Military Review

The Dutch court presented "evidence" of the launch of the Buk air defense missile by militia

250
The Dutch court presented "evidence" of the launch of the Buk air defense missile by militia

Dutch prosecutors continue to claim that in the summer of 2014, Boeing MH17 was shot down by militia using the Buk anti-aircraft system. In favor of its version, the prosecutor's office provided a record of telephone conversations allegedly recorded at the scene.


According to the prosecution, from the negotiations submitted by the prosecutor’s office, it follows that the Buk missile was launched by militias. With this launch, the Donbass militia tried to bring down a Ukrainian military aircraft, as evidenced by the record of negotiations. In particular, the suspects of the Dutch court Leonid Kharchenko and Sergey Dubinsky spoke specifically about the downed Ukrainian plane, and when calling another person involved in the case, Oleg Pulatov, the latter said that Buk shot down Sushka.

At the same time, the prosecution emphasizes that on that day, except for flight MH17, there were no other aircraft in the sky over the Donbass and the militia did not shoot down any aircraft. Moreover, fragments of the Buk missile were found in the wreckage of a passenger plane.

Earlier, prosecutor Theis Berger said the prosecution had a witness who allegedly saw "four soldiers in tank helmets", as well as the launch of the Buk air defense missile itself. The identity of the witness is not disclosed, he passes in court as X48. It is also reported that the witness allegedly saw the Buk air defense system driving along the road from Snezhnoye to Saur-Mogila.
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  1. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 27 June 2020 17: 00 New
    45
    Earlier, prosecutor Theis Berger said the prosecution had a witness who allegedly saw "four soldiers in tank helmets", as well as the launch of the Buk air defense missile itself.

    Didn’t you say anything about satellite imagery in the USA? belay
    There will be no money from Russia ...
    It is also reported that the witness allegedly saw the Buk air defense system driving along the road from Snezhnoye to Saur-Mogila.

    Maybe he is
    will tell you what Father Barlaam and Grishka the Pretender spoke about at the Lithuanian border
    lol
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 27 June 2020 17: 24 New
      47
      Is the farce going on? How much will this pseudo-court mix with its stupid "conclusions and decisions" of adequate inhabitants of the planet? ??
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 27 June 2020 17: 31 New
        50
        The funny thing is the so-called "rocket", which appears as material evidence, obviously delivered from some landfill, where such ammunition is regularly undermined, to verify that it remains operational after storage. During the service (back in Soviet times), I saw the wreckage of such missiles, after they regularly fired for an air target and fell from a height of several thousand meters - from them remain distorted to impossibility, torn into pieces of irregular shape, flakes. And here, - almost intact parts, even without dents. The funny thing is that everyone thinks this shit is proof ...
        1. Vicontas
          Vicontas 27 June 2020 20: 22 New
          31
          In the Netherlands, drugs are officially allowed! It looks like the prosecutor is refueling them so much that he considers his version of the prosecution to be true! I agree with the version that the Dutch special services themselves arranged a showdown in the air! Therefore, they will defend their nonsense against the horns!
          1. Fotoceva62
            Fotoceva62 28 June 2020 09: 44 New
            +9
            For us, drugs, but for the prosecutor, a source of inspiration and a means of investigation ...
        2. Cossack 471
          Cossack 471 27 June 2020 23: 02 New
          +3
          honestly. I also saw rocket fragments in the battlefields at the Balkhash-9 training grounds (SAM 200 Vega) and twice at the Ashuluk training ground. Volga platform -8 (SAM-75 Volkhov M-3) And as a rule, the nose of the rocket was turned apart. and then everything was whole I ordered the soldiers to remove stabilizers from the PRD-58. because usually during training the lower stabilizers smashed against the boom of the PU. Everything was removed normally. But they did not touch the marching part of the missiles. there remained the remnants of the oxidizing agent and fuel and the air in the balloon balloon and unexploded squibs And so usually the marching part of the rocket (pipe) was practically the whole
          1. Serg koma
            Serg koma 28 June 2020 06: 24 New
            +8
            Quote: Cossack 471
            I also saw rocket fragments in battlefields at Balkhash-9 training grounds

            But did shooting ever take place at Balkhash-9 ??? Or do you confuse the name of the polygons?
            Destination "Balkhash 9" combat duty on the radar station - somewhere you were brought there in the privacy mode laughing
      2. demo
        demo 27 June 2020 17: 38 New
        14
        The court is a farce and a farce.
        No doubt about it.
        The consequences for Russia - you can laugh.
        If you want.
        1. Russobel
          Russobel 27 June 2020 17: 45 New
          10
          The consequences for Russia - you can laugh.

          In Holland, to laugh, but no question ...
          And legally.
          1. demo
            demo 27 June 2020 17: 47 New
            +2
            Already not funny. stop
            1. pytar
              pytar 27 June 2020 20: 31 New
              -46
              Hi Wang! hi Unfortunately, the situation is not at all in favor of the accused ... There is too much evidence, even though they cannot be ignored. I remember in the evening of July 17, 2014, on DPR television channels and even on Russian ones, they showed a report as the militia shot down the "Ukrainian military transport carrier" for days! Into the area where MH17 was shot down! The next day, all these cadres disappeared ... In the world, few doubt that it was the militia that brought down the Boeing. Tragic mistakes are made in the war.
              1. demo
                demo 27 June 2020 21: 00 New
                +5
                Hello, Boyan. hi
                I do not condone, but maybe there is such a story.

                There is a conflict.
                Who will defeat whom?
                In order to raise morale, could they even launch a desu?
                With good goals, as you understand.
                And then this tragedy!
                Naturally, they cleaned and cleaned everything.

                But it could also be this: in those structures that were responsible for the information field of the DPR there were people who did not share the views of those who, with arms in their hands, began to fight against the Nazis.
                And the same could be?

                These are just working hypotheses and nothing more.

                It’s clear to me, though not a rocket launcher, but who has served in the army, that shooting down an airplane is not from a sparrow’s slingshot (it’s also not easy).
                A lot has been written about this. And many.
                And the most important thing.
                Any operation should have some goals.
                Shoot down for the sake of simple courage - this is not the case.
                What is the benefit of the DPR (and let Russia) from this crime?
                None.
                And to hide real participation in such an operation is not possible.
                Unless you have been appointed guilty.

                If you look at all this from the point of view of Kiev, then there are a lot of preferences for him.
                And the world condemnation of atrocities, and sanctions against the geostrategic enemy - Russia, and revenge for the Crimea and a lot of extra pluses.

                I am always interested to consider any event from the point of view - profitable or not.
                There are exceptions.
                But not in this case.

                I hug
                With God.
                1. pytar
                  pytar 27 June 2020 22: 46 New
                  -18
                  Bearing in mind how often mistakes occur during military conflicts, I am still inclined to believe that this is the case here. It is from "friendly fire" sometimes more losses than from the enemy! In Donbass, the front is blurred, communications are not well-established, anything can happen. Unintentional defeat on an incorrectly identified target! Probably the calculation did not have the necessary experience, and the situation was extremely tense! It looks like a case in Tehran. I understand that for an ordinary person it’s hard to accept such an unpleasant situation, but unfortunately there is any kind of war.

                  With God, my friend! hi
                  1. demo
                    demo 27 June 2020 23: 18 New
                    25
                    Boyan.
                    Well, wait to make such "gifts."
                    "The front is blurred, communications are not established, the target is incorrectly identified, the calculation did not have the necessary experience, the situation is tense."
                    Listed everything?
                    Come on then.
                    Beech - Russian.
                    He was brought and left in the DNI.
                    The numbers destroyed everything, otherwise God forbid the Ukrainians get there, you won’t get grief.
                    Calculation began to form from the local.
                    At the time of events, and this is 2014, there were probably no specialists who would know and know how to use the equipment. And if they were, then they served in the air defense for a very long time.
                    From the open data of Ukraine you can find out when the specialists of these higher educational establishments were called up for training and retraining.
                    Moving on.
                    One Buk is a weapon, but not what you need.
                    Also in the kit you need a charging machine, a detection and target designation station, a launching and loading machine (if this is a one-time operation, but transferred for a long time so that Ukrainian letaki fly around the region, otherwise the air conditioners explode in Donetsk) and the headquarters machine.
                    One Buk does not solve the problems with Ukrainian aviation.
                    And where are the rest?
                    Some kind of encrypted witness “saw four people in headsets” and he saw another rocket launch.
                    An encrypted witness is crap.
                    Such a witness will not even be allowed on the threshold in any court.
                    He just then could change the whole biography and the country of life.
                    Faith to such a statement is not and cannot be.
                    This is a setup.

                    Let's go further.
                    They gathered the men and explained "where to aim and which button to press."
                    Clicked and hit!
                    What do you think about that? Stupidity is natural.
                    All right.
                    The rockets were brought from Russia. North wind brought.
                    But they need to train more than one day.
                    And then the war is real.
                    I think that from their participation there would be no more sense.

                    So think about what kind of aces and where they come from, that they could work on this technique.
                    I have a rich fantasy, but I also lack it.

                    And more.
                    Almaz-Antey conducted field tests of his system.
                    Interested in results in Holland?
                    Нет!
                    Ballistics proved that it was not possible to launch from the territory of the DPR (forgot the name of the area), based on the presence of holes in the fuselage.
                    Is anyone interested in this?
                    Yes, no!
                    According to the numbers of the rocket, they found out that it was from warehouses located in western Ukraine.
                    Did this take into account?
                    No.
                    The striking elements of modern Russian Bukov and those that were found in the bodies do not correspond to each other. Is this taken into account?
                    Нет!
                    What is needed for an impartial trial?
                    The testimony of the dispatchers from the Ukrainian side.
                    Data from American satellites that were in orbit at that time.
                    And we arrived.
                    But when someone is appointed guilty, everything is done so that all necessary doubts are interpreted against.
                    Although in ALL jurisdictions of ALL countries there is a concept - the presumption of innocence.
                    Any doubt can be interpreted only in favor of the accused, and not against him.
                    Here the picture is the opposite.
                    Don’t worry Boyan.

                    True - this is such a thing that anyway it will crawl out.
                    As an awl from a bag.
                    Have a rest, friend.
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 28 June 2020 00: 51 New
                      -19
                      True - this is such a thing that anyway it will crawl out.

                      No doubt about it! But it will not be soon! Zeroing has gone ... bully
                      With all that, I hope your situation will be normal.! drinks
                      1. Serg koma
                        Serg koma 28 June 2020 09: 04 New
                        12
                        Quote: pytar
                        But it will not be soon! Zeroing has gone ...

