Military Review

An article by Vladimir Putin about World War II was published in an American magazine.

311
An article by Vladimir Putin about World War II was published in an American magazine.

Russian President Vladimir Putin published an article in the American edition of National Interest, “75 years of the Great Victory: shared responsibility before history and the future "dedicated to the Second World War. The material was published in English, the Russian version was published on the Kremlin website and" Rossiyskaya Gazeta ".


According to Putin, today's European politicians are trying to reconsider the reasons for the outbreak of World War II, thereby equating the USSR with Nazi Germany. The main criticism was the resolution adopted by the European Parliament on September 19, 2019, in which European deputies are actually trying to equate the USSR and Nazi Germany.

Putin draws attention to the fact that World War II could have been prevented if Great Britain and France had acted more decisively, and the League of Nations created after World War I had shown its effectiveness, which was not done. The proposals of the Soviet Union to create a European security system were ignored.

The Russian president accused a number of European politicians, in particular Polish, of trying to withhold information about the "Munich agreement", which resulted in the division of Czechoslovakia. Putin recalled that Hitler and Mussolini, as well as the heads of government of Great Britain and France Neville Chamberlain and Eduard Daladier participated in it, and the section itself was fully approved by the League of Nations.

Putin noted the contribution of the USSR to the defeat of Nazi Germany. According to him, the contribution of the Soviet Army to the defeat of the Nazis is three quarters. Against this background, articles are increasingly appearing in the European press trying to distort the truth about World War II and the reasons for its beginning, especially the Molotov-Ribbentropp Pact.

The President called on other countries to declassify archives regarding documents on the Second World War and reiterated Russia's consent to international cooperation.

We do not know if there are any secret “protocols” or additions to the agreements that a number of countries have concluded with the Nazis. The only thing left for us is to take their word for it,

- Putin stressed.

In conclusion, the Russian president said that he did not intend to assume the role of a judge in matters of the history of World War II, but believed that everyone needed the truth about this war.

For our part, we note that the published material caused an ambiguous reaction. According to some political experts, Putin’s article “blew up the Western media,” however, Russia responded differently to it.
Photos used:
http://www.kremlin.ru/
311 comments
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  1. BecmepH
    BecmepH 19 June 2020 10: 35 New
    53
    Putin noted the contribution of the USSR to the defeat of Nazi Germany.
    The word "contribution" twisted me ... WE WON! And if not for our successes, then contributions there were no other countries ...
    1. depressant
      depressant 19 June 2020 10: 43 New
      28
      WesternN, correct remark. In diplomatic language, the word “contribution”, even when 2/3 is mentioned, is a recognition of the equalness of the efforts of all to defeat Nazi Germany. There was no equilibrium. It was our victory. Dot.
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 19 June 2020 10: 56 New
        10
        Now, The National Interest just does not scold you at the next reprint of a strange article from there, they can sew insult to the authorities. laughing
        1. depressant
          depressant 19 June 2020 11: 17 New
          +7
          It is good that Putin wrote such an article. But I believe that in modern political conditions, when we are being squeezed from all sides, they are unreasonably accused of such sins, which are just a product of the ill imagination of the accused, you cannot use the outdated idea of ​​the need for diplomatic smoothing of corners. I understand that now there will be a lot of information about the powerful contribution to the victory of Western countries. And if we lost? Despite their "powerful contribution"? It makes sense for us all to think about it. They thought something. Even a bunch of TV shows Hollywood filmed about how Hitler and Japan established power over the world, and what came of it. Prudent receptions of diplomacy are perceived by the Western world insolent in its aggressive madness as a manifestation of weakness. Tougher, tougher. Calm, but tougher.
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 19 June 2020 14: 35 New
            13
            An article by Vladimir Putin about World War II was published in an American magazine.

            The "Recorder" award would have been instituted on such an occasion. He withdrew for the sake of writing an article, in fact. And he barricaded himself from pressing problems and uncomfortable questions.
            And if we lost?

            Our Soviet ancestors won ... And we live under the flags of the losers. And the stars changed to crosses ... Coat of arms - I don’t know at all how to characterize culturally. Even if all officials begin to scream and register every day, one must clearly understand that Victory is achieved not by idle chatter and paper scrambling, but by concrete actions and their results. It is possible to marry the whole World in a circle in a ostentatious order in vain and flap fireworks every day - everything will be wasted. The army is not red in parades, but in victories. We need to complete the fact that our ancestors did not have time and never stoop to the state in which the victorious country is now.
            1. Gardamir
              Gardamir 19 June 2020 15: 02 New
              14
              Our Soviet ancestors won ... And we live under the flags of the losers


              just changed characters.
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 19 June 2020 15: 09 New
                +8
                just changed characters.

                Colleague hi , swapped. And then they wonder why they do not respect. Although it is well known that
                “They don't like traitors anywhere, they only use them” (C) Dominic Strauss-Kahn, 10th IMF Managing Director


        2. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 13: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: military_cat
          Now The National Interest is just not scolding


          laughing

          Now NI is overshadowed by the personality of Himself - the number of reprints and citations will increase significantly. Even Shapiro aka Solovyov will have to refer to this handshake publication))))
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 19 June 2020 14: 44 New
            +6
            There are serious respected publications, and NI is from the category of those who “read” in the toilet exclusively with “one eye” (the third), in the absence of the necessary “hygiene products”. It is hardly worth being proud of such popularity. Readers will simply give the expected “positive” rating. She, along with the memories of such articles, is amazingly quickly washed off. laughing
            1. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 14: 58 New
              -2
              Quote: lexus
              NI - from the category of those who "read" in the toilet


              uh ... Now NO !!! Exclusively with a spiritualized face, sober and with a St. George ribbon on an alcoholic T-shirt !! laughing
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 19 June 2020 15: 16 New
                +4
                with St. George ribbon

                The most well-deserved ribbons during the Great Patriotic War and, as a result of it, were put on “Judas” after the sentences of military tribunals. All today's "reproductions" are from the evil one. See the video in the comment above.
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 19 June 2020 17: 08 New
              +2
              Quote: lexus
              It is hardly worth being proud of such popularity. Readers will simply give the expected “positive” rating.

              Let's put aside unnecessary scrupulousness, but just for ourselves we conclude that this should have been dealt with not now, but even before Crimea became part of Russia. So to use this platform, even if it’s not very well known, to present our view of history, is not only useful but also necessary. Especially taking into account the interest of the Western layman to Putin’s personality. It is easy to predict that this resource will be visited by many people, and this accordingly will make other resources try to host an interview with the head of the country. So our PR specialists made an excellent move, especially in connection with the 75th anniversary of the Victory, and this must be recognized, not criticized for being placed there. Remember the speeches of Brezhnev and the work of Lenin, which the Soviet government published in the West, and which no one read there - at least we don’t have to pay for the article here, and this is a plus.
              1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 20: 31 New
                -3
                Quote: ccsr
                and even before the entry of Crimea into Russia.


                and what is the connection? What does the Crimea have to do with it? Do you think that if Putin tells us what an innocent pacifist and victim of treachery the USSR was, then in the West they will not draw an analogy between the Crimea and the Sudetenland? But it’s just not easy to recall Munich, introducing foreign territory into its composition. laughing


                Quote: ccsr
                to state our view of history


                and who is interested in the west?
                Quote: ccsr
                Western man’s interest in Putin’s personality


                the western man doesn’t give a damn what Putin thinks about WWII. He will be bored of listening to Putin's opinion from the first paragraph. The average person is interested in Putin-macho, Putin-dictator, Putin-cheater, Putin with a naked torso and his other incarnations of this kind, but not Putin-historian.
                Quote: ccsr
                So our PR specialists made a great move,

                How is he great? On a non-staff resource, known for its yellowishness and military pop, to put it mildly, the head of state, who considers himself one of the poles of power, posts a rather gray and populist article - and? The choice of a resource, by the way, is rather strange.
                Any PR specialist or editor will tell you that such “revelations” that do not contain anything absolutely sensational are good except in the form of an interview.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 20 June 2020 09: 59 New
                  0
                  Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                  and what is the connection? What does the Crimea have to do with it?

                  And despite the fact that this was the starting point of Western hysteria and the beginning of the introduction of many sanctions.
                  Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                  then in the West will not draw an analogy between the Crimea and the Sudetenland?

                  They won’t do smart things, because they know how the annexation differs from the results of the referendum after the coup in Ukraine. Was a coup d'etat in Czechoslovakia in 1938?
                  Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                  Western philistines don't give a damn what Putin thinks about WWII.

                  Not quite so, judging by the hysteria when he called the Polish ambassador a pig - then many became alarmed, and not only in Poland.
                  Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                  The choice of a resource, by the way, is rather strange.

                  It's strange for you, but quite normal for me, especially in the era of the Internet, when such an article does not go unnoticed.
                  Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                  Any PR specialist or editor will tell you that such “revelations” that do not contain anything absolutely sensational are good except in the form of an interview.

                  PR specialists are of the opinion that they are paid, so there is no need to tell tales about their "independence" here. My opinion may also be independent of many who write on the forums, because for a long time I have not been dependent on anyone to a certain extent.
                  1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 11: 57 New
                    -5
                    Quote: ccsr
                    PR specialists are of the opinion that they are paid, so there is no need to tell tales about their "independence" here.

                    and where did I mention the "independence" of PR ??? Bother pointing!
                  2. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 12: 41 New
                    -3
                    Quote: ccsr
                    And despite the fact that this was the starting point of Western hysteria and the beginning of the introduction of many sanctions.

                    So what? Does Putin's reflections on WWII somehow correlate with Crimean events?
                    Quote: ccsr
                    what they know how the annexation differs from the outcome of the referendum

                    In 1975 97% of Sikkim residents voted to join India. Entered, now it is an Indian state. And thirty years before, when India gained independence (why not a revolution?), Sikkim sent Nah Nehr with his urgent proposal to become a member. And yet, it is considered a classic annexation. But I already somehow forgot about it. Forget about the Crimea.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 20 June 2020 16: 59 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                      So what? Does Putin's reflections on WWII somehow correlate with Crimean events?

                      They take place in the outline of West-West villainy in relation to the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR and modern Russia. In this case, Putin could have remained silent, but they were too overwhelmed, so they had to beat them with their own bacon before.
                      Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                      In 1975 97% of Sikkim residents voted to join India.

                      We have enough of our problems, but apparently you also needed Indian ones? I personally do not care who listened to whom and where they were sent to - here I am clearly not a listener of your revelations.
                      Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                      Forget about the Crimea.

                      I completely agree with this. But we will still have a lot of blood to drink.
                      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                        Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 17: 21 New
                        -1
                        Quote: ccsr
                        We have enough of our problems, but apparently you also needed Indian ones?

                        I just gave an elementary historical analogy. What does the Indians have to do with it?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        beat them with bacon to their muslims.

                        fucked up, yeah. Right manifest. Well, I’d print it on a Polish resource, it’s their scabies about who raped them there in the 39th.
                      2. ccsr
                        ccsr 20 June 2020 17: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                        I just gave an elementary historical analogy. What does the Indians have to do with it?

                        In order to properly evaluate what was happening in Crimea, you need to know at least our history since pre-Petrine times. And we have an idea about this. But what the Indians had there, for us the example is not correct - they still have castes, i.e. in general, something that is not clear to our mind, and you are already aligning them with us.
                        Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                        Right manifest.

                        Of course, Karl Marx does not reach, but he hit the article well, since such a scream has risen even in our internet and the media. And the West will not be able to notice this article, and this is a good argument for future publications.
                  3. gsev
                    gsev 20 June 2020 20: 02 New
                    0
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    it is considered a classic annexation
                    Before 1975, Chögyal Sikkim was held in power by guards from Tibetan refugees. The country was on the brink of civil war. Sikkim alone could not maintain independence and even just the identity of China. So the entry of Sikkim into India was the best solution for all its inhabitants except Chögyal. And it was even a blessing for the Tibetans loyal to the Chogyal from his guard.
                2. BecmepH
                  BecmepH 20 June 2020 13: 44 New
                  0
                  Quote: ccsr
                  Not quite so, judging by the hysteria when he called the Polish ambassador a pig - then many were alarmed,

                  You’ll be called that; you will be alarmed too. And not only you, but also your loved ones
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 20 June 2020 17: 02 New
                    +2
                    Quote: BecmepH
                    You’ll be called that; you will be alarmed too. And not only you, but also your loved ones

                    If Trump or Merkel called me, I would even be proud of it and would certainly report it to VO. What can you do, a man is weak, sometimes he wants the whole world to know about him ...
                    So do not worry about me - I agree to this situation.
                  2. ccsr
                    ccsr 20 June 2020 17: 02 New
                    +1
                    Quote: BecmepH
                    You’ll be called that; you will be alarmed too. And not only you, but also your loved ones

                    If Trump or Merkel had called me that, I would have been proud of it and would have reported it to VO. What can you do, a man is weak, sometimes he wants the whole world to know about him ...
                    So do not worry about me - I agree to this situation.
                    1. BecmepH
                      BecmepH 20 June 2020 17: 27 New
                      -1
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Quote: BecmepH
                      You’ll be called that; you will be alarmed too. And not only you, but also your loved ones

                      If Trump or Merkel had called me that, I would have been proud of it and would have reported it to VO. What can you do, a man is weak, sometimes he wants the whole world to know about him ...
                      So do not worry about me - I agree to this situation.

                      Plus to you for your judgment and patience.
    2. kupitman
      kupitman 19 June 2020 12: 17 New
      +1
      when you really want to throw on a fan, but there seems to be nothing to throw, you can touch the words. I’ll tell you more - there, in the article, there are anti-Soviet propaganda, etc. by the list
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 19 June 2020 14: 59 New
        +3
        A colleague, I add, I have no doubt that this "creativity" was published with the goal of being thrown on a "nullifier." Based on the domestic consumer, because it is not accepted to “blow” strongly towards the “partners” of potential refugees. Then they may not accept it.
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 19 June 2020 14: 23 New
      +3
      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, in fact, this is already an established pattern. .
      Maybe not quite in place, but I want to say what I’ve been thinking about for a long time.
      Russia has traditionally had a high culture, people read a lot and their vocabulary was high. Over time, the culture of the population began to decline.
      To a large extent this is also connected with literature: if we compare the style of Pushkin, Lermontov, Nikitin, Fet and 20 writers into this heaven and earth! I don’t want to offend anyone, but FEW of the 20th century visitors can compare with the 19th century writers.
      And now people read a little, and think even less. I don’t need to read a book to me, but I’m thinking, I’ll look in the “box” on the Internet, read something and already have a “clever yack of a witch.”
      Ilf and Petrov have such a character: "Elochka-cannibalistic", she had as many as 30 words for all occasions and we turn into such "Elochka"
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 19 June 2020 17: 17 New
        0
        Quote: vladcub
        And now people read a little, and think even less. I don’t need to read a book to me, but I’m thinking, I’ll look in the “box” on the Internet, read something and already have a “clever yack of a witch.”

        But doesn’t it bother you that a modern graduate of the school has knowledge, the volume of which is greater than that of any professor-professor at Moscow State University in the 19th century? The volume of knowledge itself has grown so much, it has become so diverse that sometimes there is no time for a detailed study of this knowledge, which is why this is the lot of narrow specialists. I will not praise the current education system, because I consider it incorrect, but on the other hand I am not a specialist, and I don’t communicate in the environment that is busy teaching our children at school. And therefore, a thought creeps in, or maybe everyone does not need fundamental knowledge, and it is better to leave it for a narrow circle of people who will devote their lives to science, and the rest is enough information from the "box" and the network?
  2. seti
    seti 19 June 2020 10: 47 New
    34


    And remember only the non-aggression pact between the USSR and Germany
    Well, do not forget Munich Conspiracy 38 years!
    1. Avior
      Avior 19 June 2020 11: 04 New
      -6
      Everyone is talking about secret protocols to the Covenant, and not about the main text.
      There was nothing special in the non-aggression pact itself.
      He asked me to raise from the archives the entire array of materials related to contacts between the USSR and Germany on the dramatic days of August and September 1939. As the documents testify: paragraph 2 of the Secret Protocol to the Non-aggression Treaty between Germany and the USSR of August 23, 1939 established that in the case of a territorial and political reorganization of the areas belonging to the Polish state, the border of the spheres of interests of the two countries should "approximately pass along the rivers Narew, Vistula and Sana'a. " In other words, the Soviet sphere of influence included not only the territories on which the Ukrainian and Belorussian populations lived, but also the historical Polish lands between the Bug and Vistula rivers. Not everyone now knows about this fact.
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 19 June 2020 11: 18 New
        -25
        Quote: Avior
        Everyone is talking about secret protocols to the Covenant, and not about the main text.

        I agree, rude. As far as I remember, none of the allies under their agreements with the 3rd Reich declared any territory a zone of their influence, i.e. did not divide them between himself and Hitler.
        1. svp67
          svp67 19 June 2020 11: 34 New
          21
          Quote: military_cat
          As far as I remember, none of the allies under their agreements with the 3rd Reich declared any territory a zone of their influence, i.e. did not divide them between himself and Hitler.

