The infrastructure under the "Mistral" will cost Russia 3 billion rubles

216
On February 1, 2012, the construction of the first of two Mistral-type warships, which are intended for the Russian Navy, began in France fleet. The first Mistrals will be part of the Russian Navy under the names Vladivostok and Sevastopol. It is planned that the first universal landing ship (UDC) will be delivered to Russia in 2014, the second in 2015. By this time, all work on the construction of a special berth complex in Vladivostok should be completed. It is already known that the first 2 power projection ships, as they are positioned in the Russian Ministry of Defense, will be based on the Pacific Fleet.

It is worth noting that in the USSR Navy there was a sad experience of operating aircraft-carrying cruisers of the 1143 project without the appropriate infrastructure. One of the last ships of this series, the Admiral Gorshkov (there were only 4 aircraft carriers) was painfully reworked into a “normal” aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy and was given the name Vikramaditya, currently the ship is participating in full-scale sea trials. The remaining three aircraft carriers in this series were written off and sold for scrap abroad (1 to South Korea and 2 to China). From the number of decommissioned ships, two (“Novorossiysk and“ Minsk ”) were part of the Pacific Fleet and were based in Vladivostok.

At the same time, according to the head of the Institute of Political and Military Analysis, Alexander Khramchikhin, the Soviet government, which was ready to spend huge amounts of money on its armed forces and the fleet in particular, did not build berths and corresponding ground infrastructure for these ships. Therefore, these ships spent their entire life in the raid. For this reason, they could not, like other ships of the fleet, use the electric power from external land sources while mooring at the berths. And, accordingly, all the time, while on the roadstead, the cruiser data stood with the engines turned on, meaninglessly developing the service life and fuel. At the beginning of the 1990s, they were written off from the fleet not only because the country ran out of money, but also because they lived their lives 2 faster than they were and were actually written off. In the event that these ships had their own berths, their lifespan could be increased by at least 10-15 years. Those were the times of the socialist economy, with its complete inability to count money. Today, in times of market economy, the construction of appropriate infrastructure for UDC "Mistral" began to think in advance.
The infrastructure under the "Mistral" will cost Russia 3 billion rubles

The French UDC "Mistral", which Russia acquired, including to gain access to the latest shipbuilding technologies, will be located in the bay of Bolshoy Ulysses of Vladivostok, where one of the bases of the Pacific Fleet of Russia is located. A few meters from this bay, the famous “APEC bridge” was built, which connected Russky Island with Vladivostok. It is on the Russian island in September 2012, the APEC summit will take place.

A source in the Russian Defense Ministry told the newspaper Izvestia that the mooring front of the bay will be subject to reconstruction procedures for basing helicopter carriers of French construction, the new power station will be upgraded, and the corresponding infrastructure will be built. The final amount of work that will be needed in the bay will be determined before the end of 2012. It is reported that all the necessary work to upgrade the coastal infrastructure will be completed before the end of 2014. The cost of base reconstruction was estimated at 2-3 billion rubles, but this amount may increase several times if Anatoly Serdyukov decides to build a separate base for Mistral instead of modernizing the existing infrastructure.

At the same time, the headquarters of the Pacific Fleet explained that they were ready to receive the Mistrals without reconstructing existing piers. According to representatives of the fleet, surface ships are quite versatile and can stand on the old piers, in contrast, for example, from submarines. The source "Izvestia" reported that the arrival of new ships for the fleet is not something extraordinary. In Soviet times, every year, new ships arrived in Kamchatka on the 3-4, while there was always room for them.
Ulysses Bay in Vladivostok, view from the cable-stayed bridge to the Russky Island

In the event that the leadership of the Pacific Fleet decides to build new piers under the Mistrali, then for their operation it will be necessary to build new electrical substations to power the ships with energy or connect the piers to the existing capacities, it will also be necessary to provide communications in order to provide the ships with fresh water . In addition, it will be necessary to install checkpoints, as well as separate warehouses for the storage of various weapons located on the ship, a base for landing equipment and a helicopter base.

It is planned to serve the ships at local shipyards - Dalzavod and OJSC "Far Eastern Plant" Zvezda ", located in the Closed Large Natural Stone. At the same time housing for the crews already have. There is a residential complex with vacant apartments in Bolshoy Ulysses Bay. In addition, according to representatives of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the infrastructure of the garrisons and military camps of the Eastern Military District will be significantly modernized before the arrival of the Mistrals.

Leonid Ivashov, President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, noted that the lack of a clear decision on where and how Mistrals will be based is quite logical. According to him, the Defense Ministry first acquires expensive ships, and then simply does not know what to do with them and where to put them. Sailors, meanwhile, are confident that the very first large boulder of this ship can sink - it has rather weak sides. It is also unclear why landing ships were needed in Vladivostok.
Mistral in St. Petersburg

Helicopter landing craft docks of the Mistral type have a length of 210 meters and a displacement of 21 000 tons. The crew of the ship consists of 160 people. The ship is able to take on board troops numbering 450 people (briefly up to 900 people), as well as 16 helicopters weighing no more than 12 tons. To place them on the ship there is a hangar with a total area of ​​1,8 thousand square meters. meters The maximum speed of the ship is 18 knots, the maximum cruising range 20 000 km. Currently, 2 ships of this type are in service with the French Navy, another ship is under construction.

Mistrals will sail to Russia with all technological and navigation equipment, including the SENIT-9 combat information and control system, perhaps the most valuable element in the deal between France and Russia. At the same time, weapons and helicopters on ships will be Russian-made. It is planned that the French-built 2 "Mistral", and the ships built in our country will receive the most advanced Russian weapons systems, including PU supersonic cruise missiles, as well as the latest anti-aircraft and missile defense systems. Anti-submarine defense systems will be installed on the ship. The installation of weapons on the "Mistral" of the French assembly will be carried out in Russia at one of the defense enterprises, after the ships arrive from the shipyards of Saint-Nazaire.

According to the design engineer of the OKB Kamov Sergey Mikheev, domestic helicopters Ka-52, Ka-29 and Ka-226 can be based on the Mistral-type ships. In this case, the Russian ships will be on 8 Ka-52K and Ka-29, that is, 8 shock and 8 transport and combat vehicles. This combination can be easily changed depending on the tasks to be set before the courts.

Information sources

- http://izvestia.ru/news/531825
- http://gunm.ru/news/prichal_dlja_mistralja/2011-07-25-387
-http: //texnomaniya.ru/voennaya-texnika/dlja-rossijjskikh-mistralejj-postrojat-specprichali.html
- http://en.wikipedia.org/
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216 comments
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  1. +18
    3 August 2012 07: 54
    Creation of infrastructure for these ships is the only correct step, yes it is expensive, but not having it is even more expensive the fate of the TARK "MINSK", "KIEV", "NOVOROSIYSK" is quite obvious. The fact that they are needed at the Pacific Fleet is also clear, territorial disputes with Japan over the Kuriles, and the Pacific Fleet Theater itself says that these ships are needed first of all by the Pacific Fleet.
    Most importantly, these ships need sufficient cover without which they are just big targets, but we still have a problem with this. The fleet forces that are currently at the Pacific Fleet are clearly not enough to create full-fledged groupings to cover these helicopter carriers. But there is still time to eliminate this unpleasantness.
    1. +15
      3 August 2012 08: 31
      I was in Kiev in 92 about the infrastructure I agree, besides 3 billion money is not big + jobs for local
      1. dreamer
        +8
        3 August 2012 08: 48
        First, our rulers made a "trampled fit" of France, and now they think where these "means of fighting the Papuans" could be used, spending a lot of money on it. I think that these are not the last expenses, but we are unlikely to wait for the return on them. A strange desire to drive them to the Pacific Fleet, unlike the respected Sakhalin, I do not see areas of application there for the Mistrals ... It would be easier for the Black Sea Fleet to train crews, they would be a good deterrent to Mishiko there, especially in the context of the upcoming transit of NATO equipment from Afghanistan to Georgia (yesterday's news on the site) and could reason with the Georgian border guards in Abkhaz and neutral waters, but this is IMHO, smile
        1. +9
          3 August 2012 09: 03
          Papuans are Japanese, with a very decent fleet. Thanks to these ships, the Black Shark, or rather the Alligator, will live.
        2. +6
          3 August 2012 09: 07
          In general, they seem to have 4 pieces planned ...
          If 2 is on the Pacific Fleet, 2 is on the Black Sea Fleet, then everything is more or less justified. Definitely at the Pacific Fleet, these coffins can be useful. I think the topic of the Kuril Islands is not closed, so UDC there may come in handy.
          1. +1
            3 August 2012 09: 59
            The Kuril theme can be cooked for centuries. Like, for example, the theme of Gibraltar, which Spain still considers its own, and England spits on it, although 300 years have passed. China is what they fear.
            1. +3
              3 August 2012 16: 58
              Doooo, China - this is strong, 900 x 2 = 1800 paratroopers and 32 helicopters ...
              1. -1
                3 August 2012 17: 36
                Once again, it can be repeated - these ships operate as part of groups.
                1. 0
                  3 August 2012 18: 47
                  Nobody is going to fight with China, just as China is with us, so it makes no sense to build a fleet and an army in the Far East against China. In any case, it is impossible to oppose the Chinese army in the Far East, except for nuclear weapons, and therefore it is not necessary, otherwise it is a waste of energy in vain.
                  1. 0
                    3 August 2012 19: 44
                    About impossible - this is a wonderful topic. Do I stock up on popcorn?

                    And under "no one is going to fight with China, like China with us" to take the second and third? Is it really surprising that India, also possessing nuclear weapons, officially brought China into the enemy?
                    1. 0
                      4 August 2012 00: 07
                      Quote: Pimply
                      About impossible - this is a wonderful topic. Do I stock up on popcorn?

                      Ahem, you don’t have to eat so much popcorn ... But with the number of people that we have in the Far East, you don’t even have to try ... And if we always set such a task, then based on the size of the Chinese army, we will have We’re not building SSBNs, but digging all the money trenches along the Chinese border, because my opinion (and not the truth) ... well, I won’t repeat it.
                      And I didn’t understand your second paragraph at all ... And don’t whip up anti-Chinese hysteria already, don’t please our Fashington friends ... we have much more problems with them.
                    2. +1
                      5 August 2012 13: 32
                      even the mighty USSR was not going to fight conventional weapons with China, for this we had and have a large number of nuclear weapons.
        3. +7
          3 August 2012 09: 23
          Quote: dreamer
          At first, our rulers made a "trampled fit" of France, and now they think where these "means of fighting the Papuans" could be used, spending a lot of money on it. I think that these are not the last expenses, but we are unlikely to wait for the return on them. A strange desire to drive them to the Pacific Fleet


          The fact that this is to some extent drank and fit is a large grain of truth, but first of all they bought not ships, but technology. The point is that mastering the Mistral construction technology will be a springboard for starting the construction of aircraft carriers. The creation of the appropriate infrastructure, for these ships is also a step towards the beginning of the normal construction of aircraft carriers, the construction of a large fleet must begin with the construction of the supporting infrastructure without it, the ships standing with colossal means turn into trash.
          The fact that the Pacific Fleet is primarily needed and the Pacific Fleet needs them is read from the theater of reclamation. The Kuril Islands is the bridgehead for holding which exactly such ships are needed because it is very expensive and difficult to keep large military units on the key Kuril Islands Iturup, Kunashir, Shikotan on an ongoing basis, and with the help of the Mistrals, it is possible to deliver quickly enough and provide support to fairly large military units. In addition, the strengthening of the Pacific Fleet is vital given that now our surface fleet forces are inferior in this theater not only to China, but also to Japan and South Korea.
          1. dreamer
            0
            3 August 2012 09: 31
            Sergei, I agree with you about the purchase of technology, although I don’t understand how this will be a springboard for the construction of aircraft carriers. It seems to me that the construction of the Kuzi, which has already been mastered earlier to the aircraft carrier, is much closer than the Mistral (in fact, a large barge).
            The Kuril Islands cannot be held by the Mistrals; they are much more protected by the presence of nuclear weapons in Russia. Given the combat effectiveness of the fleets in that region of the Mistral, there are just targets and nothing more. IMHO
            1. +9
              3 August 2012 09: 59
              Quote: dreamer
              Sergei, I agree with you about the purchase of technology, although I don’t understand how this will be a springboard for the construction of aircraft carriers. It seems to me that the construction of the Kuzi, which has already been mastered earlier to the aircraft carrier, is much closer than the Mistral (in fact, a large barge). The Kuril Islands cannot be held by the Mistrals, they are much more strongly guarded by the presence of nuclear weapons in Russia. Given the combat effectiveness of the fleets in that Mistral region, there are just targets and nothing more. IMHO


              Alexei, see for yourself Kuzya, like his predecessors was built in Nikolaev (Ukraine), such ships were not built in Russia. The construction technology, in fact, with the collapse of the union, has been partially lost; the infrastructure for such ships is 0. Now all this is bought and mastered.
              According to the Kuril Islands, yes, Mistrals alone cannot be held back, but as an additional deterrent that they are very important. In addition, as I wrote above, with the help of these ships it is possible to quickly transfer large military units to the required areas and provide them with appropriate support. On the target, yes this is the target, but we now have the means to protect this target, albeit scarce, but there are also plans to build and new ships are being built for the same Pacific Fleet that will be able to support the Mistrals.
              According to Yao, yes this is a deterrent, but this is the last argument of the kings and apply it is not good for themselves. Therefore, one must be able to act not only nuclear weapons, but also by conventional means.
              1. dreamer
                +3
                3 August 2012 10: 01
                SakhalininskConvinced hi
              2. Wolkin
                0
                4 August 2012 06: 47
                ...... yes it is a target, but we now have means to protect this target, albeit scarce, but there are ......

                Means of protection - either they are, or they are not. For example: I have a helmet for the battle, but it is made of plastic, I took it from a friend of the builder, but I have no money for metal.
            2. +9
              3 August 2012 10: 32
              Quote: dreamer
              The Kuril Islands cannot be held by the Mistrals; they are much more protected by the presence of nuclear weapons in Russia.


              If we approach this, then we do not need anything at all. In the event of a provocation, local confusion, what, at once "Satan" in Tokyo? I think that in the event of something like Khasan or Khalkhin-Gol, it is necessary to act more subtly. Sometimes it is worthwhile to firmly attach a pegged neighbor with his muzzle on the table, rather than immediately with an ax on the kumpol.

              Quote: dreamer
              Given the combat effectiveness of the fleets in that region of the Mistral, there are just targets and nothing more. IMHO


              I support. At the Pacific Fleet, these chests need real support ships. And we have sadness in general with ships there. I looked at the convoys, so it’s not clear where the fleet is, and where the self-defense forces.

              Japan Self-Defense Forces:
              Helicopter destroyers - 2
              Torpedo boats - 2
              Destroyers URO - 8
              Destroyers - 32
              Frigates - 6
              Submarines - 18
              Aircraft - 172
              Helicopters - 133

              This is me all sorts of minesweepers and boats too lazy to consider ...

