Military Review

In Russia, they created an electric motor based on superconductivity

162
In Russia, they created an electric motor based on superconductivity

An electric propulsion system based on high-temperature superconductivity technologies has been created in Russia. As stated in the Foundation for Advanced Research, Russian experts were the first in the world to test this installation, which is fully powered by a battery.


As explained, this system is planned to be used as part of the experimental aviation a hybrid power plant developed by the Central Institute of Aviation Motors named after Baranov. Installation tests are scheduled for this and next year.

Within the framework of a joint project of the Advanced Research Foundation and CJSC SuperOx, laboratory tests of the elements of an aviation integrated electric power system based on a single high-temperature superconducting (HTSC) platform consisting of a battery, HTSC cable, HTSC current limiting device and HTSC electric motor were carried out for the first time in the world.

- said the press service of the FPI, adding that during the tests, the engine was powered exclusively by a specially designed battery.

As the FPI explained, the project to create a high-temperature electric motor on superconductors has been implemented since December 2016. To demonstrate the capabilities of the technology, samples of electric motors with a capacity of 50 kW and 500 kW were developed. The project is being implemented as part of a program to create all-electric aircraft and helicopters.
Photos used:
Advanced Research Foundation
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 15 July 2020 08: 15 New
    13
    Of course, I would like to see factories producing these engines ...
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 15 July 2020 08: 22 New
      14
      Within the framework of a joint project of the Advanced Research Foundation and CJSC SuperOx, laboratory tests of the elements of an aviation integrated electric power system based on a single high-temperature superconducting (HTSC) platform consisting of a battery, HTSC cable, HTSC current limiting device and HTSC electric motor were carried out for the first time in the world.


      Engines based on superconductivity, and similar other elements of the system, this is very good, even SUPER, but still the "bottleneck" in it is accumulators.

      Here is the one who will create the power source cheap, lightweight, capacious, durable and reliable, he will be the "King of the Hill", he will grab luck by the tail yes .
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 15 July 2020 08: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: Insurgent
        Here is the one who creates a cheap, light, capacious, durable and reliable power source, he will be the "King of the Hill", he will grab luck by the tail

        Kerosene workers will not give. Until oil and gas are transferred, everything will remain the same. Reducing battery power consumption for the same work done, at least deserves attention.
        1. Hagalaz
          Hagalaz 15 July 2020 09: 20 New
          +3
          Well, that they won’t give it, of course, it was said strongly, but I removed everything to you, because there is such a possibility. Especially if the situation becomes disruptive. Who wants to lose both capital and profit. Well, what’s wrong with that? The economy does not like sudden changes. Here, investments should pay off and massively throw workers out of the industry, but for a short period it is also not good. I think this would also apply to the socialist economy.
          1. NIKN
            NIKN 15 July 2020 10: 33 New
            +4
            Quote: Hagalaz
            Well, that they won’t give it, of course, it was said strongly, but I removed everything to you, because there is such a probability. Especially if the situation becomes breakthrough. Who wants to lose both capital and profit?

            Well, I also took off your minus smile And who are the kerosene workers? China will not particularly resist (pressure doesn’t particularly affect it, it is in 7th place in oil production), so you won’t crush it, and it’s more likely to seize the market in this segment (non-oil) and it’s unlikely to miss this possibility.
            1. Hagalaz
              Hagalaz 15 July 2020 13: 00 New
              +3
              And I agree with you hi . Keep China out of our research smile .
              Then we will outline the situation in such a way, if the oilmen had the opportunity, they will gladly steal the competitive developments. But you can’t hide the sew in the bag and take your progress.
              1. krillon
                krillon 15 July 2020 21: 25 New
                0
                Do you think they stand still? Their electric powered mining trucks are mass-produced.
            2. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 15 July 2020 16: 12 New
              +3
              Quote: NIKNN
              And who are the kerosene workers?

              This is a version of a conspiracy theory about the all-powerful oil tycoons who stifle all developments in the field of alternative energy. Usually used by completely "alternative" comrades busy with the invention perpetual motion machine "free energy devices". For some reason, it does not occur to them that in addition to the oil business, there are no less serious forces that are interested in reducing fuel costs. And that at one time the coal lobby did not prevent the switch to oil.
        2. Prisoner
          Prisoner 15 July 2020 10: 04 New
          +5
          What does the "kerosene people" have to do with it? what The law of conservation of energy will not.
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 15 July 2020 10: 23 New
            +5
            Quote: Captive
            The law of conservation of energy will not.

            Who do you think consumes more energy in the same light, a Ladygin lamp or LED? How are energy-saving lamps different from Ilyich’s lamps? What is superconductivity and what are the energy losses compared to ordinary ones - more or less? laughing
            1. Prisoner
              Prisoner 15 July 2020 10: 59 New
              +1
              winked H-Yes. what Have you read Shukshin's story "Cut"? Check it out, interesting! laughing
            2. +5
              +5 15 July 2020 18: 07 New
              -1
              And otkudova enta energy to take that, al?
        3. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 15 July 2020 10: 18 New
          +1
          An example is Norway. Slightly less than 50% of sales are electric cars this year. Too lazy to look for which year they will switch completely to electric traction.
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 10: 35 New
            +9
            According to Norway: electric traction is more a political decision than an economic one. Greenpeace and other eco-friendly.
            1. Victorio
              Victorio 15 July 2020 12: 12 New
              +1
              Quote: AU Ivanov.
              According to Norway: electric traction is more a political decision than an economic one. Greenpeace and other eco-friendly.

              ===
              Yes, even a big moshna, they can afford
          2. Marconi41
            Marconi41 15 July 2020 11: 26 New
            +2
            Quote: tralflot1832
            An example is Norway. Slightly less than 50% of sales are electric cars this year. Too lazy to look for which year they will switch completely to electric traction.

            You look at the map. How much is that Norway. If you decide to go from St. Petersburg to Sochi by e-mail. How much will you get your mobile phone taking into account recharging? Better combined machines.
          3. +5
            +5 15 July 2020 18: 09 New
            +2
            Norway is a petromonarchy, exporting hydrocarbons per capita 11 (eleven) times more than Russia. Plus, thousands of mountain rivers and 80% of generation at hydroelectric power stations ... Anything can be there, but there is no other such country ...
            1. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 15 July 2020 18: 18 New
              0
              I liked Norway just for cleanliness. I was simply surprised in the 2000s that they had one of the most killed fleets in Europe. It was easy to see rarities of the 70s and 80s. It was similar to recycling and lending. And now they promised financial buns, so they will change.
              1. +5
                +5 15 July 2020 18: 21 New
                +2
                Once again, if you have a lot of dough, then cleanliness, satiety and well-being in the air is the norm, not a merit ... Although their loot, including pension, is stored in garbage bins .... So we will see what happens to the country after badabum on the fund
                1. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 15 July 2020 18: 33 New
                  0
                  Today's statement by the Norwegian ambassador that they helped us in Norilsk and for that please do not fly to Norway. They probably feel the cord is coming. Urals has become more expensive than their oil today. Soil is being probed for a bonus?. Who got up before and slippers!
                  1. +5
                    +5 15 July 2020 19: 16 New
                    +2
                    You don’t understand what kirdyk is ... They, like the Gulf petrodespots, are allowed to spend only part of the proceeds from oil and gas on dues, the rest needs to be invested ... where you can’t get it out of now ... Although the fish and hydroelectric power stations will remain, but paradise it will not be
                    1. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 15 July 2020 19: 29 New
                      +1
                      I just realized that the Norwegian fund came out of Russia and obviously he didn’t invest money in China. He might lose it to save the gigemons of democracy. Venisuela’s experience to help them. And before that, sheikhs were robbed of impudent sheikhs a long time ago in the oil crisis. People have short memories.
                    2. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 15 July 2020 20: 53 New
                      0
                      Now Pnempen, fie Pompeo has come forward who will not run away from the Nord Stream, we will rob without noise and dust, then the states are under control. Europe has not had time to introduce its settlement banking system. Until now, we will see. ?
        4. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 15 July 2020 10: 31 New
          -5
          Quote: Boris55
          Kerosene workers will not give. Until oil and gas are transferred, everything will remain the same. Reducing battery power consumption for the same work done, at least deserves attention.

