Military Review

German press: Putin avoids sensitive issues regarding Germany in an article on World War II

107

Discussing the reasons for the outbreak of World War II, Putin for some reason avoids sensitive issues that may be unpleasant for the inhabitants of Germany. Perhaps the fact is that today a strong partnership has developed between Moscow and Berlin. Ulrich Hayden discusses this topic in his article published in the German edition of Heise, analyzing an article by Vladimir Putin on the causes of the outbreak of World War II.


He believes that the Russian president in this way shows political tact, trying not to hurt the feelings of his German partners.

In the article, Putin denies that Hitler and Stalin collaborated. Moreover, he does not consider the head of the Soviet state infallible and severely criticizes him for domestic politics. At the same time, Putin notes that Stalin perfectly understood foreign policy risks and correctly minimized them.

Putin considers the Versailles Peace one of the main reasons for the outbreak of World War II, as a result of which Germany found itself in a humiliated position, which led to an increase in revenge.

He mentions British and American business circles helping the Nazis, considering them one of the main reasons for the outbreak of war. At the same time, the Russian president, to the surprise of the German author, never mentioned the internal reasons that led Germany to the war. For some reason, he did not say a word about the rapid growth among the Germans of anti-Semitism, militarism, anti-Slavic sentiments and a loyal spirit, which caused the Nazis and Hitler to come to power, who unleashed the Second World War.

Based on this, Hayden concludes that Putin deliberately avoids those that might seem unpleasant to German partners. Indeed, Russia has recently developed excellent business relations with them.
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 29 June 2020 16: 38
    -17 qualifying.
    Putin deliberately avoids those that might seem unpleasant to German partners. Indeed, Russia has recently developed excellent business relations with them.
    Germans it certainly .... it is possible to not stand on ceremony with our people, here to deceive, there to deprive ..og.
    1. Misha Honest
      Misha Honest 29 June 2020 19: 09
      -6
      Quote: Dead Day
      Germans it certainly .... it is possible to not stand on ceremony with our people, here to deceive, there to deprive ..og.

      Plutocracy, oligarchy .... Everything is fine for a Russian peasant - this already happened before 17)
      1. businessv
        businessv 1 July 2020 09: 54
        0
        Quote: Misha Honest
        Everything is fine for a Russian peasant - this was already before 17)
        It's hard to disagree! Is that gene memory? Why our bureaucrats and thieves-oligarchs, meanly plundered the legacy of the Union, do not understand one simple thing - this will not always be! The people will not endure forever, the 1917th proved it and will prove it again, but only when we wake up.
    2. credo
      credo 29 June 2020 19: 13
      18
      Quote: Dead Day
      Putin deliberately avoids those that might seem unpleasant to German partners. Indeed, Russia has recently developed excellent business relations with them.
      Germans it certainly .... it is possible to not stand on ceremony with our people, here to deceive, there to deprive ..og.

      You’ve been so hurt by the opinion of some Ulrich H. from Germany there that you are ready to immediately extrapolate his opinion to the Russian population.
      It is the usual private opinion of an ordinary journalist who believes that if in Putin's article some issue is not covered too strongly, then this has some deep connotation. "Thoughtful" conclusion.
      1. businessv
        businessv 1 July 2020 10: 05
        0
        Quote: credo
        if Putin’s article doesn’t cover the issue too much, then this has some deep implication.
        You are trying to deny the obvious! Of course, there are questions that are "not too highlighted", to put it mildly, and this is absolutely correct! Why stir up the memory of partners with things that they regret without this reminder ?! It seems to you that this is the opinion of "some Ulrich ...," but this is the opinion of one that can shape the opinion of many. Living and working in Germany, I was surprised by the knowledge of the local people about the history of their compatriots living in our territory. The German Republic with its capital in Engels (existed until 1942) is known not only to the outgoing generation, but also to young people who still call it Volga Germany (Wolgadeutschland), and know who its founder (Catherine II) is. So everything is not as simple as it sometimes seems.
    3. Nick
      Nick 30 June 2020 09: 18
      +2
      Quote: Dead Day
      .that with our people you can’t stand on ceremony, cheat here, cheat there ..og.

      bank card number indicate. Take a ruble, you are deprived of our ...
    4. NordUral
      NordUral 30 June 2020 13: 12
      -2
      The main thing is the "northern streams", and our people, the memory of that war - everything is secondary. Unhappy Germans, tyrant Stalin and Stalinist repressions.
      But so that our gas (once ours) blew to Germany to the last cubic meter.
      And Russia will be killed.
  2. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 29 June 2020 16: 43
    17
    The Germans do not deny what they did to us during the Second World War.
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 18: 50
      -1
      Quote: tralflot1832
      don't deny

      The stump is clear, where should they go? Request cancellation of the decisions of the MVT?
      Another thing is that they are gradually getting rid of the guilt complex, yes. And even timidly, but more and more loudly, they are trying to call the bombing of the Allies a war crime. Which is essentially true.
    2. major147
      major147 29 June 2020 19: 14
      +4
      Quote: tralflot1832
      The Germans do not deny what they did to us during the Second World War.

