In Libya, the risk of an armed clash between Turkey and Egypt is growing

The situation in Libya in early July 2020 remains extremely tense. Field Marshal Khalifa Haftar announced his desire to completely expel all Turkish troops from the country. Meanwhile, hostilities continue in the country, and Turkey is increasing its military presence.

Currently, military operations, according to the pages of the Government of National Accord on social networks, are conducted in the areas of Abu Grain, al-Vishka and Buvayrat al-Hasan. The PNS is also focusing more and more impressive forces in the vicinity of the city of Sirte.

According to resources supporting the Government of Libya’s National Accord Faiz Saraj, Turkey does not exclude the possibility of sending S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems to Libya, the ones that Ankara acquired from Russia with such a scandal and damage to relations with the United States. At the same time, it is unlikely that the Turkish leadership decided on such a provocative step: it is possible to act in Libya with the help of other weapons, but balancing between Russia and the United States is much more important than quarreling with both great powers.

Another thing is if the Egyptian army enters the fighting in Libya. Despite the fact that the Egyptian army may be inferior to the Turkish armed forces in the quality of weapons and personnel training, in the war on Libyan land the Egyptians will have a certain advantage in logistics: they don’t need to send soldiers and equipment by ships, as Turks, but rather cross easily Egyptian-Libyan border by convoys.

One way or another, but Turkey continues to increase its military presence in Libya. The convoys of the Turkish army were spotted while driving in the direction of the al-Vatiyya airbase, which was recently repulsed by the troops of Faiz Saraj from the supporters of Khalifa Haftar. Now, apparently, not even PNS units, but Turkish military personnel will be fixed at the airbase. Only in the last month and a half, the Turkish military aviation made 27 flights to Libya.

Turkish military specialist in Tripoli

Airbus A400M aircraft transporting weapons, equipment and mercenaries recruited in Syrian Idlib to Libyan airfields. In early July, an agreement was signed on military cooperation between Turkey and Libya (PNS), according to which official missions of the Turkish ground forces, air defense, air forces and UAV command are deployed in Libya.

Turkey is deploying its new base on Libyan territory in Al-Vatiyeh, as this place is ideal for hosting the base from a strategic point of view. According to some reports, Turkish MIM-23 Hawk anti-aircraft missile systems were deployed at the air base, which on July 5 became the target of air strikes of aircraft belonging to the United Arab Emirates Air Force.

Columns of Egyptian military equipment

Egypt keeps its troops in full combat readiness, demonstrating a determination to get involved in the Libyan conflict in the event of further vigorous action by the PNS and Turkey. Also, the Egyptian military department announced the holding of land and sea maneuvers "Khasam 2020", the main purpose of which is "the destruction of mercenaries and terrorists on the Libyan border."

However, Turkey has already stated that it will continue to attack Sirte and Al-Jufra, since air strikes were carried out at Al-Vatiyya airbase, leading to the destruction of Turkish anti-aircraft missile systems. In response, Egypt is concentrating an increasing number of troops on the Libyan border.

Thus, the risk of a military clash between Egypt and Turkey on Libyan territory is becoming increasingly tangible. These events make me remember historywhen Turkey and Egypt repeatedly fought.

Comments

[svp67]

You have read the next chapter of the drama "Libya, no one wanted to give in ..." To be continued ...

[Grazdanin]

The next division of the colonies between the European powers is not new.

[Catfish]

The next division of the colonies between the European powers

Is Egypt Already in Europe with Turkey? Abbaldet, but I didn’t know ...

[Free wind]

It happens that here Turkey was also placed in Kazakhstan, in Turkestan.

[Grazdanin]

In general, few people are interested in the opinion of Egypt; Turkey would not have acted without the consent of Britain and Italy. What happens there is basically a showdown of European countries. And yes, Turkey is a European country, territorially it is present in Europe and economic and political ties have been measured for centuries.

[Catfish]

Turkey without the consent of Britain and Italy would not have acted.

Are you serious? Especially in relation to Italy.
Well, and the fact that the Turks are absolute Europeans, no one doubts this, especially after they chopped off a piece of Cyprus from the Greeks, as in Constantinople.
You know, there is an idea, let's chop off the Japanese Hokkaido and immediately become samurai.

[Oquzyurd]

1. Ivan the Terrible took Kazan in 1552
2. The capture of Astrakhan in 1556
3. Mehmed II took Constantinople in 1453
Now explain to the readers the similarities and differences between these three points, and add why, for the third point, you can throw Turks with poop and the other two points with flowers?

[Grazdanin]

all 3 capitals are located in Europe :) before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in terms of size, it was one of the five European countries and is now not in last place. The economy of political ties goes back thousands of years. Almost the entire territory of Turkey is Greco-Roman territory. Turkey has always participated in the political life of Europe. Turkey is a part of Europe, regardless of anyone else's wishes.

[Catfish]

The Turk remains a Turk, regardless of anyone's desire to consider him a European.
Although ... quite a European nation.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Sea Cat

The Turk remains a Turk, regardless of anyone's desire to consider him a European.
Although ... quite a European nation.

Well, heads in Europe were not fools to chop.

[Catfish]

Bags dragged to the exhibition?

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Sea Cat

Bags dragged to the exhibition?

in different ways

[Catfish]

It's all about time. The times of your engravings and drawings, and the time that is displayed on the picture of Vereshchagin. There is a difference?

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Sea Cat

It's all about time. The times of your engravings and drawings, and the time that is displayed on the picture of Vereshchagin. There is a difference?

Each civilization has its own cycle.
Quartered in the past and will be in the future.
What, say, in this plane are the French different from the Turks or the Mongols, etc.?

[Catfish]

Quartered in the past and will be in the future.

Even small, but very proud peoples are doing this now.

[WOLF330]

The Bukhara emir suppresses the uprising)) What side do the Uzbek internal graters drag into the Ottomans?

[Catfish]

We have long been on you? Learn to talk to people, for starters.

[bayard]

Quote: Grazdanin

Almost the entire territory of Turkey is Greco-Roman territory.

