Military Review

Who won and who lost from pension reform in Russia

242

Pension reform has become one of the most significant innovations of the Russian government in the socio-economic field in recent years. Who and what will receive from raising the retirement age?


Beneficiaries and Losers


It is clear that the state becomes the main beneficiary of pension reform, which gets the opportunity to save enormous amounts of money by increasing the retirement age by as much as five years. If we take into account the life expectancy of Russians, especially males, then the number of people who have reached the age of 65 will receive a pension that will be significantly less than before they lived up to the age of 60.

The number of those who apply for a social pension will decrease even more - the age for reaching it has been raised to 70 years. Meanwhile, not only parasites, but also those who have worked hard for decades but have not been officially registered, receive a social pension, and this is a significant part of builders, agricultural workers, the sphere of trade, services and many other industries.

The most losing category were Russians of pre-retirement age, who were “lucky” to be born only 5 years younger than those who had already retired. It turns out that they will retire 5 years later than the people who worked with them and were a little older. That is, a man born in 1958 retired at 60, and a man born in 1963 will retire at 65. People of close age groups are placed in an unequal position, which can provoke social tension.

At the same time, there is a category of citizens in Russian society, and a rather large category, which sooner benefitted from pension reform than lost. These are those who are already retired. For current pensioners, raising the retirement age has even become profitable, since it contributed to the increase in pensions, albeit insignificant. This circumstance explains the fact that there are much more critics of pension reform among middle-aged and young people than among pensioners.

The labor market did not win at all


The need for pension reform was explained, among other things, by the needs of the Russian labor market: supposedly there are not enough workers and the need for them can be covered by the older age category up to 60-65 years. However, in reality, raising the retirement age will only create additional problems in the labor market and in the social sphere as a whole.

Firstly, it is necessary to provide jobs for people 55-65 years old who previously retired. This is not an easy task, especially if we are not talking about doctors or teachers, but about manual workers or those areas of activity in which young resources are still preferable.


Finding a job in old age is difficult

Secondly, these categories of people turn into competitors of young specialists, which prevents the latter from finding employment. This creates a twofold situation: in the field of education, health care, in administrative work, older age groups will not make room for young specialists, and in the field of physical labor and work that does not require special qualifications, the heads of enterprises and firms will try to get rid of older employees under any pretexts.

Thirdly, there will be a new category of disadvantaged unemployed people aged 55-70 years (before reaching social retirement) who cannot find work and have no means of livelihood. Separately, it is worth noting the question of retraining, advanced training, additional education for people of older age groups who, due to age, can no longer work in their specialty.

In general, pension reform, with dubious benefits for the state as a whole and the labor market in particular, has become a powerful factor in the disappointment of Russian citizens in the policy of the government. It can be argued that reform is one of the biggest miscalculations of the current leadership of the country, especially in the current situation, when the optimal conditions for a phased increase in the retirement age have not been created.
Author:
Photos used:
Twitter / Pension Fund of the Russian Federation in the Samara region
242 comments
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  1. BAI
    BAI 15 July 2020 12: 55 New
    -47
    I am from 63 years old. He flew to the maximum. What is wrong. But on the other hand, the circumstances were such that these 5 years should be worked on in the same place. So reform by the way ..
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 15 July 2020 13: 06 New
      62
      It can be argued that reform is one of the biggest miscalculations of the current leadership of countries

      But is this a miscalculation ... I don’t think they can add two plus two .. Intentional genocide, get rid of ballast ..
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 15 July 2020 13: 22 New
        53
        Judging by the minuses, there are people who liked to work another five years! I wish them good health and long life!
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 15 July 2020 13: 25 New
          53
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          Judging by the minuses, there are people who liked to work another five years! I wish them good health and long life!

          These are those who are paid by the "reformers" .. they were called on the Internet to create the illusion that everything Putin does is “good”, all for people .. but even when it is clearly visible that he is harming, they say they say it mnogohodovochka .. In general, work as they can .. hi
          1. Van 16
            Van 16 15 July 2020 13: 47 New
            37
            "they say it's a multi-way"
            The last two years have shown very vividly that all of these “multi-steps” and other “cunning plans” of Putin are so primitive and stereotyped that you are simply amazed how anyone else believes in them.
          2. Vend
            Vend 15 July 2020 15: 42 New
            -36
            Quote: Svarog
            Quote: Uncle Lee
            Judging by the minuses, there are people who liked to work another five years! I wish them good health and long life!

            These are those who are paid by the "reformers" .. they were called on the Internet to create the illusion that everything Putin does is “good”, all for people .. but even when it is clearly visible that he is harming, they say they say it mnogohodovochka .. In general, work as they can .. hi

            Do not judge other people on your own laughing For example, in 2016 I took a mortgage and my third child was born, so working longer is already a vital necessity for me. As for the reform, we will soon find out how this multi-passage will end. And those who get paid to calculate it is very simple, they are always to blame for Putin)) did not watch the series "Sleeping" he was banned from showing on TV after the premiere. Have a look)
            1. Virus-free crown
              Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 16: 46 New
              12
              Quote: Wend
              Quote: Svarog
              Quote: Uncle Lee
              Judging by the minuses, there are people who liked to work another five years! I wish them good health and long life!

              These are those who are paid by the "reformers" .. they were called on the Internet to create the illusion that everything Putin does is “good”, all for people .. but even when it is clearly visible that he is harming, they say they say it mnogohodovochka .. In general, work as they can .. hi

              Do not judge other people on your own laughing For example, in 2016 I took a mortgage and my third child was born, so working longer is already a vital necessity for me. As for the reform, we will soon find out how this multi-passage will end. And those who get paid to calculate it is very simple, they are always to blame for Putin)) did not watch the series "Sleeping" he was banned from showing on TV after the premiere. Have a look)

              Well ... "rewind" a little ahead ... and estimate how you are at 63 ... for example ... you will find a job in the specialty ... repeat I’m all paying attention to how the youth is saying - “I’ve bought it with popcorn” good
              1. Vend
                Vend 15 July 2020 17: 06 New
                -15
                Quote: Crown without virus
                Quote: Wend
                Quote: Svarog
                Quote: Uncle Lee
                Judging by the minuses, there are people who liked to work another five years! I wish them good health and long life!

                These are those who are paid by the "reformers" .. they were called on the Internet to create the illusion that everything Putin does is “good”, all for people .. but even when it is clearly visible that he is harming, they say they say it mnogohodovochka .. In general, work as they can .. hi

                Do not judge other people on your own laughing For example, in 2016 I took a mortgage and my third child was born, so working longer is already a vital necessity for me. As for the reform, we will soon find out how this multi-passage will end. And those who get paid to calculate it is very simple, they are always to blame for Putin)) did not watch the series "Sleeping" he was banned from showing on TV after the premiere. Have a look)

                Well ... "rewind" a little ahead ... and estimate how you are at 63 ... for example ... you will find a job in the specialty ... repeat I’m all paying attention to how the youth is saying - “I’ve bought it with popcorn” good

                And my profession is not a loader, and by the age of 50 I managed to achieve something, I will work and raise children. If you remember, by law it is forbidden to fire an employee of retirement age 5 years before retirement, so that in 63 they will not be able to fire you.
                1. Virus-free crown
                  Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 19 New
                  18
                  I, at 51 years old, can’t find a job for myself - but even 3 months ago I worked 15 years in a company for 100 thousand rubles of white salary))) at 59,9 years old, you are sure that when you get fired, you will find yourself on 5 years coming work? repeat
                  1. Vend
                    Vend 15 July 2020 17: 36 New
                    -17
                    Quote: Crown without virus
                    I, at 51 years old, can’t find a job for myself - but even 3 months ago I worked 15 years in a company for 100 thousand rubles of white salary))) at 59,9 years old, you are sure that when you get fired, you will find yourself on 5 years coming work? repeat

                    Why are you so sure that they will fire me? Here, after all, it also depends on the company from the profession. Yes, I do not sit idly by and do not wait for a pension, not my character. But let's look differently, well, will you have a normal pension with a white salary, and for those who worked, for example, not in white or a salary of 30, will they have a large pension? Well, they will retire 000 next what? Living on a retirement which representatives of your camp determine how miserable it is impossible to live on? Why then strive for it? Or a matter of principle?
                    1. Virus-free crown
                      Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 41 New
                      21
                      Quote: Wend
                      Quote: Crown without virus
                      I, at 51 years old, can’t find a job for myself - but even 3 months ago I worked 15 years in a company for 100 thousand rubles of white salary))) at 59,9 years old, you are sure that when you get fired, you will find yourself on 5 years coming work? repeat

                      Why are you so sure that they will fire me? Here, after all, it also depends on the company from the profession. Yes, I do not sit idly by and do not wait for a pension, not my character. But let's look differently, well, will you have a normal pension with a white salary, and for those who worked, for example, not in white or a salary of 30, will they have a large pension? Well, they will retire 000 next what? Living on a retirement which representatives of your camp determine how miserable it is impossible to live on? Why then strive for it? Or a matter of principle?

                      1. I was "fired" a month ago, when our company went bankrupt because of NON-quarantine - as the saying goes ... "Don’t be denied the sum and prison" tongue
                      2. I neither sit nor wait "by the sea of ​​weather" good Only while I found myself a new job in a month of active searches ... at least 3/4 of what was
                      3. I’ll tell you a “terrible top secret” - when you retire, you could get a pension earlier and work at the same time - if you had the strength, health and opportunities ...
                      1. Vend
                        Vend 15 July 2020 17: 47 New
                        -16
                        Quote: Crown without virus
                        Quote: Wend
                        Quote: Crown without virus
                        I, at 51 years old, can’t find a job for myself - but even 3 months ago I worked 15 years in a company for 100 thousand rubles of white salary))) at 59,9 years old, you are sure that when you get fired, you will find yourself on 5 years coming work? repeat

                        Why are you so sure that they will fire me? Here, after all, it also depends on the company from the profession. Yes, I do not sit idly by and do not wait for a pension, not my character. But let's look differently, well, will you have a normal pension with a white salary, and for those who worked, for example, not in white or a salary of 30, will they have a large pension? Well, they will retire 000 next what? Living on a retirement which representatives of your camp determine how miserable it is impossible to live on? Why then strive for it? Or a matter of principle?

                        1. I was "fired" a month ago, when our company went bankrupt because of NON-quarantine - as the saying goes ... "Don’t be denied the sum and prison" tongue
                        2. I neither sit nor wait "by the sea of ​​weather" good Only while I found myself a new job in a month of active searches ... at least 3/4 of what was
                        3. I’ll tell you a “terrible top secret” - when you retire, you could get a pension earlier and work at the same time - if you had the strength, health and opportunities ...

                        So I say, it depends on the profession and on the company. Yes, it’s possible to retire and work, but if a person is ready to work in retirement, then it will not matter to him whether he will leave at 60 or 65, he would have worked for these 5 years.
                      2. Virus-free crown
                        Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 58 New
                        12
                        Quote: Wend

                        So I say, it depends on the profession and on the company. Yes, it’s possible to retire and work, but if a person is ready to work in retirement, then it will not matter to him whether he will leave at 60 or 65, he would have worked for these 5 years.

                        And if you are NOT ready ?! repeat And if he also raised his grandchildren in retirement, while the parents of the grandchildren plow like damned, at least to provide for their children normally?
                      3. Vend
                        Vend 15 July 2020 18: 27 New
                        -15
                        Quote: Crown without virus
                        Quote: Wend

                        So I say, it depends on the profession and on the company. Yes, it’s possible to retire and work, but if a person is ready to work in retirement, then it will not matter to him whether he will leave at 60 or 65, he would have worked for these 5 years.

