Military Review

The beginning of a new war or sloppiness? On the clash on the Armenian-Azerbaijani border

127

July 12 again speaks on the Armenian-Azerbaijani border weapon. Another inveterate conflict in the territory of the former USSR reminded of himself. Conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (NKR).


The last serious clash between the Armenian and Azerbaijani military should probably be considered the battle near the villages of Chinari and Berdavan, Tovush region of Armenia in June 2012. Perhaps this sounds strange, but the essence of the conflict over the past time has not become more clear to the average man, but, on the contrary, has moved into the realm of speculation and personal resentment. Meanwhile, this is probably the most inveterate conflict in the territory of the former USSR.

The conflict, which all the then leaders of the country knew perfectly well, but for ideological reasons, was silent and tried in every possible way not to advertise what was happening in the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region (NKAO) of the Azerbaijan SSR.

The Soviet Union brought up the “new historical community of people ”- the Soviet people. The leaders of the country and national republics hoped over time to remove the basis of the conflict on a national basis. To some extent, this problem was really solved. There was really no open confrontation in the NKAR.

The first sprouts of the future war appeared in the 60s of the last century, when calls began to be made in Yerevan to return the historically Armenian lands to Armenia. It was then, in my opinion, that the conflict began to move to the grassroots level, the level of personal relations between Armenians and Azerbaijanis.

Some readers, especially the younger generation, got the impression that the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict is a product of the perestroika and collapse of the Soviet Union. Meanwhile, if you know the history of this situation in the South Caucasus, then we can say that very soon the conflict will celebrate the “centennial anniversary” of its birth. Think about a hundred years of “frozen conflict”!

A small excursion into the history of Nagorno-Karabakh


The appearance of territorial claims against each other among the republics of the Caucasus has historically been associated with ... the collapse of the Russian Empire and the creation of nation-states. Probably, many of the school history course remember the state that was created in 1918 on the territory of the South Caucasus - the Transcaucasian Democratic Federal Republic (ZDFR). When three nations (Georgians, Armenians and Azerbaijanis) decided to live together. But few will be able to explain where this republic has gone.

Soviet historical science did not explain this question to schoolchildren. There was such a time. Around friends who quickly turn into enemies, and vice versa. Therefore, the creation and disintegration of such state formations is the same objective reality, as, for example, the appearance of clouds in the sky. Meanwhile, the new state collapsed after a month. Three states and many territorial claims to each other appeared on the ruins. Clashes began over disputed territories.

In 1920, the Sovietization of Azerbaijan took place. The Bolsheviks, with the active assistance of units of the Red Army under the leadership of the commander of the Caucasus Front M. Tukhachevsky and a member of the PBC G. Ordzhonikidze, who defeated the Volunteer Army and supported the uprising in Baku in April 1920, seized power in the country. The famous raid of "red armored trains" (commander Efremov) in a short time ensured the establishment of Soviet power.

It was at this time that the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh was decided. The territory passed under the control of Baku, and soon (1921) it was announced that an autonomous region within Azerbaijan would be created in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Armenia became part of the USSR only in 1922. But time was lost, and the Bolsheviks were not particularly engaged in this in the 20s. Almost the whole of 1922, a new state was built - the USSR. A variant of the Caucasian republics was building its own Union - FSSSRZ (Federal Union of Socialist Soviet Republics of Transcaucasia, the agreement on creation was approved on March 12, 1922 in Tiflis). The status of NK as an autonomous region of Azerbaijan in the agreement was officially approved.

Spilled blood divided peoples


I will consciously miss the Soviet period of Karabakh. Just because the real blood was shed again in modern times, when the USSR began to decay. Perestroika, glasnost, persecution of special services, the practical lack of censorship and the almost complete loss of confidence in the government - all this could not but trigger the activation of nationalists in the republics.

In our case, the Armenian National Democrats were the first to activate. It was Yerevan that raised the issue of NK status. And it was the pressure of Armenian politicians that led to the fact that in 1988 (February 20) Stepanakert adopted at a meeting of the Council of People’s Deputies a document on secession from Azerbaijan and joining Armenia. In my opinion, this resolution should be considered as the beginning of an open confrontation between Armenians and Azerbaijanis in Karabakh.

The question arises: why was such a document adopted? It is necessary to consider this issue taking into account the moods that were at that time practically on the entire territory of the USSR. But actually? The answer is on the surface. The ethnic composition of the Karabakh population: 76% are Armenians!

The answer to this decision, in my opinion, was the massacre in Azerbaijani Sumgait (February 27-29, 1988). Of course, other events can also be called the beginning, such as the shooting between the Armenians and Azerbaijanis from Agdam, which were sent to Stepanakert "to restore order" on February 21. Or the mass exodus of Azerbaijanis from the Kafan district, when 2 thousand people immediately left the district in one night. But Sumgayit is in this row especially.

By the way, the technology applied in Sumgait was subsequently applied in Kiev. On the evening of April 27, hundreds of Azerbaijanis heated by the rally and heated with wine (a fact proved and recognized by all parties) began to smash the homes of Armenians. I will give just one example from the book of V. Krivopuskov, “Rebellious Karabakh. From the diary of an officer of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs ”(the author served in the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, in 90-91 he was the chief of staff of the investigative-operational group of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs in the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region):

“The rioters, breaking into groups of several dozen people, burst into the Armenian apartments that were planned in advance. People were killed in their own homes, but more often they were taken to the streets or to the courtyard for public mockery of them. Rarely did anyone die immediately from the blow of an ax or knife. Most were waiting for agonizing bullying. They beat him to a loss of consciousness, doused with gasoline and burned alive. There were frequent cases of gang rape of women and girls, often violence occurred in front of relatives, after which they were killed. Neither the elderly nor the children were spared. ”


What's next?


Talking about the events in this region is a thankless task. Just because the more you delve into events at the level of ordinary people, at the level of one village, one family, the more difficult it becomes to find a solution. Each side cites many facts that testify to the wrongness of the enemy. It is facts, not speculation and information from the category of "people say."

Try to prove that people are not to blame for this, but the authorities are to blame, if I give you one well-known fact. 1979 census. 475 thousand Armenians live in Azerbaijan! In Armenia - 160 thousand Azerbaijanis. After 10 years, the 1989 census. 390 thousand Armenians live in Azerbaijan. In Armenia - 85 thousand Azerbaijanis. And after two years, these numbers are almost reset! Did this come from the policy of the authorities or from Sumgait and similar things?

Try to explain to the Armenians, whose relatives died in the same Sumgait, that this is simply an uncontrolled outbreak of anger, the stupidity of young people or something else that must be forgotten. Try to explain to a resident of the border village, an adult man over 50, or even over 60, that shooting from that side is a provocation, and you can’t respond to this with retaliatory fire. And he has his own trench in the garden, in which he has already defended dozens of times. I talked to such people. “This is my land! Here my ancestors lived and died. My children were born here. And no one will drive me out of here. I'd rather die, but not leave! ”

Try to explain to the Azerbaijanis why they should lose their land. In the same way, they lived here for many decades, maybe centuries. Why, under the guise of a struggle for the annexation of Nagorno-Karabakh, did the Armenians occupy the Azerbaijani lands bordering Karabakh? Let me remind you that during the three-year war (started in 1992), Karabakh gained independence from Baku, having actually occupied, in whole or in part, seven regions of Azerbaijan! If you calculate the total area (Karabakh, Kelbajar, Lachin, Kubatli, Fizuli, Agdam, Zangelan, Jabrail), an impressive figure is obtained: 19 thousand square kilometers.

The conflict moved to the grassroots level, it becomes difficult to control it. Ten years ago, the Armenians from Karabakh told me about the provocateurs on both sides, who often appeared on the demarcation line, started firing, wounded or killed someone on the other side and disappeared. And local self-defense units continued to “fight”. Often not understanding why.

While the leaders of Armenia and Azerbaijan will be more Armenians or Azerbaijanis than presidents, prime ministers, deputies and other leaders, the conflict will smolder.

Instead of a conclusion


I will give readers two reports from two defense ministries about what happened at noon on July 12 near Nagorno-Karabakh, right in the very security belt that I wrote about above.

“Starting from noon on July 12, units of the Armenian armed forces, grossly violating the ceasefire on the site of the Tovuz region of the Azerbaijani-Armenian state border, fired at our positions from artillery installations.”

Azerbaijani military

“For reasons unknown to us, the UAZ tried to violate the state border of Armenia in the direction of the Tavush region ... After the warnings of the Armenian side, the Azerbaijani troops, having left the car, returned to their positions. After that, the Azerbaijani military again tried to seize the Armenian position by shelling it. ”

I think that is enough for those who have at least once been to hot spots. A group of servicemen who have an official UAZ at their disposal went somewhere on a day off. Naturally, on official business. The road was "mixed up" for some reason and went straight to the checkpoint of the opposite side.

Crazed by such impudence, the fighters at the checkpoint naturally tried to warn those in the car that this should not be done. But again, for some reason, no one in the UAZ heard a warning. Accordingly, when approaching the checkpoint at the target range, the soldiers opened fire to defeat. The result, according to the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan: two "two hundredths" and five "three hundredths". Most likely, given that the car was abandoned, they still got off with the “three hundredths”. The rest appeared during further firing.

And the explanation is simple. Those who had the right to a company car probably also have the right to command certain units or units ... In short, the sloppiness often encountered in war times the fatigue from the fight against coronavirus, fatigue from nervous tension and other factors.

Today, war is not needed by either side. Just because the objectives of this war are unclear. And just to kill each other, the soldiers are tired. There is no solution on the battlefield! Even Russia, no matter how it appears to both sides, is unable to resolve this conflict. Personally, having friends of both Armenians and Azerbaijanis, I cannot decide for myself who is right and who is to blame. All are right and all are to blame. I think that the Kremlin has about the same mood.

Paradoxical as it may seem, but, in my opinion, the shooting must be stopped, the dead should be buried. Send the wounded for treatment. And then take politicians by the throat and call on them to resolve the Karabakh issue peacefully. And who is “the most-most Armenian or Azerbaijani who will never give up the interests of the country”, let them go to zero and argue with each other through the embrasure of the checkpoint. Enough to live in war.
Author:
Photos used:
commons.wikimedia.org
127 comments
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  1. Egoza
    Egoza 14 July 2020 06: 36
    12
    Of course, people need peace. Only now "just sit down and agree" is unlikely to work. I remember that the late Apollo (the kingdom of heaven and eternal memory to him) said that despite the seeming peace at that time, the conflict matures like an abscess, and with the shortsightedness and stubbornness (or cunning) of the leadership, sooner or later, but there will be an explosion. And everyone will be washed with blood.
    1. Civil
      Civil 14 July 2020 09: 25
      12
      Quote: Egoza
      shortsightedness and stubbornness (or guile) of leadership sooner or later, but there will be an explosion.

      The leadership of both republics uses the conflict for domestic political purposes. Not an inch of holy land to the enemy and similar slogans. At the heart of the conflict is Nazism of clean and clear water. Both of them killed each other on a national basis. The solution here is complex:
      1. Pass the stage of "national identity" and begin to respect people not on a national basis. To understand that dividing people by self-name is stupidity.
      2. To understand that politicians use conflict and national identity for manipulation, distract from real problems and their own incompetence.
      3. The value of the land is determined not by the presence of this land among dinosaurs of Armenian or Azerbaijani nationality.
      4. This conflict pulls both republics into the depths of the countries of the 3rd world, without any hope in the foreseeable future. The republics are impoverished from disproportionate military spending.
      5. The escalation of the conflict will finally send the republics to the sidelines of history and to a number of fake states such as South Sudan, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia. Subsequent takeover by more successful powers. What happened to Transcaucasia many times. It is a pity that the story to which you all refer did not teach you anything.
      1. genisis
        genisis 23 July 2020 03: 48
        +2
        I am not familiar with the author, but the article shows the substitution of the cause by the effect.
        The author deliberately! skips the Soviet period of coexistence of Armenians and Azerbaijanis. Meanwhile, it was during this period that events took place that led to the decision of the Council of People's Deputies of the NKAO.
        Author, let me ask you how many Armenians lived in the Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic in 1922? How many Armenians are left as of 1988? There were 53000, by 1988 there were less than 1000 left. But the Armenian population in 1922 was 47% of the republic's population. The author can explain where the Armenians from Nakhichevan have gone? But this is the very Soviet period that the author voluntarily decided to skip.
        And I will tell you where the Armenians have gone. Heydar Aliyev developed, implemented and systematically carried out a list of measures to squeeze the Armenian population out of Nakhichevan. For example, there was not a single university in the republic with teaching in Armenian. There were no direct roads between Armenian villages, even if they were the shortest in distance. It was possible to get from one Armenian village to another only through a village inhabited by Azerbaijanis. Then a passport regime was introduced, according to which Armenians who did not live in Nakhichevan did not have the right to enter there, since the territory was declared borderline. That is, there was no opportunity to visit relatives. The district prosecutor, the head of the militia has always been from among Azerbaijanis. Thanks to the policy of Heydar Aliyev, by 1988, three tiny Armenian villages remained on the territory of Nakhichevan. This is in the same Nakhichevan, the Armenian settlers from which in the 18th century. when moving to the Russian Empire, they named their settlement Nor-Nakhichevan, which means New Nakhichevan in memory of their native land. Author, did you forget to tell about this? Maybe you think this is a trifle?
        Then we will move on to the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Okrug. What an interesting title! For example, the Chukotka Autonomous Okrug - the Chukchi live there, the Komi-Permyat Autonomous Okrug - the Komi and Permyaks live there, the Ordino-Buryat Autonomous District - the Hordes and Buryats live there, and who lives in the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous District? Really "Nagorno-Karabakh people"? At the time of its formation and throughout the entire Soviet period of its history, NKAO was and remained an Armenian-populated territory. Through the efforts of Heydar Aliyev, the proportion of the Armenian population was reduced to 87% by the mid-1980s. As for the territory of the NKAO, Gaidar Aliyev, for example, first seized two regions from the NKAO within the borders of 1921, ostensibly to create a "Red Kurdistan". Kurdistan was never created, and after a while these regions were included in the AzSSR, creating, of course, quite by accident, the Lachin region of the AzSSR, which divided the territory of the NKAO and the Armenian SSR. Roads in NKAO were built according to exactly the same principle as in Nakhichevan. Two Armenian villages were connected to each other only through the Azerbaijani village. There were no universities in Stepanakert. Young people were encouraged to enter outside the territory of NKAO so that they would not seek to return there. The supply of construction materials to Azerbaijani-populated villages was by orders of magnitude better than the Armenian ones.
        The author either does not know all this, then why write an article? Either the author knows, but is silent, because then the canvas of his narrative collapses.
        So, dear author, by the mid-1980s it became clear that Azerbaijan's efforts to squeeze Armenians out of the NKAO along the lines of Nakhichevan were systemic. That was the reason for the rise of the national liberation movement.
        All this is perfectly described in the book by V.V. Krivopuskov "Rebellious Karabakh". It's so strange, you referred to the book, but did not begin to present information from it.
        Well, God be with you!
    2. g1v2
      g1v2 14 July 2020 16: 15
      +3
      The fact of the matter is that both sides want precisely war. Just because the status quo does not suit both sides. Azerbaijan cannot reconcile with the loss of 20 percent of the territory. Armenia controls the territory, but cannot use or annex it. As far as I remember, when the Armenians wanted to build an airport in NKR. then Azeri threatened to bring down everything that would fly there. So, both sides dream that they can win and put an end to it. But no country has the strength to do this. PM war will lead to mutual bleeding and a blow to both economies.
      1. Ruben
        Ruben 15 July 2020 03: 23
        0
        Quote: g1v2
        The fact of the matter is that both sides want precisely war.
        This is not so, dear. The Armenians do not want war precisely because the status quo suits us more than the Azerbaijanis, for whom the loss of Karabakh is not only a loss of territory, but also a strong blow to the bloated Caucasian pride. Azerbaijanis will be satisfied only with a lightning war with total victory. A defeat in a new war will cost any president of Azerbaijan a place (and maybe freedom or life), so Aliyev is in no hurry with her, realizing that a lightning war is impossible.
        1. andj61
          andj61 15 July 2020 08: 02
          -1
          Quote: Ruben
          The Armenians do not want war precisely because the status quo suits us more than the Azerbaijanis,

