Military Review

National Interest "debunking the myth of the self-cleaning AK-47"

200
National Interest "debunking the myth of the self-cleaning AK-47"

One of the most popular assault rifles in the world is, of course, the Kalashnikov assault rifle. And its popularity is not limited to TVD or shooting clubs. It is reflected on the pages of the media, and from the most different countries of the world. The American The National Interest did not stand aside from its attempt to "analyze" the Kalashnikov assault rifle. The author dwells on the AK-47 version.


He writes that the popularity of the AK-47 in the world is huge: the machine appears in films, in computer games, and has been used in numerous conflicts around the world.

NI:

AK-47 is a real cultural phenomenon.

At the same time, the author in the American media notes that recently the "version" is gaining momentum, according to which the author of this rifle weapons is the constructor of the German StG44 Hugo Schmeiser.

From the article:

Externally, AK and StG44 are very similar, but inside there are noticeable differences, including in operation. It is also true that each weapon has different firing mechanisms, as well as assembly / disassembly configurations. Simply put, AK is by no means a direct copy of German weapons. This is a myth testifying to the fact that the AK-47 is just the Soviet version of the StG44. However, the same myth as assuming that self-taught Kalashnikov designed the AK-47 on his own. Weapon developers rarely start from scratch, and this has been true since gunpowder. Each new weapon is built on past projects, and this is certainly true for the AK-47, which really was not the first Soviet assault rifle.

Further, the author (Peter Suciu) "debunking the myth of the self-cleaning AK-47." He begins by recalling the American M16, which was called the "self-cleaning" assault rifle, when it began to be armed with American troops fighting in Vietnam.

From an article by Peter Suchu:

The myth of "self-cleaning" persists for the AK-47, and although the weapon can work in difficult conditions, if not supported, it will quickly become as effective as a wooden baton.

The author notes that self-cleaning weapons are a priori myth, since without leaving any “trunk” will soon let the owner know that it is time to carry out a “general cleaning”.
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  1. sedoj
    sedoj 5 July 2020 15: 23
    19
    The myth of "self-cleaning" persists for the AK-47

    Why is this a myth? An unkempt Kalashnikov is capable of "self-cleaning" from its krivoruk master.
    1. Shurik70
      Shurik70 5 July 2020 16: 01
      26
      This is the first time I've ever heard of a "self-cleaning" weapon.
      What kind of nonsense?
      1. sedoj
        sedoj 5 July 2020 16: 10
        +3
        You yourself voiced: "Delirium".
        1. Vicontas
          Vicontas 5 July 2020 18: 39
          18
          If the Americans hit myths - give them the same! : M-16 - Wedges when dirty. AK -47 - Works when dirty. Mosin rifle - Has not been clean since entering the troops in 1892. M16 - a hundred moving parts fastened by dozens of bolts and cogs. AK - 47 - A pair of dozens of moving parts held by a handful of rivets and the ugly seams of a drunken Russian welder. Mosin rifle - three moving parts and two screws. M16 - you’re more likely to die than to break this expensive rifle in hand-to-hand combat. AK - 47 - with your machine you can beat off well in hand-to-hand combat. The Mosin rifle is a cool spear with the ability to shoot. M16 - More difficult to manufacture than some aircraft. AK-47 - used by countries that do not have money for airplanes. Mosin rifle - planes were shot down from it. M16 - makes a neat little hole, in accordance with the Geneva Convention. AK-47 - makes a large hole, sometimes tearing off limbs. Does not comply with the Geneva Convention. The Mosin rifle is one of the reasons for the creation of the Geneva Convention. M16 - perfectly shoots small rodents. AK-47 - perfectly shoots enemies of the motherland. Mosin rifle - perfectly shoots light armored vehicles. M16 - once in the river, it stops working. AK-47 - hitting the river continues to shoot. Mosin rifle - hitting the river is used as an oar. M16 - you can install a silencer - a small cartridge does not give a lot of noise. AK-47 - in principle, you can put a silencer, but it is better to simply press the enemies to the ground with continuous fire. Mosin rifle - what for a silencer, when after the first shot will everyone go deaf? M16 - weapon of attack. AK-47 is a weapon of war. Mosin Rifle - Victory Weapon! Postscript - M16 - The owner’s favorite drink is whiskey. AK-47 is the owner’s favorite drink - vodka. The Mosin rifle is the owner’s favorite drink - brake fluid poured over a frozen crowbar.
          1. cradle
            cradle 6 July 2020 10: 33
            +3
            brake fluid drained over a frozen crowbar- best!
      2. military_cat
        military_cat 5 July 2020 16: 12
        +2
        Since the Americans have denied this, it’s certainly true. How to drink, give. Do not go to a fortuneteller. Infa sotochka.
      3. tuts
        tuts 5 July 2020 16: 57
        +3
        in the instructions for M16 it was so indicated
        that the rifle is self-cleaning, to prepare for firing it is enough to wipe it with a clean rag.
        Believing in the self-cleaning of the rifle, the US Army did not order weapon cleaning kits during initial purchases. This was done for reasons of economy. For the same reason, ammunition began to equip with gunpowder, used in the equipment of cartridges 7.62 × 51mm NATO. It gave more solid residues of combustion products than gunpowder type IMR from Dupont, which equipped the first ammunition for AR-15 / M16.

        watch from 1:40
        1. Shurik70
          Shurik70 5 July 2020 21: 36
          0
          Quote: tots
          in the instructions for M16 it was so indicated

          So this is where it came from!
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 6 July 2020 19: 17
          0
          Pomnitsa, this is a good beat in Shooting some sacred cows - The history of US small arms for 100 years.
          Army: ok, scientists, really yours. This M14 still does not do anything that Garand was not capable of, and, to tell the truth, Garand did the same thing better. Sorry, Springfield. So, right now, we’ll improve your AR10. First, change the shutter, change the pitch of the rifling and change the ammunition. And here we’ll fasten such a figovka on the side. What, Eugene, did it get any better?

          Stoner: uh ... actually, you'd better not do it. You see, this was intended to ...

          Army: actually you are required to say what you liked!

          Stoner: Well then, we seemed to disappoint each other (real quote).

          Infantry: Stoner, scum, come here! This is your rifle ...

          Stoner: so now it's MY rifle ?!

          Infantry: Well, mostly yours. Her shutter wedges every five minutes! Especially when the parts remain during assembly (real quote)! What about "does not need cleaning"?

          Stoner: who said he didn't need?

          Infantry: Yes, in Colt they said that it is self-cleaning!

          Stoner: NZHK? No! This vent pipe is self-cleaning. Only the handset.

          Infantry: Cho? And I put sticks with rags there and stuffed all kinds of things, cleaned them, began to be. And she breaks! It’s good that by 1970 we would be given back the beloved .30 caliber.
      4. PSih2097
        PSih2097 5 July 2020 21: 30
        0
        Quote: Shurik70
        This is the first time I've ever heard of a "self-cleaning" weapon.
        What kind of nonsense?

        in mods for toys like a stalker, armah this thing is present, it is taken from the game, and not from real life, although from the simulator thereof (survival) ...
        Quote: tots
        that the rifle is self-cleaning, to prepare for firing it is enough to wipe it with a clean rag.
        Believing in the self-cleaning rifle

        do not confuse the training ground and the real battle, which can last more than one day (as it was in Vietnam) ...
      5. Alf
        Alf 5 July 2020 22: 13
        +2
        Quote: Shurik70
        What kind of nonsense?

        This is National Interest. He also gives out not such "pearls" ...
      6. cdrt
        cdrt 6 July 2020 18: 38
        0
        as I understand it, we are talking about the fact that the gas system with a long stroke is built so that to a large extent remove carbon deposits when the piston moves
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 July 2020 15: 24
    +7
    The only self-cleaning screaming is the cobblestone of the proletariat! I applied it to the destination, washed it with rain and you can again build barricades !!! laughing
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 5 July 2020 20: 00
      +4
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      washed with rain and you can again build barricades !!!

      You have not read the instructions, I see. Self-cleaning occurs during the next application, if not dry ...
  3. AshiSolo
    AshiSolo 5 July 2020 15: 24
    +5
    Peter talent, can grow into a worthy competitor captain of evidence. lol
  4. mat-vey
    mat-vey 5 July 2020 15: 24
    +1
    "However, the same myth as suggesting that the self-taught Kalashnikov designed the AK-47 himself." - there is no need to "suppose" myths, let alone spread them.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 July 2020 15: 34
      +5
      Quote: mat-vey
      it is not necessary to "assume" myths, let alone spread them.

