Military Review

During the NATO training “Running the Bull” in Poland refused to use the M1 Abrams tanks: the reason is named

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In Poland, it is reported that joint training will be held as part of the joint contingent of NATO. The maneuvers were attended by troops of the armies of Poland, the USA and Great Britain.


Among others - fighters of the 16th mechanized division and the 15th mountain motorized brigade.

The name of the training is “Bull Run” (“Running Bull”) (Bull Run).

It is reported that one of the purposes of these trainings is to familiarize the American and British soldiers, who had previously arrived by rotation in Poland, with the locality. During the maneuvers, the state of Polish roads, the terrain, the nature of the road surface, the total length of the road network in the area of ​​responsibility were taken into account.



Recall that earlier the military command of the American contingent in Europe noted a significant problem for mechanized and tank divisions of the United States in Poland and the Baltic States. In particular, it was noted that many local bridges are simply not designed for the mass of American Abrams tanks, especially if we are not talking about a single version, but about a march as part of a tank unit. The passage of several "Abrams" and other units of armored vehicles in a row, the supports of the bridges may simply not withstand.



In the event of a march as part of the Bull Running maneuvers, it was decided to abandon the use of American tanks. The reason for this refusal to participate in the crew of the M1 Abrams is precisely due to the fact that on some sections of the route 62-ton combat vehicles could not have passed without consequences for the road infrastructure.
Photos used:
Facebook / Ministry of Defense of Poland
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  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 22 June 2020 12: 16 New
    +9
    Then the standing bull
    1. svp67
      svp67 22 June 2020 12: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Pessimist22
      .... standing ...

      And where to put the stress?
      In general, a very useful and necessary training
      1. Invoce
        Invoce 22 June 2020 13: 26 New
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: Pessimist22
        .... standing ...

        And where to put the stress?
        In general, a very useful and necessary training

        What is the use of training? In this case, it was necessary to drive off the crews instead of tanks, so that something was postponed ...
        And so - “Running Bull” (“Running Bull”) (Bull Run) transforms “Bull in a slaughterhouse”!
        1. svp67
          svp67 22 June 2020 13: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Invoce
          What is the use of training?

          IN PRACTICE. In the practice of driving along roads and routes, in working out and identifying “bottlenecks”, in working out overcoming “barrier” lines ... and all this in practice
        2. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 22 June 2020 15: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: Invoce
          In this case, it was necessary to drive off the crews instead of tanks, so that something was postponed ...

          In our time, it was called - horse on horseback.
          In general, not even our 72nds will be able to withstand our bridges.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 22 June 2020 16: 02 New
            -1
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            In general, not even our 72nds will be able to withstand our bridges.

            And our T-72s should not ride on the roads. For this, column roads must be organized.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 22 June 2020 17: 00 New
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              And our T-72s should not ride on the roads.

              Actually, there was talk of bridges. hi
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 22 June 2020 19: 31 New
                -1
                Do you offer tanks to be launched on railway bridges?
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 22 June 2020 21: 34 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Spade
                  Do you offer tanks to be launched on railway bridges?

                  A car in nature does not exist?
                  Actually, the article was about this - = In particular, it was noted that many local bridges were simply not designed for the mass of American Abrams tanks.
                  So I said that not all bridges (for Lopatov - automobile) also withstand our 72nd. (For Lopatov, not all of our automobile bridges can withstand even the T-72, which are lighter than the Abrams)
                  1. Alexander Yusupov
                    Alexander Yusupov 23 June 2020 18: 28 New
                    0
                    T-72-90-55-62 will quietly pass without a bridge.
                    By ford. Crossing, pontoon bridge.
          2. svp67
            svp67 22 June 2020 20: 08 New
            -1
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            In general, not even our 72nds will be able to withstand our bridges.

            Well, actually, separate routes are laid out for tanks, as well as for all other tracked vehicles, and they are equipped with engineer troops by pontoon crossings,

            pavement



            Well, according to the circumstances ...
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 22 June 2020 21: 38 New
              +4
              Quote: svp67
              Well, actually, separate routes are laid for tanks,

              Why are you treating doctors?
              The article had the words - = In particular, it was noted that many local bridges were simply not designed for the mass of American tanks “Abrams, I reacted to them. What is the problem? What does the pontoons and other "circumstances" request ?
              1. svp67
                svp67 22 June 2020 22: 20 New
                -3
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Why are you treating doctors?

