Liberals hate Ivan IV

One of the most discussed historical figures of Russia - the figure of the autocrat Ivan the Terrible. The number of literary and historical works dedicated to the reign of John IV is in the hundreds. And in these hundreds of works, there is something in common. The so-called hardened liberals, especially the Western liberal elites, are trying to present the Russian tsar as a center of despotism, a bloodthirsty tyrant, the destroyer of millions of Russian destinies.

At one time, a "historical" film was released on Western TV, where the topic of allegedly "10 million executions on the orders of Ivan the Terrible" was discussed with all seriousness. This topic casts doubt on at least some kind of professionalism of the author, who, in an effort to spread propaganda, did not even bother to clarify how many people in the XNUMXth century lived in Moscow and throughout Russia. If I had bothered, I would have realized that I had betrayed an obvious absurdity.

On the Day channel, material appeared in which the historian Andrei Fursov talks about the literally pathological hatred of the so-called collective West and Russian neoliberals towards the personality of Ivan IV. What is it due to? Why is Ivan IV chosen as such a target? The material presents comparative assessments of rulers from different dynasties - Ivan IV and Peter I.

Comments

[Ravik]

After Bartholomew’s night, Ivan the Terrible is fit to go to the preparatory class ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Ravik

After Bartholomew’s night, Ivan the Terrible is fit to go to the preparatory class ...

And how many of these "Bartholomew's nights" were in the west, there are not enough fingers on the bunches and legs to count.

[doubovitski]

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: Ravik

After Bartholomew’s night, Ivan the Terrible is fit to go to the preparatory class ...

And how many of these "Bartholomew's nights" were in the west, there are not enough fingers on the bunches and legs to count.

... and how many evenings? In St. Petersburg, in the Kazan Cathedral - the Museum of Religion and Atheism, it is full of objects used by democratic tolerant Jesuits to convince prisoners to present true testimonies to themselves and their neighbors. In the evening, so, take a walk through the cells in which the defendants are having conversations with their teachers ...... Impressions and healthy experiences will be all night.

[sailor roman]

Ivan the third collector of Russian land from the Moscow principality created mighty Russia with the strength and power of which Europe began to be reckoned with, which at that time was still a separate specific land ownership. As a result of the Russian-Lithuanian war of 1487-1494, most of the Verkhovsk principalities were part of the Russian Orthodox state and Europe froze ...

[Basil50]

Ravik
You're right. But the root of hatred is not the same.
In Europe, they cut their subjects for the sake of the monarch * right * to the massacre. At the same time, you must stand in a pose of nobility with a cross in your hands.
Ivan the Terrible Europeans crumbled without reverence and in huge quantities. But his own state was protected and multiplied. By the way, in MOSCOW then there were numerous school schools for all classes.
The fact that the Romanovs with the help of imported warriors seized the throne explains the hatred of Ivan the Terrible. Three hundred years have worked as historians, writers, theologians (Christians), substantiating * the necessity * of taking the throne and annihilating the Old Believers and Old Believers (they only deported schismatics and strangled them with taxes). It is worth remembering the destruction of state archives and libraries (including private ones), which was arranged by the Romanovs.
For three hundred years, the Romanovs were calibrated with the imported monarchs of Europe, and about them the same relatives wrote and painted so much nasty things. Do you really think that there will be at least something decent about someone to write about. There in Europe and to myself, too, they write and draw a lot of nasty things, and today they shoot films.

[Alexander Kopelevich]

Well, you are probably wrong. Ivan the Terrible did not destroy the Europeans, he even collaborated with foreign countries. Wars are wars, but it was a common thing in Europe at that time, yesterday is war - tomorrow is peace. Even during the Livonian War there were periods of armistice when Grozny claimed the Polish throne and for the first time tried to negotiate and divide the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth with the Habsburgs. He was friends with Denmark, in which he saw an ally against the Commonwealth and Sweden. I closely communicated with Elizabeth of England, gave the British in Russia great privileges, then fell out, really. The only thing that led a hard line was the ban on the entry of Jewish merchants into Russia. Big politics is this - you can never fight to the death and not change your position.

[Van 16]

Looked, or rather listened. I liked it, I agree with many theses absolutely.

[apro]

Hatred of John4 is based on one thing. He created the first centralized state on the territory of Russia. He implemented the principle of autocracy. Thus, he strengthened the state and created a lot of problems of the noble. Boyar freemen ...

[svp67]

Quote: apro

Hatred of John4 is based on one thing. He created the first centralized state on the territory of Russia. He implemented the principle of autocracy. Thus, he strengthened the state and created a lot of problems of the noble. Boyar freemen ...

Yes????? And why is he not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia?

[bober1982]

Quote: svp67

And why is he not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia?

The monument was created in the era of the liberal tsar Alexander II, and what was the time of liberal changes, such is the approach to the choice of those to portray.
Ivan the Terrible at the monument was "replaced" by his first wife, Anastasia

[Pavel57]

The Romanovs are by all standards impostors.