                        And if you are NOT ready ?! repeat And if he also raised his grandchildren in retirement, while the parents of the grandchildren plow like damned, at least to provide for their children normally?

                        Then such a person can raise his grandchildren, the children will take care of him, we have lived like this for two years, I looked after my mother-in-law to the garden. My wife and I earned a family of 6 people.
                2. Stalllker
                  Stalllker 15 July 2020 19: 46 New
                  +2
                  Why are you explaining this to him ?! He is a troll
              2. Tank jacket
                Tank jacket 15 July 2020 18: 31 New
                -13
                With a salary of 100 TR could you earn money for an apartment? Or did they spend everything in Turkey?
                1. Stalllker
                  Stalllker 15 July 2020 19: 47 New
                  -6
                  Yes, you could just save money
                  1. Tank jacket
                    Tank jacket 15 July 2020 20: 07 New
                    -8
                    He (a crown without a virus) campaigned many-sided, or ... like Trotsky, in the 90s chased arrows, "And then - on civil matters and not really - as a side of" defense "or" attack "- participated in lawsuits. .. "And then IT Co. specialist for 15 years ... wassat
                    It’s a pity I didn’t have time to the astronauts ...
                  2. Stalllker
                    Stalllker 15 July 2020 20: 32 New
                    -2
                    It smoothes you
                  3. Stalllker
                    Stalllker 15 July 2020 20: 32 New
                    -2
                    It smoothes you
            2. Stalllker
              Stalllker 15 July 2020 19: 44 New
              0
              And why did you get fired ????
          3. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 15 July 2020 17: 24 New
            15
            Quote: Wend
            then by law it is forbidden to dismiss an employee of retirement age 5 years before retirement, so that in 63 they will not be able to dismiss you.

            Heh, they wanted to fire one, but he didn’t give in. Caught when he smoked around the corner.
            - Yes, everyone smoked there!
            - I didn’t see everyone, but you were definitely there ...
            1. Stalllker
              Stalllker 15 July 2020 19: 48 New
              -4
              Yes, and if caught, and what ???? Three violations are necessary to somehow bring a person to dismissal
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 15 July 2020 22: 03 New
                +5
                Quote: Stalllker
                Three violations are necessary to somehow bring a person to dismissal

                But it’s necessary, they’ll catch it three times.
                1. Stalllker
                  Stalllker 15 July 2020 22: 12 New
                  -10
                  There is a rostrud where you can appeal any punishment, even sucked from your finger
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 15 July 2020 22: 45 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Stalllker
                  There is a rostrud where you can appeal any punishment,

                  From life.
                  - Do you know how to light a column?
                  - I can ...
                  - Do you know how to cook eggs?
                  - I can ...
                  Oops! transfer from the second group of disability to the third.
                3. Stalllker
                  Stalllker 16 July 2020 01: 04 New
                  -7
                  I won’t even comment on your crap
                4. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 16 July 2020 01: 51 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Stalllker
                  I won’t even comment on your crap

                  Of course not. What the hell is that?
    2. veritas
      veritas 15 July 2020 19: 27 New
      18
      Quote: Wend
      If you remember, by law it is forbidden to fire an employee of retirement age 5 years before retirement, so that in 63 they will not be able to fire you.

      I consider pension reform a robbery. And that’s why, if it weren’t for a robbery, the state could set a floating retirement schedule. How many people worked, so much received. He worked for 30 years and suppose, at 50, he was left without work. I wrote a statement and began to receive a pension not at 65, but at 50, depending on the accumulated deductions, the amount that could be regulated would be determined, you feel that you will live a long time, you indicate that the amount of pension deductions should be divided by 50 years and you receive a pension at 5 000 (conditional) rubles. And if you feel that your health is poor, then divide the deductions by 10 years and get 50 conditional rubles. Such an option, at least somehow, would be fair. And so, they just threw people of pre-retirement age to die.
      1. Stalllker
        Stalllker 15 July 2020 19: 48 New
        -13
        And I think you're a troll !!! Well, what should we do ??
      2. Vend
        Vend 16 July 2020 10: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: veritas
        Quote: Wend
        If you remember, by law it is forbidden to fire an employee of retirement age 5 years before retirement, so that in 63 they will not be able to fire you.

        I consider pension reform a robbery. And that’s why, if it weren’t for a robbery, the state could set a floating retirement schedule. How many people worked, so much received. He worked for 30 years and suppose, at 50, he was left without work. I wrote a statement and began to receive a pension not at 65, but at 50, depending on the accumulated deductions, the amount that could be regulated would be determined, you feel that you will live a long time, you indicate that the amount of pension deductions should be divided by 50 years and you receive a pension at 5 000 (conditional) rubles. And if you feel that your health is poor, then divide the deductions by 10 years and get 50 conditional rubles. Such an option, at least somehow, would be fair. And so, they just threw people of pre-retirement age to die.

        Also an interesting idea, there are many solutions.
    3. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 16 July 2020 11: 44 New
      +5
      You aren’t such a child, but believe that the employer won’t figure out how to dismiss .. for another reason a pre-pensioner .. if you don’t talk about it, google it - how to dismiss an employee, you will probably find something interesting ..
  2. Stalllker
    Stalllker 15 July 2020 19: 44 New
    -17
    And if a person by this time is already working, at least by profession, at least not. Why would he look for something ???? At the Pole, they are only happy to raise their age, now they will not be asked to retire from 55 years old. And at 55 you can still work quite well ... For downs, Pole is a gold mining company, here they will strictly fly for the legislation of the Russian Federation and working on a rotational basis we will retire earlier
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 16 July 2020 02: 14 New
      +6
      Quote: Stalllker
      For downs

      Crawled similar.
      Quote: Stalllker
      here they will strictly fly away for the legislation of the Russian Federation and working on a rotational basis we retire earlier

      What time do you go, citizens?
  • Vikxnumx
    Vikxnumx 15 July 2020 17: 31 New
    +7
    For example, in 2016 I took a mortgage and my third child was born, so working longer is already a vital necessity for me.

    If only health was enough to modify !!!
    1. Stalllker
      Stalllker 15 July 2020 19: 49 New
      -6
      I would advise him not to communicate with swami, it will be healthier
  • Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 15 July 2020 22: 23 New
    +3
    Quote: Wend
    Do not judge other people by yourself. For example, in 2016 I took a mortgage and my third child was born, so working longer is already a vital necessity for me.

    Yes, fullness to you. You might think that before you did not have the opportunity to work a little more than the age that was provided for senior citizens. If a person is a specialist, then the manual itself will keep it to the last opportunity. By the way, this is one of the points in which I disagree with the author
    in the field of physical labor and work that does not require special qualifications, the heads of enterprises and firms will try to get rid of older employees under any pretext.
    Any old Petrovich will work 100% better in a week than a few young oak mines in a month. However, the trouble shot on the other hand, namely with a perverted submission of DAM. Due to the fact that working pensioners will not be indexed pensions. Type go to the forest, i.e. home and just get what the state gives you. I don’t understand one thing, if a working pensioner paid the same tax from his salary as an ordinary hard worker, then, in fact, he himself, with his own labor, paid part of his own pension, removing the burden from the state and made his contribution to the future pension payment fund seniors. Now it does not work, does not contribute anything and is a burden for the state.
    Quote: Wend
    As for the reform, we will soon find out how this multi-passage will end. And those who get paid are very easy to calculatethey always have Putin to blame
    Primitively. What does it mean that Putin is opposed exclusively by those who are paid and blowing against pension reform? Personally, I am normal towards the period of Putin’s leadership after EBN, however, the pension reform was his mistake, which, despite the fact that he addressed the Russians with an attempt to justify its necessity, has been steadily gnawing his rating for 2 years now. Unlike many of the “fighters” present here, I see not only the bad sides of his leadership, because there is much that really contributed to strengthening the image of Russia in the international arena and restoring its sovereignty, which was achieved thanks to the GDP, but nevertheless it must be admitted that as a strategist he really got into a stick when he went on about those who lobbied for an increase in the pension term. Those who started this and complied with the IMF's requirements for raising retirement age are now in the shadows. One of them, Anatolyevich’s patronymic, now sits even in the Security Council and is not responsible for anything, but the main bumps fall precisely on the GDP. Once they fall, then they deserve it.
    PS <In 2012, the government got into the pocket of military pensioners and cut their pension at a rate of 54% of the earned pension, promising to index this figure every year by 2%. For 8 years, the picture has not changed much and indexation by this indicator has not been carried out for the last 4 years, but the level of annual inflation is only compensated. So your thesis is
    And those who are paid are very easy to calculate, they always have Putin to blame))
    not true, because I, as a military pensioner, have my own claims on the guarantor that have not been paid by anyone. Moreover, he, as a military pensioner, is not subject to the bank, but apparently for removing the pension received on his card. Meanwhile, over the years of clamping down payments of really well-deserved military pensions, each military pensioner (if everyone equals the average pension for everyone at 20. thousand) has lost at least 200.000 rubles. For all military pensioners, this is not a small amount of money, but Dima took it away and, at the expense of military pensions, patched up a hole in the payment of civil pensions, stupidly transferring money from one pocket to another. The constitution, which does not have a classification of pensioners according to their membership in the service, public service and the average citizen worked out, is not spelled out about discrimination of pensioners on the basis of service, but none the less, and will never reimburse pension losses to military pensioners. We made an amendment to the indexation and payment of pensions, they say we guarantee, but will it make sense if the word pensioners is depersonalized? I doubt that in connection with the adoption of the amendments, justice for military pensioners will be restored.
  • at84432384
    at84432384 15 July 2020 23: 01 New
    +5
    And what, without this "reform" could not work longer ?! Nobody drove away from work if you are doing quite well. But at the same time, there would be a pension.
  • AU Ivanov.
    AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 13: 46 New
    -13
    Well, I would be very pleased to fly to the age limit for the pilot - 65 years. But medicine decided otherwise and I was retired at fifty dollars. For me it was a personal tragedy.
    1. Van 16
      Van 16 15 July 2020 14: 14 New
      42
      "I retired at fifty dollars"
      You then retire. And my friend at the plant did not pass a medical examination, they kicked me out of nowhere for health reasons. In the old way, he would retire at the end of the year, and now he still needs not one and a half, or even two years, to spin. Hurry up reform.
      1. Esoteric
        Esoteric 15 July 2020 16: 56 New
        14
        This is the worst. Moreover, it is furnished as concern for human health. Good care. Go, starve to death, or to the homeless.
        1. Van 16
          Van 16 15 July 2020 18: 24 New
          +7
          That's it. Pharisaism is continuous.
      2. Stalllker
        Stalllker 15 July 2020 19: 54 New
        -20
        And what prevents people from thinking now about their future, saving money, doing some groundwork for the future. Now there are programs for future retirees. Personally, I have pension accumulations in private pension funds and in the vulgar year I received + 30t. investment income. So I think Ipp open and let the money accumulate. And sitting and whining and the government is shit, the country is shit, but I am so offended, but this is the lot of weak people
        1. Van 16
          Van 16 15 July 2020 20: 08 New
          10
          You tell this to my friend who, all his life at the defense plant, left his health here, and now he is out of the gate. And who needs him at 59?
          1. Stalllker
            Stalllker 15 July 2020 20: 35 New
            -15
            So you tell him to your friend. But on the other hand, such as your friend is 99,99%. I am alone in my team about my pension and future. And for others, "just to eat today"
            1. Vikxnumx
              Vikxnumx 16 July 2020 09: 43 New
              +7
              So you tell him to your friend. But on the other hand, such as your friend is 99,99%. I am alone in my team about my pension and future. And for others, "just to eat today"

              Mouth closed - workplace removed ???
              Or just a P ... l storyteller?
              With such horseradish revenues are you doing here on the site?
        2. Oleg Skvortsov
          Oleg Skvortsov 16 July 2020 08: 26 New
          +5
          Never mind. Here you can immediately see the pro-Putin troll, divorced you here - like a flea in a dog. You decide how to breathe, especially about NPFs and investment income
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 15 July 2020 14: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: AU Ivanov.
      it was a personal tragedy.

