Military Review

Potemkin hospital as a symbol of the future of Russia

245

When this material comes out, the grand opening of the 200-bed infectious diseases hospital near Voronezh specialized in coronavirus is likely to take place.


There will be solemn speeches, ribbon cuts, bravura reports. And the governor may not be confused in numbers.

But the recent events around this hospital, which was already talked about on the central channels, make us think about a very sad topic.

On the one hand, yes, the military erected a hospital very quickly. Construction began on April 25 at the direct direction of Putin. And now, on June 29th, there will be a discovery.

Potemkin hospital as a symbol of the future of Russia

It's nice that the military, who built the corps, can still and can. Unpleasant much more.

It would be worth telling about how staffing was done separately, but the trouble is: none of the “staffed” people want to talk about it openly. Mainly due to unwillingness to subsequently move to another city.

We are mainly interested in the following point: in the hospital, even according to the project, heating was not provided for in the usual sense. That is, all these pipes, boilers, radiators.

When this information is through the efforts of a local newspaper (Notepad) “The new infectious diseases hospital in Voronezh does not have a heating system” crawled out, the power reacted instantly. The spokesman for the governor Artem Sokolnikov instantly explained: “The premise in your headline is not entirely true. Indeed, this is a typical project in which the heating is not water, which we are used to, but electric. Such an electric convector is installed in all areas of the hospital. ” And he sent this photo:


Standing ovation.

In general, a hospital is such a structure.


And these convectors are supposed to heat everything: boxes, treatment rooms, resuscitation rooms, personnel rooms, warehouses.

The total area of ​​the hospital is more than 10 square meters. The building, please note, is one-story. And now he, standing almost in the field, will be heated with electricity.

I turned to a friend of energy. So, to clear my conscience, because I myself understand perfectly well that it is possible to heat with electricity if ... If, as they say, this building, built according to the project for the southern regions, will not collide with our frosts. And frosts in our strip happen up to -30 degrees. And with excellent steppe winds.

In general, one can speak a lot about the weather in the central black earth zone. -30 somewhere in Siberia is one thing, but as many in the steppes near Voronezh, believe me, they feel completely different.

In general, she история the appearance of this hospital was very interesting and instructive. The Voronezh Governor Gusev turned to Putin with the initiative to build. Transcripts and recordings of conversations on the Internet are enough, I used the recording, a link to which I will give at the end. That there were no claims that I was engaged in fakes or invented something.

The governor wanted three (THREE years, Karl !!!) to build an infectious diseases hospital for 2,5 billion rubles. And he wanted to contribute 20% himself, and 80% should have been given according to his plan by Putin.

Putin did not want to pay that much money, but called Shoigu, who said that there was a project for the construction of the corps in 2 months. And for 250 million rubles.

Fast and cheap versus long and expensive.

Applause again.

Now it remains to wait for the winter and see how it is, convectors against the wind and frost.

There is, however, one positive point. I talked to an employee of the company that supplied the electrician. I was told that everything was done according to the project and according to GOST.

This is good, it is encouraging.

That's just no one saw the project, he is there, in the bowels of the Ministry of Defense. And for what latitudes it was developed without normal heating - this is a question.

For Sochi, probably, it would be quite. For Voronezh - is doubtful.

However, the project has been implemented, the money has been disbursed. We’ll solemnly cut the ribbon. And what will happen next is not so important, after all. The main thing is done! And how literally in half a year everything will be ... It will be only in half a year.

In an extreme case, we remove the convectors (I wonder how many of them are real there) and put the infrared. If the wiring can withstand, of course. NNPP, which is 40 kilometers away, will give any amount of energy, the whole question is who will pay for this New Year tree in winter.

The freebie ended a long time ago ...

And you can also extend a pipe with a coolant from a nearby hospital No. 8, break through walls, extend pipes and install normal radiators.

And to master a little more money under the howl of a saw.

But it will be a completely different story.

In the meantime, it remains only to think about how the doctors and patients of the new hospital will feel in the winter. Warming frozen hands on the convector. And cherishing his pneumonia with a hidden coronavirus inside.

Overall an interesting picture. In winter, we will return to this topic, it will be informative to find out what is better: long and expensive or fast and cheap.

If only the building of the new hospital would not become a sort of Potemkin hospital. Abandoned in the winter, with escaped doctors and patients who do not want to freeze.

In fairness, it is worth saying that the Ministry of Defense has built more than one such hospital. As many as four. Three more were erected in the Republic of Dagestan, in Kaspiysk, Khasavyurt and Derbent.

But if you look at the map, then the same Derbent for a thousand and a few kilometers south of Voronezh. And, it is quite possible that there you can easily get by in the winter with heaters and not freeze. But in Voronezh, it certainly won’t work out.

It's a pity though. And 250 million rubles, and the labor of military engineers, who plowed around the clock for two months.

Sources:
https://tass.ru/obschestvo/8852997
https://bloknot-voronezh.ru/news/press-sekretar-gubernatora-guseva-pokazal-otopleni-1237644?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2Fnews
https://bloknot-voronezh.ru/news/u-bystrovozvodimoy-infektsionnoy-bolnitse-voronezh-1237459?sphrase_id=1494913
https://v-kurse-voronezh.ru/politika-novosti/72019
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  1. Woodman
    Woodman 3 July 2020 10: 08
    34
    In winter, we will return to this topic, it will be informative to find out what is better: long and expensive or fast and cheap
    The main thing is not to forget to "return". It will be very interesting to see the result.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 3 July 2020 10: 15
      0
      In an extreme case, we remove the convectors (I wonder how many of them are real there) and put the infrared. If the wiring can withstand, of course. NNPP, which is 40 kilometers away, will give any amount of energy, the whole question is who will pay for this New Year tree in winter.

      They will raise the price of electricity for the population, business then .. But in general, it would be possible to install a gas power station ..
      The terrible thing is that you start to get used to such things .. gouging or intent is not clear, but both harm the state and people .. but there will always be no responsible people.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 3 July 2020 10: 20
        11
        Quote: Svarog
        could install a gas power station ..

        if there are no networks, it would be possible to install heating on liquid fuel, but here it must be considered that it is more profitable to bring electric networks or to carry fuel oil
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 3 July 2020 10: 30
          25
          The point is to mount steam heating on an ultra-cheap hospital from sandwich panels. This is a homeless option, so that covid-19 patients on the lawn do not lie awaiting help. Skomorokhov should be glad that such a hospital was built.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 3 July 2020 10: 37
            -5
            The point is to mount steam heating on an ultra-cheap hospital from sandwich panels. This is a homeless option, so that covid-19 patients on the lawn do not lie awaiting help.

            So this is money down the drain. Hospitals do not need to be built. About that, in fact, an article.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 3 July 2020 13: 32
              +4
              Quote: Svarog
              So this is money down the drain. Hospitals do not need to be built. About that, in fact, an article.

              Well, what's the problem, let them build ...
              This is a multifunctional center of Moscow Region, and not a civil infectious diseases hospital.
            2. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 3 July 2020 13: 35
              +3
              Quote: Svarog
              Hospitals do not need to be built.

              But what does it have to do with disposability at all? !!!
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. NordUral
            NordUral 3 July 2020 11: 45
            -12 qualifying.
            Ultra-cheap hospital, but super-expensive heating (and very fire hazardous).
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 3 July 2020 12: 45
              +6
              The main task is ultrafast.
              Could be even faster, but with tents and this can happen.

              This is Severo-Yeniseysk, a field hospital after a hurricane.
              1. DED_peer_DED
                DED_peer_DED 3 July 2020 22: 48
                +2
                Ebola mortality rate is 72%
                Nipach virus infection has various clinical manifestations - from asymptomatic (subclinical) infection to acute respiratory infection and fatal encephalitis.
                The mortality rate of cases is estimated from 40% to 75%. This may vary by outbreak, depending on local capacity for epidemiological surveillance and clinical management.
                Nipah virus can be transmitted to humans from animals (such as bats or pigs) or through contaminated food, and it can also be transmitted directly from humans to humans.

                Who is "coronavirus" with its up to 0,4% mortality rate compared to at least the above infections?
                Who and when stooped the whole world with the ABOVE infections in orders of magnitude more serious than with "coronavirus"?
                1. doubovitski
                  doubovitski 4 July 2020 17: 25
                  0
                  Quote: DED_peer_DED
                  Ebola mortality rate is 72%
                  Nipach virus infection has various clinical manifestations - from asymptomatic (subclinical) infection to acute respiratory infection and fatal encephalitis.
                  The mortality rate of cases is estimated from 40% to 75%. This may vary by outbreak, depending on local capacity for epidemiological surveillance and clinical management.
                  Nipah virus can be transmitted to humans from animals (such as bats or pigs) or through contaminated food, and it can also be transmitted directly from humans to humans.

                  Who is "coronavirus" with its up to 0,4% mortality rate compared to at least the above infections?
                  Who and when stooped the whole world with the ABOVE infections in orders of magnitude more serious than with "coronavirus"?

                  I would like to tell the percentage specialist here and now the degree of infection tolerance. Bubbon plague, of course, is a more productive disease, but a remedy has already been found for it, and it is not so actively tolerated. Of course, you don’t know that the total number of deaths in a short time, in less than a year, has already reached 11 107 987 people. From this harmless cold. Where have these terrible diseases been so successful these days? And this, with a meager effect of 0,4%? You just need to hang for your arithmetic.
              2. Narak-zempo
                Narak-zempo 4 July 2020 15: 42
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                This is Severo-Yeniseysk, a field hospital after a hurricane.

                We are waiting for Navalny’s investigation about who stole the storm guy wires for tents laughing laughing laughing
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 4 July 2020 17: 00
                  +2
                  Quote: Narak-zempo
                  We are waiting for Navalny’s investigation about who stole the storm guy wires for tents

                  These are tents. It is impossible to guarantee that they will not be demolished
          3. Prisoner
            Prisoner 3 July 2020 12: 57
            0
            Who should be happy? ... Well, it’s you, my friend, dreaming. These things go against the image. laughing
          4. Moore
            Moore 4 July 2020 05: 36
            +9
            As a former plumber, I will add that a properly selected electric convector will heat the area "assigned" to it no worse than any other heating system. He, as a rule, also has a thermal relay - set the temperature as you want.
            Subtleties:
            1. Electricity such a system will eat as if not in itself.
            2. If you save on the power of convectors (this is taking into account the sandwich panels from guano and hardly five-chamber double-glazed windows) - it will be very fresh.
            1. doubovitski
              doubovitski 4 July 2020 17: 45
              +3
              Quote: Moore
              As a former plumber, I will add that a properly selected electric convector will heat the area "assigned" to it no worse than any other heating system. He, as a rule, also has a thermal relay - set the temperature as you want.
              Subtleties:
              1. Electricity such a system will eat as if not in itself.
              2. If you save on the power of convectors (this is taking into account the sandwich panels from guano and hardly five-chamber double-glazed windows) - it will be very fresh.