Territory - yes. And also Armenian (all eastern Turkey) Kurdish Syrian ...
But where did the Turks come from?
Where did you come from?
On these - lands alien to them?
And they came there from ... Khorezm.
Western Khorezm - modern Turkmenistan.
And how did they get into Khorezm?
And where ?
From the Trans-Volga possessions ... Khazaria.
And even there they were not locals ... they also came there.
Where from?
From ... Siberia - recruited mercenaries for the Khazar army, gathered there from different volosts by the Khazar governor ... Seljuk. For the Khazars against the army of Svyatoslav ... But they were late for the war ... - from Itil, to their arrival, only little heads remained, as well as from the whole Khazaria ...
Seljuk mercenaries were late for the war.
And who was Seljuk himself?
Ltd .
It was a very interesting character ... who built his career very deftly.
Firstly, he was from one of the Turkic families ...
But.
For the sake of a career at the Khazar court, he accepted ... circumcision (abandoning the faith of ancestors ) and even the first 3 or 4 of his sons gave the Jewish names (David, Solomon, Judah ...) ...
But then it suddenly turned out that he had gathered an army, and there was no one to serve ... No more Khazars.
And their kingdom (kaganate) - no.
But the army is ...
And the brave servant of the defeated kaganate went ... to Khorezm (a powerful and rich Muslim state in Central Asia (Asia) ... to offer himself and his army to the service ...
Times were turbulent and the army of cutthroat mercenaries was not superfluous ... And they accepted him into the service ... But they made a condition - to convert to Islam!
And what?
The usual thing. I have already given up one faith, we can renounce another Moreover, you don’t need to be circumcised anymore - everything is cropped in advance.
And the service was determined for him by the governor of the western province of Khorezm - present-day Turkmenistan (after their stay the name apparently remains) ... And he began to give names to his next sons, born already in Islam ... respectively, Islamic - Muhammad ... well, you understand (I won’t mention everyone as a memory - I haven’t refreshed it for a long time).
But after some ... relatively short time ... from internal strife and upheaval, Khorezm itself collapsed and sparked an internecine strife ...
Again, twenty-five!
The owners are gone, and the entrusted province ... is poor and barren. Moreover, on the border with Persia, with which they regularly fought ...
In short - there is nowhere to feed.
Honestly.
But he is - the governor ...
And he has an ARMY.
And Seljuk began to hunt by robbery.
But in the East of Khorezm - war, torn territories ... and, it seems, it’s not in terms of concepts — they can even drive them out of service ... if all of a sudden the order comes ...
And he began to rob the border areas ... Persia.
And who else?
Nearby there is no one else.
In addition - he began to detach individual units in the military for hire in ... the same Persia to protect its provinces from ... other units of its own robbers.
It turned out to be very profitable, very profitable BUSINESS!
Because when there is robbery and robbery all around, there is a demand for troops and simply bodyguards ... AT THE PRICE.
So, Persia itself began to become frustrated and ruined ... And Seljuk detachments in all its parts were hired to guard, defend and guardians of Persian bodies ...
So, cheerfully and with a twinkle, the Seljuk Turks first squeezed out the whole of Persia from the Persians (now Azerbaijan - North and South (the capital of Tabriz)), and then the whole - Persia.
And even their own dynasty - the Turkic, was placed on the throne ... right up to the overthrow of the Shah by the "Islamic revolution" in 1979 - the rules.
And then, in the same sequence, they began, through mercenarism, to the Byzantine Empire, to bite small and big already this one - the Christian Empire.
The thing is off.
It goes well !
So good that after a while they took Constantinople.
And then we went.
And since they left Asia (Asia) during their time, they called themselves - "boys / boys from Asia", in other words - the Turkmens of Asman. But since their vocal apparatus has already become ... peculiar (softening and non-pronunciation of hard consonants and replacing some vowels in sound with ... more rounded ones), it sounded in their pronunciation - "Osman Türks".
In general, communication didn’t particularly interfere.

Since then, the descendants of the Seljukov’s troops have lived on alien, honestly depressed lands.
And they are trying hard to make all the locals ... Turks.
Objections are not accepted.
Armenians, Greeks, Kurds, Syrians, etc. ... will not be allowed to lie.
The habit was not even second, but first nature.
And this is not surprising.

They do not have a single genotype. Yes, this is not surprising - the army gathered Seljuk from different nations - Kumans, Torques, Bashkirs, Udmurts ... you will not list all. And the language of the army was Turkic.
Yes, he also practiced as a language of the army in Russia for a very long time.
And since the army’s soldiers didn’t take their wives with them, they took brides from the neighboring peoples ... Which is also quite understandable.

This is how modern Turks came about.
And the fact that this is pure truth will not be allowed to lie by the great Eurasian - Lev Nikolayevich Gumilyov, himself by mother (Anna Akhmatova) of the clan of the Tartar kings. It seems even from Genghisides.
More recently (from a historical point of view) we called the Don, Grebensky and Kuban Cossacks ... Circassian Tatars. For for us the words:
- Cossack
- Tatar
- Turk
at different times meant the same thing - the border guard army of the Great Empire.
Not an ethnic group, but an CONDITION.
Military.
Specific.
And the Turkic / Tatar language was the MILITARY language of this army.
Along with Russian - common.
My grandfather (of blessed memory) perfectly knew several Türkic-Tatar dialects and spoke freely with any Türks. For our Türks are OUR Türks.
Almost relatives.

[Grazdanin]

Everything was interesting, but of course I will not read)

[bayard]

Yes to health!

[Oquzyurd]

A lot of untruth, but there are true moments. I was not lazy, I read

[bayard]

Jeyhun, everyone has their own truth.
Truth is what they rule.
And taught history as well.
But the Truth is one.
In the ancient Proto-Aryan language, Truth is Ashi.
This was the name of the female deity from the "Seven Uncreated Immortals" - the pantheon of Zoroastrianism.
And the city of Ashgabat means the city of Good Asha.
Then the Caspian Sea had a different configuration and was called the Khvalis Sea (Blagodatnoe, for Hvarno is Grace), and even earlier this sea was called the Sea of ​​Vorukashi (Voruk Asha) - the Destiny of Good Asha.
The city of Ashgabat stood on the shore of this (until overflow) sea.
All these names appeared even before the advent of religions - Islam, Christianity, Buddhism ... Then there were no religions, but there was Faith - one for all.
For her purity and justice in this world, Good Ashi was responsible.
But it was a long time ago .

