Military Review

Why is it difficult to determine the poorest republic of the USSR: facts about the economy before and after the collapse of the union

102

Balti city, 1980s



The Soviet Union was a huge state, which included completely different economically, geographically, and ethnically regions. Therefore, it is possible to compare the poverty level in one or another republic only very conditionally.

First of all, if we talk about such an indicator as GDP, it showed the largest growth in Georgia, Armenia, Estonia and Latvia, and the lowest growth - in Moldova, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Belarus and the RSFSR. Moreover, in Belarus and the RSFSR, the growth was even negative. But does this really mean that the RSFSR lived worse than those of Armenia or Tajikistan? Yes and no, because the level and quality of life of the population in the Tajik mountain village and in the large city of the RSFSR differed as significantly as in Dushanbe or Yerevan and the working village somewhere in the Urals.

The differences in GDP growth that we see in statistical materials do not reflect the real situation that took place during the Soviet period. In reality, the level of economic development of the republics could be completely different: it is clear that Tajikistan is hardly worth comparing the industrial Sverdlovsk region with the Mountain Pamir (Badakhshan AO). A variety of factors played a role - from climatic conditions to historically emerging forms of management, the level of development of science and education, etc.,

- says the financier Vladimir Semenov.

Perhaps the best real situation with the economic development of the republics of the USSR can be seen in the example of living standards in post-Soviet states. It was the collapse of the Soviet Union that demonstrated which of the republics had a truly developed economy, and who was more a consumer than a producer. After 1991, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan in Central Asia, Armenia in the Transcaucasus, as well as Moldova, immediately became outsiders.

At the same time, the “poor” under the Soviet regime, Russia and Belarus, as well as Kazakhstan, were among the leaders in terms of living standards in the post-Soviet space. This can be explained by only one reason: in Soviet times, the regions were among the donors, giving part of the output and even human resources to the national republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia, as well as the Baltic states.

The Baltic republics were significantly poorer than in the Soviet period, but credit support from the USA and the EU did not allow them to finally “bend”, although hundreds of thousands of young citizens of Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia went to work in Western and Northern Europe, and they remained there . The demographic situation in the Baltic states is much worse than the economic one.


The beautiful nature of Tajikistan has not become the key to its economic prosperity


In contrast to the Soviet era, in the post-Soviet space, the leaders in terms of living standards and the pace of economic development were those countries that either had significant natural resources, had an advantageous geographical position, or retained a significant industrial infrastructure.

Tajikistan turned out to be the poorest state in the post-Soviet space. The civil war, the destruction of existing economic ties, the outflow of the Russian-speaking population contributed to the deterioration of the economic situation in this Central Asian republic. Today, a significant part of Tajik families live off their relatives working in other countries, primarily in the Russian Federation.

In terms of living standards, Tajikistan is comparable to poor African states. Although the standard of living of the population has increased significantly compared to 2000, the economy of the republic is still dependent on external factors, among which are support from Russia and the work of Tajik migrants on countless Russian construction sites.

Such a “fall down” would hardly have been possible if the Tajik SSR had really been an economically developed republic in the Soviet period. But, as it turned out, the low level of industrial development, the lack of their own qualified personnel, together with political instability, played a role.

The situation in Kyrgyzstan turned out to be almost similar, which is also on the list of the poorest states of the post-Soviet space. In Soviet times, Kyrgyzstan lived pretty well, but almost immediately after the collapse of the USSR, the republic literally fell into total poverty.
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  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 14 July 2020 11: 06 New
    15
    After 1991, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan in Central Asia, Armenia in the Transcaucasus, as well as Moldova, immediately became outsiders.

    The author looks narrowly .... Moldova under the USSR, although it produced its own, was not an industrial republic. It was more a resort region, due to its climate. Somewhere it was necessary to mine coal, and somewhere it was necessary to rest. Although, for example, the tobacco industry, winemaking, furniture and textile were well developed in Moldova.
    As for Tajikistan, he supplied cotton, which was very necessary for the country.
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 14 July 2020 11: 12 New
      +6
      Quote: NEXUS

      Narrows the author ....

      It’s not at all clear where the author is looking ... a very superficial article. In order to create the basis for debate in the debate. laughing

      the topic is gracious, you can tell so many things ... and in the article hints and squeezes ...
    2. Ryaruav
      Ryaruav 14 July 2020 20: 03 New
      0
      this is nonsense; 3 enterprises of Moldavidgomash-submersible pumps in PM for pl, microwires thinner than a hair, vibro-appliance, hefty meson, refrigerator plant, electric aurik washing machines (better than Siberia), cloud of concrete (the seismic was the best in the union personally experienced 3 earthlings and no spitak), we don’t think light food, we forgot one of the old tractor assemblies, tractors for vineyards, and it’s all with the skill and intelligence of the specialists who sent them, the Russians built the city for themselves and the suitcase-station-Russia
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 14 July 2020 22: 39 New
        -4
        Quote: Ryaruav
        and it’s all by the labor and mind of the experts sent,