      I sympathize with you, but! There is no arguing against medicine!
    3. Vend
      Vend 15 July 2020 17: 37 New
      -6
      Quote: AU Ivanov.
      Well, I would be very pleased to fly to the age limit for the pilot - 65 years. But medicine decided otherwise and I was retired at fifty dollars. For me it was a personal tragedy.

      I’m not a pilot, but I understand you, my brother after writing off went to Australia with his family, he is still flying.
  • MstislavHrabr
    MstislavHrabr 15 July 2020 15: 19 New
    33
    I'm 50. There was already a stroke. Disabilities do not give us, they say you can have surgery, remove the aneurysm and be healthy. My friend took a chance and now lies like a vegetable ... I don’t want to repeat his experience. God forbid we live to 60 ... Putin insulators (and there are 90% of people from 45 to 60 years old) just threw ...
  • Per se.
    Per se. 15 July 2020 13: 35 New
    56
    Quote: Svarog
    Intentional genocide, getting rid of ballast ..
    There used to be a popular phrase, “Fraer’s greed destroyed”, for many this reform became an indicator of the attitude of the authorities towards the people, in general, the wolfish grin of capitalism. As a result, pension reform for many resulted in a loss of confidence in the government and personally in the president.
    Was it worth it for our powers that be, did they win back a lot of money "to the budget", from which millions are stolen, billions flow away, the question ... Finally, how about the funded part of the pension, which many have long been deducted from salaries, where did the money go and when should people wait for it now? Do we have a bright future in capitalism, let everyone now think.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 15 July 2020 13: 42 New
      42
      Quote: Per se.
      Do we have a bright future in capitalism, let everyone now think.

      The problem is that part of the population refuses to think .. they watch TV and Solovyov, Kiselev .. and they tell them that life is getting better .. that the enemies are around, but Putin has foreseen everything .. and this part believes, plus fraud with voting and political technology .. But it’s so simple, with any system, there is a result — work, no — proofs .. But we generally lifted up for life .. plus the people are very inert .. here in Khabarovsk, the situation clearly showed the attitude towards Putin and edra .. let's see what happens next, but the Khabarovsk citizens are great fellows ..
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 15 July 2020 14: 26 New
      23
      Quote: Per se.
      Do we have a bright future

      Reminded a joke:
      -Doctor, can I have a beer?
      -What beer !!!!
      -And in the future? ....
      -What is the future !!!!
    3. Lannan Shi
      Lannan Shi 15 July 2020 14: 35 New
      26
      Quote: Per se.
      Do we have a bright future in capitalism,

      Of course there is! Ajar door in the crematorium furnace. You will not say that it is dark behind this door? lol
    4. arlekin
      arlekin 15 July 2020 17: 09 New
      +7
      Quote: Per se.
      Do we have a bright future in capitalism, let everyone now think.

      The light at the end of the tunnel turned out to be a flamethrower.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 15 July 2020 13: 51 New
    46
    Intentional genocide, getting rid of ballast ..

    I absolutely agree.
    A friend lost his job at 55. Driving my whole life, trucker. Now he is 59. For four years, he could not get anywhere. They say in my eyes that if I were 10 years younger ...
    It is terrible that such people will soon become a huge number. Who needs workers 60-65 years old? How will people live? But everything is beautiful in the country, especially in the media.
    1. AUL
      AUL 15 July 2020 14: 10 New
      35
      For current pensioners, raising the retirement age has even become profitable, since it contributed to the increase in pensions, albeit insignificant.
      Something I did not notice any benefit to myself! Looks like he was not looking there ... laughing
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 15 July 2020 14: 24 New
        31
        Quote: AUL
        Something I did not notice any benefit to myself!

        I noticed the same thing. Prices in the store are growing much faster than a pension.
      2. depressant
        depressant 15 July 2020 14: 43 New
        22
        The reform has not paid off. Putin suffered tremendous reputation damage. Is it possible to make up for it by curtailing an unfit project with the addition of compensatory nishtyaks? And also speaking on TV with a penitent speech? So, they say, and so, I was mistaken. Counting on the people grunting, but secretly flattered - well, then, the president repents before him! - and some will even begin to believe him.
        Well, that is unlikely. No one will believe anyone who once took the money and well-deserved rest.
        1. Pereira
          Pereira 15 July 2020 16: 09 New
          16
          Not sure if he has this money. I suspect that the savings on pensioners have already been shoved into our pockets.
          1. depressant
            depressant 15 July 2020 17: 18 New
            +8
            They say that the economic crisis has confused all plans, and the government is preparing a new pension reform - supposedly in the interests of the people. The "old" reform was adopted in a stable environment of "negative GDP growth" (Nabiulli term, mind you). And now, apparently, there is a collapse of the revenue side of the budget, such that the government began to print money. And if so, then why not reconsider financial obligations to the population. If 1,5 trillion has already been thrown, so why not waste time on the return of the previous pension norms! In addition, if in 2018 there were no more jobs, now their number is rapidly decreasing - and this despite the fact that in addition to pensioners occupying jobs due to an increase in the retirement age, new generations of the able-bodied population will arrive - new people eager to work! It is this arriving youth that is capable of creating serious problems for the government. It’s not at all an attack of humanism, not pity for people who are forced to drag their strap for an extra five years, tormenting government hearts. In addition, the Ministry of Labor cannot help but annoy mass violations of labor law when they dismiss pre-pensioners, who, most likely, will no longer find a job.
            1. Pereira
              Pereira 15 July 2020 17: 23 New
              12
              It’s not a fit of humanism, not pity for people,

              Well, what about? To the Uzbeks, pity. Do not expel them now from the country? This is Russian regret - a bad manners for an effective manager.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 15 July 2020 17: 32 New
                +4
                Quote: Pereira
                Well, what about? Uzbeks pity

                What a pity?
              2. depressant
                depressant 15 July 2020 17: 46 New
                +7
                Here you, a colleague, touched a pain point. There was a throw-in in the winter: the coronavirus closed its borders with Central Asia, the diaspora has no reserves, it threatened with robberies, killings, riots, and construction sites had to be opened. And now, for some reason, it seems to me that the threats were inspired by the construction monopolies, and the government supposedly had to open construction projects. Like, nowhere to go. And if it’s even simpler, then we were hung up with noodles about threats, and we swallowed. And now there is an intergovernmental conspiracy with the Azatian countries to mutual benefit, and we were divorced like suckers. Poverty there is the same noodles. People went, they say - there are no mountain villages for a long time, they live in large houses in the valleys, they master European plumbing. And this is at our expense. In general, the friendliness of Central Asia is bought for the jobs taken from us.
    2. tarabar
      tarabar 15 July 2020 14: 24 New
      30
      From the TV screen, artists, pianists and other singers, with their mouths, in all seriousness proved to us how wonderful it was to work and be useful in 70. Only my father at work (Russian Railways) 2 out of 3 do not have time to retire, and this is the same at 60 years old.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 15 July 2020 14: 29 New
        29
        us artists, pianists and other singers by mouth ...

        Mouth can work up to 80-90, if there is no dementia. But where physical strength is also needed ...
  • Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 15 July 2020 14: 27 New
    36
    The cannibal reform. The pension for men is 65 and their average expected age of survival is also about that. And this is according to official figures, which I simply do not believe. More recently, our average male life expectancy was about 58 years. But state statistics will not even draw that.
    So you plow all your life, pay the Pension Fund, live to retire, and then die. Profit! For the authorities ...
    I'm not talking about job prospects in 60+. Now after 40 they don’t want to take it!
  • paul3390
    paul3390 15 July 2020 15: 21 New
    32
    Actually - here they are, enemies of the people .. Fierce, angry .. And the main one is the one who asked us to treat such cannibalism with understanding .. For any idiot is clear - nothing good could be expected from this .. All these nonsense about type of hands and a hole in the FIU - just a frank schiz. Well, what kind of working hands are there after 60 ??? Only the youngsters must be beaten off places .. But the PFR - it is not necessary to steal, then there will be no hole. In general, the bourgeois proved themselves to the fullest. Led by the Chief Bourgeois .. Eh-there is no Red Army on them, it is too far in the past ..
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • pereselenec
    pereselenec 15 July 2020 17: 59 New
    +8
    Quote: BAI
    I am from 63 years old. He flew to the maximum. What is wrong. But on the other hand, the circumstances were such that these 5 years should be worked on in the same place. So reform by the way ..


    Here from such "Stakhanovites" as you need to create an all-Russian fund of labor reserves. Normal people let them retire as they were, and let people like you work another 5 or 10 years according to Putin’s precepts. For a higher retirement in the future, of course. If you survive.
  • Private89
    Private89 15 July 2020 18: 51 New
    12
    The oligarchs, speculators and thieves won, and the people lost.
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 15 July 2020 19: 05 New
    +9
    Quote: BAI
    circumstances so that these 5 years need to work in the same place. So reform by the way ..


    And if not for the reform, would you be unable to work these five years in the same place?
  • iouris
    iouris 16 July 2020 10: 53 New
    0
    This is not the last reform.
  • Dym71
    Dym71 15 July 2020 12: 56 New
    -14
    Meanwhile, not only parasites, but also those who have worked hard for decades but have not been officially registered, receive a social pension, and this is a significant part of builders, agricultural workers, the sphere of trade, services and many other industries.

    Ilya, I would like to dwell on this place in more detail, it would be especially interesting to learn about "many other industries"! hi
    1. Pasha
      Pasha 15 July 2020 13: 07 New
      27
      absolutely everywhere where older than 50 do not take
      1. seregarodionov
        seregarodionov 15 July 2020 14: 15 New
        +5
        Yes, everyone abruptly should become self-employed. Everyone and pay a bigger tax with almost no work.
      2. seregarodionov
        seregarodionov 15 July 2020 14: 18 New
        +5
        and yet, many times have seen how 50 + work at a construction site. Not counting foremen and above
      3. Dym71
        Dym71 15 July 2020 14: 36 New
        +2
        Quote: Pasha
        absolutely everywhere where older than 50 do not take

        Pavel, did you pay attention to the phrase in the sentence - "those who worked hard for decades?"
        For decades, Paul!
  • Woodman
    Woodman 15 July 2020 12: 58 New
    -19
    but also those who worked hard for decades, but weren’t formalized,
    So these people did not pay taxes ... But they used the entire social network, which was financed from the taxes of those who worked officially.
    This creates a twofold situation: in education, healthcare,
    We currently have a shortage of teachers and doctors.
    in administrative work, older age groups will not make room for young professionals,
    As far as I can remember, in administrative work, people kept themselves to the last. As long as my health allowed, I don’t know anyone who would retire. And they can be understood - most often it’s rather “dusty”, quiet work with good pay.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 15 July 2020 13: 32 New
        -7
        Quote: lubesky
        that this factor is extended for another five years, which narrows the flow of youth rotation

        I did not say that this is the "norm". I just said that in the case of "administrative work" nothing has changed in fact.
        1. lubesky
          lubesky 15 July 2020 13: 37 New
          20
          Quote: Lesovik
          I did not say that this is the "norm". I just said that in the case of "administrative work" nothing has changed in fact.