      That is why a world that is divided into two parts, one smart part creates it, and the second its stupid part creates myths.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 5 July 2020 15: 37
        +2
        Then it is already in three parts - the third part as "bazum old women" carries them to minds ... And the more stupid the myth is, the more difficult it is to erase it from the "minds" later.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 5 July 2020 15: 44
          0
          Quote: mat-vey
          Then it is already in three parts - the third part, like "coarse old women", carries them across the minds.

          Rather, the agency "One woman told a secret" (my mother-in-law).
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 5 July 2020 15: 46
            +2
            Yes, I just tried to quote a classic:
            ..And, like flies, here and there
            There are rumors about home
            And toothless old women
            They are carried to the minds!
            They are being carried to the minds! ...
        2. BARKAS
          BARKAS 5 July 2020 16: 59
          +2
          Recently, there have been a lot of such articles lately supposedly invented by a myth and immediately debunked it.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 09
            0
            Quote: BARKAS
            Recently, there have been a lot of such articles lately supposedly invented by a myth and immediately debunked it.

            But by ear and not like everyone else.
    2. good
      good 5 July 2020 20: 06
      +1
      If Stone is also not a gunsmith, and many other creators of well-known models were not gunsmiths engineers and were not at all engineers.
      Any shooting product is made by a team of designers, testers, technologists, locksmiths, and even clerks who prepare the documentation.
      But to challenge the contribution of the creators of weapons is not worth it.
  5. gvozdan
    gvozdan 5 July 2020 15: 28
    +4
    Themselves invented myths themselves expose
  6. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 5 July 2020 15: 31
    -1
    Rollers walk in Yu-Tube: a man spreads thick liquid mud in a trough with a shovel, piles on two types of weapons from two sides and then shoots.
    Kalash fires several bullets in a burst, and then he is wedged tightly. The shutter does not distort.
    M-16 spits on one pool, each time it is necessary to distort the shutter.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 July 2020 15: 49
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      heaps on two sides on different types of weapons and then shoots.
      Kalash fires several bullets in a burst, and then he is wedged tightly. Shutter do not distort

      It would be better if he crawled along African sand for a kilometer with AK or M-16, it is more real.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 05
        13
        It’s true there, then meticulous people found out that AK was not Soviet .... so ...
        1. Carnifexx
          Carnifexx 5 July 2020 16: 27
          -2
          Yeah ... and the same guys tested the Bulgarian Kalash, as well as the Finnish Velmet (these are the best examples of coughs that way) and the result is slightly better than the Romanian (the one from the first video). They also tested the AP-15 in different versions, including a replica of the first version (without a rammer and a deflector for the sleeve)
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 5 July 2020 16: 06
        +1
        It was me who crawled through the sand-dust to my heart's content ... from the M-16. She started "coughing" if she fell into the sand. A dozen bullets and ... a misfire. You twist, throw out the cartridge, and again a dozen or two bullets, until the next misfire. But never got stuck because of the sand.
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 5 July 2020 18: 22
          +3
          Misfire from the sand? USM inadequately worked? Was the capsule pricking?
  7. Junior Warrant Officer
    Junior Warrant Officer 5 July 2020 15: 31
    +2
    When I served, after shooting, I had a self-cleaning machine.
    PS Hello Seryozha from Dzhankoy! Thanks for the work you've done :)
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 6 July 2020 18: 39
      +1
      Quote: Junior Ensign
      When I served, after shooting, I had a self-cleaning machine.
      PS Hello Seryozha from Dzhankoy! Thanks for the work you've done :)

      The soldiers laid parachutes for me - yes, but I cleaned the weapons myself - you never know! laughing
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. Evdokim
    Evdokim 5 July 2020 15: 33
    +2
    NI:

    AK-47 is a real cultural phenomenon.

    Americans do not buy fakes and other counterfeit products, buy from the manufacturer !!!!! good
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 July 2020 16: 16
      +2
      Quote: Evdokim
      Americans do not buy fakes and other counterfeit products, buy from the manufacturer !!!!!
      A good product is the AK-47, but has not been released since 1959. Maybe where in warehouses and heaped up, but most likely already sold out. Last time I saw the AK-47 on the ships of the Navy. in 1969.
      1. Evdokim
        Evdokim 5 July 2020 17: 13
        0
        Quote: tihonmarine
        A good product is the AK-47, but has not been released since 1959.

        For a good price they will produce. Most likely Americans call AKM, AK-47. Any Kalashnikov 7,62 is an AK-47. laughing
      2. good
        good 5 July 2020 20: 16
        +2
        Serial AK-103 is no worse.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. fn34440
    fn34440 5 July 2020 15: 35
    -1
    It is a pity that the non-students in their article did not write that a rubber product No. 2, stretched over the barrel, will prevent dust and sand so that your machine is ready at the right time!
    Only personal experience convinces of this. There are also tricks to maintain, but this does not apply to Chinese and Bulgarian crafts.
    Reply
    1. ssergey1978
      ssergey1978 5 July 2020 18: 05
      -2
      The quality of the Bulgarian crafts, as you put it, is at least not lower than Izhevsk
  12. D16
    D16 5 July 2020 15: 35
    +4
    Weapon developers rarely start from scratch, and this has been true since gunpowder

    But what about his submachine gun and the three AK-46 variants?
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 5 July 2020 15: 40
      +4
      Quote: D16
      Weapon developers rarely start from scratch, and this has been true since gunpowder

      But what about his submachine gun and the three AK-46 variants?

      And also a carbine - the shutter of which served, if I may say so the basis of AK.
      1. D16
        D16 5 July 2020 15: 46
        +2
        Here it is not necessary. There was no such shutter in the PC laughing . Kalashnikov did not invent anything new in the AK-47, but he very successfully assembled the solutions developed before him in the new machine. From this, he does not cease to be an automaton Kalashnikov.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 5 July 2020 15: 49
          +4
          Quote: D16
          Here it is not necessary. There was no such shutter in the PC

          And where does the PP if it was
          Quote: mat-vey
          And also a carbine - the shutter of which served, if I may say so the basis of AK.

          I didn’t invent, but I got five patents ..
          1. D16
            D16 5 July 2020 15: 57
            -1
            Actually, I didn’t just put a smiley face. And for some reason Garand didn’t do an assault rifle from his carbine, and if he did, I don’t know anything about it laughing .
            I didn’t invent, but I got five patents ..
            So he invented it. But obviously not a vent pipe, a sliding rotary shutter and a cartridge 7.62x39.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 02
              +2
              Quote: D16
              Actually, I didn’t just put a smiley face. And for some reason Garand didn’t do an assault rifle from his carbine

              Have you ever tried to compare the shutter and bolt frame of the Guarantor and the Kalashnikov carbine?
              Well, then AK bolt and carbine bolt?
              Quote: D16
              But obviously not a vent pipe, a sliding rotary shutter and a cartridge 7.62x39.
              - this is exactly the version of the shutter he "invented" his own ..
              1. D16
                D16 5 July 2020 16: 08
                -3
                It means "invented". And then it was "invented" by the Belgians and Jews.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 11
                  +5
                  Quote: D16
                  It means "invented". And then it was "invented" by the Belgians and Jews.

                  So what’s criminal on their part?
                  And you don’t hint at the Jews in the case of the Jews? So no one there hides that it’s a so-called kosher AK.
                  1. D16
                    D16 5 July 2020 16: 14
                    0
                    Forgive me for asking a question, but what is criminal in that Kalashnikov developed his own version of the shutter, working on this principle? After all, the shutter from Garanda in the AK-47 will not rise.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: D16
                      You’ll excuse me for asking a question, but what is criminal in that Kalashnikov developed his own version of the shutter, working on this principle?

                      Is this for sure a question for me, or am I misunderstood?
                      PySy and all the same, where does the Kalashnikov PP?
                      1. D16
                        D16 5 July 2020 16: 22
                        +1
                        And also a carbine - the shutter of which served, if I may say so the basis of AK.

                        I thought you were condemning Timofeyich for the shutter from Garand.
                      2. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 24
                        +2
                        What Kalashnikov did based on the idea of ​​the Guarantor is just a masterpiece, one can only envy.
            2. D16
              D16 5 July 2020 16: 16
              0
              Have you ever tried to compare the shutter and bolt frame of the Guarantor and the Kalashnikov carbine?

              I did not hold Garand.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 22
                +2
                Quote: D16
                Have you ever tried to compare the shutter and bolt frame of the Guarantor and the Kalashnikov carbine?

                I did not hold Garand.

                You won’t believe that there are a lot of photos on the Internet of both the Guarantor, the AK and the Kalashnikov carbine .. and even the AK-46. There’s even a disassembly video. And many people, just to create myths, to multiply, just get to know the mate part and that’s all business.
                1. D16
                  D16 5 July 2020 17: 01
                  0
                  You won’t believe it - there are a lot of photos on the Internet of both the Guarantor, the AK and the Kalashnikov carbine .. and even the AK-46. There’s even a video of disassembly.