          Putin said that the transition to alternative energy is a threat to the Russian Federation.
        5. astepanov
          astepanov 15 July 2020 11: 04 New
          12
          Quote: Boris55
          Kerosene workers will not give. Until oil and gas are transferred, everything will remain the same.

          No need to build conspiracy theories, especially since you are not in the subject. Much of the research in the field of energy storage is funded by the "kerosene industry". The question is: WHY is work being done on a superconducting engine and WHY is it on an airplane?
          It is not necessary to think that today we have on the best batteries 0,18 kWh / kg of energy, and tomorrow scientists will give out 3 kWh / kg - like kerosene, taking into account the efficiency of the engine. This will never happen, because nature forbids. The highest energies are provided by the elements of the first or second periods of the periodic table, located in the first, third and fifth to seventh groups, and they are counted out once or twice. In theory, yes, even a pair of zinc-oxygen can give one and a half kilowatt hours per kilogram of battery mass, but this is in terms of zinc and oxygen. But the battery still has a case, separators, collectors, electrolyte, electrical connections and auxiliary materials - and as a result, from 1,5 kWh / kg there remains 0,1.
          Exotic current sources with a specific energy of about 1 kWh / kg, for example, lithium thionyl chloride, are known (and used in the defense industry), but they work irreversibly, i.e. single-use, extremely dangerous (explode no worse than solid checkers) and have low power. And from batteries more than 0,3 kWh / kg we can’t wait. In theory, you can get very large energy from fuel batteries, but the complexity of the design, the need for platinum catalysts, low power, heavy cylinders (if hydrogen is used as fuel) put an end to them.
          So lithium-ion is the only option for the coming years. And there, you see, sources with sodium or pure lithium anodes will catch up and get 0,4 kWh / kg - and that’s all. Kerosene will still remain incomparably richer in energy.
          I absolutely do not understand why a superconducting engine is needed. Efficiency of the electric motor in any case is about 90%, and there is not much to gain from superconductivity in the energy sector. But current high-temperature superconductors operate at boiling hydrogen temperatures. This means the need for a cryogenic installation on board, which, due to obvious reasons, will gobble up all the advantages of a superconducting engine.
          Maybe there is some incredible breakthrough in the field of HTSC, which we are not told about? But then Aerotaxi is pah, a trifle in comparison with the practical implementation of HTSC.
          1. A1845
            A1845 15 July 2020 12: 06 New
            +3
            Quote: astepanov
            I don’t understand why a superconducting engine is needed.
            this is not the first discussion on the site, there was an assumption that this topic will shoot in drones, when you need to quietly fly for a while on an electric engine and then recharge from kerosene. The electric motor itself turns out to be quite compact, but is the game worth the candle (taking into account other equipment)?
            1. Bersaglieri
              Bersaglieri 15 July 2020 18: 21 New
              0
              There is one more "bastard" - "the" square-cube "rule" :)
          2. Bersaglieri
            Bersaglieri 15 July 2020 18: 20 New
            0
            That's it. "specific capacity" (c) is the "" that "kills young innovations" :)
          3. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 16 July 2020 22: 47 New
            -2
            Quote: astepanov
            No need to build conspiracy theories, especially since you are not in the subject. Much of the research in the field of energy storage is funded by the "kerosene industry".

            Right. "You can not win the lead."
            All developments are under control, in one folder. Developers are fed, they are developers, developers. They are not manufacturers. Done, received money, do more ...
        6. Aibolit
          Aibolit 15 July 2020 12: 01 New
          +5
          Quote: Boris55
          Kerosene workers will not give

          В liter Gasoline contains 34 MJ of energy of approximately 9.44 kWh. Efficiency of an internal combustion engine car 30% (costs a lot, works idle)
          repeat
          The density of gasoline is about 0,71 g / cm³

          Rulers of lithium-sulfur batteries (Li-S) specific capacity at the level of one cell in 300-350 W • h /kgapproximately 90%
          9 440: 0,71 * 0,3 = 3 989 W * h / kg versus 350 * 0.9 = 315 W * h / kg
          3 989 W * h / kg (kerosene) vs 315 W * h / kg (electricians)
          Quote: Boris55
          Reducing battery power consumption for the same work done, by

          Superconducting motor: no loss means a design efficiency of 99,9% with a heat loss of not more than 1%

          standard ED - according to IEC 60034-31: 2010, four efficiency classes for synchronous and asynchronous motors are defined: IE1, IE2, IE3 and IE4
          1. Polymer
            Polymer 15 July 2020 15: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: Aibolit
            Superconducting motor: no loss means a design efficiency of 99,9% with a heat loss of not more than 1%

            Does 1% include friction losses? Fantastic!
            1. DED_peer_DED
              DED_peer_DED 16 July 2020 22: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Polymer
              Fantastic!

              Electromagnetic bearings. Friction is only about air.
              1. Polymer
                Polymer 17 July 2020 04: 27 New
                0
                Quote: DED_peer_DED
                Electromagnetic bearings

                Which eat an extra mass of energy and drop the efficiency to the level of the baseboard? In addition - this is an additional mass, plus heat loss - because yes, they are also heated. In general, it makes sense to use electromagnetic bearings when there is a need for very high rotation speeds, and you can not pay attention to energy consumption.
          2. astepanov
            astepanov 15 July 2020 19: 15 New
            +1
            Quote: Aibolit
            Rulers of lithium-sulfur batteries (Li-S) specific capacity at the level of one cell in 300-350 W • h / kg, efficiency about 90%
            Suppose that the lithium-sulfur system does not have an efficiency of 90% - if you do not take into account the discharge mode C / 10. Thick membranes, unfavorable discharge kinetics ... And in order to power the aircraft engine for 10 hours, you need a battery so hefty that the plane will not take off.
        7. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 15 July 2020 12: 30 New
          +3
          Quote: Boris55
          Until oil and gas are transferred, everything will remain the same.

          As before, everything will remain if diphenhydramine is taken with an energy drink. yes And here ... There are a lot of areas, except for the "gasoline-kerosene", for which oil and gas are required on an industrial scale. And at this stage, the "kerosene workers" have nothing to worry about yet.
      2. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 10: 11 New
        +3
        The bottleneck of engines based on superconductivity is their cooling system.
        1. vvnab
          vvnab 15 July 2020 10: 29 New
          +1
          Prepare for very "warm" materials.
          https://youtu.be/vlhcCG7mUZM
      3. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 15 July 2020 11: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Insurgent
        Superconducting motors and similar other elements of the system are very good, even SUPER, but the "bottleneck" in it is still the batteries ...

        Here is the one who creates a cheap, light, capacious, durable and reliable power source, he will be the "King of the Hill", he will grab luck by the tail

        There are nuclear batteries, and there the capacity and charge are normal.
        1. Bersaglieri
          Bersaglieri 20 July 2020 11: 40 New
          0
          No. There are RTGs. There is a small amount of brainwash, and biosecurity will "eat" everything :)
      4. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 15 July 2020 16: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Insurgent
        Superconducting motors and similar other elements of the system are very good, even SUPER, but the "bottleneck" in it is still the batteries ...