              And we have?
              1164 Atlant missile cruiser Varyag - 1
              Large anti-submarine ship project 1155 "Frigate" - 4;
              Destroyer URO project 956 "Sarych" - 1;
              Large landing ship project 775 - 4;
              SSBN project 667BDR "Squid" - 3;
              Project 949A nuclear submarine with cruise missiles - 3
              971 Project Nuclear Submarine - 3
              877 Project Diesel Electric Torpedo Submarine - 6

              More than modest.

              There is, of course, "Admiral Lazarev", but it can only be introduced by 2020.
              There are three more "Sarychs", three SSGNs, one SSBN under repair / storage.

              Sorrow ...
              1. His
                +1
                3 August 2012 23: 04
                I agree. If the Japs make a krieg blitz and capture the Kuril Islands, America and the whole shitty community of the modern Entente (NATO) will not fight us back. Then golden words will be remembered who should feed which army. As for the use of nuclear weapons. Japan in the United States included in the list of allies in the use of nuclear weapons
                1. 0
                  4 August 2012 11: 23
                  And what will prevent the use of non-nuclear weapons at Japanese nuclear power plants.
                2. 0
                  5 August 2012 13: 35
                  but don’t scare you yourself, do you really think that the United States will harness a nuclear conflict for some cross-eyed Japs. they understand that for every action. there is opposition, and on their territory.
              2. karate
                +1
                4 August 2012 04: 09
                All of the listed military units (except for nuclear submarines and submarines) are capable of fighting only against rubber boats in the Gulf of Aden, all of them, and destroyers and frigates, are almost 40 years old.
        4. +3
          3 August 2012 09: 57
          What do you think, why did the first C400 divisions be thrown to the Far East, hiding behind the fact that it was necessary to defend themselves against potential DPRK missiles? The answer is so simple: CHINA. Mishiko is unlikely to climb anywhere, because he is well aware of the situation, and he is leaving the presidency. But China ... China is a big question.
          1. +5
            3 August 2012 10: 33
            No, rather, the restlessness of the Japs, if you look at the map of the Chinese fleet in the Sea of ​​Japan, it doesn’t shine, it is locked in the South and East China Seas, including Japan and South Korea, but you are my plus.
            1. +1
              3 August 2012 12: 25
              The restlessness of the Japanese is purely political. Until extreme nationalists come to power there with a militaristic view, and with the theme - let's return all of ours - everything will be quiet in this direction. The second - well, or the third, depending on how you count - the world economy is war - well, not to hell in the near future. Russia is too good a market. Therefore, screams will be on an ongoing basis - as Spain constantly announces protest notes on Gibraaltar
          2. VAF
            VAF
            +5
            3 August 2012 10: 53
            Quote: Pimply

            What do you think, why did the first C400 divisions be thrown to the Far East, hiding behind the fact that it was necessary to defend themselves against potential DPRK missiles?


            Dear, take a map, from the border of China, retreat 50 km inland and mark the line of defeat at least by the Chinese SRZO (400km)!

            what will you see ?? Let me tell you, almost EVERYTHING falls under the blow of EVERYTHING !!!!

            And this is only for SRZO, but how the Chinese can secretly relocate everything and the absence of any kind of intelligence in our country ... Glory to the "reform" !!!, no conclusion suggests itself ???

            so what about the fact that somewhere they threw it or about the fact that something will someday be ????

            not even funny ???

            This is not criticism (although criticism, of course, where would one go without it), but purely tactics, though now they no longer teach this, and nowhere ... almost !!! am
            1. +6
              3 August 2012 11: 03
              Hi Sergey, why don’t you take into account the presence of a bunch of American planes in Japan, there are plenty of others past China and others. And American cruise missiles, somewhere nearby.
              1. VAF
                VAF
                +3
                3 August 2012 11: 42
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Hi Sergey, why don’t you take into account the presence of a bunch of American planes in Japan


                Sasha welcome, +! Why I do not take it, I just take it, but to myself. So if all this is voiced, then ...

                1. It will be generally ... sad.

                2. And from the endorsements not only a label ... a traitor to the Motherland and a foreign spy can be obtained, and not only will I ask the President for help about "neutralizing" me, but I don't know, maybe they will turn to the UN !!!

                So you too ... more careful ... about American missiles .....

                They will come ... in ... the eighth year ... Mistralki ... and here we will ... all ... show them ... to the Japanese and the Chinese. Well, amer ... naturally !!! fellow (THIS IS SARCASM, BLACK, FROM MORNING drinks )!
                1. +3
                  3 August 2012 12: 08
                  Sergey, welcome! drinks
                  Quote: vaf
                  And not only will I ask the President for help about "neutralizing" me, but I don't even know, maybe they will turn to the UN !!!

                  Let them apply :) To the Commission for the Protection of Animal Rights :) There they will surely be helped :)
                  Quote: vaf
                  They will come ... in ... the eighth year ... Mistralki ... and here we will ... all ... show them ... to the Japanese and the Chinese. Well, amer ... naturally !!!

                  In general, the infrastructure for slightly something aircraft-carrying and rather large ships is great! fellow The only question is whether it was worth buying Mistrali for the sake of someone finally attended to the infrastructure? laughing
                  Still, I have to say that infrastructure (unlike Mistral) will still be useful to us ....
                  1. VAF
                    VAF
                    +4
                    3 August 2012 13: 22
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    The only question is whether it was worth buying Mistrali for the sake of someone finally attended to the infrastructure?


                    Andrey, greetings, +! Golden words, +! And in the article, the author gave good examples of "no basic operation" of ships!

                    And the infrastructure and naval base are needed like air, that's just ..... but what about new bridges and all sorts of other ... mega projects ??? And NA-BUT, but Skolkovo, and something else there ???? ?
                  2. 755962
                    +3
                    3 August 2012 16: 47
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Was it worth buying the Mistral for someone to finally get preoccupied with the infrastructure?

                    Under the helicopter carriers “Mistral” reconstruct the base in the bay of Ulysses
                    Helicopter carriers Mistral will be based in Vladivostok in the Bolshoi Ulysses Bay, which houses one of the bases of the Russian Pacific Fleet, Izvestia reports.

                    To base the helicopter carriers, the mooring front of the base will be reconstructed, a new power station will be built and coastal facilities, including infrastructure, will be updated, a source in the Russian Ministry of Defense told Izvestia.

                    According to a Izvestia source, “the final scope of work will be determined before the end of the year. The decision should be made by Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov. We expect that by March 2013 it will be approved, and by the end of 2014, when the Mistrals enter the fleet, all work will be completed. "

                    http://www.ofizer.ru/board/zhile/pod_vertoletonoscy_mistral_rekonstruirujut_bazu
                    _v_bukhte_bolshoj_uliss / 3-1-0-201
                2. karate
                  0
                  4 August 2012 04: 05
                  Well, these Mistralki will come, what's the point, who will be planted on them when one battalion is left from the marine division.
              2. 0
                3 August 2012 12: 23
                Well, if only because the States can now be attributed to the enemy purely conditionally. They do not strive for territorial conquests, and their potential hostilities against Russia is such an unlikely theory. Like the Japanese. But the Chinese are now quite aggressive in this regard. Start with smaller opponents, and very successfully.
            2. +1
              3 August 2012 15: 59
              What are 400km for MLRS? This is OTRK.
              Well, how the Chinese can secretly relocate everything and the lack of any types of intelligence in our country ... Glory to the "reform" !!!, no conclusion suggests itself ???
              Et how? Or do you think the Chinese army can immediately go on the offensive without a period of preparation? You yourself are not funny.
              1. VAF
                VAF
                +4
                3 August 2012 17: 22
                Quote: leon-iv
                What are 400km for MLRS? This is OTRK.


                Oh how I do not like unprofessionalism in military affairs .. scary ... am



                More than 15 years ago, the Chinese defense industry decided to create an alternative to nuclear potential.
                Already in 2004, the PLA adopted the WS-2D system, designed and developed by Sichuan Aerospace Industries, one of the country's leading rocket technology manufacturers.

                The undoubted advantage of this installation for the Chinese was that its firing range was about 400 km.

                This could mean only one thing: why flaunt your nuclear weapons, which acted like a bullfighter's rag on a bull, if you can deploy several MLRS divisions on the strait coast ?????

                Quote: leon-iv
                Et how? Or do you think the Chinese army can immediately go on the offensive without a period of preparation?


                Well, to convince you of this, you need to go to China or at least carefully read military sources of information, such as ours .... when we lay down, we started flying to WWII and as many as 20 people ... you will not see anywhere !!!

                But the "reform" according to Taburetkin, even more so !!!

                Look at the photo ....



                Do not know. why did China sharply increase the production of amphibious tanks ???
                And the Navy, the submarine fleet, aviation, etc. etc.????

                Well, about the missiles you mentioned, generally speaking there will not be enough time and place!

                I understand that for a person who is not directly connected with the army (I mean education (it’s hard to understand, but at least take satellite maps and see which roads and in what direction they have been built for the last 5 years and what load they can withstand!

                I hope you will understand everything yourself, but if not, then ... I can’t help with anything! soldier
            3. +1
              3 August 2012 21: 35
              What is it that they have for MLRS such with a range of 400 km? Even if they had it, they are not able to deliver high-precision strikes at such a range. The SRRS is generally not intended for such strikes.
              1. VAF
                VAF
                +7
                3 August 2012 23: 25
                Quote: patsantre
                What is it that they have for MLRS such with a range of 400 km? Even if they had it, they are not able to deliver high-precision strikes at such a range. The SRRS is generally not intended for such strikes.


                Why it was, they exist and are now being improved, and I’ll allow myself to note that the SZRZ system is designed to defeat SQUARE OBJECTIVES, which include air bases, naval bases, air defense systems, etc.

                And as a specialist, in the past I’ll say that warheads with KMGU undermining above the air base, especially ours, where everything according to Taburetkinski under the ruler in the ceremonial formation (just like in 41) will do so many things. that ... no plane will take off ....

                I remind you that the plane is not a tank and makes its way through the ball, since aluminum and composite are not armor !!!

                Explained intelligibly? And no offense, okay? soldier
                1. 0
                  4 August 2012 11: 10
                  There is another side to this question.
                  1) WS-2D - at its cost falls into the category of OTRK.
                  2) Something does not converge here:
                  WS-2D (length 8.1m, caliber 425, warhead 200kg, range 400km)
                  WS-2 (length 7.15m, caliber 400, warhead 200kg, range 200)
                2. 0
                  10 August 2012 18: 36
                  Yes, what insults ...)
            4. 0
              5 August 2012 13: 42
              why China fight with us, answer yourself this question. All that he needs, he can buy from us for money, and this is much cheaper than war. and do not forget China’s nuclear potential is incomparable with ours. erase from the face of the earth and more than a dozen times. and another argument is that no one will allow China to become stronger due to the unlimited natural resources of RUSSIA.
              while we trade with China, there will be no war with them.
              1. -1
                5 August 2012 16: 05
                If only because no one in the Far East will give him de jure for money - and de facto. And according to all Chinese textbooks, he is the land of China.
          3. 0
            5 August 2012 13: 36
            China first let Taipei return to itself.
            1. -1
              5 August 2012 16: 05
              And they almost returned. They don’t make sense there is fussing - Taiwan is increasingly dependent on China.
        5. +1
          3 August 2012 10: 35
          dreamer:
          Well, one of the Mistral may be based in the Black Sea.
        6. VAF
          VAF
          +5
          3 August 2012 10: 46
          Quote: dreamer
          First, our rulers made a "trampled fit" of France,


          Lesha, good afternoon and +! In everything !!!! drinks

          I especially liked ... quote .... "...... The Mistrals will sail to Russia with all the technological and navigation equipment, including the SENIT-9 combat information and control system, perhaps the most valuable element in the prisoner between France and Russia in a deal. In this case, the weapons and helicopters on the ships will be Russian-made. It is planned that both the 2 French-built Mistrals and the ships built in our country will receive the most modern Russian weapons systems, including launchers for supersonic cruise missiles. as well as the latest anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense systems. Anti-submarine defense systems will also be installed on the ship. "????????

          They no longer know how to "justify", such ... "purchase" ..... still, Poplar and Yarsa should be placed on these barges and in general ... "there will be no price" you can even shoot from "a place on the bank" .. ... fellow

          Well, about the "super-shock" power, in the face of 8 "Ka-52 attack helicopters" and 8 transport amphibious assault helicopters (a company of airborne assault or marines ". These are generally strengths !!! (in no case I beg the dignity and military power of the brothers in vests) !!! drinks
          1. +3
            3 August 2012 12: 12
            Quote: vaf
            It is planned that both French-built Mistrals and ships built in our country will receive the most modern Russian weapons systems, including launchers for supersonic cruise missiles, as well as the latest anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense systems. Will be installed on the ship and anti-submarine defense systems. "????????

            Pancake. Well, here even such an inveterate aptimist like me is hard to find something positive. feel
            1. VAF
              VAF
              +2
              3 August 2012 13: 24
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              here it’s even hard for such an inveterate aptimist like me to find something positive.


              Well, then .... wink not .. "we slurp soup" ... drinks +!
          2. 0
            3 August 2012 12: 27
            In fact, properly applied is real power.
        7. 0
          3 August 2012 21: 12
          Don’t tell me to scare Mishik with the Mistrals - I beg you, he’s not worth it to spend such money.
      2. lotus04
        0
        4 August 2012 07: 55
        Quote: alauda1038
        besides 3 billion money is not big


        Maybe you dear, help financially.
        And then in the neighboring village there is no gas, let them conduct it for the money.
    2. +1
      3 August 2012 09: 15
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      First of all, TOFu is needed.

      I apologize. If I am not mistaken, Mistrals are helicopter aircraft-carrying cruisers. What is the point of using them against the AUG of Japan and the USA in the Pacific Ocean. I mean that they are not very effective against military fighters.
      1. +2
        3 August 2012 10: 14
        The Mistral is an amphibious assault helicopter carrier. The Self-Defense Forces of Japan are armed with 2 "destroyer-helicopter carriers" ... Also something similar.

        Helicopters and aircraft with vertical and short take-off and landing of types AV-8B "Harrier II" and F-35 "Lightning II" can be based on a Japanese ship (also called a light aircraft carrier). It is technically possible to equip the ship with a bow springboard to increase the combat load of aircraft.
        The main task of the ship is anti-submarine defense, as well as the flagship function.
        The ship is capable of carrying up to 11 helicopters, it is equipped with a vertical launch launcher for Mk41 missiles in 16 cells (4 of which are occupied by 16 ESSM missiles, and the remaining 12 have ASROC anti-submarine missiles) and a Phalanx short-range anti-aircraft artillery. The basis of the ship’s control system is ATECS BIUS and FCS-3 radar with headlight

        "Mistral" carries 16 heavy helicopters or 32 light helicopters, about the armament is not clear. They will arm them with something, of course, but without fanaticism.
        1. +1
          3 August 2012 10: 25
          To be honest, without fanaticism - and the glory of Gd. Because the initial ideas were just scary.
        2. 77bor1973
          0
          3 August 2012 11: 49
          Previously, our Mistrals will have 4 Gibka complexes and 2-4 AK-630 complexes
        3. karate
          0
          5 August 2012 09: 09
          Something ... forty will put 10 pieces, salute the winners.
          1. DIMS
            0
            5 August 2012 09: 18
            We salute third ZISami. 76 mm
      2. +3
        3 August 2012 10: 15
        You are missing China. This is the time.

