An article by Vladimir Putin about World War II was published in an American magazine.

Russian President Vladimir Putin published an article in the American edition of National Interest, “75 years of the Great Victory: shared responsibility before history and the future "dedicated to the Second World War. The material was published in English, the Russian version was published on the Kremlin website and" Rossiyskaya Gazeta ".

According to Putin, today's European politicians are trying to reconsider the reasons for the outbreak of World War II, thereby equating the USSR with Nazi Germany. The main criticism was the resolution adopted by the European Parliament on September 19, 2019, in which European deputies are actually trying to equate the USSR and Nazi Germany.

Putin draws attention to the fact that World War II could have been prevented if Great Britain and France had acted more decisively, and the League of Nations created after World War I had shown its effectiveness, which was not done. The proposals of the Soviet Union to create a European security system were ignored.

The Russian president accused a number of European politicians, in particular Polish, of trying to withhold information about the "Munich agreement", which resulted in the division of Czechoslovakia. Putin recalled that Hitler and Mussolini, as well as the heads of government of Great Britain and France Neville Chamberlain and Eduard Daladier participated in it, and the section itself was fully approved by the League of Nations.

Putin noted the contribution of the USSR to the defeat of Nazi Germany. According to him, the contribution of the Soviet Army to the defeat of the Nazis is three quarters. Against this background, articles are increasingly appearing in the European press trying to distort the truth about World War II and the reasons for its beginning, especially the Molotov-Ribbentropp Pact.

The President called on other countries to declassify archives regarding documents on the Second World War and reiterated Russia's consent to international cooperation.

We do not know if there are any secret “protocols” or additions to the agreements that a number of countries have concluded with the Nazis. The only thing left for us is to take their word for it,

- Putin stressed.

In conclusion, the Russian president said that he did not intend to assume the role of a judge in matters of the history of World War II, but believed that everyone needed the truth about this war.

For our part, we note that the published material caused an ambiguous reaction. According to some political experts, Putin’s article “blew up the Western media,” however, Russia responded differently to it.

Comments

[BecmepH]

Putin noted the contribution of the USSR to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

The word "contribution" jarred me ... WE WON! And if not for our successes, then contributions there were no other countries ...

[depressant]

Western, correct point. In diplomatic language, the word "contribution" even when mentioning 2/3 is a recognition of the equal magnitude of everyone's efforts to defeat Nazi Germany. There was no equal area. It was our victory. Dot.

[military_cat]

Now, The National Interest just does not scold you at the next reprint of a strange article from there, they can sew insult to the authorities.

[depressant]

It's good that Putin wrote such an article. But I believe that in modern political conditions, when we are squeezed from all sides, unreasonably accused of such sins that are just a product of the sick imagination of accusers, it is impossible to use the outdated idea of ​​the need for diplomatic smoothing of corners. I understand that now there will be a lot of information about the powerful contribution to the victory of the Western countries. What if WE lost? Despite their "powerful contributions"? It makes sense for all of us to think about it. They thought. Hollywood even filmed a bunch of TV series about how Hitler and Japan established power over the world, and what came of it. The prudent methods of diplomacy are perceived by the Western world insolent in their aggressive madness as a manifestation of weakness. It is necessary harder, harder. Calm but tougher.

[Lexus]

An article by Vladimir Putin about World War II was published in an American magazine.

The "Recorder" prize would have been instituted for such an occasion. I averted for the sake of writing an article, in fact. And he barricaded himself from pressing problems and uncomfortable questions.

And if we lost?

Our Soviet ancestors won ... And we live under the flags of the losers. And the stars changed to crosses ... Coat of arms - I don’t know at all how to characterize culturally. Even if all officials begin to scream and register every day, one must clearly understand that Victory is achieved not by idle chatter and paper scrambling, but by concrete actions and their results. It is possible to marry the whole World in a circle in a ostentatious order in vain and flap fireworks every day - everything will be wasted. The army is not red in parades, but in victories. We need to complete the fact that our ancestors did not have time and never stoop to the state in which the victorious country is now.

[Gardamir]

Our Soviet ancestors won ... And we live under the flags of the losers

just changed characters.

[Lexus]

just changed characters.

Colleague , swapped. And then they wonder why they do not respect. Although it is well known that

"Traitors are not loved anywhere, they are only used" (C) Dominique Strauss-Kahn, 10th Managing Director of the IMF

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: military_cat

Now The National Interest is just not scolding

Now NI is overshadowed by the personality of Himself - the number of reprints and citations will increase significantly. Even Shapiro aka Solovyov will have to refer to this handshake publication))))

[Lexus]

There are serious reputable publications, and NI is from the category of those that "read" in the toilet exclusively with "one eye" (third), in the absence of the necessary "hygiene products". One should hardly be proud of such popularity. Readers will simply give the expected "positive" rating. She, along with memories of such articles, is surprisingly quickly washed off.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: lexus

NI - from the category of those who "read" in the toilet

uh ... Now NO !!! Exclusively with a spiritualized face, sober and with a St. George ribbon on an alcoholic T-shirt !!

[Lexus]

with St. George ribbon

The most deserved "ribbons" during the Great Patriotic War and as a result were worn on "Judas" after the sentences of military tribunals. All today's "reproductions" are from the evil one. See the video in the comment above.

[ccsr]

Quote: lexus

One should hardly be proud of such popularity. Readers will simply give the expected "positive" rating.

Let's put aside unnecessary scrupulousness, but just for ourselves we conclude that this should have been dealt with not now, but even before Crimea became part of Russia. So to use this platform, even if it’s not very well known, to present our view of history, is not only useful but also necessary. Especially taking into account the interest of the Western layman to Putin’s personality. It is easy to predict that this resource will be visited by many people, and this accordingly will make other resources try to host an interview with the head of the country. So our PR specialists made an excellent move, especially in connection with the 75th anniversary of the Victory, and this must be recognized, not criticized for being placed there. Remember the speeches of Brezhnev and the work of Lenin, which the Soviet government published in the West, and which no one read there - at least we don’t have to pay for the article here, and this is a plus.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

and even before the entry of Crimea into Russia.

and what is the connection? What does the Crimea have to do with it? Do you think that if Putin tells us what an innocent pacifist and victim of treachery the USSR was, then in the West they will not draw an analogy between the Crimea and the Sudetenland? But it’s just not easy to recall Munich, introducing foreign territory into its composition.

Quote: ccsr

to state our view of history

and who is interested in the west?

Quote: ccsr

Western man’s interest in Putin’s personality

the western man doesn’t give a damn what Putin thinks about WWII. He will be bored of listening to Putin's opinion from the first paragraph. The average person is interested in Putin-macho, Putin-dictator, Putin-cheater, Putin with a naked torso and his other incarnations of this kind, but not Putin-historian.

Quote: ccsr

So our PR specialists made a great move,

How is he great? On a non-staff resource, known for its yellowishness and military pop, to put it mildly, the head of state, who considers himself one of the poles of power, posts a rather gray and populist article - and? The choice of a resource, by the way, is rather strange.
Any PR person or editor will tell you that such "revelations", which do not contain anything absolutely sensational, are good only in the form of interviews.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

and what is the connection? What does the Crimea have to do with it?

And despite the fact that this was the starting point of Western hysteria and the beginning of the introduction of many sanctions.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

then in the West will not draw an analogy between the Crimea and the Sudetenland?

They won’t do smart things, because they know how the annexation differs from the results of the referendum after the coup in Ukraine. Was a coup d'etat in Czechoslovakia in 1938?

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Western philistines don't give a damn what Putin thinks about WWII.

Not quite so, judging by the hysteria when he called the Polish ambassador a pig - then many became alarmed, and not only in Poland.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

The choice of a resource, by the way, is rather strange.

It's strange for you, but quite normal for me, especially in the era of the Internet, when such an article does not go unnoticed.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Any PR person or editor will tell you that such "revelations", which do not contain anything absolutely sensational, are good only in the form of interviews.

PR people are of the opinion that they are paid, so there is no need to tell tales about their "independence" here. Independent can be my opinion and many who write on the forums, because for a long time I have not depended on anyone to a certain extent.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

PR people are of the opinion that they are paid, so there is no need to tell tales about their "independence" here.

but where did I mention the "independence" of PR ??? Take the trouble to point out!

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

And despite the fact that this was the starting point of Western hysteria and the beginning of the introduction of many sanctions.

So what? Does Putin's reflections on WWII somehow correlate with Crimean events?

Quote: ccsr

what they know how the annexation differs from the outcome of the referendum

In 1975 97% of Sikkim residents voted to join India. Entered, now it is an Indian state. And thirty years before, when India gained independence (why not a revolution?), Sikkim sent Nah Nehr with his urgent proposal to become a member. And yet, it is considered a classic annexation. But I already somehow forgot about it. Forget about the Crimea.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

So what? Does Putin's reflections on WWII somehow correlate with Crimean events?

They take place in the outline of West-West villainy in relation to the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR and modern Russia. In this case, Putin could have remained silent, but they were too overwhelmed, so they had to beat them with their own bacon before.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

In 1975 97% of Sikkim residents voted to join India.

We have enough of our problems, but apparently you also needed Indian ones? I personally do not care who listened to whom and where they were sent to - here I am clearly not a listener of your revelations.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Forget about the Crimea.

I completely agree with this. But we will still have a lot of blood to drink.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

We have enough of our problems, but apparently you also needed Indian ones?

I just gave an elementary historical analogy. What does the Indians have to do with it?

Quote: ccsr

beat them with bacon to their muslims.

fucked up, yeah. Right manifest. Well, I’d print it on a Polish resource, it’s their scabies about who raped them there in the 39th.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

I just gave an elementary historical analogy. What does the Indians have to do with it?

In order to properly evaluate what was happening in Crimea, you need to know at least our history since pre-Petrine times. And we have an idea about this. But what the Indians had there, for us the example is not correct - they still have castes, i.e. in general, something that is not clear to our mind, and you are already aligning them with us.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Right manifest.

Of course, Karl Marx does not reach, but he hit the article well, since such a scream has risen even in our internet and the media. And the West will not be able to notice this article, and this is a good argument for future publications.

[gsev]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

it is considered a classic annexation

Before 1975, Chögyal Sikkim was held in power by guards from Tibetan refugees. The country was on the brink of civil war. Sikkim alone could not maintain independence and even just the identity of China. So the entry of Sikkim into India was the best solution for all its inhabitants except Chögyal. And it was even a blessing for the Tibetans loyal to the Chogyal from his guard.

[BecmepH]

Quote: ccsr

Not quite so, judging by the hysteria when he called the Polish ambassador a pig - then many were alarmed,

You’ll be called that; you will be alarmed too. And not only you, but also your loved ones

[ccsr]

Quote: BecmepH

You’ll be called that; you will be alarmed too. And not only you, but also your loved ones

If Trump or Merkel called me, I would even be proud of it and would certainly report it to VO. What can you do, a man is weak, sometimes he wants the whole world to know about him ...
So do not worry about me - I agree to this situation.

[ccsr]

Quote: BecmepH

You’ll be called that; you will be alarmed too. And not only you, but also your loved ones

If Trump or Merkel had called me that, I would have been proud of it and would have reported it to VO. What can you do, a man is weak, sometimes he wants the whole world to know about him ...
So do not worry about me - I agree to this situation.

[BecmepH]

Quote: ccsr

Quote: BecmepH

You’ll be called that; you will be alarmed too. And not only you, but also your loved ones

If Trump or Merkel had called me that, I would have been proud of it and would have reported it to VO. What can you do, a man is weak, sometimes he wants the whole world to know about him ...
So do not worry about me - I agree to this situation.

Plus to you for your judgment and patience.

[kupitman]

when you really want to throw on a fan, but there seems to be nothing to throw, you can touch the words. I’ll tell you more - there, in the article, there are anti-Soviet propaganda, etc. by the list

[Lexus]

Colleague, I will add, I have no doubts that this "creativity" was published with the aim of being thrown on the "zero". It is based on the domestic consumer, because potential refugees do not strongly “blow” towards “partners”. Then they may not accept it for it.

[vladcub]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna, in fact, this is already an established pattern. .
Maybe not quite in place, but I want to say what I’ve been thinking about for a long time.
Russia has traditionally had a high culture, people read a lot and their vocabulary was high. Over time, the culture of the population began to decline.
To a large extent this is also connected with literature: if we compare the style of Pushkin, Lermontov, Nikitin, Fet and 20 writers into this heaven and earth! I don’t want to offend anyone, but FEW of the 20th century visitors can compare with the 19th century writers.
And now people read little and think even less. Why should I read a book and even think, I'll look in the "box" on the Internet, read something and already "smart yak vutka".
Ilf and Petrov have such a character: "Elochka the ogre", she had as many as 30 words for all occasions and we turn into such "Elochek"

[ccsr]

Quote: vladcub

And now people read little and think even less. Why should I read a book and even think, I'll look in the "box" on the Internet, read something and already "smart yak vutka".

Does it bother you that a modern school graduate has knowledge, the volume of which is greater than that of any teacher-professor of Moscow State University in the 19th century? The volume of knowledge itself has grown so much, it has become so diverse that sometimes there is no time left for a detailed study of this knowledge, which is why this is the lot of narrow specialists. I will not praise the current education system, because I think it is wrong, but on the other hand, I am not an expert, and I do not communicate in the environment that is busy teaching our children at school. And so the thought creeps in, maybe everyone does not need fundamental knowledge, and it is better to leave it for a narrow circle of people who will devote their whole life to science, and the rest have enough information from the "box" and the network?

[seti]

And remember only the non-aggression pact between the USSR and Germany
Well, do not forget Munich Conspiracy 38 years!

[Avior]

Everyone is talking about secret protocols to the Covenant, and not about the main text.
There was nothing special in the non-aggression pact itself.

He asked to retrieve from the archives the entire array of materials related to contacts between the USSR and Germany in the dramatic days of August and September 1939. According to the documents: clause 2 of the Secret Protocol to the Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and the USSR of August 23, 1939 established that in the event of a territorial and political reorganization of the regions that make up the Polish state, the border of the spheres of interests of the two countries should "approximately run along the river Narew, Vistula and Sana ". In other words, the Soviet sphere of influence included not only the territories inhabited mainly by the Ukrainian and Belarusian population, but also the historical Polish lands between the Bug and Vistula rivers. Not everyone knows about this fact now.

[military_cat]

Quote: Avior

Everyone is talking about secret protocols to the Covenant, and not about the main text.

I agree, rude. As far as I remember, none of the allies under their agreements with the 3rd Reich declared any territory a zone of their influence, i.e. did not divide them between himself and Hitler.

[svp67]

Quote: military_cat

As far as I remember, none of the allies under their agreements with the 3rd Reich declared any territory a zone of their influence, i.e. did not divide them between himself and Hitler.

