In case of S-400 resale by Turkey, Russia may apply sanctions

Russia has the right to apply sanctions against Ankara if it agrees to the US proposal to resell Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems to it. But Turkey will not do it.

This opinion was expressed RIA News President of the Russian Association of International Law Anatoly Kapustin.

An amendment to the US defense budget, which provides for the purchase of Russian S-400 air defense systems from Turkey, was proposed by Republican Senator John Thune. At the same time, Ankara should not use the proceeds to purchase equipment that contradicts NATO requirements.

The expert believes that Turkey will not accept this proposal:

I think that it is in their interests not to follow up on such proposals, because this, of course, will lead to a complication of relations between Russia and Turkey, up to the application of any sanctions on our part.

Although Kapustin is not familiar with the terms of the contract for the purchase of Russian complexes by Ankara, he is sure that they provide for a ban on resale to third parties. Russia, the expert believes, probably already took into account the bitter experience when weaponshipped to other countries or manufactured there using Soviet technology was subsequently resold to our opponents in conflict zones and used against our troops.

The whole question is, what specific sanctions and against whom can Russia apply? But no matter what the hypothetical sanctions may be, it is not in Turkey’s interests to face them. Indeed, at one time, Russia had already limited communications and trade and economic relations with Ankara - after the strike on the Su-24M bomber over northern Syria. Then Ankara, through lobbyists of its interests, tried in every possible way to convince Moscow of the advisability of restoring contacts. I must admit that in the end she succeeded.

Comments

[Samara_63]

This transaction has a specific surname-Chemezov

[Far B]

Chemezov without a top sanction turned a deal of this level? Ah rascal

[Samara_63]

This is what you wrote, I didn’t pull you by the tongue, here you are clearly substituting the guarantor of the constitution ...
And who gave our guarantor arguments in favor of the deal? He cannot know the guarantor, and Chemezov is a great specialist in this matter.
A former employee of the embassy in Turkey, a great friend of Turkey Peskov, also advocated a deal in the media.

[Far B]

Guarantor in no way)))

[Grazdanin]

Selling Turkey S400 is a betrayal of the interests of Russia. Even the United States does not sell them modern weapons to them, their ally.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Grazdanin

Even the US does not sell them modern weapons to their ally.

and why sell, they once pinned the "patriots" with all the service personnel and for this they fought money from Turkey, and this is not counting the use of infrastructure "for so" ...

[Alex777]

Everything mixed up in Oblomov’s house ...
The states did not sell air defense / missile defense to the Turks because they listened to the Greeks.
And the Greeks with the Turks on knives and perceive any increase in Turkish power as a threat. Look where the S-400 Turks are going to put. To the Greeks closer.
Because of this, relations with the Greeks have badly deteriorated. What to do - it happens. The Greeks therefore gave the States all their bases. And ready to give a new open
IMHO, of course, but the Greeks blew Tomos to us in revenge for supporting Erdogan.
By the way, Erdogan recently publicly thought about converting the Sophia Cathedral into a mosque ... The Greeks should quiet down.

[Charik]

The Greeks, therefore, provided all their bases to the States, but were they not amers basing before the sale?

[Alex777]

While they were simply in NATO, there were limitations.
Now - they fulfill any whim.

[businessv]

Quote: Alex777

While they were simply in NATO, there were limitations.
Now - they fulfill any whim.

Friends, you dig deep! It’s just that the Greeks really need money, which for the base they generously pour whale whales! If you don’t understand what’s the matter, then the matter is money (s)!

[good]

the tomos and the Greeks are two different things, the patriarch sits in Turkey, who fussed for the independent church and not the Greeks :)

but in general do not care, the Turks wanted, they sold them, and sold the E version is the same as all the others
the plant earned, workers received a salary, budget taxes and dividends, plus a conflict with Turkey around everyone and with the states over this transaction, everything was done correctly.

[Alex777]

tomos and greeks are two different things

Firstly, the Ecumenical Patriarch is Greek. Although a Turkish citizen.
Secondly, the Alexandrian and Jerusalem patriarchs are Greeks.
Third, look who recognized the Tomos? Athos (with the exception of 3-4 monasteries), the Greek Patriarch, Alexandria, etc.
Alexandria salary in Greece receives. Therefore, he was forced to admit.
In Greece, after the war, the Church gave the state $ 2 billion worth of property to restore the country, and in exchange priests began to receive a salary from the Government. Etc.
So if the Government asks for something from the Church in Greece, it can hardly refuse anything.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Alex777

The states did not sell air defense / missile defense to the Turks because they listened to the Greeks.

At one time, the Greeks tried to buy S-300 from us, then in Turkey about this, they were outraged and the Greeks changed their minds. But the Turks, in the same situation, did not change their mind.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Bad_gr

At one time, the Greeks tried to buy S-300 from us, then in Turkey about this, they were outraged and the Greeks changed their minds.

Well, why, the Greeks on duty have a division of export S-300PM and Torah ...

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Bad_gr

and the Greeks changed their minds

Sorry, lied a little. I about it:
".... Cyprus / Greece: 2 S-300PMU1 divisions for 2016 [87]. Cyprus signed an agreement on the purchase of the S-300 (2 divisions + KP-RLO) in 1996. In the end, acquired the S-300PMU1 variant , but due to political divisions between Cyprus and Turkey and intense Anglo-American pressure, the S-300 was moved to the Greek island of Crete [103]; .... "

[Alex777]

Now I agree with you.

[Cyril G ...]

The decision is still political.
It is time.
Second, the export complex is not the same as for its army. I will give you an example. Ancient truth but the essence is clear. Sorry, I won’t.
Osa-ME had 1 daily frequency and 2 combat letters, our Osa-M also had one everyday and 8 combat letters, plus a lot of changes.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

the export complex is not the same as for its army

This is understandable, but few people are interested in Russian / Soviet electronics. For example, Israel has a quarter of exports built on this, they update the technology of Soviet / Russian production. SAM “Akash” is a mixture of “Cube” and American electronics. If you take the Soviet “iron” and Western “electronics”, you get the perfect weapon.

[Cyril G ...]