        There is such an assumption that if you decide to move on water, then you either need to learn how to swim, or build a structure that will swim and carry you ... In electric vehicles, everyone depends on the creation of some kind of “super-duper” batteries, as sources nutrition. And I recall the experiments with electricity of a certain Nikola Tesla, who achieved some success not only in transmitting direct current and receiving electricity from the ether, but also wondered how to create free energy that any inhabitant of the Earth could receive using a small device in any corner Globe (without wires).
        Probably it is precisely the principle of gratuitousness that stops all power, which aims to rule people dependent on something.
        Therefore, reading the answers to the alleged "dead end" development paths, I am becoming more and more convinced that humanity is not yet capable of creating something from the realm of fantasy for free widespread use. If you want, just look. I do not pretend to any discoveries at all, because everything is open to us:
        1. Bersaglieri
          Bersaglieri 15 July 2020 18: 23 New
          +4
          Enough to post nonsense :( Nikola- is transformed in a coffin when "conspiracy theorists" broadcast similar
        2. A1845
          A1845 16 July 2020 10: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: ROSS 42
          creating free energy that any inhabitant of the Earth could receive with the help of a small device in any corner of the globe (without wires).

          and a beer in addition
          Quote: ROSS 42
          the principle of gratuitousness stops all power, which is intended to rule people dependent on something

          especially in terms of beer
        3. DED_peer_DED
          DED_peer_DED 16 July 2020 22: 53 New
          0
          [
          Probably it is precisely the principle of gratuitousness that stops all power, which aims to rule people dependent on something.

          Exactly. Grandmas decide - that's all.
          Imagine what will happen to this world if everyone can refuel from the tap in his house, or even in any swamp or rivulet? How to live power in such a world?
      5. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 16 July 2020 22: 41 New
        -1
        Quote: Insurgent
        Here is the one who creates a cheap, light, capacious, durable and reliable power source, he will be the "King of the Hill", he will grab luck by the tail

        Right. Oil kings will not let you do anything. Back in the 80s, our compatriot made an engine for his Moskvich on ordinary water (well, maybe prepared). It was all worth a penny. The state sent it. The result was that he had done such engines to all relatives. I don’t remember anymore ...
        But the point is that everything has been invented for a long time and everything lies beneath the cloth. No one will allow technology to step through generations. Everything should have a smooth and controlled development, first they should make a profit for the conditionally 2nd generation, then for the 3rd, etc. .... There was a processor with one core, then 2 cores, then ..... and so on, HD, FULL HD, 4K, 8K .... Nobody will let you enter the market with a revolutionary solution, a product. They make, absorb, dissolve and assimilate.
        Such is the nature of capitalism and others like them.
        World conspiracy.
    2. yfast
      yfast 15 July 2020 08: 30 New
      -8
      First, I would like to see the engine itself in a practical plane. And then they’ll master the money for the factories under this business.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 15 July 2020 08: 36 New
        +7
        Quote: yfast
        First, I would like to see the engine itself in a practical plane.

        But the article with "double bottom"(in a good way) yes
        this system is planned to be used as part of an experimental aviation hybrid power plantdeveloped by the Central Institute of Aviation Motors named after Baranov. Installation tests are scheduled for this and next year.

        That by itself speaks of intentions if you do not make a breakthrough in the aircraft (and possibly in other industries) engine building, but at least a serious application for innovation has been submitted ...
        1. orionvitt
          orionvitt 15 July 2020 09: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Insurgent
          at least a serious application for innovation has been submitted ...


          Yes, but I would like to know more. The power was written, but they did not deign to voice the efficiency (in comparison with conventional electric motors, which they already have high). As far as I understand, it was precisely because of the efficiency that this "boron cheese" with superconductivity was started.
          1. ism_ek
            ism_ek 15 July 2020 11: 21 New
            +1
            Quote: orionvitt
            They wrote the power, but they did not deign to voice the efficiency (compared with conventional electric motors, which they already have).

            It's not about efficiency, but about weight. The commercially available 4 kW high-temperature superconducting motor drive 4 kg, and the usual analogue 32 kg It is unclear how much the refrigeration unit will weigh, but the plane flies high, so low temperatures do not need to be cooled very much.
            1. orionvitt
              orionvitt 15 July 2020 16: 36 New
              -1
              Quote: ism_ek
              It’s not clear how much the refrigeration unit will weigh,

              Well, firstly, not refrigeration, but cryogenic (these are different things), the temperature there is a minimum of boiling nitrogen. And secondly, who told you that the plane will fly only, as you put it, high.
              1. ism_ek
                ism_ek 15 July 2020 18: 28 New
                -1
                Quote: orionvitt
                not refrigeration, but cryogenic (these are different things), the temperature there is a minimum of boiling nitrogen.
                One difference. More powerful compressor.
                1. orionvitt
                  orionvitt 16 July 2020 06: 24 New
                  +1
                  Quote: ism_ek
                  One difference. More powerful compressor.

                  My friend, do not disgrace yourself. Have you ever seen a gas liquefaction plant, even a small one? This is not some kind of refrigerator with a "powerful" compressor. It is a rather large and complex engineering structure with a delicate technological process. Not to mention the fact that the process of gas liquefaction is very energy-intensive. True, there are mobile ones, but the performance there is scanty and, in any case, the dimensions of a car trailer .. Divorced a pancake of sofa "experts".
        2. yfast
          yfast 15 July 2020 09: 41 New
          -13
          This is a pure knock-out of financing, so that for a few years to do nothing real. And let's put this engine right on intergalactic ships, it does not require cooling there. We will put cheers-patriots into the ships and send jellyfish to the Andromeda nebula to spur propaganda.
          1. Thunderbringer
            Thunderbringer 15 July 2020 10: 36 New
            +4
            So in Ukraine you have it.
            1. yfast
              yfast 15 July 2020 13: 02 New
              +1
              No need to send me to Ukraine, stomp there yourself, there patriots are even worse than ours.
          2. Odessa Greek
            Odessa Greek 15 July 2020 10: 45 New
            +5
            Well, of course, and you are from the sect "everyone is in rush-ke he-ro-vo and not a single factory has been built in 20 years" (unless of course you are from the elven country of laughing ) Tell us how to run a project in a series without developing a prototype? Or, perhaps, I was a little mistaken, because, according to the gurus, they will bulk up, in Mordor, orcs can only steal and destroy! Then YOUR koment. is clear.
            1. yfast
              yfast 15 July 2020 13: 00 New
              -3
              Do we have factories developed by our engineers, with our machines, with our labor organization and competitive?
    3. Senka naughty
      Senka naughty 15 July 2020 08: 37 New
      +3
      They will appear if this "know-how" justifies itself. Full-size electric helicopters - while it sounds too optimistic, the most successful project provides a power reserve of 10-20 minutes. In civilian life, electric motors are the future; in the military, a real breakthrough is needed. For the same exoskeletons, a good help.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 15 July 2020 11: 02 New
        +1
        A breakthrough cannot be based on all known principles and techniques. Therefore, breakthrough ideas have been looking for their place for a very long time.
    4. Prisoner
      Prisoner 15 July 2020 10: 01 New
      +1
      Maybe we'll see ... in the USA or in China. Opened, invented, surprised the world. The world wondered a bit and began to make money on it. And this is a tradition, ulcerate it on the ceiling!
    5. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 15 July 2020 10: 33 New
      -5
      Quote: parusnik
      Of course, I would like to see factories producing these engines ...

      I would like, but under Putinism there will be nothing .. Nothing ...
      1. Odessa Greek
        Odessa Greek 15 July 2020 10: 48 New
        -2
        Well, yes, yes - you’ll put Leshka at the head for half a year (as in / in Ukraine), he will quickly teach you to love your homeland (master's) and show a master class on how to finish everything left. GO!
    6. Svarog
      Svarog 15 July 2020 10: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      Of course, I would like to see factories producing these engines ...

