Military Review

"God is not in strength, but in truth!" How Alexander Yaroslavich defeated the Swedish crusaders

129
"God is not in strength, but in truth!" How Alexander Yaroslavich defeated the Swedish crusaders

N.K. Roerich. Alexander Nevsky hits Jarl Birger. 1904


780 years ago, on July 15, 1240, Alexander Yaroslavich with his retinue defeated the Swedish knights invading our lands. Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword!

Northwest frontier of Russia


On the Baltic side, various clashes and wars were commonplace. First, the Baltic states, Karelia were the outskirts of Russia. During the period of feudal fragmentation, this region was in the sphere of influence of the Lord Novgorod the Great. Novgorodians in the XI-XII centuries. actively colonized the western, northern and eastern lands. In the future Estonia, the Russians founded Kolyvan (later Revel-Tallinn). Novgorodians populated the banks of the river. Neva to the mouth. Most of the Finno-Ugric tribes of modern Finland and Karelia paid tribute to Novgorod.

In the same period, the expansion of the Swedes began. At first, the Swedes made occasional raids on Novgorod lands, attacked merchant ships. Karelians and Russes answered the same. By 1160, an internal retrenchment ended in Sweden, the feudal war for power, the struggle of Christians and pagans. After that, the Swedes began a new stage of expansion - systematic campaigns and colonization. In particular, in 1164, the Swedish army tried to take Ladoga. The Ladozhans stayed in the Kremlin and moved to the Voronoi river (flows into Lake Ladoga), where they built a fortification. However, the Novgorod army defeated the finds. The Russians also struck back. In 1187, a Novgorod, Izhora, and Karelian army took and burned the Swedish capital Sigtuna with a sudden blow. After this pogrom, the Swedes did not begin to restore the old capital and built a new one - Stockholm.

It is worth noting that Russian and Swedish (as well as German, Danish) colonizations were fundamentally different. Naturally, Russian colonization was not only peaceful. There were armed clashes and coercion. However, the Russians did not suppress local tribes, did not turn local residents into slaves, did not consider them to be "subhuman." The introduction was almost painless. The territory was huge, everyone was missing an animal and fish. The tribute was small, the Orthodox Church acted relatively sluggishly and peacefully. The Russians were notable for their tolerance; Novgorodians themselves at that time were either pagans or dualists - they worshiped both Christ and Perun. Therefore, the Novgorodians did not have castles and fortresses in the area of ​​the river. Neva, in Karelia and southern Finland. As a result, all locals became equal inhabitants of the Russian land, were not considered "second-class people."

The Swedes and Germans colonized Finland and the Baltic states according to a strict scenario. Lands were captured, devastated, and strong points were built - castles and fortresses. Knights and their retinue lived in them. The surrounding population enslaved, enslaved, forcibly Christianized. The natives who opposed slavery and the "holy faith" were physically destroyed. They killed as hard as possible so that others would not be disgraceful. In particular, they burned alive. As a result, for many centuries a slave system has developed, where there are gentlemen and "subhuman" slaves.

The threat from the West


How did the Western knights get to Pskov and Novgorod? During the time of the Russian princes Oleg Veshchy and Igor Stary, the vast territory between Novgorod and the Frankish kingdom was occupied by the Slavic-Russian (so-called Western Slavs) and Lithuanian tribes, who had just stood out from the Baltic-Slavic community and worshiped Perun, had the same spiritual and material traditions as the Russians.

This war of the West with the North has almost been forgotten. For several hundred years, a fierce and bloody struggle took place. The Roman throne sent the crusaders to the North and East. The West used the ancient divide and conquer strategy. Slavic tribes and lands were destroyed, enslaved, assimilated, Christianized and partially driven out to the east. "Slavic Atlantis" in the center of Europe was destroyed ("Slavic Atlantis" in Central Europe) Few people now know that present-day Germany, Austria, Denmark, the countries of Scandinavia, partly Northern Italy are created on Slavic bones and heritage. That the current Germans are for the most part Slavs who are assimilated, who have forgotten the language, traditions and culture.

In the occupied lands, the Western knights and clergy carried out violent Christianization, converted previously free people into serf slaves or destroyed them. In some areas, the Slavs-Russians exterminated without exception. They were hunted like wild animals. Many Slavs fled further east. In particular, many moved to the lands of Lithuania, and Lithuanian tribes received a significant Slavic impurity. The remaining Slavs were resettled from their fertile convenient lands, driven into marshes, where it was possible to live mainly only by fishing. Knights, large feudal lords, bishops and monasteries enslaved Christianized Slavs. The rebellious systematically exterminated. Developed "law-abiding." In exchange, peasants were resettled from more western territories, where the corresponding processing took place centuries earlier.

The Catholic Church and German feudal lords pursued the language and customs of the conquered Slavic tribes. Destroyed their culture and traditions. True, the Slavs showed tremendous resistance to these destructive processes. Only in the XNUMXth century during the devastating Thirty Years War did the Slavic element finally be uprooted. Only miserable remnants remained.

In the XII century, the Germans began expansion in the Baltic states. First, a trading post was established at the mouth of the Western Dvina. Then came the missionaries with the warriors. They preached among the Baltic tribes "with fire and sword." Churches were erected on steep hills and strategic heights; stone walls with towers were erected to protect them. Despite this, the Livs did not want to be baptized and pay tithing to Rome. Then the Germans organized a crusade and betrayed Livonia to the fire and sword. The Livs continued to resist. Then Bishop Albert founded Riga at the mouth of the Neva in 1200. Also on his initiative in 1202 they created the Order of the Knights of the Sword, which settled in the Wenden fortress.

Subduing Livonia, the German knights moved to Russia. Thus, a terrible threat loomed over Russian land, which was going through a period of fragmentation. The eastern core of the Rus could repeat the fate of their brothers in Central Europe. The princes of Polotsk did not realize the threat posed by the Western knights in time. The Crusaders moved east, began to take the lower lands from the Principality of Polotsk. At the same time, the Westerners acted not only with the sword, but also with the carrot. They negotiated, persuaded, for some time paid tribute to Polotsk for Livonian lands, “helped” against Lithuania, etc. In 1213, the Germans captured the city of Bear Mountain in the lands of Chud (the ancestors of the current Estonians). And the Peipsi land was included in the sphere of influence of Novgorod.

Since that time, wars of knights against Pskov and Novgorod began. In 1224, after a long siege, the crusaders stormed the strategic stronghold of the Russians in Estonia - Yuryev. The garrison led by Prince Vyacheslav Borisovich and killed all the townspeople. The Rusichs more than once cruelly defeated the enemy, but in the conditions of fragmentation of the Russian land, this struggle would sooner or later be lost. “Onslaught to the East” was systematic, conducted systematically, according to a clear strategy of enslavement. For eight centuries, the Germans, Danes, Swedes and the Roman throne made the Baltic region a battlefield. In the Russian principalities and lands, under one prince, enemies were beaten, while under the other, they listened, pursued a “flexible policy”. The Western Crusaders treated the Christian Rus in much the same way as the Gentile Baltic. For them, the Russians were heretics who needed to be christened in the correct faith or exterminated.


Neva battle. Front annalistic vault

Battle of the Neva


One of the first who realized the threat from the West was Prince Yaroslav Vsevolodovich, the son of Vsevolod the Big Nest, the father of Alexander Nevsky. His capital city was Pereyaslavl-Zalessky. In 1228, the Novgorodians called on Yaroslav to reign over. He was preparing a campaign to Riga, but quarreled with the Pskov and Novgorod residents. In 1234, Yaroslav defeated the Germans at Yuryev-Derpt and pronounced the Yuryevsky tribute from the enemy for himself and his successors. The famous tribute that Ivan the Terrible used to start a war with the goal of returning the Baltic states to Russia.