        Two - the concept of aircraft-carrying cruisers is a controversial thing, which the Russian Navy has also talked about more than once.

        A Mistral is the lead ship of an amphibious assault force, capable of either changing the situation on a particular sector of the front, or autonomously (as part of a group, naturally) representing a force vector. OK? There is China, which is actively building up its troops, and which will obviously be fighting with someone in the near future for the territory.

        India, too, understands this very well, and reflected it in the national doctrine. The Philippines, Vietnam, etc. What does Japan and the States have to do with it? Gibraaltar over 300 years sits under England, and the Spaniards constantly remind him that he them - and nothing.
        1. +6
          3 August 2012 11: 05
          Quote: Pimply
          You are missing China. This is the time.


          In vain you are so afraid of whales; they will not climb into Russia. There’s nothing to climb on and the answer is too harsh. China in general can neither now but in the foreseeable future fight with either Russia or the United States. Ask why I say so, I will answer you with ease.
          With all its crowdedness, China has a big weak link, a territory. The majority of the titular population lives in a rather narrow zone of the coast, this territory is very vulnerable due to the large crowding of the population for nuclear weapons. One blow of the small pain of the existing strategic potential, even the Russian Federation, is enough for the main industrial and economic regions of China to turn into a desert. And the rest of the territory is unsuitable or populated not by the Chinese population, who will gladly cut out the latter using such a ball. The second for the attack on the Russian Federation in China, in fact, only two directions are those along which the Soviet troops attacked in 1945, and there it is still necessary to go that, given the terrain, it’s complete. Third, China simply stupidly has no experience in planning such operations, which is also not enough important. Fourth logistics and intelligence, how do you imagine preparing an invasion force without being burnt? So in vain worry China is cheaper to buy what it needs. And expand the military expansion to the south, where they will not give ears a vigorous bomb.
          1. -2
            3 August 2012 12: 31
            Respected. NF is not a panacea. It is an extreme measure. Firstly, because the Chinese have it too. And a blow to the coastal zones must still be inflicted, as well as bring down the otvetka. Will Russian missile defense systems be capable of this? You have to understand that they don’t need all of Russia. They will cost the Far East or part of it. And not now, but years through 10-20. But they are actively preparing for this. Now they are resolving by force small territorial disputes with the Philippines, for example. There is a small story with the island’s self-capture. They have a bunch of territorial claims against Vietnam, India, etc. And to Russia, it’s just such a small entry in Chinese textbooks that this is originally Chinese territory.
          2. 0
            3 August 2012 22: 40
            Sakhalininsk,
            totally agree with you. In addition to all of the above, an attack on Russia will be a strategic mistake for China. China can not only cease to exist as a state. education, but even if he wins, he will lose his last strong ally in the fight against the United States. This will be guaranteed death for them.
            Russia and China are now in the same boat in the struggle for their right to be sovereign states.
            There is a joke: "What will the war with China turn out to be for the United States? 30 million dead Russians."
            Divide and Conquer is an excellent algorithm for conquering world domination.
            Pimply, do not indulge them. wink
        2. +3
          3 August 2012 11: 10
          Quote: Pimply
          You are missing China. This time

          Pimpled, but the acre of China has other applicants, what is not at all? China currently has similar problems with Russia. Strengthening the American group in the Asia-Pacific region, against whom the amers are deploying forces in Asia, is by no means the Republic of Mazambique. In this case, China cannot take risks and start a war against Russia, in which case China will be left face to face with NATO and the amers at their head.
          1. -1
            3 August 2012 12: 40
            And besides the Chinese - who? Do you see real opponents? Turkey - but this is only in the future if they finally have a roof on the neo-Ottoman theme will go. USA - Russia is not so strong as to intervene in the zone of national interests of the USA, and at this stage there are more collaborative ties building up, the remaining topics are more rhetoric.

            And China is a real potential adversary. Because China needs development, they themselves understand that within the current borders they are not residents, otherwise they will be in decline. That is why everyone in this region is arming themselves actively.
        3. 755962
          +4
          3 August 2012 11: 23
          Quote: Pimply
          the concept of aircraft-carrying cruisers is a controversial thing

          Hi Eugene! That's right, but the Japanese didn’t bother with their Hyuga-type helicopter destroyers. But it’s a very formidable force. A light aircraft carrier or helicopter carrier, or even a helicopter destroyer, all this can be said about ships of the Huga class. Although the standard displacement for ships of this class is 13 tons, and the length is 900 meters, the new ship will have a displacement of just over 197 thousand tons, and it will have a length of 19 meters. Roughly replenish the ranks of the Japanese Navy in 248. The cost of the new project is a little over one billion dollars. Ripe for the construction of this ship in Japan in time for the final stage of construction of the Chinese aircraft carrier. The Chinese are building an aircraft carrier with a length of 2015 meters and 320 fighter aircraft on board, while the Heisei 50 is about to install modern American-made weapons and control systems. According to unofficial data, the ship will be provided with an 22-container SeaRAM Mk-15 Mod 31 anti-aircraft missile system, from the American firm Reiteon. Today, only American ships, such as the LCS-11, have SAM data. Japan made a decision to build light aircraft carriers for helicopters a long time ago, and although such ships are considered less reliable protection than attack aircraft carriers, the decision to build the newest destroyer - a helicopter carrier is connected, first of all, with the buildup of a submarine fleet by China. Basically, anti-submarine defense helicopters will be based on the Heisei 2. And here an even more severe machine is approaching.
          The purpose of the light aircraft carrier 22DDH "Heisei 22"
          Ships of this class were planned as a replacement for destroyers - Haruna class helicopter carriers. The mission of Heisei 22 is to protect and defend various types of ship formations, confront the enemy’s submarine forces, and the flagship. The ship is capable of moving 4 thousand paratroopers and about 50 trucks to the landing site. The ship’s design is called the 19000t Destroyer. Probably will receive board number DDH-183.Here, such projects can be treated with respect. With respect. hi
          1. +3
            3 August 2012 11: 29
            755962, Yapy do not call their pelvis AB because of restrictions imposed by the results of the Second World War. and their army is called the Self-Defense Forces - for the same reason. This is me to the fact that the name destroyer-helicopter carrier is a legal incident.
            1. iwanniegrozny
              +2
              3 August 2012 12: 59
              The same is the reason for the "aircraft-carrying cruisers" in the USSR, which were built on the Black Sea, and according to the 1936 convention in Montreux, aircraft carriers could not pass through the Bosphorus and Dardanelles
            2. 755962
              +2
              3 August 2012 16: 49
              Quote: dmitreach
              Yapy do not call their pelvis AB because of restrictions imposed following the Second World War

              The essence of the matter does not change ...
          2. +4
            3 August 2012 12: 15
            Nothing-nothing - you will see how in 10 years Japan will lay down some "Heavy destroyers-helicopter carriers" Nuclear, 60 thousand in weight, with four to five dozen aircraft on board.
            1. +1
              3 August 2012 12: 24
              that's for sure. if the Shogun is America, bless.
          3. 0
            3 August 2012 12: 34
            The Japanese are not trying to shove everything that is possible on him - as they tried to do with Mistral, and as they did with Kuzya. And they did it in such a way that in the end, all the same, some of the systems don't work.
      3. VAF
        VAF
        +4
        3 August 2012 10: 55
        Quote: Manager
        What is the point of using them against the AUG of Japan and the USA in the Pacific Ocean. I mean that they are not very effective against military fighters.


        Maxim, only +! Not just not effective, but ... very big targets !!!
    3. VAF
      VAF
      +4
      3 August 2012 10: 40
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      and the fact that these ships are needed first and foremost is the Pacific Fleet.


      I dare to ask, why is it in the first place precisely to Pacific Fleet and what is clear because of territorial disputes, or rather claims from Japan ???

      Maybe after the holiday .. "I am not entering" yet, so do not blame me for the question? recourse
      1. dreamer
        +3
        3 August 2012 10: 45
        Quote: vaf
        I dare to ask, why is it in the first place precisely to Pacific Fleet and what is clear because of territorial disputes, or rather claims from Japan ???

        Seryozha, hello! You shouldn't ask such provocative questions to the "Japanese conquerors" and "Chinese punishers" laughing It is impossible to interfere in the construction of plans for the use of super-videomega vessels with a super-super-control system that will show the Chinese their place in the world and previously destroy Japan's coastal defense and aviation with just one regiment in 2 hours and capture Japan wassat
        1. VAF
          VAF
          +1
          3 August 2012 11: 47
          Quote: dreamer
          You shouldn't ask such provocative questions to the "Japanese conquerors" and "Chinese punishers"


          Lyosha, they taught military art in this way ... in this way, both at school and in akamedi, though there is no longer either one ... maybe that's why there are no questions ... are the same inconvenient ??? lol


          Quote: dreamer
          in just one regiment in 2 hours will capture Japan


          It can be seen them "laurels" Pasha-Mercedes .. they do not give anything !!! lol
    4. Yoshkin Kot
      +4
      3 August 2012 11: 14
      By the way, for the mention of a temple in decent society, the face is beaten
      1. +1
        3 August 2012 11: 17
        Oh yeah! that still tovarzch
      2. VAF
        VAF
        +2
        3 August 2012 11: 45
        Quote: Yoshkin Cat

        By the way, for the mention of a temple in decent society, the face is beaten


        That would be a real opportunity. I would shake hands. and a bottle of Derbent would be crushed, after yesterday it still remained .... everything was not mastered .... drinks +! soldier
    5. Che
      Che
      +1
      6 August 2012 08: 11
      Sakhalininsk,
      We must do our weapons ourselves, and so depend on the west of our eternal enemy.
  2. KOMOd Shpakov
    -7
    3 August 2012 08: 23
    In addition to conventional weapons, it would still be very useful to shove nuclear weapons onto it.
    1. -5
      3 August 2012 08: 27
      Complexes are so shove
      1. +4
        3 August 2012 10: 15
        And the guns from the old Soviet battleships ... what if such a booze went ...
        1. 0
          4 August 2012 07: 50
          8-12 pieces of what-thread from discharge 305/52 in open deck installations with manual supply of ammunition wassat laughing
    2. 0
      3 August 2012 10: 13
      and this is not a question at all. Putting a lionfish with a nuclear warhead or a conventional warhead from the technical side makes no difference, since they are being developed in both versions. Therefore, only the armed men will know what is on the Mistrals.
    3. 0
      3 August 2012 10: 16
      Does that make any sense?
    4. +2
      3 August 2012 11: 25
      And also a pack of Granites, and Basalts with Bramos, so that vicious enemies from the vidon laughed with laughter laughing
  3. 0
    3 August 2012 08: 36
    From a design point of view, it will be necessary to adjust the seats for the installation of Russian weapons systems and equipment. Which in turn will take more than one day and a week.
  4. 0
    3 August 2012 08: 40
    Well I do not know. Do we really need such costs for a similar type of ship ?! With the same money, it would be possible to begin the production of another aircraft carrier cruiser. In any case, it is more universal in performing combat missions than a helicopter carrier. Of course, the government knows better, but it would be better if the same money were used for something more necessary for the fleet
    1. +7
      3 August 2012 09: 05
      So the war of 08.08.08 showed that there are not enough such ships, in such conflicts it is too much to use "Moscow" and "Kuznetsov", and "Mistral" is just right.
    2. +3
      3 August 2012 09: 07
      What can I say now ... It’s already paid ... So that's all.
      1. +4
        3 August 2012 10: 03
        It has long been said that these staff troughs are not so necessary for us. Now again invest the loot. Yes, they will come out to us gold, if they were at least the best in the world, so there’s no mistake here, the stability is fig, the driving properties are not the best, and the filling is flawed. To bring such an landing party to a place, he needs protection as for an aircraft carrier.
        1. +5
          3 August 2012 10: 20
          Yes. And this is precisely his strength. The Soviet concept suggested that the ships are completely autonomous. However, this reduced the potential of the group as a whole, since they were initially expected for relatively short outputs, and were not considered as a general shock group. At the same time, the AUG group could detect and destroy the enemy 1000 kilometers away, having 100000 km of autonomous range. Each ship in such a group multiplies its capabilities, acting as part of a single strike group.

          So with Mistral - this is, first of all, the command center of the landing group.
          1. +1
            3 August 2012 10: 28
            Quote: Pimply
            So with Mistral - this is, first of all, the command center of the landing group

            Oh well. But why do we need all the troughs in one place? or that we have an airborne group only in the Pacific Fleet?
            1. +1
              3 August 2012 10: 32
              Why all. Two. Where the greatest probability of hostilities. There is no need near Georgia - there are powerful land bases there already. But China ...
              1. +2
                3 August 2012 10: 51
                Quote: Pimply
                But China ...


                Are you going to fight with China? belay
                1. dreamer
                  +4
                  3 August 2012 10: 53
                  Quote: Banshee
                  Are you going to fight with China?

                  Pimpled sleeps and sees how Russia and China begin to fight with each other. Do not stop a person from dreaming ... laughing
                  1. +7
                    3 August 2012 11: 15
                    Quote: dreamer
                    how Russia and China begin to fight each other.

                    Here's why I don't know what In short, the warrior with China will begin, at least you warn me, otherwise I’m sitting two blocks from the border and are not up to date. A-A-A-A it's all late, the Chinese women are already storming my porch, make me a communist laughing
                    1. dreamer
                      +6
                      3 August 2012 11: 18
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      A-A-A-A it's all late, the Chinese women are already storming my porch, make me a communist

                      Sasha, learn to mimic! wassat A little Chinese in the entrance, then the eyes are slit and the skin turns yellow (like a chameleon) and you are your own among strangers laughing
                    2. +1
                      3 August 2012 12: 45
                      I said what will it be today? Or tomorrow? But the day after tomorrow - it is quite possible.

                      What do you think is the reason that India recently introduced its second adversary, China, into its military doctrine?
                      Why is Vietnam making a sharp rapprochement with the United States, and is also actively arming itself?
                      Why are the Japanese trying so hard to get the latest fighters, and are actively arming the fleet?
                      Why are Australians who, in terms of living standards, Europe, unlike the latter, intend not to cut back, but to increase the military budget by 3% annually?
                      Why are the Philippines actively looking for ways to strengthen aviation?

