Military Review

Anti-tank capabilities of the Soviet self-propelled artillery systems SU-152 and ISU-152

73

In the memoirs and technical literature on the Great Patriotic War, quite often high assessments are given of the anti-tank capabilities of the Soviet self-propelled artillery systems SU-152 and ISU-152. At the same time, the authors, who extol the high damaging effect of a 152-mm projectile when exposed to enemy armored vehicles, completely forget about the other characteristics of the large-caliber guns, as well as what heavy self-propelled guns were designed for.


After a failure with a heavy assault a tank KV-2, which was actually a self-propelled gun with a 152-mm howitzer mounted in a rotating turret, in conditions when our troops fought heavy defensive battles, there was no special need for heavy self-propelled guns. In connection with the seizure of the strategic initiative, in the conditions of offensive military operations, the armored units of the Red Army needed qualitatively new models of equipment. Taking into account the existing experience of operating the SU-76M and SU-122, the question arose of creating assault self-propelled gun mounts armed with large-caliber guns. Such self-propelled guns were primarily intended for the destruction of capital fortifications during the breakthrough of a well-prepared enemy defense. During the planning of the offensive operations of 1943, it was expected that Soviet troops would have to break into a long-term deeply echeloned defense with concrete pillboxes. Under these conditions, the need arose for heavy self-propelled guns with weapons similar to the KV-2. However, by that time, the production of 152 mm M-10 howitzers had been discontinued, and the KV-2 itself, which had not worked very well, were practically all lost in battle. After comprehending the experience of operating self-propelled gun mounts, the designers came to understand that from the point of view of obtaining optimal weight and size characteristics, placing a large-caliber gun in an armored cabin is more optimal than in a rotating turret. The abandonment of the tower allowed to increase the volume of the fighting compartment, reduce weight and reduce the cost of the car.

SU-152 heavy self-propelled artillery mount


At the end of January 1943, the construction of the first prototype of the SU-152 heavy self-propelled guns was completed at the Chelyabinsk Kirov Plant (ChKZ), armed with the 152-mm ML-20S gun - a tank modification of the highly successful 152-mm howitzer gun mod. 1937 (ML-20). The gun had a horizontal firing sector of 12 ° and elevation angles from −5 to + 18 °. The ammunition included 20 rounds of separate shell loading. During the tests for rate of fire when using first-stage piling, a result of 2,8 rds / min was achieved. But the real combat rate did not exceed 1-1,5 rds / min. The firing range using the telescopic sight ST-10 on visually observable targets reached 3,8 km. On the machines of the first batch, the T-9 (TOD-9) sight was used, originally developed for the KV-2 heavy tank. For firing from closed positions there was a panoramic PG-1 sight with a panorama of Hertz. The maximum firing range is 6,2 km. Theoretically, it was possible to fire at a long range, but shooting from closed positions for a number of reasons, which will be discussed below, self-propelled guns were rarely practiced.


One of the first SU-152

The base for the new self-propelled gun was the KV-1s tank. The layout of the self-propelled guns was the same as that of most Soviet self-propelled guns of that time. The fully armored hull was divided into two parts. The crew, guns and ammunition were located in front in the armored cabin, which combined the fighting compartment and the control compartment. The engine and transmission were located in the stern of the car. Three crew members were to the left of the gun: in front of the driver, then the gunner and the rear loader, and the other two, the commander of the car and the castle, on the right. One fuel tank was located in the engine compartment, and the other two in the combat, that is, in the inhabited space of the car.

In terms of protection, the SU-152 almost corresponded to the KV-1s tank. The thickness of the frontal armor of the cabin was 75 mm, the forehead of the hull was 60 mm, the sides of the hull and the hull were 60 mm. The combat weight is 45,5 tons. The V-2K diesel engine with an operational power of 500 hp clocked the self-propelled gun on the highway to 43 km / h, the speed on the march along a dirt road did not exceed 25 km / h. Cruising on the highway - up to 330 km.

Anti-tank capabilities of the Soviet self-propelled artillery systems SU-152 and ISU-152

In February 1943, military representatives accepted the first batch of 15 vehicles. February 14, 1943, simultaneously with the adoption of the SU-152, issued a decree GKO No. 2889 "On the formation of heavy self-propelled artillery regiments of the RGK." The document provided for the formation of 16 heavy self-propelled artillery regiments (TSAP). Initially, the TSAP had 6 batteries, two units each. Subsequently, based on the experience of military operations, the organizational and staffing structure of the TSAP was revised towards unification with the states of regiments armed with SU-76M and SU-85. According to the new staffing table, the TSAP became 4 batteries with three self-propelled guns each, the number of personnel of the regiment was reduced from 310 to 234 people, and the “command" KV-1s tank and the armored car BA-64 were introduced into the control platoon.

The combat activity of the TSAP was originally planned by analogy with artillery regiments armed with 152 mm ML-20 howitzers. However, in practice, the SU-152 gunners most often shot at visually observable targets, in this case, advanced artillery observers and reconnaissance spotters in the TSAP were not much sought after. Self-propelled guns usually supported the advancing tanks with fire, moving behind them at a distance of 600-800 m, firing direct fire at enemy fortifications, destroying defense units, or acting as an anti-tank reserve. Thus, the tactics of TSAP actions differed little from the tactics of tank units and SAPs with SU-76M and SU-85.

