Military Review

Boroday called the LPR and the DPR a de facto part of Russia. Is it really?

58

At the congress of the Rodina party, the head of the Union of Volunteers of Donbass and the former Prime Minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic Alexander Borodai spoke. During the speech, he expressed the idea that the DPR and LPR are actually already part of Russia, so it's time to formalize the relationship legally.


Of course, Boroday said he was thinking, and did it from the heart. And if that were the case, it would be just great.

But if you consider the situation without emotions, then everything becomes much more complicated.


First of all, the legal documents that determine the fate of the Donbass are non-working Minsk agreements. But so far they haven’t come up with anything better and haven’t agreed upon it, they are all oriented towards them. This document and its violations have been talked about for so long and often that few people already recall what the essence of the agreements is.

Briefly convey their meaning, we get the following. Parties to the conflict cease hostilities and deploy troops. Then, Ukraine makes the necessary changes to the legislation, coordinates them with the republics, after which the process of reintegration of Donbass into Ukraine begins. Each step was initially given a certain time.

The document was signed by representatives of Ukraine, Russia, the DPR and LPR. This formally means that everyone agrees with its provisions and is ready to fulfill them. At the same time, if someone did not notice, not a word is said in the Minsk agreements on the entry of the DPR and LPR into Russia.
And then strange things begin.

Even the first paragraph of the Minsk Plan for the six years of the conflict has not been implemented, but at the same time all signatories continue to insist on their commitment to the document. It would seem that Ukraine is the main beneficiary, because in the end it gets what it seeks. But for some reason she is also the main violator. At the same time, Kiev stubbornly calls Russia the aggressor country, and the leadership of the DPR and LPR - terrorists, with whom it is impossible to negotiate.

The republics of Donbass, on the contrary, after the phased implementation of all clauses of the contract, lose everything and return to Ukraine, but at the same time they strictly and scrupulously comply with the requirements for withdrawal of equipment, armistice, etc. It’s somehow strange.

For Russia, officially the DPR and LPR are temporarily uncontrolled territories of Ukraine that need humanitarian support due to the irresponsible actions of Kiev. But no more than that.

Here is a de jure. But what about de facto?

De facto and de jure at the moment do not have any common ground.

Ukraine demands from Russia (for some reason) the return of the Donbass, and in fact does everything possible and impossible to push it away from itself. On her part, shelling is being carried out, and not so much on military facilities and NM positions as on residential neighborhoods and civilian infrastructure. Add to this the economic blockade, the breakdown of ties between enterprises that previously operated in a single complex, the mocking procedure for obtaining pensions for residents of the DPR and LPR and much more.

In the republics, of course, also in recent years there has been a reversal towards Russia. Moreover, the process has reached such a level that a reorientation towards Ukraine would already be painful and almost impossible. The industry and trade of the DPR and LPR not only lost ties with their Ukrainian partners, but already managed to establish them with their eastern neighbor. In Russia, many mistakenly believe that freight traffic with the Donbass is limited to humanitarian aid. Some especially “advanced” ones will remember the Donbass corner. But the reality is already a little different.

For example, in Russia people are eager to purchase engineering products manufactured in the DPR. This is especially true for equipment for the mining industry, which is of the highest quality and adequate cost. Russian companies sell metal, wood, components and much more to the Donbass. If you again reorient to Ukraine, you will again have to break the newly established economic ties.

There are other areas besides the economy, which are focused on Russia. It should be understood that for six years, yesterday's children became university students, and some even managed to finish them. Moreover, the quality of higher education in Donetsk and Lugansk has always been considered high. Now graduates of these universities have begun to receive Russian-style diplomas.

Understanding that Russia is the only partner and ally of the republics, the work of many other structures is also being built according to the standards of the Russian Federation.

Since the DPR and LPR are no longer part of the Ukrainian banking system, they have created their own, however, operating only on their territory. Preparations are already underway for going beyond the borders of the republics.

Ukrainian symbols on the streets of Lugansk and Donetsk have not been seen for a long time. The only exceptions are the yellow-black flag on the Ukrainian numbers of some cars. But the Russian tricolor is no less popular here than the flags of the republics. Even on the main square of Donetsk you can see the national flag of the Russian Federation.

