coasts, then yes, this is a weighty club.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 19 July 2020 09: 33 New
      +4
      It would be interesting to see a naval base somewhere in the rocky mountains of America, aircraft carriers on the plains, not on the ocean.
      1. Poetry
        Poetry 19 July 2020 09: 48 New
        -5
        Captain evidence, Russian version. It’s obvious that they’re a Cuban.
  7. Observer2014
    Observer2014 19 July 2020 09: 12 New
    +6
    The important thing is that a couple of years ago in the United States they called Poseidon the "animation of the Kremlin", but now "something went wrong", and the "animation" is required to be included in the list of prohibited weapons ...
    Yes, for God's sake. Let them contribute at least a hundred times a day. This is their paper. What they want is written.
    But how to conclude agreements with them now? That is the question. And how to believe them now. "Poseidon" they were going to forbid.
    1. Kazimirsat
      Kazimirsat 22 July 2020 13: 55 New
      0
      Treaty with the Anglo-Saxon
      not worth the paper it is written on.

      The Anglo-Saxons do not have permanent friends, they do not have permanent enemies, only their interests are eternal, for the achievement of which they will be friends or fight (by the wrong hands).

      How hard it is to live when no one is at war with Russia.

      WING PHRASES THAT YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ALWAYS WHEN THERE IS A DESIRE TO CONCLUDE ANY AGREEMENT WITH ANGLOSAXES.
  8. Grazdanin
    Grazdanin 19 July 2020 09: 21 New
    +5
    And here I do not understand the missile defense, isn't it PLO Engaged in submarines? Has the US PLO ceased to exist? How will this torpedo affect US defenses? How hundreds of thousands of civilians will be killed, it is clear how they will not approach the base. https://topwar.ru/173094-vms-ssha-zakazali-razrabotku-bezjekipazhnogo-korablja-srednego-klassa-musv.html#comment-id-10594736 These ships will solve all issues with PLO.
    They just took another backlog of the USSR and implemented it.
    1. doubovitski
      doubovitski 19 July 2020 11: 12 New
      -10
      Quote: Grazdanin
      And here I do not understand the missile defense, isn't it PLO Engaged in submarines? Has the US PLO ceased to exist? How will this torpedo affect US defenses? How hundreds of thousands of civilians will be killed, it is clear how they will not approach the base. https://topwar.ru/173094-vms-ssha-zakazali-razrabotku-bezjekipazhnogo-korablja-srednego-klassa-musv.html#comment-id-10594736 These ships will solve all issues with PLO.
      They just took another backlog of the USSR and implemented it.

      It will do at depth. Quiet. In advance. No dust and noise. He lays down at a depth of a couple of hundred meters and will wait. An explosion of ten megatons causes a wave that increases in height as it approaches the coast and due to a decrease in depth, proportionally. With a depth of several meters off the coast, the wave grows hundreds of times. Considering that the main centers, their population density are just near the coast, the efficiency will be quite good. Not only tsunamis, but also nuclear contamination. The closedness of the bays, where the bases are usually hidden, enhances the impact. Didn’t finish my studies, or what? A wheel, a rocket - the groundwork used by mankind for thousands of years. Torpedo. The groundwork used by humanity for a couple of centuries. Steamer ...... What did you mean by that, unfinished?
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 19 July 2020 14: 18 New
        +4
        Quote: doubovitski
        It will lay down at a depth of a couple of hundred meters and will wait.

        And what do you order to do with the reactor? What thread have you read / know about cooling circuits? Or did you decide to scribble anyhow? lol
      2. Serg4545
        Serg4545 19 July 2020 18: 52 New
        -2
        Quote: doubovitski
        Not only tsunamis, but also nuclear contamination. The closedness of the bays, where the bases are usually hidden, enhances the impact.


        I guess, yes. But I want to note that the developers of Poseidon officially stated:
        That Poseidon is not so much a super-large torpedo as a mini-submarine. And, optionally, Poseidon can carry (and launch) conventional torpedoes and cruise missiles (which are launched from a torpedo tube).
        That is, in the right equipment, Poseidon does not need to break through to the harbor (where he will become vulnerable in shallow water). Poseidon equipped with cruise missiles with nuclear warheads, being 200 km away from the coast, can destroy both coastal targets and in the interior of the continent. And several different goals!
        And he himself will remain intact. And theoretically it can go back to recharge. And then on a new assignment)
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 19 July 2020 11: 14 New
      +5
      Poseidon is a grandiose victory for sawmills, corrupt officials and Russia's enemies.
      So everything is correct to provide protection from Poseidon, the task is an order of magnitude easier than to provide a real missile defense against an ICBM salvo of one Strategic Missile Forces division.
      In my opinion, for the fifth time I am already writing here, Poseidon would have made at least some sense if there was no talk of any PLA carriers, if they were released after the exchange of strikes, with the destroyed intelligence system of the enemy, etc. etc. That is, if the gigatorpeda were delivered by a tank trawl and could be launched from any pier, with an ordinary truck crane. Only then would it make sense. And so far, for the sake of uh, lobbyists disfigured one nuclear submarine. A fleet of 72x Caliber carriers would be several orders of magnitude more needed .. And money and resources banged into the second submarine. And all this is happening at a time when the operational readiness level of multipurpose nuclear submarines on the fleet's lists is less than 50 percent.
      In reality, 11 multipurpose nuclear submarines out of 23 listed are in service today.
      And the situation with Project 971 Hunters is even worse. In the system 3 ships out of 10. Paragraph. Arrived. And the role of multipurpose nuclear submarines is enormous. This is primarily to support the operations of NSNF, etc. etc. What about us? In reality, there are 11 combat-ready SSBNs for 8 multipurpose nuclear submarines. The need for multi-purpose workers is greater at times. But we boosted billions of dollars. to Poseidons.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 19 July 2020 11: 23 New
        +2
        I agree 100% Poseidon and Petrel are stillborn projects that spend money instead of the necessary ones. They can be destroyed at any time, detected and controlled without the slightest problem. Only our land is polluted. The current government for the United States does nothing wrong, all in the suit.
        1. Machito
          Machito 19 July 2020 12: 41 New
          -2
          Poseidon is just the first swallow. You have to start somewhere. Without launching Belka and Strelka, the ISS cannot be built.
          1. Grazdanin
            Grazdanin 19 July 2020 13: 09 New
            +5
            What other swallow? This "swallow" is already 50-60 years old. It was developed during the USSR and recognized as not effective.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 19 July 2020 14: 42 New
              0
              It was a deal. The Navy from this garbage carefully pushed off. The revival of gigatorpeda is the fruit of megaraspil and intrigue in the triangle of the GUGI (de facto not part of the Navy), the General Staff and the Navy Command.