Some TSAP on the SU-152 retained the old staff, while others were transferred to a new one, remaining with the previous material part. Due to the lack of SU-152, there were cases when the TSAPs were equipped with other machines, for example, reconditioned KV-1s or new KV-85. And vice versa, when the SU-152 entered the heavy tank regiments instead of the tanks lost in battle or having gone to repair tanks. So in the Red Army appeared separate heavy tank regiments, and subsequently this practice took place until the end of the war. At the final stage of the war in the TSAP, formed in 1943-1944, in parallel with the SU-152, ISU-122 and ISU-152 could be operated.

Despite the fact that the first 152 mm installations were delivered back in February 1943, they began to enter the troops only in April. A lot of time was spent on eliminating manufacturing defects and "children's sores." In addition, according to the results of the first combat use of the SU-152 at the front, it turned out that when firing inside the fighting compartment, a large amount of powder gases accumulated, which led to a loss of crew performance. This became known not only at the GABTU, but also at the highest level. The question of solving this problem on September 8, 1943, during the demonstration in the Kremlin of new types of armored vehicles, was personally raised by Stalin. In accordance with his decree, two fans began to be installed on the roof of the fighting compartment of the SU-152.

Claims for visibility from the fighting compartment came from the army. Periscope instruments had large areas of unobservable space, which often became the cause of machine losses. Many complaints were regarding the small ammunition. In units, the ammunition was increased to 25 rounds by placing an additional 5 rounds under the gun. These shells and charges lay on the floor, secured by wooden makeshift blocks. Loading the new ammunition was laborious and physically difficult operation, which took more than 30 minutes. The presence of a fuel tank inside the fighting compartment in the event of penetration of armor by an enemy shell often became the cause of the death of the entire crew.

However, of the first three Soviet self-propelled assault launchers launched into serial production after the outbreak of war, this vehicle turned out to be the most successful. The SU-152, in contrast to the SU-76, did not have obvious defects associated with the general design of the motor-transmission group. In addition, the fighting compartment of a self-propelled gun built on the chassis of the KV-1s heavy tank was more spacious than on the SU-122. The design of the combat vehicle itself, equipped with a very powerful 152-mm gun, turned out to be quite successful.

As far as we know, the combat debut of the SU-152 took place on Kursk, where there were two TSAP. During the period from July 8 to July 18, the 1541st TSAP reported on 7 destroyed Tigers, 39 medium tanks and 11 enemy self-propelled guns. In turn, the 1529th TSAP on July 8 destroyed and knocked out 4 tanks (including 2 Tigers), as well as 7 self-propelled guns. During the battle on the Kursk Bulge, self-propelled guns, moving behind the tanks, provided fire support to them and fired from closed fire positions. For firing at the enemy, only high-explosive shells were used, armor-piercing 152 mm shells in the ammunition at that time were not available. Due to the fact that there were few direct collisions with German tanks, the losses of self-propelled guns were relatively small. However, it should be understood that the frontal armor of the SU-152 by the middle of 1943 no longer provided adequate protection and could have been pierced by the long-barreled gun of the modernized “four” from 1000 m. Some sources say that the Germans were able to study in sufficient detail the damaged SU-152 in the summer of 1943 .


In reports on the results of hostilities among armored vehicles destroyed by the crew of the SU-152, heavy tanks “Tiger” and tank destroyer “Ferdinand” are repeatedly mentioned. Among our soldiers, self-propelled guns SU-152 earned the proud name "St. John's Wort". Due to the fact that only 24 heavy self-propelled guns occasionally participated in the battle, they did not have a special effect on the course of hostilities. But at the same time, it should be recognized that the SU-152 in the summer of 1943 was the only Soviet self-propelled gun capable of confidently hitting heavy German tanks and self-propelled guns at all battle ranges. At the same time, one must understand that the enemy’s losses in reports on combat activities are often greatly exaggerated. If you believe all the reports received from the army, then our tankers and gunners destroyed the "Tigers" and "Ferdinands" several times more than they were built. In most cases, this did not happen because someone wanted to ascribe to themselves non-existent merits, but because of the difficulty of identifying enemy armored vehicles on the battlefield.


German medium tank Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.J

German medium tanks Pz.KpfW.IV of late modifications, equipped with long-barreled guns and anti-cumulative screens hung on board the hull and turret, unrecognizable changed their shape and became like a heavy "Tiger". Since the summer of 1943, all German self-propelled guns with a rear-mounted fighting compartment were called "Ferdinands" in the Red Army. It should also be taken into account that the enemy had a very good service for evacuating damaged tanks from the battlefield. Quite often, the "Tigers" "destroyed" in Soviet reports were successfully restored in the field tank repair shops and again went into battle.


SU-152 late release

Serial production of the SU-152 lasted until January 1944. In total, 670 self-propelled guns of this type were delivered. The SU-152 was most actively used at the front between the autumn of 1943 and the summer of 1944.


Compared to self-propelled tanks, the SU-152 suffered less casualties from anti-tank artillery fire and enemy tanks. It may seem strange, but a noticeable amount of heavy self-propelled guns was decommissioned due to the full exhaustion of the resource. Apparently, tank repair enterprises, in conditions of saturation of troops with self-propelled guns on the basis of the IS tank, did not want to engage in the laborious restoration of vehicles built on the basis of the discontinued KV-1s. But part of the SU-152, which underwent reconstruction, participated in the hostilities until the surrender of Germany.

Heavy self-propelled artillery mount ISU-152


In November 1943, the ISU-152 heavy self-propelled artillery installation was adopted. However, due to the overloaded production facilities of ChKZ, at first the new self-propelled guns were produced in very small volumes and the SU-152 and ISU-152 were assembled in parallel.


