Military Review

The network is surprised by the use of NATO military maps on paper, not on digital tablets

125

The attention of users was attracted by the publication made by the headquarters of the United contingent of the US Army in Europe. The publication says that a special contest for the prize “Fighter of the Year” was held for military personnel. These competitions are held in several “nominations” related to specific specialties (NATO version of the Higher Military Courses).


So, the competition was held for military personnel of the American and European units of the Russian Chemical Forces Defense, communications, intelligence units, etc.

The reports said that the fighters demonstrated skills in using new weapons, systems and weapons, as well as modern tactics and techniques.

American users, evaluating the publication of the US Army command, are sneering at the combination of words about “modern means” and a photograph of a fighter who makes notes on a regular topographic map — on paper — using a NATO version of the engineering (“officer”) line with a conventional pen.

In the comments of users, it is noted that hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent from the means of taxpayers on the maintenance of the American army, the latest weapon and equipment, and the military, instead of previously advertised military tablets with wide functionality, still use ordinary cards on paper.

Web comment with surprise and some annoyance:

They talked about super-secure digital tablets, which the enemy could not get information from even when a military tablet fell into his hands. And what we see: again topographic maps on paper. He will make notes on it. The enemy can gain access to this information, for example, if the unit loses this fighter. And information can already be used by the enemy in his interests.

Judging by these statements, the States are fully confident in the reliability of digital devices, including on the battlefield.
Photos used:
Twitter / US Department of Defense (US Army in Europe)
125 comments
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  1. Molox
    Molox 18 June 2020 18: 44 New
    39
    They feel what will happen in the old fashioned way and in compasses .. Amers laudable!
    Satellites and other things are all temporary, but if you really fight, then you will have to remember even the Morse Code and even the flags of the team .. hi Hopefully we won’t bring the world into confrontation .. Do not anger Russia and everything will be fine!
    1. Evdokim
      Evdokim 18 June 2020 18: 59 New
      17
      Quote: Molox
      They feel what will happen in the old fashioned way and in compasses ..

      But what about. Compass, sextant, spyglass will not shut off any EW. Yes, and charge all these devices like, from a birch or something? good
      1. Peter is not the first
        Peter is not the first 18 June 2020 21: 07 New
        +7
        The fact that military devices sometimes stop working at the right time, the Americans prompted the Ukrainians, they just as soon as they see the equipment of the Russian army in the Donbass, so immediately the batteries on the phones are discharged.
        1. Belimbai
          Belimbai 19 June 2020 06: 15 New
          +2
          That telephones ... some "environmentalists" came up with the idea of ​​electric tanks ... electric cars are good ...
      2. Michael67
        Michael67 19 June 2020 01: 54 New
        11
        Evdokim, I'm sorry, I'll correct it - "sextant". Navigation mechanical device. Speak correctly, comrades. Back in 1986, when I was a cadet, our navigator practice teacher, Ph. 2 r. Chernenko said: "When all radio beacons, CU satellites and other electronic sacrament go out, what will you grab hold of, comrade cadets? That's right, the good old sextant and tables." And he chased us like the damned bobby. I still remember this science.
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 18 June 2020 19: 01 New
      11
      Any KNOWLEDGE, SKILL, is POWER!
      Surely they also understand this at the headquarters !!! Not everyone's brains are digitized.
      It is commendable, but it must be taken as a warning !!!
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 18 June 2020 19: 28 New
        19
        Quote: rocket757
        Surely they also understand this at the headquarters !!! Everyone's brains are not digitized

        When I was preparing for Shooting, I used a programmable calculator, yielding the result four times faster than the standard, the colonel spotted this thing, and mocked it at all. After three days in the trenches, under fire, I will look at you and your calculator ... On self-training, I had to train for two hours on oral counting ... it helped for a lifetime!
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 18 June 2020 19: 39 New
          16
          A ballistic computer improves and speeds up a lot of things, no question!
          But stand in the store with a calculator and recount the check. as it’s not everyone wants ... but when you have time to calculate the CHECK at the cashier, it’s both training and USEFUL on finances. Convinced more than once soldier
          1. akinfeeffr
            akinfeeffr 18 June 2020 20: 31 New
            +5
            I agree. I also train good
          2. Civil
            Civil 18 June 2020 20: 46 New
            +4
            Quote: rocket757
            A ballistic computer improves and speeds up a lot of things, no question!
            But stand in the store with a calculator and recount the check. as it’s not everyone wants ... but when you have time to calculate the CHECK at the cashier, it’s both training and USEFUL on finances. Convinced more than once soldier

