Military Review

An experimental joint combat use of the Su-57 and several Su-35s is reported.

67

An experimental battle has been announced using several 4 ++ generation fighters under the control of a 5th generation aircraft. We are talking about the so-called "swarm" of Su-35, if this term is generally applicable to fighters. Management, allegedly, was carried out on board the Su-57. The fifth generation fighter served as a command and staff facility aviation.


Such information is voiced by the news agency. TASSwhich refers to unnamed sources.

One of the agency’s sources noted that in the “swarm” or “flock” there was a constant data exchange between the fighters participating in the operation. It is important that the operation was military. Processing data exchanged between aircraft was carried out using the on-board computer systems Su-35 and Su-57.

The fifth-generation Su-57 aircraft has not yet been put into service with the Russian Aerospace Forces, but he managed to take part in numerous and diverse tests. In particular, fifth-generation fighters previously went to Syria, where, as previously reported, they confirmed their functionality. Also, the Su-57 aircraft participated in tests together with a promising drone drone, developed under the S-70 Hunter program.

Earlier, India withdrew from a joint program to create a fifth-generation fighter FGFA, announcing that the aircraft being created "does not reach the fifth generation of combat aircraft."


Photos used:
Sukhoi Corporation
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  1. Insurgent
    Insurgent 28 June 2020 08: 16
    0
    An experimental joint combat use of the Su-57 and several Su-35s is reported.
    fifth-generation fighters previously flew to Syria, where, as previously reported, they confirmed their functionality.

    It is important that the operation was military.


    These "half hints" say that the Su-57, in the "swarm" mode, was used in real combat environment ?
    1. Civil
      Civil 28 June 2020 09: 01
      +3
      I wonder what the results were. And when will the full swarm of UAVs be?
      1. Elephant
        Elephant 28 June 2020 09: 53
        -10 qualifying.
        When these UAVs are riveted. Even the Turks overtook us in this, including combat use. And we are ready to sacrifice our pilots.
        1. alexmach
          alexmach 28 June 2020 11: 51
          +3
          Even the Turks overtook us in this, including combat use

          To be fair, so far the Turks have overtaken us in small "police-class" drones. And in my opinion, there is no talk about any swarm there either. A separate operator is assigned to each drone.
          1. vargo
            vargo 28 June 2020 12: 27
            +3
            And if, as usual, you look into the details, then for sure (I’m not 100% sure) it turns out that Turkey in its development is heavily dependent on the supply of various electronics from abroad. This often happens in countries where they are not yet accustomed to sanctions and deterrence. So their handicap was huge and if you take it into account, it turns out that we are developing this area much faster.
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 28 June 2020 17: 32
              0
              Yes, of course, but what does it change? So now almost everything is being created. Even the Americans are no exception here, they also borrow technology from their allies.
              1. vargo
                vargo 29 June 2020 21: 58
                0
                For a competent army, weapons should always be created taking into account the war against any possible enemy. So, the presence of any dependence on the reproduction of weapons from deliveries from abroad (that is, from a potential enemy) poses a threat to this army. This, in my opinion, is an absolute position. Yes, it is not everywhere and not always possible to maintain such a balance, but the desire must be. Well, as an example, of course, the sanctions policy of a number of foreign countries. For us, it simply does not allow us to think differently.
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach 29 June 2020 23: 58
                  0
                  This, in my opinion, is an absolute position.

                  The position is absolute and absolutely not feasible. This is currently possible for a maximum of 2 countries in the world, and then with a huge stretch. And Russia is not in the list of these countries
                  but the desire must be

                  What is the point in striving for the impossible?
                  There is a choice
                  1. to produce weapons themselves using foreign technology. At the same time, developing its own weapons school and creating new types of weapons and tactics for its use.
                  2. import weapons
                  3. Do not purchase weapons at all and do not equip the army with anything.
                  So what to choose then? With such an absolute position?
                  1. vargo
                    vargo 30 June 2020 09: 44
                    0
                    You do not have item 4) Produce weapons yourself, using only those technologies that the country itself has to the maximum. And where there is a serious lag - to develop our science and use foreign copies in order to obtain technology and develop our own science.

