Military Review

US Coastal Defense Ships: Recognized Mistake and Landfill in Perspective

90

Seem to be, история, which began in 2008, begins to end. The so-called ships of the coastal zone of the US Navy go for conservation.


We wrote about the fact that there is a ship of LCS class, and now we begin, apparently, to observe the last act of the performance.

Coastal Warships: Modern Approach.

According to Defense News, 20.06.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX, at the U.S. Navy summit meeting, a landmark decision was made to place four LCS class ships for long-term conservation.

The release states that the USS Freedom, USS Independence, USS Fort Worth and USS Coronado ships should be put into reserve and mothballed by March 2021.

In general, the plans of the US Navy were to transfer these ships to the division for the development of tactics of surface combat weapons, the so-called First Squadron of surface developments.

In this squadron, in addition to four LCS, the plan was to have four destroyers of the Zamvolt class (one of which is still under construction) and the unmanned surface ship Sea Hunter.

In fact, this is simply an epoch-making recognition that the ships, on which more than one billion dollars were spent, were worthless for anything. Even the role of test and training ships.


Meanwhile, the ships cannot be called old. The first was ready in 2008, the last of the four in 2014. Fresh enough ships, right? However, for some reason they were used as experimental and experimental ships.

But here’s what the U.S. Navy Rear Admiral Randy Kreits, deputy assistant naval secretary, told the press in an official statement. fleet on a budget. And he said just at the reporting press briefing, devoted precisely to the fleet’s expenses for 2021.

“These four experimental ships played an important role in squeezing everything out of them to study the capabilities of crew service, maintenance, and many other things that we needed to learn from their operation. But they (LCS ships. - Approx. Aut.) Are configured differently from other littoral ships in the fleet, and require significant modernization. Everything from military to structural systems, as you call them. These ships are too expensive to upgrade. ”

Overall unprecedented recognition. It turns out that the four ships of the first two series are no longer suitable even for the role of training.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Navy has never made statements on how much the cost of upgrading LCS ships can be. Specifically, these four. It is clear that the subsequent ships in the series are significantly different from the first models. And the first ships were to catch up with the next generation, but the fleet command did not imagine that the volume of alterations would be so significant.

Meanwhile, the fleet continues to accept previously ordered LCS class ships. This year, the USS Oakland Independence class was delivered to the fleet. And it is not clear how the latest ship is suitable for use.

The navy is strikingly trying to solve the problem of the normal functioning of the modules. To date, there are three operational modules for LCS ships. The first is mine, when the ship can function as a mine-layer and minesweeper, the second is anti-submarine and the third is a patrol with anti-submarine options.

Initially, the LCS ship plan was just fine. Quickly installed modules made it possible to configure the ship for immediate tasks. Today you need to mine mines - not a question. Tomorrow, according to the plan, patrolling - removed some modules, put others - and at sea.

That was the essence of the whole LCS program.


But during the tests it suddenly became clear that it wasn’t such a simple matter to rearrange the modules back and forth. As a result, it was decided to return to the scheme of average configuration or installation on different ships of one group of modules for different tasks.

Alas, this deprived of flexibility the entire system of specialization of ships. Moreover, the presence on a permanent basis of ships of different configurations significantly weakened the capabilities of a group of ships.

The very idea of ​​flexible management under the changing conditions of the day turned out to be unviable.

The capabilities of ships with modules installed for specific tasks turned out to be somewhat worse than everyone expected. Especially in terms of firepower. Therefore, work is currently underway to increase the combat capabilities of ships, for example, adding missile launchers for the RGM-148A (NSM). The US Navy command believes that by doing so it will at least slightly increase the combat power of the ships.

In general, having worked out all the possible applications at LCS, the US Navy came to the shocking conclusion: it’s easier and more profitable to build the same frigates to protect coastal marine areas. A frigate is a ship with a wider range of applications than LCS, its second advantage is the minute-by-minute readiness to fulfill the tasks within the capabilities of the ship.


And, back in 2017, when they had just begun to draw conclusions about the insolvency of LCS class ships, the U.S. Navy Command turned to the American company Marinette Marine, a subsidiary of the Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri, in order to develop and build a ship based on the French-Italian project Fregata Europea Multi-Missione (FREMM), or the so-called European multi-purpose frigate.


It is clear that after the extensive construction costs of 18 LCS class ships, Congress did not appreciate the budgetary costs of building 10 new FFG (X) S class ships.

Moreover, congressmen generally want to block the retirement of USS Fort Worth and USS Coronado. Until clarification of circumstances. The military budget, even in the United States, is not unlimited. Moreover, ten frigates are ten frigates.

As for the entire LCS project, certificates are required from the Navy leadership in Congress that all operational tests on all modules of the project have been successfully completed. In addition to the mine action, the tests of which are still underway and will end only in 2022.

But this slight delay does not add optimism to anyone.

But in general, everything in terms of the LCS program is very complicated. It’s not that “the dacha at the neighbor’s house was burnt, a trifle, but nice”, but the reality is this: even littoral ships cannot really retire.

First, the Navy will have to complete all the tests, then draw up all the necessary documents, the so-called NDA, to coordinate them before sending them to the Congress for voting. After that, documents can already get on the table to Trump, who will decide the fate of the ships. As the first four, and all the rest.

No matter how many of the first four LCS ships eventually retire, their future is still uncertain. The Navy assigned them the status “out of order, in reserve”. It is clear that the possibility of using LCS ships in the future remains, but it does not look very confident.


Already today it is clear that the US Navy with great pleasure would send these ships not only to the reserve, but to hell. On the needles.

There is only doubt that Congress and Trump will so easily satisfy the desire of American sailors.