                  I looked. Where is the cuckoo clock laughing But the principle of the shutter.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 06
                    0
                    Well, that's the genius - so to bring the idea to perfection, then at first glance you can’t say that it is one and the same idea.
          2. Samson S.
            Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 47
            -11 qualifying.
            Quote: D16
            And for some reason Garand didn’t do an assault rifle from his carbine

            And who needs assault rifles in the army?
            It was only the Germans who were perverted due to the weakness of their riflemen.
            And the USSR followed them. Due to the lack of education of decision makers. And then, due to the lack of shooter designers in the USSR (they left for Germany).
            And in the Russian Federation there are no such designers.
            Quote: D16
            So he invented it.

            Not invented. AK had a patent for a promo sample (for a new product). It is short-term and is not given for invention.
            1. D16
              D16 5 July 2020 17: 09
              +5
              And who needs assault rifles in the army?

              Well, not everyone can drive in a tank or an airplane.
              It was only the Germans who were perverted due to the weakness of their riflemen.

              In what place was she weak? The machine gun is still in service with Europe.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 24
                0
                Quote: D16
                In what place was she weak? The machine gun is still in service with Europe.

                You will laugh, but just because of the lack of machine guns and in order to save resources, they quickly adopted an intermediate cartridge and, accordingly, also weapons for it ..
                1. ssergey1978
                  ssergey1978 5 July 2020 18: 09
                  +2
                  It’s ridiculous. Apparently everyone still has a shortage of machine guns. Intermediate patrom is a natural stage of development.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 5 July 2020 18: 17
                    0
                    Quote: ssergey1978
                    It’s ridiculous. Apparently everyone still has a shortage of machine guns. Intermediate patrom is a natural stage of development.

                    So far, everything has changed dramatically after the Second World War. For some, this regular stage only became natural in Vietnam.
                    1. Samson S.
                      Samson S. 5 July 2020 20: 12
                      -4
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      For some, this logical step only in Vietnam became logical

                      M16 in any modification uses not an intermediate, but an infantry cartridge. Therefore, between M16 and AKM (and AK-74) there is nothing in common at all. Unless weapons are automatic everywhere.
                  2. Samson S.
                    Samson S. 5 July 2020 20: 10
                    -4
                    Quote: ssergey1978
                    Apparently everyone still has a shortage of machine guns. Intermediate patrom is a natural stage of development.

                    Intermediate cartridges from the 80s in the main armies of the world are not massively used. And until the end of the 40s, too, were not used.
                    The exception is only the cartridge 7,62x39 mm in the USSR. But he was recognized as a mistake in the 70s.
                2. D16
                  D16 5 July 2020 19: 24
                  +1
                  You will laugh, but just because of the lack of machine guns and in order to save resources, they quickly adopted an intermediate cartridge and, accordingly, also weapons for it ..

                  Still would. Four single machine guns in a platoon. Do not save up.
                3. Samson S.
                  Samson S. 5 July 2020 20: 08
                  -4
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  but just because of the lack of machine guns and in order to save resources, they quickly took an intermediate cartridge and, accordingly, also weapons for it ..

                  Bosh what.
                  The MP43 was adopted instead of the MP40 SPECIALLY for panzergenera.
                  This had nothing to do with machine guns. The lack of machine guns led to the adoption of the MG42 instead of the MG34.
              2. Samson S.
                Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 31
                -10 qualifying.
                Quote: D16
                Well, not everyone can drive in a tank or an airplane.

                Infantry needs infantry weapons.
                And assault weapons are needed only by a small number of assault groups.
                To equip all infantry with assault weapons is another Soviet delirium. Of which there were many.
                Quote: D16
                In what place was she weak?

                In all.
                The Germans had a very exotic shooter. No one in the world had anything like this. And now, no.
                The machine gun is still in service with Europe.

                MG42 died in 1945. He did not leave the heirs.
                MG5, this is a machine gun of another class.
                The only thing that has survived to our time is Walter, but on a post-war cartridge. And Vallière, on a warhead cartridge, is the same shit as the rest of the German rifleman during the war.
                But the USSR rifleman was EVEN WORSE.
                1. ssergey1978
                  ssergey1978 5 July 2020 18: 10
                  10
                  And I remember you by the infantry cartridge and the infantry rifle. Again, orderlies do not catch mice
                  1. Samson S.
                    Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 12
                    -11 qualifying.
                    Ага.
                    This is with you "that was not with me, I remember."
                    By the way, what is wrong with the infantry rifle?
                    And with an infantry cartridge?
                    1. ssergey1978
                      ssergey1978 5 July 2020 18: 31
                      +5
                      And no one did not understand what you call an infantry cartridge.
                    2. Samson S.
                      Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 37
                      -9
                      Quote: ssergey1978
                      And no one did not understand what you call an infantry cartridge.

                      Those who understand weapons understand what it is.
                      And those who do not understand, tpa you, let him learn.
                      Free educational program only in sandboxes happens.
                2. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 5 July 2020 18: 29
                  +8
                  This is the sixth toli month reincarnation of the fifth toli. At the same time, he constantly confuses the infantry and the intermediate. Rumor has it that it is someone Carbine. It was made in past incarnations.
                  1. ssergey1978
                    ssergey1978 5 July 2020 18: 32
                    +2
                    Korbaen was. I did not find his other hypostases
                  2. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 5 July 2020 18: 36
                    +5
                    Well, I'm not sure, but a couple of weeks ago, quite authoritative commentators accused the "infantry weapon" lover of being Carbine. I do not know whether he is or not, but stupid as a cork. I talked a couple of times. Zombies without brains.
                3. Samson S.
                  Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 38
                  -9
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  At the same time, he constantly confuses the infantry and the intermediate.

                  Do you know the difference?
                  Or, as is customary in Runet, you don’t know nifiga, having read the nonsense on this score in the "auto-authoritative sources", which are actually the yellow press?
                4. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 5 July 2020 18: 41
                  +2
                  Give an example of a cartridge for infantry weapons in service with the Russian army. And then we discuss.
                5. Samson S.
                  Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 52
                  -10 qualifying.
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  And then we discuss.

                  You will discuss with the boys in the sandbox.
                  They will just match you.
                6. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 5 July 2020 18: 55
                  +4
                  Self-education works wonders. You answered correctly. They just forgot about the weapon. Which fits perfectly into the concept of the infantry. Now name the weapons of other countries in service, widely used and consistent with the name "infantry".
                7. Samson S.
                  Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 58
                  -6
                  Come on, come on.
                  Goodbye.
                8. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 5 July 2020 19: 01
                  +5
                  ABOUT!!! You still remembered how I, in the previous discussions, dipped you into the faience of the face of the face. My friend you are a terrific windbag. You can even say a comedian.
                9. Samson S.
                  Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 24
                  -5
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  My friend you are a terrific windbag. You can even say a comedian.

                  Come on, come on.
                  Goodbye.
                10. Simargl
                  Simargl 6 July 2020 08: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Samson S.
                  Come on, come on.
                  Goodbye.
                  Merged?
                  The destiny of the hollow-bellied amateur-coward is to merge as soon as necessary to answer for your words with reason.
              3. bk0010
                bk0010 5 July 2020 22: 10
                +2
                Awesome! You managed to stop Carbine flood! This draws on the feat of Hercules.
              4. garri-lin
                garri-lin 5 July 2020 22: 17
                +1
                This is the third attempt. There are still berries in the buttocks. Just do it troll cool. About how a pug is angry.
    2. ssergey1978
      ssergey1978 5 July 2020 18: 54
      +5
      if sclerosis does not fail me, he claimed that 5.45 is an assault cartridge, and 5.56 an infantry. When asked to explain how he distributed them, he called everyone stupid, and introduced himself to the rank of expert.
    3. Samson S.
      Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 00
      -5
      Quote: ssergey1978
      When asked to explain how he distributed them, he called everyone stupid, and introduced himself to the rank of expert.

      So you don’t understand the difference.
      And the educational program, I already wrote about this, this is not my forte.
      You do not know, self-educate.
      Or ASK you to explain. And not ham, like cattle.
    4. ssergey1978
      ssergey1978 5 July 2020 19: 11
      +3
      "You, bydlan" - how do you communicate, sir? Ugh on you.
  13. garri-lin
    garri-lin 5 July 2020 19: 04
    +3
    So he explained. There are bullets of different actions. Only what specific bullet does he have in mind, out of many of each, he forgot to indicate. Or didn’t know.
  14. ssergey1978
    ssergey1978 5 July 2020 19: 10
    +2
    Exactly, I forgot. Do you think he knows that the M193 and S109 have different bullets?
  15. Samson S.
    Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 19
    -3
    Quote: ssergey1978
    S109 different bullets?