            We must also begin, a smart decision.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 18 June 2020 21: 05 New
              +2
              There are quick counting techniques, it helps a lot! Try it, it helps in many cases, not only in the store.
          3. not main
            not main 18 June 2020 22: 12 New
            +1
            Quote: rocket757
            A ballistic computer improves and speeds up a lot of things, no question!
            But stand in the store with a calculator and recount the check. as it’s not everyone wants ... but when you have time to calculate the CHECK at the cashier, it’s both training and USEFUL on finances. Convinced more than once soldier

            That's for sure! Even after paying in cash, the change was said before the saleswoman voiced it. And nobody canceled the score in the mind! And by the way it is very useful and informative!
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 18 June 2020 22: 37 New
              +3
              Everything would be fine, but the font is now used like that, oh, oh. If dusk is not so easy to consider .... age however, eyesight is no longer right or arms are short.
              It is necessary in advance, to count everything on the product, where it is possible to consider.
        2. neri73-r
          neri73-r 19 June 2020 08: 53 New
          +2
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          After three days in the trenches, under fire, I will look at you and your calculator ... On self-training, I had to train for two hours on oral counting ... it helped for a lifetime!

          Knowledge is power, as I explain to children, I don’t understand. It comes to the slaughter when I take these phones off.
    3. demo
      demo 18 June 2020 19: 56 New
      +6
      The satellite can be destroyed, the battery can be shortened or discharged, and what to do next?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 18 June 2020 21: 08 New
        +1
        Suppose, and "brains" can be turned off .... but then nothing will bother you at all!
      2. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 19 June 2020 00: 05 New
        +9
        Quote: demo
        The satellite can be destroyed, the battery can be shortened or discharged, and what to do next?

        Once I here already gave one real example from life - We had one junior opera, who was one of the first to acquire a navigator and believed in this pribluda so much that he rejected the compass completely. Since in the North the bulk of men are fond of hunting, this occupation was not alien to him, and therefore, on one of the days free from service, he took a gun and 2 hound dogs, and left for the taiga to hunt for wild food. When at the set time he did not appear on the threshold of his house, his faithful wife gave an alarm signal, according to the results of which search groups were formed, which went in search of him and combed the supposed place of his "safari" for two days and gave noise signals. On the third day he got out on his own, badly bitten by local bloodsuckers and having lost one of the two available dogs, greatly disappointed in the purchased gadget, in which, as it turned out, corny, the batteries had run out. Since then, the compass in his backpack has been permanently registered.
        1. demo
          demo 19 June 2020 07: 19 New
          +6
          At the age of 15, I dug up a book in the barn of a neighbor's house - "In the world of landmarks."
          Although I was born and raised in a large city, I had an interest in wildlife.
          I read it cover to cover five times.
          He began to understand at least something in orientation in the forest, in the tundra, in the fields, i.e. where life brought.
          Even being in China, not understanding the meaning of a single hieroglyph, not knowing anything but three words in Chinese, I could calmly walk around the 9 millionth city, knowing where my apartment is.
          It came in handy.
    4. Marconi41
      Marconi41 18 June 2020 20: 17 New
      +6
      Quote: Molox
      They feel what will happen in the old fashioned way and in compasses .. Amers laudable!

      No! Not commendable! They all train on tablets only, and pick up and burn cards at the request of the American public! But when the electricity on the battlefield ends, then let them regret it.
    5. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 18 June 2020 20: 29 New
      +5
      Quote: Molox
      They feel what will happen in the old fashioned way and in compasses .. Amers laudable!

      And what are we, "soup with bast shoes"? If something happens, God forbid, of course, to use our stealth bomber in Europe!

      And let the American Patriots rest!
      1. seregatara1969
        seregatara1969 18 June 2020 20: 58 New
        +2
        On such a fly under any bridge and between the skyscrapers in the city. And how exactly the landmines lays down - finally a legend
    6. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 18 June 2020 21: 47 New
      -2
      Quote: Molox
      Commendable amers!

      But is it worth praising a potential adversary for this? Let your brains float with fat from all sorts of trendy digital stuff. It will be easier for our ...
  2. Egoza
    Egoza 18 June 2020 18: 44 New
    -3
    Tyu! Paper will endure everything, but a tablet .... how to say. And if so they "care" about secrecy. You can throw misinformation on paper, but not on tablets? The state of the military is doing very badly
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 18 June 2020 19: 04 New
      +5
      Quote: Egoza
      It’s a very bad thing for the state military

      This is not the point, because the ability to use ordinary cards is a must for all officers of the American army. At least that was the case during the Cold War. As for the tablet with maps, this is not so bad, because if necessary, they can be torn out and glued with a tape, and you get a large map on which you can plot the situation down to the connections. So only those who do not know that the tablet can be damaged in the field can laugh at the paper map, and you will be tortured with recharging if you have to act as part of a reconnaissance group, not to mention the weight of the tablet and other delights such as working at -30C.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 June 2020 19: 18 New
        +8
        Quote: ccsr
        glue together and get a big card

        Not on your nelly. Only glue.
        And tape sometimes reinforce the folds. On the back side.
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 18 June 2020 19: 51 New
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          Quote: ccsr
          glue together and get a big card

          Not on your nelly. Only glue.
          And tape sometimes reinforce the folds. On the back side.