      The use of such products is very great and if so, then there is a chance to become the world's leading manufacturers of electric motors. And behind them, in my opinion, is the future.
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty 15 July 2020 08: 25 New
    -6
    If only they wouldn’t sell documents to foreign traders, or a ready installation sample. ..
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 15 July 2020 11: 24 New
      -6
      Nothing to worry about! Because there is no need to be afraid to lose.
  3. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 15 July 2020 08: 41 New
    +5
    It’s a very promising and necessary direction ... and it’s very correct that they start with engines for airplanes and helicopters ... the most difficult ... then it’s easier to move to ground technology ... work must be carried out in parallel with creating an effective high-capacity battery and charge cycles / rank ... good luck with the project
    In my opinion, it will not replace the internal combustion engine (well, there are places "where Makar did not drive calves" without a reliable power supply ... it is easier to get fuel and something else) but this solution has a good niche where the infrastructure is developed ...
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt 15 July 2020 09: 20 New
      +9
      Quote: silberwolf88
      and it’s very correct that they start with engines for airplanes and helicopters ... the most difficult ... then it’s easier to switch to ground equipment ...

      Not right. You probably are not familiar with the principles of design. In order to achieve real results, they usually start with the simplest, smoothly moving to the complex. If you start right away with the complex, then you will become bogged down in a heap of constantly arising insoluble problems that will require an immediate solution. For instance. Even the children at school, begin to learn from the basics, and not integral to them from the first grade integrals.
      1. silberwolf88
        silberwolf88 15 July 2020 09: 52 New
        0
        you somehow went the wrong way ... in aviation you started with a simple transition to a difficult one ... BUT the task of aviation in itself is more complicated than land transport ... it was the message of the comment ... and of course aviation was not taken from scratch ...
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 15 July 2020 11: 05 New
          -6
          Therefore, this basis of aviation also needs to be changed. However, few people understand that the fundamentals of wing theory and the analysis of processes on it need to be changed.
          1. dali
            dali 16 July 2020 10: 44 New
            0
            Quote: gridasov
            Therefore, this basis of aviation also needs to be changed. However, few people understand that the fundamentals of wing theory and the analysis of processes on it need to be changed.

            A wing, even if it is super-duper designed, will remain a wing ... do you not know, judging by your comments, that you need a breakthrough in physics, in engines based on new physical principles, when the wing is not needed, say, for example, gravitational engine ...

            Even the petrel is still not a breakthrough ...

            In the meantime, only in the cartoon, the smeshariki have created a balloon ... laughing
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 16 July 2020 12: 04 New
              0
              Lack of understanding of how highly dynamic flows of the medium ionize the surface of the wing and how the magnetic force flows are distributed on it — this is a deep crisis and stagnation in science.
    2. AUL
      AUL 15 July 2020 10: 08 New
      +7
      Quote: silberwolf88
      A very promising and necessary direction ... and it’s very correct that they start with engines for airplanes and helicopters ...

      IMHO, for aviation - a dead end.
      1. Until batteries with energy efficiency (kWh / kg) comparable to kerosene-gasoline are created, there is nothing to talk about.
      2. The gas tank has a virtually unlimited number of "charge cycles". And the battery?
      3. Refueling tons of 50 kerosene is minutes. What about battery charging?
      4. Disposal of used batteries is troublesome, expensive and environmentally harmful. And it will take a lot to do. And the dismantling of old batteries and the installation of new ones is expensive and leads to a simple aircraft, which is incomparable with the maintenance time of conventional engines.
      5. And one more consideration. In flight, kerosene is burned, the weight of the aircraft decreases, which increases the efficiency of the system. And the battery does not lose a single gram. Economy...
      Perhaps when all these problems are resolved, the electrolyte will become effective. But this is not in the foreseeable future.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 July 2020 10: 23 New
        +1
        Here is a photo of an all-electric Alice airplane. He flies, but not in the series yet.
        Israeli startup.
        The assembly plant will be in the States.
        1. AUL
          AUL 15 July 2020 10: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          He flies, but not in the series yet.

          That's it.
          What, it solves the problems that I voiced?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 15 July 2020 10: 30 New
            -2
            Yes, resolved.
            It is competitive with gas in the small private passenger aircraft sector. There are thousands of them in America.
            There are pre-orders. But the "crown" confused all plans.
            1. AUL
              AUL 15 July 2020 10: 31 New
              +3
              So how about problems?
              Specifically, how are they resolved?
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 15 July 2020 10: 35 New
                -4
                They are uncritical, as in the electric car market. Any of the electric vehicles of the last 3 years passes without recharging 500-600 km. The battery lasts for 3 car lives.
                In production, electric cars are several times cheaper than gasoline ones (10 times fewer parts and assemblies).
                These are decisive factors.
                1. Sergey Averchenkov
                  Sergey Averchenkov 15 July 2020 11: 11 New
                  +2
                  Not true. I drove the Nissan Leaf - winter mileage of about 60 km. This is firstly, and secondly, electric cars are not cheaper - just look at the prices.
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 15 July 2020 11: 21 New
                    -2
                    I specifically wrote: "the last three years."
                    Nissan Leaf is an outdated development
                    It belongs to the generation "with small batteries".
                    This direction - electro - is developing rapidly. And their prices will be equal to gasoline when they capture the market completely. In the next decade, it will be possible to buy gasoline, but for extra money (as now with a manual box).
                    1. Sergey Averchenkov
                      Sergey Averchenkov 15 July 2020 11: 30 New
                      +2
                      Maybe so ... I went on a 5-year-old (judging by the current time), but he had to drive at least 250 km? Good, 200 km. Believe me, what the manufacturer claims and the reality is very different. Prices? I believe that in the future they will be equal, but here I am not a special optimist, not soon. I did not understand your expression about the manual box.
                      1. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 15 July 2020 11: 36 New
                        -11
                        "I didn't understand your expression about the manual box" ///
                        ---
                        This is probably Israeli specifics. We all buy a machine. If you want with manual - special import. It is more expensive.
                        ----
                        You see, I’m not even saying that the electric car is better in terms of performance characteristics. I say that for the automaker it is much easier on the assembly line. Parts and nodes - with a gulkin nose.
                        Look at the diagram: that’s all Tesla.
                        And compare what is happening under the hood of a gasoline car. Day and night.
                      2. Sergey Averchenkov
                        Sergey Averchenkov 15 July 2020 11: 47 New
                        +2
                        Now I understand at the expense of the manual box, I also have a manual one (by the way, it is cheaper with us) - why do I need an UAZ on the machine? :)
                        Perhaps you are right - it’s easier to assemble, but the cost of the battery just kills me.
                        At the expense of performance characteristics ... The electric car is even better in some ways.
                      3. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 15 July 2020 12: 48 New
                        0
                        The bodice does not have a climate control battery, which is why it loses a lot of energy in the cold. Also, its battery is very small due to which the stove devours a very large percentage.
                        In modern electric cars, these problems are not critical.
                      4. Sergey Averchenkov
                        Sergey Averchenkov 15 July 2020 13: 02 New
                        0
                        Sorry ... I'm not interested in technical details, I'm not an expert in them. I’m just saying what I saw, and what I went on. And I saw and rode a complete poop. :)
                        Yes, there are charging stations in Krasnoyarsk on every corner. :)
                        I don’t advise anyone to take an electric car yet.
                      5. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 15 July 2020 15: 27 New
                        +1
                        Well, the first-generation bodice and a complete turd, I do not argue here. Tesla just turned everything around, which is why such a stir.
            2. cat Rusich
              cat Rusich 16 July 2020 00: 37 New
              +1
              Alexey, "... And their prices will be equal to gasoline ones when they finally take over the market. ..." - then the price of electricity will increase significantly and the amount of generation of the required minimum of electricity will increase significantly. The bourgeoisie will get richer ...
        2. dali
          dali 16 July 2020 10: 57 New
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh

          They are uncritical, as in the electric car market.

          Is there a list of these non-critical issues?
          Well, it would be nice to look at the technical specifications ... otherwise your words look like praises laughing
        3. DED_peer_DED
          DED_peer_DED 16 July 2020 23: 01 New
          0
          They are uncritical, as in the electric car market.

          Battery weight, safety, energy intensity, afterburner, duplication ... Aviation.
  • gridasov
    gridasov 15 July 2020 11: 08 New
    +1
    I wonder if people with great opportunities would fly on it with their children?
  • ism_ek
    ism_ek 15 July 2020 11: 24 New
    0
    Quote: AUL
    2. The gas tank has a virtually unlimited number of "charge cycles". And the battery?

