MC-21 certification is delayed due to restrictions on foreigners

According to Industry Minister D. Manturov, the reason for the postponement of certification of the Russian MC-21 aircraft was the coronavirus pandemic. First of all, related to it restrictions on movement for foreigners.

During a pandemic, access to foreign specialists in Russia is virtually closed. It was difficult to move around the country and the Russian participants in the cooperation. Therefore, we are now receiving a certificate of the Russian type is expected around mid-2021. And a year later - European. In this case, the first commercial aircraft can be shipped to the operator at the end of 2021

- said Manturov.

At the same time, it is worth noting that the PD-14 engine, which is planned to be installed on a new airliner, managed to pass full certification in Russia, and the European one is scheduled for the end of 2022. It was then that the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) should give its “good”.

It is planned that flight tests will pass two aircraft MS-21. One of the gliders has already been assembled at the Irkutsk Aircraft Plant, and now they are assembling the layout of systems, primarily PD-14 engines. In the fourth quarter of this year, its transfer to flight tests is planned. Their completion will take place in the second quarter of 2022.

MC-21 is known to surpass its foreign counterparts in a number of indicators. MC-21-300 can carry, depending on the layout, from 165 to 211 passengers at a distance of up to 6000 km. Its maximum take-off weight is 79250 kg. In turn, the A320neo in a two-class layout can carry only 150-180 people. During test flights of the basic modification of the MC-21-300, the maximum values ​​of the following indicators were achieved: flight altitude of 12,5 thousand meters, speed of 949 kilometers per hour, flight duration of 6,2 hours. These are also better indicators than their western counterparts. Airbus Corporation about its A320neo says the following: the maximum height is not more than 11,8 thousand meters with a maximum speed of 876 km / h. The maximum flight altitude of the basic version of the Boeing 737 - 737MAX 8 - is 12,3 thousand meters, and its maximum speed is 925 kilometers per hour.

The number of orders for the MS-21 is stably kept at 175 aircraft. The number of orders under agreements of intent is 150 units.

Comments

[pavelty]

How is that wing normal? optimists sucks ...

[St Petrov]

Everything at them rests against foreigners. We fly in our own country.

need to read the article. Petrov will not advise bad.

During a pandemic, access to foreign specialists in Russia is virtually closed.

[Bar1]

Quote: c-Petrov

Everything at them rests against foreigners. We fly in our own country.

need to read the article. Petrov will not advise bad.

During a pandemic, access to foreign specialists in Russia is virtually closed.

Well, what does this mean?

[donavi49]

The fact that foreign systems cannot be certified even for their certificate.

[Bar1]

Quote: donavi49

The fact that foreign systems cannot be certified even for their certificate.

you must set your own, not foreign_ranny.
The Arctic fox, how many superfluous words has been said FOR YEARS, what kind of aircraft it is, it is the PRIDE of this Putin Russia, but in reality, as is usually not ours, it is disgusting from this air company.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Bar1

you must set your own, not foreign_ranny.

For this, at least, there should be a comprehensive program for the development of domestic civil aviation. And where is it?
Putinism is not capable of creation.

[Bar1]

Quote: Stroporez

Quote: Bar1

you must set your own, not foreign_ranny.

For this, at least, there should be a comprehensive program for the development of domestic civil aviation. And where is it?
Putinism is not capable of creation.

Putinism is a colonial administration acting to please foreign capital and always to the detriment of the Russian people.

[donavi49]

But no one puts it. For example, a certification and testing cycle costs 10005000 + development of another car + production = as a result, even for 500 sets, these are all-in-one platinum installations for money. Therefore, all sorts of large companies make them and sell them immediately to everyone. Everyone benefits:
- The contingent Hamilton standard produces valves and fuel systems in the thousands, making a profit.
- Conditional Boeing, Airbus, Irkut put a reliable and certified system with service support and logistics, without wasting money, time, without laying additional risks.
- a passenger buys a ticket for a reasonable price, and not 8 times more expensive if you make the plane completely from scratch, laying all expenses and certifications, and most importantly wild risks and even more wild insurance in the price of the board.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Bar1

you must set your own, not foreign_ranny.