ISU-152

When designing the self-propelled guns ISU-152, created on the basis of the heavy tank IS-85, the operating experience of the SU-152 was taken into account, and the developers tried to get rid of a number of design flaws that were revealed during the combat use. Taking into account the increase in firepower of the German anti-tank artillery, the security of the ISU-152 significantly increased. The thickness of the frontal armor of the hull and wheelhouse was 90 mm. The thickness of the upper part of the hull side and the cabin is 75 mm, the lower part of the hull is 90 mm. Gun mask - 100 mm. In the second half of 1944, the production of machines with a welded front of the hull from rolled armored plates was started instead of a single cast part; the thickness of the armored mask of the gun was increased to 120 mm

The security of the ISU-152 as a whole was not bad. The frontal armor could withstand the penetration of armor-piercing shells fired from the Pak 75 40 mm anti-tank gun and the Kw.K.40 L / 48 tank gun at distances of over 800 m. The self-propelled gun was quite easy to repair. Damaged enemy vehicles in most cases quickly recovered in the field.

The designers paid much attention to improving the reliability of the engine-transmission part of the IS-85 tank and machines manufactured on its basis. The self-propelled guns ISU-152 were equipped with a V-2-IS diesel engine with a maximum power of 520 hp. A vehicle with a combat weight of 46 tons could move along the highway at a speed of 30 km / h. The speed of the dirt road usually did not exceed 20 km / h. Cruising on the highway - up to 250 km.

The main armament, sights and crew remained the same as on the SU-152. But compared with the previous model, the working conditions of the self-propelled guns and the view from the car were improved. The gun had vertical aiming angles from −3 ° to + 20 °, the sector of horizontal aiming was 10 °. Ammunition - 21 shells.


At the end of 1944, a 12,7-mm anti-aircraft machine gun DShK began to be installed on self-propelled guns. At the final stage of the war, a large-caliber anti-aircraft machine-gun mount against the enemy aviation rarely used, but it was very useful during street battles.

In the production process, changes were made to the design of the ISU-152 aimed at improving the combat and operational qualities and reducing the cost of self-propelled guns. After eliminating the "children's sores" ISU-152 has established itself as a very reliable and unpretentious machine. Due to the saturation of the Red Army with anti-tank artillery and the mass production of SU-85, the anti-tank role of the ISU-152 decreased compared to the SU-152. In the second half of 1944, when ISU-152 self-propelled guns appeared at the front in noticeable numbers, enemy tanks began to appear on the battlefield less often, and heavy self-propelled guns were mainly used for their intended purpose - to destroy long-term firing points, make passages in barriers, fire support for advancing tanks and infantry.


Highly effective 152 mm high-explosive fragmentation shells turned out to be in street battles. Hitting a projectile with a fuse on a high-explosive action in a two-story brick city house usually led to the collapse of the floor floors and interior walls. After the explosion of a 43,56-kg 53-OF-540 projectile containing almost 6 kg of TNT, only half-destroyed external walls often remained from the building. Thanks to the relatively short gun barrel, the 152-mm self-propelled guns maneuvered quite freely on the cramped streets of European cities. In the same conditions, the crews of self-propelled guns SU-85, SU-100 and ISU-122 were much more difficult to act.


From the statistics of the combat use of ISU-152 it follows that most often self-propelled guns fired at the enemy fortifications and manpower. The enemy’s armored vehicles, as soon as they appeared in the gunner’s field of vision, instantly became a priority target.


As a self-propelled howitzer, the ISU-152 was rarely used during the war. This was due to the difficulty in controlling the fire of self-propelled guns, as well as the fact that when firing from closed positions the self-propelled guns were inferior to the towed howitzer gun ML-20 with a maximum vertical guidance angle of 65 °. At an elevation angle of 20 ° the 152-mm ML-20S gun could not fire along hinged trajectories with high steepness. This significantly narrowed the scope as a self-propelled howitzer. The supply of shells from the ground during the shooting was difficult, which negatively affected the practical rate of fire. The ISU-152 demonstrated the best efficiency precisely in the role of an assault gun mount, shooting at visually observable targets. In this case, the consumption of shells when performing the same task was many times less than when the self-propelled gun fired from a closed position.


Pz.Kpfw V Panther tank turret after hitting a 152 mm shell

As for the anti-tank capabilities of domestic 152-mm self-propelled guns, they are very greatly exaggerated. There were no vehicles in the Panzerwaff capable of withstanding the penetration of an armor-piercing projectile 53-BR-540 weighing 48,9 kg with an initial speed of 600 m / s. At the same time, taking into account the fact that the range of a direct shot at a target with a height of 3 m from the ML-20C gun was 800 m, and the combat rate of fire was no more than 1,5 rounds / min, in practice, the SU-85 self-propelled guns showed much better . A much cheaper self-propelled gun, built on the T-34 chassis and armed with an 85 mm cannon, was able to make up to 6 rounds / min. At a distance of 800 m, an 85 mm armor-piercing projectile with a high probability pierced the frontal armor of the Tiger. At the same time, the silhouette of the SU-85 was lower, and mobility is better. In a duel situation, the crew of the Tiger or Panther had a much greater chance of victory than the Soviet 152-mm self-propelled guns.


ISU-152 after the detonation of the ammunition

Self-propelled guns with 152 mm guns could successfully operate against medium and heavy tanks with long-barrel 75-88 mm guns only from an ambush. At the same time, there are many examples of successful firing of high-explosive shells at enemy tanks at a distance of up to 3800 m. In this case, several self-propelled guns fired at the enemy, as a rule. With a direct hit of a shell in an enemy tank, even if there was no penetration of the armor, it probably received heavy damage. The close burst of a heavy projectile disrupted the undercarriage, weapons and optics. Having fallen under the shelling of 152-mm HE shells, the enemy tanks in most cases hastily retreated.

