Military Review

Zamvolta’s second life: will hypersonic missiles save the most problematic US Navy ship

84

Three drops in the sea



At one time, the destroyer Zumwalt could become one of the most revolutionary ships in stories. All thanks to its stealth and a set of advanced weapons systems. However, instead of the revolution, the Americans received a large pile of problems and very dubious prospects for the real manifestation of the capabilities of the destroyer. Ultimately, instead of 32 ships originally planned for construction, they were limited to three: USS Zumwalt (DDG-1000), USS Michael Monsoor (DDG-1001) and USS Lyndon B. Johnson (DDG-1002). It is difficult to name such a step as saving: experts estimated the cost of building three ships at more than twelve billion dollars with a total program price of over 22 billion.

It is noteworthy that the United States did not receive the ship they wanted to receive. There is almost no doubt that finding Zumwalt is much more difficult than, for example, an Arly Burke type destroyer, but the armament of the current destroyer is a pale shadow of what was planned earlier. Recall that at one time the Navy abandoned the idea of ​​equipping the ship with a revolutionary railgun - an electromagnetic mass accelerator that accelerates a conductive projectile along two metal guides using the Lorentz force. It turned out to be technically difficult, expensive and energy intensive. Then the Americans abandoned yet another idea - to use a LRLAP guided long-range projectile for a 155 mm gun. As it turned out, the price of one shell is comparable to the cost of a cruise missile and amounts to about 800 thousand US dollars. “We were going to buy thousands of these shells, but the number of ships simply killed an affordable shell,” Gazeta.Ru quoted the representative of the US Navy as saying.


In addition, instead of the originally envisioned powerful 57-millimeter artillery systems, a modest 30-millimeter Mark 46 MOD 2 Gun Weapon System (GWS) based on Bushmaster II was mounted on the ship. Not so long ago, Zumwalt first performed firing from these artillery mounts: not a big achievement for a program with such a cost.

Zumwalt as a Supplement


It is not surprising that the role of the destroyer has been repeatedly reviewed and adjusted. In 2018, they wanted to make him a “killer” of the ships of a potential enemy (it is not entirely clear why this is necessary if the US Navy has many aircraft carriers). Now, it seems, the role of Zumwalt has again decided to reconsider. In the House of Representatives, they want to see the destroyer as the carrier of hypersonic weapons. According to US Naval Institute News, the defense budget of the House of Representatives for 2021 will contain a provision requiring the U.S. Navy to begin integration of the Prompt Global Strike (PGS) complex into the armament of destroyers by 2021.

Earlier, USNI News reported that the carrier of the Hypersonic Common Hypersonic Glide Body (C-HGB) unit, created as part of the Conventional Prompt Strike, chose a Virginia-type multipurpose nuclear submarine. According to the plan, the US Navy wants to get a two-stage missile with a diameter of 87 centimeters. It acts as the carrier for the C-HGB hypersonic glider, developed by Dynetics Technical Solutions. The project is based on the experimental hypersonic warhead Advanced Hypersonic Weapon (AHW), which, according to unofficial data, has a range of up to 6000 kilometers. It is known that during tests conducted in 2011 and 2012, the warhead reached a speed of 8 Machs.


Not all boats want to arm the new hypersonic complex, but specifically the new Virginia Block V, equipped with additional Virginia Payload Module payload compartments - modules with 28 vertical launchers.

It is not entirely clear how exactly to enter into these Napoleonic plans a warship that is problematic and not yet ready for full operation. It is not clear how to add new missiles to Zumwalt. Popular Mechanics, in Congress Wants To Load Up Zumwalt-Class Destroyers With Hypersonic Weapons, believes the CPS is too complex to fit in Zumwalt vertical installations.

Recall that the main armament of the ship is twenty universal Mk-57 launchers with a total capacity of 80 missiles. Theoretically, the fleet could go for the dismantling of two AGS front guns, which became de facto unnecessary due to the refusal to purchase shells, and adding in their place blocks with missiles equipped with hypersonic missiles. However, this step may entail a decrease in stealth indicators: the Zumwalt profile is not an accident, but the result of the careful and painstaking work of many scientists. Changing it can lead to negative consequences for the stealth of the ship.


Other questions will come up. If the new hypersonic missile of the Navy does not have any anti-ship capabilities (which is very likely), the project will force once again to change the concept of Zumwalt. That is, the ship will again become a tool for hitting targets on the coast instead of the previously proposed anti-ship role. Already, American experts believe that such a "ping pong" will only further delay the full start of operation fleet three destroyers. Despite the fact that the first of them should be ready for service now.

In theory, Zumwalt, having stealth (provided that these characteristics are preserved), will be able to approach the enemy at a minimum distance and launch hypersonic missiles. However, modernized submarines like Virginia can do the same. Fortunately for the United States, they belong to the last - fourth generation of nuclear submarines. Which, among other things, boasts a minimum noise level and, as a result, the difficulty of detection.

