Military Review

Ship engines from the German company MTU massively fail

49
Ship engines from the German company MTU massively fail

Engines of high-speed patrol boats, recently modernized in the interests of the South Korean fleetmassively fail.


Earlier this year, there was a breakdown of the cylinder head of the engine of a Humdoksuri-B class missile patrol boat of medium radius, weighing 230 tons. Soon after, this problem was discovered on three other boats of this type.

The State Arms Procurement Agency on Thursday said that flaws allowed in the design of the power plant could be a possible cause of the breakdown. Investigators also find out if the ingress of sea water and the transportation of excessively heavy loads could lead to engine malfunctions.

It is suspected that seawater is the cause of the engine breakdown, but we must confirm the exact cause of the problem after examining the design to see if it is actually causing the problem.

- stated in the military department of the country.

Gumdoksuri class boats have a combined diesel-gas-turbine power plant (CODAG). It is represented by two diesel engines and ship gas turbines General Electric LM500. The power plants were supplied by the German company Motoren und Turbinen-Union (MTU) and were designed for approximately 5600 hp.

Earlier, before the imposition of sanctions in 2014, this company worked out orders of the Russian military shipbuilding. Its power plants were equipped with various types of ships - both boats and corvettes.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 17 July 2020 05: 11
    +8
    Earlier, before the imposition of sanctions in 2014, this company worked out orders of the Russian military shipbuilding. Its power plants were equipped with various types of ships - both boats and corvettes.
    and now they are largely Chinese, but again, released using MTU technologies. Just now think, is it a design flaw or "crooked hands" of those who assembled, installed or operated them?
    1. Shurik70
      Shurik70 17 July 2020 07: 22
      +4
      Investigators also find out if ... transportation of excessively heavy loads could lead to engine malfunction

      I am not an expert, but at first glance it’s nonsense.
      It is in land transport that you can disrupt the engine by overloading. What about the sea? There, the motor rotates the screw, and the resistance of the screw is water. That the loaded ship that is empty - still the load on the motor will be the same.
      1. D16
        D16 17 July 2020 07: 51
        +3
        at first glance nonsense.

        IMHO cant auto-translation.
        the load on the motor will be the same

        Perhaps we are talking about too long work at maximum speed. A diesel engine is much more economical than a gas turbine, that's why they try not to use it, but which Korean does not like fast driving laughing .
      2. Rzzz
        Rzzz 17 July 2020 08: 42
        +2
        Quote: Shurik70
        That the loaded ship that is empty - still the load on the motor will be the same.

        Oh, it’s not so simple .. only relatively recently learned to fully simulate the screw in water in different modes, and before that the calculations were carried out according to empirical formulas using a bunch of correction factors, and were APPROXIMATE, although quite accurate.

        Quote: D16
        Perhaps we are talking about too long work at maximum speed

        Marine diesel, unlike automotive, is designed to operate at 100% load in a constant mode.

        I see a problem either in marriage, sometimes even in monsters.
        Or in violation of service regulations.
        Or saving on consumables.
        1. orionvitt
          orionvitt 17 July 2020 09: 53
          +1
          Quote: rzzz
          only relatively recently have learned how to fully simulate the operation of the propeller in water at different modes,

          I can learn to model recently, but I don’t agree about imperial formulas. They worked in the field. Hydrodynamics, in the same TsAGI, engaged in a very long time. They even built a hydro-channel, back in 1925. And the behavior of the medium in liquids and gases, absolutely identical, is described by the same equations, the difference is only in density.
          1. 16329
            16329 17 July 2020 15: 14
            0
            Empirical formulas
          2. Rzzz
            Rzzz 17 July 2020 19: 16
            +1
            Actually, my morning post was about different at different speeds and at different downloads. For this, sometimes special measures are taken on ships. For example, on some river pushers there are two-speed reverse gears, there is the first speed for the loaded train, and the second speed for the empty or for the pusher without the train.
            I apologize for having messed up, I didn’t have time to fix it.

            For this, they built a hydrochannel, which could not theoretically count the screws. I had to simulate and experiment.
            Water, in general, is a very tricky substance that does not behave exactly like any decent liquid should behave. And these small differences did not allow to calculate the screw qualitatively only according to theoretical formulas. Some garbage turned out.
  2. Nevsky_ZU
    Nevsky_ZU 17 July 2020 05: 25
    +1
    Burger, not the same.
    1. polar fox
      polar fox 17 July 2020 09: 20
      +5
      Quote: Nevsky_ZU
      Burger, not the same.