          Well, of course it has changed - there has been an extension of five years of this practice. You do not understand this? I’ll give an example - a junior researcher, waiting for the senior to retire - so that an intern or a graduate will free up space, but now he should wait another five years. know how to count?
          1. Woodman
            Woodman 15 July 2020 13: 41 New
            -7
            Quote: lubesky
            of course it has changed - there has been an extension of five years of this practice. You do not understand this? I will give an example - a junior researcher, waiting for the senior to retire

            Quote: Lesovik
            As far as I can remember, in administrative work, people kept themselves to the last. As long as my health allowed, I don’t know anyone who would retire.

            So my point of view is more understandable for you?
            1. lubesky
              lubesky 15 July 2020 13: 42 New
              +6
              Quote: Lesovik
              So my point of view is more understandable for you?

              I understand your point of view
              Quote: Lesovik
              in fact nothing has changed

              I'm trying to convey from this text of yours - the timing has changed
          2. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 13: 55 New
            -10
            And the SNA so directly sought to retire? Yes, he clutched his teeth and claws.
    2. Woodman
      Woodman 15 July 2020 13: 39 New
      -6
      By the way, for doctors and teachers to retire it is enough to have 25 years of experience. This condition has not changed. However, to ballet dancers and opera singers, if I am not mistaken, this also applies.
      1. Crash
        Crash 15 July 2020 16: 36 New
        +7
        You are mistaken, changed. Even having 25 years of experience and the right to a long service pension, you cannot immediately retire. The postponement of exit is now shifting in the same way upward: after six months, after a year, etc.
    3. ANB
      ANB 15 July 2020 14: 39 New
      -7
      You can work in IT at least up to 70. What am I going to do, although I have been retired for a long time.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 15 July 2020 15: 08 New
        18
        What should others do, especially those who work with their hands?
        1. ANB
          ANB 15 July 2020 17: 26 New
          +2
          I do not know. I wrote about the alternative to administrative work.
          And then my wife’s stepfather lost his job at age 55 due to an injury. And that’s it. They didn’t take anywhere else. He worked before on Rolton.
          I advise children to study. So then I am 1969 gr.
      2. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 16: 55 New
        +9
        Quote: ANB
        You can work in IT at least up to 70. What am I going to do, although I have been retired for a long time.

        In!!! drinks I am 51 years old, work experience in the IT field is 25+ years old, currently unemployed, I am actively looking for work with sn white from 100 thousand rubles - advise a vacancy ?! repeat I agree to 150 thousand rubles in gray
        1. ANB
          ANB 15 July 2020 17: 28 New
          0
          Pl / sql know? If so, write in a personal.
          Delphi is also desirable, but not necessary.
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 32 New
            +2
            Quote: ANB
            Pl / sql know? If so, write in a personal.
            Delphi is also desirable, but not necessary.

            I know HOW you need to manage the slovens who know Pl / SQL and Delphi, including that the work would be delivered in the "deadline" drinks from 100 thousand rubles a white sn suit ... write in a personal? repeat
            1. ANB
              ANB 15 July 2020 17: 37 New
              +1
              No, there are enough bosses. Even too much time to disperse.
              However, write, I will give the site. But I can’t help. We need developers in the department and I can recommend it.
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 45 New
                +3
                Quote: ANB
                No, there are enough bosses. Even too much time to disperse.
                However, write, I will give the site. But I can’t help. We need developers in the department and I can recommend it.

                I specify! drinks hi
                I'm not the boss " bully I’m exactly the dude who takes the “creative collectiff” for eggs and ... despite their “cries and snot” - he hands over the work of the “creative collectiff” good
                1. ANB
                  ANB 15 July 2020 19: 31 New
                  +1
                  We have such called the "project manager."
                  They don’t live for a long time, because except for howling “we must do it faster” they don’t know anything and do not know how. As a rule, they are not paid attention. By the way, it seems that just recently another pack left and it seems that there are vacancies.
                  You write, sensible managers are also needed. But I won’t be able to push through there.
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 15 July 2020 17: 40 New
          +8
          Quote: Crown without virus
          I am actively looking for work with sn white from 100 thousand rubles - advise a vacancy ?!

          I can advise. Waterfall, about 10 hours a day, one day off per week. salary - 10 thousand
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 54 New
            +2
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            Quote: Crown without virus
            I am actively looking for work with sn white from 100 thousand rubles - advise a vacancy ?!

            I can advise. Waterfall, about 10 hours a day, one day off per week. salary - 10 thousand

            Clarification - between 10 thousand and 100 thousand - an error in numbers by an order of magnitude drinks
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 15 July 2020 17: 57 New
              +8
              Quote: Crown without virus
              error in numbers by an order of magnitude

              No, I definitely offer you. 10 (ten thousand) per month. They’re looking, they can’t find it.
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 18: 00 New
                +2
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                Quote: Crown without virus
                error in numbers by an order of magnitude

                No, I definitely offer you. 10 (ten thousand) per month. They’re looking, they can’t find it.

                But I’m definitely denying you that for 10 (ten thousand) a month I won’t go anywhere to work - I spend so much on cigarettes and bul-bul per month wassat
                I am ready to POW - but also receive accordingly !!! drinks
                1. ANB
                  ANB 15 July 2020 19: 35 New
                  0
                  We will definitely give you 100 sput.
                  PS. I have deservedly more.
    4. Lannan Shi
      Lannan Shi 15 July 2020 14: 59 New
      32
      Quote: Lesovik
      So these people did not pay taxes ... But they used the entire social network, which was financed from the taxes of those who worked officially.

      The number of employees of the Federal Tax Service is more than 150 thousand people. Simply put, 1 tax officer for 400-450 employees. Simply put, with such a number of parasites, they should know each worker by person and by name. And even easier to say ... If a certain Mr. Mishustin for 10 years has not been able to restore order in the field of tax collection, then it should not be in the premiere, but in the janitors. And in a couple, he didn’t have Mr. Putin, who could not, in 20 years, find an adequate head of the Federal Tax Service.
      Here is a simple example. City Dmitrov. Canalstroy stop. Cosmetics workshop - Agafia's grandmother. About three hundred unformed hard workers. Generally not designed. I, in Dmitrov, who happen to be in transit, know that the employees of the Federal Tax Service in the Dmitrovsky district, who receive a salary for this knowledge, "do not know." And they don’t want to know. But neither the owner of this agafya bucket, nor the Federal Tax Service are to blame for tax evasion, and Uncle Petya and Baba Manya are guilty, who are forced to work without registration, so as not to die stupidly from hunger. Your brilliant logic.
      Laponka, if you’re not able to set up the work of the tax service in particular, and government agencies in general, it’s probably worth dumping it in the fog, and not clinging your teeth to a warm armchair. And do not blame, on the wrong people, the country inhabiting. Not? Not this way?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 15 July 2020 15: 12 New
        20
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        The number of employees of the Federal Tax Service is more than 150 thousand people

        The number of FIU employees is more than double that in the United States.
      2. Woodman
        Woodman 15 July 2020 15: 19 New
        -14
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        Laponka, if you are not able to establish the work of the tax service in particular, and government agencies in general

        Did you turn to Mishustin now?

        Quote: Lannan Shi
        About three hundred unformed hard workers. Generally unformed

        AND? Do you use social media? Go to hospitals, send children to kindergartens and schools? A social program is not funded by taxes? And they will come for retirement too. For which not a penny was deducted from their income.
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        Your brilliant logic.

        Is that what I wrote illogical?
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        But neither the owner of this agafya bucket, nor the Federal Tax Service are to blame for tax evasion,

        This is where I said that?
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        And uncle Petya and Baba Manya are to blame, who are forced to work without registration

        I can understand a person who, having lost his job, gets a job as an informal person so as not to sit on the same allowance, but I don’t understand a person who has been working informally for years or not working at all, and then complains that everything is bad and everyone is to blame, but not him .
        Quote: Lannan Shi
        Here is a simple example

        An example for an example. There is such a distribution network, the name begins on El, I will not advertise. Electronics trade. In our city, too. At that time, they had already worked out ten years. And a few years ago, either in the tax office or in the prosecutor's office (I don’t remember the details, but the whole city was discussing this event), a complaint was received about the “gray” salary. The reaction followed a couple of days. The result - now there are no "gray" salaries. Someone is looking for reasons, someone is looking for opportunities.
        Little honey ... mdya ...
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 15 July 2020 16: 02 New
          25
          Quote: Lesovik
          AND? Do you use social media? Go to hospitals, send children to kindergartens and schools? A social program is not funded by taxes? And they will come for retirement too. For which not a penny was deducted from their income.

          Hidden taxes are not, did not hear? Excise taxes not? We all pay, regardless of whether we are officially employed or not.
          Quote: Lesovik
          An example for an example. There is such a distribution network, the name begins on El, I will not advertise. Electronics trade.

          If you are talking about eldorado, then the main payment there is the bonus part, which is paid in cash at the end of the shift for the sold premium goods. I once worked there, I suspect that in other networks selling electronics as well.
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 16: 57 New
            10
            Why are you digging into Lesovik then ?! laughing
            Lesovik sits on the “budget”, and he doesn’t care about the rest hi
        2. Lannan Shi
          Lannan Shi 15 July 2020 16: 33 New
          26
          Quote: Lesovik
          I can understand a person who, having lost his job, gets a job as an informal person, so as not to sit on the same allowance, but I don’t understand a person who has been working informally for years or not working at all,

          Kirov region. PGT Arbazh. 4600 population. Jobs - administration, 6-7 places, a dozen boiler rooms, sawmills, 3-4 dozen, the same number of shops, half-dead peasant farm refueling. A. A couple more dozen teachers, as many kindergartens, and five police officers. Total 150-200 places for 2000-2500 workable. Unemployment at 90%. Well, let 85, if you missed something. The only option to survive is shift in large cities. Here on such agafia, magnets, and in the protection of warehouses and digging pits for these warehouses. And if you will play a lot ... You can go back to your native Arbazh and grow potatoes growing, but picking mushrooms. If you are not comfortable with informal work. And 80-90% of unregistered workers do not work this way because they are inveterate criminals, or principled anarchists, states that do not recognize. But because their children want to eat, And preferably 3 times a day, and not a month.
          Quote: Lesovik
          And a few years ago, either the tax office or the prosecutor’s office (I don’t remember the details, but the whole city was discussing this event), a complaint was received about the “gray” salary

          There is no position in the structure of the state apparatus of the Russian Federation - the complainant with a statement. The tax collection is the responsibility of the Federal Tax Service. For the adequacy of the head of the Federal Tax Service - prime minister. For the prime minister to work and to drive his subordinates, rather than pounding pears, the president. And if the tax one doesn’t work, the prime minister got into it, and the president smokes bamboo ... This means only one thing - these types of people are completely and completely incompatible with their positions. If I once sculpted excuses that yes, I have 30 dump trucks, but I don’t know where 15 of them are, because the area is large and it is impossible to control them ... I would fly out of work a minute after such a statement. But for our bureaucrats this style of work is the norm.
          If the Federal Tax Service, the government, the president, cannot ensure the collection of taxes at a sane level ... That is, they do not fulfill their direct duties ... But why do they get salaries for that? Speak beautifully on camera? Well then, they need to control the KVN, and not the state.
        3. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 16 July 2020 02: 23 New
          +5
          Quote: Lesovik
          An example for an example. There is such a distribution network, the name begins on El, I will not advertise.