          What is the status quo? One in which almost a quarter of exclusively Azerbaijani territory, excluding Karabakh, is occupied and "liberated" from the Azerbaijani population? And no one is going to give this territory to Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan will be satisfied not only with a lightning victory, but also with a simple victory. In the end, Azerbaijan will gain it in the long term. His army is ALREADY stronger, and military operations outside the recognized territory of Armenia will not lead to assistance to Armenia from its allies. Both countries are losing population, but people are leaving Armenia at a faster pace. In the end, after decades, Azerbaijan's advantage will become overwhelming - it is richer and there are more people. So it is beneficial for both parties to negotiate - Azerbaijan in order to bloodlessly return its territory, and Armenia - in order to bloodlessly save face. And Karabakh should be transferred for 50-100 years under joint control, or under the control of the UN, or something like that. And it will be beneficial to both countries.
          1. Farid Alekperov
            Farid Alekperov 15 July 2020 11: 15
            0
            In my opinion, the Karabakh issue arose from the Armenians, in connection with the demographic prospects unfavorable for them. The birth rate of Azerbaijanis is an order of magnitude higher, and even for many Armenians, the framework of Nagorno-Karabakh was insufficient to realize their ambition. Many left for the same Baku and Russia. If it were not for the war that contributed to the collapse of the USSR, then I think that today there would be more Azerbaijanis in Karabakh than Armenians, and then they would not have had a chance for "miatsum".
            1. Vicontas
              Vicontas 15 July 2020 21: 18
              0
              Fact one - during the time of the two republics being part of the USSR, no conflicts between the peoples happened! It all started as a result of the breaking and breaking of relations, when Gorbachev fell into euphoria from his "peacekeeping" activities in the international arena and stopped noticing threats from "partners" who were diligently working towards the collapse of the USSR. Including with the help of nationalists of all stripes. The second fact is that at present the number of Armenians and Azerbaijanis on the territory of Russia is comparable to their number within the republics. And nothing is heard about interethnic conflicts between them. This is the solution to the issue - both republics are part of Russia as a RUSSIAN territory! It is clear that the local "Fuhrer" and the Nazis do not want to lose power and the opportunity to make a beautiful life for themselves with its help, so let the people decide ...
              1. Farid Alekperov
                Farid Alekperov 15 July 2020 22: 57
                -1
                you are mistaken in some way because of superficial knowledge of the subject. Conflicts at the household level were also very serious. For example, in some Armenian villages in Nagorno-Karabakh, Azerbaijanis were ordered to enter the Soviet Union. The nationalists were primarily from Armenia, which, like the Jews, were closely connected with the foreign diaspora. And the foreign diaspora of the Armenians is one of the most powerful and nationalist in the world. The conflict got its voice in 1987 after an interview with academician and part-time assistant to Gorbachev for economics, Aganbegyan, to the French newspaper Yumanite, in which he expressed the advisability of transmitting Nagorno-Karabakh to Armenia.
                And the conflict itself was initially associated with Russian imperial politics in the Caucasus, which at first made a bet on the resettlement of the Christian element in the person of Armenians from Turkey and Persia to the territory of the Azerbaijani khanates, and then, disappointed in the Armenians, set local Muslims against them to punish for revolutionary ideas and the desire for independence.
          2. siemens7774
            siemens7774 18 July 2020 21: 41
            0
            andj61? No UN management, God forbid. These geeks just want this. They deliberately create such situations and, under the guise of protection, bring in troops to completely subjugate this territory under their control.
        2. g1v2
          g1v2 15 July 2020 11: 46
          +3
          Today, the NKR in fact is a suitcase without a handle. There is control over the territory, but Armenia cannot use it, develop infrastructure, etc. The Armenian leadership, too, would like to force Azeri to recognize the loss of territories, or at least abandon attempts to return them by military means. However, both sides cannot win - there are no forces. Again, on both sides there is tension in society from coronovirus and economic problems, which are better to throw out so as not to break inside the country. PM remains a massacre for several weeks, after which the steam will splash out and the situation will calm down for a couple of years.
          In fact, we are the only ones who do not need this war in FIG, because we now have excellent relations with both parties and the status quo suits us. But for the Turks and mattresses, a small fire on our southern borders is just beneficial. request
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 14 July 2020 06: 36
    +5
    Enough to live in war.
    ... It is a pity that politicians on both sides do not understand this and do not want to understand ...
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 14 July 2020 10: 53
      +5
      Quote: parusnik
      Enough to live in war.
      ... It is a pity that politicians on both sides do not understand this and do not want to understand ...

      Yes, they all understand perfectly. They just have different goals, not peace.
      1. Naughty
        Naughty 16 July 2020 19: 06
        +1
        On the market in Nizhniy Novgorod, Armenians sell greens next to Azerbaijanis. Fun and not forced. All this "war" is a battle of the Papuans. Senseless not needed by the peoples. Let them beat each other.
    2. siemens7774
      siemens7774 18 July 2020 21: 49
      0
      parusnik, Politicians understand everything, they make a fortune on this wave: more mess, less tax, it's easier to hide income.
  3. Finches
    Finches 14 July 2020 06: 37
    20
    The essence of the community of people in 1/6, in which peace and prosperity reigned, is ... a children's pyramid! We are all from childhood ... On the core - Russia and the Russian people, all other nations were strung together - a monolithic structure was obtained, which at different times was called differently - the Russian Empire, the USSR ... Then the traitors and the Anglo-Saxons came and dismantled the pyramid and now the components lying around in different corners of one room find out who pisses on the wall above! They can have local achievements, but never have strategic development - only wars and squabbles!
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Finches
        Finches 14 July 2020 11: 36
        +2
        This is a provocative flood, dear, and has nothing to do with this article! hi
  4. svp67
    svp67 14 July 2020 06: 37
    +3
    Those who had the right to a company car probably also have the right to command some units or units ...
    Only on condition that the soldiers themselves did not decide to "rest" a little and take a ride ... I think that any commander would immediately figure out that we were going in the wrong place.
    1. Avior
      Avior 14 July 2020 06: 49
      +2
      In the Donbass, such cases also occurred.
      Both for a reason and a ride.
      There is no front line as such.
      1. svp67
        svp67 14 July 2020 07: 10
        +5
        Quote: Avior
        There is no front line as such.

        There it has been "improved" since the 90s and the roads through it have not been traveled for a long time
        1. Avior
          Avior 14 July 2020 07: 33
          +2
          Recently, I remember there was a case when 8 Ukrainians stopped at the DPR checkpoint, I don’t know why, but they were traveling on official business.
  5. qaz
    qaz 14 July 2020 07: 22
    14 th
    Lord, when will you already learn the Russian language ?? !!! What is not a comment is an error on an error. Are you Russian at all?
    1. Finches
      Finches 14 July 2020 08: 20
      10
      Swear, rapist ...! laughing
    2. Alex Nevs
      Alex Nevs 14 July 2020 09: 03
      0
      The Internet is an information dump, just like a gadget dump. as well as a klavasvalka. From mobile phones, either letters or symbols are rolled. And even that is not always familiar. For a landfill (trash).
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 14 July 2020 10: 32
        +7
        Quote: Alex Nevs
        Internet - information dump

        This is not the case. Many people write from smartphones, and typing oh is not easy on a small keyboard.
        1. Finches
          Finches 14 July 2020 13: 11
          +6
          Buttons are half the trouble, a foreign gadget, all the time corrects words or changes endings - did not look, wrote nonsense! laughing
    3. zlobny tatarin
      zlobny tatarin 14 July 2020 10: 16
      +3
      Yes Yes! When you write correctly. And the fact "that there is NO comment" is a mistake.
    4. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 14 July 2020 10: 58
      +4
      Quote: qaz

      What is not a comment is an error on an error.

      Look at yourself, are you good? Literate damn it.
  6. Avior
    Avior 14 July 2020 07: 27
    +6
    It is a difficult topic to write about such issues, although the author tried to do it, but still it seems that the Armenian position is nevertheless closer to him.
    According to Sumgait, for example, if you read the author, then they suddenly drank and went to smash.
    In fact, the reasons were much deeper - in Sumgait, a mass of refugees accumulated - Azerbaijanis who fled from Armenia in fear for their lives.
    And then they find themselves in Azerbaijan, and see that the Armenians live normally here.
    Of course, I understand that the Armenians from Sumgait had nothing to do with the fact that they had to flee from Armenia, on the contrary, they probably did not support it, they definitely did not need it.
    But try to explain this to people who suddenly lost everything.
    It is clear that it was not without provocateurs and instigators.
    The first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Azerbaijan, Kamran Bagirov, and the chairman of the government, Hasan Seyidov, came to reassure the people, but they just had to escape.
    The policeman in the article describes the pogrom, but does not emphasize that the police simply lost control of the situation. He himself writes that in the summaries before the events from Sumgait, there is only one household thing.
    Moreover, before that a similar situation was in Baku, but there the police and the authorities dealt with, organized combatants in the places of residence of the Armenians and took other measures.
    The official number of deaths in Sumgait_32 people, unofficially, hundreds.
    Such events often grow like an avalanche in the mountains, with one or two pebbles, and roll, increasing in volume, starting, outwardly, with trifles.
    But the consequences can be very tragic.
    1. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 14 July 2020 11: 52
      +1
      The paralysis of power was complete. It was necessary to send troops to Sumgayit and all. For three days the rioters felt their power and strength, reveling in it. What hope is there for the police if she is from the local? And by the way, it is my opinion exclusively - I believe that it was after Sumgait that centrifugal forces in the USSR received a significant impetus. The interested forces understood that decision centers (power centers) are practically cowards !!! Or not interested in making the only right decisions. 1991, the State Emergency Committee, sent troops to Moscow without a clear mission, goal and plan of action.
      1. KURT330
        KURT330 14 July 2020 14: 16
        -1
        He lives in the Moscow region, you can find and punish wink