There is a situation when the Minsk agreements become something unnatural and do not suit anyone. But the gradual integration of Donbass into Russia is already in full swing. True, it is too early to say that the DPR and LPR are in fact Russian regions. More precisely, they would be called independent territories, building their own statehood and striving to become part of the Russian Federation.

Even the simplified issuance of passports that began since last year to citizens of the DPR and LPR does not mean that tomorrow the Donbass will become Russian. This can be seen in the examples of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, where many Russian citizens have been living for a long time, but there is no talk of joining these republics to Russia.

For the entry of Donbass into the Russian Federation to take place, all that is needed is Russia's desire. I am glad that in the Russian Federation this is being talked about more and more often, including well-known politicians. Donbass, on the other hand, made its choice a long time ago, since 2014.
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  1. ul_vitalii
    ul_vitalii 6 July 2020 13: 19 New
    +8
    Probably, by virtue of his capabilities, Boroday hurries in this way. In all directions, there is pressure on the participants in the Minsk agreements, and on his part there is a handful of land in the grave of Chubati. yes
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 6 July 2020 14: 17 New
      0
      Boroday called the LPR and the DPR a de facto part of Russia. Is it really?

      But when you start to figure out how, in fact, the fun begins, Peskov says that he hears for the first time lol ,and generally speaking "out of business", and Strelkov completely set Beard empty-chime ...

      Press Secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov commented on the statement of the first Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic Alexander Borodai that the DPR and LPR will soon become part of Russia.
      Quote: D. Peskov
      As for some steps towards Russia, I do not have information on this



      The ex-head of the DPR Defense Ministry Igor Strelkov praised the words of the former prime minister of the DPR, Alexander Borodai, that the Donbass could become part of Russia. He did not believe in the words of his former supporter and called them "an irresponsible chatter."

      Quote: I.I. Strelkov
      Irresponsible chatter. That’s all I can say about the opinion of Beard. He said this in order to look like an ultrapatriot

      According to him, for the sake of a red phrase, Boroday would not spare his own father. Strelkov noted that the DPR and LPR will someday certainly become part of Russia. Boroday speaks about this for the sole purpose - to look like an ultrapatriot.
      1. Guards turn
        Guards turn 6 July 2020 15: 58 New
        0
        Hidden in the Constitution: Donbass will become part of Russia. Politologist Vladimir Karasev pointed out the hidden possibilities of the updated Constitution. He emphasized that, thanks to one of the amendments, the Donbass could become part of Russia.

        “Donbass will become part of the Russian Federation under Article 67 of the new Constitution of Russia,” said Moscow political analyst Vladimir Karasev. In his commentary for Donbass Today, he pointed out the hidden possibility of an updated Constitution.

        According to him, one of the amendments (speech on article 67) is supplemented by the concept of "federal territories". "This is the way to return to Russia the Russian lands that some former Soviet republics" took "with them," he said, recalling a recent statement by Russian President Vladimir Putin "about the unjust and incorrect secession of the former Soviet republics from the USSR." The expert emphasized that the course chosen by the head of state was supported by Russian citizens, as evidenced by the successful voting on the amendments.

        In his opinion, the situation around the Ukrainian question will develop according to the following scenario.

        “At the negotiations in the Norman format, Kiev will receive an ultimatum on the special status of Donbass. It will not be fulfilled. After the deadlines for fulfilling the requirements, a decision will be made to force Ukraine to peace,” Karasev said.
        1. Polymer
          Polymer 6 July 2020 20: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Guards turn
          “At the negotiations in the Norman format, Kiev will receive an ultimatum on the special status of Donbass. It will not be fulfilled. After the deadlines for fulfilling the requirements, a decision will be made to force Ukraine to peace,” Karasev said.