No problem. But at the same time, either the ticket price will fly sky high (airlines will need to beat off the sharply increased price of the plane), or the plane will be operated only in subsidized state-owned companies, without any prospect of exporting. Fully localized production rolls only for military orders, where the customer has no other options.

And you will be the first to curse the authorities for nothing in vain spent money and inability to use world experience - they say built an expensive coffin with wings that no one buys; Well, why it was impossible to do like a Boeing - to assemble serial components from around the world from well-known manufacturers.

[Bar1]

Quote: Alexey RA

But at the same time, either the ticket price will skyrocket

No, if you do yours, then ALWAYS our spare parts will be cheaper than import.
And in addition, the cost of a product or service depends on the TARIFFS for gasoline / kerosene, the cost of land, the rental of anything, the salaries of the tops, etc. so that’s not the point.
How much can you TAKE our aircraft industry?

[AU Ivanov.]

Have we ever had it, our competitive aviation industry? So, we’re not ruining, but, almost for the first time, trying to build a world-class car.

[bayard]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Have we ever had it, our competitive aviation industry?

Of course it was - a third of the world fleet flew Soviet planes. At that time, the price of fuel was low and the efficiency of engines was not a critical condition.
Now the industry is being recreated from scratch. They refused carbon fiber - their production appeared.
They refused the components - now it is being decided on their production in Russia.
It is expensive .
And it doesn’t come out quickly.
But they left us no other way - we will make airplanes in domestic configuration. Maybe over time it will become our winning chip.

[Bar1]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

Have we ever had it, our competitive aviation industry? So, we’re not ruining, but, almost for the first time, trying to build a world-class car.

I don’t remember for the Ivanovs of kinship, I recall that there was such a USSR state that produced HUNDREDS of planes and helicopters a year, and ALL the equipment was OWN, not foreign. And the tickets were KOPEYKI, and not, as now, THOUSAND rubles.

[AU Ivanov.]

Yeah, let out. Hundreds of technically retarded planes eating kerosene, like hippo brooms. With primitive avionics, as a result of which there were 4-5 member crews. But your shit doesn't smell right? And tickets cost not so cheap: from Peter to Vladik a ticket cost 122 rubles, as I remember now - the whole salary of a young engineer. Now - 20 sput, no difference.

[Bar1]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Yeah, let out.

Arctic fox and it’s called Ivanov, always for Russia.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

"Putin's Russians" - you have completely beguiled the shores

[Vadim237]

It’s time in Russia to open dreams of enormous number of madhouses and psychiatric dispensaries - motley loonies and morons developed immeasurably.

[bayard]

The "world community" will be against it - there will be no one to take out to the protest actions.

[AlexSam]

they need all to be exported to pin.dosia, only there was, is and will be paradise on earth and there is no Putin ...

[Bar1]

and this is said by the one who fiercely and furiously sputtered on the screen for amers on the moon. Your words are not worth a penny.

[Bar1]

Quote: Vadim237

It’s time in Russia to open dreams of enormous number of madhouses and psychiatric dispensaries - motley loonies and morons developed immeasurably.

and this is said by the one who fiercely and furiously sputtered saliva on the screen for the amers on the moon. Your words are not worth a penny - a collaborator.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Bar1

, disgusted by this aircraft.

do not you disgust from reflection in the mirror?

[Fungus]

The wing is excellent. They began to do their job after the Americans throw. MC 21 is the best aircraft in the world at the moment.

[210ox]

AND! Unparalleled! No, of course - an airplane is badly needed for domestic airlines in order to move away from dependence, at least for flights within the country. And about the best .. Well, let's hope.

[Hhrist]

Quote: 210ox

AND! Unparalleled!

Not having one.
Get used to the new-old terminology.
True, "unparalleled" in Soviet means "shit, no one else in the world needs."

[Cottodraton]

It's like straight about you. You are also a "unparalleled bot" here ... well, you understand

[keeper03]

All feed us Wishlist! Is it weak to launch a liner on domestic airlines? Or will we say that he is the best, but he did not stand on the wing?!?