          It is clear that the adhesive tape on the front side is nonsense laughing But adhesive tape was strengthened not by folds, but by gluing places, like. The back of course laughing drinks
          1. Ilya-spb
            Ilya-spb 18 June 2020 21: 36 New
            +3
            You all the secrets now tell the probable enemy!)))
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 18 June 2020 21: 41 New
              +2
              Quote: Ilya-spb
              You all the secrets now tell the probable enemy!)))

              Wow, damn it, how I got excited! repeat
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 June 2020 22: 26 New
            0
            Quote: Doliva63
            But adhesive tape was strengthened not by folds, but by gluing places, like. On the flip side of course laughing


            Not. Everything is already thick there ...
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 18 June 2020 22: 39 New
              0
              Quote: Spade
              Quote: Doliva63
              But adhesive tape was strengthened not by folds, but by gluing places, like. On the flip side of course laughing


              Not. Everything is already thick there ...

              It’s thick, but the tape is wider laughing But each monastery has its own charter, you must agree. You fold the map along the route of movement. But the map is very large - I left the route due to a forced detour, it must be "folded" - no tape will be enough laughing
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 18 June 2020 22: 46 New
                0
                Quote: Doliva63
                It’s thick, but the tape is wider

                Not a fact.
                Even if wider, then quite a bit.
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 18 June 2020 23: 13 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  Quote: Doliva63
                  It’s thick, but the tape is wider

                  Not a fact.
                  Even if wider, then quite a bit.

                  How many "cut" cards are there - 1-2 cm? And the scotch tape is 4 cm. In general, who was taught how. Although the school did not teach us this at all - there was no scotch tape then laughing
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 19 June 2020 11: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          Not on your nelly. Only glue.

          You have carefully studied their tablet cards, which are shown in the photograph of the article. It was on the Soviet maps that there were large fields and by trimming one part, it was possible to fit the slices and glue them securely together. This will not work here, that’s why only a connection is possible on the reverse side.
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  4. Cowbra
    Cowbra 18 June 2020 18: 48 New
    -2
    The striped troops are already glowing in the radio and EM-band because of the "devices" hung on each donkey, you don't need to look for them, and don't care about the weather.
  5. sabakina
    sabakina 18 June 2020 18: 50 New
    -4
    I saw little military maps, but a map in the form of a notepad ..... recourse
    1. Cowbra
      Cowbra 18 June 2020 18: 59 New
      0
      Yes, good. I poked a finger on the page - the cursor did not appear ... I tore it off - crushed it - and for the job)))
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 18 June 2020 19: 08 New
      +1
      Vyacheslav soldier
      Have you seen a lot of impressive military maps?
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 18 June 2020 19: 12 New
        -2
        Vitya. We are like you are not the first year. Secondly, only ours saw the cards. Thirdly, in my childhood I drew a map of my area (and where did I get it?) And I did not have two double sheets of a simple notebook. wink
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 18 June 2020 19: 33 New
          0
          Vyacheslav, I’m so used to it, they taught me that.
          I saw impressive cards a couple of times, from smugglers left. Consider the same, but you need to get used to them ... ours are more convenient, more familiar. once got flight cards ...
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 18 June 2020 20: 03 New
            +5
            Quote: rocket757
            Vyacheslav, I’m so used to it, they taught me that.
            I saw impressive cards a couple of times, from smugglers left. Consider the same, but you need to get used to them ... ours are more convenient, more familiar. once got flight cards ...

            Previously, the Yankees and NATO in general didn’t differ much from ours. In any case, the ones that we studied and that I saw with the Yankees and Tommies in the GSVG.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 18 June 2020 20: 26 New
              +1
              The same thing, memories from very, very distant times.
        2. Molox
          Molox 18 June 2020 19: 39 New
          +3
          Quote: sabakina
          Thirdly, in my childhood I drew a map of my area (and where did I get it?) And I didn’t have two double sheets of a simple notebook

          Also painted and quite good .. good
          Previously, in the schools of the USSR there were such contour maps, etc. and in institutes topography also provided the basis .. Now I don’t know.
          Soviet education was the best in the world, any student had the basic foundations in everything, and even more so in the institutes. Oh, there was the time Vyacheslav, thank you for reminding me (I started to remember .. !!!!!)))
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 June 2020 19: 12 New
      +2
      Quote: sabakina
      I saw little military maps, but a notepad map ..

