Military Review

Mage and Warlock Herbert Aurillac

145
Mage and Warlock Herbert Aurillac

The Latin inscription under the medieval miniature reads: "Pray and Work"


Probably all of you have read M. Bulgakov's novel The Master and Margarita and remember the fateful meeting of Berlioz and Homeless with the “foreign professor” at Patriarch's Ponds. And, perhaps, they paid attention to how Woland explains his appearance in Moscow.

- And what is your specialty? Asked Berlioz.
- I am a specialist in black magic ... Here in the state library were found the original manuscripts of the warlock Herbert Avrilak, tenth century. So, it is required that I disassemble them. I am the only specialist in the world.
- Ah! Are you a historian? Berlioz asked with great relief and respect.



Meeting at the Patriarch's, illustration by A. Nabokov

Where did the manuscripts of some medieval magician suddenly appear in Lenin? And why the very educated and erudite Berlioz, who had already taken the "professor" for a madman, upon hearing the name of Herbert Avrilak, immediately calmed down and believed in the stranger's version?

I must say that in this novel by Bulgakov there are quite a few references to other works or to real historical events - what is now often called "Easter eggs". For example, I really like the hidden quote from the work of Michael Psellus about "the darkness that came from the sea."

M. Bulgakov:

"The darkness that came from the Mediterranean covered the city hated by the procurator."

M. Psell:

"A cloud that suddenly rose from the sea covered the royal city with darkness."

(The Byzantine historian uses this phrase in the story of a terrible storm that destroyed the Russian-Varangian fleet of Vladimir Novgorodsky, the son of Yaroslav the Wise, and Ingvar the Traveler, the cousin of Yaroslav's wife Ingigerd).

The mysterious warlock Herbert Avrilak, who died 15 years before the birth of Mikhail Psellus, of course, also appeared in Bulgakov's novel for a reason.

Meet the hero



Herbert is the real name of this man, who was born in the French city of Aurillac (previously the name was pronounced as Avralac) around 946, so everything is correct here. Since for a long time he lived and worked in Reims, at first as a scholastic (teacher) of the school of the monastery of St. Remigius, and then actually fulfilled the duties of an archbishop, although he was not recognized as such by the Vatican, he is sometimes also called Reims. But now he is much better known as Pope Sylvester II (139th in a row).


Silvester II, portrait of the XVI-XVII centuries.

This pontiff was a contemporary of Vladimir Svyatoslavich, the Polish king Boleslav the Brave (whose daughter the "accursed" Svyatopolk was married to) and the Hungarian king Stephen I (this pope blessed him to the throne). He also gave permission to organize the first Polish archbishop's diocese. And also, it means that he managed to engage in magic and witchcraft, although this hobby seems very strange for a person who has become the highest hierarch of the Catholic Church.

However, the papal throne was also occupied by not such characters. Sylvester II, even in a nightmare, probably could not have dreamed of the "exploits" of John XII, who at feasts (more like orgies) repeatedly raised the bowls to the health of the devil and the pagan gods. And contemporaries did not call him the pharmacist of Satan, as Alexander VI (Borgia). No, Herbert Avrilak was a very peaceful, intelligent and quiet warlock and quite a decent and relatively harmless Pope. He did not kill his predecessors, like Sergius III, did not dig up their corpses and did not judge posthumously, like Stephen VI. And even such a respectable business with a long tradition as the sale of church posts, he disdained to engage. And such a sweet entertainment of many popes and cardinals, as a konkubinat (in Roman law - cohabitation without marriage), also did not favor. Well, except that he intrigued for his own pleasure. Acting as the academic secretary of Bishop Adalberon of Rheims during the congress of spiritual and secular lords of France, he took part in the election of the Duke of Ile-de-France, Hugo Capet, as king - this is how the Capetian dynasty was founded, which ruled from 987 to 1328.

Taking offense at Pope John XV, who refused to approve him as Archbishop of Reims, he spoke about the Vatican in such a way that his letters were then gladly quoted by Protestants - in 1567 and 1600. But who of the politicians of this scale (both modern and past years) is not unprincipled and intriguing?

So, Sylvester II was a rather active Pope, and managed a lot in the 4 years of his pontificate. But, here's the trouble, he turned out to be very fond of magic and witchcraft. So much so that they only remember this now. Let's try to figure out where the venerable pontiff suddenly got such a dubious reputation and whether his contemporaries had reason to accuse him of practicing magic, cohabitation with a succubus and ties with the devil himself.

The beginning of a spiritual career


Herbert was born in 946 into a poor and noble family. In Europe of the 963th century, the only chance to somehow advance for people like him was the career of a clergyman, and therefore in 967 the young man entered the Benedictine monastery of St. Herald. Here he immediately drew attention to himself with his abilities and aptitude for the exact sciences. And then Herbert was lucky for the first time. The abbot of this monastery, who turned out to be a person who was not indifferent and progressive, in XNUMX recommended the young man as a secretary to the Count of Barcelona Borrell II who happened to be in those places. So Herbert got to Spain.

However, such a country as Spain did not yet exist at that time. Almost the entire Iberian Peninsula was occupied by the Cordoba Caliphate, only in the north there were small Christian kingdoms, and the Reconquista was still far away.


The powerful Cordoba Caliphate exerted a great influence on neighboring Christian states, including in the field of education and culture. The libraries of Arab cities have preserved the works of ancient authors, many of which will be rediscovered by Europeans only in the Renaissance. The library of Cordoba is said to have held up to half a million books, while the best European libraries boasted only a thousand.

Either way, Herbert was very lucky. But it was to this period that the first "warlock" legend "refers to his connection with a succubus named Meridiana, from which he received" inhuman "knowledge, and then - wealth and power.


Succubus. XNUMXth century wood sculpture, Cambridge

In the name of this succubus, a geometric term is clearly heard - indeed, someone heard the ringing, but did not understand where it came from. By the way, some of Herbert's illiterate interlocutors also considered the octahedron and rhombus to be the names of demons.

It is often difficult for people in general to believe that a person can achieve success without a noble birth, wealth, or influential patrons: it is easier to explain other people's achievements by witchcraft or even a deal with the devil.

But Herbert did not cohabit with the beautiful Meridiana, but studied in Catalonia - in Vic. And then he managed to visit Cordoba. He may have also visited Seville and Toledo. And this study with the Moors was the reason for the appearance of the second legend - that Herbert stole a book of spells from the palace of the Caliph al-Hakkam II himself: he found in it a formula that makes a person invisible, read it with the necessary intonations - and, as they say, he was.

There is another version of this legend, according to which the daughter of his magician teacher, who was in love with him, helped Herbert to steal the book.

A fateful visit to Rome


In 969, Herbert ended up in Rome with the Barcelona Count Borrell. Here he met Pope John XIII. The scholarly young man made such a good impression on the Pope that he recommended him as the educator of his son to Emperor Otto I himself.


Lucas Cranach the Elder. Otto I the Great, portrait in the Chronicle of the Saxons and the Thuringians

In this position, Herbert was for three years, after which in 972 he went to Reims, where he taught at the monastery school, built a hydraulic organ and fought for the place of archbishop.

The future Emperor Otto II liked the teacher very much, which is not surprising, because Herbert was a supporter of the assertion of the priority of imperial power over spiritual. On coming to power in 973, Otto II remembered the teacher by appointing the abbot of the monastery in Babbio. But Herbert found it bored there, and he chose to return to Reims. Then he supported the former student in the war against his compatriot - the French king Lothair (in 978).

Otto II, by the way, headed the jury of judges during the famous debate "on the classification of sciences" in Ravenna, in which his former teacher converged with the German dialectician Otrich. This dispute lasted a day and ended in a draw due to the complete exhaustion of the jury members, who, by their willful decision, stopped this dispute and literally crawled out of the hall.


Otto II with the personification of the subject lands. Miniature, circa 985 Chantilly, Kendé Museum

Otto II died in 983 at the age of 28, presumably from malaria. The heir to the throne, the son of the Byzantine princess Theophano, was only three years old at that time and his name was also Otto (only the Third: I'm already tired of writing this name - people have no fantasy). This emperor, who was nicknamed the Miracle of the World by the court flatterers, also had an excellent relationship with Herbert.


Romans, Gauls (Lorraine), Germans and Slavs (Poles who converted to Christianity) bring gifts to Emperor Otto III, miniature, Bayerische Staatsbibliothek, Munich

In Reims, as we remember, our hero failed to become an archbishop, but thanks to the efforts of Otto III, he was appointed archbishop of Ravenna. This was not too difficult to achieve: Pope Gregory V was the emperor's first cousin.

A year later, this pontiff died, and Herbert was elected the new head of the Catholic Church. He became the first Frenchman to occupy the throne of Saint Peter.


