During the NATO training “Running the Bull” in Poland refused to use the M1 Abrams tanks: the reason is named

In Poland, it is reported that joint training will be held as part of the joint contingent of NATO. The maneuvers were attended by troops of the armies of Poland, the USA and Great Britain.

Among others - fighters of the 16th mechanized division and the 15th mountain motorized brigade.

The name of the training is “Bull Run” (“Running Bull”) (Bull Run).

It is reported that one of the purposes of these trainings is to familiarize the American and British soldiers, who had previously arrived by rotation in Poland, with the locality. During the maneuvers, the state of Polish roads, the terrain, the nature of the road surface, the total length of the road network in the area of ​​responsibility were taken into account.

Recall that earlier the military command of the American contingent in Europe noted a significant problem for mechanized and tank divisions of the United States in Poland and the Baltic States. In particular, it was noted that many local bridges are simply not designed for the mass of American Abrams tanks, especially if we are not talking about a single version, but about a march as part of a tank unit. The passage of several "Abrams" and other units of armored vehicles in a row, the supports of the bridges may simply not withstand.

In the event of a march as part of the Bull Running maneuvers, it was decided to abandon the use of American tanks. The reason for this refusal to participate in the crew of the M1 Abrams is precisely due to the fact that on some sections of the route 62-ton combat vehicles could not have passed without consequences for the road infrastructure.

Comments

[Pessimist22]

Then the standing bull

[svp67]

Quote: Pessimist22

.... standing ...

And where to put the stress?
In general, a very useful and necessary training

[Invoce]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Pessimist22

.... standing ...

And where to put the stress?
In general, a very useful and necessary training

What is the use of training? In this case, it was necessary to drive off the crews instead of tanks, so that something was postponed ...
And so - "Bull Run" ("Running bull") (Bull Run) is transformed "Bull in the slaughterhouse"!

[svp67]

Quote: Invoce

What is the use of training?

IN PRACTICE. In the practice of driving on roads and routes, in working out and identifying "bottlenecks", in practicing overcoming "barrier" lines ... and all this in practice

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Invoce

In this case, it was necessary to drive off the crews instead of tanks, so that something was postponed ...

In our time, it was called - horse on horseback.
In general, not even our 72nds will be able to withstand our bridges.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

In general, not even our 72nds will be able to withstand our bridges.

And our T-72s should not ride on the roads. For this, column roads must be organized.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Spade

And our T-72s should not ride on the roads.

Actually, there was talk of bridges.

[Lopatov]

Do you offer tanks to be launched on railway bridges?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Spade

Do you offer tanks to be launched on railway bridges?

A car in nature does not exist?
Actually, the article was about this - = In particular, it was noted that many local bridges were simply not designed for the mass of American Abrams tanks.
So I said that not all of our bridges (for Lopatov - automobile ones) will withstand our 72nd. (For Lopatov, not all of our road bridges can withstand even the T-72, which is lighter than the Abrams)

[Alexander Yusupov]

T-72-90-55-62 will quietly pass without a bridge.
By ford. Crossing, pontoon bridge.

[svp67]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

In general, not even our 72nds will be able to withstand our bridges.

Well, actually, separate routes are laid out for tanks, as well as for all other tracked vehicles, and they are equipped with engineer troops by pontoon crossings,

pavement

Well, according to the circumstances ...

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: svp67

Well, actually, separate routes are laid for tanks,

Why are you treating doctors?
The article contained the words - = In particular, it was noted that many local bridges are simply not designed for the mass of American tanks “Abrams, I reacted to them. What is the problem? What does pontoons and other "circumstances" have to do with it? ?

[svp67]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Why are you treating doctors?

Well, if the doctor is a "narrow specialist", then why not treat him to another specialist

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

The article contained the words - = In particular, it was noted that many local bridges are simply not designed for the mass of American tanks “Abrams, I reacted to them. What is the problem? What do the pontoons and other "circumstances" have to do with it?

You just do not even understand that this is a solvable problem, in Poland they are already solving it, I am significantly modernizing the road network, they will finish there and go to the Baltic States, and then you look and money will be allocated to Ukraine ... "Anaconda" squeezes "embraces". Nothing is done just like that, "dohtUr"

[not main]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: svp67

Well, actually, separate routes are laid for tanks,

Why are you treating doctors?
The article contained the words - = In particular, it was noted that many local bridges are simply not designed for the mass of American tanks “Abrams, I reacted to them. What is the problem? What does pontoons and other "circumstances" have to do with it? ?