      ?
      Normal map.
      And the fact that the top is not a notebook spring, but a ruler

      By the way, quite comfortable. Our almost analogue is bigger.
      Apparently, the fighter in the photograph removes the rectangular coordinates from the map.
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 19 June 2020 11: 40 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        By the way, quite comfortable. Our almost analogue is bigger.

        Someone may be surprised, but Westerners have always willingly exchanged our officer lines due to their versatility. So our officers' line was considered a good gift for the foreign military - I heard this from the "missionaries".
  6. businessv
    businessv 18 June 2020 18: 58 New
    +5
    with an ordinary pen, makes notes on an ordinary topographic map - on paper - using the NATO version of the engineering ("officer") line.
    Well, even though he doesn’t hold a pen with his fist, as minke whales show in the chronicles! Well, and about secrecy - it’s easier to devour a card (burn) than a tablet! (joke!) repeat
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 18 June 2020 20: 06 New
      +5
      Quote: businessv
      with an ordinary pen, makes notes on an ordinary topographic map - on paper - using the NATO version of the engineering ("officer") line.
      Well, even though he doesn’t hold a pen with his fist, as minke whales show in the chronicles! Well, and about secrecy - it’s easier to devour a card (burn) than a tablet! (joke!) repeat

      For marking "with an ordinary pen" on the map, he would have received a melon laughing
      1. Michael67
        Michael67 19 June 2020 02: 06 New
        +2
        Yes sir. And not just pumpkin. For nefig public property muck. After all, there is a pencil and an eraser ... Well, stupid ...
  7. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 18 June 2020 19: 05 New
    -1
    even I put a grid on the navigator in the sea, you score two extreme points, then you pass between them with a spinner and here it is, and these Papuans.
  8. Thrifty
    Thrifty 18 June 2020 19: 05 New
    -1
    A man slept, in this photo it is clear that he is an agent from Russia lol since it is "analog" it works the old fashioned way good
    1. Mouse
      Mouse 18 June 2020 19: 11 New
      +2
      he is an agent from Russia

      If there was a Russian agent, I would make notes with a simple pencil ... wassat trouble-free thing! wink
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 June 2020 19: 22 New
        +4
        Quote: Mouse
        Would a Russian agent

        I would use a compass and a chord angle meter. Russian agents are aware that this is more accurate.
        1. Mouse
          Mouse 18 June 2020 19: 27 New
          0
          Curvimeter in stock .... yes
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 18 June 2020 19: 39 New
            +6
            Curvimeter is for another.
            Here, obviously, the coordinates are removed from the map.

            And in this case, a chord angle meter with a compass is the most accurate option.
            Specialized solutions like this American line or our artillery circle are less accurate.
            A normal officer's line is even worse, but "within the limits", although they were not advised to use them at the Department of Topogeodesy and AIR. But this is about a normal ruler, and not that thick porous, which some people try to pass off as it.
            Well, the worst option is the usual ruler, although you can achieve accuracy higher than that of the officer and the circle, but you need to be able to.
            1. Mouse
              Mouse 18 June 2020 19: 46 New
              -2
              Stock pocket does not pull ... wink
              Fully armed ... so to speak ... yes
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 18 June 2020 19: 50 New
                +1
                Stock of brains should be, this is important. And a stock of skills.
                Gunners are still taught to use the slide rule
                1. Mouse
                  Mouse 18 June 2020 20: 14 New
                  -1
                  I look ... You take everything so seriously .... I'm sorry, if that ...
                  But what is the news, such are the comments ...
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 18 June 2020 22: 33 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Mouse
                    I look ... You take everything so seriously .... I'm sorry, if that ...

                    Nothing serious.
                    Honestly, I’m rather kidding from smart people whose words in the article lead.
                2. Malyuta
                  Malyuta 18 June 2020 22: 46 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Spade
                  Stock of brains should be, this is important. And a stock of skills.
                  Gunners are still taught to use the slide rule

                  How else? What is wrong here?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 18 June 2020 22: 52 New
                    0
                    Quote: Malyuta
                    How else? What is wrong here?