              As a former developer of various electrical systems, I will say that in order to heat a room with hot water, you need to pull TWO pipes, although, for this purpose, it is enough to pull two wires. Pipes are laid in trenches. in boxes, and they bastards rust at the same time on both sides. The heat distribution in such a system is not amenable to any means. Residents in the upper relief buildings open windows, in the lower, they put on a second blanket for the night. Resistance to any harmful phenomena in pipes is more than low, and their replacement causes universal digging of streets and squares. Replacing the wire is easier than the lung- dragged it from one well, dry, not conducting either shit or water, just any electrical wiring, from a large coil and connect it instead of the burned one. In a regular high school, they taught that the efficiency of the electric grid is 97%, which indicates a loss of only 3% of electricity in the wires. In pipes, tens of percent is lost. Yes, and the cost of metal pipes and wires, well, very much not in favor of the pipe. Maintenance of all pump and other valves and transformers, which has been operating for decades, with the correct replacement of cooling oil .....
              Only here, in Russia, the heiress of the USSR, housing and communal services are heated by central heating. Hence the lice. The heat from the heater, standing in the room, remains EVERYTHING in this room, not getting lost along the way to the network. To get a warm room, you need not to generate heat, but to keep it.
              1. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
                Andrey Krasnoyarsky 7 July 2020 09: 05
                0
                Viktor Kuzmich, your arguments are quite convincing, it is clear that this is the opinion of a professional in his field. But now sofa "specialists" will come running, who are not able to replace the electrical outlet in the room on their own, and will prove that you understand everything wrong about electric heating.
              2. Jager
                Jager 9 July 2020 09: 23
                0
                This is all true. But. For old worn-out systems from the time of Brezhnev. There have never been problems with heating in the house, but electricity is often turned off.
        2. Basil50
          Basil50 3 July 2020 10: 34
          31
          The author simply retold everything that he * was blown into his ears *, not knowing and not understanding the essence of the event, or pretends that he does not understand. This is how Zlobin behaves in Solovyov when there is nothing to say, but you want to.
          . Any building has its own life and purpose. Even military builders, even civilians, come from this during construction.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 10: 38
            -10 qualifying.
            Quote: Vasily50
            The author simply retold everything that he * was blown into his ears *, not knowing and not understanding the essence of the event, or pretends that he does not understand. This is how Zlobin behaves in Solovyov when there is nothing to say, but you want to.

            Tell me better if you have something to say.
            Quote: Vasily50
            Any building has its own life and purpose. Even military builders, even civilians, come from this during construction.

            Maybe in your opinion it would be better to put up tents?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 3 July 2020 12: 41
              17
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Maybe in your opinion it would be better to put up tents?

              Were you so puzzled by the struggle against the regime that you missed the fact that you had to put up tents?
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 14: 23
                -5
                Quote: Spade
                Were you so puzzled by the struggle against the regime that you missed the fact that you had to put up tents?

                You know what I mean and nevertheless distort.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 3 July 2020 14: 26
                  +8
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  You know what I meant

                  I know.
                  "I don't care what's really there, but the damn mode is wrong by default."
                  laughing laughing laughing

                  Indeed, in fact, tents were exactly the alternative to these multifunctional centers. And not the new cool ones, but the Soviet CSS / TSI. With potbelly stoves, not electric radiators
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 15: 34
                    -2
                    Quote: Spade
                    Indeed, in fact, tents were exactly the alternative to these multifunctional centers. And not the new cool ones, but the Soviet CSS / TSI. With potbelly stoves, not electric radiators

                    And please tell me who "optimized" infectious diseases hospitals?
                    What is it all being built for instead? Nobody is against multifunctional medical centers. I just want these multifunctional medical centers not to be temporary structures, but to function on an ongoing basis. And if so, then electric heaters, over time (before winter), should be replaced by water heating. Since it is several times cheaper to operate, and therefore more efficient.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 4 July 2020 17: 01
                      -3
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      And please tell me who "optimized" infectious diseases hospitals?

                      Are you trying to blame someone for not being able to predict the future?
                    2. doubovitski
                      doubovitski 4 July 2020 18: 04
                      +1
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      Quote: Spade
                      Indeed, in fact, tents were exactly the alternative to these multifunctional centers. And not the new cool ones, but the Soviet CSS / TSI. With potbelly stoves, not electric radiators

                      And please tell me who "optimized" infectious diseases hospitals?
                      What is it all being built for instead? Nobody is against multifunctional medical centers. I just want these multifunctional medical centers not to be temporary structures, but to function on an ongoing basis. And if so, then electric heaters, over time (before winter), should be replaced by water heating. Since it is several times cheaper to operate, and therefore more efficient.

                      Only ignoramuses can say that. Electric heat is much more profitable than water. Firstly, it is mobile. It is possible to arrange electricity heating during the hours. Secondly, it is regulated by one turn of the switch or regulator. It is easier to organize thermostating of heating, achieving a constant indoor climate. . Thirdly, a room with water heating, if it is idle (sometimes it happens), is forced to heat anyway, otherwise the registers will freeze and ..... The electrician is not afraid of shutting down, and if necessary, the room can be easily and safely frozen. Generating heat, anywhere, still requires energy. If 1 kilowatt hour contains 860 kilocalories, then it doesn’t matter where this energy is spent, in the boiler room or directly in the room. But in the room there is no loss of network heat transfer.
                      1. Jager
                        Jager 9 July 2020 09: 29
                        0
                        "simple and safe" freezing of electrical equipment is possible only designed for the appropriate modes in accordance with GOST. I strongly doubt that the Chinese convectors are designed for this.
          2. NordUral
            NordUral 3 July 2020 11: 46
            -3
            Whatever the author would say, but with such radiators the hospital is -30, but you can’t warm it in the wind.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. NordUral
                NordUral 3 July 2020 12: 29
                0
                Offset! Just look at the radiator, though it is not clear what area and cubic capacity is. And what heat loss through the enclosing.
                There are several more countries, France, Germany, Sweden, where this type of heating is present in up to thirty percent of buildings ...
                These lucky ones had a stove - Gulf Stream, Lopatov.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 3 July 2020 12: 35
                  +6
                  Quote: NordUral
                  Offset! Just look at the radiator, though it is not clear what area and cubic capacity is.

                  Of course it’s not clear. However, Putin's Russia will certainly be cold

                  Quote: NordUral
                  These lucky ones had a stove - Gulf Stream, Lopatov.

                  And what did I have near Irkutsk? I worked there at one time in a store before entering college ... A store on the highway of three building beams. And not even electric heating, but a couple of old Soviet electric fireplaces

                  I probably froze to death then. True, I do not remember this. Or didn’t he freeze, because Putin was not in power then? Come on, come up with a politically correct explanation yourself ...
                  1. NordUral
                    NordUral 3 July 2020 12: 45
                    -4
                    True, I do not remember this.
                    You were young, the blood was hot.
                    He was interested in heating problems for his summer house, the topic was worked out thoroughly for me.
                    Let's look in the winter of the 21st, maybe there will be information on this hospital.
                    Glad to make a mistake.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 3 July 2020 12: 48
                      +7
                      Quote: NordUral
                      You were young, the blood was hot.

                      Yeah, they were in shirts. Hot.
                      It’s cooler during the day when people walked actively, but we didn’t work during the day.

                      Quote: NordUral
                      He was interested in heating problems for his summer house, the topic was worked out thoroughly for me.

                      http://www.topclimat.ru/images/files/issledovanie-r.pdf

                      1. NordUral
                        NordUral 3 July 2020 12: 55
                        0
                        Thank! Although familiar with similar reviews.
                        I only wrote that the radiator is small, even on that square. what is visible, and not that electric heating is inefficient.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 July 2020 13: 09
                        +7
                        Quote: NordUral
                        I only wrote that the radiator is small

                        I would not say anything in appearance. Little ones are very remote.

                        In addition, it is unknown, this is the main heating system, or auxiliary.
                        And the main one may be an air conditioner. A friend told me that the medical institution is new, minus 20, and the batteries are all disconnected, thermostats to zero

                        So all this is true, with a pitchfork over the water, determining the sex of the child from the image of the pregnant belly.
                      3. NordUral
                        NordUral 3 July 2020 13: 29
                        -4
                        I agree, there is not enough data, but the type of structure and this radiator against its background are not convincing. Winter will show.
                        Although the article, in my opinion, is not at all about heating systems.
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 July 2020 13: 38
                        +7
                        Quote: NordUral
                        Although the article, in my opinion, is not at all about heating systems.

                        Ага.
                        About the right choice of energy experts laughing laughing laughing
                      5. NordUral
                        NordUral 3 July 2020 17: 33
                        -3
                        About the correct choice of the energy class of the structure. And wider - about the right choice.
                  2. alstr
                    alstr 3 July 2020 13: 35
                    +9
                    The most important thing in heating is minimizing the heat loss of a building.
                    Everything else is already secondary, because if the walls are conditionally leaky, then no heaters in any quantity will help.
                  3. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 3 July 2020 13: 38
                    +2
                    Quote: alstr
                    because if the walls are conditionally holey

                    And they are "conditionally full of holes", because otherwise it will not work. Ventilation....
                  4. alstr
                    alstr 3 July 2020 13: 52
                    +5
                    Hole hole discord. Ventilation is one thing, and walls are another thing, and most importantly, joints lose heat in wild quantities.
                    Approximately like this:
                  5. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 3 July 2020 14: 24
                    0
                    Quote: alstr
                    Ventilation is one thing

                    Very powerful ventilation. Against the background of which all these joints have little influence.
                  6. alstr
                    alstr 3 July 2020 16: 16
                    +4
                    The air flow in the ventilation, if properly done, is heated (roughly). Therefore, the room is not substantially cooled.
                  7. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 4 July 2020 16: 51
                    -1
                    Quote: alstr
                    The air flow in the ventilation, if properly done, is heated (roughly). Therefore, the room is not substantially cooled.

                    Sure. First, the air removed from the room through the recuperator, then with a special heating system, if necessary.
                    That is, it turns out that you can do without radiators at all?
                  8. alstr
                    alstr 6 July 2020 09: 15
                    +2
                    It is possible, but upon use it is a big hemorrhoids.

                    I know two buildings where air cooling is used and where there are big problems with heating.
                    This is the Hermitage and the complex of buildings on the Sverdlovsk embankment.
                    And if the Hermitage manages to maintain a normal climate normally (although there are enough problems there), then on Sverdlovskaya Embankment there are big problems with this. In winter it is very cold.

                    Those. in our climate it works very poorly. Need an additional heating system. Plus, we are very bad with the actual designers of such systems.
                  9. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 6 July 2020 12: 19
                    0
                    Quote: alstr
                    It is possible, but upon use it is a big hemorrhoids.

                    In fact, as far as I know, this is exactly what is being done.
    2. NordUral
      NordUral 3 July 2020 21: 54
      0
      It all depends on the degree of thermal insulation and insolation. True, everything depends on finances.
  2. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 3 July 2020 21: 50
    +2
    Quote: NordUral
    I only wrote that the radiator is small, even on that square. what is visible

    Yes?!!!
    you can see somewhere on the strength of two square meters with a big stretch
    and where did you get that small for this square ?!
  3. NordUral
    NordUral 4 July 2020 20: 06
    -1
    And you look at all the photos - 12 square meters. area of ​​the chamber.
  4. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 4 July 2020 21: 03
    +1
    at a standard height of 2.7 it is about 1,2 kW which is quite suitable for the dimensions in the photo
  5. NordUral
    NordUral 4 July 2020 21: 18
    -1
    Perhaps I will not argue. Without accurate data on the total heat loss, it is difficult to say either for or against. I spoke incorrectly in the first remark.
  6. NordUral
    NordUral 3 July 2020 22: 04
    -2
    I went over the link, but thanks anyway!
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 3 July 2020 17: 19
    +1
    She ... Putin didn’t get it. And I would definitely freeze it. laughing
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 4 July 2020 00: 56
    +3
    Quote: Spade
    I probably froze to death then. True, I do not remember this. Or didn’t he freeze, because Putin was not in power then? Come on, come up with a politically correct explanation yourself ...

