Military Review

About the concept of a supersonic airliner: Does Russia take a step forward or repeat the mistakes of the Tu-144?

116

As already reported "Military Review" with reference to SIC "Institute named after N.E. Zhukovsky, ”began the development of a new Russian supersonic civilian aircraft. By the end of 2021, the development of the concept of the airliner should be completed.


The Ministry of Industry and Trade Thought About Supersonic Passenger Aviation


The customer of the concept was the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation. The goal of the program is to create a plane that has a cruising speed of about 2 thousand kilometers per hour, which will provide advantages over the subsonic aircraft used by civil aviation currently.

It is clear that the development of the concept of an airliner, and then, if it turns out to be successful, and its project, is carried out in order to ensure Russia a competitive place in the global civil aviation market. Now, as you know, Boeing and Airbus are leading in it, leaving domestic planes far behind.

So far, according to the head of the Institute Andrei Dutov, engineers have to determine ways to solve the problems of high noise levels, high fuel consumption, environmental pollution, and transportation safety. The institute does not talk about the price of a future aircraft, but it can be assumed that it will be much more expensive than existing aircraft used by Russian civil aviation.

We also recall that not so long ago, Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov spoke about his own vision of a supersonic aircraft: it could be a superjet, designed for 16-19 seats. Then, as technology develops, airplanes can be created to carry more passengers — about 30-50 people.

But the question is, will such a plane be financially cost-effective and will the Russian aviation industry raise the costs of creating such a machine? It is still known that the amount of the contract for 2020 amounted to 213 million rubles, for 2021 - 504,7 million rubles.

Short history of the Tu-144


Meanwhile, the very idea of ​​developing a domestic supersonic airliner sends us to the famous Tu-144 a half century ago. Recall that the world's first supersonic Tu-144 aircraft was developed by Tupolev Design Bureau back in the 1960s. On December 31, 1968, the Tu-144 made its first test flight, two months ahead of the British-French Concorde (this plane took off on March 2, 1969). In 1975, the commercial operation of the new aircraft began, but for a long time it did not last and was already discontinued in 1978.

At that time, very high hopes were pinned on the Tu-144. At first, they hoped for a new airliner to make non-stop flights from Moscow to Khabarovsk, as well as flights with a landing on the route Paris - Novosibirsk - Tokyo. But neither one nor the other flights were launched. All short history Tu-144 flew between Moscow and Alma-Ata during its operation.


On May 23, 1978, the Tu-144, which made a test flight, caught fire. Test pilots managed to land the airliner on a field near the city of Yegoryevsk, Moscow Region. Unfortunately, two flight engineers O.A. Nikolayev and V.L. Venediktov were killed in the fire. This accident was a serious reason for revising attitudes toward the aircraft.

In addition, it turned out that it is very expensive to operate and difficult to maintain. It was decided to continue improving the machine, but after the death of Leonid Brezhnev, the Soviet leadership refused the idea of ​​operating a supersonic passenger liner. In 1983, a government decree was issued.

The story of Concord turned out to be more successful: the aircraft was operated from 1976 to 2003. During this time, flights using the Concorde carried up to 3 million passengers. The reason for the abandonment of the operation of the liner was the increase in fuel prices. That is, in fact, both the Soviet Tu-144 and the European Concord at different times, but were deemed unprofitable.

LCD screens for review and clean fuel


But the world aviation industry did not abandon the idea of ​​creating a supersonic airliner. Now on the projects of supersonic aircraft are very actively working in the United States. Boom Supersonic is developing the XB-1 program. The ultrasonic demonstrator XB-1 Baby Boom was first introduced on November 15, 2016 in Denver.



The declared characteristics: length - 21 meters, wingspan - 5,2 meters, maximum take-off weight - 6,1 tons, cruising speed - 2,2 Mach numbers, flight range - 1,9 thousand kilometers. But even more interesting is the fact that Boom Supersonic adheres to a carbon-neutral concept when creating a new airliner, that is, it intends to use environmentally friendly fuels. Also, the liner will not have windows - they will be replaced by LCD screens.

The scientific director of the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) Sergey Chernyshev a year ago spoke about his vision of a new Russian supersonic airliner. Like the aircraft being developed by the Americans, the new Russian car may also not have windows. For normal viewing in the cabin on the sides and on the ceiling will place LCD screens.

Chernyshev also spoke of a no less original aerodynamic configuration: an aircraft can have a wing in the form of a double transverse V. Also, a promising aircraft engine PD-14 can be installed on the airliner of the future.

In any case, the idea of ​​creating a supersonic passenger aircraft in Russia seems quite interesting. Even if its implementation takes much longer than the Ministry of Industry and Trade expects, the fact of such developments underlines our country’s membership in the list of world aviation technology leaders.
Author:
Photos used:
Wikipedia / Christian Volpati, Denzen; Boom supersonic
116 comments
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  1. Bashkirkhan
    Bashkirkhan 22 June 2020 19: 42
    22
    And who needs it? Only a handful of very rich people, for an ordinary passenger a supersonic plane, is also a spaceship. Almost unattainable for financial reasons. Only the very wealthy people regularly flew to the much more spacious Concorde.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 22 June 2020 20: 15
      -3
      Quote: Bashkirkhan
      And who needs it? Only a handful of very rich people

      Почему нет?
      In the field of long-haul, it is very, very difficult to fight with the Americans and Europeans.

