Turkey does not exclude the possibility of buying Russian Be-200 amphibious aircraft

Be-200 at the TEKNOFEST-2019 in Istanbul

Ankara is considering the purchase of Russian Be-200 amphibious aircraft, which are currently rented to extinguish fires in Turkey. Such a possibility was announced by Fizuli Mollaev, a member of the board of directors of SMS Savunma Sanayi.

As previously reported, Russia leased two Be-200 aircraft to Turkey to lease fires in the country for four months. A request for assistance came from the Turkish Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry. Russian aircraft, controlled by Russian crews, will be on duty in the vicinity of Antalya, Izmir and Bodrum.

The representative of the Turkish company, which won the fire extinguishing tender, said that they had considered options for leasing aircraft manufactured in Canada and Japan, but the Russian Be-200s "won the competition."

But we were determined to work with Russian aircraft. We saw the Be-200 at the Teknofest-2019 exhibition in Istanbul, compared their potential with other aircraft. The Be-200 was created to save people, infrastructure, that is, it is a multi-purpose machine, which is much better than machines of the same type from other countries

- said Fizuli Mollaev.

According to him, the company intends to test the Be-200 aircraft and, based on their outcome, redeem in the future. At the same time, he emphasized that the option of ordering more Russian aircraft is not ruled out.

We will see how these planes show themselves in Turkey during the forest fire season, and the decision on their purchase will depend on this. With a favorable outcome of the trial period, we are considering in the future the acquisition of more aircraft

- Mollaev told reporters.

Comments

[svp67]

Our plane, yes, Ukrainian engines ... and I would like that we had more of these aircraft, otherwise they were already marked all over the world, and sometimes they themselves have nothing to extinguish forest fires with ...

[credo]

Quote: svp67

Our plane, yes, Ukrainian engines ... and I would like that we had more of these aircraft, otherwise they were already marked all over the world, and sometimes they themselves have nothing to extinguish forest fires with ...

Yes, that's right, until the engines themselves start to produce for these aircraft the issue of sales remains open.
So far, only one option is seen - Turkey’s purchase from Russia of an airplane without engines and Ukraine’s own engines for these aircraft.

[Piramidon]

Quote: credo

Yes, that's right, until the engines themselves start to produce for these aircraft the issue of sales remains open.

We are waiting for PD-10. But for now, the Russian-French SaM146 produced by NPO Saturn will also go.

[figwam]

Quote: Piramidon

We are waiting for PD-10

There and PD-8 planned.

[donavi49]

No.

Turkey and other exports Ukrainian full-time,

And for myself PD-8 after 5 years.

Russian amphibious aircraft Be-200 should be equipped with Russian PD-8 engines, which will be built within five years, said Russian Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade Oleg Bocharov.

With this he confirmed previously announced information that the aircraft will not be equipped with the Russian-French engine SaM146, due to the fact that the Be-200 are included in the defense order, and one of the developers of the engine is part of NATO. The Prohibition of the Prosecutor General of Russia imposed a ban on replacing Ukrainian engines with Russian-French SaM146.

[Zaurbek]

The error in Be200 and SSJ100 is only 1 turbojet engine .... for both, albeit completely western, but alternative engines are needed.

[calm]

Not PD-10, but PD-8. PD-10 is too oversized.
Remotorization of the Be-200ES on SAM146 engines was discontinued at the initiative of the French side.

[Piramidon]

Quote: calm

Not PD-10, but PD-8. PD-10 is too oversized.
Remotorization of the Be-200ES on SAM146 engines was discontinued at the initiative of the French side.

It seems that Saturn intended to completely localize the production of the SAM146.

[bayard]

Quote: credo

only one option is seen - Turkey’s purchase from Russia of an aircraft without engines and from Ukraine the engines themselves for these aircraft.

Rather, Turkey’s purchase from Ukraine of a batch of engines and their transfer to Russia for the ordered aircraft. So far it is only possible.

[TermNachTer]

The engines are very specific, "Motor" produces them one by one, on the basis of 486. Alas, an order for 4 - 6 engines will not save the plant.

[aviator6768]

All right! Any yeroplan, (any) - engines ... Here 136, the former D-36, who made a revolution in the 80s (aw, ignoramus, who opposed it there ??) In Potsdam, they planned a carcass VIP charter, RIV (small. From 235 and 42nd from the Dacons, so they missed the noise of the 42nd ... Did your sp-1, sp-2 ..... Lived in the cabin ... What did you get? Russia ... Now in SEA - 23-25 ​​thousand tanks are paid to the first .. Where are your Peskovy-Chubais ?? Pedics ... Barin - it's time to walk ... A month or two ... They won’t give more, believe the old ..