                Well, if the doctor is a "narrow specialist," then why would he not be treated by another specialist
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                The article had the words - = In particular, it was noted that many local bridges were simply not designed for the mass of American tanks “Abrams, I reacted to them. What is the problem? What does the pontoons and other "circumstances" have to do with it?

                You simply don’t even understand that this is a problem to be solved, now they are already solving it in Poland, they will significantly modernize the road network, they’ll finish there and move on to the Baltic states, and then you look and they will allocate money to Ukraine ... “Anaconda” squeezes “hugs”. Nothing is done just like that, "DohtUR" wink
              2. not main
                not main 22 June 2020 22: 32 New
                +1
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Quote: svp67
                Well, actually, separate routes are laid for tanks,

                Why are you treating doctors?
                The article had the words - = In particular, it was noted that many local bridges were simply not designed for the mass of American tanks “Abrams, I reacted to them. What is the problem? What does the pontoons and other "circumstances" request ?

                Well, I’ll try to answer you on the merits. (Although I know that you know the answer better than me!) Yes, we have many bridges in critical condition and the load is limited on them, each of them is different, but none of the critical can stand the T-72. But I will tell you by the example of Karelia, with us few roads and many bridges, but almost anyone can get around! Well, just in case, Abrams (62t) will be able to withstand only railway bridges!
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 23 June 2020 07: 31 New
                  +2
                  Quote: non-primary
                  None of the critical can stand the T-72. But I will tell you by the example of Karelia, we have few roads and many bridges, but almost anyone can get around! Well, just in case, Abrams (62t) will be able to

                  It is said - grief from the mind. Why are you so sick of my comparison of Polish and our bridges? What does the railway bridge have to do with the fact that the bridges can be bypassed?
                  I just compared the Polish bridges and ours. ALL!!!!!!!
                  That there are railway bridges, there are pontoons, there are fords, I know without you !!!
          3. hydrox
            hydrox 23 June 2020 06: 08 New
            0
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            In general, not even our 72nds will be able to withstand our bridges.

            Nothing! There are sappers for this: the pontoons also need to train somewhere.
      2. qQQQ
        qQQQ 22 June 2020 14: 40 New
        0
        Quote: svp67
        In general, a very useful and necessary training

        It was possible to go the route on foot along the crew, the road would have been remembered all my life.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 22 June 2020 13: 59 New
      +1
      laughing

      The main thing is to find out from whom this bull is running, dropping his litter. laughing
  2. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 22 June 2020 12: 17 New
    +4
    In general, Bull Run can be translated as "Bull Run" laughing
    Bull run, in general.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 June 2020 12: 42 New
      +2
      And you can still remember about the two battles at Bull Run - in 1861 and in 1862.
      1. Alf
        Alf 22 June 2020 18: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        And you can still remember about the two battles at Bull Run - in 1861 and in 1862.

        In both battles, the southerners pulled the northerners. In the first, the feds drapanuli, in the second only the screeners of the northerners were able to keep the Confederates from prosecuting the drapery.
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 22 June 2020 12: 18 New
    +3
    Crocodile is not caught, coconut does not grow!
    They would ... teach, take and cancel, but, thoughts, thoughts, and Wishlist in the first place!
  4. doubovitski
    doubovitski 22 June 2020 12: 22 New
    0
    What the hell are dog teachings? Type one write two in the mind? Tank columns move on the maps. Option "Tanchiki" in English, not translated into Pshek. Trenches and caponiers dig using Photoshop.
  5. To be or not to be
    To be or not to be 22 June 2020 12: 27 New
    +2
    The Bull Run 12 exercise tested the readiness and compatibility of the Forward Presence Battle Group Poland and the Polish 15th Mountain Motorized Brigade.
    1. hohkn
      hohkn 22 June 2020 12: 47 New
      0
      Quote: To be or not to be
      The Bull Run 12 exercise tested the readiness and compatibility of the Forward Presence Battle Group Poland and the Polish 15th Mountain Motorized Brigade.

