Military Review

In Taiwan, they announced the discovery of air defense means "stealth" fighter J-20 Chinese Air Force

81

It became known that the Chinese Air Force fighter entered the area of ​​responsibility of Taiwan's air defense. According to Taiwanese media, this is the second appearance of PLA airplanes in the last 4 days. It is noteworthy that a Chinese fighter appeared on the western coast of the island of Taiwan at a time when the U.S. Navy P-8A Poseidon carried out aerial reconnaissance.


According to reports from Chinese information sources, for the first time in a long time, China sent its fifth-generation J-20 fighter to Taiwan's air defense zone. In this regard, the following is emphasized: calculations of Taiwan's air defense systems were discovered and identified by the Chinese Air Force fighter, despite the fact that in China it is defined as "stealth."

In China, information about what the fifth-generation fighter J-20 sent to Taiwan’s air borders is not currently commented on. At the same time, in the Taiwanese media it is noted that the activity of the fighting Chinese aviation over the Taiwan Strait since June 9 has grown significantly. So, from that day to the present day, China sent various fighters to the Taiwanese air borders, including the Su-30 and J-10.

If the Taiwanese information is true, then it turns out that the J-20 is not invisible for the calculation of air defense of the island.

Here it is worth recalling such a fact as the detection of J-20 aircraft of the Chinese Air Force by Su-30MKI Indian Air Force fighters. This happened a few months ago in the area of ​​the Indian-Chinese border. In fairness, it should be noted that information about the discovery of the J-20 then appeared initially in the Indian media. After that, the same media in India repeatedly stated about the problems of the Chinese J-20 with radar stealth.
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  1. strelokmira
    strelokmira 21 June 2020 16: 38
    17 th
    The prize is due to Taiwanese crew for detecting j-20 with Luneberg lenses winked
    1. yfast
      yfast 21 June 2020 16: 56
      32
      So you can always blame the lens if you suddenly find it. Like, I forgot to remove it. Looking at Chinese goods, you always look for and find a catch. Airplanes are no exception. Let them be invisible to the Chinese.
      1. strelokmira
        strelokmira 21 June 2020 17: 00
        -9
        But why remove the lenses not in a fighting position to hide from their dispatching services and arrange an emergency? )
        1. Shurik70
          Shurik70 21 June 2020 17: 26
          +8
          Quote: strelokmira
          Why remove lenses not in a combat position

          So they do not clean. There are reflectors and transponders on all planes, only in military operations they are turned off / removed
          1. 4ekist
            4ekist 21 June 2020 19: 08
            -4
            Perhaps the plane was detected visually.
      2. dauria
        dauria 21 June 2020 17: 11
        36
        So you can always blame the lenses,


        "Lenses-lenses, we see-invisible" I'm tired. Reducing the RCS by a factor of 10 leads to a decrease in the range by a factor of 1,78. That is, there were 200 km, there will be 112 km (with the same probability of correct detection, the roulette laughing ) And in reality it is - it was 3-5 sq m, it became 0,3 -0, 5 sq m. No advertising pin-pong balls (ducks have mallards 0,1 sq m)
        And if he also puts a turn in front of the radar with a roll under 90, he will shine like a Christmas tree with his whole belly.
        In the article, neither range figures, nor type of external suspensions - nothing, but a scream ... No matter how you jump, the form of a glider taking into account a small EPR is already the norm, like camouflage for an infantryman.
        1. Yarhann
          Yarhann 21 June 2020 17: 37
          +8
          I painted everything correctly. just enough adherents of the invisibility sect of the aircraft with the use of stealth technology.
          1. Cowbra
            Cowbra 21 June 2020 19: 07
            +9
            Quote: Yarhann
            just enough adherents of the invisibility sect of LA