    What is the resource of an aviation turbine?
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 15 July 2020 08: 46 New
    +2
    It is not very clear what the special gain is. Permanent magnet brushless motors have high efficiency. And an accident on the refrigerant circuit (the temperature of liquid nitrogen should be there) will end badly for both the engine and the aircraft. In a very short time ...
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 15 July 2020 09: 03 New
      +1
      Permanent magnet and constant parameters produces. But the coil-free induction coil with the absence of parasitic self-inductive processes, which corresponds not only to superconductivity, but to an increase in conductivity due to spin effects in various turns, is a more real and more effective way. In addition, all key interactions with the complex of the external environment in the form of gravitational forces and forces caused by flows of the external environment, primarily interact in the aircraft through the propulsion. Therefore, only a change of propulsion gives a breakthrough in aviation.
      1. astepanov
        astepanov 15 July 2020 11: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: gridasov
        key interactions with the environment complex in the form of gravitational forces and forces caused by environmental flows

        In his repertoire ... It remains to add about the world broadcast and torsion fields - and the picture will be complete.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 15 July 2020 11: 12 New
          -2
          Remember, I have long understood the meaninglessness of the explanations. I'm just looking for people with intuition. Because ...... And just don’t think that ellipsis means rudeness. For me, it’s obvious that so far only Musk has expressed himself in words that only human intelligence developed to a new level can create AI. And who reads me can remember when this meaning was uttered by me
          1. dali
            dali 16 July 2020 10: 30 New
            0
            Quote: gridasov
            For me, it’s obvious that so far only Musk has put it in words that only natural intelligence of a person developed to a new level can create AI. And who reads me can remember when this meaning was uttered by me

            Well, not only you are with a mask ... I also wrote about this in the comments on VO that, for example, a monkey can build a modern house (not even very modern, but a village hut), of course, but can a modern person create AI of a human level? in order to build human level AI, a person himself needs to rise to a higher level !!!
    2. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 15 July 2020 09: 11 New
      +1
      Did illiterate minusculeers come running? Well ... the efficiency of a brushless motor is about 75%. The motor on superconducting windings is also in the region of 90. But there is also a cryostat, which is also not without energy consumption. Perhaps even the weight of the engine may be less, but then again a cryostat (with a fairly powerful refrigerator should be) ...
      1. dauria
        dauria 15 July 2020 09: 49 New
        0
        The efficiency of a brushless motor is about 75%.

        It's not about efficiency - in general, a hybrid plant will have it even less than that of a diesel engine, or a turbine, or whatever it will spin the "dynamo" (it's ridiculous to count on batteries when it comes to at least 15 horses).
        But in the weight of the diesel engine transmission - the mover can be won. And play already on the efficiency of the propulsion. Mining trucks, ships, diesel-electric ships, locomotives - this is a reality even without superconductivity. And the properties of such a transmission are reverse, change of revolutions, the ability to scatter engines in all corners.
      2. Svetlana
        Svetlana 15 July 2020 10: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        It is not very clear what the special gain is. The efficiency of a brushless motor is about 75%. Superconducting winding motors are also around 90

        In aircraft and rocket science, as well as in the electric power industry, they fight for every gram of fuel economy by increasing the efficiency of the propulsion system. In order to push fuel and oxidizer in turbopump units (TNA) of rocket engines (RD) with electric motors, megawatt powers are needed instead of gas turbines in superheavy rockets. And the resource of cryogenic refrigerant on board aircraft is limited. - it is also required for cooling heat-stressed elements of hypersonic jet engines
        (Scramjet), subject to heat in a hypersonic free flow of air. Therefore, if it is possible to remove the Joule heating of the windings of TNA electric motors using superconductors (MgB2), then it should be used.
        1. dauria
          dauria 15 July 2020 12: 29 New
          +1
          In order to push fuel and oxidizer in turbopump units (TNA) of rocket engines (RD) with electric motors instead of gas turbines in superheavy rockets, megawatt powers are needed


          Where are you going to get these megawatts? Have you ever seen an electric engine of at least 500 horses? Everything has its place in technology, and even more so in aviation. Is it just that the old launch system with STG and seven cans of batteries for two cans and an AI-8 auxiliary turbine was replaced on the Mi-9t helicopters in order to spin up the main engines with compressed air, and not electricity. TNA uses the energy of a steam-gas mixture. Where the required fur is. power exceeds 10 horses, weight is important and there is no Dneproges on board, no one will install an electric engine. And if there is nowhere to go, like on a submarine, then with "joules" and weight there they fight differently - they increase the voltage right up to 600 volts. On subway cars - up to 800. In aviation, the frequency was also increased to 400. There is less iron in the magnetic circuit due to this.
          1. Svetlana
            Svetlana 15 July 2020 12: 52 New
            0
            Quote: dauria
            Where are you going to get these megawatts?
            Megawatts can be taken from the terminals of the magnetohydrodynamic generator (MGDG). In the MGDG of the Hall type, the voltage at the terminals of the generator is usually much higher than the voltage at the terminals of the MGDG of the Faraday type and can reach more than 800V.
            Superconducting motors have a higher power / weight ratio than conventional motors. In rocket engines, the most emergency part is the TNA. Replacing a liquid-hydrogen gas turbine taxiway with a superconducting electric motor (located in the liquid H2 tank for cooling MgB2 superconducting windings) in the fuel oil heater will reduce the accident accident rate and increase flight safety.
            1. dauria
              dauria 15 July 2020 13: 03 New
              +1
              Replacing a liquid-hydrogen gas turbine RD in a fuel ТНА with a superconducting electric motor (located in a liquid H2 tank for cooling superconducting windings from MgB2)


              Well, except in such exotic ... And MHD from the jet stream of the main engines .. wink "What is this? KC ... so this should be checked again ..."
              Exactly Svetlana? For a hundred years I have not seen women who are suitable for talking about pieces of iron.
              Only aviation is not a rocket. People always forget that their "Zhigulyonok" runs not only on gasoline. It is also a virtual oxygen tank. 120 kilograms per 40 liters of gasoline. And they take it out of the air for free, and do not carry it with them like in batteries or on a rocket. Therefore, there will be no batteries or electric motors in real aviation.
              And then, as it were, it would be fun - instead of the turbine turbojet engine, a current collector and an MHD magnet. And the blades do not burn. Electricity on the electric motor rotate the air compressor. Lepota. laughing
              1. Svetlana
                Svetlana 15 July 2020 13: 36 New
                +1
                Quote: dauria
                It is also a virtual tank with oxygen. 120 kilograms per 40 liters of gasoline. And they take it from the air for free
                You are right - in scramjet oxygen is taken from the air for free. But unlike conventional turbojet engines, there is no need to twist the air compressor in the scramjet; the air is compressed in the shock wave itself when the hypersonic flow is braked in the scramjet air intake.
          2. Svetlana
            Svetlana 16 July 2020 08: 44 New
            +1
            Quote: dauria
            There is less iron in the magnetic circuit

            Superconducting electric motors can do without iron magnetic cores, since magnetic fields are able to create magnetic fields in the gap between the rotor and stator 10..15 Tesla, which is larger than the saturation fields of iron magnetic cores, in magnetic fields of such strength, iron magnetic cores are not only useless, but also harmful because they are heated by currents Foucault.
          3. Svetlana
            Svetlana 16 July 2020 09: 04 New
            0
            Quote: dauria
            had to see an electric engine at least 500 horses?

