Military Review

The Warsaw Matins of 1794

142

I. Mateiko. Polish rebels welcome T. Kosciuszko. 1888 painting


In two articles brought to your attention, we will talk about the tragic and sad events that occurred in Poland in 1794. The rebellion, led by Tadeusz Kosciuszko and accompanied by the massacre of unarmed Russian soldiers in the churches of Warsaw ("Warsaw Matins"), ended with the assault on Prague (the outskirts of the Polish capital) and the third (final) division of this state between Russia, Austria and Prussia in 1795. The emphasis, of course, will be placed on Russian-Polish relations, especially since then there were interconnected tragic incidents, called the Warsaw Matins and the Prague Massacre.

The first article will talk specifically about the "Warsaw Matins", which occurred on Easter Thursday, April 6 (17), 1794. The events of this day are little known in our country, attention has never been focused on them, especially in Soviet times. That is why for many, this story may seem especially interesting.

"The eternal dispute of the Slavs"


Mutual claims and grievances of Poland and Russia have long-standing history. Neighbors for a long time could not decide on the degree of kinship, or on the size of the controlled territory. This was reflected in Russian epics, where some characters marry girls from the "Lyashsky land", and the hero of the epic "Korolevichi from Kryakova" is called the "hero of the Holy Communion of Russia." But even real dynastic marriages sometimes led to war - like the marriage of Svyatopolk (the “Cursed” son of Vladimir Svyatoslavich) to the daughter of the Polish prince Boleslav the Brave, who later fought on the side of his son-in-law against Yaroslav the Wise.

Perhaps, the main reason for the Polish hostility should be recognized as the failed imperial ambitions of the Commonwealth.

Indeed, at the peak of its power, this state was a real empire and, in addition to the Polish regions, also included the lands of modern Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia and Moldova.

The Warsaw Matins of 1794

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth on the map of Europe, 1635


Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, 1635

The Polish Empire had a chance to become a powerful European state, but it collapsed literally in the eyes of its contemporaries, not at all surprised by its fall. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth not only lost the territories once conquered, but also lost its statehood, which was restored only in the XNUMXth century - by decision and with the consent of the Great Powers. The main reason for the fall of the Commonwealth was not the strength of the neighbors, but the weakness torn by internal contradictions and poorly managed Poland. Political short-sightedness, bordering on the inadequacy of many Polish political figures of those years, including those now recognized as national heroes of Poland, also played a role. In conditions when only peace and good relations with neighbors gave at least some hope for the continued existence of the Polish state, they went to confrontation for any reason and began hostilities in the most adverse conditions for them.

On the other hand, the brutal oppression of Orthodox Christians, Uniates, Protestants, Jews and Muslims (who also lived in the territory of this country) declared by people of the "second grade" led to the fact that the outskirts simply did not want to be Polish provinces anymore.

A. Starovolsky, who lived in the XVII century, argued:

“In the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there is nothing but wild slavery, which has given human life to the full power of his lord. Any Asian despot will not torture as many people in his life as he will be tortured in one year in the free Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. ”

Finally, the principle of the “golden liberty”, “Henrykus articles” (a document signed by Heinrich Valois, who also managed to visit the Polish throne), liberum veto, adopted in 1589, which allowed any nobleman to stop the Sejm, and the right to “rokoshi” - creation Confederations waging an armed struggle against the king, in fact, made the central government incapable.

It was impossible to save their state in such conditions. But the Poles have traditionally blamed and blame the neighbors for all the troubles, primarily Russia. These claims against Russia seem especially strange when you consider that during the partition of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the XNUMXth century, primordially Polish lands were transferred to Prussia and Austria-Hungary, while Russia received areas where the vast majority of the population was Ukrainian, Belarusian, Lithuanian and even of Russian origin.


Polish state in 1794


One of the episodes of the "national liberation struggle", perhaps the most destructive for Polish statehood (but it is traditionally proud in Poland), was the military campaign of 1794. It entered the history of Poland as Insurekcja warszawska (Warsaw Uprising). On marble slabs near the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Warsaw, two episodes of this inglorious war for Poland are mentioned as “great victories” along with the capture of Moscow in 1610 and Berlin in 1945 (yes, without the Poles, the Soviet Army, of course, would have been in Berlin failed), and the "victory at Borodino" in 1812.


Marble slabs at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, Warsaw

They tried not to recall politically correct events in the USSR. Meanwhile, in Russian historiography, the central event of the uprising of 1794 was called the "Warsaw Matins" and the "Warsaw Massacre" - and these official terms say a lot.

The fact is that since 1792, foreign military garrisons were deployed in large cities in Poland. Since they stood there with the consent of the Polish government and King Stanislav Poniatowski, these troops could not be called occupying. Otherwise, for the same reason, we can now call the American troops occupying in modern Poland. The commanders of foreign units did not interfere in the internal affairs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, but the very presence of foreign soldiers caused strong irritation in Poland.

Russian troops in Poland were then led by Lieutenant General Baron Osip Igelstrom. In love with the Polish Countess Honorata Zalusskaya, he paid little attention to "gossip" about the upcoming anti-Russian speech.

On the other hand, Catherine II did not attach any importance to reports of the troubled situation in Poland. The empress hoped for the loyalty of her former lover - King Stanislav Ponyatovsky. Thus, the responsibility for the tragedy in Warsaw and Vilna lies with her shoulders.

Tadeusz Kosciuszko, a native of a rather poor Lithuanian family, whom schoolmates from Warsaw Knight School (studied from 1765 to 1769) was nicknamed “Swede”, was elected the leader of the new rebellion (recall that the king and the Polish government did not declare war on anyone). By this time, Kosciuszko had the U.S. Independence War, in which he fought on the side of the rebellious colonists (and rose to the rank of brigadier general) and military operations against Russia in 1792.

On March 12 (according to the Julian calendar) the Polish Brigadier General A. Madalinsky, who, according to the decision of the Grodno Seim, was to disband his brigade, instead crossed the Prussian border and seized the warehouses and treasury of the Prussian army in the city of Soldau. After this act of robbery, he went to Krakow, which was surrendered to the rebels without a fight. Here Kosciuszko March 16, 1794 was proclaimed the "dictator of the Republic." He arrived in the city only a week later - on March 23, announced the “Act of Rebellion” on the market square and received the title of Generalissimo.


Francis Smuglevich. Oath of Tadeusz Kosciuszko in the Cracow market. National Museum, Poznan. The painting was painted in 1797

The size of Kosciuszko’s army reached 70 thousand people, however, the armament of most of these fighters left much to be desired.


Mikhail Stakhovich. "Peasant militia of the Commonwealth ruin of 1794"

They were opposed by Russian troops numbering about 30 thousand people, about 20 thousand Austrians and 54 thousand Prussian soldiers.

Uprising in Warsaw and Vilna


On March 24 (April 4 according to the Gregorian calendar), the Kosciuszko army near the village of Raclawice near Krakow defeated the Russian corps, led by Major General Denisov and Tormasov. This, in general, insignificant and not having strategic importance victory served as a signal for an uprising in Warsaw and some other large cities. In the Polish capital, the rebels were led by a member of the city magistrate, Jan Kilinsky, who, on his own behalf, promised the Poles the property of the Russians living in Warsaw, and priest Jozef Meyer.

The success of the rebels in Warsaw was greatly facilitated by the inadequate situations of the Russian command, which did not take any measures to prepare for a possible attack on its subordinates.