                        The burning of the Reichstag in 1933 and the accusation of the Communists is an example - the truth did not open soon, but very soon played an important role in strengthening the Nazi power in Germany.
                      2. pytar
                        pytar 28 June 2020 12: 21 New
                        -6
                        The burning of the Reichstag in 1933 and the accusation of the Communists is an example - the truth did not open soon, but very soon played an important role in strengthening the Nazi power in Germany.

                        Such receptions are often used in domestic and foreign policy. But let's not forget that George Dimitrov still managed to prove his innocence in a Nazi court! At the same time, the Stalinist “courts” ruined tens of thousands of innocent people, with false accusations. I recall again the case of George Dimitrov! When he, the Hero from Leipzig, was solemnly greeted in Moscow, Stalin said the following sentence to him: "You managed to save him, because the Nazis judge poorly ... you must first shoot them out and judge them. Then they would not have a problem" .
                        I’ll tell you one more fact with G. Dimitrov! After the victory of the Communists in Bulgaria, G. Dimitrov became the leader of the party and state. Head of intra-party purges, camps, gulags. In the lists of persons liable for liquidation, which were presented to Stalin, appeared and ... George Dimitrov! An ardent Stalinist himself, he, for some questions, came into conflict with Stalin! At the last moment, Stalin crossed him out of the list, in view of the fact that Dimitrov was very popular in the international communist movement. But another ardent Stalinist was not lucky ... Traicho Kostov, the man leading the anti-fascist struggle in BG to the place, was "condemned" as a "British spy" and eliminated. Well, things were going on. hi
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 28 June 2020 14: 27 New
                        +9
                        Quote: pytar
                        I’ll tell you one more fact with G. Dimitrov!

                        You don’t talk about our teeth - here we are not talking about arson, but about a specific missile defeat of a civilian aircraft. So do not wag with Dimitrov - he is a hero for us, and for you now he is almost a state criminal.
                      4. Serg koma
                        Serg koma 28 June 2020 14: 48 New
                        +1
                        Quote: pytar
                        But let's not forget

                        The first is the background of history and its results in Germany after February 27, 1933. They blamed the communists for usurping power (Boyan’s brevity, brevity!) Why are you here and the post-war Bulgaria?

                        The second is Stalin’s sarcasm (I wonder if it was Stalin himself who told you, or Dimitrov), supporting documents of Stalin’s words in your hands?

                        And the third - “But the fact remains, the Russian nation turned out to be stronger and more enduring in this crazy war, and I won’t be surprised if salvation for the white race comes from the East. It will be logical.” A. Hitler - from an interview, was recorded the day before Hitler's suicide by Kurt Speidler (not 100% confirmed)
                      5. pytar
                        pytar 28 June 2020 16: 09 New
                        -10
                        The first is the background of history and its results in Germany after February 27, 1933. They blamed the communists, usurped power .... Why are you here and the Soviet Union drag and post-war Bulgaria?

                        Dear, you have raised this topic. She really is not true. I answered you.
                        The second is Stalin’s sarcasm (I wonder if it was Stalin himself who told you, or Dimitrov), supporting documents of Stalin’s words in your hands?

                        This is from the book "George Dimitrov - A Critical Biography" written by Mona Fascolo. It also mentions that Tsar Boris I interceded before the Germans for Dimitrov.
                        “But the fact remains, the Russian nation was stronger and more enduring in this crazy war, and I won’t be surprised if salvation for the white race comes from the East. It will be logical.” A. Hitler.

                        I know the passage data. Sometimes Hitler also told the truth ... I have only one doubt - the white race and in Russia is not quite white ... sad
                      6. Motorist
                        Motorist 28 June 2020 18: 46 New
                        +6
                        Quote: pytar
                        the white race and in Russia is no longer completely white ...

                        Minus for inciting.
                      7. pytar
                        pytar 28 June 2020 20: 05 New
                        -7
                        Minus for inciting.

                        what are you ?! I myself am black as coal! laughing
          2. your1970
            your1970 28 June 2020 09: 55 New
            +6
            Quote: demo
            The striking elements of modern Russian Bukov and those that were found in the bodies do not correspond to each other. Is this taken into account?
            Нет!

            There is more fun - they found TWO type of striking elements !!!!
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 28 June 2020 17: 02 New
              +5
              Quote: your1970
              There is more fun, they found TWO types of damaging elements !!!!

              Rather, they did so — at first they found one type — they were flailing, because he didn’t get away from modern Russian missiles, but very much from Ukrainian ones. Then they learned what type of destructive elements in Russian missiles and already found it ...
          3. Region68
            Region68 29 June 2020 13: 58 New
            -3
            Himself invented himself disproved ..
            Well done
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 28 June 2020 10: 57 New
          +8
          Quote: pytar
          Unintentional defeat on an incorrectly identified target!

          Stop bending, Gabrovian - do you even have any idea what the combat calculation of the air defense system is? And the fact that you will not include a miner or a taxi driver in it until you run it in for six months in training, and then they will do some good training before putting such a person on the post. In general, burn on, you still do not have faith.
          1. pytar
            pytar 28 June 2020 12: 31 New
            -5
            Stop bending, gabrowiec

            bully Here the Gabrovians cut the tails of cats, there is such an anecdote! good
            What is the combat calculation of an air defense complex? And the fact that you will not include a miner or a taxi driver in it until you run it in for six months in training, and then they will do some good training before putting such a person on the post.

            And there is! With all this, the crash of the mistake of passenger airliners happened more than once! Do you remember the Americans about the Iranian airliner shot down over the Persian Gulf? A South Korean over Sakhalin? Recently, Iran shot down the Ukrainian! Ukrainians during the exercise also shot down one over the Black Sea! Even Bulgaria has had such a case since the 50s. A fighter shot down an Israeli civilian aircraft by mistake.
            In general, burn on, you still do not have faith.

            You know, believers and unbelievers do not really bother me ... lol
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 28 June 2020 13: 35 New
              +4
              The calculation of the air defense system is not ZU-23, without adequate preparation it’s not enough to hit, but they will not be able to shoot. These both shot and hit.
            2. nemez
              nemez 29 June 2020 20: 56 New
              0
              But you yourself believe in all dick.
        3. Region68
          Region68 30 June 2020 11: 40 New
          -1
          Somewhere I read the version about the informant at some Ukrainian airfield .. the SBU followed him .. He gave the info when the plane flies into the combat zone .. He was arrested, the flight of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was canceled, and Buk waited without knowing about it ..
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 27 June 2020 21: 02 New
      13
      Tell me what. And then on the stage, read quite in the zone of defeat of Ukrainian Bukov 156 air defense missile systems of the Air Force there are fragments of the liner. Moreover, the VVSU denies the loss of a regiment in Donetsk. The regiment is fully withdrawn to the territory controlled by the Junta. Where did SPU come from July 17?

      As for the report, you are fed poisoned meat, this is another report.
      1. pytar
        pytar 27 June 2020 23: 02 New
        -25
        Tell me what.

        Look for the video from Vadim Lukashevich. They are many and in them he gives answers to all possible questions. At first, looking only at the Russian media, I was convinced that the downing of MN17 was a Ukrainian-American provocation. Some obvious unstable and contradictory in them, gave in haste. But from time to time, a lot of things became known and the puzzle contracted logically.
        As for the report, you are fed poisoned meat, this is another report.

        The authenticity of this report is confirmed. The court accepted the ego as evidence. Frankly, even earlier I was perplexed when I looked at a series of mutually contradictory statements and statements of the Russian Defense Ministry. It was obvious to him that something was wrong ...
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 28 June 2020 00: 08 New
          22
          They are many and in them he gives answers to all possible questions.
          Look for the video from Vadim Lukashevich.


          I know that. This is the same illiterate epic eeeee stupid person. Which inspiredly lied that, for example, Buk’s calculation is not able to determine the speed of the target. They say that the An-26 military-technical transport with a parade speed of 450 km / h and a huge airliner at an altitude of three times the higher echelon An and at a speed twice as high as not less than 900 km / h. This is enough for me to consider him a vile liar ... Then the really stupid Vadimka began frantically rewriting his libel. But people remember that ...

          The court accepted the ego as evidence.

          Periodically hearing what kind of nonsense the members of the so-called tribunal bear, they will even believe in the Scarecrow of the wise with a head full of sawdust .....

          when I looked at a series of mutually conflicting statements and statements of the Russian Defense Ministry. It was obvious to him that something was wrong ...

          Of course not. The so-called partners, having killed a liner with three hundred souls, completely outplayed Moscow, which started well, but failed to effectively complete the gambit under the conditions of tsutswang, and therefore, in the end, I had to listen to the conditions of a "water truce" ...
          1. pytar
            pytar 28 June 2020 00: 40 New
            -23
            This is the same illiterate epic eeeee stupid person.

            Somewhere I watched a poll, according to which 3% of Russians believe that a militia shot down a Boeing. Here in VO they probably 0%. For the rest, everyone who claims to be that way will be "stupid man." They won’t even listen to him. The phenomenon is well known to psychologists.
            1. Dmitry10SPb
              Dmitry10SPb 28 June 2020 02: 14 New
              15
              Naturally, zero.
              Strelkov clearly said that the Boeing militia did not bring down. And in this I believe him. To the question of who shot down, it is better to answer this way: look at it and keep silent. It has long been obvious.
            2. pytar
              pytar 28 June 2020 11: 05 New
              -12
              Naturally zero

              This is not natural. Masculine psychosis is not a normal condition for societies.
              Strelkov clearly said that the Boeing militia did not bring down.

              I would be wildly surprised if he said that they shot down ... bully
              It has long been obvious.

              The evidence here is controversial ...
            3. ccsr
              ccsr 30 June 2020 12: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Dmitry10SPb
              Strelkov clearly said that the Boeing militia did not bring down. And in this I believe him.

              It is not even a matter of Strelkov’s statement, which cannot be an official representative of Russia, but the whole problem is that the Americans do not want to lay out to the Dutch investigators all the intelligence they have about the downed Bring. And they have it, and it directly proves that Russia has nothing to do with this matter, and all the blame lies with the Ukrainian authorities. That is why they refuse to show anything for the investigation, and this is a head betraying those who are trying to hang this catastrophe on Russia.
          2. aszzz888
            aszzz888 28 June 2020 02: 47 New
            11
            pytar (Boyan Ivanov) Today, 00:40
            -1
            This is the same illiterate epic eeeee stupid person.

            Somewhere watched a pollaccording to which 3% of Russians believe that a militia shot down a Boeing. Here in VO they probably 0%.
            last name of the opinion poll? laughing And do not strain for VO, it is not given. !!!!!!!!! angry
          3. pytar
            pytar 28 June 2020 11: 07 New
            -12
            last name of the opinion poll? And do not strain for VO, it is not given O !!!!!!!!!

