Military Review

Liberals hate Ivan IV

50
Liberals hate Ivan IV

One of the most discussed historical figures of Russia - the figure of the autocrat Ivan the Terrible. The number of literary and historical works dedicated to the reign of John IV is in the hundreds. And in these hundreds of works, there is something in common. The so-called hardened liberals, especially the Western liberal elites, are trying to present the Russian tsar as a center of despotism, a bloodthirsty tyrant, the destroyer of millions of Russian destinies.


At one time, a "historical" film was released on Western TV, where the topic of allegedly "10 million executions on the orders of Ivan the Terrible" was discussed with all seriousness. This topic casts doubt on at least some kind of professionalism of the author, who, in an effort to spread propaganda, did not even bother to clarify how many people in the XNUMXth century lived in Moscow and throughout Russia. If I had bothered, I would have realized that I had betrayed an obvious absurdity.

On the Day channel, material appeared in which the historian Andrei Fursov talks about the literally pathological hatred of the so-called collective West and Russian neoliberals towards the personality of Ivan IV. What is it due to? Why is Ivan IV chosen as such a target? The material presents comparative assessments of rulers from different dynasties - Ivan IV and Peter I.

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  1. Ravik
    Ravik 11 July 2020 04: 35 New
    22
    After Bartholomew’s night, Ivan the Terrible is fit to go to the preparatory class ...
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 11 July 2020 10: 00 New
      11
      Quote: Ravik
      After Bartholomew’s night, Ivan the Terrible is fit to go to the preparatory class ...

      And how many of these “Bartholomew’s nights” were in the west, fingers and toes are not enough to count.
      1. doubovitski
        doubovitski 12 July 2020 13: 53 New
        +3
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: Ravik
        After Bartholomew’s night, Ivan the Terrible is fit to go to the preparatory class ...

        And how many of these “Bartholomew’s nights” were in the west, fingers and toes are not enough to count.

        ... and how many evenings? In St. Petersburg, in the Kazan Cathedral - the Museum of Religion and Atheism, it is full of objects used by democratic tolerant Jesuits to convince prisoners to present true testimonies to themselves and their neighbors. In the evening, so, take a walk through the cells in which the defendants are having conversations with their teachers ...... Impressions and healthy experiences will be all night.
      2. sailor roman
        sailor roman 3 September 2020 11: 06 New
        0
        Ivan the third collector of Russian land from the Moscow principality created mighty Russia with the strength and power of which Europe began to be reckoned with, which at that time was still a separate specific land ownership. As a result of the Russian-Lithuanian war of 1487-1494, most of the Verkhovsk principalities were part of the Russian Orthodox state and Europe froze ...
    2. Basil50
      Basil50 11 July 2020 10: 11 New
      +8
      Ravik
      You're right. But the root of hatred is not the same.
      In Europe, they cut their subjects for the sake of the monarch * right * to the massacre. At the same time, you must stand in a pose of nobility with a cross in your hands.
      Ivan the Terrible Europeans crumbled without reverence and in huge quantities. But his own state was protected and multiplied. By the way, in MOSCOW then there were numerous school schools for all classes.
      The fact that the Romanovs with the help of imported warriors seized the throne explains the hatred of Ivan the Terrible. Three hundred years have worked as historians, writers, theologians (Christians), substantiating * the necessity * of taking the throne and annihilating the Old Believers and Old Believers (they only deported schismatics and strangled them with taxes). It is worth remembering the destruction of state archives and libraries (including private ones), which was arranged by the Romanovs.
      For three hundred years, the Romanovs were calibrated with the imported monarchs of Europe, and about them the same relatives wrote and painted so much nasty things. Do you really think that there will be at least something decent about someone to write about. There in Europe and to myself, too, they write and draw a lot of nasty things, and today they shoot films.
      1. Alexander Kopelevich
        Alexander Kopelevich 21 September 2020 18: 20 New
        0
        Well, you are probably wrong. Ivan the Terrible did not destroy the Europeans, he even collaborated with foreign countries. Wars are wars, but it was a common thing in Europe at that time, yesterday is war - tomorrow is peace. Even during the Livonian War there were periods of armistice when Grozny claimed the Polish throne and for the first time tried to negotiate and divide the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth with the Habsburgs. He was friends with Denmark, in which he saw an ally against the Commonwealth and Sweden. I closely communicated with Elizabeth of England, gave the British in Russia great privileges, then fell out, really. The only thing that led a hard line was the ban on the entry of Jewish merchants into Russia. Big politics is this - you can never fight to the death and not change your position.
  2. Van 16
    Van 16 11 July 2020 05: 22 New
    +3
    Looked, or rather listened. I liked it, I agree with many theses absolutely.
  3. apro
    apro 11 July 2020 05: 28 New
    +2
    Hatred of John4 is based on one thing. He created the first centralized state on the territory of Russia. He implemented the principle of autocracy. Thus, he strengthened the state and created a lot of problems of the noble. Boyar freemen ...
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 July 2020 06: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: apro
      Hatred of John4 is based on one thing. He created the first centralized state on the territory of Russia. He implemented the principle of autocracy. Thus, he strengthened the state and created a lot of problems of the noble. Boyar freemen ...