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  1. alma
    alma 7 July 2020 05: 23 New
    20
    during the tests it suddenly became clear that it wasn’t such a simple matter to rearrange the modules back and forth. As a result, it was decided to return to the scheme of average configuration or installation on different ships of one group of modules for different tasks

    As required.
    Stone in the vegetable garden of projects 22160 and 20386.
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 7 July 2020 05: 50 New
      13
      but it’s in the wrong eye, and it’s in our recourse And ours will cut the log for a long time and hard
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 7 July 2020 06: 01 New
        -3
        Quote: Tlauicol
        but it’s in the wrong eye, and it’s in ours And ours will cut the log for a long time and hard

        If something like this were built with zero, the matvienko currency would have broken its hands with applause laughing
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 7 July 2020 10: 44 New
          12
          Quote: Stroporez
          If something like this were built with zero, the matvienko currency would have broken its hands with applause

          So they built it - pr. 22160. Former PSKR, by the will of the commander-in-chief Chirkov, fell into the fleet.
          Now the Navy is thinking - what to do with these "doves of peace". And at the same time - how to provide PLO in the area of ​​the fleet bases, because 22160 "gobbled up" the "PLO corvette" developed for the Navy, and the Soviet "Albatrosses" have already been released for three decades.
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 7 July 2020 08: 48 New
        +4
        Quote: Tlauicol
        but it’s in the wrong eye, and it’s in ours And ours will cut the log for a long time and hard

        The United States has problems - "cutting the unnecessary - build the necessary", China - "if we have built, then we will build more", Russia has no such problems.
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 7 July 2020 06: 46 New
      16
      And how is this stone in these projects? 20386 - corvette (frigate according to some estimates) of the near and far sea zone, 2 rank. 22160 - close range patrol ship, rank 3. No replaceable modules, no "entered the port, changed the module, went to sea". The modular principle is used only during construction, allowing the installation of various weapons in a single body. That significantly reduces the cost of the design and simplifies the upgrade in the series. Armament allows you to snap quite painfully and dump under the protection of coastal troops. And more is not needed for, in fact, patrol ships.
      1. Avior
        Avior 7 July 2020 06: 57 New
        -1
        . Project 22160 patrol ships of the "Vasily Bykov" type - a series of Russian patrol ships (corvettes) with guided missile weapons of the near and far sea zone

        This is such a miracle.
        Missile weapons without missiles, corvette without PLO, either near or far zone
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 July 2020 07: 06 New
          10
          You are not looking at the wiki, but at the actual dimensions of the ship. 22160 patrol, near zone. What is declared there - you can write anything. This, by the way, is already a stone in the LCS project.
          And we need patrolmen, for the old guard will soon write off, they are already left with a gulkin nose.
          1. Avior
            Avior 7 July 2020 07: 23 New
            -5
            The actual dimensions for the near zone are large, for the far zone small.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 08: 35 New
            +6
            We need PLO corvettes for BMZ, and not this trash which has exactly one gun from a weapon.
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 08: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: Wedmak
        No replaceable modules, no "entered the port, changed the module, went to sea".


        The uterine howl of many years on the theme "entered the port, changed the module, went out to sea." Mixed with screeching - "We want some more money" passed you by?
        Yes, and the Bold was originally announced without Caliber. They were loaded according to plan in modules in the hangar. When he became Mercury another 2UKSK entered him and he caught up with the tonnage and surpassed the price of pr.22350, in the absence of adequate air defense, by the way.
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 7 July 2020 09: 41 New
        12
        Quote: Wedmak
        The armament makes it quite painful to snap back and fall under the protection of the coastal troops.

        It hurts to snap back with what? AK-176? Or a couple of machine guns?
        A year and a half after the adoption of the lead "patrol ship" by the fleet, there is only one type of module for it - a diving module. The GAS module is still in testing, so the ship itself does not have an ASW (only anti-sabotage GAS). The PKR / KR module is still at the stage of an exhibition copy.
        And the best thing happened with the air defense system module - there is simply nowhere to put it, because the place for it is occupied by residential and utility rooms. So the patrolman does not have air defense either (to consider him "flexible" - MANPADS on a pedestal - this is a very big optimist).
        As a result, the main armament of the ship is the Ka-27. So the current 22160 can be safely replaced with the Herluf Bidstrup from the fishery, which has exactly the same helicopter. smile
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 09: 46 New
          +6
          Quote: Alexey RA
          So the current 22160 can be safely replaced with the Herluf Bidstrup from the fishery, which has exactly the same helicopter.


          +1000, I remember then I was still surprised at what the Navy PSKR was needed. The tasks of the departments are very different.
        2. Wedmak
          Wedmak 7 July 2020 10: 01 New
          -7
          You just want the modules like pies - for a couple of months, baked and put. What kind of air defense do you need to put on your patrol with a displacement of 1500 tons - S-300F or something ?? This is a patrol ship, not an escort ship. If you lock it, they will fix the TOP module and everything on the deck. By the way, such tests have already been carried out.
          By the way, about snapping back, I talked about 20380 and its variants - 8 calibers / onyx on a ship of 2200 (2400) tons are not enough for you?
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 7 July 2020 10: 39 New
            +9
            Quote: Wedmak
            You just want the modules like pies - for a couple of months, baked and put.

            For what a couple of months? belay "Vasily Bykov" was under construction almost five years. And already a year and a half it was handed over to the fleet. But there’s nothing to arm him with.
            However, it is not for our fleet to get used to receiving ships without weapons - Project 941 and Project 1155 are an example of this.
            Quote: Wedmak
            What kind of air defense do you need to put on your patrol with a displacement of 1500 tons - S-300F or something ??

            Actually, according to the project, there was a "Calm" module. The USSR put the "Wasp" on ships of this class.
            The air defense of the patrol officer should allow fighting off from 1-2 anti-ship missiles. 22160 does not have such an opportunity.
            Quote: Wedmak
            If you lock it, they will fix the TOP module and everything on the deck.