            So the money is already about ... Who's kamikaze - stand up and say - "stealth technologies are fucking expensive, they cut performance characteristics and the exhaust from them is a single percentage"? In China they will be shot, in the USA they will not be taken to court. You won't get to the microphone - you will turn on Kennedy. This is money, and they do not joke with them.
            PiSi: if you don’t believe in political killings in the USA (and this is a continuation of the economy), tell us how, for six months, all the witnesses for the prosecution and ALL investigators in the case of violating Clinton's secrecy were glued together by fins? And by the way, why is nobody buzzing on this subject?
            1. Yarhann
              Yarhann 21 June 2020 19: 40
              +9
              politics is just an add-on over the economy, therefore there is nothing surprising that someone is being wetted there - a huge loot is at stake. and most importantly, it’s not murder per se, but its presentation to the people. for example, in order to kill any objectionable politician abroad, it is enough in the media to create the image of an enemy and a terrorist, and justify his nullification. And often after the murder itself))) because the fact itself surfaced. And when this happens quietly, and even the media are under your control, it somehow doesn’t make sense to furnish anything, they slapped well and figs with him. in the capitalist world capital rules, bipeds and their behavior are just a superstructure on this system.
              about the US Air Force and trillions of dough around this topic. The basis of the US Air Force is MFI F16, which for 40 years has been serving and fulfilling all the tasks assigned, and they are undergoing modernization, etc. - but this is not the level of pililov when it comes to new programs. Because the production has already been organized, R&D has been carried out, and F16 is now one of the cheapest military aircraft in the world in operation - here you can’t master a lot of dough. Another bright source of pililov dough is space exploration - which essentially stopped at landing a man on the moon and organizing the ISS in orbit - then there are some kind of inarticulate dances with a tambourine - saw hunting is cut, but there is no motive that everyone will believe in. Commercialization of astronautics (hello Ilon Mask) is just the launch of the same program in the second round.
              As long as there is no ideological competition in the world, everything will revolve around the accumulation and augmentation of capital - and all dances with tambourines will be focused on capital and its interests, for the most part, humanity is just a resource for this process, no matter how sad it may sound.
              1. Cowbra
                Cowbra 21 June 2020 20: 27
                +1
                That is completely in solidarity, I'm afraid of you MASKOT sectarians (or MASKOTS) will peck, or rather they will zamusut - they always have nothing to say
        2. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 29 June 2020 10: 02
          0
          The EPR of the duck is 0,01 and the goose is 0,02 m2.
    2. military_cat
      military_cat 21 June 2020 17: 02
      -2
      Flying in front of an air defense with a lens is like walking in the area of ​​snipers in a T-shirt with a painted target. It is possible, but somehow stupid.
      1. strelokmira
        strelokmira 21 June 2020 17: 05
        -9
        In which zone of snipers, Taiwan's attack on China's aircraft in neutral airspace will be equal to a declaration of war
        Well, the main thing is that our Western and Urashki would turn off their head and rejoice laughing
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 June 2020 17: 09
      +3
      Quote: strelokmira
      The prize is due to Taiwanese crew for detecting j-20 with Luneberg lenses winked

      What award? This is their job, dear. But you, for the fact that you are doing your job regularly, do not receive bonuses every day.
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 21 June 2020 21: 49
        +2
        Quote: NEXUS
        But you, for the fact that you are doing your job regularly, do not receive bonuses every day.

        Well don't tell. I worked on Knight Hack. Everything is not so regular there and the prize for escorting and guiding Sushka to the target was received. But this is the Top secret. Although what is the top. More than 30 years have passed. Here you understand that in our native paramilitary staff, others have a world-wide event hi
    4. knn54
      knn54 21 June 2020 17: 18
      -1
      Perhaps the stealth fighter was discovered due to the so-called "thermal lensing effect": - Ascending air currents combined with hot air from the operation of the aircraft engines.
      In one case, air flows from a mountain massif, in another case, from a water surface.
      1. bk0010
        bk0010 21 June 2020 18: 32
        14
        Quote: knn54
        airflows connected to the hot air from the operation of aircraft engines
        Reminded: "Light from Venus bounced off the upper atmosphere and caused a swamp gas explosion."
      2. sedoj
        sedoj 21 June 2020 19: 46
        +2
        Quote: knn54
        Perhaps the stealth fighter was discovered due to the so-called "thermal lensing effect": - Ascending air currents combined with hot air from the operation of the aircraft engines.
        In one case, air flows from a mountain massif, in another case, from a water surface.