      Yes????? And why is he not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia?
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 11 July 2020 07: 08 New
        +4
        Quote: svp67
        And why is he not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia?

        The monument was created in the era of the liberal tsar Alexander II, and what was the time of liberal changes, such is the approach to the choice of those to portray.
        Ivan the Terrible at the monument "replaced" by his first wife, Anastasia
        1. Pavel57
          Pavel57 12 July 2020 16: 06 New
          +1
          The Romanovs are by all standards impostors.
          1. Alexander Kopelevich
            Alexander Kopelevich 21 September 2020 18: 22 New
            0
            That way, all monarchs are impostors, except for the Japanese emperor))) Show me at least one country in whose history the dynasty has not changed
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 11 July 2020 08: 28 New
        +5
        Quote: svp67
        And why is he not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia?

        in connection with the relationship of the Romanovs to him
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 July 2020 08: 39 New
          +3
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          in connection with the relationship of the Romanovs to him

          Well, what did they have to do with him? After him, they took the throne ... and took possession of the huge state created by him. Not one politician, not before, did not expand so the borders of the Russian state and its economic base
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 11 July 2020 16: 24 New
            +4
            and what relation can impostors have to whose level they can never reach?
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 11 July 2020 10: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: apro
      Hatred of John4 is based on one thing. He created the first centralized state on the territory of Russia.

      The State of Russia, the Russian Kingdom, it was under Ivan the Terrible that it appeared on the maps of the world, and declared itself, even under Grozny, as a state capable of defending its lands, piling up "twin mates" and "cots" to any ruler of Europe. In those days, Russia was not a "bone in the throat" for the West, until it had its own fossils, forests, production, and Russia did not try to advance to the East, distributing "Nuland cookies" only to those who wanted to profit at the expense of Russia. But the situation in the XVIIII - early XX centuries has changed in favor of Russia, which has become one of the great Empires. It was then that they recalled in the West, “And who is the type who created such a giant? And they had some kind of Vanka, whom the West had called in his lifetime not Vanka, but His Royal Majesty Ivan the Terrible (I did not specify it ) Here, as we now see, it used to be like that, and under Grozny nothing changed and doesn’t change, the West, as it was evil, bile, envious and mean, remained the same, which is why the Tsar of Russia gets the most from the West Ivan the Terrible, because he created such a state that forces Europe to do everything with an eye on Russia, and if that, then they’ll write out not only “mates”, but also pee in the river Seine, and in the river Spree, and in the Vistula horses will be allowed to do this.
      Maybe I messed up, spontaneously wrote, but mine looks more like that.
  4. codetalker
    codetalker 11 July 2020 05: 29 New
    16
    In general, there is such a tendency: the most prominent of our leaders are slandered as much as possible, smeared with mud, presented as some kind of monsters. Ivan Vasilievich, Nikolai Pavlovich, Stalin ...
    But Nikolashka is all poor, miserable and misunderstood ...
    1. Van 16
      Van 16 11 July 2020 06: 00 New
      +8
      So Gorbachev and Yeltsin, do not be remembered by night, for the West, too, Dartanyany, damn it ..
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 11 July 2020 10: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: codetalker
      In general, there is such a tendency: the most prominent of our leaders are slandered as much as possible, smeared with mud, presented as some kind of monsters.