Meanwhile Igelstrom was well aware of the hostilities opened by Kosciuszko and his associates. Rumors of an impending march in Warsaw were known even to the rank and file and officers of the Russian garrison, and the Prussian command withdrew its troops outside the city in advance. But Igelstrom did not even give the order to strengthen the protection of the arsenal and armory warehouses. L. N. Engelhardt recalled:

“For several days it was rumored that the night before, up to 50000 rounds of ammunition had been thrown out of the arsenal into the window for the mobile.”

And F.V. Bulgarin claimed:

“The Poles, who were in Warsaw during the riot, say that if the Russian detachment was concentrated, they had all their artillery with them, and if the arsenal and the powder magazine were in the hands of the Russians, which was very easy, then the uprising would be pacified under its very beginning. "

But, again, the Russian command, headed by Igelstrom, did not even take the slightest precaution, and on April 6 (17), 1794 (Maundy Thursday of Easter Week), the ringing of bells informed the townspeople about the beginning of the rebellion. As Kostomarov later wrote:

“The conspirators broke into the arsenal and took possession of it. Several shots were fired from the arsenal: this was a signal that the weapons were in the hands of the conspirators, and the crowd rushed there after them. Disassembled weapons, which one needed. "

As a result, many Russian soldiers and officers who came to the churches unarmed were immediately killed in churches. So, practically in full force, the 3rd battalion of the Kiev Grenadier Regiment was destroyed. Other Russian servicemen were killed in the houses where their apartments were located.

To quote Kostomarov once again:

“All over Warsaw there was a terrible noise, gunshots, the whistle of bullets, the frantic cry of those who kill:“ to the armor! Beat Muscovite! Whoever believes in God, beat Moskal! They broke into the apartments where the Russians were placed and beat the latter; there was no descent to the officers, soldiers or servants ... The soldiers of the third battalion of the Kiev regiment communed that day, they gathered somewhere in a church arranged in the palace. There were five hundred of them. According to Pistor, everyone in the church was cut off unarmed. ”

The Russian writer (and Decembrist) Alexander Bestuzhev-Marlinsky in his essay “An Evening on the Caucasian Waters in 1824”, referring to the story of a certain artilleryman, a participant in those events, writes:

“Thousands of Russians were then slaughtered, sleepy and unarmed, in houses that they thought were friendly. Captured by surprise, absent-mindedly, some in bedding, others in gatherings for the holiday, others on the way to the churches, they could neither defend themselves nor run and fell under inglorious blows, cursing the fate that they die without revenge. Some, however, managed to grab the guns and, locked in rooms, in barns, in attics, fired frantically; very rare managed to escape. ”


Juliusz Kossak. Warsaw Uprising April 17-18, 1794

In the picture above, “noble insurgents” are selflessly and openly fighting against armed “invaders”. Meanwhile, N. Kostomarov described what is happening:

“The Poles rushed in everywhere where they only suspected that there were Russians ... they searched and killed those who were found. They killed not only Russians. It was enough to point out anyone in the crowd and shout that he was of a Moscow spirit, the crowd dealt with him, as well as with the Russian. ”

All this is very reminiscent of the events of Bartholomew’s Night in Paris on August 24, 1572, is not it?

It is estimated that in the first day 2265 Russian soldiers and officers were killed, 122 wounded, 161 officers and 1764 soldiers who were unarmed were captured in churches. Many of these soldiers were later killed, already in prisons.
Got to civilians. Among others, the future nanny of Emperor Nicholas I Evgeny Vecheslov was in Warsaw. She recalled:

“When we went outside, we were struck by a terrible picture: the dirty streets were cluttered with dead bodies, the riotous crowds of Poles shouted:“ Cut Muscovites! ”
One major of Polish artillery managed to take Mrs. Chicherina to the arsenal; and I, having two children in my arms, showered with a hail of bullets and shell-shocked in my leg, fell unconsciously into the ditch with the children, on dead bodies. ”

Then Vecheslov was also taken to the arsenal:

“Here we spent two weeks with almost no food and no warm clothes at all. So we met the Bright Resurrection of Christ and talked with breadcrumbs, which were found near the dead bodies. "

Other "prisoners of war" were the pregnant Praskovya Gagarina and her five children. The husband of this woman, the general of the Russian army, like many other officers, was killed by the Poles in the street. In a letter, the widow personally addressed Tadeusz Kosciuszko, who would later be called the “last knight of Europe” in Poland, and, referring to her pregnancy and distress, asked to let her go to Russia, but received a categorical refusal.

The commander of the Russian troops, General Igelstrom, fled from Warsaw under the guise of the servant of his mistress - Countess Zalusskaya, leaving a lot of papers in his house. These documents were captured by the rebels and served as a pretext for reprisal with all the Poles mentioned in them. Catherine II, who also did not pay attention to the information about the impending rebellion coming to her, feeling guilty, later refused to bring the unlucky general to court, limiting herself to his resignation. According to numerous rumors, she expressed her contempt for the Poles who showed such treachery, making the throne of this country the seat of her "night vessel." It was on him that she allegedly had an attack that caused death.

Some soldiers of the Russian garrison still managed to break out of Warsaw. Already quoted by L. N. Engelhardt testifies:

“There are no more than four hundred people left of our troops, and with them four field guns. And so they decided to break through. "The cannons ahead cleared our way, and the rear two cannons covered the retreat, but at every step they had to withstand strong cannon and rifle fire, especially from the houses, and so we connected with the Prussian troops."

And on the night of April 23, rebels attacked the Russians in Vilna: due to the surprise of the attack, 50 officers were captured, including the commandant of the garrison, Major General Arseniev, and about 600 soldiers. Major N. A. Tuchkov gathered the escaped soldiers, and took this detachment to Grodno.

Tadeusz Kosciuszko completely massacred the massacre of unarmed Russian soldiers and defenseless civilians in Warsaw and Vilna. Jan Kilinsky from Warsaw (who personally killed two Russian officers and a Cossack during matins) received the rank of colonel from him, and Yakub Yasinsky from Vilno even the rank of lieutenant general.

These are the victories that the modern Poles considered worthy of perpetuation on the marble slabs of the memorial of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

But the subsequent actions of the Russian troops that came to Warsaw were considered by the Poles a monstrous crime.