With all this, one should not forget that there are only three Zumwalt type destroyers, and the modifications needed to add missiles developed as part of the Conventional Prompt Strike can be very expensive.

Residual phenomenon


The plans voiced now are not so much a desire to unleash the potential of Zumwalt, but to make maximum use of the capabilities of new hypersonic missiles. The irony is that there is no such weapon in the arsenal of Americans yet: if everything goes as they plan, then the new systems will replenish the arsenal of the Navy around the mid-2020s. By that time, the very concept of using hypersonic weapons may change.


Much, of course, depends on how successful (or unsuccessful) the trials will be. In general, the situation with Zumwalt is similar to that which we can see in the Russian fleet. Recall that many large surface ships and nuclear submarines, including the heavy nuclear missile cruisers Peter the Great and Admiral Nakhimov, wanted to equip the new Zircon hypersonic missile. “If everything goes as it is now, it will have (Admiral Nakhimov’s. - Auth.), Probably the most powerful weapon we have,” said Alexey Rakhmanov, head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation in 2019. Just so far, none of the mere mortals have seen any Zircons, and even heavy cruisers are not eternal.
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  1. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 30 June 2020 05: 30 New
    0
    "mortals" do not need to see anything superfluous. Under the USSR, nothing older than T55 or 23 was shown in films.
    Once again, you do not need to open the card
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 30 June 2020 10: 14 New
      +5
      In the Soviet Union, the MiG-23 was quite a modern airplane, the MiG-29 and Su-27 were just in operation, and the T-80, like, was shown at the parade in the 1980th. And indeed, experimental parades were often demonstrated at parades in the 60s.
    2. Sahalinets
      Sahalinets 30 June 2020 11: 49 New
      +9
      Actually, it was idiocy. I remember very well that in Lenin the reference books Jane and foreign military magazines were in special custody, issued only on special request. Well, what's the point?
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 30 June 2020 12: 24 New
        +3
        Quote: Sahalinets
        Actually, it was idiocy. I remember very well that in Lenin the reference books Jane and foreign military magazines were in special custody, issued only on special request. Well, what's the point?

        Just in case. Suddenly, before being sent, were they processed or irradiated with something to infect ordinary Soviet people with alien values? You take such a magazine in your hands - and you only dream about a denim jacket, Coca-Cola and the Rolling Stones record. Therefore, only those who were trained in moral and political training and were found to be sustainable were admitted.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 30 June 2020 15: 13 New
          +3
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          You take such a magazine in your hands - and you only dream about a denim jacket, Coca-Cola and the Rolling Stones record.

          Today he plays jazz, and tomorrow he will sell his homeland.
          © smile
      2. Proctologist
        Proctologist 30 June 2020 19: 21 New
        +3
        I remember there was some kind of almanac "Technique of a Potential Enemy" and I redrawn something from it into the demobilization album. Oh, and I got it! Everything had to be destroyed. And not at all because of secrecy, but because he "admired" a potential enemy. For the only reason - there were no materials about domestic equipment, there was nothing to draw from)))
        1. Aleksandre
          Aleksandre 30 June 2020 23: 30 New
          0
          Quote: Proctologist
          I remember there was some kind of almanac "Technique of a Potential Enemy"

          Stepfather in the 70s-80s subscribed to "Foreign Military Review", is that not it?
          1. Nosgoth
            Nosgoth 2 July 2020 12: 29 New
            0
            It is there now.
  2. Avior
    Avior 30 June 2020 06: 26 New
    -2
    Zamvolta never made ammunition
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 30 June 2020 06: 38 New
    0
    All serious opponents are armed with hyper-arguments !!! the war will not start ... no one will fight back !!!
    "Iron" is just another drop ... ... in the sea of ​​what has already been accumulated, prepared, for ...
  4. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 30 June 2020 06: 45 New
    +4
    Great program. 22 yards for three hardly floating useless and practically unarmed pelvis, X yards for shells at the price of the Kyrgyz Republic, now Y yards for launch complexes for missiles not yet created ... What next? The annual defense budget to create an ergonomic handle for the M-16? laughing
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 30 June 2020 07: 32 New
      16
      You do not understand this other!
      It’s only officials who steal from us, and there everything is very free, modern, democratic and absolutely legally lobbying. This is completely different, you need to understand! wink
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 30 June 2020 08: 18 New
        +4
        Quote: Sergey_G_M
        everything is very free, modern, democratic and absolutely legally lobbying there. This is completely different, you need to understand!