[Mountain shooter]

The wing is NORMAL, carbon fiber suppliers were REPLACED in Russian, tests were carried out! Information has long passed ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

The wing is NORMAL, carbon fiber suppliers were REPLACED in Russian, tests were carried out! Information has long passed ...

As a result, they did not make a single wing of their own ...
For the third year, he went, as shown on TV, as in Ulyanovsk they began to weave wings ...
But not one was intertwined ...
So we are waiting for a few more years.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: SovAr238A

As a result, they did not make a single wing of their own ..

Do not lie!!!

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Quote: SovAr238A

As a result, they did not make a single wing of their own ..

Do not lie!!!

Show the article in which the Russian carbon fiber wings are shown on a assembled plane ...
That's all.
Do not need anything else.
What is written, what exactly is assembled, and sent to the assembly.
And not "we are doing, they will be soon, etc." ..

And all.

In the meantime - only you are lying!

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: SovAr238A

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Quote: SovAr238A

As a result, they did not make a single wing of their own ..

Do not lie!!!

Show the article in which the Russian carbon fiber wings are shown on a assembled plane ...
That's all.
Do not need anything else.
What is written, what exactly is assembled, and sent to the assembly.
And not "we are doing, they will be soon, etc." ..

And all.

In the meantime - only you are lying!

https://tass.ru/ekonomika/6248945 заметка от 22 марта 19 года. Много времени прошло... Уже.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

https://tass.ru/ekonomika/6248945

I asked about the finished wings mounted on assembled aircraft ... and not about the first details ...

Those. you are not able to find anything real, which is what we are talking about ...

There are no wings! And the point.


Though get out of my way.
But the wings of your minuses and minuses of your fellow tribesmen. the same astonishing manuals, will not increase.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: SovAr238A

Though get out of my way.
But the wings of your minuses and minuses of your fellow tribesmen. the same astonishing manuals, will not increase.

For those in an armored train. It was made 8 sets of wings, after which there were sanctions and a ban on the supply of carbon fiber. 6 aircraft were built so far ... Should I have thrown away ALL the finished wings, to please ukrootrollyak? We managed to replace, test, and are ready to produce further from our ... So is it more understandable?

[Nastia makarova]

nonsense of adherents of bulk

[Nastia makarova]

nonsense in all your topics

[DPN]

We are delayed, but why do the adversaries sleep peacefully?

[Cowbra]

No one is sleeping. A similar liner in Japan - generally removed from development, Bombardier generally ended office. Wisely with competitors - everything ...

[St Petrov]

also with the superjet and its competitors (Europe, China, Japan)

[5-9]

Which one is similar? MRJ, may peace be upon him and he was even less than Surzhik. Bombardier is now Binh ...

[Nasrat]

There are no comparisons in the article in terms of fuel consumption between competitors ... and there are no other "economic" characteristics ... but for operating companies this is a very significant point ... and if the plane flies higher, farther, faster, but eats and makes noise disproportionately to competitors - then the operators will refuse it ...

[K-612-O]

In general, the higher the less you eat, and you can avoid flying at maximum, Boeing also flies 800-850, on a cruising one, at the airbase, respectively, less. Here the route already matters and the echelon congestion

[loki565]

Actually, the higher the less you eat.

Not quite so, Tu154 flies higher and eats more)))

[mark2]

Buy a plane and read the instructions. Everything is written there. And about the expense and about the range.

[bayard]

Quote: Nasr

The article does not compare fuel consumption between competitors ... and there are no other "economic" characteristics.

Compared to the Boeing 737 of the latest version, in terms of fuel consumption per passenger per 1 km. flight, MS-21 is 15% more economical.
Compared with the A-320 \ 321, the MS-21 is already 25–35% more profitable.
These are very serious numbers. But they still need confirmation by practical operation. So far this is a comparison of tabular data. I will not give a table - I am writing from memory. Google yourself.

[5-9]

Yes, the whole trinity (737, 320, MS-21) +/- 5% by TTX ... ours seems to be a little better.