At the final stage of the war, ISU-152 became one of the most effective means of hacking the enemy’s long-term defense. Although self-propelled guns, with competent tactics of use, suffered less losses than tanks, in the offensive they sometimes came across anti-tank artillery, operating from ambushes, 88-105-mm anti-aircraft guns mounted on the front line of defense and German heavy tanks.

In 1943, the ChKZ delivered 35 ISU-152 to the military, and in 1944 - 1340 self-propelled guns. ISU-152, together with SU-152 and ISU-122, went to form heavy self-propelled artillery regiments. From May 1943 to 1945, 53 TSAPs were formed. Each regiment had 4 batteries of 5 self-propelled guns. The control platoon also had an IS-2 tank or a regiment commander’s self-propelled gun. In December 1944, to provide fire support to tank armies, the formation of guards heavy self-propelled artillery brigades began. Their organizational structure was borrowed from tank brigades, the number of vehicles in both cases was the same - 65 self-propelled guns or tanks, respectively. For the whole of 1944, 369 vehicles were irretrievably lost at the front.


Taking into account the fact that not all self-propelled guns built in 1944 fell to the front, and some of the vehicles were in training units, it can be assumed that among the ISU-152 participating in the battles in 1944, the losses amounted to more than 25%.


From November 1943 to May 1945, 1840 ISU-152 was built. The production of self-propelled guns ended in 1947. In total, the military took 2825 cars. In the post-war period, the ISU-152 was repeatedly modernized. They served in the Soviet Army until the mid-1970s, after which they were put into storage. Some of the vehicles were converted into tractors and mobile launchers of tactical missiles. Many self-propelled guns have completed their journey in the role of targets at landfills. It is reliably known that the self-propelled gun ISU-152 was used in the aftermath of the Chernobyl accident in 1986.

The ending should ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Soviet self-propelled guns against German tanks in the initial period of the war
Antitank capabilities of Soviet 76,2 mm self-propelled artillery mounts
Antitank capabilities of Soviet 122 mm self-propelled artillery mounts
Antitank capabilities of the Soviet self-propelled artillery mount SU-85
73 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Free wind
    Free wind 2 July 2020 06: 21 New
    17
    Interesting article. The heavy regiments were Guards. The tank commander, gunner and mechanic lead were officers, I remember without fail. Unfortunately, the driver had little chance of survival. He could leave the wrecked car last. The caring mechanic and the tank commander tried to remove the slinging brackets, "earrings" from the damaged vehicles, and were used to splicate the cables. I always thought that in a projectile weighing about 40 kg, explosives, 20 kilograms, turned out to be up to 8, somehow I was disappointed. On the ISU-152, the gear ratios in the gearbox were changed, reducing the speed, thereby reducing the load on the engine, which slightly increased the diesel engine's life. It is striking that many changes were ordered by Comrade Stalin personally. After all, it was known from the first shots that the gas pollution was enormous, and there were a lot of complaints. but to the designers, like peas against the wall. Put on the fan, you need an order from the Supreme In the photo where the warrior is with awards, the gun is pierced in two places. The Hans had machine guns, caliber about 20-25 mm, I don't remember exactly. Maybe they hit from an ambush, but the mechanic left in time. In spite of everything, our grandfathers won!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 July 2020 07: 04 New
      +7
      I don’t know how about the 152mm guns, but in my memoirs I read that 76mm guns pierced by the KV were “repaired” by hammering holes with metal plugs, and then we cleaned the barrel of the gun with an armor-piercing projectile!
      By the way, the above method is reliable or not, I am in ignorance, the “leaky” training PM shoots in the lung !!! Checked personally !!! The only "assertive" muzzle flame, and so the automation works, the return is "zero" !!!
      wink
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 2 July 2020 08: 24 New
        +8
        It may well be the same here, the plug is stuck, scalded. But if the gun mask would penetrate, I would not dare to shoot, it seems that the barrel can tear, the power is huge. In the case of tigers in case of destruction of the muzzle brake, operation was prohibited. Although Carius recalls that one of the crews did not notice the destruction of the muzzle brake.
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 2 July 2020 09: 55 New
        -3
        Yes, the stub will stand, funny. You can and can shoot with a holey trunk, just do not get anywhere.
        1. Passing
          Passing 2 July 2020 14: 40 New
          0
          Kalash shoots his whole life with a holey barrel, and somehow hits.
    2. Vasily
      Vasily 2 July 2020 07: 42 New
      -5
      Mr. Free wind. Where did the firewood come from about a bunch of officer posts as part of one calculation, albeit a guard?
      Do not confuse with sewing uniforms from officer cloth for the victory parade precisely for the posts you named? (The rest simply did not participate in it) and subsequent rumors and expectations of assignments?
      If not, please give a link, I would like to look.
      1. avia12005
        avia12005 2 July 2020 08: 38 New
        11
        Here is the staff for ISU-152.
      2. Free wind
        Free wind 2 July 2020 08: 39 New
        +5
        Resource Ayarmor, written links to the literature which they used. Probably originally read from Drabkin. By the way, our mechanical drivers were held in high esteem. Mekhvodov Tigers were not appreciated, if only the teams understood, the control was very simple, but the gunners were appreciated. Whitman was everywhere with his gunner, and he was awarded bows, crosses, etc. The rest of the composition changed repeatedly.
    3. gregor6549
      gregor6549 2 July 2020 16: 23 New
      10
      About fans and the Supreme. We must not forget that during the Second World War, it was he who forbade changes to weapons and military equipment without his approval. As for the article, it is definitely a big plus. And cognitively and without unnecessary hurry, than some "writers" on VO sin
      1. Ilya Nikitich
        Ilya Nikitich 3 July 2020 21: 14 New
        +2
        Quote: gregor6549
        he forbade changes to armaments and military equipment without his approval.