            I don’t remember exactly, but it was on Ross. website. What is not given, it is not given ... I assure you, I do not strain at all. From the word "completely". yes
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. boris epstein
          boris epstein 28 June 2020 15: 03 New
          +3
          There is a documentary on the Internet: "The whole truth about MH17: a sensational investigation of the colonel of the SBU" SBU Security Service of Ukraine. SBU Colonel Vasily Prozorov led the investigation while still in the ranks of the SBU. Then he crossed over with ALL DOCUMENTS to the DPR side and ended up in Moscow. Do not be lazy, look. There are specifically named surnames. From me. Until I see the American satellite images and the dispatcher of the Ukrainian airport, Anna Petrenko, until they explain to me why a BUK with tactical number 312 156 of the anti-aircraft missile defense regiment of Ukraine was taken out on a trailer via Debaltseve and Krasnoarmeysk (both cities were in Ukraine’s hands in 2014, and Krasnoarmeysk is still in their hands), according to that Dutch group of investigators, I won’t believe that the BUK was Russian. By the way, find on the Google maps Snezhnoye, Debaltseve and Krasnoarmeysk. To export beech to Russia through Debaltseve occupied by Ukraine? Nonsense. But there is a road from Snezhnoye through Anthracite of the Luhansk region. But there was no BUK in Anthracite. In addition, to transport the BUK from Snezhny through Debaltseve to Krasnoarmeysk-hook 360 km. And the cherry on the cake. Last year, the 156th Ukraine Air Defense Missile Regiment participated in a parade in Kiev on Independence Day. This regiment is the only one in Ukraine equipped with beech.
        4. nemez
          nemez 29 June 2020 20: 59 New
          0
          I am amazed at your masochism. Bulgarians still want to go back to the Ottoman
        5. pytar
          pytar 30 June 2020 12: 32 New
          0
          And then the Bulgarians ?! I express my personal opinion. People think differently. Let there be alternative points of view!
  • akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 27 June 2020 21: 04 New
    28
    Evidence that cannot be refuted, including technical, was provided by Russia. But they were put out of investigation because of inconvenience. All real witnesses / participants from the Ukrainian side, like a pilot and a dispatcher, "suddenly died abruptly." Your American friends, too, according to objective control from the same space, "suddenly" classified. The Malaysians, whose airliner crashed - nafig were sent to investigate, were left with ukriks (didn’t they have anything to do with it, right? Moreover, they had nothing to do with it installed by the West right away - they did not have time to cool down).
    And only western people from convenient pieces of incomplete Dutch vagabond diligently pull an owl on the globe for their production version.
    The world and you, gentlemen of the Westerners, are not the same, neither in volume, nor in quality, nor in quantity.
    1. pytar
      pytar 28 June 2020 00: 42 New
      -20
      Evidence that cannot be refuted, including technical, was provided by Russia.

      Do you seriously believe that if the militia really hit the Boeing, Russia will provide objective evidence?
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 28 June 2020 02: 52 New
        16

        Evidence that cannot be refuted, including technical, was provided by Russia.

        Do you seriously believe that if a militia really knocks down a Boeing, Russia will provide objective evidence?
        What do the Merikatos satellites say? Huh? They are silent ...
        And why? Huh?
        And where is the info from the dispatchers unnecessary? Huh?
        Where are they themselves? Huh?
        And many more, many why and where!
        1. pytar
          pytar 28 June 2020 11: 12 New
          -15
          What do the Merikatos satellites say? Huh? They are silent ...

          Yes, they are not silent, the court reviewed the data from them. Of course, they won’t show it in the public domain, because this will reveal the characteristics of reconnaissance satellites. In such cases, the court operates according to the logarithm prescribed in the rules.
          And many more, many why and where!

          There are many questions, especially to the theses presented by Ross. side. By the way, she is not yet a side to the matter, in the classical understanding of this concept. The accused are personally responsible until a connection is established between them and Ross. authorities.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 28 June 2020 12: 10 New
            +9
            Why are you lying? The Dutch were denied access to objective control data. But the so-called Dutch judges feed each other with fairy tales that they supposedly showed pictures to someone from afar, and there he personally saw Buk with the Russian flag with an area of ​​20 sq.m.
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 28 June 2020 08: 42 New
        +8
        The United States did not provide objective evidence, hinting that they have a shot, but we will not show it ... wassat
        This is also a marker. So for me the culprit is obvious. The liner is destroyed by order from Washington. Removed the figure received the game.
        1. pytar
          pytar 28 June 2020 11: 16 New
          -11
          The United States did not provide objective evidence, hinting that they have a shot, but we will not show it ...

          Granted, respected ... There are defined procedures by which the court becomes familiar with the evidence and decides whether or not to accept it.
          So for me the culprit is obvious.

          Captain obvious? wink Well, you and I can have completely different opinions on the issue, but the Judge decides!
      3. Serg koma
        Serg koma 28 June 2020 09: 12 New
        14
        Quote: pytar
        Do you seriously believe that if the militia really hit the Boeing, Russia will provide objective evidence?

        Do you seriously think that Ukraine, a member of the investigation team, will provide objective evidence of its guilt ??? belay
      4. your1970
        your1970 28 June 2020 10: 00 New
        +7
        Quote: pytar
        Evidence that cannot be refuted, including technical, was provided by Russia.

        Do you seriously believe that if the militia really hit the Boeing, Russia will provide objective evidence?

        Then why Ukraine did not provide a record of negotiations of air traffic controllers? I have a feeling that at the most extreme moment, Russia will put this trump card ... And it will be a blow to the court ....
        1. pytar
          pytar 28 June 2020 11: 17 New
          -5
          Then why Ukraine did not provide a record of negotiations of air traffic controllers? I have a feeling that at the most extreme moment, Russia will put this trump card ... And it will be a blow to the court ....

          We are waiting ... probably everyone has additional trump cards. hi
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt 27 June 2020 22: 05 New
    18
    Quote: pytar
    on the evening of July 17, 2014, on DPR television channels

    TV channels are not a source of true information. Journalists all over the world, in the pursuit of "sensation", all the time, voice unverified information. On the issue of "intercepted conversations of militants," so Malaysian experts have long studied them. (and they are an interested party) The verdict, "evidence" is glued from fragments of phrases, and very rudely.
    1. pytar
      pytar 27 June 2020 23: 09 New
      -16
      I answered above, dear Kirril, on this question. There would be less doubt if the Russian Defense Ministry did not make mutually exclusive statements one after another. And there are a lot of questions to Antei-Almaz ... For an open-minded person, their position is very, very weak! hi And to argue with those who consider it impossible to sell the Malaysian Boeing to the militias, "because it cannot be," for me personally, it makes no sense. request This is the type of people to whom no evidence or arguments will convince.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 28 June 2020 00: 13 New
        15
        Quote: pytar
        who consider it impossible to sell the Malaysian Boeing to the militias, "because it cannot be," for me personally, it makes no sense.

        So tell me what they shot down? Where did SPU come from, how did it end up in the right place at the right time. Where did the calculation prepared for the shooting come from. I have never fired from an air defense system, it just so happened. But still, when he taught. An unprepared crew cannot shoot. This is an axiom.
        Quote: pytar
        This is the type of people to whom no evidence or arguments will convince.

        Are you talking about yourself right now?
        1. pytar
          pytar 28 June 2020 00: 46 New
          -10
          So tell me what they shot down?

          In court, all evidence presented. To the smallest detail straight.
          Are you talking about yourself right now?

          Not. I changed my mind watching the situation. Of course I can’t say anything unequivocally, because I don’t know everything. But it is certain that the theses on the Russian side look unconvincing.
      2. orionvitt
        orionvitt 28 June 2020 01: 05 New
        12
        Quote: pytar
        This is the type of people to whom no evidence or argument will convince

        What kind of evidence? They are not, from the word at all. Where is the main witness, that is, the dispatcher? Oh, he is gone. The whole investigation is closed. Even a goat understands who shot down and who covers whom. Here the matter is sewn not even with white threads, but with white ropes. You there in Europe generally went all the way, or you think that the whole world consists of nerds. So I grieve you, it’s not.
        1. pytar
          pytar 28 June 2020 11: 19 New
          -5
          What kind of evidence? They are not, from the word at all.

          Dear Vitaliy, the evidence is where it should be! To the judge! What you and I do not know, the court knows.
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 29 June 2020 13: 03 New
            +4
            i don't know

            That is, you do not know, but you continue to blame the Russian Federation and the DPR with stubborn obstinacy. Interesting position, did not read, but blame.
            the court knows.
            And who are the judges ??? Why is the country that owned the downed board not allowed to "investigation" and continue to be prevented? And Malaysia says that everything is not so “straightforward”, as they say in court. You are the usual victim of Western propaganda and brainwashing. No offense, this is a FACT. You do not know, but you state the "facts."
          2. pytar
            pytar 29 June 2020 17: 42 New
            -3
            That is, you do not know, but you continue to blame the Russian Federation and the DPR with stubborn obstinacy. Interesting position, did not read, but blame.

            Alexei, I draw my conclusions based on public information coming from all sides, including from Russia. I’m not blaming anyone! I believe the situation is the same with you ... Accordingly, your statements are no less controversial.
            And who are the judges ??? Why is the country that owned the downed board not allowed to "investigation" and continue to be prevented?

            This is not true, Alexey. You are clearly not in the know how the investigation was conducted and by what rules the Hague court works. By the way, the claims on the part of Russia to the court have no basis. Initially, Ukraine proposed that the case be looked at by the UN International Court of Justice, but the Russian Federation vetoed it.
            And Malaysia says that everything is not so “straightforward”, as they say in court.

            What "Malaysia" does it say !? Have you heard from rus-media? The official Malaysian authorities unequivocally accept the Hague court as being calibrated with full competence. There is not a single official gripe with the Malaysian side and the work of the investigation.
            You are the usual victim of Western propaganda and brainwashing. No offense, this is a FACT. You do not know, but you state the "facts."

            No offense, but you’re the usual Russian priesthood. propaganda and further on the text ... I for the difference from you, looked / listened / read, / was interested in info from completely different sources. And I have no doubt that the court will give an honest, objective prosecution to the guilty!
          3. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 30 June 2020 17: 09 New
            0
            В
            Have you heard from rus-media? Official Malaysian authorities,

            https://www.pravda.ru/news/world/1239703-boeing/
            https://mediarepost.ru/news/316581-premer-malayzii-prokommentiroval-hod-rassledovaniya-po-boeing-mh17.html
            https://ruposters.ru/news/17-07-2019/premer-malaizii-rassledovanii?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2Fnews
            Boyan, is that enough for you? The official words of the Premiere of the country? It didn’t sound in your western media.
            And where does the UN International Court of Justice ??? Russia understands that this will be a trial and defends its interests. The time has passed when we turned the other cheek, instead of the shocked one.
            And I have no doubt that the court will give an honest, objective prosecution to the guilty!