          Yes? And what about the partition of Czechoslovakia, Poland ... Hungary itself was not badly "welded up" with the help of Germany, and without preliminary agreements it could not have done it.
          Slovakia got its “part” during the partition of Poland, and this also could not happen just like that, especially since Slovakia simultaneously invaded Poland with Germany. That is why the Poles do not make claims to her?
          1. military_cat
            military_cat 19 June 2020 12: 22 New
            -15
            Hungary and Slovakia were “axis” satellites; no one has any questions about them; these were criminal regimes.
            1. svp67
              svp67 19 June 2020 12: 35 New
              +9
              Quote: military_cat
              Hungary and Slovakia were “axis” satellites; no one has any questions about them; these were criminal regimes.

              that's just no one claims to them ...
          2. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 13: 45 New
            -1
            Quote: svp67
            Yes? But what about the partition of Czechoslovakia, Poland ... Slovakia received "its own" during the partition of Poland

            yes, the Slovaks regained the territory chopped off by the Poles in the 1919th and 1938th. The "reconquest" of this piece with an area of ​​only 770 sq. Km and a population of 35 thousand people was a "goal of prestige." An absolute analogy with the Soviet Union, "returned" in the course of the Liberation Campaign.
        2. figwam
          figwam 19 June 2020 12: 36 New
          +5
          Quote: military_cat
          As far as I remember, none of the allies under their agreements with the 3rd Reich declared any territory a zone of their influence,

          We must blurt out such heresy.
          1. military_cat
            military_cat 19 June 2020 12: 41 New
            -7
            Please expand your thought?
            1. figwam
              figwam 19 June 2020 13: 08 New
              +2
              Quote: military_cat
              Please expand your thought?

              In whose zone of influence was Czechoslovakia? So they shared it, between themselves and Hitler)))
              1. military_cat
                military_cat 19 June 2020 13: 14 New
                -7
                What is in its zone of influence is not “divided”, but inferior.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 19 June 2020 13: 16 New
                  +2
                  Quote: military_cat
                  What is in its zone of influence is not “divided”, but inferior.

                  But what about the agreements with Italy?
                2. surok1
                  surok1 20 June 2020 12: 18 New
                  0
                  So is this an insult to the previous owners, not Poland itself?
        3. user1212
          user1212 19 June 2020 12: 44 New
          +3
          Quote: military_cat
          As far as I remember, none of the allies under their agreements with the 3rd Reich declared any territory a zone of their influence, i.e. did not divide them between himself and Hitler.

          But during WWII, documents were well signed that stipulated zones of influence after its completion laughing
        4. Olgovich
          Olgovich 19 June 2020 13: 17 New
          +2
          Quote: military_cat
          I agree, rude. As far as I remember, none of the allies, according to their agreements with the 3rd Reich, declared any territory a zone of their influence

          Hitler represented interests of Poland and Hungary in Munich and there, not some lousy zones of influence were announced, but announced GIVING foreign lands and people to the invaders.

          Hitler Poles in Munich:
          “You know, it was hard for us to defend your interests in Munich. But we did it!”


          And yes, the spheres of influence were, are and will be
      2. Albert1988
        Albert1988 19 June 2020 11: 25 New
        0
        This is if the willows prove that the allegedly presented text of the "secret protocols" is genuine ...
        1. military_cat
          military_cat 19 June 2020 11: 26 New
          -9
          Quote: Albert1988
          This is if the willows prove that the allegedly presented text of the "secret protocols" is genuine ...
          Putin does not deny this, for example.
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 19 June 2020 11: 29 New
            +1
            Quote: military_cat
            Putin does not deny this, for example.

            Putin is a historian? He personally conducted research on this subject? Putin for you the highest authority in all areas? For me, for example, in matters of history - Putin does not have authority at all, compared with someone like Dyukov or Isaev, and what Putin once said about my native field - genetics, you can grab hold of your head ...

            Moreover, do you know where the text of these "secret protocols" first came from?
            1. military_cat
              military_cat 19 June 2020 11: 38 New
              -4
              It is not required to be a historian so that, possessing the highest powers in the country and access to any archives, any state secret and any people involved in it, to receive an answer to the direct question "are the documents genuine, yes / no."

              The fact that Putin does not resort to the argument of falsification of secret protocols (although such an argument would be extremely convenient for the position he advocates) means that none of the competent people made it clear to him that this argument would have led to a little more serious discussion.
              1. Albert1988
                Albert1988 19 June 2020 11: 43 New
                +2
                Quote: military_cat
                It is not required to be a historian so that, possessing the highest powers in the country and access to any archives, any state secret and any people involved in it, to receive an answer to the direct question "are the documents genuine, yes / no."

                No, it’s required, because if you don’t have competence, then you rely only on the opinions of various “advisers”, but who these people are is a big question! If you consider that some inadequacies have already been sung about him, he’s not sure about his awareness of historical events ...
                Quote: military_cat
                The fact that Putin does not resort to the argument of falsification of secret protocols (although such an argument would be extremely convenient for the position he advocates) means that none of the competent people made it clear to him that this argument would have led to a little more serious discussion.

                One big thing is BUT - if competent people did not give him such information, this does not mean that competent people do not have it, this may mean that they were not consulted with competent ones ...

                Katyn’s unconditional recognition, the absence of doubts about the authenticity of the publicly available version of the "secret protocols" is just a sign that we are guided by political motives in these matters without paying attention to the arguments of historians!
                1. military_cat
                  military_cat 19 June 2020 12: 14 New
                  -5
                  Do you think Putin would not like confirmation that the secret protocols are fake? As soon as he tackled this topic altogether, and with his very obvious partiality in an attempt to "protect historical memory," you think he did not make even the least effort to find out if there is a chance that the secret protocols are fake?
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 19 June 2020 12: 22 New
                    +6
                    Quote: military_cat
                    Do you think Putin would not like confirmation that the secret protocols are fake?

                    False confirmation of their falsity will be much more harmful from a political point of view than simply their controversial status! Putin is a politician, not a historian! Serious historians, by the way, are very skeptical about the text of these protocols and do not cite it in their works, referring only to the pact itself, sometimes "secret protocols" are cited with reservations such as "if you treat them like an original document ..." and t .d.
                    Quote: military_cat
                    Do you think he made at least minimal effort to find out if there is a chance that the secret protocols are fake?

                    Can you say exactly what Putin has in mind? I repeat - with him we unconditionally recognized Katyn! For political reasons only for the sake of relations with Poland! However, for this event, the experts have questions not just the carriage, but the whole train! There are German bullets, and twine is also German, and shooting in clothes, etc. And under Putin, they agreed to recognize this event, which leaves a host of questions, none of which have been removed!
                    After that, will you unequivocally judge Putin’s position on such issues?
                    1. military_cat
                      military_cat 19 June 2020 12: 39 New
                      -4
                      Quote: Albert1988
                      False confirmation of their falsity will be much more harmful from a political point of view than simply their controversial status!

                      Confirmation for a journalistic article is not required. Enough of a slurred wording that you can’t get to the bottom of. Level wording "authenticity of secret protocols raises questions"You can’t forbid to call and have questions, right? Putin, if that, slurred language is not at all embarrassed, in particular, he says" there is no evidence that there were no secret protocols with other countries, "it's just some hell. But here in the matter of these specific secret protocols Putin is beginning to be shy even of slurred language.

                      Quote: Albert1988
                      Can you say exactly what Putin has in mind?
                      I can quite reliably judge that on Putin’s mind about “preserving historical memory” and “countering the falsification of history”, he has already demonstrated this many times. If he is ready to admit some obviously black spot, then it does not seem impossible for him to recognize it under the weight of available evidence (and more is available to him than any other citizen of the Russian Federation).
                    2. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 19 June 2020 12: 49 New
                      +2
                      Quote: military_cat
                      Confirmation for a journalistic article is not required.

                      That is precisely why journalistic articles can be easily wiped off, having previously been blotted out in them!
                      Quote: military_cat
                      It is impossible to forbid to cause and have questions, right?

                      And what's the difference that this wording is not? If the article is journalistic, as you said?
                      Quote: military_cat
                      I can quite reliably judge what is on Putin’s mind about “preserving historical memory” and “countering the falsification of history”

                      Ooh, dear, you can’t, because in politics - to the public one thing, on the sidelines - completely different, while everything can change depending on the political situation! It’s not for nothing that you brought the matter with Katyn - there are a lot more questions there than to the protocols, but they were recognized at once - for the sake of a momentary situation, which did not materialize!
                  2. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 16: 06 New
                    -3
                    I suppose Comrade Putin made an attempt to take our scrapie to the international level))) I read an article in NI now - populist scribble, nothing new, what kind of archives? This article, which undoubtedly today and tomorrow Channel One and Vesti FM will be called a great revelation, will require inclusion in history textbooks and memorized in schools, would still be in the form of an interview. Another interpretation, nothing more. Putin’s authorship, apparently, should add weight to it and transfer it to the category of imperishable type of Mao quotation-book from Chinese comrades - there is also a set of platitudes.
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 19 June 2020 12: 53 New
              +5
              Quote: military_cat
              It is not required to be a historian so that, possessing the highest powers in the country and access to any archives, any state secret and any people involved in it, to receive an answer to the direct question "are the documents genuine, yes / no."

              I would beware of believing everything that is being presented to us as “historical documents” from the archive, and not because the late Ilyukhin directly indicated that in the early nineties many historical fakes were made that were thrown into the media or leaked abroad, as for example, the Mitrokhin archive.
              Without any espionage, I only note that the art of forging documents, including old ones, is mastered by all the world's special services, and even more so in the era of paper media of the last century, it was at the highest level. Such documents are needed to legalize agents, which is why sometimes fakes were better made than the originals - and this happened. So with the "secret protocol", the original of which no one saw in Soviet times, and suddenly he came up "by accident", one must also be careful.
              1. Albert1988
                Albert1988 19 June 2020 13: 13 New
                +1
                Quote: ccsr
                So with the "secret protocol", the original of which no one saw in Soviet times, and suddenly he came up "by accident", one must also be careful.

                The fact is that for the first time these documents surfaced at the Nuremberg trials - they were provided by some Nazi lawyers, the text completely repeats the surfaced in the 90s in “our archives,” with the only difference being that it was a microfilm in Nurnberg, and in our case printed documents. But - the text there is one-on-one, the same mistakes - are repeated several times by "both sides", Finland is called the "Baltic country", etc.
                What is interesting - at the Nuremberg trials these "protocols" were not accepted by the court as evidence in view of the extreme doubtfulness of their origin - they were a surprise, including for the American and British sides))))
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 19 June 2020 15: 00 New
            +2
            “with someone like Dyukov or Isaev” it’s now fashionable not to recognize official historians, but to read alternative authors, and they are also different. For example: Zadornov- satirist or Zadornov historian two big differences. Or the "patriotic" historian Miltyukhov, most Soviet and modern Russian historians, to put it mildly, doubt that the NKVD shot all the Poles, and Miltyukhov believes that L.P. Beria personally shot. “Suvorov” is sure that Stalin was going to attack Germany and Miltyukhov is sure of this.
            It seems that he does not believe in "secret protocols", I will believe in these protocols twice, but in the fact that Stalin and his club creep up on the "white and fluffy" Hitler. Fire
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 19 June 2020 15: 10 New
              0
              Quote: vladcub
              now it’s fashionable not to recognize official historians, but to read alternative authors

              Well, as one professor friend said, “alternative authors for alternative-minded people,” especially the late Zadornov ...
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 19 June 2020 17: 08 New
                +2
                They definitely have such shots in their course, and Tartary and prch "scientific"
      3. Avior
        Avior 19 June 2020 11: 28 New
        -4
        Putin quoted him in an article. I have a quote from his article.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 19 June 2020 11: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: Avior
          Putin quoted him in an article. I have a quote from his article.

          So what? Putin also spoke about a certain “genetic weapon” when any serious geneticist, wake him at night, will justify why this is impossible ...
          1. Avior
            Avior 20 June 2020 00: 14 New
            -3
            That this is a quote from Putin.
            If you have something disproving or the opposite, give a link, I'm interested
      4. The comment was deleted.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 19 June 2020 11: 45 New
          -2
          Quote: RMT
          Man, this is a fragment from the article that we are discussing! Do you require evidence from the author?

          It is possible from him, if you quote something, you must be either 100% sure, or note that the authenticity of the source can be doubtful. However, some experts still doubt the authenticity of the "Words about Igor's Regiment", claiming that it was a fake of either the 18th or 19th century ...
  3. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 19 June 2020 11: 15 New
    +2
    So our European "partners" have a very selective memory.
    I remember there, I don’t remember, and there, in general, the herring was wrapped. (Ts.)

    And the fact that it was the Munich agreement that unleashed a world war in Europe, they do not spare. For the Fuhrer was directly pushed to the East.
    1. Avior
      Avior 20 June 2020 00: 18 New
      -4
      Putin writes about the imperfection of the Versailles Treaty.
      The Munich Agreement is just an attempt to fix it, it was foreseen
  4. syndicalist
    syndicalist 19 June 2020 11: 23 New
    -7
    There is still a difference. None of these agreements carried out the division of Europe with Hitler. Including the Munich conspiracy. None of the participants in the "conspiracy", except Germany, received an inch of Czechoslovakia.
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 19 June 2020 11: 26 New
      0
      Quote: syndicalist
      There is still a difference.

      Ogh, yes - give away someone else’s land, just don’t touch ours, there’s a very "big" difference ...
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 19 June 2020 11: 30 New
        -4
        Quote: Albert1988
        Ogh, yes - give away someone else’s land, just don’t touch ours, there’s a very "big" difference ...
        This is the difference between attack and defense.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 19 June 2020 11: 32 New
          +3
          Quote: military_cat
          This is the difference between attack and defense.

          No - no difference! There is a criminal conspiracy to organize the invasion of one country into another ... The customer and the killer are judged the same ...
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 19 June 2020 11: 35 New
      +6
      But Poland (Vassal of London) received a decent piece of Czechoslovakia ...


      Poles occupy Czech Tesin in October 1938 ..
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 19 June 2020 11: 36 New
        +6
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        But Poland (Vassal of London) received a decent piece of Czechoslovakia ...

        By the way - an important point - Poland rested against the horn, not allowing any Soviet assistance to Czechoslovakia, as it had its own interest - to overcome the land ...
        As a result, flew as it deserves!
      2. New
        New Year day 19 June 2020 12: 35 New
        +9
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Poles occupy Czech Tesin in October 1938 ..

        Who I wanted, all hapanuli stranitsa stranger
      3. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 15: 30 New
        -4
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        decent piece of Czechoslovakia ...


        So what? In interbellum, the borders were unstatic and controversial, which is natural after the disaster of 1914-1918. How were the borders between the fragments of Austria-Hungary drawn? Do you know? And how did Masaryk create the independent Czechoslovakia? Teshin? It was a conflict frozen for 20 years. In dynamics it is necessary to consider, not to think in cliches. One Versailles misunderstanding, using a convenient moment, chopped off a piece of 2 thousand square kilometers from another misunderstanding. And then 710 sq. Km were squeezed out of this "chopped off" man ..... well, both Zap.Ukraine and Zap.RB were catching up - the misunderstandings were patient. And interessanty thoughtfully declared "returning yours!"
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 19 June 2020 17: 23 New
          +2
          Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
          In dynamics it is necessary to consider, not to think in cliches.

          Then you dynamically acknowledge that Stalin did everything right by returning the lands to us before and after the Great Patriotic War, and I will applaud you while standing. Only in the West they are unlikely to understand you - they have memory lapses and their own history, and what we consider to be a fact, they prefer not to notice it. And then what will we stop when we enter into a polemic with them as a result of the war?
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 17: 54 New
            -6
            Quote: ccsr
            that Stalin did everything right, returning the land to us


            and why not return, since such a solitaire has developed? In a jar of spiders, you have to be either a spider or eaten. Return, take revenge for the shameful campaign of twenty years ago. Moreover, to sign the Treaty of Friendship and Border with the Reich and declare in it a claim to Lithuania. Just do not breathe gasp about the political genius of Comrade Stalin and the diplomatic virtuosity of Comrade Molotov. No wisdom and foresight - only tactics.

            Quote: ccsr
            only in the West they are unlikely to understand you - they have memory lapses and their own history

            So what? Is it wrong with us? There is a presumption of the winner - to interpret everything in their favor. They are in our own, we in our own. There will be no consensus. So we will be thrown over the fence with our interpretations of WWII.
            Quote: ccsr
            when we enter into polemics with them as a result of the war

            and on what results? The Yalta world order has long sunk into oblivion, wake up. The USSR lost the Cold War and died, and you are trying to impose a polemic on someone about the previous war.
            Each of the three wars — WWI, WWII, and HV — had a “Polish question” among others. And, by the way, the current antics of Poland and its attempts to take one of the leading positions in Europe is also a “summons." They are constantly resuscitating everyone in Europe with the puzzled problem of the start of WWII and "who unleashed."
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 20 June 2020 09: 47 New
              +1
              Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
              Just do not breathe gasp about the political genius of Comrade Stalin and the diplomatic virtuosity of Comrade Molotov. No wisdom and foresight - only tactics.