Religions that appeared later are distorted replicas of a previously unified faith. A monument to that - the former history is the preserved (but edited by the author) "Book of Kings" - "Shah Name" of the legendary Ferdowsi. A work of genius is the fruit of the labors of his entire life.
... Ferdousi lived, by the way, just at the times described (scribbled) by me above - he began to write under the Persian dynasty of shahs, and finished already under the Turkic.
His great wisdom is full of labor.

And lays well on the music.

[Catfish]

Excuse me, are you talking to me? If yes, then show me at least one Turk in whom I threw a turd, or at least this very turd, for example.

By the way, I used to give flowers to women, to whom, as far as I know, Tsar Ivan the Terrible (nicknamed Vasilich for cruelty) has nothing to do.

I’m not going to explain anything to readers, and no one is asking me about this, this is your problem, not mine. On this occasion, I breathe evenly and I don’t give a damn about anybody’s national problems about the face of a bat five hundred years ago.

[Oquzyurd]

"as they cut off a piece of Cyprus from the Greeks, as in their time Constantinople." For this phrase, I asked the difference and similarity of three points, so that you do not lose objectivity, or think when you say to others, “chop off.” That's all, and about “deeply don’t give a damn about someone’s national problems about the bat five hundred years ago muzzle. "you say, not me, there was no intention.

[Catfish]

"you say, not me, there was even no intention.

Oh, come on, especially about objectivity, everything you have is on the surface, and not blind people with guide dogs around. Tired of worse than the bitter radish with its eternal problems. In America, blacks, and we have a bandera with nationalities. How long have I been living in this country, and you have one and the same thing: How much is the money for fish? Tired of it.

[D16]

Now explain to the readers the similarities and differences between these three points, and add why, for the third point, you can throw Turks with poop and the other two points with flowers?

You can add to the list a later capture of the Crimea by Potemkin . This is a timely defense of their territories from inadequate neighbors. Like a second Chechen, for example. And the capture of Constantinople is just the case when inadequate neighbors prevailed .

[Oquzyurd]

The principle of rewarding flowers and poop for events that are not different in the ESS. Of course, under different pretexts, only flowers are their own ... Objectivity is off scale

[D16]

Objectivity goes wild

If your life traded in human trafficking and material values ​​stolen from neighbors, then what objectivity do you want? From the point of view of the neighbors, everything is completely fair and appropriate.

[Oquzyurd]

Why are you sure that your neighbors do not think of you like that? After all, they too many times too suffered from raids of lovely neighbors

[D16]

I don’t care what they think there. It is important what they do.

[Oquzyurd]

This is also mutual.

[D16]

This is also mutual.

While they were sitting quietly in Kazan, nobody touched you. A scumbag came from the Krymchaks, got a lyuley. Ivan 4 took Kazan. Who has been living there ever since? Tatars and live. So the empire was built.

[Oquzyurd]

Yes, of course, the logic is a pretext, however. No one sat quietly throughout the Pacific Ocean, and in order to defend Moscow, Novgorod, etc., they had to get to such distant lands. , no one would come there)))

[D16]

So the empire was built. Of course they would. But the massacres in the capitals did not suit. They brought vodka. This is a real jamb. But who at that time understood that they should not?

[Oquzyurd]

I’m talking about this. When others are building an Empire, they don’t have to poke their fingers in it. Anyone who has the opportunity, builds an empire, and no one is white and fluffy in this regard.

[D16]

others are building an Empire; for this, they don’t have to poke a finger in their eyes.

When the Russian Empire was built and gained access to the Black Sea, the Turks were against it. Brrr ... Russia has understandable economic interests and Turkey’s access to Libyan hydrocarbons contradicts them. So break off.

[tim.tim]

Ilya, do not argue with this. You don’t prove anything anyway. There are 2 pretty arrogant azerskix characters on this site, Oquzyurd and Karakurt. These urody just do that openly campaigning for the benefit of their robber brothers (Turks). Whenever information was received about Haftar’s failures, they had anal ejaculation, they really want Turkey to occupy Libya.

You see, you need to know the psychology of the azerov and the Turks, these barbarians have not changed at all for 1000 years. These impudent people are sure that everything is permissible for them, they can insolently seize foreign lands, and after a certain period of time, beat themselves in the chest with their fists "Ala, these are our lands." For example, Armenia, a piece of Bulgaria, Greece, half of Cyprus, etc.

For the time being, they really got away with it, but just the other day, they reported that the fighter Mirage 2000 of the UAE, or France destroyed the Turkish air defense batteries, several radars. and EW, in addition to sending a couple of invaders to the other world.

Now one place burned down at azerov, now they are on this site vyebyvayutsya.

[D16]

Ilya, do not argue with this.

And in my opinion it's pretty funny

You don’t prove anything anyway.

And what have they?

[D16]

Why are you sure that your neighbors do not think of you like that?

My neighbors do not complain about me. I do not steal them into slavery and do not sell them on the market in Turkey. Even in my thoughts this was not

[Oquzyurd]

You yourself know perfectly well that this is not about you)

[D16]

Good. Where did my ancestors sell Muslims?

[Oquzyurd]

Raids were arranged not to capture people with the subsequent sale, but to seize territories, plunder and subjugate the local to new rulers, etc. Why sell if they can serve you in the end. Approaches in different parts of the earth were different. The USA were slave owners, in Russia there was serfdom. Slave owners bought slaves from those who sold. In Russia and the new possessions of the local did not drive out, did not sell, subordinated through mechanisms, like "Serfdom" Therefore, you can ask in a wide voice- "Where did they sell Muslims are my ancestors? "Nowhere, they were needed)

[D16]

That is, in Tatarstan there were such Russian bars whose Tatars were in the slaves? Who were the local lords? Governor General ?

[Oquzyurd]

Serfdom - a set of legal norms enshrining the prohibition of peasants to leave their land allotments without the permission of the authorities (that is, the attachment of peasants to the land or the "fortress" of peasants to the land ... And who was the power? That one steered it.