    The cartridge is called SS109. You don’t even know that.
  16. ssergey1978
    ssergey1978 5 July 2020 19: 20
    +1
    [iThis is called the cartridge.
  17. Samson S.
    Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 23
    -2
    Well, yes a cartridge.
  18. ssergey1978
    ssergey1978 5 July 2020 19: 21
    +1
    Well, at least I escaped to Wikipedia. you look and will cease to bear the achenia
  19. garri-lin
    garri-lin 5 July 2020 19: 40
    +1
    Yes, he half does not know what he is discussing.
  20. Samson S.
    Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 22
    -5
    Quote: garri-lin
    he forgot to indicate.

    So think now, puzzle over.
    And I always said that you have to be polite. Especially with strangers.
    And you can be rude to ssergey1978.
    He doesn’t know anyway and there’s no benefit from him.
    And now, it's late. I won’t write you, the train left.
  21. ssergey1978
    ssergey1978 5 July 2020 19: 25
    +2
    I'm embarrassed to ask where I got nasty? Why am I useless? And why "now the train is gone"
  22. Samson S.
    Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 32
    -4
    Quote: ssergey1978
    Again, orderlies do not catch mice

    Quote: ssergey1978
    Ugh on you.

    Quote: ssergey1978
    you look and will cease to bear the achenia

    Is that enough?
  23. ssergey1978
    ssergey1978 5 July 2020 19: 39
    +1
    Virtually spat on you because you poked me.
    About the orderlies, sorry, of course, but really a feeling of your inappropriateness.
    About nonsense, well, you carry it is a fact.
  24. Samson S.
    Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 50
    -6
    Quote: ssergey1978
    because you poked me

    Because you are a boy yet. B. 1978
    Quote: ssergey1978
    but really a feeling of your inappropriateness.

    This is from ignorance of the subject. If only they knew a little, such a sensation would not exist.
    And so, you are just a victim of propaganda. Like the vast majority of Runet.
    Quote: ssergey1978
    Well, you carry it is a fact.

    I have no such habit.
    What for?
    I am well versed in weapons and therefore I can clearly see what is not visible to you. And many others.
    In addition, I do not depend on the stamps of Sovagitprop. And this is very important.
    I recommend you remember one simple thing - a backward country is NOT ABLE to make good weapons. And everything else, including toilet paper, too
    Those. if the country has bad toilet paper, then all other products will be just as bad.
    This, schematically speaking, is called the "technological level of the country".
    And if propaganda tells you that toilet paper in the country is bad, but the tanks in the country are good, then do not believe it. This does not happen. This is just propaganda.
  25. garri-lin
    garri-lin 5 July 2020 19: 45
    0
    You’re writing about what you don’t write for the third time. Touchy today you have the right word. Comments of your own, rarely reasonable, delete. Therefore, the PDA answer, although correct in the concept of your worldview, does not fit. It is a pity that they turned off the right path. What kind of infantry weapons are you armed with at NATO?
  • D16
    D16 5 July 2020 18: 47
    +3
    MG42 died in 1945. He did not leave any heirs. The Germans had a very exotic rifleman. No one in the world had anything like this. And now, no.

    Well, of course. MG3 and MG51 from the Moon arrived and returned to the Moon lol And why is Mauser 98 bad?
    1. Samson S.
      Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 57
      -7
      Quote: D16
      Well, of course. MG3 and MG51 from the Moon arrived and returned to the Moon

      Dear,
      MG42, this is an easel machine gun that could be used on bipods (which was unexpected).
      MG3, this is a single machine gun.
      Those. MG42 and MG3, these are weapons of DIFFERENT CLASS.
      Quote: D16
      And why is Mauser 98 bad?

      Everybody.
      Crap rifle for 2MB times.
      True, the three-ruler was even worse.
      Anfield and Garand were a cut above Mauser. And in two, three-ruler.
  • Simargl
    Simargl 6 July 2020 08: 38
    0
    Quote: Samson S.
    And who needs assault rifles in the army?
    Well yes. Browning, Fedorov, Lewis - loshary.
  • Alexander Drobyshev
    Alexander Drobyshev 5 July 2020 17: 36
    +1
    Garand had a T20 automatic rifle. In 1944, the US Army command even decided to take it into service, but the war ended
    1. Samson S.
      Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 42
      -10 qualifying.
      Ага.
      And after the war they took all weapons, and drowned in the sea. Yes?
      The American automatic rifle was called the BAR. And it was a Browning rifle, not a Garand. Its counterpart in the USSR (constructively rather stupid) was called a "light machine gun" (DP-27).
      BAR is a completely different class. And the fact that in the photo is bullshit. No one in the world, except the USSR (ABC-36, AVT-40), is needed.
      1. Alexander Drobyshev
        Alexander Drobyshev 5 July 2020 18: 57
        0
        The fact that in the photo is exactly the Garand T20 automatic rifle with a BAR store. The US military did not take it into service precisely because of the end of the war, and after the war, after improvements, it became the M-14
        . And unlike its descendant, T20E2 (pictured, pre-production) shot bursts at the same BAR level with less weight. If it does not bother you, then follow this link (https://kalashnikov.media/article/weapons/m14-istoriya-bolezni-amerikanskoy-vintovki-)
        1. Samson S.
          Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 30
          -6
          Quote: Alexander Drobyshev
          and after the war, after improvements, it became the M-14

          M14 rifle semi-automatic.
          T20 rifle selective-fire.
          BAR rifle automatic.
          These are three different classes of weapons. At the same time, the selective-fire weapon class is considered suitable ONLY for assault weapons. For the rest, this class is considered nonsense.
          T20 is the same nonsense.
          Quote: Alexander Drobyshev
          shot bursts at the same BAR level with less weight.

          It does not happen.
          Do you understand?
          Lighter weight, it’s not just that. This is a different class of weapons and a different rate of fire.
          Quote: Alexander Drobyshev
          If it does not bother you, then follow this link

          No, I don’t read any doubtful articles. Eyes shore. And the brain too.
          1. Alexander Drobyshev
            Alexander Drobyshev 5 July 2020 19: 53
            +4
            I read your other "opuses" and realized that I made a mistake, thinking that you are simply mistaken, but you are "too competent in this topic for that" and I do not see the point, as the saying goes, "to throw pearls in front of pigs". And where do people like you just creep into the network? Although you are really funny ...
            1. Samson S.
              Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 57
              -5
              Quote: Alexander Drobyshev
              and I don't see the point, as the saying goes, "to throw pearls in front of pigs."

              Those. you are not a trainee.
              I understood.
              Quote: Alexander Drobyshev
              And where do people like you just crawl into the network from?

              Indeed, this is an area of ​​communication of felt boots.
              Competent people are very rare here.
              Yes, and their knowledge is not needed boots.
              Valenoks know everything best of all. They read it in one smart book.
  • Samson S.
    Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 43
    -9
    Quote: mat-vey
    I didn’t invent, but I got five patents ..

    One. On a promo sample. Short term.
    That term came out many, many years ago. Therefore, anyone can copy AK, this is legal.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 45
      -1
      Quote: Samson S.
      Quote: mat-vey
      I didn’t invent, but I got five patents ..

      One. On a promo sample. Short term.
      That term came out many, many years ago. Therefore, anyone can copy AK, this is legal.

      What kind of "industrial design"? There were patents mainly for triggering mechanisms.
      1. Samson S.
        Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 48
        -8
        Quote: mat-vey
        What kind of "industrial design"? There were patents mainly for triggering mechanisms.

        What other trigger?
        Do not invent.
        Patent for a new product.
        It is given without any inventions, but for a short time.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 50
          +3
          Quote: Samson S.
          What other trigger?

          With you it is becoming less clear.
          1. Samson S.
            Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 54
            -8
            Don’t worry, I know what USM is.
            AK alone did not have and could not have any patents.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 12
              +3
              Quote: Samson S.
              AK alone did not have and could not have any patents.

              Are you claiming this as an archive worker, or as a distributor of myths?
              1. Samson S.
                Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 37
                -8
                Like a pro in the field of small arms. And not only.
              2. mat-vey
                mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 41
                +5
                Quote: Samson S.
                Like a pro in the field of small arms. And not only.

                I say - you're funny.
              3. Samson S.
                Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 46
                -9
                You need not to talk.
                You need to learn how to communicate strongly only on topics that you understand.
                You do not understand the topic of shooting.
                Therefore, on this subject you are better to chew than talk.
              4. mat-vey
                mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 48
                +4
                Quote: Samson S.
                Therefore, on this subject you are better to chew than talk.

                So, will you still name someone from the "Schmeisser group" in Izhevsk? It won't be difficult for such a super specialist?
              5. Samson S.
                Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 51
                -9
                I will not name it.
                I do not want.
              6. mat-vey
                mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 52
                +6
                Quote: Samson S.
                I will not name it.
                I do not want.