              It’s not necessary to evaluate them so, especially taking into account such “geniuses” as Gorbachev, Shevarnadze and Kozyrev. These prohindhei didn’t even think tactically - they simply traded the country.
              Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
              There will be no consensus.

              And I’m talking about the same, that’s why I think that all calls to the West will be fruitless.
              Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
              The Yalta world order has long sunk into oblivion, wake up.

              I did not say the opposite - it seemed to you.
              Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
              The USSR lost the Cold War and died, and you are trying to impose a polemic on someone about the previous war.

              Why do you think so? I’m just worried that our people would know the true truth about the war, and some even thoughtlessly distort it even in this forum.
              Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
              They are constantly resuscitating everyone in Europe with the weakened problem of the start of WWII and "who unleashed."

              That's why they need to be told right away - it’s you bastards who raised Hitler, who gave you a blood bath, and Stalin and the USSR have nothing to do with it. What is wrong here?
              1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 11: 54 New
                -5
                Quote: ccsr
                I believe that all calls for the West will be fruitless.

                Quote: ccsr
                That's why they need to be told right away - it’s you bastards who raised Hitler

                it's nice to consider attempts fruitless, but stubbornly continue to pester the West with its version of "who is to blame." Once again, this Putin article is exclusively for the domestic consumer.
                Quote: ccsr
                No need to go so evaluate them

                Well, I'm sorry if I touched the feelings of the Stalinist, but the clumsiness of Soviet diplomacy on the eve of the war, in my opinion, is obvious. And by no means carries traces of genius. And from "his", depressed as a result of the Liberation Campaign, Comrade Stalin suddenly refused in the 41st, exchanging territories for co-opting with the recent eventual opponent No. 1 - Britain. In fact, the Munich Agreement and the Covenant MR are equivalent acts giving away European pawns to be eaten.
                Quote: ccsr
                and Stalin and the USSR have nothing to do with it

                Well, yes, of course. It is time to admit that the methods of the USSR in 1939-1940 were expansionist and aggressive - this is not to reproach the leadership. This is the objective and only possible modus operandi for a country whose death everyone wanted.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 20 June 2020 16: 52 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                  Once again, this Putin article is exclusively for the domestic consumer.

                  And for this, it was placed in a foreign publication - isn’t it yourself funny?
                  Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                  In fact, the Munich Agreement and the Covenant MR are equivalent acts giving away European pawns to be eaten.

                  You are lying unscrupulously - the Munich Agreement merged Hitler Czechoslovakia, which was not even invited for discussion, and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact did not give consent to the defeat of Poland, because we did not have an agreement with it by which we would be obligated to defend it. So why the hell were we supposed to come to the defense of Poland without an agreement on this, you will be able to clearly explain how, especially since we did not send troops before September 17?
                  Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                  This is the objective and only possible modus operandi for a country whose death everyone wanted.

                  So I say that we need to erect a monument to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for a long time, as the most successful political document of the pre-war period.
                  1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 17: 15 New
                    -4
                    Quote: ccsr
                    isn’t it funny?

                    Extremely funny. Very original PR. But NI, of course, benefits.
                    Quote: ccsr
                    because we didn’t have an agreement with her under which we would be obligated to protect her.

                    But did we undertake to protect anyone? Or, are you talking about a contract with the Czechs? So there was a small reservation about France.
                    Quote: ccsr
                    So what the hell were we supposed to defend Poland with

                    I don’t know what the hell. I did not speak about it.
                  2. ccsr
                    ccsr 20 June 2020 17: 20 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    But did we undertake to protect anyone?

                    We suggested that some European countries do this back in 1938, and since the spring of 1939, negotiations have been ongoing with France and England to conclude a treaty to curb Hitler. So we had intentions, but no one wanted to realize them.
                  3. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 23: 59 New
                    -3
                    Quote: ccsr
                    We suggested that some European countries do this back in 1938

                    'We' only offered to convene a conference behind Germany. The britishness of the British did not allow them to consider Stalin equal to themselves and sit at the same negotiating table, which in one way or another should concern the distribution of spheres of influence in Europe among guarantors. And the position of England is quite logical - the background of all these Soviet diplomatic attempts in March 38th was, you know, the war in Spain. An interesting collision - one of those who got dirty in a foreign civil war offers to stand in solidarity against another similar "voluntary assistant". Funny right?
                  4. ccsr
                    ccsr 21 June 2020 09: 49 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    And the position of England is quite logical - the background of all these Soviet diplomatic attempts in March 38th was, you know, the war in Spain.

                    Do not exaggerate the role of military specialists of the USSR in the war in Spain, as there were very few of them against the background of the regular troops of Germany and Italy, helping Franco.
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    An interesting collision - one of those who got soiled in a foreign civil war offers to stand in solidarity against another similar "voluntary assistant". Funny right?

                    So in that war, “voluntary assistants” from the USA and Europe fought on the Republican side, and it’s now difficult to figure out who their goals were. You don’t find it funny how the Western armies participated in the Civil War in Russia, so why should we sprinkle ashes on our heads for a couple of thousand (up to three from various sources) volunteers who fought in Spain? Especially since we were discussing agreements with those who had recently destroyed our people - you don’t remember about it?
                  5. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 21 June 2020 10: 21 New
                    -3
                    Quote: ccsr
                    Do not exaggerate the role of military specialists of the USSR in the war in Spain

                    over there. Usually passionate patriots, referring to the matter of the USSR’s participation in the Great War in Spain, with foam at the mouth extol this role to heaven) Okay, that’s not the point. Inter-brigade participants did not export the country's gold reserves and did not sell weapons. And it's not about them at all. Spain demonstrated that the Bolsheviks did not abandon the idea of ​​red expansion - this fact very worried the titans of the Old World. But these impotents, with their gesheft with Hitler, did not understand until September 1 of the 39th that a rabid dog could not be reassured by merely scratching their ears.
                  6. ccsr
                    ccsr 21 June 2020 10: 54 New
                    0
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Usually passionate patriots, refer to the matter of the participation of the USSR in the Greek war in Spain, with foam at the mouth they extol this role to heaven)

                    I evaluate this purely from a military point of view.
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    And it's not about them at all. Spain demonstrated that the Bolsheviks did not abandon the idea of ​​red expansion - this fact very worried the titans of the Old World.

                    The Spanish government appealed to us - there was no need for fraud, just like the fact that we were also worried that Western countries could also invade us without any invitation, as was the case with our Civil.
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    But these impotent people, with their gesheft and Hitler, did not understand until September 1 of the 39th that a rabid dog could not be reassured simply by scratching their ears.

                    I can’t argue with this - the West has miscalculated greatly, although I suspect that this was precisely what those who wanted the United States to become the dominant state of the world, supplanting Great Britain, counted on it.
                  7. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 21 June 2020 13: 55 New
                    -3
                    Quote: ccsr
                    The Spanish government turned to us - no fraud,

                    I’m not juggling anything, I’m just saying that you don’t need to spread your head and drag American and other internationalist volunteers here. It is one thing to come voluntarily to Spain from France, Germany, Poland, England, the United States to defend the red and anarchist chimeras of different versions, and quite another is the participation, or rather, the intervention of a foreign state. Which, incidentally, was part of the non-intervention committee, like Germany. I am quite aware of the epic of the export of gold reserves. You must admit that this is a much more significant participation in a foreign war than the scramble of the inter-brigade team on the hills of Cordoba.
                  8. ccsr
                    ccsr 21 June 2020 17: 22 New
                    0
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    I’m not juggling anything, I’m just saying that you don’t need to spread your head and drag American and other internationalist volunteers here.

                    There were at least ten times more than Soviet ones:
                    In total, during the civil war in Spain, about 30 thousand foreigners visited the ranks of international brigades

                    So do not close your eyes to this, as well as to the fact that many went there fulfilling the tasks of their governments.
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    I am quite aware of the epic of the export of gold reserves.

                    And what of it? I also know that it partially went to pay for weapons and the maintenance of Spanish children in the USSR. What claims can be on him to Stalin?
                    Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                    You must admit that this is a much more significant participation in a foreign war than the scramble of the inter-brigade team on the hills of Cordoba.

                    I do not presume to judge, because the result is disappointing. And in my opinion, it didn’t make sense for us to spend a lot of money on supporting the Spanish government, because we ourselves were on the verge of war, and it would be better to spend them on re-equipping our army. But it’s easy to argue now, and then they thought differently.
                  9. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 21 June 2020 18: 26 New
                    -5
                    Quote: ccsr
                    What claims can be on him to Stalin?

                    Do I have a complaint to Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler or Franco ??
                    Quote: ccsr
                    There were at least ten times more than Soviet ones:

                    and to hell with him, even a hundred, I don’t even talk about them, how much to repeat?
  • user1212
    user1212 19 June 2020 12: 46 New
    +2
    Quote: syndicalist
    None of these agreements carried out the division of Europe with Hitler

    Again. The Munich agreement separated part of Czechoslovakia (European countries) and handed it over to Hitler, in exchange for "peace." Indeed, Hitler’s violation of the sphere of influence of Great Britain (attack on Poland) became the reason for the outbreak of the Second World War by Great Britain. This is precisely the division of Europe with Hitler
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 19 June 2020 13: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: user1212
      This is precisely the division of Europe with Hitler

      More about the spheres of influence - the Britons openly in Munich told the Germans - "take away at least all of Czechoslovakia, do not touch Belgium anymore - this is our area of ​​interest"
  • Molox
    Molox 19 June 2020 16: 47 New
    +1
    Quote: seti


    And remember only the non-aggression pact between the USSR and Germany
    Well, do not forget Munich Conspiracy 38 years!

    Thank you for the data .. About this, the "world media" are usually silent ... And so they are trying to rewrite the story upside down .. The thief's hat is on.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • K-612-O
    K-612-O 19 June 2020 10: 49 New
    -2
    Actually we are talking about WWII. And it turns out that we and the Japanese fleet worked out the Italian army too, in North Africa we waved with Rommel. And by the way, the Yugoslav and Greek partisans, who really resisted and controlled part of their territory, also in the furnace, did not have them.
    We fought with Europe and the Reich, as let the British in light mode, but WWII was not limited to the war of the USSR and the Reich.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2020 10: 58 New
      +8
      Quote: K-612-O
      s and the Japanese fleet worked

      we worked out the Kwantung army
      Quote: K-612-O
      in North Africa with Rommel waved

      Allied casualties:
      44615 killed
      209606 wounded, missing and captured
      losses from the axis:
      33988 killed
      546721 wounded, missing and captured
      losses for example in one battle of Stalingrad ~ 1 million on each side
      1. K-612-O
        K-612-O 19 June 2020 11: 04 New
        -1
        I'm not talking about the scale, but WWII and WWII are two different things and you don’t have to dump everything in one mess.
        And who fought with Japan before 45? Of course, we also contributed there. But the Americans still fought, and for them it is War.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2020 11: 11 New
          +7
          Quote: K-612-O
          but WWII and WWII

          WWII is part of WWII with most of it
          1. K-612-O
            K-612-O 19 June 2020 11: 14 New
            0
            Nobody argues with this. But history is also a science and interfere with events and facts in one heap and sculpt do not understand that, do not
      2. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 16: 51 New
        -6
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        losses for example in one battle of Stalingrad

        jars when, as an argument, they begin to measure graves. It’s like a dispute between cemetery guards who have a prestigious cemetery.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2020 20: 46 New
          0
          but no one is measured by graves and if you don’t understand this, then these are your problems
          I gave the figures to compare the volumes of troops in different theater
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 20: 53 New
            -9
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            troop volumes


            for "troop volumes" (funny term), there are other units of measurement other than the number of fallen - not in the know? But commercials can be measured by prisoners. But then the problem - in Tunisia, the Allies took three times more prisoners than the Red Army near Stalingrad - and what does this mean something?
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2020 22: 44 New
              0
              Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
              But then the problem - in Tunisia, the Allies took three times more prisoners than the Red Army near Stalingrad - and what does this mean something?

              a problem in your knowledge more how losses are healed not only by prisoners
              so for information the TOTAL number of troops on both sides in a Tunisian company less than seven Germans died under Stalingrad
              there the Germans lost about 900 thousand dead, and a total of 850 participated in the Tunisian company
              1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 22: 49 New
                -10
                Well, they would start their comparative analyzes with the number of drugs, BT, Air Force, etc.
                And do not about "knowledge." You, sorry, do not shine.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 20 June 2020 06: 09 New
                  -3
                  so give me examples of my mistakes while you screwed up the data
                  1. Dr. Frankenstucker
                    Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 11: 02 New
                    -6
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    it's you screwed up with data

                    Messed up with data? Show me where.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 20 June 2020 14: 58 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                      Show me where.

                      I probably missed something, do not specify when we drank broodershaft
                      Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                      Messed up with data? Show me where.

                      I apologize for the inaccurate wording you screwed up not with the data but stupidly distorted the conclusions
                    2. Dr. Frankenstucker
                      Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 15: 59 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      do not specify when we drank broodershaft

                      I specify - never.
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      and stupidly perverted conclusions

                      You see, I did not dispute the conclusions about the difference in the scale of the theater of war between S. Afrika and the Eastern Front - at least that would be stupid. The meaning of my remark was different. For me, the dimensions of the theater of operations mentioned above are the lengths of the fronts, the concentration of troops, and the like. For you - the number of crosses and funerals. That's all. Why this pick?
                    3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 20 June 2020 20: 36 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
                      For you - the number of crosses and funerals. That's all. Why this pick?
                      the main thing is not the length of the front, but how many enemies are destroyed
                    4. Dr. Frankenstucker
                      Dr. Frankenstucker 20 June 2020 22: 56 New
                      -2
                      Yes, as you say. I do not impose my point of view. We remain in our opinion.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 19 June 2020 11: 16 New
    0
    Yes, do not care for World War II! For us it was the Great Patriotic War! If you like, Victory Day is Independence Day.
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 19 June 2020 11: 17 New
      +2
      So I'm talking about what I'm trying to convey. For us, Victory Day is precisely May 9, not 3.09
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 19 June 2020 11: 48 New
      0
      Quote: Gardamir
      For us it was the Great Patriotic War!


      And it was at the beginning, I can’t lie,
      The tugboats were silent on the other side.
      On that bank, on that bank
      On the shore where we were ...
      And we left our cities
      And in them remained the soul forever ...
      And yet, and yet,
      And yet we won
      And yet, and yet,
      And yet we won!
      Earflaps blackened on crimson snow,
      And his lips went numb on the other side.
      On that shore, on that shore
      On the shore where we were ...
      Behind each back was its Stalingrad
      And in frozen trenches - not a step back
      And yet, and yet,
      And yet we won
      And yet, and yet,
      And yet we won!
      And the salt faded from the soldiers' shirts.
      That salt of return is like honey on my lips
      On that shore, on that shore
      On the shore where we were ...
      And no matter how many of us are alive,
      Alive the voice of dead friends fighting!
      And yet, and yet,
      And yet we won
      And yet, and yet,
      And yet we won!
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  • Woodman
    Woodman 19 June 2020 10: 54 New
    13
    Quote: BecmepH
    The word "contribution" distorted me ..

    There are still such phrases:
    The political map of the planet has changed. No Soviet Union, which won a grandiose, crushing victory over Nazism, saved the whole world.

    It is important to convey to the descendants the memory that the victory over Nazism was won primarily by the Soviet people, that in this heroic struggle - at the front and in the rear, shoulder to shoulder - were representatives of all republics of the Soviet Union.

    And what distorted you in the original is:
    The Soviet Union, the Red Army, made the main, decisive contribution to the rout of Nazism — no matter what they try to prove. Heroes who fought to the end surrounded by Bialystok and Mogilev, Uman and Kiev, Vyazma and Kharkov. They went on the attack near Moscow and Stalingrad, Sevastopol and Odessa, Kursk and Smolensk. They liberated Warsaw, Belgrade, Vienna and Prague. They stormed Königsberg and Berlin.
  • Civil
    Civil 19 June 2020 11: 20 New
    -7
    This article is not for the Russian public, take it easy. For us there are Soloviev. laughing
    1. Malyuta
      Malyuta 19 June 2020 11: 30 New
      -1
      Quote: Civil
      This article is not for the Russian public, take it easy. For us there are Soloviev.

      Colleague hi , it seemed to me the other way around, having published an article in a third-rate American newspaper, she immediately got to the Kremlin’s website and the Russian newspaper, and it was Solovyov Shapiro who would report on the genius of “genius” and patriotism of “patriot”.
      PR in front of the vote.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 20 June 2020 17: 27 New
        +3
        Quote: Malyuta
        PR in front of the vote.