            That is, photos from social networks and protocols of interrogations of "People X" - do you admit fair and objective evidence ??? Boyan, I’m a lawyer by training. I have many years of operational experience. I don’t need to give out replicated information from the media for objective evidence. Question (as a professional) FIRST and MAIN - why did the investigation team not collect all the fragments of the liner at the scene ??? That is, the main action "Inspection of the scene" was carried out (to put it mildly) not qualitatively, superficially. I am generally silent about the rest of the investigative actions.
          4. pytar
            pytar 30 June 2020 18: 54 New
            -2
            Dear Alexey, I promised my friends here that I would come out of the comments. I will keep my promise, at least for each line of your post, made checks and have conclusions. Go through the links to the original in English. and you will see the difference itself in the meaning of what was said. The topic of the role of the media, one of their points on the case. By the way, our media write about all this in the central media. They give out all points of view. BNR / Bulgarian national radio / came out with the headline: "Malaysia challenged the accusations of Russia for the dumping of Boeing over Ukraine." The former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad is quoted verbatim, by the way he is an ardent anti-American. Okay, that’s all from me. hi
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 28 June 2020 02: 54 New
    +9
    pytar (Boyan Ivanov) Yesterday, 23:09 PM
    -4
    I answered above, dear Kirril, on this question. It would be less than a doubt if the Russian Defense Ministry
    And even less “there would be doubts” if Russian experts also took part in the case, and not just cluck on the Merikatos training manual.
    1. pytar
      pytar 28 June 2020 11: 20 New
      -6
      And even less “there would be doubts” if Russian experts also took part in the case, and not just cluck on the Merikatos training manual.

      They took part. For a few steps. For some reason you are in rus-media, they don’t talk about this ...
  • demo
    demo 28 June 2020 07: 32 New
    +7
    Boyan.
    The fact is that there is no need to argue.
    The situation got out of hand.
    More precisely, she has reached a dead end.
    And it was not we-Russia that drove her into a dead end, but those who today set up a farce in Holland.
    No matter how Russia fought, how it did not offer either its strength, nor its participation, nor its specialists, everything was rejected.
    Why then should we argue.
    And more.
    To admit that in the ranks of those who are considered to be the militia there are people who knowingly, deliberately shot down a passenger liner, the death of which absolutely no one needs - this is for me, for Russians it is ABSOLUTELY not acceptable.
    But you should understand that even trying to think like that is tantamount to pouring a bucket of slop on yourself, and on your family, and on your kind.
    You can argue and discuss about a lot, about almost everything, but there are deep edges of national culture, traditions, customs that make up the soul of the people.
    They do not argue about this.
    And the Bulgarians have untouchable topics for communication.
    You, if you can, leave this not a simple topic.
    Otherwise, many will not have a very correct opinion about you.
    Accept as friendly advice.
    1. military_cat
      military_cat 28 June 2020 09: 32 New
      -8
      Quote: demo
      To admit that in the ranks of those who are considered to be the militia there are people who knowingly, deliberately shot down a passenger liner, the death of which absolutely no one needs - this is for me, for Russians it is ABSOLUTELY not acceptable.
      But you should understand that even trying to think like that is tantamount to pouring a bucket of slop on yourself, and on your family, and on your kind.

      Do you know what is even more shameful and garbage than to bring down a plane (by the way, by mistake) and admit it? Shot down a plane and lie that someone else shot it down. To give out a bunch of "irrefutable" and at the same time disproving each other evidence, it is hypocritical to worry about Malaysia, having previously vetoed its draft international tribunal at the UN. This is really a disgrace, and this can only be denied by those who think that they successfully outwitted everyone with their lies, and no one understands what happened and continues to happen before their eyes.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 28 June 2020 12: 22 New
        +4
        Quote: military_cat
        is it even more shameful and garbage than to bring down an airplane (by the way, by mistake) and admit it?


        It’s most shameful to once again organize the destruction of the liner, to create an informational occasion for the attack on Russia. However, any crime can be expected from the clans that own and govern the United States
    2. pytar
      pytar 28 June 2020 11: 37 New
      -7
      Friendly Van, I understand that for a number of reasons, the current government in the Russian Federation can not to admit. This would mean recognition of its direct intervention in the war in the Donbass. Therefore, they will be denied and beating to the end. They will pull and breed ships, they cannot do anything else.
      In principle, there are 2 main points:
      1. Boeing was shot down by Ukraine. It was a special operation with the goal of blaming Russia.
      2. Boeing shot down the militia by mistake.
      The first thesis is less likely. Such an operation poses too many risks for the conspirators. It cannot be guaranteed in a sufficient degree. Donbas is not only watched by the United States, all Russian intelligence systems work there ...
      The second thesis is very likely. It happened more than once that even a well-trained military shot down a civilian plane by mistake. Remember when the US shot down an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf? Ukraine had aviation, no militia! Accordingly, the militia needed air defense.
      You, if you can, leave this not a simple topic. Otherwise, many will not have a very correct opinion about you.

      I always express only my personal opinion. There will always be people with a different opinion and there is no nationality.
      Accept as friendly advice.

      You're right, you can’t stick your finger in a hornet’s nest .. laughing Thanks for the advice, I will answer the latest comments and come out of discussions. hi
      Be well, Van! good
      1. demo
        demo 28 June 2020 12: 56 New
        +4
        Donbass is not only watched by the United States, all Russian intelligence systems work there ...

        Believe me, friend, the intelligence system of the Russian Federation is directed in the wrong direction.
        We move away from the Boeing theme and return to the anticipated period.
        All events unfolding in Ukraine were not only not monitored, but also stopped.
        I know what I'm talking about.
        I do not serve in intelligence. But people serve there .....
        Those. any information that could violate the Kremlin’s “coherent policy” was cut off.
        And even those who had a name, authority and position were forced to simply contemplate what was unfolding there in Ukraine.
        And only at the last moment, when Yanyk liquidated himself from fear and cried out, then a special operation was carried out.
        And pay attention.
        He, being 50-70 km from the border of the Russian Federation in the Kharkov region, was forced with a motorcade and escort to travel to the Crimea.
        If our air defense systems were activated and operated towards Ukraine, then Yanyka would be loaded aboard in Kharkov.
        And so - oh and alas.
        And nothing has changed even after the "dancing with pots."
        Ukraine is a fraternal country, Ukrainians are a fraternal people, Mr. Putin said so.
        By the way, I thought so, up to a point.
        Now the opinion of the country and people has changed.

        So the version that the Boeing could have been shot down from Ukraine is even more preferable with Ukrainian air defense systems.

        And the idea was as follows.
        Even if Ukraine is caught by the hand and prove its guilt, then it has every right to say - a mistake has come out.
        They thought the Russian strategist popped to Kiev or somewhere else.
        Ukrainians should not take the experience of lying about downed planes with passengers.

        The completely dependent and servilely ingratiating government and the president of Ukraine before the United States would not only commit such a crime, but could also independently offer their masters such a middle game (I hope you play chess).
      2. Icarus
        Icarus 28 June 2020 14: 54 New
        +1
        In principle, there are 2 main points:
        1. Boeing was shot down by Ukraine. It was a special operation with the goal of blaming Russia.
        2. Boeing shot down the militia by mistake.
        .
        The most probable version by you, Boyan, is not even considered: An attempt by the Ukrainian air defense to bring down board No. 1 with Putin (who at one echelon separated for several minutes from the injured Boeing over Warsaw), but the Boeing was shot down by mistake.
      3. pytar
        pytar 28 June 2020 16: 22 New
        -5
        The most probable version by you, Boyan, is not even considered: An attempt by the Ukrainian air defense to bring down board No. 1 with Putin (who at one echelon separated for several minutes from the injured Boeing over Warsaw), but the Boeing was shot down by mistake.

        Dear Vladimir, I consider this version unlikely. For several reasons!
        1. The sale of B1 with Putin would have promised Ukraine unimaginable problems. This would be an open manifestation on state terrorism. Terrorize your people, as it’s possible, but I’m not able to imagine what is possible. In short - benefits are much less than harm.
        2. Such a probability is guaranteed to be taken into account by the services responsible for the safety of the first person of the Russian Federation. There are no fools sitting there! If they considered such a scenario possible, the B1 would fly exactly on a different route.
        3. I am 100% sure that the B1 is equipped with the most advanced protection systems, which at the highest level protect the sides, from all possible threats. There is more risk for that madman who would decide on such than for the GDP itself.
      4. demo
        demo 29 June 2020 16: 37 New
        0
        Point 3, Boyan.
        Nobody knows for sure how and with what board No. 1 is equipped.
        And those who know do not look at this site. And the secret data is not voiced.

        Let's hypothetically consider the destruction of our president’s aircraft.
        Shot down.
        Error, they say. We are Ukrainians. We have such a national trait - to shoot down passenger planes.
        What's next?
        The declaration of war to Ukraine by Russia?
        Or without an announcement immediately "Caliber" in Kiev?
        The absence of the head of state at the helm sharply reduces managerial opportunities.
        If there was such an idea, then the main persons involved in this operation, from Ukraine, until that moment were somewhere in Rome, in Berlin, in Warsaw.
        Just in case, as they say.
        Minor figures naturally sit in Kiev.
        We open the Internet and look at who and what did on the day of death, or for a couple of days.
        If everyone was in Kiev, then - the version, so-so.
      5. pytar
        pytar 29 June 2020 17: 48 New
        -2
        Let's hypothetically consider the destruction of our president’s aircraft.

        Do not waste time on empty discussions! He just did not fly over Ukraine from the beginning of the conflict! This is a fact, a hypothesis meaningless.
  • pytar
    pytar 28 June 2020 18: 33 New
    -2
    bring down board No. 1 with Putin (who, on the same level, separated for several minutes with the injured Boeing over Warsaw), but by mistake they shot down a Boeing.

    By the way I will give one more explanation so that there are no more questions in connection with this speculation!
    Ukrainian air defense even if Pts wanted, could not bring down board number 1 from Putin. He could not become a target, since he did not fly over Ukraine. The plane’s wallpaper came with a slight time difference in an almost identical route to Warsaw, and then the routes diverged. Board number 1 flies to Sheremetyevo through Belarus, and MH17 to the south, over Donbas, further to Baku and Kuala Lumpur. Like that:


    Not surprisingly, many believe in such absurd fakes! On Yandex, it was replicated in ... well, see for yourself ...