Yes? But what about the partition of Czechoslovakia, Poland ... The same Hungary "welded" not badly with the help of Germany and without preliminary agreements it could not have done it.
Slovakia got "its own" during the partition of Poland and this, too, simply could not happen, especially since Slovakia simultaneously invaded Poland with Germany. That is why the Poles do not make claims to her?

[military_cat]

Hungary and Slovakia were satellites of the "axis", no one has any questions about them, they were criminal regimes.

[svp67]

Quote: military_cat

Hungary and Slovakia were satellites of the "axis", no one has any questions about them, they were criminal regimes.

that's just no one claims to them ...

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: svp67

Yes? And what about the partition of Czechoslovakia, Poland ... Slovakia got "its" during the partition of Poland

yes, the Slovaks have reclaimed the territory chopped off by the Poles in 1919 and 1938. The “recapture” of this piece with an area of ​​only 770 sq. Km and a population of 35 thousand people was a “naked prestige”. Absolute analogy with the USSR, which "returned its own" during the Liberation campaign.

[figwam]

Quote: military_cat

As far as I remember, none of the allies under their agreements with the 3rd Reich declared any territory a zone of their influence,

We must blurt out such heresy.

[military_cat]

Please expand your thought?

[figwam]

Quote: military_cat

Please expand your thought?

In whose zone of influence was Czechoslovakia? So they shared it, between themselves and Hitler)))

[military_cat]

What is in its zone of influence is not "divided" but conceded.

[svp67]

Quote: military_cat

What is in its zone of influence is not "divided" but conceded.

But what about the agreements with Italy?

[surok1]

So is this an insult to the previous owners, not Poland itself?

[user1212]

Quote: military_cat

As far as I remember, none of the allies under their agreements with the 3rd Reich declared any territory a zone of their influence, i.e. did not divide them between himself and Hitler.

But during WWII, documents were well signed that stipulated zones of influence after its completion

[Olgovich]

Quote: military_cat

I agree, rude. As far as I remember, none of the allies, according to their agreements with the 3rd Reich, declared any territory a zone of their influence

Hitler represented interests of Poland and Hungary in Munich and there, not some lousy zones of influence were announced, but announced GIVING foreign lands and people to the invaders.

Hitler Poles in Munich:

"You know, it was difficult for us to defend your interests in Munich. But we did it!"

And yes, the spheres of influence were, are and will be

[Albert1988]

This is if the willows prove that the allegedly presented text of the "secret protocols" is genuine ...

[military_cat]

Quote: Albert1988

This is if the willows prove that the allegedly presented text of the "secret protocols" is genuine ...

Putin does not deny this, for example.

[Albert1988]

Quote: military_cat

Putin does not deny this, for example.

Putin is a historian? He personally conducted research on this subject? Putin for you the highest authority in all areas? For me, for example, in matters of history - Putin does not have authority at all, compared with someone like Dyukov or Isaev, and what Putin once said about my native field - genetics, you can grab hold of your head ...

Moreover, do you know where the text of these "secret protocols" first came from?

[military_cat]

It is not required to be a historian in order, having the highest authority in the country and access to any archives, any state secret and any people involved in it, to receive an answer to the direct question "are the documents authentic, yes / no."

The fact that Putin does not resort to the argument of falsification of secret protocols (although such an argument would be extremely convenient for the position he advocates) means that none of the competent people made it clear to him that this argument would have led to a little more serious discussion.

[Albert1988]

Quote: military_cat

It is not required to be a historian in order, having the highest authority in the country and access to any archives, any state secret and any people involved in it, to receive an answer to the direct question "are the documents authentic, yes / no."

No, it is required, because if you do not have competence, then you rely only on the opinions of all kinds of "advisors", but who are these people is already a big question! Considering that some inadequacy has already been sang for him about the "gene weapon", then I am not very sure about his knowledge of historical events either ...

Quote: military_cat

The fact that Putin does not resort to the argument of falsification of secret protocols (although such an argument would be extremely convenient for the position he advocates) means that none of the competent people made it clear to him that this argument would have led to a little more serious discussion.

One big thing is BUT - if competent people did not give him such information, this does not mean that competent people do not have it, this may mean that they were not consulted with competent ones ...

The unconditional recognition of Katyn, the absence of doubts about the authenticity of the publicly available version of the "secret protocols" is just a sign that in these issues we are guided by political motives, not paying attention to the arguments of historians!

[military_cat]

Do you think Putin would not want confirmation that the secret protocols are fake? Since he took up the topic at all, and with his obvious bias in an attempt to "protect historical memory," do you think he did not make even the smallest effort to find out if there was a chance that the secret protocols were forged?

[Albert1988]

Quote: military_cat

Do you think Putin would not like confirmation that the secret protocols are fake?

False confirmation of their falsity will be much more harmful from a political point of view than simply their controversial status! Putin is a politician, not a historian! Serious historians, by the way, are extremely skeptical about the text of these protocols and do not cite it in their works, referring only to the pact itself, sometimes the "secret protocols" are cited with reservations like "if you treat them as a genuine document ...", etc. .d.

Quote: military_cat

Do you think he made at least minimal effort to find out if there is a chance that the secret protocols are fake?

Can you say exactly what Putin has in mind? I repeat - with him we unconditionally recognized Katyn! For political reasons only for the sake of relations with Poland! However, for this event, the experts have questions not just the carriage, but the whole train! There are German bullets, and twine is also German, and shooting in clothes, etc. And under Putin, they agreed to recognize this event, which leaves a host of questions, none of which have been removed!
After that, will you unequivocally judge Putin’s position on such issues?

[military_cat]

Quote: Albert1988

False confirmation of their falsity will be much more harmful from a political point of view than simply their controversial status!

No confirmation is required for a nonfiction article. Enough just vague wording to which you can’t get to the bottom. Level wording "authenticity of secret protocols raises questions"You can't prohibit calling and having questions, right? Putin, if anything, is not at all shy about vague wording, in particular, he says" there is no evidence that there were no secret protocols with other countries ", this is just some kind of hell. on the issue of these specific secret protocols, Putin is beginning to be ashamed of even vague wordings.

Quote: Albert1988

Can you say exactly what Putin has in mind?

I can quite reliably judge what is on Putin's mind about "preserving historical memory" and "countering the falsification of history", he has already demonstrated this many times. If he is ready to admit some clearly black spot, then it seems impossible for him not to admit it under the weight of the available evidence (and more is available to him than to any other citizen of the Russian Federation).

[Albert1988]

Quote: military_cat

Confirmation for a journalistic article is not required.

That is precisely why journalistic articles can be easily wiped off, having previously been blotted out in them!

Quote: military_cat

It is impossible to forbid to cause and have questions, right?

And what's the difference that this wording is not? If the article is journalistic, as you said?

Quote: military_cat

I can quite reliably judge what is on Putin's mind about "preserving historical memory" and "countering the falsification of history"

Ooh, dear, you can’t, because in politics - to the public one thing, on the sidelines - completely different, while everything can change depending on the political situation! It’s not for nothing that you brought the matter with Katyn - there are a lot more questions there than to the protocols, but they were recognized at once - for the sake of a momentary situation, which did not materialize!

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

I suppose Comrade Putin made an attempt to take our scrapie to the international level))) I read an article in NI now - populist scribble, nothing new, what kind of archives? This article, which undoubtedly today and tomorrow Channel One and Vesti FM will be called a great revelation, will require inclusion in history textbooks and memorized in schools, would still be in the form of an interview. Another interpretation, nothing more. Putin’s authorship, apparently, should add weight to it and transfer it to the category of imperishable type of Mao quotation-book from Chinese comrades - there is also a set of platitudes.

[ccsr]

Quote: military_cat

It is not required to be a historian in order, having the highest authority in the country and access to any archives, any state secret and any people involved in it, to receive an answer to the direct question "are the documents authentic, yes / no."

I would be wary of believing everything that is now presented to us as "historical documents" from the archive, and not because the late Ilyukhin directly indicated that in the early nineties many historical fakes were made that were thrown into the media or leaked abroad, like for example "Mitrokhin's archive".
Without any spy mania, I will only note that the art of forging documents, including old ones, is owned by all the secret services of the world, and even more so in the era of paper media of the last century, it was at the highest level. Such documents are needed to legalize agents, which is why sometimes forgeries were made better than the originals - and this happened. So with the "secret protocol", the original of which was not seen in Soviet times, and suddenly it came out "by accident", you also need to be careful.

[Albert1988]

Quote: ccsr

So with the "secret protocol", the original of which was not seen in Soviet times, and suddenly it came out "by accident", you also need to be careful.

The fact is that for the first time these documents surfaced at the Nuremberg trials - they were provided by some Nazi lawyers, the text completely repeats those that surfaced in the 90s in "our archives", with the only difference that in Nuremberg it was a microfilm, and in our case, printed documents. But - the text is one-to-one, the same mistakes are repeated several times by "both sides", Finland is called "the Baltic country", etc.
Interestingly, at the Nuremberg trials these "protocols" were not accepted by the court as evidence in view of the extreme doubtfulness of their origin - they were a surprise, including for the American and British parties))))

[vladcub]

"with someone like Dyukov or Isaev" it is now fashionable not to recognize official historians, but to read alternative authors, and they are also different. For example: Zadornov as a satirist or Zadornov as a historian are two big differences. Or the "patriotic" historian Miltyukhov, the majority of Soviet and modern Russian historians, to put it mildly, doubt that the NKVD shot all Poles, and Miltyukhov believes that L.P. Beria personally shot. "Suvorov" is sure that Stalin was going to attack Germany and Miltyukhov is sure of this.
It seems that he does not believe in "secret protocols", I will twice believe in these protocols, but that Stalin with a cudgel sneaks up on "white and fluffy" Hitler. Dismiss

[Albert1988]

Quote: vladcub

now it’s fashionable not to recognize official historians, but to read alternative authors

Well, as one professor I know said - "alternative authors for alternative-minded", especially the late Zadornov ...

[vladcub]

This is exactly what they have in use and Tartary and prch "scientific"

[Avior]

Putin quoted him in an article. I have a quote from his article.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Avior

Putin quoted him in an article. I have a quote from his article.

So what? Putin also talked about some kind of "genetic weapon" when any serious geneticist, wake him up at night, will justify why this is impossible ...

[Avior]

That this is a quote from Putin.
If you have something disproving or the opposite, give a link, I'm interested

[Albert1988]

Quote: RMT

Man, this is a fragment from the article that we are discussing! Do you require evidence from the author?

You can also from him, if you quote something, then you must either be 100% sure, or note that the authenticity of the source may be in doubt. Some experts still doubt the authenticity of "The Lay of Igor's Campaign", claiming that it was forged either the 18th or the 19th century ...

[Cyril G ...]

So our European "partners" have an extremely selective memory.
I remember there, I don’t remember, and there, in general, the herring was wrapped. (Ts.)

And the fact that it was the Munich agreement that unleashed a world war in Europe, they do not spare. For the Fuhrer was directly pushed to the East.

[Avior]

Putin writes about the imperfection of the Versailles Treaty.
The Munich Agreement is just an attempt to fix it, it was foreseen

[syndicalist]

There is still a difference. None of these agreements carried out the division of Europe with Hitler. Including the Munich agreement. None of the participants in the "conspiracy", except Germany, received an inch of Czechoslovakia.

[Albert1988]

Quote: syndicalist

There is still a difference.

Oh, yes - give up someone else's land, just don't touch ours, it's a big "big" difference ...

[military_cat]

Quote: Albert1988

Oh, yes - give up someone else's land, just don't touch ours, it's a big "big" difference ...

This is the difference between attack and defense.

[Albert1988]

Quote: military_cat

This is the difference between attack and defense.

No - no difference! There is a criminal conspiracy to organize the invasion of one country into another ... The customer and the killer are judged the same ...

[Cyril G ...]

But Poland (Vassal of London) received a decent piece of Czechoslovakia ...

Poles occupy Czech Tesin in October 1938 ..

[Albert1988]

Quote: Cyril G ...

But Poland (Vassal of London) received a decent piece of Czechoslovakia ...

By the way - an important point - Poland rested against the horn, not allowing any Soviet assistance to Czechoslovakia, as it had its own interest - to overcome the land ...
As a result, flew as it deserves!

[New Year day]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Poles occupy Czech Tesin in October 1938 ..

Who I wanted, all hapanuli stranitsa stranger

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Cyril G ...

decent piece of Czechoslovakia ...

So what? In interbellum, the boundaries were non-static and controversial, which is natural after the disaster of 1914-1918. How the borders between the shards of Austria-Hungary were drawn. Do you know? How did Masaryk "create" an independent CSR? Teshin? It was a conflict frozen for 20 years. In dynamics it is necessary to consider, and not think in cliches. One Versailles misunderstanding, using a convenient moment, chopped off a piece of 2 thousand square kilometers from another misunderstanding. And then this "chop off", in turn, squeezed out 710 sq. Km ..... well, and Zap.Ukrainu and Zap.BR in pursuit - misunderstandings in turn were terpily. And the interestants thoughtfully declared "we are returning ours!"

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

In dynamics it is necessary to consider, not to think in cliches.

Then you dynamically acknowledge that Stalin did everything right by returning the lands to us before and after the Great Patriotic War, and I will applaud you while standing. Only in the West they are unlikely to understand you - they have memory lapses and their own history, and what we consider to be a fact, they prefer not to notice it. And then what will we stop when we enter into a polemic with them as a result of the war?

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

that Stalin did everything right, returning the land to us

and why not return, since such a solitaire has developed? In a jar of spiders, you have to be either a spider or eaten. Return, take revenge for the shameful campaign of twenty years ago. Moreover, to sign the Treaty of Friendship and Border with the Reich and declare in it a claim to Lithuania. Just do not breathe gasp about the political genius of Comrade Stalin and the diplomatic virtuosity of Comrade Molotov. No wisdom and foresight - only tactics.

Quote: ccsr

only in the West they are unlikely to understand you - they have memory lapses and their own history

So what? Is it wrong with us? There is a presumption of the winner - to interpret everything in their favor. They are in our own, we in our own. There will be no consensus. So we will be thrown over the fence with our interpretations of WWII.

Quote: ccsr

when we enter into polemics with them as a result of the war

and on what results? The Yalta world order has long sunk into oblivion, wake up. The USSR lost the Cold War and died, and you are trying to impose a polemic on someone about the previous war.
Each of the three wars - WWI, WWII and XV - had the agenda, among others, "the Polish question". And, by the way, the current antics of Poland and its attempts to take one of the leading positions in Europe - this is also an "agenda". They are constantly reanimating everyone in Europe sick of the problem of the beginning of WWII and "who unleashed it."