Yes, you can agree with this t.z.

[Alex777]

You can not.
What is true, for example, for tanks is fundamentally not true for such complex systems as the S-400. Israel has nothing of the kind.
To do something in terms of modernization, you need to have documentation.
At the old complexes, she had a lot of people. Both in the republics and in the countries of the Warsaw Pact. And nobody has it for new complexes. Therefore, Erdogan from time to time starts a song about technology, and then calms down.

[Per se.]

Quote: Alex777

What is true, for example, for tanks is fundamentally not true for such complex systems as the S-400.

It is true that it is easier to copy a machine gun than a tank, a tank than an airplane, and so on. Nevertheless, for its time it was also "impossible" when, having three B-29s, they created the Tu-4, even earlier, not everything was easy with the German V-2, according to which the P-1 was made. Our first thermal missiles for aviation were the result of the trophy of an American air-to-air missile from Vietnam.

In the end, and the Yankees are not fools if they are interested in the possibility of buying, The only question is, why is everything so complicated, if our buy and sell literally earlier stated that they could sell it anyway, if the Americans want to and pay. What's on the topic of the article "In case of S-400 resale by Turkey, Russia may apply sanctions", we must understand that the Turks will not get off with tomatoes again."

[Mikhail m]

Quote: Grazdanin

Even the US does not sell them modern weapons to their ally.

F-35 doesn’t count?

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Mikhail M

F-35 doesn’t count?

Turkey got them? I doubt that they will receive at all. And the C400 has nothing to do with it at all. Googling TF-X.

[Cyril G ...]

The final decision to purchase the S-400 was made, including after a public lowering from the F-35

[Maikcg]

So the Turks were kicked out of the F-35 with a bare ass in the cold, the first few planes already paid for were not given away, all the costs of the program were "forgiven" to the Turks

Well, with the rest of the allies, the F-35 has a tricky plan, as a result of which, before take-off, you need to first download the flight plan to the States by distance and only if they are allowed to take off, then ... It seems that only the Jews fought off this haemorrhoids by putting part of their electronics, well it is understandable, all are equal, but some are more even.

[Alex777]

So the Turks were kicked out of the F-35 with a bare ass in the cold, the first few planes already paid for were not given away, all the costs of the program were "forgiven" to the Turks

Not this way. Turks are trading and the States are trading. Replacing the Turks is not easy to find. Although they say that the issue has been resolved, it is not so simple. And it turns out more expensive, and with the quality of complexity.
When the Turks finally put the complexes into operation, then the States will have to decide something. They also threaten Hindus with sanctions, but this is already too much. They didn’t introduce against China, but will they introduce against India? It’s funny.
So when you have to finally push the Turks out of the program - you have to return the money. Now the time for final calculations is being chosen by both sides. More successful. And most likely it will be after the presidential election in the United States.
IMHO Turk was lucky to get off the F-35.

It seems that only Jews fought off such a haemorrhoids by putting part of their electronics, well, it’s understandable, everyone is equal, but some are more equal.

The Israelis generally developed their software. And there are fewer glitches than the Yankees. The whole song around this software is now unfolding. States want it for themselves. The conditions have not yet been discussed, as far as I am aware.

[Maikcg]

>> money will have to be returned
Good joke.

[Alex777]

Inzherlik sorry ...
And the territory of Turkey is the key to the Middle East.
Therefore, the money will be returned, because they are very dependent.
From Iraq, however, their rod slowly.

[codetalker]

What is the essence of betrayal?

[Alexey from Perm]

money in the capitalist world is everything

[Local from the Volga]

Only Almaz-Antey is not in the structure of Rostec! Balabol!

[codetalker]

This deal has many last names. And the deal is wonderful! It meets the interests of Russia.

[Samara_63]

And since this complex of Turkey is needed to create its own layered air defense
I think in two years they will have their own complex on the basis of this

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Samara_63

in two years they will have their own complex

Well, not in two, about 5 years will definitely leave, besides it depends on what technologies were transferred. Ukraine or Ukrainians can seriously help.

[Samara_63]

They quickly dealt with UAVs, I think here, too, all the more since I probably bought technology through reconnaissance

[ultra]

How old are you, dear? Judging by your posts 15-17.

[Cyril G ...]

10-12 no more ....

[Alex777]

They quickly dealt with UAVs, I think here too

The Chinese have been trying for how many years, but have failed.
It doesn’t matter what they write to themselves.
Could - they would have bought the Turks. And so - with us.
They sold the S-400 to the Turks because Russia is profitable.
Both Indians and Chinese were sold for the same reason.
If Chemezov was responsible for the documents and correctly executed everything, then well done.
I do not overlook the dignity of the Turkish military-industrial complex. He is first class.
But the Chinese are the main xerox of the planet. But could not yet. Bought.

[ender]

in short, it was the Chinese who won the Turkish tender in 2013

https://tass.ru/politika/682706

[Alex777]

in short, it was the Chinese who won the Turkish tender in 2013

So I already wrote about this. The Turks studied everything. Then they canceled the results of the tender. Then they bought from us.
And despite the fact that they are in the subject, then it is not in vain that such a choice was made.
Yes, and the Chinese S-400 were the first to buy.

[ender]

then canceled the tender results under US pressure.
both the Chinese and the Russian complex cannot be integrated into Turkey in a single air defense system

[Alex777]

S-300 was integrated by the Greeks.
I recalled the tender to the fact that if the Chinese were also good in terms of performance and better in price, they would buy from the Chinese.
In the story of the F-35 and reconnaissance of their TTX with the help of the S-400, I do not believe.
US air defense systems do not bring down US state planes.
And our S-400s will be knocked down if the Sultan wants.
This is the Americans and infuriates.

[ender]

who said that? the Greeks first fired only in 2013, 14 years after the purchase. and used only for training the air forces of NATO and Israel
and would buy, if not for the pressure of the United States. and now Erdogan is independent

[ender]

I'm afraid that not these journalists, not you, do not understand the meaning of the term - "integration"
For this, at least at the Russian complex, it is necessary to completely change the communication, encryption and frequency interpretation equipment to an analogue of NATO standards.