Further events, which are traditionally called the Prague Massacre in Poland, will be described in the next article.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 15 July 2020 05: 37 New
    +6
    Further events, which are traditionally called the Prague Massacre in Poland, will be described in the next article.
    There, in those days, many abominations were happening ... "Uman massacre" of 1768, for example. And each side has its own arguments, only people cannot be returned.
    1. Finches
      Finches 15 July 2020 06: 38 New
      +5
      If the Pole does not spoil the Russian, then his life has been wasted ... The eternal motto of Poland, exported by them and constantly cultivated, in Ukraine! But for some reason in Belarus, this number does not go off with a bang ... Paradox! Ukrainians, Belarusians and Russians are one people, but different blood!
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 15 July 2020 07: 43 New
      +5
      "Umanska massacre '" did not hear about it. It will be necessary to fill the gap.
      Often speaking, my youth was ironic about the words: "live a century, learn a century." Youthful arrogance.
  2. Basil50
    Basil50 15 July 2020 05: 43 New
    15
    All these rebellions were very well paid. About how the RUSSIAN Poles were cut out, they still remember with enthusiasm and tenderness and take the pose of grief-sorrow when weeping * about the fate of Poland *. By the way, even in this historical excursion about the fact that they slaughtered all RUSSIANs, except for the nobles who were held hostage and as * an exchange fund * if they themselves were captured.
    Do not think that such an attitude of the Poles only to RUSSIAN people. They in Austria-Germany tried to do something similar, only there they immediately began to cut out without exception.
    By the way, and during WWII, the Poles massacred the rear services and hospitals located in Warsaw. Literally on the eve of grief, the Nazis were served in cafe-restaurants-brothels and suddenly they began to cut out vacationers in this rear paradise.
    An amazing mimicry of the Polish people was in Silesia. Until 1939 they were proud that they were Poles, by the end of 1939 they were already proud that they were Germans, after 1945 they again became proud of their Polishness by robbing and killing Germans.
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 15 July 2020 08: 30 New
      -2
      "suddenly began to cut out the vacationers in this rear paradise" not only the "vacationers", but also the service staff. If in 1794 it is enough to "indicate that he is of the Moscow spirit." It was exactly the same in Warsaw, but it was only necessary to scream: “he is of Swabian spirit” ...
      This is common to all nations. Psychologists have described it well and a lot of examples
    2. Basil50
      Basil50 15 July 2020 13: 19 New
      13
      Well, here's a comment and with outright lies. How not ashamed?
      For centuries, the Poles have cut out all the priests who will point out and special justifications were not required.
      After 1918, all RUSSIAN people were destroyed in Poland, regardless of origin. From 1918 until 1939, the Poles assimilated the border-Belarusians (how many people were destroyed even today, only approximate figures). In a brief period of 1939, the Germans began to be destroyed. Do you think that the Polish government was so frightened by the threats of Goebels? From 1939 until 1947, Poles massacred Jews.
      That's what everyone in Europe did.
      But in RUSSIA did not cut out foreigners. Even the Tatars in the Crimea were not cut. Today, the peoples of the Caucasus are not slaughtered, although they tried to grow hatred for themselves with their bestiality.
      So do not lie about * all *.
      1. VIP
        VIP 15 July 2020 16: 02 New
        +3
        Perhaps female emotions again, but a similar thing happened in Paris "Varfalameev’s night, in Asia, Africa
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild 15 July 2020 21: 32 New
        -2
        Basil, and about the Union of Michael the Archangel was not heard. There were priests there too?
        Plague riot in Moscow ,?
        1. Basil50
          Basil50 16 July 2020 08: 09 New
          -1
          Do not confuse the church with the people.
          In the * union of the archangel * priests and monks commanded. This * union * itself existed with the money of the synod.
          It’s a pity that they are afraid to dig up the real history of RUSSIA - the RUSSIAN EMPIRE and how exactly the church purposefully spoiled both the state and RUSSIAN PEOPLE.
          And continues to crap. But even in a church on the territory of RUSSIA there is almost a complete * international *.
          1. Vasily Andreev
            Vasily Andreev 22 August 2020 11: 03 New
            0
            Enough of spreading Russophobic myths - the Union of Michael the Archangel has nothing to do with pogroms. It was generally created later.
        2. Ruudi 34
          Ruudi 34 12 August 2020 19: 30 New
          -2
          And no one gives a shit .... say "Pole" on the Internet and that's it ... an explosion of leavened-patriotic diarrhea is guaranteed. No self-criticism, no impartiality ... throw mud at other people and grab the huskies. And we are "holy people" -do not touch .. for this is "holy" ..)))) It smells only of this "holiness" of sermyag and tar.
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 15 July 2020 06: 59 New
    11
    From their very roots are dishonest people. And during the Holocaust, Poles held a lot of Jewish blood.
    Somehow their “ambition” (honor, in Polish) is combined with atrocities in relation to anyone - by the way, and to the Poles who do not agree with them ... a Jesuit kind of perversion of thinking ...
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 15 July 2020 07: 20 New
    10
    The events of this day are little known in our country, attention has never been focused on them, especially in Soviet times
    The emphasis was, but on the other: this animal, the cutter Kosciuszko ... glorifiedas a hero of a liberation uprising against the Russian "invaders."

    Moreover, a division named after .... Kosciuszko was created in the Soviet leadership.
    It doesn’t matter that he slaughtered the Russians, the main thing is that he fought against tsarism.

    Although it is Russia kept the Polish state, creating the Kingdom of Poland with all the attributes of the state and with the capital in Warsaw, taking it from Prussia in 1815, in which the Poles (as in Austria) underwent rapid assimilation.


    the Russian command, led by Igelstrom, did not even take the slightest precaution

    neglect of their direct duties almost always leads to tragedies, an uprising has already passed, information has already existed, and such a striking carelessness ....
    On marble slabs near the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Warsaw, two episodes of this inglorious war for Poland are mentioned among the “great victories” along with the capture of Moscow in 1610 and Berlin in 1945 (yes, without the Poles the Soviet Army, of course, would have been in Berlin failed), and the "victory at Borodino" in 1812 ...

    There were Poles in the Great Army already ... less than 20%, near Berlin 1945, even less, but ambition, ambition .... lol

    The failed empire left a wounded pride, an inferiority complex and .... indefatigable unreasonable bragging
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 15 July 2020 12: 22 New
      -7
      So it is possible to flaunt as much as you like, but Poland was occupied with which many Poles did not agree, so they rebelled
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 July 2020 20: 14 New
        +6
        Quote: Kronos
        but Poland was occupied with which many Poles did not agree, so they rebelled

        1.Our troops were there
        with the consent of the Government of Poland and King Stanislav Poniatowski, these troops could not be called occupational.

        Have you read the article?

        2. OUR lands, actually Polish — to Austria and Prussia — also came to us.

        4. Warsaw came to us in 1815 on the basis of the decision of the victorious powers: for example, that Poland had pinned us in 1812 with Napoleon, done the wrong thing and AGAIN was rolled up in the dung.
        1. Red Dragon
          Red Dragon 16 July 2020 18: 39 New
          -5
          And Vilnius and Kaunas, which were transferred to the Russian Empire, is this also your land? wink The occupiers divided Poland into three, the Poles and Lithuanians should love the invaders. Funny laughing
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 16 July 2020 21: 36 New
            0
            Quote: Red Dragon
            Vilnius and Kaunas who have departed to the Russian Empire, is this also your land?

            Which, in u, is "Vilnius? fool

            It was the Polish Vilna, the center of the war against Russia of 1794 cm. article. For which it became the Russian Vilna
            1. Red Dragon
              Red Dragon 16 July 2020 21: 55 New
              -6
              That is, on the part of the Poles, participation in the war on the side of Napoleon was not "pinned down on us", but an attempt to liberate Polish from the Russian invaders, according to you, Vilno, as Warsaw and other Polish cities had already been liberated from the Prussian and Austrian invaders. Yes, they lost the war, but not always the war of liberation ends in victory over the invaders. wink
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 17 July 2020 07: 20 New
                +1
                Quote: Red Dragon
                That is, on the part of the Poles, participation in the war on the side of Napoleon was not "pressed against us," but an attempt to free the Polish, according to you, Vilno from the Russian occupiers

                1.Once again: not Vilna, but Vilna

                2. Lithuanians consider it ... Lithuanian, not Polish.

                3. The French occupiers are sweeter, yes ...
                Quote: Red Dragon
                Yes, they lost the war, but the liberation war does not always end with a victory over the invaders.

                The mean and stupid attack on the unarmed Russians ended in the partition of Poland.

                And they could live in their independent Poland ...