        Of course! laughing
      2. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 30 June 2020 15: 34 New
        +6
        Quote: Sergey_G_M
        You do not understand this other!

        of course this is another matter, the only question is what's better?
        1) when they build a regular ship and millions flow on it
        2) when building a fundamentally new ship, billions flow away with new elements in it and on them (elements)
        Well, for example, according to open information, we developed, produced and supplied a very interesting scalable power network for the zombovolt, but in addition to PR pictures there is no real information on it, or for the zombovolt we created new motors based on electricity and which, in theory, should reduce vibration and, as a result, increase acoustic invisibility, but what in reality? but no one knows, or doesn’t tell a third-party ... and so on in everything ....
        So it’s still not clear which is better ... but judging by the available information, some of the elements for radar, networks and control were put into production for classic ships ...
        1. Sergey_G_M
          Sergey_G_M 30 June 2020 18: 05 New
          +3
          new electric motors based on electric power were created for the zumvolt, which in theory should reduce vibrations and, as a result, increase acoustic invisibility

          It sounds beautiful especially about "new electric motors" , and in fact the power plant is similar to submarine installations.
          The power grid is also terribly scalable: we want to put railguns, we want not. (very little faith in such a power grid)
          and so on in everything ....
          Zumvolt is basically PR and big words ...
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 30 June 2020 23: 39 New
            +3
            Quote: Sergey_G_M
            Zumvolt is basically PR and big words ...

            not. this is a business project! yes Certainly not as successful as the American missile defense system, but they also cut down pretty good money ... now a new business project is hypersound. any whim for your (American taxpayer) money wink
    2. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 30 June 2020 21: 57 New
      +1
      Generally useful and armed. No need to engage in cap-making. Dear ones, yes (but the Yankees are all expensive). Technically sophisticated - yes (but new ships are all technically sophisticated and, as a rule, all have problems). Highly specialized for strikes along the coast - yes (but this is not an EM URO, this is an EM specially created for this purpose). 80 cruise missiles and two gun mounts of land caliber - quite a good weapon. As a result, they abandoned the series - it happens. Our throwing in shipbuilding programs is no less epic.
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 30 June 2020 23: 58 New
        0
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        Our throwing in shipbuilding programs is no less epic.

        Yes, but here it is important to understand with us and they have a different approach to financing. It’s easier for them to calculate the total amount, but as a result, the floating quality \ quantity of the final actually measured result, but on the contrary, prices and financial flows are floating, but the parameters of the final product are fixed. Which approach is better? it’s not clear ... because they have frauds in analytics with projects of the Wunderdefel promoted like no knowing what, and we have frauds in financial flows and contractors.
        Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
        Generally useful and armed. No need to engage in cap-making.

        In general, there are solid questions here and without a hat. From technical connections, then with sub-missile shells, then with reilguns, then with the concept of a similar ship where they crossed a snake with a hedgehog and now offer to use it as a scarf. Before "who came up with the idea of ​​naming a series of small and super-expensive ships in honor of a man who stands up for a cheap but large fleet" good
        For example, I’m very interested in the real running capabilities of this form of contours (I mean their storm h-ki), for being interested in this topic I came to other contours in general, and the zombvolt contours should not work in my analysis, in principle, but after all these contours somehow passed and modeling and full-scale reduced tests (since they were allowed before production) and then I didn’t understand the roofing felts in the subject of skiing felts do not go.
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 June 2020 22: 27 New
      0
      "useless and practically unarmed pelvis," ///
      ----
      We can call the carrier 80 cruise missiles unarmed ... smile
      They walk quickly and gracefully, cutting storm waves, and not falling through between them.
      1. Saxahorse
        Saxahorse 30 June 2020 23: 57 New
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        They walk quickly and gracefully, cutting storm waves, and not falling through between them.

        Yes .. The infection is very beautiful! And how water cuts! There is almost no burun, just pushing the wave. I don’t know what they’ll do with guns there, but the silhouette is beautiful and the case is successful.
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 30 June 2020 07: 25 New
    +2
    They say that William II considered himself a ship engineer and prepared several projects for warships and submitted the projects to the leading shipbuilder in Germany, he reviewed and said: Your Majesty, these are outstanding ships, they have excellent armament, speed, they cannot be opposed by enemy ships, but as soon as they go to sea, they will swim like an iron .. In this case, something like that ...
  6. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 30 June 2020 07: 37 New
    14
    Zamvolt is f-22 from the fleet. In fact, a high-tech concept that went into a series from an oversupply of dough. From here, he is a pioneer. He will be the first, but he will be quickly overtaken by projects based on his experience.
    1. +5
      +5 30 June 2020 10: 15 New
      -1
      The F-22 turned out to be better than the F-15, they stopped making them both because of the price and due to the fact that they believed that there would be no equal enemy for it, an airplane that was completely normal in design ... and Zamwalt was originally a dream of reason according to the concept , and even jambs like the F-35 ... no "this, another."
      And no one will do anything like this, much less sophisticated, in the next ... twenty years.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 30 June 2020 23: 01 New
        +1
        A little wait. There will be a new project of an average missile carrier, taking into account experience.
    2. Tom Johnson
      Tom Johnson 30 June 2020 10: 30 New
      +2
      TICO's Replacement will share the same hull as the Zumwalt == lol at you "vich"
  7. Doccor18
    Doccor18 30 June 2020 07: 49 New
    +7
    "Zumwalt" would have been completed anyway, if the Union had not collapsed. Would have resisted, thrown all minds and money and would have completed it. And now there is simply no particular need for it. Against who? For the rest, and Berkov enough for the eyes.
    1. arkadiyssk
      arkadiyssk 30 June 2020 10: 35 New
      +4
      Well, the Americans did just that. They stopped the Zumwalt program, and cut the entire stuffing on the mortgaged ships, but in return for 2 years they made the Restart construction program for the destroyers Arly Burke and since 2013 they have already riveted 8 destroyers from a series of 26 new ships.
    2. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 30 June 2020 12: 46 New
      +2
      "Zumwalt" would have been completed anyway, if the Union had not collapsed. Would have resisted, thrown all the minds and money and would have completed it. And now there is simply no particular need for it. Against who?