[Alex777]

I, in fact, by VUS Pvoshnik.
A little, but I understand what I mean.

[ender]

Well then, you should know that the Greek complex can only use the data of its own autonomous SOC. however, as delivered to the Turks

[Grazdanin]

Quote: ender

change communication, encryption and frequency interpretation equipment to an analogue of NATO standards.

Depends on the delivery, usually put the right one. Relations with France are well established in this regard.

[ender]

this is not for everyone and requires a certain level of technical cooperation or the availability of detailed technical documentation. There was no such information in the Turkish contract

[Grazdanin]

I agree, a matter of specific agreements.

[Alex777]

this is not for everyone and requires a certain level of technical cooperation or the availability of detailed technical documentation.

So it is.

There was no such information in the Turkish contract

And rightly so we don’t need it is NATO.
We need to shoot down these planes. And the Turks bought IMHO for this.
As for the Greeks, you certainly know that they were not the ones who bought the S-300. Cyprus. But the Turks were outraged and Greece took the S-300 to itself, and then for a long time thought about where to go. EMNIP PMU1 we have already removed from service.

[Grazdanin]

I understand that there was no delivery

[Alex777]

There were no supplies.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Alex777

But the Chinese are the main xerox of the planet. But they couldn’t yet

The short-witted scammers they are. No self-respecting company uses their products. There is a huge gap between products manufactured by foreign companies in China and those made by Chinese companies.

[Alex777]

Wow, you light it up. Just pioneering enthusiasm!
Let me tell you, in friendship, a little secret: there is no word "no" in the Chinese language.
They can do many things very efficiently.
But if you point your finger at what they cost, for example, $ 1000 and ask them to sell for 800, they agree, but in the head (and then in the product) they simplify everything to the right cost, reduce the cost of materials, components. The quality that for 1000 you just do not get for 800.
We have the only supplier of Chinese diesel engines for the Navy.
This is exclusively my IMHO, but in the first year there were a bunch of complaints about the quality of the engines. Broke at the first launches.
And then, a year later, all the problems disappeared as if by hand. Everything is working. I think that our "businessmen" have stopped pushing the Chinese for a price and life has improved.
China is a global factory. And high-quality, expensive products, and fakes.
But our ZKR, aircraft engines, special alloys for aircraft carriers and much more can not reproduce. But GDP does not sell secrets. Although he was very much asked about it.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Alex777

They can do many things very efficiently.
But if you point your finger at what they cost, for example, $ 1000 and ask them to sell for 800, they agree, but in the head (and then in the product) they simplify everything to the right cost, reduce the cost of materials, components. The quality that for 1000 you just do not get for 800.

Do you think this is the first time I've heard this fairy tale? The quality that gives Siemens, Cisco, Fujitsu and others like them, Chinese manufacturers do not even give. In the area where I work, in some cases, downtime of one hour a year is unacceptable. One factory known was somehow automated, one salesman, my colleague, pulled the same song as you, the plant’s chief engineer suggested putting all the Chinese equipment in a place that I and my colleague didn’t even know about and put Siemens on, that person isn’t The first year in charge of those factory condition.
We put Chinese engines only because French and German diesel engines are not available, if you had a choice, you would be the first to throw Chinese crafts overboard) (I exaggerate of course, they sold somewhere)

[Cyril G ...]

At the last Buyan 4 years were busy with fine-tuning DEU. Remade everything.
The border guards made it easier due to the loss of access to MTU, and the dance with the Tambourines with the Chinese, it was decided to bookmark Project 22460 to stop and resume construction of Project 10410 New with small stars

[Alex777]

You like to argue. What for?
This Porthos said: I fight because I fight.
I share reliable information.

Independent manufacturer of warships Zelenodolsk plant them. Gorky managed to get rid of the dire consequences of the “shipbuilding dieselgate” by his own missile defense system of project 21631 (code “Buyan-M”), convincing the Russian Ministry of Defense to switch to picking Chinese CHD622 diesels instead of German MTUs, which were banned due to international sanctions. At the launching ceremony of the Ingushetia IRC, it became known that the serial construction of the Zelenodolsk Buyans will grow to 12 ships. The ZPKB assured that Chinese diesel engines provided the ships with access to the sea, which proved to be effective in serving two MRCs as part of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
Source: https://realnoevremya.ru/articles/142082-zelenodolskiy-zavod-sdal-vosmoy-po-schetu-mrk-buyan-m

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Alex777

Zelenodolsk plant them. Gorky managed to save

They know how to work in Tatarstan, almost all production from Soviet times has been preserved and increased.

[Alex777]

Production of Tu-160 yes, saved.
And the shipyard is a separate story.
But Chinese engines work. It is Chinese.
Successfully finalized the German license.

Navy believes in "Chinese heart"
The Russian Navy approved the assembly of small missile ships (RTOs) of project 21631 developed by the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau with CHD622 marine diesel engines manufactured by the PRC to replace European high-speed MTUs, which were discontinued after the announcement of international sanctions in 2014-2015.

“With the Chinese engines, which were agreed by the command of the Russian Navy (in 2018, approx. Ed.), The sixth and seventh RTOs were completed,” Yakov Kushnir, chief designer of the ZPKB project, told real-time correspondent (we are talking about small rocket ships under the names "Orekhovo-Zuevo" and "Vyshny Volochek").

“Now, after him, the eighth ship of this project, called the Ingushetia, will go sailing,” continued Yakov Kushnir. And he made it clear that, despite doubts, the Chinese engines proved to be effective in serving these two ships with a "Chinese heart." Today they work on the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation and do not cause military complaints. At least, no complaints have been received from them.
Source: https://realnoevremya.ru/articles/142082-zelenodolskiy-zavod-sdal-vosmoy-po-schetu-mrk-buyan-m

[Cyril G ...]

I do not argue, I am not setting forth the facts from the press. So understandable? The FSB has decided to stop pr.22460 bookmark, stop, causal - diesel, and this is a marker. PSKR not RTOs at sea really have to go constantly ..
And by the way bookmarks Buyanov will also no longer be. Basta karapuziki. The dance with the tambourines with the last 3 Buoys was enough above the roof ...