                What, praative? Or is it still a distributor of myths?
          2. ssergey1978
            ssergey1978 5 July 2020 18: 13
            +6
            Oh, how you understand it. Stop making people laugh. In shooting and weapon history you are not competent.
          3. Samson S.
            Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 14
            -10 qualifying.
            Quote: ssergey1978
            In shooting and weapon history you are not competent.

            Then good bye. I am not holding you back.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 6 July 2020 08: 51
      0
      Quote: Samson S.
      Like a pro in the field of small arms.
      More like a layman. More precisely - a profanator.
      Quote: Samson S.
      Not only.
      Professor of all kinds of sciences?
  • Samson S.
    Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 42
    -15 qualifying.
    Quote: D16
    Kalashnikov did not invent anything new in AK-47

    AK is not an invention, it is a product, a promo sample.
    An ignoramus cannot create a prototype. And in the USSR, except for the ignorant, no one else was found. For all the years of the USSR, all this mafia could not even make an army self-loading rifle, it could only make a "sniper rifle" (SVD), and this is not the same thing.
    Therefore, the most likely version of the creation of the AK-47 by the Schmeisser group.
    This can be seen by how unsuccessfully in the USSR they tried to make an analogue of M16. Designers do not work like that. Therefore, the analogue of M16 did not work, but it turned out AK-74.
    That freak, where he even up to M16A1. But there will be better AKM.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 46
      +8
      Quote: Samson S.
      Therefore, the most likely version of the creation of the AK-47 by the Schmeisser group.

      The standard question in such cases - name at least someone from the "Schmeisser group"?
      1. Samson S.
        Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 49
        -12 qualifying.
        Quote: mat-vey
        at least someone from the "Schmeisser group" name?

        What for? Who are they interested in?
        There are their photos online in Izhevsk.
        There are signatures, who is there and where.
        Study.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 51
          +7
          Quote: Samson S.
          Quote: mat-vey
          at least someone from the "Schmeisser group" name?

          What for? Who are they interested in?
          There are their photos online in Izhevsk.
          There are signatures, who is there and where.
          Study.

          I studied it, and therefore I ask ... But it seems to you that there is nothing to answer.
          1. Samson S.
            Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 58
            -14 qualifying.
            Quote: mat-vey
            .And you seem to have nothing to answer.

            But why?
            Want to claim that the AK-47 made Kalashnikov?
            Approve.
            What am I?
            I know for sure that in the USSR, the Soviet ignoramuses could not do any AK.
            By the way, AK is an assault rifle. It is generally incomprehensible, he needed the USSR nifig. Only 2 countries used such weapons in the world:
            1. Reich, as a special weapon of panzergrenadiers.
            2. The USSR, as the main weapon of the army. Which was delirium in itself.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 10
              +7
              Quote: Samson S.
              Which was delirium in itself.

              Well, do you not know about nonsense.
              Quote: Samson S.
              I know for sure that in the USSR, the Soviet ignoramuses could not do any AK.
    2. D16
      D16 5 July 2020 16: 49
      +1
      Many Germans worked in the USSR after the war. In my city there is a district called "Uprava" There is also a plant called "NK Engines". They really did a lot both for us and for the Americans, but not in the rifle division.
      1. Samson S.
        Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 54
        -13 qualifying.
        Quote: D16
        They really did a lot for us and for the Americans, but not in the shooter.

        After the war in the USSR, the Germans did EVERYTHING.
        Here, just ALL.
        And first of all, they spent in the USSR NTR.
        The result of which (as well as the German technological and instrumental bases) was the real (and not fake 30s) industrialization of the USSR in the 50s. Which ended in collapse in the 80s.
        What to do, slaves (in the USSR they were called co-citizens) are not capable of creativity and development (without an external factor).
        1. D16
          D16 5 July 2020 17: 18
          +4
          After the war in the USSR, the Germans did EVERYTHING.

          Only the USSR first convinced the local geniuses to work in a foreign land. lol
          What to do, slaves (in the USSR they were called co-citizens) are not capable of creativity and development (without an external factor).

          Nevertheless, the MIG-15 was a copy of the Rolls-Royce Ning engine. Slaves chose a solution that was more suitable at that stage of metallurgy and theory, otherwise they would fuck with axial compressors like the Germans. laughing
          1. Samson S.
            Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 26
            -10 qualifying.
            Quote: D16
            Only the USSR first convinced the local geniuses to work in a foreign land.

            Differently.
            But some worked for conscience, for the idea. Revenge the Americans for the defeat of their beloved Reich.
            They already knew, unlike most fellow citizens, who basically destroyed it.
            Quote: D16
            Nevertheless, the MIG-15 was a copy of the Rolls-Royce Ning engine. Slaves chose a solution that was more suitable at that stage of metallurgy and theory, otherwise they would fuck with UMO like Germans.

            What ready-made samples and drawings were at hand, such and chose.
            In addition, it was precisely in the field of aircraft construction that the Germans had the least influence.
            1. D16
              D16 5 July 2020 17: 46
              11
              Revenge the Americans for the defeat of their beloved Reich.

              And you knowingly wrote that you are funny lol
              What ready-made samples and drawings were at hand, such and chose.

              Finished German engines were at hand. Together with the drawings and the terrible surging smut. That's why they bought Rolls.
              In addition, it was precisely in the field of aircraft construction that the Germans had the least influence.

              And thank God laughing . But the aircraft engine got a good kick in the ass with a German boot. laughing I'm not talking about rocket science.
              1. Samson S.
                Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 50
                -12 qualifying.
                Quote: D16
                And you knowingly wrote that you are funny

                Actually, it’s not me, it’s Dzhugashvili who agreed in Yalta the USSR’s contribution to the TOTAL victory over Germany from 25 to 33%.
                Therefore, all claims to him, not to me. If you suddenly think that you are more in the know than he is.
                Quote: D16
                Finished German engines were at hand. Together with the drawings and the terrible surging smut. That's why they bought Rolls.

                There was a slightly different story.
                Quote: D16
                But the aircraft engine got a good kick in the ass with a German boot.

                And not only it.
                1. D16
                  D16 5 July 2020 17: 56
                  +6
                  There was a slightly different story.

                  The best time to stick a picture of a cat under a lamp lol
                  And not only it.

                  Rocket and Navy. I don’t remember any special beneficiaries anymore laughing
                  .
                  Dzhugashvili agreed in Yalta the USSR’s contribution to the TOTAL victory over Germany from 25 to 33%.

                  The Germans were well aware of who defeated Germany. Other Germans ended up in a different zone of occupation.
                2. Samson S.
                  Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 05
                  -9
                  Quote: D16
                  Rocket and Navy. I don’t remember any special beneficiaries anymore

                  Atomic bomb.
                  Engine building.
                  Shooter.
                  Etc. etc.
          2. Roman_vh
            Roman_vh 5 July 2020 19: 45
            +6
            Well, the orderly will call at last. A man is tormented.
      2. ssergey1978
        ssergey1978 5 July 2020 18: 17
        +7
        Apparently the Germans also made you.
  • Boratsagdiev
    Boratsagdiev 5 July 2020 17: 05
    +5
    Quote: Samson S.
    This is evident by how unsuccessful in the USSR

    the "Schmeisser" design on its "epic" model stopped and was not used anywhere else. And you mean the backwardness of the USSR.
    The "storm" had too many jambs.
    But Kalashnikov did not take the idea from the ceiling and not at once. He worked for many years in the design law firm and even exhibited his samples for the competition.
    In addition, there were many models of experimental automatic weapons of the time and some were similar (including the AK-47).
    1. Samson S.
      Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 13
      -13 qualifying.
      Quote: BoratSagdiev
      And you about the backwardness of the USSR.

      And the USSR could not even bungle the "unsuccessful design of the StG44".
      The maximum that the Soviet forces had was enough for the SVT-40 hunting (for some reason self-loading) rifle and the DP-27 stupid heavy automatic rifle.
      Quote: BoratSagdiev
      He worked for many years in the design law firm

      For many years he worked already when AKM reworked in the AK-74.
      In the days of the AK-47, even the assault weapon (which is actually shit for the army) in the USSR was nobody to do. At all.
      Quote: BoratSagdiev
      even put his samples to the competition

      The fact that he put even modified was banned.
      And then Kalashnikov, like a fakir, pulled an AK-47 from his sleeve. Which for some reason was allowed right into the second round and which won.
      Do you believe in such miracles?
      Me not.
      Quote: BoratSagdiev
      In addition, there were many models of experimental automatic weapons of the time.