        It is noteworthy that a Chinese fighter appeared on the western coast of the island of Taiwan at a time when the U.S. Navy P-8A Poseidon was conducting aerial reconnaissance there.

        It is quite possible to transfer data from Poseidon to Taiwan's air defense headquarters. It is possible that the equipment of the Chinese intelligence officer sees.
  2. Grazdanin
    Grazdanin 21 June 2020 16: 49
    10
    China's successes in technology are greatly exaggerated, but they learned how cheaply to clone Soviet and Western technology, but no more.
    1. swnvaleria
      swnvaleria 21 June 2020 16: 52
      +5
      but how they scream that they have everything super duper, probably learned from amers, empty
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 21 June 2020 16: 59
        +7
        Quote: swnvaleria
        but how they scream that they have everything super duper, probably learned from amers, empty

        Tell me at least one completely invisible aircraft in all ranges.
        1. swnvaleria
          swnvaleria 21 June 2020 17: 01
          +5
          this is the one that does not fly
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 June 2020 17: 04
            +6
            Quote: swnvaleria
            this is the one that does not fly

            So what is there about invisibility, about shitty among the Chinese, etc. we argue? Air defense nicknames were required to detect the offender, and do not care, J-20 is Raptor or our SU-57. EVERYTHING CLOSES AND EVERYTHING APPEARS. That is why there is a term-LOW-MOTION, not invisibility.
            1. Yarhann
              Yarhann 21 June 2020 17: 38
              12
              the term stealth is, but there is also a sect of adepts of the aircraft invisibility with stealth technology)))
              theirs stealth - this is not our stealth)) the difference must be understood))))
        2. orionvitt
          orionvitt 21 June 2020 17: 14
          +8
          Quote: NEXUS
          Tell me at least one completely invisible aircraft in all ranges

          Offhand, right away. Fu-35 and this, the most, Chinese. So at least manufacturers say. laughing In general, the topic of radar "invisibility", in the USSR, was buried back in the 50s. Moreover, at the level of fundamental scientific research. And so, all this "invisibility", only for the "Papuans".
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 June 2020 17: 19
            +3
            Quote: orionvitt
            So at least manufacturers say.

            Yeah ... like there at Semenych -... the triangle will be drunk, let it be a parallelepiped .... fellow
        3. Klingon
          Klingon 22 June 2020 02: 07
          +2
          Quote: NEXUS
          Quote: swnvaleria
          but how they scream that they have everything super duper, probably learned from amers, empty

          Tell me at least one completely invisible aircraft in all ranges.

          Please) - Klingon "Bird of Prey" (class D12 until 2350, subsequently upgraded to class K "Vorta) - there was only one prototype that could fire photon torpedoes with the cloaking device turned on while remaining invisible in all ranges (Star Trek V" The Last Frontier" )
      2. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 21 June 2020 16: 59
        -8
        They learned from Russia)) The Americans either state facts that they would not condemn or scare their senate with a threat from the east in order to dislodge financing))
      3. Gorecc
        Gorecc 21 June 2020 17: 30
        +2
        no more than others shout .. well, their army is now really super-duper against the background of what it was literally 20 years ago. A huge qualitative leap has been made, and not only in the military sphere.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 21 June 2020 18: 43
          +1
          Yes, they had a good one 20 years ago. Now better technically.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 21 June 2020 18: 00
      +5
      And with aircraft engines for fighters you can’t do it.
  3. Oleg kubanoid
    Oleg kubanoid 21 June 2020 16: 53
    +2
    without details, this is empty news .. as well as the 5th generation Chinese fighter ..
  4. NEXUS
    NEXUS 21 June 2020 16: 58
    +3
    What for the puppy squeals? Stealth technology is not a technology of absolute invisibility, but only LOW-DISTANCE. Well spotted so what? If they didn’t "see", it would be possible with a clear conscience to send the calculation and command of the air defense of Taiwan to retire.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 21 June 2020 17: 13
      -3
      If not irony, then the stealth gives you the opportunity to use these opportunities for years of training pilots. The very same Israel with experienced, well-trained pilots in 4th generation aircraft performs its tasks with absolute impunity. Arabs lose the same aircraft out of the blue.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 21 June 2020 17: 16
        +7
        Quote: Grazdanin
        The very same Israel with experienced, well-trained pilots in 4th generation aircraft performs its tasks with absolute impunity.