              What other swallow?

              I'm interested in here the reactor for the Petrel and Poseidon. What are its parameters, and where is it really applicable!
            2. Voyager
              Voyager 19 July 2020 22: 36 New
              +1
              You have a chronic tendency to lie. In the USSR, the T-15 was being developed, and Status-6 is already another project, which, before being destroyed, still needs to be discovered. And there may be several options for equipment, as well as for application purposes.
              1. timokhin-aa
                timokhin-aa 20 July 2020 07: 56 New
                +3
                The technical justification for Poseidon was made in 1984, the entire package of documents was signed by the then head of the Kap-1 UPV of the Navy, R. Gusev, it was he who ran through the "high offices" from the Ministry of Defense to the USSR Academy of Sciences, collected visas ..
                Then the design began, and as they decided on the dimensions of the future product, they laid the first carrier - B-90.
                Then, however, a puncture came out with dimensions and the boat had to be lengthened.
                Before you make such claims, study a little the subject.
                1. Voyager
                  Voyager 20 July 2020 23: 33 New
                  0
                  Before you make such claims, study a little the subject.

                  What statements are you talking about? Also want to say that Poseidon as a project is 50 years old?
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    timokhin-aa 20 July 2020 23: 38 New
                    +1
                    I mean your statements divorced from reality.
                    The project, which is now called Poseidon, started in 1984.
                    In the early nineties it was suspended, then, from the middle, it was restarted.
                    The media for it began to be built in 1987.
                    This diesel-electric submarine B-90 "Sarov". Well, about the restructuring of "Sarov" for a new length of the product, in my opinion, is already known to everyone.

                    In addition to the charms from the Military Review.
                    1. Voyager
                      Voyager 20 July 2020 23: 45 New
                      0
                      I mean your statements divorced from reality.

                      I ask a second time - which ones? Do not wriggle with a snake and quote what I said wrong.

                      Instead of specifics, you jump from topic to your head encyclopedia and list the facts that
                      A) I am mostly already known.
                      B) were not requested.
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        timokhin-aa 20 July 2020 23: 58 New
                        +1
                        I ask a second time - which ones?


                        For example, this:

                        You have a chronic tendency to lie. In the USSR, the T-15 was developed, and the Status-6 is already another project


                        Status-6 also began to be developed in the USSR, your opponent did not lie, your statement about his chronic tendency to lie is a lie. Enough?

                        and list the facts that
                        A) I am mostly already known.
                        B) were not requested.


                        How vulnerable you are, however. But this is the Internet, here they can do with you like this, get used to it.
                      2. Voyager
                        Voyager 21 July 2020 00: 39 New
                        -1
                        Your opponent did not lie, your statement about his chronic tendency to lie is a lie. Enough?

                        No, not enough. My "opponent" said about 50-60 years, so he just had in mind a completely different project of the T-15, because the work of the mid-80s, which for some reason you dragged, are not included in this time frame at all. Here you wanted to show off your knowledge, but it turned out unsuccessfully: you hurried to find fault with what I called only T-15 Soviet.

                        Status-6 also began to be developed in the USSR

                        Oh really? Is it true? laughing And according to the results, it will be indicated: "made in Russia, developed in the USSR"? Or is it ALREADY a Russian project?

                        But this is the Internet, here they can do with you like this, get used to it.

                        So - how's that? Why are you flattering yourself? You put yourself in a stupid position, while you were in a hurry to close all the holes in the barrel with a plug. Be humble.
                      3. timokhin-aa
                        timokhin-aa 21 July 2020 00: 49 New
                        +2
                        Your opponent simply confused two moronic projects - T-15 and Status-6. Both were invented by sick people, both come from the USSR, both are decades old.
                        And here you are trying to assert themselves, clinging to each comma.

                        Oh really? Is it true? laughing And according to the results it will be indicated: "made in Russia, developed in the USSR"? Or is it ALREADY a Russian project?


                        As a result, there will be either a quiet note of the project under the carpet, it’s good that the people of us will not be able to remember what they promised him three or four years ago, or a good and high-profile trial. The former is more likely, and at times, but I would like the latter.
                        And yes, you are distorting again, any project started in the USSR that continued or ended in the Russian Federation is Russian.
                        Including Poseidon.
                      4. Voyager
                        Voyager 21 July 2020 01: 05 New
                        -1
                        Your opponent simply confused two moronic projects - T-15 and Status-6.