        In adopted equipment. And what prevented even at the test stage?
        1. volodimer
          volodimer 5 July 2020 17: 26 New
          +1
          The ban was on changes that reduced the output of finished products, But if on the contrary,
          then the opposite. Grabin so ZiS-3 instead of SPM dragged, showing that the quality is not inferior, and the pace of production is higher. Ventilation really had to be further developed during testing.
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 July 2020 06: 26 New
    11
    Thank you Sergey, we were glad that we did not forget the SU-100 !!!
    We look forward to continuing !!!
    Regards, Vlad!
    1. Bongo
      3 July 2020 13: 34 New
      +3
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Thank you Sergey, we were glad that we did not forget the SU-100 !!!
      We look forward to continuing !!!
      Regards, Vlad!

      Vladislav, hello!
      SU-100 will be considered in the final part of the cycle. I’ll try to give an analysis of the anti-tank capabilities of our self-propelled guns according to the criteria of security and firepower.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 July 2020 14: 44 New
        +2
        Thanks in advance!
        Maybe you’ll get your hands on the first generation of post-war domestic self-propelled guns?
        Regards, Vlad!
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 2 July 2020 06: 42 New
    14
    Thanks to the author for the continuation.
    To our unit in the 90s they brought a half-torn 152yu for a month ... We had the good fortune to be inside. Her fate was sad - she was sent for scrap. And as for me, doing this with rare cars is a crime. But ... "the dashing nineties" ...
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 2 July 2020 10: 31 New
      +1
      Well, what should have been done with the "half-torn" box? And not so rare ISU-152. Vaughn, the network offers canned food for 6.4 million "not on the go" or 13 million "on the go."
  4. avia12005
    avia12005 2 July 2020 07: 04 New
    28
    Dad fought in the 333rd separate heavy self-propelled artillery guard of the orders of Alexander Nevsky and Mikhail Kutuzov, the Red Banner of Battle of the Polotsk-Novobugsky regiment. 1st Baltic and 1st Far Eastern Front. After the Victory, we went to the Far East and fought with Japan. Urgent service for 7 years - from 1943 to 1950.

  5. EvilLion
    EvilLion 2 July 2020 10: 02 New
    +2
    EMNIP, the French using the "panthers" after WWII, noted that it took at least half a minute for the gunner to be able to shoot at the target found by the commander. But from the couch it is good and convenient to talk about the number of shots per minute.
    1. Bolo
      Bolo 2 July 2020 11: 50 New
      -1
      The opinion of the French defeatists is very important ... Well, well ...
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 2 July 2020 16: 46 New
        +1
        Unlike the couch fighters, they at least sat in the tank, albeit for a short time, which also speaks of the real value of the "panther", although the Pz-IV fought after WWII.
        1. Bolo
          Bolo 2 July 2020 22: 43 New
          +1
          I, unlike you, the sofa moth, did not "sit" in the tank, but did practice shooting exercises ...
    2. Alf
      Alf 2 July 2020 19: 37 New
      +4
      Quote: EvilLion
      EMNIP, the French using the "panthers" after WWII, noted that it took at least half a minute for the gunner to be able to shoot at the target found by the commander. But from the couch it is good and convenient to talk about the number of shots per minute.

      I very rarely agree with you, but I put + for what you called the term "real rate of fire". The fact is that many colleagues here represent the battle as "brought the car into position and fell in one direction."
  6. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 2 July 2020 10: 19 New
    10
    A much cheaper self-propelled gun, built on the T-34 chassis and armed with an 85 mm cannon, was able to make up to 6 rounds / min.

    This is possible only for one fixed target and without interference from explosions and dim.
    For a target that is in motion and on the battlefield 2-3 shots per minute a very good result.
    1. Usher
      Usher 2 July 2020 11: 53 New
      -19 qualifying.
      What are "explosive" and "dim"?
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 2 July 2020 20: 49 New
        10
        Do not cling to the Bulgarian, they do not have the letter "y", as he can, and writes.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 2 July 2020 14: 45 New
      +8
      Quote: Kostadinov
      This is possible only for one fixed target and without interference from explosions and dim.
      For a target that is in motion and on the battlefield 2-3 shots per minute a very good result.

      Not everything is so simple. ©
      The rate of fire is extremely important when finishing off a target - when, after the first hit, shell after shell is inserted into it "until the appearance of characteristic signs" (fire, smoke, change in the silhouette of the target).
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 2 July 2020 16: 49 New
        +7
        Given the percentage of tanks repaired, methodical execution, apparently, was far from always possible. In the case of 122-152 mm shells, there is most likely nothing to finish off.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 2 July 2020 18: 02 New
          +5
          Quote: EvilLion
          Given the percentage of tanks repaired, methodical execution, apparently, was far from always possible. In the case of 122-152 mm shells, there is most likely nothing to finish off.

          In the case of 122-152 mm, it is important in the case of the first miss to quickly hit the target with a second shot - until that target hit the unmanned self-propelled gun.
  7. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 2 July 2020 11: 22 New
    12
    Hello Sergey, a very interesting cycle, like all your work. I have a request, if you have time, to describe other countries, the USA, Great Britain and of course Germany and Japan. Thank you very much.
    1. Bongo
      3 July 2020 13: 36 New
      +6
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      Hello Sergey, a very interesting cycle, like all your work. I have a request, if you have time, to describe other countries, the USA, Great Britain and of course Germany and Japan. Thank you very much.