At this time, the threat from the West increased significantly. The Order of the Swordsmen in 1237 was combined with the more powerful Teutonic Order, which settled on parts of Polish lands and in Prussia. The lands of Prussians-Prussians (Slavs-Russians) were captured, most of the population was exterminated, the remaining ones turned into slaves. The Crusaders were preparing a blow to Russia. They hoped to take advantage of the favorable situation. In 1237-1240. Russia was subjected to a terrible invasion from the East. Hordes came - "Mongols" (The myth of the "Mongol-Tatar" invasion; The myth of the "Mongols from Mongolia" is the Vatican’s most grandiose provocation against Russia) Russia was devastated, its military-economic and human potential was significantly weakened. Russian principalities fell under the power of the Golden Horde.

The Roman throne decided to use the weakening of the central principalities of Russia to capture the Russian North - Pskov and Novgorod. In 1237, Rome proclaimed a second crusade in Finland. In 1238, the Danish and Teutonic knights agreed on joint actions in Estonia and against Russia. Swedish feudal lords joined the alliance. In the summer of 1240, large Swedish feudal lords Jarl Birger and Ulf Fasi gathered troops (according to various sources, from 1 to 5 thousand soldiers) and landed at the mouth of the Neva. With the army arrived bishops. The Swedes planned to subjugate the Izhora and Vodskaya lands, where the Vod and Izhora tribes, which were part of the Novgorod land, lived. Establish a fortress at the mouth of the Neva, and then strike at Novgorod. At the same time, a crusader attack from the west was being prepared, and the Swedes knew about it.

Since 1236, the young prince Alexander Yaroslavich served (was the head of the army) in Novgorod. The enemy was discovered by the Novgorod “marine guard” - Izhora, led by Elder Pelugiy (Pelgusius). Izhora discovered the appearance of the Swedes and reported to Novgorod. Obviously, then there was a system of operational communications from the mouth of the Neva to Novgorod (signal lights on the hills, possibly a horse relay). Then the brave Izhora guards watched the landed enemy. Prince Alexander did not wait for the gathering of the Novgorod rati, gathered a personal squad and moved on horseback and on boats along Volkhov. A group of Novgorod volunteers also spoke with him. In Ladoga joined the local squad. As a result, Alexander had about 300 professional fighters - combatants and about 1000 thousand warriors. Only 1300-1400 soldiers.

The Swedes did not know about the approach of the enemy. They were confident in their abilities and settled down to rest on the southern bank of the Neva, near the confluence of the Izhora River. On July 15, 1240, the Russians attacked the enemy. The attack was sudden. The Swedes controlled the waterway, but did not wait for an attack from land. The foot soldiers attacked along the coast to cut off the enemy from the ships, the cavalry hit the center of the camp to close the encirclement. Prince Alexander personally wounded Jarl Birger with a spear. Sources described the exploits of several warriors: Gavrilo Oleksich, riding a horse on an enemy ship, chopped down the Swedes. He was thrown into the water, but he survived and again entered the battle, defeated one of the enemy governors. Novgorodian Misha with his squad attacked the Swedish ships and captured three of them. The squad of Savva broke into the tent of the Swedish commander and hooked the pillar. The fall of the golden-domed tent of the Swedish leader inspired the Russian warriors. Novgorodian Sbyslav Yakunovich cut down many enemies with an ax. Ratmir, close to Alexander, fought several enemies at once and died the death of the brave.


Map of the Battle of Neva on July 15, 1240. Source - L. G. Beskrovny. Atlas of maps and diagrams on the Russian military stories.

Stunned by the sudden attack, the leader’s wound, the Swedes faltered and fled. With the onset of darkness, the Swedish squadron went to sea. By order of Alexander, two captured ships (augers) loaded the bodies of the killed Swedes, they were allowed to go along the river and “sink into the sea”. The rest of the killed, apparently simple warriors and servants from the Finnish tribes, sum and em, were buried "having swept them into the nude without a number." Officially, the Russian army lost 20 soldiers. The loss of 20 professional combatants in a surprise attack is serious. In addition, the soldiers of Izhora participated in the battle. They were pagans and burned the bodies of their fallen tribesmen. Therefore, their losses were unlikely to be noted in the sources.

The Neva battle was a good lesson for the Swedish feudal lords. At the time of a terrible threat to Russia, the people saw in the young prince their defender. "God is not in strength, but in truth!" True, with freedom-loving Novgorodians it was difficult. Soon, Novgorod quarreled with the prince, and he went to his inheritance - Pereslavl-Zalessky. But Novgorodians chose the time for a swara unsuccessfully. In the same 1240, the crusaders launched a large offensive against Russia. The swordsmen took Izborsk, defeated the Pskov army and captured Pskov. Great danger loomed over Novgorod itself.


The flight of the Swedes to the ships. Facial annalistic vault of the 16th century
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Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/ https://runivers.ru/
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  1. svp67
    svp67 15 July 2020 05: 44 New
    10
    Swordsmen ... defeated the Pskov army and captured Pskov.
    Unfortunately, but this is not true. The Pskov principality was independent and at that time wishing to defend itself from influence and unrest in Novgorod, it decided to balance it with something, as a result a peace treaty was concluded with the swordsmen and their detachment quite peacefully entered Pskov ... And this was not at all by some kind of betrayal, the weak sought protection, and Novgorod at that time was mired in turmoil and did not inspire confidence
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 15 July 2020 08: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      The Pskov principality was independent and at that time wishing to defend itself from influence and unrest in Novgorod, it decided to balance it with something, as a result a peace treaty was concluded with the swordsmen and their detachment quite peacefully entered Pskov ...