      Extremely few. In the world of idiocy type StG44 / AK-47 no more enthusiasts were found. People in small arms understood the world, because.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 27
        +2
        Quote: Samson S.
        And then Kalashnikov, like a fakir, pulled an AK-47 from his sleeve. Which for some reason was allowed right into the second round and which won.

        You can immediately see the connoisseur of history and equipment.
      2. D16
        D16 5 July 2020 18: 11
        +6
        In the world of idiocy type AK-47 no more enthusiasts were found. People in small arms understood the world, because.

        Jews and Belgians are still idiots laughing , I'm not talking about Vietnamese, Indians and other Finns laughing
        1. Samson S.
          Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 13
          -10 qualifying.
          Quote: D16
          Jews and Belgians are still

          They did nothing like the AK-47.
          Quote: D16
          I'm not talking about Vietnamese, Indians and other Finns laughing

          These could do anything. They are permissible.
    2. D16
      D16 5 July 2020 17: 23
      0
      the "Schmeisser" design on its "epic" model stopped and was not used anywhere else.

      The idea of ​​putting a war spring in the butt was very tenacious laughing .
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 5 July 2020 15: 47
    +6
    The myth that the Kalashnikov was copied from the Sturmgever is an absolute myth. Outwardly similar in silhouette. The fillings are very different ... And about self-cleaning weapons - where is the myth from? The problem of the 21st century. Complete absence of RELIABLE sources of information. Because the authors are absolutely NOT RESPONSIBLE for the content of the publications ...
    1. Samson S.
      Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 01
      -13 qualifying.
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Outwardly similar in silhouette.

      And here is the appearance?
      The AK-47 is the second, improved edition of the StG44. Made taking into account the shortcomings of the first product.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 5 July 2020 17: 09
        +5
        Quote: Samson S.
        AK-47, this is the second, improved edition of the StG44

        Not in the least ... There are a lot of very professional analysis of this topic ... Our intermediate cartridge of 43 years is not a copy of the German 7.92x33.
        If we consider as copying the general idea of ​​using an intermediate cartridge and gas exhaust automation - well, then all types of weapons are copies of each other. There are only a few types of automation with an incredible variety of implementations ...
        1. Samson S.
          Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 19
          -14 qualifying.
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          There are a lot of very professional analysis of this topic ...

          This will leave psychiatrists.
          The opinion of network chimes is not interesting to me.
          I am too competent for this topic.
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          Our intermediate cartridge 43 years

          And leave this to psychiatrists too. The fact that some work began in 1943 does not mean that it is still the same cartridge as it was in 1943.
          1. Mountain shooter
            Mountain shooter 5 July 2020 17: 26
            +7
            Quote: Samson S.
            The opinion of network chimes is not interesting to me.
            I'm too competent for this topic

            I must say that they are absolutely incompetent in this topic. Let's see how in others ...
            1. Samson S.
              Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 28
              -10 qualifying.
              Quote: Mountain Shooter
              I must say that they are absolutely incompetent in this topic.

              It’s too early for you to state anything in this topic. Porridge has eaten little on this subject.
        2. mat-vey
          mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 29
          +2
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          Quote: Samson S.
          AK-47, this is the second, improved edition of the StG44

          Not in the least ... There are a lot of very professional analysis of this topic ... Our intermediate cartridge of 43 years is not a copy of the German 7.92x33.
          If we consider as copying the general idea of ​​using an intermediate cartridge and gas exhaust automation - well, then all types of weapons are copies of each other. There are only a few types of automation with an incredible variety of implementations ...

          You still do not understand that this is a vulgar troll?
          1. Mountain shooter
            Mountain shooter 5 July 2020 17: 32
            +4
            Quote: mat-vey
            You still do not understand that this is a vulgar troll?

            Yes, I understood, arrogant and illiterate ...
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 37
              +3
              Quote: Mountain Shooter
              Yes, I understood, arrogant and illiterate ...

              Mentioning DP-27 as a "rifle" reminds one "of a constantly banned character ... it looks like again ..
            2. Samson S.
              Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 44
              -12 qualifying.
              Quote: mat-vey
              You still do not understand that this is a vulgar troll?

              Quote: Mountain Shooter
              Yes, I understood, arrogant and illiterate ...

              Two incompetent felt boots.
              And where do you just crawl into the network from?
    2. Boratsagdiev
      Boratsagdiev 5 July 2020 17: 09
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And about self-cleaning weapons - is this even a myth?

      it could come from one feature of the bolt group work.
      When the bolt moves, it slightly "presses" the cartridge in the magazine (to avoid it getting stuck and delays in feeding), and the bolt itself is massive enough to grind "small debris" inside the box. But not without consequences, of course.
  • rotfuks
    rotfuks 5 July 2020 16: 05
    +4
    All myths of recent years have a country of origin. There was a myth at one time that Ukraine feeds the entire USSR. So what? For many years now there is no USSR and no one swells from hunger, and even bread from Russia is exported. But in Kiev shops now there is no fat and sausage. Rather, there is lard, but it is either Polish or German. So the myth that the Kalashnikov was copied from the Sturmgever is from the same series that the Ukrainians invented the helicopter and dug the Black Sea. Recently, Ukraine has become a forge of myths.
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein 5 July 2020 16: 10
    +6
    “To put it simply, the AK is by no means a direct copy of the German weaponry. It is a myth that the AK-47 is just a Soviet version of the StG44. However, the same myth as suggesting that the self-taught Kalashnikov designed the AK -47 yourself. "
    Before the AK-47, MT Kalashnikov also had a submachine gun that was not adopted for service. It differs from the Kalashnikov assault rifle. The barrel is shorter, there is no external gas outlet pipe, there is no wooden forend under it, the butt is metal folding. That is, by the time the AK-1992 MT was created, Kalashnikov was no longer a novice self-taught designer. AK could not be a copy of the stormgower, nor an imitation of him for a simple reason. The barrel bore is locked in a Sturmgever by skewing the bolt, and in AK by turning the bolt. The number of parts in a Sturmgever is many times greater. And according to the laws of mechanics, every detail is a possibility of breakage or failure. Consequently, the stormgower is less reliable than AK.MT Kalashnikov worked in Izhevsk, and Shmeiser in Kovrov. But Sudaev worked with Schmeiser at one time. He had a submachine gun similar in principle to a stormgower. But Sudaev died and this option was not fully completed. Degtyarev, Shpagin, Simonov, Tokarev were also self-taught. But all of them (including MT Kalashnikov) were talented.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 33
      +1
      Quote: Boris Epstein
      But at one time, Sudaev worked with Schmeiser.

      In what sense did he “work with Schmeisser?” If personally, then not at all - he died before Schmeisser's arrival in the USSR, if Walter was the impetus for the idea of ​​an assault rifle.
      1. boris epstein
        boris epstein 5 July 2020 16: 37
        -1
        Not with the constructor, but with the stormtrooper. I watched the dock movie. Well, the very last teaching staff at the storm trooper.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 43
          +1
          The impetus for the final decision on the development of an intermediate cartridge and on its basis a complex of small arms - a carbine, an automatic rifle, a machine gun was the MKb-1942 (W) captured in 42. And the AC-44, as the name implies, appeared in 1944, like the StG . The truth, unlike the latter, is not in service, but as an experimental batch.
          1. boris epstein
            boris epstein 5 July 2020 17: 13
            +2
            In fact, work on intermediate cartridges of 6,35 mm, 6,5 mm and 7,62 mm caliber was completed by Soviet designers back in 1939. But they were not accepted into service. In particular, Elizarov and Semin created the cartridge 7,62x39. But it was adopted only in 1943. Again from the same book.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 17
              +1
              Quote: Boris Epstein
              In fact, work on intermediate cartridges of 6,35 mm, 6,5 mm and 7,62 mm caliber was completed by Soviet designers back in 1939.

              Well, that's what we are talking about - the military and the country's leadership doubted. The expenses are not just small - they are huge and is there any point in them. After that, those tasks were given for the "intermediate" cartridge, as a result of which the 7,62x41 which later became 7,62x39.
              1. boris epstein
                boris epstein 5 July 2020 17: 34
                +2
                Actually, my argument with mat-vey is about priority. But the caliber of German weapons is 7,92 mm. Accordingly, the cartridge for the Sturmgever is 7,92x33, and the Soviet cartridge is 7,62x39. He writes: "The impetus for making the final decision on the development of an intermediate cartridge and, on its basis, a complex of small arms - a carbine, an assault rifle, a machine gun was the MKb-1942 (W) captured in 42". No. Soviet designers worked on the 7,62x39 cartridge independently of the German ones. And MT Kalashnikov designed the AK-47 for the Soviet cartridge 7,62x39.
    2. beeper
      beeper 5 July 2020 17: 15
      +4
      hi If it comes to that, disputes about "scholarship", about the diploma of an engineer or technician, then Hugo Schmeisser, after all, was also a "golim" self-taught (his father and his brother, Louis Schmeisser, a famous German weapons designer, attached and trained in arms business), since he had no official technical education (that is, he was " uneducated"?!)! request
      I don't know how quasi "genius" Hugo is, but Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov persistently engaged in self-education And by his example, his stories and advice on TV, radio and interviews in our Soviet print media, he probably "infected" not only me, but also many Soviet boys with the dream of becoming a weapons designer, a mechanical engineer! yes
      I still remember the words of MTK that on his desktop there are always technical manuals on heat treatment, design, machining and stamping technology, machine parts, textbooks on plumbing, turning, milling, .... and others, to which he constantly appeals in his daily design work!
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 7 July 2020 14: 24
      +1
      Quote: Boris Epstein
      That is, by the time the AK-47 MT was created, Kalashnikov was no longer a beginner self-taught designer.