                But stupidity played ...
                1. Red Dragon
                  Red Dragon 17 July 2020 07: 54 New
                  -7
                  The invaders must be destroyed. It doesn't matter if they are unarmed or not. The Russians in Poland and Vilna were occupiers in the 18th century. Like the Poles in Moscow in the 17th century. The Russians managed to drive out the invaders, the Poles did not. But this does not mean that there is no need to try and that this is stupidity. wink
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 17 July 2020 09: 12 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Red Dragon
                    The Russians in Poland and Vilna were occupiers in the 18th century.

                    No, everything was with the CONSENT of the top leadership of Poland, NEDEZHA.
                    Quote: Red Dragon
                    The invaders must be destroyed. It doesn't matter if they are unarmed or not

                    So they got for the destruction of unarmed-section. Well, stupid ... lol
                    1. Red Dragon
                      Red Dragon 17 July 2020 09: 21 New
                      -6
                      Of course with consent, yeah. After the surrender of France in 1940 and the signing of the treaty, the Germans were in France, too, with the consent of the leadership. This does not change the fact that they were occupiers there. Likewise, the Russians in Poland at the end of the 18th century are the same occupiers. And the occupiers must be destroyed. wink
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 17 July 2020 09: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: Red Dragon
                        Of course with consent, yeah.

                        Exactly, hack it into your forehead.
                        Quote: Red Dragon
                        After the surrender of France in 1940 and the signing of the treaty, the Germans were in France, too, with the consent of the leadership.

                        Go to school and find out that France was at war with Germany, and Russia entered there at the invitation of the POLISH Targovitsa Confederation.

                        Got it, no?
                      2. Red Dragon
                        Red Dragon 17 July 2020 10: 11 New
                        -4
                        They gathered a bunch of traitors and began to support him. Clever of course, but even for the traitors to Poland from the Targowitz Confederation, the second partition of Poland in 1793 was a surprise. At the sight of Russian cannons, the Diet confirmed the second section, but this is not a war, everything is legitimate. laughing Let's remember Hitler's ultimatum to Gache in 1939, everything is also legitimate. And the Germans in the Czech Republic are not invaders. wink Pototsky, the founder of the Sofievsky Park, by the way, after his death received gratitude for his deeds, you probably know. After the second partition, the remnants of Poland are not even puppets, they are just a screen for the occupiers: Russians and Prussians. And of course the occupiers must be tolerated, it will be worse. The occupiers must understand the attitude of the occupied people towards them and take precautions. And if you don't, who is to blame for you?
  • Captivity
    Captivity 15 July 2020 07: 26 New
    0
    There are always 2 sides to the coin. I'm too old to believe such stories.
    I would not be surprised if the Psheks tell how they lived peacefully in the Kremlin at the invitation of False Dmitry. And some Russians suddenly and unexpectedly attacked the good unarmed soldiers of the Poles during prayers in churches. Naturally, the Poles were obliged to respond adequately.
    1. Red Dragon
      Red Dragon 15 July 2020 07: 37 New
      -11
      I absolutely agree with you. This, like ours, is a noble scout hero, and theirs is a vile spy saboteurwink
      1. Captivity
        Captivity 15 July 2020 07: 44 New
        -8
        Exactly. And funny
    2. Dym71
      Dym71 15 July 2020 12: 44 New
      +5
      Quote: Captivity
      I would not be surprised if the Psheks tell how they lived peacefully in the Kremlin at the invitation of False Dmitry. And some Russians suddenly and unexpectedly attacked the good unarmed soldiers of the Poles during prayers in churches.

      They don’t tell and it’s not difficult to check in the 21st century yes
      Weekly Universal - Catholic weekly of a socio-political profile, published since 1945 in Krakow.

      "Wielka awantura Pierwszej Rzeczypospolitej"
      Andrzej Brzhecki: When in 1603 a man appeared in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, posing as Dmitry - the son of Ivan the Terrible, few believed that this was the real heir to the throne, but it was decided to support him. The finale turned out to be tragic - 'Dmitry' died, and his Polish comrades were, if not killed, then taken prisoner. However, when another False Dmitry appeared in 1607, the Poles again sided with him, and soon the king himself joined in the intervention in Russia.

      Janusz Tazbir: Chancellor Jan Zamoysky, while condemning the first Dimitriad, called it the Plavt Comedy. About the pseudo-sons of Ivan the Terrible, appearing one after another, they said then: a fraudster and a thief. The Polish magnates who supported them knew that this was a dubious affair. Well, the appearance of the second False Dmitry was an intrigue sewn with very coarse threads. So it was clear that this was a diplomatic game in which 'Dmitry' serves only as a cover. But even several centuries later, the historian Sergei Platonov wrote that only an unreasonable state would not take this chance and intervene in the Russian mess.

      Original: www.tygodnikpowszechny.pl/wielka-awantura-pierwszej-rzeczypospolitej-138949
      translation: www.liveinternet.ru/users/929348/post58749928/
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 15 July 2020 07: 40 New
    +3
    Indeed, we were silent about these events, probably so that there were no uncomfortable questions
    Probably, the government decided that this was in the past and begin life from scratch.
    Perhaps it is reasonable to try to live anew, but the Poles thought differently.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 15 July 2020 12: 23 New
      -4
      In popular uprisings, the massacre usually begins.
  • apro
    apro 15 July 2020 08: 10 New
    +6
    By joining Poland, the Russian tsars ... what was their aim? To create a Russian province .... no, they retained all the attributes of Polish statehood. Having adopted the title of Polish tsar. Army. Officials. Education. Religion did not integrate into the Russian state. And the customs of Polish dvryas. ..so left without admonition.
    Buza was predetermined.
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 15 July 2020 18: 14 New
      +1
      The stupid happiness of the Poles is that Guillaume Norman was not found in them in history. Not otherwise, these evil catholicized "children of Slavs" are still kept by our common ancestors :)
  • Unknown
    Unknown 15 July 2020 08: 14 New
    +6
    Of course, imperial ambitions were present, but in Poland, then, that now there is a very strong influence of the Catholic Church, and this should not be discounted. the Catholic Church, always in Poland, fueled anti-Russian sentiment, and was sharply opposed to Orthodoxy, calling the Orthodox - schismatics. it was she who was at the origins of all this hatred of Russia, and the Russians. it was from the filing of RIMA that the whole story went that, only the oaths of Muscovites destroyed Great Poland. but Austria, also Catholic, is not mentioned at all in this hysteria. Also, like Prussia. as Pope Pavel-2 used to say, in worldly life, Carol Jozef Wojtyla ... a German takes a body from a Pole, and a Muscovite takes his soul ... so that the author needs to reveal in more detail the role of ROMA in this morning service.
  • Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 15 July 2020 08: 30 New
    -5
    Pole haters would like to recall the names of Rokosovsky, Dzerzhinsky, well, or Anna German, at least
    1. apro
      apro 15 July 2020 08: 46 New
      +5
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      Pole haters would like to recall the names of Rokosovsky, Dzerzhinsky, well, or Anna German, at least

      Let's start off with. that they were Soviet people and communists .. and Anna German is a great Soviet singer ..
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 15 July 2020 09: 25 New
        +6
        Soviet people did not have a nationality? Remind about the fifth column? Anna German is really a wonderful singer, but she was only on tour in the Soviet Union, she is a subject of Poland.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 15 July 2020 09: 51 New
          +5
          Count Count.
          But the perpetrators of the incident, on the Russian side, had to be punished in full ...
          Exchange the lives of their own soldiers for a woman ...
          And the empress herself could "sprinkle ash on her head" as she pleased!
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 15 July 2020 20: 54 New
            +3
            "Behind him he hears a murmur: exchanged us for a woman ..." (c)
            Yes, not Razin was the name of this general, alas ...
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 15 July 2020 23: 00 New
              +2
              During civil and interfaith fights, things happened and are happening much worse (by modern standards) -
              About 300 people died in a few days, thousands were taken hostage or fled from their homes. The Greek staff at Nicosia Central Hospital cut the throat of two dozen Turkish patients lying in it. As one of the journalists wrote, “as if in the Middle Ages each village was arming itself against another, fearing an attack”.