    It is more surprising that so many people have not learned geography lessons at school. belay
  • Icarus
    Icarus 28 June 2020 23: 30 New
    +3
    Dear Boyan. The version I have indicated has the right to exist with the others you have proposed equally. And whether it is unlikely or not, it is a value judgment, until the evidence has been examined to confirm or refute it.
    Does it even occur to you that the Ukrainian side “possessed” at that time (“well-wishers of Russia” threw the countries, its own foreign intelligence service blundered, etc.) very “secret” information about the route No. 1 of the RF side? In this case (based on false information), they could easily confuse aircraft. Why was Buki at all in the area with the punishers, and 9 radar stations were operating at that time, in the absence of aviation by the DPR?
    You contradict yourself. They are 100% sure of the impossibility of shooting down Board No. 1 due to the presence on it of protection systems "against all possible threats." And at the same time, you think that the special services of the Russian Federation took into account "such a scenario" and should not have laid a route through the airspace of Ukraine.
    Special services of Ukraine could well not exclude the passage of Board No. 1 of the Russian Federation through the airspace of Ukraine, since at that time the airspace was not closed for international flights.
    Why did you lay out a map (which does not have a globe grid (latitude and meridian)), on which the route No. 1 from Warsaw to Moscow is drawn? Did you (or the Ukrainian side) know for sure, for example, at 12 o’clock on July 17, 2014 that Putin was flying from Latin America through Warsaw to Moscow, and not to any other city in Russia. In addition, at that time, Rossiya Airlines had several ships in the air with various routes from Brazil to Russia. And in the air, Putin could several times change their route depending on the tasks, so the Ukrainian special services didn’t have such a picture at the time of the disaster.
    In addition, the downing of Board No. 1 of the Russian Federation would not threaten Ukraine with any consequences from the West, since all the same, their media and all kinds of tribunals would announce that Buk did this from the territory controlled by the DPR.
  • pytar
    pytar 29 June 2020 09: 24 New
    -2
    Dear Boyan. The version I have indicated has the right to exist with the others you have proposed equally. And whether it is unlikely or not, it is a value judgment, until the evidence has been examined to confirm or refute it.

    Dear Vladimir, each version has the right to exist. Including lightning strike, or UFO. The level of probability is still less. And yet there is no evidence in their favor. Your thoughts are based only on assumptions.
    Does it even occur to you that the Ukrainian side “possessed” at that time (“well-wishers of Russia” threw the countries, its own foreign intelligence service blundered, etc.) very “secret” information about the route No. 1 of the RF side?

    It doesn’t work that way. All flights are pre-agreed, traffic is monitored and controlled continuously. In principle, possible inconsistencies / deliberate or by mistake / between civil services and the military, and disasters caused by dispatchers sometimes occur.
    Why was Buki at all in the area with the punishers, and 9 radar stations were operating at that time, in the absence of DPR aviation?

    I followed closely the case. The investigation and the prosecutor’s office examined all sorts of versions. For each there is a conclusion. Airborne radars, work on tracking objects in the adjacent territory of Russia, the DNR does not have an air force.
    You contradict yourself. They are 100% sure of the impossibility of shooting down Board No. 1 due to the presence on it of protection systems "against all possible threats."

    You are reading inattentively! I am 100% sure that the board number 1 is protected at the highest level. But he never said that it was impossible to bring him down!
    And at the same time, you think that the special services of the Russian Federation took into account "such a scenario" and should not have laid a route through the airspace of Ukraine ..

    Board number 1 from the beginning of the conflict did not fly over Ukraine. I did not fly at that time either. Although there are Ukrainian air defense systems, which theoretically can get it over Belarus.
    Why did you lay out a map (not having a grid of the globe (latitude and meridian) on which the route of Board No. 1 from Warsaw to Moscow is drawn?

    Grids do not change the situation, although they give a better view. Put them and see for yourself.
    Did you (or the Ukrainian side) know reliably, for example, at 12 o’clock on July 17, 2014 that Putin flies from Latin America through Warsaw to Moscow, and not to any other city in Russia .... And even in the air, Putin could change your route several times depending on the tasks at hand.

    Dear, all flight parameters and routes are known and controlled. They are standardized. This is similar to the movement of trailers on a multi-lane, multi-level highway. Putin can’t change anything, especially while in foreign airspace, without the coordination and permission of the air traffic controllers. This is not to drive cars around Moscow ... Look for info, IKAO, etc. Learn a lot of interesting things. hi
  • demo
    demo 29 June 2020 16: 28 New
    0
    Board number 1 flies to Sheremetyevo.
    Amendment Boyan.
    Board number 1 is deployed at the Moscow Vnukovo airport in a special government terminal "Vnukovo-2."
    This is from "the other side of Moscow.
    Although the role does not change.
  • pytar
    pytar 29 June 2020 17: 56 New
    -3
    Forget the tales of the board 1. Read this article, it in the summary gives an idea of ​​the real situation.
    https://meduza.io/feature/2020/03/11/v-niderlandah-idet-sud-po-delu-o-krushenii-boinga-pod-donetskom-kogo-sudyat-v-chem-imenno-obvinyayut-i-chto-otvechaet-rossiya
  • demo
    demo 29 June 2020 19: 59 New
    +1
    I read it.
    Ну и что?
    Which of what is written there was not discussed only with an iron and lawn mower?
    Have you read it yourself?
    How many assumptions and gaps.
    Yes, in the "non-polite" Ukrainian court, such a case would have been sent for further investigation.

    One question and close the topic.
    Why did the Ukrainian side methodically fire several days with large-caliber shells at the place where the wreckage of the plane lay?
    After all, Ukrainians were most interested in the fact that the “guilt” of LDNR and the Russian Federation would be obvious and provable!
    Take at least one bolt, move at least one part - this would be interpreted as an attempt to hide.

    You live in your own world, the world of an established paradigm - Russia is always to blame for everything.
    I have a different approach - there is no two-legged people (I can’t even name them people) meaner than the West and its satellites (don’t take it personally)
    And the most brutal crimes against the Indians of the British come to mind while suppressing the sepoy uprising - the shooting of people from cannons. Fighting weavers in India - chopping off hands. Sitting on the Chinese opium.
    Americans are excellent students who have repeatedly surpassed their teachers.
    And by deceit, and by cruelty.

    I do not doubt for a second that the plane was shot down by a Ukrainian missile.
    Who gave the order - Americans to Ukrainians, or Ukrainians themselves came up with a proposal - it does not matter.
    The heirs of Melnik and Bandera - the Turchinovs, Avakovs, Yatsenyuki and others - are sadists and cutthroats, like their praise of "heroes."

    Your perseverance in this, many questions will lead to the idea that you are pursuing others, far from the search for truth and the triumph of justice, purpose.
    Finish it.
    I advise you again.
  • pytar
    pytar 29 June 2020 20: 46 New
    -1
    Van, you forced me! Let admins not be angry, but the truth is more important!

    Direct recognition! With a bunch more in addition, with which the investigation operates!
    And so, tragic mistakes happen in war! What should I have done in the eyes of the DPR and the Russian Federation immediately, as it became clear that the MH17 had been shot down?
    1. DNR-Declare that there was a tragic mistake! Accuse Ukraine, and then with good reason that it intentionally with criminal intent sent over a combat zone a civilian plane with passengers on board! At the same time, Ukrainian aviation provoked air defense of the militia and carried out barbaric bombings over civilians of Donbass! State that the guilty of the militia, arrested and are under investigation! It guarantees that after finding out their guilt, they will be sent under the military tribunal of the republic! Expresses deep condolences to relatives and declares readiness to negotiate with their representatives for discussing the issue of compensation payments!
    2. Russia - To declare that according to her information as a result of a criminal provocation by Ukraine, the air defense of the militia on a tragic mistake shot down a civilian plane. Demand from the DNI to immediately establish and punish the perpetrators! Demand from the international community to condemn the Ukrainian authorities for their actions! Declare that Russia is ready to become a successor and guarantor for the payment of compensation!
    DNR is not an internationally recognized entity. No one can demand from him the extradition of the perpetrators or any other actions. Oddly enough, at some stage, this tragic incident would give the republics the opportunity to be legalized formally. Another ... to the question, where did Buk come from in the DPR? Yes, they bought illegally from about Abkhatsia! Disassembled, transported by sea, collected and defended from enemy aircraft!
    The Russian Federation would take control of the situation, would become the leading one in its development! Iran recently did it and ... everyone made a noise, and then calmed down.
    You see, Van, a recognized mistake is not a crime! Crime becomes when you start the gate, cheat and slip away!
    Your perseverance in this, many questions will lead to the idea that you are pursuing others, far from the search for truth and the triumph of justice, purpose.

    Let people think what they want. I think that power is in truth: whoever has the truth is stronger, Van! I know that your advice is quite friendly, well-intentioned. I am finishing my participation in the topic. I apologize if someone offended me. hi
  • demo
    demo 29 June 2020 22: 31 New
    +2
    Boyan. Here you have indefatigable energy.
    Vanity, in Russian.
    Not only did I watch this video, but I was also forced to open the site of this Life News.
    I'll start with the second.
    An information channel that reprints or simply broadcasts other people's news.
    Most likely without any authentication.
    Second.
    More precisely the first.
    What is the video about?
    Militias said.
    What are the militias? Whose blood are they?
    They stated that they shot down AN 26 of the Ukrainian Air Force.
    Was the official statement by the authorities of the self-proclaimed LPR?
    I did not see him.
    The Air Force, the New York Times and dozens of other world media information media daily give mountains of lies and untested information.
    The opinion of Trump (just in case, that purgomet - that is, the distributor of fakes) - American and world information systems is a fake news.

    And did you believe what this blonde said?
    She is a doll.
    And the level of the source of information did not stir you up?
    We have such a confidence indicator on our site - one grandmother said OBS.
    So it is here.
    I didn’t think you could get into such a cheap divorce.
    You just look at those who give information, what information they give, what they rely on in their reports.
    Even in the age of total lies, one can understand the level of competence and the level of truthfulness.

    I already regretted visiting the site.
    It was dinner. There was vodka. And here is such a disgrace without me.
    Все.
    I disconnect.
  • Icarus
    Icarus 29 June 2020 23: 03 New
    +1
    Van, you forced me! Let admins not be angry, but the truth is more important!
    For information: to identify a journalist’s comment with the truth (facts) is at least not smart. I am sorry for you Boyan, you are not objective in this matter, therefore I am stopping the debate with you.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 30 June 2020 12: 25 New
    0
    Quote: pytar
    Another ... to the question, where did Buk come from in the DPR? Yes, they bought illegally from about Abkhatsia!