      They repented. And one cannot help recalling humanitarian aid from the Germans in the 90s.
    3. orionvitt
      orionvitt 29 June 2020 20: 02
      +4
      Quote: tralflot1832
      The Germans do not deny what they did to us during the Second World War.

      Yes, everything is clear with the Germans. The whole message of Putin was to those who have gone to the brink, former allies and especially to the "new democracies" who have lost their shores in general, and who, moreover, all as one, during the war, fought on Hitler's side. and conversation.
  3. Tusv
    Tusv 29 June 2020 16: 46
    -5
    Give a damn. And if Putin did not go around hot topics? You can’t work with Europe. Do you need this?
    1. Pereira
      Pereira 29 June 2020 16: 58
      17
      The USSR fought not with Hitler Germany, but with the united Hitler Europe (minus England). This is what Putin did not say.
      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 19: 33
        -7
        Putin, I believe, had no intention of banging his boot, making angry accusations, and doing Fulton the other way around. Maybe the Germans saw the signal if it was and this journalist was right.
        1. Normal ok
          Normal ok 29 June 2020 21: 19
          -2
          Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
          Maybe the Germans saw the signal, if it was right and this journalist was right.

          The authors of such articles are carefully looking for anything in the foreign press that can be added to the GDP. But the fact is that the general opinion about the Putin article, and that of Germany, is negative. So, it is more correct to replace "Germans" in comments with "German".
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 21: 51
            -5
            You are probably right. hi
  4. demo
    demo 29 June 2020 16: 49
    +2
    Discussing the reasons for the outbreak of World War II, Putin for some reason avoids sensitive issues that may be unpleasant for the inhabitants of Germany.

    I don’t get it?
    The Germans that became 100% sadomasochists?
    They want everyone to call in their own words?
    And they poured not only salt, but also pepper on the wounds?

    But you can.
    Of course not Putin.
    But there are others.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 29 June 2020 17: 23
      0
      not masochists. they’re just being raised like that. remember that war and understand what they did. I would not say a word to repent. just accept what their country has done. and not deny this fact. There is certainly already modern youth who are beginning to forget, or someone is teaching them from the outside. I do not know. but for now, most of them are holding back and trying to keep within.
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 29 June 2020 17: 38
        +4
        I suppose the Germans should know who incited and incited them.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 29 June 2020 17: 41
          +1
          this is from another opera. this is harder. but I completely agree with you.
        2. major147
          major147 29 June 2020 19: 16
          +2
          Quote: Pereira
          I suppose the Germans should know who incited and incited them.

          I think they know this, but will they draw any conclusions?
    2. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 18: 52
      -5
      Quote: demo
      The Germans that became 100% sadomasochists?
      They want everyone to call in their own words?

      And what are you going to surprise the Germans with? Is there something that is hidden from them?
      1. demo
        demo 29 June 2020 19: 40
        +2
        To hide and remind are two different things.
        Here is the Mausoleum covered with plywood in the days of "national unity" on Red Square - is this a cover-up or not a reminder?
        Think at your leisure.
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 20: 03
          -2
          Quote: demo
          Think at your leisure.

          to be honest, I'm not going to waste time on this, no doubt, fascinating brain training - "what did the authorities want to say when they draped the mausoleum?" Let the hamsters take these signals from the authorities like "trembling of my left calf is a great sign." I have no time.
          1. demo
            demo 29 June 2020 20: 06
            0
            Received. Appreciated.
        2. Vladimir Mashkov
          Vladimir Mashkov 30 June 2020 10: 59
          +1
          I also do not like that Putin closes the Mausoleum with plywood on holidays. But I, in contrast to the "francophone", thought about it. It is clear that Putin, despite the opinion of the majority of Russians, has a different opinion on this issue and there is no reason to think that he will change it, even if he did not change himself on the 75th anniversary of Victory. Why is he doing this? It is difficult to say, he does not give a clear unambiguous answer (in any case, I did not hear it; perhaps I missed it). On the one hand, he recognizes some of the undoubted merits of the USSR and the Soviet state. On the other hand, he condemns certain moments of Soviet history and Soviet leaders. But he clearly refuses to accept the parades beloved by the people from the rostrum of the Mausoleum and collect their power there! Thus, emphasizing the difference between the current government and the Soviet. And, perhaps, the reason is that all the guests from HIS government rostrum will not fit and comfortably sit on the rostrum. Perhaps he does not want to rise above everyone else as the leaders of the USSR. And, perhaps, the reason is that he does not consider himself equal to the leaders of the Soviet state and, therefore, is located at the foot of the Mausoleum, closer to the people ... However, the latter is more likely from the field of conspiracy theories.

          One thing is clear: the majority of the people support it, having a different opinion on this issue and a number of others. Why? Probably there is WHAT! Weighing the pros and cons, people opt for!