      Наверное поэтому псковское ополчение, не задолго до этого момента потеряло 800 человек (это по летописи) в попытке отбить у рыцарей Изборск... А меченосцы "вполне мирно" вошли в город после того, как разорили предместья Пскова. Кстати, посадника, который сдал город, потом повесели. Как предателя. Хотя есть версия, что ему удалось сбежать. По факту обычные политические игрища в борьбе за власть. Потому как при подходе к Пскову войск Александра Невского произошёл очередной переворот, посадника сместили и так же мирно открыли ворота для Александра. Ни в одном, ни в другом случае штурма крепости не было.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 15 July 2020 09: 02 New
        +1
        Drop the link to the facts in your story about Pskov
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 15 July 2020 11: 11 New
          +5
          Это по "Старшей Ливонской рифмованной Хронике"
          (02081.) des kuniges man (12) quâmen dar (02081) Men of the king (kuniges man, Danish vassals) (12) arrived there
          (02082.) mit einer hovelîchen schar; (02082) with a significant detachment;
          (02083.) des was bischof Herman vrô. (02083) Bishop Herman rejoiced at this.
          (02084.) mit deme here sie kârten dô (02084) With this army they (12a) moved then
          (02085.) vrôlîchen in der Rûßen lant. (13) (02085) joyfully in Russia.
          (02086.) eß gienc in dâ vil wol in hant. (14) (02086) Their affairs went very well there.
          (02087.) vor eine burg sie quâmen dô, (02087) There they went to the castle,
          (02088.) die (15) was irre kumft unvrô. (02088) in the castle did not rejoice at their arrival.
          (02089.) sturmes man mit in began, (16) (02089) They [the Russians] attacked them,
          (02090.) daß hûs gewunnen sie in an. (02090) seized their castle (burc).
          (02091.) Îsburc (17) die burc hieß. (02091) This castle was called Isburc.
          (02092.) der Rûßen man keinen ließ, (02092) Not a single Russian was given
          (02093.) man brêchte in in nôt. (02093) [leave] unscathed.
          (02094.) welcher sich zû were bôt, (02094) who defended themselves,
          (02095.) der wart gevangen oder geslagen. (02095) he was captured or killed.
          (02096.) man hôrte rûfen und clagen: (02096) Cries and lamentations were heard:
          (02097.) in deme lande ubir al (02097) in that land everywhere
          (02098.) erhûb sich ein michel schal. (02098) the great lamentation began.
          (02099.) Die von Plezcowe (18) dô (02099) Residents of Pskov (Plezcowe) then
          (02100.) wâren diser mêre unvrô. (02100) did not rejoice at this news.
          (02101.) eine stat (19) ist sô genant, (02101) This is the name of the city (die stat),
          (02102.) die liet in Rûßen lant. (02102) which is located in Russia.
          (02103.) dâ sint lûte harte sûr, (20) (02103) There people are very cool people,
          (02104.) die wâren diser nâkebûr. (02104) they were neighbors of this [captured-castle of Izborsk].
          (02105.) von den wart nicht gespart, (02105) They did not hesitate,
          (02106.) sie hûben sich ûf die vart (02106) they went camping
          (02107.) und jageten grimmelîchen dar (02107) and menacingly rode there,
          (02108.) mit mancher brunjen (21) lîchtvar; (02108) many were in shiny armor;
          (02109.) ir helme lûchten als ein glas. (22) (02109) their helmets shone like glass.
          (02110.) vil manich schutze (23) dâ mite was. (02110) There were many shooters with them (23).
          (02111.) sie quâmen ûf der brûder her; (02111) They met an army of knight brothers;
          (02112.) die satzten sich kein (24) in zû wer. (02112) they resisted them,
          (02113.) die brûdere und des kuniges man (02113) knight brothers and husbands of the king
          (02114.) die Rûßen vrîlîchen riten an. (25) (02114) boldly attacked the equestrian ranks of the Russians.
          (02115.) bischof Herman der was dar (02115) Bishop Herman was there
          (02116.) als ein helt mit sîner schar. (02116) as a hero with his unit (schar).
          (02117.) sich hûb ein ungevûger strît: (02117) A fierce battle began:
          (02118.) die dûtschen hiwen wunden wît, (26) (02118) the Germans inflicted deep wounds,
          (02119.) die Rûßen liden grôße nôt: (27) (02119) Russians suffered great damage:
          (02120.) man slûc ir achte hundert tôt, (02120) eight hundred of them were killed [people],
          (02121.) die bliben ûf deme wal. (02121) they fell on the battlefield.
          (02122.) bie Îsburc nâmen sie den val. (02122) Near Izborsk they were defeated,
          (02123.) die anderen (28) nâmen dâ die vlucht, (02123) The rest then took to flight,
          (02124.) man jagete sie âne zucht (02124) they were randomly pursued
          (02125.) vaste (29) hin zû lande (30) wert. (02125) on the heels toward their home.
          (02126.) die Rûßen manten sêre ir pfert (02126) The Russians strongly urged their horses
          (02127.) beide mit geiseln und mit sporn; (02127) with lashes and spurs;
          (02128.) sie wânten alle sîn verlorn: (02128) they thought everyone was dead:
          (02129.) der wec dûchte sie gar lanc. (02129) The path seemed to them very long.
          (02130.) der walt von jâmerschalle clanc. (02130) The forest rang with woeful cries.
          (02131.) zû lande was in allen gâch; (02131) They all hurried only home;
          (02132.) der brûdere her zogete hin nâch. (02132) An army of knight brothers followed them.
          (02133.) die Mode (31) ein waßßer ist genant: (02133) The Great (Mode) (31) is called the river:
          (02134.) nâ in uber ûf daß lant (02134) behind them to the other side
          (02135.) die brûdere vûren mit gewalt; (02135) the knight brothers crossed with great strength;
          (02136.) sie brâchten manchen degen balt. (02136) they led many brave warriors.
          (02137.) Die von Plezcowe dô (02137) Pskov then
          (02138.) wâren der geste unvrô. (02138) were not happy with the guests.
          (02139.) die brûdere slûgen ir gezelt (02139) The knight brothers pitched their tents
          (02140.) vor Plezcowe ûf ein schône velt. (02140) in front of Pskov on a beautiful field.
          (02141.) der bischof und des koniges man (02141) The bishop and men of the king also
          (02142.) ir legirstat vil wol gewan. (02142) Very conveniently camped.
          (02143.) manich ritter und knecht (02143) Many knights (ritter) and bollards
          (02144.) vordienten wol ir lêgenrecht. (32) (02144) well deserved here their right to flax (32).
          (02145.) man ließ gebieten in dem her, (02145) They ordered the army
          (02146.) man solde bereiten sich zûr wer, (02146) prepare for battle,
          (02147.) und ließ sie dâ bie verstân, (02147) at the same time made it clear [to the campaigners],
          (02148.) man solde ouch zû sturme (33) gân. (02148) that they will also go on an attack.
          (02149.) die Rûßen wurden des gewar, (02149) The Russians noticed that
          (02150.) daß sturmen wolde manich schar (02150) that many units intend to storm
          (02151.) beide burc unde stat. (34) (02151) both castle (burc) and posad (stat) (34).
          (02152.) die Rûßen wâren strîtes mat (02152) Russians were exhausted from the battle
          (02153.) dâ vor bie Îsburc worden: (02153) near Izborsk:
          (02154.) sie boten sich (35) dem orden, (02154) they surrendered (35) to the order,
          (02155.) wan sie vorchten ungemach. (02155) because they feared [more] misfortune.
          (02156.) um einen vride man dô sprach. (02156) Then led the negotiations on peace.
          (02157.) der vride wart gemachet dô (02157) Peace was concluded then
          (02158.) mit den Rûßen alsô, (36) (02158) with the Russians on such terms,
          (02159.) daß Gêrpolt, (37) der ir kunic (38) hieß, (39) (02159) that Herpolt (37), who was their prince, (38)
          (02160.) mit sîme gûten willen ließ (02160) left his good field
          (02161.) burge und gûte lant (02161) castles and good lands
          (02162.) in der dûtschen brûdere hant, (02162) in the hands of the Teutonic brothers,
          (02163.) daß ir der meister solde pflegen. (02163) that they should be ruled by a master.
          (02164.) dô bleib daß sturmen under wegen. (02164) Then the assault on [Pskov] did not take place.
          (02165.) Dâ die sûne (40) geschach, (02165) After this reconciliation occurred,
          (02166.) nicht lange sûmete man dar nâch, (02166) did not wait long,
          (02167.) daß her brach ûf gemeine dô. (02167) The army then gathered on the return trip.
          (02168.) sie wâren alle in gote vrô (02168) They were all filled with God's grace
          (02169.) und gâben gote die êre: (02169) and praised God;
          (02170.) sie dankten im vil sêre. (02170) they were grateful to him for a lot.
          (02171.) dô daß her was bereit (02171) When the army was ready for the return campaign,
          (02172.) vrôlîch iß von dannen reit. (02172) it joyfully left there.
          (02173.) zwêne brûdere man dar ließ (02173) left two knight brothers there,
          (02174.) die man daß lant bewaren hieß, (41) (02174) who were assigned to protect the land (41),
          (02175.) von dûtschen eine cleine macht. (42) (02175) and a small detachment of Germans (42).
          (02176.) daß wart in sint zû schaden brâcht: (02176) This later turned to harm them:
          (02177.) ir hêrschaft werte unlange vrist. (43) (02177) their domination did not last long.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 16 New
            -4
            Yes there is, but in our chronicles what? Heinrich of Latvia also has it. For whom did the enemies write their reports? Part of the facts, and part of the lies.
            1. Kronos
              Kronos 15 July 2020 12: 30 New
              0
              It’s clear that my opinion contradicts the facts, the worse for the facts
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 15 July 2020 13: 09 New
                -1
                There is still common sense, so neither one nor the other should contradict him
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 15 July 2020 13: 13 New
              +2
              Quote: ee2100
              Yes there is, but in our chronicles what?

              About the same thing:
              summer 6748 (1240). Having taken the Germans, bears, Yurievites, Velyantsi with Prince Yaroslav Vladimirovich Izborsk. And come the news to Pleskov, as if the Germans had taken Izborsk, and having gone out all the Pleskovites, and having fought with them, and I had defeated the Germans. Immediately, you killed Gavril Gorislavich, the governor, and Pleskovich gondeche, a lot of beating, and others with your hands. And drove under the city, and setting fire to all, and a lot of evil swift; and the burning of the church and honest icons and books and the gospels, and many villages sat down beside Pleskov. And standing under the city for a week, but not taking the city; but the children had a good husband in the waist and didn’t do anything else, and was tak without peace, bye-bye holding the Pleskovites with the Germans, and Tverdilo Ivankovich brought them up from the Internet, and the very soil of the owner Pleskov from the Germans, fighting the Novgorod villages, and the Pleskovichi ran into to Novgorod with wives and children.