        This is more likely not because the Israelis are such super aces, but because either the Jews work without flying beyond the borders of Lebanon itself, or the poor preparation of the Syrian and Iranian air defense calculations. Plus, probably an elementary policy ... they saw, but there is no order to bring down.
        1. Grazdanin
          Grazdanin 21 June 2020 17: 22
          15 th
          1. They are super professional, with vast combat experience.
          2. They have the best airplanes.
          3. Everyone understands what will happen to people who bring down an Israeli plane. When they began to forget, the Syrian shells were destroyed
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 21 June 2020 20: 26
            +2
            Super professionalism is to launch the KR from a range of 400 km? I don’t think so, so it’s not worth comparing the non-Russians with the pilots Hel Khavir who saved Israel in the wars of the late 60s and early 70s .... Everything changes ....
            what will happen to people who bring down an Israeli plane. When they started to forget

            Shot down, there was nothing. The rest is the tales of the Viennese forest.
            Syrian shells were destroyed

            One destroyed, one probably damaged.
            1. Grazdanin
              Grazdanin 21 June 2020 20: 36
              11 th
              On February 10, 2018, an Israeli F-16I Sufa was shot down due to a professional crew error, two pilots were injured. In response, the Israeli Air Force dealt a massive blow to 12 targets in Syria, including 3 air defense batteries and 4 Iranian communications and intelligence facilities.

              On November 24, 2015, the Russian Su-24M front-line bomber was shot down by an air-to-air missile launched by the Turkish Air Force F-16C fighter, one pilot died and another was wounded. In response, millions of angry comments were written in Russian-language websites and publics.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 21 June 2020 21: 35
                +2
                Quote: Grazdanin
                including 3 air defense batteries

                I don’t know about the one hundred pizza object of the Iranian communications and radio reconnaissance, but bad results with confirming the results of attacks on 3 batteries. But I don’t believe anyone’s word.
                So the tales of the Vienna forest ...
                In response, millions of angry comments were written in Russian-language websites and publics.

                In the USA in 1987, millions of angry comments would probably have been written if they had Internet access then. But it would be easier for Israel if we had such a roof, probably 60 KR would be slapped across Ankara ...
                1. Grazdanin
                  Grazdanin 21 June 2020 22: 14
                  -5
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  In the USA in 1987,

                  What are we talking about?

                  Yes, it’s easier for Israel, they don’t sell air defense systems to a country that intentionally shot down a plane.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 21 June 2020 22: 23
                    +2
                    What are we talking about?

                    They didn’t hear about Stark ...
                    Quote: Grazdanin
                    Yes, it’s easier for Israel, they don’t sell air defense systems to a country that intentionally shot down a plane.

                    In the elderberry garden and in KIEV UNCLE? THERE WAS NOT ANYTHING TO SAY BUT VERY WANTED? UNDERSTAND....
                    1. Grazdanin
                      Grazdanin 21 June 2020 22: 42
                      -4
                      Ahh, are you talking about a US ship that was accidentally attacked by a plane from that country whose US army annihilated twice? And paid 400 million dollars to the families of the victims?
                      1. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 21 June 2020 23: 04
                        0
                        I haven't been in a ditch with you, so keep yourself in the "buddy" box. And by the way, it was much later .. However, I remember you are not right about the money ..
        2. Vitaly gusin
          Vitaly gusin 21 June 2020 18: 01
          10 th
          Quote: NEXUS
          , but because either Jews work without flying beyond the borders of Lebanon

