Military Review

Bars-8MMK: mortar without mortar

43

Self-propelled mortar "Bars-8MMK" in the stowed position


Since 2016, Ukrainian industry has shown at the exhibitions the promising self-propelled mortar Bars-8MMK. In the future, this project was brought to the assembly of the first batch of small sizes and even to acceptance tests. However, this all stopped - the army refused to accept low-quality products. Because of this, processing of the project began, but its prospects remain unclear.

Joint development


The first prototype of the future mortar based on the Bars-8 armored car was presented in the fall of 2016. The project was developed with the most active participation of foreign experts. The state concern Ukroboronprom signed an agreement with the Spanish company Everis Aeroespacial y Defensa SLU (EAD) on the purchase of finished components for promising Ukrainian technology.

The project under the designation "Bars-8MMK" ("Mobile mortar complex") proposed the use of the Ukrainian assembly as the base of the Bars-8 armored car. It should have been equipped with Spanish-made Alakran UKR-MMS mortar system components. Mortar barrels were to be delivered by one of the Ukrainian enterprises.


In the expanded position - loading is carried out

The first samples of new technology appeared and went on trial in 2018-19. In August 2019, Spanish and Ukrainian industry completed the first batch of six new-type self-propelled mortars. Soon they were handed over for acceptance tests before being put into service. As the Ukrobornprom Group of Companies reported, the machines were tested. Now they could begin service in parts of the ground forces.

Technical features


The basis of the complex "Bars-8MMK" is a two-axle all-wheel drive armored car "Bars-8" on a commercial chassis Dodge Ram, equipped with bulletproof and anti-shatter protection. All units of the mortar complex are mounted inside the armored housing; some are deployed when deployed.

In the front of the armored cab, the driver’s workstation was saved and the post of commander with the necessary electronics was organized. Behind them at the sides, behind large doors, are two racks from the Alakran complex, each accommodates 30 minutes of 120 mm caliber. Between the racks there is space for the shooter controlling the machine gun on the roof.


The mortar system retracts inside the housing

At the rear of the hull is a retractable device with guidance mechanisms and a mortar, developed by the Spanish side. In the transport position, this system is located inside the armored car. Before firing, the hydraulic drives drive it out and set it on the ground. There are remotely controlled aiming drives that provide firing in a 60 ° wide sector to the right and left of the longitudinal axis with elevations from 45 to 85 degrees.

Data processing for firing and fire control is carried out from the commander and gunner's consoles. The first is located in the cockpit, the second - on board the armored car. The Spanish-made equipment independently processes the incoming data and gives out pickup angles, and then controls the operation of the drives. There is satellite navigation and other components necessary for a modern mortar.

As armament, the Bars-8MMK uses a Ukrainian copy of the Soviet 120-mm 2B11 muzzle-loading mortar. The shot is carried out by self-stabbing or using the trigger. For the movement of mines from racks to the muzzle end, mortars are responsible. The declared combat characteristics as a whole remained at the level of the base model.


Installation in combat position

It is alleged that the Bars-8MMK is capable of quickly reaching a firing position, realizing binding, calculating data for firing, deploying and pointing the gun and opening fire. After firing, the position is withdrawn in the shortest possible time. In case of a collision with the enemy there is a turret with a machine gun and smoke grenade launchers. Calculation - 3 people.

Failed tests


In the recent past, the developers of the complex reported on the successful completion of tests and delivery of equipment to the customer. However, as it now became known, the army did not take mortars because of the presence of significant shortcomings. Six ready-made machines are sent for storage and stand idle waiting for a solution to the identified problems.

Such a development of events on June 18, 2020 was reported by the Ukrainian edition of Defense Express. According to him, the Bars-8MMK was not accepted due to problems with the main armament. The first drawback is the dubious quality of the trunks. Also, the manufacturer still has not provided the army with a table for firing from such weapons.


External fire control

Thus, in its present form and in its current configuration, the self-propelled mortar complex cannot conduct targeted fire, which makes it almost useless. In addition, the reliability and resource of the mortar itself raise questions - and make it dangerous not only for the enemy, but also for his own calculation. Moreover, this is not the first история with low-quality mortars of Ukrainian production. It is distinguished only by the absence of accidents, injuries and victims, as in the past.