[D16]

Serfdom - a set of legal norms enshrining the prohibition of peasants to leave their land allotments without permission of the authorities (that is, the attachment of peasants to the land or the "fortress" of peasants to the land ...

And it was on the territory of Tatarstan?

[Oquzyurd]

I don’t know for sure, but in Russia it’s not only Tatarstan and not only Tatars, many ethnic groups and many territories. I think that Serfdom acted throughout Russia.

[D16]

You can think anything. This is your legal right. But serfdom did not apply to non-Christians. In general, there was a free will on the Volga. Over the Volga all the more. Managed by taxes.

[Oquzyurd]

But in any case, they were needed for the Empire, as peasants, as warriors. It was about seizing with subsequent sale into slavery. The policy of the Empire was different, expanding as much as possible, and this could be achieved with human resources. In this case why they need to put on shackles and sell them, if they can serve to increase the size of the Empire. That's why there was no slave trade in Russia.

[D16]

As well as managers. Able people easily made a career in the capitals. Empire half-wild peoples gave more than they took. Nobody in Kazan converted mosques to Orthodox churches and didn’t plant their religion. There were no taxes on free religion either. So do not put on a par with the capture by the Turks of Constantinople and the capture of Astrakhan and Kazan. In the Ottoman Empire, unlike the Russian one, the slave trade flourished to its full potential and the slave markets there were the final destination for people captured on our lands. So, Ivan, along the way, was solving this very serious problem.

[Grazdanin]

The Tatars were not serfs, the Poles had their own administration, Finland did not pay taxes, etc. The serfs were mostly Russian-Orthodox. The slave trade in the Republic of Ingushetia was called the sale of serfs. The Russian state has always been parasitic on the Russians, no more harm than the Russian government, no one has done the Russian.

[D16]

The slave trade in the Republic of Ingushetia was called the sale of serfs.

Just to throw some kind of fan on the fan . No one traded serfs during the capture of Astrakhan and Kazan. The peasants were free and had the right to leave the land. For this was St. George's Day. Then the parties could settle accounts with each other and disperse. Indefinitely peasants were attached to the earth under Alexei Tishaysh in 1649. Serfdom was practiced throughout Europe. This is the period of development through which everyone went, just in Russia, due to the characteristics of the climate, geography and wars, he dragged on and took such forms.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: D16

Just to throw some kind of fan on the fan

I came here to have fun, fun to watch the breaks at the idiots.

Quote: D16

times of the capture of Astrakhan and Kazan

I’m talking about the Russian Empire, during the kingdom it was still who headed the type of “state”, Moscow simply continued to fulfill its role as a collector of tribute, before they simply sent part of the tribute to the headquarters of the Golden Horde, now everything is to itself.
Bondage, taxes on faith, building a type of centralized power is the whole period of the Republic of Ingushetia.

[D16]

Ahhh ... you just chat, without reference to a specific topic and historical period ... You would at least read Wikipedia on the topic of the causes of feudal relations in the world and in Russia as well. How the question was closed with the Crimeans and the Golden Horde.
About taxes on faith can be more detailed?

[Grazdanin]

For example, Anna Ioannovna abolished taxes from baptized Tatars for 3 years, they were levied on those who remained in her faith. Fyodor Ivanovich ordered the destruction of all stone and wooden mosques in all Tatar settlements. Another decree of the same Tsar Fyodor Alekseevich of May 24, 1681 ordered the estates and estates of the Tatar landowners who did not want to be baptized and who remained, in their faith, to hand them over to relatives who passed over. to Christianity. According to the decree of Elizaveta Petrovna, 536 out of 418 mosques were destroyed. According to the Cathedral Code of 1649, the Tatars were forbidden to make metal products. all property is taken away. There were big trade restrictions, non-baptized Tatars were evicted from cities and villages where there were Orthodox, etc.

But again, the most severe requisitions and fines extended to Orthodox Russians, I do not argue with that.
From the Criminal and Correctional Penal Code of 1845
Article 198. Evasion of baptism and raising children in the Orthodox faith - imprisonment up to 2 years.
Article 218. Preservation of non-religious customs by converts to Orthodoxy - intelligible conversation.

[D16]

With the arrival of the Romanovs to power, the "mad printer" of lawmaking began to work. But the severity of Russian laws was compensated by the non-binding nature of their implementation. According to the cathedral code of 1649, the death penalty was imposed on the tobacco trade. There was a lot of absurdity, but who followed the execution? Otherwise, Kazan would be Orthodox today.

[harpsichord]

You can talk about the past when the problems of the day today are resolved. And when those who are preoccupied raise historical topics according to the manuals, and normal people pick them up ... something is not right.

[D16]

You can talk about the past when the problems of the day today are resolved.

Why? The problems of today are in many ways a repetition of the problems of the past, but at a different level. Remember the laws of dialectics from the school curriculum

[harpsichord]

Not Moscow anymore.
http://realtribune.ru/news/people/4616?utm_source=finobzor.ru

[Grazdanin]

Why not Moscow? Now Moscow is also collecting tribute, it simply sends it mainly to London. And it refers to the current government as the Horde, so everything falls into place.

[harpsichord]

Then yes. I agree with you.

[D16]

Now Moscow also collects tribute, it just sends it mainly to London

In the 19th year, the export of capital decreased almost three times compared to 18m.
https://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2020/01/17/n_13926758.shtml#:~:text=Карьера-,ЦБ%3A%20чистый%20отток%20капитала%20из%20России%20в,году%20составил%20%2426%2C7%20млрд&text=По%20итогам%202019%20года%20чистый,вывоз%20капитала%20составил%20%2463%20млрд.
Campaign at London City has problems .

[harpsichord]

How to say. The river has changed the course. Two reasons - they are no longer entering Russia. From Russia, the conclusion goes in other ways. And look - they hardly bring it back - with investments. but they also output a little - they have already withdrawn.

[D16]

Or maybe they built a dam on the river? It is clear that "what has fallen is gone", but now it falls less

but they also output a little - they have already withdrawn

That is, London-deg money is no longer needed?