            That's for sure - and all. Because in this case, the ship will lose its only weapon - a helicopter. For besides the helipad there is nowhere to put the module.
          2. Ivanchester
            Ivanchester 7 July 2020 15: 05 New
            0
            On 20380 there are no "calibers", they appeared only on 20385, a series of which was limited to two units.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 7 July 2020 15: 06 New
              0
              I talked about 20380 and its variants

              This phrase probably passed by the eye.
      4. Alien ...
        Alien ... 7 July 2020 22: 06 New
        0
        Not sideways, but forehead. The most fundamental conceptual. Hell, really not in the know ???
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 08: 24 New
      +3
      This is not a stone but a gravestone. And it is highly desirable, uh, pushers of these freaks - "Patrolman" and "Daring Mercury" on the bunks.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 7 July 2020 18: 57 New
        +3
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        This is not a stone but a gravestone. And it is highly desirable, uh, pushers of these freaks - "Patrolman" and "Daring Mercury" on the bunks.

        Who will put him in prison? He is monument Chief Adviser to the President of JSC "USC" for military shipbuilding. smile
        We adopt, so to speak, the best practices of developed democracies - when a person who yesterday signed an agreement with a company on behalf of the Customer, after leaving the service, occupies a high position in the same company. Dick Cheney approves! laughing
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 19: 20 New
          -1
          Hmm, such swindlers - Ostap weeps with envy, especially after uh story with Impudent Mercury.
          Today, however, they are planting everyone. Liberals are indignant. True, the sentence to the thief-director people displeased ...
        2. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 7 July 2020 21: 37 New
          +2
          Chirkov in the case of 20386 was not in the lead. He simply agreed on it, bypassing the 1st Central Research Institute, the employees of which were brought to sign the project already approved by the Commander-in-Chief.

          There were two pushers - I.G. Zakharov, the "father" of the project and the "land" rear admiral, and the chief of the "Zaslon" Alexander Gorbunov, who, in turn, was covered and jacked up by a very important uncle from the military-industrial commission.
          Zakharov by that time began to fall into insanity and tried to realize his blue dream of building a modular ship.
          Gorbunov wanted to cut money on the radar, which is fundamentally new for the Russian Federation, with the placement of antennas on the superstructure.
          An important uncle, according to local historians, wanted to get money from Barrier on this drink.
          And I believe that an important uncle is working for some of the foreign governments.
          Chirkov there was just singing along.
  2. Ded_Mazay
    Ded_Mazay 7 July 2020 05: 38 New
    +3
    If it works out the same with icebreakers as with LCS, then it will be very funny lol
  3. Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 7 July 2020 05: 41 New
    0
    Already today it is clear that the US Navy with great pleasure would send these ships not only to the reserve, but to hell. On the needles.

    Yes, who will listen to them. Such money was spent and it turns out that in vain. Who admits this
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 7 July 2020 07: 59 New
      +7
      Quote: Lipchanin
      Yes, who will listen to them. Such money was spent and it turns out that in vain. Who admits this

      Americans have enough money, the Fed will print how much they need, they can afford to experiment. They built "Zumvolt" and LCS, well, you can say unsuccessful, but the ships are interesting. On the basis of miscalculations, theirs shipbuilding will build more wealthy ships, you can't follow the old classical idea of ​​shipbuilding. It is always necessary to experiment, especially since they have a powerful shipbuilding potential, well, if you have money, then why not experiment, as in the saying, "If you suffer for a long time, something will work out. Now, besides the United States, only Chinese can experiment with experiments.
      1. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 7 July 2020 08: 13 New
        +6
        This is not the point. Talking that there was no experiment, a frankly unsuccessful project was launched into the series and now they don’t know what to do with it.
        And about "suffering for a long time", this is not a saying, but a line from a song by A. Pugacheva laughing
      2. +5
        +5 7 July 2020 13: 45 New
        0
        You are deeply mistaken. Money and money are completely different money .... For a series of KUE and some KEI, 10 trials were printed, but they all went to the bankers, to inflate a bubble in the stock market and a little bit to all blacks unemployed .... otherwise the hyper in the USA would come to 2010 .... therefore it’s easy to give out the troll to the banks, 10 lards for the pieces of iron - in the brawl congress for them for months. Therefore, the construction of unnecessary and useless piece of iron can only be instead of suitable and necessary.
      3. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 7 July 2020 15: 53 New
        +2
        Quote: tihonmarine
        The American has enough money, the Fed will print as much as they need, they can afford to do experiments.

        hmm .. but then why are 3 zombolts instead of 32, and the LCS is still mothballed before it has finished the first series? it seems that there is just no money request
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 7 July 2020 16: 51 New
          +5
          Quote: SanichSan
          but then why are 3 zombolts instead of 32, and LCS has not already finished the first series is already going for conservation?

          They experimented, realized that they stopped the "fool", they were not fools to continue to produce tea. But we also got experience, and something will come in handy in the future. To be honest, the Yankes have many interesting and good ships, and the shipbuilding itself is at a high level and the shipyards are modern. So let them experiment.
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 8 July 2020 16: 55 New
            0
            Quote: tihonmarine
            It’s a sin to hide, but the Yankees have a lot of interesting and good ships, and shipbuilding itself at a high level and modern shipyards.

            not quite right wink not "interesting", but "dear" soldier Project funding is approved by Congress as a bunch of lobbyists. lobbyists promote the interests of corporations, not the military. accordingly, the military receive LCS and cannons that they cannot contain. The US budget is not rubber. 200 projects closed in 2018 clearly show this. request
            Quote: tihonmarine
            So let them experiment.

            but I completely agree with this soldier
  4. Sergey_G_M
    Sergey_G_M 7 July 2020 05: 53 New
    +1
    Budget waste? Not! Just not in America, it is making money and lobbying.
    They built a super-duper expensive ship - they earned it.
    But you still want money - you have to prove that the ship is not very good, write it off and build new ones!
    Most Americans went crazy about making money belay
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 7 July 2020 08: 16 New
      +6
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      But you still want money - you have to prove that the ship is not very good, write it off and build new ones!