          And against Putin only you - left and right radicals, and the "fifth column" - agents of the West and the West itself. You are all working together! Fortunately, you are in the minority.
        3. Rzzz
          Rzzz 30 June 2020 14: 21
          -1
          Quote: demo
          Here is the Mausoleum covered with plywood in the days of "national unity" on Red Square - this is

          ... this is an attempt to falsify history. Tomorrow, the new constitution will be voted on, and they will probably not be closed anymore.
  5. Pravodel
    Pravodel 29 June 2020 16: 49
    +9
    Surprisingly the very surprise of the German Ulrich Hayden. Putin chewed everything and put it on shelves, and not only on shelves, but also on sticks, by putting the appropriate marker, a comment in the right place. He said that the reason for the 2nd World War was the incompleteness of the 1st World War, the humiliation and robbery of Germany, in the Treaty of Versailles. The state of German society was not considered at all and is not being considered, because it is a derivative of the Treaty of Versailles. The rise of anti-Semitism, militarism, anti-Slovenism is all a consequence, not a cause. The reason is the humiliation and robbery of Germany, in the Treaty of Versailles because the Anglo-Saxons and the French wanted to turn Germany into one of their colonies. In total, it turned out what happened.
    1. Tusv
      Tusv 29 June 2020 16: 59
      0
      Quote: The Truth
      He said the reason for the 2nd World War

      He didn’t say it was colonial. These "partners" of ours fought for their colonies. "Gentlemen, you beasts" - a phrase from one of the best films
  6. prior
    prior 29 June 2020 16: 50
    +2
    Politics for the sake of "dough" is politics.
  7. Kurare
    Kurare 29 June 2020 16: 54
    +3
    For some reason, he did not say a word about the rapid growth among the Germans of anti-Semitism, militarism, anti-Slavic sentiments and a loyal spirit, which led to the Nazis and Hitler coming to power ..

    And here Mr. Hayden is wrong. The primary reason was still the so-called. The Versailles "Peace Treaty", which led to the ruin of the already defeated Germany in WWI. Famine began in Germany, but the government regularly paid reparations. This is what became the primary reason for the coming to power of the Nazis, who professed a misanthropic ideology.
    1. Kuzmitsky
      29 June 2020 17: 21
      +6
      In the USSR, hunger was stronger than in Germany, and more than once. But no change of power happened and no fascists came to power. By the way, Italy did not pay reparations to anyone, and there was no famine there, if I am not mistaken, and the Nazis came to power even earlier than in Germany.

      Germany suffered most not even from ruin, although it was, but from a ban on creating a strong and technically equipped army. Then, however, they helped circumvent this ban.

      And the Germans suffered from the fact that they seem to be a great nation, and others rule the world. Naturally, they supported Hitler.

      By the way, today the Germans do not deny their guilt for the outbreak of World War II. Moreover, they call themselves the only ones. who unleashed her.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 29 June 2020 17: 32
        -2
        If the GDP of such advisers, advised, then this is the complete g g about.
        Indeed, few people love, especially about their sins, but they are forced to reckon with it, unlike ... its ignorant silence.
        RAKE, RAKE, RAKE.
      2. Pereira
        Pereira 29 June 2020 17: 40
        +3
        Moreover, they call themselves the only ones. who unleashed her.

        We should tell them about the role of the Anglo-Saxons.
      3. Kurare
        Kurare 29 June 2020 17: 40
        +1
        Quote: Kuzmitsky
        In the USSR, hunger was stronger than in Germany, and more than once.

        Let's not compare two different situations.
        Quote: Kuzmitsky
        By the way, Italy didn’t pay reparations to anyone ..

        And where does Italy? Is it really on the side of Austria-Hungary and Germany in the WWI fought? And the Nazis came there for a completely different reason.
        Quote: Kuzmitsky
        Germany suffered most not even from ruin, although it was, but from a ban on creating a strong and technically equipped army.

        Nothing like this. After losing in WWII, there were certainly revanchist sentiments, but in Germany it was understood that the war was lost.
        Quote: Kuzmitsky
        And the Germans suffered from the fact that they seem to be a great nation, and others rule the world.

        Here - I agree. And the National Socialists played on this very skillfully. Even the name of the party "captivates".
        Quote: Kuzmitsky
        By the way, today the Germans do not deny their guilt for the outbreak of World War II. Moreover, they call themselves the only ones. who unleashed her.

        Yes, this is really the opinion of the majority. But, the new generation is already starting to think differently. And the reason for this is the "new vision" of the causes of WWII in the West, in fact, rewriting history.
      4. parusnik
        parusnik 29 June 2020 18: 47
        0
        Hunger was stronger in the USSR than in Germany
        .... Especially post-war, if you recall how many people were killed by the Germans, how many villages, villages, villages destroyed, I’m not talking about the cities, how many people were driven to Germany, how many millions of cattle, IDCs were taken to Germany .. the USSR is to blame. .. Germany attacked him ...
        1. Kuzmitsky
          29 June 2020 19: 01
          +3
          There was also a post-war famine, father told me, he found it. I don’t even want to get into this discussion, it was not easy there. But here we are talking about 20-30 years. Neither after the 21st year, nor after the 33rd change of government did not happen. I will not argue, but I think that in Germany it was then even easier. Not because of the famine there, the Nazis came to power, that's what it is about.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 June 2020 17: 26
      +1
      The Treaty of Versailles influenced from 1918 to 1924. Then the rise began.
      The years from 1924 to 1929 were called the "Golden Twenties" in Germany. It was a period of rapid economic growth. In 1929, the Great Depression began in the United States. America stopped investing money in Germany, which caused an economic recession and an increase in unemployment.
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 29 June 2020 17: 45
        +1
        The problem is not investment. The problem is solvent demand.
        The German economy is too powerful to fit within Germany alone. Since the mid-19th century, it was in dire need of markets. The Nazis, of course, are animals. But overall the motive is simple. Either you conquer your neighbors, or close yourself within national borders and slide into subsistence farming, as it was in the USSR just in the 20s before the start of industrialization.
        And on equal terms, it was Nazism, and not ideology, as was customary to say, that it was mutually beneficial to cooperate with the USSR.
      2. Kurare
        Kurare 29 June 2020 17: 46
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        The years from 1924 to 1929 were called the "Golden Twenties" in Germany.