          This is not entirely true.
          They fly in from where they consider it necessary.
          And Lebanon is an excuse for those who write "unidentified flying objects. "
        3. Yarhann
          Yarhann 21 June 2020 18: 31
          +6
          It depends on the weapon they use - if you let the CR in coordinates or PRR, then it’s clear that you don’t need to fly anywhere. If you need to find a moving object - let's say a column of hezbollah technology, then it’s understandable that they fly at point blank range to establish optical contact for GOS missiles.
          Why does air defense not work - well, as it were, but what's the point? Israel pursues its goals and they, in principle, are on the same plane as Assad - that is, to drive out Iranian mercenaries from their territory (after the defeat of ISIS, there are no sense in this mass of militants from Iran), Israel to drive them away from the border with Lebanon (suppressing the traffic of militants and weapons ) Work through Lebanon for Israel’s pilots is familiar because the main area of ​​responsibility is there - it is there that a large agency base merges information on the movement of Hezbollah fighters and weapons.
          Well, the main thing is to find the plane is not a problem and shoot down too, but we must give an order to use weapons. that is, to take responsibility for the downed side — it could be anyone’s plane, how the Russian RTR plane was shot down, how the Ukrainian passenger side in Iran was shot down.
          when the Israelis begin to greyhound and step on corns, their planes shoot down - this is just a warning that they are not standing in full view. everyone understands everything perfectly, no one needs an open confrontation between Israel and Syria, everyone makes a profit from the current situation, and in the event of a collapse, it reminds me of downed planes or destroyed air defense systems.
          And to believe that no one sees and cannot bring down planes in such a small patch of territory - well, this must be a complete idiot.
          1. Avior
            Avior 21 June 2020 19: 34
            -6
            Read carefully the reports of Israeli strikes.
            Often they can’t determine whether it was an airstrike or saboteurs blew up something
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 21 June 2020 20: 28
              0
              And what are you surprised at in the absence of a continuous radar field over Syria?
              1. Vitaly gusin
                Vitaly gusin 22 June 2020 09: 26
                +2
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                And what are you surprised at in the absence of a continuous radar field over Syria?

                “The S-300 is capable of intercepting air attack weapons at ranges of more than 250 km and simultaneously hit several air targets,” said Shoigu.
                The supplies to the Syrian troops of the automated control system will ensure the centralized control of the Syrian air defense, monitoring the air situation and the prompt issuance of target designations, "Shoigu said in a statement.
                Shoigu also promised that "henceforth, in the areas adjacent to Syria over the Mediterranean Sea, electronic suppression of satellite navigation, airborne radars and communication systems of military aircraft attacking objects on Syrian territory will be carried out."
                If you can, link his statement and your comment.
                The set minus does not reflect the state of affairs and does not affect my opinion.
                Thank you.
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 22 June 2020 13: 26
                  0
                  Quote: Vitaly Gusin
                  If you can, link his statement and your comment.


                  Elementary. You probably also do not know that the earth is round.
                  Once again, the discovery of even such an air target as the F-16 hung by the tsatskas as a Christmas tree for focal piecewise air defense, which is Syria’s air defense, cannot be solved in general. Even the relatively modern OVC station provides a F-16 range of no more than 200-250 km. And then for the high-altitude goal. For a low altitude target, the range drops at times. Hardly more than 40 km with any luck. So understandable? And the main thing is that a lot of radars are needed, there isn’t very much so that they corny provide multiple overlapping of detection zones. F-35 for a powerful station of the Gamma or Casta class, the target is completely detectable at an adequate distance, however, this distance on the high-altitude target is not much higher than the D-throw of that small bomb. That is, with an adequate tactics of problems there, in principle, I do not see either.
                  Stealth here essentially does not play any role. This is a mod + means to reduce the likelihood of capturing the ARGSN CC. The heads there are trite frail. And therefore, roughly knowing the location of the radar, and Israel’s RTR means are observing Syria, you can fly anywhere and anytime around the clock if you have correctly laid the route, which I think no one has any doubts about. However, the same thing applies to essentially any country, with the exception of areas such as KOR that are repeatedly blocked by airborne surveillance equipment.

                  And the adherents of "the only true doctrine" have stuck the minuses above the roof. Aggravation must be assumed. Well, people like it. It happens. When you don't like the answers.
                  So no matter what the child was amusing. (from.)
                  1. Vitaly gusin
                    Vitaly gusin 22 June 2020 15: 25
                    0
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    Elementary. You probably also do not know that the earth is round.