      They’ll saw it, they’ll build new ones, they won’t fit, they’ll saw it again and they will build it again, the main thing is that there is something to build on.
      In the end, they will build something worthwhile. "Dreadnought" also appeared for a reason, but after various unsuccessful experiments. We also experimented, there were such coastal defense battleships "Popovka", and served several decades until 1903 in the Black Sea Fleet. These are the only ships in history that had 6 propellers at once. On a large wave, it did not rock, but the waves rolled over the side. Even Nekrasov wrote poetry about her.
      Hello, smart head,
      Have you long been from foreign countries?
      By the way, what’s your “popovka”,
      Did you swim in the ocean?

      - Bad, the matter does not argue,
      Experience is no use
      Everything is spinning and spinning
      Everything is spinning - it is not swimming.

      - This, brother, is the emblem of the century.
      If you really understand,
      There is no person in Russia,
      Who wouldn’t be with him.

      Somewhere it’s all awkward,
      Something is a sin ...
      We spin like a "popovka"
      And forward to the top.
      1. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 7 July 2020 19: 20 New
        -1
        Even Nekrasov wrote poems about her.
        And he became one of the ancestors of the modern Xperds. The Popovki were created to protect the coast as armored mobile batteries. Only two large punctures: 1) ineffective rudder, 2) non-rotating turret as a result of the first puncture.
  5. Alex 2020
    Alex 2020 7 July 2020 06: 05 New
    0
    It is strange that they do not plan to sell them "gratuitously" to slaves from Krajina. And they will cut down a little money and get rid of the expensive ballast.
  6. Revolver
    Revolver 7 July 2020 06: 30 New
    +1
    Yes, like that. Some ships that are quite suitable, although not quite justified in terms of return on investment, are sucked, while others would have been glad to see the boats from this sediment. If someone doesn’t understand, I’m talking about the great naval power 404 and decommissioned boats of the US Coast Guard. And offer them LCS, they would soak the pants with delight.
    1. +5
      +5 7 July 2020 13: 47 New
      +3
      And what would they do with them?
      Want to ruin a small country? Give her a cruiser

      Zone 404 and LCS are enough ... although they are already bankrupt
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 7 July 2020 17: 20 New
        +1
        Persians could call destroyers British-built 1970s destroyers!
        Even if the former KGB coast guard ship for sheltering the Sagaidachny frigate and the flagship of the fleet, they would probably have classified the LCS as EM. Or maybe just a cruiser. Which brings us back to the idea
        Quote: 5-9
        Want to ruin a small country? Give her a cruiser
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 7 July 2020 17: 05 New
      0
      Quote: Nagan
      If someone doesn’t understand, I’m talking about the great naval power 404 and decommissioned boats of the US Coast Guard.

      The Yankos are also not to hand out grenades to all who do not hit. But the US Coast Guard boats, please. They riveted them like sausages when our fishing fleet is working in their zone, so they drank blood with us. And now you don't need much, just catch drug smugglers and immigrants. And cutting "for pins and needles" will cost more. And it turns out that everyone is happy, especially the Ukrainian admirals.
  7. Reviews
    Reviews 7 July 2020 07: 12 New
    +2
    Quote: Nagan
    offer them LCS, they would soak the pants with delight.

    And will they pull operation and maintenance? There are clearly more advanced and expensive technologies than on simple “islands” like a bicycle. And, for sure, they require compatibility with a bunch of infrastructure, which is still Soviet in Ukraine.
  8. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 7 July 2020 07: 26 New
    -1
    The money was spent and this was apparently the goal (large-scale support for the economy) ... and it is very good ... that we did not develop "our own" similar to catching up with the "advanced ideas" of the development of the fleet ...
  9. doktorkurgan
    doktorkurgan 7 July 2020 07: 42 New
    +1
    Reconfigured them into mine-sweeping ships. It would have turned out, KMK, good squadron minesweepers, for example ...
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 08: 27 New
      +2
      Except that the fairways should be cleaned, but the Schaub did not drown with foam plastic to fill the compartments. The neutral module just did not come out.
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 7 July 2020 09: 07 New
      +1
      Reconfigured them into mine-sweeping ships. It would have turned out, KMK, good squadron minesweepers, for example ...
      The modular design includes millions of connectors, quick-detachable flanges, fasteners, etc. etc. Apparently, all this hat pisses in all directions, sparks and disassembles. You can’t reorient these tubs.
  10. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 7 July 2020 09: 05 New
    +6
    The idea of ​​modular modernization of ships is a good example of a simple, understandable, beautiful, MISTAKE theory. The command of the Navy, for the most part, for the most part, in principle, is no longer oriented in modern technology. Which is quite entertaining, because its main composition studied during the confrontation with the USSR, and then specialists were required.
    And secondly, those people who understand in technology, apparently believe that you can spend billions on stillborn ideas with impunity. That is, they are not too worried about the world military situation there, and they think that for now they can’t make real weapons, but simply saw, putting junk on the water.
    Interesting ...
    1. Alien ...
      Alien ... 7 July 2020 22: 00 New
      0
      "The command of the Navy, in the first place, for the most part, in principle, is no longer oriented in modern technology."
      I don’t understand what is going on there ... It seems to be naval. They should understand at least elementary things ... Manic reluctance to at least start designing modern destroyers, coupled with the same manic desire to build all the bad stuff in a row ...
      ... ps: by the destroyer I mean the destroyer, and not the next Vunderhren type Leader ...
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 8 July 2020 08: 50 New
        0
        Hypersound destroyed the very idea of ​​building large ships. A search is underway - how to replace them so that super-profits remain super-large. As for sailors, traditionally, no one is steamed.
  11. ruivit1988
    ruivit1988 7 July 2020 10: 08 New
    -2
    If they don’t know what to do, let them give it to Ukraine. Well, or let them sell them for cheap or on loan.
  12. Doccor18
    Doccor18 7 July 2020 10: 52 New
    +4
    Ships are built for cannons ... An old adage that still holds true today. The whole problem of the littoral ships and destroyers of the USA is that the "guns" were either not built at all, or they were not brought to mind. The ideas were great, but the execution was striking in its economic, technical and organizational complexity. In the end, it was probably possible to build two experimental ships and test all weapons systems on them. And not to build whole series of "raw" useless ships.
    Strange it all happened to the Americans. Perhaps again the ubiquitous corruption played a cruel joke.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 7 July 2020 16: 06 New
      +7
      They have one gun, and eight missiles. Norwegian RCC. And three helicopters. Two of them with strike weapons.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 16: 20 New
        -1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        and eight missiles. Norwegian RCC.