        "Golden Twenties", i.e. the period of the Weimer Republic is a period of rapid development of culture and art. Yes, the economy has begun to pick up and recover. And yes, the "great depression" killed this growth. In addition to this, there remained pressure from reparation payments, which significantly exacerbated the situation. The National Socialists played on this.
    3. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 19: 00
      -2
      Quote: Kurare
      The primary reason was still the so-called. The Versailles "Peace Treaty", which led to the ruin of the already defeated Germany in WWI. Hunger began in Germany,


      Yes, but it has nothing to do with hunger - the famous "25 points" were announced in January 1920.
  8. Plastmaster
    Plastmaster 29 June 2020 16: 55
    0
    Well, judging by this article from the article by Ulrich Hayden, everything is correct. You can explain by point. And everything is beautiful. And if Ulrich is not satisfied, then let him be published in the Air Force, well, or in the Times, whatever.
  9. Plastmaster
    Plastmaster 29 June 2020 16: 58
    -3
    Quote: Attack aircraft
    avoids sensitive topics regarding Germany

    He’s doing everything right. In the hope of a future union of Russia and Germany! If you tear Germany away from US bedbugs with Israel .. would get a good alliance! The Germans are already tired of humiliation, like the Russians! ..Yes, and in general we are constantly pitted with them, but we are fighting to the bitter end and very fierce .. To the delight of some .. It’s time to change all that .. Here Merkel’s old woman will retire, something can happen
    Good article plus her ..

    And the fact that we remained ..... Not to people? In World War I, their Entente bent out of business. In the 1nd USSR in the case. But resentment is more on us, not on the Jewish West.
  10. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 29 June 2020 17: 00
    +4
    Based on this, Hayden concludes that Putin deliberately avoids those that might seem unpleasant to German partners.

    But the Americans with Germany do not stand on ceremony ...
  11. APASUS
    APASUS 29 June 2020 17: 02
    +3
    Maybe Putin did not have a task to bring Europe to a shudder. Indeed, Hitler did not build his Reich from scratch, but with the tacit indulgence of the West. It was with the hands of the bankers of England and the USA that there was a breakthrough in the military industry and tacit consent for adventurous politics only when bankers released the reins from their own hands, it became clear who they had grown.
    Although history goes in a spiral and we see who they are trying to grow in Ukraine. Putin did not draw parallels with modern politics, said nothing, but in vain!
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 29 June 2020 20: 02
      0
      The Fuhrer carefully shoved east since 1938. But something went wrong. (c.)
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 30 June 2020 08: 37
      +2
      Quote: APASUS
      After all, Hitler did not build his Reich from scratch, but from the tacit indulgence of the West. It was by the hands of the bankers of England and the USA

      and with the full support of the population! And those who disagree are sprayed
  12. tatra
    tatra 29 June 2020 17: 05
    +2
    Yes, the enemies of the communists after their seizure of Russia and bad words about Hitler and the Nazis did not blather. They have Stalin to blame for the Great Patriotic War, and they threw all the 26 million Soviet people killed by the Nazis into "Stalin's victims", and they compete - who will throw more of these "Stalin's victims".
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 19: 12
      -8
      Quote: tatra
      enemies of the communists

      laughing
      again? This is your personal meme - Enemy of the Enemies of the Communists ??))))
      But it disturbs you that the liberals speak of joint responsibility for the death of Soviet citizens in the occupied territories? What's wrong? Does the state accept the responsibility for protecting its citizens under the terms of a social contract?
  13. Poetry
    Poetry 29 June 2020 17: 12
    +7
    It used to be a nightmare of the British Empire if Germany made friends with Russia.
  14. Junior Warrant Officer
    Junior Warrant Officer 29 June 2020 17: 15
    -5
    If Putin, in his article, dealt with topics unpleasant for Germany, then the question of completing the construction of the Nord Stream would never have been raised ...
    Let's call a spade a spade ...
    Who we do not need now is bad (Ukraine, Belarus).
    Where our pipelines go is our friend (Turkey, Germany, China)
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Junior Warrant Officer
        Junior Warrant Officer 29 June 2020 19: 34
        -1
        So this is what it turns out that the Russian and German brothers forever?
        Another mnogoghodovochka, a new vector in foreign policy?
        So it turns out that the boy Kolya from Urengoy was a touchstone, with Mannerheim’s board, the soil was probed, the next step is Vlasov’s rehabilitation?
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 20: 26
          -2
          Quote: Junior Warrant Officer
          So this is what it turns out that the Russian and German brothers forever?

          pffff! Come on! laughing

          Quote: Junior Warrant Officer
          So it turns out that the boy Kolya from Urengoy


          Everything, no longer "Kolya s Urengoy", but "Nikolai (patronymic)". He was the first to offer fraternization.