Statue of Pope Sylvester II in the French prefecture of Aurillac


Portrait of Pope Sylvester II on a French stamp

Interestingly, the name chosen by Herbert upon accession to the throne: Sylvester. He took it in honor of the pope, who was an adviser to Constantine the Great. The hint was quite transparent, and the interested persons understood it perfectly.


Meister der Reichenauer Schule. Emperor Otto III and Pope Sylvester II, Munich, Bayerische Staatsbibliothek


Pope Sylvester II

In the future, Otto III and Sylvester II acted as allies. In 1001, they had to flee together from rebellious Rome. Meanwhile, the days of both were already running out. The young emperor died in 1002 (he was 22 at the time) during a campaign against Rome, Pope Sylvester II briefly survived him, dying in 1003. But he still returned to the Eternal City and was buried in the Lateran Cathedral (St. John Lateran).


Cathedral of Saint John Lateran

The inscription on his gravestone reads: "Here lie the mortal remains of Sylvester, who will rise at the sound of the coming of the Lord."


Pope Sylvester II cenotaph

Later, a legend appeared that periodically a noise was heard from this tomb, warning of the imminent death of the Pope.

Mage and warlock


So, the rootless and poor Herbert of Aurillac was familiar with the three emperors of the Holy Roman Empire, with the support of the last of them he became an archbishop, and then was elected pope - and, according to some, all this happened not without the help of the Devil. And the successes in science (pretty exaggerated and colored with rumor) increased suspicion. So far, these were only rumors circulating among illiterate and superstitious commoners. But soon even the hierarchs of the Catholic Church started talking about it. And this is not surprising, because Pope Sylvester II, as we remember, was opposed to the sale of church posts and even considered the imperial power above spiritual, and therefore he had many opponents and ill-wishers in the highest church circles.

Cardinal Bennon was the first to officially blame the deal with Satan for the already deceased (in 1003) Pope Sylvester II. This accusation fell on fertile ground, and in the future the stories about the miracles performed by the warlock on the papal throne only multiplied and acquired the most bizarre forms.


Silvester II and the devil

The enemies of Sylvester II even spread rumors that his ancestor was Simon the Magus - the same one who wanted to buy from the apostles Philip, John and Peter "power over the Holy Spirit" and the ability to work miracles in his name. And who died in Rome, having fallen from the tower, during the competition with the apostles Peter and Paul - because Peter took away the power from the demons who held the magician (Nero acted as the arbiter in this magical duel, on whose order these apostles were later executed).


Saints Peter and Paul before Nero during a dispute with Simon the Magus, mosaic. Palatine Chapel, Palermo, Sicily

On behalf of this character of the New Testament "Acts of the Apostles", as well as the apocryphal "Acts of Peter" and "Syntagma" the term "simony" originates, but Pope Sylvester, as we remember, was a principled opponent of the trade in church offices and miraculous relics.

It was also said that the black dog that accompanied Herbert everywhere was the devil himself, with whom he made an agreement. This legend undoubtedly influenced the later legends about Faust and Goethe's Mephistopheles appears to Faust in the guise of a black poodle.

However, there is a version of the legend in which Herbert did not conclude an agreement with the devil, but won the papal tiara in the bones from him. In this case, he is already acting in the role of a character who has shamed the enemy of the human race and made him serve himself. The official church, of course, did not even encourage such connections with the devil, but among the people such a victory over an unclean spirit was perceived unambiguously positively. Let us recall the numerous legends about how Satan managed to deceive the builders of cathedrals (for example, Cologne) and bridges (Rakotzbrücke in Saxony or associated with the name of Suvorov "Devil" in Switzerland).


Rakotzbrücke bridge, Kromlau park, Saksoniia

By the way, our hero was not the only Roman pontiff who had his own demon: Pope Boniface VIII also had a devil in his service. We know about this from the words of the French king Philip the Fair, who made an official statement at the Louvre meeting in 1303.

But what miracles did the warlock Herbert of Aurillac, who became pope, work?

Let's start with a simple one: everyone was simply amazed at his ability to perform mathematical calculations in the "mind" - it is simply impossible to do this using the then widespread Roman numerals. However, Herbert used Arabic numerals (in fact, the Arabs themselves borrowed them from the Indians, so it would be more correct to call them Indian). Herbert did not keep secret the method of number, multiplication and division, new for Europe, with the help of Arabic numerals: he taught it while working at the school of the monastery of St. Remigius in Reims and later tried to popularize it in every possible way. But how many students did he have then? It took a long time until the new method of calculation became common and familiar. Europe finally abandoned Roman numerals only in the Renaissance.

Another magical specialty of Herbert was advising on territorial disputes: in this regard, the ability to calculate the areas of geometric figures was very valuable.

The unprecedented hydraulic organ built by Herbert in Reims also aroused great surprise among his contemporaries. He was also credited with creating the world's first mechanical tower clock, which he allegedly presented to Magdeburg. This clock seemed to "noted all the movements of light, and the time when the stars rise and set." However, serious researchers do not believe very much in these watches: Herbert should have been ahead of his time when creating them. Only in the 1335th century, a tower clock without a dial appeared, which announced the beginning of a new hour with the sound of a bell. And the first reliably known mechanical tower clock with hands was created only in XNUMX - in Milan. And historians do not at all believe in the legend that in the XNUMXth century the Dutchman Bomelius brought with him to Moscow a watch made by Herbert of Aurillac.

Elisey Bomelia clock


Eliseus Bomelius was the son of a Dutch priest, but was born in Westphalia (1530). Taking care of the sick son of a noble English family, Bertie, he later ended up in England with her. Studied as a physician at the University of Cambridge, but did not graduate. For providing medical assistance without a diploma and license, as well as on charges of practicing black magic, he was later arrested. However, by that time, Bomelius already had some connections in high society, and he managed to get free. And then the Russian embassy in London turned out to be, and its head Andrei Lapin, who was entrusted with finding a good doctor for Ivan the Terrible, could not pass by such a valuable frame - the fellow looked. Bomelius, too, was not able to stay in London, so they agreed rather quickly. In Moscow, Elisey Bomeliy (as they began to call him here) gained great influence. The Dutchman managed to add to the king's studies of astrology and together they often watched the starry sky at night. It was rumored that the royal physician and astrologer also had one more specialty: allegedly, by order of Ivan the Terrible, he made poisons that did not kill a person immediately, but after a certain time: liquids and powders for adding to drink or food and candles with a poisoned wick. That is why in Moscow Bomeliy received the nicknames "fierce sorcerer" and "evil heretic". However, it should be noted that Ivan the Terrible had no reason to hide his anger and disgrace, and secret murders of his enemies were not typical for him. On the contrary, in his massacres and executions, he strove for publicity and theatricality, sometimes bordering on blasphemy. Therefore, he hardly needed the services of a qualified poisoner. He valued the Dutchman precisely as a doctor and fortuneteller. Even enemies did not deny Bomelius's medicinal talents, and some stories that have come down to our time depict the Dutchman, albeit a "filthy", but almost a miracle worker. And even in Rimsky-Korsakov's opera "The Tsar's Bride" there is an episode where people are indignant at the sight of two young people leaving Bomelia's house:

“Did you go to the German for medicines? .. He's a filthy man! After all, he is infidel! .. Before you begin to rub shoulders with him, the cross must be removed. After all, he is a sorcerer! "

As for the influence on the tsar, some researchers believe that it was on the advice of Bomelius that Ivan IV temporarily transferred the throne to the baptized Chingizid Simeon Bekbulatovich - in order to avoid the troubles and misfortunes that the stars promised the Grand Duke of Moscow that year.

But Bomelius forgot an important rule of any seer: his predictions must be pleasing to clients. And it is especially cautious to predict those who have the opportunity to “pay for the services” of the prophet not only with silver or gold, but also with a noose and a dungeon: if we predict some kind of trouble for them, then be sure to immediately give a recipe for deliverance (as in the case of “renunciation from the throne "in favor of Simeon Bekublatovich). Bomelius, as they say, in 1579, undertaking to predict the royal fate with the help of a crystal ball, got carried away and laid out a clean (as it turned out later), but very terrible truth: he told the monarch about the impending death of the heir's second wife during childbirth, the death of three sons and the suppression of the dynasty.

Ivan thanked Bomelius by hitting a heavy cup on the head, from which he was unconscious for several days. Having regained consciousness, the seer decided that he had spent too much time in Moscow and in English, without saying goodbye to the hospitable king, went to Pskov. However, Ivan the Terrible did not like foreign customs, and he considered people who left Moscow without his permission to be thieves and traitors. He sent a pursuit after Bomelius, which intercepted the fugitive. In the capital he had recklessly left behind, Bomelius was roasted alive on a spit, having time to curse the king before his death. This curse was remembered when Ivan IV died suddenly, not even having time to take the monastic vows, according to custom.

But back to Elisey Bomeliy's watch: they claim that somehow it later fell into the hands of Ivan Kulibin (he turned out to be the eighth owner of this watch) and burned down along with his house in 1814.