              In the summer, 6750 (1242). Go Prince Oleksandr with Novgorodians and with his brother Andrei and from Nizovtsy to Chyudskaya land on the Germans and barking all the way to Pleskov; and cast out Prince Pleskov, the Germans and Ishim, and having chained pots to Novgorod, and you go to chud.
              (Novgorod 1st Annals)

              Quote: ee2100
              For whom did the enemies write their reports?

              For yourself, if you are about the Chronicle.
              Quote: ee2100
              Part of the facts, and part of the lies.

              В чем вранье? В преувеличении числа врагов, особенно в тех случаях, когда Ордену случалось "огрести"? Так ведь Хроника - это не журнал боевых действий, а литературное произведение, написанное для восхваления славных подвигов братьев рыцарей.
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 15 July 2020 17: 50 New
                -5
                "Tак ведь Хроника - это не журнал боевых действий, а литературное произведение, написанное для восхваления славных подвигов братьев рыцарей." Вы сами отвечаете на свою риторику. Спасибо за честность
      2. svp67
        svp67 15 July 2020 11: 06 New
        +3
        Quote: Lesovik
        А меченосцы "вполне мирно" вошли в город после того, как разорили предместья Пскова.

        For fun, listen to this story by the military historian Klim Zhukov from 19 minutes 45 seconds ... and compare this story with Eisenstein’s film

        Quote: Lesovik
        This is probably why the Pskov militia, not long before this moment, lost 800 people (this is according to the annals) in an attempt to recapture Izborsk from the knights ...

        Why not 1000? The total losses, according to the THREE annals, amounted to about six hundred (600) and this figure is huge for the troops of that time.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 17 New
          -4
          This is not a document. this is a show of two bald men.
          1. svp67
            svp67 15 July 2020 11: 19 New
            +6
            Quote: ee2100
            This is not a document. this is a show of two bald men.

            One of which calls the sources from where the information is taken ...
            In particular, find in net
            NOVGOROD AND PSKOV: SKETCHES OF THE POLITICAL HISTORY OF NORTH-WEST RUSSIA OF THE XI – XIV CENTURIES
            Author: Valerov Alexey
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 21 New
              -2
              do not read. I will have time to get acquainted with the essays
          2. Ryaruav
            Ryaruav 15 July 2020 19: 39 New
            +1
            and you are not hairy except for the ABC book that something was read in history?
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 July 2020 19: 42 New
              -3
              hairy read
          3. Local from the Volga
            Local from the Volga 18 July 2020 18: 31 New
            0
            One of which is certainly no less your topic!
        2. Woodman
          Woodman 15 July 2020 12: 21 New
          -1
          Quote: svp67
          For fun, listen to this story.

          I would not want to believe that you study the history of your own country through videos on YouTube ... Moreover, the opinion of this historian (19 minutes 45 seconds and 28 minutes), in general, corresponds to what I wrote. The whole difference is that this historian does not dwell on the details. But if you have already given as an argument the opinion and interpretation of our contemporary with you, then here is the same opinion of your contemporary - Irina Voropaeva City of Bars. And if it will be quite interesting, that is, there are still Pskov annals, Novgorod, even the Livonian rhyming chronicle (to which Voropaeva refers) in translation.
          In the summer, 6748 (1240). Having taken the Germans, bears, Yurievites, Velyantsi with Prince Yaroslav Vladimirovich Izborsk. And come the news to Pleskov, as if the Germans had taken Izborsk, and having gone out all the Pleskovites, and having fought with them, and I had defeated the Germans. Immediately, you killed Gavril Gorislavich, the governor, and Pleskovich gondeche, a lot of beating, and others with your hands. And drove under the city, and setting fire to all, and a lot of evil swift; and the burning of the church and honest icons and books and the gospels, and many villages sat down beside Pleskov. And standing under the city for a week, but not taking the city; but the children had a good husband in the waist and didn’t do anything else, and was tak without peace, bye-bye holding the Pleskovites with the Germans, and Tverdilo Ivankovich brought them up from the Internet, and the very soil of the owner Pleskov from the Germans, fighting the Novgorod villages, and the Pleskovichi ran into to Novgorod with wives and children.
          This excerpt from the Novgorod annals. Please note - but the children of a good husband are in the waist and other things - some researchers interpret this phrase as taking hostages among the nobility, which explains the absence of the Livonian garrison in Pskov. Given that the city was surrendered by representatives of the nobility loyal to the Livonians, their loyalty and the presence of hostages completely allow the absence of a garrison.
          And, assuming a hostile attitude of the majority of the local population towards the Livonians, this can explain why the Livonians did not try to defend the fortress (large fortress) when Alexander Nevsky’s squads approached.
          1. svp67
            svp67 15 July 2020 12: 46 New
            0
            Quote: Lesovik
            This excerpt from the Novgorod annals. Note -

            that the Novgorod chronicle writes about the same word, in a word ... WINNERS write history. This does not contradict what I said. As at all times the alignment of political forces was different, there were both pro-Novgorod forces and pro-Volon forces ... And the common people didn’t really ask anyone ... although he suffered the most in these unrest

          2. ee2100
            ee2100 15 July 2020 12: 58 New
            -5
            A muddy story. If the knights attacked Izborsk and Pskov, where were the Novgorodians? I. Danilevsky friend point of view
            1. svp67
              svp67 15 July 2020 19: 22 New
              +3
              Quote: ee2100
              A muddy story. If the knights attacked Izborsk and Pskov, where there were Novgorodians

              Свои внутренние проблемы решали, один "конец" города не мог договорится с другим.
              And since 1228, Pskov left the alliance with Novgorod and concluded this with the Order of the Swordsmen
              "Обязавшись им помогать против Литвы, а от них требуя обороны от Новгорода..."
              And Pskov went with swordsmen against Lithuania, and Novgorod launched an economic blockade of Pskov. As a result, in 1233, the Pskov chamber expels its prince and again decides to enter into an alliance with Novgorod.
              Runaway Prince Yaroslav Pskovsky settles in Livonian Derpt. He tearsly begs the bishop for help. Even marries a German for new friends. And when the swordsmen went to Pskov, there was also a detachment in their ranks led by this prince. So, it is not necessary to be surprised that the cities of the Pskov principality opened gates in front of them.
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 15 July 2020 19: 44 New
                -3
                Interesting. Are there links to documents?
        3. Woodman
          Woodman 15 July 2020 12: 29 New
          0
          Quote: svp67
          Why not 1000? The total losses, according to the THREE annals, amounted to about six hundred (600)

          If only because in addition to the number 600 is found in our annals, in the Livonian - 800. If I indicated the arithmetic average would you be comfortable with this option?
          And if you knew about the losses of 600 people when trying to recapture Izborsk, then these phrases:
          their detachment quite peacefully entered Pskov
          ,
          weak sought protection
          look not entirely appropriate.
          1. svp67
            svp67 15 July 2020 13: 39 New
            0
            Quote: Lesovik
            If only because in addition to the number 600 is found in our annals, in Livonian - 800.

            Как говаривал Суворов: "А пиши их больше, чего басурманин жалеть..."
            1. Theodore
              Theodore 15 July 2020 17: 39 New
              +3
              Then Bishop Albert founded Riga at the mouth of the Neva in 1200.

              And what about this? I see it, only I noticed! No one else had any questions! recourse
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 15 July 2020 19: 19 New
                -1
                You shouldn’t be so. I noted this in the morning, but they tried to mark me in the morning
                1. Theodore
                  Theodore 15 July 2020 19: 25 New
                  0
                  This is success!
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 15 July 2020 19: 34 New
                    +1
                    not. This is just a reaction to the provocation!
          2. svp67
            svp67 15 July 2020 13: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: Lesovik
            look not entirely appropriate.