    Stop lying, because this was not, and if it were, then the Americans would immediately calculate the coordinates and the origin of this Buk with a trial inclusion of its radar. You Gabrovian are illiterate in the work of the orbiting satellite intelligence systems of NATO and the USA, that’s why you’re hanging on your ears about this resource:
    Life Channel (2013—2017)
    The owner of the license for broadcasting the channel was the company Media Content LLC, whose beneficiaries were Aram Gabrelyanov and oil trader Surgutex[3].

    As for the Life News news portal, this commercial organization has nothing to do with the official websites of Russia and the fact that they refer to some calls from the DPR only proves that the special services of Ukraine, which prepared the provocation in advance, specially organized them so that hang a crime on the militias. But you think too primitively, and it’s hard for you to understand how all this is really organized with the help of American intelligence agencies. Watch a movie about Snowden - maybe this will tell you at least something.
  • Tuzik
    Tuzik 28 June 2020 15: 09 New
    -5
    Boyan, you are a fat plus, chop here alone against the wool. smile It is always interesting to read different opinions.
  • pytar
    pytar 28 June 2020 16: 30 New
    -3
    Thanks for the support Andrew! good I look at disputes as an opportunity to learn more. Look at the situation from different angles! After all, everyone has their own truth, but the truth is the same ... I don’t have a goal to “win” or “howl right”, whatever! There are people with a complex of low value. They turn to rudeness when they have no more arguments. This does not affect my mood! drinks In fact, their inadequate reaction confirms the correctness of my thoughts! bully
  • Tuzik
    Tuzik 28 June 2020 16: 48 New
    -2
    I personally do not care who shot down the plane, people can’t be returned. I thought about something else, how does the one who pressed the button feel, I would not like to be in his place. You can burn in alcohol, and that will help little.
  • pytar
    pytar 28 June 2020 18: 48 New
    -2
    I thought about something else, how does the one who pressed the button feel, I would not like to be in his place.

    And I was thinking about it! If that person has at least a gram of conscience, he must be unbearably hard. The fact of pleading guilty, repenting for acts, complicates the psychological situation even more. To admit a mistake, to beg forgiveness, as it removes part of the guilt. And silence, attempts to hide, turns her into a deliberate crime!
    You can burn in alcohol, and that will help little.

    Probably better suicides than tormented by threats of conscience. If it is, of course ...
  • Leon68
    Leon68 28 June 2020 22: 33 New
    +5
    So look, in that case, at the pilot Voloshin
  • Paranoid50
    Paranoid50 27 June 2020 23: 45 New
    +5
    Quote: pytar
    Too much evidence

    laughing laughing laughing The trouble is the trouble ... And these are the same. wassat
    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 28 June 2020 02: 56 New
      +4
      Paranoid50 (Alexander) Yesterday, 23:45 PM
      +3
      Quote: pytar
      Too much evidence

      laughing laughing laughing The trouble is poor ... And these there too. wassat
      So it, pytar (Boyan Ivanov), fulfills his grannies. Hisses here, like water in a pan. bully
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 28 June 2020 02: 44 New
    +4
    pytar (Boyan Ivanov) Yesterday, 20:31 PM
    -22
    Hi Wang! hi Unfortunately, the situation is not at all in favor of the accused ... Too much evidencewhile they cannot be ignored.
    laughing laughing tongue laughing and which specifically?
  • Crimean partisan 1974
    Crimean partisan 1974 28 June 2020 10: 05 New
    +9
    in the world no one doubts ....... in the world. sorry me. in the ass are filmed legally. heads are cut and states are turned into rubbish with enthusiasm, ... this is not an indicator .... the indicator is that if the militia really had a BUK at that time and experts who could work on it, then at that moment no one would be there flew and tragedy would not have happened. .... do not confuse a hunter’s transport brought down by landing from MANPADS where there isn’t much intelligence and the plane is at a level of 10 km, and this tragedy is not just Ukrainian headache as with a carcass in 2001. this is a planned operation and it’s been clear to everyone sane in the world how long ears stick out ... and suckers .... well, at least in the eyes of us ...
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 June 2020 19: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: pytar
    In the world, few doubt that it was the militia that brought down the Boeing. Tragic mistakes are made in the war.

    Well, then Hitler was a normal guy until 1939, and not bad even before 1944. No one condemned German genocide until 1944, although they knew about him. and so yes .... and the Skripals were poisoned, and the Boeing was shot down .. rockers from the bilingcat will not lie wassat
    in fact, Buk was not found and the militia did not have any evidence of its presence. Ukrainian rocket, no one conducted an investigation into the actions of Ukrainian crews in the area of ​​the downed plane.
    Russia can simply ignore the results of this booth that they call the court and ignore its decision. By the way, after the adoption of the provisions on the supremacy of Russian laws over international, legally.
    as you understand, the fact that Western society is completely under the influence of Western propaganda is not for Russia or LDNR the basis for taking the blame. wink
    if they really need, the Balts can be appointed guilty. they will agree for very sovereign yes
  • Civil
    Civil 27 June 2020 17: 53 New
    +8
    1. There is no objective data.
    2. In vain it all started.
    1. orionvitt
      orionvitt 27 June 2020 22: 09 New
      16
      Quote: Civil
      In vain it all started.

      Why is it in vain? West profited immediately. Even the wreckage did not have time to fall, and sanctions have already been imposed on Russia.
  • Ragnar Lodbrok
    Ragnar Lodbrok 27 June 2020 17: 00 New
    31
    But who would doubt that there will be a trial, and not an impartial court ...
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 27 June 2020 17: 08 New
      21
      Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
      But who would doubt that there will be a trial, and not an impartial court ...

      Regardless of the decision of the court, everyone knows that the militia did not have the means to bring down the aircraft at such a height.
      1. Ragnar Lodbrok
        Ragnar Lodbrok 27 June 2020 17: 15 New
        23
        Yes, it doesn’t matter to all of them there, the guilty parties were immediately appointed! A beech, which was driving along the territory controlled by Ukraine at that time, testimony ... They weren’t interested in anything at once ... Farce, not a court. All this would be ridiculous, if it weren’t so sad ...
        1. Terenin
          Terenin 27 June 2020 17: 18 New
          +6
          Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
          All this would be funny if it were not so sad ...

          And, even that is enough for them, if only sadness was with us.
          1. Clear
            Clear 27 June 2020 17: 33 New
            +7
            Quote: Terenin
            Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
            All this would be funny if it were not so sad ...

            And, even that is enough for them, if only sadness was with us.

            Fear of Russia has haunted Western civilization for more than one hundred years, and reacts to it in its usual way - aggression.
  • Nikolay Ivanov_5
    Nikolay Ivanov_5 27 June 2020 17: 08 New
    19
    Luther Martin

    Lies always meander like a snake, which is never straight, whether it creeps or lies alone; only when she is dead is she straight and does not pretend.
    1. paco.soto
      paco.soto 27 June 2020 17: 19 New
      +5
      Lies always meander like a snake, which is never straight, whether it creeps or lies alone; only when she is dead is she straight and does not pretend. ©
      Like definitely from me.
    2. Clear
      Clear 27 June 2020 17: 39 New
      +9
      Quote: Nikolai Ivanov_5
      Luther Martin

      Lies always meander like a snake, which is never straight, whether it creeps or lies alone; only when she is dead is she straight and does not pretend.

      Isn't it time to force her stop !? stop
      About this, Luther Martin said:
      "Lies are like a snowball: the more it rolls, the more it gets."
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 27 June 2020 17: 08 New
    +5
    another nonsense
    someone, someone, said something, when it is not known where it is not known how the record was made, generally history is silent
    1. Nikolay Ivanov_5
      Nikolay Ivanov_5 27 June 2020 17: 18 New
      +7
      they have all the high-likly there
  • Klingon
    Klingon 27 June 2020 17: 13 New
    18
    and this X48 is that special in military technology? immediately the type of air defense on the go so defined, or first rummaged in the internet? but where are the data from the radar which boards flew that day in this area in general? where are the dispatchers' negotiations with the civilian side, what the hell did he do there, why wasn’t he provided with a safe corridor? where were the brains of pilots who deliberately flew into the combat zone, why didn’t they request a backup route? you can still ask a dozen questions to the court
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 27 June 2020 17: 48 New
      +9
      Quote: Klingon
      where were the brains of pilots who deliberately flew into the combat zone,

      The pilots had brains, but no one deigned to send warnings, and, as always, radio communications disappeared at that moment, and the radars were on prevention. The whole "kyrdyk", and precisely at the time of the attack on the Boeing, really started a cheburashka.
    2. New
      New Year day 27 June 2020 20: 46 New
      -2
      Quote: Klingon
      where the dispatchers are negotiating with the civilian side,

      newspaper "Komsomolskaya Pravda"
      09.09.14
      17-00
      "13:08:00 Malaysian one seven: Dnepropetrovsk tower, Malaysian one seven, flight level 300.

      Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower, good afternoon, welcome

      Malaysian one seven: Malaysian one seven

      The following is a fragment of telephone conversations:

      13:19:21 Dnepropetrovsk: Yes

      Rostov: Dnepropetrovsk, this is Rostov. Can you set a course for the Malaysian (liner) to Rostov at RND? And then ... "
      https://www.kp.ru/daily/26279/3157475/
      1. Cristall
        Cristall 27 June 2020 22: 19 New
        -2
        Quote: Silvestr
        Rostov: Dnepropetrovsk, this is Rostov. Can you set a course for the Malaysian (liner) to Rostov at RND? And then ... "

        already in several Russian reports even audio has these talks. And here is a miracle - no Petrenko is there. Male voice from the Dnieper and male from Rostov.
        Records and translations have long been everywhere. Including in audio format.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 27 June 2020 17: 21 New
    +5
    This is not even funny. Records of some telephone conversations are the basis of the accusation of a terrible tragedy ... And of course, did you conduct an examination of these conversations? And the records were provided by completely uninvolved SBU? Did they write everyone like that? Or specifically at this moment began to write these very people? A lot of questions ...
    1. Holgerton
      Holgerton 27 June 2020 17: 58 New
      +3
      So without talking on the phone that day there was news on some republican channels that the militia shot down a Ukrainian transporter, even on the first channel they reported it. And at the end of the day a message came that a Boeing 777 was shot down ...
    2. Poetry
      Poetry 27 June 2020 18: 52 New
      +7
      At some point, Malaysia intensified, but then it suddenly disappeared from the radar. Apparently the older brother of the United States said something like: you’ll say you’ll suffer, after which Malaysia was blown away. But in fact this is their board, it was necessary to pull the court to Kuala Lumpur. Sad
  • paco.soto
    paco.soto 27 June 2020 17: 25 New
    +7
    Earlier, prosecutor Theis Berger stated that the prosecution has a witness who allegedly saw "four soldiers in tank helmets", ©
    With a smile: ya "supposedly I don’t believe" it’s in the part with helmets outside the movement during exercises, just in case
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 27 June 2020 17: 27 New
    11
    The militias launched the Buk missile launcher from their knees (they didn’t have a complex). And before that, the militia, by swearing requests, forced the Shiro-Skakuas dispatcher to direct the plane into the reach of the Skakuas air defense, knowing that the “Tseeuropeytsy” would not shoot. And they shot down the civilian side as part of the strategy "to spite my mom frostbite ears." wassat
    The Dutch are clearly abusing the “substances” on an industrial scale.
    But if seriously, it’s already higher than the roof of the grounds for accusing the “investigative group” of defamation and violation of the inquiry procedure.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 27 June 2020 17: 36 New
      +5
      Yes, the drug which the Dutch prosecutors are scamming for is really evil .... Parishes go mom don't worry.
    2. Clear
      Clear 27 June 2020 18: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: stock buildbat
      But if seriously, it’s already higher than the roof of the grounds for accusing the “investigative group” of defamation and violation of the inquiry procedure.