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Just do not breathe gasp about the political genius of Comrade Stalin and the diplomatic virtuosity of Comrade Molotov. No wisdom and foresight - only tactics.

It is not necessary to assess them so vulgarly, especially taking into account such "geniuses" as Gorbachev, Shevardnadze and Kozyrev. These creeps didn't even think tactically - they just traded the country.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

There will be no consensus.

And I’m talking about the same, that’s why I think that all calls to the West will be fruitless.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

The Yalta world order has long sunk into oblivion, wake up.

I did not say the opposite - it seemed to you.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

The USSR lost the Cold War and died, and you are trying to impose a polemic on someone about the previous war.

Why do you think so? I’m just worried that our people would know the true truth about the war, and some even thoughtlessly distort it even in this forum.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

They are constantly reanimating everyone in Europe sick of the problem of the beginning of WWII and "who unleashed it."

That's why they need to be told right away - it’s you bastards who raised Hitler, who gave you a blood bath, and Stalin and the USSR have nothing to do with it. What is wrong here?

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

I believe that all calls for the West will be fruitless.

Quote: ccsr

That's why they need to be told right away - it’s you bastards who raised Hitler

it's nice to consider the attempts fruitless, but persist in pestering the west with your "who's to blame" version. Once again, this Putin article is exclusively for the domestic consumer.

Quote: ccsr

No need to go so evaluate them

Well, excuse me if I hurt the feelings of the Stalinist, but the clumsy of Soviet diplomacy on the eve of the war, in my opinion, is obvious. And by no means carries traces of genius. And from "his", squeezed out as a result of the Liberation campaign, Comrade Stalin suddenly abandoned in 41st, exchanging territories for co-opting with the recent eventual enemy No. 1 - Britain. In fact, the Munich Agreement and the Pact MR are equivalent acts that gave away European pawns to be devoured.

Quote: ccsr

and Stalin and the USSR have nothing to do with it

Well, yes, of course. It is time to admit that the methods of the USSR in 1939-1940 were expansionist and aggressive - this is not to reproach the leadership. This is the objective and only possible modus operandi for a country whose death everyone wanted.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Once again, this Putin article is exclusively for the domestic consumer.

And for this, it was placed in a foreign publication - isn’t it yourself funny?

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

In fact, the Munich Agreement and the Covenant MR are equivalent acts giving away European pawns to be eaten.

You are lying unscrupulously - the Munich Agreement merged Hitler Czechoslovakia, which was not even invited for discussion, and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact did not give consent to the defeat of Poland, because we did not have an agreement with it by which we would be obligated to defend it. So why the hell were we supposed to come to the defense of Poland without an agreement on this, you will be able to clearly explain how, especially since we did not send troops before September 17?

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

This is the objective and only possible modus operandi for a country whose death everyone wanted.

So I say that we need to erect a monument to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for a long time, as the most successful political document of the pre-war period.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

isn’t it funny?

Extremely funny. Very original PR. But NI, of course, benefits.

Quote: ccsr

because we didn’t have an agreement with her under which we would be obligated to protect her.

But did we undertake to protect anyone? Or, are you talking about a contract with the Czechs? So there was a small reservation about France.

Quote: ccsr

So what the hell were we supposed to defend Poland with

I don’t know what the hell. I did not speak about it.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

But did we undertake to protect anyone?

We suggested that some European countries do this back in 1938, and since the spring of 1939, negotiations have been ongoing with France and England to conclude a treaty to curb Hitler. So we had intentions, but no one wanted to realize them.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

We suggested that some European countries do this back in 1938

"We" only proposed to convene a conference behind Germany's back. The arrogance of the British did not allow them to regard Stalin as their equal and sit with him at the same negotiating table, which in one way or another was supposed to affect the distribution of spheres of influence in Europe among the guarantors. And the position of England is quite logical - the background of all these Soviet diplomatic attempts in March 38 was, you know, the war in Spain. An interesting collision - one of those who got messy in someone else's civil war proposes to solidify against another similar 'volunteer assistant'. Funny, isn't it?

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

And the position of England is quite logical - the background of all these Soviet diplomatic attempts in March 38th was, you know, the war in Spain.

Do not exaggerate the role of military specialists of the USSR in the war in Spain, as there were very few of them against the background of the regular troops of Germany and Italy, helping Franco.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

An interesting collision - one of those who got messy in someone else's civil war proposes to solidify against another similar 'volunteer assistant'. Funny, isn't it?

So in that war "volunteers" from the United States and Europe fought on the side of the Republicans, and who pursued what goals there, is now difficult to figure out. You don't think the participation of Western armies in the Civil War in Russia is funny, so why then should we sprinkle ashes on our heads because of a couple of thousand (up to three according to different sources) volunteers who fought in Spain? Moreover, we discussed agreements with those who have recently destroyed our people - do you remember about that?

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

Do not exaggerate the role of military specialists of the USSR in the war in Spain

over there. Usually passionate patriots, referring to the matter of the USSR’s participation in the Great War in Spain, with foam at the mouth extol this role to heaven) Okay, that’s not the point. Inter-brigade participants did not export the country's gold reserves and did not sell weapons. And it's not about them at all. Spain demonstrated that the Bolsheviks did not abandon the idea of ​​red expansion - this fact very worried the titans of the Old World. But these impotents, with their gesheft with Hitler, did not understand until September 1 of the 39th that a rabid dog could not be reassured by merely scratching their ears.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Usually passionate patriots, refer to the matter of the participation of the USSR in the Greek war in Spain, with foam at the mouth they extol this role to heaven)

I evaluate this purely from a military point of view.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

And it's not about them at all. Spain demonstrated that the Bolsheviks did not abandon the idea of ​​red expansion - this fact very worried the titans of the Old World.

The Spanish government appealed to us - there was no need for fraud, just like the fact that we were also worried that Western countries could also invade us without any invitation, as was the case with our Civil.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

But these impotent people, with their gesheft and Hitler, did not understand until September 1 of the 39th that a rabid dog could not be reassured simply by scratching their ears.

I can’t argue with this - the West has miscalculated greatly, although I suspect that this was precisely what those who wanted the United States to become the dominant state of the world, supplanting Great Britain, counted on it.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

The Spanish government turned to us - no fraud,

I’m not juggling anything, I’m just saying that you don’t need to spread your head and drag American and other internationalist volunteers here. It is one thing to come voluntarily to Spain from France, Germany, Poland, England, the United States to defend the red and anarchist chimeras of different versions, and quite another is the participation, or rather, the intervention of a foreign state. Which, incidentally, was part of the non-intervention committee, like Germany. I am quite aware of the epic of the export of gold reserves. You must admit that this is a much more significant participation in a foreign war than the scramble of the inter-brigade team on the hills of Cordoba.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

I’m not juggling anything, I’m just saying that you don’t need to spread your head and drag American and other internationalist volunteers here.

There were at least ten times more than Soviet ones:

In total, during the civil war in Spain, about 30 thousand foreigners visited the ranks of international brigades

So do not close your eyes to this, as well as to the fact that many went there fulfilling the tasks of their governments.

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

I am quite aware of the epic of the export of gold reserves.

And what of it? I also know that it partially went to pay for weapons and the maintenance of Spanish children in the USSR. What claims can be on him to Stalin?

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

You must admit that this is a much more significant participation in a foreign war than the scramble of the inter-brigade team on the hills of Cordoba.

I do not presume to judge, because the result is disappointing. And in my opinion, it didn’t make sense for us to spend a lot of money on supporting the Spanish government, because we ourselves were on the verge of war, and it would be better to spend them on re-equipping our army. But it’s easy to argue now, and then they thought differently.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ccsr

What claims can be on him to Stalin?

Do I have a complaint to Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler or Franco ??

Quote: ccsr

There were at least ten times more than Soviet ones:

and to hell with him, even a hundred, I don’t even talk about them, how much to repeat?

[user1212]

Quote: syndicalist

None of these agreements carried out the division of Europe with Hitler

Again. The Munich Agreement separated part of Czechoslovakia (European countries) and handed it over to Hitler, in exchange for "peace." After all, Hitler's violation of the sphere of influence of Great Britain (attack on Poland) was the reason for the outbreak of the Second World War by Great Britain. This is exactly the division of Europe with Hitler

[Albert1988]

Quote: user1212

This is precisely the division of Europe with Hitler

Also about the spheres of influence - the Britons openly said to the Germans in Munich - "take at least the whole of Czechoslovakia, the main thing is not to touch Belgium any more - this is our sphere of interests"

[Molox]

Quote: seti

And remember only the non-aggression pact between the USSR and Germany
Well, do not forget Munich Conspiracy 38 years!

Thank you for the data .. About this "world media" is usually silent ... And so they are trying to rewrite history upside down .. The cap is on fire for a thief.

[K-612-O]

Actually we are talking about WWII. And it turns out that we and the Japanese fleet worked out the Italian army too, in North Africa we waved with Rommel. And by the way, the Yugoslav and Greek partisans, who really resisted and controlled part of their territory, also in the furnace, did not have them.
We fought with Europe and the Reich, as let the British in light mode, but WWII was not limited to the war of the USSR and the Reich.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K-612-O

s and the Japanese fleet worked

we worked out the Kwantung army

Quote: K-612-O

in North Africa with Rommel waved

Allied casualties:
44615 killed
209606 wounded, missing and captured
losses from the axis:
33988 killed
546721 wounded, missing and captured
losses for example in one battle of Stalingrad ~ 1 million on each side

[K-612-O]

I'm not talking about the scale, but WWII and WWII are two different things and you don’t have to dump everything in one mess.
And who fought with Japan before 45? Of course, we also contributed there. But the Americans still fought, and for them it is War.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K-612-O

but WWII and WWII

WWII is part of WWII with most of it

[K-612-O]

Nobody argues with this. But history is also a science and interfere with events and facts in one heap and sculpt do not understand that, do not

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

losses for example in one battle of Stalingrad

jars when, as an argument, they begin to measure graves. It’s like a dispute between cemetery guards who have a prestigious cemetery.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

but no one is measured by graves and if you don’t understand this, then these are your problems
I gave the figures to compare the volumes of troops in different theater

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

troop volumes

for "volumes of troops" (a funny term) there are other units of measurement, different from the number of the fallen - not in the know? And so you can measure prisoners. But then there was a discrepancy - in Tunisia, the Allies took prisoners three times more than the Red Army at Stalingrad - and what does this say about something?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

But then the problem - in Tunisia, the Allies took three times more prisoners than the Red Army near Stalingrad - and what does this mean something?

a problem in your knowledge more how losses are healed not only by prisoners
so for information the TOTAL number of troops on both sides in a Tunisian company less than seven Germans died under Stalingrad
there the Germans lost about 900 thousand dead, and a total of 850 participated in the Tunisian company

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Well, they would start their comparative analyzes with the number of drugs, BT, Air Force, etc.
And don't talk about "knowledge". You, sorry, do not shine.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

so give me examples of my mistakes while you screwed up the data

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

it's you screwed up with data

Messed up with data? Show me where.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Show me where.

I probably missed something, do not specify when we drank broodershaft

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

Messed up with data? Show me where.

I apologize for the inaccurate wording you screwed up not with the data but stupidly distorted the conclusions

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

do not specify when we drank broodershaft

I specify - never.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

and stupidly perverted conclusions

You see, I did not dispute the conclusions about the difference in the scale of the theater of war between S. Afrika and the Eastern Front - at least that would be stupid. The meaning of my remark was different. For me, the dimensions of the theater of operations mentioned above are the lengths of the fronts, the concentration of troops, and the like. For you - the number of crosses and funerals. That's all. Why this pick?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

For you - the number of crosses and funerals. That's all. Why this pick?

the main thing is not the length of the front, but how many enemies are destroyed

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Yes, as you say. I do not impose my point of view. We remain in our opinion.

[Gardamir]

Yes, do not care for World War II! For us it was the Great Patriotic War! If you like, Victory Day is Independence Day.

[K-612-O]

So I'm talking about what I'm trying to convey. For us, Victory Day is precisely May 9, not 3.09

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Gardamir

For us it was the Great Patriotic War!

And it was at the beginning, I can’t lie,
The tugboats were silent on the other side.
On that bank, on that bank
On the shore where we were ...
And we left our cities
And in them remained the soul forever ...
And yet, and yet,
And yet we won
And yet, and yet,
And yet we won!
Earflaps blackened on crimson snow,
And his lips went numb on the other side.
On that shore, on that shore
On the shore where we were ...
Behind each back was its Stalingrad
And in frozen trenches - not a step back
And yet, and yet,
And yet we won
And yet, and yet,
And yet we won!
And the salt faded from the soldiers' shirts.
That salt of return is like honey on my lips
On that shore, on that shore
On the shore where we were ...
And no matter how many of us are alive,
Alive the voice of dead friends fighting!
And yet, and yet,
And yet we won
And yet, and yet,
And yet we won!

[Woodman]

Quote: BecmepH

The word "contribution" jarred me ..

There are still such phrases:

The political map of the planet has changed. No Soviet Union, which won a grandiose, crushing victory over Nazism, saved the whole world.

It is important to convey to the descendants the memory that the victory over Nazism was won primarily by the Soviet people, that in this heroic struggle - at the front and in the rear, shoulder to shoulder - were representatives of all republics of the Soviet Union.

And what distorted you in the original is:

The Soviet Union, the Red Army, made the main, decisive contribution to the rout of Nazism — no matter what they try to prove. Heroes who fought to the end surrounded by Bialystok and Mogilev, Uman and Kiev, Vyazma and Kharkov. They went on the attack near Moscow and Stalingrad, Sevastopol and Odessa, Kursk and Smolensk. They liberated Warsaw, Belgrade, Vienna and Prague. They stormed Königsberg and Berlin.

[Civil]

This article is not for the Russian public, take it easy. For us there are Soloviev.

[Malyuta]

Quote: Civil

This article is not for the Russian public, take it easy. For us there are Soloviev.

Colleague , it seemed to me the other way around, having posted the article in a third-rate American newspaper, it immediately got on the Kremlin's website and in a Russian newspaper, and just Solovyov-Shapiro will report to us about the genius of the "genius" and the patriotism of the "patriot".
PR in front of the vote.

[ccsr]

Quote: Malyuta

PR in front of the vote.

"This is shallow, Hobotov" (c) - for this it was not necessary to post such an article on a foreign resource, but it was easier to invite the famous American director Oliver Stone, who shot a film about Putin, to interview him about the Second World War and the role of the USSR , and then post it to the media and the network.
Don’t think that our PR specialists are made with your finger, there are top-class pros among them, and they correctly calculated everything on the eve of the Victory Day parade on June 24th.