      And under the USSR there was no need for it laughing
      Who to shoot from the railgun?
      300-400 km artillery on whom to shoot? Even if the shell is five times cheaper than a rocket, the rocket will still have ten times more warheads. And the same shells only at a fixed target shoot.
      No air defense, that is, it will shoot out of stealth in the area of ​​operations of the Navy? Or will it be part of a ship warrant? Then what the hell is stealth?

      There remains a floating carrier rockets of futuristic design, well, and who needs it so?
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 30 June 2020 23: 47 New
        +1
        Quote: Sergey_G_M
        There remains a floating carrier rockets of futuristic design, well, and who needs it so?

        Well, there’s another option ... here the Americans need to bring a lot of soy to China, they can remake it for this. maybe even a quarter wink
  8. Hermit21
    Hermit21 30 June 2020 08: 15 New
    -4
    Apparently, the goal of the last passage is to throw on the fan
  9. Free wind
    Free wind 30 June 2020 09: 36 New
    -6
    Last year’s article. According to the hyperpuper, Putin has not yet told the weapon. Guided missiles are, both with us and with them. Who has anyone stole the idea?
  10. The comment was deleted.
    1. +5
      +5 30 June 2020 10: 16 New
      0
      There is such a thing: cut ..... but the navy stepped on their throats and limited themselves to 3 pieces
  11. EvilLion
    EvilLion 30 June 2020 10: 15 New
    +2
    Why do we need Zamvolt if there are such missiles? They can be started with something easier.
    1. arkadiyssk
      arkadiyssk 30 June 2020 10: 39 New
      +4
      Because Zumwalt does not know how to defend air defense, he cut off half of the radar in the form of a decimeter surveyor, only cm radar remains. Here are Zumwalt and they are trying to come up with an application, shoot down anti-ship missiles with the help of this super radar or shoot at external target designation.
  12. Warrior MorePhoto
    Warrior MorePhoto 30 June 2020 11: 15 New
    -2
    Quote: Sergey_G_M
    You do not understand this other!
    It’s only officials who steal from us, and there everything is very free, modern, democratic and absolutely legally lobbying. This is completely different, you need to understand! wink


    Yes, there’s only one difference, they have everything (lockup, tiltrotor, minidrons 35 grams, etc.), we don’t have anything)
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 30 June 2020 12: 11 New
      0
      Everything is lost! They have everything, but we don’t!
      The Americans have a printing press and a propaganda machine that works best for them.
      The Americans have forgotten how to build nuclear power plants, the French have the same garbage. Enrich fuel for nuclear power plants can also only according to ancient technology.
      But they don’t even know about it and don’t cry. For that we have trouble trouble, we’ll be allowed (empty box) and tiltrotor (a golden airplane-helicopter for both production and operation) we cannot cry. Buy yourself a mini-drone on an ali-express bag and take it easy.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 30 June 2020 12: 27 New
      -2
      They say the USSR has left the economy more than that of Germany. If now you have nothing, then all the better for Russia. The god of horns did not give the vigorous cow.
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 30 June 2020 23: 55 New
        +2
        Quote: EvilLion
        They say the USSR has left the economy more than that of Germany.

        us? USSR left? nobody left us anything .. all by ourselves. the USSR left the USSR’s limitrophas in Poland, the Baltic states, and all sorts of Ukraine, but somehow they all pumped up and now they are sitting on European loans. wink
  13. Courier
    Courier 30 June 2020 11: 30 New
    +3
    The first planes of the Wright brothers were also ridiculous and unpretentious.