      MTK had a huge advantage - a place of work. For at NIPSVO there were test results of almost the entire existing shooting of the world, plus the personal impressions of the people who shot it. That is, by choosing one or another node it was possible to see how its analogues behaved in real conditions.
      In addition, a thorough knowledge of the weapons test methodology at the training ground was healthy in terms of design priorities - what you need to pay special attention to and what to neglect.
  • novice
    novice 5 July 2020 16: 24
    +1
    Self-cleaning? As soon as you shot, you should clean it at the first opportunity! And from time to time just for prevention! This, in general, applies to any such weapon. But reliability and unpretentiousness is certainly not a myth.
  • D16
    D16 5 July 2020 16: 33
    0
    Quote: mat-vey
    Quote: D16
    It means "invented". And then it was "invented" by the Belgians and Jews.

    So what’s criminal on their part?
    And you don’t hint at the Jews in the case of the Jews? So no one there hides that it’s a so-called kosher AK.

    Not. The same shutter in their new bullpup. I don’t remember how his father was.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 48
      +3
      Well, with M.T. Kalashnikov, the shutter had already matured somewhere in 1943.
      1. Samson S.
        Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 03
        -9
        Quote: mat-vey
        Well, with M.T. Kalashnikov, the shutter had already matured somewhere in 1943.

        A boil on the ass can ripen.
        And for an uneducated and illiterate guy, no shutter can ever ripen anywhere.
        And if suddenly ripens, it will not work.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 04
          +3
          Quote: Samson S.
          Quote: mat-vey
          Well, with M.T. Kalashnikov, the shutter had already matured somewhere in 1943.

          A boil on the ass can ripen.
          And for an uneducated and illiterate guy, no shutter can ever ripen anywhere.
          And if suddenly ripens, it will not work.

          And you are funny.
  • Samson S.
    Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 33
    -11 qualifying.
    National Interest "debunking the myth of the self-cleaning AK-47"

    Is your favorite Soviet shooting stick not magic?
    Can not be.
    Or maybe?
    Maybe it was not in vain that in the years 70-80 AKM received an accelerating kick in the ass from the Soviet military and was expelled from the Soviet army? And his stocks were distributed (shipped in debt) to the natives of the whole world, who have no problems with fertility. Then
    One of the most popular assault rifles in the world - of course, the Kalashnikov assault rifle.

    After all, colossal Soviet stocks of cartridges of 7.62x39 mm were attached to the AKM.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 5 July 2020 16: 49
      +3
      Quote: Samson S.
      Maybe it was not in vain that in the years 70-80 AKM received an accelerating kick in the ass from the Soviet military and was expelled from the Soviet army?

      Maybe not in vain - after all, the AK-74 was adopted for service.
      1. Samson S.
        Samson S. 5 July 2020 16: 59
        -9
        Quote: mat-vey
        Maybe not in vain - after all, the AK-74 was adopted for service.

        Any nail has a cost and cost.
        Giving away colossal state funds to all kinds of "friends" is negligence. Pure criminality.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 08
          +4
          Quote: Samson S.
          Quote: mat-vey
          Maybe not in vain - after all, the AK-74 was adopted for service.

          Any nail has a cost and cost.
          Giving away colossal state funds to all kinds of "friends" is negligence. Pure criminality.

          Have you decided to change the topic? Switch from a Kalashnikov assault rifle to international politics?
          1. Samson S.
            Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 14
            -11 qualifying.
            No, I just wanted to make it clear at what cost to poor citizens of the USSR what
            One of the most popular assault rifles in the world - of course, the Kalashnikov assault rifle.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 5 July 2020 17: 19
              +5
              How caring you are however.
        2. D16
          D16 5 July 2020 17: 28
          +2
          Giving away colossal state funds to all kinds of "friends" is negligence. Pure criminality.

          Maybe you just do not quite understand the logic of the actions of our grandfathers and fathers. But this does not mean that she was not.
          1. Samson S.
            Samson S. 5 July 2020 17: 30
            -8
            Quote: D16
            Maybe you just do not quite understand the logic of the actions of our grandfathers and fathers. But this does not mean that she was not.

            Конечно.
            Staying all the way with your bare ass is hurt by attractive logic. The whole world only did that the USSR was drawn to the poor. Striving to become as poor as he is.
            1. D16
              D16 5 July 2020 18: 35
              +5
              Staying all the way with your bare ass is hurt by attractive logic.

              Well, maybe you were naked, but I certainly wasn’t laughing Moreover, I was perfectly taught and moderately treated for free.
              The whole world only did that the USSR was drawn to the poor.

              Not all. Grandfathers were well aware that money did not go north. They are cold here. Therefore, they tried to stake out the territory in the south under the production base.
              Striving to become as poor as he is.

              Is that a mantra?
              1. Samson S.
                Samson S. 5 July 2020 18: 47
                -9
                Quote: D16
                and I certainly wasn’t

                Were
                All fellow citizens were beggars. Only they did not know about it. They were blown into their ears that everything around them belonged to them. Only when you took such "your" yourself, they immediately put you in jail.
                Quote: D16
                Moreover, I was perfectly taught and moderately treated for free.

                How was treated in the USSR I do not need to tell.
                No need to tell me what they treated.
                And what kind of "specialists" sometimes treated.
                A shame.
                In developed countries, dogs are better treated.
                But the USSR was not a developed country.
                He was not even a third world country like the Russian Federation today. The USSR was a country of the FOURTH world. The country of the loser.
                Quote: D16
                Therefore, they tried to stake out the territory in the south under the production base.

                The production base of the territories does not grow.
                It grows with the creativity of the masses. Or capturing someone else's (by force).
                Slaves are not capable of creativity; this is a confirmed historical fact. And the USSR was able to capture someone else's and valuable only once, in 1945.
                So the USSR would have collapsed by the mid-end of the 50s. But it was precisely the participation of the USSR in the victory in WWII that prolonged his agony until 2.
                At the same time, slaves do not live richly. It does not and cannot be.
                Quote: D16
                Is that a mantra?

                No, this is a historical fact, confirmed by numbers.
                Purely mathematics.
                1. D16
                  D16 5 July 2020 19: 06
                  +4
                  Were

                  I had enough. And this is the main indicator.
                  No need to tell me what they treated.

                  Me too. The Soviet doctor was supposed to return the patient to work in the shortest period of time, and not make him his life-long client. laughing
                  The production base of the territories does not grow.

                  Territories grow over time with a production base.
                  Slaves are not capable of creativity; this is a confirmed historical fact.

                  Slavery as such in Soviet times took place in all Chechnya-Turkmenistan, but this was extremely rare and absolutely illegal.
                  No, this is a historical fact, confirmed by numbers.
                  Purely mathematics.

                  This is some kind of personal story of yours that has nothing to do with the history of the vast majority that caused that period.
                  1. Samson S.
                    Samson S. 5 July 2020 19: 17
                    -6
                    Quote: D16
                    I had enough. And this is the main indicator.

                    Key indicators are usually not accepted by you. And not me. And world institutions.
                    Quote: D16
                    The Soviet doctor was supposed to return the patient to work as soon as possible,

                    And no matter how much he lives later.
                    Quote: D16
                    Territories grow over time with a production base.

                    Nonsense.
                    These are not interrelated indicators.
                    There are a bunch of big and poor states (Russia, India, etc.).
                    And there are a bunch of small and rich states.
                    RF 21 is the world economy.
                    And Israel is the 20th economy of the world.
                    Tell me the difference in size?
                    Quote: D16
                    Slavery as such in Soviet times took place in all Chechnya-Turkmenistan, but this was extremely rare and absolutely illegal.

                    ALL Soviet citizens (except first Dzhugashvili alone, and then the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee) were slaves and absolutely "legal" from the point of view of Soviet laws.
                    You just have a poor idea of ​​what a slave is. And instead of slaves you imagine prisoners.
                    Quote: D16
                    having nothing to do with the history of the vast majority that caused that period.