                    No, I guessed that it was round.
                    In general, I agree with your thoughts and there is no objection, but I had a different question.
                    What to do with the statements of the Minister of Defense, which I quoted above.
                    This statement has excited both the media and many here and now are still in an excited state. And no one asked why what he promised was not fulfilled. Didn’t he know that the Earth was round.
                2. DV_Doronin_AVE
                  DV_Doronin_AVE 23 June 2020 02: 41
                  0
                  there is a collection book "Antey" about all the products that this concern has produced and produces, there is a lot written about the S-300, it is enough that it detects the S-300 Izratyatina already on the ground because 400 km is the detection radius, and 250 km is the guaranteed radius destruction, so these F-15,16,18, XNUMX, XNUMX fly beyond the Golan Heights and missiles shoot either their territory of Jordan, or rising over the Golanshchina and hiding their tail back, tk. nerves will immediately be naughty ...
                  1. Vitaly gusin
                    Vitaly gusin 23 June 2020 12: 12
                    0
                    Quote: DV_Doronin_AVE
                    there is a collection book "Antey"

                    There is a book, but there is reality, but I wrote about something else. Read my post yesterday at 9:26, the answer of Cyril at 13:26 and mine at 15:25, and if you can answer, only without leaving the topic.
                    Quote: DV_Doronin_AVE
                    therefore, these F-15,16,18 fly beyond the Golan Heights and missiles bullet either their territory in Jordan, or rising above the Golan and hiding their tail back, because nerves will immediately be naughty ...

                    You do not quite own the map and the situation in the region.