                      Ask yourself this question, and in parallel - what is the budget of the armed forces of the PRC, and how much has it increased this year?
                      1. 755962
                        +1
                        3 August 2012 16: 30
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Why are Australians who, in terms of living standards, Europe, unlike the latter, intend not to cut back, but to increase the military budget by 3% annually?

                        Well, if Australia began to arm itself, write lost ......
                      2. -1
                        3 August 2012 17: 37
                        As it were, 8).
                  2. 0
                    3 August 2012 12: 41
                    Well no. I would dream that it was not.
              2. +3
                3 August 2012 11: 12
                With China, so far we have a bad but friendship. Especially since we still have friends against whom. And to keep them there is unprofitable for reasons as above correctly noted max-02215 they easily block the exit to the ocean from there.
                1. +2
                  3 August 2012 12: 47
                  Not a friendship. Do not confuse business relations - and friendship. There was such a friendship with Germany too. Moreover, two years before the war. Engineers traveled, there was active trade, internship of German officers in the Red Army - and so on.
        2. 0
          3 August 2012 16: 03
          There is an opinion that VERY wanted Juan of Spain but the USA very much opposed It. And then the contract with STX also got out and everything became much more clear
  5. +2
    3 August 2012 08: 42
    I do not understand. Have designers and shipbuilding factories ended in Russia?
    1. +7
      3 August 2012 09: 09
      From a culman to launching it takes a very long way and lasts for dozens of years, and here the finished project, verified afloat, France also does 2, 2 will be done by Russia (metal cutting has begun), so that soon 4. Not only that our shipyards are loaded to capacity with other orders - corvettes, etc., which the fleet and the country need no less.
      1. pavlo007
        -5
        3 August 2012 10: 02
        Oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!
        Our shipyards are loaded to the eyeballs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        The orderlies in the studio !!! Acute overdose of Putin's plan !!!!
        1. +3
          3 August 2012 10: 30
          Be patient, son, now an ambulance will come and heal you, just do not quarrel with the orderlies, they will put a shirt on you with long sleeves.
          1. pavlo007
            +1
            3 August 2012 13: 52
            But you really can’t be cured .... Putin’s plan has completely swallowed himself. More careful with psychoactive substances, even if they are in the form of brochures.
            1. +3
              3 August 2012 13: 57
              Is Putin's plan like "something"?
  6. pavlo007
    0
    3 August 2012 08: 55
    Of course, why do we need to load our design bureaus with work? Why raise and run the Ivan-Tarava project? Just shine! Domestic shipyards stand and fall apart without orders, and at the same time ships are purchased from NATO countries.
    Yes, and the idea of ​​cramming into an amphibious assault ship of the RCC, a long-range air defense system in the company in the company with anti-submarine missile torpedoes is absolutely touching. Is it a general landing ship or what is planned then? For amers, the Aviks do not shy away from walking only with short-range missile and air defense systems, though in the company with security. From this I conclude that these will be the last and only ships in our fleet.
    Again they want to make nonsense like "Admiral Kuznetsov" - without a catapult, which allows to lift attack aircraft with full combat load in any wind, but with the "Granit" anti-ship missile system.
    Yes, in St. Petersburg, on the embankment, there are the towers of the main battalion of the cruiser "Kirov", and at the Rzhev test range, the gun of the main battleships of the "Soviet Union" type is rusting. Maybe we'll shove them in, eh? Well, like a child who draws the third tier of towers onto his boat (although the Amry at the beginning of the 20th century managed to build an EBR with two-tier GK towers - just like in children's pictures :))

    Glory to Putin! Glory to Russia! Russia is a great country!

    PS Putinoids start !!!
    1. +3
      3 August 2012 09: 09
      Quote: pavlo007
      Again they want to make nonsense like "Admiral Kuznetsov" - without a catapult, which allows to lift attack aircraft with full combat load in any wind, but with the "Granit" anti-ship missile system.


      I agree that an aircraft carrier without a catapult is somewhat weak, but Granites ... We are not greedy, so let them be. What if they come in handy?
      1. pavlo007
        +2
        3 August 2012 09: 45
        The Americans also thought that the 203 mm GK guns on Lexington would be useful.
        Do you remember the joke about the Estonian and the dead cat? "Do not guess andilaas"
        1. +2
          3 August 2012 10: 35
          Well yes. But still, there is a difference between a large-caliber artillery gun and Granite. In favor of "Granite".
          1. pavlo007
            0
            3 August 2012 13: 56
            Philosophy has not changed. Either build an Aircraft Carrier or a missile cruiser. But if you mix, you get a bad missile cruiser with ersatzaviakrylom.
            The whole world has already passed, but other people's polished rake does not suit us.
            It can also be attributed to the Oslyabya type EDB.

            The prior art is changing, but the laws of philosophy are not. That is why future candidates of sciences, including the military, pass the candidate minimum in philosophy.
    2. +6
      3 August 2012 10: 23
      Then, that the Mistral was built using other technologies and could be built by the 2014 year, and the Russian shipyards are packed with orders, and they constantly give ships behind schedule.
    3. +4
      3 August 2012 11: 44
      pavlo 007
      Eck thee brother brings. As for the shipyards, you're clearly out of the picture. They do not "perish in agony," as they seem, but they even plow in full. Worse, something else is that they are plowing for their uncle, arming foreign fleets, and not their own. But this is another problem, personnel. Unfortunately, we do not have a man of Gorshkov's level in the fleet today who could break through the decisions the fleet needs. And there is no main thing - a doctrine, a clear understanding of what kind of fleet the country needs. Hence all the troubles and shyness. Either it is oceanic, or littoral, or it is generally unknown which one. That is why the designer was left without "work" (here I agree with you), because it is not clear what to "create". This is where the second Gorshkov is needed, since such a task is beyond the minds of Taburetkin. Here the commodity specialist cannot cope, it is high time to change. And why the supreme power does not do this, this is another question, to fill in. And in this light, all this idiot with the Mistrals, in my opinion, is a smokescreen to distract from the main thing - the authorities' lack of a perspective vision of the role and tasks of the fleet.
      And you’re all about small things, to the Putinists. Do you think Nemtsov and the company il Navalny with a friend Nikitka would attend to the problems of the country and the fleet? Yes, to hell here. These b would have plundered the country completely, dragging it into their pockets. Especially this creature Nemtsov, we had seen enough of him when he was our governor. The loop cries like that.
      1. pavlo007
        0
        3 August 2012 14: 09
        I already wrote a lot about this and repeated laziness. for some reason, you Putinoids constantly say that if you are not for this great miracle, then you are for dog, Nemtsov or bulk. Why repeat what you directly pour into the head from the TV? I equally despise Putin and Nemtsov and bulk and neobolshevik Udaltsov. As soon as they (God forbid) seize upon power, they will turn into putinoids. They are not upset that Putin is doing with the country, but they are not doing it. I hope I clearly understood?
        And the fact that they plunder the country is yes, no questions asked. The horror is that the current mafia gang, headed by Putin, who do nothing to bring the country out of the crisis, will finish off the country, but they are engaged in dopilivaniyu and pumping up nedokachennggo and nedopilnogo.
        Alas, all this is not only my reasoning, but a generalization of concrete production and organizational work experience.

        If this happens, there will be a maximum of three or four years to the end of our country, and then a terrible catastrophe awaits us.
        The analogies are alas direct. Pukin and his gang are reminiscent of a gorbipolitbyuro, and from below, a pseudo-democratic shobla like bulk and others begins to grow up. It doesn’t resemble the 88th year (sorry, but I don’t know how old you are). The whole picture is perfectly complemented by a frostbitten and unprincipled Komsomol asset, an analogue of which hangs out on Seliger.
        You're not scared, I'm personally scared. I have already lost one country.
        It's not as flat as you see it

        And so, you wrote correctly, but I meant the potential power of the shipyards, and yes, with three welders to the plant, we really work at the limit of the possible.
        1. MURANO
          +1
          3 August 2012 14: 48
          Quote: pavlo007
          I equally despise Putin and Nemtsov and bulk and neobolshevik Udaltsov. As soon as they (God forbid) seize upon power, they will turn into putinoids. They are not upset that Putin is doing with the country, but they are not doing it. I hope I clearly understood?

          You know, people who see the bad in others are also, to put it mildly, "not very." People always see in others what is in them.
          Quote: pavlo007
          I have already lost one country.

          And would you like to bring her back?
          Quote: pavlo007
          It's not so flat

          And not so convex, round. Often everything is much simpler than it seems.
          1. pavlo007
            +1
            3 August 2012 16: 28
            Yes, I would very much like to return OUR states, which had been torn apart in the form of such ideologists as Suslov and betrayed by a hunchback.
            I'm sorry, but I won't even start arguing about the state of Ukraine and the very fact of its "existence". If a person calls himself "Ukrainian" by nationality, then please forgive me, he is a traitor to his Motherland and his place is at the wall, or in prison. There is no such thing as Ukraine and Ukrainian, there is a sabotage Polish-Bolshevik project, which was implemented consistently with English and then with German money and implemented, as it is not symbolic, by the decayed Soviet party nomenklatura, which wished to have, albeit small, but their own feeders.

            And do not complain to admins about inciting ethnic hatred. I talked about a showdown inside our Russian people, a part of which, if you are not disgusted, you are.
            Among my relatives there are immigrants from southern Russia, which you call Ukraine.

            PS The Ukrainian history textbook was brought to me, you can not retell it.
            PPS Yes, if I misunderstood you, then immediately apologize. Just recently I talked with the Svidomo Ukrainian, who used to teach the history of the CPSU, but now cries at the sight of a portrait of Stepan Bandera and says that the history of the CPSU was always taught with disgust and waited in the shower for the release of his tender Svidomo of the Ukrainian soul.
            1. MURANO
              +2
              3 August 2012 21: 31
              Quote: pavlo007
              The Ukrainian history textbook was brought to me, you can not retell it.

              I have a similar attitude towards him.
              Quote: pavlo007
              I talked about a showdown inside our Russian people, a part of which, if you are not disgusted, you are.

              If it’s me, I haven’t stated it anywhere.
              I took the oath of the USSR, studied at VVMUPP and served on the submarine of the SF. Although there were options to stay in Ukraine. But for me it was unacceptable.
  7. anchonsha
    +1
    3 August 2012 08: 56
    Mr. Levashov is constantly trying to oppose the current government, but he somehow succeeds. The worldview of Soviet man and even attempts to denigrate the actions of Minister of Defense Serdyukov are not enough to look forward. Yes, we need a new fleet, and therefore we need new technologies, and you can only buy them, because a deal was made to acquire the Mistrals. Mistakes and shortcomings are possible, but if you whine and do nothing, then we will certainly remain in purely Soviet times. It was a good time, but it already was and remained beyond the horizon. And now-FORWARD RUSSIA TO NEW VICTORIES !!!
    1. +10
      3 August 2012 09: 14
      Quote: anchonsha
      attempts to denigrate the actions of Minister of Defense Serdyukov


      Why blacken it? He himself copes well ...

      Quote: anchonsha
      Yes, we need a new fleet, and therefore we need new technologies, and you can only buy them


      We need a new fleet. So now, do you have to buy technology for the production of aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines? Who will sell? USA? I beg you, let’s give a hooah.

      Quote: anchonsha
      if you whine and do nothing, then we will certainly remain in purely Soviet times.


      Well, for starters, you compare the Soviet fleet and the Russian fleet, and then that ... draw conclusions like that. The current fleet at 90% consists of ships built in the USSR, if that.

      According to the data: A. S. Pavlov gives the following data on the composition of the USSR Navy at the end of the 1980-s: 64 nuclear and 15 diesel submarines with ballistic missiles, 79 submarines with cruise missiles (including 63 nuclear), 80 multipurpose torpedo nuclear submarines (all submarine data for January 1 1989 of the year), four aircraft carriers, 96 cruisers, destroyers and missile frigates, 174 patrol and small anti-submarine ships, 623 boats and minesweepers, 107 landing ships and boats. Total 1380 warships (not counting auxiliary ships), 1142 warships (all data on surface ships on July 1 1988 of the year).
      At 1991, the year at the shipbuilding enterprises of the USSR was built: two aircraft carriers (including one nuclear), 11 nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles, 18 multipurpose nuclear submarines, seven diesel submarines, two missile cruisers (including one nuclear), 10 destroyers and large anti-submarine ships.

      This is briefly about the Soviet era.

      And here is another piece of equipment: http://yablor.ru/blogs/pogibshiy-flot-sssr/588318
      1. pavlo007
        +2
        3 August 2012 09: 48
        It’s even strange ... A person has a high rating on this site, but he says smart things. + from me :)
        1. +5
          3 August 2012 10: 00
          Well, thanks ... I don’t even know if it’s a compliment or how ... And my rating is not big, especially considering how much I am here. And rating - nifiga is not an indicator of the mind (from my point of view). There are a lot of smart people with a huge rating, who did not get it because of a scream.
          1. pavlo007
            +6
            3 August 2012 14: 13
            Well, according to my observations, 90 percent of the local public are pseudo upatriotists who are ecstatic and are ready to organize (in Moscow) a landing operation in Alaska after launching by a crane of another rook.
            1. VAF
              VAF
              +3
              3 August 2012 15: 04
              Quote: pavlo007

              Well, according to my observations, 90 percent of the local public are pseudo urapatriots


              Well, it’s you, dear, very cool bent ..... so 10-15%, well, doubting 20%, children 25%, well, and the rest of the people are all healthy and even very, +! soldier
        2. VAF
          VAF
          +6
          3 August 2012 15: 01
          Quote: pavlo007
          A person has a high rating on this site, but says smart things.


          What is surprising about this? If a person has a high rating. then he earned it only with an urryantem and a pat on the bootleg ???

          I have already been orange and swamp and prosralipolymer and a traitor to the motherland and a foreign spy ... did they have more fantasies? and, yes, I forgot .. they were going to write a letter to Putin, so to speak ... to liquidate as a class!

          So what about the fact that who has big stars on uniform means all the stools ???

          It’s you who are respected in vain, here’s Lyosha from the marshal to the private and .. again to the marshals through ... well, quite a bit of time and ... I dare to assure you ... no oryayayaya and good news .... all the facts and analytics!

          And there are a lot of such !!! So you +! drinks
          1. pavlo007
            +7
            3 August 2012 15: 09
            It's just funny when you start to point out even the technical flaws of our technology (what’s the matter here? Any technology has its advantages and disadvantages), then a bunch of patriots appear, screaming that you sold your Motherland and betrayed the great leader :)
            If I do not like it and I consider it nonsense to place anything on the aircraft carriers other than weapons of near self-defense on aircraft carriers and UDC, then I am a traitor to the Motherland. Very interesting logic for some ...
            1. MURANO
              +3
              3 August 2012 15: 16
              Quote: pavlo007
              I consider it nonsense to place anything on the aircraft carriers other than weapons of near self-defense on aircraft carriers and UDC, then I am a traitor to the Motherland. Very interesting logic for some ...