                    The goal strives for the ideal. An ideal may not be attainable, but the pursuit of it creates new things. Just relaxing and forgetting is also not an option.
                    1. alexmach
                      alexmach 30 June 2020 09: 55
                      0
                      You have no item 4)

                      Present, present. That's right at the very beginning of the comment. Here:
                      This is currently possible for a maximum of 2 countries in the world, and then with a huge stretch


                      To produce weapons by ourselves, using only those technologies that the country itself has to the maximum

                      Well .. honestly, choosing from "fight with sticks" and "produce drones, air defense systems, aviation, electronic warfare" but with the use of imported components, I would not hesitate to choose the latter.

                      The goal strives for the ideal. An ideal may not be attainable, but the pursuit of it creates new things

                      Blind adherence to ideals does not create. There are no universal rules that would suit everyone and always. And your "absolute" is simply not feasible for the majority.

                      PS: And by the way about electronics. and Turks. Turks have their own electronic industry, by the way.
                      1. vargo
                        vargo 30 June 2020 14: 29
                        0
                        We also have our own electronic industry. I do not understand this argument. It seems to me that the difference between you and me is not at all in the goals and roadmap, but in the presentation of the country's capabilities. Since I understand in your opinion we have nothing sensible of electronics and, in general, it seemed to me that you have a very low opinion about the possibilities in producing decent technology. I have it back, although I recognize the areas where we still have to work and work, but still have a greater opinion about the possibilities in the production of advanced technology. If this is so, then probably you and I will not come to a common opinion. The road is too long, but writing here is very inconvenient.
                      2. alexmach
                        alexmach 30 June 2020 15: 01
                        +1
                        As I understand it, we don’t have anything sensible about electronics.

                        I didn’t say such a thing, and as far as I understand, there is still something from electronics in Russia, I even knew people indirectly involved in this. How much is enough and for what purposes I will not undertake to judge. Here the Citizen claims that without the super-modern computer, which only the states have, serious drones are impossible to do. This statement seems somewhat controversial to me.
                        But electronics is only one of the components necessary for the production of military equipment, and Russia has a blockage with almost everything. With engine building, and with almost any, with rare exceptions, with optical systems. So in general with the production infrastructure.

                        I am not saying that these problems cannot be solved at all, but their very minimum solution will require serious effort of all forces and everything available. Whether Russia is capable of such tension is not clear to me.

                        At the same time, creating high-tech weapons in cooperation is the way that all countries of the world are now taking, including more technologically advanced ones. Yes, and most simply have no alternative to this.
          2. Grazdanin
            Grazdanin 28 June 2020 21: 26
            -5
            Quote: vargo
            usually look into the details


            Why drop in? There are many parts of foreign production, for the whole world this is the norm. The army buys the best that is available to it.
      2. vlad106
        vlad106 28 June 2020 16: 21
        0
        Lean Today, 10: 25 NEW
        0
        And "swarm" is how much a Su35 squadron, an air link, or an air regiment? am belay
        Civil (Vadim) Today, 09:01 NEW
        +3
        I wonder what the results were. And when will the full swarm of UAVs be?
        Indeed, a drone swarm would be understandable.
        which swarm of combat aircraft with pilots in a country with destroyed industry?
    2. VO3A
      VO3A 28 June 2020 10: 30
      -4
      The fifth generation fighter served as the command and staff means of aviation.

      The loneliness of the author and our generals just rolls over ... An ordinary ordinary exchange of information within the framework of military information systems, we have an experiment ... And without staffs they do not even represent military operations at all and heaps of old-timers in them who make quick decisions for hours and days .... It seems that our leaders live in a parallel world, and in a stone one.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 28 June 2020 21: 27
        -3
        Quote: VO3A
        It seems that our leaders live in a parallel world, and in a stone one.


        Yeah, around the 60s of their youth.
      2. Constructor68
        Constructor68 29 June 2020 05: 37
        +1
        Ordinary ordinary exchange of information within the framework of combat information systems, we have an experiment ..