                    1 Beyond the Golan Heights, this is Israel, as are the Golan itself.
                    2 Jordan is a state with which a peace agreement has been concluded and the violation of its borders is not acceptable.
                    3 From the Golan, Syria opens up at a glance and has nowhere to hide either the tail or other parts. At the highest point of the Golan Mount Hemon there are tracking stations, each take-off of an aircraft or the operation of a radar or REP is instantly monitored.
            2. Yarhann
              Yarhann 21 June 2020 20: 51
              0
              I’m talking about accounting exclusively for manned aircraft, and the fact that thousands of objects fly in the sky of Syria every day is a fact - flying KR, RS, shells, mines, UAVs and so on - accounting for such small objects is possible only in local areas - that is, let's say where they work missile defense systems such as the Shell or Iron Dome, as well as counter-battery warfare such as the Zoo, or the warning of an attack like Tseva Adam.
              The effectiveness of such complexes as the Shell or the Iron Dome is not questioned - a sufficiently high percentage of interception of various means of attack is proof of this. But such effective systems are not omnipotent, because it is necessary to destroy the carriers of the attack means themselves - aircraft, UAVs, MLRS systems, mortars and so on - and this, as a rule, is already not part of the responsibilities of such systems, and again, the calculation must have authority to attack similar aircraft. All the same, the KR, RS or mine - without a doubt, are a means of attack and are obligatory for destruction - and in the case of an aircraft, not those whom they wanted could be killed.
              1. Avior
                Avior 21 June 2020 21: 16
                -4
                I mean, see or not see the planes and their attacks
                Often they just don’t see, not to bring down
                1. Yarhann
                  Yarhann 21 June 2020 21: 46
                  +2
                  how do you imagine that the aircraft do not see the radar? Did he dematerialize, did the EM waves stop reflecting from him? Each complex and calculation has its own task, if you think that the planes are invisible to the radar, well, I can’t help you with anything. I can assume the conditions under which the aircraft will be invisible to the radar — that is, beyond the natural barriers of the radar signals — hills, mountains, the natural curvature of the earth (air defense breakthrough at very low altitudes) and TP, knowing the location of the alleged location of the air defense system (this is the work of RTR) Bypass dangerous areas, and make a blow from the jump. That is, the options for air defense are enough especially if it is full of holes and without an air component. Such tactics were quite successfully practiced back in the 70s and were quite effective, but then powerful airborne radars appeared, as on the same Mig 31 interceptor and AWACS aircraft, which completely prevented the low-altitude air defense breakthrough. A low-flying aircraft is easy prey for any fighter at altitude. Therefore, we further went along the path of introducing stealth and using the long-range WTO. At the moment, more precisely, somewhere in the early 90s, the stealth limit was reached on the same f117 - the bomber did not have any active detection means only RTR and optics, a target illumination laser was used to guide the WTO. But even these aircraft were quite noticeable to the radar, as a result, the program was closed, simply because such a highly specialized aircraft was a big waste of money (a crutch in the form of f22 was made to protect it from hawks). Preference was given to more long-range means of attack and the use of conventional MFIs - which, in principle, we have seen in the last 20 years as part of the same US Air Force - where the basis is the good old F16 and various WTOs. Then there were studies on the use of stealth in fighter aircraft - f22, this aircraft was essentially the crutch for the project f117 - because f 117 was defenseless against hawks. As a result, crutches were thrown and created the F35 - maybe it is not as inconspicuous as the f117 - but at least it is an IFI - that is, a full-fledged modern combat complex.
                  Why am I - yes, it’s all possible to bypass the ground-based air defense system is quite possible, but the stealth limit was reached back in the 90s and the radar detection range of aircraft was already sufficient then to guarantee their destruction - that’s why in modern times no one drives the long-range airborne weapons and tactics of using carriers not canceled.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 21 June 2020 22: 03
                    -4
                    In general, radars generally see planes within their capabilities of course
                    But I'm about specific cases.
                    The next morning, after the strike, a picture was often observed that the Syrians could not say that there was a general air raid.
                    From which the obvious conclusion is, they could not be brought down, because they were not seen.
                    And why didn’t you see, this is a separate issue
                    1. Yarhann
                      Yarhann 21 June 2020 22: 20
                      +1
                      what didn’t you see? An aircraft or a means of attack, if an aircraft then it is impossible not to see the radar from the word at all (except for the tactics of application described by me above), but the means of attack are quite small and inconspicuous, the range of their detection is limited to units of km - and here it all depends on the agility of the operators and time system reactions - as I wrote above, the shell and iron dome complex are the best of their kind, but they cannot provide 100% detection and destruction of attack facilities. And the main thing is not to think that every object in Syria is protected by at least one shell, and the range of its effective work by means of attack, as I wrote above, is limited to units of kilometers. Take an interest in the same organization of the missile defense iron dome - it is effective, but also not 100%.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 21 June 2020 22: 30
                        -1
                        It was the planes that did not see, if the question of the air raid did not even arise
                      2. Yarhann
                        Yarhann 21 June 2020 22: 58
                        0
                        Well, that means the radars were off - there is some kind of operating mode.
        4. Vitaly gusin
          Vitaly gusin 21 June 2020 23: 05
          -1
          Quote: Yarhann
          Why does air defense not work - well, how would it make sense?

          Something is wrong
          New attack: Damascus repelled rocket attacks
          Reflection of Syrian air defense missile strike on Damascus hit the video
          Lydia Misnik 06.02.2020/10/31, XNUMX:XNUMX
          Syrian air defenses repelled an air attack over western Damascus. This was announced by the government TV channel "Suria".
          Quote: Yarhann
          when the Israelis begin to greyhound and step on corns, their planes shoot down

          Please write WHEN AND HOW MUCH (about 29.11.2018 everyone knows the reason too)
          Quote: Yarhann
          And to believe that no one sees and cannot bring down planes in such a small patch of territory - well it must be a complete idiot .

          Of course they see only the question WHAT, HOW MUCH AND WHERE.
          Israeli "opener" air defense systems
          November 17 2014