      et for sure ... judging by the products of BMW ... breakdowns. like a bucket from a new technology. what moto, what a car.
  3. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 17 July 2020 06: 18
    +7
    Burger, not the same.
    No, the townspeople are still the same, as are the German hard workers. The culture of production, punctuality remains the same quality of the German industry. Most likely the Koreans violated the rules of operation, which led to a breakdown and not on one boat.
    1. Tank jacket
      Tank jacket 17 July 2020 08: 11
      -2
      I’ll fix it a bit, the townspeople are the same, I agree, but more stringent environmental and fuel consumption requirements are coming into force, in connection with this the engine design becomes more complicated (capricious) more demanding for fuel and oil, more light and compact, and therefore less durable ...
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 17 July 2020 17: 17
      +1
      The engine must:
      1. Have the highest specific parameters and at the same time a huge resource
      2. Eat and not choke on the fuel and oil itself, hmm., Of different quality
      3. Have a mode switch shoulders / buttocks (according to where the hands of the mechanic grow)
  4. Bashkirkhan
    Bashkirkhan 17 July 2020 06: 25
    +5
    On June 1, the lead frontier patrol ship of Project 22460 Rubin appeared in Sochi, earlier in May it "lit up" during exercises at the Crimean bridge. For the last five years "Rubin" has been staying in Temryuk without a break - according to rumors, due to the failure of one of the main MTU diesel engines installed on it, to which the Germans refused to supply spare parts due to sanctions. As a result, as you can see, the problem was somehow solved.
    1. avia12005
      avia12005 17 July 2020 06: 37
      -1
      In the 90s there was a case when a friend of mine, out of his own stupidity, cracked the head of the dvigun block on a "Merc". The new one with delivery was estimated at several thousand "green" ones. The peasant was seized by a toad and he turned to one of our defense factories through pull, where they made him the same in a week, but even better and much cheaper, it cost a table in a pub and a bonus for those who did fellow ... Such are the things
      1. Gargantua
        Gargantua 17 July 2020 08: 02
        +2
        Quote: avia12005
        In the 90s there was a case

        Oh, these tales! Oh, these storytellers! smile
        1. avia12005
          avia12005 17 July 2020 08: 55
          +2
          Have you dealt with production? What is difficult in the presence of equipment and hands growing from that place to make a block head?
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 17 July 2020 08: 26
      +3
      Therefore, pr.22460 will no longer be laid. By the way, the Chinese also tried. Not really. Resumed bookmarks pr.10410.
      1. Bashkirkhan
        Bashkirkhan 17 July 2020 08: 32
        0
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Resumed bookmarks pr.10410.

        As I understand it, different ships with different characteristics are needed to perform different tasks. PSKR project 22460 ship of the 2nd rank with a displacement of 670 tons. PSKR project 10410 3rd-class ship with a displacement of 375 tons. And so, 10410 is a proven project, with 2 nautical boats and corresponding SPU for them.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 17 July 2020 08: 47
          +2
          Yes, there are not the same tasks. Our hunter was walking as a replacement for Project 10410. On / and do not look.
          There is a clear line 205P-10410-22460. But something went wrong. The office flirted with ideas about a purely police service in civilian suits. And now even a decision has been made to return the AK-176 to ships. New buildings in the sense of ... As a result of the use of Chinese MTU, it was decided not to mess with them ..
          1. Bashkirkhan
            Bashkirkhan 17 July 2020 08: 55
            0
            The 10410 ship is good, and after some adjustments to the initial design, it fully meets modern requirements. They decided to return the 3-inch after the incident with Ukrainian boats.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 July 2020 09: 51
              +2
              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              They decided to return the 3-inch model after the incident with Ukrainian boats.


              Wow, they saw the light ....
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 17 July 2020 10: 32
        +1
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Therefore, pr.22460 will no longer be laid. By the way, the Chinese also tried. Not really. Resumed bookmarks pr.10410.

        EMNIP, the refusal to continue purchases of project 22460 was due to the fact that the ships, in fact, were left without a "long arm". The main advantage of the 22460 was the helicopter and the UAV. In theory. Because in practice, all the delivery dates for the Ka-226 were disrupted, and the Austrian Horizon, after 2014, was covered with a copper basin.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 17 July 2020 10: 44
          0
          Even I don’t understand what’s happening with the Ka-226, are they being mass-produced there?
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 17 July 2020 10: 50
            +1
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Even I don’t understand what’s happening with the Ka-226, are they being mass-produced there?

            And the fact that the first serial ship-borne Ka-226 was received by the FSB only at the end of March 2017, despite the fact that the head "pebble" of the faces was accepted already in 2009.
            Not surprisingly, in 2014, faces began to order "Fireflies".
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 July 2020 10: 52
              +2
              So I saw it. And what about the placement of helicopters on ships. Something I didn't see a photo of where the Ka-226 was on the deck ...
              1. Bashkirkhan
                Bashkirkhan 17 July 2020 11: 09
                0
                A search party from a helicopter is nonsense, and in the case of an assault party, it is nonsense already Ka-226 itself.
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 17 July 2020 11: 18
                  +1
                  Helicopters from us (marine border guard) flew purely for the opening of the area and aerial reconnaissance. It is possible to perform rescue operations.
                  We (the marine border guard) had Ka-25s flying until the 90s with 97P, and Ka-27s fly to this day from 1135P
    3. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 17 July 2020 11: 23
      +3
      Even the great and terrible Zumwalt had problems with cooling the engines while passing the Panama Canal. Something led them there. As if the Americans forgot that after the sea water, having entered the fresh Panama Canal, everything that grew in the pipes to the heat exchangers falls off and blocks the passage of sea water. and a kerdy ​​to the engine comes, if the automatic does not work, but according to Murphy's law it will definitely not work. With Korean boats, as if the hand of the underwater special forces Eun, the Kingston's receiving grilles with oysters caulked. floor."
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. The comment was deleted.
  5. mark2
    mark2 17 July 2020 06: 34
    -1
    Well, the hands-on Germans can do nothing to the end and normally. Many people are fond of design. All their equipment can only work under ideal conditions. Even military equipment is not reliable. But how beautiful it looks.
    1. mdsr
      mdsr 17 July 2020 06: 40
      -1
      Quote: mark2
      Well, the hands-on Germans can do nothing to the end and normally.