      To a joint plump? :)
      Since no one’s face was filled after this, it’s not safe.
  6. Free wind
    Free wind 22 June 2020 12: 47 New
    +1
    The hacks are cool on the BTR, they used to like to put such on KAMAZ, if you find of course. Even at the pioneer horns, the trunks were cut and added to the standard signal. I wonder what kind of bays are by car. For tow cables too thin. I can assume that this is an LED garland, well, this is in PVC tubes. laughing What masquerades can carry out.
    1. Rriv
      Rriv 22 June 2020 13: 48 New
      0
      I wonder what kind of bays by car

      This is barbed wire or tape.
  7. fn34440
    fn34440 22 June 2020 12: 54 New
    0
    This is a fake message for exactly those against whom these teachings are addressed. And the nature of the first local commentary attests to this.
    I hope our General Staff reads these fakes without blinders on the eyes, ears and acc. analytical divisions draw the CORRECT conclusions.
  8. Pavel73
    Pavel73 22 June 2020 12: 56 New
    +3
    Oh, sorry that they refused. I wish Abramsov got a few pieces, and with the destruction of bridges ... Maybe at least then someone in Poland would understand something.
    1. beeper
      beeper 22 June 2020 13: 52 New
      +1
      hi So it was in Eastern Europe, the American tanks and their other "giant" armored vehicles "turned over and destroyed," which is why the Abrams, this time, the Polish warriors did not take into their training "campaign".
      Maybe one of the adequate Poles understood something, but in the Polish government (as well as in the neighboring Ukraine), there are only amerochuyuschie inadequate - "lured" puppets of Fashington, which state interests of their own country "on the side"! request
    2. Alf
      Alf 22 June 2020 18: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: Pavel73
      Maybe at that time someone would understand something in Poland.

      Not a damn thing. Just would have introduced a few more sanctions against Russia on the subject that the Soviet builders at one time built bridges in the NDP that were not designed for Abrams tanks.
  9. Kurare
    Kurare 22 June 2020 13: 01 New
    +6
    Not for nothing that in the USSR the upper weight bar of tanks was limited to 50 tons.
    Mostodonts (i.e. bulls) will not pass! soldier
  10. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 22 June 2020 13: 15 New
    0
    Well, the problem is, the tank was dismantled, it was moved in parts through the bridge, assembled further according to the same scheme fellow
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 22 June 2020 13: 23 New
      +2
      Well, tell me how to assemble and disassemble tanks during the war?
      1. Ravil_Asnafovich
        Ravil_Asnafovich 22 June 2020 13: 42 New
        -1
        Like a Kalashnikov assault rifle laughing .
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 22 June 2020 13: 54 New
      +6
      A pontoon bridge is being built next to the highway and a conventional bridge. Engineering and pontoon units always accompany tank units. This is a common practice.
      ---
      During wars, bridges are bombed first. Therefore, counting on them when transferring tanks is pointless.
      1. Ravil_Asnafovich
        Ravil_Asnafovich 22 June 2020 14: 12 New
        +1
        We all know that we need to organize a pontoon crossing, but no one told them about this.
      2. avib
        avib 22 June 2020 18: 42 New
        0
        Abrams and no heavier than the Polish Leopards 2. The Poles will never redeploy their tanks across the country or what?
    3. Ded_Mazay
      Ded_Mazay 22 June 2020 15: 19 New
      +1
      And you also need to put up a cordon and a booth with the inscription "ticket office" and sell tickets in a circus to those wishing to see this process lol
  11. APASUS
    APASUS 22 June 2020 13: 17 New
    +2
    Imagine American logistics during a military conflict. Tanks need to be driven to the train station, loaded, cross the bridge and tanks need to be lowered. And so on ad infinitum
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 22 June 2020 13: 59 New
      +2
      Have you heard about the pontoon bridges?
      1. 5-9
        5-9 22 June 2020 14: 12 New
        0
        Is it easier than driving through an existing bridge chtol?
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 22 June 2020 16: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Have you heard about the pontoon bridges?