              This is not logic, it is a lack of knowledge. Do not pay attention.
            2. 755962
              +3
              3 August 2012 16: 38
              Quote: pavlo007
              If I do not like and I consider nonsense

              It’s nice to see on the site adequate and sensible people who are not afraid, despite the rating, to express their opinion. From me to you personally +++++++ Do not be afraid to criticize. "DU CHOC DES OPINIONS JAILLIT LA VERITÉ"
            3. VAF
              VAF
              +1
              3 August 2012 17: 30
              Quote: pavlo007
              I’m a traitor to the motherland. Very interesting logic for some ...


              This is not logic, this is their strategy .... "whoever is not with them is against them" !!!

              Here is just another regular Super-Duper "crashed into Sheremetyevo-1 due to the failure of sealing systems ... with passengers .... so what ... fuck with them with these passengers ... they said that Super-Duper this is a national project to rescue the aircraft industry ... so .. light ... and no nails !!! am
              1. dreamer
                +4
                3 August 2012 17: 33
                Quote: vaf
                Here is just another regular Super-Duper "crashed into Sheremetyevo-1 due to failure of sealing systems ... with passengers ...


                Seryozha, everything turned out even more fun there

                In this case, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft CJSC, which produces SSJ 100 aircraft, reported that there was no depressurization of the cabin... "The plane landed in normal mode," - quoted by the company RIA Novosti.

                wink
                Well, you can’t blame the depressurization of the cabin for the crew, but you might think that the stewardess opened the hatch by the air and forgot to close it, because the creators and the liner are ideal laughing
              2. 0
                3 August 2012 17: 41
                RA-89003, Flight SU-1191 Kazan - Moscow-Sheremetyevo
                Kazan. August 3rd. INTERFAX.RU - Partial depressurization of the cabin of the Sukhoi Superjet-100 aircraft, which was making the Kazan-Moscow flight, did not prevent the crew from landing at Sheremetyevo practically on schedule, according to the press service of the RF Ministry of Emergency Situations in Tatarstan.


                At the same time, Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport did not confirm the fact of the plane's emergency landing. As the official representative of the air harbor Roman Genis told ITAR-TASS, "no emergency landings were recorded during the day, the planes arrive at the airport and take off according to the staff schedule."
                1. 0
                  3 August 2012 17: 42
                  2010

                  12.01.10 AH-148 RA-61701 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "PIC Galakhov A.V.
                  Flight PL-112 Sheremetyevo - St. Petersburg. Returned from the preliminary start due to a malfunction of the fuel system.
                  The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  16.02.10 AH-148 RA-61702 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "PIC Galakhov A.V.
                  Flight SDM-751 SPb - Samara. After landing on the run, the board “Failure of SU No. 2” lit up. After stopping at the runway, the crew requested towing. Self-shutdown of the engine due to the extinction of the combustion chamber when it gets into heavy rainfall during transient engine operation.

                  02.03.10 An-148 RA-61701 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "FAC Askerov Sh.A.
                  Flight PL-751 SPb - Samara. When approaching, there was a noticeable increase in the release time of the right landing gear in relation to the left. Due to lack of time, leaving for the 2 circle with cleaning the chassis. Repeated entry without deviations.
                  Chassis. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  29.03.10 An-148 RA-61702 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  In Pulkovo airport, after the flight after training in a / d conditions, a bent fan blade of the left engine was found

                  09.04.10 An-148 RA-61702 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight PL-184 Domodedovo - St. Petersburg. When approaching, the left landing gear did not come out. Visual inspection from the ground during the passage of the aircraft above the launch confirmed the release of the rack. Chassis were released from the alarm system. Landing safely.
                  Chassis. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  12.05.10 An-148 RA-61701 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight SDM-132 Vnukovo - St. Petersburg. After takeoff, a noise appeared from the side of the airfoil in the climb. The crew determined the leaky fit of the window and decided to follow the a / d destination to H = 3600m.
                  Air conditioning system and tightness. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  04.06.10 An-148 RA-61701 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight SDM-132 Vnukovo - St. Petersburg. At a distance of 280km from St. Petersburg at H = 10600m there was a loss of automatic control of the aircraft with simultaneous entry into the right bank to 60 degrees. with negative pitch 20 deg. loss of altitude 300m., after which horizontal flight was restored. Landing safely. Reducing the supply voltage of the 4 feedback sensors of the EMF channel due to mechanical damage to the insulation of the electric wire.
                  Aircraft control system

                  28.06.10 An-148 RA-61704 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight PL-153 Pulkovo - SHRM. In flight, the right engine generator failed. The crew returned to the departure airport.
                  Engine. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  10.07.10 An-148 RA-61701 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight SDM-143 St. Petersburg - Moscow. There were problems with the control of the aircraft. The crew decided to return to the departure airfield. Landing safely. Reducing the supply voltage of the 4 feedback sensors of the EMF channel due to mechanical damage to the insulation of the electric wire.
                  Aircraft control system

                  24.07.10 An-148 RA-61702 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight PL-115 SPb - Sheremetyevo. On the run, the reverse thrust of the left engine did not turn on.
                  Engine. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  16.08.10 An-148 RA-61704 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight SDM-193 SPb - Domodedovo. After take-off, all landing gears were not removed; after running out of fuel, landing at Pulkovo airport was safe.
                  Chassis. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  28.09.2010 AN-148-100 UR-NTA
                  During the execution of the AEW 251 flight along the Boryspil-Vilnius route at the initial stage of the approach, the crew turned off the left engine due to an alarm about its malfunction. The reason is the destruction of the gear drive of the generator.
                  Engine

                  20.10.10 An-148 RA-61705 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight SDM-303 SPb - Arkhangelsk. In the climb there was a lot of noise in the area of ​​the PIC window. The crew returned to Pulkovo airport.
                  Air conditioning system and tightness. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  04.11.10 10 AN-148-100 UR-NTA
                  during the performance of the AEW 207 flight along the Boryspil-Warsaw route on the landing line, the “1 Engine Dangerous Vibration” alarm
                  Engine

                  08.11.10 An-148 RA-61705 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight SDM-711 SPb - Perm. During the run-up at V = 160km / h the alarm “The fuel filter of the 1 engine is clogged” was triggered. Takeoff is stopped.
                  Engine. Not high-quality execution of the technological process at the manufacturer.

                  11.11.10 An-148 RA-61703 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight SDM-301 SPb - Arkhangelsk. On the run after landing, both engines switched off automatically.
                  Engine. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  20.11.10 An-148 RA-61704 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight PL-301 SPb - Arkhangelsk. When taxiing from the parking lot at the Pulkovo airport, the front landing gear control failed.
                  Chassis

                  27.11.10 An-148 RA-61702 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight PL-341 SPb - Murmansk. Failure of the right engine during mileage, after turning off the reverse at a speed of 120km / h.
                  Engine. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                  11.12.10 An-148 RA-61706 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight PL-324. Kaliningrad - St. Petersburg. On the after-flight maintenance, the nicks of the fan blades of SU No1 and No2 were found. The most likely cause could be the ingress of foreign objects into the air intakes (presumably compacted snow from the taxiway or apron cover).
                  Engine

                  15.12.10 An-148 RA-61704 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                  Flight PL-324. Kaliningrad - St. Petersburg. When approaching in automatic mode, at an altitude of 500m. there was a spontaneous increase in engine thrust, which entailed leaving for the second round.
                  Engine. The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.
                  1. 0
                    3 August 2012 17: 42
                    2011

                    22.01.11 An-148 RA-61705 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                    Flight PL-343 SPb - Murmansk. When landing, the front landing gear from the main hydraulic system did not come out. The crew produced a release from the emergency hydraulic system. Landing safely. Non-compression of the KB VKP-D713 stem due to the appearance of a crack on the eyes of the drive rocking chair.
                    The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                    27.01.11 An-148 RA-61705 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                    Flight SDM-441 SPb - Surgut. When flying on a train in the area of ​​Kotlas, the crew turned off the left engine due to rising temperatures and a drop in oil pressure and decided to make an emergency landing at the alternate airport of Syktyvkar. Landing safely. Decreasing oil from the engine oil system due to impermeability of the connection of the blind fitting of the oil drain from the fan turbine support MDU№1.
                    Engine

                    03.02.11 An-148 RA-61704 FSUE "State Customs Committee" Russia "
                    Flight 431 SPb - Novy Urengoy. When approaching, the left landing gear from the main and backup hydraulic systems did not come out. The crew performed a departure for the second round, with a second approach, the chassis were released in normal mode. The reason for not releasing the left landing gear was the failure of the VKP-D713 limit switch.
                    The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                    5.03.11
                    disaster: Antonov A148 near Voronezh on Mar 5th 2011, in flight break up -

                    12.03.11 AN-148 UR-NTC
                    During the flight AEW 215 Boryspil-Stockholm at the take-off stage during the climb, there was no pressurization of the passenger cabin due to the formation of a gap between the FAC window frame and the frame. The plane returned to the departure airport.
                    Air conditioning and tightness

                    07.04.11 An-148 RA-61702 JSC "AK" Russia "
                    Flight C DM-141 SPb - Domodedovo. During take-off, the crew reported not cleaning the left landing gear. After running out of fuel, landing at Pulkovo Airport safely. The reason for not cleaning the left landing gear could be the incomplete retraction of the cylinder rod of the backup opening of the locks of the removed position of the OSH.
                    The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                    17.04.11
                    Rossiya A148 at Mineralnye Vody on Apr 17th 2011, landed on closed runway

                    20.05.11 An-148 RA-61703 JSC "AK" Russia "
                    During the flight PL-343 St. Petersburg - Kiev, the front strut from the main hydraulic system was not released. The crew produced a release from the emergency hydraulic system. Landing safely. The reason for not releasing the front landing gear was an open wire 32.30F1-2.
                    Fuel system.
                    The disadvantages of the design of the product in operation.

                    21.05.11 An-148 RA-61702 JSC "AK" Russia "
                    Flight PL-146 Domodedovo - Pulkovo. In the cost center, the crew reported problems with air extraction. FAC decided to go down to 4200 and continue flying to Pulkovo. The reason for the AI ​​was the failure of the SPV MDU No. 1, No. 2
                    Air conditioning and tightness

                    29.05.11 An-148 RA-61706 JSC "AK" Russia "
                    Flight PL-441 St. Petersburg - Surgut. When approaching, there was no flap release. After leaving for the second round, the issue was carried out from the backup system. The reason for the AI ​​was not the release of the flaps in the main mode due to the hang of the pressure valve or the release valve KPM148Н.
                    Mechanization

                    15.06.11
                    http://www.ria.ru/incidents/20110615/388630259.html
                    Flight 116 "Moscow-Petersburg canceled due to malfunction of An-148 aircraft

                    16.06.11 An-148 RA-61704 JSC "AK" Russia "
                    Flight SDM-451 SPb - Tyumen. In the climb, the KISS “CHASSIS SIGNAL OF FAILURE” alarm went off, on the KONF frame - the front landing gear support in an intermediate position. The crew decided to produce fuel and land at the airport of departure. The chassis is released regularly (from the main system). Landing safely.
                    Chassis.

                    11.07.11
                    http://ria.ru/incidents/20110711/400083404.html
                    641 flight from St. Petersburg to the Minvody, due to a technical malfunction, returned to St. Petersburg airport. An-148 circled in the sky for two hours, generating fuel

                    13.08.11
                    Aerosvit A148 at Donetsk on Aug 13th 2011, rejected takeoff

                    14.08.11
                    Aerosvit A148 at Odessa on Aug 14th 2011, could not engage autopilot

                    15.10.11
                    http://ria.ru/incidents/20111016/460887771.html
                    SDM-862 flight on the route Simferopol - Pulkovo. Emergency landing in Simferopol. Engine failure.
                    67 passengers and 6 crew members
                    Rossiya A148 at Simferopol on Oct 15th 2011, engine shut down in flight after bird strike

                    14.11.11
                    Rossiya A148 at Nizhnevartovsk on Nov 14th 2011, flaps problem
                    Flight SDM-421 SPb-Nizhnevartovsk. RA-61701. Flaps did not come out during the approach, the crew left for the 2 circle. Released in standby mode. Failure of the combined drive of mechanization.

                    21.12.11
                    Flight PL-175 SPb-Vnukovo. RA-61704. The front landing gear did not clean. Return.

                    25.12.11
                    Flight PL-721 SPb-Rostov-on-Don. After take-off, the landing gears did not clean. Return.

                    28.12.11
                    Russia A148 near St. Petersburg on Dec 28th 2011, unsafe gear after departure
                    SDM-403 flight from St. Petersburg to Yekaterinburg. RA-61703 Limit switch failure VKP-D713

                    30.12.11
                    http://ria.ru/incidents/20111230/530073675.html
                    Two An-148 passenger planes flying on Friday from St. Petersburg were forced to return due to landing gear problems. Incidents occurred with airplanes departing for Berlin and Moscow.
                    Flight SDM-241. RA-61704. The reason was the failure to open the lock of the released position due to a failure of the microswitch block. POSH
                    1. 0
                      3 August 2012 17: 43
                      2012

                      24.02.12
                      Berlin - St. Petersburg, the left landing gear wheel of the An-148 aircraft of the Rossiya airline is damaged. the aircraft lost the left landing gear wheel during takeoff. On board 37 passengers

                      25.02.12
                      Technicians of the Omsk airport on Saturday discovered a malfunction of the hydraulic system in the An-148 aircraft of the Rossiya airline, due to which the flight was delayed, and 33 passengers flew to St. Petersburg on another liner.

                      29.02.12
                      An-148 aircraft of Rossiya airlines, which took off on Wednesday from St. Petersburg to the capital's Domodedovo airport, returned to Pulkovo due to autopilot refusal

                      05.03.12
                      St. Petersburg - Hamburg 51 passenger and seven crew members engine flight failure

                      08.03.12
                      Rossiya A148 at Ufa on Mar 8th 2012, rejected takeoff (fuel system clogging) /

                      15.04.12
                      Aerosvit A148 at Kiev on Apr 15th 2012, rejected takeoff

                      03.05.12
                      The AN-148 aircraft of the Rossiya airlines, which was supposed to perform flight No. 472 on the Omsk-St. Petersburg route on Thursday, was removed from the flight due to a failure of the on-board computer 42 passengers

                      26.05.12
                      When trying to land at the Omsk-Tsentralny airport on 01.16 Moscow time on Saturday, the aircraft commander reported the non-release of slats. As a result, it was decided to go to the second round and try again to land the plane
                      Flight No. 471 On board the An-148, there were 71 passengers (including two children) and 4 crew members.

                      10.06.12
                      FV 623 An-148 Pulkovo-Krasnodar 10.06.2012 22: 20 sent 10.06.2012 22: 54. The front landing gear did not clean. After burning fuel return.