    Count up, Lopatov, I'm standing at the machine, pouring emulsion from a spray bottle, steam is coming down from my hands in mittens, my feet in felt boots are freezing, the boss is yelling: "Well, Vovan, we need more ..." And there was no heating, from the word at all , expensive...
    1. Jager
      Jager 9 July 2020 09: 37
      0
      For us, people worked at KZTS in one private office. Foreign investors arrived, so they poor people did not understand at all how it is possible to exist and not work in such conditions. When snow falls on a machine from a perforated roof at - 28. Stalingrad in miniature.
      And the conditional Petrovich works on this machine for 8 hours a day for 30 thousand.
  • serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 5 July 2020 20: 26
    0
    Inhabitants were not invited here.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 3 July 2020 21: 48
    +2
    Quote: NordUral
    Whatever the author would say, but with such radiators the hospital is -30, but you can’t warm it in the wind.

    can you justify ?!
  • doubovitski
    doubovitski 4 July 2020 18: 21
    +3
    Quote: NordUral
    Whatever the author would say, but with such radiators the hospital is -30, but you can’t warm it in the wind.

    How do you know?
    In Turkey there is a cave in which a bath is made. It is heated by ONE CANDLE. The entrance to the cave is from bottom to top, and the walls are punched in volcanic tuff., A very porous and good heat insulator. You should always read not the characteristics of the heating appliances, but know the characteristics of the room. Any air heater, no matter how it is advertised, produces the same heat with the most homemade oak. Heat is not produced by a heater, but by electricity. It doesn’t matter in which iron to bask. For every kilowatt hour, 860 kilocalories are given.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 10: 43
    11
    Electricity is more practical, but at a price almost the same. Fuel oil is almost never used now, and serves only as reserve fuel.
    The question is different, why in a country that has the largest reserves and gas production in the world, they heat it with electricity? Gas lines can be brought quickly, and an autonomous boiler room will provide hot water and heating.
    The problem is relevant for the whole country, where% of gasification is determined by the number of settlements, rather than households.
    A personal example is the Mezhdurechensk urban settlement that has been officially gasified, and in fact more than half of the village has heard tales of gas for more than 10 years.
    And Putin, as always, isn’t in the know, these are boyars intrigues! wassat
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 3 July 2020 12: 23
      +2
      Well, for example, due to the fact that the central is far away and the inset into it will become more expensive than the structure itself.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 13: 40
        +6
        Well, based on the thesis that we primarily export gas, you are certainly right.
        Although ..... The power of Siberia is not the most profitable project of Gazprom. So the Chinese can pull gas, do not care about profitability, but their own population is not? wink
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 3 July 2020 13: 58
          0
          what are you talking about? we sell a third on average for export. We ourselves consume wild quantities. twice as much as we sell. yes and that’s not even the point. pulling it abruptly makes the project more expensive. why explain?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 14: 01
            +4
            Why are you feeding your children? It’s expensive and not economically feasible. wink
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 3 July 2020 14: 03
              0
              are you normal Let’s build a nuclear power plant for a hospital with 200 beds. why trifle then. I do not build a meat factory in order to feed children
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 14: 07
                +2
                T. Ye. Do you think that people pulling gas to their house with an area of ​​200 sq. M are not normal? Since when did a gas boiler house with a capacity of 100-200 kilowatts become your analogue of a nuclear power plant? fool
                1. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 3 July 2020 14: 19
                  -1
                  it’s you who turned to analogies with questions about why to feed children. I already wrote above that now there are technologies that are cheaper in electric heating than any boilers. you can’t give a damn about profitability. but why if everything can be done both cheaper and more economically? these buildings were built in 60 days. you want to pull almost a gas pipeline to them, don’t understand why
                2. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 14: 38
                  +3
                  Quote: carstorm 11
                  Now there are technologies that are cheaper in electric heating than any boilers.

                  Solar panels and windmills? wassat There is now nothing cheaper than a gas boiler.
                  And yet, a gas pipeline with a diameter of 50 mm and a length of 2 km. stretches for a week maximum.
                3. carstorm 11
                  carstorm 11 3 July 2020 14: 44
                  -1
                  I do not want to argue the Internet to help. here in the branch all this has already been listed and there is no sense in repeating it.
                4. Free wind
                  Free wind 3 July 2020 14: 56
                  +4
                  There is. Gas ICE-GENERATOR. Where is the exhaust system and the cooling system through heat exchangers powered by electric heating boilers. Efficiency more than 90%, against 50% of a gas boiler. It produces both electricity and heat.
                5. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 15: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Free Wind
                  Gas ICE-GENERATOR.

                  Cost of equipment issue?
                6. Free wind
                  Free wind 3 July 2020 15: 57
                  +1
                  ICE-Generator, if any, ICE is an internal combustion engine, then the rest of the Pribluda can be done. It’s just that in this case homemade products will be banned.
            2. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 4 July 2020 21: 15
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              And yet, a gas pipeline with a diameter of 50 mm and a length of 2 km. stretches for a week maximum.

              You don't even know what you are talking about. How will you maintain the pressure in this pipe? At high costs, and in winter, ... what is a "loopback" of consumers, have you heard? How much does a kilometer of pipeline cost? To a lonely building of 10 thousand square meters? Which in winter will need a gas boiler house for about 10 thousand kW and a gas consumption of 100 thousand cubic meters per month ...
              And next to the Novovoronezh NPP, 40 km. With one of the cheapest electricity rates ...
            3. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 4 July 2020 21: 31
              +1
              I understand what I'm talking about. Compare the tariffs for gas, and for "The cheapest electricity".
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 3 July 2020 17: 22
    +6
    Do not you understand? We need a hospital right now. Not in six months, not in a year or two. Now. Otherwise, the sick person will have nowhere to even put. The difference in price pays for the price of heating. Light. In general, frame houses are almost the warmest, while new.
  • barium
    barium 4 July 2020 04: 56
    0
    so our population will pay with wood, and the Chinese with green! feel the difference !!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 3 July 2020 13: 36
    +4
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Gas lines can be brought quickly, and an autonomous boiler room will provide hot water and heating.

    Vague doubts torment ....
    The "Multifunctional Center" was also built for patients with disabilities. That is, powerful ventilation systems are needed.
    The backfill question: would classic water radiators not be useless in this case?
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 13: 55
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      The backfill question: would classic water radiators not be useless in this case?

      Will not. The number of sections of radiators is calculated by watts based on the area, thickness and material of the walls, the area of ​​the glazing. And the temperature of the coolant depends on the outdoor temperature. There is a table in SNIP, if interested.
      And although I believe that Roman slightly exaggerated, it was simply necessary to provide water heating. Heating systems are now installed very quickly, and not very expensive.
      If for some reason they turn off the light? Those who drown with electricity have repeatedly encountered this problem. A modular building with electric convectors will line up in a matter of hours. There are no warm floors capable of keeping warm for a day. A gas boiler and a small electric generator for circulation pumps would eliminate this risk. hi
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 3 July 2020 14: 21
        +4
        all hospitals are always equipped with autonomous life support systems a priori.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 14: 30
          +1
          200 beds = 2000 sq. m minimum. Plus administrative facilities.
          And on this basis, you, constantly repeating about the economic inexpediency of drawing a penny pipe, are you talking to me about an expensive diesel generator? belay
          Do you have a fact of its presence there? If so, then these designers have no price, in Kolyma!
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 3 July 2020 14: 33
            +3
            it cannot but be there in principle. cessation of power supply is the death of all who, for example, on mechanical ventilation, etc.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 15: 15
              -2
              Do you understand the difference between a 15 kW standby generator and the same, but 250 kW?
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 3 July 2020 15: 32
                +2
                and should? all I told you is that all hospitals are provided with autonomous systems initially. the economic feasibility of drawing a penny, as you say, a pipe (which is really not a penny.) to the building that is likely to be removed after the pandemic, I do not see the word at all.
          2. nov_tech.vrn
            nov_tech.vrn 3 July 2020 21: 46
            +1
            Familiar with the basics of energy, they know that power supply from two independent TPs means 100% redundancy. This is not counting the fact that there is an 8th city ambulance hospital where there are sources of guaranteed supplies. It is now redeveloped into a carpet and overcrowded.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 22: 05
              -2
              AND? Immediately there is the economic feasibility of heating with electricity?
              1. nov_tech.vrn
                nov_tech.vrn 3 July 2020 22: 19
                +1
                two hundred infected are added every day, and so far there are much less cured, this hospital is needed now, and with heating, if the issue is resolved in winter, the "sandwich" by the way keeps the heat well
              2. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 22: 31
                +1
                The sandwich dries up just as quickly. Gas economically "rules". Fact. USHP + warm floor + individual boiler room. And a recuperator (Lopatov's exciting topic of ventilation). Fast, cheap and cheerful.
                I do not want to discuss coronobiosa; the disease really is, but it was inflated many times more. Look who benefits.
              3. nov_tech.vrn
                nov_tech.vrn 3 July 2020 22: 38
                0
                and I have to go to the 8th city hospital, sometimes
              4. Mountain shooter
                Mountain shooter 4 July 2020 21: 24
                +1
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                I do not want to discuss coronobiosa; the disease really is, but it was inflated many times more. Look who benefits.

                You are simply not up to date. Stop breeding demagoguery ... In Voronezh, the average winter temperature is minus 5 degrees.
                https://world-weather.ru/archive/russia/voronezh/winter/
              5. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 4 July 2020 21: 37
                -1
                Yes, yes, I already realized that I am not in the know, not in the subject, nor where, and nowhere. lol
                On the topic of profitability, reliability and speed of installation of heating have something to say?
              6. Mountain shooter
                Mountain shooter 4 July 2020 21: 48
                +1
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                On the topic of profitability, reliability and speed of installation of heating, there is something to say

                Mount the water? Yes, it is mounted in a moment ... how will you "warm" it? And here - he installed the substation (it is still needed) and powered up. And a backup diesel generator. And not 15 kW, but 500 kilowatts. In short, all this is idle chatter. Not seeing the project ... But what about the climate in Voronezh ... a sample of 10 years, I posted.
              7. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 4 July 2020 21: 52
                0
                Quote: Mountain Shooter
                how will you "warm" it?

                Gas boiler, electric in reserve. Typical boiler room. What is the problem, and what is the chatter? Heating according to this scheme is mounted from private buildings to large shopping centers.
                P.S. Fu, what a kak - I thought you were above the cons in the dialogs. Well, if it’s easier for you, go ahead, and with the song! good
              8. Mountain shooter
                Mountain shooter 4 July 2020 22: 17
                -1
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Gas boiler, electric in reserve

                Is there a gas main there? Or is it necessary to pull it there? Outskirts, 8 emergency hospital ...
  • doubovitski
    doubovitski 5 July 2020 18: 35
    +1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    AND? Immediately there is the economic feasibility of heating with electricity?