            I had to see an electric motor of 4 MW at 6 kW with an adjustable speed
    3. orionvitt
      orionvitt 15 July 2020 09: 23 New
      +2
      (there the temperature of liquid nitrogen should be)
      Not to mention the fact that the cryogenic installation on the aircraft itself will not contribute to its relief. And in aviation it is customary to fight for every kilogram of weight. But as a prospective study, it is very interesting.
      1. Thunderbringer
        Thunderbringer 15 July 2020 10: 38 New
        0
        Quote: orionvitt
        Not to mention the fact that the cryogenic installation itself on an aircraft

        Have you read the article?
        based on a single high temperature superconducting (HTSC) platform
        1. orionvitt
          orionvitt 15 July 2020 16: 40 New
          0
          Quote: Thunderbringer
          based on a single high-temperature superconducting (HTSC)

          How much is this? Educate the public, how many degrees is below (or, according to you, above) zero? I have read the article, but unlike you, I am still perfectly aware of what modern "high-temperature superconductors" are.
    4. Piramidon
      Piramidon 15 July 2020 09: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      there the temperature of liquid nitrogen should be

      From this temperature have long risen. They are called high temperature superconductors whose critical temperature in experiments reached 203 K (-70 ° C)
    5. ism_ek
      ism_ek 15 July 2020 12: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      It is not very clear what the special gain is.

      Win in size and weight. A HTSC engine, similar in power and resource to an automobile, has the dimensions of an automobile generator. Here is a photo of a 10 kW HTSC engine
  • zwlad
    zwlad 15 July 2020 08: 47 New
    +5
    Why put such a power plant on airplanes?
    She has a place on the ships, although there is at least volume and carrying capacity for all cryotechnics there.
    1. Kamchatsky
      Kamchatsky 15 July 2020 09: 03 New
      0
      For all cryotechnics ...
      But what about high-temperature superconductivity? request
      1. zwlad
        zwlad 15 July 2020 09: 07 New
        +2
        "... by HTSC means superconductors with a critical temperature above the boiling point of nitrogen (77 K or −196 ° C)." (from)
        So it’s still necessary to produce and store liquid nitrogen somewhere.
    2. Igorpl
      Igorpl 15 July 2020 11: 22 New
      0
      They see the application on ships. Power issue
      1. zwlad
        zwlad 15 July 2020 14: 11 New
        0
        As explained, this system is planned to be used as part of an experimental aviation hybrid power plant developed by the Baranov Central Institute of Aviation Motors.

        Well, the note says - aviation.
        1. Igorpl
          Igorpl 15 July 2020 14: 36 New
          0
          In this yes, the power is small. Before that I read that they see the prospect on ships.
  • Practik2012
    Practik2012 15 July 2020 08: 48 New
    +1
    Interestingly, in this case, high-temperature superconductivity at what temperature is reached? Liquid nitrogen 77K?
    1. Andrey.AN
      Andrey.AN 15 July 2020 09: 53 New
      +1
      Superconductivity is achieved in different ways, in essence it is stopping the interaction with external fields, any electric capacitor is a superconductor, usually bipolar, monopolar superconductors require low temperatures.
      1. Practik2012
        Practik2012 15 July 2020 11: 31 New
        0
        Well, about superconductivity and its occurrence, I remember from the lecture course of cryogenic and microelectronics, the displacement of the magnetic field beyond the limits of the superconductor (magnetic levitation is based on this), Josephson contacts, etc. There are several theories of its occurrence. The site n + 1 has many articles on the detection of superconductivity above the boiling point of nitrogen (Physicists have confirmed the superconductivity of lanthanum hydride at a temperature of −23 degrees Celsius (https://nplus1.ru/news/2019/05/22/LaH-confirmed)) . True, there is a pressure of 1,7 million atmospheres. It’s interesting just what materials and temperatures are working with. And as for the capacitors, there is also the resistance of the space charge and this is no longer superconductivity. I did not understand a bit about monopolar superconductors: does the current flow from plus to minus?
        1. Andrey.AN
          Andrey.AN 15 July 2020 12: 33 New
          0
          I didn’t exactly put it, monopoly rather, with bipole everything is clear - one element retains the potential of another element with its potential, a standard capacitor, monopolistic similar resistance only at low temperatures.
  • Avior
    Avior 15 July 2020 08: 49 New
    0
    A conventional permanent magnet synchronous electric motor, which is gaining popularity, now has an efficiency of up to 92, or even 94 percent.
    That is the maximum that you can win -6-8 percent.
    And superconductors are not cheap, probably ...
    1. zwlad
      zwlad 15 July 2020 15: 05 New
      0
      They are not only fighting for efficiency, but for the ratio of power to mass of conductors. Yes, and for losses in the supply wiring, I think, too.
      1. Avior
        Avior 15 July 2020 15: 15 New
        -3
        To lay silver - it will be cheaper than to cool with nitrogen
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 15 July 2020 09: 11 New
    -1
    Eh .... So already a psalm about "An electric motor based on superconductivity has been created in Russia" both a month ago and from 3 months ...
    They did it, they said, during trials, they will put it on airplanes.

    Are these different projects, or are they reporting the same thing?
  • Galleon
    Galleon 15 July 2020 09: 32 New
    +3
    I read the comments and finally understood nothing. It is not clear from the message the device of this engine, okay. The commentator (senka naughty) adds that the battery will last for 10-20 minutes, but these engines have a future, and a breakthrough is needed in the military commissar. request They say that the efficiency of modern electric motors is brought up to 92-94%, but apparently this reservation applies to small-sized engines, and the power of prototypes 50 and 500 kW is indicated in the article - this is essential.
    Are these needed in the navy? Decide to the customer. If it comes further than an experimental sample with the alteration of an existing small ship for such a power plant - it will be .. surprise. Recall Jacobi with his experiment. Are they needed in aviation? They will show the mass-size and power characteristics. There are doubts about the trailer for this engine, which has liquid nitrogen and a battery.
    In the meantime, I would like to wish the developers not to be let down by the economic and bureaucratic component, as is often the case with inventors.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 15 July 2020 09: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: Galleon
      In the meantime, I would like to wish the developers not to be let down by the economic and bureaucratic component, as is often the case with inventors

      They are such inventors, passionate people!
      Their dreams, plans, are broken, often, not only about bureaucratic .... caution, but also about the elementary laws of the economy.
      When I studied the subject "Machine parts", I also carried out calculations of the "ideal electric motor" !!! And that was ten years ago .... and all the same electric machines of classical design are also used everywhere.
      Well, if they get a working, in every way design !!! We'll see.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 15 July 2020 10: 47 New
        0
        Not work out! They create machines and structures, but do not simulate force magnetic interactions. Therefore, everything is done blindly
    2. Avior
      Avior 15 July 2020 15: 17 New
      -2
      . this reservation applies to small engines, and the article indicates the power of prototypes 50 and 500 kW

      Conversely, lower efficiencies are lower
  • Laksamana besar
    Laksamana besar 15 July 2020 09: 40 New
    0
    ... during testing, the engine was powered only by a specially designed high-power battery. Testing was carried out in conditions of simulating take-off and landing, battery charge and discharge in flight, as well as emergency conditions.

    Implemented technologies open up the possibility of creating “fully electric” aircraft, such as vertical take-off and landing air taxi and electric marine vessels.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 15 July 2020 09: 46 New
    0
    Superconductivity, superconductivity .... the topic is not the first freshness, but now what is important, and even more important ???
    Commercial success, how warm!
    Therefore, we will see how and what they will succeed!
    There is simply nothing to discuss, because what exactly and how they did it is not clear, so, general definitions, plans.
  • slipped
    slipped 15 July 2020 09: 55 New
    +6
    Test photo












    1. A1845
      A1845 15 July 2020 11: 59 New
      +2
      thanks for the photo, the last one is especially good, gives an idea of ​​the issue price
  • avdkrd
    avdkrd 15 July 2020 10: 32 New
    0
    Quote: parusnik
    Of course, I would like to see factories producing these engines ...

    I think we'll see soon, around the world ....
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 15 July 2020 12: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: avdkrd
      Quote: parusnik
      Of course, I would like to see factories producing these engines ...

      I think we'll see soon, around the world ....