What can you say about this story? The first individual watches, as you know, were created in the XNUMXth century, and therefore Bomelius could really bring such a curiosity with him. However, this watch clearly had nothing to do with Herbert Aurillac. But this legend proves the wide popularity of this warlock in Russia.

Continuation of the story of Herbert of Aurillac


Other magical deeds of Herbert were the reconstruction of the abacus (the prototype of the accounts) and the astrolabe, which he also improved, according to the drawings found in the Arab books.


Abacus


Astrolabe, XNUMXth century

The astrolabe, by the way, began to be used by European sailors only a century later (although they did not forget about it a second time, and that's good). Also, our hero was the first in Christian Europe to construct Sphaera armillaris - an armillary celestial sphere, where the celestial equator, tropics, ecliptic and poles were designated.


Antonio Santucci. Armillary Sphere, 1588-1593. Galileo Museum, Florence

It is believed that it was Herbert, who became pope, who provoked in Italy the fashion for astrology, which quickly spread throughout Europe. But his personal attempts to predict the future were more than unsuccessful.

The fiasco was all the louder and more abundant that he decided to predict the end of the world. And he named its exact date: January 1, 1000. But at that time he was not a scholastic or an abbot, but a pope, to whose words the whole Catholic world listened. Panic began, engulfing all of Europe: some, having quit their jobs and caring for their families, fasted and prayed, others, on the contrary, decided to take a walk at last. And the affairs of many families fell into decay. When the end of the world did not come, the authority of Sylvester II was greatly undermined. Many consider this to be one of the main reasons for the above-mentioned revolt in Rome, due to which Emperor Otto III and Pope Sylvester II had to flee to Ravenna in 1001.

The death of this pope is, of course, also told a mystical story. Sylvester II allegedly made an automaton in the form of a copper head (teraphim), capable of giving unambiguous answers to the questions posed. Perhaps it was a kind of prototype of a slot machine that gave answers "yes" - "no" in a random order (nodding or shaking his head).


Pope Sylvester II and his mechanical computer

According to another version, the teraphim were presented to him by members of a secret society founded by the Indian king Ashoka, called the Nine Unknowns. The first version, in my opinion, is easier to believe. This machine gun allegedly discouraged Sylvester from going on his planned pilgrimage to Jerusalem. And when Sylvester died shortly after the service in the Roman Church of St. Mary of Jerusalem, the inhabitants of the city, remembering his refusal to go to the Holy Land, immediately began to say that, according to an agreement with the devil, the unclean had to take the soul of the Pope when he set foot on earth Jerusalem. According to the same legend, Sylvester II bequeathed to chop his body into pieces and bury it in different places so that the Devil would not find him. However, as we remember, this pope was buried in the Lateran Cathedral.

The most offensive thing is that even in our time, these stupid medieval rumors and gossip affect the perception of the image of this handsome and extraordinary person. And in the British TV series "The Discovery of Witches" (2018), Herbert of Aurillac unexpectedly turns out to be not even a warlock, but a vampire.


Trevor Eve in A Discovery of Witches

Well, as for Woland's visit to Moscow, if he nevertheless found time to get acquainted with the manuscripts of Herbert of Aurillac, most likely, he found in them not magic formulas, but works on geometry or astronomy. Something like this:


And, probably, Bulgakov's devil was very disappointed with his discovery.
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  1. Korsar4
    Korsar4 20 July 2020 07: 09
    +5
    Who was there among the popes.

    Passion for mathematics is good.
    But how else to perceive astrological research, and predictions of the end of the world?
    This is a little more serious than "prank and just a prank".
  2. Mytholog
    Mytholog 20 July 2020 07: 13
    14
    Looking at how people suffered, studying coordinate systems according to Neupokoev's textbook, you understand why for knowledge of mathematics one could be known as a warlock and go to the stake))
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 21 July 2020 16: 39
      -1
      Quote: Mytholog
      Looking at how people suffered, studying coordinate systems according to Neupokoev's textbook, you understand why for knowledge of mathematics one could be known as a warlock and go to the stake))

      Try to count in your head using Roman numerals
      1. Mytholog
        Mytholog 21 July 2020 16: 45
        0
        Quote: Vol4ara

        Try to count in your head using Roman numerals

        What a retrograde you are, my friend. If you crave mathematical masochism - multiply in hexadecimal system. More and more benefit will be than "rape the corpse" of Roman numerals)
  3. Free wind
    Free wind 20 July 2020 08: 57
    11
    It's interesting all the same. In Christianity, and demons studied. By the way, the succubus, like the incubus, is rather asexual, but the succubus is more in the form of a woman. Succubus proper: lie under. Incubus: lie on. There were educational institutions at the monasteries; quite a few scholars of that time graduated from them. About the end of the world, in the thousandth year. People are deeply religious, and the Pope says get ready. So not so long ago, some people found the Mayan calendar, people seem to be already educated. Yes, what was going on with us. This prokopenko, every day broadcast about the end of the world. Because the calendar ends. Yes, just a mason, glued fins, and that’s the calendar ended. So I would have gouged a stone for another thousand years.
    1. VIP
      VIP 20 July 2020 15: 57
      0
      There was a lot of noise with the end of the world. If it were not for Prokopenko, it’s nothing, but he was playing with such a serious air that they involuntarily believed. If we turned, and then ..... I wonder how he explained that there was no end of the world?
  4. Hantengri
    Hantengri 20 July 2020 09: 50
    +4
    Ivan the Terrible had no reason to hide his anger and disgrace, and secret killings of his enemies were not typical for him. On the contrary, in his reprisals and executions he strove for publicity and theatricality, sometimes bordering on blasphemy.

    Can an example of public and theatrical execution, and even bordering on blasphemy? In the sense that Ivan IV did such terrible things that his contemporaries did not do in Europe?
    1. VLR
      20 July 2020 10: 16
      14
      Nothing particularly outstanding against the background of contemporaries. The point is different: Ivan the Terrible had no reason to kill in secret. And therefore, Elisha Bomelius was not the sender, his courtiers slandered him.
      Well, and with blasphemy and theatricality - there were jokes from the Terrible Tsar: in 1570, for example, he "helped go to heaven" to the former streltsy head Golokhvast, who had gone to the monastery, by putting him on a barrel of gunpowder and blowing it up.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 12: 31
        +8
        "helped to go to heaven" to the former streltsy head Golokhvast, who had gone to the monastery, having put him on a barrel of gunpowder and blown it up.

        Remember the famous movie phrase: "I put him on a barrel of gunpowder - let him fly!"? It is interesting that, according to the fictional story "Wings of a Serf", the tsar ordered the execution of a servant who invented a "hang glider" or "ornithopter" with which he made a small flight. Professor Katorin and his comrades in the book "Unique and Paradoxical Military Equipment" considered this case to be quite historical. But, apparently, making their discoveries in the pre-Internet era, they could be wrong. hi
        A legend has survived from the era of Ivan the Terrible, that in 1565, during the Tsar’s stay in the Alexander’s settlement, the boyar servant Nikita Kryakutny publicly announced that he would fly like a bird into the sky, he made wooden wings from a tree to which he attached bird’s wings feathers. On the appointed day, he rolled down from the Crucifixion bell tower and even seemed to have flown over a high wall, landing on the banks of the Seroy River.
        Deynegi's picture:

        The people rejoiced, but the formidable king suspected the evil and ordered: “A man is not a bird, there are no wings. If anyone puts down his wings like a wooden one, he creates it against nature, for this commonwealth, with unclean force, cut off the head of the inventor, the body of the cursed, stinking dog, throw the pigs to eat, and burn the invention after the sacred liturgy with fire. ” (The Golden Gate. M., 1985). Apparently, history, if it took place in reality, has come down to us in a very embellished form.
        In 1926, a film about this was shot in the USSR:

        Here are the legends about the first Russian balloonists:
        https://sergeytsvetkov.livejournal.com/101616.html
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 23 July 2020 01: 51
          +8
          during the Tsar's stay in the Aleksandrovskaya Sloboda

          Do you want a poppy seed? He finally can be our fellow countryman with Uncle Kostya, if ... laughing
          All you, Muscovites and residents of St. Petersburg, grab the common property. Thinking just like that in Ryazan the only airborne school in the world was organized? While you and Anton are matsal in the girls' harem, Kryakutnaya, by the way, also invented the first erostat in 1731. Ivan the Terrible did not manage to catch him - he flew for almost 200 years. And after that he organized the guest workers' movement. Here! laughing drinks
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 23 July 2020 10: 21
            +1
            Ivan the Terrible did not manage to catch him - he flew for almost 200 years.