Well, I’ll try to answer you on the merits. (Although I know that you know the answer better than me!) Yes, we have many bridges in critical condition and the load is limited on them, each of them is different, but none of the critical can stand the T-72. But I will tell you by the example of Karelia, with us few roads and many bridges, but almost anyone can get around! Well, just in case, Abrams (62t) will be able to withstand only railway bridges!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: non-primary

None of the critical can stand the T-72. But I will tell you by the example of Karelia, we have few roads and many bridges, but almost anyone can get around! Well, just in case, Abrams (62t) will be able to

It is said - grief from the mind. Why are you so sick of my comparison of Polish and our bridges? What does the railway bridge have to do with the fact that the bridges can be bypassed?
I just compared the Polish bridges and ours. ALL!!!!!!!
That there are railway bridges, there are pontoons, there are fords, I know without you !!!

[hydrox]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

In general, not even our 72nds will be able to withstand our bridges.

Nothing! There are sappers for this: the pontoons also need to train somewhere.

[qQQQ]

Quote: svp67

In general, a very useful and necessary training

It was possible to go the route on foot along the crew, the road would have been remembered all my life.

[Piramidon]

The main thing is to find out from whom this bull is running, dropping his litter.

[Reserve buildbat]

In general, Bull Run can be translated as "Bull Race"
Bull run, in general.

[Alexey RA]

And you can still remember about the two battles at Bull Run - in 1861 and in 1862.

[Alf]

Quote: Alexey RA

And you can still remember about the two battles at Bull Run - in 1861 and in 1862.

In both battles, the southerners pulled the northerners. In the first, the feds drapanuli, in the second only the screeners of the northerners were able to keep the Confederates from prosecuting the drapery.

[rocket757]

Crocodile is not caught, coconut does not grow!
They would ... teach, take and cancel, but, thoughts, thoughts, and Wishlist in the first place!

[doubovitski]

What the hell are teachings? Like, write one or two in your mind? Tank columns move across the maps. Option "Tanchiki" in English, not translated into Pshek. Trenches and caponiers are dug using Photoshop.

[To be or not to be]

The Bull Run 12 exercise tested the readiness and compatibility of the Forward Presence Battle Group Poland and the Polish 15th Mountain Motorized Brigade.

[hohkn]

Quote: To be or not to be

The Bull Run 12 exercise tested the readiness and compatibility of the Forward Presence Battle Group Poland and the Polish 15th Mountain Motorized Brigade.

To a joint plump? :)
Since no one’s face was filled after this, it’s not safe.

[Free wind]

The hacks are cool on the BTR, they used to like to put such on KAMAZ, if you find of course. Even at the pioneer horns, the trunks were cut and added to the standard signal. I wonder what kind of bays are by car. For tow cables too thin. I can assume that this is an LED garland, well, this is in PVC tubes. What masquerades can carry out.

[Rriv]

I wonder what kind of bays by car

This is barbed wire or tape.

[fn34440]

This is a fake message for exactly those against whom these teachings are addressed. And the nature of the first local commentary attests to this.
I hope our General Staff reads these fakes without blinders on the eyes, ears and acc. analytical divisions draw the CORRECT conclusions.

[Pavel73]

Oh, sorry that they refused. I wish Abramsov got a few pieces, and with the destruction of bridges ... Maybe at least then someone in Poland would understand something.

[beeper]

This has already happened in Eastern Europe - American tanks and their other "gigantic" armored vehicles "turned over and destroyed", that's why the "Abrams", this time, the Polish soldiers did not take on their training "campaign".
Maybe some of the adequate Poles have understood something, but in the Polish government (as well as in the neighboring Ukrainian government) there are only ameroholuyuschestvennye inadequate - "fed" puppets of Fashington, who have the state interests of their own country "on their side"!

[Alf]

Quote: Pavel73

Maybe at that time someone would understand something in Poland.

Not a damn thing. Just would have introduced a few more sanctions against Russia on the subject that the Soviet builders at one time built bridges in the NDP that were not designed for Abrams tanks.

[Kurare]

Not for nothing that in the USSR the upper weight bar of tanks was limited to 50 tons.
Mostodonts (i.e. bulls) will not pass!

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

Well, the problem is, the tank was dismantled, it was moved in parts through the bridge, assembled further according to the same scheme

[Viktor Sergeev]

Well, tell me how to assemble and disassemble tanks during the war?

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

Like a Kalashnikov assault rifle .

[voyaka uh]

A pontoon bridge is being built next to the highway and a conventional bridge. Engineering and pontoon units always accompany tank units. This is a common practice.
---
During wars, bridges are bombed first. Therefore, counting on them when transferring tanks is pointless.

[Ravil_Asnafovich]

We all know that we need to organize a pontoon crossing, but no one told them about this.

[avib]

Abrams and no heavier than the Polish Leopards 2. The Poles will never redeploy their tanks across the country or what?