        "This is small, Khobotov" (c) - for this it was not necessary to post such an article on a foreign resource, but it was easier to invite the famous American director Oliver Stone, who shot the film about Putin, to interview him about the Second World War and the role of the USSR , and then post it to the media and the network.
        Don’t think that our PR specialists are made with your finger, there are top-class pros among them, and they correctly calculated everything on the eve of the Victory Day parade on June 24th.
        1. Malyuta
          Malyuta 21 June 2020 00: 14 New
          +5
          Quote: ccsr
          Don’t think that our PR specialists are made with your finger, there are top-class pros among them, and they correctly calculated everything on the eve of the Victory Day parade on June 24th.

          I agree, but they play a trial there, it’s not interesting there, but here we start Soviet films and “Vova with us”, “Vova won”, “let a tear go”, “told about sadness”, “he twitched his eyebrows”, and in general the impression that he painted on the walls of the “wooden Reigstag”, which he took with the puck last year ... and at this place they erected a monument with frescoes of Kinder Surprise, valy glass and a reindeer breeder ... no longer funny ...
  • Vend
    Vend 19 June 2020 12: 20 New
    +2
    Quote: BecmepH
    Putin noted the contribution of the USSR to the defeat of Nazi Germany.
    The word "contribution" twisted me ... WE WON! And if not for our successes, then contributions there were no other countries ...
    Apparently you were just looking for something to cling to in this article))) the main information passed you by laughing
  • vargo
    vargo 19 June 2020 12: 37 New
    +2
    I think the article is written so as not to overload the blame on someone and at the same time not to pull the blanket over itself, forming an equal feeling of victory and guilt. Perhaps this was specially presented so that in the negotiations on preserving memory and facts without lying, everyone had a sense of equality. If we negotiate from the position of the guilty and the main ones in the victory, it will be difficult to reach a compromise. An article is more a message than just an article.
  • iouris
    iouris 19 June 2020 14: 25 New
    -1
    So after all, the magazine is called "National Interests (USA)."
    1. iouris
      iouris 19 June 2020 20: 08 New
      0
      It is not said about the role of Japan and China, while Japan is an important adversary, China, it seems, is an important ally who suffered enormous losses from the Japanese, and WWII began and ended in that region, which is incorrectly called "Far Eastern": Beijing - the center of the Middle Kingdom . London - Far West.
      Also I would definitely kick England for Hess. Who was assigned to write this text?
  • Babermetis
    Babermetis 19 June 2020 14: 44 New
    +2
    Quote: BecmepH
    Putin noted the contribution of the USSR to the defeat of Nazi Germany.
    The word "contribution" twisted me ... WE WON! And if not for our successes, then contributions there were no other countries ...


    I'm sure you did not even read the original article! V.V. Putin cited figures, percentages and statistics. Therefore, “contribution” as a word is quite appropriate. Moreover, the very beginning of the article and its continuation and the main conclusions regarding the Russian Federation, its present and future are based on:
    “For me and my peers, it is important that our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren understand what kind of trials and torments their ancestors went through. How, why could they survive and defeat? Where did they come from with the truly iron fortitude that surprised and delighted the whole world? Yes They defended their home, children, relatives, family, but all were united by love for the Motherland and Fatherland.This deep, personal feeling in its entirety is reflected in the very essence of our people and has become one of the defining factors in its heroic, sacrificial struggle against the Nazis . "
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 16: 23 New
    -5
    and what warps something? There was an anti-Hitler coalition, a joint victory, everyone invested in varying degrees. If Putin started the barrel organ "Victory is only ours and a draw!" - That would be pretty stupid.
  • NEXUS
    NEXUS 19 June 2020 20: 03 New
    0
    Quote: BecmepH
    And if not for our successes, then the contribution of other countries would not be ...

    That's right, but with one caveat ... you forgot about leasing, gum assistance, etc. in the first years of the war. Let's just say that, if we talk about the contribution, then we can assume that it was. Another question is that the USSR took the MAIN WEIGHT OF WAR and it was the Red Army that broke the ridge of the Third Reich.
  • zenion
    zenion 20 June 2020 13: 30 New
    0
    There is, that is, a book of the Czechoslovak counterintelligence was published, of course during the Soviet era, under the name "Crystal Vase". About how Czechoslovakia was handed over to Hitler. I read and realized that everything was thought out even when Hitler finally became the Fuhrer. If at that time it would not have been necessary for the war with the USSR, then the United States at that time would not have been. Even in the States at that time they dreamed of a dictatorship. Hitler came up with.
  • certero
    certero 21 June 2020 10: 39 New
    0
    Like the West and deny their participation?
    From the age of 43, 80% of German fighters in the west.
    We won and the Union’s significant contribution. But they won even the same
  • Pavel73
    Pavel73 19 June 2020 10: 37 New
    +3
    Little of. The Munich agreement was preceded by many documents, treaties and pacts concluded by the European powers with the German Nazis. Despite the fact that from the very beginning Hitler, without hesitation, declared the goal of the Nazis - a conquest of the east, specifically Russia. And the very dismemberment of Czechoslovakia was not so peaceful: the battle of the company of captain Pavlik. Which later died in a Nazi concentration camp.
    1. iouris
      iouris 19 June 2020 20: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: Pavel73
      And the very dismemberment of Czechoslovakia was not so peaceful: the battle of the company of captain Pavlik.

      One company! Well you give! Despite the fact that Czechoslovakia in its military and economic potential was comparable to the then Reich. The president and prime minister of Czechoslovakia are traitors. And this, by the way, had very negative consequences: the capacities of the Skoda factories (tanks, artillery, cars, etc.) and the aircraft factories of Czechoslovakia, their technological level, should be assessed as very high: at the level of the UK.
  • Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 19 June 2020 10: 38 New
    +8
    In general, everything is true! Munich conspiracy - led to the start of the war! Accordingly, the blame for the Second World War can safely be assigned to its participants - Britain, Germany, Italy and France!
    It is naive to suppose that the West will declassify its part of the archives! The fact that Poland went through - it was not for nothing that they burned ....
    1. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 19 June 2020 10: 48 New
      +7
      And the GDP writes: “The underlying causes of World War II largely stem from decisions made following the First World War. The Treaty of Versailles became a symbol of profound injustice for Germany. In fact, it was a robbery of the country, which was obliged to pay huge reparations to the Western Allies, depleting its economy The commander-in-chief of the allied forces, French Marshal F. Fauch prophetically described Versailles: “This is not peace. This is a ceasefire for twenty years. "
    2. K-612-O
      K-612-O 19 June 2020 10: 55 New
      +3
      Although, for good, the War began in China and Japan unleashed it, which was then a member of the Axis. Khalkhin-Gol was before Munich.
      But everyone somehow forgets about it. As well as about 37 million Chinese killed by the Japanese.
      1. Dr. Frankenstucker
        Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 18: 30 New
        -5
        Quote: K-612-O
        The war began in China and Japan unleashed it, which was then a member of the Axis.

        Well, not the Axis, but the Anti-Comintern Pact. The tripartite pact was issued only in the 1940th.
        Quote: K-612-O
        Khalkhin-Gol was before Munich

        actually, after. And, by the way, the Leader and Teacher rightly did not consider the conflict in the twentieth century.
        Quote: K-612-O
        But everyone somehow forgets about it. As well as about 37 million Chinese killed by the Japanese ..

        Come on, there, Comrade Xi recently mentioned that China and the USSR are the main WWII winners based on the number of victims.
        1. iouris
          iouris 19 June 2020 22: 45 New
          0
          Quote: Dr. Frankenstucker
          the war on the HC did not rightly consider war.

          And the war of Japan against China was rightly considered a war.
          Also, the creation of the puppet state of Manzhou-Go (actually the “conflict in the twentieth century” took place there), which turned into what Czechoslovakia and France were for the Germans (both the granary, the forge, and the health resort). It was that bridgehead for the attack on the Far East of the USSR, which distracted the huge forces of the Red Army.
    3. Malyuta
      Malyuta 19 June 2020 11: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Hunter 2
      It is naive to suppose that the West will declassify its part of the archives! The fact that Poland went through - it was not for nothing that they burned ....

      It is very curious why Hess was hanged in prison and with what mission he flew to Britain.
      Only about this "partners" are unlikely to tell.
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 19 June 2020 11: 07 New
        +5
        Quote: Malyuta
        It is very curious why Hess was hanged in prison

        The time for his release was drawing near, and Hess did not conceal his intention to talk about how and why he ended up in England. At least I heard that version.
        1. Pereira
          Pereira 19 June 2020 11: 16 New
          +1
          There are different versions of what he could say. Including versions that do not match the focus of this site.
          But obviously, they could not allow him. The whole story of his conclusion speaks about this.
          The British hoped that he would die from old age. But the old man was surprisingly strong and was clearly preparing an information bomb.
          I couldn’t. It's a pity.
        2. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 23: 04 New
          -6
          Quote: Lesovik
          At least I heard that version.


          grandiose. And from whom did you hear? From the guard of Spandau in the kitchen to a glass of rowan on cognac and dumplings?
      2. Avior
        Avior 19 June 2020 11: 31 New
        +3
        Hess actually left a note for his wife before hanging himself
        1. Malyuta
          Malyuta 19 June 2020 11: 34 New
          -6
          Quote: Avior
          Hess actually left a note for his wife before hanging himself

          I do not believe that the person served so much and took and hanged himself before going out.
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 19 June 2020 11: 42 New
            -5
            Hanged himself - an intolerant word. Now it is customary to say - it is self-insulated.
            1. Malyuta
              Malyuta 19 June 2020 11: 53 New
              -12
              Quote: Pereira
              Hanged himself - an intolerant word. Now it is customary to say - it is self-insulated.

              ours would be so "self-insulated", that would be a holiday.
              1. Pereira
                Pereira 19 June 2020 11: 55 New
                -6
                And lose the key to the door.
          2. Avior
            Avior 19 June 2020 17: 26 New
            +3
            The situation is obvious, there is a suicide note, one can argue about the reasons, but the fact of suicide does not cause the slightest doubt
            1. Malyuta
              Malyuta 19 June 2020 17: 35 New
              -4
              Quote: Avior
              but the fact of suicide does not cause the slightest doubt

              Colleague, a very controversial statement in my opinion. I remember in the 91st they also wrote suicide notes, and then fell from the windows, although they could well use premium weapons with a 100% guarantee.
              A simple question, what could make a deep old man hang himself on a trouser belt, where did this belt come from and how does it look technically?
              Threat. If possible, throw a link to the letter. hi
              1. Avior
                Avior 19 June 2020 17: 56 New
                +2
                Who knows what he had in his head after so many years of imprisonment
                He hung himself on an electric extension cord.

            2. Dr. Frankenstucker
              Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 23: 07 New
              -6
              Quote: Avior
              the fact of suicide does not cause the slightest doubt


              do not deprive crypto-historians of chewing gum. Sorry for the black pun - the hanged R.G. hung up an intrigue for them.
              Let them fantasize.
          3. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 23: 20 New
            -4
            Quote: Malyuta
            I don't believe

            what a pity ... I guess you are one of those to whom
            Quote: Malyuta
            disbelieve
            Hitler's suicide? )))
            And yet Himmler’s double and the grandson of some guaraní, who claims that Bormann was the owner of a gas station near Asuncion .... laughing
    4. The comment was deleted.
      1. sergey999999
        sergey999999 19 June 2020 11: 13 New
        0
        [quote] [/ quote] "Variety" is unacceptable to history and truth. Diversity is a variation of lies.
    5. New
      New Year day 19 June 2020 12: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Hunter 2
      It is naive to suppose that the West will declassify its part of the archives!

      and Russia disclosed its archives? Putin’s call to declassify is good, but there’s a deal. Where is it? Their discovery has just begun. I believe that in all the archives there is something that will remain there
      1. nikon7717
        nikon7717 19 June 2020 21: 10 New
        +1
        and Russia disclosed its archives?

        Yes, you are Silver from citizens like “Heidi Likely,” of those who first cook up the accusation to please your interests, and then they say “prove that you are not a camel” ...
        For us, the fact of victory is unshakable. The victory was won by the USSR. This fact of historical memory and victory will be included in the constitution of the Russian Federation. We will have the opportunity of additional requirements for the authorities to protect our memory and Victory.
        1. New
          New Year day 20 June 2020 10: 41 New
          +2
          Quote: nikon7717
          For us, the fact of victory is unshakable. The victory was won by the USSR. This fact of historical memory and victory will be included in the constitution of the Russian Federation. We will have the opportunity of additional requirements for the authorities to protect our memory and Victory.

          what prevented before? Who prevented Mannerheim from opening the guard of honor and flowers to Ivanov and the Medina board? Was there a shortage of amendments?

          Do you need corrections? To Ivanov? To the head of the ADMINISTRATION OF THE PRESIDENT? Medinsky? The Minister of Culture then and the Assistant to the President now?
          Who forbade the mausoleum and Stalin? And without Stalin, there would have been no Victory. And without the CPSU (b) there would be no!
          Bees versus honey?
          You are a historical dodger
          1. nikon7717
            nikon7717 20 June 2020 13: 01 New
            -2
            You are a historical dodger

            In St. Petersburg, a board was installed in memory of what event?
            In memory of the WWII, in memory of the revolutions of 1917, the split of society. As a sign of edification and reconciliation. Based on the fact that he was also a Russian officer, he served in the Russian army.
            "Karl Gustav Emil Mannerheim (1867-1951) - Finnish military leader, politician and statesman, marshal. From 1890 to 1917 he served in the Russian army, participated in the Russian-Japanese and World War I. In 1918-1919 he was regent of Finland. "
            We give the facts. And not bare accusations. You are back in ... hi
            1. New
              New Year day 20 June 2020 13: 27 New
              +2
              Quote: nikon7717
              In St. Petersburg, a board was installed in memory of what event?

              ask you from St. Petersburg! At the same time, and see their reaction! The important thing is, whatever the past, he participated in the Great Patriotic War on the side of Hitler and participated in the blockade of Leningrad.
              So you and Vlasov rehabilitate for his past and thanks to Stalin
              1. nikon7717
                nikon7717 20 June 2020 19: 21 New
                0
                Yes here. In view of the blockade of Leningrad, all merit has been crossed out. This is not forgiven.
    6. iouris
      iouris 19 June 2020 20: 15 New
      0
      Where is Japan?
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 19 June 2020 10: 39 New
    +4
    Well, he wrote everything correctly, France and England just got scared and thought that Hitler would trample on the USSR.
    1. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 19 June 2020 10: 55 New
      10
      In Poland, Putin simply skated to B in .... .... Talking about Hitler’s new claims: “This time to his recent accomplice in the Czechoslovak section - Poland. By the way, the legacy of Versailles, the fate of the so-called Danzig corridor, also served as an occasion. then the tragedy of Poland - entirely on the conscience of the then Polish leadership, which prevented the conclusion of the Anglo-Franco-Soviet military alliance and relied on the help of Western partners. Substituted its people under the rink of the Nazi destruction machine. "
      1. RMT
        RMT 19 June 2020 11: 55 New
        0
        England, France and the USSR are going to conclude an alliance, but Poland is against and there is no alliance? Come on, don’t tell! The opinion of Poland is very important.
    2. New
      New Year day 19 June 2020 12: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Pessimist22
      France and England just chickened out

      not scared, but counted on it
  • Aleksey Aleksandrovich
    Aleksey Aleksandrovich 19 June 2020 10: 39 New
    +9
    So, in his characteristic manner, politely and diplomatically, Putin sealed with the historical truth of Western cheaters who rewrote the history of WWII.
    Let's look at their reaction. She will no doubt be stormy.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 19 June 2020 10: 46 New
      +7
      Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich
      So, in his characteristic manner, politely and diplomatically, Putin sealed with the historical truth of Western cheaters who rewrote the history of WWII.
      Let's look at their reaction. She will no doubt be stormy.

      So it would be like to print local cheaters, and remove the screen from the mausoleum ...

      There is still time until June 24th.
      1. Aleksey Aleksandrovich
        Aleksey Aleksandrovich 19 June 2020 10: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: Insurgent
        That's how it would be to print local cheaters


        Yes. You're right. But to print them you need tough, punitive methods from the recent past. Is our society ready for this? Not sure.
        And you won’t print local parasites with a word. Only business.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 19 June 2020 10: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexey Alexandrovich
          Yes. You're right. But to print them you need methods from the recent past. Is our society ready for this? Not sure.


          When an operation is needed in the name of saving a life in an extreme situation, a wounded / sick person is not asked if he wants it or not ...

          Maybe,"order 2-2-7"many also did not like ...
      2. Nasrat
        Nasrat 19 June 2020 10: 58 New
        -6
        Quote: Insurgent

        ..and remove the screen from the mausoleum ...
        .