        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 14 July 2020 14: 26
          0
          fool Who to punish? Gorbachev, Yakovlev, Shevardnadze ??? It is necessary to punish the entire top of the USSR for cowardice and unsuitability. You didn’t come up with anything smarter?
          1. KURT330
            KURT330 14 July 2020 14: 29
            -2
            Pinched?)) I knew it! wink
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 14 July 2020 14: 34
              -1
              You are an ordinary nationalist verbiage. It’s better to calculate how many times Russia weighed your lyulee idols to Turks ??? Count and Erase tongue
              1. KURT330
                KURT330 14 July 2020 15: 31
                -1
                laughing In the course of this, you settled in the accounting chamber wink You have the opportunity to scribble all sorts of muck here, following the example of the Lyuley Mule, well, they’ll immediately take us to the front sight wink And take into account, you yourself will soon have nothing to wipe wink
                1. Okolotochny
                  Okolotochny 17 July 2020 22: 44
                  0
                  So counted and burst into tears? And soon - when? When do we throw you in the Caspian? tongue
                  What kind of pontorezes you were not expensive, you remained so. Some show off. How many times have Russia hit you on the fifth point, only you have not learned anything. Learning is not yours. Here in the markets - yes. There you are heroes.
                  1. KURT330
                    KURT330 20 July 2020 09: 28
                    -1
                    Here it is .. continue to lick the Russian boot wink
      2. Avior
        Avior 14 July 2020 22: 08
        +1
        the first such events that I learned about were December 1986, Alma-Ata, the assault on the Central Committee.
        An urgent friend of mine served there in VV, sent a letter by civil mail with a description.
        For me it was just a shock, they had never heard anything like this before, and then suddenly I actually touched it.
    2. Ruben
      Ruben 15 July 2020 03: 33
      +3
      Only here is one important point - Azerbaijani refugees, many managed to sell houses and take the most necessary. Many left ahead of time, knowing that this story wouldn’t end with anything good for them. There were no massacres and mockery of them. What happened in Sumgait is just one example. What about Baku? Gorbachev eventually sent troops to Baku, but only when everything turned into an anti-Soviet rebellion. In general, politics was not without.
      1. Avior
        Avior 15 July 2020 06: 27
        -1
        I know. It was not massive.
        But they were squeezed out, they were sure that if they did not leave, they would not live there.
        They not just fled from Armenia.
        But resentment against the Armenians from this did not become less.
        I wrote above, such tragedies often begin as an avalanche in the mountains, with one pebble, and gradually increase. One by one. And in this case, the chain can be drawn too.
        hi
  7. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 14 July 2020 07: 48
    -1
    A group of servicemen who have an official UAZ at their disposal went somewhere on a day off. Naturally, on official business. The road was "mixed up" for some reason and went straight to the checkpoint of the opposite side.
    Naturally, having tasted good Azerbaijani port wine ("Sunday, joyful day. Let your shadow disappear from thunderstorms." Song).
    And then take politicians by the throat and call on them to resolve the Karabakh issue peacefully.
    Will not work. request From the beginning, you need to fill the face of the Turks so that gasoline does not splash into the fire. angry
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 14 July 2020 08: 50
      +8
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      From the beginning, you need to fill the face of the Turks so that gasoline does not splash into the fire.

      And where are the Turks?
      They cannot influence the desire of Azerbaijan to return its territories.
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 14 July 2020 10: 53
        0
        Quote: Spade
        And where are the Turks?

        Turks everywhere .... get out of the corners. repeat Their Foreign Ministry has already announced support for Azeri.
        1. KURT330
          KURT330 14 July 2020 14: 19
          -1
          Well, firstly, not Azeris, but Azerbaijanis.
          Secondly, the Turks will not interfere with anyone sideways ... unless anyone also comes up on the side of Armenia.
      2. KURT330
        KURT330 14 July 2020 14: 18
        0
        Perhaps for the first time I agree with you.
  8. Yura
    Yura 14 July 2020 08: 03
    +1
    Good article!!!
  9. Jünger
    Jünger 14 July 2020 08: 23
    11 th
    In general, we should be purple and up to both. It is necessary to sell weapons to both sides, to make money on these "comrades". Not all of them money from Russia to pump out.
    And so - that Armenians with Azerbaijanis, that Tutsi with Sumerians - in parallel.
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 14 July 2020 08: 56
      +1
      Not in parallel.

      Wherever more than half of the population speaks fluent Russian as a second colloquial household, it cannot be parallel.

      This is a Russian-speaking ecumene. Super-community, if that’s clearer. Civilization, separate.

      Impudently Saxons on their periphery - let them sell weapons and start wars, and at least let their feet go under the tail and blacks (which, in fact, they have been doing recently). Here it is - yes, in parallel, and does not cause any emotions, except for gloating and pity for those adequate who are there.

      And Armenia and Azerbaijan - "we are responsible for those who have tamed."
      1. Jünger
        Jünger 14 July 2020 09: 06
        +9
        Russia and the Russian people are now in a deep crisis. Spiritual first. It is vitally important for us to shut ourselves in for a while, to concentrate. All these Russian-speaking, but not Russian by blood (not all, of course) interfere with this - they drag the country in different directions, pump out resources from it, do not allow us to reassemble our inner core, to form an ideology.
        Quote: AllBiBek
        And Armenia and Azerbaijan - "we are responsible for those who have tamed."

        At the moment, they all need to be sent a good kick away. They separated from Russia, they wanted to live their own minds - let them live, stop wiping their asses.
        As they say - "She died, she died", no need to mess with ballast. We need to take care of Baba Masha from Uryupinsk, finally, and Mahmud and Ashot - ugh on them.
        They want to fight - here you have weapons as much as you want for hard currency and forward.
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 14 July 2020 09: 36
          -1
          I totally agree.
          But to beat on the Turkish and Persian nape and nose for the legs extended where it is not necessary - it is necessary.

          And then divorced in a region of states with a complex of national disability and an imperial past, not to push through.
        2. domokl
          14 July 2020 10: 35
          +5
          Quote: Junger
          Russia and the Russian people are now in a deep crisis. Spiritual first. It is vitally important for us to shut ourselves in for a while, to concentrate. All these Russian-speaking, but not Russian by blood (not all, of course) interfere with this - they drag the country in different directions, pump out resources from it, do not allow us to reassemble our inner core, to form an ideology.

          It is fundamentally not a Russian, not a Russian position. Moreover, the position of the enemy of Russia. We are not shaved and not Americans, we are Russian. Pushkin Russian, Bagration Russian, Bering Russian, Shevchenko Russian, Barclay de Tolly Russian. Not Russian speakers, but Russians. That is why we have a thousand-year history that we never were covered by a wall, we always accepted everyone who came to us. And in return they received their mind, their courage, their devotion, their willingness to die a Russian soldier for Russia ..
          Which Russians will "concentrate"? Blond from the North? Black ones from the Kuban and Stavropol Territories, narrow-eyed in Eastern Siberia? As soon as there is a division of us into right and wrong, we will disappear. And this will be correct from a historical point of view. We are one mentally. This is our karma, if you like.
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 14 July 2020 11: 01
            +3
            Quote: domokl
            Pushkin Russian

            Absolutely right.
            Quote: domokl
            Bagration Russian, Bering Russian, Shevchenko Russian, Barclay de Tolly Russian.

            Shevchenko is Russian, the rest are maximum Russian subjects. None of his contemporaries considered Barclay or Bering Russian. The Germans considered them. And the same Ermolov about this publicly stated and expressed dissatisfaction.
            Quote: domokl
            That’s why we have a thousand-year history, that we never were covered by a wall, we always accepted everyone who came to us

            Yes, but only we never forgot that we are Russian Orthodox and the state and army primarily defended the position of the Russians - in the Caucasus, in Central Asia. No one in the right mind of the Kadyrovs and Magomedovs appointed to the post of governor.
            Quote: domokl
            And in return they received their mind, their courage, their devotion, their willingness to die a Russian soldier for Russia ..

            Only in most cases they were not drafted into the army. The army is then strong when it is monolithic nationally and religiously. About the mind and devotion is better to keep silent ..
            And do not give an exception to the rule.
            Quote: domokl
            Which Russians will "concentrate"? Blond from the North? Black ones from the Kuban and Stavropol Territories, narrow-eyed in Eastern Siberia?

            If a person calls himself Russian, speaks Russian and, most importantly, professes a common imperial ideology - this is in most cases enough.
            Quote: domokl
            We are united mentally. This is our karma, if you like.

            From the age of 17 and even earlier, we are no longer mentally united. We are all long disagreements.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 14 July 2020 11: 08
              -3
              If a person calls himself Russian, speaks Russian and, most importantly, professes a common imperial ideology - this is in most cases enough.

              You have a system error. Either a nation state or an empire. All-imperial ideology and Russian (any other) national identity are incompatible
              Any empire is built primarily on the bones of the titular nation and its well-being and future will inevitably be sacrificed.
              1. Jünger
                Jünger 14 July 2020 11: 48
                +4
                Quote: Engineer
                All-imperial ideology and Russian (any other) national identity are incompatible

                A normal empire brings its subjects to a single denominator, and those who do not want to leave on the sidelines live in auls according to Sharia. And from what this denominator will grow - from the Russian national or Byzantine Orthodox - this is the tenth matter.
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 14 July 2020 12: 05
                  0
                  The trouble is that those left "living on the sidelines" continue to drain resources and overstrain.
                  Any imperial project for Russia is Russophobic. As for Britain - Anglophobic
                  from Russian national or Byzantine Orthodox - this is the tenth case

                  That is, you don’t give a damn at all, if only Russia is called?
                  1. Jünger
                    Jünger 14 July 2020 17: 26
                    0
                    Quote: Engineer
                    The trouble is that those left "living on the sidelines" continue to drain resources and overstrain.

                    They do not draw anything in a normal state. The Chukchi live, pay the White Tsar on the skin of the plague and no one owes them anything and they do not owe anyone.
                    Yes, in stupid states, such as the USSR, they mess with nationalities, give different quotas, enrich themselves at the expense of the titular nation. But such people do not live long.
                    Any empire is built primarily on the bones of the titular nation and its well-being and future will inevitably be sacrificed.

                    Not. A normal empire draws juices from those affiliated in favor of a titular nation. When the reverse process begins, the empire collapses.
                    Quote: Engineer
                    That is, you don’t give a damn at all, if only Russia is called?

                    I don’t give a damn. I meant that each empire has its own ideology.
            2. Kronos
              Kronos 14 July 2020 19: 49
              -1
              No army religion needs enough propaganda and clear goals
              1. Crash
                Crash 16 July 2020 10: 21
                +1
                I do not understand why they slammed the minus for you. All right. The modern army is professionals who carry out their work for certain benefits and based on internal motives. The times of the crusaders must go down in history.
          2. boni592807
            boni592807 22 July 2020 17: 26
            0
            Agree with Jünger (Paphnutii) July 14, 2020 09:06 "... At the moment, all of them (former brothers, now NOT brothers) should be sent away with a good kick. They separated from Russia, wanted to live with their own minds - let them live, enough to wipe their asses.
            As they say - "She died, she died", no need to mess with ballast. We need to take care of Baba Masha from Uryupinsk, finally, and Mahmud and Ashot - ugh on them.
            They want to fight - here you have as many weapons as you want for hard currency and more ... "!
            what

            You are a colleague (domokl (Alexander) July 14, 2020 10:35), this ("..We are one mentally. This is our karma, if you like .... ") tell the parents, the ex-fiancée, the unborn children of the special forces soldier Nikita Belyankin, who died at his home in Putilkovo (Krasnogorsk). And read on the internet the comments of the perpetrators of the events in their homeland, there and about Russia and about all "... from black to blond ...." Russians. Much different in form and content. There are also other representatives of the "fraternal" and former ... incl. an example from what came to hand. belay
            Text from info on Krasnogorsk:
            "...Putin 12.06.2020 presented gold stars to Heroes of Laborа
            https://news.ru/society/putin-vruchil-zolotye-zvyozdy-geroyam-truda/?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2Fnews
            The head of state congratulated the citizens of the country and compatriots abroad on the Day of Russia, stressed that "for each of us, the Motherland is a family, and a fatherly home, a native land - from Kaliningrad to Kamchatka and the Kuril Islands, from the northern seas to Sevastopol and Crimea." According to him, the bright and piercing feeling of the Motherland at all times helped our people go through adversity, to respond to any challenges. This led Nikita Belyankin, our fellow countryman.
            https://www.perm.kp.ru/daily/27080.5/4151741/. НLet us recall that at the cost of his own life, the 24-year-old fighter saved two guys who were brutally beaten by eleven Armenians. It all happened on June 1, 2019 in the Putilkovo village near Nikita's house. One of the attackers stabbed Nikita in the heart, which had become a fatal stab. According to the city administration, a memorial plaque was installed on the house number three on Novotushinskaya street, where the special forces soldier lived. “Great happiness and salvation for people who are offended is that there are other people nearby - strong, with a heightened sense of justice, capable of serious deeds. Sometimes they do them only once in their life, as Nikita did, ”said the head of Mr. O. Krasnogorsk Elmira Khaimurzina at the opening ceremony of the commemorative plaque.
            I would like to know how the investigation is going (how it ended). Are all the killers caught and how are they punished? What measures have been taken to prevent such actions by guests. According to the presence of an ambulance in Putilkovo and the presence of the police there.
            Today is 1 year and 12 days from the day of his feat and death. Thank you and a deep bow to his parents for such a son.
            Happy Russia Day everyone .. "

            You, colleague (domokl (Alexander) 14 July 2020 10:35), look on the internet how things are going on THIS CASE and answer (I quote you - "... We are one mentally. This is our karma, if you want" ?! "You and YOU, Taki YES or ... then fewer words, the choice of side ahead is yours. "Parabellum, they will give you" (quote by Ilf and Petrov) angry .
            The question is NOT in the participants in the conflict, but in the fact that adults and long-term independent uncles, I solve the problem themselves. And Russia will still (as a rule) be guilty in any case. In the end, it's time to learn from the Anglo-Saxons, the main interests of the country - Russia. And there a "good" knot is tied, if not the opposing sides themselves decide. "And, as I remember, an intelligent monkey (China, USA, England and further on the list of potential beneficiaries) sitting on a tree will wait for a bear or a tiger to stay and get EVERYTHING !!!" And the sides are just like a kid in childhood in the company of gopiniks. His role is to come up and say - "Uncle, give me money! (Or light a cigarette) and rushed. So it seems to me! It's a sin, maybe I'm wrong crying
            Incl. Diaspora, sell everything acquired in Russia by "UNbearable" labor, buy THESE funds from tanks to air defense systems. At the same time, learn and go, the historical HOMELAND IS WAITING FOR YOU !!! Are you patriots or what ...Business, trade, busy ??? "Yes Yes"...
      2. andrew42
        andrew42 14 July 2020 12: 38
        +4
        If you don’t put out the neighbor’s house, he’ll soon flare up his own. Old as the world. Another thing is that if a neighbor blows up the fire itself, then it is necessary to talk with someone sane from his family, and provide assistance so that the fool is twisted. Of course, you should not climb there with all your soul open (like an elephant in a china shop), but you should not pay attention either.
        1. Jünger
          Jünger 14 July 2020 17: 30
          +2
          Quote: andrew42
          If you don’t put out the neighbor’s house, he’ll soon flare up his own.