            Почему? Отряд, состоящий из "фогтов", то есть судей, а по большому дипломатическая миссия, по контролю соблюдения параграфов заключенного договора. Вполне нормально. В истории есть аналогичные примеры
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 July 2020 19: 20 New
              -2
              in general it is an analogue of the OSCE
        4. Boris ⁣ Shaver
          Boris ⁣ Shaver 15 July 2020 19: 03 New
          -5
          Quote: svp67
          military historian Klim Zhukov

          Each time has its own authority, yes.
          1. svp67
            svp67 15 July 2020 19: 37 New
            +2
            Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
            Each time has its own authority, yes.

            And why didn’t this please you? K.A. Zhukov - by education - historian. Expert in medieval weapons. Scientific Secretary of the Military Archeology Seminar at the Institute for the History of Material Culture of the Russian Academy of Sciences (2016). Head of the club of historical reconstruction "Swordsman". Head of the All-Russian Interclub Association of Historical Reconstruction "Livonian Order" and co-organizer of the All-Russian Interclub Association of Historical Reconstruction "Gran Company", as well as co-chair of the Association of Medieval Martial Arts.
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 July 2020 19: 47 New
              -5
              friend of the historian of the dismemberment. Not at all, good man!
            2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
              Boris ⁣ Shaver 16 July 2020 12: 52 New
              0
              Quote: svp67
              why didn’t this please you?

              Quote: svp67
              the secretary

              Quote: svp67
              head

              Quote: svp67
              head

              Quote: svp67
              co-organizer

              Quote: svp67
              co-chair


              I see that the administrator, I know that the video blogger. I don’t see why he should be trusted as an authoritative historian.

              Да и названия его клубов на определенные мысли наводят: "меченосец", "ливонский орден". А не предвзят ли он в обсуждаемом вопросе, с такими-то предпочтениями?
          2. Ryaruav
            Ryaruav 15 July 2020 19: 43 New
            -1
            history is an objective thing and does not depend on different interpreters, having eyes sees having mind analyzes
            1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
              Boris ⁣ Shaver 16 July 2020 13: 02 New
              0
              Quote: Ryaruav
              history is an objective thing and does not depend on different interpreters

              History may not depend (although here too - how to look, sometimes the same events are seen differently by two different eyewitnesses).
              But our knowledge of her - how else. And that in it, in history, is full of examples.
        5. Ryaruav
          Ryaruav 15 July 2020 21: 49 New
          0
          there the video says very clearly about the annals
    2. ee2100
      ee2100 15 July 2020 10: 13 New
      0
      Pskov always wanted to be equal in alliance with Novgorod, and Novgorod considered Pskov as its border fortress. This is where the Pskov’s separatist sentiments come from. In Pskov, after concluding an agreement with Dorpat, there were 2 tyunas and their protection. That's the whole squad.
      1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 15 July 2020 19: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: ee2100
        In Pskov, after concluding an agreement with Dorpat, there were 2 tyunas and their protection. That's the whole squad.

        You so zealously asked for sources here and so contemptuously rejected those that suggested to you that others had the opinion that you would immediately confirm any phrase with a reinforced concrete source.
        And here on you - write a dubious statement (at least - dubious) and do not bring a single source to it! Shame and disgrace, the right word.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 15 July 2020 19: 22 New
          -4
          Suppose the opinion of Ph.D. I. Danilevsky. Arranges?
          1. svp67
            svp67 15 July 2020 19: 32 New
            +2
            Quote: ee2100
            Suppose the opinion of Ph.D. I. Danilevsky. Arranges?

            Announce it, pliz. And most importantly, in what work he expressed it
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 July 2020 19: 37 New
              -4
              watch his story on youtube channel
              1. svp67
                svp67 15 July 2020 19: 59 New
                0
                Quote: ee2100
                watch his story on youtube channel

                I honestly didn’t understand now ... Well, please

                And listen to your proposed historian from 4 minutes, how is his story different?
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 15 July 2020 20: 18 New
                  -8
                  Есть и другие в т.ч. и про "освобождение Пскова" ищите и обрящите!
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 15 July 2020 21: 05 New
                    +1
                    Quote: ee2100
                    Есть и другие в т.ч. и про "освобождение Пскова" ищите и обрящите!

                    It is certainly interesting, but so far I see that nothing contradicts the thoughts that I express
          2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
            Boris ⁣ Shaver 16 July 2020 05: 32 New
            0
            Quote: ee2100
            opinion Ph.D. I. Danilevsky. Arranges?

            No, in this harsh discussion, such sources are not accepted. Look at what one of its participants writes below:
            Quote: ee2100
            некий <...> изологает "свои мысли и Вы на на них "ведетесь" Про летописи уже ни слова! Авторитет <...> зашкаливает!

            Так что, увы, но это некий Данилевский просто "излОгает свои мысли", а вы на них ведетесь, и не более того.
  2. Korsar4
    Korsar4 15 July 2020 08: 11 New
    +2
    I hope for detailed serious comments.
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 15 July 2020 08: 30 New
      +4
      Статью с ссылками на славянскую Атлантиду 2 тысячелетия до н.э. и "грандиозную фальшивку Ватикана" вряд-ли стоит серьёзно комментировать. hi
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 15 July 2020 08: 39 New
        +2
        The event itself.
        You understood the meaning of my phrase.

        There are a number of authors on the site whose vision of this event would be interesting.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 15 July 2020 09: 07 New
          -1
          I can speak out, but it will take time, if interested.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 15 July 2020 09: 15 New
            +1
            Interesting. And over time - how much it will come out. When interesting - located.
          2. Andy
            Andy 15 July 2020 10: 43 New
            -1
            for some reason I just don’t want to read you. probably due to disrespect for other authors and a very alternative (as if softer) vision
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 July 2020 10: 59 New
              -3
              So do not read. And if you read, indicate where is the alternative?
              1. Andy
                Andy 15 July 2020 11: 03 New
                -1
                do not flood. in the 1200s, a chain of losses from the onslaught of the crusaders from the west, the death of Vyachko in Tartu (and yes, Estonians also consider him a prince, even a monument to Vyachko and Meelis is in Tartu). to the Battle of the Ice. the author may unsuccessfully but tried to cover.
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 10 New
                  -2
                  памятник в Тарту поставили в советское время, как символ единения русского и эстонского народов и к реальной истории этот памятник имеет мало отношения это Ваша пропагандистская "история". Так где же натиск крестоносцев ?
                  1. Andy
                    Andy 15 July 2020 11: 21 New
                    +1
                    но до сих пор "незалежные" отмечают его князем и памятник переставили в Тарту, поближе к месту событий. я видел учебник истории Эстонии середины 90-х, с самостийной направленностью но почему к Вячко они нормально относятся. а могли б и вычеркнуть - как вы например
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 26 New
                      -4
                      Это опять политика и пропаганда. Вам бы лучше вообще не читать учебники истории эстонии и "незалежной". Сплошной маразм. Ответе на простой вопрос. Почему ни Псков, ни Новгород не пришли на помощь "князю" Вячко?
                      1. Andy
                        Andy 15 July 2020 11: 39 New
                        0
                        ну вот и обьясните почему. а то все что не по вашему -" пропаганда" и тд. с фактами пожалуйста !
                      2. ee2100
                        ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 41 New
                        -3
                        Think about it yourself. You know the source.
      2. ee2100
        ee2100 15 July 2020 09: 23 New
        -4
        Основной статьёй дохода Новгорода была торговля пушниой и они были в данном регионе монополистами. И вот шведы,за год,за два до описываемых событий решают эту монополию нарушить и основывают факторию в устье Ижоры и начинают скупать в тёплое время года пушнин у местных жителей . Новгородцы посылают, а не он сам "решил", князя Александра восстановить статус-кво. Александр с малой дружной появляется на берегу Ижоры ещё до прихода шведов и ждёт их. Когда те приплыли он на них нападает, но поступает очень рационально. Он не уничтожает их полностью, хотя используется своё преимущество вполне бы мог, а проводит устрашающе-разяснительную работу, объясняя прибывшим,что это земля новгородская и им тут делать нечего. Это все есть в летописях. По моему мнению этот инцидент и положил начало многовековому противостоянию между Россией и Швецией.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 15 July 2020 09: 29 New
          +1
          How big was the trading post? And did Jarl Birger have anything to do with her?
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 15 July 2020 09: 40 New
            -2
            Factoria is a symbol, maybe Ladoga residents simply collected, bought and stored furs for the Swedes. The fact is that the Swedes already sailed there at least once. Birger may just have a famous name. You know that there is no information about this battle in the Swedish documents.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 15 July 2020 10: 46 New
              +1
              Yes.
              But the presence of information in our documents and the parallax of this event clearly do not allow us to dismiss it as insignificant.
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 00 New
                -1
                Sacredness is not an event, but a figure.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 15 July 2020 11: 05 New
                  +1
                  The sacredness of a figure is determined by a chain of events.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 18 New
                    -1
                    or political order
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 15 July 2020 11: 34 New
                      +3
                      And that too. But the developed power of the descendants to a large extent shows the success of the ancestors.
    2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 15 July 2020 19: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Статью с ссылками на славянскую Атлантиду 2 тысячелетия до н.э. и "грандиозную фальшивку Ватикана" вряд-ли стоит серьёзно комментировать.

