Military Review

Three prerequisites for the entry of Donbass into Russia

143

Not so long ago, the former first prime minister of the DPR, Alexander Borodai, announced the imminent entry of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics into Russia. But are there real prerequisites for such a prospect?


Although the Kremlin hastened to refute Borodai's words, it should be admitted that there are certain grounds to talk about the possibility of the DPR and LPR joining our country. There is no denying existing for this historical and ethnocultural foundations: the majority of the population of Donbass is made up of Russian and Russian-speaking people, and the region itself once became part of the Russian Empire as Novorossia, that is, it never belonged to the Little Russian lands.

A significant part of the Donbass during tsarist times was part of the Don Cossack Region, the same situation persisted after the revolution. Only in 1920, part of the territory of the Internal Affairs Directorate was annexed to the Ukrainian SSR.

However, some historical and ethnocultural foundations are not enough; real prerequisites are also needed.

Uncertainty of political status


The first among the three main prerequisites for the entry of Donbass into Russia is the impossibility of solving the problem of its political status in the current situation. Organizing the return of Donbass to Ukraine means pushing the region towards a new escalation of the conflict.

The only situation in which it would be possible to talk about this could take place only if pro-Russian forces came to power in Kiev, but this is now impossible. Returning Donbass to Ukraine in the face of its hostile attitude towards Russia would be an extremely short-sighted step.

Donbass will not survive on its own, and Ukraine will not return it, therefore, the only normal prospect for the region is its entry into the Russian state. You can, of course, imagine the scenario of "buffer republics", eternally unrecognized, like Transnistria, for example, but do not forget that the PMR has no borders with Russia, unlike the DPR and LPR.

Russian citizenship and other steps towards integration


The second important prerequisite is the gradual integration of political and economic structures with Russia. It is no secret that a significant part of the population of the DPR and LPR has already received passports of Russian citizens. Why would Moscow start the process of issuing passports if it did not think about the possibility of including the republics in Russia in the future?


The issuance of Russian passports to residents of the DPR and LPR is going on in droves and says a lot

Today Donetsk and Luhansk students receive Russian-style diplomas, residents of the republics work without obstacles in Russia, the structures of power in the DPR and LPR are increasingly reminiscent of the Russian model of organizing the administrative vertical.

As for the economic component, the region rich in natural resources, even now, after a long-term war, is of great interest, not only from a resource point of view, but also based on its geographical position. Almost the entire Donbass would have united if the DPR and LPR had entered the Russian Federation. Moreover, economically, the republics have long been tied to cooperation with Russia.

However, there is a certain problem here: Donbass is now divided between the republics and Ukraine, and the economic unity of the region is seriously damaged. After all, a significant part of it is under the control of the Ukrainian armed forces.

Amendments to the Constitution and the future of Donbass


The third prerequisite for the entry of Donbass into Russia is of a regulatory nature and is associated with the recent adoption of amendments to the Constitution of the Russian Federation. Thus, the concept of "compatriots" appeared in the Russian Constitution, and the protection of their interests is proclaimed at the constitutional level.

Formally, of course, it does not directly follow from this amendment that Russia should facilitate the entry into its composition of territories inhabited by Russian and Russian-speaking populations, but in the Donbas, compatriots are under the threat of Ukrainian aggression, that is, there is a situation where they need protection from the Russian state.


The integration of the Donbass republics with Russia is increasingly becoming the main topic of specialized forums and conferences

At one time, Crimea was included in the Russian Federation quite quickly and without any problems. The reunification of the peninsula with Russia took place following the results of a referendum, but no one bothers to hold such a referendum in the DPR and LPR.

Obstacles on the way


Despite the existence of prerequisites, there are undoubted obstacles to the entry of the republics into Russia, and these obstacles are no less weighty. The Kremlin remains the only actor capable of making a decision on the republics joining Russia. So far, Moscow has been pursuing a very cautious policy, continuing to talk about the territorial integrity of Ukraine. But one thing is the official statements of representatives of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or the Presidential Administration of the Russian Federation, and quite another thing is real actions, which rather testify in favor of the prospect of entry.

Perhaps, the time has not yet come to state our position on Donbass. But if the Russian government decided to take such a step, its rating would go up, even despite the economic and social problems that are present in the life of our country.
Author:
Photos used:
Twitter / Denis Pushilin
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  1. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 18 July 2020 13: 21 New
    +8
    But if the Russian government decided on such a step, its rating would go up

    I'm afraid not.
    Firstly, a little late. After all, the question will arise if the territories were going to be annexed, why military operations, shelling, the mass death of civilians, and so on and so forth allowed.
    Secondly, after the pension reform, constitutional changes, zeroing and the like, the credit of trust in the government has been largely expended.
    Thirdly, quarantine. Even without him, the integration of Crimea was by no means painless, but he was not ruined by the war. The restoration of the LPR and the DPR will require large investments at times.
    In general, such a step, of course, is possible, but the benefits of it are not at all obvious.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 18 July 2020 13: 24 New
      +2
      Although the Kremlin was quick to refute Boroday’s words, it’s worth admitting that there are still certain reasons to talk about the possibility of the DNI and LC becoming part of our country.


      Not certainly in that way wink ... Say differently: Expressed bewilderment regarding the statement, moreover in a very vague wording.

      - "Ни да ни нет,понятия не имеем"
      1. Sergey39
        Sergey39 18 July 2020 13: 59 New
        -7
        And what, Peskov had to say about secretly developed plans for accession?
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 18 July 2020 14: 06 New
          +7
          Quote: Sergey39
          And what, Peskov had to say about secretly developed plans for accession?

          Please introduce for a moment, dear Sergey39 that I’m commenting not on Peskov’s statement, but specifically on how author Ilya Polonsky describes in his article his vision of the Kremlin’s reaction ...

          Presented?

          But this is exactly what I did yes
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 18 July 2020 17: 52 New
          0
          Do you have these plans at all? For how many years there has been talk only about the reintegration of the rebellious provinces back into the Ukrainian anarchy, albeit on special conditions.
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 19 July 2020 21: 26 New
            +3
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Are there any plans at all?

            What for? What exactly prevents LDNR from becoming independent states, or, better, one state? What prevents us from concluding an agreement on military and economic cooperation with them as states? And let them annex other territories under their flag that wished to leave the Kievites. What's wrong with that? In ten years this way, in ten years, you can consider joining them, when the whole world gets used to their independence. And today this is not necessary. We can solve all everyday issues with no less efficiency within the framework of interstate cooperation.
    2. Asian
      Asian 18 July 2020 13: 46 New
      11
      Better sooner than later, and better later than never. Point.
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 18 July 2020 14: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      In general, such a step, of course, is possible, but the benefits of it are not at all obvious.

      Such a step is simply necessary .. and in the matter of the reunification of our people and territories the question of money should not be raised at all .. But as for the rest, I agree with you, we will not see this authority, the half-measures policy leads to the fact that we are being crushed from all sides , Armenia and Azerbaijan will look at the war, the situation in Belarus is not rosy, the Ukrainian people are making warlike statements .. on all fronts it’s cracking, and zeroed out in the bunker hid and can’t deal with internal problems (Khabarovsk) .. The situation is becoming disturbing.
    4. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 18 July 2020 14: 05 New
      10
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      In general, such a step, of course, is possible, but the benefits of it are not at all obvious.

      Remember how there in the film "Moscow Does Not Believe in Tears":
      I love my friends, because although we have known each other for a thousand years, we are interesting to each other. I love your mother because ... because I love ...