Attempt to solve


It is reported that measures are already being taken to correct the identified deficiencies. The main one is the replacement of low-quality trunks with new products. The new supplier of mortars was the company "Ukrainian armored vehicles". She delivered a number of trunks of a new production, repeating the design of the original product. Now they are being tested.

The main difficulties in the testing are related to determining the resource of the trunks - such checks take the most time. During the test, the mortar must withstand 5 thousand shots at a set pace and breaks. To date, testers have completed approx. 3 thousand shots - more than half of the entire program.


Replacing the artillery part of the complex will require the use of new firing tables and appropriately refine the fire control system - such work should not take much time. Ukrainian sources report that the finalization of Bars-8MMK is being carried out at the highest possible pace, but the timing of its completion remains unknown.

Mortar without mortar


Thus, there was a more than interesting situation around Bars-8MMK products. The prospective project of the mortar complex has been successfully brought to the stage of production, testing and transfer to the troops, but its operation is not possible. Moreover, the source of problems was the key component - the mortar barrel, which determines the combat capabilities of the machine of the entire complex.

As for the other elements of the combat vehicle, the situation with them is much better. Armored cars "Bars-8" has not yet caused serious complaints. The Spanish complex EAD Alakran exists in several versions, is mass-produced, delivered to different countries and receives good reviews. However, the fate of the complex depends not only on high-quality means of guidance.


Measures have already been taken, but their effectiveness is still in question. To replace the defective copy of the 2B11, the new mortar has to go through a full test cycle and prove its reliability. Otherwise, history will go to a new circle with the next replacement of weapons and subsequent checks. It should be borne in mind that without a quality mortar the whole project has no meaning.

The project still has certain chances of success, and in this case, very interesting and promising self-propelled mortars will get to the combat units. However, in this case, problems are possible. So far, there are only six Bars-8MMK units, and the possibility of building new ones raises questions for economic and technological reasons. Time will tell what the ending of this story will be.

However, the events surrounding the new Ukrainian-Spanish project are not surprising. The problems of Ukrainian-made mortars have long been well known. The inability of Ukraine to independently produce high-quality military equipment in large quantities is not a secret either. Thus, even with the best outcome, Barca-8MMK will not be able to become truly massive and will not affect the combat effectiveness of the army - which is also in far from the best condition. With a different turn of events, this will be just another failure.
Author:
Photos used:
GK "Ukroboronprom" / ukroboronprom.com.ua
43 comments
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  1. Sergey_G_M
    Sergey_G_M 22 June 2020 06: 06 New
    10
    Well, such a system for itself, the calculation of the mortar from the outside, according to normal, such systems are done with shooting through the sunroof and with the calculation in the back.
    But NONA-SVK, in general, will be much better, albeit seriously older.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 22 June 2020 06: 26 New
      -2
      and make it dangerous not only for the enemy, but also for their own calculation.
      He in a stowed position can shoot in the back of the driver! request
    2. Flamberg
      Flamberg 22 June 2020 06: 37 New
      0
      Well, such a system for itself, the calculation of the mortar from the outside, according to normal, such systems are done with shooting through the sunroof and with the calculation in the back.

      That is probably a system with a caliber of less than 120. The leopard will probably crumble when firing through the hatch.

      But NONA-SVK, in general, will be much better, albeit seriously older.

      Well, nona has operating costs higher, which naturally does not make her worse or better.
      1. venik
        venik 22 June 2020 08: 27 New
        0
        Quote: Flamberg
        Well, nona and operating costs are higher

        ========
        Well, for such a statement, you must at least know the operating costs of this very Bars-8MMK! And then there is complete uncertainty ..... So, that - God knows him - maybe not even much higher, or even not higher...... request
      2. venik
        venik 22 June 2020 08: 30 New
        -1
        Quote: Flamberg
        That is probably a system with a caliber of less than 120. The leopard will probably crumble when firing through the hatch.

        ========
        Well, "to crumble" - it may not crumble .... But the accuracy and accuracy will be oo-oo-oo-oo ......- "to whom will God send" well, or "plus or minus one mare" ! bully
    3. Flamberg
      Flamberg 22 June 2020 06: 43 New
      +2
      I'm sorry hi . Nona based on 8x8, yes, it looks better in every sense.
    4. svp67
      svp67 22 June 2020 07: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      Well, such a system

      Normal system ... mobile.
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      normally such systems do with shooting through the sunroof and with the calculation in the back.