        It would be more correct to remove the mausoleum itself .. and bury grandfather, albeit with honor ... in order to show respect to those who believe in the ideals of this grandfather ..
        And you, as I understand it, from the republics of Donbass .... then for you personally:
        Luxembourg R. Manuscript of the Russian Revolution:
        Rosa Luxemburg wrote: “Ukrainian nationalism in Russia was ... nothing more than a simple quirk, the antics of several dozen petty-bourgeois intellectuals, without any roots in the economy, politics or the spiritual sphere of the country, without any historical tradition, for Ukraine was never a nation , neither by the state ... And such a ridiculous thing of several university professors and students, Lenin and his comrades artificially inflated the political factor with their doctrinaire agitation for "the right to self-determination, etc."

        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 19 June 2020 11: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: Nasr
          It would be more correct to remove the mausoleum itself .. and bury grandfather, albeit with honor ...
          And you, as I understand it, from the republics of Donbass .... then for you personally:
          Luxembourg R. Manuscript of the Russian Revolution

          That's it - from Donbass, and we, with memory, history, and monuments - are not at war.
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 19 June 2020 11: 05 New
            -8
            Quote: Insurgent
            Quote: Nasr
            It would be more correct to remove the mausoleum itself .. and bury grandfather, albeit with honor ...
            And you, as I understand it, from the republics of Donbass .... then for you personally:
            Luxembourg R. Manuscript of the Russian Revolution

            That's it - from Donbass, and we, with memory, history, and monuments - are not at war.

            You do not fight with monuments and history, for that history is fighting with you ... and not figuratively. And God knows how many more sacrifices will be required from you in order to correct the mistakes of history ... But you seem to like the ideas of Lenin - this is your choice ...
        2. Gardamir
          Gardamir 19 June 2020 11: 10 New
          -3
          Let the US be the first to remove their Mausoleums.
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 19 June 2020 11: 12 New
            0
            Quote: Gardamir
            Let the US be the first to remove their Mausoleums.

            Let them walk on their heads, I don’t mind ... laughing
    2. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 19 June 2020 11: 41 New
      +4
      Unnoticed was the article of Patrushev of June 17: "17.06.2020/17/00 XNUMX:XNUMX
      Does Russia need “universal” values?
      Spiritual and moral values ​​of society as the basis of state sovereignty
      Text: Nikolai Patrushev (Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation) Rossiyskaya Gazeta - Federal Issue No. 132 (8186 "
      https://rg.ru/2020/06/17/nuzhny-li-rossii-universalnye-cennosti.html
      Articles by Putin and Patrushev are related to the topic of a civilized choice of the peoples of the world. ".. Russia, in fact, offers a new civilizational choice, the content of which includes equality, justice, non-interference in internal affairs, the absence of a mentor tone and any preconditions for mutually beneficial cooperation"
      "The offensive is being waged on" all fronts "of this" hybrid "war. The main blow has been chosen to erode the traditions of various peoples, their language, faith and historical memory of generations that have developed over the centuries. Such norms and values ​​cannot be accepted by the multinational Russian people under any circumstances. conditions. "
      1. New
        New Year day 19 June 2020 12: 47 New
        +2
        Quote: To be or not to be
        Unnoticed was the article of Patrushev of June 17: "17.06.2020/17/00 XNUMX:XNUMX
        Does Russia need “universal” values?

        why? Who cares, read.
        Only there are only slogans.
        Family: Russia ahead of Europe: 4,2 divorces per thousand. For comparison: the average for the EU is 1,9;
        On justice and “the priority of the spiritual over the material”:
        the general condition of Russian dollar billionaires has grown during the pandemic by 62 billion "green", reaching a total of almost half a trillion, 3% of Russia's wealthiest population today own 89% of the country's financial assets. The total wealth of the Russian billionaires, according to Forbes, rose sharply in the 2000s and stabilized at the level of 25–40 percent of the national wealth ... This is much more than in Western countries: in the USA, Germany, France in 2005–2015 - from 5 to 15 percent.
        “Continuity of the history of our country”: on May 9, the mausoleum is draped, overwhelmed everything Soviet, monuments to the Nazis are opened. What is it like?
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 19 June 2020 10: 41 New
    +7
    however, in Russia they reacted differently to it.

    The President of the country outlined his opinion and the opinion of the country on the history of WWII. Designated as an article. In principle, those people who want to know the truth will get to the bottom of it. And for those who do not need it, write, do not write in one. The article seems to be written more for the "partners" so that they know that everything is fine with our memory.
  • Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 19 June 2020 10: 42 New
    +6
    Read. Worthy good honest and unpleasant article for the West! Except for a few passages.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 19 June 2020 11: 08 New
      -9
      It is these passages that continue the Russophobic, anti-Soviet policy of the West.
      1. Aleksey Aleksandrovich
        Aleksey Aleksandrovich 19 June 2020 11: 48 New
        -2
        Quote: Gardamir
        It is these passages that continue the Russophobic, anti-Soviet policy of the West.


        And now what? To sell again and betray yourself as in 1991, in order to please the West?
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 19 June 2020 11: 54 New
          -5
          But isn't he doing this? Reread completely. It is important for the West to pour mud on Stalin. Putin supports the West in this.
          1. Aleksey Aleksandrovich
            Aleksey Aleksandrovich 19 June 2020 12: 01 New
            0
            I will not argue who is pouring mud on anyone, this is an ungrateful thing. You let us stay with you, but I will probably stay with my opinion hi
  • Avior
    Avior 19 June 2020 10: 49 New
    +3
    It is unclear what could explode there, something new is nothing, a repetition of what is already known.
    Apart from one, perhaps Putin first admitted that the USSR, in principle, was not going to attack Hitler
    I can responsibly declare that there are no archival documents that would confirm the version of the USSR’s intention to launch a preventive war against Germany
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 19 June 2020 10: 51 New
      +3
      Quote: Avior
      Putin admitted for the first time that the USSR, in principle, was not going to attack Hitler

      And before that, Putin,did not recognize this fact? belay belay belay
      1. Avior
        Avior 19 June 2020 11: 01 New
        +1
        In any case, I have not seen such statements with reference to the archives.
        if you saw, give a link, I will be interested to read
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 19 June 2020 11: 07 New
          -3
          Quote: Avior
          In any case, I have not seen such statements with reference to the archives.
          if you saw, give a link, I will be interested to read


          Are you out of your mind? belay

          Declare Putin recognized(not said,namely "recognized") the fact that the USSR could not attack Germany because of the lack of such plans, and still require" links ", confirmations ???
          1. Avior
            Avior 19 June 2020 11: 21 New
            +1
            you do not cling to the words, if you know that there were previously confirmed statements that the USSR was ready to coexist peacefully with Nazism, throw a link.
            I see this recognition for the first time. I consider it important.
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 19 June 2020 11: 29 New
        -1
        Quote: Insurgent
        And before that, Putin, did not recognize this fact?

        Prior to this, he said that the countries in which the USSR exported social experiments suffered:
      3. Pereira
        Pereira 19 June 2020 11: 32 New
        -2
        Prior to this, the Russian authorities did not recognize this fact. Even fake secret protocols concocted.
        And Putin was silent.
        1. Malyuta
          Malyuta 19 June 2020 11: 40 New
          -2
          Quote: Pereira
          Even fake secret protocols concocted.
          And Putin was silent.

          Including in Katyn and Putin recognized them as a glaring fact of "bloody" Stalinism.
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 19 June 2020 11: 40 New
            -1
            That's it.
            1. Malyuta
              Malyuta 19 June 2020 11: 47 New
              -7
              Quote: Pereira
              That's it.

              The next lycimer-conjunctural shoe in the air of the bunkeroman, reinforced concrete PR move in front of the voting ball.
              It is all created by PR from PR.
              1. Pereira
                Pereira 19 June 2020 11: 50 New
                -2
                In principle, a good attempt. But she did not convince me. I still won’t go to the referendum.
    2. Woodman
      Woodman 19 June 2020 10: 58 New
      +5
      Quote: Avior
      something new nothing, repetition of the already known.

      This is known to us. For the western layman, probably there is a lot of new things.
    3. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 19 June 2020 11: 01 New
      +4
      All clear:
      1. The article was published on the eve of the military parade in honor of the 75th anniversary of the Victory
      2. The most interesting in the American newspaper
      3. The culprits of the war and the process of pushing Hitler to war are identified
      4. The article is related to the current situation in the world and the threat of a new war ..
      Maybe there will be a meeting of the five leaders?
      Already leading world media gave first comments
      http://actualcomment.ru/nastoyashchie-uroki-vtoroy-mirovoy-voyny-zapadnye-smi-o-state-putina-2006191018.html
      For example, the German media Deutsche Welle also focuses on the conclusions that Putin made in the essay. The president notes that the post-war "rules of conduct" agreed upon by Winston Churchill, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Joseph Stalin, "laid the foundation for a world in which there has been no global war for 75 years, despite the most acute contradictions." The proposed summit of country leaders, according to Putin, would demonstrate a commitment to "the values ​​for which our fathers and grandfathers fought shoulder to shoulder."
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 19 June 2020 10: 53 New
    +3
    Putin's article "blew up the Western media"
    So this is understandable - a complete break in their template. It was very correct to focus on the behavior and “whispering” with Hitler of the British and French. The vile role of Poland was said earlier with the application of archival documents. Now let them puff and give birth in order to come up with a new thing in the history of the 2nd MV defaming the USSR.
    1. cniza
      cniza 19 June 2020 12: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Putin's article "blew up the Western media"
      Now let them puff and give birth in order to come up with a new thing in the history of the 2nd MV defaming the USSR.


      Do you think they will swallow silently and will not do anything?
  • Boris55
    Boris55 19 June 2020 10: 55 New
    -12
    The term "World War II" is needed to nullify our victory over fascism.

    There were two different wars.

    The war on the Western Front was for us a war of liberation.
    The war on the Far Eastern Eastern Front is a war in fulfillment of allied obligations, military assistance to China in the liberation of Manchuria from Japanese militarism, and, as it does not seem sharp, the seizure of Japan’s part of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands that belonged to us earlier (under the kings).

    The emperor of Japan admitted defeat only after the bombing of the United States by the nuclear bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    In fact, the United States is the victor in the Far Eastern War. Recognizing that our domestic war in the West with the participation of the United States and Agnglia and the Far Eastern war with our participation, I do not at all beg the honor and valor of our soldiers, recognizing both these wars as one and calling them by a common name - "World War II", we recognize the victory of the USA in it, the victory of the USA not only in the Far East but also in the West.

    We were in Berlin. The USA was in Tokyo. Medvedev in 2010 recognized the US victory in WWII. I do not want to recognize the term "World War II". For me, these are two different wars and WWII, we were winners!

    ps
    There is a phenomenon, an image arises, to which a code (word) is assigned. By changing the word, the image does not arise, the phenomenon becomes incomprehensible. This is the manipulation of consciousness.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 19 June 2020 11: 31 New
      +1
      USA was in Tokyo

      The United States would be in Tokyo, at best, a year like that in 1947, if the Soviet troops had not broken the ridge of the Kwantung Army Group in two months.
      The emperor of Japan admitted defeat only after the bombing of the United States by the nuclear bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

      Emperor Hirohito and 100 million of his subjects were determined to fight and die after the atomic bombings, as evidenced by many documents.
      Only the loss of the resource base of Manchuria and the Quantum Army forced Japan to surrender.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 19 June 2020 11: 39 New
        -4
        Quote: Doccor18
        Emperor Hirohito and 100 million of his subjects were determined to fight and die after the atomic bombings, as evidenced by many documents.

        Read:
        Emperor Hirohito's Speech on Accepting Japan's Surrender Conditions August 15 1945 of the year. "... We ordered our government to inform the governments of the United States, Great Britain, ..." The USSR is in last place there.

        Again. I do not beg for much of our contribution to the defeat of Japan.

    2. Pereira
      Pereira 19 June 2020 11: 38 New
      -1
      Add to this that before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on the planet, two wars went on in parallel, one in Europe, the other in Asia, which were not separate world wars. And even then in Asia formally there was no war. There was a border conflict between Japan and China.

      After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, on December 8, 1941, she declared war on Britain. On December 9, the Chiang Kai-shek government declared war on the “axis countries": Germany and Italy, becoming an ally of the USSR and Great Britain, and the next day they finally managed to do the same for the samurai.

      Here is the real date when truly more than half of the world's population officially, openly and legally divided into two clearly defined blocks.
      And then, as we all remember, the USSR, I did not fight Japan until the age of 45.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 19 June 2020 12: 05 New
        0
        Quote: Pereira
        And then, as we all remember, the USSR, I did not fight Japan until the age of 45.

        After Khalkhin Gol, Japan did not dare to attack us.

        For us, there was a war in the West that ended on May 9, 1945, and another war in the Far East, which began on August 8, 1945. The difference between these wars is three months. It is these three months that separate one war from another.

        ps
        If there is a single WWII, then where is the general ACT on the surrender of one of the parties?
        1. Pereira
          Pereira 19 June 2020 12: 13 New
          +2
          And there was also time from 1939 to the 41st. Then there was no WWII, but there were a number of isolated conflicts.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 19 June 2020 11: 04 New
    -3
    According to him, the contribution of the Soviet army to the defeat of the Nazis is three quarters
    ... Original ... how did he consider and why the contribution ... Like, they helped Hitler’s western powers to overcome ..
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 19 June 2020 11: 26 New
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      how did he count

      An article on the Kremlin’s website, it says what he thought, but if you don’t have leisure, then here’s the original about “three quarters”:
      The commission's tasks included defining a formula according to which a defeated Germany was to compensate for the damage suffered by the victorious powers. The commission came to the following conclusion: “The number of days spent by Germany on the Soviet front soldier exceeds the same amount on all other allied fronts by at least 10 times. The Soviet front also delayed four-fifths of German tanks and about two-thirds of German aircraft. ” On the whole, the USSR accounted for about 75 percent of all the military efforts of the anti-Hitler coalition.
      So "three quarters" is just a clumsy translation from English.
      PS It’s not clear why commenting on the translation, if the original is publicly available ...
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 19 June 2020 11: 35 New
        +2
        But it’s not clear why commenting on the translation if the original is publicly available ...
        .... I don’t understand another reason why publish a translation, without excerpts from the article ...
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 19 June 2020 11: 04 New
    -1
    It would seem an adequate article. But I read about the repression of Stalin’s crimes against the people. Then, it would seem that in denouncing the collusion of the British and French with the Germans and Poles, he suddenly again condemned the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
    By the way, condemning someone, he does not think that they will talk about economic repressions against the people.
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 19 June 2020 11: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: Gardamir
      suddenly again condemned the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

      He merely stated the fact of condemnation by the Supreme Soviet of the USSR.
      And I agree, some passages could have been avoided.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 19 June 2020 11: 04 New
    +1
    Putin’s article “blew up the Western media,”
    I don’t know who exploded there, but remembering the League of Nations was already superfluous.
    On December 14, 1939, the League of Nations expelled the USSR from its membership for the bombing of civilian targets in Helsinki. The "Regulation on the definition of the aggressor" was applied to the USSR, initiated 6 years earlier by the USSR itself.
    This was done in violation of the charter of the League of Nations, which was directly stated by Soviet diplomats, but no one was listening to them.
    The League of Nations without the USSR became a complete political impotent, and during the entire Second World War, no country more turned to it for help.
    1. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 19 June 2020 11: 14 New
      +2
      "... Putin’s article" blew up the Western media, "
      I don’t know who exploded there, but remembering the League of Nations was already superfluous "

      On the contrary. timely and out of place.
      We read the League of Nations, but the UN comes to mind in its current form ..
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 19 June 2020 11: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: To be or not to be
        We read the League of Nations, but the UN comes to mind in its current form ..

        With the League of Nations, the question is closed. Dot.
        Today's view of the UN accurately reflects the current state of affairs. As long as the USSR could vote immediately with three hands (USSR + Ukraine + Belarus), with the full and unconditional support of the satellites from the countries of the socialist camp, + the so-called non-aligned, + Arab "pro-socialist" countries, everything was fine. Today, the world has changed. There is nothing you can do about it. fellow
        1. cniza
          cniza 19 June 2020 12: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: A. Privalov
          Quote: To be or not to be
          We read the League of Nations, but the UN comes to mind in its current form ..

          With the League of Nations, the question is closed. Dot.
          Today's view of the UN accurately reflects the current state of affairs. Today, the world has changed. Nothing can be done about it. fellow


          So what to do nothing? let it drift and let everyone as he wants - maybe it steers?
          1. A. Privalov
            A. Privalov 19 June 2020 14: 24 New
            0
            Quote: cniza
            So what to do nothing? let it drift and let everyone as he wants - maybe it steers?