                        Even so, this is his problem anyway, not mine.
                        But he also mentioned that the project was recognized as unsuccessful (by the commission, obviously), which also applies to the T-15, and at the moment I see no reason to believe that he mixed something up.

                        And yes, you are distorting again, any project started in the USSR that continued or ended in the Russian Federation is Russian.
                        Including Poseidon.

                        What do you mean jerking, and even again? This is a real fact.

                        clinging to every comma.

                        And I'm doing the right thing, maybe next time you will think once again before whether it is worth clinging to my words and accusing me of anything.

                        Perhaps I will not comment on your statements regarding the developers and Status-6 for a number of reasons.

                        All the best and be healthy! No sarcasm
                      5. Senior manager
                        Senior manager 24 July 2020 09: 27 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Voyager
                        All the best and be healthy! No sarcasm

                        Hmmm, guys. I read the comments and smiled. Young people, little knowledge, little experience, confusion with tactics, I still keep quiet about strategy. Just chatter. But not everyone has something to think about.
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 19 July 2020 15: 02 New
    -1
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Poseidon would have at least some sense if there was no question of any PLA carriers, if they were released after the fact
    the exchange of blows that occurred, with the destroyed intelligence system of the enemy, etc.
    1. Each carrier deployed in the ocean is an endless hemorrhoid for the Yankees. And there is no need to flog the nonsense that the Ams have everything under control. Read the memoirs of V.Ya. Dudko "Heroes of Bangor".
    2. After the "exchange of blows" you will not find your ass, not that you "unload" the Poseidons from the pier ... Smart guy, in short pants, damn it!
    Quote: Grazdanin
    Poseidon and the Petrel are stillborn projects that spend money instead of the money they need.
    Before making such a statement, you need to know, at least in the 3rd approximation, the decision-making system for the deployment of strategic weapons systems. I am far from thinking that "traitors to the Motherland" are sitting in the military-technical cooperation under the President and the VTK, eager to harm themselves, their families and other citizens of the Russian Federation ...
    ("If you are so smart, why don't you build?" (C) c / f DMB)
    Quote: Grazdanin
    They can be destroyed at any time, detected and controlled without the slightest problem.
    Yes, two fingers on the asphalt!
    Only first you need to find a needle in a haystack (or better in the Siberian taiga, among fallen needles!)
    Quote: Grazdanin
    The current government for the United States does nothing wrong, all in the suit.
    This "citizen" with dill certainly knows better! (like - "a person from society"!)
    But judging by the way the partners got mad about the amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation, Putin is worse than a bone in his throat! How they tried to fail the vote, how they poured crap, typing more of it into their "crap" mouth ... Already a feast for the eyes!
    By the way, the voices of the Voice, too, would not hurt to shut up ... Already fed up with this cheap stuff about the GeBesh power and the Putin regime!
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 19 July 2020 16: 58 New
      -1
      Well, if you can't find anything in your pants, it doesn't mean that the Yankees don't control our submarines. Krylov said well about our current government, "A helpful person is more dangerous than an enemy." The Constitution is, except for Putin, no one needs, not the West, not the people. He still has his real 30-35% support from the population. It keeps on.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 19 July 2020 17: 25 New
        -4
        Quote: Grazdanin
        this does not mean that our Yankees do not control our submarines.
        And who told you that they control all our boats? And why are you sure that the Northern Fleet or Pacific Fleet is not able to provide covert deployment of 0985.1 and 0985.2 in RBD / ROP? Tell us a terrible military secret: how do you know this?
        Yes, and about Putin - a deep delusion! I'm afraid your disappointment will be even deeper! I believe that soon you and your accomplices will block the oxygen! So for now, you can talk a little more ...
        But! strictly according to instructions from the Washington regional committee:
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 19 July 2020 18: 23 New
          +6
          Quote: BoA KAA
          And why are you sure that the Northern Fleet or Pacific Fleet is not able to provide covert deployment of 0985.1 and 0985.2 in the RBD / ROP?


          Of course not able ...
          Blessed Urya-s like you believe in strange things. I do not believe in such nonsense.
          Let's take Kamchatka. It's closer to me. After a quarter of a century, he served there. There it is necessary to ensure the deployment of 3 SSBNs - 2 pr.955 and Ryazan. Only one nuclear submarine of pr.971 Kuzbaz can provide this, ASW issues can also be solved by two ancient unmodernized Albatrosses, several ancient Il-38 and a pair of Il-38 with Novella, PMO - a pair of BTShch pr.1265 and RTShch pr.10570 - ships naturally not modernized and naturally cannot fight modern mines such as the vile Quickstrike. So after that, I am sure that there will be no covert deployment, during the threatening period the boats will not even be able to leave the base. The fault lies directly with the naval command ...
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 July 2020 21: 44 New
            +2
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            PMO - a pair of BTSC pr.1265 and RTSC pr.10570 - the ships are naturally not modernized and naturally cannot fight modern mines like the infamous Quickstrike

            Interestingly, the old-unkind "Captors" and all kinds of self-transporting rubbish, which in which case You can run on the set 30 miles from the base - still alive?
            1. timokhin-aa
              timokhin-aa 20 July 2020 07: 57 New
              +4
              Alive. Captors are in storage for now.