                      20.06.12
                      the An-148 plane of the Rossiya airline, performing a flight on the route: "St. Petersburg - Moscow", shortly after take-off, was forced to return to the airport of departure due to the fact that the aircraft had an alarm. The landing went well. During a ground inspection, it was found that the alarm was false.
                      Rossiya A148 near St. Petersburg on Jun 20th 2012, cargo fire indication

                      23.06.2012
                      RA-61706 SDM644 FV644 @ 2012-06-23 04: 48 CET from MRV to LED
                      An-148, following the Mineralnye Vody - St. Petersburg route, accidentally landed at the Rostov-on-Don airport. “During the flight, an alarm was triggered that one of the engines did not produce fuel, and the crew commander decided on an emergency landing”
                      Rossiya A148 near Rostov on Jun 23rd 2012, fuel pump failure

                      01.07.2012
                      RA-61701. The An-148 aircraft operated the Domodedovo - Pulkovo flight. However, after takeoff, when the aircraft was still within the Moscow air zone, it triggered an alarm about the failure of the right engine. As a result, a decision was made on an emergency landing at Sheremetyevo.
                      SDM146 @ 2012-07-01 14: 38 CET from DME to LED
                      Rossiya A148 near Moscow on Jul 1st 2012, engine shut down in flight

                      08.07.2012
                      In Voronezh, An-148 made an emergency landing after takeoff
                      On board were 72 passengers and six crew members. Immediately after takeoff, the pilots were alerted by the fuel gauges and the commander decided to return. An hour and a half An-148 circled the airport, generating fuel

                      09.07.2012 at 19 hours MSK RA-61701 requested emergency assistance (general emergency)? Even the oncoming counter-course RA-61703 duplicated the request. Everything worked out, the 19-52 landed safely in the LED. The reason is unknown.
                      The board drove home after an emergency landing in SVO 01.07.12
                      1. +1
                        3 August 2012 17: 44
                        Sergey, welcome!
                        And how many total 148 are in operation?
                      2. +2
                        3 August 2012 17: 46
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzlFqBeVJI

                        By the way, how do you comment on this video?
                      3. dreamer
                        +1
                        3 August 2012 17: 48
                        Quote: urzul
                        By the way, how do you comment on this video?

                        This is extreme when landing ... belay
                      4. 0
                        3 August 2012 17: 53
                        Note did not fall apart;))
                        http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=v19747844aa8 вот кстати еще только по 148 му
                      5. dreamer
                        +2
                        3 August 2012 17: 56
                        Quote: urzul
                        Note did not fall apart;))

                        Pilots good How not turned over, such a buildup as a pendulum
                        by the way, only 148 mu

                        The passengers were probably sad, especially who was sitting at the portholes
                      6. VAF
                        VAF
                        +3
                        3 August 2012 18: 33
                        Quote: dreamer
                        How not turned over, such a buildup as a pendulum


                        Lesha, it’s right to say ... he didn’t scapot! +!

                        And it’s difficult to roll over on a passenger, you have to sit sideways and at a very high speed, while wings must fly off during a strike, then yes ... there will be ... a coup and many times.

                        Now, if the progressing "goat" had gone, then yes .... well, the passengers, I dare assure you, did not even have time to get scared. all business then 5-6 seconds no more ...
                      7. VAF
                        VAF
                        +2
                        3 August 2012 18: 35
                        Quote: urzul
                        Note did not fall apart;))


                        Andrei is very fast, so the energy at the fault has gone tangentially!
                      8. VAF
                        VAF
                        +3
                        3 August 2012 18: 25
                        Quote: urzul
                        By the way, how do you comment on this video?


                        A typical mistake of civilian pilots, due to little experience (dofig raid. But landings ... nifiga).

                        approach at increased speed, tried to grind without equalization. as a result of which a goat. Thank God it was smart enough not to take off the momentum right away, otherwise it would be progressive and could end badly, but put it decently, but due to the high speed, after the first touch, I could move away and make alignment, i.e. create a normal landing angle.
                        Once again, I say thank God that they did not grab the Ores, otherwise they could easily enter the second regime from the height to which they had retreated. to fall down and tweet the zemlyanitsa with a wing, then it would be ... well ... pa full !!!

                        And so the plane must be for non-alignment! Thank God everyone is alive!
                      9. VAF
                        VAF
                        +2
                        3 August 2012 18: 30
                        Quote: urzul
                        And how many total 148 are in operation?


                        Andrew, welcome, +! Well, you gave statistics, I take off my hat hi

                        But the same failures are serious but there is ... a false positive !!!

                        As far as I know, we have 8 pieces -6 in Russia and 2 in flight, and Ukrainians in UIA -3, i.e. only 11.
    2. pavlo007
      -1
      3 August 2012 09: 47
      What NEW victories do you mean. Call it - very interesting!
  8. max-02215
    +2
    3 August 2012 08: 56
    Why Vladik? Well, the infrastructure is clear, but how to get out of the Japanese puddle? Laperuza, the Sangar Straits cannot be passed unambiguously, the Tatar is shallow, but Tsushima already passed ........
    1. 0
      3 August 2012 09: 00
      There is no such task, these ships, as a counterweight to the Japanese, are very convenient for landing on islands.
      1. dreamer
        0
        3 August 2012 09: 04
        Quote: cc-20
        these ships, as a counterweight to the Japanese, are very convenient for landing on islands.

        They will be drowned before they enter the landing zone, you would first think before posting such crap hi
        1. +5
          3 August 2012 09: 18
          The dreamer, before landing, crush the coastal infrastructure of the enemy with aviation and missiles. Each ship has its own specialization, and each is needed for a specific task.
          1. VAF
            VAF
            +3
            3 August 2012 11: 05
            Quote: cc-20
            crush the coastal infrastructure of the enemy with aviation and missiles.


            Dear, the infrastructure is not involved in coast guard and defense !!!

            This is so for you just in case. for "spreading" outlook !!! This time!

            And secondly ... you must first have ... this aircraft and missiles ... THIS IS TWO !!!!

            But then already begin to plan ... mythical landing operations to seize the islands (territories of sovereign states that are part of the NATO bloc) !!!! am
            1. +2
              3 August 2012 11: 27
              But what about TU22M on Kamenny Brook, Spassk Dalniy, Vozdvizhenka, there’s nothing to bang the adversary directly for, but if we mobilize Veteran Air Force to slant the bombing.
              1. VAF
                VAF
                +3
                3 August 2012 12: 06
                Quote: cc-20
                But what about TU22M on Kamenny Brook, Spassk Dalniy, Vozdvizhenka


                Well dear, you remembered ... this is when, firstly, it was ... and secondly, now the remnants of the Tu-22M3 are all in Belaya. and in Mongokhto, Zavitoy, Khorol, Sov.Havan, you still remember about the "Petrel" on about. Iturup .... crying .... well, I don’t want to talk about Vozdvizhenka .... a cemetery, it is a cemetery am Although there is no "new" now on the "reformed" it is called .... the commandant's office ... am

                Yes, and MRA "died" all completely ... and you bomb it ???? although here crying necessary !!!
                1. +3
                  3 August 2012 12: 11
                  Everything went to cry, again one hope for the Strategic Missile Forces remained.
                2. +6
                  3 August 2012 12: 15
                  Quote: vaf
                  and in Mongokhto, Zavitoy, Khorol, Sov.Havan, you will also remember the "Petrel"

                  Sergey, but aren't TU-95 standing and not only standing in Mangoht now, but the airfield is also flying, and as far as I know, there are a fairly large number of flights.
                  1. VAF
                    VAF
                    +4
                    3 August 2012 13: 57
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    Mangohte not TU-95 stand and not only stand, but also fly the airfield works and as far as I know a fairly large number of flights.


                    Sasha, you’re right, +, but we were speaking for strike aircraft !!! soldier



                    In the Soviet years, the 143th naval missile air division of the Pacific Air Forces, consisting of 568 MRA and 570 MRA, Il-28, Tu-16, Tu-22M2 aircraft, and 310 long-range anti-submarine defense regiment, Tu-142M aircraft, was deployed in the garrison.

                    At present, the 568th separate guards combined air regiment of the Russian Air Force and Air Defense Forces of the Pacific Fleet of military unit 90724, with Tu-142MZ long-range anti-submarine defense aircraft, is located in Mongohto



                    and aircraft radio transponders Tu142MR



                    and search and rescue squad Ka-27PS, Mi-8 and military transport An-26. Runway - 3400 meters, concrete.
        2. +8
          3 August 2012 10: 10
          You somehow don’t understand, it’s obvious. The Mistral by itself is almost a barge. But the fact is that separately he should not swim.

          The Western concept involves the creation of shock groups of ships, where each ship is engaged in its own business, which dramatically increases the power of each unit, and where the basis is long-term autonomous navigation. In the USSR, they took the path of short motorized exits to the sea, in which each ship itself is an independent unit, and, accordingly, should be armed as much as possible.

          Mistral, besides the fact that he is a landing ship, primarily a command center. He should not be close to the enemy, this is an excessive function. He is covered by the ships of his landing group.
      2. max-02215
        +2
        3 August 2012 09: 12
        Quote: cc-20
        these ships to counterbalance the Japanese,
        I agree, but they don’t need to be underestimated, you can’t even come close to your forehead.
        Remon then, of course, Primorye, and put the bases on the Kuril Islands. I left Simushir and go and sort out the "Mistral" roofing felts in the fogs of the floating base, I exaggerate of course))
      3. +2
        3 August 2012 09: 34
        And there are more than enough islands there. And not all of ours. so these irons in a Japanese puddle are very useful.
      4. VAF
        VAF
        +1
        3 August 2012 11: 02
        Quote: cc-20
        these ships, as a counterweight to the Japanese, are very convenient for landing on islands.


        Do you really think so or ... fool around ???

        What landings and which islands ???? Who will let you approach the landing ???

        Or do you think one company on the Mi-8's to capture everything ???

        And how is the technique unloaded from the Mistral in the course ??? So take an interest in the Moreman !!!

        generally MINUS for LITERACY and DIGGLESS !!! am
        1. +5
          3 August 2012 11: 36
          And nafuya us tanks, there are after all grenade launchers, all the same they will beat, according to your logic. So then the TU-160 is not needed; rappers will intercept it. I read your clarification posts with great pleasure, I ask you not to swear with a hangover, but to clarify and educate amateurs especially in aviation. Sincerely.
          1. VAF
            VAF
            +5
            3 August 2012 14: 11
            Quote: cc-20
            I ask you not to swear with a hangover, but to explain and educate amateurs especially in aviation.


            I apologize, got excited ... fool now everything is normal ... drinks

            Quote: cc-20
            according to your logic. So then the TU-160 is not needed; rappers will intercept it.


            By my logic, it is categorically impossible:

            1. To concentrate everything that remains in one heap.

            2. Destroy special aviation (reconnaissance and EW and P).

            3. Urgent restoration of strike and assault aviation (well, of course, everything else is the same, all kinds and types of armed forces).

            4. And what would Raptors or some other wickedness not intercept, for this it is necessary to urgently adopt the X-101/102 missiles, and not like that ... as now .... uryayayayaya and more, as you say "nifuya"! !!
            1. +2
              3 August 2012 14: 25
              drinks In my opinion, in general, these floating docks are, so to speak, a trifle for the state, but at least the Kamov craftsmen will work for "alligators", and there will be enough orders for the carabela, both to build at their shipyards and to equip those abroad. I mean, there will be some movement anyway, otherwise this loot would be blown in the wind.
              1. VAF
                VAF
                +3
                3 August 2012 15: 11
                Quote: cc-20
                In my opinion, as a whole, these floating docks are, so to speak, a trifle, for the state,


                Now, if instead of this "hat" they bought Juan Carlos (here's a new aircraft carrier and a landing and headquarters one, whatever you want) below there is a comment and read it ...

                And even better 4-6 new Orlans were built, that would be strength. !!!!

                And please, do not talk about the alligator as a percussion, and even more so at sea ... as any other, but not percussion !!! +! drinks
                1. +1
                  3 August 2012 16: 08
                  Now, if instead of this "hat" bought Juan Carlos
                  They wanted him and stood on the horns.
                  And even better 4-6 new Orlans were built, that would be strength. !!!!
                  The remaining ones will be commissioned over time and by the availability of slipway seats.
                  IMHO new ones are not needed more than the destroyer in the 12kt form factor with nuclear power plants.
                  And please don’t need about the alligator as a shock
                  And why is he bad as a drummer?
                  1. VAF
                    VAF
                    +3
                    3 August 2012 17: 37
                    Quote: leon-iv
                    And why is he bad as a drummer?


                    That would not go into too much "lyrics". helicopter this machine is designed for covert movement over the terrain using the terrain and inflicts high-precision strikes from behind shelters and natural obstacles, not using extreme measures leads to large losses due to the opposition of enemy air defense (unless, of course, he is armed with arrows and clubs)!