        4 out of 18, with near-zero air defense. As a result, a pair of information security with RCC and PRR on the suspension will kill him with a guarantee.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 7 July 2020 17: 31 New
          +2
          There are no air defense on any corvettes. And on frigates it is weak. Serious air defense begins with the destroyer class.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 18: 33 New
            +2
            This is certainly not the case. And in spite of all the squalor of Redut, the ship quite has an air defense system from Launch to 120 km, in theory ... And SAAR 6 will personally help you. 16 missiles from the launch to 100 km. + 40 SAM missiles. By the way, tell the missiles from the LCD radio command telecontrol or is there ARGSN?
            What frigates do not suit you? Gorshkov carries up to 32 9M96 missiles (instead of one such missile you can insert a bunch of 4 (9M100)). Hundredth rockets in the series went by the way.
            Or the Spanish frigate De Bazan - 48 cells MK-41.
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 7 July 2020 16: 30 New
        0
        Ships are built for guns ... 

        They have one cannon, but missiles ...

        About guns and not only talk. By the beginning of the 21st century, the Americans wanted to have an ultramodern fleet, which alone would be superior to all others combined. The goal is unique and worthy of respect. The aircraft carrier, destroyer, multi-purpose airliner and littoral ship were to provide total superiority. But the goal was very ambitious, in every sense. Yes, and the main enemy disappeared .. As a result, the aircraft carrier was somehow completed, the destroyer was too tough, the maple was good, but indecent, and the error came out with a littoral.
        The bottom line is that desires should at least be slightly combined with options, and money does not solve all problems ..
  13. Cowbra
    Cowbra 7 July 2020 11: 25 New
    +2
    I said this back in April, in April it was already known about it! But local jingoistic patriots of the mattress flag hastened to burst out "vyfsevreti"
  14. +5
    +5 7 July 2020 13: 39 New
    +1
    And how many idolaters before the "shining city on the hill" were there who zealously proved the beauty of these unarmed scows, what mythical qualities they just did not invent for them, so as not to admit that LCS is either a monstrous mistake and failure, or a monstrous drank, or both together bribes ...
    It’s a pity, of course, that the sailors thought better of it .. it was necessary to build them under a hundred and no NSM !!! And now, normal frigates stir up .... are preparing for a real chtol war?
  15. Dmitrij Bazhanyuk
    Dmitrij Bazhanyuk 7 July 2020 14: 58 New
    0
    Well, actually, Lockheed-Martin has a lcs-1 ship modernization project. And in it the main changes are the ability to deliver up to 16 UVP Mk41 and 8 PU PCM NSM. With such changes, these ships in power stand on a par with the 20385 corvettes, which are now the most powerful in their class. I don’t understand why they are going to throw them away, the USA that does not need a corvette ah URO? Proofs are here https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2019/03/how-lockheed-martin-plans-to-make-the-freedom-class-lcs-more-lethal-and-survivable/
  16. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 7 July 2020 16: 04 New
    +5
    LCS continue to intensively build and launch. Several of them are already on military service. Not off the coast of America, but off the coast of China.
    They wrote off the first 4 experimental ones, with non-standard equipment that did not go into a further series.
    Littorial Combat Ship ships are high-speed ocean corvettes with speeds of up to 37 knots. They carry on board THREE helicopters: two attack and one unmanned reconnaissance. Armament - 1 gun and 8 medium-range anti-ship missiles.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 16: 26 New
      -1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      LCS continue to intensively build and launch.

      And therefore, the intensity of the construction of the Berks is higher and the price of ElCeeS is not critically lower than the Berks. So fse! Basta karapuziki. And that is why it was decided to buy the FREMM project
      Quote: voyaka uh
      developing speed up to 37 knots.

      And why the heck is this little case for cars. Its authors do not know what is aviation?
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Several of them are already on military service. Not off the coast of America, but off the coast of China.

      Already minus 4. And no need to carry nonsense about non-standard equipment and other nonsense. If this is so why Burke and a couple of other destroyers were not decommissioned, why, if you follow your logic, Nimitz was not decommissioned after 7 years of service. And the first Virginia is long overdue, "the equipment is not standard" (p.)
      After the 16th year there are no bookmarks. St. Louis and Cincinnati are already hanging.
      Maybe you should study the materiel of the issue?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 7 July 2020 17: 38 New
        +2
        Where do you always get fighter-bombers in the ocean? laughing
        They need aircraft carriers.
        Russia has 0, China has 2.
        LCS will have to fight with Chinese missile boats, corvettes and frigates. And here the LCS has a sharp advantage in speed and "air wing" of three helicopters.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 18: 43 New
          -1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          LCS will have to fight with Chinese missile boats, corvettes and f

          *
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Where do you always get fighter-bombers in the ocean?