      So it is here. There are probably few benefits and greed, but we are not the "skins" who look at the grief of their compatriots (citizens of one, even the former Fatherland, who turned out to be outside Russia of their own free will) and calculate the preferences of accession.
      This issue should not be decided in the Kremlin, but in a referendum, where the people of Russia will express their opinion on the inclusion of people in Russia who have determined their future with the Russian people. And we should not be interested in the opinion of politicians whose duty is to observe primarily state interests. We must be led by our own conscience, we must be led by our own prudence and compassion.
      1. Vladimir Kiev
        Vladimir Kiev 24 July 2020 12: 46 New
        +1
        Think narrowly, dear.
        What compassion and prudence ??! Kindergarten, by God!
        Это, геополитика и "соотечественники" не более чем инструмент, который можно использовать по-разному. Сейчас Кремлю более выгодно держать рану Донбасса открытой и запустив туда пятерню контролировать и давить Украину.
        And it will be so sooo long ...
    5. Pravodel
      Pravodel 18 July 2020 16: 05 New
      +2
      You shouldn't be afraid, dear Senior Sailor. On the contrary, the rating of the authorities would have sharply strengthened. The Russian people have an extremely strong idea of ​​annexation, the return of Russian lands back to Russia. Although the Russian people do not go to rallies because of this, their attitude to the Russian land is unequivocal: the Russian lands with the Russian people are our Russian lands, and they will return to their homeland. Not necessarily now and immediately, but be sure to return. In equal measure, as the confidence that no one can and should not offend, let alone destroy the Russian people. Therefore, any message from the authorities to the return of our Russian lands is a deep demand and aspiration of our people.
      Yes, of course, the returned lands will require serious work from us to restore them. Precisely in order to spoil Russia as much as possible during the restoration of Donbass, the Banderlog brutally iron Donbass. But nothing will come of it. Donbass, like Crimea, will return to its homeland, and this will make Russia even stronger and more powerful. Now this, in turn, scares the liberals inside Russia and their patrons in the west. Therefore, the West, the Anglo-Saxons will do everything to prevent Donbass from returning to their homeland, or at least delay it as much as possible and make this return as costly as possible. Hence the articles on the Internet, about the fact that the Donbass does not need to be returned, that it will be extremely costly, that the pension reform and the epidemic have crippled Russia and it does not need to take care of the Russians living abroad, and even more so about the Donbass. Therefore, dear Senior Sailor, with your arguments, you would have looked better at the village of Ponomarev, Gudkov, Yashin, Khodorkovsky and other figures for whom Russia is a training ground for betraying Russia itself and its people.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 18 July 2020 16: 37 New
        +7
        Какое такое "вхождение"? Вам же давеча, русским языком "обнуленнный" сказал, что "Россия не рассматривает ЛНР и ДНР ни в каком ином, будущем статусе, кроме, как в составе Украины"... Занавес. yes Как в святом писании сказано? "Где будет твое богатство, там- будет и сердце твое", а где у Кремля "богатство" пораспихано? Вот то, то и оно. wink
        1. Alexander Dolgov
          Alexander Dolgov 24 July 2020 11: 38 New
          0
          He says a lot. Maybe he will change his mind. Let's say the time has come ...
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 18 July 2020 17: 42 New
        +9
        Quote: The Truth
        On the contrary, the rating of the authorities would have sharply improved.

        and then, after new sanctions, it fell again. Do you like swing?
        Quote: The Truth
        Because of this, the Russian people do not go to rallies, but their attitude to the Russian land is unambiguous: the Russian lands with the Russian people are our Russian lands, and they will return to their homeland.

        when the current government in 2014. handed over to Azerbaijan two Daghestani villages with a POPULATION and half of the water intake of the Samur River asked the Russian people?
        Maybe it’s enough to broadcast on behalf of the entire Russian people, who are not deciding anything at the moment?
        Quote: The Truth
        on the village of Ponomarev, Gudkov, Yashin, Khodorkovsky and other figures for whom Russia is a testing ground for betrayal of Russia itself and its people.

        But what can you say about the loyal patriots in power who have real estate and loot abroad?

        Can't you see the beam in your eye?
      3. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 18 July 2020 17: 55 New
        -3
        Blablabla, blablabla Have you really decided that you can convince someone of something with this silly footcloth from a meaningless set of quasi-patriotic letters?
      4. Aleksandr21
        Aleksandr21 18 July 2020 17: 59 New
        +8
        Quote: The Truth
        .... Donbass, like Crimea, will return to their homeland ...


        Так нужно было действовать в 2014 а не спускать "Русскую весну" на тормозах. Сейчас если говорить о русском народе живущим на Украине (а именно Юго-Восток) то никто больше не поверит обещаниям Кремля, люди уже не выйдут на улицы и не будет такой поддержки которая была, всё шанс упущен. С Донбассом тоже, вы смотрели карту ? какую часть контролирует Украинская сторона и какую контролирует ЛДНР. Там получается что у ЛДНР около половинки каждой из областей (даже чуть меньше) и тут либо освобождать территорию до границ Донецкой и Луганской области либо принимать в состав России в тех границах которые есть. Но опять же если бы в Кремле хотели присоединить Донбасс то уже давным давно это бы сделали, а так по минским соглашениям мы признаем что это территория Украины и по этим же соглашениям мы стараемся обратно впихнуть эту территорию. Паспорта же раздали для одной единственной цели - перетащить соотечественников в Россию, чтобы они тут обустроились и жили, а Донбасс судя по всему ждем не радостное будущее. Конфликт будет продолжаться годами, если одна из сторон не начнёт активные действия и тогда тем кто там останется не позавидуешь, старики умрут, молодежь уедет кто в Россию, кто в Украину, люди с семьями тоже если будет возможность постараются уехать из такого региона, у которого нет перспектив и который постоянно в состояние войны.... так что всё очень грустно, и перспективы у Донбасса не обнадёживающее.
        1. Vladimir Kiev
          Vladimir Kiev 24 July 2020 12: 55 New
          0
          Speak the truth!
          Now, if in 2014, as Surkov promised, a Ukrainian would also blaze up to the Dnieper. people will happily run to the Russian Federation as part of a dozen regions - this is the kind of Novorosiya you can attach. And no one needs such a stub - and Ukraine, incl.
      5. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 18 July 2020 18: 44 New
        +2
        Quote: The Truth
        Therefore, dear Senior Sailor, you, with your reasons, would rather look at stanitsa Ponomarev, Gudkov, Yashin, Khodorkovsky

        Уважаемый коллега, я и есть "на станице". В смысле, живу в одной из станиц Краснодарского края:)))
        As for the topic of the article, you probably did not notice, but it was about the government of the Russian Federation, and not about its people. These concepts are not at all identical.
        and therefore, your revealing pathos is slightly inappropriate.
        1. Senior manager
          Senior manager 20 July 2020 11: 56 New
          0
          Нравится обмен мнениями, очень. Нет у Вас, комрады, необходимого объема стратегической информации для принятия тех, или иных решений. Наша полемика сводится к анекдоту. "У меня есть человек, который придя во власть, враз решит проблемы России. Но он сейчас занят - таксует."
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Antifreeze
    Antifreeze 18 July 2020 13: 41 New
    +8
    Now, of course, no one will take such a step. The time has not come yet.
    1. Grits
      Grits 19 July 2020 12: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: Antifreeze
      Now, of course, no one will take such a step. The time has not come yet

      Time has already gone
  4. Tank hard
    Tank hard 18 July 2020 13: 41 New
    -9
    There is such an opinion:
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 18 July 2020 15: 33 New
      +3
      The author is delusional at the beginning, reasoning normally, but at the end such Putin promised that everything will be
  5. Boris Afinogenov
    Boris Afinogenov 18 July 2020 13: 41 New
    +4
    I don’t know how this will all end now, but I know one thing: LDNR citizens need to get Russian passports now, and, perhaps, with the next government, they should be part of Russia. And even if he doesn’t come to the polit. level, but you need to integrate into the native harbor at the philistine level
    1. Genry
      Genry 18 July 2020 15: 08 New
      +5
      Цитата: Борис Афиногенов
      LDNR citizens need now to obtain Russian passports

      Already 300 thousand have received and 500 thousand have been approved.
      Soon there will be no Ukrainian citizens left in the LPNR and the question of territorial ownership will disappear in fact ...
      1. Normal ok
        Normal ok 19 July 2020 02: 41 New
        0
        Quote: Genry
        Цитата: Борис Афиногенов
        LDNR citizens need now to obtain Russian passports

        Already 300 thousand have received and 500 thousand have been approved.
        Soon there will be no Ukrainian citizens left in the LPNR and the question of territorial ownership will disappear in fact ...

        According to official Russian statistics, 127000 people have received passports.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 19 July 2020 08: 06 New
          0
          Quote: Normal ok
          127000 people received passports.

          a drop in the sea
        2. Genry
          Genry 19 July 2020 19: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Normal ok
          According to official Russian statistics, 127000 people have received passports.

          Russian citizenship in 2019 received 227 тыс. residents of the self-proclaimed DPR and LPR. Police Major General Valentina Kazakova, head of the Migration Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, said this in an interview with Izvestia.

          Об этом сообщает "Рамблер". Далее: https://news.rambler.ru/world/43575012/?utm_content=news_media&utm_medium=read_more&utm_source=copylink

          And half of 2020 has already passed ...
  6. Pavel57
    Pavel57 18 July 2020 13: 45 New
    +2
    Quote: Senior Sailor
    The restoration of the LPR and the DPR will require large investments at times.
    In general, such a step, of course, is possible, but the benefits of it are not at all obvious.

    Worse if you have to rebuild all of Ukraine.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 18 July 2020 13: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Pavel57
      Worse if you have to rebuild all of Ukraine.

      Naturally, without certain injections into ex-Ukraine, in this case you can not do yes , but remember the historical example of the restoration of East Germany (I’ll put the West out of the picture, there’s another story) ...

      Yes, there was help from the USSR, but how much could we give then, ourselves devastated? And the Germans themselves, with pens, restored the country.