          Good. Carousel. This store, if in the know. 60 rubles per hour in the guard.
      3. Mishka78
        Mishka78 15 July 2020 17: 01 New
        26
        Supplement a little. The number of employees of the RF PF is 130. For example, the Swedish PF - 000 people. Canada - 1. Japan - 000 (the population is slightly smaller than ours). USA - 9 (and there are 000 times more population!)
        Simply put - 1 fundowner for 350 pensioners.
        The PFRF maintains on the balance sheet 1200 buildings and 3000 premises with a total area of ​​2,2 million square meters. The construction of new buildings is ongoing, the total "missing" area is 380 thousand square meters.
        The annual cost of maintaining PF is about half a trillion rubles.
        PF functions for accounting, accrual, etc. in fact duplicated with the function of the Federal Tax Service, which charges income. The calculation base is the same.
        Let me remind you that there was no PF in the USSR. At all. Pensions were transferred directly from the budget through the social security agencies. But in the USSR, there were still 250 million people. Cope without a herd of parasites.
        We have such capitalism. Moreover, we left almost all the worst that was in the USSR and brought into it all the worst that is in capitalism ...
  • Varyag_0711
    Varyag_0711 15 July 2020 12: 59 New
    36
    The same to me is an open secret. If the pension fund had not built up Baroque-style mansion offices, then there would have been enough money for retirement. And so, one continuous obscene language ...
    1. tarabar
      tarabar 15 July 2020 14: 36 New
      +9
      Believe me, office expenses are not the biggest expenses, my wife works in the FIU and according to her conversations, you can’t even imagine to whom and how much we pay from a common boiler, the whole CIS feeds on different items, our loafers did not work a day also small, sophisticated officials and senior officials of state institutions have accruals - a separate issue. That's all and not enough.
      1. Sandro1977
        Sandro1977 15 July 2020 15: 01 New
        +8
        By the way, why, for example, is the same maternity capital paid out of a pension fund? Our leaders love to be generous ... At the expense of others ...
        1. tarabar
          tarabar 15 July 2020 15: 18 New
          +9
          Most likely there are transfers from the budget there, but with it there’s a lot of interesting information and fake certificates and fake (corrected) passports and the devil knows that, especially the Gypsies commit this sin, they travel around Russia there and apparently get it everywhere. A bunch of fake labor, here again the gypsies plus the Armenians, caught by the hand more than once, but can not do anything. Central Asia comes here to give birth, it can’t connect two words in Russian, but the citizens of the Russian Federation are all and give us everything that is supposed to be. I am surprised when they say how difficult it is to obtain our citizenship for refugees or for the same residents of Donbass, and for these people it’s simple to buy a ticket on the bus.
  • Bashkirkhan
    Bashkirkhan 15 July 2020 13: 07 New
    10
    Some retirees will still get covid-19. Those who have a chronic illness and survived strokes with heart attacks.
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 13: 08 New
    15
    Many do not see a pension at all !!! My case from the FIU statement over the past 3 years has decreased. How so? I work more and my experience has decreased)) And in the FIU they tried to prove to me that everything was right.
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 13: 10 New
    15
    PFR and NPF is a scam for people.
  • Roman123567
    Roman123567 15 July 2020 13: 14 New
    23
    Putin and his friends who robbed the people of Russia won ...
    All the rest, of course, exclusively lost !!
    Heading rzhachny ..
  • GTYCBJYTH2021
    GTYCBJYTH2021 15 July 2020 13: 14 New
    +8
    Quote: BAI
    I am from 63 years old. He flew to the maximum. What is wrong. But on the other hand, the circumstances were such that these 5 years should be worked on in the same place. So reform by the way ..

    Also with -63, December .......... What 5 years, eight countries give the country ......
  • lubesky
    lubesky 15 July 2020 13: 16 New
    18
    According to the REAL authorities, there is no “miscalculation”. Moreover, the reform was planned long ago, the final decision on the date of the decision was made in the first half of the zero and there is no economic, labor or health reason. It is dictated only by the fact that after 18 years those citizens of the Soviet Union who really managed to work in the USSR no more than 2-3 years will begin to retire, which means they did not build socialism and do not have a moral right to the Soviet social network! This is in their opinion. An analogy can be drawn - a conspiracy to perestroika and betray the achievements of the party and people has ripened by the end of the 60s, but the impetus and date were not accidentally appointed - by the age of 84-85 the last wave of front-line soldiers and old communists, who could interfere in real party positions, retired implementation of reforms (betrayal). According to the same logic, citizens of these years of birth and above (from 2018) - the remaining social system from the USSR will be systematically dismantled for them, and the remaining survivors who have the moral right - they will stay until their actual survival
    1. Dzerjinskiy56
      Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 13: 32 New
      15
      It will be canceled by all citizens. They not only added years. They cheat with experience. They do not consider seniority for studying in pu, seniority in the RA and the internal affairs department is also forgiving.
    2. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 13: 43 New
      -9
      Dig deeper! The first talk about the need for pension reform was made back when the Ryzhkov government was still under Mechenny.
    3. depressant
      depressant 15 July 2020 18: 39 New
      +2
      Lubesky, cool! A completely new aspect of the history of betrayal of the USSR. And, accordingly, on pension reform.
  • kitpit
    kitpit 15 July 2020 13: 19 New
    21
    Vova here laughed at the full program hid in people that in this matter he doesn’t paint at all
  • lubesky
    lubesky 15 July 2020 13: 31 New
    +5
    Quote: Lesovik
    As far as I can remember, in administrative work, people kept themselves to the last. As long as my health allowed, I don’t know anyone who would retire. And they can be understood - most often it’s rather “dusty”, quiet work with good pay.

    The article is not about the fact that this is not the norm, but about the fact that this factor is extended for another five years, which narrows the flow of youth rotation
  • lubesky
    lubesky 15 July 2020 13: 34 New
    14
    Quote: Lesovik
    So these people did not pay taxes ... But they used the entire social network, which was financed from the taxes of those who worked officially.

    And it turns out that the lack of OFFICIAL jobs with all taxes paid is the fault of your compatriots? Or is it their fault that they voluntarily do not pay taxes? And you are aware that for YOU for example - the employer does this and you yourself do not bother with taxes and the question is if taxes were your area of ​​responsibility - well, don’t know, don’t know - only your honest word in the reply that you still pay with ANY income and fill out the declaration ...
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 15 July 2020 13: 54 New
      -14
      Quote: lubesky
      And it turns out that the lack of OFFICIAL jobs with all taxes

      The lack of formal work and the desire to get more on non-formal are two different things. You can either change jobs or agree with the employer. But who wants to leave for less money for another job? And not everyone has the courage to argue with employers. Once upon a time we had enough. No repression followed, we are working for a "white" salary. As an example, a friend quit his official job with a decent salary by local standards and went on an unofficial job with a salary one and a half times more. And then he complained that taxes were not deductible for him. But he never returned to his previous job.
      Quote: lubesky
      Do you know what YOU are for example - the employer does it

      You won’t believe it, but I’m in the know.
      Quote: lubesky
      only your honest word in the reply comment

      I do not have income requiring taxes in accordance with modern tax legislation, except for those from which taxes are deducted by the employer.
      1. lubesky
        lubesky 15 July 2020 13: 59 New
        +9
        Quote: Lesovik
        But who wants to leave for less money for another job?

        Thank you for the exchange of views, it turns out all the responsibility for this you put on the people. Your right
      2. Oleg Skvortsov
        Oleg Skvortsov 16 July 2020 10: 06 New
        +1
        Forester. Sound - who are we? Where do you get your white salary? At the troll factory :? Then i believe
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 13: 38 New
    25
    Let me tell you about my situation. laughing
    51 years, until our company went bankrupt for NON-quarantine - I worked in it for 15 years as a Project Manager in the IT field ... The minimum salary is WHITE !!! - in our company was 80 thousand rubles ... I then got a job in our company, which they promised and carried out to me - my s / n WHITE !!! was from 100 thousand rubles + bonuses ... I then, "the naive Chukotka vyunosha thought", I will retire at 60 and go on a moto around the world - "see the world, show yourself" bully I even found a company where to buy insurance that I will die during the trip and my mortal body will be buried at the highest level by plane to my home country - for I am a realist, a trip according to plan would take about 5 years, and in the chocolate case I hope to survive up to 62-63 years old ... recourse

    And what do we have at this moment ... historical ... repeat

    I’m unemployed, I’ve been actively trying to arrange for a month by profession ... Standard situation:
    - call to the company
    - a couple of questions about my qualifications
    - the following is a question about my age - in return an honest answer - 51 years
    - even without a hitch, the phrase of all the best should follow, we would be very happy, but like you are no one to call us in 50+ years wassat

    And this is only 51 years old for me ... and what will happen at 61 ?! lol

    In general, until the fall I will look for a “white” sn - I can’t find it - already now there are proposals to go to the “gray zone” by sn and a half times more than I had good

    And I don’t give a damn about my retirement, to which I still won’t live tongue

    The only pity is that for the last 15 years I have been working nowhere ... crying
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 15 July 2020 13: 51 New
      11
      Let me tell you about my situation.
      WHITE !!! was from 100 thousand rubles + bonuses ..
      there are proposals to go to the "gray zone" on the RFP times one and a half more


      One can only dream of a similar situation for most of our population .. choose between 100 thousand. and 150 thousand ..))
      The author, however, can only sympathize with the fact that he initially “had the wit” to look for a white RFP 1,5 times less than he can get in a gray one .. This will not block any pension here and for 1000 years ..
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 14: 46 New
        +6
        The author ... 15 years ago I BELIEVED one person - I will not call him "radish" - that I will retire at 60 repeat

        Yes, in fact, the author is very sorry about this - but - as they say - decided to become "white" ... against the background of the rest of the "black" laughing I made a decision myself - and I answer !!! I’m used to taking responsibility for my decisions. good
    2. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 14: 10 New
      -10
      With such experience managing IT projects, you can calmly stir up your company. There are probably acquaintances, you won’t drink experience, and the field of activity is promising.
      1. ANB
        ANB 15 July 2020 14: 44 New
        +6
        You are tormented to look for customers.
      2. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 14: 50 New
        11
        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        With such experience managing IT projects, you can calmly stir up your company. There are probably acquaintances, you won’t drink experience, and the field of activity is promising.

        25+ years ago ... when I had my own microfirm ... I turned gray when I won it from those wishing bandos to take it from me soldier
        After 10 years, when the state was already trying (in the person of its representatives of the law enforcement agencies) again to take away my business from me - I lost it - but I PROMISED my wife that I would MORE go into business on my own "no foot" !!! stop

        My Zhinka loves me in independence, the businessman I'm al not there !!! drinks The most important thing for her is that the family always has money bully
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 14: 58 New
          -13
          Apparently, I don’t fly so high: there was not a single attempt to encroach on my insignificant firmochka. My friends have the same picture. I have a son, also an IT specialist, like you, was on free bread - freelancer, now the startup is raising with his comrades. Demanded, although his experience is shish yes kumysh. And the tendency not to hire 50+ is surprising, I’d better take the old bison than the young one. There will be more sense.
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 15: 03 New
            10
            Quote: AU Ivanov.
            Apparently, I don’t fly so high: there was not a single attempt to encroach on my insignificant firmochka. My friends have the same picture. I have a son, also an IT specialist, like you, was on free bread - freelancer, now the startup is raising with his comrades. Demanded, although his experience is shish yes kumysh. And the tendency not to hire 50+ is surprising, I’d better take the old bison than the young one. There will be more sense.

