Military Review

Rafale fighters will not help India in case of confrontation with China in the air

63

After the border conflict between the Indian and Chinese military in the Galvan Valley, India has high hopes for the French fighter Rafale. Until 2025, 36 such combat aircraft with weapons in the form of Meteor air-to-air guided missiles and SCALP cruise missiles should appear in the Indian Air Force. In India, it is believed that the appearance of these fighters with the named means of destruction will help to effectively counter China.


In fact, French fighters belonging to the 4 ++ generation will not be able to help India if the conflict escalates from a “stone-stick” to a truly military confrontation, including a confrontation in the air. Such a confrontation, of course, is not in the circle of interests of either India or China, but there are forces on the planet for which the real dream is to push the foreheads of these two giants.

One of the important issues in relation to the purchase of Rafale fighters by India is their cost. As noted by Military Review, open Indian sources called an incredible price - each Rafal costs the Indian budget more than $ 200 million! This is two and a half times more expensive than the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 and about three times higher than the amount by which the J-20 buys China for its air force. In other words, for 36 French-made Rafale fighters that will appear in the Indian Air Force, China can respond with three times as many of its fifth generation J-20 fighters - for the same money. Even if, in some ways, the characteristics of the Chinese combat aircraft lag behind the French 4 ++, then what is called “capable of crushing by quantity”.

But China, like hotcakes, is buying other fighters for its Air Force. One of these is the J-16. In China itself, it is considered an analogue of the Russian Su-35. If we compare its characteristics with the characteristics of the French Rafal, then the aircraft produced in France is not exactly called an advantage. For example, the maximum Rafale speed is about Mach 1,8, and the J-16 is Mach 2,2. The Rafale practical ceiling is about 3,8 km lower than the same J-16. Even in engine thrust, the Chinese Su-35 is superior to the French combat aircraft.

This is because even if India throws all the "Rafali" that it has contracted to the borders of China, then no small and victorious war will happen for it. So far, the superiority in technical aircraft equipment is still on the side of China. Therefore, it is 100 percent better to discuss difficult issues at the negotiating table in order to prevent third parties from taking advantage of the situation to add oil to the fire.
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  1. APASUS
    APASUS 23 June 2020 16: 59 New
    11
    each Rafal costs India's budget more than $ 200 million

    How to deceive yourself, but Indians can!
    1. Vrungeli
      Vrungeli 23 June 2020 18: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: APASUS
      How to deceive yourself, but Indians can!

      Hindu dopladyvayutsya someday .. Gouge them to the nines ..!
      As children, damn everything bright and sparkling are caught in armaments ..A defense defense, etc. no essentially .. How many times they were offered to let us create an echeloned defense of air defense (after all, India has money) Not a single bastard will touch you with such a system .. No! Any garbage is bought and, moreover, haphazardly ..
      The Chinese have everything clearly and interconnected, although they are still far from perfect, but they are on the way to this. Because I know how to concentrate the country's resource in the right directions and there is no "libersociety" there. They work calmly without looking back .. Oh, it would be so in Russia!
    2. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 23 June 2020 18: 16 New
      +2
      Yeah, it's time for the Indians to think about how to live on. Because the situation can be very sad
      1. bayard
        bayard 23 June 2020 23: 13 New
        +2
        Quote: TermNachTER
        Yeah, it's time for the Indians to think about how to live on.