            Lesh, class! I bow! good He laughed heartily! drinks
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 23 July 2020 13: 24
              +7
              Oh ... brother! We, oblique, still can not stir up this. In general, Ryazan is the cradle of humanity and the capital of progress. Do you know Baron Munchausen? What was he flying on? Right! Kryakutnoy realized that he did not have enough gases to conquer space on a ball. I remembered that confusion with Ivan the Terrible and ... voila. "Let's go!" (C) And why did the hero from your avatar live on the roof? ... Because he was a guest worker! Copenhagen is a windy city - you can fly to the wrong place on an erostat. But nothing will stop the real Hero-Grunt! Hop-chpok - get a helicopter and sign! Checkmate! laughing drinks
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 23 July 2020 13: 31
                +1
                Do you know Baron Munchausen?

                it is interesting that during the war, in 1943, a film about the baron was shot in Nazi Germany, where he is quite himself ... fights for Russians in the 18th century, as, in principle, it was! request

                Copenhagen is a windy city - you can fly the wrong way on an erostat.

                yes, here he is from Copenhagen and flew to Stockholm by accident on erostrat, and there he attached a motor to himself. wink drinks
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 23 July 2020 13: 54
                  +6
                  yes, here he is from Copenhagen and flew to Stockholm by accident on erostrat, and there he attached a motor to himself.

                  Quite a plausible version. good

                  fighting for the Russians in the 18th century, as, in principle, it was!

                  Duc, everything is understandable - a patriot! And for what purpose did Count Cagliostro drive from sunny Italy to the country of "white flies"? Ha, this is it. Kryakutnaya. True, in order not to get fired, he did not mention that he was in Ryazan. crying

                  "Doctor, where did you get these pictures from?" (FROM)
                  Why beat around the bush - when will you return to your small homeland? winked drinks
                2. Lexus
                  Lexus 23 July 2020 16: 28
                  +8
                  In general, I have already settled with Uncle Kostya and agreed on the decision to "accept" you and "marinate" for a long time ... wink drinks
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 20 July 2020 13: 26
        +4
        Humane Quartering))
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 13: 31
          +8
          Humane Quartering))

          looking .. mmm ... which side to quarter to start. what Pugachev was first demolished. Mary Stuart, EMNIP, was chopped off just the third time. And the Good Doctor Guillotin equalized everyone in terms of metrology and mass! request
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 20 July 2020 13: 33
            +5
            So with Pugachev it was a “mockery of a corpse”, not a quartering drinks laughing
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 13: 53
              +5
              So with Pugachev it was a “mockery of a corpse”, not a quartering

              Was there such an article then? I remember that under another article - "for great blasphemy against the royal house" - they burned Archpriest Avvakum with a company. hi
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 20 July 2020 14: 08
                +7
                This is not an article - this is in fact)).
                And about the blasphemy burning, this is a clear explanation to the population of the need for prevention of fire safety, coupled with the promotion of a tolerant attitude to the Royal House fellow
                Zar life matter
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 14: 25
                  +7
                  And about the blasphemy burning, this is a clear explanation to the population of the need for prevention of fire safety, coupled with the promotion of a tolerant attitude to the Royal House

                  for the word "tolerance" (if it was then) in those days, too, it was possible to thunder at the stake. request Like these Templars, who, in particular, were also accused of the sin of Sodom.

                  Hugh Dispenser Jr., the minion of the unlucky Edward II, finished no better. Illustration from Froissart.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 20 July 2020 14: 34
                    +7
                    Tolerance is not necessarily about sexual minorities. Moreover, almost the entire hierarchical pyramid of the Catholic clergy was then indulged in Sodom's sin. laughing
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 14: 37
                      +7
                      then almost the entire hierarchical pyramid of the Catholic clergy indulged in Sodom's sin

                      ... yeah, what were they just not indulging in, if Martin Luther King openly denounced syphilitic ulcers on his church opponents! belay People are weak ... request
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 20 July 2020 14: 47
                        +5
                        Martin Luther King has a dream, and Martin Luther the founder of Protestantism - who and what he did not denounce - Jewish youth generally wanted to give out rakes and hoes without a motor negative drinks
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 15: 29
                        +5
                        Jewish youth generally wanted to give out rakes and hoes without a motor

                        what disgusting! But the sailor William Adams, who served as the prototype for the captain in the "Shogun", quite provocatively trolled the Catholic monks who tried to bring the light of faith to the Japanese. hi He argued with one, following the example of Yan Vyshatich, saying, "What are you going to do in the evening?" wink The one, the dunduk in the cassock, take it, and bryaknay - "I will walk on the water!" fellow Well, Adams defiantly and gathered the local samurai, Haiming and geishas who joined them - to look at a miracle. yes ... The miracle did not happen, how much the monk did not puff up ... request And the disbelieved children of the Land of the Rising Sun dispersed gloomily to their homes! bully
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 20 July 2020 15: 34
                        +7
                        laughing good
                        As in that joke - a rabbi, a priest and a Buddhist monk argued who can walk on the water - a Jew and a Buddhist walk like on dry land, and the priest walks in the water. Moving away from him, the rebbe says to the monk:
                        - This poz did not notice the bumps
                        - What kind of bumps?
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 July 2020 20: 49
                        +7
                        Where is the mullah ??? Oh, these tolerant Jews for me !!! laughing
                        This is a treshevy version of the ending of the anecdote, only Christians are present.
                        "-Teacher, Peter is drowning !!!
                        - Pass it along the chain, let it not show off, but it goes like everyone else, on pebbles !!! (Spitting at his feet, in an undertone), And also "Peter"! "
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 20 July 2020 21: 17
                        +4
                        laughing
                        Muslims are not the topic here - Christians are supporters of walking on water, Jews are their opponents, and Buddhists are people with super-capable people)).
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 20 July 2020 22: 08
                        +5
                        Christians are supporters of walking on water,
                        And the Finns are proponents of walking with sticks. Especially in the swamp. Buddhists?
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 21 July 2020 05: 11
                        +2
                        Not. Because with sticks. laughing
                    2. AllBiBek
                      AllBiBek 21 July 2020 00: 50
                      +3
                      To this topic.
                      If only because any Muslim is obliged to know the lives of all three prophets, and in Islam it is - apart from Magomed - Isa and Musa, that is, Jesus and Moses.

                      The concept "Rome was the first Rome, Constantinople is the second, Moscow is the third Rome, and there will be no fourth!" - it is also not quite taken out of thin air. They spied on (fortunately it was from those with whom they had close acquaintances), and creatively rethought. IMHO, the stump is clear, but it hurts on the surface.
                  2. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 21 July 2020 00: 11
                    +5
                    Quote: 3x3zsave

                    Where is the mullah ???

                    If the shore does not go to Mohammed ... then - well, his, entot shore! There are few shores in the world, or what! laughing
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 20 July 2020 19: 47
                +4
                The history of Christianity in Japan is a separate tragedy. And do not laugh at her. It is worthwhile to try on the samples of tsub with Christian symbols, and then ponder over: after all, besides the customer, there was also a performer, and this performer had an apprentice ...
              3. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 21 July 2020 00: 54
                +3
                The historian of Islam in it, but from the other end, is no less tragic, believe me.
                Generally not a disclosed topic. And she is. Malaya and the rest of the Philippines are relatively close by, and it is unrealistic to prohibit sea trade.
              4. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 21 July 2020 18: 31
                +1
                Anatoly! hi
                Generally not a disclosed topic.
                Probably yes. In any case, I personally do not know anything about the history of Islam in Japan.
              5. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 23 July 2020 01: 01
                +1
                I also don't know much, but - the Japanese are the Japanese, there are merchants, and - the south of the archipelago for centuries spat on the shogun (wako is wako) no worse than the north.

                There in the south there is such a good component of Malaysian material, and that version of Islam in the Japanese manner ...
          2. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 21 July 2020 13: 51
            +1
            It is worth looking at samples of tsub with Christian symbols, and then thinking: after all, besides the customer, there was also a performer, and this performer, an apprentice ...