[Alex777]

Do you know what complicated furniture they put on 22460?

[Cyril G ...]

Ask on pr.22100 - I will answer if you do not go beyond state secrets

[Alex777]

I won’t ask better.
And there is no sense in building Buyans when there are Karakurts.

[Grazdanin]

Since we were talking about China and C400, the news was that they refused to buy the following lots, allegedly due to the fact that our system is bad.

[Alex777]

Information from the OBS series.
What they ordered was received in China. There was no other talk.
When testing for the maximum range (250 km), missiles with ARLGSN were super satisfied. Read test reports so that fakes aren’t distributed.

[Grazdanin]

Yeah, Most likely they all lie, I read in the news sources that are not trustworthy.

[Alex777]

So it’s better.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Alex777

The Chinese have been trying for how many years, but have failed.
It doesn’t matter what they write to themselves.
Could - they would have bought the Turks. And so - with us.
They sold the S-400 to the Turks because Russia is profitable.
Both Indians and Chinese were sold for the same reason.
If Chemezov was responsible for the documents and correctly executed everything, then well done.
I do not overlook the dignity of the Turkish military-industrial complex. He is first class.
But the Chinese are the main xerox of the planet. But could not yet. Bought.

It seems you can seriously talk. The Chinese can not achieve stable quality, continuous achievement of the declared parameters. This is their key issue. For civilian purposes, it will work, if there are no strict requirements, I use Huawei and other Dlinka, if a serious project, then China is going through the forest. Due to the saved several tens of thousands of dollars, you can get into hundreds of thousands. The production culture in China is really low. They can copy, but by 95%, and these 5% are fundamental, therefore our air defense systems operate up to 10 m in height, they have 150.
The Turks have a high production culture, they take the example of the Germans. They are shaking hands in the west, keep their word, know how to negotiate. Many lead joint projects. It’s easier to lure western engineers to Turkey; western companies can easily make contact. For such countries, it is enough to simply obtain samples of equipment. The laws of physics are the same for everyone. And given access to quality components, even improve. Therefore, they are more dangerous than the Chinese.

[rocket757]

Five years for air defense systems now, this is a lot. There will be many tasks with which he will no longer cope ....
Attacks develop at a gallop ... defenses can be very behind.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: rocket757

Five years for air defense systems now

Although the Turks have their own achievements, but what you write about is fundamentally superior to what it is. It is clear when there are samples, technology is transferred and you can buy specialists, it’s done faster, but these programs are complicated. They began to make the same UAVs ten years after the start of the program.

[rocket757]

Quote: Grazdanin

what are you writing about fundamentally superior to what is.

Not about them finally. I just watch and note that the development of shock systems is now fully activated. Means of protection, we, too, are not just being modernized, but we are developing very new ones that are seriously different from the previous ones. At the same time, new shock systems are being intensively developed ... one to another, an integrated approach.

[Charik]

all military equipment and airplanes and tanks and ships with boats for 10-30 years-modernize and all

[rocket757]

And we will see. Will they be able to ask the modernized system is effectively struggling with new percussion means.

[ultra]

Quote: Grazdanin

Ukraine or Ukrainians can seriously help

How can they help?

[Dym71]

Quote: ultra

How can they help?

Advice naturally!

[tralflot1832]

In hryvnia or immediately in dollars, they pay for it. If the State Department has a sadness again in dollars. Well, "evil" Putin is not without him.

[210ox]

By what they helped Georgia.

[Alex777]

And how did Ukraine help Georgia?

[Grazdanin]

I do not know a more talented, smarter, more working, more beautiful people than the Slavs, in particular the Ukrainians. In any country, the Slavs are welcome, everywhere they become the intellectual elite, everywhere they are needed. They, like us, are not lucky for the leadership of the state, no more. And you continue to poison the fraternal peoples, consider Ukraine and Ukrainians flawed. The technical and intellectual potential in Ukraine will be enough for decades to come. Not everyone has been taken out yet.

[Alex777]

Do you have personal friends in Yuzhmash? How many people worked for him in the early 90's? How many and what qualifications remain at Yuzhmash today?
At Zorya-Mashproekt? Have you ever visited their site?
Look what happened to the Nicholas shipyards, on which the USSR built aircraft carriers?
What is the Ukraine cruiser and the factory where it stands at the pier? You know, probably, that they want to pay off many months of debts to employees in the RF by selling it for metal? You understand that valuable specialists do not expect such happiness for years?
Look at the story of Motor Sich, the Chinese and the Americans. The states themselves are not am and will not give others.
I have friends there and receive first-hand information.
Don't compare them to our guide. Their management did not even sell - they donated land to foreigners. Although independent experts laughed out loud when they were told in our television programs that it would come to this. "That will never happen." And that's all ...
People - yes, good, brotherly. But they chose those whom they chose and now, as they say in the proverb about Muscovites: "I ruined their housing problem."
By the way, read how they begin to relate to our leadership slowly in Ukraine ...
https://svpressa.ru/politic/news/269638/

[Egg]

For this sump full of ads minus you. Well, how can you seriously refer to this g ....

[Alf]

Quote: Grazdanin

In any country, the Slavs are welcome, everywhere they become the intellectual elite, everywhere they are needed.

In which country did the Slavs become an elite? Name in more detail.

[1976AG]

Quote: Grazdanin

Quote: Samara_63

in two years they will have their own complex

Well, not in two, about 5 years will definitely leave, besides it depends on what technologies were transferred. Ukraine or Ukrainians can seriously help.

Could help - you would have done it yourself.

[Cyril G ...]

There was no license as far as I know, which means that only the complex and training of specialists was sold.
Ukraine seriously will not help. They did not have an air defense system. All they did was repair their three hundred and Bukovs and the modern S-125 for the Arabs and possibly participate in the creation of an air defense system using the R-27 RVV for Yemen. This is extremely small.

So offhand for at least 7-10 years

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

There was no license as far as I know

Officially, it will be in the second installment.

Quote: Cyril G ...

Ukraine seriously will not help.