      Hello, hello! You gave me an interesting idea! Perhaps in the future in the presence of free time I’ll take care of.
  8. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 2 July 2020 11: 39 New
    +5
    During the planning of the offensive operations of 1943, it was expected that Soviet troops would have to break into a long-term deeply echeloned defense with concrete pillboxes. Under these conditions, the need arose for heavy self-propelled guns with weapons similar to the KV-2. However, by that time, the production of 152 mm M-10 howitzers had been discontinued, and the KV-2 itself, which had not worked very well, were practically all lost in battle. After comprehending the experience of operating self-propelled gun mounts, the designers came to understand that from the point of view of obtaining optimal weight and size characteristics, the placement of a large-caliber gun in an armored wheelhouse is more optimal than in a rotating turret.

    In fact, work on self-propelled guns with a 152-mm gun in the cabin began in the first half of 1942.
    On April 15, 1942, a meeting of the plenum of the Artillery Committee of the GAU KA was held, dedicated to the further development of self-propelled artillery. The decisions worked out on its results became key in the development of the main Soviet self-propelled artillery mounts (ACS) of the military period. Among others, the meeting approved requirements for a heavy self-propelled gun, which was supposed to replace the “bunker fighter” 212.
    © Y. Pasholok
    The main problem of the first stage of development was the struggle between "theorists" and "practitioners": the "theoreticians" demanded that the BR-2 be put into the cockpit, and the "practitioners" reasonably indicated that there were few such artillery systems available, and new ones were not being produced - and they suggested installing ML- 20.
    The cabin on the 152-mm self-propelled guns migrated from the KV-7: initially it was required to maximize the use of the reserve for the armored hulls of this tank, which was made before a decision was made to cancel its production.
  9. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 2 July 2020 11: 59 New
    10
    They served in the Soviet Army until the mid-1970s, after which they were put into storage.

    If my memory serves me, then until that time they simply hadn’t come up with anything better, in fact, did Nikita Sergeyevich associates get interested in rockets, and not barrel artillery? And, in fact, new self-propelled guns began to be developed already under Brezhnev? hi (the atomic monsters "Eye" and "Capacitor" do not count). wink
    1. Flamberg
      Flamberg 2 July 2020 12: 09 New
      +3
      They just could shoot specials. ammunition.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 2 July 2020 12: 23 New
        +9
        They just could shoot specials. ammunition.

        Yes exactly. Shirokorad writes that, for lack of better systems, special ammunition was developed even for the old B-4 howitzer. Apparently, already for the B-4M, on wheels ...
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 2 July 2020 17: 43 New
          13
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          even for the old B-4 howitzer.
          By the way, the caterpillar mount was quite good as a stand.
          Stand for firing tests A-1404 - 2-barreled 152 mm 2A86 from the "Coalition-SV" on a B-4 carriage:
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 2 July 2020 12: 11 New
      +6
      "Carnation", "Acacia", "Hyacinth" appeared after Nikita Sergeevich was removed!
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 2 July 2020 12: 19 New
        +9
        "Carnation", "Acacia", "Hyacinth" appeared after Nikita Sergeevich was removed!

        yes, and they still serve themselves quite well! On Damanskoye in 1969, M-30 howitzers were used from barrel artillery. True, that howitzer was a masterpiece, but nothing new was created after the death of Joseph Vissarionovich. Grabin's "Triplex" from the new C-23, C-33 and C-43 guns was safely hacked to death. request
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 2 July 2020 12: 30 New
          +7
          Well, the tanks did not dare to refuse.
          Got it all! And gunners and shipbuilders with aviators!
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 July 2020 13: 54 New
            11
            Quote: hohol95
            Well, the tanks did not dare to refuse.
            Got it all! And gunners and shipbuilders with aviators!

            With the filing of Khrushchev, rocket tanks were being developed! So the tank destroyer SU-122-54 "died" simultaneously with the French "Foch" and a little earlier than the German "Yaga"! We have got rocket IT with the Dragon complex, and the Germans also hung ATGMs instead of a cannon on the Yaga! I can lie about the French, but the projects of their lungs with anti-tank systems on the mask were definitely !!! By the way, the Americans with their Sheridan and M60A2 also carried away with missile tanks !!!
            So it’s possible to blame Khrushchev for the missile “enthusiasm”, but for a couple of serious companys from the leaders of the USA, Germany and France!
            Regards, Vlad!
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 2 July 2020 14: 49 New
              12
              So it’s possible to blame Khrushchev for the missile “enthusiasm”, but for a couple of serious companys from the leaders of the USA, Germany and France!

              when progress makes another round, offering previously unknown types of technology, there comes a time of trial and error. Many are addicted, and then disappointed. request
              Here, if you remember, at the beginning of the 30s a certain Kurchevsky proposed to re-equip all artillery with his "recoilless" systems, and for this he found an ally in the person of the powerful Tukhachevsky. It ended badly. For both...hi
              Photos from the VO forum for 2019, posted by a good man Dmitry under the nickname PPD good
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 July 2020 14: 53 New
                +5
                “The search for the new is full of mistakes, otherwise it does not happen!”
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 2 July 2020 15: 02 New
                  +7
                  “The search for the new is full of mistakes, otherwise it does not happen!”

                  Exactly! They just sometimes cost a lot.
                  Remember "our unfortunate gun drama"? For fifty years, rifle progress has jumped several generations! Probably more than in all the previous time. drinks
                2. Alf
                  Alf 2 July 2020 19: 47 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  “The search for the new is full of mistakes, otherwise it does not happen!”