      Everyone has their own approach ... But here's what is interesting ... Here is the Georgian 120-mm CM "Aybat" The same similar scheme ...

      Which once again convinces me that all the "breakthroughs" in armament, that Ukraine, that Georgia are carried out from one "center"
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      normally such systems do with shooting through the sunroof and with the calculation in the back.

      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 23 June 2020 15: 19 New
        +1
        A mine jumped out of the barrel, the crew scattered. Waited for the lines "to be continued"
        Alas sad
        I once observed the operation of the mortar crew (Kishim). The shooting stopped, and a fighter ran away from the mortar, with the comments "demobilization in danger". I looked into the caponier (?) And there were two fighters. behind the base plate, trotted the mortar (barrel down). The third held the opening of his palm under the barrel. As I understand it, they were shaking out a mine that had not taken off.
        1. svp67
          svp67 23 June 2020 15: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: Bad_gr
          A mine jumped out of the barrel, the calculation ran away.

          Well, something like "demobilization in danger" ...
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Waited for the lines "to be continued"
          Alas

          There is the best to write "life goes on" ...
          Quote: Bad_gr
          As I understand it, they shook out a mine that did not fly out.

          By the way, it's an interesting topic, but how to shake it out of these "self-propelled" vehicles? Crane or what?
    5. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 22 June 2020 07: 48 New
      0
      I agree. One small piece or a problem in the hydraulic system, so what? Leave the car or try to leave with such an "anchor" in a combat position? !!
      This type of weapon is for war when "response" is not possible.
      It’s interesting, but how can one doubt the quality of the barrel, if there is a video of how they shoot from mortars? !! Most likely they did not provide a full package of bureaucratic documents for certification ...
      1. Sergey_G_M
        Sergey_G_M 22 June 2020 07: 57 New
        0
        Ukrainians had problems with mortars, Soviet decommunized (stolen or ran out), but their own does not work:
        https://topwar.ru/144153-myagkiy-molot-ukrainskie-eksperty-o-vyyavlennom-brake-noveyshih-minometov.html
        But I did not understand about the shooting tables in the article, like the mortar is a complete copy of ours, the shooting tables should seem to match.
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 22 June 2020 08: 00 New
          0
          You are slightly mistaken. Of the twelve known cases of mortar explosions, four are still Soviet. But by inertia, journalists call all these cases "hammers". In the net there are even official reasons for each case, I don't remember them anymore ... But I don't know the tables. Maybe because of the massive base plate, the degrees of inclination do not coincide with ours? In general, the data is applied to the video through the control panel on board!
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 23 June 2020 15: 30 New
            0
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            Of the twelve known cases of mortar explosions, four are still Soviet.

            Well, if you plant a mine on a mine, then, of course, it doesn’t matter when the trunk was released.
            I came across a video from ATO, where a "specialist" lowered a mine into the barrel with a shank up.
        2. Kuroneko
          Kuroneko 22 June 2020 11: 03 New
          -2
          Quote: Sergey_G_M
          Ukrainians had problems with mortars, Soviet decommunized (stolen or ran out), but their own does not work:

          Ukraine has a systemic problem with barrel production. That mortar, that tank. The same 2B11 is just the basis for the "Hammer" too (and it is he who is included in our mortar complex "Sleigh"). Well, there were no factories in Ukraine for the production of gun barrels. And the new Nedothe country of Raguli is unlikely to be able to create on its own.
    6. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 22 June 2020 11: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      Well, such a system

      normal system. Extremely automated and mobile.
      Quote: Sergey_G_M
      normally such systems do with shooting through the sunroof and with the calculation in the body

      for this chassis the class should be heavier. Here, all the rules - the return on the shot is taken not by the chassis, but by the ground. And it becomes possible to install a fairly powerful 120-mm mortar on a light chassis.
      The Barca clotting speed is only 25 seconds.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 22 June 2020 14: 52 New
        -1
        Quote: Gregory_45
        normal system. Extremely automated and mobile.

        And so the Spaniards abandoned it.
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 22 June 2020 17: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          And so the Spaniards abandoned her

          have you refused? Or did it export?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 22 June 2020 19: 57 New
            +1
            Quote: Gregory_45
            have you refused?