[gsev]

Quote: Grazdanin

The Russian state has always been parasitic on the Russians, no more harm than the Russian government, no one has done the Russian.

In general, serfdom is the duty of serfs to support the warrior who protects them against raids. It was with the emergence of serfdom after the abolition of St. George's Day and the end of the Time of Troubles of the early 17th century, the expansion of the Russian state began. The territories liberated from the slave-robbers were either settled by peasants who supplied the state with people and means for the army, or the Cossacks housed a special military estate that supplied itself and was an army. It was this system that turned out to be very viable and was able to ensure Russia's access to the borders of full-fledged states, from the territory of which slave traders could not invade Russia: Korea, China, Afghanistan, Iran, and Turkey. Since then, the question arose about the abolition of serfdom. The first attempts to limit serfdom occurred under Catherine 2, who forbade the conversion or return to serfdom of the state of free people or those who had left serfdom. In general, the history of the abolition of serfdom in Russia is closely linked with the history of Turkey. During their confrontation with the development of technology, despotism and serfdom became a brake on the development of both Turkey and Russia. It was after the defeat in the Crimean War and the failures in the Caucasian War against the Highlanders that Russia abolished serfdom, which allowed it to completely defeat the last Circassian and Turkmen slave traders and help create fully-fledged independent Orthodox states in the Balkans that could protect their population from national and religious oppression Turkish empire.

[Oquzyurd]

"The empire gave more than it took to semi-savage peoples." At that time, the Tatars and the city of Kazan were the center of development and civilization. Grozny and his army were semi-savage for them. You were distortedly taught from history. According to the program of the RI policy, to exalt yourself and belittle others , even if they became your subjects. All scientific works, books of history are based on this basis. However, this is inherent in all empires. Generations have grown, generations have changed, but it has not changed and navryatli change.

[D16]

I'm actually talking about the indigenous people of Siberia and the north. ... At the expense of "semi-wild" Ivan Vasilyevich, you got excited. His image was badly spoiled by the British, whose existence the Kazan Tatars most likely did not even know.

[harpsichord]

It is so. But the colonized former consider the British Empire for mom and dad. And here I can’t even pick up the words. except that Kadyrov loves very much - almost fucked up.

[Okolotochny]

I do not know for sure,

[/ Quote]
[quote] I think that serfdom acted throughout Russia.

Bingo, why then "climb into the bottle" if we don't know for sure?

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Oquzyurd

add, why for the third point you can throw Turks poop, and the remaining two points with flowers?

Everything is very simple here. The constant raids on our land from these territories left us no other choice. The Byzantines did not go to the Turks in predatory campaigns. In addition, do not forget that the Tatars were aliens in those lands.

[Oquzyurd]

"that the Tatars were newcomers to those lands." Yes, they say they flew from Mars Here are the rest of the earthlings. Whoever stood there grew up from the earth like a fungus))

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Joking is not yours.

[D16]

Only not the Tatars, but Seljuk Turks mainly. And they arrived from the territory of Altai and Central Asia, capturing Baghdad, Syria and Libya along the way, and much more. They destroyed the empire weakened by the epidemic and began to plant their religion. By the way, the other day again a mosque was made from the museum of the Hagia Sophia. Everything is like in the bad old days .

[tim.tim]

You will tell these tales to Meherban Khanm to your grandchildren.

[Grazdanin]

They themselves wrote, they laughed themselves. At least read the story "Sick Man of Europe"

[Catfish]

Each nation has its own history. And I laugh now, esteeming you and the son of the steppes Jeyhun.

[Korsar4]

Getting ready? Start with Toropets?

"They are shy
And drink thimbles
And we will take away the souls in Russian ”(c).

[Catfish]

Seryog, it's useless with them: "Stands on three whales! - And bit his finger as evidence." (from).

[lubesky]

Turkey at the Far theater of operations on which counts, interesting

[Crabong]

For oil and gas.

[Grazdanin]

Turkey first of all needs bases.

[Oquzyurd]

Yes, it so happened that in the world there is a lot of oil and gas production, cheap, a lot of suppliers, in short, does not bother with deficits and prices. The Turks have a base. They themselves call Tripoli the "Gateway of Africa". They go there to expand business and trade. For example , they had a 19 billion dollar contract with the late Gaddafi for the development of Libya's infrastructure. Now Saraj declares that the contract is in force, moreover, he invites and promises more interesting contracts to Turkish business. Other North African countries awaiting a strong hand of support from the Turks. That is why the French are in a panic, realizing that the "former" colonies may become really the former in the not very distant future.

[Grazdanin]

Yes. Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria are by no means poor countries. Also against Greece is a great location.

[svp67]

Quote: Grazdanin

Turkey first of all needs bases.

So I understand that Turkey first of all needs cheap and extensive resources

[Grazdanin]

Not really. Turkey receives and resells free oil from Syria, transits oil and gas from Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan, other countries of Central Asia and Russia. Yes, Libya's affordable oil and gas, close to consumers, is a nice bonus, but you need to share it with many.
Base and Tripoli control are more important. This makes it possible to work more closely with the countries of West Africa, weaken the position of France and the Saudis in the region.
Large infrastructure projects and the sale of technological equipment will be more profitable than the sale of resources. The importance of oil and gas will soon fall to the current significance level of coal and aluminum.

[D16]

Turkey first and foremost need a base.

What for? They are already in the Mediterranean. Milking the EU, control migrants from Africa?

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Grazdanin

Turkey first of all needs bases.

And brains. The brains need to be cleaned by the Turks from the propaganda adhering to them. Otherwise, the hour is not equal, you will have to cry over the fate of the villain.

[Grazdanin]

For Turkey, this is not a distant theater. To Libya itself, 700 kilometers, to Tripoli 1500 kilometers by sea.

[Oquzyurd]

From Egypt by road to Sirte, about 1000 km, from Turkey to Misrat, by sea, about 1400 km. You need to see what is more profitable, safer - land 1000 km, or the sea 1400 km.

[Grazdanin]

It should also be borne in mind that the road to Sirte goes along the sea, the Turkish fleet is one of the strongest in the region.