          Tell me, is everything normal with logic? Reread your own quotes pozhalsta. So here’s where the missile boat is, there’s a couple of ISs, not to mention the fact that the mine module was not there anymore ....
          The freak was supposed to be a replacement for the colonial gunboats of the beginning of the century, but a little was mistaken with reality. This is to control the barbarian coasts where, in the worst case, a couple of T-55 tanks crawl ashore or boats jump out from the ZU-23. Roughly speaking, they are hardly applicable anywhere.
          By the way, you can meet IS in 2.5 - 3 thousand km from the coast. You probably also don’t know about tankers?
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Russia has 0

          It would be nice if there was zero.
    2. +5
      +5 8 July 2020 08: 56 New
      +1
      Well, of the most zealous idolaters ... doesn’t it bother you that Littorial is littoral or coastal ???? Are you an ocean .....
      Although you and the NSM - medium range .... in comparison with anti-tank chtol chtol?
      I can directly imagine how THREE helicopters grind the PLA Navy off their shores ... what’s happening, Guangzhou is conquered ..
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 8 July 2020 11: 14 New
        +1
        He thought of it as coastal. And it turned out - the ocean. They crossed the Pacific Ocean several times in rough weather. In a 3-point storm go above 30 knots. And the service is - I repeat - not off the coast of the United States, but near Japan, Taiwan, China.
        1. +5
          +5 8 July 2020 11: 22 New
          -1
          You yourself confirm that the result was not what you intended. What's the point of them "near Japan-Taiwan-China"? Waste fuel, a resource in an okiyan in a storm, out of reach of anti-ship missiles and the PRC base aviation? Do they chase whales with marlin there?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 8 July 2020 11: 54 New
            +3
            The value of ANY warship is revealed only in combat operations. Without them, it is easy to say about ANY ship that it is "wasted money and useless piece of iron."
            In peacetime, only seaworthiness and weapons can be discussed, but no conclusion can be drawn on the degree of usefulness in war. There were many ships of the 1st rank (for example) that died in the first battle, without having time to cause any damage to the enemy.
            And before the battles they were written with enthusiasm.
  17. Brenneke
    Brenneke 7 July 2020 17: 52 New
    0
    What nonsense! Hooray patriotism is not appropriate here.
    We read (clumsy translation):
    "Disposal plan for hulls LCS 1-4
    In planning the proposed budget for FY1, the Navy recommended scrapping Hulls 4-2021 in 10, which is about 61 years ahead of previous planning. [2] this was explained by Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Mike Gildey during the Western Conference on March 2020, 5 when he said: “We made a decision a few years ago. ... To enable LCS 2015 and beyond, in particular, the unit buys we made in 2, we decided that we needed to do a lot more testing and use these first four hulls so that we could better understand that there were problems with regards to hull maintenance and engineering that continued to plague us and get in the way us to get these ships at sea ... We used these first hulls for testing, and we did not invest in upgrading them, like the rest of the fleet. - These first four ships do not bring death to battle. ... I just haven't seen any return on investment. ” It was also noted that it would cost another $ 62 billion to get the first four hulls ready for sea duty. [XNUMX] "
    Total in operation according to LCSS class Freedom + in construction and development):
    Milwaukee LCS-5 Active in service
    Detroit LCS-7 Active in service
    Little Rock LCS-9 Active in service
    Sioux City LCS-11 Active in service
    Wichita LCS-13 Active in service
    Billings LCS-15 Active in service
    Indianapolis LCS-17 Active in service
    St. Louis LCS-19 Fitting out
    Minneapolis-saint paul fitting out
    Cooperstown LCS-23 Fitting out
    Marinette LCS-25 Under construction
    Nantucket LCS-27 Under construction
    Beloit LCS-29 Under construction
    Cleveland LCS-31 On order [58]
  18. mmaxx
    mmaxx 7 July 2020 18: 26 New
    0
    It is very unclear why the Americans needed "littoral" ships at all. This is not their topic at all. Surely someone will come to them and start plotting something there? They've never built anything like that for themselves, and now ...
    Apparently, the designers and industry were supported in the conditions of the dominance of their fleet over all and the complete unnecessaryness of something new. So that they had something to live on, well, stretch their brains.
    Money spent, the topic is exhausted.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 20: 18 New
      0
      This is to control other people's coastal waters.
      1. +5
        +5 8 July 2020 08: 59 New
        0
        When RCC suddenly find themselves even at Hezbollah, this is a very stupid undertaking .... It is stupid only to cruise the cannon with shells for 4 million rounds on the shore with shells of 1 million each ...
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 8 July 2020 09: 09 New
          -1
          This is what I write about once again. The fathers who created littoral created a wretched concept of combat use of this class, crookedly put it into practice, and at the exit received a beach-walking catamaran with machine guns. Then, for some reason, they tried to copy-paste it, and our wretched people further worsened the final product of their life. Moreover, why are these floating misunderstandings about Independence, Vilnist and others, I can still understand, but there are great secrets to what we thought when giving birth to Patrollers with needles ahead. And under what matters does VeMeF protect the economy zone is a mystery ....
    2. arkadiyssk
      arkadiyssk 7 July 2020 21: 51 New
      +1
      Why do Americans need Littoral? The states, with their huge and powerful fleet, simply do not now have ships that would not mind sending them closer to shore. All destroyers are converted to Ballistic missile defense and this super-valuable asset is becoming - which is stupid to risk. In addition, there is a Spearhead-class fast transports that need to be accompanied and supported by something. Something needs to be fought with the harassment of inflatable boats in the Gulf near Iran. Do you need something to protect your ports and communications - not cruisers and destroyers? In general, amers have many tasks under LCS and they are in no way connected with the combat power of these ships. The people in the comments mistakenly compare these ships with our corvettes and make the mistake of laughing too happily at this.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 7 July 2020 21: 59 New
        -2
        Quote: arkadiyssk
        The states, with their huge and powerful fleet, simply do not now have ships that would not mind sending them closer to shore.