        I remember a couple of months ago your cries that, they say, our aviation does not have the opportunity to exchange data "plane-plane" / "plane-hydraulic fracturing"
        without headquarters, they don’t even imagine fighting at all, and heaps of old-timers in them who make quick decisions for hours and days ..

        In your world of mental illnesses, headquarters are certainly not needed. Any laundress can make a decision about who, what and when to attack (according to Lenin) lol
        1. VO3A
          VO3A 29 June 2020 11: 13
          0
          Mental illnesses are your diagnosis, go there, this time ...
          Secondly, in air defense and aviation, the exchange of information has been established for a long time ... This is a significant achievement, no one denies it ... But on the ground and providing information and target designation, even from UAVs for the ground forces in real time ... we have a full OUT .... What Syria showed in full glory ...
          And thirdly about your "any washerwoman", the decision should be made instantly by the operator or shift senior within the framework of his positioning area and authority, taking into account the assigned means of destruction ... Enrich yourself, I'm good, and get out of your Stone Age ...
          1. Constructor68
            Constructor68 29 June 2020 13: 01
            +1
            Get rich, I'm good, and get out of your stone age ...

            Hahaha, you’re either a jester or a switchman so dexterous. I remember my discussion with you (or rather, I led the discussion, and you dumped some kind of schoolboy nonsense in response) about the capabilities of the Su-57 to exchange data in the RV. You then crowed me smartly that we had neither the equipment nor the protocols. And now, lo and behold! the phrase appears
            in air defense and aviation, the exchange of information has been established for a long time ... This is a significant achievement, no one denies it

            Do you even remember what next heresy you write, otherwise you’ll be scorched laughing
            But on the ground, and providing information and target designation, even from UAVs for the ground forces in real time ... we have a full OUT .... That Syria showed in full glory.

            This nonsense has already been debunked to you a couple of times, but you, together with some artiodactyl bovids, are again talking about "akhtung is gone!"
            1. VO3A
              VO3A 29 June 2020 14: 34
              0
              ... INSANE PERSON is worse than the enemy ... Shout "Hurray" further, that's all you can ... And there is no position, there is barking under the arm ...
              This is Troll this time and your funny Wishlist about UAVs, cause only a smile, and there is no Su-24M2 in Syria, they are with Hephaestus ..
    3. Alexey from Perm
      Alexey from Perm 29 June 2020 22: 33
      0
      in 20 years ..
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty 28 June 2020 10: 25
    +2
    And "swarm" is how much a Su35 squadron, an air link, or an air regiment? am belay
  • mark1
    mark1 28 June 2020 08: 17
    +5
    And with the 31st MiG could not do the same? He also attributed the role of the CPSU and network-centric capabilities.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 28 June 2020 09: 10
      +6
      Theoretically, just the MiG31 or Su35 should shine with a powerful radar and give data to the Su57, which in passive mode will work.
      1. NIKN
        NIKN 28 June 2020 09: 39
        +5
        Quote: Zaurbek
        Theoretically, just the MiG31 or Su35 should shine with a powerful radar and give data to the Su57, which in passive mode will work.

        A little bit wrong, this means working with data. Probably chosen as a team in connection with a more powerful on-board computer (software) .... In fact, the data processing should be carried out by the CP, here, apparently, it was worked out in a more isolated (mobile in a particular group separate) version. So let's say at the local group level. And whoever targets the question there is different, his data is also taken into account.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 28 June 2020 09: 42
          +4
          I'm talking about the fact that it is easier for an STELS airplane in passive mode to go unnoticed. And who will shine will not be so important. A working radar must unmask the aircraft.
          1. NIKN
            NIKN 28 June 2020 09: 43
            +1
            Quote: Zaurbek
            I mean the fact that it is easier for an STELS plane to pass unnoticed in passive mode