[Alexander Kopelevich]

That way, all monarchs are impostors, except for the Japanese emperor))) Show me at least one country in whose history the dynasty has not changed

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: svp67

And why is he not on the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia?

in connection with the relationship of the Romanovs to him

[svp67]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

in connection with the relationship of the Romanovs to him

Well, what did they have to do with him? After him, they took the throne ... and took possession of the huge state created by him. Not one politician, not before, did not expand so the borders of the Russian state and its economic base

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

and what relation can impostors have to whose level they can never reach?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: apro

Hatred of John4 is based on one thing. He created the first centralized state on the territory of Russia.

The state of Russia, the Russian Kingdom, it was under Ivan the Terrible that it appeared on the maps of the world, and declared itself, even under Grozny, as a state capable of protecting its lands, heaping "gifts" and "lyuly" to any ruler of Europe. In those days, Russia was not a "bone in the throat" for the West, as long as it had its own fossils, forests, production, and Russia did not try to move to the East, handing out "Nuland cookies" only to those who wanted to profit from Russia. But the situation in the XVIIII - early XX century changed in favor of Russia, which became one of the great Empires. It was then that they remembered in the West, "And who is the type who created such a giant? And they had some kind of Vanka, whom even during his lifetime the West called not Vanka, but His Imperial Majesty Ivan the Terrible (I did not specify him Here, as we see now, and it used to be so, and under Grozny nothing changed and does not change, the West remained evil, bilious, envious and mean, and that is why the Tsar of Russia gets the most from the West. Ivan the Terrible, for the fact that he created such a state that makes Europe do everything with an eye on Russia, and if something happens, then not only the "gifts" will be discharged, but they will also pee in the Seine River, and in the Spree River, and in the Vistula. horses will be allowed to do that.
Maybe I messed up, spontaneously wrote, but mine looks more like that.

[codetalker]

In general, there is such a tendency: the most prominent of our leaders are slandered as much as possible, smeared with mud, presented as some kind of monsters. Ivan Vasilievich, Nikolai Pavlovich, Stalin ...
But Nikolashka is all poor, miserable and misunderstood ...

[Van 16]

So Gorbachev and Yeltsin, do not be remembered by night, for the West, too, Dartanyany, damn it ..

[tihonmarine]

Quote: codetalker

In general, there is such a tendency: the most prominent of our leaders are slandered as much as possible, smeared with mud, presented as some kind of monsters.

Whom the West fears the most, that it hates, for them they themselves are the worst enemy. The west cannot forgive the birch stick, which has been pained and beaten by our prominent figures for many centuries. The sides still hurt, if they remember. And most importantly, not that they shout, they say, but most importantly that they remember.

[Varyag_0711]

codetalker (codetalker)
In general, there is such a tendency: the most prominent of our leaders are slandered as much as possible, smeared with mud, presented as some kind of monsters. Ivan Vasilievich, Nikolai Pavlovich, Stalin ...
But Nikolashka is all poor, miserable and misunderstood ...

I agree, but what side is Nikolai Pavlovich here? In this series are Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Elizabeth Petrovna, Catherine the Great, Alexander III, Lenin, Stalin. Perhaps EVERYTHING !!!

[Dart2027]

Quote: Varyag_0711

But how sideways is Nikolai Pavlovich

Under him, the country was developing, without dashing jerks, but at a very decent pace. In the Crimean War, a coalition of several European powers plus Turkey hardly captured several cities on the outskirts of the country and that’s all.

[Varyag_0711]

With all due respect, nothing supernatural happened in his reign, development went to one degree or another under any ruler, including the bloody Nikolaschka. So Nikolay-palkin past the cash register. Under him, Russia did not grow into territories, nor military glory, nor anything. If we supplement this series, then the Grand Dukes of Moscow Dmitry Donskoy and Ivan the Great III, but not Nikolai Pavlovich.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Varyag_0711

went to one degree or another under any ruler, including during the bloody Nicholas

Under Nicholas 2, too, everything was far from unambiguous, but Nicholas 1 dealt mainly with internal problems.

[Ryaruav]

sucks nikolay 1 dealt with internal problems

[Dart2027]

Quote: Ryaruav

sucks nikolay 1 practiced

From the point of view of Soviet historians?

[Dart2027]

As for the defeat from the West, it is not entirely true. Russia fought on two fronts with both the West and the Ottoman Empire, so if it weren’t for this, it could have won.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Dart2027

Russia fought on two fronts with both the West and the Ottoman Empire

True said. Not a single Western country has attacked Russia alone, starting with Ivan the Terrible, but always, like a flock of jackals, coders. And no matter how hard they try, Russia will prevail in the biggest battles.

[Alex2]

"At one time, a" historical "film was released on Western TV, where the topic of allegedly" 10 million executions by the orders of Ivan the Terrible "was seriously discussed. There, in the West, at least have you heard who this Ivan the Terrible is?

[Moore]

Given the fact that Ivan IV laid ... a staff on the opinion of the collective West, he successfully trolled him (one correspondence with the Swedish king is worth something, and Elizabeth’s proposal to marry him from the same column), created a powerful state - this very West urgently had to invent black PR.