[KCA]

They want to put SaM-146 on the BE200, a contract for a large number of aircraft is not a quick matter, both engines and the aircraft are adapting

[donavi49]

Already refused, all the money was thrown into PD-8
United Engine Corporation JSC (UEC, part of Rostec) will invest in the development of an import-substituted engine for Sukhoi Superjet and Be-200ChS aircraft in 2019-2024. almost 33 billion rubles., follows from the materials of the public procurement website.

This is an 8-ton engine under the code "PD-8-Saturn". According to the materials, a technical design of the engine should be made in 2021, working design documentation in 2022, technological preparation for the production of prototypes of cruise power plants (MSU) with PD-2023 is planned for 8. In 2024, prototypes of ISU with PD-8 should be made, in the same year it is expected to obtain a type certificate for a new engine.

Russian Be-200 amphibious aircraft should be equipped with Russian PD-8 engines, which will be created within five years, said declared the deputy head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Oleg Bocharov.

RџSЂRё he confirmed the previously announced information that the aircraft will not be equipped with the Russian-French engine SaM146, due to the fact that the Be-200 are included in the defense order, and one of the developers of the engine is part of NATO. The Prohibition of the Prosecutor General of Russia imposed a ban on replacing Ukrainian engines with Russian-French SaM146.

[KCA]

Under the defense order, this is one thing, and if the Turks order as many as 10 aircraft, and in time for 2025? And they also want to eat in Saturn in Rybinsk, they also need to be fed with something, or else on the SSJ PD-8, on the BE200 PD-8, and why did they do the joint venture?

[donavi49]

So 10 aircraft will not pay for engine refinement and onboard certification. It makes sense to put a new engine, if after 5 years again you have to spend a lot of millions on certification only + 33 billion have already swelled into the new engine?

[calm]

The work was stopped precisely on the initiative of the Safran company

[barin]

I think that for Turkey engines for airplanes will be sold, as happened with engines for unfinished frigates pr.11356 for Indians.
I agree that we ourselves need the Be-200 more, but so far there is no engine of our own, alas ...

[aviator6768]

Shovels and cops ... I don’t understand that it’s hard to buy Motorsichevites * ??

[Woodman]

It seems that Ukraine has a ban on the supply of engines for this aircraft. If Russia is ready to produce this aircraft, then either this ban is violated, or there is an alternative.

[TermNachTer]

The aircraft engine has an end-user certificate. If the order is for Turkey, then there will be no problems.

[Civil]

In exchange for what? What the cunning Turk intended.

[Baloo]

Quote: svp67

Our plane, but Ukrainian engines ... and I would like that we had more of these aircraft, otherwise they were already marked all over the world,

I saw a plane at an air show in Gelendzhik-cool awesome bird. Given the length of the maritime borders, it is strange that they will be produced so little. As I understand it, the fuselage can quickly be transformed to carry passengers or transport small cargoes. Respect to the creators. And the engines, yes, it's time to do it yourself

[venik]

Quote: svp67

Our plane, but Ukrainian engines ...

=======
Already put the Russian-French SaM146, and will soon be replaced by a fully Russian PD-8.
In the meantime, on export, and even the Turks - "Motor Sich" (well, the name was invented instead of NPO "Progress" - it can be seen in Ukraine of progress and "does not smell"!) will deliver engines with the deepest pleasure (especially the plant now "lies on its side" due to orders - Western "partners" are in no hurry to buy - there is nowhere to put their products) .....

[Pavel57]

The issue with the engines is not clear. Is that the Turks will buy engines directly from Motor Sich.

[venik]

Quote: Pavel57

The issue with the engines is not clear. Is that the Turks will buy engines directly from Motor Sich.

=======
So it is usually done like that! If the counterparty does not want or cannot supply the manufacturer (exporter) with components, then the order is made through the buyer!

[Maks1995]

And how many are there? And then a couple of weeks they wrote that there are no new engines, and perhaps there will not be.
China allegedly pushing its own into the market, still someone ....

[aviator6768]

Upe (I’ll take my glasses right now) - they ran into the second stage of the compressor ... Well, nothing at all ... CCC ... no blades .... Without engines - zero .... We distributed all sorts of Ukrainians, Kazakhs, balts. ..RUSSIAN - where? Master, forget about the Russians, wipe off the powder! Bear in mind, captain!

[rocket757]

We ourselves would have to procure such equipment in abundance.

[Rubi0]

in order to buy something, you need to sell something, and it is better to sell airplanes and not raw materials

[rocket757]

Schaub, they could sell to someone, this still needs to be done ...

[Mountain shooter]

PD-8 was prepared for the Superjet. Perhaps they will adapt it to the Be-200. Few make them, these Be ... engine development will not pay off on a small series. Now, if the "Superjet" is fitted ... then it will be possible in batches both for yourself and in the turret region.