            Christianity in Japan ended with the Shimabara uprising. The Christians were then cut out, and the faith itself was banned, like the head physician Margulis - the TV. stop Christianity came to Japan for the second time together with Admiral Putyatin during the Crimean War. It seems that then a number of Japanese adopted Orthodoxy. hi For this Putyatin is respected by the Orthodox Church. And this is how the Japanese themselves painted it!

            and here
      3. Alf
        Alf 20 July 2020 19: 32
        +4
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Jewish youth generally wanted to give out rakes and hoes without a motor

        Good deed and necessary. It’s a pity that it didn’t work out.
      4. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 20 July 2020 19: 47
        +4
        It turned out, but much later - a Zionist project from the end of the 19th century to the present day. hi
  5. Cristall
    Cristall 20 July 2020 23: 07
    +1
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    syphilitic ulcers

    syphilis stopped the free morals of the then society.
    Formed a new morality. To suffer sex drive is now a sin. Yes, and everything is a sin. And then syphilis does not sleep.
    So syphilis and Christianity formed the morality that even now dominates the world. Slightly yielding to progress and modern customs.
    Even now, they are not as free as they were before syphilis.
    Maybe because morality managed to turn into laws.
  6. AllBiBek
    AllBiBek 21 July 2020 00: 56
    +4
    You have such yourself with an idea of ​​the mores of that society.
    Uh-huh, syphilis stopped them. And the plague, along with cholera, stopped unsanitary conditions, and Christianity stopped the murders, along with Islam, each in its own oecumene.
  7. Cristall
    Cristall 25 July 2020 22: 31
    -1
    Quote: AllBiBek
    You have such yourself with an idea of ​​the mores of that society.

    certainly I am not a contemporary of those people.
    But we have always been and are hypersexual beings.
    This is the gift of evolution.
    Quote: AllBiBek
    And the plague, coupled with cholera, stopped unsanitary conditions

    and thanks to which mankind learned to quarantine, and the basics of medicine. Only on death.
    Death 2/3 so that the rest observe at least something, and do not try to save themselves with the cross and prayers.
    Changing morals quickly can only be done through mass deaths, as well as from desperate attempts to find antidotes to death.
    Quote: AllBiBek
    coupled with Islam, each in its own ecumene

    Islam is a young religion and at first they carried the torch of civilization. And they carried it with honor and passed it on to future successors.
  • VIP
    VIP 20 July 2020 20: 40
    +3
    This bloke in a green cap, what does he take out of a man's insides?
    Then they adored various delights in executions
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 20 July 2020 22: 32
      +2
      This bloke in a green cap is - as it were - the executioner. This is such a profession. Very respected, but very mutant.
      1. VIP
        VIP 22 July 2020 12: 03
        +1
        Thank you for saying, otherwise the preacher thought. We joke.,
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 22 July 2020 21: 36
        +1
        We joke.,
        Well then!
  • AllBiBek
    AllBiBek 21 July 2020 00: 59
    +3
    One of the options for the execution of sodomy at that time, if I'm not mistaken.
    A little later, they improved it, and began to slowly saw with a saw from the crotch to the back of the head in a head down position. But this is in a quarter of a thousand years somewhere.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 21 July 2020 12: 00
      +3
      One of the options for the execution of sodomy at that time, if I'm not mistaken.

      This hanging, gutting and quartering is the most terrible execution in England at that time. So they executed for high treason. By the way, the hero Mel Gibson from the movie "Braveheart" was executed in the same way.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 21 July 2020 02: 59
    +3
    Hi, Nikolay! hi
    According to the generally accepted opinion, Colonel Colt really equaled everyone. And Musyu Guillotin simply mechanized the labor of the executioners and, in a certain version, invented a new entertainment device for the then public. smile
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 21 July 2020 13: 22
      +4
      in some form, invented a new entertainment device for the then public

      in fact, you are right. The whole city went to watch the execution. It was necessary to have some fun! request
      And Musyu Guillotin simply mechanized the work of the executioners

      given the volume of executions, it was necessary. The executioner was tired too. In Nantes, revolutionary commissars, rabid with blood, simply drowned all unreliable barges ... No. Fast and relatively efficient.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 21 July 2020 13: 52
        +4
        Well, about barges, the Bolsheviks quickly adopted their experience.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 21 July 2020 13: 55
          +5
          Well, about barges, the Bolsheviks quickly adopted their experience.

          Uncle Kostya, I don't know what they were doing there, but the "site communists" will quickly explain to you that nothing like that happened, everyone lied, and at the same time a number of epithets about you. hi How it was there - I don't know. Better not even remember the Civil. There weren't any angels on either side, everyone was good. stop that some burned, that others burned.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 21 July 2020 13: 57
            +4
            I agree with you, everyone was good. How was Father Angela: "Beat the red ones until they turn white, beat the white ones until they turn red." laughing
  • Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 20 July 2020 10: 11
    +7
    what
    Astrolabe (Greek Astrolabon) at the beginning of the 5th century AD was known to the Christians of the Mediterranean.
    It seems to me that Herbert "did not invent the wheel." By the 12th century, the scale may have been modified for the upper (northern) latitudes.
    The armillary sphere was known to the Greeks (if I am not mistaken) at the time of Plato.
    If he improved it, coupled with the methods of mathematical calculations, he rather predetermined astronomy.
    Then the Grandstock appeared, then Sextan.

    Maybe he was not a warlock at all, but a theorist? Since he studied books with an incomprehensible name for his contemporaries, and in those days if the book was not called "The Bible", then from the "evil one".
  • Undecim
    Undecim 20 July 2020 10: 57
    +8
    The library of Cordoba is said to hold up to half a million books, while the best European libraries boasted only a thousand.
    Even 600. True, modern scientists have cut down the sturgeon very much, to 000. Such an astronomical number was based on information that the catalog consisted of 600 volumes. Modern researchers, in particular Richard Hitchcock, confused "volume" and "pages" during translation, that is, the catalog consisted of 44 pages.
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 21 July 2020 01: 13
      +2
      You are operating in terms of your time.
      At that time - as well as a couple of thousand years before him - the amount of written information was measured in scrolls. Papyrus.
      Translated into the modern - well, take any antique dialogue or narration - roughly an A3 spread on both sides and without pictures. A maximum of one hundred thousand characters.
      The same "Notes on the Gallic War" is a dozen scrolls. "State" by Plato - two scrolls, "Anabasis" by Xenophon - it seems six.

      Half a million scrolls - translated into the realities of our time and in written signs - roughly the city library of the district center. And her reading room.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 21 July 2020 17: 05
        +3
        You are operating in terms of your time
        It is not I who operate, but modern scientists. So all the questions are for them.
  • VLR
    20 July 2020 11: 24
    10
    By the way, I once parodically felt like a "foreign professor": when on the beach of a hotel in Makadi I suddenly heard a theological dispute of three elderly women (two Ukrainian women and a Russian) about tomos. I didn't have my retinue with me, let alone the naked beauty of Gella, but not even a cat, so, of course, I didn't bother to get into their conversation, but sat down next to listen carefully smile
    They came to the conclusion that the "tomos is not real" - because the patriarch did not leave it in Kiev - showed it and took it with him.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 20 July 2020 13: 44
      +2
      And eavesdropping is uncivilized.
      1. VLR
        20 July 2020 15: 33
        +5
        Well, I'm out of academic interest. And they spoke at the top of their voices, perhaps they would even be flattered by the presence of a listener smile
      2. Alf
        Alf 20 July 2020 20: 46
        +2
        Quote: Free Wind
        And eavesdropping is uncivilized.

        And what have the special services been doing at all times?
        1. Cristall
          Cristall 20 July 2020 23: 09
          +1
          Quote: Alf
          And what have the special services been doing at all times?

          It seems that
          Uncivilized overheard and impolite interfered!
          1. Alf
            Alf 21 July 2020 19: 18
            0
            Quote: Cristall
            Quote: Alf
            And what have the special services been doing at all times?

            It seems that
            Uncivilized overheard and impolite interfered!

            And some were also shot intolerantly.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 21 July 2020 03: 13
      +4
      That's right, Valery, nowhere without the Cat! laughing Thanks a lot for the article! good

      Where can we go without him, so unique! laughing drinks
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 20 July 2020 12: 48
    +8
    But Herbert did not cohabit with the beautiful Meridiana, but studied in Catalonia - in Vic.

    On wikipedia? Here you are, scoundrel!
    But seriously, a very interesting material. Thank.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 13: 23
    +7
    that his ancestor was Simon Mage - the same

    - So, Vanek, now you will glorify Mamon, King Herod, Simon the Magi ... and Lucretius Borgia ... what
    - Lu-Lu-Lucretia n-I will not ... No.

    (film "The Monk and the Devil"). I bow for the article! drinks
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 20 July 2020 13: 36
      +4
      By the way, Herod, if we abstract from the New Testament, was a completely normal ruler - during the famine in Judea he sold all the jewels that were in the palace and bought grain for the people.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 13: 54
        +4
        during the famine in Judea, he sold all the jewels that were in the palace and bought grain for the people.

        I remember from his non-biblical deeds that he kept his dead wife in honey .... what
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 20 July 2020 14: 09
          +4
          Monogamous is romantic))))
        2. Free wind
          Free wind 20 July 2020 17: 07
          +4
          Everything can be, V.I. Lenin, while developing embalming compositions, kept the same in honey. Only honey has a bad feature, all wounds - scratches received during life, begin to open when embalming in honey.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 20 July 2020 19: 43
            +4
            Tin. In general, according to Jewish law, he had to bury her.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 20 July 2020 22: 34
              +5
              So they buried his wife, according to Jewish law.
              And he smeared another with honey ...
              1. Cristall
                Cristall 20 July 2020 23: 35
                +3
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                And he smeared another with honey ...

                there are such mischievous people.
                But the legend only mentioned Mariamne ...
                Or were there other sweets?
              2. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 21 July 2020 05: 14
                +2
                He brought dead little kittens with him))
      2. Alf
        Alf 20 July 2020 19: 36
        +3
        Quote: Krasnodar
        By the way, Herod, if we abstract from the New Testament, was a completely normal ruler - during the famine in Judea he sold all the jewels that were in the palace and bought grain for the people.