                    Many believe that this is "unnecessary antiquity"

                    By the way, calculators are not forbidden to use. Rather, on the contrary, we, for example, were taught programming for them. You just always have to be prepared that the teacher will select it while solving practical problems.
            2. Doliva63
              Doliva63 18 June 2020 20: 10 New
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              Curvimeter is for another.
              Here, obviously, the coordinates are removed from the map.

              And in this case, a chord angle meter with a compass is the most accurate option.
              Specialized solutions like this American line or our artillery circle are less accurate.
              A normal officer's line is even worse, but "within the limits", although they were not advised to use them at the Department of Topogeodesy and AIR. But this is about a normal ruler, and not that thick porous, which some people try to pass off as it.
              Well, the worst option is the usual ruler, although you can achieve accuracy higher than that of the officer and the circle, but you need to be able to.

              I would prefer a ruler (any) and a pencil drinks
              1. Camel
                Camel 18 June 2020 22: 32 New
                +1
                Comrade, but do not tell me what is the difference? I'm talking about the usual line and the officer, well, about the artillery. Itself only in a tourist club dealt with topography, there was enough compass (on the side goes) ruler. No offense, just interesting.
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 18 June 2020 22: 42 New
                  0
                  Quote: Camel
                  Comrade, but do not tell me what is the difference? I'm talking about the usual line and the officer, well, about the artillery. Itself only in a tourist club dealt with topography, there was enough compass (on the side goes) ruler. No offense, just interesting.

                  Whose address is the question?
                  1. Camel
                    Camel 18 June 2020 22: 45 New
                    0
                    In yours (Doliva63). True, I wonder what caused this attitude to specialized measuring pieces. He himself looked always with reverence, for he did not understand even half of their functions.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 18 June 2020 22: 53 New
                      0
                      Quote: Camel
                      True, I wonder what caused this attitude to specialized measuring pieces.

                      They didn’t have to shoot the coordinates with such accuracy as we did.
                      1. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 18 June 2020 23: 27 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Quote: Camel
                        True, I wonder what caused this attitude to specialized measuring pieces.

                        They didn’t have to shoot the coordinates with such accuracy as we did.

                        And what is your accuracy at a range of 100 - 300 km? This was our "regular" depth of work.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 18 June 2020 23: 43 New
                        0
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        This was our "regular" depth of work.

                        And the artillerymen checked the GKU equipment for you for beer?
                      3. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 18 June 2020 23: 48 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        This was our "regular" depth of work.

                        And the artillerymen checked the GKU equipment for you for beer?

                        What is GKU? If something useful, and beer is not sorry laughing But the gunners to our work no side at all.
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 19 June 2020 07: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        What is GKU?

                        Navigation equipment. Type TNA-1, TNA-2, TNA-3
                        And the gyrocompass on the BRM-1K is also, in most cases, a dark forest.

                        Quote: Doliva63
                        But the gunners to our work no side at all.

                        That is, the equipment was not turned on at all?
                      5. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 20 June 2020 21: 43 New
                        0
                        TNA - I understand, but what is GKU, nevertheless?
                        They used the navigation equipment themselves, why should someone be involved? Do you think intelligence is dumber than gunners? laughing When we "worked" along the front edge, we often competed with your brother - here you need an air benchmark, here - according to the opposite, etc., we won these games more often laughing Probably our horizons were wider laughing drinks
                      6. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 20 June 2020 22: 24 New
                        0
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        and what is GKU, nevertheless?

                        Gyrocurric pointer.

                        Quote: Doliva63
                        Do you think intelligence is dumber than gunners?

                        Good question... laughing
                        For example, I have never seen a scout teach artillerymen to use a gyrocompass

                        Quote: Doliva63
                        here you need an air benchmark,

                        laughing An air raiser is like replacing valves through an exhaust pipe.
                        Useful only to fill up the test.

                        Quote: Doliva63
                        here - on the contrary, etc., we won these games more often

                        Reverse rappers do not exist
                      7. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 20 June 2020 22: 54 New
                        +1
                        "Reverse benchmarks do not exist"
                        And when is the landmark behind you - what's the name? I left the army in the 91st, I am excusable laughing drinks
                      8. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 21 June 2020 07: 23 New
                        0
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        And when is the landmark behind you - what is it called?

                        This is called the landmark behind you laughing
                        The benchmark is not a guide. This is a point on the ground, real (real) or virtual (dummy reference)
                      9. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 21 June 2020 20: 51 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Quote: Doliva63
                        And when is the landmark behind you - what is it called?