        We heard and heard about the M60A1 - a folding axle on a tracked chassis, and about the EFA or Engin de Franchissement de l'Avant tractor-platform with hinged bridge sections and air cylinders, and about the LEGUAN 26M AVLB, and about the WFEL M18. That's the only problem one river Vistula, more than 24 automobile bridges and this is not counting other small ravines.
  12. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 22 June 2020 13: 22 New
    +4
    It seems to me alone that the Poles should be surrendered to Russia on time, before the Americans and the British came to their aid? Restoring a country after “help” will become more expensive than after “takeover”.
  13. beeper
    beeper 22 June 2020 13: 42 New
    0
    Apparently, the Fashington aggressors and their NATO allies are preparing European roads and infrastructure for the next “Drang nah Osten” -immediate attack on the Russian Federation, this does not go to grandma! winked
  14. saygon66
    saygon66 22 June 2020 14: 02 New
    0
    - Directly asking for the name "Where are the bulls running?" ... laughing
  15. 5-9
    5-9 22 June 2020 14: 11 New
    0
    Polish nenovye Leo-2 A4 / 5 do not reach 60 tons, they type norms on bridges?
    1. Kurare
      Kurare 22 June 2020 14: 33 New
      +1
      Leopard 2 A4 weight:
      - empty 52.000 kg
      - combat 55.150 kg
      Leopard 2 A5 weight:
      - empty 57.300 kg
      - combat 59.500 kg
  16. Free wind
    Free wind 22 June 2020 14: 12 New
    0
    About the limited carrying capacity of bridges, it seems fiction. Now bridges are usually designed for 60-100 tons. One hundred tonne road trains are not uncommon. Drive along the road, pay attention to the trucks. One axle on a trailer, 15 tons of carrying capacity. five axles 75 tons, plus a three-axle tractor. Tanks drive on their own only in training exercises, but with us. Tolley from wealth, or from poverty. When you drive a tank at a price of 200-300 lyam, it is cheaper than dragging it on a truck at a price of 10 lyam. Approximately, but true.
    1. 5-9
      5-9 22 June 2020 14: 38 New
      +3
      Unfortunately, American tanks can’t move on the designed bridges .... give them already built. And I’ll tell you a secret, a tank on a trawl weighs more than itself on the weight of a trawl and a tractor ...
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 22 June 2020 15: 25 New
        0
        The bridges are now all fortified, except for which are historical. Plus the weight on the trailer is distributed over a greater length, and more evenly.
        1. 5-9
          5-9 22 June 2020 15: 36 New
          0
          Why are you arguing with me? Write to the KNS that Putin’s criminal agents in the ranks of the US Army deliberately deliberately excluded tanks from the training plan, so that it’s easier for Vlad to conquer freedom-loving Poland ... and even beat the palyaks that they were left without tank protection.
          Although I agree, it’s just an “explanation” to drag and ride tanks into tanks.
    2. demiurg
      demiurg 22 June 2020 17: 36 New
      0
      The axle load in the Russian Federation is not more than 10 tons. Usually 7-8, in the summer where many are reduced to 5. The standard weight of the truck is 40 tons.
      Count the number of wheels on a tank trawl. There are few axles, but the wheels are 2-3 times larger than usual. And by the way, the speed is pretty limited. Because the impact on the roadway increases sharply with increasing speed.
    3. Alf
      Alf 22 June 2020 18: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Free Wind
      Now bridges are usually designed for 60-100 tons.

      And how many hundred-foot bridge in Europe?
  17. Evil 55
    Evil 55 22 June 2020 14: 40 New
    0
    And in Russia, all bridges are 60 tons .. so these teapots are only for deserts and suitable, even frolic there ..
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 22 June 2020 15: 35 New
      0
      There are no restrictions on federal highways even on bridges. There is an axle load. It’s possible to run into a puny fine. If there are restrictions, then they usually limit the movement to one lane. Well, imagine two trucks of 60 tons converged on a bridge, they did not violate the restrictions, and the bridge collapsed. Somehow I had to turn around and refuse a trip, despite swearing. A day later, a timber truck collapsed from the bridge there.
      1. Evil 55
        Evil 55 22 June 2020 15: 37 New
        0
        “By war” they’ll put ... and restrictions .. and mines in support ..
        1. Alf
          Alf 22 June 2020 18: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Evil 55
          and mines in support ..

          If they are not laid in advance, even during construction.
  18. Zeev
    Zeev zeev 22 June 2020 15: 44 New
    +1
    Quite strange called "reason." The Polish Leopard 2 tanks, which are currently in service, weigh five tons more than the American Abrams, and there should be more damage to the road infrastructure from them. Most likely, the Poles and their allies abandoned the tanks in order to reduce the training time and save on fuel by simply driving wheeled vehicles along the route.
  19. Africaner79
    Africaner79 22 June 2020 15: 56 New
    0
    We are waiting for plans to modernize the infrastructure, otherwise I don’t understand something
  20. polikutin.e
    polikutin.e 23 June 2020 11: 36 New
    0
    What to do, the post-Soviet space and the habit of "laying asphalt everywhere and little by little so that every acupant is stuck on the approaches." And if it’s directly because we don’t have such heavy tanks after the Second World War, it’s not a saving, but infrastructure features, bridges and rough terrain is not a desert and steppe