      Ex-Ukraine, in this case, too - arbeiten und arbeiten yes
      1. Genry
        Genry 18 July 2020 15: 12 New
        -5
        Quote: Insurgent
        Ex-Ukraine, in this case, too - arbeiten und arbeiten

        Most Svidomo imprisoned for free, and therefore are carried on different carrots ...
        If you say that it will be necessary to work harder to become part of Russia, they will behave like scalded people.

        You need to enter your protectoratebut without economic assistance. Give only loans for land and real estate. And more PR about gingerbread cookies ....
      2. avia12005
        avia12005 18 July 2020 15: 15 New
        +5
        Russia, represented by Yeltsin, and in the future, with its indifference and inaction, contributed well to the formation of such a Ukraine.
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 18 July 2020 17: 58 New
          +3
          And the Ukrainians themselves apparently resisted with all their might? But the evil Muscovites again ate all the bacon and drank all the vodka from the poor, innocent, naive Ukrainians.
      3. your1970
        your1970 19 July 2020 01: 20 New
        -2
        Quote: Insurgent
        remember the historical example of East German recovery

        It extremely bad example ... The Germans worked for the ration of bread in an occupied country. ....
  7. Valery Valery
    Valery Valery 18 July 2020 13: 47 New
    +1
    We wait! We will be glad!
  8. svp67
    svp67 18 July 2020 13: 58 New
    +7
    Alas, the situation now is such that without providing citizens of these republics with guarantees of their safety, this problem has no solution. In addition, there is a great need to provide these people with special conditions, for the same pension, doing business, it is necessary to win the hearts and souls of people, and not just the territory
    1. Bumblebee_3
      Bumblebee_3 18 July 2020 14: 13 New
      +3
      svp67 (Sergey)
      Я думаю, что сердца и души, людей Донбасса, давно на стороне России. В свое время даже провели референдум. Вот только нерешительность власти РФ, привела к некоторой разочарованности. Ведь даже такой шаг РФ как выдача паспортов была воспринята "не очень" нужно было заплатить пошлину. Да потом это устранили, но у людей осадочек остался
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 18 July 2020 15: 05 New
        +4
        Quote: Bumblebee_3
        I think that the hearts and souls of the people of Donbass have long been on the side of Russia.

        all? I don’t think so.
        Quote: Bumblebee_3
        At one time, they even held a referendum.

        what was his question?
        Quote: Bumblebee_3
        That's just the indecision of the Russian authorities, led to some disappointment.

        the decisiveness of the authorities ended after the meeting between GDP and the President of Switzerland. I wonder why?
        1. Bumblebee_3
          Bumblebee_3 18 July 2020 15: 49 New
          +2
          Silvestr (Sylvester)
          Quote: Silvestr
          the decisiveness of the authorities ended after the meeting between GDP and the President of Switzerland. I wonder why?

          I'm also wondering why?
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 18 July 2020 15: 52 New
            -3
            Quote: Bumblebee_3
            I'm also wondering why?

            What is Switzerland's main business? -Banks! And in the banks is money, someone's
            1. Bumblebee_3
              Bumblebee_3 18 July 2020 16: 41 New
              -1
              Silvestr (Sylvester)
              Короче говоря, как говорил М.Задорнов "все дело в бабках и не надо мне лохматить бабушку"
  9. Sergei 777
    Sergei 777 18 July 2020 13: 59 New
    0
    However, there is a certain problem here: Donbass is now divided between the republics and Ukraine, and the economic unity of the region is seriously damaged. After all, a significant part of it is under the control of the Ukrainian armed forces.
    Well this is a problem to be solved
    1. Bumblebee_3
      Bumblebee_3 18 July 2020 14: 20 New
      +1
      Sergey 777 (Dr. No)
      Quote: Sergey 777
      Well this is a problem to be solved

      How so?
      1. Sergei 777
        Sergei 777 18 July 2020 15: 39 New
        -6
        The 8th Guards Army in the Rostov Region may politely ask the APU to leave.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. Deniska999
    Deniska999 18 July 2020 14: 27 New
    -1
    And will the budget withstand another subsidized region?
    1. Bumblebee_3
      Bumblebee_3 18 July 2020 14: 35 New
      +9
      Deniska999
      А почему вы считаете, что Донбасс это "дотационный регион" . ?
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 18 July 2020 15: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: Bumblebee_3
        А почему вы считаете, что Донбасс это "дотационный регион" . ?

        because the donor is Russia. Google size infusions
        1. Bumblebee_3
          Bumblebee_3 18 July 2020 15: 54 New
          +7
          Silvestr (Sylvester)
          Вы считаете, что при вхождении Донбасса в РФ, Донбасс так и будет дотационным? Иными словами "нахлебниками"?
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 18 July 2020 17: 34 New
            -6
            Quote: Bumblebee_3
            Do you think that when Donbass enters the Russian Federation, Donbass will be subsidized?

            Subsidized regions of the Russian Federation

            The leader is Dagestan. Compared to 2018, subsidized contributions to the Republic of Dagestan in 2019. grew by about 10% percent. In the second large subsidized region (Yakutia), the level of subsidies increased by about 3 billion rubles.
            In 2019, subsidy contributions were increased for 49 objects of Russia, the number of regions that do not require subsidies is still small.
            What kind of production can be launched in LDNR under the conditions of sanctions (even if coal is sold through shell companies) so that the region is self-sufficient?
            1. Achilles
              Achilles 18 July 2020 20: 58 New
              +2
              Quote: Silvestr
              Subsidized regions of the Russian Federation

              In many regions, Moscow and St. Petersburg bought everything, and taxes go there, if taxes remained in the regions, then subsidies were not needed
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 18 July 2020 21: 50 New
                +3
                Quote: Achilles
                In many regions, Moscow and St. Petersburg bought everything, and taxes go there, if taxes remained in the regions, then subsidies were not needed

                Is there another option for the development of the situation? I have to accept the situation as it is
      2. Deniska999
        Deniska999 18 July 2020 19: 23 New
        +4
        Because in order to extend their standard of living to the average in Russia, you will have to ditch a lot of funds. But this is not even a matter of economic, but of a political nature, since everyone will be compared as it was before and under Russia.
  12. Boris55
    Boris55 18 July 2020 14: 31 New
    -6
    The population of LDNR is about two million. Of these, Russian passports received about 100 thousand. This is 20% including those who have no other choice, i.e. about 20% of the LDNR population want to join Russia, and what will we do with the remaining 80% of the population?

    The fact that LDNR leaders need a roof in the form of Russia is understandable, but the people are somehow not very happy. A referendum on this issue has not yet been held, is it because the result is known?
    Is it not possible that in the afternoon 20% will meet us with flowers, and at night 80% will stick a knife in our backs?
    1. Vladimir Kiev
      Vladimir Kiev 24 July 2020 13: 06 New
      0
      I think that it is in the LDNR that the ratio is reversed and not 20/80 but 10/90.
  13. codetalker
    codetalker 18 July 2020 14: 39 New
    -8
    Donbass will return to Russia. But not now and not one. And today you can cry, you can swear, shout: "Putinslie !!!". This will not bring peace to Ukraine. But to think how everyone in their place can contribute to this would be useful.
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 18 July 2020 18: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: codetalker
      But to think how everyone in their place can contribute to this would be useful.

      Uh-huh kaneshna. Come on with your advice, go somewhere .. to the UN.
      1. codetalker
        codetalker 18 July 2020 18: 32 New
        -2
        Only if you follow with your “wise” suggestions. We will meet there!
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 18 July 2020 21: 13 New
          -2
          Your demagogic chatter is not interesting to me. Rid the site of your presence.
          1. codetalker
            codetalker 18 July 2020 21: 40 New
            0
            “For three days I chased you to tell me how indifferent you are to me”?)
  14. stankow
    stankow 18 July 2020 14: 46 New
    +2
    Quote: Boris55
    The population of LDNR is about two million. Of these, Russian passports received about 100 thousand. This is 20% including those who have no other choice, i.e. about 20% of the LDNR population want to join Russia, and what will we do with the remaining 80% of the population?

    The fact that LDNR leaders need a roof in the form of Russia is understandable, but the people are somehow not very happy. A referendum on this issue has not yet been held, is it because the result is known?
    Is it not possible that in the afternoon 20% will meet us with flowers, and at night 80% will stick a knife in our backs?

    100 thousand out of 2 million is 5%, not 20%
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 18 July 2020 15: 51 New
      -3
      Quote: stankow
      100 thousand out of 2 million is 5%, not 20%

      Especially.
    2. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 18 July 2020 18: 04 New
      +6
      Quote: stankow
      100 thousand out of 2 million is 5%, not 20%

      Как же некоторым хочется все перевернуть. Этим "некоторым", вместе с Гретой Тумберг, следует вернутся в школу, а не строить из себя "самый умный".
      This means that everything that is being done is being done correctly!