If without irony and propaganda husk. Read about “Ray,” “Spark,” “Quantum Radar,” “Radar.” These are really preserved enterprises, with great traditions and producing modern weapons. Few countries have such a heritage. People who made C400 studied in the same textbooks with Ukrainian colleagues. Turkey cooperates very closely with Ukraine, a lot of Soviet / Ukrainian developments are used in the new technology. If you transfer C400 and documents to people from these companies, they will quickly figure it out, be able to repeat and train Turkish engineers.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

If without irony and propaganda husk. Read about “Ray,” “Spark,” “Quantum Radar,” “Radar.”

I am absolutely serious. About these enterprises in the know. The successes of Ukrainians in air defense, I designated. I can add work on the radar. There was a delivery to Azerbaijan 80K6 as far as I remember ....
If there is a license for the 400th hundredth, this is one. And so they can and can develop SAMs from scratch. Question timing.

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Cyril G ...

And so they can and can develop SAMs from scratch. Question timing.

From scratch, this is a problem. When there are no missiles, radar, "electronics". Get working copies, at least partially documentation, hire specialists from various countries, buy components available on the market and the task becomes solvable, with predictable deadlines.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Grazdanin

When there are no rockets

If you think about it, then they could pile air defense systems only using R-27. SAM - a high-tech product. From zero to do - nonsense. They definitely had the production of R-27. And if I remember correctly, they did the ARGSN for export RVV-AE in the 90s.
So with a high probability the Yemeni self-made air defense system was born with the help of Ukrainian experts - moreover, it works. There are downed planes and drones. To know the consumption of rockets

[rocket757]

Sanctions, sanctions ... yes, the Sultan and the stripes make friends again, he will put great pleasure on our sanctions ... swam, we know!

[Grazdanin]

Russia cannot impose sanctions against Turkey, except on paper, as it was before. The economy is too weak and there are too many pain points that Turkey can put on.

[rocket757]

Quote: Grazdanin

Russia cannot impose sanctions against Turkey, except on paper, as it was before. The economy is too weak now and there are too many pain points that Turkey can put pressure on.

There are serious restrictions ... Turkey cannot seriously push, our schob could not answer three times! But whether they want it, it is a question of questions ???

[Grazdanin]

Can. From the closure of the straits to Nagorno-Karabakh. Underestimate the Turks very much. The fact that they do not exacerbate means that it is not profitable for them now, and trading is usually more profitable than fighting.

[ultra]

But is Nagorno-Karabakh already a territory of Russia?

[Insurgent]

Quote: ultra

But is Nagorno-Karabakh already a territory of Russia?

No, of course ... But all Transcaucasia is a zone of interests of Russia ...

And separately. Weird that the topic, which in one way or another speaks about Turkey, has not yet manifested Azerbaijani "pro-Turkish diaspora"

[Grazdanin]

Quote: Insurgent

But all of Transcaucasia, this is the zone of interests of Russia ...

Moreover, Armenia is the only country that can be called an ally in that region.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Insurgent

Azerbaijani "pro-Turkish diaspora"

Interestingly, these funny guys even know that they have different faiths with the Turks?

[Insurgent]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Interestingly, these funny guys even know that they have different faiths with the Turks?

Do not know But no matter how many have come across here, everyone is fawning before the Turks ...

[Cyril G ...]

They don’t want to live with their own mind, a stern host with a whip is needed. The Russians were too kind ....

[Oquzyurd]

We just live with our own mind. Here you are, I doubt it. Since the bearer of such a psychological moment and the thought "a stern master with a whip is needed," he cannot live with his own or someone else's mind, he simply lives, since breathing arises by itself, the process is out of control, this is how the body works.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Here you are, I doubt. Since the bearer of such a psychological moment and the thought "a harsh master with a whip is needed" cannot live with his own or someone else's mind, he simply lives, since breathing arises by itself, the process is out of control, this is how the organism works.

Ek bakes you ..... So I see that and sing. The owner is what you need, not me. I already look at philosophy drastically drawn.
And remember, a single faith completely allowed for some reason the Shiites and Sunites to actively slaughter each other in the name of Allah. How is that by the way? However, you can not answer the question was rhetorical ..

[Oquzyurd]

I don’t answer, but I don’t pass by to insulting attacks either. (It’s impossible to humiliate others. It’s not philosophy, but the reality is that. Many do not understand this, since they are far from reality) I laid out the existing religious situation in Azerbaijan and Turkey today. not satisfied, not my problem.

[mdsr]

Quote: Oquzyurd

I do not answer, but I will not pass by to offensive attacks either.

Jeyhun, forgive him, for he himself does not know what he writes. Not everyone in Russia thinks like him.

[WOLF330]

What do you care about Shiites and Sunnis? You first understand each other. Your wars with Belarus: 1368-1372, 1376, 1378, 1386, 1399, 1402, 1405, 1406-1408, 1445-1449, 1487-1494, 1500-1503, 1507-1508, 1512-1522, 1534-1537, 1558 -1583, 1604-1618, 1632-1634, 1654-1667, 1733-1735, 1792, 1793, 1794, 1795, 1830-1831, 1863-1864, 1920, 1934.
And how is it by the way?

[Cyril G ...]

Silently, I don’t know what kind of wars with Belarus you are actually talking about. Have a drink of Uzbek? Belarus created for the first time by the Bolsheviks
I know about the wars with the Principality of Lithuania and Russian (the so-called Zmagars do not like to remember this), which was in union with the Kingdom of Poland. The Orthodox there were quite discriminated by faith, and by origin. The tycoons were completely catholicized. The process of the lane.
And especially happy in 1934. And then what was the point? But I know the Non-Aggression Treaty of Poland and Nazi Germany ... Well it is necessary !!!!

Not everyone in Russia thinks like him.

Am I Charlie? It happens. Not even 25 percent in Russia think like you.

Not philosophy, but realities are such. Many do not understand this, since they are far from realities)

It is noticeable how far you are from realities ....

You are funny!

You’re just a clown. Angry only confused in dates.