          Hmm ... I wonder if this is about it:
          The Russian Federation requires Ukraine to show the text of amendments to the constitution to consolidate the special status of Donbass

          https://topwar.ru/172746-rossija-trebuet-ot-ukrainy-zakrepit-pravovoj-status-donbassa.html
          ? Honestly, after this news, some hope for a solution to the issue was again flooded, albeit very small.
        2. private person
          private person 6 July 2020 21: 35 New
          0
          After the deadlines for fulfilling the requirements, a decision will be made on forcing Ukraine to peace, "said Karasev.

          Who if not a secret? Ukraine is a purulent abscess and the West will strongly support it provoking Russia.
        3. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 6 July 2020 21: 44 New
          0
          Quote: Guards turn
          After the deadlines for fulfilling the requirements, a decision will be made on forcing Ukraine to peace, "said Karasev.

          But Peskov thinks differently ... Donnbass buffer zone. So Russia has the opportunity to fight while remaining in business. In the best traditions of the State Department. And I don’t know whether it is good or bad. It seems to work but not happy. This is not in Russian sad
          1. Lontus
            Lontus 7 July 2020 09: 16 New
            +3
            Quote: aybolyt678
            1.Russia has the opportunity to fight while remaining in business. In the best traditions of the State Department. 2. And I do not know whether it is good or bad. 3. It seems to work but not happy. This is not in Russian

            1.Not Russia, but Russia.
            2.Very bad.
            3. Does not work ... At least not in favor of Russia and the Russians.
      2. Observer2014
        Observer2014 6 July 2020 20: 52 New
        -3
        Quote: Insurgent
        Boroday called the LPR and the DPR a de facto part of Russia. Is it really?

        But when you start to figure out how, in fact, the fun begins, Peskov says that he hears for the first time lol ,and generally speaking "out of business", and Strelkov completely set Beard empty-chime ...

        Press Secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov commented on the statement of the first Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic Alexander Borodai that the DPR and LPR will soon become part of Russia.
        Quote: D. Peskov
        As for some steps towards Russia, I do not have information on this



        The ex-head of the DPR Defense Ministry Igor Strelkov praised the words of the former prime minister of the DPR, Alexander Borodai, that the Donbass could become part of Russia. He did not believe in the words of his former supporter and called them "an irresponsible chatter."

        Quote: I.I. Strelkov
        Irresponsible chatter. That’s all I can say about the opinion of Beard. He said this in order to look like an ultrapatriot

        According to him, for the sake of a red phrase, Boroday would not spare his own father. Strelkov noted that the DPR and LPR will someday certainly become part of Russia. Boroday speaks about this for the sole purpose - to look like an ultrapatriot.
        You see how politics has hardened you. You yourself don’t believe yours. Well, in the sense with whom on the same side of the front. Agree cool thing policy. Which is easier. Shoot at a specific enemy. Or politically defend your interests? Or easier? There is a specific enemy. Here .... It could be anything. wink
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 6 July 2020 13: 26 New
    0
    And I recently said that I am the king of the Universe of Old sofas in our high-rise building ...
    I mean that everyone can and says that he wants, that he wants to see as such and that censorship does not prohibit.
    Well, but the fact .... In general, they also did not recognize me as the king of the universe ... So far ...
    1. A good one
      A good one 6 July 2020 13: 32 New
      0
      I’m embarrassed to ask if the brunette Sparrow Feather was advertising this sofa. wink
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 6 July 2020 13: 36 New
      +7
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      did not recognize ...

      And this is while your sofa is not on photon traction ...
      But in essence: how much more will LDNR be in limbo?
    3. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 6 July 2020 14: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      In general, they also did not recognize me as the king of the universe.

      You must be more modest lol
  3. Svarog
    Svarog 6 July 2020 13: 31 New
    0
    Ukraine is a bankrupt country, while the United States is completely controlled by the United States, neither the United States nor Ukraine is profitable to have LDNR as part of it .. they are expensive .. But the situation that the United States can aggravate at any time. For this reason, the node is still not cut. Although in 2014 this issue could be solved very quickly .. and now too .. but the Russian leadership is afraid of personal sanctions .. In any case, Russia will have to resolve the issue.
    Ukrainian non-politicians are increasingly declaring war against Russia .. so it makes no sense to wait, it is necessary to include LDNR in Russia.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 6 July 2020 14: 46 New
      +1
      how much does it cost to create your “Andoru” on the border of the United States and Mexico? - all in all --- the independent Russian policy in the world
  4. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 6 July 2020 13: 33 New
    -5
    The entry of the LPR and the DPR into Russia is close. Decision Speed:
    For the entry of Donbass into the Russian Federation to take place, all that is needed is Russia's desire.