      1. In the Luhansk region, as of October 1, 2014, 2 thousand people lived in the region!
      2. In the Donetsk region, 4 343 882!
      3. Of which, more than one and a half million left (2014-2018) to the Russian Federation and 800 thousand to the Outskirts!
      4. A few days ago, in the LPR, the 100 thousandth passport of the Russian Federation was presented, 500 thousand in processing!
      1. Cristall
        Cristall 19 July 2020 00: 37 New
        -11
        Quote: Vladimir61
        1. In the Luhansk region, as of October 1, 2014, 2 thousand people lived in the region!
        2. In the Donetsk region, 4 343 882!
        3. Of which, more than one and a half million left (2014-2018) to the Russian Federation and 800 thousand to the Outskirts!

        this is the entire population of the regions.
        ORDLO is 1/3 of the oblasts. (No more than 2 million in total remains and this is the data of the DPR itself, they themselves can’t calculate for sure)
        More migrants left for Ukraine than for the Russian Federation. Yes, and generally moves across the line of demarcation.
        So the population of Donbass is most of all in Ukraine. ORDLO is certainly not controlled.
        1. Donchanka
          Donchanka 19 July 2020 17: 11 New
          0
          As of October 2019, according to the results of the census, 3 people. 718 thousand to the outskirts, they think so there. Of this number, there are about 931 thousand retirees who do not live there, but have registered to receive their pension. Ukrainian. Pensions are received, according to Ukraine, by less than 800% of the population of the LPR, the rest do not go after them.
          1. Cristall
            Cristall 20 July 2020 00: 49 New
            -1
            Quote: Donchanka
            As of October 2019, according to the census, 3 people

            The census is official and in many ways there are many questions.
            The total population in the "DPR" counted 2 million 270 thousand people, the same department of the "LPR" stably "shows" 1.5 million people - only about 3.7 million
            For comparison, according to indirect indicators such as the consumption of drinking water and bread, UN experts estimate the population of uncontrolled parts of Donetsk and Lugansk regions at 2.8 million people. The difference is 900 thousand.
            As thought, you can look at just such a moment-
            The population of the shelled, depopulated on the front line of cities such as Yasinovataya and Dokuchavsk, it turns out, supposedly increased significantly compared with the pre-war level. For Yasinovataya, this is an increase from pre-war 35 thousand to 43.
            Apparently from shelling people multiply faster.
            Retirement is not easy. Demarcation line. They don’t want to let him out because of the virus.
            Yes, and age. But you need to get only on the controlled. For giving out where you do not control anything is absurd.
            However, there are questions who else is positioning themselves. If he is against Ukraine and wants to in the Russian Federation., But he wants a pension here and there. Or categorically chose one side. Or just wants to live outside politics.
            Ukraine gives out pensions. Provides water (on loan because of what problems)
            Всякие разговоры о том что нужно прекратить эту "Благотворительность" остались только разговорами. Хотя это конечно по военному называется "снабжением" экономики противника.
  15. New Year day
    New Year day 18 July 2020 15: 00 New
    +1
    The first among the three main prerequisites for joining Donbass to Russia is the impossibility of solving the problem of its political status in the current situation

    The impossibility of solving it by whom? Ukraine? - Yes. She does not need a rebellious region.
    Russia? - Yes. The economic component of direct costs + additional sanctions from the West against the background of a drop in GDP already by 7% means that the country's economic growth is impossible. And to restore you need money and only money. Elites are not able to change their capital in the West for the sake of joining, because in this case everything they have acquired will simply be blocked / confiscated.
    that a significant part of the population of the DPR and LPR has already received passports of Russian citizens.

    Rave. Of the 3.5 million inhabitants of the LDNR, no more than 200 thousand have received a Russian passport.
    Why would Moscow start the process of issuing passports if it did not think about the possibility of including the republics in Russia in the future?

    exactly then, as given to Ossetia and the PMR. Issuance of passports does not mean a desire to enter
    Thus, the concept of "compatriots" appeared in the Russian Constitution, and the protection of their interests is proclaimed at the constitutional level.

    а "Русскую весну" слить полностью теперь конституция не позволит? Она, "Русская весна", почила по инициативе авторов конституции.
    the region rich in natural resources is of great interest even now, after many years of war

    not of any interest. The production facilities have been destroyed, and the reduction of mines is actually in full swing. Donbass coal is a competitor to Kuzbass.
    The reunification of the peninsula with Russia took place following the results of a referendum, but no one bothers to hold such a referendum in the DPR and LPR.

    So what's the deal? It is necessary to remember who did not recommend holding it in 2014
    But if the Russian government decided to take such a step, its rating would go up, even despite the economic and social problems that are present in the life of our country.

    глупости! Какой рейтинг! Маленькая победоносная война? Мечта властей избавиться от существующих санкций и не получить новые, которые неизбежно в этом случае будут, а также о "якоре" для Украины на пути в НАТО. Оторвав территории от Украины, Россия даст форсаж Украине, получает массу санкций и самое главное- ничего не получает взамен и даже наоборот, все резко для страны ухудшается.
    "Забота о соотечественниках"- ширма и не более, если только соотечественники не проживают на загнивающем Западе или Штатах.
  16. Gardamir
    Gardamir 18 July 2020 15: 12 New
    +2
    there is one prerequisite, but the main one, raising the rating. I hope there are few rams left.
  17. demo
    demo 18 July 2020 15: 18 New
    +2
    Formally, of course, it does not directly follow from this amendment that Russia should facilitate the entry into its composition of territories inhabited by Russian and Russian-speaking populations, but in the Donbas, compatriots are under the threat of Ukrainian aggression, that is, there is a situation where they need protection from the Russian state.

    Everything is rather simpler and more prosaic.
    The territory that is now called LDNR is temporarily (I emphasize temporarily) taken under the guardianship of the Russian Federation, until the conditions specified in the Minsk agreements are met.
    Guardianship implies the armed protection of the population from encroachment on their life, health and property.
    After the full, unconditional and irrevocable fulfillment of all conditions, the Russian Federation is considering the issue of granting the population of Lao PDR the right to choose.

    Easier does not happen.

    Those. no one annexes anything, doesn’t introduce their own laws, doesn’t impose his way of life.
    Only wired. And nothing more.
  18. parusnik
    parusnik 18 July 2020 15: 20 New
    0
    At one time, they would have given the LDNR Mariupol back, you could say .. And so ...
    1. ANB
      ANB 18 July 2020 22: 50 New
      0
      . In due time, they would have given LDNR Mariupol back

      And then lose it as a port.
      And then what to feed its population?
      The minus was not mine.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 19 July 2020 08: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: ANB
        And then lose it as a port.
        And then what to feed its population?

        but go out to sea. And there, along the steppes and the Dnieper is not far
  19. Private89
    Private89 18 July 2020 15: 27 New
    +4
    Everything that happened to Donbass and that the Bandera regime is still in Ukraine is a direct consequence of the betrayal of our bourgeois elite and Mr. President as well.
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 18 July 2020 18: 04 New
      -3
      To drag the rifle fables here is of course an argument. I would even say the argument.
  20. TAMBU
    TAMBU 18 July 2020 15: 44 New
    +2
    a significant part of the population of the DPR and LPR have already received passports of Russian citizens

    I would like in numbers ...
  21. eklmn
    eklmn 18 July 2020 16: 10 New
    -3
    I do not understand what is more important to the author - the people of Donbass? Territories? Together?
    If the people, then take them to Russia and give the territory to Ukraine.
    If the territory, then except for the occupation to own them does not work.
    If we support the separation of Donbass from Ukraine, then what prevents other countries from supporting the separation of Chechnya / Siberia / Far East from Russia? Yes, physically this is not yet possible, but no one will forbid dripping on the brain via the Internet and other forums ....
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 18 July 2020 18: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: eklmn
      If we support the separation of Donbass from Ukraine, then what prevents other countries from supporting the separation of Chechnya / Siberia / Far East from Russia? Yes, physically this is not yet possible, but no one will forbid dripping on the brain via the Internet and other forums

      Do not make me laugh. Essentially, everyone doesn’t give a damn whether Donbass will secede or not. And how it will be. But the benefits of these processes do not give a damn.
  22. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 18 July 2020 16: 11 New
    +8
    Экономически,внешнеполитически ,с точки зрения обороны - все это сейчас "не в тему". Нам пришлось бы выстраивать и оборудовать сотни километров границы ,передислоцировать на эти территории военные части и инфраструктуру - все это было бы до боли похоже на ту ошибку,которую мы совершали перед Великой Отечественной .Этим людям пришлось бы выплачивать пенсию (из каких фондов ?) ,лечить и учить их , организовывать строительство и восстановление домов и инфраструктуры (и финансирование этого,опять таки -из каких фондов ?) - в условиях примера активного применения санкций ко всему,что работает по Крыму.
    На очередное брыкание копытом и обстрелы придется отвечать уже росс.армии и пограничникам ,в Киеве все это явно прибавит очков "партии войны" . Под этим соусом США и Ко мигом проведут все пока еще буксующие санкции ,скорее всего еще эффективнее отрубящие нас от дохода и контактов с ЕС. То есть денег станет еще меньше .