        Yes, we’ve already thought about it - they are asking to expedite the delivery of the S-400, the Su-35s are going to order and upgrade all their Su-30s to the avionics level to the Su-35 level.
        It is visible to them that the Chinese have set their brains with iron sticks.
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 24 June 2020 18: 15 New
          +1
          Good intentions are not an advance payment yet. Now dances with elephants can begin again, especially if the conflict subsides.
          1. bayard
            bayard 25 June 2020 00: 23 New
            +2
            Advance payment passed for S-400 a long time ago, now they are asking to speed up delivery. For the urgent delivery of several dozen MiG-29 from the availability, it seems, too. A couple of dozens of additional Su-30 car kits were also ordered ... Well, ammunition, spare parts, consumables ... The Minister of Defense came to the parade - they say they are shopping.
            1. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer 25 June 2020 18: 46 New
              +1
              God bless me.
      2. aftbreeze
        aftbreeze 25 June 2020 18: 20 New
        0
        Maybe, after all, Indusam?
  2. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 23 June 2020 17: 02 New
    19
    It is necessary to learn from the French how to snatch a 4 ++ plane, at the price of a "death star."
    1. Ragnar Lodbrok
      Ragnar Lodbrok 23 June 2020 17: 25 New
      11
      Do not say advertising trade engine !!!
      1. knn54
        knn54 23 June 2020 18: 47 New
        +3
        Plus "His Majesty-ROLLBACK".
      2. alone
        alone 23 June 2020 22: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
        Do not say advertising trade engine !!!

        That's right .. But there is one small nuance. The high accident rate of the Indian Air Force can play a cruel joke. More precisely, anti-advertising for Rafale. Hindu aviators are always to blame for the manufacturer
        1. bayard
          bayard 23 June 2020 23: 17 New
          +2
          Quote: lonely
          High accident rate of Indian Air Force can play a cruel joke

          Is it really bad? smile
          High accident rate for an aircraft priced over 200 million dollars. ... willy-nilly will lead the brain in the right direction.
          And to the right contracts. yes
  3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 June 2020 17: 05 New
    16
    each Rafal costs the Indian budget more than $ 200 million! This is more than twice as expensive as the fifth-generation American fighter F-35

    (sigh) Maybe it's not worth comparing the cost of "Raphael", which includes the plane itself, training, maintenance and a bunch of other things, and the cost of the F-35 just for the plane, and without an engine?
    1. Ragnar Lodbrok
      Ragnar Lodbrok 23 June 2020 17: 26 New
      +8
      Both fly, and there let the buyer think what to take and what not ...
  4. pytar
    pytar 23 June 2020 17: 06 New
    +4
    One of these is the J-16. In China itself, it is considered an analogue of the Russian Su-35. If we compare its characteristics with those of the French Rafal, then the aircraft produced in France cannot be called an advantage ... the Chinese Su-35 is superior to the French combat aircraft.

    "Even the copy-paste of our planes are better than others." This is the whole point of the article, by an anonymous author. Very patriotic! laughing
  5. NEXUS
    NEXUS 23 June 2020 17: 06 New
    +2
    That is why I said, I won’t be surprised if the Indians give money for the development of the SU-57, and while they plan it, they will want to take a single version. China does not sit and does not trade in mugs, looking for where it is more profitable and cheaper, and in a relatively short time, put the J-20 in the series, and J10 on the way. At the same time, quantitatively, they are really capable of crushing the Indian Air Force. But ... who believes in a real full-blown conflict between the two nuclear powers?
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 23 June 2020 17: 32 New
      +3
      It is hard to believe ... in such a conflict, and even in the conflict itself, even without nuclear ...
    2. mvg
      mvg 23 June 2020 22: 06 New
      0
      put in a series of J-20, and on the way and J10

      Andrey, tie a plump ... I am mainly for J-10.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 23 June 2020 23: 10 New
        0
        Quote: mvg
        Andrey, tie a plump ..

        Dear, what do you know about me to write such crap here? Go on a sexual journey to where the Sun does not shine.
        1. mvg
          mvg 27 June 2020 10: 15 New
          +1
          and on the way and J10

          This one is “on the way”, already about 20 years old. What, besides the booze, can still explain your ridiculous comments .. then ballistic missiles to Varshavyanka, then no caliber calibers, we fly everywhere, then an airplane that already has 4 versions in service is still suitable ? Maybe the sun does not shine, but this is nonsense, you do not need to draw. There are more entertaining resources for this.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. the most important
      the most important 23 June 2020 23: 04 New
      0
      Quote: NEXUS
      But ... who believes in a real full-blown conflict between the two nuclear powers?