    There are no analogues to Zamvolt, no one has built such destroyers. They always laugh at the Americans, and after they cry bitterly.
    Oh, they lagged behind in microelectronics, oh, they lagged behind in drones, oh there are neither thermal imagers, nor javelins, there are no returnable stages, oh there is no software, then there will be no electric vehicles, there are no unmanned ships. Life does not teach anything.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 30 June 2020 12: 37 New
      +2
      That's right. If even this ship is not successful, then the experience and technologies gained will make it possible to qualitatively strengthen the current ships and develop new ones fundamentally better.
      1. Sergey_G_M
        Sergey_G_M 30 June 2020 12: 59 New
        +3
        Expensive experience is obtained.
        The railgun and long-range cannon could work on the ground without building ships.
        To assess the seaworthiness and stealth to build ships the same special meaning was not.
        1. Grazdanin
          Grazdanin 30 June 2020 13: 13 New
          0
          Price is a problem of the poor. Thousands of American families have earned on this project, universities have received funding, scientists and engineers from all over the world are moving because of such projects, hundreds of enterprises have received contracts. This is the development of the entire industry, not specific ships.
          Again, estimates that the project is a failure, only ours. Maybe the leadership of the Navy is written with happiness, so a successful project. Project evaluation depends on many factors.
          It’s like with the Turks UAV, we have full crap, half were shot down, in English articles and videos about UAV the first 10 comments are what the Turks have super UAVs, the best in the world and the galaxy.
          1. Proctologist
            Proctologist 30 June 2020 19: 30 New
            +2
            I remember the LHX helicopter. It was also a revolutionary concept, a lot of everything was laid in it and, it would seem, rested in a Bose ... And when Osama bin Laden was flunked, it turned out that the helicopter propellers were from the LHX project. And other technologies did not disappear, I am sure. Just lit up with the screws.

            Was the failure LHX? Will Zumwolt fail if they are no longer launched? Hm. Oh, not sure ...
            1. Local from the Volga
              Local from the Volga 30 June 2020 23: 54 New
              +1
              "And when Osama bin Laden was overwhelmed, it turned out that the propellers on the helicopters were from the LHX project," then one collapsed during landing ...
            2. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 30 June 2020 23: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: Proctologist
              And when Osama bin Laden was overwhelmed, it turned out that the helicopter propellers were from the LHX project.

              is this why they killed one helicopter? Well, say victory!
              1. Proctologist
                Proctologist 1 July 2020 19: 36 New
                0
                Well, for now, I just stated that the military application of LHX technologies has taken place, that is, the developments have come in handy. Successful or not? Hm. Firstly, the goal was achieved - undetected reached the goal and completed the combat mission, left without loss. Secondly, I don’t know the reasons for the helicopter crash, are they related to experimental technologies or not, it is not clear.

                Overall, I think the operation was successful. "Victory" in your terminology. The baptism was successful.
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 1 July 2020 20: 25 New
                  0
                  Quote: Proctologist
                  Overall, I think the operation was successful. "Victory" in your terminology. The baptism was successful.

                  interesting logic. I’ll clarify a bit, is the Vostochny spaceport also a success? rockets then launch.
                  1. Proctologist
                    Proctologist 2 July 2020 00: 45 New
                    0
                    Your example fails. "Vostochny" is not a project that was abandoned, but for which technologies that were in demand for other purposes were developed, but a constructed object. As if the LHX helicopter was built and tried to be used in battle, with "success" in proportion to the East.

                    It would be correct to compare the LHX with the Soviet "lunar" H-1 rocket, which also disappeared, like the LHX, but also left behind a legacy in the form of the NK-33 rocket engines, which were very successful.
                    1. Sanichsan
                      Sanichsan 2 July 2020 01: 15 New
                      0
                      Quote: Proctologist
                      Your example fails. "Vostochny" is not a project that was abandoned, but for which technologies that were in demand for other purposes were developed, but a constructed object.

                      why? the construction of a cosmodrome requires very non-trivial technologies that will be used in the future. Again, the fight against corruption schemes in connection with emerging thefts, is it bad? somehow more than a propeller from a helicopter that did not take off wink
                      Quote: Proctologist
                      It would be correct to compare the LHX with the Soviet "lunar" H-1 rocket, which also disappeared, like the LHX, but also left behind a legacy in the form of the NK-33 rocket engines, which were very successful.

                      not quite right. an engine for the lunar program was developed for the lunar program with the corresponding technical specifications.
                      in the case of LHX, they made a helicopter that failed. this is a fiasco, but something has been added. dubious achievement. the example with shells for the railgun is more suitable, with the only difference being that the screw was attached and the shells could not figure out where to attach it. in one case, something came in handy, 5 percent of the entire project, and in the second they still cannot figure out where to attach it.
                2. ProkletyiPirat
                  ProkletyiPirat 1 July 2020 20: 31 New
                  0
                  What’s wrong with the helicopter? there they hooked a stabilizing screw onto a cable with wires on it, then they were twisted and they fell off. And the reason for the hooking of the roofing felts is the error of the roofing felts pilot gust of roofing felts all together.
                  1. Proctologist
                    Proctologist 2 July 2020 00: 29 New
                    0
                    I did not know the cause of the accident - thanks for the explanation - but only pointed out that the "dead-end" LHX technologies were used in a real combat operation. As I now know, the screws worked flawlessly, the problem was not with them.
                    1. ProkletyiPirat
                      ProkletyiPirat 2 July 2020 02: 52 New
                      0
                      Well, do not exaggerate the acoustic stealth, it was never there, and the entire landing was based on the terrain and fast movement at low altitudes, and frankly, there were no special defense and defense systems there.
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 1 July 2020 00: 34 New
            0
            Quote: Grazdanin
            in the English-language articles and videos about UAV, the first 10 comments are what the Turks have super UAVs, the best in the world and the galaxy.