    В общем на текущий момент все это почти нереально, на грани авантюры. Нужно было делать это раньше - но очень постепенно, увязывая шаги по подобной интеграции с поведением "западных партнеров". Ввели ребята санкции - получите референдум о присоединении . Ввели еще - получите партию военной техники переданной ополченцам . И так далее . Но все это нужно было реализовывать со старта - сейчас момент упущен ,мы откровенно напропускали сотни оплеух как украины ,так и запада ,не воспользовавшись кипишем.
    1. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 16: 38 New
      +5
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Экономически,внешнеполитически ,с точки зрения обороны - все это сейчас "не в тему". Нам пришлось бы выстраивать и оборудовать сотни километров границы ,передислоцировать на эти территории военные части и инфраструктуру - все это было бы до боли похоже на ту ошибку,которую мы совершали перед Великой Отечественной .Этим людям пришлось бы выплачивать пенсию (из каких фондов ?) ,лечить и учить их , организовывать строительство и восстановление домов и инфраструктуры (и финансирование этого,опять таки -из каких фондов ?) - в условиях примера активного применения санкций ко всему,что работает по Крыму.
      На очередное брыкание копытом и обстрелы придется отвечать уже росс.армии и пограничникам ,в Киеве все это явно прибавит очков "партии войны" . Под этим соусом США и Ко мигом проведут все пока еще буксующие санкции ,скорее всего еще эффективнее отрубящие нас от дохода и контактов с ЕС. То есть денег станет еще меньше .

      В общем на текущий момент все это почти нереально, на грани авантюры. Нужно было делать это раньше - но очень постепенно, увязывая шаги по подобной интеграции с поведением "западных партнеров". Ввели ребята санкции - получите референдум о присоединении . Ввели еще - получите партию военной техники переданной ополченцам . И так далее . Но все это нужно было реализовывать со старта - сейчас момент упущен ,мы откровенно напропускали сотни оплеух как украины ,так и запада ,не воспользовавшись кипишем.

      Shaw, I’m very worried that Ukraine is ready to at least a dozen shells in the direction of Russia - to bullet its lands and territories wassat The Chinese have tried in due time - remember what happened ?! repeat
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 18 July 2020 16: 42 New
        0
        Ready in 2016, even saboteurs attacked Crimea, Boats last year
        1. Virus-free crown
          Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 16: 49 New
          +2
          Quote: Kronos
          Ready in 2016, even saboteurs attacked Crimea, Boats last year

          Открываю баночку "Клинского" и пачку попкорна drinks How many and when did Ukraine fire shells on the territory of the Russian Federation and what calibers ?! bully
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 18 July 2020 17: 20 New
            +2
            Several people killed in 2016 is not enough?
            1. Virus-free crown
              Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 17: 21 New
              -1
              Quote: Kronos
              Several people killed in 2016 is not enough?

              Facts in the studio, pliz !!!
              1. Kronos
                Kronos 18 July 2020 17: 23 New
                0
                https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2016/08/10/10115933.shtml
                1. Virus-free crown
                  Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 17: 26 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kronos
                  https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2016/08/10/10115933.shtml

                  The article is not about the topic of our discussion with you! hi
                  I asked a direct question - give examples that the APU drove its artillery to the border with the Russian Federation and fired on the territory of the Russian Federation insolently and with impunity!
                  1. Kronos
                    Kronos 18 July 2020 17: 28 New
                    0
                    That is, if they kill people without shells and artillery, is everything normal?
                    1. Virus-free crown
                      Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 17: 44 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Kronos
                      That is, if they kill people without shells and artillery, is everything normal?

                      Almost all countries of the world at all times, on the territory of foreign states, carry out their policy through their special services, for this purpose ...

                      Но об этом не пишут и не говорят и всячески отрицают... "Работа такая" wassat даже "повангую" - и через 100 лет так будет )))

                      а вот... акт прямой агрессии против другого гос-ва... тут надо иметь стальные "яйца Фэберже" laughing otherwise, the answer may come, as the Chinese once received ... drinks
                  2. New Year day
                    New Year day 18 July 2020 17: 48 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Corona without virus
                    give examples that the APU drove its artillery to the border with the Russian Federation and fired on the territory of the Russian Federation insolently and with impunity

                    killed our citizens do not care how the shell flew in and killed them. The main thing is that he flew in and killed.
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 18 July 2020 17: 46 New
        +5
        Quote: Corona without virus
        The Chinese have tried in due time - remember what happened ?!

        want to compare the capabilities of the USSR and modern Russia? laughing

        Quote: Corona without virus
        Ukraine is ready to fire at least a dozen shells in the direction of Russia - to fire its lands and territories

        it happened more than once. There were those killed on our side and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was involved. and nothing!
        1. Virus-free crown
          Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 17: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: Silvestr
          Quote: Corona without virus
          The Chinese have tried in due time - remember what happened ?!

          want to compare the capabilities of the USSR and modern Russia? laughing

          Quote: Corona without virus
          Ukraine is ready to fire at least a dozen shells in the direction of Russia - to fire its lands and territories

          it happened more than once. There were those killed on our side and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was involved. and nothing!

          I’ll clarify again !!! hi
          Let's separate the cases when the APU fired at the Donbass (and there were random missile flights to the territory of the Russian Federation) - and the cases - as with China - when one country officially and purposefully fired at the territory of another state-va! tongue
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 18 July 2020 18: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: Corona without virus
            Let's separate the cases when the APU fired at the Donbass (and there were random missile flights to the territory of the Russian Federation)

            для начала вам нужно доказать, что снаряды с территории Украины к нам залетели "случайно". Поскольку вы и я это не можем ни подтвердить, ни опровергнуть, то дальнейший спор бессмысленен.
            He flew in, he killed. Point.
      3. Octopus
        Octopus 18 July 2020 20: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: Corona without virus
        The Chinese have tried in due time - remember what happened ?!

        We got our islands back, so it's a good topic.

        Another question is that Ukraine is a little bit not China militarily (and politically, which is more important). The commentator said rightly above. A military solution to the CADLO problem involves the destruction of the 8th Guards Army of the RF Armed Forces. The current Armed Forces of Ukraine from the formulation of such tasks are quite far. Not to mention actually solving this problem.
        1. Liam
          Liam 18 July 2020 20: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: Octopus
          the destruction of the 8th GVA Armed Forces

          On the street 2020 and not 2014. The fog of the Russian world has dispersed thoroughly along with the quotes of the barrel of oil. About the future with another secretary general, there is nothing to say
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 18 July 2020 20: 43 New
            0
            Quote: Liam
            along with quotes of a barrel of oil. About the future with another secretary general

            Let me remind you that at a completely different price of a barrel, when, frankly, many had nothing to eat, and with a completely different general secretary, a big, they say, a democrat, heroic RUSSIAN WARS heroically freed not from imaginary, but from quite real NATO SOLDIER some hole in Serbia. So one should not overestimate the rationality and commercialism of the Russian side. Put your trust in God, but keep your powder dry, so to speak.
            1. Liam
              Liam 18 July 2020 20: 52 New
              0
              If you are talking about a TV show with a Pristina airport, then as far as I know, Pristina continues to be part of Kosovo, and Kosovo continues to be not part of Serbia.
              I don’t remember the bloody battles for its (airport) liberation from the Russian soldiers, as well as any real exhaust from this strategic television operation. How much by the way did the Russian soldiers retreat with such a hard-occupied object?)
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 18 July 2020 21: 04 New
                0
                Quote: Liam
                continues to be not part of Serbia.

                So the Russian spring, as you noted earlier, did not work out. But this does not change the fact that economic reasons do not guarantee that the Russian side will refuse military adventures.