[Ded_Mazay]

And it is also necessary to set up a cordon and a booth with the inscription "cash desk" and sell tickets like in a circus to those who want to see this process

[APASUS]

Imagine American logistics during a military conflict. Tanks need to be driven to the train station, loaded, cross the bridge and tanks need to be lowered. And so on ad infinitum

[voyaka uh]

Have you heard about the pontoon bridges?

[5-9]

Is it easier than driving through an existing bridge chtol?

[APASUS]

Quote: voyaka uh

Have you heard about the pontoon bridges?

We heard and heard about the M60A1 - a folding axle on a tracked chassis, and about the EFA or Engin de Franchissement de l'Avant tractor-platform with hinged bridge sections and air cylinders, and about the LEGUAN 26M AVLB, and about the WFEL M18. That's the only problem one river Vistula, more than 24 automobile bridges and this is not counting other small ravines.

[Viktor Sergeev]

It seems to me alone that the Poles need to be handed over to Russia in time, before the Americans and British come to their aid? Rebuilding the country after the "aid" will be more expensive than after the "capture".

[beeper]

The Fashington aggressors and their NATO allies seem to be preparing European roads and infrastructure for the next "Dranga nach Osten" - a quick attack on the Russian Federation, don't go to the grandmother!

[saygon66]

- The title "Where do the bulls run?"

[5-9]

Polish nenovye Leo-2 A4 / 5 do not reach 60 tons, they type norms on bridges?

[Kurare]

Leopard 2 A4 weight:
- empty 52.000 kg
- combat 55.150 kg
Leopard 2 A5 weight:
- empty 57.300 kg
- combat 59.500 kg

[Free wind]

About the limited carrying capacity of bridges, it seems fiction. Now bridges are usually designed for 60-100 tons. One hundred tonne road trains are not uncommon. Drive along the road, pay attention to the trucks. One axle on a trailer, 15 tons of carrying capacity. five axles 75 tons, plus a three-axle tractor. Tanks drive on their own only in training exercises, but with us. Tolley from wealth, or from poverty. When you drive a tank at a price of 200-300 lyam, it is cheaper than dragging it on a truck at a price of 10 lyam. Approximately, but true.

[5-9]

Unfortunately, American tanks can’t move on the designed bridges .... give them already built. And I’ll tell you a secret, a tank on a trawl weighs more than itself on the weight of a trawl and a tractor ...

[Free wind]

The bridges are now all fortified, except for which are historical. Plus the weight on the trailer is distributed over a greater length, and more evenly.

[5-9]

Why are you arguing with me? Write to the KNS that Putin’s criminal agents in the ranks of the US Army deliberately deliberately excluded tanks from the training plan, so that it’s easier for Vlad to conquer freedom-loving Poland ... and even beat the palyaks that they were left without tank protection.
Although I agree, it’s just "babalanet" to drag the tanks and ride - also an explanation.

[demiurg]

The axle load in the Russian Federation is not more than 10 tons. Usually 7-8, in the summer where many are reduced to 5. The standard weight of the truck is 40 tons.
Count the number of wheels on a tank trawl. There are few axles, but the wheels are 2-3 times larger than usual. And by the way, the speed is pretty limited. Because the impact on the roadway increases sharply with increasing speed.

[Alf]

Quote: Free Wind

Now bridges are usually designed for 60-100 tons.

And how many hundred-foot bridge in Europe?

[Evil 55]

And in Russia, all bridges are 60 tons .. so these teapots are only for deserts and suitable, even frolic there ..

[Free wind]

There are no restrictions on federal highways even on bridges. There is an axle load. It’s possible to run into a puny fine. If there are restrictions, then they usually limit the movement to one lane. Well, imagine two trucks of 60 tons converged on a bridge, they did not violate the restrictions, and the bridge collapsed. Somehow I had to turn around and refuse a trip, despite swearing. A day later, a timber truck collapsed from the bridge there.

[Evil 55]

"In war" will put ... and restrictions ... and mines in support ..

[Alf]

Quote: Angry 55

and mines in support ..

If they are not laid in advance, even during construction.

[Zeev zeev]

A rather strange "reason" is named. The Leopard-2 tanks in service with the Polish Forces weigh five tons more than the American Abrams, and the damage to road infrastructure from them should be greater. Most likely, the Poles and their allies abandoned tanks in order to reduce the time of the exercises and save on fuel, simply driving along the route in wheeled vehicles.

[Africaner79]

We are waiting for plans to modernize the infrastructure, otherwise I don’t understand something

[polikutin.e]

What to do, possovetskoe space and habit ", to lay asphalt everywhere and a little, so that every acupant gets stuck on the outskirts." And if, just because we do not have such heavy tanks after the Second World War, not economy, but infrastructure features, bridges and rugged terrain are not desert and steppe