      They should be tried in Russia, and a lawyer should be appointed with a diploma received for "studying" by distance.
  • sabakina
    sabakina 27 June 2020 17: 28 New
    +1
    It is also reported that the witness allegedly saw the Buk air defense system driving along the road from Snezhnoye to Saur-Mogila.

  • K-50
    K-50 27 June 2020 17: 28 New
    +9
    Dutch prosecutors continue to claim that in the summer of 2014, Boeing MH17 was shot down by militia using the Buk anti-aircraft system. In favor of its version, the prosecutor's office provided a record of telephone conversations allegedly recorded at the scene.

    Only a dumb western man can be rubbed into the brain, that in the event of such an emergency they would be discussed by telephone lol
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 27 June 2020 17: 35 New
    12
    Clowning continues.
    But didn’t the Ukrainians accidentally control Saur-Tomb?
    And why satellite imagery why not? By the way, the fact that it was allegedly at the states suggests that this area was tightly controlled. By the way, as in the case of a sales liner near Tehran.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 27 June 2020 17: 45 New
      10
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      And why satellite imagery why not?

      Phone records were found, but satellite surveys were not found. All this is no longer vague doubts, but simply "linden and crap."
  • ximkim
    ximkim 27 June 2020 17: 35 New
    -24
    The court will sort it out and find the guilty. Guilty will receive with full.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 27 June 2020 18: 29 New
      12
      Quote: ximkim
      The court will sort it out and find the guilty. Guilty will receive with full.

      It's a delusion. The court will not look for the guilty, because they live in Ukraine, and they were ordered to wet Russia long before they received any evidence. The fact that this was a farce was understandable from the first days of the investigation, if only because so far Ukraine has not submitted records of dispatcher negotiations, and what goals their radars were monitoring at the time of the Boeing’s flight. Everything else can no longer be discussed - the concealment of evidence against the Ukrainian side is so obvious that it’s even funny to refute it.
      1. Clear
        Clear 27 June 2020 18: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: ccsr
        and they ordered the watering of Russia long before they received any evidence.

        Well, what doubt can be.
        B. Abama July 18, 2014
        “We don’t have time for propaganda, we don’t have time for games,” B. Abama was determined, speaking in his speech about sanctions against Russia, which, according to him, should affect only the economy and citizens of Russia. The American president did not hide the fact that his country was ready to escalate sanctions against Moscow against the background of the tragedy of a Malaysian plane in the sky over Ukraine.
      2. New
        New Year day 27 June 2020 20: 50 New
        -3
        Quote: ccsr
        if only because so far Ukraine has not submitted records of dispatcher negotiations

        "Moscow's comsomolets"
        09.09.2014 at 15:28

        https://www.mk.ru/incident/2014/09/09/rasshifrovka-peregovorov-dispetcherov-vo-vremya-krusheniya-malayziyskogo-boinga-my-ikh-razvernuli-oni-podtverdili-i-.html
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 28 June 2020 10: 52 New
          +5
          Quote: Silvestr
          "Moscow's comsomolets"
          09.09.2014/15/28 at XNUMX:XNUMX,

          Read carefully what is written there:
          Negotiations of Ukrainian and Russian dispatchers are announced, passing immediately after the fall of the liner in the Donetsk region.

          And where are the negotiations of the dispatchers on the entire flight path of the aircraft, both the military and the air defense and air forces of Ukraine? This board was monitored by several structures, and in order to get the full picture it is necessary to analyze all the negotiations of different dispatchers.
      3. Cristall
        Cristall 27 June 2020 22: 31 New
        -11
        Quote: ccsr
        The fact that this is a farce was clear from the first days of the investigation, if only because until now Ukraine has not submitted records of dispatcher negotiations

        Of course I didn’t. Yes, if they had not provided, colleagues from Rostov would have provided immediately.

        Quote: ccsr
        and what targets their radar was tracking at the time of the Boeing’s flight.

        were captured / under repair, as documented by the report. (Primary)

        in general, no one showed primary data at the beginning.
    2. Sergey M. Karasev
      Sergey M. Karasev 27 June 2020 20: 14 New
      +3
      Quote: ximkim
      The court will sort it out and find the guilty. Guilty will receive with full.

      It's sarcasm?
      1. ximkim
        ximkim 28 June 2020 16: 19 New
        -1
        Not. And not to humor, so the carousel will spin after a court decision.
        1. Sergey M. Karasev
          Sergey M. Karasev 28 June 2020 16: 30 New
          +3
          This court, rather, will find the quadrature of the circle, and not the real culprits. And to reach those whom he will declare guilty, his hands are short. And the times are not the same ...
          In short, this is an empty empty booth, not a court! stop
  • Tatyana Sementsova
    Tatyana Sementsova 27 June 2020 17: 36 New
    11
    And in the circus arena the Galandian prosecutor’s office !!! The highlight of the program is witness X 48, who saw everything !!!!! If I saw four tankers, then there must have been a dog nearby, and her name was Buk !!!! What missiles are you talking about then?
    And how long will these clowns be dishonored?
    Here it is --- EUROPE !!!!!!
    1. Shiden
      Shiden 28 June 2020 13: 06 New
      -2
      Sorry if I disappoint you a little, you have ever ridden an armored car. Here, when you ride without a tank helmet, your brains may go to the right place. And the second difference between “BUK” and “CUBA” can then the irony in the comments disappears.
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 27 June 2020 17: 39 New
    10
    If the trips of Bukov 156 air defense missile systems of the air force in the vicinity of the crash site of the liner, the court studied And the question of flights of the Air Force aircraft on that day?
    I think no.
    That's what the price means to the court.
  • Poetry
    Poetry 27 June 2020 17: 40 New
    +3
    There, two men in sweatshirts were passing by and a harmonious harmonist. And what?! They arranged a circus, clowns.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 27 June 2020 17: 41 New
    +2
    Yeah, four in tank helmets, dragging a rocket across the sky.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 27 June 2020 17: 43 New
    +6
    In favor of its version, the prosecutor's office provided a record of telephone conversations allegedly recorded at the scene.
    And how to tie telephone conversations locally, and according to the affiliation of the negotiators. There, they submitted passport details and location, and then they negotiated. Soon, rumors will be proof. (They say there will be no more rumors, there are rumors that gossip will be banned.) Yes, and exactly how they filtered out precisely these people, and even after 6 years. In Ukraine, in a week you will not filter anything.
  • Ham
    Ham 27 June 2020 17: 56 New
    +3
    they didn’t “provide evidence”; they submitted persimmons from the Internet ...
    which they passed to the SBU;)
    any lawyer-trainee will not leave stone unturned from such "evidence base"
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 27 June 2020 18: 21 New
    +5
    We need to ask the Dutch a simple question: who and why changed the flight path of a Boeing? And that’s all ...
  • imobile2008
    imobile2008 27 June 2020 18: 42 New
    -10
    Wrong protection chosen. From the very beginning it’s clear that the militias shot down, but the Ukrainian leadership sent it. Yes, there is one hundred percent fault of the leadership of Ukraine.
  • 123456789
    123456789 27 June 2020 18: 48 New
    +3
    Is fecit cui prodest

    look for someone profitable
    1. ender
      ender 27 June 2020 19: 46 New
      0
      good question.
      you can ask me, but the death of Sergei Zakharov - who benefits her?
  • jekasimf
    jekasimf 27 June 2020 19: 04 New
    +2
    Well, let’s say the militia squeezed out by Ukrov BUK were shot down. What does Russia have to do with it? Everything happened on the territory of Ukraine, the airspace was not closed. 6 years of sanctions against Russia?
  • PValery53
    PValery53 27 June 2020 19: 17 New
    +1
    They have to “add” to the accusation the recordings of conversations of attendants on the mound.
  • tralmaster
    tralmaster 27 June 2020 20: 17 New
    0
    If Russia didn’t hammer, then sanctions should be lifted in this regard. This starburst will not allow. So the Dutch will have to lie to the end.
  • Metallurg_2
    Metallurg_2 27 June 2020 20: 42 New
    +1
    Highly-likely is the queen of evidence.
    The papal inquisitors (and in no way Vyshinsky, who is credited with the famous phrase about confession) - turn over in tombs with envy.
  • 1536
    1536 27 June 2020 21: 53 New
    0
    "I scored a shell in a cannon tight ..." These Dutch people at least had a conscience, mocking the memory of those who died in this provocation. With the same success it can be stated that the helmets on the "tankers" were American, and the rocket was fired at a secret Dutch factory somewhere in Eastern Europe, for example, in the "chess" republic, they were pointed manually, shot at the sound, aimed at the eye, and hit . Okay, the Dutch or the Netherlanders, who like it, are fooled and brought to the position of dumb people, but more than 7 billion people live on earth. And some shket with a German surname seeks to make them full of fools .. mi.
  • svoit
    svoit 27 June 2020 21: 54 New
    +1
    however, the prosecution emphasizes that on that day, except for flight MH17,

    Lies and does not blush, on this day there were at least several flights, maybe about a dozen, all data is publicly available
    With this launch, the Donbass militia tried to bring down a Ukrainian military aircraft, as evidenced by the record of negotiations

    well, that’s okay, we’ll agree on that, there was no intentionality and that means guilt too.
    1. ender
      ender 28 June 2020 08: 29 New
      +2
      there was no intentionality and that means guilt too