                However, Si vis pacem, para bellum is not said about Russia.
                1. Liam
                  Liam 18 July 2020 21: 20 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Octopus
                  adventure

                  I did not confirm this. 2014 is a clear example of this. But to say that the condition of a military solution only through the corpse of 8 GvA is controversial. By this, the adventures are excluded from long-term strategies that 180 degree turns, depending on the fluctuations of the party line-norm
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus 18 July 2020 22: 22 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Liam
                    But to say that the condition of a military solution only through the corpse of 8 GvA is controversial

                    Here you need to understand correctly.
                    1. Should we expect the RF Armed Forces to intervene in the event of a military solution to the problem? With a 90% probability, no. Ukraine cannot afford a military solution for completely different reasons.
                    2. Can Ukraine afford a military solution, not being ready for an escalation of the conflict according to scenario 080808, even if it is 10%? In my opinion, no, for Georgia it did not end well. Russia does not lose anything in the event of the closure of ORDLO, but for Ukraine the new Debaltseve is highly undesirable.
                    1. Liam
                      Liam 18 July 2020 22: 49 New
                      +1
                      Гибридные события последних лет показывают что кто первым встал-того и тапки.Кто первым делает "шаг"-за тем и победа(по крайней мере медийная краткострочная.Взял нахрапом Крым пока все дома-военной ответки не будет.Решился стереть в пыль пару сотен ихтамнетов в Сирии-ответки не будет.Решился сбить военный самолет ядерной державы-ответка помидоры.
                      Therefore, given serious guarantees for Ukraine, the military option is not so fantastic. It is clear that many factors must converge.
                      1. Octopus
                        Octopus 18 July 2020 23: 10 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        Therefore, given serious guarantees for Ukraine, the military option is not so fantastic. It is clear that many factors must converge.

                        I think I was a bit confused.
                        1. The more time passes, the more obvious that neither Donbass, nor even Crimea, can be Ukrainian. Worse, the idea of ​​New Russia is absolutely correct - it is impossible to create a Ukrainian state within the current borders. Yes, in the beginning, on emotions, APU tried to recapture the Donbass. Not repelled, and glory to Ukraine, glory to the heroes.
                        For this reason, any government in Kiev will behave towards Donbass in exactly the same way as Zelensky and Poroshenko - they will not decide anything. Had to would decide if the issue of NATO and the EU was serious, but you should not even dream about that now. So the option of Ukrainian Transnistria / Abkhazia suits everyone.

                        2. The task of the Ukrainian people at this historical stage is, obviously, not the return of something there, but the creation of the Ukrainian state. Now it still does not exist, and the chances of its creation are minimal. Too badly Ukraine separated from the USSR, the overwhelming majority of Ukrainian citizens are not Ukrainians, respectively, for 30 years in a row the country's leadership has been only from anti-Ukrainian figures. Both Crimea and the Donbass within Ukraine can only worsen this situation - the population of these territories does not consider and obviously will never consider themselves Ukrainians.

                        3. When and if some other imaginary Ukraine decides to end it - the option of a major war with Russia should be considered as basic, regardless of its probability. Only a readiness for such a war (including, of course, the return of nuclear status) can guarantee that the problem of the Ordlo will be resolved relatively peacefully. As far as I know, Mr. Zelensky is infinitely far from such a formulation of the question. What is worse, his voters are infinitely far from such a question.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Therefore, with serious guarantees for Ukraine

                        Serious guarantees are the appearance in those places 5 and 7 of the US Army Corps. For a number of reasons, even less is believed in this than in Ukraine as a state of Ukrainians.
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 18 July 2020 23: 22 New
                        -1
                        I, too, probably otzumburil.My main idea was that the solution (any) Donbass issue will depend not so much on the strength of Ukraine as on the weakness of Russia.
                        Otherwise, I agree with you. I can only add that 2014 brought benefits to Ukraine. I stopped sitting on 2 chairs and helped to finally choose the direction of movement. The path is thorny, of course, especially after 20 years of marking time, but this is better than the swamp in which we were .
                        I would rule out the nuclear status of Ukraine; no one will give them the go-ahead for this for a variety of reasons.
                        By the way, there are no formal statutory documents that prevent countries with territorial problems from joining the EU and NATO.
                      3. Octopus
                        Octopus 18 July 2020 23: 40 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        the solution (any) of the Donbas issue will depend not so much on the strength of Ukraine as on the weakness of Russia.

                        Yes, but as the example with Pristina shows, it seems to me that Russia, however weak, can create too many problems not to take them into account. In general, the potential for creating problems is the only thing that Russia has and, accordingly, the only thing that it can seriously trade in the near future. Kim Sosatb.
                        Quote: Liam
                        I can only add that 2014 was also beneficial for Ukraine: I stopped sitting on 2 chairs and helped to finally choose the direction of movement.

                        Then it seemed that yes, but, alas, no. Poroshenko's presidency and especially Zelensky's elections clearly showed this.
                        Quote: Liam
                        No one will give them the go-ahead for this for a variety of reasons.

                        Who won't give it? Guarantors of the Budapest Memorandum, excuse me?

                        If you are a (relatively) small people, and around you there is an adversary that is many times superior to you, who does not recognize your right to exist, then you live either like Israel, or in no way. It is necessary to sink American ships - you sink American ships. US military aircraft and / or French missile boats must be hijacked - you do it. Let me remind you that of the countries that wanted to throw Israel into the sea in 47, every one of them either forged themselves into friends of the United States and, let's say, are ready to show understanding of Israel's position, or do not exist.

                        And those who do not want to live like Israel will live like Moldova.

                        Quote: Liam
                        There are no formal statutory documents preventing countries with territorial problems from joining the EU and NATO.

                        But there are obstacles to the entry into the EU and NATO of the scandalous thieving impotent.
                      4. Liam
                        Liam 19 July 2020 00: 31 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Pristina example

                        This is an example of how to make a lot of ado about nothing. If the reaction of Russia to the military solution from Ukraine is the same ostentatious response as in Pristina, Ukraine is on a horse.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        Zelensky

                        Everyone sees what he wants.
                        Quote: Octopus
                        or like israel

                        Or like North Korea and Iran. What option do you think Ukraine will have?
                        Quote: Octopus
                        But

                        This is a translation of the arrows already. Inelegant)
                      5. Octopus
                        Octopus 19 July 2020 01: 07 New
                        0
                        Quote: Liam
                        If the reaction of Russia to the military solution on the part of Ukraine is the same

                        You see, in Serbia, Russia had to show partners frankly, not much. That's what they could - and that was shown. Partners could cut off this shown so that it would not grow, but thanks to the gene. Jackson, the commander of the British KFOR, merged. What this ultimately led to is now known.

                        Ukraine, unfortunately, is much closer, and therefore can see much more. So, it seems to me that option 080808 should be considered as basic in any case. Moreover, even without a connection with the decision on Ordlo
                        Quote: Liam
                        Everyone sees what he wants.

                        Maybe. I see Churchill’s election of the 45th year, when the English people decided to end up with blood, sweat and tears. The difference is that Ukraine has not yet lived to the point that it was not until the 45th year, it has not survived until the 39th. And there is no English Channel, as a sin.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Or like North Korea and Iran. What option do you think Ukraine will have?

                        The same one that is now. Latin American. There is democracy, but nothing else. This is better than a purely African version of Russia, but not so much.
                        As for nuclear weapons, let me remind you that the countries you mentioned, in addition to creating nuclear weapons, like to talk about the US. Those countries that refrain from such statements could keep the whole of Bin Laden, like Pakistan at one time, there will be no complaints against them.

                        By the way, Ukraine, unlike Pakistan, India, Israel, has the corresponding technologies from the Soviet baggage and resources. So the issue can be resolved quickly and quietly. If you wish.
                        Quote: Liam
                        This is the translation of the arrows already

                        It seems to me fairly obvious that Ukraine’s accession to the EU and NATO is possible only if for some reason the EU and NATO themselves incredibly want it. I don’t see any signs yet.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 18 July 2020 21: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Octopus
          So the Russian spring, as you noted earlier, did not work out.

          она не "не задалась", а ее свернули после "фе" сказанного ЕС Путину. Согласитесь, это две большие разницы.
          1. Octopus
            Octopus 18 July 2020 22: 30 New
            +1
            Quote: Silvestr
            она не "не задалась", а ее свернули после "фе" сказанного ЕС Путину. Согласитесь, это две большие разницы.

            I already understood that, according to your version, Didier Burkhalter ended the Russian world on May 6, 2014 (Sovereignty! - they said. Get up off your knees! - they said). I recall that Boeing, Debaltseve, Mariupol happened much later than this visit. No matter what daddies they brought to the national leader, he did not behave decently.

            In my opinion, strategically The end of the Russian spring came in June 14th. This project was initially nothing more than theft in a fire, and with the arrival of Poroshenko, good or bad, the fire ended. There was no further cunning plan. The bloody flutterings indicated by me above are nothing more than rearguard fights.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 19 July 2020 08: 06 New
              +1
              Quote: Octopus
              ... Didier Burkhalter ...

              just made an offer that you couldn’t refuse
              1. Octopus
                Octopus 19 July 2020 09: 53 New
                0
                Quote: Silvestr
                just made an offer that you couldn’t refuse

                Quote: Octopus
                No matter what daddies they brought to the national leader, he did not behave decently.

  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 18 July 2020 18: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    But all this had to be implemented from the start - now the moment is missed, we frankly missed hundreds of slaps in the face of both Ukraine and the West, without taking advantage of the boil.