        What kind of specialists?
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 15 July 2020 01: 16 New
        +4
        Moldova was still a major producer of composite materials in the USSR.
      3. Petrik66
        Petrik66 15 July 2020 09: 50 New
        +6
        I completely agree. It remains to add a defense: Vibropribor, Maison, Alpha, etc. And agriculture ?! Palm-tree gardens, the garden of the "Testament of Ilyich" - with all its drawbacks, these were technologies that were then unique. the first freeze-drying workshop in Europe, vineyards are no worse than French and Italian. Fine wines and cognacs, fruit and vegetable industry. And irrigation vegetable growing ?! Harvest did not have time to process, tomatoes, peppers ....... plantations of roses, lavender, sage ... and everything was just killed. I myself saw how in irrigated fields, locals dug aluminum pipes from the ground, through which water was supplied and handed them over for scrap. There used to be a saying: Romania - the backyards of Europe, Bessarabia - the backyards of Romania, and under Leonid Ilyich, from Moldova they made a highly productive modern agricultural complex. But, the pigs came and finished off the leftovers. In the markets, imported fruits and vegetables ..... Now Ukraine is in line. Having survived from the country of Russians, Jews, Moldavia turned into the same dull city ... about which it was before the USSR. Share.
        1. Starover_Z
          Starover_Z 16 July 2020 16: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: Petrik66
          But, Soros came and finished off the remnants. There are imported vegetables and fruits in the markets .....

          Even in SUMMER !!! And all industrial enterprises are safely buried. Each new government "shoots" loans around the world and at the same time periodically read about plans to privatize even the remaining units of successful enterprises. Full pipe!
    3. mister-red
      mister-red 19 July 2020 10: 32 New
      0
      Moldavia under the USSR, although it produced its own, was not an industrial republic.

      I wonder where such information comes from. Yes, each republic had its own specialization. Moldova is basically a country’s garden. However ... in Chisinau there were a huge number of high-tech enterprises. I myself worked at a microchip factory. There were several instrument-making plants; at the end of the Union, a Computer Plant was being built. A tractor factory, a refrigerator factory, a television factory, a pump factory - this is a list of only large enterprises with several thousand employees. Not to mention the left bank, that is now the PMR, and then all the same one republic. Light industry was also developed. So your reasoning is not entirely correct.
      Yes, now industry, if not at zero, then almost. Is that the production of building materials. Finally, they became an agrarian country, but the tomatoes in the store are right now Turkish, the apples are Polish, and so on.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Avior
    Avior 14 July 2020 11: 14 New
    +2
    The author would first decide what the rich and the poor are.
    GDP is an indicator in itself.
    It is also necessary to take into account the structure of production, not forgetting that prices in the USSR were non-market, therefore comparing the contributions of republics to the USSR in terms of prices does not make sense, therefore, it’s worth getting a bit, conditionally, the price is too high And the fruit is underestimated, and the structure of production is different.
    It is necessary to take into account the underestimated and valuable energy resources, which, during the transition to a market economy, revealed a clear imbalance.
    And many other factors
    1. WIKI
      WIKI 14 July 2020 11: 56 New
      +5
      Quote: Avior
      The author would first decide what the rich and the poor are.

      Baltic republics are significantly poorer compared to the Soviet period
      Then how to explain the dynamics from 2011-2019 of GDP per capita PPP. Russia $ 29,6 thousand per person, with a growth rate of 22%. Latvia 31,4 thousand $ people 58%. Estonia 35,8 thousand $ people 48%. The growth rate of Georgia is 63%, Armenia61%. Thank God at least 20% overtook Belarus, Ukraine 17%.
      1. Nastia makarova
        Nastia makarova 14 July 2020 12: 12 New
        0
        in their Baltic countries, growth is only from free money from the European Union, the Balts themselves no longer work in their countries, empty cities, half are already for permanent residence mainly in England
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 14 July 2020 13: 39 New
          -3
          Quote: Nastia Makarova
          the Balts themselves no longer work in their countries,

          In your opinion, is the total GDP growing by itself? 2012 -2019 Latvia growth + 28%, Estonia + 34%, Russia - (minus) 28%. What do you think happens in Russia?
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 14 July 2020 15: 19 New
            0
            I don’t know what is growing there, but people are leaving there, almost all of the youth has left, there is no work, prices are in Germany
      2. Avior
        Avior 14 July 2020 12: 38 New
        +1
        If you are about the quality of life of the population, then it is better to forget about GDP, it confuses more than gives information
        Even with PPP.
        Too much to look extra all.
        Starting from the structure of consumption of this GDP and the distribution of income levels, when the country has a large spread of levels across groups of the population.
        As for your numbers.
        Here's how to fit into them, that for Ukraine, for example, the average salary over the past 5 years has grown 3 times - from 3500 hryvnias in January 2015 to 11 thousand hryvnias in January 2020, that is, it came close to 30 thousand rubles
        https://index.minfin.com.ua/labour/salary/average/2015/
        How does this correlate with the 17 percent and other numbers you cited? In my opinion, very weak. And so it will surely be by all examples. There is no direct connection.
        Any other evaluation criteria are needed, but to begin with, it will be determined what exactly is being evaluated?
        If formal GDP is one, if the real standard of living of the population is different, if the level of development of the country is third.
        And this assessment, I think, should not be reduced to one or two figures.
        hi
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 14 July 2020 13: 01 New
          -2
          Quote: Avior
          How does this correlate with the 17 percent and other numbers you cited