      But to try to fit into an expensive "niche" ... quite a normal option.
      1. Bashkirkhan
        Bashkirkhan 22 June 2020 20: 21
        17
        Given the development of video conferencing technologies and generally the quality of communication, the number of important business meetings that required the mandatory physical presence of interlocutors was reduced. Really urgent issues can be discussed remotely without loss of communication quality, for everything else, the speed of conventional airliners and business jets is enough. I doubt that they will take it.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 22 June 2020 20: 23
          +2
          Quote: Bashkirkhan
          I doubt that they will take it.

          Until we learned how to relax remotely in Bali and Hawaii, they will.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Bashkirkhan
                Bashkirkhan 22 June 2020 22: 21
                15
                Well, the question is where to build it. Take the Kazan Aviation Plant, for example. When the state order for the Tu-160 appeared, it suddenly became clear that there was no one to collect it. Many quit in the 90s and zero, the plant degraded. Through the personnel department, they began to look for old frames that are still alive and in their minds. Thus they recruited aksakals who still remember how to build airplanes. So they collect in particular now the wiring inside the fuselage. I'm trying to recreate a titanium center wing, but with it everything is very complicated. In general, if the deadlines for the production of Tu-160 are not disrupted, it will be a miracle.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 22 June 2020 22: 27
                  0
                  Quote: Bashkirkhan
                  Well, the question is where to build it. Take the Kazan Aviation Plant, for example. When the state order for the Tu-160 appeared, it suddenly became clear that there was no one to collect it.

                  I remember there was a scandal in Britain. Scandal. With helicopters in Afghanistan. And they decided to capitalize their "Chinooks". But suddenly it turned out that there was no one.
                  And they solved the problem. Pensioners, youth, mentoring. Even on a Rolls-Royce, so that because of their poor-quality engines, airbasses do not fall
                  Are we stupider?
                  Everything is solvable. Especially when neighbors can get hold of specialists.
                  1. Bashkirkhan
                    Bashkirkhan 22 June 2020 22: 45
                    +3
                    85 years ago, Joseph Stalin uttered the phrase “Cadres decide everything!”. So we will see how the first president of Tatarstan, Shaimiev, who at one time was breaking through a decree of the government of the Russian Federation on supporting the plant, which stipulated the preservation of several backlogs of the Tu-160, said. And when KAZ was bent over without work, the authorities of the Republic of Tatarstan managed to lobby the release from the backlog of two cars: one was handed over in 2000, the second in 2008. In 2018, they lifted the 804th car from the last reserve.
                2. U-58
                  U-58 23 June 2020 03: 49
                  0
                  The best place is the SARATOV aircraft factory.))))
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 23 June 2020 15: 30
                    +1
                    There is no Saratov aircraft factory since 2007.
                    1. U-58
                      U-58 23 June 2020 17: 21
                      0
                      Therefore, I write.)))))
                3. cradle
                  cradle 23 June 2020 03: 59
                  +4
                  and what is so abstruse about assembling according to drawings? Well, it's clear that there will be a lot of jambs in the drawings ... at first. At our construction site, this is always the case. But when they put it into series, the childhood illnesses will be eliminated, and the staff will pay off. The road will be mastered by the walker, and if the "FSE is gone", so you need to go to bed and die. Should be done if it's worth it.
                  1. abrakadabre
                    abrakadabre 23 June 2020 08: 21
                    +1
                    For this aircraft, the most expensive is fuel and maintenance. In terms of fuel, everything will move forward as soon as detonation jet engines are finalized. They promise to reduce gluttony by more than 20%, ceteris paribus. And this is very significant. We will see. Something about them was silent again. Some time ago, publications often climbed out.
                    But maintenance is unlikely to greatly reduce the cost. After all, cars are of ultimate characteristics. So the wear of the structure and components is strong. which means regular total checks, troubleshooting, etc. In short, it will be close in price with the corresponding military aircraft - supersonic bombers.
                  2. Nemchinov Vl
                    Nemchinov Vl 25 June 2020 00: 46
                    0
                    Quote: besik
                    Need to do if it's worth it.
                    but there is firm certainty - what is it worth it ?! ?!
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Revolver
              Revolver 23 June 2020 02: 01
              -3
              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              #FABRICALLY BALI

              FABULOUS ... what did ?????? wassat
              1. The comment was deleted.
            3. Igor Pa
              Igor Pa 23 June 2020 08: 33
              +2
              I was there. He is not fabulous. Prices, yes, are low and otherwise nothing special.
          2. Maki Avellevich
            Maki Avellevich 23 June 2020 06: 50
            +1
            why not.

        2. dali
          dali 23 June 2020 11: 19
          +2
          Quote: Bashkirkhan
          Given the development of video conferencing technologies and generally the quality of communication, the number of important business meetings that required the mandatory physical presence of interlocutors was reduced. Really urgent issues can be discussed remotely without loss of communication quality, for everything else, the speed of conventional airliners and business jets is enough. I doubt that they will take it.