          This generalization and exaggeration - nothing flashes from the conflict between Azeris and Armenians. And sparkling can of course. But then the normal state takes those and others and throws it out with a kick - let it go outside and understand it. A small tension at the border is always useful for the state.
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 14 July 2020 18: 51
            +2
            And when do you think it flares up? When will NATO bases appear in Armenia? And Turkish Azerbaijan (also NATO, today formally, and tomorrow not) -? How many times have modern history taught with a rake on the nose - as soon as Russia reduces to zero its influence on a neighboring state, an anti-Russian enclave is immediately created there. Both in Armenia and Azerbaijan, foreign agents of influence, anti-Russian influence are in full swing: in Armenia - "classical Western", in Azerbaijan - "pan-Turkic pro-Turkish". As if they were born in the morning, by God. The same official Armenia, had it not been in a hostile environment, would have shown Russia "classic Georgian greetings" long ago, especially with Pashinyan at the head. So, Russia has no other policy than "to keep and not to let go," but not yet. For there to be a different policy, Russia should be an economic center of attraction for the economies of both Armenia and Azerbaijan. It's funny to remind, but we have nothing to boast of in this regard, with "the middle class of 17 tyrs" per capita from "the bounty of the guarantor." How much you stand, you stand there.
            1. Jünger
              Jünger 14 July 2020 20: 31
              -3
              Quote: andrew42
              When will NATO bases appear in Armenia? And Azerbaijan is Turkish (also NATO, today formally, but not tomorrow) -?

              NATO does not take for only a proud non-Russian person. Have you counted many bases in Georgia or Ukraine? Nobody needs aggressive nonsense.
              Quote: andrew42
              For a different policy, Russia should be an economic center of attraction for the economies of Armenia and Azerbaijan.

              What is the use of these parasites? Apricots buy for cheap only if. All members of the CIS, with the exception of Belarus and partly Kazakhstan, are ballast and must be driven by a filthy broom.
              These members will only make any organization weaker. We keep them in vain - write off loans, provide preferences, but they need to bring us the last, but we still thought whether to take it or not.
              1. Crash
                Crash 16 July 2020 10: 30
                0
                NATO does not take for only a proud non-Russian person. Have you counted many bases in Georgia or Ukraine? Nobody needs aggressive nonsense.

                Don’t tell my horseshoes! laughing You list similar countries - NATO members around Russia? winked
    2. Alkatrass A
      Alkatrass A 14 July 2020 21: 19
      -4
      You should have spoken like that when Chechnya almost put you on your knees ..... and the fact that the children are dying there is nothing? .... You have neither honor nor conscience .... the nation will support, because the boomerang effect has not yet been canceled .... For more accurately with the desire
      1. Jünger
        Jünger 14 July 2020 21: 26
        +3
        Quote: Аlkatrass A
        but the fact that children die there is nothing ?.

        Children die every day in Africa - from hunger, disease and war. How are their children worse than yours? Do you tear your beard about this and bring help to the Nigerian Embassy? I don’t think so ...
        If you do not owe African children, then why should Russia be yours? They arranged a feeder for themselves on someone else's hump and still swing the rights.
        1. Alkatrass A
          Alkatrass A 14 July 2020 21: 35
          -5
          You scratch under that channel which is convenient for you. Azerbaijan will never resist the Armenians, you know it, the Armenian knows it and the whole world knows it. As for the children of Nigeria .... dear, children do not recognize either the nation or the politicians. No matter what nation your child is, he has the right to live. Here is the difference between you Azerbaijanis and Armenians. You have neither honor nor conscience.
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 14 July 2020 21: 39
            +2
            I scratch under the heading that no one likes parasites. And if you are separated from Russia, then live with your honor and conscience - eat them and use where necessary, but do not bother with Russians.
  10. To be or not to be
    To be or not to be 14 July 2020 08: 36
    +2
    Azerbaijan is in line with the politics of Turkey.
    Turkey slammed heavily in Libya and Syria Egypt on the stream
    Yes, even with a mosque in Istanbul. Most countries are against
    And how was this conflict on the border of Armenia during the next straining in the CSTO and on the outskirts of Russia ...
    Russia gave more of its territories during the artificial collapse of the USSR ..
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 14 July 2020 09: 00
      +2
      Everything is more complicated there.
      The Turks support the Sunni clans, which are there in the minority, but in business. On the other hand, there the majority of the population are Shiites, followed by Iran. And the Turks also have pan-Turkism of the brain, that is, an obsessive desire to stand at the head of all Turkic peoples, so also the Sunnis do not all look into their mouths.

      It’s Transcaucasia, who is there with whom, when and to whom, and because of what kindred, territorial, and clan intricacies — the one-legged shaitan of two hundred hooves will dislocate itself.
  11. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 14 July 2020 08: 42
    +3
    Already wrote in another commentary, this long-term ethnic conflict can only be resolved by population settlement on a national basis, territorial mutual concessions and delimitations and demarcation of the state border between countries, there will be no peace between Armenians and Azerbaijanis for a long time
  12. Strashila
    Strashila 14 July 2020 08: 47
    +6
    So they divide the Russian lands, Nagorno-Karabakh was a separate principality that became part of the Russian Empire ..
    May 26, 1805, the local ruler Ibrahim Khalil Khan took the oath to the Russian Emperor Alexander I.
    1. alone
      alone 14 July 2020 09: 36
      +6
      Quote: Strashila
      May 1805, the local ruler Ibrahim Khalil Khan took the oath to the Russian Emperor Alexander I.

      Exactly ... Ibrahimkhalil Khan, ruler of the Karabakh Khanate. That's it, everything falls into place. There, as if there were a lot of Armenians, the local ruler is Azerbaijani.
  13. Fon elia
    Fon elia 14 July 2020 09: 21
    -6
    Russia is to blame when, after the Turkmenchay Treaty, it began to resettle Armenians in Transcaucasia. This is the beginning of the 19th century. And Russia is responsible for this. Only in a single state can all these inter-ethnic conflicts be resolved. And now there is a struggle for control of the Caucasus. Between Turkey and Russia. But the Armenians and Azerbaijanis are an instrument of this confrontation.
    1. alone
      alone 14 July 2020 09: 40
      +4
      Quote: Fon Elia
      Only in a single state can all these inter-ethnic conflicts be resolved.

      The conflict began under a single state. However, no one decided ... although it could be done in one day. The KGB knew about all the organizers and instigators.
      But they were not arrested. Rather, some strange game was going on. They were arrested and released. Several times
  14. Tibul
    Tibul 14 July 2020 09: 30
    -2
    Of course, the mood of the 60s would play a further role in the conflict, but it didn’t start with them.
    The answer to this decision, in my opinion, was the massacre in Azerbaijani Sumgait (February 27-29, 1988)

    My, and not only mine, opinion of the beginning of the conflict is different.
    In 1988, on television (live broadcast) to Gorbatom, the Armenians complained about the Azerbaijanis that they did not allow them to watch Armenian TV and learn the Armenian language in schools in Karabakh, asking the head of state for assistance in this matter. There were NO sentiments for separation! I myself often visited both there and there, in Karabakh, the Armenians and Azerbaijanis got along well. But further, after this appeal to Gorbaty, I remembered for the rest of my life. Hunchback hit his desk with his fist and said loudly and sharply: "Do not happen to this!"
    After a couple of days, the massacre began.
  15. Roman123567
    Roman123567 14 July 2020 09: 40
    -1
    When three nations (Georgians, Armenians and Azerbaijanis) decided to live together.

    Meanwhile, the new state collapsed in a month. Three states and many territorial claims to each other appeared on the ruins. Clashes began over disputed territories.


    How interesting it is written .. Today they united .. tomorrow they "fell apart" .. and the clashes began .. And yesterday they had everything smooth and smooth. and there were no territorial disputes ?? For a month, suddenly such problems have grown ??
    1. domokl
      14 July 2020 10: 39
      0
      Quote: Roman123567
      In a month, such problems suddenly increased ??

      Such is the mudflow .. Nothing that I really do? A textbook read in any way? There are few familiar words?
      1. Roman123567
        Roman123567 14 July 2020 10: 53
        -1
        The textbook should be read Armenian or Azerbaijani ??
        Had everything been so simple there - would you have crossed the borders with which you united a month ago .. After all, the textbook says - where did the border go at the time of the decision to live together ??
        1. domokl
          14 July 2020 19: 45
          +2
          Quote: Roman123567
          had it been so simple there - they would have spread along the borders with which they united a month ago.

          Let me remind you that in the Russian Empire there was no division according to the national principle. Accordingly, there were no borders between the new states.
          1. Jünger
            Jünger 14 July 2020 22: 45
            +1
            Quote: domokl
            Let me remind you that in the Russian Empire there was no division according to the national principle.

            Of course it was. There was such a legal concept - a foreigner. No need to come up with pink paintings of the past, which were not there.
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 14 July 2020 22: 54
              0
              Quote: Junger
              Of course it was. There was such a legal concept - a foreigner. No need to come up with pink paintings of the past.

              A reference with examples is desirable. And so, empty demagoguery. request
              1. Jünger
                Jünger 14 July 2020 23: 51
                +2
                Quote: Tank Hard
                A reference with examples is desirable. And so, empty demagoguery.

                Can't you use Yandex? Forget the request and learn a lot about this widely known fact.
                For example, the Big Russian Encyclopedia summarizes on this issue:
                In a broad sense, foreigners were called (especially in the late XIX - early XX centuries) all subjects of the Russian emperor who did not belong to the Slavic peoples, for example, Tatars, Bashkirs.

                And more:
                The legislation on I. was extensive

                Russia has always been a typical European country with a rather tough attitude towards nationalities (not all), and not an equal union of fraternal peoples. Such an alliance would tear apart the whole empire in an instant.
                1. Tank hard
                  Tank hard 15 July 2020 10: 47
                  -1
                  Quote: Junger
                  Can't you use Yandex? Forget a request and learn a lot about this widely known fact.

                  Not the most reasonable answer. repeat
                  Quote: Junger
                  Russia has always been a typical european country with a rather tough attitude towards nationalities (not all),

                  A masterpiece! laughing
  16. uranium
    uranium 14 July 2020 09: 56
    0
    The article is clearly about Armenian. On the state border between Azerbaijan and Armenia, tension is beneficial only to Armenia. She always tried to drag Russia and the CSTO into this conflict on the Karabakh front, she does not succeed, so they decided to provoke Azerbaijan precisely in the area of ​​the state border.
    1. alone
      alone 14 July 2020 10: 35
      +2
      Quote: uran
      She always tried to drag Russia and the CSTO into this conflict on the Karabakh front, she does not succeed, so they decided to provoke Azerbaijan precisely in the area of ​​the state border.

      There is another important factor. Pashinyan seeks to run to the West. He knows that Azerbaijan has good relations with the CSTO member countries. And that such junctions are unlikely to be an excuse for the CSTO to be included in the conflict. Here he brewed porridge so that he could later tell his people that the CSTO He didn’t help us, and the West will help us. Here is such a game with him.
      They attacked the post, fell under attack, decided to take with them an UAZ which was at the post like a trophy, but arrived, the UAZ was destroyed by ours. That's the whole mess
    2. domokl
      14 July 2020 10: 45
      +5
      Quote: uran
      The article is clearly about Armenian.

      Well yes. And your comment pro-Azerbaijani is obtained? Somehow it does not grow together with you. Yerevan periodically shows its independence from Russia. Baku, on the contrary, is trying to maintain equal relations. Can you decide for yourself who is right in this conflict and who is to blame? In the article, by the way, there is one.
      So who does Russia support today? Yerevan or Baku? Who is more loyal to Russia, Yerevan or Baku? How simple it is for you. Some kind of black and white world ...
      1. uranium
        uranium 14 July 2020 13: 28
        +1
        My comment is objective. The borders of Azerbaijan are clearly marked and the entire world community supports the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan, including Russia. Who is more loyal to Russia is a small example of course, but in Azerbaijan the presence of Russian schools and universities in which education is conducted in Russian speaks for itself. In contrast to "about Russian" Armenia, where education in the language of an "ally" is prohibited or absent.
  17. vladimych
    vladimych 14 July 2020 10: 36
    +3
    .... "And the soldiers are tired of just killing each other." If the soldiers were tired, it was no fucking thing to open fire on the UAZ. Well, I would have driven up, realized that it was not there, turned around and that's it. But no, let's smack all the guns.
  18. Engineer
    Engineer 14 July 2020 11: 02
    +3
    The last serious clash between the Armenian and Azerbaijani military should probably be considered the battle near the villages of Chinari and Berdavan, Tovush region of Armenia in June 2012.

    Someone tell the author about the 2016 Four Day War.
  19. bar
    bar 14 July 2020 11: 17
    0
    The beginning of a new war or sloppiness?