        That's right - but for this, it is not at all a ship in the performance of the ELECeS that is needed, but an adequate frigate with a normal air defense system, the ability to use KP / RKR and effective in solving problems of PLO. Therefore, the Americans agreed on the purchase of the FREMM project.
      2. mmaxx
        mmaxx 8 July 2020 08: 20 New
        +2
        Usually, they delegated these things to NATO partners. Now, apparently, the partners no longer have faith. Or partners have no resources.
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 8 July 2020 18: 34 New
        0
        Quote: arkadiyssk
        The states, with their huge and powerful fleet, simply do not now have ships that would not mind sending them closer to shore.

        So LCS in their current form, too, can not be sent to shore. Because their constructive protection and survivability are zero.
        When the LCS was designed, they decided that the best protection would be remote work from outside the range of coastal defense fire weapons. Therefore, the defense was simply scored - just remember that the "Freedom" superstructure is made of light alloys, and the "Independence" and the aluminum body.
        And when they began to build them, it suddenly turned out that this concept was no longer relevant, since even Yemen had acquired anti-ship missiles, so that the shooting of zusuls was canceled. And it turned out. that for LCS to work, even in low-intensity conflicts or in secondary theaters, they must be accompanied by EM URO. And this despite the fact that initially LCS was created to release these EMs.
        In general, when the fleet figured out what LCS should be like in modern conditions in order to survive and fulfill a combat mission, the result was the carrier of Aegis. smile
      4. mmaxx
        mmaxx 9 July 2020 17: 29 New
        0
        Duc, it’s necessary to get to another shore. So these ships turned out to be stupid.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 8 July 2020 19: 21 New
      0
      Quote: mmaxx
      It is very unclear why the Americans needed "littoral" ships at all. This is not their topic at all. Surely someone will come to them and start plotting something there? They've never built anything like that for themselves, and now ...

      It all began during the Cold War - with the project of a cheap mass coastal ship, a consumable for the war with the USSR (a ship that is not sorry) Then this concept turned into a cheap ship for working on secondary theater of operations and in conflicts of low intensity - in order to free up expensive and not too numerous EM URO. Along the way, the fleet, as part of its budget cut, decided to get rid of the ships' different types due to the fashionable concept of modularity - and the tasks of frigates, minesweepers, reconnaissance ships and even Coast Guard ships were assigned to the future LCS.
      Since the ship was planned to operate in minor areas, it was decided that the range of the enemy’s weapons would not be very large, so the enemy’s defeat before the fire was opened would be the best defense. As a result, they scored for constructive defense, and concentrated on an early defeat - UAVs, missile systems for working on an unobserved target with a range of up to 40 km, etc.
      And then the polar beast came. Suddenly, it turned out that while design and construction were in progress, RCC began to spread around the world. And the concept of early defeat no longer works - even when working off the coast of some Yemen, one can encounter RCC with a range greater than even theoretical armament LCS.
      As a result, already in 2012, the fleet admitted that LCS can be used in a combat zone only in groups and only under the cover of normal EM URO. Alone, LCS can only be used for patrolling, fighting pirates and displaying the flag. Moreover, the development of "improved LCS" for the new realities was started, which at the output gave the bloated LCS with Aegis. smile
  19. Alien ...
    Alien ... 7 July 2020 21: 55 New
    0
    To the author: the article of June 27 of the same, 2020, of the same year hangs on the same resource. https://topwar.ru/172564-pentagon-raskryl-nekotorye-detali-vooruzhenija-novogo-fregata-ffg-x.html#comment-id-10545084
    Where Russian on white says that 20 frigates FFG (X). 20, not 10. Until 2030.
    ... In general, having read what they want to throw away, continuing to build, envy takes not even black. And then there are the plans of Britain, Canada and Australia ... Ah, yes, we are taking measures with Ukraine: Priluki will be able to drown our Black Sea Fleet, or not ... The Plague ...
  20. Badger
    Badger 8 July 2020 08: 28 New
    0
    The military-industrial complex and admirals made a grand cut! And now they justify themselves, they say they didn’t calculate a bit, I'm sorry.
  21. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 8 July 2020 09: 14 New
    -1
    Quote: arkadiyssk
    and they have nothing to do with the fighting power of these ships.


    There is no combat power there. It's good.
    Only they had an adequate ship for the voiced tasks, but our FSE masochism!


    Cutter Legend-class
  22. Basarev
    Basarev 8 July 2020 10: 12 New
    0
    We would laugh with the very same useless RTOs. Only if the States were smart enough to dwell on four, they are being built and are being built in our country.
    1. sav
      sav 8 July 2020 13: 26 New
      +7
      Quote: Basarev
      We would laugh with the very same useless RTOs