[Ivan Ivanov_6]

And note "they do not need, like the Turks, to send soldiers and equipment by ships, but rather calmly cross the Egyptian-Libyan border in convoys." - how ours do it on the border with Ukraine. Holy truth.

[Oquzyurd]

By the way, yesterday the Algerian Foreign Minister stated that they fully support the PNS and Turkey, adding that they are proud of it, that they take the side of the government, which is recognized by the UN.

[D16]

By the way, yesterday the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Algeria said

Directly gave money to God a pleasing thing?

[mdsr]

Quote: lubesky

Turkey at the Far theater of operations on which counts, interesting

I think that the Turks are preparing to transfer their F-16s to Al-Vatiya airfield. Everything will be arranged by analogy with the transfer of our aircraft to Syria. And what? Logistics will be organized by sea and by air. Coastal Libyan waters will patrol Turkish frigates. Turkish airplanes will be on duty in the air. They can be supported by the Algerian Su-30MKA. Egypt will no longer be able to throw the Turks into the Mediterranean Sea. It was necessary to do this earlier, in the winter, when Haftar's troops stormed Tripoli. And now it’s too late, the train left. Battles can develop only beyond the actual border of separation of Tripolitania and Cyrenaica.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: mdsr

Battles can develop only beyond the actual border of separation of Tripolitania and Cyrenaica.

Tripoli need Sirte, al-Jufra, Sabna. It is quite possible to repel them.

[D16]

Tripoli need Sirte, al-Jufra, Sabna. It is quite possible to repel them.

Yes, they just stand still. Feel the smell of oil. So will continue to sniff from afar. Nobody needs them there.

[D16]

I think that the Turks are preparing to transfer their F-16s to Al-Vatiya airfield

Unknown planes wait will not wait for the deployment process. I remember the other day the air defense there in the deployment process have already taken out .

[Oquzyurd]

"The air defense there in the process of deployment has already taken out" The raid had practically no military significance, but it gave the Turks one more trump card to use at the right time.

[D16]

Of course I didn’t. That's just the F-16 there we now will not see. And if we see, then not for long.

[Oquzyurd]

We will not guess, I think a lot will not work, we will see everything)

[alone]

Egypt now has problems up to its throat without Libya ... The epidemic is gaining momentum, the Sinai Peninsula is very restless (a local ISIS cell operates there), difficult relations with Sudan, with Ethiopia in general on the brink of war over the dam on the Nile, local opposition of the Brothers Muslims "who are just waiting in the wings.
Al-Sisi is very dependent on the Saudis and on the emirate sheikhs. . They push him to confrontation in Libya.

[Grazdanin]

There is a big question about the state of the army of Egypt, whether it wants to fulfill orders or not. Logistic problems, more than 1000 km in the desert to drive technology, so-so pleasure.

[jekasimf]

But Turkey has no problems ?,,

[Grazdanin]

Much less. The Turkish army wants to fight. One of the complaints to Erdogan was that he does not use the army, does not protect the interests of the country by military means.

[Free wind]

The army had claims to Erdogan in that it began to impose Islam, and began to impose its dictatorship and put around its kents. According to AtaTurk’s precepts, the army must ensure that this does not happen. As for wants, I’m not sure, but if it starts, but those killed on both sides appear, then mutual hatred will flare up with each new killed.

[chingachguc]

damn thing you don't understand in ballet

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Grazdanin

Turkish army wants to fight

This is its main problem. When itching, it is necessary to treat, not scratch.

[Free wind]

1000 km, on modern tracks, no problem. There is enough fuel reserve for 2000. System oil level, instrument coolers. Only here is a group in a convoy of no more than 5 cars, otherwise the speed drops greatly.

[Urs]

I don’t quite agree, but it’s possible to include a factor of patriotism, such as protecting the interests of the motherland and enemies want to take their native Egypt into the ring and other slogans. Such actions usually help distract the average person from internal problems, by the way very effective method. Yes, and apparently Egypt relies on Russia’s help, albeit direct though indirect. Yes, and we are interested in having Turkey bogged down in armed conflicts, this could weaken and surrender Turkey’s position in Syria.
That something like this.

[Oquzyurd]

There is a nuance, Turkey is fighting, becoming stronger than vice versa. Recent years have witnessed this. They are developing the military-industrial complex, the tech industry as a whole. Human and equipment losses are minimal for a country with 85 million people. Turkey 20 years ago and now, the difference is heaven and earth.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Turkey fighting is becoming stronger than vice versa.

Yeah. In Syria, a column of riddled equipment became stronger in an instant. In Syria + Libya - to most of their drones. A little more - and it will become very strong, so strong that you will have to fight again on horses with scimitars.

[Oquzyurd]

For such a country is a trifle, from the word at all.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Oquzyurd

For such a country is a trifle, from the word completely

We did it for several years, lost it in a few days. A trifle, of course. I say, if anything, "such a country" does not care what to rake off - with drones or with yatogans.

[harpsichord]

Motor Sich in full load - the engine on the UAV for the Turks.

[Crabong]

It’s time for the Egyptians to kick. By the forces of a couple of mechanized brigades and a combined aviation regiment.

[storm]

The Turks will undoubtedly ogreb in Libya good "Lyuli", but pleases another and the Turks and Egyptians will come to Russia for new weapons.

[harpsichord]

And the Wagnerites will be brought. With armor at the ready. And 29th and 24th

[Free wind]

Wow, you already remember the Mamluks. And that the trucks are standing with tanks, forward to the battle. Interesting wagons on trailers. For crew members, or such an Egyptian sleeping bag.

[iouris]

Risk is a characteristic that includes an assessment of the possibility of an undesirable event occurring and an assessment of the severity of the possible consequences of the occurrence of this event.
Let the author explain by what body he "feels" the risk of a military clash. It would be better for everyone if the author cited expert assessments (if any).

[Zaurbek]

It's time for Egypt to pack up and crave for these Turks. And enter the troops.

[alone]

In this situation, Algeria with its army and aviation will take the side of the PNS .. this has already been warned that if Egypt send troops against the PNS, Algeria will enter the war on the side of the PNS. Algeria has the most powerful air force in the region and the corresponding air defense. .So it's not so simple

[iouris]

Quote: lonely

So it's not so simple

All the more interesting.
However, interests and the antagonism of interests are becoming more apparent. Coalitions are already taking shape. But the collective farm is voluntary.