[snucerist]

And why is this news? With such a title?
The fact that another miracle in the world has been created in a miracle does not surprise anyone.
But what does certification with foreign specialists have to do with it?
If at the moment only one of the gliders is assembled and everything else is being installed? And only in the fourth quarter of this year is it planned to be transferred to flight tests? Their completion will take place in the second quarter of 2022.
What kind of certification delay can we talk about today?

[K-612-O]

Without European certification, it is needed only domestically, and to remind you that more than 1 million people flew from Europe only in March. Tourists damn it.
All the same, this plane should provide flights for our companies, and nowhere without Europe.
By the way, to fly to Asia, that certificate is needed, European.

[snucerist]

So what to certify if the car has not even started flight tests ???
Think about the meaning of the title!
What can be certified today? Paper TTX?

[Red Dragon]

The machine has been in flight tests since 2017. You are confusing something

[snucerist]

I just read very carefully not only the title, but the article itself.
And then I try to understand its meaning. Direct Quote:
“It is planned that two MC-21 aircraft will undergo flight tests. One of the airframes has already been assembled at the Irkutsk aircraft plant, and now the assembly of systems is underway, primarily PD-14 engines. It is planned to transfer it for flight tests in the fourth quarter of this year. will take place in the second quarter of 2022. "
What to certify TODAY ???
Foreign specialists?

[avg]

The tests will be carried out by machines with PD-14. It is assumed that operating costs of PD-14 will be 14-17% lower than that of existing similar engines, and the life cycle cost is 15-20% lower. (Previously flight tested with a PW1400G engine from the Canadian company Pratt & Whitney.)

[Red Dragon]

From the article it is difficult to understand what kind of delay is being said. I understand that about the option with Pratt and Whitney engines.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: K-612-O

Without European certification, it is needed only domestically, and to remind you that more than 1 million people flew from Europe only in March. Tourists damn it.

A wedge of light on European certificates did not converge? Engage on domestic lines, and how the virus will end, certify anything from tourists from Europe. In short, it smells like another excuse. I’m waiting for a guy from the Far East, it seems that he will fly on a Boeing, as usual, in recent years.

[slipped]

Side painting

[Courier]

Unfortunately, civil aviation will be restored to the levels of 5 for another 2019 years.

[askort154]

It seems that the author of the article is the first time he entered the topic of aviation. As they say, the first pancake is lumpy. Only this "lump" is difficult for a professional to master. Sheer naivety, hung with incompetent figures of flight technical data, voiced by him types of aircraft.

[mvg]

What difference does it make for a passenger to fly 10 thousand meters or 11 thousand? What is needed is not maximum speed, but cruising. Need fuel consumption in an economical mode, motor resources, services at airports. Trim and cost of the aircraft. If only Russia, it’s hard. And how much imported on board? There, like, alien avionics.
And then there is the C919 and Embriere, China and Brazilians in this class. And those performance characteristics that are in the article are not even of interest to the military. Pushed to the market to return

[5-9]

In this class, 737MAX and 320neo .... well, and C919. Like no one else

[mvg]

Like no one else

In January of this year, Boeing bought Embraer. Actually, C919 ~ $ 60 million, MS-21 ~ $ 90 million, west $ 110-115 million. Who will they buy? Boeing 40 aircraft per month.

[Doccor18]

TU, IL, AN, YAK, BE - 5 aviation scientific and production associations, each of which created world-class aircraft. The large market of the USSR was closed, and even built for export.
Someone is still vilifying the USSR, and now ... They cannot create one project themselves, in cooperation with foreigners, and then sanctions ... and that’s all ....

[donavi49]

With the world level is very controversial. Rather, until the 70s they were at the level, and then they began to stagnate. They slept wide-body, slept through automation, slept through fuel efficiency. As a result, by the mid-70s, in fact, even in the top three countries were not leaders.

[Doccor18]

even in the top three countries were not.

Come on...
But now in the top three ....
Built on a hundred boards per year. Tens of millions flew across the country and abroad. And now? Some ancient Boeing and Airbuses fly around the country. The entire Great Soviet Aviation Industry was killed.

[Vadim237]

And now all that Soviet planes do not answer is because the economy is now market in which profitability during operation is a decisive factor.