    I think the ears of Sultan Erdogan stick out of all this. He has emboldened recently.
  20. tagil45
    tagil45 14 July 2020 11: 31
    +1
    You need to sow bread, not grief.
  21. Disqueto
    Disqueto 14 July 2020 13: 16
    +1
    Ethnic conflicts are the most difficult to resolve, especially if both parties use them to achieve their goals and objectives. So no one wants to come to an agreement, otherwise they would have settled this conflict long ago with the help of intermediaries.
    In principle, this is usually the case, no one needs escalation, but the latent phase suits everyone. After all, it’s so convenient, in which case to judge the blame on the other side. So we get a vicious circle, when each side determines its hostile actions by the same actions of the other. Alas, until they themselves decide that they don’t need any intervention here, this conflict has become too personal.
    On the other hand, the post-war experience of the USSR shows that such a split between nationalities can be overcome if there is a desire for leadership and the right approach to this.
  22. the finish
    the finish 14 July 2020 13: 37
    +1
    The author all tried to write objectively, but confused a little. The July 12 shooting occurred very far away from the security belt, on the very border of Armenia and Azerbaijan.
    1. domokl
      14 July 2020 19: 49
      0
      Quote: finish
      but a little confused.

      Take a closer look at the article ... The shooting was not on the demarcation line, but on the Azerbaijani-Armenian border ...
      1. the finish
        the finish 14 July 2020 20: 37
        0
        From the article.
        I will give readers two reports from two defense ministries about what happened at noon on July 12 near Nagorno-Karabakh, right in the very security belt that I wrote about above.
  23. KURT330
    KURT330 14 July 2020 14: 03
    -4
    [/ quote] It was at this time that the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh was decided. The territory came under the control of Baku, [quote]

    But there is no need to lie, she did not "cross", but "WAS LEFT IN THE Azerbaijan SSR"
    1. domokl
      14 July 2020 19: 51
      -3
      Quote: KURT330
      But do not lie,

      Here I agree with you. Do not lie. Do not consider others unable to read the source.
  24. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 14 July 2020 14: 09
    0
    A bad world is better than a good war.
  25. Mayor lee
    Mayor lee 14 July 2020 16: 28
    -2
    The author spoke about the pogroms in Sumgait, but nothing about the atrocities of Armenian soldiers during the occupation of Nagorno-Karabakh. Can list all war crimes? Alexander Staver, I advise you to carefully study the three-year war of 1992 before writing an article
  26. Farid Alekperov
    Farid Alekperov 14 July 2020 18: 40
    +3
    The author, but it was not so. With a little thought, I came to the conclusion that this was an organized provocation by the Armenians. All the boron cheese started because of the height, which is located on neutral territory, but was controlled by the Azerbaijani troops who set up a post there. They led to the post along which the ill-fated UAZ actually returned. Apparently due to sloppiness, a dulled sense of self-preservation and vigilance, the soldiers guarding the post regularly left him, going down from the heights I don’t know, either for lunch, or for some other reason. The Armenians have long traced this matter and calculated when it will be possible to occupy the heights without a fight - there the distance between the positions of the opposing sides is 100-200 meters. They occupied a height, equipped firing positions and set an ambush. When the UAZ returned, they opened fire on it, most likely on wheels. The calculation was that the soldiers would leave the car and run back and report that the post was captured. And then, when the Azerbaijanis, most likely the platoon that was responsible for the height, went on the attack in order to return it, the Armenians met him from an ambush. And then it went on increasing. In my opinion, while the situation is developing according to the plan of the Armenians. From this point of view, the Armenians also check the reaction of Russia. Like, if you are our allies, then you should help, because the territory of Armenia itself is fired, and not Nagorno-Karabakh. And if Russia does not help, then Pashinyan has additional arguments in favor of a pro-Western policy.
    1. the finish
      the finish 14 July 2020 20: 50
      0
      And why was it necessary to aggravate and provoke equipping a post at the neutral of state borders? And how did the general and the colonel die?
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 14 July 2020 21: 02
      -1
      Quote: Farid Alekperov
      And, if Russia does not help, then Pashinyan has additional arguments in favor of a pro-Western policy.

      Yes, for God's sake, let him do what he wants, they want NATO, well, let them go to NATO ...
  27. wmn5500
    wmn5500 14 July 2020 21: 50
    -1
    Here is a link to a video from Armenians https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjb9ERznVWM&feature=youtu.be.
    Is it really not visible that the post on which the UAZ remake is so confidently going! Is it really not clear that the appearance of the post there was a provocation of the Armenian side, and for those sitting in the UAZ it was a complete surprise. Look at the road and where it goes from right to the front of this post, and the whole road is packed without even a hint of overgrowth, so this road is actively being exploited. Now look at the hands in red work gloves, at the empty tires not covered with earth or stones in a hurry! I think the conclusion is obvious here! The Armenian side has put forward a new post on the territory of Azerbaijan! Therefore, before writing your vision of the situation, it would be worthwhile to carefully study the materials. It is clear that the case with UAZ-m is a clear provocation of the Armenian side !!!
    1. Farid Alekperov
      Farid Alekperov 14 July 2020 22: 57
      +1
      Yes, it can be too. Armenians in the internet veiledly boasted that the beginning of their 3rd corps was actively pursuing a digging policy towards Azerbaijani positions. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4266966033343965&set=a.456496961057577&type=3&theater
  28. Tank hard
    Tank hard 14 July 2020 22: 49
    0
    Paradoxical as it may seem, but, in my opinion, the shooting must be stopped, the dead should be buried. Send the wounded for treatment. And then take politicians by the throat and call on them to resolve the Karabakh issue peacefully. And who is “the most-most Armenian or Azerbaijani who will never give up the interests of the country”, let them go to zero and argue with each other through the embrasure of the checkpoint. Stop living on wars already

    Armenia itself digs a grave:

    But here another is interesting, who allowed to demolish a monument to Russian soldiers in Sochi ?!
    1. Ruben
      Ruben 15 July 2020 04: 29
      0
      In fact, Pashinyan is trying to sit on two chairs. He perfectly understands the significance of Russia for Armenia. But at the same time he does not want to spoil relations with Western curators, but not of him, but of parts of his environment with which he is forced to put up. There was no question of withdrawing the Russian military base - this is pure commentator lies. The unrest that was shown in the video report is a reaction in connection with the murder of an Armenian family by an unhealthy Russian soldier, conscript Permyakov.
      https://www.gazeta.ru/social/2020/01/11/12905150.shtml
      1. Tank hard
        Tank hard 15 July 2020 10: 55
        0
        Quote: Ruben
        In fact, Pashinyan is trying to sit on two chairs. He perfectly understands the significance of Russia for Armenia. But at the same time he does not want to spoil relations with Western curators, but not of him, but of parts of his environment with which he is forced to put up. There was no question of withdrawing the Russian military base - this is pure commentator lies. The unrest that was shown in the video report is a reaction in connection with the murder of an Armenian family by an unhealthy Russian soldier, conscript Permyakov.
        https://www.gazeta.ru/social/2020/01/11/12905150.shtml

        So what? Is that an excuse? By the way, what about Nikita Belyankin’s killers? Healthy people? Did everyone suffer punishment? Or maybe someone was acquitted?
  29. divanka2021
    divanka2021 15 July 2020 01: 57
    0
    garbage suffer IMHO, what is so valuable in this area? maybe there oil gas diamonds, silicon valley?
  30. Ruben
    Ruben 15 July 2020 04: 11
    +1
    Thanks to Alexander Staver for the article. It is seen that a person is trying to be objective. But he clearly does not know something or simply does not mention it. How, for example, did Karabakh become part of Azerbaijan? By the decision of the Caucasus Bureau of the Central Committee of the RCP on July 5, 1921, the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh with 94% of the Armenian population was included in the Azerbaijan SSR, although the same day the Caucasus Bureau decided the question in favor of Armenia. There is reason to believe that on July 5 the Central Committee adopted a new resolution under the pressure of Stalin, who at that time was the People’s Commissar for Nationalities. And he decided the issue in favor of Azerbaijan, wanting not to spoil relations with Kemalist Turkey. The issue was thus resolved for foreign policy reasons and was absolutely unfair. Therefore, he smoldered for so much time, turning with the collapse of the USSR into a stumbling block in relations between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
    1. Butchcassidy
      Butchcassidy 15 July 2020 09: 37
      +1
      It would seem, what does Turkey have to do with it?)) But only one who does not know history can raise the question. Az D.R., in principle, arose on the bayonets of the Turkish general Nuri Pasha - never before 1918 the territory now occupied by Azerbaijan did not exist within those borders and was never called Azerbaijan. And here the author pours us about the centuries that Azerbaijanis supposedly lived in Karabakh. Oi-vei, a people about which Soviet historiography did not know anything until the mid-1930s, supposedly lived somewhere for a century and claims to be something there. Do not make me laugh. And learn the materiel - this is to the author of the article A. Staver.

      There are still a lot of factual errors, misunderstanding and ignorance of history, just writing for a long time.
      1. Farid Alekperov
        Farid Alekperov 15 July 2020 11: 08
        0
        "Oh-vey, people about which Soviet historiography knew nothing until the mid-1930s"
        I wonder how much you can repeat such nonsense about Stalin and the 30s?
        “At the beginning of the 25th century, the generally accepted term“ Asians ”was used in acts and Russian documents at that time, followed by the name“ Muslims. ”[29] After the South Caucasus became part of the Russian Empire, the Russian authorities, which traditionally called All Turkic peoples as Tatars began to call Azerbaijanis Caucasian, Azeri [30] or Aderbeydzhan Tatars [31] to distinguish them from other Turkic peoples.The name itself is a distortion from Atropatena, a province of ancient Iran [XNUMX].