            Ideally, yes. It should work only at the reception ...
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 28 June 2020 09: 44
              -1
              and highlight periodically in the desired sector.
              1. NIKN
                NIKN 28 June 2020 09: 47
                +5
                It depends on what the task is. If the task is to carry out his stealth in the shadow of the others, this is one thing, but here they apparently trained in general to implement control of this type. The logic here is that the command aircraft is not the most vulnerable of the group. God grant. This hour is just as important as in WWII radio communications, as ours were tormented without it.
      2. VO3A
        VO3A 29 June 2020 00: 50
        0
        What nonsense, "the cart is ahead of the horse", and the "country of fools" !!! And how many Su-35 and MIG-31 should be put, which, when their radar is on, will be visible to everyone, so that the Su-57 can shoot from behind with a missile from a bomb bay, limited in size ...? !! The Su-57 should give target designation to everyone in this bundle, while remaining invisible .... They did it for this, but not everyone knows about it, and not everyone understands it .... And we have channels for exchanging information in real time until they are ... So they are slowing down with the Su-57 ... And they are giving you noodles about the engines of the 2nd stage ...
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 29 June 2020 07: 22
          0
          But the NATO team is working: Avax is hanging, it gives data, and fighters operate in a passive mode. And the power of the radar is a profitable thing.
          1. VO3A
            VO3A 29 June 2020 10: 57
            0
            No longer, F35 hangs and gives data and provides real-time target designation in passive mode .... But the power of the radar in the fight against STELS does not give anything, it has been seeing you for a long time, and you are not there, and if there is a missile against the radar there’s no chance at all ... you highlight yourself ....
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 29 June 2020 11: 16
              0
              Not in passive mode. One hangs in the Active, others get in the passive. And they exchange data and can direct each other's missiles. By the way, they can also connect with the Patriot. Passive mode does not provide complete information and range. Flu can also act.
              1. VO3A
                VO3A 29 June 2020 11: 24
                0
                In active mode, he is visible to the enemy, he is immediately shot down ... If the confrontation is with an equal enemy, and not with the Papuans ... The battle is at maximum range, and they tell us about the high maneuverability of our aircraft in close combat .... Sneaked up from above, quietly went back-these tales are simply touching, and we still have fairy tales telling about it, and it’s clear to anyone ... And it’s better two pilots in the cockpit, anyway, but also control the UAV and their swarms ... Su-30 directly to this topic....
                1. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek 29 June 2020 13: 23
                  +2
                  It may be out of reach. And give data to others.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 28 June 2020 08: 22
    +9
    It could be assumed that the 57th is not a simple aircraft, and in addition to flight and combat characteristics, it will also show some new properties. Now it becomes clear. It has a powerful radar, including side and rearview. In any case, such functionality was voiced ... By transmitting a "picture" from their radar 35, it allows them to act relatively covertly, performing a combat mission.
  • Boris55
    Boris55 28 June 2020 08: 46
    +2
    The FGFA withdrew India, announcing that the aircraft being created "falls short of the fifth generation of combat aircraft."

    And what did they want us to supply them the same as for ourselves? This does not happen.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 29 June 2020 07: 23
      0
      They wanted better than for the Russian Federation
  • Mwg
    Mwg 28 June 2020 08: 53
    +1
    Information about revolutionary changes as ordinary news, without creating excitement around, in contrast to "friends of the whole world" and their enthusiastic followers.
    This is Russia baby
    1. Hexenmeister
      Hexenmeister 28 June 2020 21: 05
      0
      And what are the revolutionary changes? Transfer information from board to board? Distribute between planes in a group?
  • lucul
    lucul 28 June 2020 08: 56
    +2
    One of the agency’s sources noted that in the “swarm” or “flock” there was a constant data exchange between the fighters participating in the operation. It is important that the operation was military. Processing data exchanged between aircraft was carried out using the on-board computer systems Su-35 and Su-57.