[Malyuta]

Quote: ccsr

Don’t think that our PR specialists are made with your finger, there are top-class pros among them, and they correctly calculated everything on the eve of the Victory Day parade on June 24th.

I agree, but here they play tudoy-court, it's not interesting there, but here we let Soviet films and "Vova is with us", "Vova won", "let a tear", "told about sadness", "wiggled his eyebrows", and in general the impression that he signed the walls of the "wooden reigstag", which he took with the shayga last year ... and on this place they, together with Gundyaev, erected a monument with frescoes of a kinder-surprise, a roll-glass and a reindeer herder .... no longer funny ...

[Vend]

Quote: BecmepH

Putin noted the contribution of the USSR to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

The word "contribution" jarred me ... WE WON! And if not for our successes, then contributions there were no other countries ...

Apparently you were just looking for something to cling to in this article))) the main information passed you by

[vargo]

I think the article is written so as not to overload the blame on someone and at the same time not to pull the blanket over itself, forming an equal feeling of victory and guilt. Perhaps this was specially presented so that in the negotiations on preserving memory and facts without lying, everyone had a sense of equality. If we negotiate from the position of the guilty and the main ones in the victory, it will be difficult to reach a compromise. An article is more a message than just an article.

[iouris]

So after all the magazine is called "National Interests (USA)".

[iouris]

The role of Japan and China is not mentioned, while Japan is an important adversary, China seems to be an important ally that suffered huge losses from the Japanese, and WWII began and ended precisely in the region that is incorrectly called "Far Eastern": Beijing is the center of the Middle Kingdom. ... London - Far West.
Also I would definitely kick England for Hess. Who was assigned to write this text?

[Babermetis]

Quote: BecmepH

Putin noted the contribution of the USSR to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

The word "contribution" jarred me ... WE WON! And if not for our successes, then contributions there were no other countries ...

I'm sure you haven't even read the original article! V.V. Putin cited figures, percentages and statistics. Therefore, "contribution" as a word is quite appropriate. Moreover, the very beginning of the article and its continuation and the main conclusions concerning the Russian Federation, its present and future are based on:
"It is important for me and my peers that our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren understand what trials and torments their ancestors went through. How, why were they able to withstand and win? Where did their truly iron fortitude come from, which surprised and delighted the whole world? Yes. , they defended their home, children, loved ones, family.But everyone was united by love for the Motherland, for the Fatherland.This deep, personal feeling in its entirety is reflected in the very essence of our people and became one of the defining ones in its heroic, sacrificial struggle against the Nazis . "

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

why jarring? There was an anti-Hitler coalition, a joint victory, everyone invested in varying degrees. If Putin started the barrel organ "Victory is ours and nobody's!" - that would be pretty silly.

[NEXUS]

Quote: BecmepH

And if not for our successes, then the contribution of other countries would not be ...

That's right, but with one caveat ... you forgot about leasing, gum assistance, etc. in the first years of the war. Let's just say that, if we talk about the contribution, then we can assume that it was. Another question is that the USSR took the MAIN WEIGHT OF WAR and it was the Red Army that broke the ridge of the Third Reich.

[zenion]

Yes, that is, a book by a Czechoslovak counterintelligence agent was published, of course during the Soviet era, called "The Crystal Vase". About how Czechoslovakia was handed over to Hitler. I read and realized that everything was thought out even when Hitler finally became the Fuhrer. If at that time it would not have been needed for the war with the USSR, then the United States at that time would not have been. Even in the States at that time they dreamed of a dictatorship. Hitler was invented.

[certero]

Like the West and deny their participation?
From the age of 43, 80% of German fighters in the west.
We won and the Union’s significant contribution. But they won even the same

[Pavel73]

Little of. The Munich agreement was preceded by many documents, treaties and pacts concluded by the European powers with the German Nazis. Despite the fact that from the very beginning Hitler, without hesitation, declared the goal of the Nazis - a conquest of the east, specifically Russia. And the very dismemberment of Czechoslovakia was not so peaceful: the battle of the company of captain Pavlik. Which later died in a Nazi concentration camp.

[iouris]

Quote: Pavel73

And the very dismemberment of Czechoslovakia was not so peaceful: the battle of the company of captain Pavlik.

One company! Well you give! Despite the fact that Czechoslovakia in its military and economic potential was comparable to the then Reich. The president and prime minister of Czechoslovakia are traitors. And this, by the way, had very negative consequences: the capacities of the Skoda factories (tanks, artillery, cars, etc.) and the aircraft factories of Czechoslovakia, their technological level, should be assessed as very high: at the level of the UK.

[Hunter 2]

In general, everything is true! Munich conspiracy - led to the start of the war! Accordingly, the blame for the Second World War can safely be assigned to its participants - Britain, Germany, Italy and France!
It is naive to suppose that the West will declassify its part of the archives! The fact that Poland went through - it was not for nothing that they burned ....

[To be or not to be]

And GDP writes: "The root causes of World War II largely stem from the decisions taken following the First World War. The Versailles Treaty became a symbol of deep injustice for Germany. In fact, it was about the robbery of the country, which was obliged to pay the Western allies huge reparations that depleted its economy. The commander-in-chief of the allied forces, French Marshal F. Foch, prophetically described Versailles: “This is not peace. This is a truce for twenty years. "

[K-612-O]

Although, for good, the War began in China and Japan unleashed it, which was then a member of the Axis. Khalkhin-Gol was before Munich.
But everyone somehow forgets about it. As well as about 37 million Chinese killed by the Japanese.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: K-612-O

The war began in China and Japan unleashed it, which was then a member of the Axis.

Well, not the Axis, but the Anti-Comintern Pact. The tripartite pact was issued only in the 1940th.

Quote: K-612-O

Khalkhin-Gol was before Munich

actually, after. And, by the way, the Leader and Teacher rightly did not consider the conflict in the twentieth century.

Quote: K-612-O

But everyone somehow forgets about it. As well as about 37 million Chinese killed by the Japanese ..

Come on, there, Comrade Xi recently mentioned that China and the USSR are the main WWII winners based on the number of victims.

[iouris]

Quote: Dr. Frankenshtuzer

the war on the HC did not rightly consider war.

And the war of Japan against China was rightly considered a war.
Also, the creation of the puppet state of Manchukuo (in fact, the "conflict in the HG" took place there), which turned into what Czechoslovakia and France were for the Germans (and a granary, and a smithy, and a health resort). This was another springboard for an attack on the Far East of the USSR, which distracted the huge forces of the Red Army.

[Malyuta]

Quote: Hunter 2

It is naive to suppose that the West will declassify its part of the archives! The fact that Poland went through - it was not for nothing that they burned ....

It is very curious why Hess was hanged in prison and with what mission he flew to Britain.
Only about this "partners" are unlikely to tell.

[Woodman]

Quote: Malyuta

It is very curious why Hess was hanged in prison

The time for his release was drawing near, and Hess did not conceal his intention to talk about how and why he ended up in England. At least I heard that version.

[Pereira]

There are different versions of what he could say. Including versions that do not match the focus of this site.
But obviously, they could not allow him. The whole story of his conclusion speaks about this.
The British hoped that he would die from old age. But the old man was surprisingly strong and was clearly preparing an information bomb.
I couldn’t. It's a pity.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Lesovik

At least I heard that version.

grandiose. And from whom did you hear? From the guard of Spandau in the kitchen to a glass of rowan on cognac and dumplings?

[Avior]

Hess actually left a note for his wife before hanging himself

[Malyuta]

Quote: Avior

Hess actually left a note for his wife before hanging himself

I do not believe that the person served so much and took and hanged himself before going out.

[Pereira]

Hanged himself - an intolerant word. Now it is customary to say - it is self-insulated.

[Malyuta]

Quote: Pereira

Hanged himself - an intolerant word. Now it is customary to say - it is self-insulated.

ours would be so "self-isolating", that would be a holiday.

[Pereira]

And lose the key to the door.

[Avior]

The situation is obvious, there is a suicide note, one can argue about the reasons, but the fact of suicide does not cause the slightest doubt

[Malyuta]

Quote: Avior

but the fact of suicide does not cause the slightest doubt

Colleague, a very controversial statement in my opinion. I remember in the 91st they also wrote suicide notes, and then fell from the windows, although they could well use premium weapons with a 100% guarantee.
A simple question, what could make a deep old man hang himself on a trouser belt, where did this belt come from and how does it look technically?
Threat. If possible, throw a link to the letter.

[Avior]

Who knows what he had in his head after so many years of imprisonment
He hung himself on an electric extension cord.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Avior

the fact of suicide does not cause the slightest doubt

do not deprive crypto-historians of chewing gum. Sorry for the black pun - the hanged R.G. hung up an intrigue for them.
Let them fantasize.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Malyuta

I don't believe

what a pity ... I guess you are one of those to whom

Quote: Malyuta

disbelieve

Hitler's suicide? )))
And yet Himmler’s double and the grandson of some guaraní, who claims that Bormann was the owner of a gas station near Asuncion ....

[sergey999999]

[quote] [/ quote] History and truth are unacceptable "diversity". Variety is a variation of a lie.

[New Year day]

Quote: Hunter 2

It is naive to suppose that the West will declassify its part of the archives!

and Russia disclosed its archives? Putin’s call to declassify is good, but there’s a deal. Where is it? Their discovery has just begun. I believe that in all the archives there is something that will remain there

[nikon7717]

and Russia disclosed its archives?

Yes, you are Silver from citizens like "Heidi Likely", one of those who first concoct the accusation to please their interests, and then say "prove that you are not a camel" ...
For us, the fact of victory is unshakable. The victory was won by the USSR. This fact of historical memory and victory will be included in the constitution of the Russian Federation. We will have the opportunity of additional requirements for the authorities to protect our memory and Victory.

[New Year day]

Quote: nikon7717

For us, the fact of victory is unshakable. The victory was won by the USSR. This fact of historical memory and victory will be included in the constitution of the Russian Federation. We will have the opportunity of additional requirements for the authorities to protect our memory and Victory.

what prevented before? Who prevented Mannerheim from opening the guard of honor and flowers to Ivanov and the Medina board? Was there a shortage of amendments?

Do you need corrections? To Ivanov? To the head of the ADMINISTRATION OF THE PRESIDENT? Medinsky? The Minister of Culture then and the Assistant to the President now?
Who forbade the mausoleum and Stalin? And without Stalin, there would have been no Victory. And without the CPSU (b) there would be no!
Bees versus honey?
You are a historical dodger

[nikon7717]

You are a historical dodger

In St. Petersburg, a board was installed in memory of what event?
In memory of the WWII, in memory of the revolutions of 1917, the split of society. As a sign of edification and reconciliation. Based on the fact that he was also a Russian officer, he served in the Russian army.
"Karl Gustav Emil Mannerheim (1867-1951) - Finnish military leader, politician and statesman, marshal. From 1890 to 1917 he served in the Russian army, participated in the Russian-Japanese and World War I. In 1918-1919 he was the regent of Finland. "
We give the facts. And not bare accusations. You are back in ...

[New Year day]

Quote: nikon7717

In St. Petersburg, a board was installed in memory of what event?

ask you from St. Petersburg! At the same time, and see their reaction! The important thing is, whatever the past, he participated in the Great Patriotic War on the side of Hitler and participated in the blockade of Leningrad.
So you and Vlasov rehabilitate for his past and thanks to Stalin

[nikon7717]

Yes here. In view of the blockade of Leningrad, all merit has been crossed out. This is not forgiven.

[iouris]

Where is Japan?

[Pessimist22]

Well, he wrote everything correctly, France and England just got scared and thought that Hitler would trample on the USSR.

[To be or not to be]

In Poland, Putin just skated like a roller .... Speaking about Hitler's new claims: "This time to his recent accomplice in the partition of Czechoslovakia - Poland. The reason here, by the way, was also the legacy of Versailles - the fate of the so-called Danzig corridor. then the tragedy of Poland is entirely on the conscience of the then Polish leadership, which prevented the conclusion of the Anglo-Franco-Soviet military alliance and relied on the help of Western partners. It put its people under the roller of Hitler's machine of destruction. "

[RMT]

England, France and the USSR are going to conclude an alliance, but Poland is against and there is no alliance? Come on, don’t tell! The opinion of Poland is very important.

[New Year day]

Quote: Pessimist22

France and England just chickened out

not scared, but counted on it

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

So, in his characteristic manner, politely and diplomatically, Putin sealed with the historical truth of Western cheaters who rewrote the history of WWII.
Let's look at their reaction. She will no doubt be stormy.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich

So, in his characteristic manner, politely and diplomatically, Putin sealed with the historical truth of Western cheaters who rewrote the history of WWII.
Let's look at their reaction. She will no doubt be stormy.

So it would be like to print local cheaters, and remove the screen from the mausoleum ...

There is still time until June 24th.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Quote: Insurgent

That's how it would be to print local cheaters

Yes. You're right. But to print them you need tough, punitive methods from the recent past. Is our society ready for this? Not sure.
And you won’t print local parasites with a word. Only business.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich

Yes. You're right. But to print them you need methods from the recent past. Is our society ready for this? Not sure.

When an operation is needed in the name of saving a life in an extreme situation, a wounded / sick person is not asked if he wants it or not ...

Maybe,"order 2-2-7"many did not like it either ...

[Nasrat]

Quote: Insurgent

..and remove the screen from the mausoleum ...
.

It would be more correct to remove the mausoleum itself .. and bury grandfather, albeit with honor ... in order to show respect to those who believe in the ideals of this grandfather ..
And you, as I understand it, from the republics of Donbass .... then for you personally:
Luxembourg R. Manuscript of the Russian Revolution:
Rosa Luxemburg wrote: “Ukrainian nationalism in Russia was ... nothing more than a simple quirk, the antics of several dozen petty-bourgeois intellectuals, without any roots in the economy, politics or the spiritual sphere of the country, without any historical tradition, for Ukraine was never a nation , neither by the state ... And such a ridiculous thing of several university professors and students, Lenin and his comrades artificially inflated the political factor with their doctrinaire agitation for "the right to self-determination, etc."

[Insurgent]

Quote: Nasr

It would be more correct to remove the mausoleum itself .. and bury grandfather, albeit with honor ...
And you, as I understand it, from the republics of Donbass .... then for you personally:
Luxembourg R. Manuscript of the Russian Revolution

That's it - from Donbass, and we, with memory, history, and monuments - are not at war.

[Nasrat]

Quote: Insurgent

Quote: Nasr

It would be more correct to remove the mausoleum itself .. and bury grandfather, albeit with honor ...
And you, as I understand it, from the republics of Donbass .... then for you personally:
Luxembourg R. Manuscript of the Russian Revolution

That's it - from Donbass, and we, with memory, history, and monuments - are not at war.