[WOLF330]

So nobody clashes with you on clowning So all the states were created by the Bolsheviks? Is this what you are taught in your schools? Do you even know the history of your state, the history of its formation, how and by whom it originated and how many years it has stories? And check your RNA with AUG just in case, I promise, you will be disappointed!

[Cyril G ...]

The most important clown flashed .....

So all the states were created by the Bolsheviks? laughing. Is that what they teach you in your schools?

Clown, I didn’t say that, these are all your dirty fantasies .... Tell me, how will you find Belarus until 1919, okay? However, I lied to you, I am not interested in what you say, because you have nothing to say.

Do you even know the history of your state, the history of its formation, how and by whom it originated and how many years it has stories?

Unlike you, I’m a clown even though I know how it was not from textbooks but from documents. And you feel the formation of zero. Zero then bish. Antlers are just a rod.

And check your RNA with AUG just in case, I promise, you will be disappointed! wink

You are all somehow concerned with the inferiority complex. Does it bother you so much !!!? For example, I do not.
That's all, the conversation is over. You can be of interest only from the point of view of studying your national complexes. And this is not in the field of my interests. Find a specialist with a special profile and pour out his soul. Perhaps it’s better. The doctor is waiting for you, in short ..

[WOLF330]

Now deny the above? And which of us is a clown? Do you even learn to write correctly. The clown and the clown got it here)) You’re obviously jarring, but when there are no arguments, you immediately start talking nonsense People like you, even in your homeland, are not in demand. Live longer as a warning to the future generation

[WOLF330]

I will not say anything about Ukraine, Georgia, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. I will not spoil your image as a representative of the "exceptional nation". You don't even get along with each other)) You are funny!

[Oquzyurd]

If you want something fawned over you, then contact the address - "outpost" in the South Caucasus. We do not have such a habit, as we have honor and pride. Turks are our blood brothers, that says it all.

[WOLF330]

How so can Jeyhun ?! Their outpost gave them religion, their three heroes were treated in a hospital in the Armenian Highlands. Is such a thing forgotten?

[Insurgent]

Quote: KURT330

Their outpost gave them religion, their three heroes were treated in a hospital in the Armenian Highlands. Is such a thing forgotten?

In cartoons taught history, young?

And if you strain and imagine that religion came to Russia from Byzantium (Greece)?
How to get a forehead wrinkle, or all for nothing?

[WOLF330]

It’s violet from where religion came to you. You keep it in the bulk of the main one on any threshold. It is you who have no relation to religion. But you can be an atheist with a good sense and live based on at least some values, and here you are doing exactly those things that any religion and common sense rejects. In addition, a man is also somewhat different from the opposite sex, this is abstinence at least from gossip, slander and slander. A man’s word must have weight, and his mouth a curtain. Control the gunner and you will be happy

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Insurgent

How to get a forehead wrinkle, or all for nothing?

All for nothing ....

[Insurgent]

Quote: Oquzyurd

If you want to be swan before you

But we don’t want to be fooled , we also do not want you to be a Turkish "pocket" outpost in the Transcaucasus ...

[Oquzyurd]

"pocket" outpost in Transcaucasia .. I wonder, Armenia whose "pocket outpost"? Your trouble is that you do not perceive the "normal state" as a necessary given for yourself, and for others, too. Why is it always possible to have two positions, 1. The humiliating counterpart 2. The humiliated sycophant. You can never get together, admit that there is also 3. Normal, without the first two. It is possible life and such, I will surprise you.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Oquzyurd

Interestingly, Armenia whose "pocket outpost"?

The Armenians are allies and partners who are not coddling before Russia, and you, for the Turks, are ordinary Janissaries, and the whole story

[Oquzyurd]

"Armenians are allies and partners who do not flatter Russia" Not only me, probably everyone sees and willingly believes

[WOLF330]

It’s not worth it to impose your quality on others! You already understand the Slavs among themselves.

[Oquzyurd]

Please tell us how our faith is different?))) If you mean Sunites and Shiites, then they all believe in Allah (God), all have the Prophet Muhammad, one holy book of the Koran, and everyone worships before Kaba in Mecca.
And, in Azerbaijan and Turkey, Sunites and Shiites, Christians, Catholics, Orthodox, representatives of Judaism, etc. live peacefully together. For Turkic countries, people, citizenship and attachment to their country are more important. Religious freedom is one of the fundamental rights of a citizen.

[WOLF330]

And how is it different?))

[Oquzyurd]

The Turks will never sell these systems, especially to the USA. The topic is empty, sucked from the lips of a senator. Why is it manifested in such a topic? We save energy for real topics

[Insurgent]

Quote: Insurgent

It is strange that the Azerbaijani "pro-Turkish diaspora" has not yet appeared in the topic, which in one way or another speaks about Turkey.

here you go ... "Nakarkal" ...
"Pro-turkish landing"landed. Not numerous, but aggressive, and determined .

[Cyril G ...]

EEE Eastern people always throw a crowd at one .... And why am I not surprised.
Yes, and about the actions of the Turks in the North Caucasus in the 90s, I personally have not forgotten.

[Zaurbek]

Well then a lot of people break down in the Russian Federation

[rocket757]

Maybe it’s a shame, there is no doubt, but it can be answered, three times .... but these are all our fantasies, but what kind of fantasies are in the minds of the main ones, on the one and the other hand, this is a question.

[Alf]

Quote: Grazdanin

From overlapping straits

On what basis? Are the straits already owned by Russia?

[Alex777]

Sanctions, sanctions ... yes, the Sultan and the stripes make friends again, he will put great pleasure on our sanctions ... swam, we know!

You just do not forget that the military coup in Turkey was quite serious. And that the conspirators did not take great power to the streets only because their main focus was on the physical elimination of Erdogan on vacation. Nobody left him any chances to retire. And when Erdogan received a warning from our special forces attack - he managed to escape half an hour before their arrival.
And taking off from the airfield, he asked Merkel for refuge, just in case. And he was refused.
He will no longer be able to make friends in a new way. Would you believe the Americans again in his place? Entrusted them with their life? He cleaned so many soldiers there after the coup that he has no way back.

There are serious restrictions ... Turkey cannot seriously push, our schob could not answer three times! But whether they want it, it is a question of questions ???

