Military Review

Such different options for the supply of submachine guns

32

Rifle experts weapons in their relation to submachine guns are divided into two main groups. The first includes those who believe that this individual automatic weapon under a pistol cartridge has no prospects today and that such a weapon should be perceived more as an anachronism. In the second - those who are sure that the submachine gun has its own future and it depends on the design decisions.


It is discussed with submachine guns, in particular, the cartridge that is used when shooting. Modular designs are also considered. A group of experts believes that for the submachine gun today there is no concept of "too large a caliber." There are many versions when the caliber exceeds 9 mm.

Another direction for talking about submachine guns is the ammunition system. There are many options. This is a drum version, and a tape, and a drum version with the so-called "sleeve feeding" of cartridges, and box-shaped, and many, many others.

Military historian Maxim Popenker talks about various options for ammunition for submachine guns. In the story you can hear about dual-drum ammunition systems, with stores chambered for 7,62 × 38 mm Nagan, about systems of German, Japanese, Soviet design schools.

Photos used:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/Wolfmann
32 comments
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  1. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 25 June 2020 21: 09 New
    +3
    Nah ... what? If served, then choose to your taste! For example, I like the PP ,, Cheetah ,, ... ,, modular ,, design ... cartridges from (9x18 mm) to (9x30 mm) ...! And (9x30 mm) - it’s not enough! Who doubts, let him try!
    1. Shurik70
      Shurik70 25 June 2020 22: 56 New
      +4
      Why is there no future for submachine guns?
      While there will be urban battles against unarmored targets, submachine guns will be needed
  2. ssergey1978
    ssergey1978 25 June 2020 22: 00 New
    +2
    I always liked the MP-38, but its price in the hunting version was even prohibitive.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 26 June 2020 06: 29 New
      +4
      From what point of view to look. This is not an exorbitant price, it's just that your income does not match. fellow request lol
      Humor in the morning, good mood for the day.
      1. ssergey1978
        ssergey1978 26 June 2020 11: 46 New
        0
        If you are ready to give 450000 p. happy for you.
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 26 June 2020 11: 55 New
          +3
          Of course I’m ready, only, as Matroskin said, I don’t have such money. laughing
  3. Eug
    Eug 26 June 2020 07: 20 New
    +3
    As for me, a heavy PP for something similar to 9x30 is in great demand. AM-17 is not that, too "ricochet" cartridge, there is no "caronade" effect. It will be just right for urban battles, and if the size is reduced in comparison with the AK, it will also be in demand in the army for everyone involved with technology. Just do not overcomplicate "universality". The downside is that the cartridge, as I understand it, is not cheap and you can't carry a lot of them on yourself.
    1. Alexander Drobyshev
      Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 17: 20 New
      +4
      In addition to AM-17 chambered for 5,45x39 mm, they are testing the AMB-17 version chambered for 9x39 mm, remove the built-in "muffler" from the structure and you will have a "caronade" effect. And the 9x30 mm "Thunder" cartridge is inexpensive and easy to manufacture, because it is just a sleeve cut off to the shoulders from a 5,45x39 mm cartridge; 033-1,00 grams and a bullet weighing 1,05 grams from the 6,7x9 mm SP-21 cartridge, the weight of an automatic rifle 10x5,45 mm - 39 g, 10,3x9 mm - 39 g and a 23,5x9 mm "Thunder" weighs 30 grams.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 26 June 2020 17: 29 New
        +1
        Hi Sasha! hi Glad to meet you. smile
        ... it's just a sleeve cut off on the shoulders from a 5,45x39 mm cartridge ... (

        True, Luger at one time also simply "cut off the shoulders" of Borchardt's cartridge and created his famous 9x19 Luger (or Para).
        PS Drop by on David Stirling and PMCs, but rather look through the whole series of articles by Valery Ryzhov.
        1. Alexander Drobyshev
          Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 17: 41 New
          +2
          Good afternoon! I disagree with you, although the geometry of the 7,63x25 mm cartridge is Mauser (nee 7,65x25 mm Borchard) by shortening and you can get a 9x19 mm Luger sleeve (I myself did this from 7,62x25 mm TT cartridges, I have a "PPSh-Luger "), but the original sample was an uncrimped and shortened sleeve from 7,65x21 mm Luger, after all, having a bunch of blanks for its sleeves, it is strange to use a competitor's sleeve
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 26 June 2020 18: 00 New
            +1
            I do not agree with you