              But it just won’t reach them.
  • prior
    prior 19 July 2020 09: 23 New
    -3
    "in the new treaty on the reduction of offensive arms"

    What kind of Treaty can we talk about?
    Between the presidents of Russia and America ?!
    One lies through a word, the other has every word a lie.
  • 123456789
    123456789 19 July 2020 09: 24 New
    -2
    Quote: U-58
    That's the contract.
    Russia, too, can (and certainly will) introduce counter-conditions to the Americans. For example, to return the US missile defense system to the state of 2000, to ban the development and deployment of the space component of weapons.
    It is possible to pose a broader question: insist on fulfilling the condition of non-expansion of NATO to the east, promised by Gorbachev and demanding the exclusion from the bloc of countries of [former] popular democracy.
    True, then the negotiations will last 20 years and will not end in anything :-))))

    There must be one condition:
    complete and unconditional surrender of the United States and the dissolution of NATO.
    1. U-58
      U-58 19 July 2020 10: 09 New
      +4
      You write beautifully. But this is a pipe fantasy.
      After all, such a condition can be put forward for us. Are you liars to surrender unconditionally?
      So they are not fools.
      Moreover, the military-political confrontation is an expression of economic confrontation.
      Can a country with the level of Brazilian economy withstand the economic power of the United States (+ Canada with Mexico) with its satellites in Europe, the Far East, and the Pacific region?
      Even if we rip off the people like sticky, introduce katrochki only on bread, herring and cereals, push in medicine, construction, culture, we still will not resist.
      So everything is not simple, but very difficult ..
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 19 July 2020 09: 34 New
    +4
    Judging by the latest developments in the states themselves, there is nothing to negotiate with them at all. If they cannot restore order in their own country, then what can they offer to the external circuit? And given the inertia of political and economic processes, especially on a global scale, and no one will argue that the striped ones have an impact on the whole world, then the fate of any agreements with them can be traced by the expression: either rain or snow , then it will be, then it will not. Well, there is no faith from the word at all.
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 19 July 2020 09: 37 New
    +5
    Wah! I don’t even know what to call it.
    Missile defense will not be able to contain an underwater torpedo? It doesn’t have to.

    But about the ships under construction of the coastal zone, including automatic ones, but about the network of sensors around the United States ... not a word, not a hint ...

    Rare military let slip that in the case of a big kapets, everyone will be hammered: - both anti-aircraft and deep-water nuclei. And just in terms of area ...
  • bar
    bar 19 July 2020 10: 18 New
    +3
    in the new treaty on the reduction of offensive weapons "with a high degree of probability" there will be a clause that will spell out a ban on the aforementioned Russian advanced weapons.

    And will he, a "new contract" then? The striped ones dream of adding the Chinese there. And with such dreams, you can forget about the contract.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 July 2020 15: 15 New
      +7
      Quote: bar
      The striped ones dream of adding the Chinese there. And with such dreams you can forget about the contract.

      I liked the answer of the Chinese Foreign Ministry.
      At a press conference, Comrade Wang Yi said: “We don’t understand what to agree on: either that we should increase nuclear power to the level of the United States, or the United States is going to reduce its nuclear arsenals to our level.”
      Modest, but tasteful! laughing
      This is what the thousand-year history of Chinese diplomacy means! good
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 19 July 2020 10: 25 New
    -3
    It is necessary to limit new weapons, and the old ones cost money that must be worked out. Vicious practice must be stopped
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 19 July 2020 10: 28 New
    -1
    by Mike Pompeo
    Merikatos is now quite furious. And the fat pig Pompe has nothing more to cover, from which it arranges periodic PIGalki. laughing
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 19 July 2020 11: 00 New
    +1
    Zeroes any weapons network of biological laboratories scattered around the world.
  • 123456789
    123456789 19 July 2020 11: 00 New
    -8
    Quote: 123456789
    There must be one condition: the complete and unconditional surrender of the United States and the dissolution of NATO.

    Quote: U-58
    After all, such a condition can be put forward to us.

    With the only difference that we already have Poseidon, and even if they had, it is absolutely useless!
    1. U-58
      U-58 19 July 2020 12: 13 New
      +8
      Do not engage in hats.
      Work on long-range underwater drones began in the United States much earlier than ours. Work progress was slow due to insufficient funding, yes.
      But since we have clearly shown the implementation of the idea, the Americans will not remain indifferent.
      And their response may pose very specific threats to Kaliningrad, the Leningrad naval base and Petrograd itself, Murmansk, nuclear submarine bases, including Kamchatka, Vladivostok, and Nakhodka.
      As well as the entire coastal zone of China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cuba as a whole.
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 19 July 2020 15: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: U-58
        Work on long-range underwater drones began in the United States much earlier than ours.

        Why amy there! Look, the Deutschers, not having nuclear warheads, and then developed a "ultra-long" running "torpedo DM2A4ER for 140 km of travel, with a telescopic antenna of the GPS positioning data receiver! And nothing, they do not complex about stealth ... Although the speed is 2-4 times less than the Sea King, not to mention the depth of immersion and the power of the BZO!
        And here self-taught geniuses (more precisely, self-taught) themselves are "tormented" and others are embarrassed, obscene!) Have their own "unquestionable and only correct" opinion ... Although, on several occasions, authorities in the field of G / A have spoken out the level of the LEXIN brothers!
      2. Motorist
        Motorist 19 July 2020 17: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: U-58
        And their response may pose very specific threats to ... the Leningrad Navy and Petrograd itself