          Live communication cannot be replaced ... and when you need to fly 12 hours at an average speed of 750 km / h, then say a flight in 4 hours, with an average speed of 2250 km / h, will be much more in demand.
          So already at the Tu-144 cruising speed (supersonic) 2300 km / h. So it was then, now it’s already possible to design more.
        3. g1v2
          g1v2 23 June 2020 21: 38
          +4
          That's just teleportation has not yet been invented. Today, for a person, a supersonic plane is the fastest way to get from one continent to another. And again, in the case of the right marketing company, such an aircraft can become a status thing. As for example, Aurus has already become such a thing, for which the queue is scheduled for years. There are many rich people in the world who can afford this, but to convince them that a Russian personal supersonic plane is super cool show-offs, is already the task of proper advancement. So far, in this niche of the market, you can try to occupy it. In any case, making the coolest planes in the world is not a commodity trade. It is clear that the second method of money will give much more, but such technologies always have a dual purpose and drag along a whole chain of allies.
      2. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 22 June 2020 21: 38
        10
        Quote: Spade
        But to try to fit into an expensive "niche" ... quite a normal option.

        The problem is that you can only compete on routes like the transatlantic. And then ... I remember, during flights to Cuba, the flight itself took less than half the time. From the threshold of the house, and to the door of the hotel 23 hours. There are 11 of them in the air. On the one hand, savings of 5-6 hours, and on the other ... 17-18 hours, versus 23. At the same flight price, why not? But if it is 2-3 times more expensive? For 500-1000 dollars you can sleep 5-6 hours. Sleeping at a rate of $ 100-200 per hour, I personally see as a very exciting affair lol Those. tourist routes disappear immediately. And the niche is narrowing sharply. And to launch 1-2 flights per month? Who will adapt to them?
        Well, on routes like Moscow-Sochi, or Peter-Berlin, where saving time will be half an hour or an hour, it is completely useless to use it. That is, at best - an apparatus for very specific long-haul flights. Manufactured by the piece, and therefore furiously expensive in production and operation. Those. it all comes down to ticket prices. If for me, then the market will digest + 15-25% of the price, but if more. that most likely will be - then there is a white elephant. Classical.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 22 June 2020 21: 45
          0
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          The problem is that you can only compete on routes like the transatlantic

          Berlin-Bali doesn't sound like? Just a duplication of "Concord"?
          1. Lannan Shi
            Lannan Shi 22 June 2020 23: 06
            +2
            Even discussing lazily, but okay.
            Quote: Spade
            Berlin Bali is not like?

            No. Categorically. For hundreds of millionaires do not fly on it. Daily.
            Quote: Spade
            Just a duplication of "Concord"?

            Well, if you find a large passenger flow. In which there will be more rich. With all that distant. Then it is not necessary to duplicate.
            The supersonic niche is rich and very rich. The flight London-N York-London cost 10.000 then dollars. The only places where such airplanes can operate are world business centers. And them on the planet ... On the fingers of one hand. Well, still an individual order for megastars, superbusinessmen and very important politicians. Neither Aeroflot nor Siberia will be stupidly allowed into any of these niches. Either the toilet on board will turn out to be the wrong system, or the rivet which certification will not pass, or the pilot with the color of his hair under the standard will not work. And inside the country, or on the outside, where you can fit in thanks to positive / neutral relations, there are no stupid passengers for such aircraft. The only niche that I personally observe is the government squadron. But here the game is not worth the candle.
            1. Alexey Sommer
              Alexey Sommer 23 June 2020 14: 42
              +1
              I think only the world market of business jets with a speed of 2 M can be estimated at 500 at least.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 23 June 2020 15: 34
                0
                Such a quantity is enough for the sheikhs of Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar alone.
            2. certero
              certero 29 June 2020 17: 49
              0
              Under capitalism, a supersonic airliner is not needed in Russia.
          2. Eug
            Eug 23 June 2020 05: 34
            0
            Yes, and in the direction of the Emirates-Australia, too, like a lot of wealthy passengers ...
      3. Cowbra
        Cowbra 23 June 2020 05: 17
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Почему нет?

        Payback
      4. bk0010
        bk0010 23 June 2020 09: 53
        0
        The rich have a supersonic business jet. For ordinary people, tickets will be 4 times more expensive than for a regular plane, they will not take them. You can make all the places a business class, but it still comes out expensive.
    2. General failure
      General failure 22 June 2020 20: 21
      0
      The niche of passenger superpersonics is empty, why not try to occupy it?
      Moreover, the low passenger capacity, kmk, is rather a feature to fend off the problems that caused Concord to close.

      Some oil Arabs (and not only Arabs) can buy this just for the show off.
      If only the order would cover development costs.

      Ida, some time ago rumors were circulating that some sheikhs wanted to finance the conversion of the Tu-160 into a passenger. Is this news growing from this topic?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 23 June 2020 03: 14
        +3
        Quote: General Failure
        Ida, some time ago rumors were circulating that some sheikhs wanted to finance the conversion of the Tu-160 into a passenger.