        The ethnonym "Azerbaijanis" in various forms has been used in academic literature since the end of the 1898th century. In the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Brockhaus and Efron alone, we find several such forms. So in the article “Persians” (T.XXIII, 32) ESBE called the Azerbaijanis “Azerbaijanis” [1901], and in the article “Türks” (T.XXXIV, 33) - Iranian-type Turks - “Persian and Caucasian Aderbeydians” [1901] . In another article - “Turkic-Tatars” (T.XXXIV, 34), the ESBE calls Azerbaijanis “Azerbaijani Tatars”, noting that a number of scholars (in particular, Yadrintsev, Kharuzin, Chantre) proposed calling the Azerbaijani Tatars “Azerbaijanis”, but at that time it had not yet taken root [XNUMX].
        In the Russian Encyclopedia (1911) three variants of designation are given: "Aderbeydzhan Tatars", "Aderbeydzhans" and "Transcaucasian Tatars" [36]. French anthropologist and ethnographer Joseph Deniker, in his work, published in 1900, called Azerbaijanis "Ad-Azerbaijanis, Turkic-speaking Iranians of the Caucasus and Persia" [37]. In the 1st edition of the "Encyclopedia of Islam", in the article "Karabakh" (Ḳara-Bāg̲h̲) by the French orientalist Clement Yuar [fr], half of the population was indicated as "Adarbaidzhans" (Ād̲h̲arbaid̲j̲ānī) [38]. "
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%86%D1%8B
    2. Farid Alekperov
      Farid Alekperov 15 July 2020 10: 50
      -1
      Again a veiled lie. When the Bolsheviks came here, the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh was controlled by the Azerbaijanis. And therefore, in the decision of the Caucasus Bureau, it is written in black and white to leave !!! Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of Azerbaijan on the basis of autonomy, and not "transfer". Stalin in 21 had the same vote as all the other participants in the meeting, and just at the 1st meeting he voted for the transfer of Karabakh to Armenia. The territory of Karabakh, geographically, from the point of view of economics, management of the economy has always been closely connected with Azerbaijan, and not with Armenia, to which one narrow Lachin road leads.
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. Free wind
    Free wind 16 July 2020 05: 11
    0
    Azerbaijanis want revenge, Armenians - "we can repeat it." Some will be revanchised, some will be repeated.
  33. Maximilian37
    Maximilian37 16 July 2020 15: 10
    0
    Here everything will not be solved quickly, decades must pass before the younger generation understands, if the older generation naturally teaches them that there is no way out to fight. I have an Azerbaijani friend who was born in the early 90s, you have to see his eyes when we touch on this topic. He was taught in such a way from birth that an Armenian is an enemy, in kindergarten, at school, in the family, on the street, on TV. I think it's the same in Armenia. He does not call openly, but one can feel how he "carefully begins to choose his words." He spoke proudly about the film, which is in every Azerbaijani family, about the Armenian genocide (I do not remember the name). Something like this.
  34. Bob garnuh
    Bob garnuh 19 July 2020 10: 19
    +1
    Gorbachev said the same thing,
    Now the question is: did the Armenians also cut off General Tsitsianov's head?
  35. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 25 July 2020 03: 16
    +1
    I read it with interest, but not because of the content, but because of our eternal attack on the same rake ...
    First, you need to know the history. To our regret, it was misinterpreted by the Soviet period both earlier and later, mockery of our own history is our national tradition.
    You need to understand one simple fact - the Armenians owe us their statehood. Yes, yes, it is to us, that is, the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union and the stub that is now left of everything, alas, we squandered much of the sweat and blood of our ancestors' generations.
    It was the Russian Empire, in the course of its expansion, that conquered the northern part of Azerbaijan from Persia, from that very Persia, which for several centuries was ruled by the dynasties of the Eastern Turks, who were called Azerbaijanis from the light hand of Stalin, and earlier in the Russian Empire were called the Transcaucasian Tatars. Moreover, it did not conquer the largest part of Azerbaijan, most of it, the southern part, remained part of Persia, I repeat that Persia, which was ruled by these same Azerbaijanis. For those who do not know, despite the fact that in Persia the official language was Persian, aka Farsi, the court was Azerbaijani. For those who do not know, the current de facto head of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Khameneni, in our version, who do you think is by nationality? ... is an Azerbaijani. This Ayatollah and his fellow tribesmen, who now make up almost half of the population of Iran, hold many of the highest posts in the Islamic republic.
    I think, unfortunately for our "grief analysts" the above news ...
    Now you can imagine the situation, we have won back from Persia, in which another Azerbaijani dynasty is in power, not anyhow, but Northern Azerbaijan, whose natives are at her court, in her army, etc. And by the way, the northern lands of Azerbaijan that passed to us were one of the richest lands in Azerbaijan in general, and in many ways, from the fertility of lands, resources, to culture and history. Plus, one more problem - unlike other Muslims in Russia, the Eastern Turks, they are Transcaucasian Tatars, they are Azerbaijanis, profess Shiite Islam for the most part, and the base of this trend in Islam was and is Persia, now Iran ... And this is a very big problem, given that the main centers of influence remained in Persia. Whoever did not even know this, then in the light of the recent events in the Middle East, putting together the picture, he will understand what I am writing about - Shiism is an eternal underground and secret organizations in Islam from the moment this trend emerged and formed.
    How do you order to control this part of the new lands of the Empire, taking into account the above? And all of Transcaucasia, or as it is customary to call it with the light hand of the West, the South Caucasus, in the west of which there are only a few Orthodox Georgians, and a handful of Orthodox Albanians in Northern Azerbaijan itself, went to us.
    There was no other way out but to dilute the local population with a population loyal to us, the few Cossack villages founded along the border with Persia were clearly insufficient. A cry was thrown to the Christians of Persia, Turkey, the states of the Middle East with a proposal for resettlement, only the Armenians responded, to which there were a number of prerequisites. First of all, these are the shrines of the Armenian Equal-to-the-Apostolic Church transported in due time from Cilicia to Transcaucasia. Plus, the fact that the Armenian Church, being the church of one nation, had and has a huge influence on the Armenians played a big role, therefore the agreements of the Armenian Catholicos with the leadership and representatives of the Empire were quickly implemented, especially since the Armenians ALREADY were in the Russian Empire and more than once served her. This was also facilitated by Armenian nationalism and Armenian ambitions. The Armenians not only moved to new lands, but, as it were now, invested huge sums, both in the resettlement process and in the economy of the new lands, while this, against the background of the flight to Persia - South Azerbaijan, of many of the elites of the local Eastern Turks, led to displacement in a number of regions of Transcaucasia of those who remained not only from trade, but also from lands in general. Unfortunately, other Christians were not so organized. Thus, in the southern belt, a rather large stratum of Christians was gradually formed. As a recognition of the role of the Armenian Equal-to-the-Apostolic Church, the Orthodox churches of one of the oldest Orthodox churches, the Albanian, were transferred to it. The latter is also an important detail, all those in Transcaucasia that are now presented as antiquity, the Armenians also owe us.
    Armenians moved to the entire territory of Transcaucasia, and there was no talk of any Armenia or Karabakh there, all of these were the khanates of the Eastern Turks and Azerbaijanis. But for example, in the same Karabakh, there was a fairly significant community of Albanians, many temples and churches of the Albanian Orthodox Church.
    Secondly, Armenia owes its appearance in Transcaucasia as a state, on the one hand, to the disintegration of the Russian Empire, and on the other hand, to the formation of the USSR. For the first time, Armenia took shape and appeared in Transcaucasia only when power was divided and Transcaucasia was divided into three mini-states - Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia. At the same time, the conflict over Karabakh occurred between the eastern Turks and the Armenians already then. The few relatively Azeri Turks, the Armenians, being more organized at the expense of the same Church and nationalism (Dashnaktsutyun), managed to quickly create multiple detachments and a kind of army, marched with fire and sword throughout present-day Azerbaijan, reaching practically the borders with the RSFSR in the Derbent region , the local Turks were rescued then by Turkey, which sent an expeditionary corps to the Transcaucasus, otherwise everything would have ended very, very badly for them.
    Thirdly, the creation of the USSR, the Armenians significantly represented among the revolutionaries, the history of the Union, have already led to the consolidation of the statehood of Armenia through the status of the Armenian SSR and its borders. Despite all the slogans about the Soviet man, the man of new thinking, nationalism did not disappear anywhere, and the resettlement of Armenians to the Armenian SSR and the USSR continued until the 60s. It will backfire on us with the first terrorist attacks in the Moscow metro, and explosions in shops.
    Fourth, the collapse of the USSR has already led to the formation of a sovereign state of Armenia, and we have become the only guarantor of its existence as such. Without our help, Armenia could neither fight with Azerbaijan, nor survive later. The Armenians now accuse us of almost occupation, while domestic companies, at the expense and to the detriment of the domestic consumer, have restored the fuel and energy complex of Armenia, railways, and infrastructure. During the short period that Armenia began to sail freely without us, in Yerevan apartments in high-rise buildings were heated with wood, cutting down all the trees in city parks. Only, for example, the restoration and launch of nuclear power plants by our Rosatom has allowed Armenia to meet most of its electricity needs, to launch the industry and, as a result, the economy.
    Nobody is asking now the question whether the Armenians themselves could have started the nuclear power plant and operated it, restored the destroyed and plundered fuel and energy complex (fuel and energy complex), etc. But at the suggestion of new people in power, Soros' fosterlings, we are accused of occupation, our flag is being burned in the square, our embassy is being thrown with trifles, and they are walking at rallies with posters “Russia get out!”. The Armenians were well processed and blown into the ears, it does not reach the duped that if it were not for our border guards, if it were not for our base, they would have to guard the border with Iran, Azerbaijan and Turkey themselves, keep troops inside the country - now the question is how they could do this to deploy almost equal number of bayonets against Azerbaijanis in Karabakh? After all, in fact, most of their armed forces are deployed there, I will note a small country with great ambitions and a catastrophic demographic situation, because the population RUNS wherever they look.
    Fifthly, despite all the lack of principle, the Soros foster-child Pashinyan cannot risk Karabakh just for the sake of tearing Armenia away from us, plus the CSTO mechanisms do not work there at all, from the word in any way. Having embarked on a provocation on a section of the state border between Armenia and Azerbaijan, far from Karabakh, Pashinyan and his puppeteers counted, through Azerbaijan's retaliatory strikes, to arrange a small war with losses for the Armenian Armed Forces tangible enough to compromise us, as an ally, the very idea of ​​compromising the CSTO and the TS.
    For those who again do not know or are "modestly silent" - the Armenians have long and closely participated in NATO programs, by the way, during one of these, an Azerbaijani officer hacked an officer of the Armenian Armed Forces with an ax, about which the Armenians made noise all over the world and here too. .. But for some reason it did not occur to anyone in our head to ask, what are the officers of the Armed Forces of our ally doing and what have they lost, whom we teach FREE OF CHARGE in our schools, at NATO courses? What in NATO have the officers of the armed forces of the CSTO member country forgotten? ... I asked - I was told that it was only preparation for joint peacekeeping operations with ... NATO. And what about all the countries that participate with the UN mandate and under the auspices of the NATO training programs? There was silence in response. Well, here's the one who was hacked to death by the Azerbaijani, he was in the NATO language courses in Hungary, WHY? Are we badly preparing military translators? - no one seems to have complained ... And about the peacekeeping operations, it reminded me very much of one zhovto-blakitnaya country, where all prepared "for joint peacekeeping operations with NATO" then quickly and quickly poured and poured blood in the Donbas. Remember "Nadia of the Ukrainian People" - also a training school for joint peacekeeping operations with NATO. And now remember the servicemen of WHAT division of the Armed Forces of Armenia, despite the fact that the army is out of politics everywhere, in any country, kicked out and went with the protesters for the Soros fosterling Pashinyan? - I will remind the peacekeeping battalion of the Armed Forces of Armenia, just prepared according to NATO programs for "joint peacekeeping operations" ...
  36. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 25 July 2020 04: 02
    +1
    You need to understand that we are not just a guarantor of the existence of Armenia in general, this is OUR LAND, conquered by our ancestors and where we resettled Christians counting on their loyalty.
    Be it Yerevan or Armavir, or the suburbs of modern Rostov-on-Don, or the village of Stavropol, our ancestors poured blood on these lands, we moved here those who must behave DEEPLY and look after our interests, and not twist their tail. My words are not nationalism, not xenophobia, but simply fact.

    We are now like intoxicated listening about some percentage of some groups there or there, how many and where cops and what nationality was - HERESY and bananas in our ears. Tomorrow they will begin to tell us about interest in Armavir or in Rostov, or in KavminVody, or in Moscow, so what? ...

    We are now indignant about Bandera and Shukhnevich, but for a long time and modestly we were silent about Garegin Nzhdeh, and even now it seems as though modestly looking down ... Think about the monument to Bandera or Shukhnevich in Armavir, how is that ?! But a monument to another fascist henchman, Nzhdeh, is normal. We are so sensitive, we were afraid to offend the feelings of fascist nationalists, what kind we are ... in one zhovto-blakitnaya we have already played out.

    Well, who are my peers, who are "made in the USSR" - how do you imagine in the Soviet Union the illegal exhumation of the corpse of a criminal who was imprisoned for cooperation with the Nazis and who died in prison. And then the transportation of this corpse through the entire European part of the USSR, Transcaucasia. And then the dismemberment and burial of the "national hero" in different parts of the Armenian SSR by the fascist Nazis, who, it seems, did not seem to exist? ... Well, they walk with flags, horns and drums, and for NOT ONE YEAR, around the empty grave of their hero, Well, what's wrong with that ... Only then you shouldn't be surprised at the torchlight processions in Kiev, and tomorrow in Yerevan.

    And let me remind you once again, before they started to blow up the tangerine merchants, they staged a terrorist attack on us, in the capital, in Moscow. On January 8, 1977, three explosions in a row, the first in a subway car, on the stretch between Izmailovskaya and Pervomayskaya, the second and third in stores on Bolshaya Lubyanka and Nikolskaya. Who are the authors? - those who did not seem to exist, fascist nationalists, well, this is for us, and there they are now patriots and loyal sons of the Motherland, like Nzhdeh.
    Who does not know, until the end of the 60s, we resettled Armenians, including from the Middle East, giving them a chance on the lands we conquered to live a safe life, to preserve their culture, faith, language, and customs. What do we see in response now?

    We are stepping on the same rake, but if in the case of the Ukrainians it is probably not so sensitive somewhere else, then in the case of such behavior in Armenia it is simply black ingratitude.

    I will say to myself, yes I am not delighted with our prince Red Sun, but I understand that the mafia of the Kocharyans and Sarkisians got the people out, since ours put them there in their own image and likeness, and it is understandable to the fool that the story is the same as with Yanyk. That there will be discontent among the population and that this discontent will be straddled by external forces and directed in their own interests, and our Sun and his comrades will click his beak on which he will receive. But there must be some kind of genetic memory or something, we gave so much and did so much, but Sargsyan got his comrades and sat in their livers, but to kick Russia, to which, like no one in the former Russian Empire and the USSR, literally owes EVERYTHING is the height of ingratitude, Ukrainians and then the angels are in this background.
  37. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 25 July 2020 16: 21
    +1
    Quote: Karenius
    Oh, how much bukoff !!! But all this confusion will have to be answered, since there is a claim to analytics ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    It was the Russian Empire, in the course of its expansion, that conquered the northern part of Azerbaijan from Persia, from that very Persia, which for several centuries was ruled by the dynasties of the Eastern Turks, who were called Azerbaijanis from the light hand of Stalin, and earlier in the Russian Empire were called the Transcaucasian Tatars.

    Nominally Turks ruled for several centuries, but they worked for the Persian component of the country ... A striking example is Nadir Shah ... It was he who restored the Armenian melikoms (principalities) on the territory of Karabakh ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    then in the light of the recent events in the Middle East, adding up the picture, he will understand what I am writing about - Shiism is an eternal underground and secret organizations in Islam since the emergence and formation of this trend.

    It can be said that the Shiism of the Azeri Turks is over: for Pan-Turkism, Sunnism is needed, and this is pretending to be a reality.
    Quote: Sarkazm
    As recognition of the role of the Armenian Equal-to-the-Apostolic Church, the Orthodox churches of one of the oldest Orthodox churches, the Albanian, were transferred to it. The latter is also an important detail, all those in Transcaucasia that are now presented as antiquity, the Armenians also owe us.

    And if we go back 1000+ years ago, then we read from our medieval scientist Anania Shirakatsi that the Caucasian Albanians conquered the Armenian provinces (Utik and more) ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    ... Azerbaijanis, the Armenians, being more organized at the expense of the same Church and nationalism (Dashnaktsutyun), managed to quickly create multiple detachments and a kind of army, marched with fire and sword throughout present-day Azerbaijan, reaching almost the borders with the RSFSR in the Derbent region, local The Turks were then rescued by Turkey, which sent an expeditionary corps to the Transcaucasus, otherwise everything would have ended very, very badly for them.

    But it's not worth lying ... It was the Bolsheviks who then decided to slaughter the entire Turkic population near Baku, but the Zionist elite of the Dashnaks opposed this (for such cases, they created this party), and according to Shaan Natalie, written in the book (he later led the operation "Nemesis"), the Dashnak troops settled the Turks in empty barracks and put up protection, and in the city they stood between the warring Bolsheviks and Turks ... Then the Turks thanked them for this ... But only then ... when the Turkish troops appeared in Baku, They also organized the pogroms ... By the way, the judo-Bolsheviks of Moscow organized the surrender of Baku, for which they ordered Shaumyan to disband the Armenian armed formations ... Why did they do it - of course, they cleared Baku of the Armenian population loyal to the Russians ... By the way, before that Shahumyan wrote to Lenin that the easiest way of Bolshevization in the region ... is precisely through the Armenian-Muslim massacre ...
    I will add here, as regards the orientation towards the British ... The British participated in the defense of Baku from the Turkish troops, but they tried to escape at the first danger ... Then our troops directed their guns at the British ships, forcing their troops to return to the battlefield. It didn’t help - after a few days they still fumbled ...
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Despite all the slogans about the Soviet man, the man of new thinking, nationalism did not disappear anywhere, and the resettlement of Armenians to the Armenian SSR and the USSR continued until the 60s. It will backfire on us with the first terrorist attacks in the Moscow metro, and explosions in shops.