    The OPPORTUNITY for treating patients immediately appears. Not in the distant bright future, but already TOMORROW. Are you really such a fool that you do not understand why you are going to such a thing?
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 6 July 2020 07: 53
    0
    For especially gifted NEVOLVANOV- installation of water heating is carried out at the same time. Gas can also be supplied in a month.
  • doubovitski
    doubovitski 6 July 2020 18: 02
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    For especially gifted NEVOLVANOV- installation of water heating is carried out at the same time. Gas can also be supplied in a month.

    Are you going to heat the near-bed space with gas burners? Of course it is possible. There are such portable burners and 3-5 liter gas cylinders. Electric irons are mounted in minutes. And removed, if necessary, close the compartment as unnecessary. Sicks, even such infections, are not placed in the field where you need to drag an electrician for months. A cable line, so as not to mess with poles, is laid per day.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 6 July 2020 21: 15
    +1
    Quote: doubovitski
    Are you going to heat the near-bed space with gas burners?

    It seems that the most gifted did not hear about backup electric boilers embedded in the heating network ....
    And tie up rude and poke - NORMAL people do not communicate with strangers.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 3 July 2020 14: 22
    +2
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Will not. The number of sections of radiators is calculated by watts based on the area, thickness and material of the walls, the area of ​​the glazing.

    That is, as they will be. Fact.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 14: 33
      0
      Do not be strange, Shovels. Fact is a theory confirmed by evidence. And what you say is just your speculation. Heat supply and communications are my job. And I know what I'm talking about.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 3 July 2020 14: 41
        +2
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Do not be strange, Shovels. Fact is a theory confirmed by evidence.

        8))))
        This is a high school level.
        If you infuse 80 cubic meters of air per hour for each patient into the room from the outside, this cannot but affect the efficiency of heating the room with radiators
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 15: 11
          -1
          Do you know what a recuperator is?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 4 July 2020 16: 58
            +1
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Do you know what a recuperator is?

            I know very well.
            And most importantly, this is not a water radiator.
            The bottom line is that there is a huge difference between the heating of the living room and the heating of the chambers for tufts or tuberculosis.
            Because of this very ventilation.

            Here, for example, the Penza cardiocenter. Pay attention to the ventilation and climate control systems located on the roof.

            But there are not as stringent requirements for air, as in infectious
          2. Mountain shooter
            Mountain shooter 4 July 2020 21: 25
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Do you know what a recuperator is?

            Only need to write a recuperator ...
          3. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 4 July 2020 21: 41
            -1
            AND? Does this somehow affect the principle of operation of the recuperator? Or justifies the completely illiterate answers of Lopatov, who confuses the soft with the warm?
          4. Lopatov
            Lopatov 6 July 2020 13: 04
            +2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Or justifies the completely illiterate answers of Lopatov

            It is illiterate to consider that the recuperator has nothing to do with water radiators?
            It is illiterate to consider that ventilation strongly affects the effectiveness of the mentioned water radiators?
            It is illiterate to believe that modern climate systems for medical facilities can do without this ingenious invention of a century ago? And not just they can, but they manage ...
          5. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 6 July 2020 13: 11
            +1
            You are now again about warm. Initially, you said that water heating can not cope with a lot of cold air from the ventilation. The problem is solved absolutely easily with the help of antediluvian recuperator, where the exhaust air heats the air inlet.
            What is the argument next? request
            Water heating drives.
          6. Lopatov
            Lopatov 6 July 2020 13: 18
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Initially, you said that water heating will not cope with a large amount of air from the ventilation. The problem is solved absolutely easily with the help of antediluvian recuperator

            Do you really think that the recuperator completely gives off heat to the incoming air ???
            He gives up part of the heat. That is, the problem is not solved. And water radiators heat the street.

            In turn, heating the air supplied to the chamber is clearly more efficient. In winter, heating; in summer, cooling.
          7. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 6 July 2020 15: 06
            0
            Lord, Lopatov, you are again to extremes. The heat exchanger has heat losses, but small. At the extreme, there are recuperators with additional WATER heating of the intake.
            Air heating is relevant only in vestibules, where rapid displacement of cold air is required.
          8. Lopatov
            Lopatov 6 July 2020 17: 37
            +1
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            The heat exchanger has heat losses

            There is. And the less loss, the more powerful ventilation system is needed. So that....

            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Air heating is relevant only in vestibules, where rapid displacement of cold air is required.

            Bingo!!!!
            And in the wards. where rapid displacement of contaminated air is necessary.
  • doubovitski
    doubovitski 5 July 2020 18: 22
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Do not be strange, Shovels. Fact is a theory confirmed by evidence.

    8))))
    This is a high school level.
    If you infuse 80 cubic meters of air per hour for each patient into the room from the outside, this cannot but affect the efficiency of heating the room with radiators

    So you have not overcome this. Ingvar is right. What is needed is not beautifully dreamy, but operating with numbers.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 July 2020 13: 09
      0
      Quote: doubovitski
      So you have not overcome this. Ingvar is right.

      Yeah ..
      Write a petition that fans are a great deception.
      laughing laughing laughing
      Oh, damn it, where do you come from ...
  • doubovitski
    doubovitski 5 July 2020 18: 20
    0
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Gas lines can be brought quickly, and an autonomous boiler room will provide hot water and heating.

    Vague doubts torment ....
    The "Multifunctional Center" was also built for patients with disabilities. That is, powerful ventilation systems are needed.
    The backfill question: would classic water radiators not be useless in this case?

    Have you ever studied somewhere? What do you compare pictures? Compare the thermal conductivity of the walls and the performance of the heating system. You can not? Then what the hell, you ask?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 July 2020 13: 07
      +2
      Quote: doubovitski
      Have you ever studied somewhere?

      Конечно.
      And you?
      Quote: doubovitski
      What do you compare pictures? Compare the thermal conductivity of the walls and the performance of the heating system.

      From the pictures? How does the "familiar power engineer" to whom the author of the article refers?
      Sorry, I don’t know how to lie ...
      1. doubovitski
        doubovitski 6 July 2020 18: 04
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Quote: doubovitski
        Have you ever studied somewhere?

        Конечно.
        And you?
        Quote: doubovitski
        What do you compare pictures? Compare the thermal conductivity of the walls and the performance of the heating system.

        From the pictures? How does the "familiar power engineer" to whom the author of the article refers?
        Sorry, I don’t know how to lie ...

        So do not take an example from an ignoramus-journalist. Operate with numbers, not pictures, and your impression of looking at them.
  • Days
    Days 3 July 2020 18: 36
    +3
    Because thermal power plants, which in Russia generate 70% of all electricity, operate almost entirely on natural gas. And to deliver by wire the electricity generated by the turbine from burning gas is more profitable than building gas pipelines. And incomparably safer.

    And Putin, as always, was framed by the boyars, aha-aha.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 22: 13
      0
      Are you familiar with the concept of the term efficiency? No campaign. Otherwise, electricity would not be more expensive than gas.
      1. doubovitski
        doubovitski 6 July 2020 18: 11
        0
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Are you familiar with the concept of the term efficiency? No campaign. Otherwise, electricity would not be more expensive than gas.

        Talking about the cost of firewood in the forest is just as stupid. how to talk about the costs of something, in isolation from transportation. If you don’t know a damn thing about the cost of developing something somewhere, about pricing policy, about the dependence of suppliers on customers and vice versa, talking about prices is a complete blockhead. The cost of a kilowatt hour of electricity in the Krasnoyarsk Territory = 18 kopecks.
  • doubovitski
    doubovitski 5 July 2020 18: 05
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Electricity is more practical, but at a price almost the same. Fuel oil is almost never used now, and serves only as reserve fuel.
    The question is different, why in a country that has the largest reserves and gas production in the world, they heat it with electricity? Gas lines can be brought quickly, and an autonomous boiler room will provide hot water and heating.
    The problem is relevant for the whole country, where% of gasification is determined by the number of settlements, rather than households.
    A personal example is the Mezhdurechensk urban settlement that has been officially gasified, and in fact more than half of the village has heard tales of gas for more than 10 years.
    And Putin, as always, isn’t in the know, these are boyars intrigues! wassat

    You make a mistake in your reasoning. You are trying to compare COSTS .. However, we do not know the cost of extraction of this or that fuel, nor transport and other overhead costs, nor the level of profitability, nor the relationship of the producer with the authorities. price managers. That is, absolutely nothing. For demonstration I will show you one drawing.

    I had information for a long time, I don’t know how true the cost price of a kilowatt hour of electric energy at the hydropower stations of the Krasnoyarsk Territory is 18 kopecks. That wound. for what purpose and in whose favor? Operate with concepts that are not dependent on a person - physical constants. Calories, energy intensity, power, and a system for converting one physical unit to another. Make comparisons here. Consider the number of conversions from one type of energy to another. THERE are lost any kind of energy.
  • doubovitski
    doubovitski 5 July 2020 18: 29
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Electricity is more practical, but at a price almost the same. Fuel oil is almost never used now, and serves only as reserve fuel.
    The question is different, why in a country that has the largest reserves and gas production in the world, they heat it with electricity? Gas lines can be brought quickly, and an autonomous boiler room will provide hot water and heating.
    The problem is relevant for the whole country, where% of gasification is determined by the number of settlements, rather than households.
    A personal example is the Mezhdurechensk urban settlement that has been officially gasified, and in fact more than half of the village has heard tales of gas for more than 10 years.
    And Putin, as always, isn’t in the know, these are boyars intrigues! wassat

    Because to heat with gas is still a risk of explosions, and in the conditions of small gas boiler houses or house boilers, the risk multiplies many times. These are gas mains. This is a gas protective equipment. And, it’s all the same, water pipes. Which rust, and immediately on both sides. This is a return pipe, which the heat consumer does not need, but doubles the mass and price. Electric heating is automated, thermostatically controlled not only in residential areas, but in each room of the apartment separately. It is safer. It is less metal intensive. It is much more maintainable.
  • Jager
    Jager 9 July 2020 09: 39
    0
    there is a nuclear power plant nearby, electricity is the sea)
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 9 July 2020 10: 18
      0
      Yes, even through the fence, the price of electricity is the same. I judge the price and reliability of heating. hi
  • nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 3 July 2020 21: 32
    +1
    Actually, this is the city outskirts and through the fence there is a multi-story building of one of the city ambulance hospitals, so that there is no problem to conduct the heating main, it is good that the city newspaper raised this issue.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 4 July 2020 21: 29
      0
      Quote: nov_tech.vrn
      that the heating main is not a problem

      Are there enough calories in this track? This is a dead end branch. Designed for this hospital. And still load it ...
  • adler87
    adler87 3 July 2020 10: 37
    +5
    Why raise for the population? And for what? The cost of electricity is determined. Take and pay
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 July 2020 22: 16
      0
      Quote: adler87
      Take and pay

      Not certainly in that way. You cannot use the power more than what is stated in the contract. And it is very problematic to increase power.
      1. adler87
        adler87 4 July 2020 08: 13
        0
        Once again, where does it cost to raise for the population. I don’t see the connection. And to increase power, where it is problematic, where not. I think if they are building a hospital, I don’t see big problems, and there the administrative resource will help.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 4 July 2020 08: 57
          +1
          Quote: adler87
          Once again, where does it cost to raise for the population. I do not see the connection

          But did I focus on raising tariffs for the population? belay
      2. doubovitski
        doubovitski 5 July 2020 18: 54
        +1
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Quote: adler87
        Take and pay

        Not certainly in that way. You cannot use the power more than what is stated in the contract. And it is very problematic to increase power.