    The importance of network centrics in modern air battles is akin to the appearance of radio stations on WWII aircraft at one time.
    1. Pavel73
      Pavel73 30 June 2020 06: 18
      0
      The only interesting thing is how stable is the network-centric against modern electronic warfare equipment?
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 28 June 2020 09: 33
    +8
    I have a different version. This is not a swarm of Su-35s, but a swarm of hunters. If the SU-35 avionics is similar in parameters to the Hunter avionics, then just such an interaction was worked out. The hunter is still alone, but there are many 35s, so they experimented. Flight, exit to the target area, target designation, attack, return. Pilots of the 35s simply followed instructions from the 57th in the way a drone would do.
    Nevertheless, I am confused that the command aircraft is single.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 28 June 2020 10: 26
      -2
      Airplanes and UAVs according to the flying wing scheme are extremely slow, unstable and cannot actively maneuver. As a UAV, a fighter partner does not fit.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 28 June 2020 10: 29
      +1
      Quote: Wedmak
      Nevertheless, I am confused that the command aircraft is single.

      Everything is fine. He has a hefty intellectual board: the press has repeatedly talked about the elements of AI. In addition, r / l with AES and ground-based radars and machine VZOI.
      Ours follow the path of the F-35 and its role in network-centric wars. It remains to check with the A-100 (A-50U) and you can create aviation combat strike groups.
      But the thought about the S-70 I even really liked ... There will be a bunch of Hunters and 76 think tanks, which may not even enter the database zone, but solve emerging problems "on the spot", solving the given BR.
  • yfast
    yfast 28 June 2020 09: 34
    -12 qualifying.
    We will have swarms of drones with pilots. Roy is a consumable where the royalist's life is not important.
    As usual.
  • 川 建国
    川 建国 28 June 2020 09: 51
    -10 qualifying.
    The photos I saw on baidu, Chinese Internet users may be disappointed with Sue 57.
    1. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 28 June 2020 11: 16
      -1
      Quote: 川 建国
      Chinese Internet users may be disappointed with Sue 57.

      Trouble ... Absolutely trouble ... recourse And now how do we live with this? request Then let Chinese users expect applications from the Russian Federation for a couple of hundred J-20s, and for the delivery of another hundred three J-15s. fellow
      Only, if anything, they will buy by weight. The customer is Uncle Ashot, the owner of the metal reception point in the Porcelain industrial zone. wassat
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 28 June 2020 09: 53
    -1
    In fact, they began working out the compatibility of many units of aircraft and b / p for real combat operations.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 28 June 2020 10: 08
    0
    Tass is still that resource after it became private. I don't believe him from the word at all. Why the Su 57 swarms with the Su 35, let's say in Syria. Before Babakhov's aviation, which she does not have. Before the Israelis "friends", like we are Okay, the Su-57, let's say, is not very visible, but the Jews probably see the Su-35. The noise would have raised. And if they intercepted the Americans in a swarm, representatives of the Pentagon and the State Department would jump out of their pants, shouting in a jump: The Russians made the interception unprofessional and dangerous. pay for the rehabilitation of the pilots, otherwise they cry because of the stress and laugh and pretend to be snakes. I don't believe that it was in a real combat situation. Over Russia, maybe, somewhere in its central part.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 28 June 2020 10: 29
      0
      conduct experimental fight
    2. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 28 June 2020 14: 15
      -1
      What makes you think that TASS is a private resource? This is still a government agency. And RIA Novosti is the successor of the Soviet APN.
  • 013Azer
    013Azer 28 June 2020 10: 23
    +2
    And here I would like to see such a bunch in combat use. (Without MIG 35 group not group tongue ) and Hunter to them, as extra. carrier useful.

  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 28 June 2020 10: 24
    +4
    It was infa that the transfer of the Su-57 to the troops was postponed for 4 years, until the appearance of the "Super-Sukhoi": Su-57 - "2"
    Is it true?
    1. Marconi41
      Marconi41 28 June 2020 11: 36
      -3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      It was infa that the transfer of the Su-57 to the troops was postponed for 4 years, until the appearance of the "Super-Sukhoi": Su-57 - "2"
      Is it true?