You do not fight with monuments and history, for that history is fighting with you ... and not figuratively. And God knows how many more sacrifices will be required from you in order to correct the mistakes of history ... But you seem to like the ideas of Lenin - this is your choice ...

[Gardamir]

Let the US be the first to remove their Mausoleums.

[Nasrat]

Quote: Gardamir

Let the US be the first to remove their Mausoleums.

Let them walk on their heads, I don’t mind ...

[To be or not to be]

Unnoticed went Patrushev's article of June 17: "17.06.2020/17/00 XNUMX:XNUMX
Does Russia need "universal" values?
Spiritual and moral values ​​of society as the basis of state sovereignty
Text: Nikolai Patrushev (Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation) Rossiyskaya Gazeta - Federal Issue No. 132 (8186 "
https://rg.ru/2020/06/17/nuzhny-li-rossii-universalnye-cennosti.html
Articles by Putin and Patrushev are linked by the theme of the civilized choice of the peoples of the world. ".. Russia, in fact, offers a new civilizational choice, the content of which includes equality, justice, non-interference in internal affairs, the absence of a mentoring tone and any preconditions for mutually beneficial cooperation."
"The offensive is being waged on" all fronts "of this" hybrid "war. The direction of the main blow is to erode the traditions of different peoples that have developed over the centuries, their language, faith and historical memory of generations. Such norms and values ​​cannot be accepted by the multinational Russian people under any circumstances conditions. "

[New Year day]

Quote: To be or not to be

Unnoticed went Patrushev's article of June 17: "17.06.2020/17/00 XNUMX:XNUMX
Does Russia need "universal" values?

why? Who cares, read.
Only there are only slogans.
Family: Russia ahead of Europe: 4,2 divorces per thousand. For comparison: the average for the EU is 1,9;
On justice and “the priority of the spiritual over the material”:
the general condition of Russian dollar billionaires has grown during the pandemic by 62 billion "green", reaching a total of almost half a trillion, 3% of Russia's wealthiest population today own 89% of the country's financial assets. The total wealth of the Russian billionaires, according to Forbes, rose sharply in the 2000s and stabilized at the level of 25–40 percent of the national wealth ... This is much more than in Western countries: in the USA, Germany, France in 2005–2015 - from 5 to 15 percent.
“Continuity of the history of our country”: on May 9, the mausoleum is draped, overwhelmed everything Soviet, monuments to the Nazis are opened. What is it like?

[Doccor18]

however, in Russia they reacted differently to it. 

The President of the country expressed his opinion and the opinion of the country on the history of WWII. Designated as an article. In principle, those people who want to know the truth will get to the bottom of it. And those who do not need it, write, do not write in one. The article seems to be more for "partners" written so that they know that everything is fine with our memory.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Read. Worthy good honest and unpleasant article for the West! Except for a few passages.

[Gardamir]

It is these passages that continue the Russophobic, anti-Soviet policy of the West.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

Quote: Gardamir

It is these passages that continue the Russophobic, anti-Soviet policy of the West.

And now what? To sell again and betray yourself as in 1991, in order to please the West?

[Gardamir]

But isn't he doing this? Reread completely. It is important for the West to pour mud on Stalin. Putin supports the West in this.

[Aleksey Aleksandrovich]

I will not argue who is pouring mud on anyone, this is an ungrateful thing. You let us stay with you, but I will probably stay with my opinion

[Avior]

It is unclear what could explode there, something new is nothing, a repetition of what is already known.
Apart from one, perhaps Putin first admitted that the USSR, in principle, was not going to attack Hitler

I can responsibly declare that there are no archival documents that would confirm the version of the USSR’s intention to launch a preventive war against Germany

[Insurgent]

Quote: Avior

Putin admitted for the first time that the USSR, in principle, was not going to attack Hitler

And before that, Putin,did not recognize this fact?

[Avior]

In any case, I have not seen such statements with reference to the archives.
if you saw, give a link, I will be interested to read

[Insurgent]

Quote: Avior

In any case, I have not seen such statements with reference to the archives.
if you saw, give a link, I will be interested to read

Are you out of your mind?

Declare Putin recognized(not said,namely "recognized") the fact that the USSR could not attack Germany due to the lack of such plans, and still require" links ", confirmation ???

[Avior]

you do not cling to the words, if you know that there were previously confirmed statements that the USSR was ready to coexist peacefully with Nazism, throw a link.
I see this recognition for the first time. I consider it important.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Insurgent

And before that, Putin, did not recognize this fact?

Prior to this, he said that the countries in which the USSR exported social experiments suffered:

[Pereira]

Prior to this, the Russian authorities did not recognize this fact. Even fake secret protocols concocted.
And Putin was silent.

[Malyuta]

Quote: Pereira

Even fake secret protocols concocted.
And Putin was silent.

Including on Katyn and Putin recognized them as a blatant fact of "bloody" Stalinism.

[Pereira]

That's it.

[Malyuta]

Quote: Pereira

That's it.

The next lycimer-conjunctural shoe in the air of the bunkeroman, reinforced concrete PR move in front of the voting ball.
It is all created by PR from PR.

[Pereira]

In principle, a good attempt. But she did not convince me. I still won’t go to the referendum.

[Woodman]

Quote: Avior

something new nothing, repetition of the already known.

This is known to us. For the western layman, probably there is a lot of new things.

[To be or not to be]

All clear:
1. The article was published on the eve of the military parade in honor of the 75th anniversary of the Victory
2. The most interesting in the American newspaper
3. The culprits of the war and the process of pushing Hitler to war are identified
4. The article is related to the current situation in the world and the threat of a new war ..
Maybe there will be a meeting of the five leaders?
Already leading world media gave first comments
http://actualcomment.ru/nastoyashchie-uroki-vtoroy-mirovoy-voyny-zapadnye-smi-o-state-putina-2006191018.html
For example, the German media Deutsche Welle also focuses on the conclusions that Putin made in the essay. The president notes that the post-war "rules of conduct" agreed upon by Winston Churchill, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Joseph Stalin, "laid the foundation for a world in which there has been no global war for 75 years, despite the most acute contradictions." The proposed summit of country leaders, according to Putin, would demonstrate a commitment to "the values ​​for which our fathers and grandfathers fought shoulder to shoulder."

[rotmistr60]

Putin's article "blew up Western media"

So this is understandable - a complete break in their template. It was very correct to focus on the behavior and "whispers" with Hitler of the British and French. About the petty role of Poland was mentioned earlier with the attachment of archival documents. Now let them pyzhatsya and give birth to come up with something new in the history of the 2nd MV, defaming the USSR.

[cniza]

Quote: rotmistr60

Putin's article "blew up Western media"

Now let them puff and give birth in order to come up with a new thing in the history of the 2nd MV defaming the USSR.

Do you think they will swallow silently and will not do anything?

[Boris55]

The term "World War II" is needed to nullify our victory over fascism.

There were two different wars.

The war on the Western Front was for us a war of liberation.
The war on the Far Eastern Eastern Front is a war in fulfillment of allied obligations, military assistance to China in the liberation of Manchuria from Japanese militarism, and, as it does not seem sharp, the seizure of Japan’s part of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands that belonged to us earlier (under the kings).

The emperor of Japan admitted defeat only after the bombing of the United States by the nuclear bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

In fact, the United States is the winner in the Far Eastern War. Recognizing that our patriotic war in the West with the participation of the United States and Agnglia and the Far Eastern war with our participation, I do not beg the honor and valor of our soldiers, recognizing both these wars as one whole and calling them by a common name - "World War II", we recognize a victory for the United States in it, a victory for the United States not only in the Far East but also in the West.

We were in Berlin. The US was in Tokyo. Medvedev in 2010 recognized the victory of the United States in WWII. I don't want to admit the term "World War II". For me, these are two different wars and the Second World War, we were the winners!

ps
There is a phenomenon, an image arises, to which a code (word) is assigned. By changing the word, the image does not arise, the phenomenon becomes incomprehensible. This is the manipulation of consciousness.

[Doccor18]

USA was in Tokyo

The United States would be in Tokyo, at best, a year like that in 1947, if the Soviet troops had not broken the ridge of the Kwantung Army Group in two months.

The emperor of Japan admitted defeat only after the bombing of the United States by the nuclear bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Emperor Hirohito and 100 million of his subjects were determined to fight and die after the atomic bombings, as evidenced by many documents.
Only the loss of the resource base of Manchuria and the Quantum Army forced Japan to surrender.

[Boris55]

Quote: Doccor18

Emperor Hirohito and 100 million of his subjects were determined to fight and die after the atomic bombings, as evidenced by many documents.

Read:
Emperor Hirohito's Speech on Accepting Japan's Surrender Conditions August 15 1945 of the year. "... We ordered our government to inform the governments of the United States, Great Britain, ..." The USSR is in last place there.

Again. I do not beg for much of our contribution to the defeat of Japan.

[Pereira]

Add to this that before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on the planet, two wars went on in parallel, one in Europe, the other in Asia, which were not separate world wars. And even then in Asia formally there was no war. There was a border conflict between Japan and China.

After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, on December 8, 1941, she declared war on Britain. On December 9, the Chiang Kai-shek government declared war on the “axis countries": Germany and Italy, becoming an ally of the USSR and Great Britain, and the next day they finally managed to do the same for the samurai.

Here is the real date when truly more than half of the world's population officially, openly and legally divided into two clearly defined blocks.
And then, as we all remember, the USSR, I did not fight Japan until the age of 45.

[Boris55]

Quote: Pereira

And then, as we all remember, the USSR, I did not fight Japan until the age of 45.

After Khalkhin Gol, Japan did not dare to attack us.

For us, there was a war in the West that ended on May 9, 1945, and another war in the Far East, which began on August 8, 1945. The difference between these wars is three months. It is these three months that separate one war from another.

ps
If there is a single WWII, then where is the general ACT on the surrender of one of the parties?

[Pereira]

And there was also time from 1939 to the 41st. Then there was no WWII, but there were a number of isolated conflicts.

[parusnik]

According to him, the contribution of the Soviet army to the defeat of the Nazis is three quarters

... Original ... how did he consider and why the contribution ... Like, they helped Hitler’s western powers to overcome ..

[Woodman]

Quote: parusnik

how did he count

An article on the Kremlin's website, it says how he thought, but if you don't have leisure, then here is the original about "three quarters":

The commission's tasks included defining a formula according to which a defeated Germany was to compensate for the damage suffered by the victorious powers. The commission came to the following conclusion: “The number of days spent by Germany on the Soviet front soldier exceeds the same amount on all other allied fronts by at least 10 times. The Soviet front also delayed four-fifths of German tanks and about two-thirds of German aircraft. ” On the whole, the USSR accounted for about 75 percent of all the military efforts of the anti-Hitler coalition.

So "three quarters" is just a clumsy translation from English.
PS It’s not clear why commenting on the translation, if the original is publicly available ...

[parusnik]

But it’s not clear why commenting on the translation if the original is publicly available ...

.... I don’t understand another reason why publish a translation, without excerpts from the article ...

[Gardamir]

It would seem an adequate article. But I read about the repression of Stalin’s crimes against the people. Then, it would seem that in denouncing the collusion of the British and French with the Germans and Poles, he suddenly again condemned the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
By the way, condemning someone, he does not think that they will talk about economic repressions against the people.

[Woodman]

Quote: Gardamir

suddenly again condemned the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

He merely stated the fact of condemnation by the Supreme Soviet of the USSR.
And I agree, some passages could have been avoided.

[A. Privalov]

Putin's article "blew up the Western media"
I don’t know who exploded there, but remembering the League of Nations was already superfluous.
Back on December 14, 1939, the League of Nations expelled the USSR from its membership for bombing civilian targets in Helsinki. The "Provision on the definition of an aggressor", initiated 6 years earlier by the USSR itself, was applied to the USSR.
This was done in violation of the charter of the League of Nations, which was directly stated by Soviet diplomats, but no one was listening to them.
The League of Nations without the USSR became a complete political impotent, and during the entire Second World War, no country more turned to it for help.

[To be or not to be]

"... Putin's article" blew up the Western media ",
I don’t know who exploded there, but it was already superfluous to remember the League of Nations ”

On the contrary. timely and out of place.
We read the League of Nations, but the UN comes to mind in its current form ..

[A. Privalov]

Quote: To be or not to be

We read the League of Nations, but the UN comes to mind in its current form ..

With the League of Nations, the question is closed. Dot.
The current view of the United Nations exactly reflects the current state of affairs. For the time being, the USSR could vote with three hands at once (USSR + Ukraine + Belarus), with the full and unconditional support of satellites from the countries of the socialist camp, + the so-called non-aligned, + Arab "pro-socialist" countries, everything was fine. Today, the world has changed. Nothing can be done about it.

[cniza]

Quote: A. Privalov

Quote: To be or not to be

We read the League of Nations, but the UN comes to mind in its current form ..

With the League of Nations, the question is closed. Dot.
Today's view of the UN accurately reflects the current state of affairs. Today, the world has changed. Nothing can be done about it.

So what to do nothing? let it drift and let everyone as he wants - maybe it steers?

[A. Privalov]

Quote: cniza

So what to do nothing? let it drift and let everyone as he wants - maybe it steers?

Your suggestions?

[cniza]

The world was not accommodating, the memory went blank, they forgot what price many peoples paid, so you can’t do without a good shake. The UN has already outlived itself, it has simply begun to spend its contributions on its content and has grown into a stranger. Putin proposed the first step, to gather permanent members of the Security Council and said that he would propose a program of action. My guess is that it will be proposed to expand the Security Council to 20 permanent members, without any additional on a rotational basis. Further, I would suggest that the UN disperse, create a new structure and with headquarters not in the USA, but for example in China, Malaysia or the Philippines, and maybe Vietnam. It only seems to me that there will be a world shake-up and then life itself will tell you what and how to do.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: cniza

The world was not accommodating, the memory went blank, they forgot what price many peoples paid, so you can’t do without a good shake. The UN has already outlived itself, it has simply begun to spend its contributions on its content and has grown into a stranger. Putin proposed the first step, to gather permanent members of the Security Council and said that he would propose a program of action. My guess is that it will be proposed to expand the Security Council to 20 permanent members, without any additional on a rotational basis. Further, I would suggest that the UN disperse, create a new structure and with headquarters not in the USA, but for example in China, Malaysia or the Philippines, and maybe Vietnam. It only seems to me that there will be a world shake-up and then life itself will tell you what and how to do.

The UN is extraterritorial. Whether it is in Haiti or on Franz Josef Land, nothing will change. You can not increase the number of permanent members, and even rotation. Today, big vetoers offend the little ones. So even when voting in the GA, the voice of Micronesia is equal to the voice of the Russian Federation or the USA, it’s just the first time in 70 years that you felt what sanctions are in your own skin. That lousy thing. We at our place know this well and understand. Therefore, we never support sanctions against the Russian Federation.