        The name of the entom sheikh is Putin V.V.
      2. Cowbra
        Cowbra 23 June 2020 05: 21
        0
        And again about the Japanese: they say that, firstly, the Japanese decided to stop testing their M-90 aircraft in the United States and return them to Japan, and secondly, to officially close the 76-seat M-100 program - their main hope. The practice of testing in the United States means actually suspending the program for an indefinite period - there are no certification specialists in Japan - all the hope was in Canadians and Americans. Looks like SpiceJetu (aka MRJ) is a complete weasel. Let's remember it like this:

      3. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 23 June 2020 14: 45
        +1
        Quote: General Failure
        wanted to finance the conversion of the Tu-160 into a passenger

        It is simply not possible.
        And 160 conditionally supersonic. Cruising speed to sonic. There is a limited time in supersound, for example, in the air defense breakthrough mode. Very gluttonous dvigun.
    3. Stalllker
      Stalllker 22 June 2020 20: 24
      -5
      The same flights, Moscow - Washington and other capitals, why not
    4. smart ass
      smart ass 22 June 2020 21: 19
      +4
      And he needs the brightest exclusively for the show off, like the aurus
      1. KCA
        KCA 23 June 2020 04: 27
        0
        A lot of people were led to the show of the luminous,
        civilian "Aurus" has not yet been released, and the line behind them is already 5 years ahead, show-offs are not more expensive, show-offs bring money
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 23 June 2020 08: 19
          0
          Quote: KCA
          civilian "Aurus" has not yet been released, and the line behind them is already 5 years ahead, show-offs are not more expensive, show-offs bring money

          where infa ?!
          1. KCA
            KCA 23 June 2020 08: 32
            +3
            The head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, Denis Manturov, said that the demand for Aurus cars reached 600 pre-orders
            In a conversation with the correspondent of “Russia 24”, he added that over the next 2020 the manufacturer intends to sell only 50 copies of the model, and they plan to establish mass production only in 2021.

            Despite the fact that the cost of the Senat model in the sedan starts from 18 million rubles, the reception of pre-orders has so far been suspended.
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 23 June 2020 11: 15
              0
              Quote: KCA
              The head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, Denis Manturov, said that the demand for Aurus cars reached 600 pre-orders

              Thank you for the answer ... although in fact the question is how much should be produced for the payback of the project
              1. KCA
                KCA 23 June 2020 11: 48
                +1
                I think that it has already indirectly paid off, a huge amount of research has been carried out under it, one development of a domestic engine of this class gives how much, and even scalable, from 4 to 12 cylinders, they write that on its basis and aviation do
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 23 June 2020 15: 36
                  0
                  And also a nine-speed automatic transmission without a torque converter.
                2. smart ass
                  smart ass 23 June 2020 18: 55
                  0
                  And the engine is not accidentally Porsche? You saw money with Denisk, so drown him for it ?!
                  1. KCA
                    KCA 24 June 2020 00: 54
                    +1
                    In fact, the engine of development by us with the participation of Porsche, with the participation. If I sawed money with him, what would I do here on the site? I’ve had enough, somewhere in the Maldives, to fish, for example, from my yacht ...
            2. smart ass
              smart ass 23 June 2020 18: 52
              0
              Denisk manturov combed you he sawed with homies
        2. smart ass
          smart ass 23 June 2020 09: 21
          0
          Something on the street I did not notice the arouses in a traffic jam, I see that I’m not looking there)
          1. KCA
            KCA 23 June 2020 09: 27
            +1
            I wrote the same. that not a single civilian "Aurus" has been released yet, and a Rolls-Royce or at least a pop Maybach make your eyes callous all the time in traffic jams?
            1. smart ass
              smart ass 23 June 2020 10: 34
              0
              Yes rush
              1. KCA
                KCA 23 June 2020 10: 41
                0
                I’m not a Muscovite, but I went to Msk for more than 15 years 1-2 times a week, though I’m not driving, I’ve been nearby, but the more I had the opportunity to stare around, for all the time I saw RR (not Bentley) only in the company dealership, often passed by, on the street never
                1. smart ass
                  smart ass 23 June 2020 10: 56
                  0
                  Every day I see in the working parking lot the owner's Mercedes for 14 million rubles. From this it does not get any easier for me
    5. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 22 June 2020 22: 46
      0
      Quote: Bashkirkhan
      And who needs it?

      probably those who need to quickly arrive from remote areas, it is clear that if he was chased from Alma-Ata to Moscow, he did not fall on FIG
    6. georgiigennadievitch
      georgiigennadievitch 27 June 2020 11: 24
      0
      You think somehow in a stereotyped way. He needs Russia first of all. With our sizes and open spaces, from East to West, even from north to south. Well, from Moscow to St. Petersburg or Nizhny and about the same distance you can still go to the railway .express., quickly and conveniently, but if such a road is built to Vladik, then there will not be enough money, it will become truly golden, and it will still take a long time. Therefore, you still need to see that railways are more expensive, or the development and construction of an airplane in the series. It seems that serial supersonic planes, if they are more expensive than subsonic ones, aren’t much. As for fuel efficiency, it’s necessary to think that there are approaches, technical solutions will be found. And then this is not a commercial, but mostly political project . The country needs to be held together, and Eastern Russia should be made closer to the center. Here is a historical fact, when the A-3m was informed how much it would cost to travel along the newly built Trans-Siberian Railway from St. Petersburg to Vladik and that few people could travel along this road, he ordered to charge approximately Novosibirsk, and then carry it for free. And this is not a kingly whim, but a state approach and the understanding that otherwise Russia will lose its eastern part.
  2. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 22 June 2020 19: 46
    13
    Tu144, like Tu160, like Tu22 flies on super sound on Fast and the Furious. Need a powerful afterburner turbojet with a civilian resource
    1. dali
      dali 23 June 2020 11: 25
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Tu144, like Tu160, like Tu22 flies on super sound on Fast and the Furious. Need a powerful afterburner turbojet with a civilian resource