        Through the gates of the dam and along the Sea Channel, you must go to the convoy and with the pilot (in winter - and with an icebreaker). And before that - several times reported to border guards. laughing
        1. U-58
          U-58 19 July 2020 17: 26 New
          -1
          Why complicate it?
          Undermining in the Kronstadt region, all the damaging factors plus the tsunami ...
          Undermining in the center of the Black Sea at a depth of 500-1000 m. The allocation of millions of cubic meters of hydrogen sulfide, its local cries and fire .. Even scary to think ..
  • Dmitry Makarov
    Dmitry Makarov 19 July 2020 11: 06 New
    -5
    80% of the industry and population of the Earth (with the exception of Russia) is located in a narrow coastal strip about 500 km wide. That is why the combat range of the Fleets is designed for this depth, it is no longer required.
    And it is precisely "Poseidon" that solves this problem with a vengeance - a radioactive wave and a water-dispersive suspension from the detonation of a warhead in a cobalt shell, will turn these territories into Lifeless deserts for many centuries.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 19 July 2020 19: 42 New
      -1
      And it is precisely "Poseidon" that solves this problem with interest.

      Now it doesn't solve anything. When 70 of these Poseidons are put into service, then you can say something, but for now all this is idle talk.
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 19 July 2020 20: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Dmitry Makarov
      80% of the industry and population of the Earth (with the exception of Russia) is located in a narrow coastal strip about 500 km wide. That is why the combat range of the Fleets is designed for this depth, it is no longer required.
      And it is precisely "Poseidon" that solves this problem with a vengeance - a radioactive wave and a water-dispersive suspension from the detonation of a warhead in a cobalt shell, will turn these territories into Lifeless deserts for many centuries.

      Ie. You do not know the map of sea currents and where the rain masses form?
      Our country, after the application of the cobalt shell in Poseidon, will die out in 2 weeks after the Americans.
      Even if they do not strike with nuclear weapons.
      I'll just repeat myself.
      Learn a geography textbook for grades 5-6.
      About currents and rain clouds.
      1. U-58
        U-58 21 July 2020 06: 41 New
        +1
        You're right . That is, Poeidon is another Did Hand. We won't have to enjoy the result of the retaliatory strike by the Poseidons ..
  • rocket757
    rocket757 19 July 2020 11: 14 New
    +4
    Let's "shoot cartoons", many and different! Let them rack their brains on what else to include in the ban lists!
    And when the lists are made up, we’ll release the next series of “cartoons”!
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 July 2020 11: 21 New
    +5
    The appearance of a Poseidon in Russia, as it is fashionable to say today, “nullifies” the effectiveness of the American missile defense system. Poseidon submersibles are the same asymmetrical response that makes all of Washington's missile defense system simply pointless.

    How long can you post this nonsense? The American missile defense system, in its current state, cannot intercept a single MIRVed ballistic missile. That is, its effectiveness is near-zero, and special breakthrough means are not yet required
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 19 July 2020 11: 46 New
    +6
    Will not reset .... there are a lot of land targets, there is a naval missile defense. And missile defense and so does not protect against massive launches. Unlike cr, it cannot be used without YaBCh.
  • rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 19 July 2020 13: 04 New
    -1
    It's time to finish negotiating with Pindos altogether, they only understand strength
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 19 July 2020 20: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: rotkiv04
      It's time to finish negotiating with Pindos altogether, they only understand strength

      I repeat.
      Punish them so that they no longer behave so badly ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Old26
    Old26 19 July 2020 14: 05 New
    +4
    But Russia has already been burned several times and understands that for overseas partners any agreement is nothing more than a piece of paper that can be torn up at any time and sent to the trash can.

    Stupid author writes with a smart look. NO ONE from strategic treaties the American side was not torn apart. And the author seems to have all one. Torn or left according to the rules of the contract, because they considered it NOT FAVORABLE for themselves at that time - for him this is a violation.
    Then a question to the author: Why then are there such articles in every agreement (on withdrawal from it) ???

    Quote: Mitroha
    If only to add to the agreement that in the event of a violation or unilateral withdrawal, all accessible military facilities in the United States will be destroyed without warning of the perpetrator of the violation

    Don't think your opponent is stupid. Would you yourself sign an agreement in which such an article would be? The normal ones who conclude a contract before such “frills” do not fall, as they understand that they themselves may find themselves in a position that violates the contract. And what, then something would be destroyed by an automatic machine on the territory of the same USSR ??? Nonsense ...

    Quote: Maki Maki
    Even if you give in in the Gorby style, you will still be deceived. Passed already.

    That's interesting, but what did they deceive ???

    Quote: U-58
    That's the contract.
    Russia, too, can (and certainly will) introduce counter-conditions to the Americans. For example, to return the US missile defense system to the state of 2000, to ban the development and deployment of the space component of weapons.

    This option will not work. After all, we are talking primarily about a treaty on the reduction of strategic nuclear weapons, and not about an ABM treaty. Two different contracts. And to introduce provisions from another into one contract - then one must consider his counterparts "stupid" ...

    A ban on the space component can be spelled out if we are talking about strike weapons in space. If it’s about missile defense, it won’t work ...

    Quote: U-58
    It is possible to pose a broader question: insist on fulfilling the condition of non-expansion of NATO to the east, promised by Gorbachev and demanding the exclusion from the bloc of countries of [former] popular democracy.
    True, then the negotiations will last 20 years and will not end in anything :-))))

    It is possible to raise the question as some commentators on V.O. For all nuclear powers to participate in the treaty. Then the conclusion of such an agreement will be postponed for 100-150 years, because the "common denominator" is unlikely to come

    Quote: 30 vis
    Obviously, this is the only way to ask the question. a full-fledged agreement, not blah blah Mikhal Sergeich Gorbachev ..