        Somehow you are selective about allowed capacities. For electricity, this is a dead end, you can’t connect what the ORDERED to build, and the President himself, but for gas heating is no longer? Can you connect anything to the pipe, and as much as you like? I believed that the transformer should be installed one more time, if it’s small, next to it and in a canopy for the needs of the hospital, connecting it to the high-voltage line, which, by law, should be TWO, faster than cutting and changing the pipe to more powerful. With mileage not known to us.
  • NEXUS
    NEXUS 3 July 2020 10: 40
    +7
    Quote: Svarog
    Well, in general, it would be possible to install a gas power station ..

    I will tell you, following the example of Moldova, how this is done. In the periphery, there has been no central heating for a long time, and therefore everyone has either boilers, or stoves (if a private house), or an apok. So, in 9 floors, new, so as not to bother with each boiler, they make an extension to the building, with a mini boiler room, where there is a powerful boiler, which heats the entire building. And the temperature is decent in winter in apartments, - + 25- + 27 degrees.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 4 July 2020 01: 15
      +1
      Quote: NEXUS
      And the temperature is decent in winter in apartments, - + 25- + 27 degrees.

      I have been living in the same house for 22 years, the temperature was not above plus 17. But it was somehow minus two .... For the New Year ...
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 5 July 2020 00: 10
        0
        In our country, on the contrary, from autumn to spring they begin to spy so that we open the windows. Drafts walk, but you can only pick them up in winter, and even then not always, winters are now warm. Otherwise a sauna.
  • Alexander I
    Alexander I 3 July 2020 11: 14
    +2
    Faced with gas stations, I can say this THING. Electricity is cheaper, heat and hot water are in full swing, everything is clean and culturally around. But there is a minus, in the summer there are difficulties with cooling since premises need not be heated.
  • carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 3 July 2020 12: 21
    +4
    we have whole villages on this heating. and not in Voronezh but in Khabarovsk. townhouses cottages at home. cheaper than heating, even if you do not take into account the fact that the sidebar for heating itself is an extremely costly event. this is still an old system, there are those that are much more economical than any other type of heating.
  • builder
    builder 10 July 2020 12: 04
    0
    The hospital was built according to a standard project, which is tied to a specific place, taking into account climate, geology, etc. The possibility of connecting heat, energy, gas supply to local sources is also taken into account. If there are no gas or heating networks nearby, you have to heat with electricity, also generated by nuclear power plants. Also, sandwich panels of various thicknesses, from 50 to 250 mm, are used in construction. which is taken into account by the heat engineering calculation. If 100 mm is enough in the south, then in Voronezh 250 mm for the eyes and these radiators will be enough to maintain a normal temperature inside. If you don’t understand there is nothing to be clever in construction, Mr. Skomorokhov. If only to cry out how bad everything is, everyone is stealing, all are fools.
    1. builder
      builder 10 July 2020 12: 15
      0
      In addition. Radiators on the external walls during the design are considered as heating on-site and is calculated on the temperature inside the room + 10-12 degrees. To the temperature required by the norms, heating is carried out through the supply ventilation system by heating the supply air.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 3 July 2020 11: 34
    +2
    Quote: Lesovik
    The main thing is not to forget to "return". It will be very interesting to see the result.

    It will be very interesting to read the continuation of the article about this hospital near Voronezh, at least immediately after the New Year and Christmas holidays.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Terenin
    Terenin 3 July 2020 20: 02
    +3
    Potemkinskaya hospital as a symbol of the future of Russia ... Author:
    Roman Skomorokhov

    You can not read further No. . Dear Roman, all publications with one
    moral fables
    "Today the Motherland is dying especially hard!" crying
    1. doubovitski
      doubovitski 5 July 2020 18: 59
      +1
      Quote: Terenin
      Potemkinskaya hospital as a symbol of the future of Russia ... Author:
      Roman Skomorokhov

      You can not read further No. . Dear Roman, all publications with one
      moral fables
      "Today the Motherland is dying especially hard!" crying

      If this fruit does not get food in Russia, then it is more convenient, of course, to eat there, leaving your ass here.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 4 July 2020 21: 05
    +1
    Quote: Lesovik
    The main thing is not to forget to "return". It will be very interesting to see the result

    I talked with a friend in the United States. And they don’t have water heating in their houses ... Ohio, and winter is winter!
    I respect Roman, but ... let's not worry about winter heating in SUMMER. It's better to think about conditioning. Voronezh is VERY hot in summer. And minus thirty in Voronezh has not been for a long time. And the winds for a one-storey building are not as terrible as for multi-storey "sailboats" ... Especially if the buildings are in the forest. Well, or discuss with trees. A project is a project ... Builders are working on a PROJECT ... These buildings have been erected in many places recently, about 20, I think. And it seems in the northern (real) places too.
  • cdrt
    cdrt 6 July 2020 18: 39
    +1
    Well this is a magazine magazine. After a year, he will not remember
  • mag nit
    mag nit 3 July 2020 10: 14
    -18 qualifying.
    Lies and window dressing are Putin's stability.
    1. avg
      avg 3 July 2020 10: 54
      17
      Quote: mag nit
      Lies and window dressing are Putin's stability.

      You will somehow decide whether to write on the case or work as a propagandist. First, stability is not bad at all. Secondly, during the construction of the hospital there was no stability and now there is no, but there is a pandemic. Moreover, in the USA and in China there is a second wave, maybe it is also here. In such a situation, "not to fat", much is decided by the time factor. For example, the Chinese built a hospital, the peak passed and they wanted to dismantle it, but they suspended it. In our case, we need to survive at least one winter and evaluate the technological solution. If you are not satisfied, then a small and cheap gas boiler room (in various versions used at various sports complexes) will completely solve this problem.
      1. mag nit
        mag nit 3 July 2020 11: 02
        -17 qualifying.
        In your case, these are eternal "modernizations". Has gas been supplied to the boiler room, or to the third wave?
        1. avg
          avg 3 July 2020 11: 05
          +9
          I understand that reading carefully is more difficult than shouting slogans, but still make an effort, and some of the questions will immediately disappear.
      2. Hagen
        Hagen 3 July 2020 11: 30
        12
        Quote: avg
        You somehow decide

        What for? There is no demand for a bucket of dirt on the President’s shoes. You can carry nonsense about stupid builders, Potemkin, and more. It's like the election. No matter how hard they tried, they passed, and very successfully. The same here, the main thing is to cheat, without creating a damn yourself .... In any city there is a madman, and we, in any company of normal citizens of our country, have our own traitor ... Nature does not tolerate emptiness. Whatever and by whomever something is built, it all starts with determining the main technical and economic indicators of the upcoming facility. Moreover, the hospital is being built, in any case, taking into account, among other things, the microclimate of the interior, normalized by SanPiNami. I don’t think it’s worth worrying.
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 3 July 2020 12: 04
      +4
      window dressing does not depend on GDP, from a janitor to a governor with ministers.
      MANY DO NOT RECOGNIZE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, FIRST "I ​​WANT SO SO". THEN "GUILTY FOR ALL GDP"
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent 3 July 2020 10: 15
    16
    if you look at the map, then the same Derbent for a thousand and a few kilometers south of Voronezh. And, it is quite possible that there you can easily get by in the winter with heaters and not freeze. But in Voronezh, it certainly won’t work out.

    I do not know No. .

    At one of the DPR polygons, the living quarters of the barracks (each designed for a company), erected from used "szndvich-panels" (dismantled Yulka's ATB supermarkets), were heated with such heaters (3 pieces for the whole room) good .

    And we, too, are not "not Derbent" at all, taking into account the icy wind from the Salsk steppes ...

    Maybe first you need to winter the winter before yelling: "Everything is gone", "Help!" ?

    But, obviously, the author cannot do this; HYIP, right now, and right here ...
    1. mag nit
      mag nit 3 July 2020 10: 19
      -15 qualifying.
      And what does Ukraine have to do with it?
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 3 July 2020 10: 23
        12
        Quote: mag nit
        And what does Ukraine have to do with it?

        You're right,okrajna, nothing to do with it yes .

        Indeed, firstly, the DPR is not Ukraine, and secondly, it is not about Ukraine or the DPR, but about the climate (nothing softer and warmer than in Voronezh) and the technology of building buildings (their insulation).

        Claims all dried up, or what else can you think of?
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 10: 34
      -4
      Quote: Insurgent
      At one of the DPR polygons, the living quarters of the barracks (each designed for a company), erected from used "szndvich-panels" (dismantled Yulka's ATB supermarkets), were heated with such heaters (3 pieces for the whole room)

      Are we in conditions like in the DPR? It’s cheaper to heat water heating, here the author is absolutely right.
      Quote: Insurgent
      Maybe at first you need to winter out over the winter, before yelling: "Everything is lost", "Help!" ?

      Sometimes you don't have to break your leg to learn how to walk on crutches. But seriously, in the north the trailers were heated with electricity, but their execution is exactly the north. Nobody knows what kind of performance there is, for some reason it seems to me that it is "cheaper".
      Quote: Insurgent
      But, obviously, the author cannot do this, we need a hype, right now, and right here ...

      You look at the number of publications of this author, and then answer your own question.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 3 July 2020 10: 39
        0
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Nobody knows what kind of performance there is, for some reason it seems to me that it is "cheaper".

        This claim - "nobody knows"and the following from this"it seems", address the author of the article, and ask why he did not find out thoroughly, according to which SNIP and in what version the buildings were erected?

        Was in a hurry to "dump" the material while it was still "hot" after the vote?
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 10: 47
          -3
          Quote: Insurgent
          why didn’t he find out in detail by which SNIP and in what design the buildings were erected?

          Who will tell him this? Try for the sake of interest, to find out from the administration the thickness of the asphalt pavement, when repairing the road, then write off what you were told.
          Quote: Insurgent
          Was in a hurry to "dump" the material while it was still "hot" after the vote?

          His articles always cause a lot of controversy, regardless of the vote.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 3 July 2020 10: 54
            +3
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            Who will tell him this? Try for the sake of interest, to find out from the administration the thickness of the asphalt pavement, when repairing the road, then write off what you were told.

            And the author that "desk journalist"? What's stopping him?"come down to the sinful earth"and just talk to simple construction workers,"for a life", confidentially? In the end, to see for yourself. Isn't it in" Briony "?

            I would learn much more than I could describe yes .
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 11: 06
              -5
              Quote: Insurgent
              And what about the author, a "cabinet journalist"? What prevents him from "going down to the sinful earth" and just talking with simple hard workers-builders, "for life", confidentially? In the end, see for yourself. After all, not in "Briony", is it?

              I would learn much more than I could describe

              And then they would say "from the series one grandmother said."
              1. Insurgent
                Insurgent 3 July 2020 11: 11
                +2
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                And then they would say "from the series one grandmother said."

                What now, reading guesses in the article, prevents someone from saying / thinking / about this?
                1. Roman123567
                  Roman123567 3 July 2020 12: 25
                  -5
                  About that and the speech that you will not please anything .. that do not write - anyway, just say the same ..
                  1. St Petrov
                    St Petrov 3 July 2020 13: 05
                    0
                    Roman, why are you so offended by the authorities of the Russian Federation?
                    Are you not Ukrainian?