Once already. Repeat is much easier.
Only Erdogan already knows how it was and what will happen again if ours impose sanctions. For him, this is a loss of power and death.
In the literal sense of the word.

[rocket757]

Quote: Alex777

For him, this is a loss of power and death.

Your words, yes to the Sultan's ears .....
Only he will not listen to ANYONE, himself with a mustache.
Then, well, they will demolish the Sultan, OUR from this will be easier ??? Think about it ...
There are NO ... even fellow travelers there, everything will be immediately deployed away from us!

[Alex777]

Your words, yes to the Sultan's ears .....

And you see how he talks with GDP.
Listens askance, bowing his head low.

Then, well, they will demolish the Sultan, OUR from this will be easier ??? Think about it ...
There are NO ... even fellow travelers there, everything will be immediately deployed away from us!

I can reassure you. In the Turkish army, there are much more supporters of partnership with Russia. States on this subject are very worried.
The Atlantists were all transplanted. Inzherlik’s command staff was badly cleaned.
I don’t think that after Idlib something has changed a lot. And there were no other reasons. Arms purchase and discussion of the Su-35 did not occur out of the blue. This is the consensus of the current leaders of Turkey. They still defend it with dignity.
Well, the refusal, a couple of years ago, of the participation of Turkish military personnel in the NATO exercises, who saw targets with a portrait of Erdogan (the coup d'étails got involved, forgot to change the prepared one back), is also quite a topic.
Erdogan will never forget this. And the GDP did not make such mistakes.

[rocket757]

Different opinions listened / read .....
We will not argue, because we ourselves will see everything ....
And so, I bet that there will be another scam for our "wise men", on a large scale or not, but it will be for sure.

[Alex777]

Will we cover it? When will scam?

[rocket757]

Easy .... I put Cognac (Chacha homemade 3 stars), for the election in stripes, they will throw our children in a childish way!

[Alex777]

Agreed. I’ll find Chacha for my part - not a question.
US Elections November 3rd. December 3, a semblance of results.

[rocket757]

Oh class, there will be a gift for my jam day

[Alex777]

I have successfully proposed this.

[rocket757]

Good luck.
Here I tried to argue several times ... did not grow together.
Boom to wait for events.

[Alex777]

If the coronavirus does not bother us.
I see no other reasons.

[rocket757]

As many responsible doctors say, we’ll all be there, gradually ... and there it’s already written to someone as a kind.
Well, be hello!

[no better place for]

And so here once rumored rumors over time are perceived as facts. Ours warned, Merkel asked for asylum. Throws of unknown sources are taken on faith, if she likes

[Alex777]

This is common knowledge.
It was in detail discussed.
Find if it is important to you.

[no better place for]

Everyone knows, but no one knows the source. And for some reason, only the ru segment knows.
And about Merkel asked, this disa, like the others, appeared on the night of the coup. When the fate of Erdogan was unknown. And then he appeared at the airport of Istanbul, not Berlin

[WOLF330]

So storytellers, after all, and there is a school

[Cyril G ...]

The key here is the Bosphorus, the rest are trifles of life.

[rocket757]

Close it, this is a direct military confrontation ... but open it for NATO, who can interfere?
One hope is that he undressed with everyone around ....
Weak hope, by the way, because Uncle Sam can very much manage everything there in his own way.
In general, one way out .... or maybe there is no one simple way out, go figure it out. This is the east, which means a lot, a lot of turbidity, in which ours are constantly stuck, at most do not indulge !!!

[Alex777]

Russia cannot introduce sanctions against Turkey

Already imposed sanctions. Barely the Turks persuaded the GDP to cancel them.

[rocket757]

Just lucky, sho the sultan and neighbors quarreled by that time. But it’s not forever, it’s fixable, if it comes close .... you just need to sell our interes more expensively, and this is for him two fingers ....., correct your Wishlist a bit, it's harder, but if you need to!

[Alex777]

It was just luck

Lucky. But not what you write, but the fact that the American military coup failed. And now the Sultan of the GDP owes his life.
Underestimate this at all. But in vain.

[rocket757]

Quote: Alex777

And now the Sultan of the GDP owes his life.
Underestimate this at all. But in vain.

Are you an expert on the east? Their rulers?
There are situations, events that become apparent, more or less predictable based on established practice, facts, historical episodes / events !!!
There is an opinion in the WORLD that it is DANGEROUS to bully Russia! But KIDALOVO ... yes, please, one, two ... you will be patted and covered !!! then that "roof" will rip off you for sure, but these are trifles, compared to the world ...
So try to convince the different quirks back, and I'll look at your attempts ... even without a sarcastic smile, because I DO NOT LAUGH!

[WOLF330]

Et about tomatoes with lemons and tourists? after which the Turkish defense made a leap ..

[tralflot1832]

The contract for C 400 for seven seals. If you sold the C 400 to a NATO member, then this was taken into account, like Greece at the time With the C00 .. Everything rests on whether it sees the C 400 F 22, F35 and B 2.A if it suddenly sees. then there will be significant losses for decades. Someone was sitting at the C 400 control panel on the VO. What can and cannot we can guess.

[Grazdanin]

Greece can be overwhelmed with Russian weapons, not fundamentally. The West and the US are afraid of Turkey’s gain, technology transfer is critical. By themselves, these s400 do not play a role, they are too few.

[ultra]

Quote: Grazdanin

technology transfer is critical

And what technologies were (will) be transferred to Turkey?

[tralflot1832]

I don’t know how the C 400 starts up. Maybe the key to the barn lock was handed over to which the command kung of the C 400 control closes. That's all the technologies that are available to the Turks.

[Jack O'Neill]

With 400 F 22, F35 and B 2. And if you suddenly see. Amers will then have a decent loss for decades.

But what if I write to you that Patriot sees the Su-57?
But what if I write to you that Stealth technology does not make the aircraft invisible, but makes it invisible, which reduces the distance of its detection?

[tralflot1832]

The question at what distance didn’t put it a little bit, of course hardly noticeable.