      Speed ​​Tu-144
      - Maximum speed, km / h: 2500
      - Cruising speed (supersonic), km / h: 2300
      - Landing speed, km / h: 270
      - Take-off run, m: 2930
      - path length, m: 2570
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 23 June 2020 13: 55
        0
        Fast and Furious Speed
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 June 2020 15: 40
      0
      For such an aircraft, you need a combined or combination of theater and ramjet - for supersonic such an engine is much easier to manufacture and maintain, and fuel consumption is much more efficient.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 23 June 2020 16: 02
        0
        The engine is the key unit.
  3. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 22 June 2020 19: 49
    14
    Yes, pure window dressing.
    Moreover, we know (there were articles here) with which creaks Ilya, Superjets, MS, Ana, etc. are made.
    Underwaffles are promoted instead of workhorses, and then neither underwaffles nor responsibility for failure ...

    And many familiar airlines have sunk into oblivion
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 23 June 2020 09: 04
      0
      Well, so it will be for the plane for the show off of our elite. We are not talking about any payback.
  4. Klingon
    Klingon 22 June 2020 19: 57
    +1
    only wide-body aircraft with good capacity are cost-effective, it is necessary to work in this direction rather than window dressing and boltology
    1. Svetlana
      Svetlana 22 June 2020 20: 18
      +2
      That is, all kinds of cornmen, BE 30, ss100, or, say, wide-body aircraft are not a priori profitable?
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 22 June 2020 21: 07
        +1
        If you take the Moscow-Sevastopol flight and deliver B747 with 400 pass, B737 with 200 pass and SSZ with 95 pass. That is the most profitable B747
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 22 June 2020 21: 48
          -8
          Not everything is so primitive. Simultaneous unloading of 400 passengers is a blow to the airport access system. Here, it may turn out like in a song - it’s better many times once, than once once many times.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 22 June 2020 23: 05
            +1
            Departure from anyone except Zhukovsky.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Harry cuper
        Harry cuper 22 June 2020 21: 40
        -6
        corn can be profitable, but the ss100 is definitely not. And it will never be profitable
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 22 June 2020 22: 47
      +1
      Quote: Klingon
      only wide-body aircraft with good capacity are cost-effective

      can you show the calculations ?!
      somehow in the Union planes flew and tickets were not at exorbitant prices
      1. dauria
        dauria 23 June 2020 00: 06
        +6
        somehow in the Union planes flew and tickets were not at exorbitant prices


        Remember .... So there are prices assigned... They threw it on crystal, carpets, gold, "Zhigul" - on bread, school uniforms, they threw off the rent. So they regulated cash flows between the required branches of production. Ridiculously - to fly to Moscow and back for 16 rubles in order to drink 10 rubles in a pub and give 20 rubles to taxi drivers. laughing
        If it weren’t for this planned regulation, it would be like now - a casino and a couple of brothels are more cost-effective than all SIC “N.E. Institute Zhukovsky " wassat
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 23 June 2020 06: 14
          -1
          Quote: dauria
          They remembered .... So there the prices were set. On crystal, carpets, gold

          do not write nonsense, prices in the Union were clearly calculated, another question is that the state dated some prices
          Quote: dauria
          It’s ridiculous to fly to Moscow and back for 16 rubles, to drink 10 rubles in a tavern and give 20 rubles to taxi drivers.

          ?! specify from which city to Moscow the ticket cost 8 rubles
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 23 June 2020 06: 43
            +3
            “Prices in the Union were clearly calculated” - of course, clearly calculated, but at the same time they did not at all reflect the real value of goods and services. With real pricing, an engineer and a teacher, in principle, cannot earn less than a janitor, and metro travel is cheaper than an empty half-liter glass bottle.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 23 June 2020 07: 55
              -2
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              but at the same time they did not at all reflect the real value of goods and services

              what nonsense
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              With real pricing, an engineer and a teacher, in principle, cannot earn less than a janitor

              do not write nonsense if you do not know, you can name the salary of the janitor and the salary of the teacher
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              and metro travel is cheaper than an empty half-liter glass bottle

              you don’t know anything about pricing in the Union
              1. Sergey Valov
                Sergey Valov 23 June 2020 09: 25
                +2
                “Do not write nonsense if you do not know, you can name the salary of a janitor and the salary of a teacher”
                In 1982, when I graduated from the institute, I received a salary of 120 rubles and 10% of the quarterly bonus. In 1988, having settled down as a janitor, I received a salary of 150 rubles. in summer and 220 in winter.
                I consider further communication with you pointless.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 23 June 2020 10: 24
                  -2
                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  being built as a janitor, received a salary of 150 rubles. summer and 220 winter

                  but let's not lie, how many bets were
                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  I consider further communication with you pointless.