    It does not depend on Russia's desire, as it might seem at first glance, but on the rating of the Russian authorities. This is a trump card in the upcoming elections of 2021 (if not earlier, we must also launch SP-2) ...
    1. BecmepH
      BecmepH 6 July 2020 18: 04 New
      0
      Quote: ROSS 42
      in the future

      Exactly!!!
  5. Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 6 July 2020 13: 35 New
    +9
    Putin recently said that during the collapse of the USSR, the former Soviet republics received a huge number of “traditional Russian historical territories,” and it would be nice to return these territories received as gifts. I hope the second step after the Crimea will be the long-suffering Donbass.
    1. iouris
      iouris 11 July 2020 16: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: Anatole Klim
      Putin recently said that

      The Russian Federation is part of Russia.
      1. Anatole Klim
        Anatole Klim 11 July 2020 16: 42 New
        0
        Quote: iouris
        The Russian Federation is part of Russia.

        Sorry, I didn’t understand your promise, the Russian Federation is a part of the Russian Empire, the RSFSR, the USSR, I just didn’t understand that you mean that the Russian Federation is a part, why?
  6. Aleksandr21
    Aleksandr21 6 July 2020 13: 37 New
    +3
    Observing the situation for 5 years (after the signing of the Minsk agreements) I come to the conclusion that the current situation, when the conflict is frozen and does not move from a dead point, suits all participants and guarantors of these agreements. Everything is clear with Ukraine as a whole, they were not going to and are not going to implement these Minsk agreements, the position has also become clear with the EU (over that time), probably many have noticed that the sanctions are being extended against Russia every year, but neither Germany nor France doesn’t force Ukraine to comply with these agreements, it would be possible to resolve this very quickly, but negotiations are ongoing from year to year and there is no result, everything is very interesting with the position of Russia, on the one hand we are trying to force Ukraine to comply with the Minsk agreements , but on the other we understand that Ukraine will not fulfill them and the EU (in the person of Germany, France) is also somehow in no hurry to put pressure on Ukraine. And it turns out that this is a dead end .... why then do not we leave these agreements and do not solve the problem differently? Maybe then, the EU will feel that the smell is fried and you really need to solve the problem and not create the illusion of endless negotiations. Because this story will last until the conflict situation / guarantor of the agreements is satisfied with the current situation, and whatever our media writes that the process has begun, the situation is changing and everything else .... 5 years, this situation does not move from a dead point and may still be in this position for another 10-15 years. As for the future of LDNR, I don’t see the political will of the leadership to accept them as part of Russia, I see bargaining when our negotiators try to push LDN back to Ukraine on our terms and remove the sanctions from Russia, but there is no desire to accept them as part of Russia. And no matter what Borodai, Pushilin would say, these are not the people who influence this process.
    1. BecmepH
      BecmepH 6 July 2020 18: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Aleksandr21
      we are trying to force Ukraine to comply with the Minsk agreements,

      How so?
      1. Aleksandr21
        Aleksandr21 6 July 2020 19: 19 New
        -1
        Quote: BecmepH
        How so?


        By political pressure and negotiation. I do not think that our negotiators come to meetings empty-handed, for sure they have some trump cards that can put pressure on Ukraine. For example, the entry of LDNR into Ukraine (on our terms). Ukraine is not interested in such a situation, but it cannot refuse to negotiate, because then Russia can recognize the independence of these republics, take it eventually into Russia, or simply prevent the return of the Donbass to Ukraine, does this create pressure on Ukraine? definitely. Another thing is that we do not use all the tools and levers to solve this problem, because sanctions against Ukraine can be carried out. some kind of economic leverage, etc. there is simply no political will for a tougher approach

        Or maybe it’s an attempt to somehow exert pressure on Ukraine in general, an illusion and behind the scenes we have already agreed on everything that the situation is freezing and creating the appearance of negotiations, I also do not exclude this option. And how it really is only known to the negotiators .... the only thing that can be said for sure is that there is no result, why there is none, I don’t know ...
        1. BecmepH
          BecmepH 7 July 2020 17: 36 New
          0
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          By political pressure and negotiation.