[Jack O'Neill]

The question at what distance was a little misunderstood, of course, of course, is low. Something the Amers and Turks do not grow together in this experiment.

Conditions may vary. The Americans shot the EPR at one angle, the Turks at another. This error is called.

[Charik]

It is not surprising that the Patriot can detect the Su57-only from a shorter distance than for example the Su24 or 27-all this stealth-stealth coating leads to this and reduces the detection range

[Jack O'Neill]

It is not surprising that the Patriot can detect the Su57-only from a shorter distance than for example the Su24 or 27-all this stealth-stealth coating leads to this and reduces the detection range

Thanks, Cap!

[Charik]

For what? And no matter what Cap you call me, Sebastian Perrero is a black death trader

[spectr]

I remember the fighters said that one of the requirements for the C400 is that it was similar to the C300. With such demands, something revolutionary could not be shoved there. Most likely, the improved C300 with a newer element base (which is not new at all over the hill) is the output.
As I understand it, if the C400 is drained by the United States, then the operating life will have to be reduced and something to replace it (or a major modernization) will be introduced faster.

[Jack O'Neill]

Turkey will not spoil its reputation, so I don’t think it’s worth fearing the sale of S-400 USA.
But here it will be quite possible for American specialists to inspect these complexes in Turkey, maybe even for free.
But it would not be bad if Russia or Turkey submitted a copy of the contract, which stipulates this.

[ultra]

Quote: Jack O'Neill

But it would not be bad if Russia or Turkey submitted a copy of the contract, which stipulates this.

To which address should you send a copy of the contract?

[Jack O'Neill]

To which address should you send a copy of the contract? wassat

https://register.state.gov/contactus/contactusform
Forward.

[Dym71]

Quote: Jack O'Neill

But here it will be quite possible for American specialists to inspect these complexes in Turkey, maybe even for free.

Aha, some American "experts" have deprived the Turks of penguins, and give to others everything for free, a Turkish pin in their visor!

[Charik]

who needs a copy of the contract for the Americans? - ..I .. (here)

[Interlocutor]

But it would not be bad if Russia or Turkey submitted a copy of the contract, which stipulates this.

To whom to introduce.

[parusnik]

The whole question is what specific sanctions and against whom Russia can "apply"?

.... Indeed ... with sanctions against Turkey, it’s clear that there are methods against Kostya Saprykin ... But let's say the Saudis ask and offer such a price that it’s hard to resist ... What are the sanctions against them?

[APASUS]

The S-400 is perhaps the only system that NATO countries cannot disconnect remotely, in this regard there is no point in selling at all.

[Interlocutor]

The S-400 is perhaps the only system that NATO countries cannot disconnect remotely, in this regard there is no point in selling at all.

But we can turn it off

[Cyril G ...]

We are obviously less afraid than the hegemon who has shrunken and lost its shores. The states of Turkey armed in my opinion, very selectively deliberately leaving holes ...

[AVA77]

The Internet is a terrible force! One senator foolishly memorialized something, they all suffered. And after half an hour, we discuss this at VO, an hour later we picked up ekperdy and we again discuss it at VO. Was there a boy?

[GELEZNII_KAPUT]

The Turks will not sell anything, they don’t want their NATO colleagues in dangerous business to bomb them if something goes wrong!

[Junior Warrant Officer]

Sanctions again ...
Now sanctions against Turkey, tomatoes or what?
Or is there an even trickier plan to dismantle the South Stream pipeline ?!

[Tuzik]

Hmm, they’ve been warned. Such a development of events could be assumed.

[raki-uzo]

The main problem of those "born in the USSR" is that they believe that everyone else is also capable, like them, of shit, if there is a benefit. That's why they have such paranoia senilis (a kind of senile delirium).

[Metlik]

Running on a rake with a poster "you can't get off with tomatoes."

[Grazdanin]

Yeah, then I will write a letter with regrets)

[MIG00001]

And who is stopping Yerdagan from selling S400 in a quiet place and you can only sell the stuffing and leave dummies for Russia

[kris_67]

"Russia can apply sanctions" - will they ban tomatoes? Yes, and will ban direct flights, as in the case of the downed Su24, everyone will fly through Minsk.

[Interlocutor]

"Russia can apply sanctions" - will they ban tomatoes?

Limit construction companies.

[bar]

Russia has the right to apply sanctions against Ankara if it agrees to the US proposal to resell Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems to it. But Turkey will not do it.

Well, why bother commenting on this nonsense of senators senators?

[Lieutenant Ivolgin]

Sell ​​a missile system to one of the NATO countries and hope that they will not share it with America, and then frighten with some kind of sanctions. It has to be a selling hide or a down. I can’t even imagine such a thing that STALIN would sell our Katyushas to Italy or Romania because loot is needed. But the GDP has sold and many consider it a great step, a great policy. Putin patriots, go ahead! I look forward to harsh comments. And especially if they give me "minuses", I'm just SO upset! I can't sleep. Dislikes and emoticons generally knock me out of my life for many months.

[Al Asad]

How can political impotent people apply sanctions?
Banning tomatoes is not a sanction

[General Ermolov]

From the very beginning, I had a hunch that Turkey was buying S-400 air defense systems to transfer them to the United States, or to merge all the parameters of this Yankee system, just as Greece leaked the Yankees to the S-300 air defense systems. Turkey is a NATO country and it has never been and never will be a friend of Russia, so that any meanness can be expected from Turks.

[Alexey from Perm]

Like some sanctions, we won’t buy tomatoes! Here!

[WOLF330]

Quote: Insurgent

we also do not want you to be a Turkish "pocket" outpost in Transcaucasia ...

Are the girls naked? Azerbaijan has never been anybody's outpost, unlike your "allies". And in Turkey, Azerbaijan and Iran, there are mainly ethnic Turks, about 110 million. Whoever has an outpost, everyone knows about it. In Armenia, they say June 24 completely banned the broadcast of Russian channels

[kutuz]

"Russia can apply sanctions" - will they stop buying tomatoes from the Turks and tourists will have to fly through Minsk on vacation?

[viktor.]

What sanctions will Russia apply? Concern? Well maybe Tomatoes!