      That's when the critical temperature of superconductors is brought to room temperature, then we can talk about their widespread use.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 15 July 2020 11: 38 New
    +2
    All Tesla mechanics:
    + brakes and shock absorbers. Primitive, like a children's toy.
  • Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 15 July 2020 11: 42 New
    0
    Quadrocopters on electric motors are already flying, which means there is a prospect of further progress along the path of aviation electrification. And systems based on a single high-temperature superconducting (HTSC) platform certainly, although not without problems and difficulties, will surely find their place in military and civil aviation over time.
  • 0389db
    0389db 15 July 2020 12: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Any of the electric vehicles of the last 3 years passes without recharging 500-600 km.

    In what conditions and in what modes? At night with the lights on, at least -40 degrees overboard, with the stove in the cabin, 600 km? I doubt it very much. And how much does it charge after that? Refueling any car is a matter of 5 minutes, and this miracle takes about 10 hours to charge at least.
    Quote: voyaka uh
    The battery lasts for 3 car lives.

    And how long do you usually consider the life of a car?
    For example, I have a Toyota, she is 30 years old, she is alive and healthy, she will definitely live another ten years. According to your statement, will the Tesla battery last 120 years? I have not met such miracles so far.
    Quote: voyaka uh

    In production, electric cars are several times cheaper than gasoline ones (10 times fewer parts and assemblies).

    And why, ceteris paribus, electric cars are 5 times more expensive, because in production many times cheaper?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 15 July 2020 12: 51 New
      -1
      1) Cars are usually changed about once every 10 years. This is a conditional life of the car.
      2) Electric car manufacturers are still raising prices in order to squeeze excess profits out of fashion for these cars.
      When large manufacturers (including Toyota, by the way) switch to electric, prices will remain at the level of gasoline, but the cost to the manufacturer will be sharply lower. Check out my post on Tesla's mechanical diagram. There will be no concept: hood, under the hood. There will be a salon with two luggage carriers and a chassis. All.
      3) For a cold climate there will probably be hybrids. Small ICE for heating electrical systems.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 15 July 2020 14: 24 New
        0
        How long does an electric car battery live, for example?
        What modes of battery charging for them are RECOMMENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER, so that they can provide an optimal service life. How does accelerated charge affect battery life?
        And much, much, what else is written in the instruction manual.
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 15 July 2020 14: 16 New
      0
      Quote: 0389db
      According to your statement, will the Tesla battery last 120 years? I have not met such miracles so far

      All ACCELERATED CHARGED batteries live .... yes consider absolutely DO NOT LIVE! 200 - 300 cycles, it is ALREADY GOOD! A year, two ..... three is MAXIMUM!
      So much of this ha / M / has already accumulated, we can’t hand it in anywhere, but it’s just not right to throw it away!
      The question is simple, but how many, according to some, this pepelats lives ???
      Shaw does advertising with the brains of those who do not hold their KNOWLEDGE .... ???
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 July 2020 14: 31 New
        -1
        You can resent as much as you like. And, perhaps, some of your indignations are fair.
        But the biggest car manufacturers are already making a choice: electric cars. These are: Toyota, Ford, Volkswagen. So everyone will have to live with this. Both buyers and garage workers.
        1. Falcon5555
          Falcon5555 15 July 2020 18: 34 New
          0
          The buyer is always right, not the manufacturer. I doubt that the day of charging and the cold in the cabin will ever appeal to the mass buyer more than 3 minutes of refueling plus a stove on free heat from the engine. I think that now those who need toys for leisure rather than go buy electro. And it will always be so.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 15 July 2020 23: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Falcon5555
            I doubt that charging day and cold in the cabin

            About charging day, not quite right. Modern batteries have several charge modes, including and SPEEDED, from 90min. up to 80% charge level, up to 150min. charge up to 90% of the nominal capacity! Just such a regime dramatically reduces their service life. A year, two, and then ku, ku, a sharp loss of capacity.
            A long charge mode extends the life of two, three, from 6 to 10 years. But this is only the most, most, high-quality and expensive.
            On servers, ICEs or hybrid systems will still dominate for a long time.
            1. Falcon5555
              Falcon5555 16 July 2020 01: 28 New
              0
              In the "north", probably? Yes, and in the cities will be. I have a lot of refueling minutes, what 90 minutes? If someone in sunny California has a villa with a powerful electricity grid, and he only travels within the district, and not to Las Vegas, then that's okay, but why the hell does he need it? Sitting on batteries that can catch fire? Harmful lithium production! And ICEs are assembled by robots (in developed countries) - it's not difficult for them. I think electric vehicles will not be the same universal transport as motorcycles or bicycles are now. E-bicycles are promising, but they are more of an alternative to simple bicycles and short-distance bus rides than to cars.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 16 July 2020 10: 02 New
                0
                In cities, especially a little blown by the winds, the problem of gas pollution is SERIOUS!
                You must always have an alternative.
                Bicycle, electric transport and hybrid devices, everything is in the subject, if you create a normal infrastructure for the operation of electric vehicles.
                For example, I forgot to load the scooter in the evening, did not reach the office !!! I stopped at the tiles for a cup of "morning coffee with croissants", connected the scooter to the charging (accelerated of course). While I was enjoying myself, the battery was recharged by 10 - 20%, it would be enough to get to the office. And there I connected again to charging, until the end of the working day, it will be charged 100%.
                In general, the problem will be solved, and since the charging station is much simpler and cheaper than the gas station, things will go.
                Outside the city, in the far, hybrids will be distributed ....
                The only obstacle so far is the batteries themselves !!! Their production is dirty, and efficiency, reliability and price parameters, so far, are the main brake on the process.
                1. Falcon5555
                  Falcon5555 16 July 2020 15: 31 New
                  0
                  In cities, especially a little blown by the winds, the problem of gas pollution is SERIOUS!
                  And where is this serious? In Krasnoyarsk? But there it is not from cars! Those who have caught the 80s, probably many are even bursting with nostalgia, if some Java or Che-Zet from the garage of a villager drives past them in the countryside, and you smell of smoke and gasoline from an engine that still does not know "Euro ". Classic Zhiguli in Soviet times also smelled very pleasantly. Now there is nothing like that. And the Zhiguli, who still have them, have also already learned how to regulate and they do not smell (at least where they are undergoing maintenance). Everything is sterile, and a slightly enraged Europe is introducing new norms. They can forcibly use electric cars, but they will come to their senses someday, they must. Probably then they will come to their senses when they themselves have to extract lithium on their "Cote d'Azur" and generate a lot of electricity for charging at their own nuclear and thermal stations, and buy coal, oil and gas for thermal stations - guess at once - from whom.
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 16 July 2020 16: 13 New
                    0
                    The topic of affordable personal electric transport, in relation to OUR REALITIES, is not yet considered AT ALL!
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 15 July 2020 23: 40 New
          0
          No one can argue with the fact that the transport of the future, in cities, in areas with suitable infrastructure, will not be on the ICE ... we simply point out the absurdity and deceit that is present in advertising.
          Write OBJECTIVELY as it really is and there will NOT be any malicious remarks from people who know.
        3. ghby
          ghby 16 July 2020 10: 19 New
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          You can resent as much as you like. And, perhaps, some of your indignations are fair.
          But the biggest car manufacturers are already making a choice: electric cars. These are: Toyota, Ford, Volkswagen. So everyone will have to live with this. Both buyers and garage workers.

          So far, these are just toys. No more. I directly imagine how in winter at minus 30 I will go by electric car to a neighboring city and every 150 km I will charge the battery for half a day ...
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 16 July 2020 10: 30 New
            -1
            The change in the car market will happen dramatically. Let's say you love Toyota. Reliable car.
            Today you can no longer buy the new Toyota non-hybrid. There is none of them.
            The next stage planned for them is the transition to a hydrogen-electric engine. It is more complicated than that of Tesla, but they decided so. At some point in the Toyota Motor Show you will find half brands of hybrids and half electro. And after a few years - only electro.
            And for the "market whales" (Toyota, Volkswagen, Ford) EVERYONE makes a turn.
            In Germany - in the homeland of diesel engines - the production of diesel engines is stopped. The world is changing.
            1. ghby
              ghby 16 July 2020 10: 56 New
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              The change in the car market will happen dramatically.