                    1. aleksejkabanets
                      aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 13: 38
                      -1
                      Quote: s-t Petrov
                      Roman, why are you so offended by the authorities of the Russian Federation?
                      Are you not Ukrainian?

                      Dear s-t Petrov, unfortunately I do not know your name, the word "offended" should not be used, this is how you do it. Over the past 30 years, the meaning of this word has changed somewhat, see its modern synonyms. In addition, please explain to me why a person who disagrees with your opinion automatically becomes either a Ukrainian, or some kind of "agent of the State Department", or a "fifth column"? Why did the Ukrainians displease you? I do not mean the state of Ukraine. Vasilevsky is a Polish surname, Rybalko is a Ukrainian one, do you have anything against them? Many are dissatisfied with these or those actions of the authorities of the Russian Federation, will you record all of them as Ukrainians or agents of the State Department? Yes, and also, adults, self-respecting people, turn to their opponents for you.
                      1. St Petrov
                        St Petrov 3 July 2020 13: 44
                        -1
                        what reason does a person disagree with your opinion

                        I'm not talking about my opinion. I'm talking about him here.
                        automatically becomes either Ukrainian, or some kind of "agent of the State Department", or "fifth column"

                        and what else to call the warm local opposition? Wet dreamers?
                        What did the Ukrainians not please you?

                        I have a claim to them.
                        Many are dissatisfied with these or those actions of the authorities of the Russian Federation. Will you record all of them in the Ukrainians or State Department agents?

                        let's talk about the novel, I asked him my question. When I have a question for your post, I will write it to you.
                        the word "offended" should not be used, this is how you do it

                        I thought it necessary to write so. Want to edit my posts ?.
                      2. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 14: 40
                        -2
                        Quote: s-t Petrov
                        I'm not talking about my opinion. I'm talking about him here.

                        Read your comments, and you will probably understand that "his letters here" are just an episode.

                        Quote: s-t Petrov
                        What did the Ukrainians not please you?

                        I have a claim to them.

                        What complaints can you have about one or another people?
                        Do you have any complaints about Russians?
                        Quote: s-t Petrov
                        automatically becomes either Ukrainian, or some kind of "agent of the State Department", or "fifth column"

                        and what else to call the warm local opposition? Wet dreamers?

                        Do you think, or is it too difficult for you? And yet why, anyone who disagrees with you becomes either a Ukrainian, or some kind of "agent of the State Department", or a "fifth column"? Or maybe it's you, some Potanin "sent Cossack"?

                        Quote: s-t Petrov
                        Many are dissatisfied with these or those actions of the authorities of the Russian Federation. Will you record all of them in the Ukrainians or State Department agents?

                        let's talk about the novel, I asked him my question. When I have a question for your post, I will write it to you.

                        That is, it is then that you will bless me, and answer my question? And what is stopping this hour?

                        Quote: s-t Petrov
                        the word "offended" should not be used, this is how you do it

                        I thought it necessary to write so. Want to edit my posts ?.

                        No, your dirt, you somehow edit yourself.
                    2. Ilya Nikitich
                      Ilya Nikitich 3 July 2020 17: 17
                      -2
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      the word "offended" should not be used, this is how you do it. Over the past 30 years, the meaning of this word has changed somewhat, see its modern synonyms.

                      But what if St. Petrov used the word "offended" in its original meaning? What did you think? After all, everyone thinks to the extent of his depravity.
                      Disagreeing with the opinion is one thing, but throwing it on a fan is ...
                      Z.Y. And Vasilevsky, Rokosovsky and even more so Rybalko were RUSSIAN.
                    3. Essex62
                      Essex62 5 July 2020 00: 22
                      0
                      Excuse me, how is it? Pole, Ukrainian ... Did you want to write Soviet?
                    4. aleksejkabanets
                      aleksejkabanets 6 July 2020 15: 00
                      -1
                      Quote: Essex62
                      Excuse me, how is it? Pole, Ukrainian ... Did you want to write Soviet?

                      I understand that they were Soviet people both in spirit and in nationality, but judging by the names in the Rokosovsky family, there were most likely Poles, and Ukrainians in the Rybalko family. I just wanted to say that any people cannot be called bad or good, evil or good, but only individual representatives of this people.
          2. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 3 July 2020 13: 48
            -3
            Quote: Insurgent
            What now, reading guesses in the article, prevents someone from saying / thinking / about this?

            I was in a hurry and could not write more clearly, sorry. If it was building a municipal defense, with whom should he talk? Come and interview the soldiers, without the permission of the commander of the unit, then write whether it worked. In my opinion, the author expresses his fears, based on the materials that he has. For example, I also think that a hospital made of sandwich panels with electric heating, as a long-term construction is not the best option.
  • Woodman
    Woodman 3 July 2020 10: 47
    +6
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    You look at the number of publications by this author

    The main thing is not quantity, the main quality ... But here it is "taste and color" ...
    1. Roman123567
      Roman123567 3 July 2020 12: 26
      -4
      Well, the quality of Roman’s articles, IMHO, is the best in VO .. It's nice to always read !!
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 3 July 2020 12: 40
        +5
        Quote: Roman123567
        Well, the quality of Roman's articles, IMHO, are the best in

        At first I thought it was such a joke, but then I remembered
        Quote: Lesovik
        "taste and color" ...

        1. St Petrov
          St Petrov 3 July 2020 13: 48
          +1
          such characters need to read comments. Everything will become clear right away
          This is something between a script and a Gozman. I asked him the reason for the offense above, let's see what answers
          1. Woodman
            Woodman 3 July 2020 13: 49
            +3
            Quote: s-t Petrov
            Immediately about Roman, everything will become clear)

            Yes, I already remember the position of Roman. Communicated, you know, in the vast expanse of the world) Today he is extremely polite, however hi
            1. St Petrov
              St Petrov 3 July 2020 13: 51
              0
              this is a cartridge in the clip of a new Vlasov (though among clowns this still needs to be looked for). The character dreams of breaking the political system, is ready to set fire to the Kremlin and hang the supreme, removing officers and soldiers who fulfill their oath

              Previously, here they sat with skulls and knew their place.
              1. Essex62
                Essex62 5 July 2020 00: 48
                -1
                Sorry, but the heirs of the white movement, under whose banner Vlasov spoke, are now in power. Why are you always putting everything upside down? Critical of the actions of the authorities, in your Russophobia and worship of the enemy? And why such aggression in your posts. Adrenaline rushing? Hatred of people nibbles? Ukrainians, along with all Soviet people defeated Nazism. And now in Ukraine there are many disagreeing with the authorities of Bandera. Yes they are silent, but they tolerate. They need help, and our bourgeois government, on a small step forward two back. And stomp. There was a chance to return all of Ukraine, not just Crimea. Oru and sanctions, of course it would be to heaven, but to fight with us for b-d-whether it would be rear-wheel drive. But how are the kids in geyrops, how are financial interests? And many dream of breaking your bourgeois system. The soldiers took an oath to whom, money bags, that they consider themselves Russia?
  • rocket757
    rocket757 3 July 2020 10: 17
    +7
    Somehow I don’t want to discuss what and why was done hastily and NOT SO !!! There will be something to cling to there.
    But against the background of what happened and could happen .... in short, if they really deal with the problems of medicine, ALL IS SOLVED !!! And the problems of expensive heating, too, there are technologies that increase efficiency and reduce costs .... But this is only if the problems are solved COMPLETELY, according to clear PLANS.
    A boom is to see who has brains there and their hands are in place ... otherwise, there are a lot of empty / stupid expenses, even against the background of having to do this, because it was NECESSARY!
  • NIKN
    NIKN 3 July 2020 10: 17
    +6
    It's a pity though. And 250 million rubles, and the labor of military engineers, who plowed around the clock for two months.

    The feeling that the author regrets that they did not give 2.5 billion to cut. GOST generally provides for climatic performance, and not a secret project, if desired, they will show. The author did not cry, he took out the transcript, tighten up and you will see the project, what to expect for winter.
    And so the mini-boiler is not expensive, they put it on separate houses. And do not forget that such a structure is being built against the coronovirus, which will not wait, the whole point is fast, in order to save the population from the epidemic, to save lives.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 3 July 2020 10: 19
    10
    So, to clear my conscience, because I myself understand perfectly well that it is possible to heat with electricity, if ... If, as they say, this building, designed by the project for the southern regions, will not collide with our frosts. And frosts in our strip happen up to -30 degrees. And with excellent steppe winds.
    rare stupidity and complete lack of knowledge of the topic, you can drink electricity in ANY weather conditions, several factors are important, the network must correspond to the required power of the heating devices and good thermal insulation
  • Aleksandre
    Aleksandre 3 July 2020 10: 20
    +9
    Comrade Skomorokhov, somehow worthless Sevastopol, Yekaterinoslav, Kherson, Nikolaev and Simferopol to call villages. Oskomin was already filled with this common expression, launched by envious people to belittle the conquests of Russia in the 18th century.
  • igorra
    igorra 3 July 2020 10: 27
    +8
    The more I read Roman, the more he becomes an evil troll. The question arises - this is when Roman Putin stepped on his pet peeve that he was so sprayed with poison. Dear Roman, if you are so rooting for us, why don't you go into politics? There are a lot of us at VO, some7 respect you, others not really, but most will vote for you. I think so.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 3 July 2020 11: 00
      -9
      May I be in charge of Roman? Compare Putin's speeches at the beginning of 2014 and after the arrival of Burkhalter. Putin himself broke off and broke many.
  • BARKAS
    BARKAS 3 July 2020 10: 28
    11
    In fact, there’s nothing complicated in heating such rooms with electricity, there are all long-developed convectors, infrared heaters, and from underfloor heating this is quite enough for a comfortable stay and work. And if the technology is followed, then with energy efficiency, too, everything is fine.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 3 July 2020 12: 25
      +5
      Yes, there are already film systems like PLEN for a long time. The PLEN heating system consumes
      4-7 times less energy compared to electric and solid fuel boilers
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 3 July 2020 10: 38
    +7
    Something is not clear why the author is dissatisfied. We must somehow endure this coronovirus infection. You can build a temporary hut. The capital hospital will be only in a year or two. Yes, and such a makeshift, even taking into account the cost of electricity, will last for 20 years. Even letting gas heating down is a matter of small expenses and time, if necessary.
    And yes. Buildings are being built according to SNIPs.
  • AU Ivanov.
    AU Ivanov. 3 July 2020 10: 38
    12
    Electric heating of rooms is used even beyond the Arctic Circle. And no one, for some reason, does not freeze there, but in Voronezh, of course, it will freeze.
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 3 July 2020 11: 06
      +2
      This is a fight with Putin
  • lucul
    lucul 3 July 2020 10: 44
    12
    The governor wanted three (THREE years, Karl !!!) to build an infectious diseases hospital for 2,5 billion rubles. And he wanted to contribute 20% himself, and 80% should have been given according to his plan by Putin.

    Putin did not want to pay that much money, but called Shoigu, who said that there was a project for the construction of the corps in 2 months. And for 250 million rubles.