    This is because we did not have a new patriotic constitution. But now there is, and if that we are like wow, we hoo. laughing
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 16: 27 New
    +1
    So far, Moscow has a very cautious policy, continuing to talk about the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
    - quote from the article

    Какая нафик территориальная целостность Украины - если мы уже Крым "отжали"??? Хуже санкций, чем счас - не будет!!! Давайте и Донбасс в себя возьмем - там наш народ!!! drinks
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 18 July 2020 17: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Corona without virus
      если мы уже Крым "отжали"???

      thieves' jargon !. Let me remind you that a referendum was held in Crimea, at which the overwhelming majority of citizens voted to join Russia. Or was it not?
      Quote: Corona without virus
      Worse sanctions than Wait - will not be !!!

      where such confidence? The fall in GDP now, including from sanctions, and the main task of the authorities is to minimize the economic effect of sanctions. This is possible only with a favorable solution to the LPR issue. In addition to the sanctions, there are also new sanctions, including the embargo on the sale of hydrocarbons. Reform of the UN Security Council and the loss of veto are also possible. And this is much more expensive for the state than LDNR. request
    2. ANB
      ANB 18 July 2020 22: 57 New
      +1
      . если мы уже Крым "отжали"?

      With Crimea everything went according to plan. And preparation, and a referendum, and the development of the territory and economy.
      And there were no plans to do with Donbass.
  • mag nit
    mag nit 18 July 2020 16: 29 New
    0
    Late. The time has not come yet.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 18 July 2020 17: 04 New
    0
    3 prerequisites - economics, law and responsible authority in the Russian Federation. The rest is blablabla.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 18: 04 New
    0
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: Corona without virus
    если мы уже Крым "отжали"???

    thieves' jargon !. Let me remind you that a referendum was held in Crimea, at which the overwhelming majority of citizens voted to join Russia. Or was it not?
    Quote: Corona without virus
    Worse sanctions than Wait - will not be !!!

    where such confidence? The fall in GDP now, including from sanctions, and the main task of the authorities is to minimize the economic effect of sanctions. This is possible only with a favorable solution to the LPR issue. In addition to the sanctions, there are also new sanctions, including the embargo on the sale of hydrocarbons. Reform of the UN Security Council and the loss of veto are also possible. And this is much more expensive for the state than LDNR. request

    I remind you that almost at the same time in the republics of Donbass referendums were held and they then voted the hedgehog to enter the Russian Federation !!! hi
    But the question is - why did we not take them to our structure as Crimea?

    Вопрос, можете считать, шкурным - почему одни мои родственники из Крыма стали гражданами РФ в составе РФ - а другие мои же такие же любимые родственниками стали "людьми третьего сорта"?! am

    Почему в Крым были "отправлены в отпуск" силы спецназа РФ в полной боевой готовности, что бы референдум в Крыму состоялся без проблем? А в ЛНДР такого не было? А...? drinks
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 18 July 2020 22: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: Corona without virus
      and then they voted a hedgehog to enter the Russian Federation !!!


      as you can see, the question was posed differently, and a certain Putin asked not to hold any referendum at all

      Quote: Corona without virus
      Почему в Крым были "отправлены в отпуск" силы спецназа РФ в полной боевой готовности, что бы референдум в Крыму состоялся без проблем? А в ЛНДР такого не было? А...?

      так референдум в ЛДНР таки состоялся и без "зеленых человечков"
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 18 July 2020 18: 22 New
    +3
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: Corona without virus
    Let's separate the cases when the APU fired at the Donbass (and there were random missile flights to the territory of the Russian Federation)

    для начала вам нужно доказать, что снаряды с территории Украины к нам залетели "случайно". Поскольку вы и я это не можем ни подтвердить, ни опровергнуть, то дальнейший спор бессмысленен.
    He flew in, he killed. Point.

    I read your posts very carefully and respect you !!! drinks
    Только есть у меня одно свойство характера - я "за правду" - какой она не была бы!!! good
    Therefore, I cannot remain silent here either wassat
    Let's take a look at the facts !!! drinks
    Одно дело - нецеленаправленный удар случайными снарядами по территории РФ со стороны ВСУ - и другое дело - пригнали полк ВСУ к границе - полк отстрелялся по РФ - в Украине все бандеровцы на ушах стоят от счастья = а РФ "умылась"... было такое или нет?! bully
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 18 July 2020 21: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: Corona without virus
      я "за правду" - какой она не была бы!!

      I also
      Quote: Corona without virus
      Одно дело - нецеленаправленный удар случайными снарядами по территории РФ со стороны ВСУ - и другое дело - пригнали полк ВСУ к границе - полк отстрелялся по РФ - в Украине все бандеровцы на ушах стоят от счастья = а РФ "умылась"... было такое или нет?!

      big starts small. This is exactly what APU is being prepared for, pumped up and armed with. A gun on a nail so to speak. hi
  • cniza
    cniza 18 July 2020 19: 14 New
    +1
    Perhaps, while the time has not come yet to declare your position on the Donbass.


    We just don't know a lot, but politics is a very dirty and cynical thing ...
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 18 July 2020 19: 28 New
    +2
    What can I say about this?
    I can not say anything.
    He said what he wanted twenty-seven times.
    Next, let Moscow decide.
    By the way, I haven't really heard the opinion of the republics.
  • vargo
    vargo 19 July 2020 00: 05 New
    -3
    And for me, the Kremlin has taken the path of a slow but systematic integration of the region into its economic and political realities. When the region begins to live actively like a part of Russia, when the border is even more stable, then this region (if Ukraine does not come to its senses) will probably decide in fact to be recognized as part of Russia. However, this will not be such a serious blow to the economy. They will give autonomy, and the region will gradually continue to integrate further. Here the game is long, and most importantly, purely technically, and Ukraine still has a chance of peace and return (they say he always had), and there will always be a chance to integrate, and peacefully again (after a lot of time then) and, in fact, in fact, has its own region .
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 19 July 2020 00: 21 New
    0
    It has long been clear that there will be no entry. Buffer zones for many years. Winding all the nerves with them is much more convenient ....

    И сколько простора для фантазий "експертов"
  • Dmitry10SPb
    Dmitry10SPb 19 July 2020 00: 49 New
    -1
    This is impossible. At least five obstacles.
    1. Economic. The likelihood of sanctions for border violations in Europe. They will lead to a drop in living standards and the economy as a whole. This means total sanctions. Like those under which now Iran.
    2. Economic. The need for multi-billion dollar tranches to restore the economy of Donbass. If you attach, then make a showcase out of it. There many factories sawn into metal. There are no such funds in the budget. We're not that rich.
    3. Legal. Russia is the legal successor of the USSR. This means that we inherit not only goodies, but also limitations. If the communists gave it away, they gave it away. There is no need to stir up the past. And then a lot of things will come out there.
    4. Foreign policy. All the republics of the former USSR bordering on us will not understand this. Who is next? Who should throw themselves into their arms - Beijing, Washington or Brussels?
    5. Internal political. While the people look like biathlon. He is sick of his own people, but detached. When they see that external activity is directly related to the lack of money in the family, then the president’s rating will fly out. First they cheer, of course, but then they will see. Prices in the store from Krymnash to this day have more than doubled. After that they will grow tenfold. And here everything rests on the president. Does he need this out?
    We have done the maximum for the republics. The rest is fantasy and illusion.
  • Bat039
    Bat039 19 July 2020 10: 38 New
    +1
    Donbass is a part of Russia temporarily occupied by Ukraine and it must return to Russia. The genocide of the Russian people and Russophobia must be suppressed by the most severe measures!
  • Semenov
    Semenov 19 July 2020 10: 56 New
    +1
    Вероятно, варианты развития событий по ЛДНР не только в Инете с дивана рассчитывают, но и серьезные люди в Кремле (и вопрос конкретно вентилируют). Сценарий 08.08.08 - притягателен. А там посмотреть, кто в Одессе на фонарях будет висеть. И Украина - чемодан без ручки - западным "братьям по разуму" она не нужна, а нам такой "разум" и подавно.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 19 July 2020 15: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: Corona without virus
    я "за правду" - какой она не была бы!!

    I also
    Quote: Corona without virus
    Одно дело - нецеленаправленный удар случайными снарядами по территории РФ со стороны ВСУ - и другое дело - пригнали полк ВСУ к границе - полк отстрелялся по РФ - в Украине все бандеровцы на ушах стоят от счастья = а РФ "умылась"... было такое или нет?!

    big starts small. It is for this that the APU is being prepared, pumped up and armed. A gun on a nail so to speak. hi

    Then I'll clarify what I WANTED to say in my posts !!! hi drinks
    Одно дело - "когда мелкие шавки вякаяют из-под воротни" - другое дело, на поле брани брани Богатыри выходят друг против друга по законам чести... так понятнее? drinks
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 19 July 2020 15: 22 New
    -2
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: Corona without virus
    and then they voted a hedgehog to enter the Russian Federation !!!


    as you can see, the question was posed differently, and a certain Putin asked not to hold any referendum at all

    Quote: Corona without virus
    Почему в Крым были "отправлены в отпуск" силы спецназа РФ в полной боевой готовности, что бы референдум в Крыму состоялся без проблем? А в ЛНДР такого не было? А...?