          Quote: Junior Warrant Officer
          the next step is the rehabilitation of Vlasov?


          I think this topic will be given to the development of the Russian Orthodox Church. HZ, there is a feeling that the scrap-makers themselves will not risk it, they will prefer a veil of priestly oil. Well, or opium, to whom as)))
  15. rocket757
    rocket757 29 June 2020 17: 28
    +2
    It is very harmful not to tell the whole truth. This is the old RAKE, which our "big politics" twists have already stepped on more than once.
    Then, those who are "protected" in this way, REVENGE and very cruelly, because for such a respect, love, NEVER WILL BE.
    RAKE, RAKE, RAKE!
  16. certero
    certero 29 June 2020 17: 56
    0
    Quote: Attack aircraft
    GDR was the most devoted and in the suppression of all sorts of riots, they took an active part and were not particularly cronimized with rioters ..

    In the suppression of which riots was the army of the GDR? That's right, in no way.
    But with regard to assessing its combat effectiveness, really Soviet generals rated the Gader army in the first place. In the second Polish
    1. not main
      not main 30 June 2020 00: 26
      +1
      Quote: certero
      Quote: Attack aircraft
      GDR was the most devoted and in the suppression of all sorts of riots, they took an active part and were not particularly cronimized with rioters ..

      In the suppression of which riots was the army of the GDR? That's right, in no way.
      But with regard to assessing its combat effectiveness, really Soviet generals rated the Gader army in the first place. In the second Polish

      Actually, Soviet generals first of all evaluated the Group of Forces in the territories! GSVG is the most powerful and shocking, with which the army of the GDR supported! SGV is a large group, but support must be expected only from the homeland! ... the same applies to the TGV and the UGV.
      1. certero
        certero 30 June 2020 01: 38
        +2
        I thought it was already clear that among the countries of the Warsaw Pact
  17. Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 29 June 2020 17: 59
    +2
    Putin indicated only the main reasons, and this is already important in spite of forgetful "partners." From the main ones follow the minor ones, and so on until every small factor you can come up with, but they are derivatives of the main ones. The time will come, sure everything will be said that will finally destroy all nonsense. including internal. Finally, the time of truth comes: What is the strength, brother? ... This is the most important weapon, whatever the truth.
  18. Plastmaster
    Plastmaster 29 June 2020 18: 01
    0
    Quote: carstorm 11
    not masochists. they’re just being raised like that. remember that war and understand what they did. I would not say a word to repent. just accept what their country has done. and not deny this fact. There is certainly already modern youth who are beginning to forget, or someone is teaching them from the outside. I do not know. but for now, most of them are holding back and trying to keep within.

    Yes, nevermind. Young zinger and talk. What the hell will we bow, to bow back. And they do not speak in the direction of England and the United States.
  19. Plastmaster
    Plastmaster 29 June 2020 18: 08
    -1
    Quote: Pereira
    Moreover, they call themselves the only ones. who unleashed her.

    We should tell them about the role of the Anglo-Saxons.

    Good laugh. We would be informed.
  20. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 29 June 2020 18: 29
    +1
    Putin considers the Versailles Peace one of the main reasons for the outbreak of World War II, as a result of which Germany found itself in a humiliated position, which led to an increase in revenge.
    Well that's right, Hitler did not start the war with the USSR, but at first he conquered and subjugated the whole of Europe. So let them think about themselves why WWII began in 1939, and what are its causes, and WWII in 1941. And let them not forget why the Germans pulled out the Compiegne trailer from the museum.
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 22: 44
      -4
      Yes, everything has already been thought out and all conclusions have been made, the file 'World War II' has been archived. The Europeans pull it out with annoyance only because of the stupid activity of annoying members of the European quasi-brotherhood - either the Greeks, the Poles, or someone smaller - democracy and corporatism, God forbid showing signs of authoritarianism, ahah ... The world is not Yalta for a long time, There is no USSR, the technological order has changed, the poles of power have shifted (not in our, unfortunately, side), we are watching the war of economies from the gallery, but for any challenge - all with one argument, 'but natsYzm won 75 (80-85-90 and etc.) years ago ??? ''
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 30 June 2020 07: 59
        0
        Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
        Yes, everything has already been thought out and all the conclusions have been made, the file 'World War II' has been archived.

        Don’t hand it over to the archive, but this trailer cannot be corroded from history.
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 30 June 2020 09: 31
          -2
          Quote: tihonmarine
          but this trailer is n


          this trailer was given to you. That's it, they burned him in Berlin. Nobody corrodes anything. We stepped over and went on.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 30 June 2020 10: 40
            0
            Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
            this trailer was given to you. That's it, they burned him in Berlin.