          Or maybe an attempt to put pressure on Ukraine in general is an illusion
          Contradict yourself))
  7. Livonetc
    Livonetc 6 July 2020 13: 40 New
    +4
    After all, there is no doubt that South Ossetia will sooner or later become part of Russia.
    Donetsk and Lugansk regions have every right to do so.
    Russia has long stood firmly under the sun in this world.
    Time does not work fleetingly.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 6 July 2020 13: 41 New
      0
      Why is there no doubt?
      1. A good one
        A good one 6 July 2020 13: 50 New
        -5
        Quote: Kronos
        Why is there no doubt?

        Then on quick wits, who and what is this Sonork wink
    2. parusnik
      parusnik 6 July 2020 14: 30 New
      +1
      After all, there is no doubt that South Ossetia will sooner or later become part of Russia.
      ..... And are there any doubts in Abkhazia? It’s interesting there .. according to passports, all or almost all citizens of the Russian Federation live in an independent republic ... And this independent republic with Russian citizens for some reason is not part of the Russian Federation ... And in South Ossetia the same picture ... in the PMR ...
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. mvg
    mvg 6 July 2020 14: 19 New
    -3
    In order for the entry of Donbass into the Russian Federation to take place, only Russia's wishes are enough

    Where such confidence? Against the Russian Federation and so almost the whole world. It will be possible to forget about the sale of oil and gas, weapons. Any international projects like a joint venture. And the fact that NATO bases will appear even faster at the borders of the Russian Federation is for sure.
    China will impose any conditions on us. Minus India ..
    It seems that something like this. Even Belarus does not recognize this, as it did not recognize Ossetia.
    1. Shadow041
      Shadow041 6 July 2020 15: 50 New
      +7
      One might think that patients with Russophobia of the republic of the former USSR, under any conditions, refuse to deploy US military bases on their territory. Do not write nonsense, these bases under any conditions will arise at the borders of the Russian Federation, until either the Russian Federation falls apart completely, or the USA and NATO fall apart ...
      1. mvg
        mvg 6 July 2020 16: 12 New
        0
        that patients with Russophobia of the republic of the former USSR, under any conditions, will refuse to deploy US military bases on their territory.

        Well, while in the sprat republics there are no bases. Yes, and in the same Latvia or Estonia is not such a disastrous mood, as they say. For example, I don’t want the next race to begin, and 25 km from my house there were NATO’s tanks. Like it or not, NATO is noticeably richer and stronger.
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 6 July 2020 20: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: mvg
          For example, I don’t want the next race to begin, and 25 km from my house there were NATO’s tanks. Like it or not, NATO is noticeably richer and stronger.

          Not too late to want. The race has long begun.
    2. Dart
      Dart 7 July 2020 18: 56 New
      0
      wassat I feel that hung in the air - "all the worlds" ... was this meant? laughing
  10. Courier
    Courier 6 July 2020 14: 20 New
    -14
    The entry of LDNR into the Russian Federation will be the biggest mistake.
    Perhaps from distant sofas, these republics seem dearer, but as soon as the militants there go, with experience, with weapons, people's eyes will open.
    Nobody needs a second Afghanistan at hand, and current LDNRs are very similar to it.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 6 July 2020 15: 15 New
      +5
      Quote: Courier
      Perhaps from distant sofas, these republics seem dearer, but as soon as the militants there go, with experience, with weapons, people's eyes will open.