            Your suggestions?
            1. cniza
              cniza 19 June 2020 17: 07 New
              +2
              The world was not accommodating, the memory went blank, they forgot what price many peoples paid, so you can’t do without a good shake. The UN has already outlived itself, it has simply begun to spend its contributions on its content and has grown into a stranger. Putin proposed the first step, to gather permanent members of the Security Council and said that he would propose a program of action. My guess is that it will be proposed to expand the Security Council to 20 permanent members, without any additional on a rotational basis. Further, I would suggest that the UN disperse, create a new structure and with headquarters not in the USA, but for example in China, Malaysia or the Philippines, and maybe Vietnam. It only seems to me that there will be a world shake-up and then life itself will tell you what and how to do.
              1. A. Privalov
                A. Privalov 19 June 2020 17: 59 New
                0
                Quote: cniza
                The world was not accommodating, the memory went blank, they forgot what price many peoples paid, so you can’t do without a good shake. The UN has already outlived itself, it has simply begun to spend its contributions on its content and has grown into a stranger. Putin proposed the first step, to gather permanent members of the Security Council and said that he would propose a program of action. My guess is that it will be proposed to expand the Security Council to 20 permanent members, without any additional on a rotational basis. Further, I would suggest that the UN disperse, create a new structure and with headquarters not in the USA, but for example in China, Malaysia or the Philippines, and maybe Vietnam. It only seems to me that there will be a world shake-up and then life itself will tell you what and how to do.

                The UN is extraterritorial. Whether it is in Haiti or on Franz Josef Land, nothing will change. You can not increase the number of permanent members, and even rotation. Today, big vetoers offend the little ones. So even when voting in the GA, the voice of Micronesia is equal to the voice of the Russian Federation or the USA, it’s just the first time in 70 years that you felt what sanctions are in your own skin. That lousy thing. We at our place know this well and understand. Therefore, we never support sanctions against the Russian Federation.
                1. cniza
                  cniza 19 June 2020 18: 17 New
                  +2
                  The UN is extraterritorial.


                  Only the USA decides who to let go, who not.

                  You can not increase the number of permanent members, and even rotation.


                  I wrote the opposite without rotation, 20 permanent and all.
                  1. A. Privalov
                    A. Privalov 19 June 2020 20: 26 New
                    0
                    Quote: cniza
                    Only the USA decides who to let go, who not.

                    Please recall who, when and for what the United States did not let.
                    1. cniza
                      cniza 19 June 2020 20: 39 New
                      +4
                      Here's a snap:

                      “I think this is a question not only for Russia. It is a question for all interested delegations and for the entire committee,” said the chairman of the first committee of the 74th session of the UN General Assembly, Bolivia’s Permanent Representative to the world organization Sacha Sergio Llorenti Solis.

                      The Bolivian diplomat emphasized that if any delegation gets less opportunities to work due to visa issues, then this is a common issue. Solis intends to apply for a visa issue with a question to the Secretary General of the United Nations, António Guterres, and to the chairman of the session of the General Assembly, TASS reports.

                      The work of the disarmament committee was suspended until 10 October, when a general discussion could begin. Visas other than Russian representatives were not received by members of delegations from Cuba and from Iran. Also, due to the denial of visas, the work of the sixth UN committee on international law was stopped.

                      “We will do our best to solve the problem,” emphasized Sacha Sergio Llorenti Solis.
                      1. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 19 June 2020 21: 13 New
                        0
                        Whom, of course, but because of what?
                        You go under sanctions. The UNGA resolution is not being implemented.
                        Prior to Crimea, were there problems with visas? No, it was not.
                        Why are you surprised?
                        But do you seriously believe that China, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam will let everyone go indiscriminately?
                      2. cniza
                        cniza 19 June 2020 21: 52 New
                        +2
                        Listen, because of what - this concerns two-sided relations between countries, and when delegations are not allowed in - it is political pressure in the interests of the United States, I am silent about Venezuela, but I might not like it, but I need to let it in at the UN, about Evo Morales to tell, yes I also don’t share their point of view, but the UN must be allowed ...
                      3. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 20 June 2020 00: 31 New
                        +1
                        Quote: cniza
                        but the UN must be allowed ...
                        It is necessary. I agree.
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 19 June 2020 11: 07 New
    +4
    and the section itself was fully approved by the League of Nations.

    Just as the partition by the fascists of Yugoslavia was practically with the approval of the UN, this organization was essentially the same.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 19 June 2020 12: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Incvizitor
      Just as the partition by the fascists of Yugoslavia was practically with the approval of the UN, this organization was essentially the same.
      The United Nations officially exists since October 24, 1945, and Yugoslavia was occupied in April 1941.
  • mag nit
    mag nit 19 June 2020 11: 07 New
    -13
    This is not Putin’s article, but Peskov’s blizzard.
    1. cniza
      cniza 19 June 2020 12: 16 New
      +2
      Have you read it? and there is rather a collective author, with edits and additions from Putin.
    2. Tank hard
      Tank hard 19 June 2020 20: 10 New
      0
      Quote: mag nit
      This is not Putin’s article, but Peskov’s blizzard.

      Are you talking about the Munich agreement ?! It characterizes you and your intellect very much. laughing
  • Campanella
    Campanella 19 June 2020 11: 09 New
    +1
    The echo-bearers, as always, interpreted the article from their specific angle.
    Blefkovsky or, according to his passport, Belkovsky generally stated that Stalin was ready to surrender the Soviet Union in the early days of the war, probably this lived in Stalin's rectum and was aware of everything.
    I belong to Putin without any reverence, but I think it is right to convey objective data about all the secret springs of the Second World War to the peoples of the world.
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 19 June 2020 11: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Campanella
      I belong to Putin without any reverence, but I think it is right to convey objective data about all the secret springs of the Second World War to the peoples of the world.

      The paradox is that the "peoples of the world" are busy with an incredible bunch of their pressing problems and the old "secret springs" have long been not in the forefront of their priorities. They look to the future. They have no time to look back. Behind nothing has changed.
      It hurts me and you, and there, nobody wants to stir up wounds that have healed for a long time and stir up old bones ...
      1. Campanella
        Campanella 19 June 2020 12: 05 New
        0
        "Behind nothing has changed"
        I can say that "And ahead of those in a hurry to do good, the same old rake awaits"
        "The experience is a difficult son of mistakes" ...
        Of course, any politician should sell the old as new and lead the people, acquiring mainly his benefits and skillfully redistributing the wealth of the peoples. Alas and ah, this is an eternal circuit. You can do nothing, it will spin to its logical end.
        The only incentive for a person is to have time to “live” in his life, and this is what causes for the most part political turbulence, that is, there is always a request to “live even better”. And politicians always do not mind supporting this request, since it makes it easy to solve their own requests.
        Here's a story ... Imperial Bank!
      2. cniza
        cniza 19 June 2020 12: 14 New
        +2
        Quote: A. Privalov

        It hurts me and you, and there, nobody wants to stir up wounds that have healed for a long time and stir up old bones ...


        Yes, they have healed with them, but we are still bleeding, but there is a lot but one of them - who refuses the truth of the past, can lose the future. So whoever wants to have a future, do not forget and rewrite the past.
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 19 June 2020 21: 36 New
          -2
          Quote: cniza
          Yes, they have healed with them, but we are still bleeding, but there is a lot but one of them - who refuses the truth of the past, can lose the future. So whoever wants to have a future, do not forget and rewrite the past.

          So they ask, why do you always look back at the distant past? What do you want from those who have never fought with you? They do not understand, why would the wounds suddenly begin to bleed after 80 (eighty!) Years? They believe that the wounds have healed a long time ago and there is nothing to hurt them, that there is no need for the great-great-grandchildren of the participants in the War to cause patriotic feelings artificially, with great financial expenses. They are asking directly, do you have anything else to worry about? Spit on everyone with a high bell tower, do your welfare. Otherwise, according to Zhvanetsky: "Patriotism is a clear, clear, well-reasoned explanation of the fact that we must live worse than others."
          1. cniza
            cniza 19 June 2020 22: 00 New
            +1
            No need to simplify, what does spit mean? and what values ​​to educate future generations on the LGBT? fire me. Once again, I emphasize my opinion, there is no future for those who cross out their history ...
            1. A. Privalov
              A. Privalov 20 June 2020 00: 48 New
              0
              Quote: cniza
              No need to simplify, what does spit mean? and what values ​​to educate future generations on the LGBT? fire me. Once again, I emphasize my opinion, there is no future for those who cross out their history ...

              Is there nothing else besides that terrible war? Nothing good has happened in 75 years? These LGBT people have been given to you. Do you have people grabbing their sleeves in the streets? Blue with machine guns force sadomy? In our area, they are also not all tolerated. One even threw a knife at a lesbian and killed a girl, another arranged shooting at the club. But this is bad. In a free country, citizens have the right to control their own ass at their discretion. laughing
    2. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 13: 07 New
      -1
      Quote: Campanella
      convey objective data about all the secret springs of the second world war


      and what exactly did he convey? What kind of "objective secret springs" are we talking about?
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 19 June 2020 11: 17 New
    -2
    According to some political experts, Putin’s article “blew up the Western media,” however, Russia responded differently to it.

    Actually, such a reaction was predictable. Western media have always been the property of individuals who used them to achieve their goals. The proposal to reveal the cards, providing wide access to historical documents and secret protocols, is a direct challenge to compare whose truth is stronger. Let this part of the article be discussed by those to whom it is intended.
    However, there are such lines in the article:
    Now we have new traditions born of the people, such as the Immortal Regiment. This is a march of our grateful memory, a vital, lively connection between generations. Millions of people go to processions with photographs of their relatives, who have defended the Fatherland and defeated Nazism. This means that their life, trials and sacrifices, the victory they gave us will never be forgotten.

    Can these words about memory, about the connection between generations explain the economic and political system that is happening in the country, which meets the interests of the majority for the sake of which these sacrifices were made?
    And further:
    Our responsibility to the past and future is to do everything to prevent the recurrence of terrible tragedies.

    And what has been done in this regard over twenty years, including the time of the 90s - the time of the revision of property, historical, economic, political and cultural values?

    I read this article. Most of all I was interested in her true veracity of statements and sincerity of feelings of the person who published this and signed his name.
    hi
    1. Dr. Frankenstucker
      Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 13: 05 New
      0
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Most of all, I was interested in the true truthfulness of the statements and the sincerity of the feelings of the person who published this and signed his name.


      Putin's portrait on the wall is not pacified?
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 19 June 2020 13: 29 New
        0
        Dr. Frankenstucker!
        It is clear that they assembled from spare parts for Zaporozhets, but were taught to read something in Russian? I will add, for a complete perception:
        Most of all I was interested in her “true truthfulness of statements and sincerity of feelings” of the person who published this and signed his name. Interested, because they do not fit with the affairs of the fourth term.
        1. Dr. Frankenstucker
          Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 14: 07 New
          -2
          and what does the number of terms have to do with it? The sacred "cementing and mobilizing" brace - His everything. Well, "our everything", of course. There is nothing more spiritually elevating, except for the events of 80 years ago. And, well, Orthodoxy, yes! These two braces symbolically merged in ecstasy in the Church of St. Shoigu in Patriot Park.
  • An64
    An64 19 June 2020 11: 42 New
    -1
    Why was it necessary to repeat the old Soviet ideological premises?
    "Obviously, there were no other options. Otherwise, the risks for the USSR would increase many times over, since, I repeat, the old Soviet-Polish border passed only a few tens of kilometers from Minsk, and the inevitable war with the Nazis would begin for the country from extremely unfavorable strategic positions. And millions of people of different nationalities, including Jews living near Brest and Grodno, Przemysl, Lvov and Vilno, would be thrown into extermination by the Nazis and their local minions - anti-Semites and radical nationalists"

    Minsk was occupied on the 7th day of the war. Was it such an advantageous strategic position? Not on the second, but on the seventh ...
    In fact, it was a miscalculation - to leave the old defensive lines without completing the creation of new, big miscalculation.
    Or did the USSR deport Jews to the interior of the country? No, I didn’t deport - they all also lived "near Brest and Grodno, Przemysl, Lviv and Vilna".
    Probably, we need to thoroughly understand why, with such active preparations for a future war, the USSR was absolutely not ready for it ...
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 19 June 2020 12: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: An64
      Or did the USSR deport Jews to the interior of the country? No, I didn’t deport - they all also lived "under Brest and Grodno, Przemysl, Lviv and Vilno."

      They, like all citizens of the USSR, were not evacuated.
    2. Wolf
      Wolf 19 June 2020 12: 24 New
      -2
      Should I ask Stalin and Zhukov? The Navy was ready, but there was no force.
      1. Avior
        Avior 19 June 2020 17: 39 New
        -1
        Stalin needs to be asked.
        As it turned out, there were not the slightest plans for a war with the Nazis.
        Even preventive. None.
        A gross strategic miscalculation to which the military had nothing to do.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 19 June 2020 12: 09 New
    0
    The main criticism was the resolution adopted by the European Parliament on September 19, 2019, in which European deputies are actually trying to put an equal sign between the USSR and Nazi Germany.
    Here is already too much. An equal sign should be put to all the countries of Europe that together Hitler Germany fought against the USSR, or their military units were part of the Wehrmacht or the Waffen SS.
    1. Wolf
      Wolf 19 June 2020 17: 46 New
      +1
      EXACTLY TICHONMARIN !!! To hide their benefits to Hitler and the Nazis, they came up with the equality of Hitler and Stalin !!!
  • cniza
    cniza 19 June 2020 12: 09 New
    +3
    everyone needs the truth about this war.


    Oh, not everyone, this is a blow to everyone involved in unleashing it, so they will try to bury the truth.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 19 June 2020 12: 24 New
      +1
      Hi soldier
      This is a direct revelation of the fact that everyone needs the truth! this has never been and never will be.
      1. cniza
        cniza 19 June 2020 12: 38 New
        +3
        Here the author, apparently had in mind in our country, and then not everyone ... Greetings! hi
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 19 June 2020 12: 59 New
          +1
          For OUR, the topic is important. In general, it was adequately covered.
          The fact that there were people with "bright faces" and rotten brains is disgusting. There are not many of them, but they dream of multiplying and poisoning everyone around with their stench.
          You need a disins / fect, because you can’t endure it anymore.
          1. cniza
            cniza 19 June 2020 13: 23 New
            +3
            Quote: rocket757

            You need a disins / fect, because you can’t endure it anymore.


            This is for sure, and then revelry, especially among young people, is not right, we must not forget what our ancestors did ...
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 19 June 2020 13: 35 New
              +2
              In adolescents, immunity to lies is weak. Here only knowledge and life experience can help.
              And it’s such a sweet lie, already be-eee ... but it sticks to your ears, for sure. it’s not fools who started it all ... so we should not stay lazy fools.
              1. cniza
                cniza 19 June 2020 16: 53 New
                +3
                Quote: rocket757

                And it’s such a sweet lie, already be-eee ... but it sticks to your ears, for sure. it’s not fools who started it all ... so we should not stay lazy fools.


                Yes, whole institutes work there, to fool around ...
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 20 June 2020 10: 24 New
                  +1
                  Quote: cniza

                  Yes, whole institutes work there, to fool

                  They, in general, do not hide their goals .... They are created and work with the goal of destroying everything and anyone who can tell them not and send .... far.
                  1. cniza
                    cniza 20 June 2020 11: 47 New
                    +3
                    Many can develop and plan, but to anticipate these plans and activities ...
                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 20 June 2020 11: 56 New
                      +1
                      They try, they don’t stop even for a second .... and it’s good that they have a contingent of workers in this topic, just as dumb as everything else. There is no one to play subtly, cunningly, effectively, they switch to dull pressure. And the world has already shrunk like a spring, he can only break or straighten up! Who will win?
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 19 June 2020 18: 27 New
        +3
        Quote: rocket757
        This is a direct revelation of the fact that everyone needs the truth! this has never been and never will be.

        The truth is not needed for those who fought against us, and who helped Hitler, and those who unleashed this war. Even surprisingly, Ukraine does not need it, or rather the current regime, although the people of Ukraine were in the camp of the victors and suffered enormous losses. I wonder how Ukrainians feel defeated or victorious.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 20 June 2020 10: 25 New
          +1
          The truth is dangerous to those whose rot in the cabinets is hidden. And there are many.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 20 June 2020 11: 10 New
            +1
            Quote: rocket757
            The truth is dangerous to those whose rot in the cabinets is hidden.

            That's for sure, naphthalene needs to be strewed in the closet.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 20 June 2020 11: 37 New
              0
              No, no, it's like a Taiga cologne in a collective farm club.
              Only activated carbon, lots, lots of coal. But no cabinet can stand such a required amount, it still falls out.
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 20 June 2020 12: 34 New
                0
                Quote: rocket757
                No, no, it's like a Taiga cologne in a collective farm club.

                I remember, I remember, but there were no mosquitoes.
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 20 June 2020 12: 40 New
                  0
                  Well, yes, Taiga, Angara, and polish everything with cucumber moose.
                  Although, until now I do not understand how it could be used for other purposes.
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 20 June 2020 13: 35 New
                    0
                    Quote: rocket757
                    Well, yes, Taiga, Angara, and polish everything with cucumber moose.