            And I don’t say a word that the Turks lost a quarter of the existing UAVs in the absence of an adequately organized air defense at Haftar
            1. Grazdanin
              Grazdanin 1 July 2020 00: 50 New
              0
              There is just delight. How many lost in general, few people are interested, it's the glands. The main tasks are completed and the pilots did not die. I’m only interested in how many hours the UAV has to fly to death. Yes, and I'm sure that the lion's share of these UAVs are lost due to technical problems and operator errors. For example, MQ1 has this.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 1 July 2020 00: 54 New
                0
                Quote: Grazdanin
                How many lost in general, few people are interested,

                In the absence of adequate air defense? Presumptuous ..... Despite the fact that there are no confirmed facts of the defeat of the combat-ready Armor!
                Quote: Grazdanin
                Yes, and I'm sure that the lion's share of these UAVs are lost due to technical problems and operator errors.


                Strongly unlikely, by force and a tight fit a quarter.
                1. Grazdanin
                  Grazdanin 1 July 2020 01: 07 New
                  0
                  Oh, no one cares, there they will draw 20 shells destroyed with 3 C300, there are 50 downed UAVs, in the end everyone is happy. The huge advantage of UAVs is that they are not a pity. The main trend. I generally for the fact that the robots would fight among themselves.
                  Britain has already launched its project, the UAV accompanying the fighter, they want their analogue of the American Kratos XQ-58. The program is called LANCA (Lightweight Affordable Novel Combat Aircraft)
  14. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 30 June 2020 11: 47 New
    +1
    Quote: Courier
    nobody built such destroyers.


    And they won’t be anymore. There is no point.
  15. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 30 June 2020 11: 52 New
    +4
    Quote: 5-9
    F-22 was better than F-15, they stopped making them


    I do not think so. Eagle, in principle, turned out to be a true masterpiece. And Silent Eagle with a powerful radar and a record-breaking missile salvo is a worthy alternative to the "Fifth Generation"
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 June 2020 22: 33 New
      0
      Silent needles are not produced. EPR was reduced a little, the price exceeded
      for 120 million
      An ordinary Eagle with a record number of missiles cannot conduct an air battle,
      maneuver. This is a flying weapon platform.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 30 June 2020 22: 42 New
        +2
        And what is there to maneuver with so many rockets? And the EPR is generally pointless. At a range of effective application of the RVV F-35, such a station as Irbis already accompanies it. The reduction in the EPR actually works when something like AiM-120 shies down at you, because the ARGS of the RVV is trivial there, the probability of getting into the interference decreases and greatly
  16. The comment was deleted.
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 1 July 2020 00: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: tnc17
      sharply became a problem and failed non-combat ship.

      so read what they write. it’s not we who invented and not the author, they don’t know where to attach it. they have at least two such disabled people at sea, this is an iron and LCS.
      and the concept with the planned series of 32 ships is a set-off good
      1. tnc17
        tnc17 1 July 2020 00: 20 New
        -1
        No one planned to build it anywhere, it was originally an experimental ship with unique technological and architectural solutions, whose fate was reduced to rolling back the latest marine technology and showing the technological superiority of the United States. And there is nothing surprising in the defects of the first prototype, everyone goes through it, because errors at the design stage can not be reduced to zero in principle.
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 1 July 2020 14: 24 New
          0
          Quote: tnc17
          it was originally an experimental ship with unique technological and architectural solutions

          a series of 32 pieces? experimental cruiser in a series of 32 pieces ??? belay
          change the training manual. your theses are mildly sucked out of the finger. an experimental instance is released 1, especially of such a scale as a cruiser. This is a pronounced gagging series that do not know how to apply. also like F-35 laughing
          1. tnc17
            tnc17 1 July 2020 14: 32 New
            -1
            A 32-piece series was planned for the dd-21 project, which was later simplified to the dd (X) project, the simplified project of which became known as the Zwolt and went into a small series. So there is no training manual, you just need to enable the logic.
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 1 July 2020 20: 50 New
              0
              Quote: tnc17
              A 32-piece series was planned for the dd-21 project, which was later simplified to the dd (X) project

              everything mixed up in the house of Oblomsky ...
              dd-21 is a project that was never implemented in the Chinese composite. it was renamed to dd (X) and they had an order for 32, then 24, then 7, and as a result 3 of which 2 were no longer from a non-kosher Chinese composite, but from the best American steel in the world with democracy molecules! how this affects the visibility is clear ... request
              Quote: tnc17
              So there is no training manual, you just need to enable the logic.

              rather a fantasy wink
          2. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 1 July 2020 20: 37 New
            0
            Quote: SanichSan
            a series of 32 pieces? experimental cruiser in a series of 32 pieces ???