      And what is it I did not go before belay what ? laughing

      And yes ... you courier State Depot, Ali Kiev?
  11. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 6 July 2020 14: 30 New
    0
    Let's not go into particulars and details. Let everyone ask themselves - and you are on the side of the Donbass? This will be the most truthful answer. And then it will begin - Strelkov, horseradish ...
  12. Freedim
    Freedim 6 July 2020 14: 33 New
    +2
    Let them duplicate all the legal aspects of separating Kosovo from Serbia ... And they are being separated from the Khokhlostan in the same scenario on the basis of a referendum. If Europe is excited, then provide the UN with tracing of both scenarios. Then the bourgeoisie will either have to Agree with the “topic”, or recognize the separation of Kosovo as illegal and return it to Serbian jurisdiction. They are unlikely to go to the latter, because they do not care about ukrov, and their shirt is closer to the body. Later, as independent states, the Republics will be able to do whatever they want. And the Russians are unlikely to refuse.
    1. Dmitry10SPb
      Dmitry10SPb 12 July 2020 21: 59 New
      0
      It will not work "to provide the UN with tracing paper for both scenarios," unless you immediately shout: "I'm in the house!" Then yes - it might work. The difference between the economies of Russia and the EU is too great with America. And Britain. They will be punished with sanctions. The strong, you see, is always to blame for the powerless.
      And then, separation from Ukraine will not solve the problem of the fallen living standards of the Donbass people. Factories in ruin. There 15 thousand - wage hoo.
  13. Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 6 July 2020 15: 25 New
    +2
    Donetsk and Lugansk regions will be fully incorporated into Russia no later than 2024
    1. parma
      parma 6 July 2020 15: 46 New
      -5
      They won’t enter anywhere ... the shaft of patriotism from the annexation of Crimea has already passed, the east of Ukraine is generally only interested in TV talkers ... LDNR’s accession to Russia and subsequent sanctions will bring more discontent to people than support to the leadership (and it’s more after retirement, after VAT, quarantine and zeroing) ... respectively, these republics are a political corpse and their fate may never be decided at all (Transdniestria is the same corpse for almost 30 years, Ossetia and Abkhazia have been more than 10 years old) ... well, except after another geopolitical redrawing maps of Europe ..
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent 6 July 2020 15: 46 New
      +6
      Quote: Imperial Technocrat
      Donetsk and Lugansk regions will be fully incorporated into Russia no later than 2024

      "+" only for an optimistic forecast, I do not even ask for its justification.
      After all, it’s enough, to be honest on the most ...
      1. Imperial Technocrat
        Imperial Technocrat 7 July 2020 16: 58 New
        -1
        Read the channel to understand what is happening in the world
        https://t.me/dvaplustwo
      2. Imperial Technocrat
        Imperial Technocrat 18 July 2020 19: 48 New
        -2
        This is not an optimistic forecast, but an ordinary one. More precisely, the script
    3. Shadow041
      Shadow041 6 July 2020 15: 46 New
      +4
      Your words, god in ears
    4. sevryuk
      sevryuk 6 July 2020 21: 40 New
      +2
      What does "part of Russia" mean? Your Russia is the former RSFSR. Everything will develop in the context of recognizing Bialowieza a crime and the punishment of all separatists. Reunion, only reunion!
    5. Dmitry10SPb
      Dmitry10SPb 12 July 2020 22: 05 New
      0
      Clear. Do you think it's time to buy dollars and euros, but is it too early to stock up on cereals and canned food? For very strong sanctions are likely for border violations in Europe. Type of Iranian. Impoverished.
  14. Shadow041
    Shadow041 6 July 2020 15: 46 New
    +5
    And legally, here 2 questions arise 1) Ukraine became part of Russia within the borders of 1654 and there was no Donbass in its composition. Leaving the Soviet Union taking along lands that were never part of an independent Ukraine is essentially an occupation of these lands, which Putin recently hinted at clearly. The recognition of the borders of Ukraine by the Russian Federation was subject to reservations about the neutral status of Ukraine and its compliance with the friendship treaty with the Russian Federation. Ukraine gathered in NATO under Yushchenko, and fought against Russia in Chechnya in the 90s and 2000s and I do not need to write the opposite, since Ukraine did not extradite a single Bandera who fought against Russia in Chechnya at the request of the Russian prosecutor's office. Ukraine has never even issued thieves and scammers who fled from Russia with a stolen RF. The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine even provided apartments for those who fought against the Russian Federation in Ossetia, because it is far from a secret that Russian aircraft were shot down by Georgian Armed Forces officers, not Georgian shepherds. With all this, the Russian Federation has every right and reason to forget that it once recognized the borders of Ukraine. 2) Ukraine is not going to implement the Minsk agreements, so spending time on this useless chatter no longer makes any sense, and it is simply necessary to stop the genocide of the Russian people organized by Bandera in the Donbass. ... Conclusion - You can really stop Bandera lawlessness only by returning the Donbass to the Russian Federation, at least within the borders within which it is now controlled by LDNR. Only this will stop the endless Bandera shelling of residential areas and the death of civilians.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 6 July 2020 15: 54 New
      +5
      Quote: Shadow041
      Conclusion - You can really stop Bandera lawlessness only by returning the Donbass to the Russian Federation, at least within the borders within which it is now controlled by LDNR.