      Whom the West fears the most, that it hates, for them they themselves are the worst enemy. The west cannot forgive the birch stick, which has been pained and beaten by our prominent figures for many centuries. The sides still hurt, if they remember. And most importantly, not that they shout, they say, but most importantly that they remember.
    3. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 11 July 2020 11: 15 New
      -2
      codetalker (codetalker)
      In general, there is such a tendency: the most prominent of our leaders are slandered as much as possible, smeared with mud, presented as some kind of monsters. Ivan Vasilievich, Nikolai Pavlovich, Stalin ...
      But Nikolashka is all poor, miserable and misunderstood ...
      I agree, but what side is Nikolai Pavlovich here? In this series are Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Elizabeth Petrovna, Catherine the Great, Alexander III, Lenin, Stalin. Perhaps EVERYTHING !!!
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 11 July 2020 12: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        But how sideways is Nikolai Pavlovich

        Under him, the country was developing, without dashing jerks, but at a very decent pace. In the Crimean War, a coalition of several European powers plus Turkey hardly captured several cities on the outskirts of the country and that’s all.
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 11 July 2020 14: 14 New
          -3
          With all due respect, nothing supernatural happened in his reign, development went to one degree or another under any ruler, including the bloody Nikolaschka. So Nikolay-palkin past the cash register. Under him, Russia did not grow into territories, nor military glory, nor anything. If we supplement this series, then the Grand Dukes of Moscow Dmitry Donskoy and Ivan the Great III, but not Nikolai Pavlovich.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 11 July 2020 15: 33 New
            -1
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            went to one degree or another under any ruler, including during the bloody Nicholas

            Under Nicholas 2, too, everything was far from unambiguous, but Nicholas 1 dealt mainly with internal problems.
            1. Ryaruav
              Ryaruav 11 July 2020 18: 42 New
              +1
              sucks nikolay 1 dealt with internal problems
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 11 July 2020 18: 59 New
                -1
                Quote: Ryaruav
                sucks nikolay 1 practiced

                From the point of view of Soviet historians?
  5. Dart2027
    Dart2027 11 July 2020 06: 41 New
    +3
    As for the defeat from the West, it is not entirely true. Russia fought on two fronts with both the West and the Ottoman Empire, so if it weren’t for this, it could have won.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 11 July 2020 10: 47 New
      +2
      Quote: Dart2027
      Russia fought on two fronts with both the West and the Ottoman Empire

      True said. Not a single Western country has attacked Russia alone, starting with Ivan the Terrible, but always, like a flock of jackals, coders. And no matter how hard they try, Russia will prevail in the biggest battles.
  6. Alex2
    Alex2 11 July 2020 08: 09 New
    -4
    “At one time, a“ historical ”film was released on Western TV, where the topic of allegedly“ 10 million executions by orders of Ivan the Terrible ”was seriously discussed.“ And which film specifically, the name of the film, the author, the studio, on which channels was shown? There, in the West, at least they heard who this Ivan the Terrible was?
  7. Moore
    Moore 11 July 2020 08: 42 New
    +6
    Given the fact that Ivan IV laid ... a staff on the opinion of the collective West, he successfully trolled him (one correspondence with the Swedish king is worth something, and Elizabeth’s proposal to marry him from the same column), created a powerful state - this very West urgently had to invent black PR.
  8. nikvic46
    nikvic46 11 July 2020 08: 46 New
    0
    Those who study history not in books and lectures know history better than us. There would be no Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Elizabeth the Second, Catherine the Great and other great rulers, there would be no our state. All of them are worthy of attention. But it turns out that with each period, some are magnified, while others are vice versa. It all depends on immediate goals.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 11 July 2020 09: 01 New
      +1
      Elizaveta Petrovna, was one, there were no others.
      A small correction.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 11 July 2020 10: 51 New
      0
      Quote: nikvic46
      But it so happens that with each period, some are magnified, while others are vice versa. It all depends on immediate goals.