          This is explained by the growth of housing and communal services tariffs. As an example:
          1. Avior
            Avior 14 July 2020 13: 33 New
            0
            the salary does not go to utility bills all.
            On your plate, I see that since 2015 the rent for a one-room apartment has increased 800 UAH in the winter, when the heating works, and this is a large part of the rent.
            and the average salary increased by 7500 hryvnias, so there is clearly no way to explain this.
            All these numbers are a crafty thing.
            Any assessment of something needs to start with a clear selection of criteria.
            1. WIKI
              WIKI 14 July 2020 13: 46 New
              +1
              You look in dynamics. Growth from 2011-2017 670%. A s. the fee is only 300%. Considering that the data in the picture are for 2017 only, the growth was not limited to six hundred percent.
              1. Avior
                Avior 14 July 2020 14: 16 New
                -4
                I gave data for the last 5 years, when the hryvnia exchange rate was relatively stable,
                in absolute figures, to take into account the real values ​​and the share of rent in income.
                judging by your diagram in 2017, rent growth has almost stopped, but if you have data for January 2020, please, take a look. And keep in mind that this is not the official data that I cited, but a newspaper picture with ceiling figures, they don’t even distinguish between winter and summer, and the difference will be significantly. therefore, it’s better to watch official figures rather than newspaper essays.
                Arbitrary numbers actually do not mean anything.
        2. doubovitski
          doubovitski 18 July 2020 22: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Avior
          If you are about the quality of life of the population, then it is better to forget about GDP, it confuses more than gives information
          Even with PPP.
          Too much to look extra all.
          Starting from the structure of consumption of this GDP and the distribution of income levels, when the country has a large spread of levels across groups of the population.
          As for your numbers.
          Here's how to fit into them, that for Ukraine, for example, the average salary over the past 5 years has grown 3 times - from 3500 hryvnias in January 2015 to 11 thousand hryvnias in January 2020, that is, it came close to 30 thousand rubles
          https://index.minfin.com.ua/labour/salary/average/2015/
          How does this correlate with the 17 percent and other numbers you cited? In my opinion, very weak. And so it will surely be by all examples. There is no direct connection.
          Any other evaluation criteria are needed, but to begin with, it will be determined what exactly is being evaluated?
          If formal GDP is one, if the real standard of living of the population is different, if the level of development of the country is third.
          And this assessment, I think, should not be reduced to one or two figures.
          hi

          If there is no standard for comparison, then there is no comparison itself. The value of GDP gives some idea of ​​the country's capabilities. But adjusted for the size of military and civilian production. If the share of the military is no more than 20%, then this is still a normal economy. Nuclear-powered missile carriers affect the value of GDP, but do not affect the amount of meat or milk produced. Since there are no well-educated economists among us, we have to operate with these data.


          As for the poverty of the Central Asian republics, we must understand the following: industrial production there will NEVER be developed. And this is not due to backwardness in development, it is due to national traditions and customs. A man, almost the sole breadwinner of an Asian family, can never feed a horde of 12-15 people, no matter what his employer wages. Therefore, he is FORCED to freeze snot at Russian winter bazaars, selling fruit or working on Russian construction sites, where they pay not as much as to Russians, but not as much as he could get at home.
          1. Avior
            Avior 19 July 2020 06: 00 New
            0
            GDP is not directly related to the standard of living of the population, so there is no point in discussing this
          2. TANKISTONE
            TANKISTONE 19 July 2020 19: 04 New
            0
            "The USSR is an empire vice versa!" On the network on u__be. 10 episodes
        3. doubovitski
          doubovitski 18 July 2020 23: 06 New
          0



          I do not agree with your statement about such growth. I have other numbers.
          1. Avior
            Avior 19 July 2020 05: 43 New
            +1
            A link to the source of your salary figures.
      3. dauria
        dauria 14 July 2020 13: 07 New
        -1
        PPP GDP per capita


        Very simple - do not touch the numerator, reduce the denominator. In short, throw out the extra "souls" or stop giving birth. For some time there will be explosive growth in GDP per capita PPP. You can also leave in the country one company of NATO and a couple of local prostitutes. So much for the per capita income. Something.
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 14 July 2020 13: 22 New
          -1
          And what do you think, the population of Ukraine has decreased over this period, or increased?
          1. dauria
            dauria 14 July 2020 13: 51 New
            +2
            And what do you think, the population of Ukraine has decreased over this period, or increased?

            There, in addition to the denominator, the numerator was also affected - here is the result. Arithmetic. Main, do not divide by zero. And then such a GDP per capita PPP get .... laughing
      4. Errr
        Errr 14 July 2020 14: 13 New
        0
        Quote: WIKI
        Then how to explain the dynamics from 2011-2019 of GDP per capita PPP. Russia $ 29,6 thousand per person, with a growth rate of 22%. Latvia 31,4 thousand $ people 58%. Estonia 35,8 thousand $ people 48%. The growth rate of Georgia is 63%, Armenia61%. Thank God at least 20% overtook Belarus, Ukraine 17%.
        But this can not be explained! Otherwise, you will have to explain how two of the three “Baltic tigers” (Latvia only let us down a little [“couldn’t”, probably laughing]) in the ranking were much higher not only in Russia and Turkey, but even in Poland, which is now friendly to them, which, unlike their hearts, really works, and goods produced by Polish manufacturers are present in the markets of many countries.
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 14 July 2020 15: 52 New
          +1
          And you goods of Brunei ($ 80 thousand), San Marino ($ 62 thousand), Cyprus, where have you met?
          1. Errr
            Errr 14 July 2020 20: 34 New
            0
            And in the Baltic states what? Oil and gas like in Brunei? A hundred foreign tourists a year for every local resident in San Marino? Or maybe I lagged behind life, and on the eastern coast of the Baltic Sea already managed to form as many as three offshore type of Cyprus?
            1. WIKI
              WIKI 14 July 2020 23: 22 New
              -1
              Something like this and live: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvia_Economy
              1. Errr
                Errr 15 July 2020 05: 29 New
                +2
                After reading the article on Wik, it would be nice to read the discussion: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Обсуждение:Экономика_Латвии
                And then, after all, Wiki writers - they are such Wiki writers! smile
                1. WIKI
                  WIKI 15 July 2020 10: 01 New
                  -3
                  I did not see anything special in the discussion.
      5. doubovitski
        doubovitski 18 July 2020 23: 30 New
        0
        Quote: WIKI
        Quote: Avior
        The author would first decide what the rich and the poor are.