      Efremova can I let go?
  • Lena Petrova
    Lena Petrova 27 June 2020 22: 17 New
    +2
    Hans Christian Andersen was deprived of the laurels of the main storyteller by the British, with a story about the Skripals, then Rodchenkov, with a roulade about doping, and now the Dutch, with a fresh parable - МН17.
    1. Dmitry10SPb
      Dmitry10SPb 28 June 2020 02: 26 New
      -3
      That is not all. German prosecutors accused the Russians of political murder. Montenegrin - in an attempted coup. Bulgarian ... And so on. If this is a fairy tale, then obviously not with a happy ending.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 27 June 2020 23: 20 New
    +3
    I have evidence, but I will not show it, believe me by word.
    I think this is a NEW PAGE OF EUROPEAN JURISPRUDENCE, it is such a time bomb that it will be laid down now that, based on this precedent, it will be possible to concoct any case
  • Kerensky
    Kerensky 27 June 2020 23: 23 New
    -9
    Why are we silent about our “most humane court in the world”? Which "... guided by a deep inner conviction .." decides what to accept into the evidence base and what not ..
    One says that he signs 7.000 documents a day, the second - that Kamaz threw money to him while he went for bread. And they all nod their heads and shake their epaulets - yes, it happens ...
    Yes, the hungry people studied with us!
  • Mahony
    Mahony 27 June 2020 23: 27 New
    -13
    I hope these four boomerang will return for the killed people ..
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 27 June 2020 23: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: Mahony
      I hope these four boomerang will return for the killed people ..


      Well, if you think sensibly - a boomerang will fly by these four.
      Either in the real contractor, or in the one who gave the order.
      Nobody put Manstein with Guderian on the count.
    2. kot28.ru
      kot28.ru 26 July 2020 04: 50 New
      +1
      So there are more than four there: Potroshenko and his Caudle, plus the curators from behind the puddle, and those who carried out the launch!
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 27 June 2020 23: 39 New
    +2
    No, well, like a former air defense worker. And there is. We will discuss the situation on the mobile phones with the boys, and then a volley of all ... guns. And it was like that with Powers. And with a South Korean Boeing. I get this machine with two rockets. And I - with one. What nonsense?
  • Schilda
    Schilda 27 June 2020 23: 54 New
    0
    we’ll not wait much, I think the guilty parties have already been appointed in this matter. No one will understand the fault is not to blame, the shot didn’t shoot ... the wretched is now fashionable, as the witness told me, he read about it on Instagram .... well and again everything is proved. Ukrainians are glad and we are satisfied ....
  • Indifferent
    Indifferent 28 June 2020 00: 16 New
    +1
    Right now we will accept the amendments to the Constitution and then they easily went with their court Drang NAH .... western! NAH ... this is the direction!
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 28 June 2020 10: 48 New
      +1
      Right now we will accept the amendments to the Constitution and then they easily went with their court Drang NAH .... western! NAH ... this is the direction!

      It's not gonna go. After all, after the trial, they will begin to seize the foreign property of Russia as material compensation.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 28 June 2020 01: 09 New
    +3
    It’s normal to appoint guilty parties through negotiations.

    For example, as the court decided in almost a neighboring country:

    The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) acquitted Swiss rider Nadia Peter Steiner in the case of a positive doping test taken from her horse.

    It is reported by Horse and Hound. In 2017, after winning one of the competitions, tramadol was discovered in the horse's body.

    The rider was able to prove in court that the banned drug was in the doping test of the horse by accident.

    According to the official version, the horse ate hay, which one of the representatives of the athlete’s team urinated on. This man admitted that he actually used tramadol as an anesthetic.
  • pexotinec
    pexotinec 28 June 2020 02: 27 New
    +1
    Everyone is trying to suck with a finger, but it does not work.
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 28 June 2020 02: 33 New
    -3
    Unfortunately, in the West, a series of evidence has been collected, voiced and filed to the case, which indicates that the Boeing was shot down by militias. Of course, it can be said that this evidence is false, but ... neither Russia, nor the DPR presented any sensible refutations and their counter-evidence. They put their heads in the sand and pretend that nothing happened. Which is perhaps better than all the evidence, it shows who actually shot down the Boeing. And ostrich politics is a mistake. Even if the Boeing were actually shot down by militias, no one canceled the criminal raids of Ukrainian aviation on residential areas of Donetsk, which launched the process of creating air defense in the DPR.
    1. Alexander Seklitsky
      Alexander Seklitsky 28 June 2020 19: 10 New
      0
      Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
      in the West, a series of evidence has been collected, voiced and filed to the case, which indicates that the Boeing was shot down by militias.

      To begin with, where did the militia complex BUK come from ???
      Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
      They put their heads in the sand and pretend that nothing happened.

      They have already argued many times, made a full-scale experiment, but this West does not want to consider our arguments
      Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
      Which is perhaps better than all the evidence, it shows who actually shot down the Boeing.

      LLC and this is generally a masterpiece of evidence belay
  • Brigadier
    Brigadier 28 June 2020 03: 35 New
    0
    "Earlier, prosecutor Theis Berger stated that the prosecution has a witness who allegedly saw "four soldiers in tank helmets", as well as the launch of the Buk air defense missile itself""

    Interestingly, there was a full charge of smokers before a court hearing?
    Holland ... Marijuana, weed and jambs ...
    Slightly poked them! lol
  • tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 28 June 2020 03: 41 New
    +1
    "Highly-like" - the rest is no longer important !!!
  • Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 28 June 2020 05: 25 New
    +4
    Boeing is a "sacred sacrifice" and a well-planned operation to discredit Russia, and its ears stick out far beyond Ukraine.
    I think the fate of the Boeing was decided before it took off.
  • Vladimir Vladimirovich_6
    Vladimir Vladimirovich_6 28 June 2020 06: 10 New
    +1
    not a Dutch court exists .. and there a bunch of pro-American rat cubs gathered and attracted, by the ears, various kinds of fakes from social networks to fulfill the order of the American Gestapo. By the order of which the Bandera terrorists shot down the plane.
  • Valeriy007
    Valeriy007 28 June 2020 07: 10 New
    +1
    One question dispatch service:
    Who ordered to send the liner through the Donbass ?, - everything will put in its place ....
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 28 June 2020 07: 42 New
    +1
    Ordinary anti-Russian propaganda! Say also that the complex Russia supplied or if you seized from Ukraine, then Russia modernized it, gave target designations. Delusions of the country of drug addicts and L GBT!
    1. ender
      ender 28 June 2020 08: 40 New
      0
      Well, why is nonsense. one person in a topic has already shared some revelations

  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 28 June 2020 08: 09 New
    0
    laughing Now, Four people launched the Beech. laughing . That's stupid.
  • Alexander Yolgin
    Alexander Yolgin 28 June 2020 08: 31 New
    -5
    And recently, Iran knocked down a passenger and also a mountain of corpses, and no problems were made of the other man, and everything was wrong, at one time Ukrainians shot down our passenger with Jews on board over the Black Sea and no problems, but what’s the matter here? Holland or whoever the mouse is there and we have no one to reassure something and the guarantor is not visible to shut the throats,
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 28 June 2020 08: 38 New
    +1
    Quote: pytar
    For the rest, everyone who claims to be that way will be "stupid man." They won’t even listen to him. The phenomenon is well known to psychologists.


    Shake your tongue less. Psychology has nothing to do with it. It's about iron. If a person undertakes to write on the subject of the use of air defense systems in such a delicate situation, he should not bear nonsense. And that is exactly what he did. When I read this, I seriously did not take this clown seriously. Conclusion - is he a very stupid person, or interested, is that more understandable? The expert was obliged to consider all versions, including such an unpleasant for a true liberal as the guilt of the United States and Ukraine who organized the terrorist attack. Vadimko basically did not consider the version with the Ukrainians. But this is a marker of intent. Incidentally, he rewrote everything by the way. But people remember that. I then read the first version from the so-called expert.
    Further, so where did the SPU come from? I will tell you in the disaster area there was a whole division 156 air defense missile systems of the Air Force, but the so-called Dutch court. Even the random shooting hypothesis is not considered. Why?
    So where is the psychology? It is, but different .. If Hehemon appointed someone guilty - this does not require evidence.
    It turns out like this.
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 28 June 2020 08: 47 New
    +1
    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
    neither Russia, nor the DPR presented any sensible refutations and their counter-evidence.


    There is nothing to refute, there is no topic of discussion itself. For there is no evidence. Thousands of pages transfusion from empty to empty.
  • Shiden
    Shiden 28 June 2020 09: 31 New
    0
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
    neither Russia, nor the DPR presented any sensible refutations and their counter-evidence.


    There is nothing to refute, there is no topic of discussion itself. For there is no evidence. Thousands of pages transfusion from empty to empty.

    So justify that there is no evidence. And it turns out that without trial you have already appointed the perpetrators at your discretion. You will not deny that the Boeing was shot down from an air defense system. The court and the court to figure out who is to blame. And as for the evidence, I can put forward my version and half the world will be to blame there.
    1. boris epstein
      boris epstein 28 June 2020 15: 31 New
      +1
      Not okay. There is a presumption of innocence. Evidence and evidence must be provided by the ACCUSER.
  • Wolf
    Wolf 1 28 June 2020 09: 49 New
    +1
    I remember that in a few minutes Poroshenko announced that Russia had shot down a Boeing. I remember that Strelkov, after arriving at the crash site, wrote about corpses that "smell as if they had been lying for several days." I remember that Western investigators were not in a hurry to rush to the field with the debris of a Boeing. I remember that the SBU in the early days published an audio recording with conversations of alleged representatives of the DPR allegedly about the shooting down of a Boeing - later it turned out that it was recorded earlier, see screenshot. Where is the truth?
    1. Serge tankman
      Serge tankman 28 June 2020 14: 39 New
      +2
      But the truth remained to lie in the field at the crash site of the Boeing, because The SSG managed to collect ONLY 30% of the wreckage and for 5 years to cook from them the version given to him from across the ocean ...
  • svoit
    svoit 28 June 2020 10: 46 New
    0
    Quote: pytar
    Evidence that cannot be refuted, including technical, was provided by Russia.

    Do you seriously believe that if the militia really hit the Boeing, Russia will provide objective evidence?

    Of course, if that were the case, then they would provide the most complete and most objective evidence, it would be much easier to blame everything on the militia, what is their demand? Plant the miner (and me too) for the PU, he will not only bring down the Boeing, but he will destroy America in general.