      I don’t know the truth or not, but it’s very similar to that. There are problems that led to the crash of the aircraft, they are eliminated for a very long time, which indicates the seriousness of the problem, and the engine of the second stage is on the way. So there is some truth in your assumption.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 28 June 2020 12: 29
        +8
        The results of the investigation about the fall of the Su-57 were not published, but according to the evidence that fell into the press, it fell in a spiral downward. No fire.
        Assumption: tail unit failed. This is indirectly confirmed by the fact that infa immediately appeared that they plan to replace hydraulics with electric motors.
        The hydraulics probably failed.
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 28 June 2020 14: 05
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          This is indirectly confirmed by the fact that infa immediately appeared that they plan to replace hydraulics with electric motors.

          There is such a thing.
    2. Tuzik
      Tuzik 28 June 2020 15: 45
      0
      And you argued with me, you see, you can wait until from Drying, they will make Super-Drying. Not on the verge of war.
  • TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 28 June 2020 11: 06
    0
    I wonder what kind of "combat" application are we talking about? Bombed by a "swarm" of 4 Su-35 barmaley sheds in Syria, under the command of a Su-57 pilot? What a strange news, an attempt to catch up with the United States and the West in this direction. But the backwardness of 15-20 years is not so easy to remove.
    1. strelokmira
      strelokmira 28 June 2020 12: 27
      +1
      Well, this is from the same opera as Armata, which in an unequal battle destroyed from 9 to 11 ISIS tanks ..
      1. TatarinSSSR
        TatarinSSSR 28 June 2020 14: 54
        +2
        Maybe. For the last 10 years there has been an informational fake shaft, and not so much from some kind of yellow pressers as from quite official sources. As if trying to thereby increase the rating of the authorities in the eyes of gullible citizens. And this is not only in Russia, but also in many large countries of the world.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 28 June 2020 12: 14
    +3
    I wonder where they have now found such a combat situation where they needed a "swarm" of Su-57 and Su-35 ...
  • vlad106
    vlad106 28 June 2020 16: 24
    0
    Quote: vlad106
    Lean Today, 10: 25 NEW
    0
    And "swarm" is how much a Su35 squadron, an air link, or an air regiment? am belay
    ________________________________________________
    Civil (Vadim) Today, 09:01 NEW
    +3
    I wonder what the results were. And when will the full swarm of UAVs be?
    ____________________________________________
    Indeed, a drone swarm would be understandable.
    what the hell to swarm of combat aircraft with pilots in a country with destroyed industry?
    this is something from the field of Ragozin tales about the development of the universe ...
  • TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 30 June 2020 01: 12
    0
    The Su-57 was constantly involved in something, but in which no one knows. Like you see gophers? No? And they are. In the video, the Su-57 was flying next to the Hunter UAV. Like it was controlled by a drone. Or maybe it's crap? MiG-23 flew next to the space "Buran". So what? Many fly near the UAV. But that doesn't prove anything. And what kind of drone control is it from an airplane from a distance of 30 meters? The Su-57 pilot can't control it without direct visual contact ?! Or is communication with the UAV lost more than 30 meters? Further - the Su-57 visited Syria. Well visited. Is flying back and forth an achievement? Or banging a rocket or a bomb at the barmaley's barn - is this something super unique, beyond the control of, for example, the same Su-34 or Su-30? Yes, the same MiG-23 can do this without difficulty. What functionality has the SU-57 confirmed in Syria? "We won't tell you."
    1. Hexenmeister
      Hexenmeister 30 June 2020 08: 50
      0
      What functionality has the SU-57 confirmed in Syria? "We won't tell you."
      Well, for example, it is not uncommon to check the operation of the radar station against a real enemy, F-22 and F-35 are not uncommon there, to check the RTR system according to the real situation on the part of Israel and Turkey, and toss the "pig iron" unnecessarily ...
      1. TatarinSSSR
        TatarinSSSR 30 June 2020 10: 39
        0
        To check the above, there is no need to drive the car to Syria. Raptors fly at our borders both in the Baltic and the Far East. The same thing with RTR, for a long time everything could be checked on aircraft laboratories anywhere
        1. Hexenmeister
          Hexenmeister 30 June 2020 15: 08
          0
          In those areas there will be a meeting in a neutral space, but here, over Syria, you will not fly close to it, and the adversary himself should work actively, and the equipment should show the declared characteristics on board, and not on a flying laboratory.