                  Of course, if you were caught lying
                2. dali
                  dali 23 June 2020 11: 29
                  0
                  Quote: Sergey Valov
                  In 1982, when I graduated from the institute, I received a salary of 120 rubles and 10% of the quarterly bonus. In 1988, having settled down as a janitor, I received a salary of 150 rubles. in summer and 220 in winter.
                  I consider further communication with you pointless.

                  Just do not compare 1982 and 1988 - give a documentary example of the janitor's salary in 1982.
  5. Undecim
    Undecim 22 June 2020 20: 08
    24
    Wonderful things are happening on the site. They removed Timokhin's normal, interesting article about helicopters in the "Armament" section, but in "Analytics" they added a completely empty rant by Polonsky. Especially the author was successful in the pearl that fantasies on the theme of a supersonic passenger aircraft lead the country to the leaders of world aviation technologies.
    1. bk0010
      bk0010 23 June 2020 10: 00
      +1
      They returned the article of Timokhin. In it, like, the video was repaired.
  6. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 22 June 2020 20: 13
    +3
    A rolling stone gathers no moss! Obtaining the results of design developments may not be expected "today", but without these developments, "tomorrow" we will find ourselves lagging behind. In addition, during the development, a number of related areas are being addressed that may be in demand today!
    It should be remembered that many of today's "novelties" are the results of the design bureau's work since Soviet times.
  7. Owl
    Owl 22 June 2020 20: 22
    +1
    Everything is decided by economic feasibility, it will be economically profitable - does it make sense to develop and operate, and if not, why?
  8. Klingon
    Klingon 22 June 2020 20: 31
    +2
    Quote: Svetlana
    That is, all kinds of cornmen, BE 30, ss100, or, say, wide-body aircraft are not a priori profitable?

    Well, it’s not necessary to exaggerate at all, there is a small aviation sector, I mean medium, and a long-range sector. All kinds of airplanes are needed, but this is superfluous and supersonic Jet. It's like a Rogozin skyscraper.
    we still can’t finish the MS-21, and here the arguments on the topic of a supersonic airliner are ridiculous.
    # Here they like to shout at first, GOP !, and then try not to jump, but at least jump
    1. notingem
      notingem 22 June 2020 21: 19
      +1
      What's wrong. GOP and a billion no. Even you don’t need to just jump: shame Boeing, give another billion
  9. Ajevgenij
    Ajevgenij 22 June 2020 21: 08
    +6
    Yeah, the goal of the program is to absorb the budget. Here, straightforward, in plain text, they essentially write.
  10. businessv
    businessv 22 June 2020 21: 13
    +3
    The customer of the concept was the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation.
    Well, now at least some clarity! Well, good luck with the developers!
    1. Harry cuper
      Harry cuper 22 June 2020 21: 42
      +2
      good luck with budget laughing
  11. Harry cuper
    Harry cuper 22 June 2020 21: 44
    +2
    Expel Polonsky
  12. Vitaly gusin
    Vitaly gusin 22 June 2020 21: 47
    +3
    On May 23, 1978, the Tu-144, which made a test flight, caught fire. Test pilots managed to land the airliner on a field near the city of Yegoryevsk, Moscow Region. Unfortunately, two flight engineers O.A. Nikolayev and V.L. Venediktov were killed in the fire. This accident was a serious reason for revising attitudes toward the aircraft.
    Yes, not only this, there were 3 more accidents.
    The first at the international salon in Le Bourget 1973. Killed all six crew members.
    On July 31, 1980, at an altitude of 16 thousand meters, one of the engines was destroyed.
    1981, a fire occurred on board.
    But not only this was the reason for the abandonment of operation. For aircraft of this type, the technical base of aerodromes should be ready, there should be intercontinental flights, and whoever gave it to the USSR at that time, there was Concord which later also became unprofitable.
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 23 June 2020 11: 27
      +2
      Quote: Vitaly Gusin
      there was Concord which later also became unprofitable.

      What the hell profitability ??? At the Concorde, such an audience flew that would buy tickets for these aircraft even with a 300% premium and without noticing it !!!

      Concordes, too. Were emergency - there were fires of engines, .. Accident Concorde data was hushed up without sacrifices in order to maintain the company's image !!! But after the only accident with human casualties, the commercial operation of supersonic aircraft ceased worldwide !!!.
      Even those who want to fly with show-offs and are ready to pay a lot for this do not want to fly to their grave in supersonic sound !!! And aviation officials do not understand this - and they still cannot understand in any way that the era of civilian kamikaze pilots is already in the distant past !!!
      1. Vitaly gusin
        Vitaly gusin 23 June 2020 12: 49
        0
        Quote: Selevc
        What the hell profitability ???

        On April 10, 2003, Air France and British Airways announced the resignation of their Concorde fleet. He worked for 27 years, making his first commercial flight on January 21, 1976.
        The number of passengers decreased after the crash of Air France Concorde a few minutes after leaving Paris in July 2000, killing all 109 people on board and four on the ground. The plane crashed into a piece of metal on the runway, breaking the tire, and fuel the tank caught fire during takeoff.
        The attacks on the 9/11 twin towers in 2001 also had a significant impact on the number of people who prefer flying.
        Over time, they were outdated and became expensive to operate, the increase in maintenance costs was not lifting
        This is the official version.
        Quote: Selevc
        . Accident-free Concorde accident data was hushed up in support of the company's image

        If you were silent, how do you know what was not in the media?
    2. Mikhail Ya2
      Mikhail Ya2 23 June 2020 19: 27
      0
      6 crew members and 8 more civilians on earth
  13. Old26
    Old26 22 June 2020 21: 54
    +2
    Quote: Svetlana
    That is, all kinds of cornmen, BE 30, ss100, or, say, wide-body aircraft are not a priori profitable?