    The aucnol was much harder for us ... The Judo-Bolshevik RSFSR gave our Kars lands to the Turks ... Armed Kemal, which is why we lost Cilicia ... In the sale of Armenian land to the Turks, the Bolsheviks and France worked for a couple, who paid the Turks for loyalty...
    Somewhere I already heard ...


    So I had to spend on this all the interweaving of lies and Armenians, and the Turks, quite a lot of time and not only out of curiosity, but because in the region where there are a lot of Armenians and I often have to listen that we owe them all.
    Although I will repeat it was we who defended the Armenians ALL history, in return counting on loyalty not in the most friendly region to us AT THAT MOMENT I explained the reasons above. Now Azerbaijan owes its sovereignty to us as well as Armenia, which also owes its emergence. Why and Azerbaijan - yes, because with the collapse of the USSR, that is, in fact, the Russian Empire, it automatically went back to the bosom of Persia, now Iran. And if not for us, then Iran would return its lost territories, uniting Azerbaijan.

    You started telling me about the loss of Cilicia and blah blah - DO NOT confuse the territory where real Armenia existed for a really short period, which was founded after the exodus of Armenians from the Balkans to the Middle East, with those territories where Armenians were settled by certain Empires, for example Byzantine or Russian, and taking it under their protection - THESE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS. They apparently forgot about their history in the Byzantine Empire.

    Well, we settled the mountain Armenians in Armavir, but Armavir is a Russian city, not Armenia, and it never was, this is the land we conquered. We did not have enough Cossacks at that time, the process of resettling the peasants was also long, we settled, gave and created conditions, this is not the merit of the Armenian people. Since the time when Byzantium sank into oblivion, it was the rebellious Russian Empire that finally defended the Armenians and resettled them giving fertile lands, giving them the opportunity to trade, engage in crafts, and preserve their faith. Regarding the latter, note the Russian Empire NEVER encroached on the Armenian Church and faith. It was when they were anathematized for the case, the temples of the Orthodox Albanian Church that had once been transferred were taken away, it was like this and it was for the cause when, instead of gratitude and loyalty, the nationalists raised their heads, made attempts, committed lawlessness and the Armenian Church took part in this.

    Well, you need to understand. If tomorrow someone appoints, well, for example, the governor of the Krasnodar Territory Galitsky (maiden name Harutyunyan, ex-owner of Magnit, owner of FC and Krasnodar stadium), an Armenian by nationality, and the governor is the king of the local spill, it will not mean at all, that the Kuban became your melikomstvo and Tsar Vladimir the Red Sun, they say, recognized this and the Kuban part of the invented “Great Armenia.” Regarding the latter, one of the small peoples of the Middle East is generally nonsense, for some reason he speaks of some kind of “Great” country, and even now , when they scattered around the world and multiplied, the number of this people will not be enough for such a "Great" state.

    Fortunately for me, I speak a little English, understandably somewhere I use an electronic translator, but this is enough to read European or American historians, some of whom are Armenians, to draw conclusions about the true picture of things and the processes that took place.
    Do not burden us with this nonsense with which all kinds of Hitlers and Goebbels have intoxicated their people, it will not end well, greater and more powerful nations came to collapse.
    What do you need now, what is missing ?! You lost your state and scattered throughout the Middle East, we resettled you, collected you, made it possible to create a state, on those lands that we annexed, and which our soldiers poured with sweat and blood, you would never get a hundred thousand from Persia yourself. , nor from the Ottoman Empire, especially since this land has never belonged to your once-existing state for a short period.
  38. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 25 July 2020 16: 22
    +1
    We are now protecting, providing, training, and we must arm you, what are you still unhappy with? That sitting, not only in Armenia, but in Russia, without being infringed in anything, they are again dissatisfied, they say, Nzhdeh was not allowed to put a monument to them and arrange a Sabbath on his once former grave.
    What was this Zatikyan and his accomplices unhappy with who killed innocent people in Moscow ?! What were your nationalists dissatisfied with having sold to the West and starting a Sabbath around Karabakh, stabbing a knife in the back in the USSR, read the Russian Empire, which did so much for you? In Armenia, the outflow of the population and the demographic crisis has taken on catastrophic proportions, we support you, we do not give you offense, well, live within the borders of the state that was given to you on a silver platter, do not expose us, do not go against our interests, and even more so do not spit on us. face.
    What kind of nonsense about Karabakh melikstva, etc.? At least you can keep the population in Armenia, the more you are lucky your state is recognized not only by us, you FINALLY have your own national state - what we do not value, having lost crying ... You can lose EVERYTHING, remember your real history and draw conclusions, otherwise again you will lose the state and statehood and the camp will disperse around the neighborhood.
    The fact that the Azerbaijani tsar, having gathered power, does not claim either Yerevan or other territories of modern Armenia, and sings from the rostrum only about "the second Armenian state in the Azerbaijani lands" - believe me, it is not your merit in this and not your certain might and its military spirit stop and scare.
    Do not stop your evil heads in anti-Russian exercises and antics, do not stop burning our flags and raving under the walls of our embassy, ​​do not sit on the ass, we do not need to do anything - the relations between our and your peoples will simply be ruined.
    And you just need to close your eyes literally for a moment or turn away ... and that's it, your question will be resolved, or at least they will take care of your upbringing. So do not be dashing while it is quiet, appreciate what you have, build and strengthen your state - you wanted it, you dreamed about it - we gave it to you, presented it. Appreciate this and remember to the seventh generation, NOBODY and NEVER made ANY people such a gift.
  39. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 25 July 2020 21: 10
    +1
    Quote: Karenius
    We'll have to further clarify ...
    Leave Nzhde behind !!! It's not crazy to a folk like Masha Zakharova and the Company !!! I repeat ... When in 1920 the local Zionist Dashnak government fired 120+ Russian officers from the army (there were 300 in total), they were admitted to the army of Garegin Nzhde to fight in Mountainous Armenia ... From there, such significant victories against the Turkish Bolshevik tandem ...
    We listened to such explanations for a long time and clapped their ears about Bendera and Shushkhevych, about the Baltic SS and other bedding - all these scum were condemned by both the international tribunal and the Soviet court.
    Maria Zakharova and her boss relate more to your people, well, this is so by the way.

    Quote: Karenius
    I will not say anything about Zatikyan and his accomplices, since I do not accept his actions ...
    Yah! Only the famous words of Stanislavsky come to mind ...
    And how do you feel about the fact that the referendum on the preservation of the USSR was boycotted in Armenia, how do you feel about the fact that those walking around in heroes or honored, like Zatikyan and his accomplices, killed our soldiers and officers. How can you additionally explain who killed the officers and soldiers of the Sofrinsky brigade in Karabakh, are they really tangerine traders ?! ...

    Such rhyming should be nipped in the bud, and you, not us. Because this is primarily in the interests of your people.

    About "the army of Garegin Nzhdeh in Mountainous Armenia", it's like about a submarine in the steppes of Ukraine - I'm not trying to offend or scoff at you, but write healthy and adult things, not childish ones. What kind of army ?! - GANGs of nationalists, the same gangs shot Russian boys of military personnel in Karabakh, when the Union had not collapsed yet (!!!) What kind of army could the Armenian SSR have then ?! - there were only GANGs of bearded scum who killed from the undercover, call a spade a spade. The same gangs killed, including Armenians, not only Azerbaijanis or servicemen and policemen, in order to fan the fire and the conflict, your eyes will open someday, but better sooner rather than later, I repeat, and we do not need to step on the same same rake.
    "mountainous Armenia", knowing the history or claiming it, you can name the geographical coordinates of the capital of that very Armenia, which the Armenians lost, having lost both statehood and territory, and the most interesting thing is to name the distance from that former capital to the present, Yerevan, how many thousand .km?

    Again. Where to grab a piece that you cannot digest, why ?! I repeat, we gave you, we gave you statehood, which you yourself and shattered, you have a sovereign state within the borders that are recognized by most of the countries of the world and even your current enemy, what else do you need? ...
    Instead of solving the problem of the flight of your population, creating conditions for it, creating conditions for migration and an influx of population, including from Georgia, including the remnants of the same Karabakh, even from Russia, to develop the economy, because I repeat, we have restored ALL infrastructure, and to the detriment of their regions, many only have to dream about it, what are you doing?

    You are telling me here about some Masons, Turan belts (as I understand this about Pan-Turkism) - guys, we annexed this territory, this territory lies in the zone of our national interests, we moved you there diluting the local Muslim population, for the reasons explained above ... Sit, live, build your state, since it happened so that there was a period of the collapse of the Empire, create, be fruitful and heal, and we will protect you and guarantee your statehood. BUT...
    DON'T climb where it is not your business, we did not authorize you to solve the problems of Turanian belts, etc., well, no offense, your entire academy of sciences, God forbid, to be equal to our supernumerary department, we gave you statehood, a second chance in stories, first you rocked, but you still undertake to teach us, and correct us, they say we are stupid, they say we do not know what we need and what is right. We have our own interests in Azerbaijan and through its territory, these are our interests, these are the interests of RUSSIA, and it is not proper for Armenia to give advice. After all, we have NEVER humiliated the feelings of Armenians, we have always defended, and we are all very polite, politically correct became and sometimes hesitate to say - hey, snub-nosed lads, we gave you EVERYTHING, the earth under your feet, the sky over your head, cowards on you and those for our count, so live and rejoice and know your place. Geopolitics, Masons, Turans, this is not your business, the big uncle will figure it out himself, they would be smarter, they would be in the place of the big uncle, and not vice versa. Everything seems to be fair, isn't it? And what is the answer to us? - start to twist the ass.
    Soviet court, like it, read Russian, said - Nzhdeh scum, he should sit. Everything, DOT. If you want to have your own independent and dissenting opinion, and to lecture us, test our patience, consider yourself smarter - NO PROBLEMS. Once again, I ask you how many thousand kilometers from Yerevan to the capital of the very Armenia that you missed? - get together, forward and with music, and prove and show the world your "spirit, will and greatness." And we can take under protection and settle in Transcaucasia another Christian people whose fate is not sweeter in the Middle East, perhaps they will be more grateful, or at least then they will not begin to teach us wisdom.

    We did not allow you to pull the Azeris by the balls, to fire on their territory from our territory, you are in the CSTO, we are, in fact, the CSTO, I hope we will not make each other laugh about Kazakhstan, Belarus and Kyrgyzstan. Where did you go, who gave you permission? We didn’t put you on our knees and didn’t climb under our skirts, we were sharing and sharing everything brotherly, for now, but you wanted to see the old impotent Soros as a favorite, did you want cookies from Nulad's crotch? Go ahead, what are the problems. Only at first home, to that very Armenia, and with this we will figure it out and give the name in color. It's time to start calling a spade a spade, the Americans don't stand on ceremony as we do, they got it out of their pants, put it on the table - chupa chups, the objection that this is not it is not accepted, but we are all persuading. We closed this whole Soros shop at home, if you are so smart that you think you can give us advice, you should have noticed and covered up Soros and co, when we were just thinking about it. Here are your counterparts, Azerbaijanis, we started and they are right there, but what are you?

    And I repeat, pouring reproaches about us, they say, you forgot about us, they say in those years or in these years, they say you sold weapons to Azerbaijanis - this is our business, we did not ask you and this is not your business at all, we told you we are protecting you, everything is DOT.

    About Grachev's trip to Turkey during Lobov's time - the same story. You got into Nakhichevan, who gave you permission? We weren't allowed. As a result, the Turks fired artillery from their side, tell me wrong? As a result, hundreds of Iranians, read Azerbaijanis, appeared at night in their trenches, only that the elder Aliyev came to power there, Nakhichevan did not leave us, and because of you. Let me remind you once again, de facto, albeit not de jure, but this is our territory, we annexed it with the sweat and blood of our soldiers, and almost lost it. Who do you think you are? What can you compete with Persia or Turkey, sorry, these are not fairy tales to write about "Great Armenia", you are dust in front of them both in fact and historically. And we did not allow you to arrange a Sabbath, as a result of which they could have a chance to climb into these territories. But now you are writing fairy tales about the Turans and other Masons. Once again - do not meddle in your own business, know your place, the big uncle will decide what, how and when to do it.
  40. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 26 July 2020 04: 20
    +1
    Quote: Karenius
    You can also settle non-Christian people ... We also went through this ... A hundred years ago, the Emperor promised us both land and independence, asking only not to repeat the Bulgarian scenario. But the generals opposed, and decided to take not the Armenians, but the Kurds as their allies ... Because of this, such a great genocide became possible ...
    .....
    I repeat ... A hundred years ago, Big Uncle was turned into a Big Aunt, and she left here ... And we have no right to remain one on one against Turkey again ... My personal opinion is that both the Russian Federation and the United States are colonies of Israel, and we need to have the Chinese as allies in reserve - they definitely do not need Turan ... And we remember that the territory of Lachin, for example, was specially populated by Kurds in order to dissect the Armenians ... If Russia is not interested,
    I will try to explain on the fingers.
    I became the owner of a multi-apartment and multi-entrance residential building. From my own considerations, I allocated the homeless, who wandered in a camp throughout the Middle East, to the Armenians ONE apartment, but a good, multi-room, spacious one.
    As I see it, I have the right to expect gratitude from people who have found a roof over their heads, but what in return?
    Homeless vagabonds have barely got used to starting to claim a couple of entrances in the house, trying to seize them by force. It was while I, being the owner, decided to whom and what I would allocate.
    Naturally, such claims of some tenants and their independent actions against the rules established for all tenants do not suit me, to put it mildly. Because each tenant is important to me, I have my own agreements with each of them, each has its own types and plans related to my interests and affairs. But our yesterday's homeless people, having forgotten who is the owner of the house, like an eccentric girl, also reproach me for not indulging their whims and not fulfilling their wishes. Well, the funny thing is that they pretend to have a couple of entrances in which they will simply get lost because they are few in number, and besides, they rock the boat at those of my tenants who are stronger than them and can easily give them a nose or even break their neck.
    Who and where after such behavior I will settle, my business and remind my right. You had to behave yourself ...