      Yes you give up. Even Toru is someone to seriously comment.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 15 July 2020 19: 33 New
        +1
        Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
        Even Toru is someone to seriously comment.

        There's nothing you can do. The Torah is the basis of the Old Testament. fellow
        1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
          Boris ⁣ Shaver 16 July 2020 17: 48 New
          0
          Quote: A. Privalov
          Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
          Even Toru is someone to seriously comment.

          There's nothing you can do. The Torah is the basis of the Old Testament. fellow

          When a caterpillar becomes a butterfly, it is not wise to discuss the caterpillar as something that is still relevant.
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 16 July 2020 18: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
            When a caterpillar becomes a butterfly, it is not wise to discuss the caterpillar as something that is still relevant.

            And there's nothing you can do about it. Believers are not driven by reason ...
  • Woodman
    Woodman 15 July 2020 08: 18 New
    +3
    Few people now know that present-day Germany, Austria, Denmark, the countries of Scandinavia, partly Northern Italy are created on Slavic bones and heritage.
    Very few people really know about this.
    1. smaug78
      smaug78 15 July 2020 08: 41 New
      +1
      Very few people really know about this.
      Yes, there are few carriers of truth about the Slavic Arians, very few. After all, the Liquid Aryans have led for centuries, but now they are hunting them, destroying the carriers of true knowledge, the Vatican will not let you lie ...
      1. Gato
        Gato 15 July 2020 08: 46 New
        13
        Yes, there are few carriers of truth about the Slavic Arians left, very few

        Wow ... Every year, fewer and fewer eyewitnesses remain. crying
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 15 July 2020 10: 17 New
          +8
          Quote: Gato
          Every year, fewer and fewer eyewitnesses remain.

          You are absolutely right! Not much time will pass and no one will be able to confirm to us the eternal inextricable link of the Etruscans with cowards and footcloths with Portugal, alas ...
          1. Gato
            Gato 15 July 2020 10: 27 New
            +2
            and no one will be able to confirm to us

            This is sad ... All that remains is to write (and read) the articles of the Mneee ... based on real events.
      2. ee2100
        ee2100 15 July 2020 09: 04 New
        0
        But do modern Jew-Aryans have names?
        1. smaug78
          smaug78 15 July 2020 09: 21 New
          +6
          I suspect that there are no names. But Samsonov mentions the Anglo-Zionists and the Vatican as their direct descendants and followers laughing
  • ee2100
    ee2100 15 July 2020 08: 46 New
    +3
    Все смешалось в этой пропагандистской статье, хотя посвящена она невской битве. Тут и немцы, рыцари,датчане и шведы все объединились против Руси. Особо отмечено,что вся эта свора не считает славян и коренных жителей современной Прибалтики и др.за людей и относится к ним как зверям. Оказывается Рига находилась (находится) в устье Невы! Колывань (Таллинн) построили новгородцы- реальное открытие в исторической науке. А князь Вячеслав Борисович- это Вячко? А он князь чего? Раньше писали ,что поводом для начала ливонского похода ИванаIV была "пчелинная" дань,а тут оказывается Ярослав Всеволодович подсуетился. И причём тут крестоносцев с монголами, если отмечается годовщина невской битвы?
    Странно описана автором невская битва. Указано количество участников с обеих , сообщается о координации действий шведов и рыцарей. Новые открытия автора - это "морская охрана" и оперативная связь ,толи конная эстафета,толи сигнальными огнями. Интересно узнать мнение автора , это нововведение новгородцев оно касалось только устья Ижоры или всех границ княжества?
    According to the chronicle, it turns out that the Swedes sailed and waited in their ships when the Novgorodians arrived, and this is at least 3 days' journey, and we still need to collect, and if we take into account that the information about the Swedes was delivered by the relay race, then this is a week, and poor Swedes are all they are sitting in their boats!
    And the exploits of the battle heroes are some kind of shed. One on a horse rode into a ship and fell into the water, the other marched a tent, which ensured victory in the battle.
    About the details described by the author I will not mention at all. Maybe the author witnessed this battle?
    A good story for elementary school students, but not for this site.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 15 July 2020 08: 52 New
      +2
      Primary school students also need good literature set out in good language.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 15 July 2020 09: 00 New
        0
        Вот пусть "хорошим языком" для школьников и пишет. Интересно, что автор ссылки не даёт. Может кино какое-то посмотрел.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 15 July 2020 09: 04 New
          +2
          Not so simple.
          Children also feel "agitation."

          In my opinion, from what makes the history of his country alive - the lines of A. K. Tolstoy.
    2. Gato
      Gato 15 July 2020 10: 36 New
      -2
      Details borrowed by the author from the annals of the XVI century. Guess two times whether Alexander Nevsky was a direct ancestor of the then rulers of Russia.
      I suspect that political propaganda was invented long before the Egyptian pharaohs ...
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 15 July 2020 10: 47 New
        -3
        The order for the cononization of Alexander Yaroslavovich came during the reign of Ivan III here and the fortuneteller does not go to whom it is beneficial. But why exactly he was ranked among the saints is a very interesting question.
        1. Gato
          Gato 15 July 2020 14: 43 New
          +1
          And here is why it is his

          Who? The personality is certainly outstanding - both as a politician and as a military leader. At that time, having a saint in your ancestors was even more than being a direct descendant of Lenin in the USSR.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 15 July 2020 16: 32 New
            -5
            according to chronicles, he participated in 3-4 military battles, and then was in the service of the Tatars. And what is there to be proud of?
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 15 July 2020 20: 39 New
              +2
              Quote: ee2100
              according to the annals, he participated in 3-4 military battles, and then he was in the service of the Tatars. And what is there to be proud of?

              Well, who then was easy? Let those from contemporary Alexander Yaroslavich, his relatives, who have dedicated their whole lives to the holy struggle against the Mongol invaders, throw a stone at him. lol
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 15 July 2020 20: 46 New
                -3
                Well, at least his brother is a uterine Andrew. Yes, I did not find glory, but at least I remained honest, and not a collaborator
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 15 July 2020 20: 54 New
                  +1
                  This is Andrew, who, in 1247, together with Alexander, joyfully rushed to Karakoram for a label on part of his father’s inheritance?)))
                2. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 15 July 2020 21: 00 New
                  +1
                  Perceive Andrei, brother of Alexander Yaroslavich, the hand does not rise as a positive character.
            2. Gato
              Gato 15 July 2020 22: 56 New
              +2
              was in the service of the Tatars. And what is there to be proud of?

              Here it is not necessary to pull the feudal owl on the national globe. Well then there were no nation states, and the very concept of nation. They served a particular feudal lord, even a service is not a service in the modern sense, but the fulfillment of certain vassal obligations, on both sides. The collective feudal lord represented by the squabble merchant Novgorod is no better than Batu Khan.
        2. bober1982
          bober1982 15 July 2020 18: 16 New
          +2
          Quote: ee2100
          But why exactly he was ranked among the saints is a very interesting question.