              Island on the way to war
              warspot.ru
              An article about the beginning of the "hot phase" of the Cyprus conflict!
              Medical workers were likened to the "craftsmen of Bartholomew’s Night"!
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 15 July 2020 23: 27 New
                +4
                Time passes, people do not change. How much is needed in order for a normal, seemingly, person to turn into a beast? The well-established technology of exterminating people in Nazi concentration camps immediately comes to mind, and this is a highly cultured European nation. request
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 15 July 2020 23: 34 New
                  +2
                  And only the "Russian barbarians" had long since not organized pogroms and massacres.
                  And only they themselves endured this during the collapse of the USSR ...
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 15 July 2020 23: 43 New
                    +3
                    I have such a nasty feeling that we are still ahead and nothing has ended. But here bloodshed and atrocities would not be desirable.
                    1. hohol95
                      hohol95 16 July 2020 08: 18 New
                      +1
                      But here bloodshed and atrocities would not be desirable.

                      I fully agree! Peace - Peace!
        2. apro
          apro 15 July 2020 10: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Remind about the fifth column?

          And what does it change? Did they act in the interests of the Poles?
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 15 July 2020 10: 26 New
            -1
            Quote: apro
            And what does it change? Did they act in the interests of the Poles?

            You this, that - Rokossovsky was the Minister of Defense of Poland, actually, the NDP was a friendly state for the USSR. Soviet history must be known
            1. apro
              apro 15 July 2020 10: 29 New
              +4
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              Soviet history must be known

              Here as they say ... he exposed himself ... KKRokosovsky always acted in the interests of the USSR.
              1. Stirbjorn
                Stirbjorn 15 July 2020 10: 42 New
                -2
                Quote: apro
                Here as they say ... he exposed himself ... KKRokosovsky always acted in the interests of the USSR.

                So the Poles, from the time of the NDP, acted in the interests of the USSR and the entire socialist camp, and vice versa
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 15 July 2020 15: 57 New
                  +4
                  So the Poles, from the time of the NDP, acted in the interests of the USSR and the entire socialist camp, and vice versa

                  By 1981, government debt was $ 27 billion.
                  Is it they who have worked so much with the USSR?
                  And this USSR demanded to repay debts?
                2. hohol95
                  hohol95 15 July 2020 16: 06 New
                  +2
                  Lessons from “shock therapy”: how Poland has endured and become an Eastern European economic “tiger”
                  10 June 2020 in 8: 00
                  Posted by: darriuss. Photo: fotopolska.eu, tygodnik.pl, Maxim Malinovsky, Onliner archive
                  The amount of loans for the peak crisis years 1980–81 was estimated at $ 2 billion. Moreover, the Soviet Union even supplied food products to Poland, taking them from their own stores. For example, in October 1981, at a meeting of the Politburo, it was decided to supply 30 thousand tons of meat from food reserves.
                  At the same time, these Warsaw demands were irritating in Moscow. Operational data from the NDP indicated that the products are in abundance, just in the markets and in private shops, and not in state stores. There was also information about Poland's re-export of cheap Soviet oil to capstrana at a completely different price. Common emotions about the behavior of the Western “brothers” can be formulated by the Brezhnev phrase “Jaruzelsky leads us by the nose”, which was once irritably thrown in a different situation. On the other hand, the USSR had no choice. The program “Oil, cotton, ore, products in exchange for kisses” (that is, to preserve the NDP as a satellite and a member of the Warsaw Treaty Organization) worked for some time, which allowed delaying the inevitable end of Polish socialism for several years. At the expense of Soviet citizens.
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 15 July 2020 20: 56 New
            +2
            Changes nothing. The bear with Borka were Russian and Soviet communists, so what?
            1. apro
              apro 15 July 2020 23: 24 New
              +2
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Changes nothing. The bear with Borka were Russian and Soviet communists, so what?

              Russian for sure ... but the Communists have not been. Judge for matters
    2. Alexander Trebuntsev
      Alexander Trebuntsev 15 July 2020 09: 29 New
      +8
      Anna Herman was not Polish. A Jewess of Soviet descent who ended up in Poland as a teenager when her mother married a Pole. She was not loved in Poland. Sang in Russian and for dislike it was already enough
      1. AK1972
        AK1972 15 July 2020 13: 15 New
        +7
        Quote: Alexander Trebutsev
        Jewish woman of Soviet descent who ended up in Poland as a teenager

        As far as I know, Anna German is a descendant of impoverished Dutch noblemen, and also sectarians who were religiously persecuted and emigrated to Russia. In Soviet times, they lived in Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. After the death of the repressed father, Anna Herman's mother married an officer of the division to them. T. Kosciuszko, which allowed the family to go to Poland and obtain citizenship. Thus, Anna Herman had neither Jewish nor Polish blood.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 15 July 2020 13: 41 New
          +9
          Quite right - Dutch and German blood. Born in Uzbekistan, lived in Poland, while she sang, in short - Jewish fellow
          1. Dym71
            Dym71 15 July 2020 14: 45 New
            +3
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Born in Uzbekistan, lived in Poland, while she sang, in short - Jewish

            It smacks of anti-Semitism (s)

            Greetings! hi
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 July 2020 14: 58 New
              +4
              Greetings! hi
              How cute (s) - Anna German fellow
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 15 July 2020 15: 48 New
                +3
                Quote: Krasnodar
                How cute (s) - Anna German

                Edita. That's just Edita. Peha. bully
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 15 July 2020 16: 21 New
                  +3
                  Felix. Not just Felix, but Iron. Not the Chronicles of Amber, but Dzerzhinsky! soldier
                2. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 15 July 2020 21: 22 New
                  0
                  Actually, Edita Pieha was born in France.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 15 July 2020 23: 31 New
        +2
        The fact that she is Jewish, I know. As for the rest, I don’t know, other Poles toured with us and also sang in Russian. But if German from Russia, and even a Jewess, I completely admit that a certain part of the Poles did not like her, their anti-Semitism and Russophobia have long been known to everyone.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Vasily Andreev
      Vasily Andreev 22 August 2020 11: 10 New
      0
      Dzerzhinsky you can take back
  • Galleon
    Galleon 15 July 2020 09: 51 New
    12
    The Warsaw massacre in its essence is not much different from what the Poles did in 1945. over the German population of those parts of eastern Prussia (Pomerania) that left Poland following the results of the Yalta and Potsdam Conference. Scoundrels, in a word. 2 centuries have passed, and the cowardly fury under the guise of decency is the same.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 15 July 2020 09: 59 New
    10
    Political short-sightedness, bordering on the inadequacy of many Polish political figures of those years, including those now recognized as the national heroes of Poland, also played a role.

    apparently, little has changed.
    On marble slabs near the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Warsaw, two episodes of this inglorious war for Poland are mentioned among the “great victories” along with the capture of Moscow in 1610 and Berlin in 1945 (yes, without the Poles the Soviet Army, of course, would have been in Berlin failed), and the "victory at Borodino" in 1812.

    some kind of surrealism in half with ambition. Let them then write another escape from Sobibor, when the locals willingly handed over the Jews to the Germans. no
    Tadeusz Kosciuszko massacre of unarmed Russian soldiers and defenseless civilians in Warsaw and Vilna fully approved.