[donavi49]

A hundred boards per year is not an indicator. Especially if you look at competitors.
Now they fly more than in the USSR, but on foreign cars and on different airlines, and not on one state one.
Ancient Boeing and Airbuses fly only in third-rate AKs that balance on the brink of bankruptcy. The Reds (Nordwind) are less than 10 years old. The greens (S7) have 8 years. In Victory in general, the novice only flies.

The great Soviet industry did not fall into any trend after the mid-60s. And in the 70s, a backward movement generally began. Technology, approaches, and more decides. And not riveting Tu-124/134/154 / Il18 / 62 according to the plan. As a result, when in the West they flew in triples and carried out certification for deuces, in the USSR the flight crew was 5 people. When in the west they began to make airbus and MD and other wide-body, in the USSR they considered this a bourgeois excess, rejecting all projects in favor of building up the plan. When they caught on with Il-86, the train was already leaving for the next generation, which in the 2000s completely killed all 4-engine passenger aircraft.

[Imperial Technocrat]

Cool plane. Another X-32 to add, and generally cool

[bar]

Therefore, we are now receiving a certificate of the Russian type is expected around mid-2021.

Those. is it impossible to fly in Russia without foreign approval? Interesting movie. Did you also get permission from the adversaries for the old TUSHKS?

[Hhrist]

Quote: bar

Did you also get permission from the adversaries for the old TUSHKS?

If for flights abroad, then received.

[donavi49]

It is impossible to conduct certification tests without the participation of company representatives. And there are 35-40% of foreign komplektuhi.

[loki565]

To fly to Europe? Yes, they received, and many were wrapped in noise (Tu-134, Il-62, Il-86 and Il-76)

[iouris]

If memory serves, the results of the confirmation of compliance of vehicles with the UNECE Regulations are recognized in any UNECE member state. The results of aircraft certification carried out in the Russian Federation are not recognized by the "colleagues". This is dependence and unequal "cooperation". Coronavirus restrictions could be permanently imposed.

[Zaurbek]

Why compare seats with the A320? Let it fly, earn a reputation.

[23424636]

Dima Badminton, before his discharge, allowed Manturov to buy 74 mid-range airplanes from Airbus and Boeing. And there are considerable kickbacks and other beggars, and why do these guys need MC-21. If according to Stalin, then this Manturov had to be put to the wall for damage to the country. But here the slogan is different - the cache is above all.

[Hhrist]

Quote: 23424636

allowed Manturov to purchase 74 mid-range airplanes from Airbus and Boeing. and there are considerable kickbacks and other beggars, and why do these guys need MC-21.

You are talking nonsense.
They did not know how to build airplanes in the USSR.
And in the Russian Federation do not know how. Therefore, until you learn (if you still learn) what to fly on? On flying Soviet coffins?
So kerosene is now not free, as it was for Aeroflot in the USSR.
And without free kerosene "Soviet planes" (these are not real planes, these are ersatz planes) no one needs.

[sevryuk]

I have to say "Ku!" and put bells in your nostrils. And so, compare how many people flew on "coffins" before 1990, and how many now on racially correct Boeing and Airbus.

[Hhrist]

Quote: sevryuk

I have to say "Ku!" and put bells in your nostrils.

All in your hands. Take action.

Quote: sevryuk

And so, compare how many people flew on "coffins" before 1990, and how many now on racially correct Boeing and Airbus.

Who cares?
It is important that the planes (real) are planes.
And "Soviet aircraft" are "Soviet aircraft".
Both fly. Only in different ways.
Everyone needs planes from the ability to fly normally. And "Soviet planes", from the inability to do this, after the collapse of the USSR, became unnecessary for anyone.
Herein lies their fundamental difference.

[sevryuk]

All aircraft with wings, motors and pilots are real aircraft. Soviet aircraft met these criteria quite well. The question of economy existed, but if the alternative is to be without aircraft at all after the next sanctions (like Iran), then okay. But in the case of the MS-21, it is about becoming more economical than aircraft from countries where people live "with bright faces" and where "shining hailstones on the hills."
In my opinion, an interesting task.

[Hhrist]

Quote: sevryuk

All aircraft with wings, motors and pilots are real aircraft.