          The church canonized Alexander Nevsky in the face of the faithful, as the noble prince, that is, as a ruler who was guided by Christian virtues.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 15 July 2020 18: 34 New
            -3
            So what? And the fact that he tortured his masters for the sake of his masters and tormented his people is also a virtue?
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 15 July 2020 18: 39 New
              0
              It’s not clear what kind of owners?
              Soviet propaganda, of course, was in a predicament, had to talk only about his military merits.
              1. ee2100
                ee2100 15 July 2020 18: 45 New
                -2
                Как тут пишут "изучайте мат.часть" татаро-монголам конечно,если они конечно "были". Провел перепись населения и нещадно взимал дань, пытал ,убивал и глазки выкалывал
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 15 July 2020 18: 46 New
                  -1
                  Clearly, I’d better watch football.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 15 July 2020 18: 51 New
                    -3
                    and I would be with you, but if you don’t answer, they will consider it not Copenhagen laughing And who is playing?
                  2. ee2100
                    ee2100 15 July 2020 18: 53 New
                    -2
                    Spartak - Akhmat see
                    1. bober1982
                      bober1982 15 July 2020 19: 39 New
                      -1
                      Krylya Sovetov FC - FC Krasnodar
          2. ee2100
            ee2100 15 July 2020 21: 02 New
            -3
            and what did he get for it?
    3. Andy
      Andy 15 July 2020 10: 41 New
      -3
      ну написал Нева вместо Зап.Двины. ой-ой! тем более далее о событиях на Неве рассказ. подрубленный шатер вас не устраивает? а чего воины того времени смотрели на свой стяг? стоит- сражаемся, пал- проиграли. чисто психологически. и опять крестоносцы с монголами у такого " историка" как вы где-то в параллельном мире. что на Руси происходило вы рассматривать не склонны
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 15 July 2020 10: 52 New
        -1
        If only Riga. And everything else. As soon as such texts are skipped? Alexander’s father had already agreed with the Mongols, and when did they attack the knights in Russia? Unlike you, I live in real time, you are in the propaganda.
    4. Andy
      Andy 15 July 2020 10: 48 New
      0
      Quote: ee2100
      And Prince Vyacheslav Borisovich is Vyachko? And he is the prince of what?

      here on the site there was already an article about Prince Vyachko. no need to clumsy.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 15 July 2020 10: 56 New
        -2
        Fortunately, I didn’t read it.
        1. Andy
          Andy 15 July 2020 11: 00 New
          +1
          It seems that it was not written by this author, but thanks anyway for showing your essence, disrespect for other users. and yes, don’t like it, don’t read. we don’t want to read you either
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 15 July 2020 11: 02 New
            -6
            Have a nice one you too!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 15 July 2020 10: 44 New
    10
    In 1187, a Novgorod, Izhora, and Karelian army took and burned the Swedish capital Sigtuna with a sudden blow. After this pogrom, the Swedes did not begin to restore the old capital and built a new one - Stockholm.
    Another portion of delirium from Samsonov. Archaeological excavations show that Sigtuna continued to grow and develop until at least the mid 1300s. No layer of soot, ash and other traces of the fire were found. In the middle of the XIV century, the city began to lose its importance as a trading port and fell into decline due to a change in the relief caused by glacioisostasis.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 15 July 2020 12: 00 New
    14
    Another portion of fantasy from Samsonov. In terms of the concentration of crap in the text, Samsonov surpasses any author on the VO and is only slightly inferior to some particularly odious commentators. What the author writes about the Middle Ages has the same relation to history as the work of Tolkien. So I see how the powerful tall fair-haired Russo-arias with sad blue eyes confront the wild hordes of the West, under the leadership of the Dark Lord of Evil, in unequal battles, how they bring the Good and True Light of Fiery Orthodoxy to the native population, while from the West only death comes to them and persecution.
    It remains only to tell us about the Great Shrines of the East, once stolen by the Dark Lord from the High Elf ... ugh, you, from the Superethnos, and placed in the Secret Vault of the Vatican. Well, the Ring of Power, of course. Go ahead, Samsonov. fool
    On the Neva battle briefly.
    The trade route in the Baltic is a tidbit for any state. To have a part of it is a great help for any ruler. The Nevsky campaign of the Swedes is nothing more than an attempt to intercept this path. The place at the mouth of Izhora is very convenient for the construction of a fortified point that could control the Neva - somewhat higher upstream - the Ivanovo rapids, and from the mouth of Izhora, an impenetrable section with a fast current begins.
    The Swedes landed on the Neva coast and began to dig in - to build a fortress. If we let them finish this business - it would have turned out like 60 years had happened with Vyborg or Landskrona - they had delayed, and then for a long time and painfully, with heavy losses, the Swedes were picked out from there, from Vyborg right up to the XNUMXth century.
    Шведская экспедиция была не особенно масштабной - скорее всего, небольшой воинский отряд и группа "инженеров", плюс, вероятно, рабочие. В планах было построить крепость, оставить гарнизон и домой. Александр отреагировал быстро - сбил охрану и исключил возможность продолжения работ. Смысл экспедиции пропал и шведы вернулись домой. Попытка перехватить Неву как торговую артерию провалилась. Ландскрону они ставили уже умнее - в устье Охты на другом берегу реки и как можно ближе к заливу, но чтоб с одной стороны наводнения не доставали, а с другой - чтобы и Новгороду труднее было дотянуться через реку.
    Just touched
    Swedish feudal lords Jarl Birger and Ulf Fasi

    Автор, "ярл" - это должность, на которую назначал король. Биргер и Ульф - имена собственные, Фаси - прозвище. Биргер был Магнуссон, Ульф - Карлссон, оба из одного рода Фолькунгов. В 1240 г. ярлом был Ульф, с 1248 г. - Биргер. Историки не исключают возможность присутствия на Неве в 1240 г. Биргера, но ярлом он тогда не был точно. Шведы никаких свидетельств о Невской битве не оставили, но это значит только то, что для них это событие было очень малозначительным. Также, как для русских событием не явилось взятие Сигтуны.
    By the way, on Sigtuna.
    The Russian annals did not say a word about this event. The early Swedish chronicles do not mention the participation of Russians in it - the first mention of this dates back to the beginning of the XIV century. Before that, the conversation was only about the Karelians. In Sigtuna itself there never was a cathedral with large metal gates. But they were in the Polish Plock, and then disappeared after the Lithuania raid. And then similar ones appeared in Novgorod.
    So, most likely, the Russians in the campaign to Sigtuna, if they participated, are in miserable quantities and exclusively on a private basis, and the gates were bought or received as a gift from the Lithuanians who had robbed Plock.
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 15 July 2020 12: 37 New
      -6
      Путь из " варяг в греки" утратил своё значение, к описываемым событиям. Шведы просто колонизировали свободные или слабоконтролируемые земли. Отсюда и Выборг, Ландскрона и в последствии захват крепости Орешек.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 15 July 2020 13: 03 New
        +6
        The Volga route remained, and trade with Russia itself was of great importance - furs and wax in exchange for iron and later silver.
        Шведы не колонизировали, а захватывали. Знали, что берут "чужое", а не "ничейное".
        I'm already here and captivate your land

        You have a strange view of history, it is completely incomprehensible to me by whom it is formed. Literally on the verge, and ingoda and the passing line between history as a science and pseudo-history. Either you think a lot, but regrettably know little, or you have some kind of source unknown to me from a series of new pseudo-historians.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 15 July 2020 13: 06 New
          -4
          What is the difference between colonization and capture? Indeed, unlike knights, they did not hide in missionary activity
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 15 July 2020 13: 08 New
            +2
            Quote: ee2100
            What is the difference between colonization and capture?