    In some conditions they are profitable, in others they are not. For example, the same BU-30 will be cost-effective on local air lines, but not cost-effective at a distance of 500-600 km. And vice versa. "Superjet" can be cost-effective at ranges of 1,5-2,0 thousand kilometers and not cost-effective at a distance of 300 kilometers. There is no definite answer. But supersonic aircraft are unlikely to be profitable. Maximum if they are designed for 10-15 people and at a distance of several thousand kilometers. On short ones - hardly. And large ones are not profitable at all, because the cost will be prohibitive. It is very large for most passengers when flying to the Far East and on ordinary flights. And profitability will give IMHO only mass character
  14. iouris
    iouris 22 June 2020 22: 36
    0
    "Thinking" is good news.
    However, the trend is hypersound. Where to fly?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 June 2020 15: 58
      0
      A hypersound doesn’t go anywhere. A joint project between Australia, the EU and Russia, a hypersonic passenger airliner powered by a hydrogen gas scramjet, has been working on it for five years; they promise to lift the demonstrator into the air in 2025
  15. eklmn
    eklmn 22 June 2020 22: 39
    +3
    “Even if its implementation takes much longer than the Ministry of Industry and Trade expects, the fact of such developments underlines our country’s membership in the list of world aviation technology leaders.”
    A very interesting passage - here is the longing for “world leadership”, and the large-scale desire of the USSR to build something enormously unnecessary without economic justification, and the construction will take several generations ...
    How, after all, the USSR took root in the brains of those who did not live with him, but for some reason raves about him ...
  16. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 22 June 2020 23: 17
    +1
    Another wet dreams, it would be better if the mind gave the plane for regional transportation.
  17. Hitmaster
    Hitmaster 22 June 2020 23: 31
    +6
    The PD-14 is a subsonic engine, and it’s strange to even mention it in an article about supersonic aircraft.
    1. mark1
      mark1 23 June 2020 05: 55
      +2
      I would give you two pluses, the only smart (and not clever) comment
      1. Motorist
        Motorist 23 June 2020 21: 05
        0
        Quote: mark1
        PD-14 subsonic engine

        I also thought about it, but decided to read the comments of specialists first, because he himself is more familiar with engines with a crank gear.
  18. seacap
    seacap 23 June 2020 00: 11
    +1
    It’s not even funny, the finished developments of Soviet engineers could not be brought to mind, even that “effective” but “slightly” corrupt and mediocre managers destroyed it to please overseas partners, and here there are only projects, the main headline is brighter and louder.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 June 2020 16: 00
      0
      These developments are already as old as 50 years old - physically and mentally out of date what is the point of bringing them.
  19. vVvAD
    vVvAD 23 June 2020 00: 20
    +2
    Quote: Eagle Owl
    Everything is decided by economic feasibility, it will be economically profitable - does it make sense to develop and operate, and if not, why?

    There are also state and military sectors for which the issue of price is at a slightly different level compared to the civilian one.
  20. boriz
    boriz 23 June 2020 00: 55
    +7
    "The promising PD-14 aircraft engine can also be installed on the airliner of the future."
    Hard to believe. PD-14 turbofan engine for subsonic speeds.
    Supersound needs a completely different engine.
    1. mark1
      mark1 23 June 2020 06: 02
      +2
      I agree with you, this is the first thing that clicked in my head, but I thought about it - but after all there was a subsonic D-30 and a supersonic D-30F6, and suddenly they were going to follow the same path (although the traction will most likely still be not enough)
  21. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 23 June 2020 04: 23
    +1
    Does Russia take a step forward or repeat the mistakes of the Tu-144?

    A step forward, two steps back ... I agree with those who identified the phenomenon as another attempt to cut budget funds. I also understand others who reproach the domestic aircraft industry for unfinished projects and for those not known for serial production of well-known models.
    Insanity in the leadership, the absence of any justification that guided ordinary users, offering to find a niche for these "supersonic sounds", a limited number of passenger seats ...
    Probably, the concept of further development of the country for the benefit of a limited number of people will continue further ... And not only in the aircraft industry ...
    Meanwhile, in China, trains are moving at a speed of 600 km / h. It is necessary to revise the film "Eccentrics" to understand that the movement of railway transport on the vast Russian territory with speeds close to 600 km / h will bring much more benefit than the movement of several thousand people through the air at a speed of 2200 km / h.
    BUT!!! In our country, tonsil cutting is performed in a tried and tested “anal” way; we have not stopped creating difficulties in order to persistently overcome them; under any fantastic project we bring approval by force; for us, "crane (Siberian Crane) in the sky" is much preferable to chicken legs on a plate ...
    1. Kelwin
      Kelwin 23 June 2020 07: 17
      +1
      Insanity in the leadership, the absence of any justification that guided ordinary users, offering to find a niche for these "supersonic sounds", a limited number of passenger seats ...