                    I’ll explain further, or you’ll think of it yourself ... I’ll tell you ... the tactical range of 200 km (the sea, then his houseboat can be slapped into the light by anyone) and now you know the name of the helicopter above the sea at a speed of 250-300 km / h. ..no tell you .. SUPER TARGET !!!
                    1. 77bor1973
                      +1
                      3 August 2012 22: 06
                      I agree that this craft is quite vulnerable to enemy strike weapons, but it should not be considered as a strike unit, but as a highly mobile transport, a headquarters ship and a floating hospital.
  9. 0
    3 August 2012 08: 59
    pavlo007, firstly, enough hysteria, and secondly, don't lie about: "Domestic shipyards stand and fall apart without orders"
    1. +5
      3 August 2012 09: 32
      CONSTRUCTED and under construction ships and submarines of the Russian Navy:
      in recent years:
      Etc. 20380 "Steregushchiy" Russia, 2008 Corvette --- 2 built + 2 built
      Etc. 22460 Rubin Russia 2009 PSKR --- 1 built
      Etc. 22350 "Admiral Gorshkov" Russia 2011 Frigate --- 2 under construction (not to be confused with the aircraft carrier of the same name "A. Gorshkov"!))
      Etc. 21630 “Buyan” Russia 2007 IAC (small artillery ship) --- 1 built in 2006 g. + 2 are under construction
      Etc. 20370 Russia, 2001 y. Boat Communications --- 4 built
      Etc. 20180 Zvyozdochka Russia, 2007 g. Title --- 1 in 2007 g. + 1 under construction In the series, 5-6 units are expected. minimum
      Etc. 20120 Russia, 2008 g. Experimental diesel-electric submarine 1 built SF - B-90 "Sarov"
      Etc. 18280 Russia, 2004 Propulsion Ship Communications 1 built "Admiral Yu. Ivanov", + 1 in construction. CERs, i.e. scout
      Etc. 11711 Ivan Gren Russia, 2012 BDK (large landing ship) 1 is under construction + 5 in the future Baltic Fleet
      Etc. 16810 Russia, 2007 Deep-sea vehicle 2 built by "Rus" and "Consul"
      Etc. 14230 Sokzhoy Russia, 2002 Propulsion 2 PCs built
      Etc. 1244,1 "Thunder" Russia, 2009 TFR 1 in 2009 now "Borodino", training ship
      Etc. 1431 “Mirage” Russia, 2001, PC 3 BF - 2, CF - 1.
      Etc. 1166,1 "Gepard" Russia, 2001 MPK 2 built "Tatarstan" and "Dagestan" Series - 10.
      Etc. 1244,1 “Thunder” Russia, 2011 frigate 1 to 2011
      Etc. 266,8 "Agat" Russia, 2007 MT 1 built by the Baltic Fleet (= Project 02268 "Adm. Zakharyin" was commissioned to the Black Sea Fleet)
      Etc. 10410 / 2 "Firefly" of the USSR, 1987 of the city of PCs, about thirty were built in total, of which about ten have been built since the beginning of the 2000's. 1 is under construction.
      Etc. 955 / A Borey / Killer Whale Russia, 2007 SSBN 1 built + 3 under construction, preparing for the 1 tab
      Etc. 885 "Ash" Russia, 2010 Propulsion 1 submarine is almost built. 1 is under construction. It is planned to bookmark another 1 during the year.
      Etc. 677 “Lada” Russia, 2010. DPSL 1 built. 3 are under construction.
      Etc. 10830 “Wicket” Russia, 2003 AGS 1 built

      PLANNED TO BUILD:
      Etc. 677 “Lada” Russia, 2010, 3 submarines; 4 are being built by 2015, construction of 20-25 is planned so far.
      Etc. 955 / A "Borey" / "Killer whale" Russia, 2007 SSBNs 1 + 3 laid down Planned construction from 5 to 8
      Etc. 885 “Ash” Russia, 2010 g. An 1 submarine is under construction, 1 is laid down. A minimum of 10 is planned to be built
      Etc. 20180 “Zvezdochka” Russia, 2007 Title 1 in 2007 + 1 under construction 6 in the future
      20380 Steregushchiy »Russia, 2008. The construction of 20 is planned.
      Etc. 21630 “Buyan” Russia, 2007 g. IAC 1 in 2006 g. + 2 are under construction
      It is planned to build from 5 to 7-15 to 2020.
      Etc. 22350 “Admiral Gorshkov” Russia, 2011 The frigate 1 is under construction + 1 laid down The planned construction of 20

      Links in addition:
      1) Nuclear submarine "Project 210" "Losharik" was built in 2003
      http://www.newsru.ru/russia/12aug2003/losharik.html
      2) In 2008, the Caspian Flotilla (CF) of Russia entered service with two small landing boats “Serna” and 1 at the Black Sea Fleet (plan - 30 units) In total, 7 units were built, one in construction.
      http://prospekta.net.ru/np11770.html
      3) A new generation of patrol ship for the Border Guard launched
      http://www.itar-tasskuban.ru/news.php?news=2302
      total order for naval ships - 20 ships of this type, in November 2009 was handed over an icebreaker patrol ship for naval ships with a displacement of 1000 tons
      plus for PV another order of 30 boats PSKA pr.12200 "Sobol" and 20 boats pr.12150 "Mongoose", plus new patrol boats "Sprut" and border patrol ships "Mirage" (not to be confused with the missile boat "Mirage")
      4) The program for the restoration of heavy missile cruisers of the "Kirov" type (project 1144 and its modifications).
      Now the Russian Navy has one Peter the Great nuclear missile cruiser. The possibility of restoration and modernization of the nuclear-powered cruiser Admiral Nakhimov, as well as Admiral Lazarev, is being discussed. According to Vladimir Popovkin, the Ministry of Defense considers it advisable to have up to three of these ships in the Navy: one of them will be in the Pacific Fleet and two will be in the Northern Fleet.
      http://www.oborona.ru/1001/1010/index.shtml?id=4213

      Addition to the list.
      For the Russian Navy are still under construction:
      * Project 12700 base minesweeper "Alexandrite". Currently, two ships of this project are under construction. Note - minesweepers-mine seekers, not ordinary MT
      * Project 21820 Dugong small landing ship in an air cavity.
      One ship of this project is currently under construction, an order for up to ten Dugongs has been announced.
      * Communication vessel of the 18280 project. Currently, one vessel of this project is being built, an order has been announced for a total of two vessels of the 18280 project.
      * Rescue vessel of the 21300С project. Currently, one vessel of this type is being built, an order has been announced for a total of four vessels of the 21300С project.
      * Rescue vessel "Igor Belousov"
      OJSC "Admiralteyskie Verfi" is under construction. Laid down on December 24, 2005. Delivery to the fleet was announced for 2011.
      * Sea transport of weapons of project 21130 "Discant". One ship of this project is currently under construction. Laid down in 2008, delivery in 2011.
      * Maritime weapons transport (search and transport vessel) of the 20180 project. One ship of this project is currently under construction.
      * Crane loader vessel of project 20360 "Dubnyak". Currently, one vessel of this project is under construction, an order for two Dubnyaks has been announced.
      * Experimental vessel of project 11982. One vessel is currently under construction. "Seliger" Laid down on 8 July 2009. Delivery to the fleet was announced for 2011.
      * Marine rescue tug of the 22030 project. Currently, one vessel of this project is being built, the order of three such tugs has been announced. Delivery of the first - 2011 year.
      * Project 745MB sea rescue tug "Morzh". Currently, two ships of this project are under construction (in the 745MB modification), an order for a total of four "Walruses" has been announced.
      * Small hydrographic vessel of project 19910. The lead ship ("Vaygach") entered the fleet in 2008. Currently, one vessel of this type is under construction, an order for a total of four vessels of project 19910 has been announced.
      * Large hydrographic boat project 19920 (19920Б). The lead boat of this project, BGK-2090, joined the fleet in 2008. One boat of this type is currently under construction.
      * Raid tug of the 90600 project. Since 2003, 18 tugboats of the 90600 project have been built (including one for the Russian Navy). An 2 vessel of this project is currently under construction, and an order has been announced for the Russian Navy for a total of five tugboats.
      * In addition to this ordered:

      JSC "Baltic shipbuilding plant" Yantar "" (Kaliningrad) Oceanographic vessel project 22010 2013
      OJSC "Vostochnaya Verf" (Vladivostok) Landing craft 2011
      OAO "Okskaya shipyard" (Navashino, Nizhny Novgorod region) Crane-loader vessel of project 20360 2010
      JSC "Khabarovsk shipbuilding plant" Two sea rescue tugs of project 22030 2011
      JSC "Zelenodolsk Plant named after A. M. Gorky" (Zelenodolsk, Tatarstan) Two sea rescue tugs of project 745MB in 2010 and 2011
      Astrakhan Shipyard Yard tug of the project 705Б 2011 year
      JSC "Leningrad shipyard" Pella "" Two harbor tugs of project 90600 2010 and 2011
      JSC "Sokolskaya shipyard" (Sokolskoye settlement, Nizhny Novgorod region) Harbor boat project 1388NZ 2010
      October Revolution Shipyard OJSC (Blagoveshchensk, Amur Region) Two self-propelled barges in 2009 and 2010
      35 shipyard (Murmansk) Project boat 1394 2010 year.

      Read in full: http://yablor.ru/blogs/pogibshiy-flot-sssr/588318

      This is a clearly lying enemy site, which is obliged to powder our brains, distract from the current state of affairs, but still ...
      Personally, I am pleased to see these numbers and names.
      1. pavlo007
        -3
        3 August 2012 09: 53
        Abbaldet ... especially the two self-propelled barges impressed.
        I understand that our shipyards are overloaded and we give insignificant orders to the countries of the Allies? or Do you even admit that Pukin has so ruined domestic shipbuilding science that we are not able to design and build UDC?

        Decide already.

        Z.Y. Credit for computer science, for copying the text and pasting it into the post you passed.
        Z.Z.Y. It was also impressive that the frigate was now named after Admiral Gorshkov. Cool!
        1. MURANO
          +1
          3 August 2012 10: 40
          Quote: pavlo007
          It was also impressive that the frigate was now named after Admiral Gorshkov. Cool!

          If you only now know this, then your level of knowledge of the topic is clear.
          1. pavlo007
            +2
            3 August 2012 14: 21
            This has long impressed me. To call a frigate the name of a man like Gorshkov is to sign that our country is nobody, nothing, and never will become nothing. I will tell you the secret that in any self-respecting naval power there is a certain hierarchy in the matter of the name of the ships.
            According to the status, a missile cruiser should have been named after Gorshkov, but the Nuclear Aircraft Carrier would have relied if he had won 3 worldly ones at sea (Nimitz in analogues). Well, the last black humor of course.
      2. sergo
        0
        3 August 2012 22: 18
        Yes, compared with the volume of production in the USSR is very impressive :)
    2. pavlo007
      -1
      3 August 2012 09: 58
      No, well, we can say that they are rebooted. especially when there are three sensible welders of a pensioner per plant, but Tajiks don’t take something for welding with a pen yet ... We are a race of gentlemen and managers for innovative debilding.

      I will not hysteria, I just see with my own eyes the situation at engineering enterprises. You see the news of the first channel - do you feel the difference?
      1. alps
        +2
        3 August 2012 10: 30
        At a time when three sensible retiree welders were as stupid as today's young welders, we also built ships abroad. What is the problem then?
        1. +2
          3 August 2012 10: 46
          Quote: pavlo007
          especially two self-propelled barges impressed.


          Apparently, self-propelled barges are also needed.

          Quote: pavlo007
          Do you even admit that Pukin has so ruined domestic shipbuilding science that we are not able to design and build UDC?

          Decide already.


          I am determined. My (I emphasize) the opinion that we could probably design and build the UDC. It's a question of time. Moreover, in Soviet times, we had enough helicopter carriers. And I think that the point here is not that we cannot, and not even the loading of shipyards. But in politics. Buying these irons me personally It seems a matter of little relevance and clever, but since I do not own all the behind-the-scenes information, I prefer not to get into too much about this topic. For already (as I wrote) it is repaid. So all that remains is to figure out how to adapt these coffins smarter for the needs of the fleet.

          Quote: pavlo007
          You see the news of the first channel - do you feel the difference?


          I’m sorry. The first channel I do not watch. And I am also observing the situation at enterprises, since not everyone has mutilated the benefit.
          1. pavlo007
            0
            3 August 2012 14: 24
            No, with the first channel pleased.
            And we buy it clearly for what - for the tacit support of France in question 080808. But even the dorogovaaaato ....
        2. pavlo007
          0
          3 August 2012 14: 30
          The problem is that at that time there were 333 intelligent welders and the production volumes at our shipyards were slightly different. And these 3 retirees were not stupid. And there were not 3 of their inexperienced, but 333. Do you catch the moment?
  10. +3
    3 August 2012 09: 53
    Mistrals will sail
    - Is it sarcasm, or did the author simply write out of ignorance? I do not cling to the words I just really did not understand.
    1. +3
      3 August 2012 14: 33
      And what is there to understand. The author very correctly and tactfully expressed his attitude to these "ships"
  11. schta
    +3
    3 August 2012 10: 17
    Volodya recently came to lay the cruiser in Severovdinsk. Helicopters snooped back and forth over Arkhangelsk .... Nevertheless, everyone was used to it. The laying of ships every few months in Severodvinsk shipyards has become a tradition.

    Mistrals will not become that "instrument" that determines our power.
  12. 0
    3 August 2012 10: 46
    If ours put additional weapons on these boats according to the list specified in the article, then this will be a completely different type of ship. A landing helicopter carrier with the latest air defense system, supersonic cruise missiles and anti-submarine weapons - this is not halam ballam! Plus the latest electronics! I do not even doubt the demand for such ships, especially in the Far East.
    1. 77bor1973
      0
      3 August 2012 12: 11
      Yes, there will be no RCC on them, no place!
      1. +1
        3 August 2012 12: 50
        Yes, and they are not needed there
      2. 0
        3 August 2012 13: 34
        Read the article carefully. The list of weapons is indicated.
        1. 77bor1973
          0
          3 August 2012 21: 47
          You can’t be so gullible, and there’s nowhere to put RCC on it, because this ship also carries the functions of a floating hospital — a bunch of cabins and operating rooms in addition ...
        2. MURANO
          +1
          3 August 2012 21: 54
          Quote: IRBIS
          The list of weapons is indicated.

          These are early fairy tales. The composition of weapons is defined as follows: 2 AK630 and 2 "Gibki"
          1. MURANO
            +1
            3 August 2012 21: 56
            And more. Side view. smile
  13. Oleg0705
    -7
    3 August 2012 11: 01
    And if on the Mistral the springboard is like on the Kuz, then the aircraft carrier is a hybrid what winked
    1. Oleg0705
      -6
      3 August 2012 12: 11
      You set a minus justify what is wrong and why. smile or is it the grandmother’s genes or the legacy I don’t remember exactly? laughingremember the movie ordinary miracle?
      1. VAF
        VAF
        +2
        3 August 2012 14: 15
        Quote: Oleg0705

        You set a minus justify what is wrong and why.


        Easy, respected:
        1. For Kostya, a lover of Lithuanian sausages and supposedly for a duel I lost!

        2. For my alleged "stupidity" in matters of politics and in general, as Petka said ... "on a global scale", and for the role of TECHNOR assigned to me by you!

        3. For the hybrid, everything is described below in the comment!

        Well, the rest is so, on the little things ... but we will not trifle .... soldier
        1. Oleg0705
          -2
          3 August 2012 22: 42
          Serega Friend! God grant of course! Well, what kind of grievances for children? Kostya is a normal guy, perhaps younger than us, another generation, but he loves his homeland no less than you and me. Maybe it’s not worth it so sharply as we sometimes allow ourselves? I don’t need to drive visitors to Isaul and set up visitors against him either, I and him and Alexei and you were still a Novosibirets and many others thankful when I was either unclear or clear, but I didn’t read their posts and it was not clear.
          And it turns out like here in the film Ordinary Miracle. hi
    2. VAF
      VAF
      +6
      3 August 2012 12: 20
      Quote: Oleg0705

      And if on the Mistral the springboard is like on the Kuz, then the aircraft carrier is a hybrid


      Do you like approving, invent bicycles ???

      No, to admit ... "gave a blunder .." with the barges. but we, or rather THEM, had to do that ... bully

      for a long time everything was invented and built and would have taken an order from us with great pleasure and at the exit .. cheaper and much better !!!

      1. Oleg0705
        -4
        3 August 2012 12: 41
        Sakhalinets (2) RU Today, 09:59 ↑

        Alexei, see for yourself Kuzya, like his predecessors was built in Nikolaev (Ukraine), such ships were not built in Russia. The construction technology, in fact, with the collapse of the union, has been partially lost; the infrastructure for such ships is 0. Now all this is bought and mastered.