                  You are absolutely right, but you should not jump into the water with your head.
            2. hohol95
              hohol95 2 July 2020 15: 43 New
              +5
              IT-1 was released. Released. 193 pcs. released. Armed for 3 years.
        2. CTABEP
          CTABEP 2 July 2020 18: 48 New
          +4
          Um, how is nothing created? The same D-30 for example. Well, later Msta, Nona, Hyacinth, etc.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 3 July 2020 12: 49 New
            +3
            Um, how is nothing created? The same D-30 for example. Well, later Msta, Nona, Hyacinth, etc.

            Michael, my tirade dates back to the time of Khrushchev. Under Nikita Sergeyevich, barrel artillery was in the pen. hi In the first comment I emphasized this. with respect, hi
    3. strannik1985
      strannik1985 2 July 2020 13: 05 New
      +6
      If my memory serves me, then until that time nothing was better, in fact,

      https://yandex.ru/turbo/s/ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%A3-152%D0%93
      There was SU-152G - it was developed in 1948 - 1950, from 1950 to June 1955 it underwent state testing and fine-tuning, after which it was put into service, but in the same year most of the work on self-propelled artillery was stopped at the direction of Khrushchev.
    4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 July 2020 13: 42 New
      +7
      Hi Nikolay!
      Until 1957, the SU-122-54 was mass-produced, based on the 54 with a 122 mm gun! A total of 77 self-propelled guns were released! After removal from service, they for a long time acted as Emergency tractors at parades in Moscow. By the way, their photos as tractors are often mistakenly replaced instead of the SU-100.
      Regards, Vlad!
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 2 July 2020 13: 51 New
        +9
        Vladislav, hello!
        A total of 77 self-propelled guns were released!

        for our then army - this is a drop in the bucket!
        After removal from service, they for a long time acted as Emergency tractors at parades in Moscow. By the way, their photos as tractors are often mistakenly replaced instead of the SU-100.

        I didn’t know that! For information on them - I bow! drinks
    5. Alf
      Alf 2 July 2020 19: 42 New
      +5
      Quote: Pane Kohanku
      And, in fact, new self-propelled guns began to be developed already under Brezhnev?

      You are right, the "flower garden" blossomed after the 70th year.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 3 July 2020 15: 15 New
        +3
        You are right, the "flower garden" blossomed after the 70th year.

        Nevertheless, how creative people are, in terms of humor, our military inventors! drinks Only "Buratino" has a name cooler than the "flower garden"! good
  10. BAI
    BAI 2 July 2020 12: 44 New
    +4
    All our self-propelled guns were confidently struck by German tanks at all battle ranges. Self-propelled guns had a chance to survive only if she shot and hit first.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 2 July 2020 12: 54 New
      +7
      Were our ACS developed according to the performance characteristics of the YagdTiger?
      This German had a whole "constellation" of assault, anti-tank, howitzer, anti-aircraft self-propelled guns. And the USSR could not spend resources on such "highly specialized" machines.
      I would like to, but alas. Only "multifunctional".
      And hack the fortification and knock out the tank.
      Drive infantry with cavalry!
      1. BAI
        BAI 2 July 2020 13: 22 New
        +4
        SU-100. It is anti-tank. It is she - St. John's wort.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 July 2020 14: 08 New
          +8
          Quote: BAI
          SU-100. It is anti-tank. It is she - St. John's wort.

          For the first time, I came across a similar opinion in the computer game T-72. To be honest - tore the stereotypes! After, I began to collect information that was “St. John's Wort”! Now with confidence, I can write that for the first time “St. John's Wort” were named on the SU-152! Later this name was massively inherited by our ISU-122, ISU-122s, ISU-152!
          The SU-100 was also mentioned in the front-line press as “St. John's wort”, but by an order of magnitude less.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 2 July 2020 15: 30 New
            +1
            So the Su-76 can be called a "St. John's wort" if its crew matches the Pz.II ausf.L "Luchs" or, for example, the 8.8 cm PaK 43/1 auf Geschützwagen III / IV (Sf) "Náshorn" (until January 27, 1944 they were called "Hornisse" (German Hornisse - "hornet")).
            Those who knocked out the self-propelled guns "Wespe", "Grille" or "Hummel" were not called "Disinsectors" !!!
        2. hohol95
          hohol95 2 July 2020 15: 44 New
          +1
          And if the crew of the Su-76 destroys the Nashorn self-propelled gun, will we consider it a "brutal kill"? "Rhino" after all filled up ...
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 2 July 2020 21: 13 New
            12
            Alexei, my grandfather, the gunner of the 152mm howitzer, called her in his stories “The Cat-Dog”. On her account was one tank, but it was taken without the participation of his grandfather.
            By the way, all his dogs were “kabysdohami”, and other people's cats “fascists”. His was a "partisan"! He really stole a sausage skillfully, but his grandfather aptly threw it under the tail (felt boot, dummy or galosh)! Depending on what was at hand! Sometimes he was not at all embarrassed from one corner of the hut to another, and he never missed! The cat really didn’t give up his habit and all the bad things were crawling from the table!
            1. Alf
              Alf 2 July 2020 22: 19 New
              10
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              And never missed!