            A lot of things were burnt, and the wagons and synagogues were burned, but everything remained in the memory, photographs, paintings. And I see you really do not like the trailer, and all our memories and history of the Second World War, but no matter how puffed up, the whole West raised its "hands up the hill", and the USSR survived and made Germany yell "Hitler kaput".
            1. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 30 June 2020 11: 01
              0
              Quote: tihonmarine
              And you I really do not like the trailer

              I treat him as a historical episode and a symbol of revenge - without emotion. And you have some strange excited attitude towards this theater gesture of the Führer with a Compiegne carriage.
              Quote: tihonmarine
              and all our memories

              Your memories About war? Is this a joke? How old are you?
              Quote: tihonmarine
              and the history of the Second World War,

              I relate to the history of the Great Patriotic War, as well as World War II as a whole, with the greatest respect and interest, do not impose my fantasies. The fact that I am a skeptic and completely devoid of your inherent pathos - well, what can you do.
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 30 June 2020 11: 25
                0
                Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
                The fact that I am a skeptic and completely devoid of your inherent pathos - well, what can you do.

                And I thought you were from Germany.
                1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                  Dr. Frankenstucker 30 June 2020 11: 55
                  -2
                  It does not matter. I live in Germany, my attitude to the war was exactly the same - a calm interest, an attempt to take a balanced approach, caution in value judgments and no exaltation.
  21. Klingon
    Klingon 29 June 2020 18: 57
    +3
    Quote: Attack aircraft
    Quote: tralflot1832
    The Germans do not deny what they did to us during the Second World War.

    They don’t try to turn history around, like some Nazi litter in Europe .. They knew how to fight (fought to the last), but in vain they climbed Russia pushing Anglo-Saxons ..

    I had to talk with a former Wehrmacht soldier somehow, one grandfather told me that it’s in vain that we attacked the USSR, it would be better not to break the pact but to cut together the arrogant Saxons and striped, but Hitler was obsessed. when he was captured by this grandfather (Kazakhs or Tuvans took him, he did not know, he called them Mongols) he was glad that for him somehow it was all over. worked in the camp for 10 years, then he was sent home. became a big fan of Russian folk music)
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 29 June 2020 22: 26
      -7
      Quote: Klingon
      I had to somehow communicate with a former Wehrmacht soldier, one grandfather told me

      Will lie, my dear. This is already becoming a separate genre - to pass off one's own fantasies for greater 'reliability' as the testimony of 'grandfathers' - ours and not ours, it doesn't matter.
      Not a single Wehrmacht veteran will go down to freeze a similar h.nyu -

      Quote: Klingon
      but to cut together arrogant Saxons and striped,
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 30 June 2020 10: 46
        +1
        Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer
        Will lie, my dear. This is already becoming a separate genre - to pass off one's own fantasies for greater 'reliability' as the testimony of 'grandfathers' - ours and not ours, it doesn't matter.

        Well, I’m older than you, I had to meet in the German Democratic Republic and at the Rostok fish factory, and in Wismar and Stralsund with former Nazi soldiers. Many said that the attack on the USSR was Hitler’s mistake with his comrades, but almost all remained loyal to Hitler, and spoke positively of him, unlike their children.
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 30 June 2020 12: 27
          -1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          that the attack on the USSR was Hitler's mistake

          interesting, but what, from the Germans you can hear a different opinion about the war, which ended in defeat and shame for them?
  22. lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 30 June 2020 00: 04
    -2
    I am old! And I never saw history and politics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ps if you love something from them, it turns out a prostitute ((((
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 30 June 2020 10: 59
      +1
      Quote: lvov_aleksey

      I am old! And I never saw history and politics!

      You said correctly, this does not mean yours.
  23. Klingon
    Klingon 30 June 2020 02: 08
    +4
    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
    Quote: Klingon
    I had to somehow communicate with a former Wehrmacht soldier, one grandfather told me

    Will lie, my dear. This is already becoming a separate genre - to pass off one's own fantasies for greater 'reliability' as the testimony of 'grandfathers' - ours and not ours, it doesn't matter.
    Not a single Wehrmacht veteran will go down to freeze a similar h.nyu -

    Quote: Klingon
    but to cut together arrogant Saxons and striped,

    Actually, I live in Germany. I work in a hospital. this person was a patient. so be silent if you can’t think of anything smarter how to add a lie to me. Why do I need it? I wouldn’t write such a thing, I’m not interested in driving the blizzard. And I’m not looking for excuses for them. both of my grandfathers fought in the red army, one in Crimea during the defense of Sevastopol, the second in the Caucasus
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 30 June 2020 09: 03
      -5
      Quote: Klingon
      Actually, I live in Germany.

      So what? From this bike about a warlike grandfather does not become believable, do you think?
      But in general - yes, if Molotov had signed in Berlin in November 1940, then everything would have gone differently.
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 30 June 2020 11: 45
        +2
        I’ll tell you more, there were even several of them, one of which he gave me his memoirs to read. adjutant messenger, on a motorcycle BMW R-75 Geschann. delivered headquarters papers. He fought in the 6th Army, an officer from the SS nearly banged him because he had forgotten his rifle at the fence. (the rifle could fall into the hands of the partisans) he did not understand why people from the SS were in his unit because they did not take part directly in the battle. then he saw - if they went into a village or a city, people from the SS began to work with the population. then he was thrown to Libya where the British shot him right through after he surrendered to them
        another was a pilot on the Me-110. near Moscow they fried anti-aircraft gunners did not have time to bomb :)
        I was still able to land on one engine, after which I immediately gave up.
        was still a former sailor from a submarine such as VIC. torpedoed American convoys in the Atlantic. said the water gave out a glass for a day. there was a distiller, but it was not turned on because it was very noisy, the destroyer could spot the boat by the noise from a working distiller.
        I was interested to listen to what they experienced, for what they went to fight. Or say that I made it all up? Why do I need it? What will I have from this?
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 30 June 2020 12: 03
          -2
          Or say that I made it all up?