        Baltic republics are significantly poorer compared to the Soviet period
        Then how to explain the dynamics from 2011-2019 of GDP per capita PPP. Russia $ 29,6 thousand per person, with a growth rate of 22%. Latvia 31,4 thousand $ people 58%. Estonia 35,8 thousand $ people 48%. The growth rate of Georgia is 63%, Armenia61%. Thank God at least 20% overtook Belarus, Ukraine 17%.

        Sources? This is not a conversation.


        Rates of growth? Last year you consumed ONE chicken, this year, TWO. Growth rate 200%. But, having eaten only TWO, you, safely, ... No need to juggle with the percentage of growth. It is also necessary to bring the absolute here.
  4. Ragnar Lodbrok
    Ragnar Lodbrok 14 July 2020 11: 15 New
    +7
    The poorest republics in the USSR are the RSFSR and the BSSR
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 July 2020 11: 20 New
      0
      In reality, such Tables, even if the numbers are true there, do not reflect anything.
      Prices were set by directive ,,
      1. doubovitski
        doubovitski 18 July 2020 23: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: Avior
        In reality, such Tables, even if the numbers are true there, do not reflect anything.
        Prices were set by directive ,,

        But, and the salaries of all participants are the same. Since the conditions for comparing all are equal, they can be considered fair.
        1. Avior
          Avior 19 July 2020 05: 39 New
          +1
          Table are not related to salary
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 14 July 2020 11: 35 New
      14
      This table does not correlate with the data of the author of the article at all .. which is not surprising. The article is really extremely superficial. Remarkably, Ukraine consumed more than it produced, judging by the table. But at the same time, they always believed that they fed Russia ..
      But in general, the fact that the RSFSR was a donor is not a secret, and the USSR in general also helped the world half the world. But in this regard, another point is interesting. Now there is no one to feed .. and the size of the army is much smaller and the state has thrown off social obligations .. Where is the money? Logically, we should already live no worse than Europeans .. but in fact we have 17 — this is the middle class ..
      1. apro
        apro 14 July 2020 11: 51 New
        -7
        Quote: Svarog
        Logically, we should already live no worse than Europeans ..

        By what logic specifically ... according to capital or what?
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 14 July 2020 11: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: apro
          Quote: Svarog
          Logically, we should already live no worse than Europeans ..

          By what logic specifically ... according to capital or what?

          By economic .. purely ..
          1. apro
            apro 14 July 2020 11: 54 New
            -8
            Quote: Svarog
            By economic .. purely ..

            Housekeeping needs to be provided with means of livelihood. A policy that would be fairly divided ... did not understand your idea ...
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 14 July 2020 12: 00 New
              +4
              Quote: apro
              Housekeeping needs to be provided with means of livelihood. A policy that would be fairly divided ... did not understand your idea ...

              So it turns out that now there is no management or fair division .. And why such a state? In other words, the economy is focused on the export of natural resources, the income from which is distributed among a narrow group of people.
              1. apro
                apro 14 July 2020 12: 29 New
                -2
                Quote: Svarog
                incomes from which are distributed among a narrow group of people.

                So this is capitalism. If anyone did not know ... and the electorate is confidently voting for it ...
              2. AU Ivanov.
                AU Ivanov. 14 July 2020 13: 33 New
                -6
                Among a narrow group of people, more precisely - shareholders, only 12-15% of profit from the sale of natural resources is distributed. The rest - taxes, fees, excise taxes go to the budget.
                1. 2 Level Advisor
                  2 Level Advisor 15 July 2020 11: 26 New
                  +1
                  and why do not you think the profit for all sorts of overstated construction / purchases / salaries? I think there’s still + the same amount goes .. it's all from profit to minus goes
                  1. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 15 July 2020 11: 35 New
                    +1
                    In a planned economy, funds were not appropriated - they were simply squandered. What about an owl on a stump, what about an owl - the effect is the same.
            2. Aag
              Aag 18 July 2020 17: 18 New
              0
              Quote: apro
              Quote: Svarog
              By economic .. purely ..

              Housekeeping needs to be provided with means of livelihood. A policy that would be fairly divided ... did not understand your idea ...

              You do not quite correctly interpret the goals of management. And you are completely mistaken about politics. Any (external, internal; under any system, state structure, we sweep aside utopian ones ..)
      2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 14 July 2020 12: 32 New
        -6
        Quote: Svarog
        Now there’s nobody to feed

        The article mentions Russian assistance to Tajikistan.
        Everyone knows about the help of Belarus.
        I believe that assistance to many other former Union republics has not gone anywhere.
        And you, my dear, or very inattentive, or, rather, deliberately distorting the facts of the demagogue.
      3. parusnik
        parusnik 14 July 2020 12: 36 New
        +4
        Where's the money?
        .... Well, they said more than once .... There is no money, but you hold on, if you go to business ... laughing
      4. Avior
        Avior 14 July 2020 13: 36 New
        +2
        all these tablets, which are full on the Internet, were taken from newspapers from the time of the collapse of the Union, when they all proved to each other that they feed them all.
        Neither sources, nor methods of selecting numbers, there is simply nothing to seriously discuss them.
      5. doubovitski
        doubovitski 18 July 2020 23: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Svarog
        Where's the money? Logically, we should already live no worse than the Europeans .. but in fact we have 17 - this is the middle class ..