[rocket757]

Geyropeyskie brewed porridge, and as always, someone else should dissolve!

[Grazdanin]

Quote: rocket757

disentangle

What to disentangle? What is the problem? Centralized Libya with Gaddafi is a big problem. The current situation is normal, as in the good old Britain, France, Italy, Turkey share the African colony.

[rocket757]

This is not our problem, but someone will have to rake there. Someone to get caught under this business somehow, themselves, themselves.

[Grazdanin]

Explain that you need to "rake" what is the problem?)

[rocket757]

And sho there, the normal state of civil war with a bunch of foreign "helpers"?

[Grazdanin]

Yes, normal condition. The civil war is not there, the people of Libya, all 6 million people do not care about what is happening. Britain, Italy, Turkey, on the one hand, the French and Arabs divided the territory on the other. The dispute is now over 3 points, Sirte, Al-Jufra, Sabna.

[rocket757]

I agree, in general, two centers with assistants / sponsors, butting for power, for control over everything and everyone. But "civilians", local residents in such a situation cannot prosper by definition.
For whom the war, and for whom the mother is native ..... universal, and even a partial mess does not suit everyone.

[alex aircraft]

And which side to take in case of war? Brotherly Turkey or friendly Egypt ?? more complicated question. must be submitted to a popular poll. as the people decide it will be so. benefit experience already exists.

[Urs]

Yes, why advertise that we say that these are against these. All the more so, there is a vote there. The American experience says that you need to clearly support your wallet first, use one of the other means of attack and other means of defense, and vice versa. And everything in the order of the military-industrial complex plows the loot. .

[Charik]

yeah vote electronically-% 99 will be for

[chingachguc]

your side. let them carry each other and buy weapons

[Atlant-1164]

Egypt has no chance against Turkey. References to good weapons are no argument.
KSA and the UAE will have more of them .. and nonetheless, the Hussites rule. The Egyptians lost everything and everyone. Over the past couple of thousand years. They are not warriors.

[Urs]

I would not be so categorical, times have changed and Egypt is not the same and the instructors are good there, so who knows. Yes, and with weapons there is not so "deplorably old". Do not underestimate the enemy.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Atlant-1164

links to good weapons is not an argument

So, I wonder, what then is the argument?

Quote: Atlant-1164

they are not warriors

Oh, this is an argument!

[Oquzyurd]

The Egyptian army is a commercial organization. All construction companies. Production and sale belongs to the army and its ranks. Do not believe, check. Discipline is at the level of the baht system, which is worse. Generals are merchants who have their own companies. The competition between them is not in military affairs, training and planning, but in trade and construction. Think such an army is capable of winning something? What have they won to this day? Some defeat. The Saudis, the United Arab Emirates are the same. The Houthis showed their "organization and planning, having only modern weapons in the presence of only modern weapons."

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Egyptian army, this is a commercial organization

And the Turkish one - an uprising against the supreme raised the other day. Two of a Kind.

[Oquzyurd]

"Two of a Kind." Aha, who has inseparably created many centuries-old empires, the Turks and their army are equal to the builders of Sisi Do not state your dreams and desires, tell the truth. If you do not know, books to help you.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Yeah, inextricably creating many centuries of centuries-old empires,

Are you bukh there, or what?

[Oquzyurd]

I’m sober, and you are lying.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Oquzyurd

I'm sober and

Is Russian not your native language?

[Oquzyurd]

Does my name tell you anything? I have Russian second language. I am not Russian.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Oquzyurd

I am not russian

Clear.
Why are you writing this pathetic nonsense here? Do you not understand that such speeches in our country will cause nothing but laughter and rejection of the Turks? Are you trying to annoy the Turks?
You must understand the difference in bragging perception in your and our culture. She is huge.

[Oquzyurd]

"pretentious nonsense" Where is pretentious nonsense? Show me at least.

[tim.tim]

Boris dear, do you really not understand? This Oquzyurd is Azerbaijani. Azerbaijanis and Turks are one and the same. The same guano in different pots. So do not be surprised, on this site he is vyebyvaetsya, trying to set the Russians positive for the Turks. He simply does not realize that after the latest events, no one in the world will have confidence in these Ottoman disadvantages.

[Oquzyurd]

Why are you so humiliated? When will you gain pride and spiritual freedom, having left the character of a slave and an informer Allah (Lord God) help these heretics to become on the path of truth. Amin.

[tim.tim]

Oyyy, whose cow would moo. At first, you would stop stealing everything that is bad, all on the lands of your neighbors, get sick. You have kleptomania in your blood simply. And after you recover, then we'll talk.

[Private-K]

Quote: Atlant-1164

Egypt has no chance against Turkey. References to good weapons are no argument.
KSA and the UAE will have more of them .. and nonetheless, the Hussites rule. The Egyptians lost everything and everyone. Over the past couple of thousand years. They are not warriors.

But the sight promises to be interesting!
Both useful and instructive. . Especially if both sides go to full-fledged combined-arms operations and naval warfare with modern weapons.

[raki-uzo]

They would first have to negotiate with Ethiopia before the war against Turkey. Without water it’s hard alone. A tragedy will soon begin in Egypt, but nothing, they are supported by rich countries with their taxpayers. Question - for how long?

[harpsichord]

Poor Wagnerites who are not ... a meat grinder is ripening there.

[Pavel57]

Egypt and Libya were provinces
Ottoman Empire. It will be difficult for the Turks to retreat.

[Urs]

Not in those days, Turkey will not be an Ottoman empire, and Erdogan will not pull much on the leader of the nation, well, economically, too, will not pull. In the course of Erdogan tries to raise a wave of chauvinist patriotism and score points on this. It seems to me that Erdogan is a little weak this role.

[Avior]

Two major Russian resorts clash. Resort war! :))

[boss]

That's what Russia DOESN'T NEED to do now, is to stop the Turks from exporting the Idlib serpentarium)
And it’s better to arm Haftar)

[Urs]

I agree, perhaps even in the wake of the armed conflict with Egypt in Libya, the Turks will weaken their positions, which will make it possible for Syrians to act more actively in Idlib. And about Haftar, it wasn’t bad either, but it’s more difficult to do it out of the shadows. It seems like Erdogan’s Libya, a war on two fronts, having been spoiled by relations with the states and NATO, and with the enemy in the person of Russia, even in the shade.