    Nevertheless, Pal Petrovich was too noble towards the clairvoyant. He freed, gifted, gave leave, etc. Apparently, it was done on emotions, in spite of the late mother. Kosciuszko left Russia .. and soon refused all promises to Pavel!
    Here Paul visits him:

    Between us, I don’t understand at all why it was necessary to call the streets in the USSR by the name of this figure ... negative
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 15 July 2020 10: 15 New
      +4
      Quote: Pan Kohanku
      Between us, I don’t understand at all why it was necessary to call the streets in the USSR by the name of this figure ..

      Fought against the damned tsarism?
      Fought!

      And what Russian was cutting at the same time and ruined Russia, "little things" ...
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 15 July 2020 10: 29 New
        12
        And what Russian was cutting at the same time and ruined Russia, "little things" ...

        exactly what. Our streets in the south of St. Petersburg bear the names of various "brother countries" - Belgrade, Prague, Warsaw, etc. There is also Kosciuszko Street.
        Somewhere in America they call the streets by the name of Batista, or what other allies did they have there? But our allies have long spit on us. As Marshal Grechko said: "In the event of war, you can only hope for the GDR. The rest will immediately surrender." negative
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild 15 July 2020 21: 16 New
          +1
          Nikolai "Kohanku", actually like I’m s5 (on a box, from people who went abroad), Russians are well treated: Slovaks, Bulgarians, Serbs ..
          Familiar in 1988-90 was a trucker and traveled to Yugoslavia, and was a tourist last summer. He told me that Zagribe had robbed him and blamed himself, but some Bulgarians stood up. He swore that in 1989 they cut a tire there so that he would go into tire service, but this time they wanted to get a thief
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 09: 29 New
            +2
            Nikolai "Kohanku", actually like I’m s5 (on a box, from people who went abroad), Russians are well treated: Slovaks, Bulgarians, Serbs ..

            Vera, I treat them well too. love So I would take and hug each. And cried with tears of the Slavic superethnos ... crying And the countries in which they live are allies to us? Do we have much from them? Besides sticks in wheels? negative
      2. Kronos
        Kronos 15 July 2020 12: 25 New
        -6
        Well, and the Russian Poles were slaughtered during the capture and suppression of the uprisings, everything was mutually
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack 15 July 2020 12: 58 New
          10
          Wow "mutually." Yeah, the aggressor and the victim are "mutual"?

          Historical reasons were that Poland, using the Mongol pogrom and domination, was the first to capture, along with Lithuania, the weakened Russian principalities.
          So who was the first to attack? Who was the first to capture whose capital? At first, it was not the Russians who occupied Krakow, but the Poles - Kiev and Moscow.
          Whoever sows the wind will reap the storm. Sooner or later, the Russians began their reconquest.
          That ethnic Polish lands of Russia would not have to be annexed. Prussia and voila would palm them on ... let the Prussians have hemorrhoids and revolts. )))
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 15 July 2020 13: 26 New
            -1
            The usual policy was the Russians tried to capture the Poles, the Russians Poles. There are no right and wrong in history
            1. Yaik Cossack
              Yaik Cossack 15 July 2020 13: 33 New
              +8
              You simply do not know historical facts. Or specially distort. Ancient Russia did not try to subjugate Poland. There were wars, but there was no capture strategy. It was Poland and Lithuania that struck the Russians in the back and began the conquest of Russian lands. Where by deception, where by dynastic means, and where - by open capture. In addition, tolerance was initially promised, but then they deceived. So they waited for retribution.
              Polish-Lithuanian aggression is a fact. As well as the aggression of Nazi Germany. Of course, it is uncomfortable for today's Poles and their supporters to admit it. But you have to.
              1. Yaik Cossack
                Yaik Cossack 15 July 2020 13: 35 New
                +4
                Of course, the story is complex and not always unambiguous. But it still has moral criteria. And there are right and wrong. See materials from the Nuremberg and Tokyo Tribunals and get enlightened
                1. Yaik Cossack
                  Yaik Cossack 15 July 2020 13: 43 New
                  +4
                  You are expressing a specially distributed liberal thesis of moral relativism. Like, there are neither right nor guilty. And he was invented to justify specific acts. Moreover, the supporters of moral relativism themselves always leave ... for themselves many exceptions.
                  Like, when the Poles captured and oppressed the Russians - this was also a reflection of the civilizational mission of the West against the subhuman Russians. But when the Russians began to return their previously taken away and do the same in return with the Poles, the liberals immediately included a moral "pathos", turning into falsetto - how bad, viva Poland!
                  1. Kronos
                    Kronos 15 July 2020 13: 46 New
                    -2
                    No, I do not approve of the capture of the Polish lands by the Poles, nor the capture of the Russian Polish
                2. Kronos
                  Kronos 15 July 2020 13: 47 New
                  -3
                  It is about ancient history with the principle of historicism
                  1. Yaik Cossack
                    Yaik Cossack 15 July 2020 14: 53 New
                    +2
                    Historicism is like a dialectic. Shroedinger `s cat. All apply, but sometimes with diametrically opposite results laughing
              2. Kronos
                Kronos 15 July 2020 13: 50 New
                -3
                I am not a supporter of the Poles. The Russian feudal state expanded just like other states
              3. VIP
                VIP 15 July 2020 16: 17 New
                +1
                They are going to counter-demand or something else, but have money from Germany and Russia
              4. andrew42
                andrew42 15 July 2020 18: 08 New
                +4
                Poland since the days of Bag I fell ill with "Vaticanism of the brain," complicated by "Jesuit of conscience." This "fall into Catholicism" is strikingly different from its neighbors: the Germans have Lutheranism as a form of protest against the papacy, the Russians have double faith right up to the 19th century. No one has exchanged folk customs and ethnic value systems for a godly religion like the Poles. Such is the negative phenomene. To take the same medieval Poland from the time of the invitation of Jagiel - Catholic Poles against Catholic Catholics - this is generally insanity. Hedgehogs pricked, cried, but continued to eat a cactus.
                1. Kronos
                  Kronos 15 July 2020 19: 03 New
                  -1
                  Why nobody? Arabs and Turks converted to Islam and began their conquest
                  1. andrew42
                    andrew42 15 July 2020 19: 19 New
                    +2
                    You picked up a good company for the Poles. The most Polish neighbors, yeah. About the Bedouins of Arabia and the Seljuks kicked out from Central Asia in this context is not interesting. The first became a single ethnic group, the sermons of the Prophet went to their good. The latter generally rush with pan-Turkism, not pan-Islamism in any way, so this is not an option for comparison. But from the descendants of Skif - they have a different demand - the Poles have "Vatican-robotization", and therefore for centuries they haven’t been "working for themselves." It is not treated, it is a dead-end ethnogenesis. If it were not for the Younger (Russian Vanka), the Poles as a state-forming ethnos would end in the 19th century.
          2. Baron pardus
            Baron pardus 16 July 2020 00: 42 New
            +3
            Prussians - not Russian liberal nobles - liberalism of the brain is not affected. And the "original Polish culture" and other multiculturalism, they do not need nafig. They would Germanize, digest and not grimace. And be sure that everyone there would be outstretched Kosciuszko as rabid dogs, and would be right. Bismarck gave absolutely correct advice regarding the Poles. By the way, the Germans successfully Germanized their part of Poland. Russia, by the way, has always been characterized by excessive softness in relation to enemies.
        2. akarfoxhound
          akarfoxhound 15 July 2020 18: 46 New
          -2
          They cut the Poles from small to large, including women with children and until the pshek ended at that moment in that place, right? Are you not one of those who wears flowers and drops a tear on the graves of prisoners of war Germans and Italians?
        3. andrew42
          andrew42 15 July 2020 19: 35 New
          +4
          Well, then draw the picture "Russian grenadier REZHET palene freak" (Polish beauty). Maybe the pans will pay you. Although unlikely. What if Matthew of Paris is a tear up? - Also an option. In general, lying is ugly. Name at least one war where the Russian government troops REZALI someone, that is, they killed unarmed. Well, perhaps the Kievites of the Boleslavsky assistants to Svyatopolk - so it was a long time ago, not true, and the Poles themselves do not remember that :)
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 15 July 2020 19: 37 New
            -4
            For example, during the Great Northern War, Peter 1 personally stopped the robberies with a sword and the murder in a captured city is a well-known case.
            1. cradle
              cradle 16 July 2020 07: 21 New
              +1
              one? And who described him, by the way? Not from the Swedish chronicles?
          2. Red Dragon
            Red Dragon 15 July 2020 22: 14 New
            -4
            Russian saints, the rest are so-so. Something that reminds me. winked True ...
            1. andrew42
              andrew42 16 July 2020 15: 20 New
              +2
              No, not saints. But I'm talking about government troops at all times. I didn’t talk about Cossack expeditions. The Russian phenomenon is that they are beaten 10 times more violently during disassembly than others - Razinshchina and its suppression, Pugachevschina and its suppression, Civil War 1918-1921. But these are our, Russian affairs. The rest they do not concern. There are isolated cases of marauding in any army, but the Russian army differs by an order of magnitude (!) In this respect from the “civilized” European warriors and frankly wild Caucasian “Dzhigits” / Central Asian “Batyrs”. The massacre of unarmed, or laid down arms-this is not about Russia.
              1. Red Dragon
                Red Dragon 16 July 2020 16: 45 New
                -3
                Sure. Baturin massacre can be remembered. They killed both old and small. This is offhand. Of course, all are bad, Russia is good. laughing
            2. cradle
              cradle 17 July 2020 02: 50 New
              0
              More specifically, WHAT? Said A say B ...
      3. AK1972
        AK1972 15 July 2020 13: 20 New
        +4
        Fought against the damned tsarism?