            This is a feature of financing such projects in the USA, the program + amount is at the core, and the qualitative / quantitative result can float, that is, the costs have risen during the development process, they (USA) the project amount remains unchanged, and the number of ships in the project drops ... The USSR and the Russian Federation have a different financing model, we have a fixed result, and the cost is floating.
      2. tnc17
        tnc17 1 July 2020 00: 24 New
        -2
        Regarding lcs, it’s even funnier, because the project didn’t even come close to the failed one and is only brought up during the production process. Yes, during the final stages of design, there were some problems with its armament (or rather, with its absence), but the modular architecture allows you to upgrade and re-equip ships as you please.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 1 July 2020 00: 44 New
          0
          ElCEeS is a failure at the concept level, the implementation turned out even worse, because it is an alien from a different reality, where the USA successfully built Pax Americana, successfully ruined / defeated increasingly less militarily powerful states, and finally came to the conclusion that they should fight seriously there’s no one, for Jonka will meet a maximum of KKPs on the expanses of the ocean, and on the shore there are several howitzers, a pair of T-55s or the ancient Russian Termite or Chinese Silkuorm, and in the worst case, something like the mainland can fly from the depths of the warring continent against all military transport aircraft with a pair of no less ancient exosets.
          It is precisely for such conditions of the patrol and police service that ElCaeS is imprisoned. Yes, and modular architecture if you are not in the know is over, from the word in general. THIS DOESN’T WORK.
          And that is why the United States bought a European frigate project for construction at its shipyards.
          As for Zumwalt, you too were mistaken in an inappropriate impulse of patriotism. It was planned not an experienced ship but a rather sickly series of 32 ships. But Burke was much more adequate ...
          1. tnc17
            tnc17 1 July 2020 02: 00 New
            0
            There is no concept failure there, the concept is quite consistent, they just decided not to finish it, but the general modular architecture of the projects has not gone away. Lcs was built for reality, in which one ship could perform many different functions in the allied and enemy coastal zone, at the moment, nothing has changed. The frigate doesn’t stand at all here, he is the ideological successor of the olives, and the lcs is a multifunctional corvette. So your words will be true only when in your little world, by analogy, the purchase of scraps indicates a complete failure of the concept of Soviet obt. No one planned to buy Zumwalt in a series of 32 ships, this is an experimental ship, a simplified version of the initial project of the destroyer DD (X), which was a simplified and reduced version of the project of the super destroyer DD-21, so they planned to buy it in the amount of 32 pieces.
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 1 July 2020 08: 15 New
              +1
              It all ended in collapse. The construction of the Elceae collapse will build a normal adequately armed frigate. Modules, by the way, also go there. The main weapons will not be kept in replaceable modules. Because no one has yet come up with removable sailors lying on the base for conservation. Explanations further why I will skip this way. You in your little world still do not understand. The module is used and will continue to be used to change the base of auxiliary equipment. It will be possible to take, for example, a temporary holding chamber or for example a module with diving equipment.
              The frigate doesn’t stand at all here, he is the ideological successor of the olives, and the lcs is a multifunctional corvette.

              - worth it. You do not understand the difference along the way. In principle, when they realized that ElceeS, even if it was modernized, was still not capable of anything, they decided to build Frigates. For the fleet of the so-called hegemon, many ships are needed to control the planet. Until.
              Zumwalt no one planned to buy a series of 32 ships,

              Actually planned, the rest you just do not know. It was just that the series was cut both in the performance characteristics and in quantity and as a result the final came. Yes, for experimenting, one ship is enough. I tell you this because you are not in the know.
              Lcs was built for reality, in which one ship could perform many different functions in the allied and enemy coastal zone, at the moment, nothing has changed.