[harpsichord]

Do we have so many Shells?

[Charik]

you fat ends, will you lick turtle shells?

[harpsichord]

It’s just a pity, humanly, on their Wagner’s banners - in Syria fat was taken away with their lives, now in Libya documents with rubles and dollars are being collected. Who needs it?

[Charik]

chocolate alcoholic handed over documents to the campaign

[chingachguc]

Well, the Turks can, if they want)) nothing personal, business

[Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov]

Janissaries will smash the Mamelukes.

[igorra]

Erdogan forgot folk wisdom - even with a big mouth, bite off in small pieces. The desires of the Sultan - Light are clearly ahead of both brains and opportunities.

[Jack O'Neill]

There will be no clash between Egypt and Turkey. And why should Egypt fight against Turkey for the bits of Libya? Lol ...

[Ryaruav]

the army of Egypt may not be so hot but for the Turks it will not drive the Kurds, it is much more serious and it will not be difficult for Egypt to shut off the supply from Turkey, of course, if the Polovtsian dances begin

[Grazdanin]

Egypt enters, Algeria enters.

[Oquzyurd]

Sisi opposition in Egypt itself will "enter", and Sisi will make Sisi-pusi)

[chingachguc]

Erdogan wants to take revenge for Syria)) we will be friends with both these and those, push weapons and ammunition and watch how Arabs and Turks urinate each other. Beauty!

[Oquzyurd]

"Erdogan wants to take revenge for Syria))"? In fact, he took control of northern Syria, at a depth of 30-40 km, in length along the perimeter of the border, about 500 km. And he commands there very freely. What revenge, what are you talking about?))

[chingachguc]

well, they didn’t let him turn around in Syria ... they threw the kraiukha ... choke on

[Grazdanin]

And what good is there in Syria, what does Turkey need? US Syrian Oil and so through Turkey drives. What are we doing there?

[chingachguc]

Syrian oil is not so great a value to tear a navel out of it. What does Erdogan need in Syria? Influence. Ambition. Pride. In fact, he has no vital interests there. Yes, and we have a little. Like the last ally in the Middle East. Base on the Mediterranean. Political weight. Respect. Weapon advertising. Well, ISIS, of course, posed a real threat.

[Grazdanin]

So they did not bother until it came to their fraternal people and real interests. Then the troops entered and defended what was needed. Libya is a completely different alignment.

[Revolver]

Quote: chingachguc

What Erdogan needs

Sultanate. He is the Ottoman Empire.

[mace]

He will finish in the same way as many of his "colleagues in the workshop" dreamed of the sultanates and other Third Reichs. In a puddle of their own feces, no one needs and spat on everyone.

[Revolver]

“If we see that Germany Turkey is winning the war, we wanted to help Russia Egypt and if that Russia Egypt is winning, we wanted to help Germany Turkey, and in that way let them kill as many as possible. ” Senator Harry S. Truman, D (MO) Revolver

[Guazdilla]

Bomb the dam under construction in Ethiopia and Egypt will be linked in the South.

[gsev]

Quote: Guzadilla

Bomb the dam under construction in Ethiopia and Egypt will be linked in the South.

In the future, a large mirror of the water of the Ethiopian reservoir should soften the climate of Sudan and Ethiopia and increase the amount of moisture in the atmosphere, which will be useful to Egypt, and Sudan and Ethiopia. If Egypt bombs this dam, it will worsen its water balance in a 10-year period.

[Guazdilla]

The Turks, as if by chance, have military bases in Sudan and in Somalia. With all the positive consequences of building a dam, there are many negative ones. Egypt may not decide to use military force in Ethiopia, although it had been repeatedly threatened earlier, but unidentified UAVs have the opportunity to damage (not destroy) the dam. While Egypt and Ethiopia will find out who did this not through diplomatic means, the Egyptian group in Libya will be weakened, with all the positive consequences for the alleged Turkish military operations in Libya.
Ethiopia is not a Muslim country, but bases in Sudan and Somalia can be sacrificed for the sake of owning its hydrocarbons.

[Alex1949]

That the Turks, that the Arabs - the soldiers are weak in spirit. How the Turks want to fight in remote territories is incomprehensible to the mind. Even you can’t organize the normal transfer of troops by sea, what can we say about the Turks. It’s easier for the Egyptians, only where can they get so many weapons for a full-scale war. Judging by the wars with Israel - Egypt does not shine victory. But Russia, although perked up by the military spirit, will not be able to fight on three fronts (with Turkey, in Syria and in Libya). We do not yet have a militarized economy and army.

[agoran]

Interesting topic.
It is necessary to inflate the conflict in every way.
Sell ​​weapons to all parties to the conflict.
Rub the pens and count the profits.
And rightly so.

[Gloomy skeptic]

Over the past month and a half, Turkish military aircraft made 27 flights to Libya.

These are such "huge" transportation as much as half a flight per day !!! Such "unprecedented" volumes of traffic give hope to the owner of a vegetable shop - against such "hordes" no competitor of a fruit stall on the other hand WILL RESPOND. Well, just like children in a sandbox. Why take up a weapon if you DO NOT know how to use it ???

[Gloomy skeptic]

Quote: Alex1949

That the Turks, that the Arabs - the soldiers are weak in spirit. How the Turks want to fight in remote territories is incomprehensible to the mind. Even you can’t organize the normal transfer of troops by sea, what can we say about the Turks. It’s easier for the Egyptians, only where can they get so many weapons for a full-scale war. Judging by the wars with Israel - Egypt does not shine victory. But Russia, although perked up by the military spirit, will not be able to fight on three fronts (with Turkey, in Syria and in Libya). We do not yet have a militarized economy and army.

And why should Russia fight in Libya, and even more so in Turkey, if not a secret ???

[mace]

I stock up on popcorn. Especially the Egyptian army "inspires" since the time when Israel tore them