      If someday I’ll be asked about my opinion of such an entry into the Russian Federation as “bits” of republics, then I’ll answer - NO, DO NOT AGREE!
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 6 July 2020 18: 14 New
        -1
        In another way it is necessary to fight with Ukraine, no one will do it
  15. tech3030
    tech3030 6 July 2020 16: 56 New
    0
    Would Russia also allow shelling and killing of its citizens with impunity? If so then this is very bad!
  16. Revolver
    Revolver 6 July 2020 18: 32 New
    0
    If you look at history and geography, it’s clear that Donbass, and indeed the whole southeast of Ukraine, has a place in Russia. Central Ukraine, in principle, both here and here, although historically it is also part of Russia, albeit with cultural and ethnic specifics. But Galicia and Volhynia are a special article, and hell with them, let them take back even Austria-Hungary, even Poland. Well, it is true that Austria in modern geography is kagbe and not with her hands, so the choice is between Magyars and Poles. Both those and others are not particularly distinguished by special respect for Bandera and love for his followers, rather the opposite.
  17. acetophenon
    acetophenon 6 July 2020 18: 54 New
    +1
    Today, Ukraine is an enemy of Russia. Not a rival. Not a competitor. Not an adversary. Enemy.
    The enemy is powerless. DNI / LC Ukraine - like a harpoon in the side. Neither pull out nor ignore.
    And extracting it is in no way in the interests of Russia. Today.
    It is these considerations that our leaders will be guided by.
    And what will happen next - life will show.
  18. Mikle2000
    Mikle2000 6 July 2020 20: 04 New
    0
    LDNR is the gray zone in the worst sense of the word. There is no end to the edge of this situation, since it suits everyone - both the Russian leadership and the Ukrainian leadership and the leadership of the LPR.
    A little uncomfortable for residents - but who is asking them?
  19. Old26
    Old26 6 July 2020 21: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: Guards turn
    According to him, one of the amendments (speech on article 67) is supplemented by the concept of "federal territories". "This is the way to return to Russia the Russian lands that some former Soviet republics" took "with them."

    Of course there is an article, but what lands did the former Soviet republics "take" with them? This amendment to article 67 - so far nothing

    Quote: Anatole Klim
    Putin recently said that during the collapse of the USSR, the former Soviet republics received a huge number of “traditional Russian historical territories,” and it would be nice to return these territories received as gifts. I hope the second step after the Crimea will be the long-suffering Donbass.

    Putin said this to support the identity of the electorate. In reality, there is no main thing. Reference points ...

    Quote: Livonetc
    After all, there is no doubt that South Ossetia will sooner or later become part of Russia.
    Donetsk and Lugansk regions have every right to do so.
    Russia has long stood firmly under the sun in this world.
    Time does not work fleetingly.

    Sooner or later, something will happen. Moreover, South Ossetia and Abkhazia have better chances (theoretically) than Donetsk and Lugansk

    Quote: FreeDIM
    Let them duplicate all the legal aspects of separating Kosovo from Serbia ...