[cniza]

The UN is extraterritorial.

Only the USA decides who to let go, who not.

You can not increase the number of permanent members, and even rotation.

I wrote the opposite without rotation, 20 permanent and all.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: cniza

Only the USA decides who to let go, who not.

Please recall who, when and for what the United States did not let.

[cniza]

Here's a snap:

"I think that this is not a question only for Russia. It is a question for all interested delegations and for the entire committee," said Sacha Sergio Llorentti Solis, chairman of the first committee of the 74th session of the UN General Assembly, Bolivia's permanent representative to the world organization.

The Bolivian diplomat emphasized that if any delegation gets less opportunities to work due to visa issues, then this is a common issue. Solis intends to apply for a visa issue with a question to the Secretary General of the United Nations, António Guterres, and to the chairman of the session of the General Assembly, TASS reports.

The work of the disarmament committee was suspended until 10 October, when a general discussion could begin. Visas other than Russian representatives were not received by members of delegations from Cuba and from Iran. Also, due to the denial of visas, the work of the sixth UN committee on international law was stopped.

“We will do our best to solve the problem,” emphasized Sacha Sergio Llorentti Solis.

[A. Privalov]

Whom, of course, but because of what?
You go under sanctions. The UNGA resolution is not being implemented.
Prior to Crimea, were there problems with visas? No, it was not.
Why are you surprised?
But do you seriously believe that China, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam will let everyone go indiscriminately?

[cniza]

Listen, because of what - this concerns two-sided relations between countries, and when delegations are not allowed in - it is political pressure in the interests of the United States, I am silent about Venezuela, but I might not like it, but I need to let it in at the UN, about Evo Morales to tell, yes I also don’t share their point of view, but the UN must be allowed ...

[A. Privalov]

Quote: cniza

but the UN must be allowed ...

It is necessary. I agree.

[Incvizitor]

and the section itself was fully approved by the League of Nations.

Just as the partition by the fascists of Yugoslavia was practically with the approval of the UN, this organization was essentially the same.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Incvizitor

Just as the partition by the fascists of Yugoslavia was practically with the approval of the UN, this organization was essentially the same.

The United Nations officially exists since October 24, 1945, and Yugoslavia was occupied in April 1941.

[mag nit]

This is not Putin’s article, but Peskov’s blizzard.

[cniza]

Have you read it? and there is rather a collective author, with edits and additions from Putin.

[Tank hard]

Quote: mag nit

This is not Putin’s article, but Peskov’s blizzard.

Are you talking about the Munich agreement ?! It characterizes you and your intellect very much.

[Campanella]

The echo-bearers, as always, interpreted the article from their specific angle.
Blefkovsky or, according to his passport, Belkovsky generally stated that Stalin was ready to surrender the Soviet Union in the early days of the war, probably this lived in Stalin's rectum and was aware of everything.
I belong to Putin without any reverence, but I think it is right to convey objective data about all the secret springs of the Second World War to the peoples of the world.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: Campanella

I belong to Putin without any reverence, but I think it is right to convey objective data about all the secret springs of the Second World War to the peoples of the world.

The paradox is that the "peoples of the world" are busy with an incredible heap of their pressing problems and the old "secret springs" have not been in the forefront of their priorities for a long time. They are looking to the future. They have no time to look back. Nothing has changed behind.
It hurts me and you, and there, nobody wants to stir up wounds that have healed for a long time and stir up old bones ...

[Campanella]

"Behind nothing has changed"
I can say that "And in front of those in a hurry to do good there are the same old rakes."
"The experience of the son of mistakes is difficult" ...
Of course, any politician should sell the old as new and lead the people, acquiring mainly his benefits and skillfully redistributing the wealth of the peoples. Alas and ah, this is an eternal circuit. You can do nothing, it will spin to its logical end.
The only incentive for a person is to have time to “live” in his life, and this is what causes mostly political turbulence, that is, there is always a demand to “live even better”. And politicians are always willing to support this request, as it allows their own requests to be easily resolved.
Here's a story ... Imperial Bank!

[cniza]

Quote: A. Privalov

It hurts me and you, and there, nobody wants to stir up wounds that have healed for a long time and stir up old bones ...

Yes, they have healed with them, but we are still bleeding, but there is a lot but one of them - who refuses the truth of the past, can lose the future. So whoever wants to have a future, do not forget and rewrite the past.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: cniza

Yes, they have healed with them, but we are still bleeding, but there is a lot but one of them - who refuses the truth of the past, can lose the future. So whoever wants to have a future, do not forget and rewrite the past.

So they ask, why do you keep looking back at the distant past? What do you want from those who have never fought with you? They do not understand why the wounds would suddenly start bleeding after 80 (eighty!) Years? They believe that the wounds have healed long ago and there is no need to reopen them, that there is no need for the great-great-grandchildren of the participants in the War to artificially evoke patriotic feelings at great monetary costs. They ask in plain text, do you have any other worries? Spit on everyone from the high bell tower, take care of your welfare. Otherwise, according to Zhvanetsky: "Patriotism is a clear, clear, well-argued explanation that we should live worse than others."

[cniza]

No need to simplify, what does spit mean? and what values ​​to educate future generations on the LGBT? fire me. Once again, I emphasize my opinion, there is no future for those who cross out their history ...

[A. Privalov]

Quote: cniza

No need to simplify, what does spit mean? and what values ​​to educate future generations on the LGBT? fire me. Once again, I emphasize my opinion, there is no future for those who cross out their history ...

Is there nothing else besides that terrible war? Nothing good has happened in 75 years? These LGBT people have been given to you. Do you have people grabbing their sleeves in the streets? Blue with machine guns force sadomy? In our area, they are also not all tolerated. One even threw a knife at a lesbian and killed a girl, another arranged shooting at the club. But this is bad. In a free country, citizens have the right to control their own ass at their discretion.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: Campanella

convey objective data about all the secret springs of the second world war

and what exactly did he report? What concrete "objective secret springs" are we talking about?

[Ross xnumx]

According to some political experts, Putin's article "blew up the Western media," but Russia also reacted differently to it.

Actually, such a reaction was predictable. Western media have always been the property of individuals who used them to achieve their goals. The proposal to reveal the cards, providing wide access to historical documents and secret protocols, is a direct challenge to compare whose truth is stronger. Let this part of the article be discussed by those to whom it is intended.
However, there are such lines in the article:

Now we have new traditions born of the people, such as the Immortal Regiment. This is a march of our grateful memory, a vital, lively connection between generations. Millions of people go to processions with photographs of their relatives, who have defended the Fatherland and defeated Nazism. This means that their life, trials and sacrifices, the victory they gave us will never be forgotten.

Can these words about memory, about the connection between generations explain the economic and political system that is happening in the country, which meets the interests of the majority for the sake of which these sacrifices were made?
And further:

Our responsibility to the past and future is to do everything to prevent the recurrence of terrible tragedies.

And what has been done in this regard over twenty years, including the time of the 90s - the time of the revision of property, historical, economic, political and cultural values?

I read this article. Most of all I was interested in her true veracity of statements and sincerity of feelings of the person who published this and signed his name.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

Quote: ROSS 42

Most of all, I was interested in the true truthfulness of the statements and the sincerity of the feelings of the person who published this and signed his name.

Putin's portrait on the wall is not pacified?

[Ross xnumx]

Dr. Frankenstucker!
It is clear that they assembled from spare parts for Zaporozhets, but were taught to read something in Russian? I will add, for a complete perception:
Most of all I was interested in her “true truthfulness of statements and sincerity of feelings” of the person who published this and signed his name. Interested, because they do not fit with the affairs of the fourth term.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

but what does the number of terms have to do with it? The sacred "cementing and mobilizing" bond is His everything. Well, and "our everything", of course. There is nothing more spirit-lifting, except for the events of 80 years ago. And, well, even Orthodoxy, yes! These two braces symbolically merged in ecstasy at the Church of St. Shoigu in Patriot Park.

[An64]

Why was it necessary to repeat the old Soviet ideological premises?

"Obviously, there were no other options. Otherwise, the risks for the USSR would increase many times over, since, I repeat, the old Soviet-Polish border passed only a few tens of kilometers from Minsk, and the inevitable war with the Nazis would begin for the country from extremely unfavorable strategic positions. And millions of people of different nationalities, including Jews living near Brest and Grodno, Przemysl, Lvov and Vilno, would be thrown into extermination by the Nazis and their local minions - anti-Semites and radical nationalists"

Minsk was occupied on the 7th day of the war. Was it such an advantageous strategic position? Not on the second, but on the seventh ...
In fact, it was a miscalculation - to leave the old defensive lines without completing the creation of new, big miscalculation.
Or did the USSR deported Jews into the interior of the country? No, I didn’t deport them - they all lived as well "near Brest and Grodno, Przemysl, Lviv and Vilna".
Probably, we need to thoroughly understand why, with such active preparations for a future war, the USSR was absolutely not ready for it ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: An64

Or did the USSR deported Jews into the interior of the country? No, he didn’t deported - they all also lived "near Brest and Grodno, Przemysl, Lvov and Vilna."

They, like all citizens of the USSR, were not evacuated.

[Wolf]

Should I ask Stalin and Zhukov? The Navy was ready, but there was no force.

[Avior]

Stalin needs to be asked.
As it turned out, there were not the slightest plans for a war with the Nazis.
Even preventive. None.
A gross strategic miscalculation to which the military had nothing to do.

[tihonmarine]

The main criticism was the resolution adopted by the European Parliament on September 19, 2019, in which European deputies are actually trying to put an equal sign between the USSR and Nazi Germany.

Here is already too much. An equal sign should be put to all the countries of Europe that together Hitler Germany fought against the USSR, or their military units were part of the Wehrmacht or the Waffen SS.

[Wolf]

EXACTLY TICHONMARIN !!! To hide their benefits to Hitler and the Nazis, they came up with the equality of Hitler and Stalin !!!

[cniza]

everyone needs the truth about this war.

Oh, not everyone, this is a blow to everyone involved in unleashing it, so they will try to bury the truth.

[rocket757]

Hi
This is a direct revelation of the fact that everyone needs the truth! this has never been and never will be.

[cniza]

Here the author, apparently had in mind in our country, and then not everyone ... Greetings!

[rocket757]

For OUR, the topic is important. In general, it was adequately covered.
The fact that there were people with "bright faces" and rotten brains is disgusting. There are not many of them, but they dream of multiplying and poisoning everyone around them with their stench.
You need a disins / fect, because you can’t endure it anymore.

[cniza]

Quote: rocket757

You need a disins / fect, because you can’t endure it anymore.

This is for sure, and then revelry, especially among young people, is not right, we must not forget what our ancestors did ...

[rocket757]

In adolescents, immunity to lies is weak. Here only knowledge and life experience can help.
And it’s such a sweet lie, already be-eee ... but it sticks to your ears, for sure. it’s not fools who started it all ... so we should not stay lazy fools.

[cniza]

Quote: rocket757

And it’s such a sweet lie, already be-eee ... but it sticks to your ears, for sure. it’s not fools who started it all ... so we should not stay lazy fools.

Yes, whole institutes work there, to fool around ...

[rocket757]

Quote: cniza

Yes, whole institutes work there, to fool

They, in general, do not hide their goals .... They are created and work with the goal of destroying everything and anyone who can tell them not and send .... far.

[cniza]

Many can develop and plan, but to anticipate these plans and activities ...

[rocket757]

They try, they don’t stop even for a second .... and it’s good that they have a contingent of workers in this topic, just as dumb as everything else. There is no one to play subtly, cunningly, effectively, they switch to dull pressure. And the world has already shrunk like a spring, he can only break or straighten up! Who will win?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

This is a direct revelation of the fact that everyone needs the truth! this has never been and never will be.

The truth is not needed for those who fought against us, and who helped Hitler, and those who unleashed this war. Even surprisingly, Ukraine does not need it, or rather the current regime, although the people of Ukraine were in the camp of the victors and suffered enormous losses. I wonder how Ukrainians feel defeated or victorious.

[rocket757]

The truth is dangerous to those whose rot in the cabinets is hidden. And there are many.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

The truth is dangerous to those whose rot in the cabinets is hidden.

That's for sure, naphthalene needs to be strewed in the closet.

[rocket757]

No, no, it's like the Taiga cologne in a collective farm club.
Only activated carbon, lots, lots of coal. But no cabinet can stand such a required amount, it still falls out.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

No, no, it's like the Taiga cologne in a collective farm club.

I remember, I remember, but there were no mosquitoes.

[rocket757]

Well, yes, "Taiga", "Angara", and polish everything with cucumber moose.
Although, until now I do not understand how it could be used for other purposes.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

Well, yes, "Taiga", "Angara", and polish everything with cucumber moose.

Well, if they took polish and glue BF-2, then the cucumber moose went like "Napoleon". Even in 2000, we had a Ukrainian-made cologne "Triple", so it was taken apart for grabbing. I was ashamed to buy a bottle, God forbid the neighbors will see.

[rocket757]

If you recall .... there is nothing to be proud of either, Royal alcohol, it was not a little drunk .... it was lucky that the fishing partner had a father who was a great experimenter on tinctures, he turned this liquid into a completely drinkable product!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

If you recall .... also proud of nothing, Royal alcohol,

Honestly, I did not understand the use of colognes, lotions, Royal, when sugar is everywhere in bulk and prices are low, drive yourself a moonshine, a very good product is obtained.

[rocket757]

I made chacha from what grew out of me ... it was a sensible product and for a long time, then, was not preserved. I do it now, sometimes I keep it for years. Only for special occasions.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: rocket757

I do it now, sometimes I keep it for years.

I also made apples until my wife covered a bench. Although it did not last long.

[Wolf]

THE MOST IMPORTANT!!!

The Russian president accused a number of European politicians, in particular Polish ones, of trying to conceal information about the "Munich Agreement", which resulted in the division of Czechoslovakia. Putin recalled that it was attended by Hitler and Mussolini, as well as the heads of government of Great Britain and France, Neville Chamberlain and Edouard Daladier, and the partition itself was held with the full approval of the League of Nations

The Czechs called it: MINHENSKAYA betrayal.
The problem here is that the European "politicians" deb..and does not want to see how much it is similar to the partition of Serbia at the beginning of the 21st century, when Germany, in place with NATO, destroyed Yugoslavia and now I want to divide Serbia.


Then it will be announced in their history that nekatori novi "GAVRILO PRINCIPLE" is to blame for the world war !!!


Therefore, no one says about Minkhen Betrayal that the bi people did not understand what they are doing today!