    так референдум в ЛДНР таки состоялся и без "зеленых человечков"


    Well, firstly - the vote was FOR independence from Ukraine - and then there was a request for Donbass to join the Russian Federation - I know firsthand, my relatives live there !!! good
    For the people of Donbass, the Nazis from the western regions of Ukraine are the same as for the inhabitants of Russia the stubborn Bandera = 1: 1

    А во вторых, это я лично хорошо знаю законы РФ - и меня минусуют за каждый пост, когда я пытаюсь говорить по закону = "Закон суров - но он закон" (с) wassat And the residents of Donbass wanted to say by their choice - that they are NOT on the way with Ukraine !!! good
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 19 July 2020 15: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: ANB
    . если мы уже Крым "отжали"?

    With Crimea everything went according to plan. And preparation, and a referendum, and the development of the territory and economy.
    And there were no plans to do with Donbass.

    And what, tell me, do Russians differ in their spirit? type lived in the Crimea-our Russians to the bone marrow, and those who lived in the Donbass-the dregs of society ???
  • Donchanka
    Donchanka 19 July 2020 16: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Boris55
    "Численность населения ЛДНР порядка двух миллионов. Из них российские паспорта получили порядка 100 тысяч. Это 20% включая тех, у кого не осталось ни какого другого выбора т.е. порядка 20% населения ЛДНР хотят вступить в состав России, а что будем делать с оставшимися 80% населения?
    The fact that LDNR leaders need a roof in the form of Russia is understandable, but the people are somehow not very happy. A referendum on this issue has not yet been held, is it because the result is known?
    Не получится ли так, что днём 20% будут встречать нас со цветами, а по ночам 80% втыкать нам в спину нож?" По пунктам. 1. Население ЛНР на 1. 09. 2019 1447992 человека, население ДНР на октябрь 2019 г. ( перепись) 2 270 939 человек. 2. Вопрос о референдуме был закрыт в 2014 г., запретили. 3. Прежде чем подать документы на российский паспорт, необходимо получить республиканский. На его получение очередь уже на следующий год. Почему медленно выдаются наши паспорта - вопросы не ко мне. Очень тщательно проверяется каждый, что существенно тормозит скорость получения. Плюс к этому - необходимо получать свидетельства о смене фамилии, разводе и пр. местного образца. Там тоже очереди, да ещё и не каждый имеет возможность постоянно отпрашиваться с работы. Так что, уважаемый, не нужно всё валить в одну кучу. Быстрее, цифры будут наоборот, 80 % будут встречать с цветами. Тем более, при таком активном "проявлении" любви со стороны Украины, тут даже те, кто проявлял к ней симпатию, стали её активными противниками.
  • Andrey Vasilievich
    Andrey Vasilievich 19 July 2020 17: 00 New
    -3
    I think that the Russian Federation will not accept the LDNR as a member.
    In Ukraine, everything is going to the point that in the next presidential and parliamentary elections, OLE will win, or what will be there at that time. That is, the forces are ready to move towards rapprochement with Russia. It is already under the rule of these forces, and the return of Donbass to Ukraine will take place. And whether these elections will be timely or early - I do not know.
    Но народ Украины, голосуя за Зеленского и "слугу народа", показал что именно окончание войны, уголовные наказания предыдущей власти и устранение разгула нацистов, это то чего хочет народ и за что он голосовал.
    Another thing is that the Green Prezik and his gang simply brazenly deceived their voters.
    1. Larisa Byvsheva_3
      Larisa Byvsheva_3 22 July 2020 18: 35 New
      -1
      Nonsense!
  • bulava
    bulava 20 July 2020 10: 17 New
    -4
    Why is it needed now? At the moment we are satisfied with the Transnistrian-Abkhazian scenario. The buffer territory, which is not ours de jure, but ours de facto. Less stench from all sorts of rotting. With Crimea, this would not have happened due to its extremely important military importance. If the GDP manages to strengthen the economy of the Russian Federation, to cleanse the government of an unreliable element, to optimize the regions, then it will be possible to annex all the former republics in bulk. Yes, they themselves will want it.
    1. Larisa Byvsheva_3
      Larisa Byvsheva_3 22 July 2020 18: 31 New
      0
      Вот поставят американцы свои базы на границе ДНР,если мы их не удержим, и будет вам по-настоящему "крайне важное военное значение"!
    2. Larisa Byvsheva_3
      Larisa Byvsheva_3 22 July 2020 18: 33 New
      -1
      Кого это "нас устраивает"?!
      Who are you ?! Where do you live?!
  • gurzuf
    gurzuf 20 July 2020 13: 11 New
    0
    Three prerequisites? And I thought that only one was our people and they want to live in Russia. Everything else (the history of these lands, passports, etc.) is secondary.
  • barin
    barin 20 July 2020 20: 33 New
    11
    If Donbass is increasingly breaking away from Ukraine and integrating with the Russian Federation, then the answer suggests itself. Not with current presidents of course.
  • lirik
    lirik 20 July 2020 22: 29 New
    0
    And I imagine the future of Donbass in this way ... Of course, in the very near future, Donetsk and Luhansk regions will hold a referendum and become part of Russia. Next will be Nikolaev, Kherson, Odessa, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk and Sumy. The wait is not long. And what is more, everything will be done with decorum and dust-free.
    1. your1970
      your1970 20 July 2020 22: 59 New
      0
      Quote: lirik
      Next will be Nikolaev, Kherson, Odessa, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk and Sumy
      -деловито- "Already режут бандеровцев/тербаты/ПС??!!".....
      Until they are baked in such a way - that for SUGS they will be lifted on the pitchfork right there, and the Terbat workers will be hung in the squares - then, perhaps, they will be drawn to Russia. Earlier - definitely not ...
      In any case, at least 5-10 years
  • Larisa Byvsheva_3
    Larisa Byvsheva_3 22 July 2020 18: 26 New
    -1
    If, yes, how would ...
    And so, of course, the time has not come yet! Once, Petya Po-Roshen-ko said that this was a war for decades and, after all, he, whore, was right !!!
    1. Vestnik
      Vestnik 22 July 2020 18: 39 New
      -3
      Quote: Larisa Byvsheva_3
      If, yes, how would ...
      And so, of course, the time has not come yet! Once, Petya Po-Roshen-ko said that this was a war for decades and, after all, he, whore, was right !!!

      Your Waltzman is lying ..! Russia will slam the outskirts in one fell swoop, but the time has not yet come .. Let them feel the difference first, they are Europe or nobody!
      1. Larisa Byvsheva_3
        Larisa Byvsheva_3 22 July 2020 18: 51 New
        0
        I FSUs what a difference they feel about! The main and sad thing, unnecessary for ordinary people of Donbass, when the roof of their house is pierced by a Ukrainian mine of 120 caliber
        1. Vestnik
          Vestnik 22 July 2020 20: 03 New
          0
          Quote: Larisa Byvsheva_3
          I FSUs what a difference they feel about! The main and sad thing, unnecessary for ordinary people of Donbass, when the roof of their house is pierced by a Ukrainian mine of 120 caliber

          Well I understood everything. And then I took you for Svidomo .. I apologize to Larissa love
          It's just that there are so many of them divorced and very cleverly disguised as all
  • Anatoly Lavritov
    Anatoly Lavritov 24 July 2020 10: 09 New
    0
    The defeat of the Russian Empire, which began in February 1917, was painful, since the nationalism of the outskirts was tearing for centuries the established economic, cultural and family ties of peoples integrated into the life of a huge country. For example, it is worth looking at the Russian railways from West to East and from North to South Their colleague did not allow trains from Europe to move along the Russian Railways without replacing wheelsets. This situation persists to this day. And if you look at the Donbass, then there was the densest railway network. When the USSR was created, which included the Ukrainian SSR to Little Russia was attached to the strong-willed decision of the region of Novorossia with a purely Russian population in order for the essentially rural Little Russia to have industry and the working class (proletariat) as a support of Soviet power.
  • Anatoly Lavritov
    Anatoly Lavritov 24 July 2020 10: 29 New
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    Continuation - And if it were not for the counterrevolutionary events of 1991-1993, there would be no need to tear apart the country along the administrative borders, but also to experience a lot of difficulties in the implementation of economic, cultural and political ties with all corners of the once large country. Slowly but persistently, Russia is fighting not only for its sovereignty, but is also moving in small steps to return its lands with the economic structure serving it. And this process will be continued by our ancestors not with fire and sword, but with a good soul and cordiality. Motherland never will not reject his sons and daughters!