      To magnify, or not to magnify, this is a temporary matter, today is tomorrow like that. The main thing to remember and not to forget.
    3. Ryaruav
      Ryaruav 11 July 2020 18: 40 New
      0
      Tsar Ivan the 4th he Rurikovich and not cats-dogs
  9. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 11 July 2020 09: 59 New
    +1
    At one time, a “historical” film was released on Western TV, where the topic of allegedly “10 million executions by orders of Ivan the Terrible” was seriously discussed.
    When at that time the population of Russia was only 6,5 million. Believing the West is the same as believing the natives of Africa.
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 11 July 2020 11: 34 New
      0
      Do not offend the Aboriginal people of Africa, they are babies compared to naglosaksami!
  10. Uncle Izya
    Uncle Izya 11 July 2020 10: 05 New
    +2
    Spain drowned in blood the Netherlands and Indians in Latin America what can I say
  11. paul3390
    paul3390 11 July 2020 13: 45 New
    +2
    We are told: Ivan the Terrible is a bloody villain, because he executed innocent boyars. Have you ever seen innocent boyars? Well, if you look around ...
  12. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 11 July 2020 14: 06 New
    +1
    That’s what infuriates me is that anyone who is not lazy inclines the word "liberal" as he wants laughing
    Now we have LDPR in Russia — who’s the one who turns the thread on Zhirinovsky’s name as a liberal? bully
    1. Tank jacket
      Tank jacket 12 July 2020 21: 48 New
      -4
      Zhirik, as all liberals scolded Lavrov. Zhirik does not like how Lavrov raises the status of Russia in foreign policy ...
      -----
      "Today at a government meeting, Foreign Minister Lavrov was awarded. A good occasion, he has an anniversary. But why shake hands? Officials of such a high level should set an example for citizens. After all, hands are the main channel of transmission of infection ... However, not only here this is a problem. Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden started sneezing at all, not even covering his mouth with his hand. This also shows the level of culture, "Zhirinovsky wrote in his Telegram channel.
      ----
      “We see the German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle walking around the Maidan. But the question is, where is our Foreign Minister Sergei Viktorovich Lavrov? Maybe it’s time to leave the office and go there, to the Maidan and defend the national interests of our country there?” "- said the leader of the Liberal Democratic Party.
      Putin misfired Zhirik ...
      "As for the Foreign Minister, he is an intelligent person, and we do not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries: neither the Federal Republic of Germany, nor Ukraine," Putin said.
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 12 July 2020 22: 00 New
        -3
        November 2017, XNUMX
        LDPR leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky said today that Russia needs a tougher foreign policy and another foreign minister instead of Sergei Lavrov.

        “International problems remain, and we believe a tougher line is needed. How would I start if I were president: I would begin by changing the foreign minister. It is no longer suitable for a different situation, today we need another person who will be better than him, ”RIA Novosti conveyed the words of Zhirinovsky
  13. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 11 July 2020 18: 37 New
    +2
    why don’t we call the next apl or atomic icebreaker tsar ivan the 4th
  14. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 12 July 2020 13: 57 New
    -1
    Yeah. Writers, historians, ordinary people - all do not like Grozny ....
    But the Justification Historian knows best of all .... IMHO, some childish arguments ...

    In fact, IMHO, he just freaked a lot. He appointed the king in his place, changed the priests like gloves, a lot of villages for people, waged wars often unsuccessfully and intensely.
    1. Ruudi 34
      Ruudi 34 13 July 2020 15: 12 New
      0
      I wonder how many "Russian patriots" Ivan would put on a stake? And the "liberals"? Yes, Ivan had a problem: liberals didn’t exist then, but “patriots”, although they fed the dogs, were: okay, fat, with beards, and in high hats ... they were called “boyars” .....
  15. Ruudi 34
    Ruudi 34 13 July 2020 15: 08 New
    0
    “Liberals hate Ivan IV ...” Sounds like: capitalists hate feudal lords. Absurdity, some kind. I think Karl Marx would have laughed wildly at this pearl of “Russian patriots.” Well, why should the liberals hate him? "He is a monument .."
  16. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 14 July 2020 09: 46 New
    0
    Russian liberals are ready not only to lick their ass to the west, but also to get into that ass.
  17. Sokol_2
    Sokol_2 29 July 2020 00: 19 New
    0
    For liberians, not only Ivan the Terrible is bad as a strong tsar. Also Peter 1, Catherine 2, Alexander 3, Joseph Stalin, and Vladimir Putin. They even simple Ivan 3, Prince Vladimir, and Ivan Kalita are not the same. Libram likes people like False Dmitry, and especially Peter 3.
  18. Givi_49
    Givi_49 29 July 2020 18: 52 New
    0
    It is quite natural that the West will not forgive Ivan IV for his irreconcilable struggle for the purity of Orthodoxy, which we still sorely lack. Corruption and consumerism have penetrated into all strata of society very deeply. And in the absence of any intelligible ideology in our country, they took its place and became "like an ideology": good is what is sold and consumed; everything that is sold and consumed is good.
    He was probably the first and the last who thought about saving the soul at the state level and did everything he could for this (including Novgorod). And he did not do it when he could no longer (of course, Pskov).
    Teacher.
  19. Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 22 August 2020 19: 36 New
    0
    Liberals hate, but rams admire. Both are good!
  20. misanthrope_2
    misanthrope_2 13 September 2020 19: 27 New
    0
    In Novgorod in 1588, John put things in order, broke off some horns, so they rage.
  21. Ruudi 34
    Ruudi 34 3 October 2020 17: 16 New
    0
    Vanya, what - put the liberals on a stake so that they would hate him? And were there liberals under Van, in general? Are you guys friends with history or are you engaged in propaganda of idiocy?