            So it’s not with me, alas. I don’t remember who and where I read it. smile
            1. Alexander Drobyshev
              Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 18: 22 New
              +2
              The 9x18 mm Borchard cartridge, which was used as a prototype in 1902 (pictured from the site https://municion.org/), was not very successful, and in the same year DWM developed its own version, commonly known as the 9x19 mm Luger.
        2. Alexander Drobyshev
          Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 19: 39 New
          +1
          I would like to clarify why?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 26 June 2020 19: 53 New
            +1
            Well, if you are not interested in the topic of international mercenarism, then there is no reason. request In general, interesting people gather on Ryzhov’s articles, if only for communication.
            1. Alexander Drobyshev
              Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 20: 11 New
              +1
              Now it’s clear. The period of the mercenaries that you are talking about is mainly interesting for me with the technology they used, for example, the use of the Malmo MFI-9 Junior aircraft by Count Carl Gustav von Rosen in the Biafra Air Force in 1969.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 26 June 2020 20: 15 New
                +1
                Ryzhov has von Rosen, and not only about him, when it comes to airplanes.
                1. Alexander Drobyshev
                  Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 20: 58 New
                  +1
                  I read, but the thought that I already read them does not leave me
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 26 June 2020 21: 02 New
                    +1
                    So check, and suddenly something new.
      2. Eug
        Eug 27 June 2020 17: 31 New
        0
        Thanks for the "enlightenment"! Where it is not clear to me why it is still not widely used. As I understand it, its production can be set up from almost ready-made components.
        1. Alexander Drobyshev
          Alexander Drobyshev 27 June 2020 17: 34 New
          +1
          Thank you, I was glad to help you.
        2. Alexander Drobyshev
          Alexander Drobyshev 30 June 2020 10: 51 New
          +1
          the cartridge turned out to be too highly specialized, its length of 42 mm makes it difficult to use in pistols, and the power is excessive, in fact, this is our analogue of the .357 Magnum (9x33R mm), but in machine guns this niche was already occupied by 9x39 mm, which, unlike 9x30 mm "Thunder" could be used with a silencer. Therefore, the topic did not take off.
  4. sen
    sen 26 June 2020 08: 23 New
    +4
    Tandem Vesely V-42 submachine gun store

    1. Alexander Drobyshev
      Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 21: 07 New
      +2
      VAG-73 - an automatic pistol for a caseless cartridge of 7,62 mm caliber with a magazine for 48 rounds (photo from https://www.sovrus.com/armiya-sssr/954-koncept-pistoleta-vag-73.html)
  5. tanit
    tanit 26 June 2020 10: 03 New
    +1
    and tape

    And this, excuse me, how?
    1. Alexander Drobyshev
      Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 21: 17 New
      +3
      the prototype Thompson submachine gun - "Persuader" (The Persuader) was under belt feed


    2. Alexander Drobyshev
      Alexander Drobyshev 26 June 2020 21: 44 New
      +2
      of modern weapons, this is the prototype of the 1940 Koenders German submachine gun and the Soviet experienced LAD light machine gun, and there was also the Japanese 1927 experienced Nambu for cartridges like Hotchkiss


      1. beeper
        beeper 27 June 2020 03: 27 New
        0
        hi Bravo, dear Alexander Drobyshev! good
        Explanatory Your Comments (especially on cartridges) and illustrations I liked!
        I am very glad to see you at VO! yes
        1. Alexander Drobyshev
          Alexander Drobyshev 27 June 2020 03: 37 New
          +2
          Thank you, very glad you liked it!
      2. tanit
        tanit 27 June 2020 08: 11 New
        0
        Thank you, Alexander, for the wonderful answer. hi
        1. Alexander Drobyshev
          Alexander Drobyshev 27 June 2020 12: 29 New
          0
          Thank you, I was glad to help you.
  6. riwas
    riwas 26 June 2020 14: 27 New
    +4
    And what kind of shops do not exist.

  7. beeper
    beeper 26 June 2020 18: 34 New
    +1
    I liked the video interview with Maxim Popenker and comments with pictures (respected Sen and Riwas)! good