    Skomorokhov falls lower and lower .....
    In any construction (in our latitudes), when designing, the question immediately arises with an edge - what to focus on - a capital building with a little heating, or a lighter structure, with much greater energy costs.
    For those who don’t understand, I’m explaining on the fingers - you can build a monumental house, with brick walls 1,5 meters thick, with a minimum number of glasses (less heat loss). Its heating in winter will require a minimum amount of energy. Or build a glass house (made of glass and steel), where the windows are all over the wall, and the heating of which will take just an ocean of energy. These are two extremes that any designer is faced with. Usually try to look for a middle ground.
    In the case of the hospital, maximum construction speed was required, because by the winter, there might simply be nothing left of COVID-19, and if we erected the monumental building of the hospital, we would have been building it for 3 years, as the governor had expected. But COVID-19 will not wait 3 years ...
    Therefore, they built such a hospital.
    This is if you just turn on the brain, and not immediately pour dirt on the power.
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 3 July 2020 11: 14
      +6
      This is if you just turn on the brain, and not immediately pour dirt on the power.


      and this is his earnings? it works? Or articles is it all?
      Maybe nothing personal here, you have to work
      Praising Putin you won’t earn - and grants of 5 billion from overseas friends for such a move are enough for a wide coverage of such writers


      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 3 July 2020 12: 28
        +6
        This is called to get into topics in which you do not understand anything. extremely slippery slope. there will always be those in this dog eaten and smeared. but there is a group of comrades who scream in the choir will shout at it Putin that Putin. Pension blah blah blah. not the topic is important but loud screams.
  • Asad
    Asad 3 July 2020 10: 45
    +7
    No one knew how the epidemic would develop! Built, great! Patients will not lie in the corridor! I do not think that this is a complete replacement of the infection for the region.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 3 July 2020 10: 49
    +2
    It became even interesting! And what, the hot water system there is also not implemented by means of electric boilers?
  • To be or not to be
    To be or not to be 3 July 2020 10: 51
    +2
    According to the staff list, 60 doctors, 92 nurses and 20 nurses will work in the new medical center.
    "The medical center itself has 180 beds and 20 intensive care beds. Each box here is intended for patients with various infections ... At the moment, it is envisaged that patients with COVID-19 will be admitted here https://ria.ru/20200630 /1573688437.html
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 3 July 2020 11: 08
    +5
    In this case, these covid centers can be full-fledged only conditionally. Prefabricated hospitals are needed to treat patients with covid. As soon as the disease situation stabilizes and the main infectious diseases hospitals begin to cope on their own, these sandwich hospitals will be dismantled even faster than they were assembled. It didn’t seem to make much sense to bring an expensive capital heating system to the temporary “fire” hospital.
  • Humpty
    Humpty 3 July 2020 11: 20
    11
    The mine is 400 km from me, the heating is electric. June is not summer yet; the end of August is no longer summer. Colder than -52 temperatures were not recorded, but - 40 is not uncommon. Inside in winter is comfortable. This is in Wed Of Asia. This hospital does not seem to last forever. Sense in advance, before the winter to blame the customer for lack of competence?
    1. alone
      alone 3 July 2020 11: 39
      10
      Quote: Humpty
      The mine is 400 km from me, the heating is electric. June is not summer yet; the end of August is no longer summer. Colder than -52 temperatures were not recorded, but - 40 is not uncommon. Inside in winter is comfortable. This is in Wed Of Asia. This hospital does not seem to last forever. Sense in advance, before the winter to blame the customer for lack of competence?

      Each convector is designed for a certain square .. Well, to consider that the designer does not know this, is silly ..
      I completely agree with you .. only in winter can you evaluate the appropriateness.
  • vnord
    vnord 3 July 2020 11: 22
    +5
    In our city, winter temperatures are -40 gr, and in some floors 9 and 16 there is no central heating, there are convectors. It was with friends, it’s warm .. and their rent is less than with central heating ... Everything must be considered ..
  • parusnik
    parusnik 3 July 2020 11: 28
    -8
    Roman, again slander? smile Do not understand, but write ..... this is nano-technology from walls to heating! laughing
  • alone
    alone 3 July 2020 11: 35
    +7
    Centralized systems are not planned in modular buildings .. In essence, modular systems are the same as temporary ones. There are even autonomous type bathrooms.
  • Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 3 July 2020 11: 39
    13
    Potemkin - not Potemkin ... What difference does it make if people need urgent help here and now ??? Such headings are only to attract attention and not really understanding the essence of the issue.
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 3 July 2020 12: 09
      +1
      Potemkin - not Potemkin ... What difference does it make if ...


      ... Putin and government institutions must be blamed

      1. AU Ivanov.
        AU Ivanov. 3 July 2020 13: 12
        +1
        Then to bury yourself under the rubble?
        1. St Petrov
          St Petrov 3 July 2020 13: 19
          -1
          I don’t know why these clowns are trying to stagger the political system. Maybe they have it down?
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 3 July 2020 13: 25
            +1
            My grandmother was aunt very sharp on the tongue. About these, she said: A thin star is bad everywhere.
            (In the original, another word that rhymes well with the word "star")
    2. bober1982
      bober1982 3 July 2020 12: 21
      +9
      Quote: Tatar 174
      Potemkin - not Potemkin ...

      Quote: Tatar 174
      Such headings are only to attract attention and not really understanding the essence of the issue.

      The title to the article is very unsuccessful.
      No "Potemkin villages" existed, this is an evil myth of Russia's ill-wishers, and the very concept was introduced by the Saxon diplomat Helbig to viciously denigrate Russia. This is common knowledge.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 3 July 2020 12: 35
        +4
        No "Potemkin villages" existed, this is the evil myth of Russia's ill-wishers,

        It is similar to the "Stolypin wagon", which was re-equipped for the transportation of convicts ... ..BOLSHEVIKS. laughing
  • Nick
    Nick 3 July 2020 12: 09
    +7
    What is this article about? Nothing about. Roman Skomorokhov, a lover of chernukha, draws conclusions not from facts, but from his assumptions and conjectures. Meanwhile, in order to judge the possibility of heating the premises, one must at least know the coefficient of thermal conductivity of walls, ceilings, and floors. Know the average daily temperature in the coldest months, etc. etc.
    Not knowing all this, making conclusions about insufficient heating is ridiculous and stupid. According to rough estimates, heating of such a building will require a power of 1-1,3 MW. This is of course if frosts below -30 degrees stand for a week or two, which is unlikely in the Voronezh region. The average January temperature in Voronezh is -7,5 degrees Celsius.
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 3 July 2020 12: 10
      +6
      What is this article about? Nothing about

      oppositionists like it. this public haw such with the addition
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Roman123567
    Roman123567 3 July 2020 12: 21
    -9
    Right next to my parents’s house .. I lived there for almost 25 years ..
    It looks like a shopping arcade with stalls ....
    It is not clear to whom she gave up ..
  • Hagen
    Hagen 3 July 2020 12: 25
    +5
    In winter, we will return to this topic.

    What's easier is to go to the hospital and get to know the technical service. And there is no need to wait for any winter to predict the behavior of the object at typical winter temperatures. For such an article, I would not have paid a penny. Moreover, the local ...
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 3 July 2020 12: 36
    -3
    Quote: Svarog
    gouging or intent is not clear, but both harm the state and people ..


    In the old days, gouging, and even more so with the intent that caused harm to people, had a very specific name, enshrined in the Criminal Code of those years - Wrecking !!! and the punishment was appropriate ...
    What about today? Yes, in the peak case they will call negligence and ... threaten with a finger. May be.
  • Alexander X
    Alexander X 3 July 2020 12: 47
    +7
    Something the author of the article completely wrote. Already does not know what to criticize. Well, I would write about things that I understand ... Or is his goal to throw an unpleasantly smelling substance on a fan?
    If they had stretched a gas pipe to this hospital, then he probably wrote that people’s money wasted ...
    Modern sandwich panels have excellent heat-insulating ability and heating with electric heaters is enough for such structures.
    The task of providing the region with an infectious department for a period of mass COVID disease in the shortest possible time with minimal costs was excellent.
    I believe that the editorial board of the VO should more carefully analyze the materials provided by this author, so as not to discredit the VO itself. Well, it’s better to refuse the author to publish his articles as misleading readers ... IMHO ...
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 4 July 2020 15: 55
      0
      The problem is that this author is a very influential figure on the site and one of its moderators.)
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 3 July 2020 13: 00
    -2
    The governor and his comrades failed to heat the little hands. Shoigu prevented. Now hold on Kozhugetovich- will Potemkin. laughing
  • Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 3 July 2020 13: 29
    +3
    Quote: igorra
    The more I read Roman, the more he becomes an evil troll. The question arises - this is when Roman Putin stepped on his pet peeve that he was so sprayed with poison. Dear Roman, if you are so rooting for us, why don't you go into politics? There are a lot of us at VO, some7 respect you, others not really, but most will vote for you. I think so.


    Igor, it is unlikely that the "troll" Roman will answer you. Judging by the last week, he writes, it seems, for a lot of money on order. And the order - find fault with Putin as soon as you can, the Maidan is bigger !!! Whose order? Hmm ... Would he say? So, I suppose, he will stop "sprinkling poison" either when they stop paying, or when his support and support (everyone knows this brave attacking, tearfully tearful-patriotic Voshny hundred of marshals, generals and other senior ah-fitzers) will calm down and stop his rebel - to support the plant in scams. Judging by today's calm statements of their generals in the comments and the absence of many of them, the activation of NORMAL people, this is starting to happen.

    In politics, the novel is ALREADY. I got involved.

    And when everything calms down, we again enjoy reading his thoughts on the history of airplanes and ships. If he will not load them with politics.
  • Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 3 July 2020 14: 13
    +4
    Quote: Alexander X
    Something the author of the article completely wrote. Already does not know what to criticize. Well, I would write about things that I understand ... Or is his goal to throw an unpleasantly smelling substance on a fan?

    I believe that the editorial board of the VO should more carefully analyze the materials provided by this author, so as not to discredit the VO itself. Well, it’s better to refuse the author to publish his articles as misleading readers ... IMHO ...

    Dear Alexander! I think you got excited about Roman and the VO editorial board. Why do I think so? I - a normal Russian patriot without deviations to the left or to the right - was banned from publishing on VO under the pretext of "conspiracy theories." And the creations of the home-grown "political scientist" Roman, who writes "the truth", are not only published, but also placed in the "A-HA-LI-TI-KA" section! Do you think this is done WITHOUT editorial approval? Oh well...
  • tacet
    tacet 3 July 2020 14: 16
    0
    Do not worry - do not freeze. But there is one point - heating will cost during the winter period for this building of the lama three a month.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 3 July 2020 20: 06
      0
      Then it can be calculated when the costs of heating this temporary building and capital construction converge. I think that even a capital hospital during this time will become a wreck.
  • forester1971
    forester1971 3 July 2020 14: 29
    +5
    Mr. Skomorokhov writes articles on one big general topic entitled: "Everything that is done under the leadership or on behalf of President Putin is bad, flawed and will soon fall apart", etc.
    Recently there was a large article of a similar orientation about a military temple in Alabino.
    By the way, similar articles were written about the Crimean bridge - not Skomorokhov, but the direction of thoughts coincides.
  • kig
    kig 3 July 2020 14: 46
    +3
    The author himself admitted that no one saw the project. Therefore, the author does not know what kind of walls there is a foundation and a roof. Suddenly there is nanotechnology and super isolation. And therefore, I am afraid, the governor can attract the author for disseminating false information. Suddenly there are heating pads with unprecedented heat dissipation. Air conditioners are visible on the roof, suddenly they work for heating even at -30. In short, only experience can give an answer. Therefore, one must not forget to invite the author to continue the banquet.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 3 July 2020 14: 58
    +2
    Quote: c-Petrov
    Roman, why are you so offended by the authorities of the Russian Federation?
    Are you not Ukrainian?