          https://topwar.ru/62605-izrailskaya-otkryvashka-sistem-pvo.html
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 21 June 2020 17: 36
    +7
    It seems to me that the national "invisible" only native air defense and do not see. what
  • Alex 2020
    Alex 2020 21 June 2020 17: 53
    -1
    Luneberg's lens stood for sure. To hide the true parameters and for the safety of GA.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 21 June 2020 18: 12
    +4
    "it turns out that the J-20 is not invisible for the calculations of the island's air defense" ///
    ----
    It is likely that the J-20, flying with lenses, probed Taiwan's air defense.
    1. Yarhann
      Yarhann 21 June 2020 18: 35
      +2
      for probing air defense use rtr aircraft.
    2. swnvaleria
      swnvaleria 21 June 2020 18: 38
      0
      Well, I think that to test the air defense it would not be worth driving a stealth plane with lenses, so that later competitors would shout that the new plane was absolutely not stealth, but it would be possible to drive some kind of reconnaissance aircraft with a large EPR and open the air defense, as well as some kind of anti-advertising
  • Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 21 June 2020 18: 50
    +1
    So not so "invisible" and invisible? winked
    And the Chinese also praised their new air defense systems, maybe then they also do not reach the level?
  • Well done
    Well done 21 June 2020 19: 50
    +1
    The notorious "stealth" is easy to spot in the infrared spectrum. By the radio signals emitted by them themselves, and there are heaps of them, starting from the on-board radar and banal radio communications, and all kinds of "smart" weapons are simply phoning. By the way, even REBs (on an airplane) are given out. They interfere with targeting, but not detection. The "friend or foe" system in the same opera. And how many more do the pros anti-aircraft gunners know? Like turbulence, etc.? We all know about the surprise over Yugoslavia, F-117. wink
  • 123456789
    123456789 21 June 2020 20: 07
    0
    Quote: NEXUS
    Tell me at least one completely invisible aircraft in all ranges.

    Su-57 - do you see it? But he is!
  • APASUS
    APASUS 21 June 2020 20: 11
    +2
    For me, more money has been invested in advertising the theory of "invisibility" of aircraft than in the aircraft itself! People began to believe in her without going into details, although this is complete nonsense.
  • Karaul73
    Karaul73 21 June 2020 20: 15
    +1
    And the king is naked, it turns out!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • strelokmira
    strelokmira 21 June 2020 20: 29
    -4
    And in the joyful puppy bark merged the festoons, and the local screams,
    We see, we see they screamed ...
    Only the Chinese j-20 pilots smiled and waved their tail at all this rabble
    wink hi
  • svp67
    svp67 21 June 2020 20: 39
    0
    There is no invisible technique, but there is only LOW-MIXED. What the Taiwanese were able to detect the J-20 is good, but I would like to know at what distance ... right under your side, at the range of missile launch, or even on take-off?
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 21 June 2020 21: 02
    0
    "despite the fact that in China itself it is defined as" stealth "it would be more correct to say: ALMOST" stealth "
  • Avior
    Avior 21 June 2020 22: 14
    +1
    I don’t know why no one paid attention.
    Taiwanese say their radar detected j-20
    Mainland Chinese did not confirm this
    There are obvious questions.
    1. Did they just find that it was some kind of interference, or did the Chinese experience a distracting trap or did a flock of birds fly? Is there evidence that the plane really was there? Or did they just see some obscure mark and decided that it was a plane?
    2. How was it determined that it was j20?
    Was his transponder turned on?
    If not, I can’t imagine how they identified j20 so uniquely by label?
    In order for the Taiwanese to claim that they have discovered j20, you first need to get an iron confirmation that this is it, for example, by visual identification
    But not a word about it.
  • Charik
    Charik 21 June 2020 22: 35
    +1
    how you stuck, there are no invisibles, only if in movies or fairy tales
  • Revolver
    Revolver 21 June 2020 22: 51
    +2
    Chinese stealth is the most noticeable stealth in the world.
  • Tom Johnson
    Tom Johnson 22 June 2020 00: 43
    +1
    Rivets just like the Su-57- look at the front of a F-35 and the smooth facia.
  • Tom Johnson
    Tom Johnson 22 June 2020 01: 42
    0
    Chinese junk, rivets and leading edge design as well as those stupid canards matter.
  • 5-9
    5-9 22 June 2020 09: 38
    0
    How about a plane with PGO can we say that it is inconspicuous ???
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 22 June 2020 13: 28
      0
      You just have to believe in it
  • DV_Doronin_AVE
    DV_Doronin_AVE 23 June 2020 02: 31
    0
    the less noticeable, the more likely we will have to buy more of ours, they need to compare at the first war (combat use), but no one is rocking ...