        But how can there be nowhere to do with this? Comrade Neodobryams bully
    3. +3
      3 August 2012 12: 51
      Why - may I ask?
      1. Oleg0705
        -4
        3 August 2012 13: 02
        why are you coming to me? If at the expense of the springboard, then how many are there?
        1. +3
          3 August 2012 13: 37
          WHY DOES HE NEED?
          1. Oleg0705
            -4
            3 August 2012 13: 43
            to strengthen it with a couple of decked Su-25UTG and Su-33 planes, for example. Or can they take off without a springboard? Can there be anything with a vertical take-off?
            1. +2
              3 August 2012 13: 50
              Oh my God. And why not spit - and immediately Mistral to fly into an aircraft carrier?
              1. Oleg0705
                -4
                3 August 2012 13: 52
                MAY ALSO AND OVERSTRING ALREADY winked
    4. +2
      3 August 2012 16: 09
      And you will put in the cockpit Mig-29)))))
      1. Oleg0705
        0
        3 August 2012 23: 01
        And you will put in the cockpit Mig-29)))))


        I do not mind even for !!! I will cover the Veteran !! laughing
  14. +5
    3 August 2012 11: 09
    To all the tantrums and room admirals hunched over the plans of the nuclear battles of the wars to come ....
    Have you read the Military Doctrine of Russia? Or is legal terms harder to learn than spamming answers in a hysterical style? (pro-polymers, which are about?)
    http://topwar.ru/9968-voennaya-doktrina-rossiyskoy-federacii.html
    http://www.rg.ru/2010/02/10/doktrina-dok.html
    or here
    http://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/navy.htm
    not written for lawyers

    in short, the revelation for you should be a simple truth:
    The Navy in Russia, not only in the event of a nuclear war, has much more tasks and possibilities for its use.
    This is me because the Mistral ship is needed and time-delayed.
  15. iwanniegrozny
    +1
    3 August 2012 12: 24
    It is immediately clear that the article was written according to different sources :). While the first part mentions the sad Soviet experience, confirming that new ships cannot be taken without a special coastal infrastructure, in the second part (taken from Izvestia) the sailors declare that the Mistrals are ready to put any berth on any wall. Either Soviet indifference still lives in them, or the infrastructure for aircraft-carrying ships miraculously arose after the disposal of these very ships.
    1. VAF
      VAF
      0
      3 August 2012 14: 21
      Quote: iwanniegrozny
      Either Soviet indifference still lives in them, or the infrastructure for aircraft-carrying ships miraculously arose after the disposal of these same ships.


      And do not consider the third option ????

      Bend over, click on the bootleg and "serve", because they raised everything very strongly, and there were almost no strains in combat service ... but you’ll open your mouth, they’ll be able to retire so quickly. but the difference is significant !!! +! drinks

      Here we did not discuss the topic for a long time about the new flight form. yesterday the flyers came in, so you would have listened to what they say ........ g ... oh ... and ..... d ...... oh this is the softest thing that can be said mostly pee pee pee ..... !!!

      And about everything else ... the same .... and these are drill and acting pilots, without a camera and not to the public.

      And I deeply doubt that in other genera and species the guys have different opinions, talk more, you will learn a lot .. interesting !!! recourse
  16. Aftar
    0
    3 August 2012 14: 16
    By 2014, they are likely to be fighting against Russia.
  17. sxn278619
    +4
    3 August 2012 15: 35
    For such purchases of new technologies must be planted.
    Another example.
    Each time the press sounded victorious: “Israeli drones will go into service with the Russian army!” But not a single message that at least one of the 60 imported UAVs entered the troops ever appeared. There are no messages about the development of relevant technologies. The deep meaning of the costs of about $ 200 million, that is no less than 6 billion rubles, is unclear. The terms of the contract prohibit the opening of UAV and ground equipment. In the event of a breakdown, an Israeli specialist is required. Representatives of the Russian industry, moreover, are not allowed to import equipment. The service is handled by Israeli staff. Refill vehicles can only Israeli fuel. It can be added that the transmission of information goes through open, unencrypted channels, navigation is exclusively GPS, integration into our communication lines is impossible. And absolutely wonderful fact - the operation of Israeli UAVs at air temperatures below zero degrees is prohibited.


    Подробнее: http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2012-07-20/9_yak130.html
    1. +1
      3 August 2012 16: 04
      Oh lord, this duck again, and illiteracy.

      About drones about which there is no information in the troops.
      http://twower.livejournal.com/757224.html
  18. xmike
    +1
    3 August 2012 15: 40
    dreamerFirst, our rulers made a "trampled fit" of France, and now they think where these "means of fighting the Papuans" could be used, spending a lot of money on it. I think that these are not the last expenses, but we are unlikely to wait for the return on them. A strange desire to drive them to the Pacific Fleet, in contrast to the respected Sakhalin, I do not see areas of application there for the Mistrals ... It would be easier for the Black Sea Fleet to train crews, they would be a good deterrent to Mishiko there, especially in the context of the upcoming transit of NATO equipment from Afgan to Georgia (yesterday's news on the site) and could reason with the Georgian border guards in Abkhaz and neutral waters, but this is IMHO "


    Mistrals are needed near Japan (they can be pulled by helicopters and a landing force), and on the Black Sea you can also reach Mishiko by land wink
  19. Okcug32
    +1
    3 August 2012 16: 02
    Return to the time of Peter 1? When do we rebuild the fleet from the west? And there was nothing to tear their achievements and bankrupt plants. Then we would not have ordered, but with us!
  20. MP
    -2
    3 August 2012 16: 59
    Article liked. I agree with the point of view of the author, our Navy needs such ships. They will be a weighty deterrent and will be indispensable in the event of an armed conflict with one of our neighbors. smile
  21. pepelacxp
    +2
    3 August 2012 18: 07
    One hope is that this infrastructure will subsequently come in handy for the Tavkr 50 years later
    the truth may already be Chinese
  22. 0
    3 August 2012 20: 40
    .
    Quote: dmitreach
    This is me because the Mistral ship is needed and time-delayed.

    Why is he so slow-moving only 18 knots, at the level of cruisers of the Russo-Japanese War
    1. +1
      4 August 2012 10: 50
      Do you think that the order of ships is always running at full speed? in fact, even Orlan has an "operational-economic" speed of 18 knots. And why should the UDC run at the speed of a cruiser? justify.
      for you, of course, it is a discovery that the speeds of ships of the last century and modern ones are not very different. the physics of water has not changed over the years ... The same destroyer "Novik" developed almost 40 knots, although it was built 100 years ago ...
      1. 0
        6 August 2012 12: 40
        Since we mentioned the cruiser Novik, apparently they heard a little about Port Arthur and how the Russian squadron went to Vladivostok. Read books and find out how slow-moving ships slowed down the squadron and what came of it.
        1. 0
          6 August 2012 13: 12
          from me too an example. By the way, an example showing that Russia has "colonies overseas ...." the same Sakhalin ... and as the development of these "overseas lands" (if you can reach them by land), the slow-moving Mistral is also suitable. if the map of Russia is stopped to be viewed as political on flat paper.
  23. +1
    3 August 2012 21: 37
    for whoever built the infrastructure and moorings. for Mistral or any other Russian ship, this is great. and why not break the spears.
  24. +2
    3 August 2012 21: 40
    But who will tell you what kind of technology we are buying with Mistral? Tea, the case to cook - no need to learn. But they won’t give the filling, you have to put your own. So what kind of technology - how to command the fleet - so if we don’t know how, then we won’t learn - and if we know how, then see earlier. I do not pretend to know myself ...
    1. +1
      5 August 2012 07: 21
      Well, besides the hull, there is also a power plant, so to speak, the heart of the ship.
  25. 6o6er
    0
    3 August 2012 22: 38
    The French built the Mistral so that the Papuans would drive in their colonies, but what should we do with them? On the Black Sea, the president’s residence should be guarded and scared of Georgia; nothing more would come to mind.
  26. orol
    +1
    3 August 2012 22: 40
    The remaining three aircraft carriers of this series were decommissioned and sold for scrap abroad (1 to South Korea and 2 ships to China)

    Moreover, even the missiles were decommissioned along with all the equipment. In the Chinese, one seemed to even be restored.
  27. Nechai
    +1
    4 August 2012 12: 06
    Remembered on the topic. At the beginning of the XNUMXs, VVP had just entered power, at one of the air showrooms, bypassing the presented stands, models, etc., he suddenly became interested in ekranoplanes. The manufacturer's representative and one of the commanders of the flying ships explained everything to him in detail. What piqued interest in this topic even more. And then someone, because of the presidential shoulder, well, apparently very "authoritative", gave out without epilation - V.V. this weapon system is very good, but its base infrastructure is very expensive! And alles. All. The extreme trick for the present, involving public rulers in the topic of equipping the RF Armed Forces with an advanced weapon system, ended in failure. And here, what about the import esch, it needs all the conditions. That's right, not required. Only that is why it is indisputable for the quartering of someone else's products, and there are funds, but NO for their own products ?! What becomes an insurmountable obstacle for its production AT ALL !!!
    1. 0
      4 August 2012 14: 44
      Well, let's discuss - why ekranoplanes are so good.
  28. rock09
    -1
    4 August 2012 12: 31
    why do we need French UDC, we have already excellent aircraft
  29. 6o6er
    0
    4 August 2012 13: 41
    There were rumors that I had to buy UDC from the French, something related to the gas pipeline and the French participation in this project. Like, such a rollback on our part, this explains everything.
  30. 0
    4 August 2012 14: 03
    Large French coffins for Russian sailors.
    1. 0
      4 August 2012 14: 45
      If used incorrectly, yes. Like any ship. If used correctly, it’s a very effective command ship.
  31. 0
    4 August 2012 15: 10
    Well, here you are and lit ...
    Mistrals are good in that they can easily fulfill the role of rescuers. And here sometimes we are shaking, if that. In the case of rams with jumps, we merge, because we do not have a developed and modern air defense / missile defense and air defense system. In general, Mystrams are multi-purpose, so to us they are what we need. We will carry used Japanese women for sale for them, if cho.
  32. 6o6er
    0
    4 August 2012 16: 27
    It will cost a lot to drag the shabby Japanese women on them, the time of Japanese aircraft approaching Vladivostok for about five minutes ... there is no need to tell further.
    and in the Northern Fleet, the Mistals also have nothing to catch ... so the Black Sea or the Caspian.
  33. mechanic11
    0
    4 August 2012 23: 28
    I must admit that today's technological Russia cannot produce the ships it needs for various reasons. The Mistral contract is a direct confirmation of this. Putin could turn this situation around - but he couldn’t or didn’t want to. He was in power for a long time but a socio-economic model does not change, oligarchic.
    1. 0
      4 August 2012 23: 42
      to whom to recognize? Russian? and then what? confess?
    2. not good
      -1
      5 August 2012 20: 13
      The leadership of Severnaya Verf has repeatedly declared its readiness to build ships similar to the Mistrals. So our industry has opportunities. The Korean UDC surpasses the Mistral in its capabilities, and it would have cost less. The Russian shipbuilding design bureaus offered UDC projects more reliable in terms of survivability , and the characteristics are not worse ... But, we need a pink elephant, and a rollback from the French is more profitable
      1. 0
        5 August 2012 22: 54
        The leadership is not a hard worker, but a manager. They have a nose in the wind where the bablos blows from, partly like their "osfoot and report." They can not promise that. And mountains of gold, and the moon from the sky, and a sickly rollback, but they won't do it in time. (why sell a cash cow?)
        Yes, here the product was needed ... The domestic industry has opportunities, but there are also problems. Misral, in addition to the political charms, at the service jacket also ordered that they would tear their legs, fulfilling the order. Whatever the "gesheft in the envelope", the prestige of the French shipyard is at stake there. These are not tajjiks at the dacha and not our defense industry complex, which until recently loved to "cut". No matter how much money is cut with the French, but the ship will be in the shortest possible time. With our shipyards, it would turn into a long-term construction like Vikramaditya. Look what the story with the cost of Boreyev and Yasenei is worth ... MO and USC just sort of agreed on the price ...
        You forget that in addition to the design bureaus that exist, you also need to have a well-functioning production system. ALWAYS ships of this rank are launched as the "lead ship" (design) and "first serial", regardless of the number of units in the series. This is because while the stocks and the entire infrastructure are "sharpened" for a specific project, you need to build at least one ship from "a" to "z". It is not just that the slipway for project 1135.6 (Talvar-class frigates for the Indian Navy. 6 pieces done) were loaded with the same type of project for the needs of the Russian Navy - the entire infrastructure is adjusted - bake the ships. There is no such thing with the UDC.
        So the elephant is not an elephant, but a large-scale project for the needs of USC. It will be mastered and you can seriously talk about the Russian Aircraft Carrier.
      2. 0
        6 August 2012 00: 01
        The management of the North Shipyard has a lot to say. Technology has only gone ahead - including the assembly of ships. Or, maybe they will also make command systems - one of the reasons Mistral is being purchased.
        1. 0
          6 August 2012 00: 50
          One of the reasons why the Korean Dokdo was abandoned. just a barge and ourselves. in theory.
  34. panzersoldat
    0
    5 August 2012 16: 45
    I have a couple of questions. Is the Mistral a helicopter carrier, or a landing ship?
    1. +2
      5 August 2012 17: 08
      Complex. And then, and then, and another control center. He does not walk alone, it is by analogy with an aircraft carrier - a helicopter group. The lever of the application of force.
      1. 0
        5 August 2012 23: 04
        type ship - Multitool
      2. Nickname
        0
        6 August 2012 10: 35
        Everything would be fine, but he will limit the speed of the entire group to 18 nodes. Therefore, it is called him a barge.
        1. 0
          6 August 2012 12: 09
          I already wrote a little higher: in fact, even Orlan has an "operational-economic" speed of 18 knots. And why should the UDC run at the speed of a cruiser? justify.
          sorry for copypast
          1. Nickname
            -2
            6 August 2012 16: 19
            Here are those times! Why ship speed. ..
            Yes, at least deliver troops to the landing site faster. And it would be economic speed, and so, if I am not mistaken this is its maximum. Well, there would be a maximum of at least 22 knots. He served in the auxiliary fleet in the KKS. So it was necessary to run for their militants at maximum, so they squeezed 22 knots, and moreover, they ran the strings at this speed !.
            1. 0
              6 August 2012 16: 37
              why do udk run at speed cruisers? I didn’t ask: "why does the ship need speed ..." no need to juggle, these are not mine, but your words. So what is the speed of the same BDK pr.775? the same 18 knots. and this did not prevent the BDK Caesar Kunikov from fulfilling its combat missions throughout its entire service, as in 080808.
  35. mechanic11
    0
    5 August 2012 17: 15
    You don’t have to repent. The type in Ukraine is not right — from Nikoraev, the welders left for Norway — they did such seams that they all ran off to watch. So I didn’t see a single welder on the site, neither 3 literate nor 333 inept. Apparently overwhelmed with orders.
    1. 0
      5 August 2012 22: 59
      you better sprinkle your head on ashes on the topic of loving shipyards in Danzig. where BDK 775 was built

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