        First answer the question - WHERE IS THE PRODUCTION? Where will the money in the state come from if it only drives energy resources and buys everything else? Here, they go there. No production, no taxes, no budget, hence the lice.
    3. Sailor
      Sailor 14 July 2020 12: 28 New
      +1
      Forgot to add, the yellow line produced, the green consumed.
  5. apro
    apro 14 July 2020 11: 20 New
    0
    I do not understand ... why compare the USSR. And what was. Soviet goal-setting. based on different values ​​than today does not give answers to today's problems. the union was built for its goals and objectives ... and today everything is different .... if someone did not notice.
    1. tatra
      tatra 14 July 2020 13: 03 New
      +5
      And why were the Communists not afraid to compare? After all, they compared their performance in WORK with the best year for the Russian Empire in 1913, although objectively it was necessary to make the starting point of 1922 — the state in which Russia finally got to it after the First World and Civil Unleashed by their external and internal enemies — to show a dozen times, dozens of times they began to produce everything the country and people needed. And the “enemies”, the enemies of the Communists who seized the republics of the USSR, are very afraid to compare the results of their well-paid work with the 1991 figures.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  6. Courier
    Courier 14 July 2020 11: 24 New
    +4
    Normally so sketched. Maybe it is better to compare the amount of funds invested in the RSFSR and in the countries of Central Asia and the Caucasus?

    And then look at how much industrial potential the countries had under the Union, and how much it saved later.

    Having thousands of Soviet enterprises in the RSFSR, it is certainly easier to keep a hundred or two plants at home and drive oil at a cost of $ 150 per barrel.

    In Central Asia and the Caucasus, there were a maximum of 5-10 large enterprises, which immediately died after the breakdown of supply chains. You can’t drive cotton into pipes and you can’t harvest 24 by 7 crops, but only once a year.
    1. Errr
      Errr 14 July 2020 13: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: Courier
      In Central Asia and the Caucasus, there were a maximum of 5-10 large enterprises, which immediately died after the breakdown of supply chains.
      The Tajik Aluminum Company TALCO (from 1975 to 2007 - the Tajik Aluminum Plant), however, still provides about a third of Tajikistan's exports and up to 75% of all foreign exchange earnings to the budget of this former Soviet republic. Union Heritage really works.
    2. sanya
      sanya 14 July 2020 14: 41 New
      -2
      And where did they come from ?!
      Russian and built!
      For Russian money, Russians built and worked for those Russian enterprises ....
      Let the Tajiks graze sheep. They do not need Russia
      1. Aag
        Aag 18 July 2020 17: 43 New
        -1
        Quote: sanya
        And where did they come from ?!
        Russian and built!
        For Russian money, Russians built and worked for those Russian enterprises ....
        Let the Tajiks graze sheep. They do not need Russia

        You either did not live in the USSR, or you distort the facts wildly (which is often now found with the filing of ... I don't know who). All significant construction projects were called All-Union, national, youth ... BAM, Baikonur, numerous hydroelectric power plants, Celina, many Therefore, to say that the Russians were building is at least not fair. The Soviet leaders by such internal migration, rotation solved a number of problems, removed some national problems ...
        ... If there is absolutely nothing to do in Tajikistan like grazing sheep, then we will get a very restless neighbor (imagine that you have a lumpen on the landing). And with the migration policy pursued in the Russian Federation, in some regions the number of Tajiks, Armenians, Uzbeks, etc. can become critically large. No matter how then we would not have to "graze the sheep" ...
        1. sanya
          sanya 18 July 2020 19: 53 New
          0
          But you never know how the komunyaki construction sites were called
          Georgians did not work at all-Union construction sites, but Russians worked
          And in general, what does BAM have to do with it?
          they built some kind of knitting factory in wonderful republics, the Russians built it for Russian money, and then they took Russian young girls and threw it “working” and swept into slavery to the joy of the natives ....
          And I personally wish you to send your daughter to Chechnya to solve national problems and promote the teachings of Marx in the Chechen masses
          1. Aag
            Aag 18 July 2020 20: 34 New
            -1
            Apparently, it makes no sense to conduct a dialogue with you if you deny the obvious things. Some Georgians, Armenians, etc., who built BAM, still live there. By the way, BAM remained on the territory of the Russian Federation ...
            And the products produced at the enterprises of one or another Union Republic were used directly or indirectly by citizens of the whole country. School uniforms made of wool and cotton from the Central Asian republics were processed at the BSSK BSSR ... The drivers of ErAZov, Kolkhid were cursing just because they didn’t collect them Russians ..)). The whole country traveled by trams and electric trains of the Riga Carriage Works ... Do not try to convince me that only Russians built and worked at those enterprises.
            ... Yes, no, judging by the other comments you cannot be persuaded. I will only note: if there were fewer rabid nationalists like you in the former allies, everyone would be easier ...
            1. sanya
              sanya 18 July 2020 21: 54 New
              0
              Well, where is all this now?
              Why take people in Russia, resources in Russia, finances in Russia and send all this to the devil knows who
              Build at home and use
              And let the Georgians live at home
  7. sanya
    sanya 14 July 2020 12: 02 New
    0
    Everything was regulated by prices for products, goods and services that were set by real communists
    As a result, some tangerines that themselves grew in a good climate in Georgia were estimated to be much more expensive than wheat produced in Russia
    So quietly and quietly squeezed out of Russia all that is possible ..
    Industrial production in the national republics is generally an oxymoron
    all resources were brought from Russia:
    Financial, equipment, people who built these plants, people who later worked at these plants
    often even raw materials in the end also provided a market ....
    They simply provided subsidies to the republics ...
    In the national republics, a gray market flourished, corruption, and in some places in the Caucasus, so generally parallel black economy ...
    In short, the destruction of the USSR is a great happiness for Russia
    1. mdsr
      mdsr 14 July 2020 12: 24 New
      +5
      Quote: sanya
      In short, the destruction of the USSR is a great happiness for Russia