              So the gunner!
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 2 July 2020 13: 03 New
      17
      M. Baryatinsky "Soviet tank aces"
      Nikolai Konstantinovich Shishkin, the commander of the battery of heavy self-propelled guns SU-152, shared his battles on Belarusian soil in his memoirs.
      I remember one fight. Three tanks of the head patrol, which came out of the forest into the clearing and climbed the hill, were destroyed by the Tiger, which stood openly on the other side of the clearing. It was impossible to get around this clearing, and the brigade commander ordered: “Are you“ St. John's wort ”? So destroy this tank. " My self-propelled gun advanced forward, went to the foot of the hill and slowly climbed it. I leaned out of my hatch to the waist. At some point, I saw a German tank resting its stern on the trunk of a huge tree. The tiger fired. A swirl of air from a disc whistling over my head nearly knocked me out of the hatch. While I was thinking what to do, he still released one or two blanks, but since only a fragment of the cabin was sticking out over the hill, and the trajectory of the cannon shell was flat, he didn’t hit. What to do? Crawl out - perish in vain. And then I decided to take advantage of the capabilities of my 152 mm howitzer gun, which had a hinged projectile flight path. I noticed a bush on this hill. Looking through the bore, I got from the driver the position of self-propelled guns so that the bush was aligned with the crown of the tree, under which stood a German tank. After that, using the sight, he lowered the gun so that the projectile passed above the ground itself. There are a million calculations, but I tell you longer than I did all this. I sat behind the gunner, I saw a bush in the sight. Shot! I protrude from the hatch - the Tiger tower lies next to it, as if it had fallen under the edge! Then they wrote in a brigade newspaper: “Shishkin shoots like Schweik - from around the corner.”

      Sometimes the 152 mm howitzer helped.
  11. evgen1221
    evgen1221 2 July 2020 16: 07 New
    +5
    An interesting article about these machines can be written sooo much and interesting. Iconic cars for the Red Army.
  12. Phil77
    Phil77 2 July 2020 17: 29 New
    +3
    Thank you, Sergey! A very good article. I was waiting for it! But I would like more details about using the ISU-152 in the aftermath of the Chernobyl accident.
    1. Bongo
      3 July 2020 13: 42 New
      +4
      Quote: Phil77
      Thank you Sergey! Very good article. Waiting for her!

      drinks
      Quote: Phil77
      But I want more details about the use of ISU-152 in the aftermath of the Chernobyl accident.

      Sergey, for my part, in this publication it would be incorrect to describe in detail the use of ISU-152 during the liquidation of the Chernobyl accident. A separate article should be done on this topic.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 3 July 2020 14: 14 New
        +3
        I welcome you Sergey!
        I hope and wait! hi
  13. Alien From
    Alien From 2 July 2020 18: 50 New
    +2
    Very interesting article, thanks to the author)
  14. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 2 July 2020 23: 32 New
    +4
    The main difference between the Su-152 and ISU-152 is not so much in armor, but because the Su-152 inherited from the KV tanks a terrible transmission on IS and SAU tanks based on them, this problem was solved for the better
  15. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 3 July 2020 15: 09 New
    +3
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quote: EvilLion
    Given the percentage of tanks repaired, methodical execution, apparently, was far from always possible. In the case of 122-152 mm shells, there is most likely nothing to finish off.

    In the case of 122-152 mm, it is important in the case of the first miss to quickly hit the target with a second shot - until that target hit the unmanned self-propelled gun.

    It is very important what kind of miss. If the shell flew away far behind the target, then it will have time to quickly respond. But if the projectile fell somewhere in front of the target, under the age, then the response shot will not work out quickly, and if it is 2-3 meters ahead of the target, then the shot back shot may not be hit.
  16. Yuri Krasnov
    Yuri Krasnov 7 July 2020 10: 00 New
    +1
    My father fought in the 1548 TSAP in the KV-1S as a radio operator. Then a T-34 driver. And as part of this regiment, in August 1943, he liberated Kharkov, Kremenchug. He fought in the Poltava region. According to his stories, by October 43rd, only a few people were left without cars from the regiment. The regiment received the rank of guards and they were kept so that at least one of the regiment's veterans was present at the presentation of the guards banner. But it did not grow together. All were sent to other parts. It follows from his stories that the theoretical staffing of TSAP had little to do with reality. His regiment included several KV-1S, and not one commander. And even the T-34. In any case, having lost his KV at the very beginning, until the end of his service in the regiment he fought only in the thirty-four. And in his stories about the capture of Kharkov, only T-34s figured.
  17. kot-begemot
    kot-begemot 12 July 2020 22: 24 New
    +1
    I read it with pleasure. +
  18. Gregory Charnota
    Gregory Charnota 1 August 2020 01: 29 New
    0
    Why is there no information in the article about the use of sau against the Japanese during the liberation of China?
    my grandfather fought on the ISU-152 in China and was awarded the Order of the Red Star.
    1. Bongo
      1 August 2020 13: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: Gregory Charnota
      Why is there no information in the article about the use of sau against the Japanese during the liberation of China?

      Because the publication is called:
      Anti-tank capabilities of the Soviet self-propelled artillery systems SU-152 and ISU-152
  19. Bryanskiy_Volk
    Bryanskiy_Volk 10 September 2020 13: 15 New
    0
    I would put the author with a laptop in any German tank of the Second World War, somewhere a kilometer from the SU-152 and start shooting from it (at a speed of 1 - 1,5 rounds per minute), and the author at this time, so that he just started his printed snapping opuses with reasoning about the shortcomings of these self-propelled guns as anti-tank weapons. So - this would be responsibility for one's own words, and so ... blah-blah-blah: a chewed-chewed theme, another attempt to multiply things without the necessary
  20. Andycomm
    Andycomm 26 September 2020 23: 08 New
    0
    What did secret rear-line saboteurs do with intelligent faces just not to debug a cumulative projectile of at least 57 mm ...