            Well, as soon as your "firm" has a monthly turnover - not profit - will go beyond half the evergreens = wait for the guests good

            Here you are right - for the last 15+ years I have been “flying in higher spheres” drinks But I do it like Papa Carlo - 16 hours a day for 9 months a year without days off and walk-throughs ... crying But he also got the norms !!! good
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 15: 12 New
              -8
              Fastest: there are tasty companies, but not very good ones. My turnover is more than lyam, but production is troublesome and hemorrhoids.
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 15: 18 New
                +4
                Quote: AU Ivanov.
                Fastest: there are tasty companies, but not very good ones. My turnover is more than lyam, but production is troublesome and hemorrhoids.

                It only means that you have "production, troublesome and hemorrhoids" drinks
                But if you consider the "standard company in the IT field" - everything seems to be simple wassat Change the boss to yours and "row the headstock with a shovel" laughing It seems to be ... there are no problems ... There is kolletiffff ... plows ... business something !!! change and conquer winked
                1. AU Ivanov.
                  AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 15: 28 New
                  -6
                  How long will such a firm survive without a Head? This is not a “buy-sell” with an accumulated base, in IT you need to think and catch trends.
                  1. Virus-free crown
                    Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 15: 32 New
                    +4
                    Quote: AU Ivanov.
                    How long will such a firm survive without a Head? This is not a “buy-sell” with an accumulated base, in IT you need to think and catch trends.

                    Duc, what does anyone think of such things when trying to select a business, that bandits, that state ?! laughing laughing laughing Here it is - "the chicken laying the golden eggs" - come and take it with your bare hands bully
  • Van 16
    Van 16 15 July 2020 13: 39 New
    12
    The state has won. Lost people. Conclusion - today's state is not for people, but for itself. More precisely, for those who are at the helm of the state.
    1. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 15: 21 New
      +5
      Quote: Van 16
      The state has won. Lost people. Conclusion - today's state is not for people, but for itself. More precisely, for those who are at the helm of the state.

      Nuuu ... about the state-va, I would not be so categorical ... hi How many people - able-bodied and contributing to the Russian economy - will “give up” and go “into the gray zone” ...
      1. Van 16
        Van 16 15 July 2020 15: 33 New
        +3
        That is yes. But, apparently, there is such a leadership that they consider only momentary benefits, but look beyond your own nose ..
        1. Virus-free crown
          Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 15: 35 New
          +4
          Quote: Van 16
          That is yes. But, apparently, there is such a leadership that they consider only momentary benefits, but look beyond your own nose ..

          Why should they look further than their nose ?! laughing
          "Enough for my age - and then even a flood" wassat
          1. Van 16
            Van 16 15 July 2020 15: 44 New
            +7
            Well, judging by the reset, some are going to rule forever .. smile
            1. Virus-free crown
              Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 15: 47 New
              +8
              Quote: Van 16
              Well, judging by the reset, some are going to rule forever .. smile

              I would clarify - not edit, but live lol Although the Constitution has already been amended that God is - they do not even realize that since there is God - then there is hell, and purgatory, and paradise ... laughing and that except hell nothing shines for them ... bully
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 15 July 2020 13: 40 New
    +9
    According to the Presidential !: There is no money, but you hold on ....
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 13: 43 New
    +5
    Quote: lubesky
    Quote: Lesovik
    So these people did not pay taxes ... But they used the entire social network, which was financed from the taxes of those who worked officially.

    And it turns out that the lack of OFFICIAL jobs with all taxes paid is the fault of your compatriots? Or is it their fault that they voluntarily do not pay taxes? And you are aware that for YOU for example - the employer does this and you yourself do not bother with taxes and the question is if taxes were your area of ​​responsibility - well, don’t know, don’t know - only your honest word in the reply that you still pay with ANY income and fill out the declaration ...

    I agree completely with you. Paying taxes is not up to the employee, it is up to the employer. But why in our country are such employers allowed to work?
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 13: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: Dym71
    Meanwhile, not only parasites, but also those who have worked hard for decades but have not been officially registered, receive a social pension, and this is a significant part of builders, agricultural workers, the sphere of trade, services and many other industries.

    Ilya, I would like to dwell on this place in more detail, it would be especially interesting to learn about "many other industries"! hi

    System of Internal Affairs Organs. With one word “Siloviki”
  • ifdru74
    ifdru74 15 July 2020 13: 55 New
    +4
    Quote: Lesovik
    As far as I can remember, in administrative work, people kept themselves to the last. As long as my health allowed, I don’t know anyone who would retire. And they can be understood - most often it’s rather “dusty”, quiet work with good pay.

    As for the calm and dusty administrative work, let me doubt it. In the case of an administrative position, you are responsible not only for yourself but also for subordinates. Even if it’s not you who placed them beautifully in the posts. And these are nerves. And if you are not lucky and there is no one to leave for yourself on vacation, then instead of lying on the beach or sightseeing you are always on the phone. Have you tried to set the task to people who completely do not understand it, or to people who are completely not interested in its successful completion? So well, what for such dustiness.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 15 July 2020 14: 37 New
      +7
      Quote: ifdru74
      Well, what for such dustiness.

      Yeah ... Two heart attacks, Not so dusty ....
    2. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: ifdru74
      Quote: Lesovik
      As far as I can remember, in administrative work, people kept themselves to the last. As long as my health allowed, I don’t know anyone who would retire. And they can be understood - most often it’s rather “dusty”, quiet work with good pay.

      As for the calm and dusty administrative work, let me doubt it. In the case of an administrative position, you are responsible not only for yourself but also for subordinates. Even if it’s not you who placed them beautifully in the posts. And these are nerves. And if you are not lucky and there is no one to leave for yourself on vacation, then instead of lying on the beach or sightseeing you are always on the phone. Have you tried to set the task to people who completely do not understand it, or to people who are completely not interested in its successful completion? So well, what for such dustiness.

      You probably confuse administrative work in a commercial company and in government agencies hi
      In com. to the company - departure with a wolf ticket forEven if it’s not you who placed them beautifully in the posts."but in the state structure -" yes even though the grass does not grow " bully the main thing is to give up the desired results on a piece of paper good
  • Valter1364
    Valter1364 15 July 2020 13: 57 New
    18
    There’s nothing to write about! I am born in 1964. Yes, I was deceived. They deceived my whole generation. But didn’t they deceive and throw previous generations? Who could be thrown, threw all! And do not flatter yourself in the future! (This is me to the youth). They will throw you too. Man, this is fuel for the needs of the state formation. Spent resource, this is unnecessary ballast. And ballast always goes overboard.
  • Sayan
    Sayan 15 July 2020 13: 57 New
    17
    This "reform" is not even a miscalculation, but the calculation - arrogant and cannibalistic - the government, as it was said in the film kin-dza-dza, is on a different planet hi
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 13: 59 New
    +3
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    Dig deeper! The first talk about the need for pension reform was made back when the Ryzhkov government was still under Mechenny.

    And now in power Ryzhkov and Tagged?
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 14: 01 New
      -16
      What difference does it make: anyone would have to carry out this reform anyway. Not to Putin, so to his successor. Wouldn’t go anywhere - demography, however.
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 12 New
        +4
        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        What difference does it make: anyone would have to carry out this reform anyway. Not to Putin, so to his successor. Wouldn’t go anywhere - demography, however.

        What nafik demography ?! am Money in Russia - heaps simply !!! good It’s just that the “Members of the Lake cooperative” should pay taxes in Russia according to the law - and for the next 50 years we can all live humanly !!!
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 14: 07 New
    11
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    What difference does it make: anyone would have to carry out this reform anyway. Not to Putin, so to his successor. Wouldn’t go anywhere - demography, however.

    Active reproduction of NPFs began under Putin. I did not transfer my savings to NPFs. Did they end up there? This is the trouble of the whole SYSTEM.
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 14: 41 New
      -11
      And what is wrong with NPF? I get my co-payment for retirement, just from the fund.
      1. Dzerjinskiy56
        Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 14: 57 New
        +5
        Nobody asked me if I wanted to go there or not. They simply took and transferred without my consent. And now, a criminal complaint has been brought to the head of the NPF Consent !!! Do you know what for? He stole pension money. And now the state needs me to recover the losses. Although not a fact that they will compensate.
  • ifdru74
    ifdru74 15 July 2020 14: 07 New
    13
    Pension reform was conceived by pests as well as monetization. In order to increase the flow of money into the right pocket. All reforms of the pension system are aimed at the gradual transformation of a transparent joint system into an absolutely confusing system of points, length of service, savings and retirement age. the most transparent, funded pension, does not work in falling markets. Therefore, new ideas arise. But the pests that voiced other people's ideas for the robbery of pensioners are dumb and cannot even see the most obvious flaws of these ideas. Therefore, when flaws become apparent, pests voice new ideas, sometimes more flawed than previous ones. Pests in the government of the Russian Federation, and not only the Russian Federation, are convinced that government spending should be reduced. Cost reduction for the sake of reliable storage (and upon theft) of money is known where it is their declared purpose. Unfortunately, they not only think so. So we stock up on eternal values ​​(at least stewed, salt, matches) and think with what we should approach the next pension reform. No one will ever offer the option of changing pests to normal ones, because these are “whoever needs” pests.
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 14: 09 New
    +5
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    What difference does it make: anyone would have to carry out this reform anyway. Not to Putin, so to his successor. Wouldn’t go anywhere - demography, however.

    Not the demographics matter. A stolen pension savings under Yeltsin
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 14: 18 New
      -11
      In the 70s, there were 3,8 workers per pensioner. Now only 1,3 Feel the difference, as they say.
      1. Dzerjinskiy56
        Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 14: 30 New
        11
        This is the effectiveness of the current system. Why does the state have the right to steal my seniority?
      2. RitaNik
        RitaNik 15 July 2020 14: 40 New
        12
        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        In the 70s, there were 3,8 workers per pensioner.

        Because the workers had work and social guarantees. How many unemployed are you up to now?
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 14: 44 New
          -12
          And how many self-employed do not pay a dime to the budget? Or working on "gray" schemes?
          1. Dzerjinskiy56
            Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 15: 08 New
            +6
            Where did these Gray Schemes come from? Where is the struggle with them? Or do our FTS not see how the floor of Moscow works for the minimum wage?)) Or maybe the state is already profitable?
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 15 July 2020 15: 26 New
            +7
            Quote: AU Ivanov.
            not paying a dime to the budget?

            Any self-employed person pays taxes of at least 30% of his income. VAT, all kinds of excise taxes, transport and land taxes. So do not be cunning. wink
            1. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 15: 36 New
              -9
              Shabashnik in the construction and repair of apartments pays? Does a freelance programmer pay to the MHIF, PFR and PIT? Maybe the renter shares the income from the rental of apartments. Garage auto mechanic? I have not heard.
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 15 July 2020 17: 16 New
                +2
                Quote: AU Ivanov.
                Shabashnik in the construction and repair of apartments pays? Does a freelance programmer pay to the MHIF, PFR and PIT? Maybe the renter shares the income from the rental of apartments. Garage auto mechanic? I have not heard.