                        This is called the landmark behind you laughing
                        The benchmark is not a guide. This is a point on the ground, real (real) or virtual (dummy reference)

                        A point on the terrain (benchmark) with known coordinates - can not be a guide, is it? And often not coordinates, but an angle are required. And then, for example, the landmark behind and to your right, when you know the angle on it, can become a reference point. This was called the reverse benchmark, like laughing
                    2. ccsr
                      ccsr 21 June 2020 09: 40 New
                      0
                      Quote: Doliva63
                      And when is the landmark behind you - what is it called?

                      It was simply necessary to say that the visible landmarks of the enemy on our part are not at all those that the scouts determine in the depths of the enemy’s territory, and which are visually impossible to determine without aviation or satellite reconnaissance.
                    3. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 21 June 2020 21: 02 New
                      0
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Quote: Doliva63
                      And when is the landmark behind you - what is it called?

                      It was simply necessary to say that the visible landmarks of the enemy on our part are not at all those that the scouts determine in the depths of the enemy’s territory, and which are visually impossible to determine without aviation or satellite reconnaissance.

                      No, we are here about the work of "laces" on the landmarks from our side. And the reconnaissance groups, of course, have their own, and even then they change as the region or mission changes. Apparently, that is why spotters and aircraft controllers were invented, although normal reconnaissance can do all this on its own.
  9. Doliva63
    Doliva63 18 June 2020 23: 08 New
    0
    Quote: Camel
    In yours (Doliva63). True, I wonder what caused this attitude to specialized measuring pieces. He himself looked always with reverence, for he did not understand even half of their functions.

    The artillery / officer / commander lines have no direct relation to movement / orientation on the map. They are used in the army, because. there are no others in the "packing" of the commander's bag. But there are actually enough of them. I, frankly, have long forgotten their direct purpose, tk. served where they, in fact, were not needed. Better ask Lopatov - he will tell you everything in an academic way drinks
    1. Camel
      Camel 18 June 2020 23: 28 New
      0
      Thank you for the tip. drinks
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 June 2020 23: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Doliva63
      The artillery / officer / commander line does not have a direct relationship to movement / orientation on the map.

      ??
      Unless if you navigate without coordinates.
    3. Doliva63
      Doliva63 18 June 2020 23: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Spade
      Quote: Doliva63
      The artillery / officer / commander line does not have a direct relationship to movement / orientation on the map.

      ??
      Unless if you navigate without coordinates.

      Explain your idea, please.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 19 June 2020 11: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: Camel
    No offense, just interesting.

    I’ll just answer you - when the situation needs to be put on a map, where there are dozens of different designations, it is easier to do this with our officer line, and most importantly do not bother with the sizes of flags and other rubbish.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 20 June 2020 21: 47 New
      0
      Quote: ccsr
      Quote: Camel
      No offense, just interesting.

      I’ll just answer you - when the situation needs to be put on a map, where there are dozens of different designations, it is easier to do this with our officer line, and most importantly do not bother with the sizes of flags and other rubbish.

      A colleague, an officer line is an artifact. Have you seen a lot of working cards of group commanders with the designations marked with them?
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 21 June 2020 09: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: Doliva63
        Have you seen a lot of working cards of group commanders with the designations marked with them?

        I did not mean this contingent of officers, but those who work at the level of the headquarters of formations and above. This does not apply to group commanders; naturally they cannot have such cards by definition. But the head of the PA brigade has a rather voluminous map in terms of the number of signs applied.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 18 June 2020 22: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Doliva63
    I would prefer a ruler (any) and a pencil

    We were drunk on accuracy.
    So chordoglomer ...
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 18 June 2020 22: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      Quote: Doliva63
      I would prefer a ruler (any) and a pencil

      We were drunk on accuracy.
      So chordoglomer ...

      And we stamped our feet. Accuracy was needed, of course, but it was not particularly reflected on the route, it depended on many external factors. Another thing, when it was necessary to determine the coordinates of the target, for example. Then you take the maximum scale and the officer line, there was nothing else. laughing
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 18 June 2020 23: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Doliva63
        And we stamped our feet.

        We, too.
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 18 June 2020 23: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          Quote: Doliva63
          And we stamped our feet.

          We, too.

          I hope they stomped in one direction - "to study military science in a real way!" laughing drinks
  • 3vs
    3vs 18 June 2020 19: 11 New
    +3
    American users, evaluating the publication of the US Army command, are sneering at the combination of words about “modern means” and a photograph of a fighter who makes notes on a regular topographic map — on paper — using a NATO version of the engineering (“officer”) line with a conventional pen.

    Fools, they don’t understand anything!