                    This is because they are mostly uneducated boots.
                    And they have no idea about the world.
                    In the USSR, in fact, there was practically no education either. And they didn’t teach anything but “the right things”. Therefore, the USSR was a country of total incompetence. And these people have not gone anywhere.
                    1. D16
                      D16 5 July 2020 19: 54
                      +3
                      And world institutions.

                      Yeah. And also by British scientists lol
                      And no matter how much he lives later.

                      People lived to old age and I do not remember the cases that someone would give up due to a medical error. I will not say that this was not, but I did not see.
                      RF 21 is the world economy.
                      And Israel is the 20th economy of the world.
                      Tell me the difference in size?

                      It depends on how and what to consider. laughing .
                      In the USSR, after all, education was practically never given.

                      So, uneducated and sent into space the first uneducated astronaut lol
                      1. Samson S.
                        Samson S. 5 July 2020 20: 04
                        -5
                        Quote: D16
                        People lived to old age

                        You at least read what was the life expectancy in the USSR.
                        And then read about African countries.
                        And compare.
                        Quote: D16
                        It depends on how and what to consider.

                        It’s clearly written there,
                        RF 21 is the world economy.
                        And Israel is the 20th economy of the world.

                        What is not clear?
                        Consider economic power.
                        Quote: D16
                        So, uneducated and sent into space the first uneducated astronaut

                        Yeah. On German, actually a rocket. As a talking bioload.
                        And then what kind of achievement is this gigantic?
                        North Korea is also a cosmic power. And atomic yet.
                        And is it really developed?
                        And for a snack, about Gagarin’s flight, everything is very muddy and incomprehensible. It’s better not to touch this topic. It is possible that this is a fake. At least about the method of landing him on a lie, he was caught quickly enough.
                      2. D16
                        D16 5 July 2020 20: 22
                        +2
                        You at least read what was the life expectancy in the USSR.
                        And then read about African countries.
                        And compare.

                        So tear off the covers and give the link laughing
                        It is clearly written there

                        Where and by whom is it written and counted? Based on what is calculated? GDP? Very objective indicator. How much does appendicitis removal cost in the USA and in Russia? The result is the same, but the contribution to the country's GDP is completely different.laughing
                        On German, actually a rocket.

                        I'll try to guess. At the FAU-2?
                        North Korea is also a cosmic power. And atomic yet.
                        And is it really developed?

                        What level of development do you compare?
                        It is possible that this is a fake.

                        Modifications of the Union still fly and drove amers to the ISS until recently. But the brainchild of von Braun with his flights to the moon raises a lot of questions.
                      3. Samson S.
                        Samson S. 5 July 2020 20: 33
                        -4
                        Quote: D16
                        So tear the covers and give the link

                        Full of info in RuNet. Do not be lazy, look.
                        Quote: D16
                        Based on what is calculated? GDP?

                        What else is GDP? Who needs it?
                        It is written, economic power. NFA
                        Quote: D16
                        At the FAU-2?

                        Almost guessed. On its development.
                        Quote: D16
                        What level of development do you compare?

                        According to the only true and objective, in terms of the wealth of the population.
                        Quote: D16
                        But the brainchild of von Braun with his flights to the moon raises a lot of questions.

                        To which there are answers. And there are questions only in RuNet.
                        But Gagarin, according to the USSR, did not fly on the Union. And about the landing method, he really was telling a lie (at first).
                        Why couldn't he lie about more?
                        At least the world, after it was caught lying about the landing, came to this conclusion.
                        Although, personally, I believe in Gagarin's flight. But this "belief" does not change anything.
                      4. D16
                        D16 5 July 2020 21: 08
                        +1
                        Full of info in RuNet. Do not be lazy, look.

                        You affirm and prove to you. Judging by the answer, there is no evidence.
                        Almost guessed. On its development.

                        What is common between the seven and the FAU-2?
                        NFA

                        National Futures Association? lol
                        At least the world, after it was caught lying about the landing, came to this conclusion.

                        You definitely live in some other world.
                        But Gagarin, according to the USSR, did not fly on the Union.

                        P-7 could be called as you like. And the East, and the Sunrise, and the Union. From this she did not cease to be a seven.
                        Although, personally, I believe in Gagarin’s flight.

                        Well, at least so laughing .
                        To which there are answers.

                        Come on. Wasn't Von Braun a "trophy" Nazi as the engine of the American space program?
                      5. Samson S.
                        Samson S. 5 July 2020 21: 19
                        -3
                        Quote: D16
                        What is common between the seven and the FAU-2, except for the rocket engine?

                        Constructors.
                        Quote: D16
                        National Futures Association?

                        Yeah. Futures.
                        Net financial assets.
                        Quote: D16
                        You definitely live in some other world.

                        Well no. That you are stuck in a scoop.
                        Quote: D16
                        P-7 could be called as you like.

                        And Helmut Gröttrup and comrades can also be passed off as Queen and Glushko.
                        The first truly Soviet rocket was made in the 60s by Yangel. This is really the designer of rocketry. Without any discounts.
                        Quote: D16
                        Wasn't Von Braun a "trophy" Nazi as the engine of the American space program?

                        And did someone somehow hide his activity?
                      6. D16
                        D16 5 July 2020 21: 43
                        +1
                        Helmut Gröttrup and comrades can also be passed off as Queen and Glushko.

                        The nonsense is cruel. He was sent home at 53m. Then there was not even a conceptual design of the seven.
                        And did someone somehow hide his activity?

                        No, but the former Nazi at the head of the US space industry is not comme il faut. In the Union, a group of his deputy did not shoot a project. laughing
                        Well no. That you are stuck in a scoop.

                        I would be happy to be stuck there, but where do you get from the world of profit and cleanliness laughing
                      7. The comment was deleted.
  • K-50
    K-50 5 July 2020 17: 13
    +2
    National Interest "debunking the myth of the self-cleaning AK-47"

    The myth itself will be created, then bravuraly debunked.
    Just like the mythbusters from the TV show! fellow lol
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 5 July 2020 17: 14
    +4
    For me, this myth my foreman dispelled in 1978. laughing
  • VyacheSeymour
    VyacheSeymour 5 July 2020 17: 34
    +1
    At school, I studied, assembled, disassembled, assault rifles, even managed to shoot three rounds of ammunition ...- and these were PPSh (did not shoot) and AK with AKM ...
    In training in the 86th he began his service with AK - continued and ended with AKM ...
    The troops rattled with AK-74. After the service I was tested again with AKM.
    And here's what’s interesting: - AB AK-47 FOR THE FIRST TIME HEARED ONLY ONLY IN VIDEO SALES, - WHERE ALL AKA-47 WERE ARRANGED IN THE FIGHTERS!
    I naively thought that these were all Chinese Kalalash ... But now the time has come for "tyrneta" and ... - even in the POST-UNION Thanks to the sofas, AK47e appeared, firmly rooted ... in relation to all 7.62 ... But in principle, why be surprised then: - everywhere speakers, managers, producers, ... ??? Even such relatives are not ... called gays ...
  • Sergo go
    Sergo go 5 July 2020 19: 35
    0
    its uniqueness is proved by time and relevance, everything else is demagogy
  • Alex_You
    Alex_You 5 July 2020 22: 00
    +1
    So what is the article about? What can’t you just transfer and fill everything with NI here?
  • SASHA OLD
    SASHA OLD 5 July 2020 22: 01
    +1
    He himself narrated myths, took them for an "enemy" and began to fight it himself)))
    Fabulous d .... b ...
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 5 July 2020 22: 13
    0
    When I hear "Ak-47" then I have a permanent facepalm))
    1. Alex koch
      Alex koch 6 July 2020 13: 33
      +1
      In vain you are, by the way, the MTK itself persistently called the AK-47 assault rifle
  • Kapkan
    Kapkan 6 July 2020 07: 46
    0
    Quote: Samson S.

    It’s too early for you to state anything in this topic. Porridge has eaten little on this subject.

    Wash your face
  • paco.soto
    paco.soto 6 July 2020 19: 43
    0
    Wiping my beard a stingy tear: I read the forum diagonally - "about" "" "" shkolota. Nobody brought in nostalgia of tricks with cleaning with the temporary absence of everything, etc. etc.
    Even no one remembered about sprinkling gunpowder from a cartridge, for hunting so as not to die of hunger in Afghanistan b "" "b trolls!
    Smile
  • Simargl
    Simargl 6 July 2020 20: 58
    0
    By the way! A photo is a screenshot from a video from Feel the Guns GUNSROOM

  • Maximilian37
    Maximilian37 7 July 2020 01: 58
    0
    What am I reading now? Some flaws, some kind of under-journalist !. Did the author want to say something? Rave.