      But there will be no large-scale conflict. So ... on the little things ... 10 million on each side.
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 23 June 2020 17: 08 New
    +4
    I remember the Indians drove through the nose when choosing between French and Russian planes ... They chose the French, as they say, a flag in your hands and a drum around your neck ...
  7. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 23 June 2020 17: 09 New
    -2
    Is our su-57 worse than rafal?
    Now these are their problems.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 23 June 2020 17: 29 New
      0
      Cars of a different class. Su 57 is heavier and almost 2 times more than Raphael. Su57 in development, rafal in the series.
      1. Kurare
        Kurare 23 June 2020 17: 38 New
        0
        Quote: Grazdanin
        Su57 in development, rafal in the series.

        Have you read the article?
        Before 2025 years in the Indian Air Force should appear 36 such combat aircraft
        1. Grazdanin
          Grazdanin 23 June 2020 17: 44 New
          +2
          And? Rafal is produced in serial production 175 pieces, Su57 in development, i.e. not yet ready and not accepted for service. What's wrong?
          1. Kurare
            Kurare 23 June 2020 17: 51 New
            +2
            Quote: Grazdanin
            What's wrong?

            The fact that 36 Rafaleys will appear in the year 2025. So the fact that the Su-57 is not yet operational, but Rafal in the series, does not play any role for India.

            And in the second case, you are not quite right: the 57th is also in the series. But, still not a single serial set wink
            1. Grazdanin
              Grazdanin 23 June 2020 18: 09 New
              +1
              Are planes built with the wave of a magic wand? Do pilots learn in one day? Ground-based infrastructure crawling out of the ground? If Su 57 is brought to mind by 2025, it will be a success. Then you will need to hold the events that I wrote.
              1. Kurare
                Kurare 23 June 2020 19: 58 New
                +1
                K 1: no, it takes time. But Rafal is definitely not helping now.
                K 2: this applies to Rafal and any other aircraft. But, to transfer from, for example, the Su-30 to the 57th will be easier.
                K 3: for Rafal everything needs to be done anew, and with Sushki it will be easier.
                And when the 57th really becomes a fighter, I can’t presume to say. But Rafal’s track record is not great.
                1. nks
                  nks 23 June 2020 21: 15 New
                  0
                  Quote: Kurare
                  Oh, transfer from, for example, the Su-30 to the 57th will be easier.

                  This is why such a conclusion?

                  Quote: Kurare
                  K 3: for Rafal everything needs to be done anew, and with Sushki it will be easier.

                  What all"?

                  Quote: Kurare
                  But Rafal’s track record is not great.

                  Hmm, in the 21st century, probably only f-16 is more and then I’m not sure
            2. nks
              nks 23 June 2020 21: 12 New
              +1
              Quote: Kurare
              that 36 Rafaleys will appear already in 2025

              Even in this "article" it is written until 2025. In reality, delivery under the current contract should be completed in 2022. The first 4+ (they say 7-8) should be already in July, although they write on Indian forums that they have already seen it in the sky. And it is quite possible that India will ask to speed up the rest.
          2. nks
            nks 23 June 2020 21: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: Grazdanin
            175 pieces released

            > 200
      2. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 23 June 2020 17: 43 New
        0
        Drying also went into series, so it doesn’t roll. At the expense of more than twice this is certainly an argument, they are measured in size.
        1. Grazdanin
          Grazdanin 23 June 2020 17: 47 New
          -4
          Quote: Herman 4223
          Drying also went into series

          Su 57 seriously?) When was it adopted? When was the supply contract signed?)
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 23 June 2020 18: 07 New
            0
            They didn’t take it into service, but the car went into a series already. The first crashed in December, this year there should be two assembled. And there is a contract for 70 cars, Algeria ordered 14.
        2. PSih2097
          PSih2097 23 June 2020 17: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: Herman 4223
          Drying also went into a series, so it doesn’t roll.