      Are you out of your mind? With this logic, it is possible to reach the point that the destruction of Russia will be beneficial to our raw material regions fool
      1. sanya
        sanya 14 July 2020 14: 34 New
        -2
        No need to juggle
        Russia will not fall apart because most are Russians
        And your beloved USSR so fattened the national republics and milked Russia so that the Russians there became a minority ....
        Would you like to continue to feed the Georgians with the Tajiks in three throats at the expense of the Russian people?
        1. mdsr
          mdsr 14 July 2020 18: 14 New
          -2
          Quote: sanya
          And your beloved USSR so fattened the national republics and milked Russia so that the Russians there became a minority ...

          With the Union of Russians, it became more and more, and with zeroing, we are dying out at a terrible speed.
          Quote: sanya
          Would you like to continue to feed the Georgians with the Tajiks in three throats at the expense of the Russian people?

          And today we do not feed Tajiks and Uzbeks? Where do you live? Have you ever been to Moscow or St. Petersburg? There are almost more of them than us! And what nationalities are oligarchs today, you know? How many of them are Russian? First think what you write fool Who else needs to be disposed of so that we can live better? From Tatars, Bashkirs, Chechens, Tuvans, Evenks, Mari, Chuvash ...? And then what remains of Russia? fool
          1. sanya
            sanya 14 July 2020 22: 53 New
            +2
            Well, firstly, now the same komunyaki in power in the USSR were in power
            Same gang
            Secondly, Tajiks are building cities in Russia today, and under the Soviets, Russians, as now, Tajiks built cities in Tajikistan, built industries and worked there while Indians ate rams;)
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 15 July 2020 01: 26 New
            +1
            At least Russia, at its own expense, is not pulling all these republics - now they come to us, they build it, they clean it, they make money, they send it to their republics.
    2. tatra
      tatra 14 July 2020 13: 08 New
      +4
      And WHAT and TO WHOM is destruction beneficial, not just the USSR, but de facto, centuries-old Russia? Already definitely not degraded in EVERYTHING and impoverished Russia, 30 years after the destruction of the USSR, living off of the Soviet legacy and the massive export of raw materials and natural resources, which had lost its centuries-old history and culture. Certainly not the impoverished and dying Russian people.
      1. sanya
        sanya 14 July 2020 14: 38 New
        0
        It is beneficial for the Russian people
        Feed all the national republics and the entire social camp and Africa, etc.
        What for?
        Russia in fact was the poorest republic in the USSR ...
        But today they do not steal, but people still live better
        And in Armenia, Georgia is beyond poverty ...
        1. tatra
          tatra 14 July 2020 15: 44 New
          0
          You, the enemies of the USSR, TAKEN away money, social benefits, history and culture of our country from the Russian people, staged the multimillion genocide of the Russian people, made Russian people not even the second, but the third grade, after the Jews and Muslims. And you never fed anyone, you always, both during the USSR and after the seizure of the republics of the USSR, parasitized and parasitized due to the labor of others. Therefore, 30 years after your capture of Russia, you are not proud of the results of your highly paid work, only that you have raped and taken out of Russia.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 15 July 2020 02: 03 New
            -2
            Well, when when did the real genocide of the Russian people begin in 1917 and lasted for 53 years of events there were a lot during this period, including the bloodiest in the history of mankind and Russia as a whole - and this garbage that the USSR did not feed grandmothers on the bench starting from the 60s the Central Committee of the CPSU planted 120 countries of rogue people on the neck of the country, we equip them with equipment specialists factories food factories weapons - they didn’t pay us money in exchange for loyalty and unequal barter, and besides this, these communist frauds led by Ustinov drove the country into The arms race the pichy army with anabolics in the form of hundreds of thousands of tanks, tens of thousands of nuclear weapons lived according to the canons of World War II, the more the better the situation was, having kicked off the entire civilian sector, which was left without modern equipment, enough materials from engineers and much more. And yes, in none of these countries during the 30 years of their supply with us did something come up with any communist socialism in the next 30 years, all the more so. The history of Russia as a formation begins from 1387 until this time and after, right up to the present day, Russia has survived hundreds of invasions of the troubles of coups - survived and continues to live and develop further and if you think that 69 years of Bolshevik communist mistakes in the structure of the USSR they created is the whole story our country you are very wrong.
    3. nikvic46
      nikvic46 14 July 2020 19: 57 New
      -1
      "In short, the destruction of the USSR is a great happiness for Russia." If this is happiness, then why is there a conversation about returning these republics?
      1. sanya
        sanya 14 July 2020 22: 47 New
        +2
        Do not even dream :))))
        We are talking about how to push these republics when they are asked to feed to Russia
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 15 July 2020 17: 21 New
        0
        These conversations are only storytellers from politics and economics no more.
  8. fruit_cake
    fruit_cake 14 July 2020 13: 07 New
    +3
    RSFSR subsidized all republics, now we subsidize oligarchic clans and bankers
    1. sanya
      sanya 14 July 2020 15: 14 New
      0
      And the people now live much better
      In Russia, of course
      1. fruit_cake
        fruit_cake 15 July 2020 13: 43 New
        +1
        in credit slavery, crime and lack of future?
        1. sanya
          sanya 15 July 2020 14: 31 New
          -2
          The Russians didn’t have any future in the scoop ... The people drank drunk lived in wild poverty
          No one expressed Russian interests
          There was not even a Communist Party of Russia
          They would appoint some Aliyev and Shevarnadze or Nazarbayev as secretary general and all ... They would forget about Russia and Russians forever
          1. fruit_cake
            fruit_cake 15 July 2020 15: 10 New
            +1
            how old are you? young Russophobe
            1. sanya
              sanya 15 July 2020 15: 18 New
              0
              Why be rude?
  9. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 14 July 2020 14: 10 New
    +6
    In the period 1975 - 1985 I had to travel a lot around the USSR. Without relying on figures, but only solely on my own feelings, I will say that very poorly ordinary people lived in Dushanbe and Ashgabat. From small cities - in Gomel and Grodno, Orel and Belgorod. Penza, surprisingly, looked pretty decent. But Tula looked not important ...
    Tallinn, Riga and Vilnius were supplied in a completely metropolitan way. What was done in the small towns there, I do not know.
    In Minsk, on the territory of large enterprises, there were shops where they brought the "deficit" - carpets, imported clothes and shoes, radio goods, and so on. "grocery sets" ...
    Derbent and Makhachkala, in those days, were real holes. There is nothing at all in the shops, but the markets, especially from early morning, looked like cornucopia, only very dirty and neglected. Barrels with kvass were especially struck, where the glasses were rinsed in a bucket standing on the ground ... And black caviar was openly sold for 30-50 rubles per liter can ...
    No, for a nickel you could drive everywhere on a bus, but for 3 kopecks. in the tram where they were. Worked schools, kindergartens and clinics, libraries and the House of Pioneers. Markets - without interruption. It's like that. But in the state trade, the shelves were half empty, a terrible burda was served in the canteens, twice a week "fish day" - pollock and hake.
    It was possible to have lunch in the daytime in restaurants for an amount 5-6 times higher than in the canteens, and in the evening it was impossible to get in - either “special service” or a doorman pushed to the eyeballs without a “five” - do not come.
    A stick of dry sausage, or a cake from the capital, opened the doors to many offices of the management of peripheral enterprises and institutions. No, these were not those wild “kickbacks” known today, but rather a trifle, a sign of gratitude and a symbol of friendship.
    I repeat, these are the external impressions of the traveler. I did not live there for a long time to learn something deeper. So, the inhabitants of the cities I have listed, do not be offended by me. hi
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 14 July 2020 18: 17 New
      0
      It makes no sense to be offended. Since there is nothing to argue about at all. That's exactly it. That you were not in Transbaikalia.
    2. Aag
      Aag 18 July 2020 18: 10 New
      +2
      Yes, it seems, they wrote everything right ...
      Only, for some reason, I winced at the mention of pollock and hake. Having dealt with my own feelings, I realized: "in the USSR it was" utilitarian feeding ", now, judging by the prices ... It's not that cheap beef, but pollock catches up with it, hake overtook!
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 18 July 2020 19: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: AAG
        Not that the beef is cheap, but the pollock is catching up, the hake has overtaken it!