            Yes
            We decided to replace the Israeli ones, eventually came to a copy of them with the same caliber 81 mm EIMOS
            1. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 22 June 2020 21: 11 New
              0
              81 is not 120 mm.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 22 June 2020 21: 57 New
                0
                Quote: Gregory_45
                81 is not 120 mm.

                How to say ... NATO's "long" is 0.7 kg "Composition B" (RDX / TNT) Our 3OF5 is 1.25 kg at best TD-50, or even ammonotol
    7. Vicontas
      Vicontas 23 June 2020 18: 00 New
      0
      This unfinished Ukrainian matryoshka seems to work only at exhibitions and will work!
  2. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 22 June 2020 06: 42 New
    -1
    With the Sumerians, as usual, everything is in one place. In normal self-propelled mortars, mortars are fired through the roof hatch, so there is no need for a hydraulic drive as in this "miracle" of the Ukroboronprom, and time is not wasted on putting the mortar in and out. Also, the calculation does not need to go outside, which again saves time, plus the calculation is constantly under the protection of armor. And then the ukrovoeny will be forced to run back and forth with mines in their hands to load the mortar.
    1. igordok
      igordok 22 June 2020 07: 09 New
      +1
      Calculation - 3 people

      It will not be enough. (with)
    2. Bormanxnumx
      Bormanxnumx 22 June 2020 07: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      For the Sumerians, as usual, everything is in one place. In normal self-propelled mortars, mortars are fired through the roof hatch, so there is no need for a hydraulic drive, as in this "miracle" of the ukroboronprom, and time is not wasted on putting the mortar in and out

      But what about the Orthodox self-propelled mortar MZ-204 "Highlander"? repeat
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 22 June 2020 15: 25 New
        0
        Quote: BORMAN82
        But what about the Orthodox self-propelled mortar MZ-204 "Highlander"?

        Just like the non-Orthodox LePzMrs, a very niche device. With a bunch of flaws
    3. svp67
      svp67 22 June 2020 07: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      Sumerians, as usual, all through one place.

      It is not from them, they take what they are given. In this case, they were given the basic solutions of this Spanish SM "Alakran"


    4. georgiigennadievitch
      georgiigennadievitch 22 June 2020 07: 55 New
      0
      Yes, the whole installation as a whole is kind of ill-conceived, raw and has little to offer, except for a vehicle and bulletproof fragmentation protection. It seems that the most interesting and promising part of this product is the satellite’s gun navigation and guidance system. It’s interesting how and by whom there is monitoring of the results of fire and its adjustment? A mortar using an automatic loading system and a crew located inside that seems promising it’s like a tank one. And the mortar itself with the stove can be pulled out and retracted, and not necessarily inside, but outside. In this case, the mass of the self-propelled armored mortar decreases, the increased ammunition load and other requirements for the installation chassis, because this is not necessary will withstand recoil from shots.
    5. Grigory_45
      Grigory_45 22 June 2020 11: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      With the Sumerians, as usual, everything is in one place. In normal self-propelled mortars, mortars are fired through the roof hatch, so there is no need for a hydraulic drive as in this "miracle" of the Ukroboronprom, and time is not wasted on putting the mortar in and out. Also, the calculation does not need to go outside, which again saves time, plus the calculation is constantly under the protection of armor. And then the ukrovoeny will be forced to run back and forth with mines in their hands to load the mortar.

      the Spaniards on Alakran have the same thing (by the way, Bars is ideologically licked from him). And there are also a dozen self-propelled mortars of a similar pattern. This is a fee for a light chassis. The return from the shot is taken by the soil, not the chassis. And the accuracy will be higher.

      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 22 June 2020 15: 35 New
        0
        Quote: Gregory_45
        This is a fee for a light chassis.

        Singaporeans put their SRAMS on Spider LSV

        Rather, it is a "fee" for the inability to create an analogue of the Israeli CARDOM
        1. Grigory_45
          Grigory_45 22 June 2020 17: 56 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          Rather, it is a "fee" for the inability to create an analogue of the Israeli CARDOM

          or unwillingness to bother with recoil devices, without which the mortar will simply disassemble the chassis not according to the drawings after the first shot.
          And then CARDOM with a 120 mm mortar can only be installed on armored vehicles with the appropriate characteristics, and for light platforms like the HMMWV, an 81 mm mortar is offered
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 22 June 2020 19: 50 New
            0
            Quote: Gregory_45
            And then CARDOM with a 120 mm mortar can only be installed on armored vehicles with the appropriate characteristics, and for light platforms like the HMMWV, an 81 mm mortar is offered

            Wrong.