        As in the old joke: The American Negro somewhere got hold of the Chapaev figurine and put the houses in the most prominent place. The wife asked - who is this? Answer: I don’t know for sure, but they say that he terribly hated whites.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 15 July 2020 13: 44 New
          +5
          Answer: I don’t know for sure, but they say that he terribly hated whites.

          Just yesterday we discussed, laughed. drinks If they re-shoot Chapaev in Hollywood, it will look like this:
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 July 2020 13: 52 New
    +7
    My deceased grandfather about Russian-Polish relations said the following:
    “Russians are a good people. In Germany, German children were fed from their rations, trying at the same time to get them different sweets such as chocolates, gingerbread cookies, good jam. The situation was different with the Poles - quiet hatred and contempt. This is despite the fact that the Russian people are not evil, mostly peasants. ”
    He served in intelligence, knew what he was talking about. He grinned when he saw Jaruzelsky on TV. .
    1. Red Dragon
      Red Dragon 15 July 2020 21: 43 New
      -4
      Right. Russians are good, Germans are mostly so-so, Poles are bad. You have Jewish roots, doesn’t resemble anything? Aloizych, too, whole nations proclaimed bad? belay
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 July 2020 23: 07 New
        +2
        Did I say at least one bad word about the Poles? laughing And by the way, with my Jewish roots, I lived in Germany, and I can say that I liked the Germans. I met Poles a couple of times in my life - people, like people.
        1. Red Dragon
          Red Dragon 16 July 2020 00: 03 New
          -1
          So it seemed sorry sorry misunderstood. I just hate nationalism: neither Russian, nor German, Ukrainian, Jewish - no. wink
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 16 July 2020 00: 14 New
            +2
            Right. Nationalism is the pride of losers!
          2. Astra wild
            Astra wild 16 July 2020 10: 25 New
            -1
            Nationalism and cheap patriotism are a lack of mind.
        2. cradle
          cradle 16 July 2020 07: 24 New
          +1
          and how much I met, fu, what a nasty thing!
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 16 July 2020 08: 19 New
            +2
            Yes, everyone is different - like the others)) I had two friends who worked with them in the 90s, were happy with everything, my grandfather was skeptical of them (in the sense they are not friends to us - and this is with the Union), I talked briefly - there are half-crazy bulls, there are funny, normal people
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 16 July 2020 08: 25 New
              +2
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Yes, everyone is different - like the rest

              Plus! For everything !!!! laughing laughing
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 July 2020 08: 29 New
                +1
                And immediately laughing
                The only hassle I had with one guy priest on guard of the visit of the Pope to Israel was trying to get into the cordon, pushing, etc. But there are a lot of crazy people at such events.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 16 July 2020 08: 34 New
                  +2
                  Alka, friend, you are a phenomenon! I love it! Humor is beyond borders !!! laughing
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 16 July 2020 08: 58 New
                    +3
                    In Moscow, thank God, there are no such streets!
                2. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 09: 32 New
                  +2
                  with one priest guy on guard of the visit of the Pope to Israel - tried to get into the cordon, pushed, etc.

                  what a scandalous "holy father" you came across, however! laughing
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 July 2020 09: 37 New
                    +2
                    Yes, Io Pole said that Papa Pole)) So he mounted his request to let him pass to the Pope’s car
                    If I quote that I answered him, they will attract me for relieving the feelings of believers lol
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 09: 41 New
                      +2
                      Yes, Io Pole said that Papa Pole

                      straight Polish-Catholic kunatchestvo! laughing
                      If I quote that I answered him

                      about tukhes and related? Do not answer. drinks
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 July 2020 09: 42 New
                        +2
                        No, about who I am and whose viceroy dad on Earth laughing
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 09: 50 New
                        +2
                        No, about who I am and whose viceroy dad on Earth

                        the one with the gun is right! laughing
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 July 2020 09: 53 New
                        +1
                        We were unarmed - part-time job in the army
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 10: 13 New
                        +2
                        We were unarmed - part-time job in the army

                        yeah, I also worked part-time in security at night. For the salaries were ridiculous.
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 July 2020 10: 20 New
                        +1
                        I also accompanied excursions as a military paramedic))) once every two weeks
            2. Astra wild
              Astra wild 16 July 2020 10: 29 New
              +1
              Probably something semi decent. He bounced off you like a plague?
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 July 2020 10: 31 New
                +2
                Not. Continued his analogy about nationality. When I didn’t let him in, I threw myself with my fists - I just pushed him away, after which they quickly approached him and took him away
              2. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 10: 37 New
                +2
                When I didn’t let him in, I threw myself with my fists - I just pushed him away, after which they quickly approached him and took him away

                Wikipedia reports (with reference to the Poles) that Tsar Peter did similar, but more epic, in Polotsk. True, maybe the Poles lied?
                He bounced off you like a plague?

                as from a Gentile laughing
              3. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 July 2020 10: 42 New
                +1
                Did he also protect the Pope from Polish priests? )))
              4. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 11: 03 New
                +4
                Did he also protect the Pope from Polish priests?