Nifiga.
Just as Porsche is different from Constipation, so is Boeing different from Tu.

Quote: sevryuk

but if the alternative is to be completely without planes after the next sanctions (like Iran),

Nefig was around the world to not allow normal people to live. The evil empire, it was very accurately said about him.

Quote: sevryuk

But in the case of the MS-21, it is about becoming more economical than aircraft from countries where people live "with bright faces" and where "shining hailstones on the hills."

Even the statement of such a problem is ridiculous.
After the SSJ100, you should at least not make the mistakes that exist in SSJ.
And SSJ is a corpse. He has no future after Shermety. There the world saw all his "charms" in close-up. Constructors-krivoruchki, damn it.

Quote: sevryuk

In my opinion, an interesting task.

Unrealizable in principle.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

"And SSJ is a corpse. After Shermetevo he has no future. There the world saw all of his" charms "in close-up.
And here it is possible in more detail, what do the designers have to do with it, when there the pilots, when landing, managed to double-beat the plane about the runway !?

[Cottodraton]

Ssj was made by the whole world. This is an international project. There is a big question, who is the "constructor-kryvoruchka", mister "having no Analogs"

[iouris]

Quote: 23424636

... this Manturov was necessary ...

Manturov is not a surname, this is a position.

[yoshkovoleg]

It is clear: one more reason was sucked out of the finger, so as not to bring to production ...

[Vadim237]

It is already being produced for flight tests and firm orders are available.

[Liam]

Quote: Vadim237

firm orders are available.

From whom?

[Alexey from Perm]

Our western "partners" always wish us well))

[Nikolay87]

I, for other reasons, believe in its superiority over analogues, only after it is certified, the normal number is riveted and it flies stably for 5 years. Until then, he is on the list of everything else with a hashtag that has no analogues in the world

[Alexey RA]

During a pandemic, access to foreign specialists in Russia is virtually closed. It was difficult to move around the country and the Russian participants in the cooperation. Therefore, we are now receiving a certificate of the Russian type is expected around mid-2021.

The familiar picture. So we sat down with a certificate for the elevator: the manufacturer of the elevators shipped, promised a new certificate ... and then sent a letter that the representatives of the certification body are not allowed out of the Russian Federation, and without their personal visit to the factory, none of the certification officers will draw up anything, because they don’t want to fall under the ax-head. The old certificate ended in March, but there is no new one in the near future.

[Snail N9]

There is always something to a bad dancer, but it interferes .... Vaughn Boeing gives its accumulated in warehouses, "disgraced" 737 practically free of charge, just to take it ... What, here, MS or SSJ ...

[5-9]

Are there organizers of mass deaths who are ready to take them and mass suicides ready to buy tickets for this flying coffin?

[boris]

Comrade Hhrist belongs to that category of citizens, for
which everything Western is always better than Soviet / Russian.
Just because it is western. But take and compare
over the whole range of parameters. These parameters on
really a lot - cost, reliability,
maintenance costs, loading of their enterprises
(a large number of enterprises), their employment
workers, engineers, designers in many high-tech
major industries and much more.
By the way, fuel efficiency in this list on
actually not such an important parameter as about it
They say in advertising. Oil in Russia is its own and there is a lot of it.
If you think carefully, it will become clear that the West
significant aircraft purchased for currency, significant
part of which comes from the sale of this very oil
and other natural resources. Still need to calculate which
part of the cost of the total cost of the life cycle
aircraft make up the cost of the actual fuel,
and how much does the aircraft cost and its maintenance costs
living and training of flight personnel abroad.
Surely it turns out that the production and operation
own equipment will be much cheaper
purchase and operation of imported equipment.

[Old26]

Quote: Imperial Technocrat

Cool plane. Another X-32 to add, and generally cool

Brains did not try to think, "technocrat" sofa ???

[Vadim237]

At its base, a good anti-submarine aircraft in the future can come out.

[Wolf]

TTX comparation for civil aircraft is out of date! It is necessary to add fuel costs per passenger, and the cost of those services, as well as the cycle times of those services. A wonderful liner, and you need to quickly go to market, in 2021 with PD 14 engines.