          Well, there are apparently different concepts about the meaning of the word "serial production" ... laughing
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 23 June 2020 18: 14 New
      -3
      Quote: Herman 4223
      Is our su-57 worse than rafal?

      Not worse ... but better. Only Indians want a SU-57 twin, and today, we only have single pre-production ones.
      And the pairing program costs money, and nifiga is not small, and time. And the Indians need all this yesterday. So they sat, traded in erysipelas. Chapai swam ... you know further.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 23 June 2020 18: 45 New
        +1
        So if they didn’t leave the program, they would already have everything. How much money did they allocate from the planned for the program? Ten percent? That's why there is no spark.
  8. Oleg kubanoid
    Oleg kubanoid 23 June 2020 17: 17 New
    +1
    the problem of the Hindus is not in technology but in the head ... they are comparable in stupidity with the Arabs ..
  9. Grazdanin
    Grazdanin 23 June 2020 17: 20 New
    -1
    1. From the article it is not clear why they will not help.
    2. Do the specified parameters in the article somehow affect modern air combat?
    3. Will India only have 36 Rafales? Will there be no other aircraft?
    4. Doesn’t it bother anyone that planes of two different classes are compared?
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 23 June 2020 17: 46 New
      +3
      And if they meet each other out of class, then they will disperse in different angles?
    2. PSih2097
      PSih2097 23 June 2020 17: 59 New
      +2
      Quote: Grazdanin
      3. Will India only have 36 Rafales? Will there be no other aircraft?

      Well, why are Dryers 30 MKI in their arsenal worth 200+ pieces ...
      1. stoqn477
        stoqn477 23 June 2020 19: 07 New
        0
        According to the recollections, I think there are more than 250 pieces.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 23 June 2020 20: 07 New
          +3
          Quote: stoqn477
          According to the recollections, I think there are more than 250 pieces.

          there a certain amount was beaten, + someone has the exhausted flying resource of a glider / engine, so two hundred is a more truthful figure.
          For 2015, a 218-page report submitted to the Indian Parliament stated that the Su-30MKI was not operational due to the large number of malfunctioning aircraft, low level of service, and low raid. Of the 210 fighters armed with the Indian Air Force, 115-126 aircraft are currently in non-flying condition, according to auditors.
  10. 501Legion
    501Legion 23 June 2020 17: 20 New
    0
    I wonder what costs if you break the contract.
    1. Kurare
      Kurare 23 June 2020 17: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: 501Legion
      I wonder what costs if you break the contract.

      ... and if there is 100% prepayment?
  11. Wolf
    Wolf 23 June 2020 18: 17 New
    0
    Ears of BAD stick out of this conflict and a lot! One should ask East Indian companies from London what they want? and in Hong Kong too! wink
  12. stoqn477
    stoqn477 23 June 2020 19: 06 New
    +1
    Pretty strange comparison. Price, speed, maximum ceiling of the aircraft and engine thrust are taken into account, this is all for comparison. Maybe the author will tell you which plane flies at maximum speed throughout the flight?
  13. pardonov
    pardonov 23 June 2020 19: 19 New
    -4
    Quote: Vrungeli
    Quote: APASUS
    How to deceive yourself, but Indians can!

    Hindu dopladyvayutsya someday .. Gouge them to the nines ..!
    As children, damn everything bright and sparkling are caught in armaments ..A defense defense, etc. no essentially .. How many times they were offered to let us create an echeloned defense of air defense (after all, India has money) Not a single bastard will touch you with such a system .. No! Any garbage is bought and, moreover, haphazardly ..
    The Chinese have everything clearly and interconnected, although they are still far from perfect, but they are on the way to this. Because I know how to concentrate the country's resource in the right directions and there is no "libersociety" there. They work calmly without looking back .. Oh, it would be so in Russia!