                    Well, if they took BF-2 polish and glue, then the cucumber moose went like Napoleon. Even in 2000, we had Ukrainian-made Triple cologne, so it was dismantled for grasp. It was a shame to buy a bottle, God forbid the neighbors will see.
                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 20 June 2020 13: 44 New
                      0
                      If you recall .... there is nothing to be proud of either, Royal alcohol, it was not a little drunk .... it was lucky that the fishing partner had a father who was a great experimenter on tinctures, he turned this liquid into a completely drinkable product!
                      1. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 20 June 2020 13: 55 New
                        0
                        Quote: rocket757
                        If you recall .... also proud of nothing, Royal alcohol,

                        Honestly, I did not understand the use of colognes, lotions, Royal, when sugar is everywhere in bulk and prices are low, drive yourself a moonshine, a very good product is obtained.
                      2. rocket757
                        rocket757 20 June 2020 14: 38 New
                        0
                        I made chacha from what grew out of me ... it was a sensible product and for a long time, then, was not preserved. I do it now, sometimes I keep it for years. Only for special occasions.
                      3. tihonmarine
                        tihonmarine 20 June 2020 15: 39 New
                        0
                        Quote: rocket757
                        I do it now, sometimes I keep it for years.

                        I also made apples until my wife covered a bench. Although it did not last long.
  • Wolf
    Wolf 19 June 2020 12: 17 New
    0
    THE MOST IMPORTANT!!!


    The Russian president accused a number of European politicians, in particular Polish, of trying to hide information about the "Munich agreement", which resulted in the division of Czechoslovakia. Putin recalled that Hitler and Mussolini participated in it, as well as the heads of government of Great Britain and France Neville Chamberlain and Eduard Daladier, and the section itself was held with the full approval of the League of Nations



    The Czechs called it: MINHENSKAYA betrayal.
    The problem here is that the European “politics” deb..and does not want to see how much it is like with the division of Serbia in the beginning of the 21st century when Germany disintegrated Yugoslavia into a place with NATO and now I want to divide Serbia.


    Then it will be proclaimed in their history that nekatori novi "GAVRILO PRINCIPLE" is to blame for the world war !!!


    Therefore, no one says about Minkhen Betrayal that the bi people did not understand what they are doing today! wink
    1. Wolf
      Wolf 19 June 2020 17: 40 New
      0
      we’ll add because historians “do not know” 1 World War started by the Occupation (Aneksiom) of Bosnia at the end of the 19th century, when the Serbs liberated Bosnia and Turetskoy occupation Herzegovskoy uprising, the Turks and the Habsburgs agreed on the occupation of Bosnia on the side of the Habsburgs (Austria-Hungary). When Gvrilo the Principle slammed Ferdinand 1914 in OCCUPIED SARAJEV it was only the consequences of the occupation. Esli bi Hitler came to Belgrade for the parades of 1941, it was just as hard as it would have been for Petar Petrovich to slam him in Belgrade! Then in history, for the semi-Dites, the “historians” would write that the Second World War and the Holocaust of the Jews as well as the Slavyanov genocide began in Belgrade when Petar Petrovich slammed Hitler in Belgrade !!!
      1. Wolf
        Wolf 19 June 2020 17: 43 New
        0
        And World War 3 began in 1999. Belgrade bombing, because the "historians" do not see it !!! wink
  • rocket757
    rocket757 19 June 2020 12: 23 New
    0
    He added kerosene to the fire, which the “foreign partners” have been trying to ignore for a long time and overhaul. Let's see what happens. So there is nothing new, nothing known, to those who were interested, there is none.
  • Dr. Frankenstucker
    Dr. Frankenstucker 19 June 2020 13: 00 New
    +2
    According to some political experts, Putin’s article “blew up the Western media,”


    "blew up", nda .... how else otherwise? Now pocket butt will crumble in compliments to the Chief Historian of the Second World War.
    I suspect that with the release of the article in the Russian media, the Lysoblyudskaya campaign will begin as with the Brezhnev trilogy.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 19 June 2020 13: 01 New
    0
    Deffenbachia has a very painful color. They say that a bad person is with her, with such a color on the leaves. Although, I would not keep this plant in the house.
  • Aitvaras
    Aitvaras 19 June 2020 13: 09 New
    +1
    Undoubtedly, this Red Banner was above the Reichstag in 1945, as President Putin wrote in an article with honesty and objectivity of history that with the opinion of the Author can be debated, for example, the assertion about the Naty League and its effectiveness then is very doubtful or, that the USA "nourished" fascism by building factories, factories, etc. in Germany after the WWII but also in the USSR the USA then supplied technologies, equipment, machine tools, for example. GAZ, Magnitogorsk and other industry. objects, then according to this logic it can be argued that the US imperialists "nourished" the Communists of the USSR, which, according to the Germans then, was possibly a threat to Germany.
    About WWII culprits, mainly The author is right, this is cowardice, selfishness, shortsightedness, etc., but then the Molotov Pact-Ribbentrop is not sinful. Stalin knew about Hitler’s Mein Kampf’s work, politicians in Germany and not only did Hitler not hide the need for living space in the East, Barbaross’s plan in the USSR was known. In 1939-40, Germany had no opportunity to attack the USSR, in Poland, in 1939 the Germans used up almost all of the air bombs, the motor resources of German aircraft were also used up - significantly. Britain and France declared war on Germany and began mobilizing that there would be a "strange war" then no one could know. In 1940, only the "Dunkirk miracle" saved the army of B. Britania from almost total destruction, while the USSR had a benevolent neutrality towards Germany, as with Sweden. There were supplies to Germany of coal, oil products, ore, and other strategic materials, and most importantly, a reliable rear was ensured.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 19 June 2020 21: 26 New
      0
      In 1940, only the “Dunkirk miracle” saved the British army from almost complete destruction, while the USSR had a benevolent neutrality towards Germany, like Sweden. There were supplies to Germany of coal, oil products, ore, and other strategic materials, and most importantly, a reliable rear was ensured.
      So much has come to us from Germany at the same time. And this pact was the victory of Stalin and the USSR, preventing the alliance of Western countries from being struck up against us, which was not fiction at all.
    2. Wolf
      Wolf 23 June 2020 12: 49 New
      0
      The “Miracle of Dunkirk” wasn’t what historians would know, but the AGREEMENT, and Hes didn’t fly to Britannia to see the tourist in London.
  • lis-ik
    lis-ik 19 June 2020 13: 10 New
    0
    Russian President Vladimir Putin published in the American edition of National Interest an article entitled “75 years of the Great Victory: a shared responsibility before history and the future,”
    Well, now this publication cannot be called the yellow press, as the streamers love, it will not work, otherwise they will be equated with criticism of the authorities.
    1. An64
      An64 19 June 2020 13: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: lis-ik
      Well, now this publication cannot be called the yellow press, as the Screetrans love it.

      Is someone called the "yellow press" really the publication, which is led by Dmitry Simes, a Soviet emigrant, friend of Molotov’s grandson and channel 1 presenter?
      The news feed is constantly replete with headlines like "As an NI expert said ...", "NI talked about ..." ...
  • Guazdilla
    Guazdilla 19 June 2020 14: 03 New
    +1
    From the article:

    In November 1940, the Führer Adolf Hitler made his last attempt to persuade the USSR to join the Alliance of the Third Reich, fascist Italy and militaristic Japan, Russian President Vladimir Putin wrote in his article for the American magazine The National Interest.

    Hitler then tried to persuade the Soviet leadership, headed by Joseph Stalin, to unite with the Axis countries during the visit of the USSR People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs Vyacheslav Molotov to Berlin, but he did not give in.

    When Vova Putin dreamed of becoming a scout, the damned commies made him step on the throat of his own beloved, liberal song. But, even this was his first good experience of owning himself into the legend of the future great mystifier, the result of which was an excellent biography of the pioneer-Komsomol member-communist.
    And the carbon monoxide Hitler, according to Vladimir Vladimirovich, stunningly fooled everyone, first in prison, writing "Mein Kampf", and then confirming this legend, replanting, shooting a bunch of Communists, Jews. But, to drive to Stalin, the leader of the world proletariat with an unscrupulous proposal for partnership, this turned out to be sufficient, according to the article of the writer. The hidden meaning is clear too, power-hungry people do not need any ideology.
    It sometimes seems to me sometimes that something will not work out with a new ideology for Russia, patriotism promoted on behalf of the president, after such a free interpretation of the events of the preceding WWII.
  • Petersburg printing house
    Petersburg printing house 19 June 2020 14: 10 New
    -1
    History could take a completely different path if Hitler considered options for mutually beneficial cooperation with the USSR (which happened until June 1944). But history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. In fact, the secret protocols of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact make the Soviet Union the same aggressor as Germany, which after the attack of the latter went beyond the borders of western Belarus, Ukraine and Poland, having joined them through military operations. Our Great Victory is a great achievement of our great-grandfathers who, at the cost of incredible efforts and sacrifices, made our free life possible. But history must be remembered as a whole picture, and not presented with its individual sections under the guise of true truth.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 19 June 2020 21: 20 New
      +2
      But history must be remembered as a whole picture, and not presented with its individual sections under the guise of true truth.
      Apply it to your remarks.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 19 June 2020 14: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: Petersburg typographer
    History could take a completely different path if Hitler considered options for mutually beneficial cooperation with the USSR (which happened until June 1944). But history does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. In fact, the secret protocols of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact make the Soviet Union the same aggressor as Germany, which after the attack of the latter went beyond the borders of western Belarus, Ukraine and Poland, having joined them through military operations. Our Great Victory is a great achievement of our great-grandfathers who, at the cost of incredible efforts and sacrifices, made our free life possible. But history must be remembered as a whole picture, and not presented with its individual sections under the guise of true truth.

    You probably read it? laughing I posted it here the notorious "secret protocol" It can be read in German in the original too laughing The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact infuriates the British immensely because some undereducated seminarist managed to use her favorite weapon against the BI - he pitted his enemies with himself. By the way, the story of the Warsaw Uprising cannot be forgotten either, because Stalin did not succumb to the bait and simply watched with pleasure how the Fritz’s enemies convince the British litter from the Home Army. It is unbearable that the Russians insert the British with their beloved strapon. laughing
  • vladcub
    vladcub 19 June 2020 15: 06 New
    +3
    [quote = svp67] [quote = military_cat] Hungary and Slovakia were "axis" satellites, no one has any questions about them, these were criminal regimes. [/ quote]
    that's just no one claims to them ... [/ quote
    And why should they make complaints to them when we are?
  • Avior
    Avior 19 June 2020 18: 50 New
    -3
    Well, there’s an article in the National. There is now Chinese Sohu next in turn :).
  • Radikal
    Radikal 19 June 2020 19: 21 New
    0
    An article by Vladimir Putin about World War II was published in an American magazine.
    I got acquainted on the official website.
    The mountain gave birth ... a mouse. The repetition (and in truncated form) of well-known facts. After reading the impression that the people gathered at the veche on Red Square and decided - Ayda to fight the fascist feud, and went in a heap, some with an ax, some with a horn, and some with a dresco ... Just like in Burnt by the Sun ....
    In general, it is better than written in a 12-volume academic publication issued by the Military Publishing House from 1973 to 1982. The "History of World War II 1939-1945" is unlikely that anyone will be able to expose those events in the near future. It provides an in-depth analysis of the pre-war situation, the contradictions, and most importantly the reasons that led to the war, describes all the most important operations on all military operations, moreover, they are illustrated by maps with the situation, in dynamics. I often turn to him when some "historians" begin to procrastinate a particular topic of the past war. I think that at one time I was lucky to subscribe and fully redeem this publication. sad
    1. iouris
      iouris 19 June 2020 22: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: Radikal
      The mountain gave birth ... a mouse.

      And what do you want: the history of the Russian Federation is unpredictable, and the historical science at the same time to the mice ...
      There are, of course, “titans” of the type of Pivovarov, who didn’t know where he added the archives, but he is not subject to jurisdiction. By the way, among other things, it seems that the archive of US newspapers has "disappeared" without trace since the creation of this "democratic" state. Well, how to develop science?
  • Tank hard
    Tank hard 19 June 2020 20: 00 New
    +1
    Then I liked Putin, well done. Here is a video about this, and they are still silent!
  • NordUral
    NordUral 19 June 2020 21: 17 New
    0
    A word close to Putin contribution scratched painfully. It can be said about the States that they invested with interest, but not about the USSR.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 19 June 2020 22: 23 New
      0
      Quote: NordUral
      It can be said about the States that they invested with interest, but not about the USSR.

      You, as a noble citizen of the United States, know the ultimate. laughing
      1. NordUral
        NordUral 20 June 2020 10: 32 New
        0
        Do not drink so much, von Messer, is unhealthy. And glitches begin to visit you.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 19 June 2020 21: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Tank Hard
    Then I liked Putin, well done. Here is a video about this, and they are still silent!

    This guy from the video, which Ostashko needs to change his shirt to another .... lol
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 19 June 2020 22: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Radikal
      This guy from the video, which Ostashko needs to change his shirt to another ..

      Or maybe you need to change the avatar? wink For, judging by your comment, this Ostashko is a greater supporter of Stalin than you. request
  • Radikal
    Radikal 19 June 2020 23: 06 New
    -1
    Quote: Tank Hard
    Quote: Radikal
    This guy from the video, which Ostashko needs to change his shirt to another ..

    Or maybe you need to change the avatar? wink For, judging by your comment, this Ostashko is a greater supporter of Stalin than you. request

    Really? If you believe the video that you posted, then it looks more like an associate of the Guarantor. lol
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 20 June 2020 18: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Radikal
      Really? If you believe the video that you posted, then it looks more like an associate of the Guarantor.

      Well, if you do not agree with his comments, but agree with people like Garry Kasparov, then your avatar, is this apparently such a banter?
  • Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 20 June 2020 13: 15 New
    +2
    My grandfather fought, like most on the site .. There is an order and medals.
    Further comment does not make sense.
    I agree with GDP.
  • gyroscope
    gyroscope 20 June 2020 15: 12 New
    0
    I read foreign news sites, I came across an article from Victoria Nuland
    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2020-06-09/pinning-down-putin
    Read, informative ....
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 20 June 2020 18: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: Gyroscope
      I came across an article from Victoria Nuland

      Yeah, and she can also distribute cookies with pies. "Not good" aunt. laughing
  • grumbler
    grumbler 20 June 2020 19: 20 New
    -2
    Naturally, Putin did not mention the article (http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/63527) about the initially destabilizing role of Bolshevik Russia itself.
    It was the separate world of the Bolsheviks with Germany (in fact - the betrayal of the Allies of the Entente) that led the French and the British to punish Germany so hard after the victory that had been so hard for them. And not only because it was a geopolitical victory in the clash of colonial empires.
    But also because Russia was not among the winners, which would not allow Germany to dictate such humiliating and unbearable conditions of peace, traditionally having close dynastic, financial-industrial, scientific and cultural ties with Germany. And just human - a noticeable part of Russian engineers, doctors, artisans, officials and officers (who honestly fought at the WWI front for Russia!) Were ethnic Germans.

    Bolshevism was extremely aggressive from the first days of its existence. He elevated to the rank of state ideology incompatibility, class enmity, repression against dissidents. The Bolsheviks opposed themselves to Christianity and bourgeois virtues dominant in Europe, the USA.
    In fact, paving the way for this and the ideologies of Nazism - the basis for which is the same division of society into "ours and not ours", the cult of "state violence" and the rejection of humanistic values.

    The Soviets raved for a long time about the “world Revolution” —that threatened to destabilize the entire Western world and the regions under its control (already unstable due to the decolonization processes that had begun), prepared for war either with Poland or with England (the sentence “English spy” was one of “popular” among the accusations of the Great Terror of the 30s). Therefore, in particular, even in liberal-bourgeois democracies (Britain, France, Belgium and even the USA) there were many sympathizers with Francoism, Italian fascism, and even Nazism - as among authoritarian leaders such as Hitler, Franco, Mussolini or Pilsudski, many bourgeois saw protection from the "Reds and Jews", not trusting the "liberal talkers" (for example, France approached WWII politically weakened, a dozen governments were replaced there in 10 years).

    Putin is somehow too "overtly naive" for a politician of this level, bypasses the annexation of the USSR by the Baltic countries and the unsuccessful attack on Finland. Which even more divided pre-war Europe (Putin mentioned the League of Nations, but also preferred not to focus on why the USSR was expelled from it and why it was ineffective) and created the illusion of Hitler that he could take advantage of these contradictions (in other words, not so there was an illusion, judging by the victims of WWII). And what about the "controversial" policy of the USSR in the war in Spain? The high-profile political killings and abductions committed by the GPU-NKVD in Europe against the leaders of the Russian anti-communist emigration and to Mexico (Trotsky’s murder)? - so reminiscent of the muddy affair of the Sripals.
    Thus, the USSR also has a fair amount of blame for the fact that in pre-war Europe it was not possible to create a single anti-Nazi front and prevent the victims of WWII / WWII.