                Honestly ... I opened a pack of popcorn and a stash from my wife in the form of a liter of beer ... I got comfortable ... drinks Waiting for a detailed answer, WHY ?! "Shabashnik in the construction and repair of apartments pays? Does a freelance programmer pay to the MHIF, PFR and PIT? Maybe the renter shares the income from the rental of apartments. Garage auto mechanic?"Why such a fright they DO NOT pay anywhere ?! repeat after all, according to your logic - it’s also profitable, because you pay !!! lol
            2. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 15 July 2020 15: 41 New
              -10
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Any self-employed pays taxes at least 30% of income. VAT, all kinds of excise taxes, transport and land taxes

              The crossed out word is superfluous. Everyone pays these taxes. Even homeless people laughing

              Quote: Ingvar 72
              So do not dissemble

              But what about themselves? wink
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 16 July 2020 07: 31 New
                +1
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                But what about themselves?

                And fathers, I thought no longer swim out. laughing Was a swimming teacher a good child or didn’t you have a natural talent? wink
                On the topic - what do I dissemble?
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 16 July 2020 11: 09 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  On the topic - what do I dissemble?

                  The word "self-employed" is superfluous.

                  All is already written ... my friend yes
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 16 July 2020 11: 57 New
                    +1
                    How did the superfluous word become deceitful? The ability to think logically has finally left you?
                    The conversation was precisely about the self-employed.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 16 July 2020 12: 44 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      How did the superfluous word become deceitful?

                      Elementary Watson.

                      - homeless people, by all accounts, do not pay taxes
                      - but what you listed there is paid by homeless people

                      It's not about the taxes that you listed there. This is "craftiness" (I would call it differently. But the moderator will be against it).

                      Everything is simple, as always. Economizd laughing
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 16 July 2020 14: 06 New
                        0
                        Common sense has left you! If I emphasized the self-employed without mentioning the homeless, then I am cunning? belay
                        Have you been drinking godlessly in a bathhouse?
                      2. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 16 July 2020 14: 54 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Common sense has left you

                        Not small, not me ...

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I emphasized the self-employed without mentioning the homeless

                        Neither one nor the other (in your opinion, if) does not pay - neither the UST nor the MHIF ... and then, the female dog, they want to make a medicine ...

                        Stroybat, you and I have long discussed everything. Do not go into the bottle, otherwise I’ll buy one more - provided that you’ll get into it. laughing
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 15 July 2020 15: 32 New
          +8
          You might think that people voluntarily agree to gray schemes ... In most cases, there is no choice, neither the employee nor the employer .. Not everyone in our country is able to pay taxes on white ..
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. RitaNik
          RitaNik 15 July 2020 20: 36 New
          +6
          Quote: AU Ivanov.
          And how many self-employed do not pay a dime to the budget? Or working on "gray" schemes?

          So the point is not in demography, but in the economic model? That's right, in the USSR there was an economy, now - chrematistics (according to Aristotle).
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 15 July 2020 15: 33 New
      +5
      And what - labor productivity and the level of automation, we also remained as in the 70s ??
  • Valter1364
    Valter1364 15 July 2020 14: 45 New
    +1
    Pasha Grachev, the deceased knew where the loot from the PF had gone.
  • Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish 15 July 2020 14: 14 New
    13
    All who served urgent in the Soviet Union were reset. Military service is no longer counted in pensionable seniority. Congratulations to all of you!
    1. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 14: 30 New
      -10
      Who told you that? 173 Federal Laws and 400 Federal Laws have not been canceled.
      1. Dzerjinskiy56
        Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 14: 46 New
        +6
        Send you an extract from the FIU? I’m 37 years old and 5 years 5 months of work experience. Based on their logic, I’m “parasite.” Although I serve and work since 17 years. Once I got burned during employment on this !!! I was asked “why did you lie that you served in the Bodies?” Indeed, it was as if for 20 years he had been in a coma and had not worked and had not served !!
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 15: 07 New
          -8
          Very strange. The Ministry of Internal Affairs is a government agency, not a one-day company, the archives should contain evidence of your service. This year, a friend went ahead of schedule in terms of harmfulness (engineer of the Russian Railways locomotive); everything is transparent with him, starting from studies at a technical school, service in the SA, and then through the years of work. Up to a temporary transfer to the assistant drivers for the jambs in the work - everything is in the PFR database.
          1. Dzerjinskiy56
            Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 15: 24 New
            +5
            UIS MJ RF. All employees who served in the pension fund do not make contributions. If you work out the length of service in the organs and retire there is no fraud. And if you resigned earlier then the FIU may not count them at all !! But banks and SB firms sometimes look at the experience of the applicant there.
          2. Dzerjinskiy56
            Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 15: 30 New
            +4
            Such a problem exists in people who started their career in 2001. My colleague in organs also did not count 8 years in the FSIN
        2. Mishka78
          Mishka78 15 July 2020 17: 17 New
          +4
          +1 I am 42. The time of study at the VVUZ + service after in the PF of the Russian Federation does not appear. There is simply nothing. My career begins after leaving the RF Armed Forces in 2004.
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 14: 23 New
    +5
    Quote: Old Horseradish
    All who served urgent in the Soviet Union were reset. Military service is no longer counted in pensionable seniority. Congratulations to all of you!

    Not only the CA but also in the RA, it is not considered.
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 14: 27 New
    +8
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    In the 70s, there were 3,8 workers per pensioner. Now only 1,3 Feel the difference, as they say.
    There is a difference . A deputy with 3 years of experience receives a pension. For what merits and how much?) This has recently been tweaked !!! Previously, with Alkasha and with GDP, only a year was needed to assign a pension. How many ordinary grandmothers can be kept on their retirement?
  • DPN
    DPN 15 July 2020 14: 29 New
    +4
    He won the GDP, he was the kindest. The love of the people is worth a lot.
  • vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 15 July 2020 14: 33 New
    +1
    Quote: Dzerjinskiy56
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    What difference does it make: anyone would have to carry out this reform anyway. Not to Putin, so to his successor. Wouldn’t go anywhere - demography, however.

    Not the demographics matter. A stolen pension savings under Yeltsin

    Well, why only under Yeltsin?
    1. Dzerjinskiy56
      Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 15: 12 New
      +1
      Well, the pension fund was zeroed out all the same with him. But should we care about citizens at all? Why did we pay the IMF for USSR debts? And the state does not want to repay the debt to the citizens of the USSR?
      1. Mishka78
        Mishka78 15 July 2020 17: 19 New
        +6
        There was no zeroing of the pension fund. There was no fund. And there was no accumulation. Pensions were paid directly from the budget. A wash pad in the form of PF was invented already in the Russian Federation, after the collapse of the country.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 15 July 2020 14: 38 New
    +5
    Only officials extended their right to cling to warm armchairs. The example of the Soviet partocracy, over which they quipped because of their age in the early 90s, has been realized and justified according to the full program for those in power today.
  • vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 15 July 2020 14: 41 New
    +3
    Quote: Dzerjinskiy56
    This is the effectiveness of the current system. Why does the state have the right to steal my seniority?

    Because we have such a state. And it has the right to everything.
  • Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 15 July 2020 14: 49 New
    +5
    Quote: Dym71
    Meanwhile, not only parasites, but also those who have worked hard for decades but have not been officially registered, receive a social pension, and this is a significant part of builders, agricultural workers, the sphere of trade, services and many other industries.

    Ilya, I would like to dwell on this place in more detail, it would be especially interesting to learn about "many other industries"! hi

    About other industries? - easy! From 1997 to 2005 - a merchant and fishing fleet sailor, position - Head of the Ship Radio Station (SHRM) in labor is empty, paid only in cash in hand. For shipping offices or gangster or so were. 2005 - 2013 - computer graphics artist (architectural visualization), interior designer - it’s more expensive to open an IP, because earnings are not regular .. and they didn’t live that way. 2013-2015 architectural design - s / n strongly "gray". 2015 to the present day is also connected with 3D - the salary is two-thirds “gray”. will arrange such options?
  • Valter1364
    Valter1364 15 July 2020 14: 52 New
    +4
    I have one friend. For all his life he has never been at work anywhere and has not paid a penny of taxes to the state. He lives normally, he has provided for all children and grandchildren.
    During my work in business, I paid the state in the form of taxes, almost half a billion rubles.
    As a result, I am sitting at the bottom exactly and no one is knocking from below.
    Worth considering! recourse
    1. Dzerjinskiy56
      Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 15: 17 New
      +1
      I saw all kinds of businessmen. Those who throw their hard workers on the RFP. But they pay taxes like you.
      1. Valter1364
        Valter1364 15 July 2020 15: 36 New
        +4
        So I am not a businessman in your understanding, since the last few years I have been living on a residual basis, i.e. first to employees, then to myself. Although there are already employees on the fingers of one hand, and things are still there. Manufacturing and certified fleet maintenance services are dying. I'm not the only one. Everything around is dead. Shipowners save on everything that is possible and impossible. This cannot go on for long. Do you think technological disasters and transport accidents come from?
        1. Dzerjinskiy56
          Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 15: 41 New
          +1
          I didn’t specifically write about you. And the fact that for many businesses is based on the throwing of employees and the payment of salaries according to gray schemes
          1. Valter1364
            Valter1364 15 July 2020 15: 44 New
            +2
            This is all over the place, and don’t go to the grandmother! It’s easier and easier to live like this. Therefore, even more offensive. You bring benefits, you try, but the state wiped your feet about you and didn’t even notice it.
            1. Dzerjinskiy56
              Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 15: 46 New
              0
              Would you like to work at a ship repair enterprise (state) for a good salary ratio?
              1. Valter1364
                Valter1364 15 July 2020 15: 58 New
                +8
                I studied at NVIMU to work on the ships of the USSR merchant fleet. Four years in the NMP. And then the whole fleet was stolen. So I had to wander to different offices. Now the Norwegians, then the Swedes, then the sheikh in Saudi Arabia.
                I am a product of the Soviet Union, with all its pros and cons. From childhood, I was taught to benefit my country and given a free and excellent education.
                The Novorossiysk Shipyard is only on paper. Nominally, it is not closed due to its special tax status, etc. Although it has long been turned into a commercial metal transshipment site.
                I answer your question. Of course I would like to work at a state enterprise!
                Only there are none nearby. Kerch "Bay"? Communicated not so long ago with the authorities. They are there, as in a blockade under sanctions.
                1. Dzerjinskiy56
                  Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 16: 06 New
                  +5
                  So I'm talking about too. They sold everything to private owners. Run around, beg them to pay taxes. Such industries should be in the hands of the state and there will be fewer problems !!! Only the state should be like the USSR and not the USA. They throw it in the order of things
                  1. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 16: 21 New
                    -8
                    In the USA, it’s just that the average pension is $ 1500, plus the funded pension for those who care about it. So, let it be better, as in the States.
                    1. Dzerjinskiy56
                      Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 16: 49 New
                      +3
                      Well, they see tax works. And we just settle scores with competitors! Do you see the difference?
                    2. Dzerjinskiy56
                      Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 16: 55 New
                      +2
                      With a competent approach, we can pay more !!!
                    3. Dzerjinskiy56
                      Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 17: 04 New
                      0
                      Do you know the stock market?
  • vit670
    vit670 15 July 2020 14: 59 New
    15
    Quote: AU Ivanov.
    In the 70s, there were 3,8 workers per pensioner. Now only 1,3 Feel the difference, as they say.