  • TAMBU
    TAMBU 18 June 2020 19: 23 New
    0
    and also on the net the popular opinion that the Earth is flat ... never mind deb ... off
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 June 2020 19: 44 New
      +5
      Quote: TAMBU
      and also on the net the popular opinion that the Earth is flat ... never mind deb ... off

      You will laugh, but the military perceives it just like that. Flat. For convenience laughing
      1. TAMBU
        TAMBU 18 June 2020 22: 03 New
        +1
        except Strategic Missile Forces and VKS =)
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 June 2020 22: 23 New
          +1
          Quote: TAMBU
          except Strategic Missile Forces and VKS =)

          Strategic Missile Forces - maybe. And the videoconferencing seems to be also flat

          And, for example, SV rockets should also take into account the fact that the Earth is not flat. But they are cunning, for simplicity imagined that it looks like a faceted glass. And just recalculate the coordinates from one zone to another. laughing
          1. TAMBU
            TAMBU 18 June 2020 22: 34 New
            0
            ... she looks like a faceted glass.

            That's how we live))
      2. mmaxx
        mmaxx 19 June 2020 04: 39 New
        +1
        Yes, here's a dog, you glue a 6 by 6 card, and it becomes spherical. Then you’ll get tired of folding. Doesn't add up. So it turns out that the earth is still round.
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 19 June 2020 11: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        You will laugh, but the military perceives it just like that. Flat. For convenience

        I don’t know who they think, but it is necessary to take into account the curvature of the Earth when propagating radio waves and also during visual reconnaissance of the enemy, which is why balloons were used in the First World War.
  • iouris
    iouris 18 June 2020 19: 25 New
    +2
    Right now, the military will recognize the road.
    How did you guess?
    And, you see, Ohvitser laid out a paper card.
  • Old26
    Old26 18 June 2020 19: 36 New
    +3
    Well, the comments in the American press are not of great intelligence. As the proverb says - "Trust in Allah, but tie the camel." You can equip the army with ultra-modern instruments and equipment, but the fighter must be able to use such archaic from the American point of view, like ordinary paper maps. For the last few years, since 2015, I have often had to go on business trips in such a region as the North Caucasus. And although I always had a tablet with me, the bag also contained paper maps of the region as an alternative. And God himself ordered to have an alternative in the army.
  • Yarhann
    Yarhann 18 June 2020 19: 41 New
    +3
    not a smart person and with a navigator in three pines get lost, everyone is doing the right thing. Orienteering by map and compass will show who cooks the pot
  • Ingenegr
    Ingenegr 18 June 2020 19: 44 New
    +4
    It is clear from the article that there are far from Downs in the Pentagon. Yes, network-centric wars. Yes, computerization and tabletization. Yes, ZAS and Link-16. But at the same time, they teach “old-fashioned” methods, because they know that even a “button press” must understand the principles by which gadgets work. And for this, you need to work with pencils, a ruler and a map - these are the principles passed through your own brains and hands. Are remembered for a long time.
  • Campanella
    Campanella 18 June 2020 19: 50 New
    -3
    Anyway, the Americans will get burned somewhere, not with a tablet, so with toilet paper, not with paper, so with socks or a grub. All these games for a couple of weeks of war in comfortable conditions. And in real life, exercises for survival should be.)))
  • NordUral
    NordUral 18 June 2020 20: 00 New
    +1
    And who said that satellites are eternal?
  • seacap
    seacap 18 June 2020 20: 05 New
    +3
    And so, we still use artillery firing tables of 42 g of the projectile, and the mountain ones were completely of the 39th, they didn’t get worse from this, I wonder how to use a ruler or a curvimeter on the tablet (who knows respect), yes , and who knows where in the mountains of Afghanistan (for example), which whistleblower sells batteries, which are also needed for NVD with sights, to carry along plus everything, such an activity, for an amateur, by the way, in the West we love our cards and on every occasion, they are used. In space, there is nothing better than a good old slate pencil.
    1. Avior
      Avior 18 June 2020 22: 00 New
      -5
      This is a famous myth.
      In fact, Fisher’s fountain pens are used in space.
      They can write at any angle and in zero gravity.
      These pens are in modern versions.
      http://www.spacepen.ru/
      This is specifically a space series
      http://www.spacepen.ru/catalog/ballpen/collection_astronaut/
      The price is about fifty dollars.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2020 22: 27 New
        +4
        Quote: Avior
        The price is about fifty dollars.