            The problem with "light platforms" is not the impact on them when fired. and in a microscopic transportable BC.

            By the way, SRAMS is also 120 mm
            1. Grigory_45
              Grigory_45 22 June 2020 21: 15 New
              0
              perhaps this is some kind of advertising feature ...
              really 120 mm are on serious chassis,

              in the Israeli army - on M113

              on the lungs - 81 mm.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 22 June 2020 21: 59 New
                0
                Quote: Gregory_45
                on the lungs - 81 mm.

                Pictured is a 120mm Soltam Spear MK2

                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 23 June 2020 15: 44 New
                  0
                  In my opinion, ours is better:
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 23 June 2020 15: 59 New
                    0
                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    In my opinion, ours is better:

                    I would not say ... Between them a difference of several generations.
                    1. Bad_gr
                      Bad_gr 23 June 2020 16: 08 New
                      0
                      Quote: Spade
                      I would not say ... Between them a difference of several generations.

                      The approach itself:
                      state loading, gun in the tower. As a result: the calculation is always covered by armor, shooting in any direction, the minimum time for preparation for shooting and leaving the position after shooting.
                      + amphibious with good cross.
                      By the way, and they do not think to upgrade?
                      As an option, based on the BMD-4m?
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 23 June 2020 16: 16 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        The approach itself:

                        Israeli is more adequate
                        Cheaper, lighter, more accurate, faster fire

                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        minimum time for preparation for firing and leaving positions after firing.

                        Here on these points, the Israeli win much.
                        Yes, and it’s solvable with armor

                        Also, do not forget. in the Airborne Forces, this is not battalion artillery.

                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        By the way, and they do not think to upgrade?

                        They were going to replace it with 2C42 "Lotus"
  3. Aleksandr72
    Aleksandr72 22 June 2020 07: 49 New
    0
    Replacing the artillery part of the complex will require the use of new firing tables and appropriately refine the fire control system - such work should not take much time.
    - I have vague doubts that the developers will quickly cope with this, given the fact that the first batch of self-propelled mortars was ready in August 2019, and the developer has not yet submitted the shooting table to the customer. And this despite the fact that the artillery part of the system was copied from the old Soviet 2B11 - a system that had been worked out a long time ago and of which everything is known. I do not think that the ballistic qualities of the Ukrainian copy differ from the Soviet prototype. Maybe Ukrainian-made mortars have trunks?
  4. DeKo
    DeKo 22 June 2020 07: 50 New
    0
    And again, three drops of tar. The other day, on a box, I saw the shooting of this vehicle. The Mosin rifle pierces this miracle of Ukraine, from a hundred meters.
  5. Lopatov
    Lopatov 22 June 2020 15: 01 New
    +1
    Some kind of fierce nonsense.
    Also, the manufacturer still has not provided the army with a table for firing from such weapons.

    Did you smoke everything?
    Or "decommunized" because of the inscriptions "USSR Ministry of Defense"?

    Something is wrong here...
    1. chenia
      chenia 22 June 2020 21: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      Something is wrong here..


      NATO standards have moved to inches, pounds, and miles. And the tables are in English, and generally with 105 mm guns. The main thing. that would not be like in the USSR.
    2. agond
      agond 22 June 2020 21: 35 New
      0
      Again, the military’s obsessive desire to shoot a mortar from a car, if not from the body, then at least close to the ground, isn’t it easier to take a finished truck with a lift, arrived, unloaded, shot, loaded again, left, if the truck was knocked out, you can take away the mortar on another (serviceable) truck
  6. chenia
    chenia 22 June 2020 21: 41 New
    0
    I’ll say on the topic. if the system of battalion artillery then VIENNA (troops of constant readiness).
    In the mob.variant, it's not fucking complicated, like the Georgian 120-mm SM "Aybat", Well, a bit more solid base. And that's all.
    For special units and for export, there can be any crap with bells and whistles.