          Actually, I have no doubt that most of those present at VO read memoirs. What do you want to surprise with? But none of them have and cannot be quite funny thoughts.
          not violate the pact but to carve together arrogant Saxons and striped,

          expressed by you on behalf of "grandfather".
  24. Roman123567
    Roman123567 30 June 2020 11: 28
    +1
    However, he does not consider the head of the Soviet state infallible and severely criticizes him for domestic politics.

    Pot calls the kettle black..
  25. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 30 June 2020 12: 25
    0
    All internal problems are only the consequences of the Treaty of Versailles and the search for the enemy both domestically and abroad. People are weak and, with appropriate treatment, are able to change their opinions to the opposite. Hitler caught the chip, was a good speaker and understood the masses. But with all its eloquence, without external support, Germany could not rise much, having scanty resources and a devastated country.
  26. demo
    demo 30 June 2020 13: 37
    +1
    It is clear that Putin, despite the opinion of the majority of Russians, has a different opinion on this issue.

    The president of the country, elected by popular vote, cannot have an opinion different from the majority, as he personifies this majority.
    If the president’s opinion is very or radically different from that of the majority, then he is not a minority president.
    Or there is an option that at the stage of election promises one thing was declared, but in fact another.
    Both that, and another in our society are not acceptable.

    On the one hand, he recognizes some of the undoubted merits of the USSR and the Soviet state. On the other hand, he condemns some aspects of Soviet history and Soviet leaders.

    There is also a logical dead end.
    The king is good, boyars are villains?
    It happens?
    No.
    If you recognize the merits of the state, the merits of the people, then you should automatically place at the forefront the ideological foundation that dominated society.
    And the conductors of such an ideology were precisely the Soviet leaders.
    The people and the party are one - this is not an unfounded statement.
    The party at the bottom, and the party at the top are different party members.
    But it was the party that determined the strategic goals and ensured their implementation.
    Unlike our president.
    Which defines goals and objectives, and the government constantly ignores them.
    This is the main difference between Putin and the Soviet leaders.

    My father, a fairly large leader, for a number of objective reasons did not fulfill the plan once.
    And not just half.
    Implementation of the plan was 87%.
    As a result: a strict reprimand with entry in the card, deprivation of bonuses, analysis at the Bureau of Personal Affairs.
    Then a micro heart attack.
    Then the plan was overfulfilled.

    That's how the Soviet leaders asked their subordinates.
    Not a couple of current contingencies.

    And against Putin only you - left and right radicals, and the "fifth column" - agents of the West and the West itself. You are all working together! Fortunately, you are in the minority.

    Well, hello.
    Only here, among Russians, they start for health, but end for peace, in one toast.
    If it seems to me: that a person does not correspond to either the historical moment or the position held, has failed the personnel policy, spread total corruption, makes promises on the most important problems (changing the retirement age and changing the Constitution) and violates them himself, then why are the announced shortcomings one person, become decisive when hanging the label "left and right radicals, but the" fifth column "- agents of the West and the West itself"?
    Where is the logic?
    Did you understand what you answered?

    Okay.
    When there are not enough arguments based on facts and harmonious logic, clichés are usually used.
    1. Vladimir Mashkov
      Vladimir Mashkov 1 July 2020 10: 46
      -1
      I would say that you have a strange approach - to choose from the text only what you like and draw false conclusions, and not evaluate the text in a complex - if you didn’t know exactly what is your (your and your same-thinking) common practice - double standarts.

      ALL leaders are people. And they have their own opinion, on SOME issues different from the majority. Try to honestly answer the question: WHY does the majority of Russians, despite your hysterics "everything is gone!", Still choose Putin?

      As for you and your fellow thinkers, then you, in this case, act as Vlasovites: they also claimed that they, JOINTLY with the then representative of the West, FOR Russia, but AGAINST its then leader. All your talk about special individual actions is in favor of the poor. Try to convincingly refute this by answering this question.

      And I would very much like to hear your opinion WHY your leader, who is eight years older than Putin, accuses him of old age and requires leaving, but for some reason he’s not going to leave anywhere!

      Try to convincingly answer with convincing arguments, based on reliable facts and harmonious logic WITHOUT the use of clichés and demagogy!

      PS Decent honest people answer by pressing the "Reply" button, and not hiding their "arguments" somewhere.
      1. demo
        demo 1 July 2020 12: 06
        0
        I'll start from the end.
        I have not yet been accused of dishonesty.
        I answered you, but my answer was at the end of the answers of those who managed to answer earlier.
        Remove claims. OK!?