    Such an unbalanced article would have been perfectly fine for internal use in Russia by May 9th. And then anyone who, besides the propaganda of the Solovyov-Skabeev-Pushkov-Kulikov and others, at least sometimes opens the magazines Rodina, Klio or Russia in global politics, etc., will be surprised at its "kindergarten" level.
    Slipping "such" to the President of Russia for publication in foreign media - imho, this is a successful "ideological diversion of the damned liberals" (well, they are always guilty of everything;)
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 21 June 2020 10: 16 New
      -1
      Quote: grumbler
      Bolshevism was extremely aggressive from the first days of its existence. He elevated to the rank of state ideology incompatibility, class enmity, repression against dissidents. The Bolsheviks opposed themselves to Christianity and bourgeois virtues dominant in Europe, the USA.

      All the caveman anti-communists repeat this mantra, but they do not take into account that Russia lay in ruins after the Civil War and could not influence international affairs in any way. As for the agreements of the twenties, based on the state of the USSR, these were quite successful actions that brought us out of isolation, which in itself would deserve respect.
      Quote: grumbler
      The Soviets raved for a long time about the “World Revolution” - which threatened to destabilize the entire Western world and the regions under its control

      You too can rave about the last winner of the Miss World contest, but you don’t have that much money to show any interest in you as a man, that’s why you have to limit your interest to your spouse. The same thing happened in the USSR after the Civil War - figuratively speaking, no “world revolution” would have surrendered to us.
      Quote: grumbler
      Putin is somehow too "overtly naive" for a politician of such a level, ignores the annexation of the USSR by the Baltic countries and the unsuccessful attack on Finland.

      Do not tell people, this is not a kindergarten and people know how to look a little deeper than typed letters. If you don’t understand that Putin’s article is a politically verified statement, worked out at least at the level of several ministries headed by the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, then it’s useless for you to explain that Putin personally signed this text, introducing corrections and giving general instructions. It looks like you are one of those who believed that the editorials in Pravda were written by the general secretaries. After Stalin, hardly anyone did this - for some reason I’m sure of this.
      Quote: grumbler
      Such an unbalanced article would have been excellent for “internal use” in Russia by May 9th.

      On the contrary, it is precisely on June 22 that such articles are published in order to attract the attention of international media to the problem of responsibility of the West for the attack on the USSR.
      Quote: grumbler
      Slipping "such" to the President of Russia for publication in foreign media - imho, this is a successful "ideological diversion of the damned liberals" (well, they are always guilty of everything;)

      Do not fantasize - I think a similar article was in the plans for 2020 at the end of 2019, when the presidential administration is scheduling events for next year. Impromptu in such matters does not happen, if it concerns questions of history, because this is not the next death of a black man in the United States, when you can bring down anything on the subject "and you hang the blacks."
      1. grumbler
        grumbler 21 June 2020 18: 18 New
        0
        Konda "This canto is repeated by all caveman anti-communists," they all take into account.
        And as a typical "cave anti-Bolshevik" (true truth!) I said this - a bad "example is contagious." And Moreover, such methods of "solving the final solution of the problem", whether Jewish or class, against the backdrop of the global financial crisis and the "collapse of empires", were in the air.

        The same thing happened in the USSR after the Civil War - figuratively speaking, no “world revolution” would have surrendered to us.

        And you see a realist. Only the Bolshevik-Trotskyists were still rushing about with these fantasies for a long time (and not entirely without foundation - the revolution in Germany, the growth of left movements in Europe.
        What year was ComIntern disbanded? - By the time they realized that they would have to "build in a separate, taken country."

        Do not tell people, this is not a kindergarten and people know how to look a little deeper than typed letters. If you don’t understand that Putin’s article is a politically verified statement, worked out at least at the level of several ministries led by the head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, then it’s useless for you to explain that Putin personally signed this text,

        So I’m just about this - a "politically verified statement." Very one-sided, the text was composed for him. And that is why it is very vulnerable to criticism.
        And your reference to the ministries does not sound very convincing - the level of expertise has drastically dropped (and not least because there is a "negative selection" of those who submit "anything's?"). Confirmation of this "brilliant" foreign policy of all these powerful "ministries and departments" in the direction of Ukraine, Georgia, Poland, the Baltic countries. Soon Belarus can join them. And then Putin has to cut the Gordian knots, tightened by his own unsuccessful creatures.

        Do not fantasize - I think a similar article was in the plans for 2020 at the end of 2019

        Are you arguing with yourself? Did I say somewhere about spontaneity? Not.
        I agree - everything is done as planned, I would say thoughtfully ... - the result is only "as always." I about it.

        Starting with the Munich speech, Putin does strange things. Why openly oppose the Western world without political, economic, or industrial potential? To further anger our enemies in the West? Why make the neutrals bow to the camp of enemies?
        And why substitute our friends in the West? (and there are many of them) To whom, after such sloppy statements, it is very difficult to convince their compatriots that Russia is only snarling.
        All the same could be done quietly, without making loud statements, gradually building muscles.
        We still have a very weak economy. Russia has no allies - from the word in general. In the countries "allies" there are no elites who share a common worldview with us (except maybe China, but it is very selfish and closed). They solve purely tactical tasks - they will remain in power in their own countries. This is the maximum that they are capable of. But they do not have a single look at the Strategy of the Future. (again, China is an exception - they have a Big Strategy, but it is Their vision, where Russia is "assigned a place"). See how all Western allies line up a “pig” on issues of principle.
        This is a consequence of the Unified Ideological Attitudes, Political Culture in the elites of the Western countries (I do not discuss whether they are true or not).

        Moscow could not achieve anything detailed, because we ourselves do not have a Strategy for the Future. Our "horizon" is the next term of irremovability V.V.P. Is this a strategy ?? Where are the elite update mechanisms? Where are the mechanisms of homeostasis - competing developmental and conservative mechanisms?

        As a liberal, I have only one answer - with such foreign political means, Putin solves purely domestic political problems. In this case, to consolidate the society around us, playing on our national quality - to rally around the leader in difficult times. For this, Russia needs to be kept in a state of "besieged fortress" all the time. I completely agree with A. Privalov June 19, 2020 21:36 "... there is no need for the great-great-grandchildren of the participants in the War to evoke patriotic feelings artificially, with great financial costs." and I ask myself - what do we have, are there no others?
        And we are literally forced to "move forward, remaining face back."
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 22 June 2020 12: 11 New
          -1
          Quote: grumbler
          And like a typical “cave anti-Bolshevik” (true truth!)

          This usually indicates an inadequate perception of the world, so I sympathize with you.
          Quote: grumbler
          And you see a realist.

          This is natural - I used to be one before, and for many years I’ve been behind it, so you become realist, if your brains understand.
          Quote: grumbler
          So I’m just about this - a "politically verified statement." Very one-sided, the text was composed for him. And that is why it is very vulnerable to criticism.

          For the western man in the street, simple texts are needed that are easy to read - you probably know that contingent poorly, but I have an idea. That's why I think the article is quite normal.
          Quote: grumbler
          We still have a very weak economy. Russia has no allies - from the word in general.

          This doesn’t matter to us at all - as long as we lead in the field of armaments, the devil is not afraid of us. If only the elite were not sold to the West, and Putin is watching over it, judging by the landings of some officials.
          Quote: grumbler
          As a liberal, I have only one answer - with such foreign political means, Putin solves purely domestic political problems.

          I believe that in the conditions of the blockade of "Russia Today" and "Sputnik" this is a great breakthrough for access to the Western media. So it’s not a matter of internal PR, you are mistaken about this.

          Quote: grumbler
          And we are literally forced to "move forward, remaining face back."

          This is all demagogy, because the issues of operational management of the country are much more important for Putin than all your maxims about where we are moving. And this is understood by those who themselves managed at least at the level of the middle workshop in Soviet times. Now they understand what Putin has to face in everyday life, especially given the fact that the personnel of the government are clearly not the best.
          1. grumbler
            grumbler 23 June 2020 22: 02 New
            -1
            For the western man in the street, simple texts are needed that are easy to read - you probably know that contingent poorly, but I have an idea. That's why I think the article is quite normal.


            I don’t flatter myself, but the “contingent” simply won’t read it. Do you understand?
            The West in the person of the "contingent" graduated from WWII 75 years ago. The Beatles and other Liverpool men began their careers in the clubs of Hamburg. Which was only rebuilt after it was almost completely destroyed by the allied aviation - the children, whose fathers had killed each other yesterday, were hanging out together in the late 50s. And only totalitarian USSR, North. Korea, China continued to wind up - "War, war, war! Do not you dare to forget. Are you dissatisfied with something? Boots, no tights? Communal apartment?" "But the war was. Not happy with the CPSU? - And maybe you don’t respect the victims of the fathers ?. .. "

            And you can hang up your labels “caveman anti-communist”, “demagogue” as much as you like (and what else is there, “class enemy”? - you can see the Bolshevik leaven, the dictionary of “political information”). But in the USSR (as it is today in Russia), the Great Patriotic War was made a propaganda tool to prevent reforms, precisely those people whose horizon of "operational management of the country" does not extend beyond the "level of the average workshop in Soviet times."
            But, even in the CPSU, people saw larger that the USSR was strategically "going wrong" (Lenin with his plans for the NEP, and before the reform plans of Beria or Kosygin). But they were not allowed to liberalize in the USSR, which was political and economic, like Russia today. The result is known - the very “greatest geopolitical catastrophe”.

            ... especially given that the government’s personnel are clearly not the best.


            And where did he get such a composition of the government? - The oligarchs imposed, like Yeltsin? No, Putin "deleted them all" equally (for which he sincerely thanks,
            because, according to all my pocket "manuals of the State Department," the oligarchy is one of the main threats to democracy).
            Or does he have to be a “lame duck” when the government is incapacitated, because it is formed on a coalition basis (“swan cancer and pike,” which is not uncommon in democracies), or even opposition parties in parliament? “Again not.” There are no "parties" in our "no place for discussion".
            We have a government "named after the President-of the Russian Federation-Vladimir-Vladimirovich-Putin" - he assembled it and himself created a system that, like with the councils, does not allow "fresh brains" to rule the country.

            No, the article is weak - not a "state" article.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 24 June 2020 11: 34 New
              +1
              Quote: grumbler
              No, the article is weak - not a "state" article.

              But your entire demagogy about the article and the eaten up egg are not worth it. As for whether Putin’s article will be read in the West, it’s not for you to judge - you’re afraid to admit that it’s just another propaganda step to bring our point of view to the whole world, and this alone was worth publishing in an American publication.
              Quote: grumbler
              We have a government "named after the President-of the Russian Federation-Vladimir-Vladimirovich-Putin" - he assembled it and himself created a system that, like with the councils, does not allow "fresh brains" to rule the country.

              What you personally have is unlikely to concern the vast majority of the country - they believe Putin, and it infuriates you. Do not take it to heart - the dog barks, the caravan goes ...
              1. grumbler
                grumbler 24 June 2020 20: 24 New
                -1
                Finish this senseless bickering. Your arguments boil down to the ten times repeated word “demagogy” and groundless accusations that I “don't understand” something, “I'm afraid,” “infuriates” something.
                Yes, like everyone else I don’t understand much, I’m afraid of something and many things infuriate me. But obviously not what you accuse me of.
                In conclusion, I return your “compliments” to you - the only thing you convinced me of is that you yourself are a typical narrow-minded dogmatic Bolshevik. Than only once again proved the defectiveness of this ideology
                and strengthened me in my beliefs, thank you.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 25 June 2020 12: 19 New
                  +1
                  Quote: grumbler
                  Your arguments

                  Here you have someone else's arguments for a proper assessment:
                  "The British Foreign Ministry commented on Putin's article on World War II"
                  https://news.mail.ru/politics/42262493/
                  Kommersant
                  "The Ambassador of Russia spoke about the reaction of Germany to Putin's article
                  An article by Russian President Vladimir Putin on World War II actively discussed in political, scientific circles and the general public, "RIA Novosti" said the Russian ambassador to Berlin, Sergei Nechaev. "
                  https://news.mail.ru/politics/42319239/?frommail=1
                  Do you need to throw something else, or learn how to use the search engine yourself?
  • Radikal
    Radikal 20 June 2020 22: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: Tank Hard
    Quote: Radikal
    This guy from the video, which Ostashko needs to change his shirt to another ..

    Or maybe you need to change the avatar? wink For, judging by your comment, this Ostashko is a greater supporter of Stalin than you. request

    Firstly, I do not see a logical connection between my avatar and the hero - the author of the video that you posted. winked Secondly, from the content of the video it is obvious that Ostashko is really a big supporter, not just Stalin, but the Guarantor. Respectfully, and see you again for exciting meetings. lol
  • Radikal
    Radikal 20 June 2020 23: 07 New
    +2
    Quote: Tank Hard
    Quote: Radikal
    Really? If you believe the video that you posted, then it looks more like an associate of the Guarantor.

    Well, if you do not agree with his comments, but agree with people like Garry Kasparov, then your avatar, is this apparently such a banter?

    And that there is no alternative anymore? Either agree with Ostashko, or with Kasparov? crying And if I have a third, alternative opinion that does not coincide with the views of the above individuals - then what? wink lol
  • dvv1951
    dvv1951 21 June 2020 02: 00 New
    +1
    There was nowhere but war

    I listened to the order of the young battalion commander:
    We need to take the height before evening.
    The attack of three mouths will be after sunset,
    So fewer people die in the light

    And so when we crawled under the thorn,
    Hiding the maneuver in the coming darkness,
    Sapper blade with long handle
    It touched a stone on frozen ground.

    Then with a battery that's right on the front
    Fell for a few minutes at a knock.
    I knew in my life only school and company
    The war prevented being someone else.

    And so he stayed, covered in a funnel,
    Forever clutching a rotten butt
    I will never confess my love to a girl.
    An incoming shell cut my way

    And from above flowering, songbirds,
    Heavenly blue, sonorous girl laugh
    And I didn’t have to fall in love in this life
    I gave it for the living, for everyone.


    © Copyright: Gennady Malinsky, 2010
  • dvv1951
    dvv1951 21 June 2020 02: 08 New
    -1
    Soviet-German non-aggression pact of 1939. Question of reality
    the existence of a secret supplementary protocol.

    The existence of the protocol was denied by V.M. Molotov until his death in 1986. According to the existing legend, accepted in international relations as truth, an additional protocol was discovered on October 27, 1992 by the former high-ranking CPSU figure Dmitry Antonovich Volkogonov (1928-1995).
    Could there have been a reason for the career Soviet political worker not to love his homeland and make it some kind of muck? Of course. The father was shot in 1937, the mother with three children was exiled to the Irbeysky district of the Krasnoyarsk Territory, where she died in 1947. According to biographical data, Dmitry Volkogonov’s personal archive has been in the Library of Congress since 1996. What Western historians write about this person: “Our main disagreement with you concerns the fundamental issues of the methodology of historical analysis, the goals of research. Your methodological approach seems to us absolutely unlawful, because it is not based on the desire to clarify historical truth, but on an open political conjuncture. leads to the fact that many of your conclusions sound completely unconvincing, and the arguments are accompanied by an incredible amount of errors and even falsifications. (Pierre Brouet, Alexander Pantsov. "An open letter to General D. A. Volkogonov")
    Even with a cursory acquaintance with the material of German photographs (the original of the protocol was not preserved) and with the papers Volkogonov found, a person with good vision can detect:
    1. On the protocol itself and the explanation to it, Molotov's signature is made with a different calligraphic style of writing the letter "t". In writing (protocol) and with a lower stick (clarification). Have you seen that at least one leader changed signatures within 1 minute? In the Molotov signature sample in the encyclopedia and countless documents, the “t” is written with a lower stick.
    2. In the Soviet copy, in the signature of Molotov, there is a dash on top of the capital letter "t". In German, no. All other small details of the text match.
    3. Ribbentrop's signatures clearly do not match the signature model in the encyclopedia. Moreover, they fundamentally differ on the Soviet and German copies in the calligraphic style of the beginning and end of the signature. So in the Soviet Union there is underscore at the end of the signature. In German, no.
    4. In the Soviet copy there is a blot when printing the name of the river "Narew". In German, she is absent. Moreover, the letter “a” induced from above has signs of using a ballpoint pen.
    5. The paperwork itself, especially the lack of imprinted names of officials, gives the impression that they were drawn up in a hurry, on one’s knee. Having access to top-secret documents and working with them while serving in the army, I have never met in the headings of documents of the Secret Plan, the Secret Card, and so on. Just a document was registered and the corresponding stamp was put on it.
    6. Paragraph "4" reads: This protocol will be kept secret by BOTH parties. According to the spelling of the Russian language correctly: "by both sides." The Soviet government did not know the rules of the Russian language? The same error in paragraph 1.
    7. In the phrase “For the German Government, the capital letter“ P ”is written in a different style. Moreover, this can be seen clearly without any effort.
    8. In paragraph two of the phrase "Polish State" the second word is capitalized. According to the rules for spelling proper names and geographical names, it should be small.
    Output. What they give us as an official historical document is very doubtful.