    You were given a guarantee from the very beginning that we would not leave you alone with the Ottomans.

    Yes, and from this story, you also need to draw conclusions and not step on the same rake. You served the Ottomans, in their army there were even your officers, that is, you were not their pawns and consumables, and were not impaired in your rights. You wanted a big game, taking advantage of the fact that most of the Ottomans were at the front, you rebelled in their rear, began to build pyramids from their heads, your "army", sorry, but I don't remember another barmaley of the "national hero", went through with fire and sword through the villages and cities of the Ottomans, what did they expect in return? You did not start this in alliance with us, but played a game with the British and remained a loser. What do we have to do with it? Ok, for the sake of our relations, those victims were recognized as genocide, when the Ottomans removed units from the front, defeated your "troops", then evicted you, during which, in a warring country without providing three meals a day to the rebels, you suffered victims.
    History repeats itself by the way. Now we have an undeclared war with the United States and NATO, you are starting to flirt with them, we are about to find ourselves in the position of the fighting Ottomans in the rear, where you rebelled, created treason, and I think the consequences will be the same for your people.

    Quote: Karenius
    You arranged it for us on October 27.10.99, XNUMX ... I say this because I have the right - your judo organized it ... I understand that anthropologically the Khazar Primakov is not Russian, but with the Russian service he removed our patriots from power and opened the way to uncontrolled power hiring the freemasons of Kocharyan, and it was Kocharian and Serge who worked to destroy the Armenian ethnos ...
    Primakov is a Jew, not a Khazar, for which he was honorably thrown from the special services in his time. He perfectly knew Lebanon and the Armenians, which for a long time had Lebanon as their base, and therefore knew the value of the Armenians.
    But according to the events in your parliament, there is an old anecdote about a general whom a drunken lieutenant allegedly shit in his pants.
    There is no need to shift from a sore head to a healthy one, these events are your internal political history, and in the means of struggle you have never been picky and did not see the edges.
    Kocharyan and Sargsyan are your heroes of the Karabakh war, etc., soiled in blood for the very least, I don’t want to bang them a couple of three, not only in parliament, but also in church service was not a problem.
  41. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 26 July 2020 04: 56
    +1
    Quote: Karenius
    Quote: Sarkazm
    As a result, the Turks fired artillery from their side, tell me wrong?

    One of our Chekists told me that we also knocked out Turkish equipment in our land ...
    I talked with your participants in those battles, the Turks began to fire artillery from their side at your units that attacked Nakhichevan in a sector adjacent to Turkey, where they have a piece of a common border. The fact is that according to an agreement between us and the Turks, they could send troops if you would not retreat, having suffered losses and not being able to fight on two fronts. You climbed where you had no right to climb and once again cause us problems with your antics.

    Here are the latest developments.
    It does not reach you that Pashinyan, having played with his owners, has created a most dangerous precedent for you, again, the most dangerous one for you.
    You started hitting Azerbaijanis not from Karabakh, but from your own territory. You are a member of the CSTO, I repeat, the CSTO is us, the extras don't count, you started an adventure not only without our permission, but also against us.
    Azerbaijan showed loyalty to us, it did not respond to you with large-caliber artillery and MLRS strikes, bringing everything to the line when we would have to intervene without wanting to and without having such in our plans.
    But what Baku did, he began to hit your troops pointwise with the help of kamikaze drones that he produces in his jointly with Israel or under a license from the Jews.

    That is, you created the situation with your own hands, you struck from your territory trying to serve Uncle Soros in order to compromise us as your guarantor and ally, Azerbaijan did not follow your lead trying not to spoil relations with us and, as a result, targeted, and selectively struck by goals on the territory of Armenia, that is, on the territory of a member of the CSTO. A precedent was created - strikes against the territory of a CSTO member. What does it threaten you with tomorrow?
    For example. The very same Harop drones that the Azerbaijanis showed in your last skirmish a few years ago are primarily a means of combating air defense systems. Baku has superiority in aviation, especially on the battlefield. They each have a couple of regiments of attack helicopters and attack aircraft, the first are modernized by the Yuarists in Ukraine, plus our new Mi-35, the second is the Scorpion version, at least not inferior to our Su-25SM.
    The main air cover over Karabakh and the territory around it is provided by your air defense systems from the territory of Armenia, it will not be difficult for them to provoke the firing of your air defense systems from the territory of Armenia. In response, they will precisely and selectively, as now, destroy targets on your territory - how to drink it will be air defense systems. There are dozens of UAVs on one MAZ, your air defense will not last long, as a result, their attack aircraft and helicopters will plow and grind hundreds of your fellow tribesmen there.
    And Russia has nothing to do with it, you are the creators of your troubles.
  42. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 26 July 2020 17: 21
    0
    Quote: Karenius
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Here are the latest developments.
    It does not reach you that Pashinyan, having played with his owners, has created a most dangerous precedent for you, again, the most dangerous one for you.

    It does not reach you that the sultan, having the Kremlin kibbutz as his allies, can rattle his weapons in those parts too ... Even a year ago, in 2005 or 2006, a real battle unfolded in the same place ... Then the distances between the trenches were decent ... The Turks went ahead and took a neutral water station ... The commander of our troops there, Onik Gasparyan (today's NGSH) repulsed it with tanks, and went even further ...
    Just there, on the territory of another state, whose borders we recognize, did your tanks and your current chief of the General Staff make?
    You are stepping on the same rake, I repeat, the population from Armenia is scattering, but you also need Karabakh, despite the fact that we have settled you there and on the territory of present-day Armenia.
    You have created a precedent in this too, not recognizing the borders and sovereignty of Azerbaijan in the same Karabakh and trying to start hostilities in Nakhichevan, you yourself make your borders insignificant, the territory that we gave you and you consolidated, managed through changes to realize your dream of acquiring independent and sovereign state. You already have enough, but do not appreciate it and want more, in the end, as I see, for the second time you will lose everything both the Armenian state you dreamed of, and just the territory in the Transcaucasus.
    Forgive me for being straightforward, but I would really care what your counterparts Azerbaijanis will do to you, if not for one BUT.
    How many of you there are still permanent residents in Armenia, not nominal citizens? Million two and a half? If, as a result of some cataclysms, abrupt changes in the geopolitical situation, Azerbaijanis still get a chance to be alone with you, everything will end with the fact that you will not run back either to Iran, let alone to Turkey, and Georgia itself is the size of a microbe. All of you come here to us - Stavropol, Kuban, Don. I have many good acquaintances of quite decent people among the local indigenous people. So even they, the Armenians, are moaning from your visitors, and here the camp is two and a half million, and you obviously won't go to the Far East for a hectare even at gunpoint, at the most it's from us who will go to Moscow.
    This prospect does not make me VERY happy, but it is becoming more and more distinct.

    Thank you for the fairly even and sustained communication here, but even you are amazed by these manic-suicidal moods. I feel sorry for you and your people, you simply did not appreciate, did not understand the value and significance of what we and history gave you. If earlier nationalism and ambitions, the church of one people, etc. allowed you to preserve your identity, not to assimilate, not to dissolve and not disappear like many other peoples who suffered defeat and lost their statehood, then with the acquisition of the state, it was necessary to become more even, the goal was achieved. But you have become slaves to all these qualities and circumstances, and what once saved your people will now destroy you.
    Now, as I understand, you have suffered very large losses, although you claim only four dead and two, if I’m not mistaken, who died in hospitals, while for those losses that the Azerbaijanis admitted, they killed more than a dozen of their servicemen, including senior officers like a general and a colonel. This is the only explanation for this sabbath that they arranged in Moscow and tried in other regions, I have not read it myself, but I heard that in the States and Europe you are also raging, otherwise they would have walked around like a wheel and looked down. It is a pity for yours and theirs who perished, as in our country only the children of simple, not very wealthy people serve, the idea of ​​the Bolsheviks has come true - our armies are workers and peasants. The majors are all your here, having paid off, walk around.

    In this regard, I have only bewilderment and a question that would ask you to ask yourself, and your other fellow countrymen who read us.
    Who gave the right to the citizens of Armenia to attack the citizens of Russia in Russia, even if they were Azerbaijanis by nationality? Why did some Armenians who took our citizenship also take part in this? Love Armenia, patriots - no problem go, live in Armenia, return to its citizenship.
    The hands of any foreigner who raised a hand against a citizen of Russia, regardless of his nationality, should then be removed by a proctologist. It seems that now they are sending a couple of dozen donkeys with a ban on coming to us for several years, but this is not enough. I think that they should have arranged such an exemplary flogging so that for the next couple of generations, they would only go from memories to themselves.
    I'm not cruel, you just have a lot of noise-heads and do not see the edges. Tomorrow, in the mark for your rotten apricots, out of habit, arrange a terrorist attack in our market or in a shop belonging to some Azeri, and there are our families and children. Then, for this, even though we mix it with shit a hundred times, but then we will not return our loved ones ...

    I repeat my opinion, after all, you need to calm down and sit on your bottom, at least from the instinct of self-preservation, to settle the conflict with the Azerbaijanis, not to pull the Georgians with separatism - to live peacefully within your borders and not claim more. Otherwise, everything will end very, very badly, you will repeat what you have passed by stepping on the same rake.

    This is my opinion and my observations, so I see everything from the outside and do not pretend to be the ultimate truth. On this, let me take my leave.
  43. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 27 July 2020 12: 49
    0
    Quote: Karenius
    Yes, I struck you off the list of Jews ... To add to the list of Kipchaks ... And that the character is clearly Khazar ... That you can safely talk nonsense, such as our claims to the Kuban lands, and more ... Well, I see , You are faithful to the precepts of Schneerson ... To stir up anti-Armenian sentiments in the Kuban ... And further ... so that the destruction of the national in Georgia and Armenia Khazaria came to the borders of Turkey ...
    Listen, you call Primakov a Khazar, whom I respect very, very much, and what Kypchaks they brought me into.
    If WE NEED IT, tomorrow, next to the Jewish Autonomous District, an Armenian Autonomous District will be created and we will give Khazaria or some other Kuyaria to go where WE NEED and IN OUR INTERESTS.
    I understand that we are responsible for those we have tamed, but if a tamed one takes on a lot and barks constantly, he is put to sleep and processed into technical fat.

    Once again, I repeat, IT IS NOT YOUR ARMENIAN MIND TO DECIDE FOR US, you were sheltered, you were given land without us, you cannot see even a hundred square meters, you are protected so BE GRATEFUL, and in silence, no one forces you to our hands, feet and other parts of the body kiss, and it is not necessary.

    You don’t understand one simple thing, who are you to assess Primakov ?!
    This is a Russian intelligence officer, diplomat, politician who has done a lot for HIS country, and thanks to his country you live, you have your own state, you are protected, your entire infrastructure is working, you simply have electricity, water and gas in your houses. If, among other things, not Primakov, and Russia were weak, you would not have all this or would have lost in a moment. Think at least sometimes, and do not sprinkle your poison on the nationalists ...
    There are the interests of Russia, the interests of Armenia Yevgeny Maksimovich was not obliged to defend, you need to understand a simple thing, if it was in our interests to level Armenia, he would not do it for a second without hesitation, because he is RUSSIAN or RUSSIAN, whoever likes it, a figure, and not what our errands for your lobby.
  44. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 27 July 2020 16: 12
    0
    Quote: Karenius
    And yes ... Stop showing yourself as a Russian ... Of you, the Khazars are rushing with might and main ...
    Not a Russian or a Khazar, my ancestors are Cossacks, the very ones who, as the Kuban army, fought in Transcaucasia, my great-grandfathers poured blood there, one died there. So this is Russian and my land, but not yours. This is true, by the way.
  45. Sarkazm
    Sarkazm 27 July 2020 16: 34
    0
    Quote: Karenius
    Quote: Sarkazm
    Not Russian and not Khazars, my ancestors are Cossacks,

    I say, the Khazars are rushing ... Probably, these are the words that Trotsky juggled about when he exterminated the Cossacks ...
    However, the tsars also exterminated the Cossacks, but, probably, because those Cossacks (Nekrasovites) lived without thieves' concepts ... And the Russian administration in Transcaucasia carried out the orders of the tsarist court to cultivate Turkic crime, and punished those from the local authorities / chasers who suppressed this very crime ...
    Do you know what's good? We put your and theirs' leaders of local communities in the center of national cultures, they spoke modestly and told all of theirs to sit at the opera level, and that's all.
    If someone turns out to be deaf, just give us a reason. Start a sabbath, and there is a sea of ​​you, there are very few of them, to put it mildly, but in an instant you will all fly out together to your national zoos. And then we will put things in order in the zoos, in both. Is it clear? ...
    Do not test my not the best upbringing and manners. Let's wrap up on this.