    Well, the INF Treaty cannot be called inferior either. The agreement lasted almost 32 years. And he no longer met the realities of the world, because a large number of countries with RSDs appeared. And the INF Treaty, though not entirely equal in rights, was nevertheless full ... And it is thanks to the limitations of this treaty that we now have complexes. who do not have in the west ...

    Quote: abrakadabre
    Moreover, to carry out such items, set emergency dates bordering on emergency evacuation of personnel from the occupied territory on alarm. With the physical destruction of all weapons and infrastructure by sappers. And only so. No "we will slowly withdraw and take out" or "utilize / demilitarize / store according to the schedule".
    To motivate the fact that the deadlines have long passed within the framework of agreements with the USSR.

    Do you think THREE YEARS to fulfill a contract is akin to evacuation terms? Sometimes you shouldn't attribute your own foolishness to the enemy. We have always liked to do everything ahead of schedule ("five years in four years"). We did exactly the same with the destruction of chemical weapons. According to the Wyoming Memorandum, the deadline was extended to 2022-2023, but we went to the "Stakhanov shift" and destroyed a year earlier than the original deadlines. But the one who needs to receive both titles and awards

    It's the same with sappers. Each side chose ways to eliminate weapons. Nobody forced to explode. However, they themselves agreed with this method of destruction, why now blame the enemy. He calmly burned fuel when the rockets were stationary fixed. But then, after all, you will not make a mistake and will not declare such a step as peace-loving ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 July 2020 21: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: Old26
      It is possible to raise the question as some commentators on V.O. For all nuclear powers to participate in the treaty. Then the conclusion of such an agreement will be postponed for 100-150 years, because the "common denominator" is unlikely to come

      It will be postponed forever. Because instead of signing, you get Zeno's aporia about Achilles and the turtle: as soon as all the existing nuclear powers agreed ... and then bam - and a new one appears. On a cola bast - start over. smile
  • Old26
    Old26 19 July 2020 14: 05 New
    +7
    Quote: Simon
    The Americans, even in joy, sent hydraulic powerful scissors free of charge to cut our missiles.

    The Fairy Tales of the Vienna Woods began. Can you find out which missiles were destroyed with such scissors ??? Or as usual: "I heard a ringing, but I don't know where it is" ??

    Quote: Simon
    In addition, there was an agreement, during the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, so that the countries that were in the Warsaw Pact would not be included in NATO.

    There was no agreement. There were blah blah Gorbachev and no more. And this in international affairs "does not channel." No paper? Goodbye ... They have not signed any NATO non-expansion agreements with us ...

    Quote: Voyager
    Nice joke, thank you

    However, Alexander (Free Wind) is right. The same Federal Republic was ready for much. At a minimum, build infrastructure for the withdrawn troops on the territory of the USSR. And as a result, they brought the divisions into an open field

    Quote: abrakadabre
    Russia, too, can (and certainly will) introduce counter-conditions to the Americans. For example, to return the US missile defense system to the state of 2000, to ban the development and deployment of the space component of weapons.
    In this case, it should demand not to withdraw the materiel into the United States, but to undermine it on the spot under the supervision of our side. And even with the participation of the demolition of the opposite, that is, our side. Moreover, to set the deadline for undermining in 24 hours from the date of entry into force of the new agreements.

    Could you come up with something stupider? put yourself in the shoes of one of the participants and think about whether you will agree to such conditions. Nobody has ever given 24 hours for implementation (only advanced ones like you). As no one has ever allowed the opposite side to carry out such measures (would you yourself give American sappers to blow up something of ours on our territory ??)
    The materiel was destroyed most often on the territory of the country that produced this product. And not where they were at one time or another

    Quote: Poetiszaugla
    Considering that all their naval bases and defense enterprises are located on the coasts, then yes, this is a weighty club.

    Are our naval bases located inside the continent? US defense enterprises are not only the coast (as well as in Russia), but also in the depths of the territory ...

    Quote: Free Wind
    It would be interesting to see a naval base somewhere in the rocky mountains of America, aircraft carriers on the plains, not on the ocean.

    good

    Quote: Grazdanin
    And here I do not understand the missile defense, isn't it PLO Engaged in submarines? Has the US PLO ceased to exist? How will this torpedo affect US defenses? How hundreds of thousands of civilians will be killed, it is clear how they will not approach the base. https://topwar.ru/173094-vms-ssha-zakazali-razrabotku-bezjekipazhnogo-korablja-srednego-klassa-musv.html#comment-id-10594736 These ships will solve all issues with PLO.
    They just took another backlog of the USSR and implemented it.

    Comrade! Ignore the headlines. They are sometimes from the series: "At least stand, at least fall." Even the current title is stupidity, because it is difficult to nullify something that, in principle, no missile defense system (showiness) has. In the 70s, the then political and military leaders of both countries realized this ...

    Quote: U-58
    With the only difference that we already have Poseidon

    There is???? Is there really? And that, have passed the sea trials in full? There is - this is when it is in service, and not when it is unknown in what state it is ...

    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    The American missile defense system, in its current state, cannot intercept a single MIRVed ballistic missile. That is, its effectiveness is near-zero, and special breakthrough means are not yet required

    You are wrong, Andrey. She (missile defense) is capable of intercepting one or two Voevoda. The same is with us. With 100 interceptor missiles around Moscow, we were able to intercept 16 twin targets of EMNIP ...
    Any missile defense system is now incapable of repelling a massive strike. Only a few ...
  • 123456789
    123456789 19 July 2020 14: 26 New
    -3
    Quote: U-58
    Do not engage in hats.