    ? There won’t be any war. But it would be nice for you to turn to a psychiatrist.
  14. Sailor
    Sailor 23 June 2020 19: 33 New
    +2
    But what about the 200 SU-30MKIs, which are also inferior to analogues from China?
    1. nks
      nks 23 June 2020 21: 17 New
      -4
      It’s just that they are simply proving their worthlessness in the Indian Air Force in 20+ years. The work is done by m2000 and will probably be done by rafals.
  15. Karaul73
    Karaul73 23 June 2020 19: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Vrungeli
    Quote: APASUS
    How to deceive yourself, but Indians can!

    Hindu dopladyvayutsya someday .. Gouge them to the nines ..!
    As children, damn everything bright and sparkling are caught in armaments ..A defense defense, etc. no essentially .. How many times they were offered to let us create an echeloned defense of air defense (after all, India has money) Not a single bastard will touch you with such a system .. No! Any garbage is bought and, moreover, haphazardly ..
    The Chinese have everything clearly and interconnected, although they are still far from perfect, but they are on the way to this. Because I know how to concentrate the country's resource in the right directions and there is no "libersociety" there. They work calmly without looking back .. Oh, it would be so in Russia!

    It was not necessary to ruin the union, but to move smoothly to capitalism. But late already, late.
  16. Uncle Izya
    Uncle Izya 23 June 2020 20: 25 New
    0
    The Rafale is about Mach 1,8, and the J-16 is Mach 2,2. Rafale practical ceiling is about 3,8 km lower than the same J-16
    Perhaps this does not play a big role, is the rocket still faster?
  17. Klingon
    Klingon 23 June 2020 20: 40 New
    +2
    Quote: Kurare
    Quote: Grazdanin
    Su57 in development, rafal in the series.

    Have you read the article?
    Before 2025 years in the Indian Air Force should appear 36 such combat aircraft

    money in the morning, chairs in the evening! Can I have chairs first and then money? , - it is possible :) - but money forward !! wassat drinks
  18. mdsr
    mdsr 23 June 2020 22: 07 New
    -2
    Quote: Oleg kubanoid
    the problem of the Hindus is not in technology but in the head ... they are comparable in stupidity with the Arabs ..

    After reading your enormous thought, I can say for sure that we also have people who can compete with the smartest Indians.
  19. Doccor18
    Doccor18 23 June 2020 22: 28 New
    0
    Until 2025, 36 such combat aircraft should appear in the Indian Air Force ...

    Strengths - almost an air regiment.
  20. Doccor18
    Doccor18 23 June 2020 22: 31 New
    +1
    In fact, French fighters belonging to the 4 ++ generation will not be able to help India if the conflict escalates from a “stone-stick”

    Of course they can’t. 36 cars against the Chinese Air Force, where only J15-16 almost 400 pieces.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 24 June 2020 07: 21 New
    +1
    Fighting equipment that you don’t produce and you don’t repair yourself and ammunition that you don’t produce is a dubious occupation.
  23. gorenina91
    gorenina91 24 June 2020 07: 37 New
    +1
    Until 2025, 36 such combat aircraft should appear in the Indian Air Force ...

    As noted by Military Review, open Indian sources called an incredible price - each Rafal costs the Indian budget more than $ 200 million! It’s two and a half times more expensive than the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 and about three times the amount


    - No, but what actually prevents India from doing the same thing today as France did; when she broke off a contract with Russia on the supply of its Mistrals ??? -Moreover, the lines of the Mistral supply contract have already ended; and until the end of Rafaley’s deliveries, it’s as much as five years ...- until 2025 ...
    -Likewise, India can terminate the contract and return to France the money and the already delivered Rafali; and with the same money to buy from Russia a much larger batch of Russian fighters ...
    1. Mitroha
      Mitroha 24 June 2020 21: 15 New
      +1
      Perhaps a penalty for the failure of the contract. Or unwillingness to return kickbacks. We do not know all the terms of the transaction.
  24. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 24 June 2020 09: 16 New
    0
    It can be seen in India kickbacks of 70 percent of the transaction.
  25. Selevc
    Selevc 24 June 2020 11: 24 New
    +1
    The French airplane Rafale looks like a dusty "novelty" from magazines of the 60-70s of the 20th century !!!