      Well, RTOs went as a launch platform for the Kyrgyz Republic under the terms of the agreement, you know.
  23. sav
    sav 8 July 2020 13: 22 New
    10
    Tried and quit. We need to learn a lesson.
  24. shinobi
    shinobi 9 July 2020 21: 54 New
    0
    The Yankees are trying to be innovative. Previously, somewhere until the mid-80s, they did it well. From the late 90s to the beginning of the XNUMXs, whatever they were up to, they weren’t living. It seems that they have a complete seam with an engineering school.
  25. Smirnoff
    Smirnoff 10 July 2020 17: 07 New
    +9
    Let them be funny - in the world it will be calmer
  26. rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 10 July 2020 17: 18 New
    0
    There is a proposal to give Khokhlov, then Russia will surely win
    1. Maki maki
      Maki maki 10 July 2020 19: 27 New
      14
      No, we’ll steal them laughing
  27. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 10 July 2020 21: 19 New
    0
    "In fact, this is just an epoch-making recognition that the ships, on which more than one billion dollars were spent, were not good for anything. Even for the role of test and training ships."
    Well, it was you who "zagged".
    At least to create such a conclusion, they are no longer useless.
    This is R&D however! Or how?
    Especially with such an interesting case. I’ve been practicing SDS / diver on our maran. Do you know what an interesting case in the bow is?!. Archives are an interesting corps. I have not seen this before.
    "But during the tests, it suddenly became clear that it is not such a simple matter to rearrange the modules back and forth."
    Ah, I warned of my doubts about the operation of modular systems!
    "It is already clear today that the US Navy would be very pleased to send these ships not only to the reserve, but to hell."
    I would not so categorically say something about this.
    It cannot be such that these interesting steamboats cannot be adapted in any way to any events.
    In the end, we scooped up a bunch of 22800. Well now, throw it away?! ..
  28. DimanC
    DimanC 11 July 2020 16: 03 New
    +1
    Interestingly, at least one admiral who lobbied for this project will be deducted from the salary? laughing
  29. Fizik M
    Fizik M 11 July 2020 21: 01 New
    +1
    "Probable adversary."
    Corvettes of the Navy / Navy of various countries solve various problems, and often with excellent means, so direct comparison of them by performance characteristics is not correct. However, the experience of similar work of the “opponents” is of great interest here, especially the “problematic” one, primarily the US Navy to create corvettes (which eventually became frigates) of LCS. In the article “Double Excellence Scheme”, the author assessed the results of the LCS program as a huge failure, and the reasons for such an assessment need to be clarified.
    The main idea that was laid down in the LCS was to ensure the corvette's combat stability through a set of characteristics - low visibility, electronic warfare and high speed (which received a significant priority in the project load over anti-aircraft fire weapons). All this, when used in combat in a complex manner, theoretically made it possible, with good chances, to get away even from attacks by anti-ship missiles. At the same time, anti-aircraft fire weapons became purely secondary. This concept was quite working and in the most complete and perfect form was implemented on high-speed, inconspicuous skeg hovercraft RCAs of the Skeld type (Norwegian Navy). It seems that boats similar in concept would be very useful to the Russian Navy in a number of theaters. The great potential and experience of the domestic "Diamond" in creating hovercraft and composite shipbuilding allows us to count on the creation of a domestic analogue ("reduced and inconspicuous" development of the 1239 Sivuch project) with high performance characteristics.
    However, the US Navy decided to “hang” on this working concept the solution of anti-submarine and mine defense tasks (PLO and PMO), which clearly required a significant speed limit when working with ambient light sensors. 10 years ago, the American developers found the solution to this problem “simple and logical” - to place these sensors on crewless means, thereby ensuring the high speed and maneuverability of the LCS themselves, which in this case remained the role of a “high-speed and inconspicuous advanced" server "of the" network " deployed crewless systems and sensors. " In practice, it turned out differently - it is impractical to analyze the whole complex of LCS problems in the article, but a number of critical failures need to be cited.
    The first one. The development of an anti-submarine modification of a heavy semi-submersible RMV type missile equipped with a "standard" search engine of the US Navy ships - low-frequency active-passive GPA MFTA (including a radiating sonar section) ended in failure.
    The second one. Significant difficulties arose in providing in practice the effective operation of the specialized “light GPBA” for crewless boats (BEC).
    The third. The search complex of the BEC type “Draco” submarine (planned as the main standard weapon of the LCS) itself had low reliability. At the same time, the US Navy at the turn of 2010. had significant difficulties with the reliability of the new low-frequency helicopter lowered GAS (OGAS) AQS-22, the application of which was also planned at BEC "Draco". Despite the fact that these problems for helicopters were resolved, issues of reliable operation in BEC conditions (especially for low temperature conditions) remained.
    The result of this (and a number of other) failures was the installation directly on the LCS of a powerful low-frequency towed GAS (BUGAS) CAPTAS-4 (Tayles company). In the literal sense, ships had to be "treated with an autogen," fortunately, there was enough free space for this. However, after this, the LCS lost the ability, when solving the PLO problem, to have a big move (you cannot “run” with the BUGAS set), i.e. then, the main idea for which they were created.
    The question arises of the appropriateness of the initial LCS design, when a large percentage of displacement and cost was given instead of anti-aircraft fire weapons to a very powerful main power plant (GEM) for the sake of speed, which at the same time could not be implemented in practice when solving one of the main LCS tasks. Moreover - in those who lost the speed of LCS with BUGAS, the vulnerability to attacks by anti-ship missiles (including submarines) sharply increased. Obviously, the harsh criticism of LCS in the USA has serious grounds, and in the construction of modern frigates instead of LCS, the US Navy could get much more combat-ready and useful ships.
    In our case, taking into account the importance of the PLO task for the Russian Navy’s Airborne Forces corvette, the negative experience of the US Navy with LCS to exclude its repetition is of interest.
    https://vpk.name/news/149995_boevye_sistemy_korvetov_ovr.html
  30. Crabong
    Crabong 15 August 2020 12: 41 New
    0
    The article is a complete lie. the Americans realized that at the moment such a dimension of ships is the most promising. Taking into account the new multi-domain strategy, a large network of naval bases, a developed auxiliary fleet and a sufficiently high striking power of such ships, there is no need now to build aircraft carriers of 100000 tons each. In almost any region, you can quickly concentrate the necessary strike assets as part of a multi-domain strategy.
  31. Yellow bubble
    Yellow bubble 5 September 2020 13: 08 New
    0
    America has a good fleet, a big, powerful, cool one, they will hang on their ears for a long time that everything is bad, this is such a tactic to mislead everyone.