        You're right. Much has changed since then ...
        Today it is hard to believe that even in the 60s of the last century, pollock was generally considered conditionally edible fish. In the USSR, they even fertilized the fields.hi
  10. imobile2008
    imobile2008 14 July 2020 14: 30 New
    +3
    He traveled a lot around the USSR - by far the poorest RSFSR! And at times poorer (I'm talking about residents)
  11. Doccor18
    Doccor18 14 July 2020 16: 16 New
    +2
    Why is it difficult to determine the poorest republic of the USSR ...

    Because the USSR was a single state-organism. This is how to decide what is more important in the human body: liver or heart, brain or lymphatic system ...
  12. EvilLion
    EvilLion 14 July 2020 17: 05 New
    0
    The question is not who is the poorest, but at whose expense they lived. And they lived at the expense of the RSFSR and the BSSR, occasionally Azerbaijan provided more from oil than it consumed. Which actually appeared immediately.
  13. mmaxx
    mmaxx 14 July 2020 18: 12 New
    +5
    Russians very quickly survived from Tajikistan and were killed in addition. After that, the economy could not be remembered.
    Let them live as they want.
  14. faterdom
    faterdom 14 July 2020 22: 27 New
    +2
    Quote: mmaxx
    Russians very quickly survived from Tajikistan and were killed in addition. After that, the economy could not be remembered.
    Let them live as they want.