    Companion Makarevich)))
  • Free wind
    Free wind 3 July 2020 15: 11
    0
    If sclerosis doesn’t fail me, by 10 squares the heating power is 1 kW approximately, with standard ceilings, it doesn’t matter which radiator is installed, electric, water, and inverter. Well, then we dance, 10000 squares. 1000 kW for heating approximately. Of course there is water in calories, here I am not local.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 3 July 2020 15: 12
    +1
    Quote: Insurgent
    Quote: mag nit
    And what does Ukraine have to do with it?

    You're right,okrajna, nothing to do with it yes .

    Bravo!!!)))
  • Tagan
    Tagan 3 July 2020 15: 48
    +1
    How it will work, we do not know. But the fan needs to be thrown right now (starting with the header).
    In general, the author disappointed. The topic of the shift of tectonic plates has not been disclosed, the scientific base has not been adjusted. Well, so that thoroughly, as with the Crimean bridge. And then: "I was talking with a familiar power engineer." Ugh...
  • Tagan
    Tagan 3 July 2020 16: 09
    0
    Quote: kig
    The author himself admitted that no one saw the project. Therefore, the author does not know what kind of walls there is a foundation and a roof. Suddenly there is nanotechnology and super isolation. And therefore, I am afraid, the governor can attract the author for disseminating false information. Suddenly there are heating pads with unprecedented heat dissipation. Air conditioners are visible on the roof, suddenly they work for heating even at -30. In short, only experience can give an answer. Therefore, one must not forget to invite the author to continue the banquet.

    Attract ?! How is it possible ?! This is not the harsh Chelyabinsk men. This is a delicate and vulnerable liberal soul.
  • gv2000
    gv2000 3 July 2020 16: 43
    +1
    Hmm ... in our Transbaikalia, the entire technical position was heated by electricity (kilowatts). Outside the window, it reached -50. There were no problems. A residential town - a boiler room on fuel oil. There were problems there. Fuel oil - from wheels (NZ ess-but was). In a neighboring town, the boiler room got up - several houses were unfrozen - a terrible picture.
    Somehow they put infrared ceiling heaters - he doubted at first. But everything is OK. Now in the suburbs of Moscow I warm up the cottage just like that. Only 600 W per 50 sq.m. - enough for heating (there is also a diesel and solid fuel boilers). So it's not so dark with electricity. Question price? Yes, everything is fine.
  • Ilya Nikitich
    Ilya Nikitich 3 July 2020 16: 52
    +2
    I have two questions for the author:
    1. Where is it near Voronezh?
    2. Has the author ever used these convectors?
    Personally, I, in Voronezh, have been heating the greenhouse with such a convector for 10 years already. I saw so many times such convectors in offices and even on a farm. Where it is not profitable to pull a heating system or gas pipeline, such convectors are a normal solution.
    Z.Y. And yes, 30 degrees of frost in Voronezh is certainly not perceived as in Siberia, because it happens one, two days a year, and even then not every ...
  • balabol
    balabol 3 July 2020 18: 05
    +2
    Very rarely I write comments, but could not resist in this case. The site is mainly attended by readers with technical education, people who are familiar with such concepts as TK, Tech project, calculation and justification. There wouldn’t be all these disputes if someone could have a look at the hospital project. The regulatory framework and the main parameters of the thermal calculation of the building are always indicated there. Requirements for thermal resistance of building envelopes and technical solutions to ensure the requirements of SNIPs. Typically, such buildings receive most of the heat through ventilation. Infectious departments have special requirements for air exchange and air purification. It is easier to warm centrally (in addition to clean, refresh, mixing with an external air intake) and serve. The presence of small converters is explained as follows. A downward flow of cold air flows down the window, since the window is colder than the walls. In order to prevent the formation of a layer of cold air above the floor, a counter-current flow of warm air is directed upstream under the window. This allows the person who lowered his legs from the bed to the floor not to feel discomfort.
  • GELEZNII_KAPUT
    GELEZNII_KAPUT 3 July 2020 18: 36
    0
    1 megawatt / hour, we have a war, and the Vlasovites were brutalized at the end? !!
  • Radikal
    Radikal 3 July 2020 20: 24
    +1
    And these convectors are supposed to heat everything: boxes, treatment rooms, resuscitation rooms, personnel rooms, warehouses.
    Here everyone, carried away by technical issues, missed one aspect related to heating residential premises with convectors - medical. After all, it is known that convectors "burn out" oxygen in the room and hospital patients who have pneumonia, and pneumonia is always accompanied by a lack of air, asthma - in general, a lack of oxygen, so putting these devices in the wards would doom patients with the above pathology to torment, and then death. It was immediately obvious that "temporary buildings" were being built in order to solve a number of tasks - 1. To create the appearance of a prompt response, thereby leveling out the damage caused by the health care reform in the eyes of society. 2. On the eve of the referendum, demonstrate to the population that the leadership is making inhuman efforts to combat the pandemic. 3. Well, as always - the "economic" component. lol Interestingly, at least one patient has visited these, or - these four constructed facilities? How many patients were healed there? The equipment rooms were shown with all possible fanfare, but what about living people? In any case, the media does not have this information. sad
    1. balabol
      balabol 3 July 2020 21: 48
      0
      You have data that electric convectors "burn out" - they reduce the percentage of oxygen in the air. Can you share? The answer "everyone knows" and "one blogger told" are not documents. SNIPs, specifications, recommendations of state regulators, if possible. And if you are such an expert, then there can be a sanitary certificate for the heater on the photo, where it is written - "burns out" oxygen.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 3 July 2020 22: 33
    0
    The fact that the people, in addition to the coronavirus in our time is no longer ill with anything, we have already been proved.
    Many people and entire industries worked on this in a single burst of world coronabesia.
    To die from coronavirus is unproven in almost nothing, but - to die with coronavirus (with helments, with sugar, with heart failure, with immunodeficiency disease, with hepatitis .... iii) die of old age, but you can always enroll in the "fashionable" coronavirus.
    Dope?
    Definitely a dope.
    Track deaths from previous infections: Blue Nile Fever, Avian Flu, Bat Flu, Ebolla Fever.
    Feel better?
    I think no. The difference in mortality is several orders of magnitude, but the difference is in the "boil" .... mom - do not cry.
    So, what's the secret - "coronavirus"?
    His secret is in his time of appearance.
    The world behind the scenes (yes, it is she) at the moment is waiting for the "coming of his messiah", capable of saving ALL the peoples of the world from lawlessness and unrest with wars, together and give the Jews power over the whole world and every soul.
    The peoples must prepare for such an acceptance.
    Everyone should be convinced of the complete lack of rights and lawlessness of the current "authorities".
    The United States presents us with a lively and current example !!!
    All peoples must believe that the arrival of the "king of the earth" will be able to solve all the accumulated problems of all the peoples of the whole world, once and for all !!!
    On earth, you can create the Paradise of God without the participation of God, on your own. But, with the participation of its opposite - Satan.
    It is he who, incarnated into the body of an earthly person, will "preach" to us another paradise, earthly and under his authority.
    Since this enemy is smart and crafty, he will be able to deceive and attract many people, even those who earlier believe and worship the One God, Christ and the Great Trinity.
    He will present himself in the form of God, in the form of Christ and in the form of three more truths. By this it can be recognized. He will have 5 I. He will declare them.
    Watch out, brothers. This time is right for years with us.
    The Jews will crown him to the world kingdom in Jerusalem.
    This will be presented to us as the salvation of the world.
    Each watched procedure on TV will fall under its influence and cannot be saved.
    TV in the furnace with his demonic news. Amen.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 3 July 2020 22: 39
    0
    Quote: balabol
    You have data that electric convectors "burn out" - they reduce the percentage of oxygen in the air. Can you share? The answer "everyone knows" and "one blogger told" are not documents. SNIPs, specifications, recommendations of state regulators, if possible. And if you are such an expert, then there can be a sanitary certificate for the heater on the photo, where it is written - "burns out" oxygen.

    Are you an expert in this field, or just curiosity according to nickname ...? What SNIPES, especially TU? Who are they, and where are they observed? However, I can say - where. Why didn’t GOST remember? Ah, yes - Medvedev canceled them, they de hinder the rapid development of the economy. So I'm waiting for a qualified answer .... winked
    1. balabol
      balabol 5 July 2020 01: 44
      +1
      My dear, where have you been before? From Monday I’ll come to work, I will put all SNIPs and GOSTs in the trash, I will put what I like in the projects, and not what is required by law, and the representatives of the military acceptance will have your letter directly under my nose. Let them rub off and my brain can not stand. If you have something else equally important, then please let me know. The law of conservation of energy and gravity is still in force, or no one is following it either.
  • Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener 3 July 2020 22: 41
    0
    To analyze the effectiveness of certain solutions, you need to know the numerical parameters of the project. Based on which, heating methods were chosen. And also take into account that materials for construction are not limited to brick and concrete. For example, the thermal conductivity of a sandwich panel insulation is 10 times lower than that of masonry. Here is a picture to compare performance.

    From what I saw at work. Modern production facilities are made entirely of sandwich panels. Because the building from them is built very quickly and in terms of performance is not inferior to the classic.
    For heating, you also need to consider specific costs and speed of implementation.
  • QWERTY
    QWERTY 3 July 2020 22: 53
    0
    It’s not very clear what the problem is. Electric radiators, so what? It was necessary to tighten the gas and build a boiler room? So faster, that's fine.
  • TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 4 July 2020 00: 37
    0
    Well, in the winter and look. What now to fence the garden.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 4 July 2020 01: 34
    0
    Quote: Servisinzhener
    To analyze the effectiveness of certain solutions, you need to know the numerical parameters of the project. Based on which, heating methods were chosen. And also take into account that materials for construction are not limited to brick and concrete. For example, the thermal conductivity of a sandwich panel insulation is 10 times lower than that of masonry. Here is a picture to compare performance.

    From what I saw at work. Modern production facilities are made entirely of sandwich panels. Because the building from them is built very quickly and in terms of performance is not inferior to the classic.
    For heating, you also need to consider specific costs and speed of implementation.

    What production facilities are we talking about? About those that are used for a long stay of people - 7-20 days continuously, and in isolation? sad
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 4 July 2020 15: 10
      0
      Office buildings at oil pumping stations in the Astrakhan region, Kalmykia, Krasnodar Territory. The logistics center on the eastern bypass of Krasnodar, all facilities operate 24/7. Not isolated, as shifts are changing.
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 4 July 2020 07: 51
    +1
    In short, everything that the Government does not do is BAD. Everything must be done differently. All ministers must be driven into the neck and one of the options should be considered (depending on the preferences of the author) 1. This was not the case in the USSR. 2. We must call the Americans - they will do it right.
  • Axon
    Axon 4 July 2020 08: 24
    +1
    Hospital buildings cannot be made "permanently" at all.
    To destroy hospital infections inside, they must be burned every five years.