      No, Yuri Vasilyevich, you see, simple on the peron, complicated refueling and PP procedures and so on tightly destroy the whole chip of the x-max. - Yes, nobody needs them. We need cheap and ECONOMIC means of transportation - according to the principle of keros (l) / person * capacity _varnik / course_USD = good.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 23 June 2020 13: 14
      -1
      Quote: ROSS 42
      It is necessary to revise the film "Eccentrics" to understand that the movement of railway transport on the vast Russian territory with speeds close to 600 km / h will bring much more benefit than the movement of several thousand people through the air at a speed of 2200 km / h.

      The Nuts movie of 1991 ...
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 June 2020 16: 02
      0
      In the USSR, the creation of the Tu 144 was a real cut of the budget - they spent no sense on airplanes under 12 billion rubles.
  22. Kelwin
    Kelwin 23 June 2020 06: 58
    +1
    Will Mr. Dutov grow avionics in the country? I’ll simply keep silent about certification ... but, damn it, I realized that the author will produce tens of thousands of nomenclature items. he knows how. burn.
    add-on Do the middle trunk first. supersonic im yeah ..
    add2 Who knows what gimor cost "cold vestibule" on 144m - do you think it is necessary again?)
  23. zwlad
    zwlad 23 June 2020 07: 27
    0
    Than the windows of the pilots then interfere. Okay, I understand for passengers the screens can be hung. But to the pilots?
    1. Kelwin
      Kelwin 23 June 2020 07: 34
      0
      Reduce the stiffness of the fuselage, increase the cost, make certification difficult. Well, and a tenth of the points. and piloting one FIG instrument - why a window?
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 23 June 2020 09: 43
        +1
        Windows do not affect stiffness at all. Strength characteristics are provided by the power set, between the elements of which the windows are located. But I can not imagine the cockpit without glazing - how, for example, to land a car in case of failure of the altimeter? Replacing a person for a very long time will not work.
  24. Suslin
    Suslin 23 June 2020 08: 01
    0
    The main disadvantage of the Tu-144 was the "vacuum cleaner" effect. Taxiways and runways had to be thoroughly swept before takeoff and taxiing. During these works, the airport was idle. I wish the developers to take into account all the negative experiences. Good luck !!
  25. steelmaker
    steelmaker 23 June 2020 08: 14
    0
    Money must be stolen! So come up with all sorts of projects. And Putin’s education is not enough to figure it out.
  26. mag nit
    mag nit 23 June 2020 08: 16
    -2
    The benefit in Russia is cheap fuel ...
  27. avia12005
    avia12005 23 June 2020 09: 02
    +2
    Manturov would at least launch the replacement of the AN-2 in a series, and you're talking about supersonic ...
    1. Nemchinov Vl
      Nemchinov Vl 25 June 2020 01: 25
      +1
      Quote: avia12005
      Manturov would at least launch the replacement of the AN-2 in a series, and you're talking about supersonic ...
      dear Yuri, as you think "not so big", like Manturov ... That wealth in your family is much less than in the family of Manturov .... smile (!)
  28. Selevc
    Selevc 23 June 2020 11: 09
    0

    As already reported by "Voennoye Obozreniye" with reference to the Research Center "Institute named after N.Ye. Zhukovsky ", the development of a new Russian supersonic civil aircraft has begun. By the end of 2021, the development of the concept of the airliner should be completed.
    What for ?????????? Is the sad fate of the Tu-144 and Concord did not teach anyone anything ????? Why fly commerce to supersonic ??? Which rich people will risk their lives in a few hours time savings ??? Where are the guarantees of the safety of new civilian flights at supersonic ??? In Russia, there are no other more pressing problems in aviation ???

    I will say even more - any aircraft manufacturer who wants to transfer civilians to supersonic will have to overcome the "crowd fear barrier" and for years to convince potential passengers of the safety of such flights !!! And the slightest minor accident will lead to a massive refusal of passengers to fly on these supersonic coffins !!!
  29. Klingon
    Klingon 23 June 2020 12: 21
    0
    Quote: Suslin
    The main disadvantage of the Tu-144 was the "vacuum cleaner" effect. Taxiways and runways had to be thoroughly swept before takeoff and taxiing. During these works, the airport was idle. I wish the developers to take into account all the negative experiences. Good luck !!

    correctly noticed! and this led Concord in 2003 to an accident - a piece of iron falling off the freighter and lying on the runway onto which Concord rolled and she flew up and proportioned the wing tanks - the result is known to everyone!
  30. nekromonger
    nekromonger 23 June 2020 13: 54
    0
    The Soviet Union, with all its experience and industrial potential, couldn’t bring it to mind, and this bunch of crooks, opportunists and thieves was going to overpower it. Can you just allocate money for it and take them offshore? And answer, can a plane carrying 144 passengers be profitable and pay back the money to create it? The answer is on the surface.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 June 2020 16: 10
      0
      The USSR, with its industrial potential and high-power gas turbines for power generation, could not make modern marine diesel engines - and crooks in Russia made GT 110M on Saturn, Power Machines create GT 65, GT 170 in Kolomna created a line of D500 diesel engines ...
  31. Tuzik
    Tuzik 29 June 2020 11: 23
    0
    The bourgeois want a fast plane, let them saw it, if only it would not fall on someone's head.