        It’s interesting, but what was the ruler supposed to do in that intolerant era when he found out that someone undermines faith, by the way, the foundation of the state? Suggest a choice between a loop or uranium, to blame, copper mines?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 20 July 2020 19: 45
          +4
          What did you mean? About the gospel? Historians believe one hundred years he died at least a year before the birth of Christ.
          1. Alf
            Alf 20 July 2020 19: 46
            +2
            Quote: Krasnodar
            What did you mean? About the gospel? Historians believe one hundred years he died at least a year before the birth of Christ.

            And who sent Christ to the cross?
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 20 July 2020 19: 48
              +5
              On the cross is Pilate. Pilate passed the scribes - Temple nobility.
              1. Alf
                Alf 20 July 2020 19: 51
                +3
                Quote: Krasnodar
                On the cross is Pilate. Pilate passed the scribes - Temple nobility.

                You are right, forgot.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 20 July 2020 19: 53
                  +4
                  Herod was credited with the massacre of babies in Beit Lehem.
              2. Cristall
                Cristall 20 July 2020 23: 39
                -1
                Quote: Krasnodar
                On the cross is Pilate. Pilate passed the scribes - Temple nobility.

                Formally, the high priests brought forward the accusations.
                Pilate gave the "Good".
                For pennies. Something about 760 kg of gold was dumped ...
                Although Pontius needed gold to pay for the plot .. And he still needed tables ..
                And the attempt to offer amnesty from Pontius grows from there.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 21 July 2020 05: 01
                  +1
                  They could not press charges - Jesus was tried for separatism, what have they to do with it? Surrendered by interrogation - yes.
                  1. Cristall
                    Cristall 25 July 2020 22: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    They could not press charges - Jesus was tried for separatism, what have they to do with it? Surrendered by interrogation - yes.

                    The controversy over the judgment of Christ is an old one. Rabbinic tradition considered the crimes attributed to Him to be worthy of death. And this is an attempt on the Temple (Matt. 26, 61; Mat. 14, 58; Acts. 6, 11), claims to the status of the Messiah the Son of God or the Son of the Blessed (Matt. 26, 63-65; Matt. 14, 61- 63), non-observance of the sacred Sabbath (Matt. 12, 10; Luke 6, 7; John 5, 16; 9:16), blasphemy: forgiveness of sins to people, which only God can do (Matt. 2, 7; Matt. 9, 3; Luke 5:21)
                    1.It is true that some researchers, usually Jewish, deny that Jesus was tried by the official Jerusalem Sanhedrin of 71 members
                    2. In their opinion, the judgment against Jesus was hastily passed by the Sadducee temple elite, albeit led by the high priest
                    3. It is unlikely that the Pharisees participated in the trial of Jesus, who, being patriots, would not approve of the extradition of a Jew to the Romans. And the crowd gathered at Pilate consisted of Sadducee accomplices and henchmen
                    4. But whoever judged the Sanhedrin Christ or a narrow temple group, it was the real Jewish power, which deliberately went to violate the customary rights and rules of the Jewish court
                    Judea already had something that was forbidden in other provinces. And because of this, the templars made good talents (measure of the scales)
                    So this character of fairy tales was worth a day's earnings in gold. 720 kg .. (though on holiday)
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 25 July 2020 23: 25
                      -1
                      All Jewish researchers, together with their non-Jewish colleagues, experts in Judaism of that era and Judaism, consider this not a trial, but an interrogation, since for the trial there were more than 70 violations of the rules for its conduct.
              3. Catfish
                Catfish 21 July 2020 03: 21
                +3
                To the cross - Pilate

                It seems that just someone did not answer someone's question "What is truth?" request
          2. Hantengri
            Hantengri 20 July 2020 21: 07
            +4
            Quote: Krasnodar
            What did you mean? About the gospel? Historians believe one hundred years he died at least a year before the birth of Christ.

            If we focus on astronomy, then Jesus was born, most likely 12 years before his official (recognized by the Church) birth. For a better candidate for the Star of Bethlehem than Halley's comet is difficult to find (if, of course, there was a boy and there was a star). And in 12 BC. Herod the Great was still a little alive.))
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 20 July 2020 21: 12
              +3
              So yes - I'm not arguing with anyone)).
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 21 July 2020 03: 27
              +3
              Igor, hello! hi
              People had different opinions about Halley's comet.
        2. Operator
          Operator 20 July 2020 20: 39
          0
          From the point of view of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate, it was absolutely indifferent to who undermined the Jewish faith, which fundamentally contradicted the state religion of Rome - paganism. The head of the Jewish Sanhedrin had to go to blackmail the governor by declaring that if Jesus was pardoned, the Jews would send a denunciation to Rome against Pilate himself, who allegedly did not take into account Jesus' claims to state power in Palestine (which in reality did not exist for a simple reason - Jesus did not limited his religious teachings to the framework of one snuffed out Roman province).

          But Pilate, who perfectly understood the situation, turned the arrow towards the Sanhedrin anyway, when, after condemning Jesus, he invited the Jews to pardon one of the condemned within the framework of custom. The Jews pardoned the criminal Barabbas and became a god-damned people.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 21 July 2020 05: 07
            0
            1) The separation of Judea from the Roman Empire is separatism. The Messiah is the king of the Jews, who was supposed to free the country and people from foreign power. Jesus did not undermine the foundations of Judaism.
            2) The Jews never had a custom of pardoning someone.
            1. Operator
              Operator 21 July 2020 10: 36
              -3
              Jesus in his teaching did not lay claim to the filthy Roman province of Palestine, but to the whole world.

              Tell us yet another Jewish anecdote about the customs of the Jews of the beginning of our era - together we will laugh laughing
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 21 July 2020 10: 39
                -1
                lol
                Jesus claimed the whole world ?? Do not go to the pagans, do not go to the Samaritan city? laughing
                And why tell jokes - a bunch of literature of that time exists, starting from the rabbis, ending with Philo of Alexandria and Joseph Flavius ​​- you don't have to go far for this - everything is in the public domain fellow
      3. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 21 July 2020 01: 16
        -1
        Well, it's like a joke about "- Moishe, where did you get such an expensive watch? - Yes, my father sold it for half the price before his death ...".
        The question is: to whom did Herod sell them and for how much?
        There are the same Jews around ...
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 21 July 2020 05: 09
          +3
          Herod consolidated his power with Roman swords, and he was from the Edomites - his father converted to Judaism, his mother was a steppe - an Arabian.
  • Operator
    Operator 20 July 2020 13: 37
    -8
    Instead of recalling the scientific interests of the Roman popes, it is better to focus on the core topics of the military academy - the naval war between the Russians and the Byzantines of 1043, ending with the right of the Grand Duke of Kiev to independently appoint the Russian Metropolitan and extraditing his daughter Konstantin Monomakh for his son Yaroslav the Wise.

    A clear comparison of Russian shuttles with Byzantine dromons to understand the reasons for the victory of the Byzantines in the open sea and their subsequent defeat in shallow coastal water
    https://информа.рус/ярослав-мудрый/внешняя-политика/войны-и-походы/константинополь-1043/
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 20 July 2020 20: 21
      +2
      So you write
      1. Operator
        Operator 20 July 2020 20: 41
        -3
        On a fig - I gave a link to a meaningful article.
    2. Cristall
      Cristall 20 July 2020 23: 42
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      naval war between Russians and Byzantines of 1043,

      did the Byzantines have a strong Black Sea fleet?
      The Roman empires did not seek to have a strong fleet outside of the Alma Mater zone.
      And from raiding wars the regular fleet is not very good.
      1. Operator
        Operator 21 July 2020 00: 09
        -2
        Judging by the article (see the link in my comment), Konstantin Monomakh pulled the entire regular Byzantine fleet from the Mediterranean in order to repulse the campaign of the Russian small fleet against Constantinople. After a storm in the Black Sea in the Bosphorus region, which drowned a smaller part of the Russian fleet, the latter withdrew to the Dnieper-Bug estuary, where in response he drowned half of the Byzantine fleet.

        As a result, Konstantin Monomakh satisfied all the requirements of Yaroslav the Wise.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 20 July 2020 14: 09
    +8
    The most offensive is that even in our time, these silly medieval rumors and gossip have an impact on the perception of the image of this handsome and extraordinary person.