      And then who, in your opinion, has gold pens in the world, even if the Germans are hand-made? belay
      1. mark2
        mark2 17 July 2020 06: 51
        +1
        Yes, no one. There are only myths about quality.
        The old technique, although not modern and looking unpresentable, still works. Because it is made by engineers, not designers.
        1. mdsr
          mdsr 17 July 2020 07: 03
          +1
          I do not agree. Nowadays, the concept of quality has changed a bit. The fact is that today almost all major manufacturers have switched to the production of goods and machinery limited resource... The capitalists came to the conclusion that producing such engines and mechanisms is much more profitable in terms of making a profit. This is not a question of curvature, but a specially selected production strategy. For example, none of the manufacturers will ever install million-plus engines on passenger cars. But this only applies to the civilian sphere. In the military sphere, the trend continues to increase the resource and turnaround time of systems and mechanisms.
        2. Tank jacket
          Tank jacket 17 July 2020 08: 15
          +2
          I agree, German E-MAG machines of the 80s still work without problems, and new ones break constantly ...
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 17 July 2020 10: 37
            +2
            Quote: Tank jacket
            I agree, German E-MAG machines of the 80s still work without problems, and new ones break constantly ...

            Are they really German? And then our production director in the early 2000s somehow chose "machines from Germany". "True German quality, no match for others"We bought it. Delivered it. The machines worked for half a year - and they started to break down. We began to understand. It turned out that only the company's office is located in Germany, and the production has long been moved to Shenzhen. smile
            1. Tank jacket
              Tank jacket 17 July 2020 12: 18
              +3
              Yes, the machine was made in China, but designed by whom? I will explain, the whole machine has become half as much, everything is flimsy, one thing breaks


              But the old 80’s, if only that, it’s more of course, but more durable and the details are more reliable.

  6. Allex
    Allex 17 July 2020 07: 59
    +1
    Something German quality is not right!
  7. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 17 July 2020 08: 20
    0
    The engines of high-speed patrol boats, recently modernized in the interests of the South Korean fleet, are massively out of order. There is a suspicion that the cause of engine failure is the ingress of sea water,
    Judging by the photo, the "great shipbuilders" followed the path of the Maydauns. Coastal troughs called medium range and forth. fool There may be boats and may be marine, but obviously with a different architecture. He is clearly low-breasted and overweight. Naturally, in a storm, he grabbed the sea wave with an air intake. repeat
    hi author, specify the photo. In the photo, a coast guard boat, and maybe customs. 200 tons are not there!
  8. vindigo
    vindigo 17 July 2020 12: 42
    +2
    The movie was recently watched. Battle of Ephendo. Korean watchdogs (northern and southern) are straight armored carriers bristling with guns. Our white beauties will not stand up to fighting them.
  9. Alien From
    Alien From 17 July 2020 16: 58
    +1
    But did someone say that the Germans make the best diesel? Plus service .......
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter 17 July 2020 20: 22
      0
      And who makes the best diesels.
      In fact?
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 17 July 2020 22: 07
        0
        Japanese. I do not pretend to be true. Personally, my opinion.
  10. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 17 July 2020 20: 20
    +2
    By the way, a friend told me a year ago about such (possible development) of events. True to our ships.
    I then thought it was a "blunder". It is possible that the man really knew what he was talking about ...
  11. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 17 July 2020 21: 28
    +1
    What is wrong here? In a diesel engine, seawater a priori cannot get in. Cooling of diesel engines with desalinated water; with a minimum, close to 0% in salt. In the engine room, sea waves do not splash. The mechanic on the diesel engine's main engine room also does not pour seawater from the fire mains. All this is strange. If fresh then everything is clear or the translation is not correct. The word marine should not be.
  12. rotfuks
    rotfuks 17 July 2020 22: 48
    +2
    The Germans had staff and technology. But the efforts of greens and other nature lovers are completely absent from the extraction and processing of ore and the smelting of metals. The same MTU receives materials from the countries of Southeast Asia. And it is simply unlikely to control everything with such a scale of purchases. An acquaintance of mine works in an official Mercedes dealership. He says that customer complaints about rusting roofs of cars have become more frequent. Sometimes through holes appear in the antenna area. And this despite the fact that the Mercedes gives a 10-year warranty on the body. It turned out that the problem cars had Romanian steel. And at the time of installation, this steel met all quality criteria.