    In Tajikistan, almost the entire periodic table, on the slopes, three potato crops are grown per year, all natural zones are available - from the tropics to melting snow. From Soviet times, there were wonderful roads and equipment to support them (after flushing the roads, it was necessary to quickly restore), the Nurek hydroelectric station, a communication network ... Even experts, and numerous Russians, Ossetians, Tatars, and their own (Iranian-speaking Tajiks wave to themselves an ancient nation with their poetry and archeology) specialists.
    But the war, inspired both inside and out, when more than 90 thousand were killed in a short time, fled to Afghanistan and began to annoy more than 100 thousand from there, about a million Russians and other people fled to other countries ... Democracy in its terry version ...
    Tajikistan even introduced its money only in the second half of 1994 (when the USSR had not been there for three years), before that, the so-called "old Russian money" was used as money, dumped there after the reform of the money of the Russian Federation in the summer of 1993 from all other "new countries".
    We worked hard, so to speak, that there is no “economy” in its normal form even to this day.
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 15 July 2020 13: 59 New
      0
      And what to consider poverty and what to riches ??? Under the USSR, the one who ate well was already considered wealthy !!! It was calculated how many square meters of housing a person needs and, based on this, it was already considered whether a person was provided with housing or not ... And even a family living in the Khrushchev (on each other’s head) could be considered as provided with housing - as it was estimated that it had enough living space .. But the realities were different ... A car of almost any brand was a luxury for many ... So luxury that in the early 90s an old Muscovite was passed on as an inheritance from parents to his son ...)))

      What now ??? Some have 2-3 cars or a huge house but they do not consider themselves rich !!! It's all about human nature - the more you eat, the more you want. Of course, not all of them are - but personally in my circle there are plenty of such characters ... If you consider the European level of wealth to be the norm, then yes, not every citizen has his own big house, a prestigious car and a capitalist in the bank by the age of 30-40. ... But compared with how the people lived in the 80s and 90s - now, for the most part, citizens live better ...
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 18 July 2020 13: 22 New
        0
        Under the USSR, the one who ate well was already considered secured !!!
        I did not read further, but when I wrote I saw this:
        But compared to how the people lived in the 80s and 90s, citizens now generally live better ...

        You have chosen a good period for comparison, Andrey.
      2. Aag
        Aag 18 July 2020 18: 51 New
        0
        Quote: Selevc
        And what to consider poverty and what to riches ??? Under the USSR, the one who ate well was already considered wealthy !!! It was calculated how many square meters of housing a person needs and, based on this, it was already considered whether a person was provided with housing or not ... And even a family living in the Khrushchev (on each other’s head) could be considered as provided with housing - as it was estimated that it had enough living space .. But the realities were different ... A car of almost any brand was a luxury for many ... So luxury that in the early 90s an old Muscovite was passed on as an inheritance from parents to his son ...)))

        What now ??? Some have 2-3 cars or a huge house but they do not consider themselves rich !!! It's all about human nature - the more you eat, the more you want. Of course, not all of them are - but personally in my circle there are plenty of such characters ... If you consider the European level of wealth to be the norm, then yes, not every citizen has his own big house, a prestigious car and a capitalist in the bank by the age of 30-40. ... But compared with how the people lived in the 80s and 90s - now, for the most part, citizens live better ...

        Make a somewhat incorrect comparison. If you start from cars, you can "remember" that the citizens of the USSR could not afford cell phones).
        On nutrition, perhaps, I also disagree. In fairness, of course, in different regions it was different. Somewhere (Sakhalin) all squid for a penny was filled up, and in the Baltic States (!) Did not know what it is and what they eat; in the Angara region, there were also pigs fed grayling caviar, and in the Bryansk region, any fish, canned food, for happiness. Etc., etc. But in general, the food is healthier and did not starve, without frills ...
        About housing ... They waited, as a rule, for a long time. But they received. It was still possible to buy, they bought cooperatives. They were building in the village. Now a whole stratum of the population has organized for which housing does not shine at all! The mortgage will not be pulled, construction too. For the employer, sometimes, it is more profitable to hire the aforementioned Tajiks than to pay decently. Yes, and at the same time, another part of the population buys apartments for future use, so that the money does not disappear. Or for rent, where the first part takes them ...
        There are forecasts of what all this can lead to?
    2. bulava
      bulava 17 July 2020 00: 19 New
      0
      But they have the immortal Founder of peace and national unity - the Leader of the nation
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. NordUral
    NordUral 18 July 2020 13: 19 New
    0
    Shallow review weakly revealing a very difficult topic. But it’s good that a start has been made.
  17. sevtrash
    sevtrash 18 July 2020 14: 20 New
    0
    Much or all depended on who came to power.
    After the collapse of the USSR, basically the same people who were there came to power, the party nomenclature, plus the criminals, who seized the assets. Bodies hurried up, of course. They became oligarchs, relatives and children - officials at the budget trough. They are all happy with everything, they have assets, they cut budgets, in crises they cut the feeding trough for the national herd, but they feed it, otherwise - wool and meat from someone should be. And they do not need "Western" values ​​- adequate salary, acceptable loans, unsaleable law and order - how are they going to rob and cut? To hang noodles about patriotism, foreign intrigues to the electoral herd, and that's enough for him. You just need to keep the balance - not to steal everything, but to give the herd something to eat, a little bit of different benefits, you can't do much - you yourself need to, and a house in France, in Italy, a new yacht, an airplane, again, how can a family live without an airplane?
    It will take 200-300 years and maybe something will change. May be. But these people have power. And it will never be enough for them.
  18. Yakovlevich
    Yakovlevich 8 August 2020 10: 18 New
    0
    Is it necessary to compare? It is more pragmatic, IMHO, geosatellites, with their successes (?) And troubles (!), As it were, to postpone for sometime later ... there were, are not and will not be any brothers or friends at the geopolitical level. Everything else, from partners and allies to opponents ... is secondary. Sapienti sat ...
  19. donpablo
    donpablo 11 August 2020 14: 14 New
    0
    the poorest Ukraine and Georgia
  20. donpablo
    donpablo 11 August 2020 14: 18 New
    0
    [Center][/ center Russia all contained, in all large enterprises in Ukraine, transferred from Russia or "donated" by the communists. along with people and territories]