            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Знали, что берут "чужое", а не "ничейное".
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 July 2020 13: 15 New
              -2
              Did Ladogaites, Izhertsy pay tribute to Novgorod?
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 15 July 2020 14: 01 New
                +2
                What are you speaking about?
                Ladoga is a Novgorod suburb. Like Pskov, Torzhok, Volok, Rus and others.
                Ижора, водь, весь - финно-угорские народы, жившие на территории собственно новгородского княжества, одна из новгородских пятин так и называлась "Водская". О какой дани речь?
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 15 July 2020 14: 07 New
                  -5
                  Водской пятиной она стала в XV веке, а то что Вы перечислили это земли на которые распространяется "интерес " Новгорода.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 15 July 2020 16: 42 New
                    +3
                    And I will gather many, strength is great evil, I’ve eaten the prince with my piskups, and Murmansk, and Sumy, and Imen, and so fill up many of my regiment’s ships, and have moved in great strength, breathless spirit, and came into the river Neva and one hundred mouth of Izhera, staggering with her madness, although even though Ladoga, also Novgrad and the entire Novgorod region, too. And the ambassador’s packs, with great pride, to Prince Alexander Yaroslavlich in the great Novigrad, and pako: “As long as you can resist many, the Queen, then I already have this health and slaughter your land».

                    At that time, the Swedes clearly recognized the lands of Izhora and Vodi as Novgorod, in contrast to the lands of Tavast, Emi and Sumi.
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 July 2020 17: 01 New
                      -7
                      I do not know this quote. Maybe indicate the source.
                      А если так.Давайте представим , как это было. Приплыли шведы и спрашивают ижёрцев "Чья земля?" а те отвечают - Новгорода. И что, по Вашему будут строить укрепления шведы за сотни км от мерополии, да еще и малым личным составом? Ответ очевиден. Они же не самоубийцы. А если представить, что шведы спрашивают, как у нас в 90-е, "кому платите?" Аборигены отвечают, что ни кому. Вот тут шведы и решают, что теперь эта их земля.
                      If you think that the Swedes built fortifications, where does this information come from?
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 15 July 2020 18: 08 New
                        +5
                        Quote: ee2100
                        I do not know this quote

                        Novgorod is the first chronicle of the younger edition. You can see it here: http://yakov.works/acts/12/pvl/novg24.htm
                        Quote: ee2100
                        Swedes will build fortifications hundreds of kilometers from meeropolis

                        They built it. The same Landskrona. Between Izhora and Okhta, only 20 km in a straight line, although they are on different banks. You do not deny the existence of Landskrons?
                        You imagine the Swedes as vagabonds of some kind, who do not know where they have sailed to anyone. Before that, they had walked a hundred times past to Novgorod and back, they knew perfectly well whose land this was and the landing place they had previously chosen. This is not the seventh century, when the Scandinavians just started to explore the surroundings.
                        Quote: ee2100
                        Swedes built fortifications, whence such information

                        In this regard, the hypothesis of V.A. Kuchkina that in 1240 the Swedes wanted to build a fortress at the mouth of Izhora - to establish a fortification here, which would develop a mission in the surrounding tribes and control Novgorod trade. This would seem to be indicated by the news of ZHAN about the "elder in the land of Izhora" Pelgusia, who was entrusted with the "guard of the sea" in the Neva mouth - "standing at the edge of the sea to mash both ways." It is believed that it was Pelgusius who reported to Novgorod about the arrival of the Swedish army:
                        “Seeing the strength of the military ides against Prince Alexander.
                        Yes, tell him the camps, and ditch them. ”
                        Under the "dipping" V.A. Kuchkin is ready to understand “battle ditches,” that is, the initial work in the construction of the earthen ramparts of the fortress. Some later subject explorers agreed with this.

                        D.G. Khrustalev “Northern Crusaders. Russia in the struggle for spheres of influence in the Eastern Baltic of the XII-XIII centuries. "
                      2. ee2100
                        ee2100 15 July 2020 18: 31 New
                        -8
                        некий Кучкин изологает "свои мысли и Вы на на них "ведетесь" Про летописи уже ни слова! Авторитет Кучкина зашкаливает! К стати о сегодняшней, надеюсь дискурссии, где там про укрепления, что строили шведы со своим королем?
                      3. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 15 July 2020 19: 14 New
                        10
                        Quote: ee2100
                        a certain Kuchkin

                        Кучкин для вас не авторитет? А кто? Вы предлагаете вообще игнорировать труды историков, считая собственный "здравый смысл" мерилом всех истин? Вы хоть на час можете предположить, что люди, которые изучают историю во всяком случае, не глупее вас, но знают при этом по своей теме во многие разы больше вашего?
                        Quote: ee2100
                        About the annals already not a word!

                        Упомянутые в летописи "обрытья" из приведенной цитаты вы, видимо пропустили. Я вас понимаю, легко и приятно не замечать то, что не хочется замечать.
                        Quote: ee2100
                        what did the Swedes build with their king?

                        What is this all about?
                        Well, as for your own designs, then, I'm sorry, I don’t even want to criticize them - they are so baseless and far-fetched. Maybe if you deign to state them more clearly and with references to sources (I, unlike you, consider them to be, including the works of scientists, so you can refer to them as well), we can discuss this issue in more detail.
                        And then of the two of us so far, only I am arguing my point of view at least somehow and I am already getting bored. request
                      4. ee2100
                        ee2100 15 July 2020 20: 30 New
                        -3
                        До сих пор отношусь к Вам, как к автору прекрасных статей про Ярослава Всеволодовича, были у меня с Вами мелкие не согласия,но не болееА из последнего "а то из нас двоих пока только я один свою точку зрения аргументирую хоть как-то и мне уже становится скучно."   Давайте определимся в системе координат, а так проблемов нет
                      5. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 15 July 2020 21: 11 New
                        +6
                        Я привожу цитаты из летописей и ссылки на труды специалистов по вопросу. Вы - только на "здравый смысл". Давайте так - вы в нескольких предложениях сформулируете своё понимание причин и значения Невской битвы и объясните на основании чего вы так считаете. В этом случае наша дальнейшая дискуссия приобретет смысл.
                    2. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 July 2020 21: 24 New
                      -4
                      I will answer according to
  • ee2100
    ee2100 15 July 2020 14: 32 New
    -5
    The Battle of Grunwald is not covered at all on the site, but today it is 610 years old. As the official story writes, this is also our victory
  • AK1972
    AK1972 15 July 2020 16: 26 New
    +4
    As a result, Alexander had about 300 professional fighters - combatants and about 1000 thousand warriors.

    Million!!! Well then, it is not clear why Alexander Yaroslavich did not dare to besiege Rome, and even the Russian yoke could be arranged in the horde. Samsonov never edits his texts. Samsonov is not a reader, Samsonov is a writer.
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 15 July 2020 17: 03 New
      -6
      What does he smoke? And what does the moderator smoke?
  • ee2100
    ee2100 15 July 2020 17: 58 New
    -5
    "Гуру" данного подсайта, кроме "хозяина доисторического членистоногого", предсказуемо слились в полном единении. Как раньше и сообщал, тут образовался определенный кружок. кто-то из них пишет и получат гонорар, а остальные его хвалят (пан кот - передовик в этом деле) или на оборот, как сейчас они делают вид, что не видишь чей-то высер. Как сегодня. Слышал, что у хозяев проблема с финансированием данного сайта. Печатайте ещё более глубокую чушь и посещаемость увеличится. Отрицательный результат - тоже результат!
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 15 July 2020 21: 01 New
    -1
    I propose to the author to get acquainted with the genetics of Germans, they have practically no Aryan (Slavic) R1A1, so that you don’t have to carry nonsense about the Slavic roots of Western Europeans.
  • times
    times 24 July 2020 21: 40 New
    -5
    Now it is possible to prove to each other something hoarse, referring to sources with dubious reliability.
  • Valeriy A. Proskournin
    Valeriy A. Proskournin 4 September 2020 18: 07 New
    0
    "Who will come to our land with a sword ..."
    I do not know how it was "in reality", but those who watched the film remember well the great Cherkasov, who played the Grand Duke ...
    and, probably, it was only me, an illiterate, did not understand that Alexander Nevsky expressed only a paraphrase ...
    but literate Orthodox Christians know for sure that the original phrase belongs to Ap. Matthew: "Then Jesus says to him: Return your sword to its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword" (Matt. 26:52) ...
    it is true that the Russian prince says his famous phrase, referring to the enemies of Russia, and Jesus turns to his defender, who shields the Teacher from the "policemen" who have come for Him ...