        Let's go in order.
        "I would say that you have a strange approach - to choose from the text only what you like and draw false conclusions, and not evaluate the text as a whole, - if I did not know for sure that this is your (you and your fellow thinkers) common practice - double standarts"
        I choose not only what I like, but also what I don't like.
        Usually, I emphasize, many of those who write here have common reasoning, which try to concretize with one or two phrases.
        And this is the main point.
        You focus on this.
        And around this phrase, as if from a stove, you build an answer.
        Do you read books?
        After reading the book, if you ask what it is about, then you retell the whole book by heart?
        Or try to convey the key points of the book or in your own words, or quote verbatim.
        But at the end of your monologue, you will try to express your opinion (negative / positive / neutral), if it has developed.
        If this happens in a different order for you, then you are a rare individual.
        "ALL leaders are people. And they have their own opinion, on SOME issues different from the majority. Try to honestly answer the question: WHY does the majority of Russians, despite your hysterics" everything is gone! ", Still choose Putin?"
        It somehow never occurred to me to humanize leaders or vice versa.
        Of course, leaders are people.
        The same as you and me.
        With its own set of strong and weak human qualities.
        Only the presence of certain qualities with you or me does not affect the lives of millions of fellow citizens, their well-being, longevity, and much more.
        If a leader has a different opinion from the majority of citizens on a fundamental issue, it seems to me that he should reconsider his point of view.
        One cannot keep up, and the whole company does not keep up.
        If he believes that everyone is mistaken, then he should not impose his will on the majority, but rather calmly lay down his powers and state:
        "Since most respected fellow citizens do not support the increase in the retirement age, and I consider this measure necessary, albeit forced, I ask you to dismiss me of my own free will."
        PARAGRAPH!
        (I wanted to write differently, but admins prohibit the use of non-normative vocabulary).
        In a democratic society, there can be no disregard for the opinion of the electing majority.
        Then, according to the logic of things, the electing majority is an occasionally needed herd that can be enticed by empty promises before the election.
        By the logic of things of the same Leader!
        To my regret, I do not belong to any party, faction or group of like-minded people.
        I am too selfish and do not succumb to any group requirements. With discipline, I do not really.
        If I think so, but not otherwise, I reasonably prove my innocence.
        Not in the ranks of like-minded people, but individually.
        By age I no longer really want to be in the ranks of like-minded people.
        I’m afraid that we will not meet the weight indicators with the current young shoots.
        Behind my shoulders is life in the Union until a fairly mature age.
        Behind my shoulders is work in numerous teams in completely different climatic and geographical regions.
        I have a prevailing worldview formed at a time when Marxist-Leninist philosophy was the most important subject of a university.
        Unfortunately, I am forced to interrupt due to limitations on the number of words.
        1. demo
          demo 1 July 2020 12: 15
          0
          Continue.
          "And I would very much like to hear your opinion WHY your leader, who is eight years older than Putin, accuses him of old age and requires leaving, but for some reason, he is not going to go anywhere!"
          I do not understand at all which "your leader", especially of this age, are you talking about?
          Maybe you confused me with someone?
          I did not have and do not have a leader.
          I am my own leader.
          So I can’t even answer what I don’t even suspect.

          I will end this way.
          In order to understand the need for a change in the leadership of the state, it is necessary to prepare and publish a sufficiently lengthy article.
          Which administrators will not publish.
          Reason - only articles of the author's team (VO) are published.
          I do not enter the authors' team of VO and did not plan to enter there.
          Point.
          So your requirements will be left unsatisfied.
          1. Vladimir Mashkov
            Vladimir Mashkov 1 July 2020 13: 55
            -1
            As I expected, you have NOT answered any question. Abundant demagoguery from start to finish! They did not say anything about the "new Vlasovites", they pretended not to understand about Zyuganov ...

            Only the "choosing majority", this is the "herd" (YOUR definitions) - but, in fact - the REASONABLE MOST of the people of Russia - still does not choose you, the "smart", "good" and "honest" "defenders of Russians and Russia" , but the "bad" Putin, "out of step with YOUR company"! Doesn't it seem strange?

            I see that further communication is useless due to your unwillingness to communicate honestly. Continue your useless "fruitful" activity!

            PS I am not at all surprised that your fellow thinkers use such "convincing" "arguments, facts and coherent logic" as silent dislikes against me. It's been a week now. And, usually, WITHOUT any arguments!
            1. demo
              demo 1 July 2020 15: 35
              0
              Do you have paranoia?
              What are the "one-thinkers"?

              PS I am not at all surprised that your fellow thinkers use such "convincing" "arguments, facts and coherent logic" as silent dislikes against me. It's been a week now. And, usually, WITHOUT any arguments!

              Ugh you, well you, sticks are bent!
              This is what I am guilty of?
              The fact that someone sculpts your cons?
              Aren't you a hangover?
              I read your comments and respond.
              I always prefer to communicate with a person than silently, with a fig in my pocket, put a minus.
              From my minus you will not become my soul mate?
              If I did this, I would not discuss it with you.

              Everything, everything, everything.
              Take it easy.
              Drink some water.
              I won’t provoke you to debate anymore.
              All the best, colleague. yes
  27. lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 1 July 2020 00: 20
    0
    Quote: tihonmarine
    Quote: lvov_aleksey

    I am old! And I never saw history and politics!

    You said correctly, this does not mean yours.

    I will add that history and politics have the properties to change - to sell (there are many examples).
    Only descendants through the ages can be we judge !!!