        and a simple pencil - 3 rubles, as they say, feel the difference
        1. Avior
          Avior 18 June 2020 22: 32 New
          0
          Everything is expensive in space
          A simple pencil crumbles and can enter the respiratory system, so everything is not easy there.
          While Fisher did not offer his pen, either for free, or for a penny for advertising purposes, many tried
          But for a long time already everyone uses these pens, there are many of them and are not needed.
          They write under water, with a wide range of temperatures and so on.
          They are not pure for space
        2. Buchenland
          Buchenland 19 June 2020 01: 52 New
          +1
          A simple pencil in zero gravity is a potential evil, the lead is crumbling
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 June 2020 22: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: seacap
      And so, we still use artillery firing tables of 42 g of the military base, and the mountain tables are completely of the 39th, they didn’t get any worse

      What tools are these?
      Shooting tables may not be older than the weapons for which they are compiled.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 18 June 2020 23: 42 New
        -1
        and the mountains did the 39th
        Is the 76-mm mountain gun of 1938 or 1958 still in service?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 19 June 2020 07: 13 New
          0
          Quote: Undecim
          Really 76-mm mountain gun sample 1938

          It seems not.
          At least I have never met even as a substitute
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 19 June 2020 07: 14 New
            -1
            And why then the shooting tables of 1939 apply?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 19 June 2020 07: 29 New
              +3
              I do not know.
              Legends are city.
              When I was studying at the school, the teachers made fun of the marines, "Whoever learns disgustingly will not go to the Crimea, but to the Far East. And there he will use the Shooting tables on bronze, in versts and fathoms."
              Apparently, here it is similar.
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 18 June 2020 20: 06 New
    -2
    The more they believe in electronics, the better. There have already been situations when they wandered without a police officer, having both compasses and maps.
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 18 June 2020 20: 46 New
    0
    The tablet may malfunction or run out of power. There is nothing better than good old paper and a pencil, well, of course the compass))
  • Slipper 2
    Slipper 2 18 June 2020 20: 48 New
    +1
    It’s right to understand, to calculate data on paper without flimsy devices, in war everything can be
  • bk0010
    bk0010 18 June 2020 21: 07 New
    0
    Strange people. This card is a reporting document. One of, for decision. What is the use of such a card in electronic form? Still have to print.
    And if the contest on manual work with cards, then it is impossible to print.
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 18 June 2020 21: 19 New
    0
    It's time to uncover the slide rule.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2020 22: 05 New
    0
    What's the problem?!!
    you need to prepare for the worst
  • CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 18 June 2020 22: 31 New
    -2
    Probably, they are definitely preparing for a war with us, if I also learn to plot the azimuth route using a protractor and to determine the exact place in the square by the snail, I'll take off my hat to a potential enemy!
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 18 June 2020 23: 53 New
    +1
    IMHO, sucked from a finger.
    If the "Fighter of the Year", then just in the cards should understand
  • Domestic cat
    Domestic cat 19 June 2020 00: 31 New
    0
    If there is no paste in the pen that the NATO uses, then he will have to write with his finger. The most reliable thing is a simple pencil, and even better an old chemical one that will not be erased and sharpen it for two seconds
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 19 June 2020 02: 43 New
    +1
    You can never put a finger on the screen so neatly as with a pen on a topographic map ..
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 19 June 2020 12: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Angry 55
      You can never put a finger on the screen so neatly as with a pen on a topographic map ..

      I didn’t see the situation on the screen, but I notice that indeed the cards in large headquarters, which were made by officers and conscripts helping them, came out as works of art - the hand of the master was immediately visible. By the way, the NATO team used transparent plastic, which was superimposed on the card, to reduce the consumption of cards, and the situation for exercises was applied on it with a thin felt-tip pen. After they were finished, it was easily removed with a cloth moistened with some kind of liquid, and to be honest, we envied that we didn’t have this. But it was in the GSVG, now of course everything has gone far ahead and probably such grandfather's tricks are no longer used.
  • 1536
    1536 19 June 2020 12: 58 New
    -1
    Isn't this a new "electronic gadget" - a paper called a "notebook" from the company "Trumpus-Duper"? Or are Russian "jammers" so frightening that the Brandenburg-2 division did not dare to switch to Chinese-made tablets, so as not to get lost in the network of new roads and railways in Central Russia?
    One thing is clear: in military affairs no one will ever cancel topography and nothing will replace.
  • Normal ok
    Normal ok 19 June 2020 13: 15 New
    -1
    Personally, I learned to count shooting using a PUOD and several tables, using a pencil and an artillery ruler. And (the end of the 80s) the MK programmable calculator !!)) But at the same time he was surprised in a good way by the fact that today shooting is actually considered on a tablet. The main thing is not to forget old skills.
  • NF68
    NF68 19 June 2020 18: 01 New
    0
    It does not interfere.
  • Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 20 June 2020 13: 45 New
    0
    I recall the immortal Zadornov with his story about pens for astronauts.
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