    And what does the number of workers have to do with me? You pay me a pension from my money that my employer deducted for me for 42 years! Where did my deductions evaporate? They stole it, and now they count how many people work for me. And where did the money of the untimely dead go? And there are so many such, I think more than half of the pensioners? All my life, about 40 deductions went to them and where did they go after the death of a penny at 60 - 65 years old?
    1. Dzerjinskiy56
      Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 17: 17 New
      +4
      I will tell you a secret !! They work (money) of these pensioners in the stock markets !!! The most crooked trader calmly makes 20-30 percent per annum of them. Only this money is not for the country and pensioners work !!!
      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 17: 56 New
        -6
        So this money was stolen or is it turned on the market? You already decide.
        1. Essex62
          Essex62 19 July 2020 08: 36 New
          0
          They were stolen and turned on the market as their own and profit, respectively, to the thief.
  • Nikolay73
    Nikolay73 15 July 2020 15: 25 New
    -1
    I will express an unpopular point of view, but it’s mine, and so, whether or not to increase the retirement age is not necessary to discuss because it has already been done, but the measures that need to be taken in connection with this are possible. I consider it necessary to “stretch” the term for increasing the retirement age by ten years, maybe more so as not to create shock effects and have time to develop and implement employment programs for the age group of citizens, to hold a wide discussion in society and relevant structures.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 15 July 2020 15: 32 New
    +7
    Hmm .... somehow they are not lucky with the rulers .. They do not know how to keep their word ... One promised to lie on the rails, did not lay down, the second, like until I’m the president of raising the retirement age .. And most importantly, people believe liars, re-elects, expresses confidence .. In the hope that the tsar-priest will not deceive more ... smile
    1. Nikolay73
      Nikolay73 15 July 2020 15: 43 New
      -1
      Strange, that is, do you think the people are reelecting? And they say - falsification ... so who are we with no luck, with the king or with the people? :)
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 15 July 2020 15: 48 New
        +6
        And who are you out of luck? Are you from the boyars, probably?
        so with whom are we unlucky, with the king or with the people? :)
        smile You are lucky with the people and the king ...
        1. Nikolay73
          Nikolay73 16 July 2020 10: 54 New
          0
          I was glad for myself (I’m asking for a hat, though I don’t know who), although in the boyar, according to your words, I managed to make a dash! :) And whose will you be? :)
    2. Mishka78
      Mishka78 15 July 2020 17: 22 New
      +6
      The one that you have second, also promised to not change the Constitution for yourself. Brains, says you need to change, not the Constitution :)
    3. your1970
      your1970 17 July 2020 19: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      Somehow, no luck with the rulers .. They do not know how to keep their word.

      NSH-promised communism by the 2000th
      MSG- promised an apartment to everyone by the 2000th
  • igorra
    igorra 15 July 2020 15: 41 New
    +8
    He used to take Putin as a statesman, all the same, if you face the truth, who pulled us and the country out of the ass, but also a little like a Man. After the pension scam, as a person, he personally died for me. As an actor, antipathy appears, we will see. Most likely it will end as Brezhnev.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 15 July 2020 16: 11 New
    +7
    There was a crown of an old-fashioned undertaking (since 2003) under the name “Pension Fund of Russia”, in fact a certain LLC, to which the government entrusted the government to increase people's money forcibly deducted in the form of insurance taxes.
    And now: "Well, I couldn’t ..."
    Only to admit it somehow is not comme il faut, even if the sky smokes further, feeding also from the budget, and the problem is somehow postponed for later, all of a sudden, while there is football, here and there, the Crimean bridge will resolve itself ... And sweaty Siluanov it will become easier to make ends meet ..
    But the people are dissatisfied, well, Father, part of his authority (whether in vain did 75% get the rating?) Will put him into action, will ask him to enter the position ... Medvedev, Siluanova, Kudrin, Golikova ... Nabiulina again ... After all, it’s also hard for them! Just think, well, three percent will lose the rating, how many of them - 63rd year of birth - will be tolerated! And the Finance Ministry and Drozdov easier! And you don’t need to look for Mintz in London.
    As the great Corsican used to say: "This is worse than a crime, this is a mistake!"
    1. BAI
      BAI 15 July 2020 20: 58 New
      +1
      As the great Corsican used to say: "This is worse than a crime, this is a mistake!"

      This is not the Corsican who spoke, but his minister - Tayleran.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 15 July 2020 16: 15 New
    +5
    Quote: Dzerjinskiy56
    Well, the pension fund was zeroed out all the same with him.

    The Pension Fund was created under Putin. Prior to this, the Ministry of Finance was engaged in pensions through Sobes, and under Yeltsin, pensions were simply delayed or not paid. Especially not bothering with any justifications or stories and plans.
  • U-58
    U-58 15 July 2020 17: 01 New
    +9
    Losing confidence in the government? That is yes.
    On an emotional level. The voting results show the opposite. Everyone likes everything, everyone is happy, or at least satisfied.
    But I'm talking about something else. About the general mood in society, in the "deep people" about this rehvorma.
    And the mood is a whole range. From hopelessness to bitterness. And not only among pre-pensioners. To a large extent this is observed in front-pensioners.
    Most importantly, people do not believe in any good intentions of the government. And will not believe in the future.
    Such sentiments should not be predominant in a healthy society. And the fact that they still prevail speaks of impending social problems
    1. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 16 July 2020 09: 51 New
      +1
      The voting results show the opposite. Everyone likes everything, everyone is happy, or at least satisfied.

      This is not a vote!
      These are the results of the calculations!
  • Dzerjinskiy56
    Dzerjinskiy56 15 July 2020 17: 31 New
    +2
    If anyone is interested, count !!! Go to the PFR website in the pension calculator section and set the conditions for a young man of 18 years of age starting his career ZP 50000 rubles. What kind of pension does the pension promise him. fund? And then don’t be too lazy to turn on the bank deposit yield calculator. Set the conditions that every month it replenishes the account for 10000r. Yield, let's say 20 percent per annum !!!! Because for a stock market trader, this is easy to do. Look at the numbers !! For over 20 years, the bank calculator will not count, but I advise you to count for 45 years !!! Just hold on tight to the chair. Interesting numbers come out. Do not be too lazy to count. Then you will have questions
    1. Nikolay73
      Nikolay73 16 July 2020 11: 28 New
      +1
      Let's not talk about traders, maybe for those who are not aware of these fables, they will pass, but this, to put it mildly, does not correspond to reality. And yet, you forget that the RF PF is not only the pension of one individual person. Another thing is that now for a person starting his working life he needs to independently develop his financial strategy and this is a fact with which you can not argue.
      1. Dzerjinskiy56
        Dzerjinskiy56 16 July 2020 12: 35 New
        0
        And what is the fable? What tool do NPFs use? NPFs are engaged in speculation on the fund market and investment in securities. Or do you think that just so your savings there increase?
        1. Nikolay73
          Nikolay73 16 July 2020 14: 54 New
          0
          Fables about traders with a yield of 20% per annum over the next 40 years ... Tell me, do you have accurate data on assets and their profitability and the portfolio of the RF PF? If so, share it or give a source, I'll see for myself ... now is not about what I think, are you affirming or expressing your personal opinion?
          1. Dzerjinskiy56
            Dzerjinskiy56 20 July 2020 10: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Nikolay73
            Fables about traders with a yield of 20% per annum over the next 40 years ... Tell me, do you have accurate data on assets and their profitability and the portfolio of the RF PF? If so, share it or give a source, I'll see for myself ... now is not about what I think, are you affirming or expressing your personal opinion?

            This is my opinion, plus a little experience. Stock markets have become available to us not so long ago. Therefore, for the perspective of 40 years, I will not say for sure.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 15 July 2020 18: 47 New
    -11
    Quote: Crown without virus
    Quote: Wend

    So I say, it depends on the profession and on the company. Yes, it’s possible to retire and work, but if a person is ready to work in retirement, then it will not matter to him whether he will leave at 60 or 65, he would have worked for these 5 years.

    And if you are NOT ready ?! repeat And if he also raised his grandchildren in retirement, while the parents of the grandchildren plow like damned, at least to provide for their children normally?

    And what in the 90s on the arrows did not work so much? Or is everything on casino whores gone? Have you heard about karma? So you drove the arrows in the 90s, and now you want to help the respectable grandfather and grandchildren? Not a bit of pity and compassion for you .... Further I quote
    ------
    "Child" is ... turned gray on the arrow 25+ years ago bully
    And then - in civil matters and not so - as a party to "defense" or "attack" - participated in the lawsuits ... So ... it doesn’t matter where to speak - on the arrow or in the court - but for your words " pulled "and there and there laughing wink
    Therefore, I communicate everywhere, so that no one would pull me anywhere - experience, sir, you know ...
  • Old partisan
    Old partisan 15 July 2020 20: 14 New
    +6
    A man of 63 years of age will not retire at work so and die
  • BAI
    BAI 15 July 2020 20: 53 New
    -1
    Judging by the pros and cons, the general trend of readers of the Reform is Evil site. If someone even partially disagrees with this, then this is Putin’s Troll. Cool "discussion". Although it was necessary to scream a few years ago, when civil servants were retired at 65. And this translation shows that the increase in the retirement age was conceived a very long time ago. This is not a spontaneous decision. And now - a simple implementation of the Constitution, which recently successfully ruled. All are equal before the law. All retired at 65. Both civil servants and miners (if they do not have preferential seniority). Well, except for certain categories prescribed by law.
    In principle, I would not be surprised if it turned out that the main goal of the World Cup in football was precisely the announcement of the reform. So to say, do not wait for an opportunity for the announcement, but create it yourself.
    But I repeat it again. In the reform, for me personally, there are pluses and minuses. You can throw cons again.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 15 July 2020 22: 04 New
    +4
    pension reform is a knife in the back of the people, I was fired (they didn’t extend the university’s associate professor's contract) at 52, I couldn’t get anywhere for two years, I took on an old job, but now I’m paid 5 times less so I think it’s easy to leave, there’s a good thing your business. (and what to do with the elderly who don’t have it ????) So gentlemen, confident enthusiasts don’t promise too much .. youth and quicker savvy, experience can be earned in a month, but not more than a year. in any specialty, .. I myself am an employer, I see the difference and consider my money, youth is preferable in all areas, now an old man of 50-60 works for me at a price of 150 rubles per hour, I just feel sorry for the person and the youth wants 180-200 per hour and therefore I give him work . and in the fall of work he will no longer have where to go to him?
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 15 July 2020 22: 32 New
    +3
    The grandchildren of grandfathers and grandmothers, who were forced to work for a piece of bread, lost. So the connection between generations is breaking. I hope that for the adoption and approval of the anti-people reform, all those guilty will be rewarded according to their deserts and will fry them in hell in a pan without a break and a weekend.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 15 July 2020 23: 17 New
    -8
    Everyone won, more hands will be.
    1. Vikxnumx
      Vikxnumx 16 July 2020 09: 47 New
      +1
      Everyone won, more hands will be.

      And work with ZP?
      Just work and so rampart! I just want to eat!
  • al252ex
    al252ex 15 July 2020 23: 26 New
    +2
    We have a capitalist state. At the heart of capitalism is profit. The state has raped money from all of us, at least 800 rubles each has been calculated. Nothing personal is just money.