[Wolf]

we also add because historians "do not know" 1 World War began with the OCCUPATION (Anexiom) of Bosnia at the end of the 19th century, when the Serbs liberated Bosnia from the Turkish occupation by the Herzegian uprising, the Turks and Habsburgs conspired to Occupy Bosnia on the side of the Habsburgs (Austria Hungary). When Gvrilo Princip slammed Ferdinand in 1914 in OKUPIRAN SARAEV, it was just the consequences of the occupation. Esli bi Hitler came to Belgrade for the 1941 parades, just as it was hitting so hard that Petar Petrovic would have killed him in Belgrade! Then, in history for the half-Idites, "historians" would write that World War II and the Holocaust of the Jews, like the genocide of the Slavs, began in Belgrade when Petar Petrovich slammed Hitler in Belgrade !!!

[Wolf]

And World War 3 began in 1999 with a bomb from Belgrade, because the "historians" do not see it !!!

[rocket757]

He poured kerosene into the fire, which the "foreign partners" have been trying to ignore for a long time and thoroughly. Let's see what happens. So there is nothing new, nothing known, to those who were interested, there is no.

[Dr. Frankenstucker]

According to some political experts, Putin's article "blew up the Western media"

"blew up", nd .... how could it be otherwise? Now pocket butts will be scattered in compliments to the Chief Historian of the Second World War.
I suspect that with the release of the article in the Russian media, the Lysoblyudskaya campaign will begin as with the Brezhnev trilogy.

[Free wind]

Deffenbachia has a very painful color. They say that a bad person is with her, with such a color on the leaves. Although, I would not keep this plant in the house.

[Aitvaras]

There is no doubt that this Red Banner was over the Reichstag in 1945, but, as in the article, President Putin wrote, given the honesty and objectivity of history, one can discuss with the opinion of the Author, for example, the statement about the League of Natsy and its effectiveness then is very doubtful, or, that the United States "nurtured" fascism by building factories, factories, etc. in Germany after WWI, but also in the USSR the United States then supplied technologies, equipment, machine tools, for example. GAZ, Magnitka and other industries. objects, then according to this logic it can be argued that the imperialists of the United States "nurtured" the communists of the USSR, which, in the opinion of the Germans at that time, may have been a threat to Germany.
About the perpetrators of WWII, in the main. The author is right, this is cowardice, selfishness, short-sightedness, etc., but then the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is not sinless. Stalin knew about Hitler's work "Mein Kampf", in Germany, politicians and not only Hitler did not hide the need for living space in the East, Barbarossa's plan in the USSR was known. In 1939-40, Germany had no opportunity to attack the USSR, in Poland, in 1939, the Germans used up almost all the bombs, the service life of the equipment of the German Armed Forces was also significantly spent, V. Britain and France declared war on Germany and began mobilizing that there would be a "strange war" then no one could have known. In 1940, only the "miracle of Dunkirk" saved the British army from almost complete destruction, and at that time the USSR had a benevolent neutrality towards Germany, like that of Sweden. There were supplies to Germany of coal, oil products, ore, and other strategic materials, and most importantly, a reliable rear was provided.

[NordUral]

In 1940, only the "miracle of Dunkirk" saved the British army from almost complete destruction, and at that time the USSR had a benevolent neutrality towards Germany, like Sweden. There were supplies to Germany of coal, oil products, ore, and other strategic materials, and most importantly, a reliable rear was ensured.

So much has come to us from Germany at the same time. And this pact was the victory of Stalin and the USSR, preventing the alliance of Western countries from being struck up against us, which was not fiction at all.

[Wolf]

The "Miracle of Dunkirk" was not, too, that historians would know, but the CONTRACT, and Hes did not fly to Britannia to see London as a tourist.

[lis-ik]

Russian President Vladimir Putin published in the American National Interest an article "75 Years of the Great Victory: Shared Responsibility to History and the Future"
Well, now this publication cannot be called the yellow press, as the streamers love, it will not work, otherwise they will be equated with criticism of the authorities.

[An64]

Quote: lis-ik

Well, now this publication cannot be called the yellow press, as the Screetrans love it.

Is the publication headed by Dmitry Simes, a Soviet émigré, friend of Molotov's grandson and presenter of Channel 1, someone called the "yellow press"?
The news feed is constantly replete with headlines like "As the NI expert said ...", "NI talked about ..." ...

[Guazdilla]

From the article:

In November 1940, the Führer Adolf Hitler made his last attempt to persuade the USSR to join the Alliance of the Third Reich, fascist Italy and militaristic Japan, Russian President Vladimir Putin wrote in his article for the American magazine The National Interest.

Hitler then tried to persuade the Soviet leadership, headed by Joseph Stalin, to unite with the Axis countries during the visit of the USSR People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs Vyacheslav Molotov to Berlin, but he did not give in.

When Vova Putin dreamed of becoming a scout, the damned commies made him step on the throat of his own beloved, liberal song. But, even this was his first good experience of owning himself into the legend of the future great mystifier, the result of which was an excellent biography of the pioneer-Komsomol member-communist.
And carbon monoxide Hitler, according to Vladimir Vladimirovich, stunningly fooled everyone, first in prison, writing "Mein Kampf", and then confirming this legend, jailing, shooting a bunch of communists and Jews. But, according to the article of the writer, this turned out to be enough to drive up to Stalin, the leader of the world proletariat with a shameless proposal for partnership. The hidden meaning is clear too, power-hungry people do not need any ideology.
It sometimes seems to me sometimes that something will not work out with a new ideology for Russia, patriotism promoted on behalf of the president, after such a free interpretation of the events of the preceding WWII.

[Petersburg printing house]

History could take a completely different path if Hitler considered options for mutually beneficial cooperation with the USSR (which happened until June 1944). But history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. In fact, the secret protocols of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact make the Soviet Union the same aggressor as Germany, which after the attack of the latter went beyond the borders of western Belarus, Ukraine and Poland, having joined them through military operations. Our Great Victory is a great achievement of our great-grandfathers who, at the cost of incredible efforts and sacrifices, made our free life possible. But history must be remembered as a whole picture, and not presented with its individual sections under the guise of true truth.

[NordUral]

But history must be remembered as a whole picture, and not presented with its individual sections under the guise of true truth.

Apply it to your remarks.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Petersburg typographer

History could take a completely different path if Hitler considered options for mutually beneficial cooperation with the USSR (which happened until June 1944). But history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. In fact, the secret protocols of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact make the Soviet Union the same aggressor as Germany, which after the attack of the latter went beyond the borders of western Belarus, Ukraine and Poland, having joined them through military operations. Our Great Victory is a great achievement of our great-grandfathers who, at the cost of incredible efforts and sacrifices, made our free life possible. But history must be remembered as a whole picture, and not presented with its individual sections under the guise of true truth.

You probably read it? I posted it here this notorious "secret protocol" It can be read in the original in German too The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact infuriates the British immensely because some undereducated seminarist managed to use her favorite weapon against the BI - he pitted his enemies with himself. By the way, the story of the Warsaw Uprising cannot be forgotten either, because Stalin did not succumb to the bait and simply watched with pleasure how the Fritz’s enemies convince the British litter from the Home Army. It is unbearable that the Russians insert the British with their beloved strapon.

[vladcub]

[quote = svp67] [quote = military_cat] Hungary and Slovakia were satellites of the "axis", no one has any questions about them, they were criminal regimes. [/ quote]
that's just no one claims to them ... [/ quote
And why should they make complaints to them when we are?

[Avior]

Well, there’s an article in the National. There is now Chinese Sohu next in turn :).

[Radikal]

An article by Vladimir Putin about World War II was published in an American magazine.

I got acquainted on the official website.
The mountain gave birth to ... a mouse. Repetition (and in a truncated form) of well-known facts. After reading it, I got the impression that the people gathered at the veche on Red Square and decided - Ayda to fight the fascist enemy, and went in a crowd, some with an ax, some with a spear, and some with a rattle ... Straight, as in "Burnt by the Sun" ....
In general, better than what is written in the 12-volume academic edition published by the Military Publishing House from 1973 to 1982. "History of the Second World War 1939-1945" hardly anyone will be able to present those events in the near future. It provides a deep analysis of the pre-war situation, the contradictions, and most importantly the reasons that led to the war, describes all the most important operations, in all theaters of operations, and illustrated with maps with the situation, in dynamics. I often turn to him when some "historians" begin to procrastinate on this or that topic of the past war. I think that at one time I was lucky to subscribe and redeem this publication in full.

[iouris]

Quote: Radikal

The mountain gave birth ... a mouse.

And what do you want: the history of the Russian Federation is unpredictable, and the historical science at the same time to the mice ...
There are, of course, "titans" such as Pivovarov, who did not know where to attach the archives, but he is not subject to jurisdiction. By the way, among other things, the archives of US newspapers seem to have "disappeared" without a trace, almost since the creation of this "democratic" state. Well, how can we develop science?

[Tank hard]

Then I liked Putin, well done. Here is a video about this, and they are still silent!

[NordUral]

A word close to Putin contribution scratched painfully. It can be said about the States that they invested with interest, but not about the USSR.

[Tank hard]

Quote: NordUral

It can be said about the States that they invested with interest, but not about the USSR.

You, as a noble citizen of the United States, know the ultimate.

[NordUral]

Do not drink so much, von Messer, is unhealthy. And glitches begin to visit you.

[Radikal]

Quote: Tank Hard

Then I liked Putin, well done. Here is a video about this, and they are still silent!

This guy from the video, which Ostashko needs to change his shirt to another ....

[Tank hard]

Quote: Radikal

This guy from the video, which Ostashko needs to change his shirt to another ..

Or maybe you need to change the avatar? For, judging by your comment, this Ostashko is a greater supporter of Stalin than you.

[Radikal]

Quote: Tank Hard

Quote: Radikal

This guy from the video, which Ostashko needs to change his shirt to another ..

Or maybe you need to change the avatar? For, judging by your comment, this Ostashko is a greater supporter of Stalin than you.

Really? If you believe the video that you posted, then it looks more like an associate of the Guarantor.

[Tank hard]

Quote: Radikal

Really? If you believe the video that you posted, then it looks more like an associate of the Guarantor.

Well, if you do not agree with his comments, but agree with people like Garry Kasparov, then your avatar, is this apparently such a banter?

[Razvedka_Boem]

My grandfather fought, like most on the site .. There is an order and medals.
Further comment does not make sense.
I agree with GDP.

[gyroscope]

I read foreign news sites, I came across an article from Victoria Nuland
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2020-06-09/pinning-down-putin
Read, informative ....

[Tank hard]

Quote: Gyroscope

I came across an article from Victoria Nuland

Yeah, and she can also distribute cookies with pies. "Not continuing" auntie.

[grumbler]

Naturally, Putin did not mention the article (http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/63527) about the initially destabilizing role of Bolshevik Russia itself.
It was the separate world of the Bolsheviks with Germany (in fact - the betrayal of the Allies of the Entente) that led the French and the British to punish Germany so hard after the victory that had been so hard for them. And not only because it was a geopolitical victory in the clash of colonial empires.
But also because Russia was not among the winners, which would not allow Germany to dictate such humiliating and unbearable conditions of peace, traditionally having close dynastic, financial-industrial, scientific and cultural ties with Germany. And just human - a noticeable part of Russian engineers, doctors, artisans, officials and officers (who honestly fought at the WWI front for Russia!) Were ethnic Germans.

Bolshevism was extremely aggressive from the first days of its existence. He elevated to the rank of state ideology incompatibility, class enmity, repression against dissidents. The Bolsheviks opposed themselves to Christianity and bourgeois virtues dominant in Europe, the USA.
In fact, by this, having paved the way for the ideology of Nazism - at the heart of which is the same division of society into "ours and not ours", the cult of "state violence" and rejection of humanistic values.

The Soviets raved about a "world revolution" for a long time - which threatened to destabilize the entire Western world and the regions under its control (already unstable due to the beginning of the decolonization processes); among the accusations of the Great Terror of the 30s). Therefore, in particular, even in the liberal-bourgeois democracies (Britain, France, Belgium and even the United States) there were many sympathizers of Francoism, Italian fascism and even Nazism. in authoritarian leaders such as Hitler, Franco, Mussolini or Pilsudski, many bourgeois saw protection from the "Reds and Jews", not trusting the "liberal talkers" (for example, France approached the WWII politically weakened, where a dozen governments were replaced in 10 years).

Putin is somehow too "openly naive" for a politician of this level, ignoring the annexation of the Baltic states by the USSR and the unsuccessful attack on Finland. Which divided pre-war Europe even more (Putin mentioned the League of Nations, but also chose not to focus on why the USSR was excluded from it and why it turned out to be ineffective) and gave Hitler the illusion that he would be able to take advantage of these contradictions (after all, this is not so was an illusion, judging by the victims of WWII). And what about the "contradictory" policy of the USSR in the war in Spain? High-profile political murders and abductions, which the GPU-NKVD sinned in Europe against the leaders of the Russian anti-communist emigration and before Mexico (Trotsky's murder)? - so reminiscent of the murky case of the Sripals.
Thus, the USSR also has a fair amount of blame for the fact that in pre-war Europe it was not possible to create a single anti-Nazi front and prevent the victims of WWII / WWII.

Such an unbalanced article would be perfect for domestic use in Russia by May 9th. And even then anyone who, apart from the propaganda of the Soloviev-Skabeyevs-Pushkov-Kulikovs and others, at least occasionally opens the magazines Rodina, Clio, or Russia in Global Affairs, etc., will be surprised at its “kindergarten” level.
To palm off "such" on the President of Russia for publication in foreign media - imho, this is a successful "ideological sabotage of damned liberals" (they are always to blame for everything;)

[ccsr]

Quote: grumbler

Bolshevism was extremely aggressive from the first days of its existence. He elevated to the rank of state ideology incompatibility, class enmity, repression against dissidents. The Bolsheviks opposed themselves to Christianity and bourgeois virtues dominant in Europe, the USA.

All the caveman anti-communists repeat this mantra, but they do not take into account that Russia lay in ruins after the Civil War and could not influence international affairs in any way. As for the agreements of the twenties, based on the state of the USSR, these were quite successful actions that brought us out of isolation, which in itself would deserve respect.

Quote: grumbler

For a long time the Soviets raved about the "world revolution" - which threatened to destabilize the entire Western world and the regions under its control

You, too, can rave about the last winner of the Miss World contest, but you do not have so much money for her to show any interest in you as a man, so you will have to limit your interest to your own wife. It was the same in the USSR after the Civil War - figuratively speaking, no "world revolution" would have given itself to us.

Quote: grumbler

Putin is somehow too "openly naive" for a politician of this level, ignoring the annexation of the Baltic states by the USSR and the unsuccessful attack on Finland.