              The change will only happen when I can refuel an electric car in a couple of minutes and drive 500 km in winter at minus 20 at least. Currently, there are no prerequisites for this. Everything else for short distances, and a mild climate - pampering in general.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 16 July 2020 11: 06 New
                -1
                What you have listed will undoubtedly happen. Rather, it is already happening. Frosts are in winter, not only in Russia. In Canada it’s cold and huge distances, even in Chicago (and south) it fell to minus 40. And this is a huge market for wealthy people. Which electric cars will also conquer. This is planned. That electric car, which is sold in Canada, is suitable for Russia.
                1. ghby
                  ghby 16 July 2020 11: 12 New
                  0
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  What you have listed will undoubtedly happen. Rather, it is already happening. That electric car, which is sold in Canada, is suitable for Russia.

                  Which electric car? Someone made a battery revolution, and we don’t know?
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 15 July 2020 12: 57 New
    +1
    There are too many words "unique", "first in the world" and "exclusively". I am not sure that all this is in place - after all, the topic of highly efficient electric motors (including those based on the effects of superconductivity) has been plowed up by the Americans / Japanese for years, they, by the way, are the developers of the most effective solutions for batteries. So it’s probably not worth puffing out our cheeks like a frog again - this is the direction in which we are catching up. If done and works - that's great, but the real application of such products is far away - "low-temperature" superconductivity is still ultra-low temperatures and / or just very low temperatures and extremely specific materials / pressure conditions. All this is currently incompatible (efficiently) with equipment smaller than a ship in size, and the progress and variability of the search according to the conditions and materials of execution makes it practically impractical to serial design such products. Tomorrow they will open a new record material - and the whole structure will have to be redone a little more than completely.
    1. ksv36
      ksv36 15 July 2020 15: 00 New
      +1
      Well, why are you so? Writing has become more modest. Used only "for the first time in the world". Already progress. laughing
  • paco.soto
    paco.soto 15 July 2020 13: 08 New
    0
    electric motor based on high-temperature superconductivity technologies. ©
    Wiping sweat with his beard: I don't understand anything after reading this. Ban me! To the delight of my wife, "guns are loaded"
    With smile.
  • Serval
    Serval 15 July 2020 13: 15 New
    0
    Quote: 0389db
    And why, all things being equal, electric cars are 5 times more expensive?

    Batteries are expensive. Everything else is inexpensive.
  • ksv36
    ksv36 15 July 2020 14: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: paco.soto
    electric motor based on high-temperature superconductivity technologies. ©
    Wiping sweat with his beard: I don't understand anything after reading this. Ban me! To the delight of my wife, "guns are loaded"
    With smile.


    Eh, the village. I will explain. This is when the diesel goes into gear and heats up to white, this is where the superconducting electric motor is connected. A total of 100 knots "uphill" with a breeze. And what Russian doesn't like driving fast? (C) laughing
  • Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 15 July 2020 18: 18 New
    0
    Hmm, electric motors with JV / HTSC elements have been a fashionable topic everywhere for the last 20+ years. What is the "breakthrough" then?
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 15 July 2020 19: 06 New
    +2
    the law of conservation of energy is not possible to get around from the word at all
  • Pike
    Pike 15 July 2020 20: 27 New
    0
    Quote: Insurgent

    Engines based on superconductivity, and similar other elements of the system, this is very good, even SUPER, but still the "bottleneck" in it is accumulators.

    Here is the one who will create the power source cheap, lightweight, capacious, durable and reliable, he will be the "King of the Hill", he will grab luck by the tail yes .

    I don’t remember exactly when, in the beginning of the 2000s, the news on the first talked about a battery created on a space station capable of delivering up to 10 kilowatts per year. They said something about vacuum and polymers ... How much time passed and silence ...
  • nikolai55soot
    nikolai55soot 16 July 2020 04: 09 New
    0
    About ten years I offer the technology of aviation flight (the authorities do not notice, I will sell); on super heavy-duty high-voltage electric motors from 2 to 20000 kW. and more (hybrid air, plasma, ion and others); above the high-voltage power line (0,4-10-110-220-330-500-750-1150 kV.): the liner flies at a supersonic speed of 1200 to 3200 km / h or more from Moscow to Khabarovsk (3-4 routes on Russia) at an altitude of 100 meters and above, contact and contactless along the laser beam. The military fly (fighters, an air-carrier from the TTS link with a nuclear power plant) to 30 thousand km / h (1-2-3 space speed) and more, with the launch of rockets, with the launch of spacecraft, using combat lasers if necessary. From the left of the power transmission line (from the side), a helicopter flies from 300 to 900 km / h, the ekranolyot, hovercraft, from the right of the power transmission line (from the side) from 300 to 600 km / h a cargo robot flying from a twin 20- 40 airships with a loading capacity of up to hundreds of thousands of tons of cargo, which itself builds a mega highway through Siberian swamps or a highway or gas-oil-turbo-wire (or it is instantly dismantled) or the Hanoi-Beijing-Moscow-Paris silk route or the South banana route America-Alaska-Moscow-Cairo-South Africa and others ....
  • 0389db
    0389db 16 July 2020 07: 52 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    1) Cars are usually changed about once every 10 years. This is a conditional life of the car.

    For those people who buy new cars, I agree, but the car’s life does not end there. After the first owner, a car with a conventional ICE will be resold 10 times and people who cannot afford a new car from the passenger compartment will be quite happy to use it.
    Quote: voyaka uh
    2) Electric car manufacturers are still raising prices in order to squeeze excess profits out of fashion for these cars.

    There is no fashion, there are show-offs for a certain class of population (very small by the way), and so far most electric cars are geared specifically for such buyers.
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Check out my post on Tesla's mechanical diagram. There will be no concept: hood, under the hood. There will be a salon with two luggage carriers and a chassis. All.

    And why are you so scared of the contents under the hood? In fact, there is nothing complicated there: A regular budget ICE is not much more expensive than a similar electric motor, the rest of the piping (exhaust, cooling, starter, power steering, generator, fuel system) in mass production is not worth anything.
    All that makes up the bulk of the cost of a classic car in an electric car remains in place, the engine changes to an electric motor, taking into account electric motor control systems, their cost is comparable. The body of an electric car will cost clearly more than the classic, as it is necessary not only to ensure the safety of passengers during an accident but to protect the batteries from damage. The suspension will remain unchanged, the interior too, but the penny strapping of the internal combustion engine will be replaced by a very expensive battery.
    Quote: voyaka uh
    3) For a cold climate there will probably be hybrids. Small ICE for heating electrical systems.

    This is generally a delusional scheme, first find where to charge, and then find where to refuel. Everywhere where the temperature is below zero, this is normal, electric cars in the next 30 years will not be accurate, they will be more accurate, but only as a show-off and toys.

    And the most important moment of operation, all advertisers of electric cars specifically miss. He is not free! The fact that you don’t have to pay for gasoline, never cancels the fact that you have to pay for electricity. Electricity is certainly cheaper, but roughly estimated (at prices in its region) the savings are a maximum of 2 times. Given the capabilities of electric cars, for the average driver, this is a penny.
    In the near future, electric cars cannot fundamentally become a mass mode of transport. For real competition with classic cars, at a similar price, they should have a range of 2-3 thousand km. in any climatic conditions, or the same 500-600 km, but cost 2 times cheaper than a car with a classic ICE of the same class, as well as provide age-related loss of cost no worse than a car with an ICE.
  • -ш-
    -ш- 16 July 2020 08: 33 New
    0
    Well, if there are rockets in a nuclear engine, I’m not surprised