    The most important legal aspect was that Kosovo was autonomy within Serbia. Well, then - further double standards. To one - to one's opponents - another

    Quote: Shadow041
    And legally, here 2 questions arise 1) Ukraine became part of Russia within the borders of 1654 and there was no Donbass in its composition. Leaving the Soviet Union taking along lands that were never part of independent Ukraine is essentially an occupation of these lands, which Putin recently hinted at in no uncertain terms.

    What about the borders of Russia in 1654? Should we also give the neighbors the lands that they later received as a result of wars?

    Quote: Shadow041
    Ukraine gathered in NATO under Yushchenko, and fought against Russia in Chechnya in the 90s and 2000s and I do not need to write the opposite, since Ukraine did not extradite a single Bandera who fought against Russia in Chechnya at the request of the Russian prosecutor's office. Ukraine has never even issued thieves and scammers who fled from Russia with a stolen RF. The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine even provided apartments for those who fought against the Russian Federation in Ossetia, because it is far from a secret that Russian aircraft were shot down by Georgian Armed Forces officers, not Georgian shepherds. With all this, the Russian Federation has every right and reason to forget that it once recognized the borders of Ukraine.

    Nda. There is such a famous expression: "In the garden of elderberry, and in Kiev the uncle." So you have everything in one bottle ...
    This is about the situation. You and I have common borders on garden plots. Your son climbed several times on my unit, surrounded the apple trees, trampled the colors. I complained to you about him, but you took no action. And therefore, I have the right to completely forget that I recognized the boundaries of your site and can chop off your 90 percent? So what?

    Quote: Shadow041
    2) Ukraine is not going to implement the Minsk agreements, so spending time on this useless chatter no longer makes any sense, and it’s simply necessary to stop the genocide of the Russian people organized by Bandera in the Donbass. ... Conclusion - You can really stop Bandera lawlessness only by returning the Donbass to the Russian Federation, at least within the borders within which it is now controlled by LDNR. Only this will stop the endless Bandera shelling of residential areas and the death of civilians.

    Ukraine is not going to implement the Minsk agreements. There is not even a word from the separation of these two regions. According to the constitution, Ukraine is a unitary state and there is no provision for the withdrawal of regions from Ukraine. Crimea was the only autonomy that could theoretically secede from Ukraine, and even then, no one had read fully the decisions of the Politburo on transferring Crimea to Ukraine ...
    Alas, it’s not yet possible to stop the shelling of civilians, although people are terribly sorry ....

    Quote: Insurgent
    Quote: Shadow041
    Conclusion - You can really stop Bandera lawlessness only by returning the Donbass to the Russian Federation, at least within the borders within which it is now controlled by LDNR.

    If someday I’ll be asked about my opinion of such an entry into the Russian Federation as “bits” of republics, then I’ll answer - NO, DO NOT AGREE!

    But only those who live there are unlikely to agree to this, and it is extremely difficult to return it. Maybe the regime will change over time - then something can be done, but now it’s unlikely
  20. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 6 July 2020 21: 07 New
    0
    All this is already understandable.
    "former Prime Minister of the Donetsk People's Republic ..." I think, in the know.
    Moreover, a bunch of their former senior officials now live in Russia. And not in the republics
  21. iouris
    iouris 6 July 2020 21: 12 New
    -2
    "De facto" all Ukraine is Russia. And sho?
  22. flicker
    flicker 7 July 2020 01: 04 New
    0
    First of all, the legal documents that determine the fate of the Donbass are non-working Minsk agreements.
    Why don't they work?
    Is it because Ukraine is afraid to sign them. As soon as Ukraine signs them, it will not be immediately. So, legally, both the LPR and the DPR (and not only them!) Become completely independent.
    ---
    Do not sign - it will actually mean a legal rejection of the LPR and the DPR.
    ---
    And all this can happen before the end of this year - the destructive processes in the world are starting to develop very painfully. In the world - where Ukraine has no place.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. nikvic46
    nikvic46 8 July 2020 06: 42 New
    0
    In Donetsk and Lugansk there are peaceful people who work at their enterprises. I have a question. What labor laws do these people work for. I think in Russian. But maybe I'm wrong.
  25. Diviz
    Diviz 11 July 2020 14: 16 New
    +1
    And give out Russian passports to all Russian-speaking Ukrainians.