Do not make people laugh, this is not a kindergarten and people know how to look a little deeper than printed letters. If you do not understand that Putin's article is a politically verified statement, worked out at least at the level of several ministries headed by the head of the Foreign Ministry, then it is useless for you to explain that Putin personally only signed this text, making adjustments and giving general instructions. You seem to be one of those who believed that the editorials in Pravda were written by general secretaries. After Stalin, hardly anyone did it - for some reason I am sure of this.

Quote: grumbler

Such an unbalanced article would be perfect for domestic use in Russia by May 9th.

On the contrary, it is precisely on June 22 that such articles are published in order to attract the attention of international media to the problem of responsibility of the West for the attack on the USSR.

Quote: grumbler

To palm off "such" on the President of Russia for publication in foreign media - imho, this is a successful "ideological sabotage of damned liberals" (they are always to blame for everything;)

Do not fantasize - I think a similar article was in the plans for 2020 at the end of 2019, when the presidential administration is planning events for next year. Impromptu in such cases does not happen, if it concerns questions of history, because this is not another death of a Negro in the United States, when you can blame anything on the topic "and you have blacks hanging."

[grumbler]

Konda "this mantra is repeated by all cave anti-communists," they all take into account.
And as a typical "caveman anti-Bolshevik" (true truth!) I said about this - a bad "example is contagious." And even more so, such methods of "solving the final solution of the issue", whether Jewish or class, against the background of the global financial crisis and the "collapse of empires", were in the air.

It was the same in the USSR after the Civil War - figuratively speaking, no "world revolution" would have given itself to us.

And you see a realist. Only the Bolshevik-Trotskyists were still rushing about with these fantasies for a long time (and not entirely without foundation - the revolution in Germany, the growth of left movements in Europe.
In what year was the Comintern disbanded? - by the time they realized that they would have to "build in a separate country."

Do not tell people, this is not a kindergarten and people know how to look a little deeper than typed letters. If you don’t understand that Putin’s article is a politically verified statement, worked out at least at the level of several ministries led by the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, then it’s useless for you to explain that Putin personally signed this text,

So I'm just talking about this - "a politically verified statement." Very one-sided, the text was composed for him. And that is why it is very vulnerable to criticism.
And your reference to the ministries does not sound very convincing - the level of expertise in our country has fallen catastrophically (and not least because there is a "negative selection" of those who submit "anything's?"). Confirmation of this is the "brilliant" foreign policy of all these powerful "ministries and departments" in the direction of Ukraine, Georgia, Poland, the Baltic countries. Soon Belarus may join them. And then Putin has to cut the Gordian knots tightened by his own unfortunate creatures.

Do not fantasize - I think a similar article was in the plans for 2020 at the end of 2019

Are you arguing with yourself? Did I say somewhere about spontaneity? Not.
I agree - everything was done according to plan, I would say thoughtfully ... - the result is only "as always". I'm talking about that.

Starting with the Munich speech, Putin does strange things. Why openly oppose the Western world without political, economic, or industrial potential? To further anger our enemies in the West? Why make the neutrals bow to the camp of enemies?
And why substitute our friends in the West? (and there are many of them) To whom, after such sloppy statements, it is very difficult to convince their compatriots that Russia is only snarling.
All the same could be done quietly, without making loud statements, gradually building muscles.
We still have a very weak economy. Russia has no allies - from the word in general. In the "allied" countries there are no elites who have a common worldview with us (except, maybe, China, but it is very selfish and closed). They are solving purely tactical tasks - they will stay in power in their countries. This is the maximum that they can do. But they do not have a single view of the Strategy for the Future. (again, the exception is China - they have a Big Strategy, but this is precisely their vision, where Russia is "assigned a place"). See how all Western allies line up like a pig on matters of principle.
This is a consequence of the Unified Ideological Attitudes, Political Culture in the elites of the Western countries (I do not discuss whether they are true or not).

Moscow could not achieve anything in detail, since we ourselves do not have a Strategy for the Future. Our "horizon" is another term of V.V.P. Is this a strategy ?? Where are the mechanisms for renewing elites? Where are the mechanisms of homeostasis - competing mechanisms of development and conservative?

As a liberal, I have only one answer - with such foreign political means, Putin solves purely domestic political problems. In this case, to consolidate the society around you, playing on our national quality - to rally around the leader at a difficult moment. For this, Russia must be kept in a state of "besieged fortress" all the time. I fully agree with A. Privalov 19 June 2020 21:36 "... there is no need for the great-great-grandchildren of the participants in the War to artificially evoke patriotic feelings, with great monetary costs." and I myself ask - do we have any other worries?
And we are literally forcibly forced to "move forward, remaining facing backward."

[ccsr]

Quote: grumbler

And as a typical "caveman anti-Bolshevik" (really true!)

This usually indicates an inadequate perception of the world, so I sympathize with you.

Quote: grumbler

And you see a realist.

This is natural - I used to be one before, and for many years I’ve been behind it, so you become realist, if your brains understand.

Quote: grumbler

So I'm just talking about this - "a politically verified statement." Very one-sided, the text was composed for him. And that is why it is very vulnerable to criticism.

For the western man in the street, simple texts are needed that are easy to read - you probably know that contingent poorly, but I have an idea. That's why I think the article is quite normal.

Quote: grumbler

We still have a very weak economy. Russia has no allies - from the word in general.

This doesn’t matter to us at all - as long as we lead in the field of armaments, the devil is not afraid of us. If only the elite were not sold to the West, and Putin is watching over it, judging by the landings of some officials.

Quote: grumbler

As a liberal, I have only one answer - with such foreign political means, Putin solves purely domestic political problems.

I believe that under the conditions of the blockade of Russia Today and Sputnik, this is an excellent breakthrough for entering the Western media. So it's not about internal PR, you are wrong about that.

Quote: grumbler

And we are literally forcibly forced to "move forward, remaining facing backward."

This is all demagogy, because the issues of operational management of the country are much more important for Putin than all your maxims about where we are moving. And this is understood by those who themselves managed at least at the level of the middle workshop in Soviet times. Now they understand what Putin has to face in everyday life, especially given the fact that the personnel of the government are clearly not the best.

[grumbler]

For the western man in the street, simple texts are needed that are easy to read - you probably know that contingent poorly, but I have an idea. That's why I think the article is quite normal.

I am not flattering myself, but - the "contingent" simply will not read It, do you understand?
The West, represented by the "contingent", graduated from WWII 75 years ago. The Beatles and other Liverpudlians started their careers in clubs in Hamburg. Which was only rebuilt after it was almost completely destroyed by the allied aviation - the children, whose fathers "yesterday" killed each other, were already hanging out together in the late 50s. And only the totalitarian USSR, North. Korea, China continued to wind up - "War, war, war! Don't you dare forget. You are dissatisfied with something? No boots, no tights? Kommunalka?" But there was a war. .. "

And you can hang your labels as "caveman anti-communist", "demagogue" (and what else is accepted there, "class enemy"? - you can see the Bolshevik leaven, the dictionary of "political information"). But in the USSR (as in Russia today), the Second World War was made a propaganda tool in order to prevent reforms, precisely those people whose horizon of "operational management of the country" does not extend beyond "the level of the average workshop in Soviet times."
But, even in the CPSU, the larger people saw that strategically the USSR was going “in the wrong direction” (even Lenin with his plans for NEP, and before the plans of reforms by Beria or Kosygin). But they were not allowed to liberalize the USSR, which is political and economic, like Russia today. The result is known - the very "greatest geopolitical catastrophe."

... especially given that the government’s personnel are clearly not the best.

And where did he get such a composition of the government? - Did the oligarchs impose it on Yeltsin? No, Putin "deleted all of them equally" (for which I sincerely thank him,
because, according to all my pocketbooks of the State Department, the oligarchy is one of the main threats to democracy).
Or does he have to be a "lame duck" when the government is incapacitated, because it was formed according to the coalition principle ("swan, cancer and pike", which is not uncommon in democracies), or completely oppositional parties in parliament? - Again, no. There are no "parties" in our "no place for discussion" at all.
We have a government "named after President-Russian-Federation-Vladimir-Vladimirovich-Putin" - he assembled it and himself created a system that, as under the Soviets, does not allow "fresh brains" to run the country.

No, the article is weak - not a "state" article.

[ccsr]

Quote: grumbler

No, the article is weak - not a "state" article.

But your entire demagogy about the article and the eaten up egg are not worth it. As for whether Putin’s article will be read in the West, it’s not for you to judge - you’re afraid to admit that it’s just another propaganda step to bring our point of view to the whole world, and this alone was worth publishing in an American publication.

Quote: grumbler

We have a government "named after President-Russian-Federation-Vladimir-Vladimirovich-Putin" - he assembled it and himself created a system that, as under the Soviets, does not allow "fresh brains" to run the country.

What you personally have is unlikely to concern the vast majority of the country - they believe Putin, and it infuriates you. Do not take it to heart - the dog barks, the caravan goes ...

[grumbler]

Let's end this senseless squabble. Your arguments boil down to the word "demagoguery" repeated ten times and groundless accusations that I "don't understand", "I'm afraid", "enrages" something.
Yes, like everyone else I don’t understand much, I’m afraid of something and many things infuriate me. But obviously not what you accuse me of.
In conclusion, I return you your "compliments" - the only thing you have convinced me is that you yourself are a typical narrow-minded dogmatist-Bolshevik. Than once again proved the defectiveness of this ideology
and strengthened me in my beliefs, thank you.

[ccsr]

Quote: grumbler

Your arguments

Here you have someone else's arguments for a proper assessment:
"The British Foreign Office commented on Putin's article on World War II"
https://news.mail.ru/politics/42262493/
Kommersant
"The Russian Ambassador spoke about the reaction of Germany to Putin's article
An article by Russian President Vladimir Putin on World War II actively discussed in political, scientific circles and the general public, Russian Ambassador to Berlin Sergei Nechaev told RIA Novosti. "
https://news.mail.ru/politics/42319239/?frommail=1
Do you need to throw something else, or learn how to use the search engine yourself?

[Radikal]

Quote: Tank Hard

Quote: Radikal

This guy from the video, which Ostashko needs to change his shirt to another ..

Or maybe you need to change the avatar? For, judging by your comment, this Ostashko is a greater supporter of Stalin than you.

Firstly, I do not see a logical connection between my avatar and the hero - the author of the video that you posted. Secondly, from the content of the video it is obvious that Ostashko is really a big supporter, not just Stalin, but the Guarantor. Respectfully, and see you again for exciting meetings.

[Radikal]

Quote: Tank Hard

Quote: Radikal

Really? If you believe the video that you posted, then it looks more like an associate of the Guarantor.

Well, if you do not agree with his comments, but agree with people like Garry Kasparov, then your avatar, is this apparently such a banter?

And that there is no alternative anymore? Either agree with Ostashko, or with Kasparov? And if I have a third, alternative opinion that does not coincide with the views of the above individuals - then what?

[dvv1951]

There was nowhere but war

I listened to the order of the young battalion commander:
We need to take the height before evening.
The attack of three mouths will be after sunset,
So fewer people die in the light

And so when we crawled under the thorn,
Hiding the maneuver in the coming darkness,
Sapper blade with long handle
It touched a stone on frozen ground.

Then with a battery that's right on the front
Fell for a few minutes at a knock.
I knew in my life only school and company
The war prevented being someone else.

And so he stayed, covered in a funnel,
Forever clutching a rotten butt
I will never confess my love to a girl.
An incoming shell cut my way

And from above flowering, songbirds,
Heavenly blue, sonorous girl laugh
And I didn’t have to fall in love in this life
I gave it for the living, for everyone.


© Copyright: Gennady Malinsky, 2010

[dvv1951]

Soviet-German non-aggression pact of 1939. Question of reality
the existence of a secret supplementary protocol.

The existence of the protocol was denied by V.M. Molotov until his death in 1986. According to the existing legend, accepted in international relations as truth, an additional protocol was discovered on October 27, 1992 by the former high-ranking CPSU figure Dmitry Antonovich Volkogonov (1928-1995).
Could a career Soviet political worker have reason not to love his Motherland and do something nasty to her? Certainly. The father was shot in 1937, the mother with three children was exiled to the Irbeysky district of the Krasnoyarsk Territory, where she died in 1947. According to biographical data, the personal archive of Dmitry Volkogonov since 1996 has been in the Library of Congress. What Western historians write about this person: "Our main disagreement with you concerns the fundamental issues of the methodology of historical analysis, the goals of research. Your methodological approach seems to us absolutely inappropriate, because it is based not on the desire to clarify the historical truth, but on an open political situation. leads to the fact that many of your conclusions sound completely unconvincing, and the reasoning is accompanied by an incredible number of errors and even falsifications. (Pierre Bruet, Alexander Pantsov. "Open letter to General D. A. Volkogonov")
Even with a cursory acquaintance with the material of German photographs (the original of the protocol was not preserved) and with the papers Volkogonov found, a person with good vision can detect:
1. On the protocol itself and the explanation to it, Molotov's signature is made with a different calligraphic style of writing the letter "t". In words (protocol) and with a lower stick (explanation). Have you seen that at least one leader changed signatures within 1 minute? In the sample of Molotov's signature in the encyclopedia and in countless documents, the "t" is written with a lower stick.
2. In the Soviet copy, in the signature of Molotov, there is a dash above the capital letter "t". In German, no. All other small details of the text are the same.
3. Ribbentrop's signatures clearly do not match the signature model in the encyclopedia. Moreover, they fundamentally differ on the Soviet and German copies in the calligraphic style of the beginning and end of the signature. So in the Soviet Union there is underscore at the end of the signature. In German, no.
4. The Soviet copy contains a blot when the name of the river "Narev" is printed. It is absent in German. Moreover, the letter "a" pointed from above has signs of using a ballpoint pen.
5. The very execution of documents, especially the absence of imprinted names of officials, gives the impression that they were drawn up in a hurry, on the knee. Having access to top-secret documents and working with them while serving in the army, I have never seen the "Secret plan", "secret map" and other things in the titles of documents. It was just that the document was registered and the appropriate stamp was affixed on it.
6. Clause "4" reads: This protocol will be kept in strict confidence by BOTH parties. According to the spelling of the Russian language, it is correct: "by both sides." The Soviet government did not know the rules of the Russian language? The same error in paragraph 1.
7. In the phrase "For the Government of Germany, a large letter" P "is written in different styles. Moreover, this can be clearly seen without any effort.
8. In the second paragraph in the phrase "Polish State" the second word is written with a capital letter. According to the rules for writing proper names and geographical names, it should be with a small one.
Output. What they give us as an official historical document is very doubtful.