[nikvic46]

Those who study history not in books and lectures know history better than us. There would be no Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Elizabeth the Second, Catherine the Great and other great rulers, there would be no our state. All of them are worthy of attention. But it turns out that with each period, some are magnified, while others are vice versa. It all depends on immediate goals.

[bober1982]

Elizaveta Petrovna, was one, there were no others.
A small correction.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: nikvic46

But it so happens that with each period, some are magnified, while others are vice versa. It all depends on immediate goals.

To magnify, or not to magnify, this is a temporary matter, today is tomorrow like that. The main thing to remember and not to forget.

[Ryaruav]

Tsar Ivan the 4th he Rurikovich and not cats-dogs

[tihonmarine]

At one time, a “historical” film was released on Western TV, where the topic of allegedly “10 million executions by orders of Ivan the Terrible” was seriously discussed.

When at that time the population of Russia was only 6,5 million. Believing the West is the same as believing the natives of Africa.

[Varyag_0711]

Do not offend the Aboriginal people of Africa, they are babies compared to naglosaksami!

[Uncle Izya]

Spain drowned in blood the Netherlands and Indians in Latin America what can I say

[paul3390]

We are told: Ivan the Terrible is a bloody villain, because he executed innocent boyars. Have you ever seen innocent boyars? Well, if you look around ...

[Virus-free crown]

That's what "pisses me off" - it's that everyone who is not lazy can inflect the word "liberal" as he wants
Now we have LDPR in Russia — who’s the one who turns the thread on Zhirinovsky’s name as a liberal?

[Tank jacket]

Zhirik, as all liberals scolded Lavrov. Zhirik does not like how Lavrov raises the status of Russia in foreign policy ...
-----
"Today, at a government meeting, Foreign Minister Lavrov was awarded. Good reason, he has an anniversary. But why shake hands at the same time? Officials of such a high level should set an example to citizens. After all, hands are the main channel for transmitting infection ... However, not only in our country this problem. US presidential candidate from the Democratic Party Joe Biden began to sneeze in front of everyone, not covering his mouth even with just his hand. This also shows the level of culture, "Zhirinovsky wrote in his Telegram channel.
----
“We see how German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle walks around the Maidan. And the question is, where is our Foreign Minister Sergei Viktorovich Lavrov? ", - said the leader of the Liberal Democratic Party.
Putin misfired Zhirik ...
"As for the foreign minister, he is an intelligent person in our country, and we do not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries: neither the Federal Republic of Germany, nor Ukraine," Putin said.

[Tank jacket]

November 2017, XNUMX
LDPR leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky said today that Russia needs a tougher foreign policy and another foreign minister instead of Sergei Lavrov.

“International problems remain, and we believe a tougher line is needed. How would I start if I were president: I would begin by changing the foreign minister. It is no longer suitable for a different situation, today we need another person who will be better than him, ”RIA Novosti conveyed the words of Zhirinovsky

[Ryaruav]

why don’t we call the next apl or atomic icebreaker tsar ivan the 4th

[Aleks2000]

Yeah. Writers, historians, ordinary people - all do not like Grozny ....
But the Justification Historian knows best of all .... IMHO, some childish arguments ...

In fact, IMHO, he just freaked a lot. He appointed the king in his place, changed the priests like gloves, a lot of villages for people, waged wars often unsuccessfully and intensely.

[Ruudi 34]

I wonder how many "Russian patriots" Ivan would have impaled? And what about the "liberals"? But Ivan has a problem: there were no liberals then, but there were "patriots", even if you feed the dogs, there were: okay, fat, with beards, but in tall hats ... "boyars" were called ...

[Ruudi 34]

"Liberals hate Ivan IV ..." Sounds like: capitalists hate feudal lords. Absurd, of some kind. I think Karl Marx would have laughed wildly over this pearl of "Russian patriots." Well, why should the liberals hate him? "He's a monument .."

[Stalnov I.P.]

Russian liberals are ready not only to lick their ass to the west, but also to get into that ass.

[Sokol_2]

For liberians, not only Ivan the Terrible is bad as a strong tsar. Also Peter 1, Catherine 2, Alexander 3, Joseph Stalin, and Vladimir Putin. They even simple Ivan 3, Prince Vladimir, and Ivan Kalita are not the same. Libram likes people like False Dmitry, and especially Peter 3.

[Givi_49]

It is quite natural that the West will not forgive Ivan IV for his irreconcilable struggle for the purity of Orthodoxy, which we still sorely lack. Corruption and consumerism have penetrated into all strata of society very deeply. And in the absence of any intelligible ideology in our country, they took its place and became "like an ideology": good is what is sold and consumed; everything that is sold and consumed is good.
He was probably the first and the last who thought about saving the soul at the state level and did everything he could for this (including Novgorod). And he did not do it when he could no longer (of course, Pskov).
Teacher.

[Sergey Sfiedu]

Liberals hate, but rams admire. Both are good!

[misanthrope_2]

In Novgorod in 1588, John put things in order, broke off some horns, so they rage.

[Ruudi 34]

Vanya, what - put the liberals on a stake so that they would hate him? And were there liberals under Van, in general? Are you guys friends with history or are you engaged in propaganda of idiocy?