    Katz offers to give up!
    These are the katsy who surrendered to the USSR and the World Socialist System! And Russia will be surrendered!
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 19 July 2020 15: 20 New
    -1
    Quote: BoA KAA
    And there is no need to flog the nonsense that the Ams have everything under control. Read the memoirs of V.Ya. Dudko "Heroes of Bangor".

    This is unfortunately nothing more than a version of Dudko.

    2. After the "exchange of blows" you will not find your ass, not that you "unload" the Poseidons from the pier ... Smart guy, in short pants, damn it!

    "Nerd," I’m not here offering complete idiocy in the form of giganticpedi shooting in the United States.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Old26
    Old26 19 July 2020 16: 16 New
    +4
    Quote: 123456789
    Quote: U-58
    Do not engage in hats.


    Katz offers to give up!
    These are the katsy who surrendered to the USSR and the World Socialist System! And Russia will be surrendered!

    And besides the plot from the film, there is something to say. Your own, not cinematic? ... But U-58 is right. Stop making hats. Poseidon won't solve anything. Billions of money - but the effect is only for the media
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 19 July 2020 16: 49 New
    -1
    As for me - so there are all kinds of "Poseidons" - REALLY WASTE taxpayer money of the Russian Federation crying

    It’s much easier to create 10-20-30 “vigorous loaves” with a capacity of 100 megatons, to drop them in advance in the given coordinates - and let them wait in the wings ... You can dump it stupidly using dry cargo ships, which are now plowed open wassat Bolshoi Theater drinks Quietly, peacefully and secretly - throw into the depths of the sea ... laughing
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 19 July 2020 21: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: Crown without virus
      It’s much easier to create 10-20-30 “vigorous loaves” with a capacity of 100 megatons, to drop them in advance in the given coordinates - and let them wait in the wings ... You can dump it stupidly using dry cargo vessels, which are now plowed through the "expanses of the Bolshoi Theater" Quiet , peacefully and secretly - dump into the depths of the sea ...


      It doesn’t work like that .... From a word in general ....
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 19 July 2020 17: 10 New
    -6
    Quote: Grazdanin
    Nobody needs this constitution except Putin, not the West, not the people.

    I, as part of the Russian people, NEED! And to all those next to me, too.
    But about the WEST - yes, it is not needed. For all 2 passports from power will be driven by a fucking broom! She secured social guarantees. Now, wiseacres (HSE) from the government will not be able to tell me: “Sorry, you won’t have a pension indexation. We in the State Duma have made a different budget, you don’t smell like it ...” And the population will grow and the economy will rise. And everything will be fine with us. Not immediately, but with time - for sure!
    And you, you just have to grind your teeth and cherish the LGBT dream ...
    Therefore:
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 19 July 2020 18: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: BoA KAA
      Now the clever people (HSE fosterlings) from the government will not be able to tell me: - “Sorry, you will not be indexing your pension.


      Why can't they! Do you think this year they will remember the notorious military pension reduction rate? How many years have they forgotten about the promise to tighten it every year?
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 19 July 2020 21: 32 New
        0
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Quote: BoA KAA
        Now the clever people (HSE fosterlings) from the government will not be able to tell me: - “Sorry, you will not be indexing your pension.


        Why can't they! Do you think this year they will remember the notorious military pension reduction rate? How many years have they forgotten about the promise to tighten it every year?

        Inflation must be precisely compensated.
        As for the law on pension provision for military personnel, in principle, they should also be remembered.
        I think so.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 19 July 2020 21: 39 New
          +1
          Yes, they promised to compensate for inflation by the end of the year by 3%. From October 1 announced. This is done.
          About the reducing coefficient - silence .....
  • Old26
    Old26 19 July 2020 19: 54 New
    +5
    Quote: krot
    Such a weapon is real only against the Anglo-Saxons. Against us it is useless from the word at all!

    You can find out why only against the Anglo-Saxons? Do we have that the main naval bases will not be subject to such a (similar) strike?

    Quote: volodimer
    If only to add in the agreement that in case of violation or unilateral withdrawal, all accessible military facilities on the territory of the United States will be destroyed without warning of the perpetrator of the violation of feel

    It may be simpler: withdrawal from the contract is regarded as an act of aggression or as an act of "declaration of war", after which the party subjected to this act has the right, without notifying the initiator of these actions, to use any means to ensure its own security, including the immediate destruction of the aggressor ...

    Well, now imagine that Russia has signed such an agreement with this wording. And after 15 years, it suddenly becomes clear that if we do not withdraw from this agreement, it will be very difficult for us to maintain parity based on these restrictions. We are withdrawing from the treaty and the United States is using any means against us to ensure its own security. How do you like this option ??? The agreement, like the medal, has two sides. But for some reason we forget for ourselves, proposing such heresy ...

    Quote: Serg4545
    I guess, yes. But I want to note that the developers of Poseidon officially stated:
    That Poseidon is not so much a super-large torpedo as a mini-submarine. And, optionally, Poseidon can carry (and launch) conventional torpedoes and cruise missiles (which are launched from a torpedo tube).

    Look at at least the lineup that is in the public domain. What cruise missiles and torpedoes. Where are you going to place them with dimensions of about 20 meters long and about 2 meters in diameter ???