    I agree with the assessment of Valery.
    Unfortunately, it is very rare for people to come to power who see their duty in the development of science and enlightenment, and yet, in fact, it is science that moves humanity forward in a global sense. The hero of the article did not make any great discoveries, did not invent something new, but he was able to return to Europe the knowledge she lost, at least partially. It is especially strange to see such acts on the part of the highest church hierarch. Still, the church is one of the most conservative public institutions, moreover, it is alien to rationality, mystical, focused on the person’s subconscious fear of the unknown, and then the pope is an enlightener. Some kind of oxymoron, sorry. smile
    About the succubus.
    Is their relationship with substances such as muses traceable?
    The hypocritical and unnatural in relation to women, Christian morality could turn, as it repeatedly did with various phenomena, the inspiring muse into a succubus-devourer of vital energy, pleasure into pain and torment, and a pure emotional impulse into "sinful passion".
    Tonight I'll drink to my Merediana’s health. smile drinks
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 14: 28
      +8
      Tonight I'll drink to my Merediana’s health.

      and for Count Borrell, at the same time. drinks
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 20 July 2020 15: 24
        +7
        I asked who this Borrel is. In general, a man turned out to be quite worthy, peaceful and not stupid. In general, it is not surprising that he surrounded himself with people like the future pope Sylvester. But to drink for him is still a lot of honor: no matter how you turn it, the feudal exploiter. smile
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 20 July 2020 15: 51
          +6
          In general, a man turned out to be quite worthy, peaceful and not stupid.

          yes, I had no doubts, in principle ... wink
          But to drink for him is still a lot of honor: no matter how you turn it, the feudal exploiter.

          the time was like that! request Would you like him to be a tolerant free altruist artist? drinks
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 20 July 2020 16: 53
            +6
            I wouldn't drink to that either. No.
            How was this "free, tolerant artist" blocked, who nailed his scrotum to the square? I don't remember anymore, but I remember exactly what it was.
            Come on all of them, nafig. That we have no one to drink for? There are so many beautiful and smart women around, and for them I will! They inspire us, stimulate and reward what we deserve.
            1. Alf
              Alf 20 July 2020 19: 43
              +5
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              How was this "free, tolerant artist" blocked, who nailed his scrotum to the square? I don't remember anymore, but I remember exactly what it was.

              The Forum has already discussed the wild tricks of the plebeian Peacock, who unreasonably considers himself the creator of frescoes.
              This time this, if I may say so, "painter" climbed onto the roof of the asylum for the insane in the form of an insulting gaze, grabbed the smoothie and slashed his ear, causing blood to flood the expensive tiles. The madman's companions and he himself later explained this absurd action as follows:
              "... The prefect and the city cohort of Rome are trying to determine the line between mental illness and the lack of it, and the current healers thereby cut off from the people of Rome those citizens who prevent society from feeling united."
              The healers from the aforementioned shelter for the insane only shrugged, universally declaring that the more they cut off such Peacock people from the people of Rome, the citizens will be calmer, because if he cut off his ear today, what will he cut off tomorrow? Yes, and in the presence of venerable matrons and young children? ..
              “It would be better if I cut off my head,” they repeated to the healers from the city cohort, removing Peacock from the roof. He himself was sent to the temple of Asclepius for examination by the priests.
              The infamous troublemaker of a plebeian family named Pavlinius, known for his daring antics, is accused by the prefect of spoiling city property and will now await trial.
              The one Peacock fell into the hands of the city cohort after an outrageous trick in Naples: together with his henchmen, he brought a mountain of cart wheels to the streets of the city and set about burning them, imitating the Umbrian barbarians who committed the same deeds last winter.
              Earlier, Peacock made an even more outrageous trick: he came to the Champ de Mars, bared naked and nailed his testicles directly with a nail! He explained his actions by protesting against our blessed Caesar Augustus. About how exactly the testicles nailed to the square will harm the emperor, free quires can only guess. Truly, a man with a dull mind is capable of any madness!
              It should also be noted that this Peacock calls himself a "modern painter". However, it is known for certain that he did not paint a single fresco and that he hardly knows the art of painting at all.
              Let the troublemaker suffer the deserved punishment. Ave Caesar!
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 20 July 2020 18: 04
      +3
      The church is of course a conservative institution. But many scientists of that time graduated from educational institutions which were either at monasteries or under the patronage of the church. Yes, and many scholars were monks. Many drinks and dishes were also invented by monks. The same shampusik was invented by monks, Snails are grape, oysters the same monks began to crack. As for whether the muses were a type of succubi. So Christianity did not accept the Roman religion. Too many Christians died in the arena, for the glory of Jupiter, and for the amusement of the public who know him. Konkuba, an unmarried woman in ancient Rome. In the demonology of succubi and incubus, it is probably something like a demon of a tempter. in their demonic form they do not have a gender of a gender. It seems that the devil can also take hold of them. Incubus, this is a demon who has taken a masculine image, lying on. Succubus demon in female form, lying under. Hypocrisy, of course it is. But at the same time, knightly tournaments were held, the knights performed feats for the sake of their Dulcinea.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 20 July 2020 20: 39
        +6
        Over the course of several centuries, science has developed precisely in spite of the influence of the church. From the moment scholasticism and dogmatism replaced philosophy and the Bible became the only criterion for the truth of any knowledge, the church became an open brake on progress. It is all the more pleasing that among the highest church hierarchs there were people like the hero of the article.
        General depression, some kind of masochism of Christianity - suffer and torment in order to find eternal bliss - are completely incomprehensible to me. Why should something that brings joy to a person be considered a sin just because it brings joy?
        But the attitude of the Christian church towards women is especially outraged, even without taking into account how the adepts themselves, including the highest church hierarchs, implemented this attitude - hypocrisy and hypocrisy.
        As for incubi and succubi, I am not a demonologist, I only know that in both cases erotic moments are dominant. At the same time, as far as I understand, over the course of time, the idea of ​​demonologists about those and others changed towards an increase in the degree of "horror" of these "phenomena." At the dawn of Christianity, these "erodemons" were more attractive and seductive.
        smile
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 21 July 2020 03: 41
          +2
          At the dawn of Christianity, these "erodemons" were more attractive and seductive.

          Well, judging by what kind of succubus gets to whom, everything is like in normal life. laughing


          But with the incubum, the presentation is somehow simpler.
          1. VLR
            21 July 2020 06: 53
            +3
            The top two images are already modern fantasy interpretations. And the last picture is an allegory of a nightmare, I used it as an illustration for the article "Dreams about something bigger."
          2. Lexus
            Lexus 23 July 2020 00: 21
            +6
            Uncle Kostya would not have been himself if he had not mentioned women. laughing
            My greetings and respect, dear. hi drinks
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 23 July 2020 08: 01
              +1
              Lyosha, hello! I'm glad to see you. smile And the author mentioned the women, I just tried to illustrate.
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 23 July 2020 13: 34
                +8
                I'm embarrassed to ask ... in the extreme picture is a young lady. This is Kabaeva! The author may have problems with the "basmanny" justice. laughing drinks
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 23 July 2020 15: 21
                  +1
                  Yes, what problems are there, you do not want to be denounced naked to the whole world, so do not act naked. laughing drinks
                  1. Lexus
                    Lexus 23 July 2020 16: 24
                    +7
                    I exposed the Karlson-Koliostro just upstream. It's time to "pack" and extradite to Ryazan.laughing drinks
    3. Astra wild
      Astra wild 20 July 2020 20: 24
      +4
      Mikhail, if you are talking about your spouse, then I will +
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 20 July 2020 20: 50
        +4
        Even if I didn’t mean my spouse, I would definitely not admit it here. smile
        But in this case, there is nothing to hide. For the "+" - thanks, I will. smile hi
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild 20 July 2020 20: 55
          +3
          You + for frankness, but 2 times you can't put a mark, then I'll wait until another case
    4. Lynx2000
      Lynx2000 20 July 2020 21: 35
      0
      Remarkably, this Herbert of Aurillac, who is also Pontiff Sylvester II, was a Benedictine.
      what
      I remember that Giordano Burno, who proposed a "heliocentric model of the structure of the world" thanks to intuition, was also a Benedictine.
      Studied books forbidden by the church. Question: Could it be that "forbidden literature" was kept in the monastery?
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 20 July 2020 22: 54
        +1
        Who was Bruno ???
        Giordano Bruno was the disgusting person of his time, like Edik Limonov, he managed to annoy everyone.
        And if, in our humane age, they simply forgot about Limonov, then Bruno's contemporaries simply and unpretentiously burned him.
        1. Lynx2000
          Lynx2000 20 July 2020 23: 37
          0
          sad
          What was his "abomination"? Why did they burn it?
      2. Liam
        Liam 20 July 2020 23: 48
        +2
        Quote: Lynx2000
        Giordano Burno, who proposed a "heliocentric model of the structure of the world" thanks to intuition

        It is a pity that a certain heliocentric model was proposed by someone Copernicus 50 years before the period when Bruno lived. Bruno is a philosopher and theologian, not an astronomer.
        1. Lynx2000
          Lynx2000 21 July 2020 00: 02
          0
          I am not claiming that Bruno is an astronomer. However, in his ideas he argued that the Sun is in the center of the world, the Universe consists of many worlds, etc.