                no, the Poles say they killed four personally. Rude began, and the king was not in the spirit ... no
                According to the Polish historian of the 4th century, Franciszek Duchinsky, Peter invaded the Uniate Cathedral, where the relics of Josaphat Kuntsevich were stored, drunk and with soldiers. The king demanded the keys to the royal gates, and when the Basilians refused to give them, he personally killed the abbot and four Basilian monks, and ordered the bodies to be drowned in the Dvina [1705]. This event is briefly reported by the Vitebsk Chronicle: Eodem anno [11], mense Iulli 4 die in ecclesia S. Sofiae ipse occidit 1705 basilianos in Polocia (“In the same [11] of the month of July 4 days [Tsar himself] Peter I] killed 5 basilians in Polotsk ”[XNUMX]).
                According to another version, the conflict occurred after the monks replied to the king’s question about the icon on the icon that it was Saint Jehoshaphat killed by heretics [6]. The king ordered the monks to be arrested, but they resisted, resulting in a clash in which they were killed. The documents of the Cabinet of Peter I, stored in the RGADA, report that "the incident in Polotsk was a spontaneous manifestation of the king’s anger provoked by the impudent behavior of the Uniate monks" [7].
              5. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 July 2020 12: 08 New
                +1
                Horror laughing No, I'm far from Peter
              6. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 12: 11 New
                +2
                Horror. No, I'm far from Peter

                all you have to do is become a king, and you can beat the impudent priests as much as you like! request They want to see the Pope there, or they will deign to be rude to the Tsar ... If he were a good man, but there would be a reason. laughing
              7. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 July 2020 12: 15 New
                +1
                I won't get away with my dual citizenship laughing
              8. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 12: 17 New
                +2
                I won't get away with my dual citizenship

                Then become the king of the world. Like Andrey Ponkratov. By the way, awesome host on "My Planet" drinks
              9. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 July 2020 12: 30 New
                +1
                No, I'd rather become a house manager))
              10. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 12: 44 New
                +2
                No, I'd rather become a house manager

                Border guards haven't taken away the Order of the Golden Calf? wink
              11. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 July 2020 12: 47 New
                +1
                No, he will pay off with a silver tray with a portrait of Ceausescu))
              12. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 16 July 2020 13: 05 New
                +3
                No, he will pay off with a silver tray with a portrait of Ceausescu))

                Cries were heard: "Branzuletka!" laughing
                - Branzuletka! Yelled a border officer in a short coat with a dog collar and large metal buttons on a bulging bottom.
                - Branzuletka! The others shouted, rushing at Ostap.
              13. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 July 2020 13: 15 New
                +1
                And I answered them:
                - Eun gradine lui Ion laughing
  • cradle
    cradle 17 July 2020 04: 07 New
    +2
    Well, another version is more plausible that the king didn’t personally beat the Uniates, and they resisted the execution of the king’s relatives by the tsar’s decree ... I doubt that the king was willing to get dirty, even when drunk (if he was). This is not a royal affair.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 17 July 2020 11: 52 New
    +2
    I doubt that the king wanted to get dirty, even when drunk (if he was). This is not a royal affair.

    Yuri, I'll add. This is not a priest's business - to be rude to the king! drinks well, you shouldn't have behaved like that ...
  • cradle
    cradle 17 July 2020 02: 53 New
    +1
    and what do believers have to do with priests? So write what you think ... is this true?
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 17 July 2020 03: 38 New
      +2
      This will offend all Christians.
    2. cradle
      cradle 17 July 2020 03: 59 New
      +2
      There are plenty of fools everywhere, but one cannot judge by isolated cases. Moreover, the priest could have a roof go for some reason, it happens. request
  • georgiigennadievitch
    georgiigennadievitch 16 July 2020 12: 59 New
    +2
    Eh dear ... Where and when the domestic and foreign policy was determined by the common people? The ruling indigenous elite. And only in their own interests. Whether we like it or not, everything was and is exactly the same. Without this, all the talk about what kind of people good or bad, idle speculation and utter stupidity. And as for Russian-Polish relations, a certain inferiority complex and provincialism of the Polish elite played and plays a big role here. Hence the desire of the current ruling PiS to rewrite history. They understand that the future grows from the past through the present. So, they think, if you try to change the past (replace NOW the real history with half-truths and invented fables), then a different FUTURE is possible. (Poland is not the outskirts, but the center of Europe, from can to can, etc.) but they do not succeed and will not succeed. Much more powerful neighbors (Russia, Germany) and history are interpreted differently and will not allow Poland to go beyond the already designated political, economic and geographic historical realities, and the states are only interested in them as a platform for confrontation with Russia and partly with Germany. In addition, the declining states have so many "smut" in the world to spend significant funds and resources for the rise of the Poles.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 16 July 2020 17: 37 New
    +1
    There are no complaints against the Polish peasantry. Workers are good everywhere. The elite are usually smoking. But it is precisely the elites who determine the ideology of the state, with which the lower-level layers are forced to live. And here the Polish panism jumped over the Russian nobility, and far away. Wild and thoughtless clinical Russophobia from the 16th century are the consequences of programming from the Vatican. The Vatican has long been not the same, but the Polish gentry seems to have ROMs sewn in - software cannot be updated. Whatever happened in Warsaw for five hundred years, whoever pressed Poland - Muscovites are still to blame.
  • 1536
    1536 15 July 2020 21: 56 New
    +4
    The question in today's world is posed as follows: whether this or that nation will be able to join one or another family of nations, this or that industrial, economic and technological order, and compete along with other nations on the path of progress, or will remain unsuccessful, and will dance before foreign tourists in ancient costumes and remember the past "victories" of their ancestors. However, the more bloodthirsty and stupid the meaning of these “victories” is, the easier it is to bring these people’s consciousness under complete control, because the person is so structured that he thinks about the possibility of repetition in the present or future tense of the once successful in the past, and, possibly, and unsuccessful, but such desired actions and deeds. Here, knowledge of history can play a cruel joke with its admirers.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 16 July 2020 01: 40 New
    +4
    And we have in St. Petersburg Kosciuszko street in the Moscow region. It's like Bin Laden Street in New York do it.
    1. Ruudi 34
      Ruudi 34 16 July 2020 10: 32 New
      +1
      You what for, the liberator of St. Petersburg from the Bolsheviks, Mannerheim broke the board? Putin tried and did. And you fellow countrymen have dishonored him.
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 16 July 2020 10: 34 New
      -1
      Unfortunately, the choice of names was not critical in the Soviet Union.
  • Ruudi 34
    Ruudi 34 16 July 2020 10: 40 New
    -3
    This is how the "Russian couch patriot" mixes his national identity with the interests of the "Russian State" without realizing it. (Greetings to Freud with "I" and "super-I") And knowing this property of a person, the "Russian State" can calmly wipe his feet on "his" citizen ...
  • Rostislav
    Rostislav 16 July 2020 20: 03 New
    +1
    Thank. Did not know. Awesome.
  • Molot1979
    Molot1979 24 July 2020 11: 10 New
    0
    False pshekshnya .... and their shame near Pskov also recorded victories.
    1. Vasily Andreev
      Vasily Andreev 22 August 2020 11: 13 New
      0
      Paramogs in the Ukrainian style.
  • nnz226
    nnz226 29 August 2020 12: 50 New
    0
    After the "Warsaw Matins" ALL (!!!) the Polish population had to have fun and skipping to master a new walking route called "Vladimirka" !!!