    Quote: Crown without virus
    As for me - so there are all kinds of "Poseidons" - REALLY WASTE taxpayer money of the Russian Federation crying

    It’s much easier to create 10-20-30 “vigorous loaves” with a capacity of 100 megatons, to drop them in advance in the given coordinates - and let them wait in the wings ... You can dump it stupidly using dry cargo ships, which are now plowed open wassat Bolshoi Theater drinks Quietly, peacefully and secretly - throw into the depths of the sea ... laughing

    Not an option. Any nuclear weapon must undergo routine maintenance within a certain time frame. If you drop a "nuclear loaf" of 100 mt in shallow water, there will be no effect. Dump them at depth, but how can they be serviced in 2-3 years, for example? After all, a 100 megaton charge is not a 200-300 kg bomb. How will you lift and serve ...?
  • tarackanovaleksei
    tarackanovaleksei 19 July 2020 20: 27 New
    -2
    No one will ever give up anything more. The time for concessions is over.
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 19 July 2020 21: 22 New
    +3
    "The appearance of Poseidon in Russia" nullifies "the effectiveness of the American missile defense system" - the Yankees do not have an effective missile defense system. And in the coming decades will not be. The intestine is thin. This is a bluff. And we, putting a bunch of dough in Poseidon and Petrel, instead of building ships and submarines that are so necessary for the fleet, were led into this bluff.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 19 July 2020 21: 42 New
      +3
      I feel obligated to support your opinion ...
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 19 July 2020 21: 48 New
    -2
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Quote: Crown without virus
    It’s much easier to create 10-20-30 “vigorous loaves” with a capacity of 100 megatons, to drop them in advance in the given coordinates - and let them wait in the wings ... You can dump it stupidly using dry cargo vessels, which are now plowed through the "expanses of the Bolshoi Theater" Quiet , peacefully and secretly - dump into the depths of the sea ...


    It doesn’t work like that .... From a word in general ....

    Even Academician Sakharov proposed this in due time - and not in the form of posts on the forum, but in the form of a Memorandum to the Central Committee of the CPSU with all the calculations !!! drinks
  • Old26
    Old26 20 July 2020 00: 16 New
    +3
    Quote: Alexey RA
    It will be postponed forever. Because instead of signing, you get Zeno's aporia about Achilles and the turtle: as soon as all the existing nuclear powers agreed ... and then bam - and a new one appears. On a cola wet - start over.

    May be so. There are a lot of thresholds

    Quote: Crown without virus
    Even Academician Sakharov proposed this in due time - and not in the form of posts on the forum, but in the form of a Memorandum to the Central Committee of the CPSU with all the calculations !!!

    Did he offer to "sink" thermonuclear weapons several years before the start of the conflict? Can I have a link?
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 20 July 2020 00: 43 New
    +1
    Judging by the "cartoons" of MO, this is a very large torpedo into a red-yellow checker with an atomic reactor for movement under water with a depth of 1 kilometer. This is our assumption that this thing is the embodiment of Sakharov’s thoughts. The Defense Ministry is silent for what it is. I consider this thing to study the life of gray whales and sperm whales. The latter, just at a depth of 1 km, underwater cables gnawed from hunger. The time may come, and the Russian Ministry of Defense will refute my assumption. Let the US think for what we need .
    1. CBR600
      CBR600 20 July 2020 14: 03 New
      +2
      to study the life of gray whales and sperm whales

      I'm for sperm whales =) plus
  • Lebed
    Lebed 20 July 2020 10: 12 New
    12
    The eternal confrontation between Shield and Sword
  • CBR600
    CBR600 20 July 2020 13: 59 New
    0
    It is not clear what to comment on, the presence / absence of Poseidons with petrels or the withdrawal of amers from the treaty? Ahhh ... New Treaty!
    So there are no conditions for him. No so-called tensions on this issue. The coronavirus and the crisis around the world. And we have water ... The new Constitution, more precisely. 47 rub DT. Hmmm .. 47 rubles per liter. 25 gas. AND GROSS abbreviations! I do not believe in what is happening in our country. I learned a lot for myself.
    Foreigners (not you and me here) have clearly calculated the capabilities of our enterprises for the large-scale production of military equipment. At what parity is a new agreement possible? What, in general? Amers, their State Department are ruled and the current policy is aimed at developing their industry. Those. by any means - arms race.
    __ So what can our country oppose to the US industry? (opposed in war)
  • GERIX_2
    GERIX_2 7 August 2020 11: 44 New
    0
    laughing Well, yes, dreaming is not harmful) Of course, our nuclear weapons are holding them back, that's all.
    But it is a sin for them to complain. IPhones, burgers, Coca-Cola, toys, the auto industry, electronics, and a lot of other goods are successfully sold in the world, incl. in Russia. Many people in Russia have something American, but there is almost none of ours in America) But there are also China, Korea, Japan, etc. who takes money out of our country.
    1. Victor Ar
      Victor Ar 11 August 2020 08: 36 New
      0
      Russia is an open country. Much freer than the same America, where they even fear our media and their influence on the agenda. It's easy to trade with us. We are not afraid of imports. And they spoil the trade with their political ambitions, using sanctions and embargoes. We see how the United States is afraid of our "Nord Stream 2" and uses patronage to prevent Russia from advancing its expansion of energy resources to the West. This indicates the weakness of the "world hegemon"
  • Victor Ar
    Victor Ar 11 August 2020 08: 31 New
    0
    America can eliminate some types of weapons there. Why shouldn't they demonstrate a complete rejection of missile defense?
    We react to their initiatives and react dynamically. Moreover, they were warned about the consequences of their actions.