              It will follow, of course, before the first meeting with the enemy, more or less adequate. Therefore, they decided that an adequately armed frigate was needed, cheaper to maintain in view of the times smaller crew and adequately armed.
              1. tnc17
                tnc17 1 July 2020 14: 26 New
                -2
                36 orders were made and 20 were built at lcs, there is nothing strange in curtailing production after such a series, and the series is too big for a failed ship. Lcs was developed as a multi-functional corvette, its functions include patrol and patrol, reconnaissance, anti-submarine and mine action, conducting amphibious and evacuation operations, as well as transporting large loads. And the ship copes with these functions, now it can even fight ships. And just in these functions of his, the task of opposing powerful enemy forces is not worth it, is it assigned to other cars, or should you and the tanker fight against tanks? Is a frigate under construction a ship of a completely different class with different functions, is this indicated by at least a 2.5 times greater displacement, or have your ticendices been replaced by dock ships?
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 1 July 2020 14: 53 New
                  +1
                  Quote: tnc17
                  36 orders were made and 20 were built at lcs, there is nothing strange in curtailing production after such a series, and the series is too big for a failed ship.

                  folding the series is one of the signs of failure. wink and this is not the biggest failure series. over there F-35 are still building laughing
                  Quote: tnc17
                  And just in these functions of his, the task of opposing enemy ships is not worth it, it is assigned to other machines
                  Is the frigate replacement not suited to withstand other ships? original laughing when you write, think what you write? you yourself don’t understand what you wrote to the campaign laughing built a replacement frigates, but got the hell out of that. that’s why it’s a failure. complete failure! and in the US everyone is talking about it. in the USA! not here.
              2. tnc17
                tnc17 1 July 2020 14: 28 New
                -2
                And again, no one planned to build a zumwalt in such a series, such a series was planned for its prototype, the initial dd-21 project.
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 1 July 2020 14: 39 New
                  +2
                  Quote: tnc17
                  such a series was planned for his prototype, the initial dd-21 project.

                  even the liberoid wiki says:
                  Initially, the naval forces hoped to build 32 of these destroyers. Later, this number was reduced to 24, and then to seven due to the high cost of new experimental technologies that should be included in the destroyer. The U.S. House of Representatives is still skeptical of this program due to ship problems with missile defense systems
                  do you hope that if you repeat nonsense 1000 times then it will cease to be nonsense? request Do you have Google blocked? Come and read. we talk about well-known things wink
        2. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 1 July 2020 14: 28 New
          +2
          Quote: tnc17
          Regarding lcs, it’s even funnier, because the project didn’t even come close to the failed one and is only brought up during the production process.

          brought to what? read the American press. there everyone openly says that LCS is a failure in which a lot of money is swelled. he cannot resist even the Chinese frigates.
          1. tnc17
            tnc17 1 July 2020 14: 40 New
            -1
            And in the American press they talk about the imminent coming of God, the imminent collapse of the country and the arrival of aliens. I do not advise taking this seriously. In general, it’s funny to look at the local inhabitants, who don’t understand a damn thing in the work of the American media system and government, and quote all sorts of articles and reports of dubious persons.
  17. Engineer
    Engineer 30 June 2020 15: 39 New
    +2
    Even under the ambitious DD-21 program, they were not going to build 32 of them. And even more so as the replacement of 22 cruisers of the Ticonderoga type were going to build 19pcs. If one day the Leader destroyers will finally begin to build, then the Americans will immediately adjust the program for drip filling the sea with such ships. A tap then they have much more.
    If you remove the two guns to place launchers there, then this is only to the advantage of the low radio observability of the ship. Don't you think that someone will place launchers like Basalt containers?
    Zumwalt is unique in that it applies a new scheme of full electric movement not directly from the turbine, but from the generator. The extra step required more powerful sources of energy. And this means that in terms of energy potential on board it loses only to the atomic one. But noticeably cheaper than the latter. Given that such ships have been in operation for more than a dozen years, it is obvious that in the future it will become a ready-made platform for various energy weapons such as railguns and lasers. And the land power of regional importance, which has not mastered the production of its own ship diesel engines (and also for parade equipment too) and marine turbines in 30 years, can only be scared by cartoons about hypersonic missiles and mock-ups of destroyers in the Egyptian style.
  18. Undecim
    Undecim 30 June 2020 16: 35 New
    +5
    Did the author decide to "shake off the dust" from American publications five years ago?
    As soon as Zumwalt rolled off the quay wall for the first time, in the US itself it immediately received the title of "the symbol of the US defense procurement system, which is rapidly losing its ability to meet national security needs", which can destroy nothing but the budget.
    1. tnc17
      tnc17 1 July 2020 00: 26 New
      0
      By sailing, the zumvolt received the title of a technological masterpiece, but by no means an indicator of the carelessness of the system for allocating funds for military needs.
  19. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 1 July 2020 01: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: Grazdanin
    I generally for the fact that the robots would fight among themselves.


    This is the path to a military disaster sooner or later.
  20. Scorp 1981
    Scorp 1981 2 July 2020 01: 58 New
    0
    Zircon to help him! Although I think a strong storm will not survive ...
  21. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 12 August 2020 10: 15 New
    0
    Equip with tomogavki and there will be a floating arsenal or You can shoot in a movie ... if that.
  22. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 11 September 2020 22: 51 New
    0
    This is not the first and not the last expensive and disastrous program for mattress covers. They will survive somehow, turn on the printing press)))
  23. yehat2
    yehat2 9 October 2020 10: 16 New
    0
    And I thought the most problematic were the LCS ships