          I wonder what he did so bad to get burned?
          I have heard allegations that he was a member of Satanig sects and a homosexual ...
          1. Liam
            Liam 21 July 2020 00: 10
            +1
            Quote: Lynx2000
            claimed that the sun is at the center of the world,

            He wrote a tract in support of Copernicus and was his follower.
            Quote: Lynx2000
            The universe consists of many worlds

            More precisely, from an infinite number of worlds and an infinite number of God's options.
            Quote: Lynx2000
            to be burned

            It was for these innumerable gods that they burned it, and also for the denial of the Trinity).

            Quote: Lynx2000
            Assertions

            Well, this is already a personal opinion of the comrade. Not confirmed by facts
            1. Lynx2000
              Lynx2000 21 July 2020 03: 48
              0
              what
              So what?! Copernicus in his works relied on the works of Ptolemy, Ptolemy developed the geocentric system of Aristotle. Bruno "popularized" Copernicus' theory.
              As I understood Bruno, primitively, God is one, only he created many worlds ...
      3. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 21 July 2020 01: 19
        +1
        Answer: where else is it stored?
        It is still so, oddly enough. In ours - so for sure.
        Disposal of controversial books and icons - regardless of their historical and cultural value - is not a quick process, with a bunch of bureaucracy, and it is still more complicated than it might seem. Even if the patriarch blesses, blessing is not an order.
    5. Cristall
      Cristall 20 July 2020 23: 49
      0
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Still, the church is one of the most conservative public institutions, moreover, it is alien to rationality, mystical, focused on the person’s subconscious fear of the unknown, and then the pope is an enlightener. Some kind of oxymoron, sorry.

      I will not say so.
      When a sect is not an official religion, then it is aggressive and physically destroys competitors.
      When a sect becomes an official religion, it itself becomes a "Dragon". That is, it has a global task. Which includes education, at least for herself.
      For centuries, the church has preserved the heritage of antiquity (albeit while engaging in the destruction of sinfulness)
      Quite a lot has been preserved and restored by people educated by the church.
      For there was nowhere at first (universities a little later)
      The monopoly on knowledge and science of the century belonged to the church. And they even increased this knowledge.
      Diligently rewriting books. Conducting experiments.
      That concerns the power. THEN it is perverse in its essence. Although sometimes it allows talents to show themselves.
      The church raised architects, artists and others in such a way ..
      The church became a conservative later. Prior to this, the torch of civilization in Europe had to be carried by her.
      And globally, Byzantium and the Arabs.
      The ZRI has already collapsed.
      Quote: Lynx2000
      Studied books forbidden by the church. Question: Could it be that "forbidden literature" was kept in the monastery?

      Bible with obscene pictures. Frequent in Europe. There is in the library of the Vatican.
      In general, the clergy were sufficiently educated and savvy in the matter of obscenities.
      "forbidden" a writer could only become after the bench.
      Manuscripts are piece work.
  • VLR
    20 July 2020 15: 41
    +6
    Quote: Free Wind
    By the way, a succubus, like an incubus, is rather asexual.

    You are right, then it was believed that this entity, receiving the seed from a man in the form of a succubus, then passes it to the woman in the form of an incubus - and the woman feels it like ice (apparently, it was stored in the refrigerator waiting for a suitable passion?). It’s even interesting, how did Catholic theologians get such knowledge?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 20 July 2020 17: 15
      +5
      That's when the basics of in vitro fertilization were laid fellow
    2. Alf
      Alf 20 July 2020 20: 02
      +3
      Quote: VlR
      It’s even interesting, how did Catholic theologians get such knowledge?

      The church keeps many secrets ... laughing
    3. VIP
      VIP 20 July 2020 20: 45
      +2
      If the Succubus or Incubus is pretty, then I would not mind with her either
      1. VLR
        20 July 2020 22: 34
        +2
        These entities are the embodiment of erotic fantasies, and therefore, appearing to the person of his choice, they took the form of a partner, ideal for him. Therefore, it was believed that the pleasure of intercourse with incubi and succubi was much higher than usual. At witch trials, concerned investigators paid great attention to these aspects, and many witches "frankly admitted" that ordinary men in such cases are not competitors to the Incubus.
      2. Cristall
        Cristall 20 July 2020 23: 58
        0
        Quote: V I P
        If the Succubus or Incubus is pretty, then I would not mind with her either

        succubus - devil in female guise
        it's all the same OH.
        Even in the guise of a woman.
        the word succubus, which refers to the masculine gender, but in fact the creature does not have a specific gender and is asexual
        Often described as a young attractive woman, however, she has clawed feet and sometimes webbed wings.
        Meridian is rather an exception to the rule. Usually everything ended more prosaically for partners.
        Although the pagan gods had fun with the earthly ones as best they could ..
        But in Christianity, as always, everything starts well and ends with sin ..
        How can you anthropomorphically invent gods and their behavior and not get a copy of yourself *?
        human gods as the selection of the same people.
        Because the mind of primates did not give birth to anything so different from itself.
      3. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 21 July 2020 01: 21
        +1
        I have no complaints
        what a succubus does
        and all incubi I would be on the first
        bitch b ...
        (C)
      4. Alf
        Alf 21 July 2020 19: 21
        0
        Quote: VIP
        If the Succubus or Incubus is pretty, then I would not mind with her either

        And you do not know what the lovers of such creatures ended up with? Roughly speaking, they were fucked to death. I also love "this business", but I love life even more.
        1. VIP
          VIP 22 July 2020 11: 34
          +1
          Alf, and for some reason I also want to live. With "this case" while the caps are possible and necessary. But you need to THINK BADLY and then everything will be fine
          1. Alf
            Alf 22 July 2020 18: 13
            0
            Quote: V I P
            But you need to THINK BADLY and then everything will be fine

            Here, here, it is the HEAD, not the HEAD. laughing
            1. Cristall
              Cristall 25 July 2020 22: 40
              0
              Quote: Alf
              Quote: V I P
              But you need to THINK BADLY and then everything will be fine

              Here, here, it is the HEAD, not the HEAD. laughing

              better naked laughing
              1. Alf
                Alf 26 July 2020 22: 21
                0
                Quote: Cristall
                Quote: Alf
                Quote: V I P
                But you need to THINK BADLY and then everything will be fine

                Here, here, it is the HEAD, not the HEAD. laughing

                better naked laughing

                And your name is by chance, not Sylvia? An analogy with a nickname? love
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 20 July 2020 20: 15
    +4
    Sylvester 2 was ahead of his time. Hence all the rumors that he cohabited with Merediana and others.
    I remembered one more person who was not a single person - Ulugbek, the grandson of Tamerlane, he was also significantly ahead of his time, but to the honor of the Vatican, they did not begin to destroy everything connected with the name of Herbert. After all, his successors did not need to say that the abacus, astrolabe, astrology and everything else are from the evil one and only to the detriment of good Catholics
    1. Operator
      Operator 20 July 2020 20: 48
      0
      If the Roman cardinals began to destroy everything connected with the obscene memory of the popes and antipopes, then there is little left of the Vatican laughing
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 21 July 2020 01: 26
      +1
      The Vatican has no habit of saying anything bad about itself, its decisions, and the biographies of its dads.
      At best, the Holy See is stupidly silent.

      Well, if he admits his mistakes or sins, then in half a thousand years, somewhere.

      The only exception I know of - well, they admitted that they burned Giordano Bruno despite his de facto righteousness - after all, less than five centuries later. Yes, and then as a side of the recognition of the fact that the Earth is round.
  • VIP
    VIP 20 July 2020 20: 41
    +2
    Quote: Free Wind
    And eavesdropping is uncivilized.

    Perhaps, but it happens that it is useful
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 20 July 2020 21: 21
    +3
    Valery, I am your attentive reader and admirer. Today I read your story three times, everything is interesting, but a small jamb: you began the story about Herbert of Aurillac, and then inserted Elisey Bomelius. It seems to me that this is not entirely correct: it was possible to make a separate story about the fate of Elisha Bomeliya. Can you regard my criticism as harmful
    1. VLR
      20 July 2020 22: 00
      +4
      I took the opportunity (the legend of the watch of the warlock Herbert, brought by Bomelius to Moscow) to write a short story about the fate of this handsome adventurer. Perhaps, indeed, it should have been expanded and made Bomelia the hero of a separate article. It would be very light (to read), fictional and slightly ironic, but now it's too late.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 21 July 2020 13: 02
    +1
    Quote: VlR
    I took the opportunity (the legend of the watch of the warlock Herbert, brought by Bomelius to Moscow) to write a short story about the fate of this handsome adventurer. Perhaps, indeed, it should have been expanded and made Bomelia the hero of a separate article. It would be very light (to read), fictional and slightly ironic, but now it's too late.

    It is a pity that they did not do that. Don't mix next time.