[slipped]

aircraft assembly

[Iris]

Great plane! Here is a solution for developing a network of medium-haul communications in areas with natural reservoirs. The main area of ​​construction of a conventional airport is runways, aprons and taxiways; for money it is a considerable part of the total project cost. All this is not necessary in the case of a seaplane - it means that only the terminal and the objects of technical services will have to be built. Hence, significant savings in construction time, construction costs and operating costs.

[donavi49]

No. It is more profitable to build the same airport for 1 parking lot and a runway and take normal planes.

Hydroaviation is alive only in a small segment of up to 10 passengers.

You even forgot in this project:
- non-flying weather for such an airport will be much more frequent, which means that a significant% of flights will go to the alternate aerodrome (classic).
- the probability of minor emergency and damage is higher, which means you need to put another hangar for maintenance.
- it is necessary to monitor the water area, to drive away all sorts of fishermen / vacationers and others there, which means people on a salary are needed (whereas even a dispatcher is not needed at the airport, because there are rules for working with airports approved in Russia and the world without dispatch services). .
- very few planes will be accepted, which means the airport will be wildly unprofitable in any case. Plus it’s not possible to accept intermediate / cargo flights.

[Iris]

I agree with the last point unconditionally: yes, such water ports are almost exclusively endpoints. But:
1. Why will non-flying weather be MUCH more often on a medium-sized lake? The take-off limit of the Be-200 at a wave height of ~ 1,2 meters.
2. Why is the probability of damage and emergency higher? Is this a feature of water use? Please explain.
3. The water port area, like the airport area, is supposed to be closed, with visible approaches to the water. Take protection Domodedovo - the number of security personnel is rather big. Even at some airport Gumrak (Volgograd) there are tens of five people. And for the territory closed around the lake this would be quite enough.
That is, with an initially lower commercial load, we still have a significantly lower cost of construction and operation. It is this circumstance (in the conditions of the eternal deficit of regional budgets) that I call a "solution".
PS As for the dispatching service, in my opinion, the rejection of it is a fundamental mistake. I hope that having burned up on the unattended metro service, we understand this.

[donavi49]

1) This is a river / lake - there are much more than any negative effects - like gusts of wind and other things. And by the way, you have to put floating weather beacons - which is also more expensive. Well, and more automation. besides, it will not work to bring the comfort of boarding to a modern airport, and all those systems that will have to be installed (even a banal traffic light and backlight) will come out more expensive both in the base and in maintenance, moreover, significantly. And without proper automation, the minimums for landing / takeoff will float.
2) Yes. Well, for example, the snag came off and flooded dragged into the strip, they flew into it. Or they mowed and hit the wave with a wing float. Well, in general, the mass of everything. Yes, even birds will be a bigger problem than from a regular airport.
3) Well, the body is riding at the aquaport - what should I do? It’s necessary to keep your water police, but it’s expensive. Well, there are a lot of other moments - for example, again, something was torn off with the stream and in the submerged state it was dragged to the aquaport. If this is not noticed, then probably a disaster. So not only visual inspections are needed, but also monitoring of the water layer. In general - again it goes into a bunch of employees and equipment.

In the United States, thousands of airports operate according to the rules of visual entry and reporting. There were disasters, but they are single. At the same time, quite serious cars for 80-100 people come to such airports.

[Iris]

It is likely that you are right .. Without being a certified engineer - especially in the field of air transport - I have no opportunity to argue with reason). For a diploma (MARCHI) wanted to take an aquaport, dissuaded. But the idea is still attractive. And who knows - it is possible that at some stage it will become relevant, because history is developing in a spiral, is not it? Yours faithfully

[Iris]

It was like that ..

[donavi49]

It was, but those days are gone. Airports for seaplane markets also decided on technology. For ordinary aircraft became faster, larger, more efficient than hydro. New systems have appeared that are easier and cheaper to place on the ground, etc.

Now only for small aircraft, all sorts of Sesny / Bombardier / Pipers ..

[Iris]

It's a pity.
But maybe not everything is lost. After all, nobody really dealt with the development of passenger / transport ekranoplanes of large and medium capacity. If the commercial use of such machines becomes profitable, water ports will appear within a couple of years.
Dig a small harbor for loading / anchorage, build a couple of jetties and a "Venetian" defense. Technically - I'm sure - there are no obstacles. The only question is commerce. It should be either a passenger or a transport hub. Theoretically - with its ability to land normally - the Be 200 can solve these issues. Here is the Crimea, for example .. But this, of course, is only in theory.

[Crane]

IMHO a lot of problems with the weather on the water, plus that there will pop up out of the water on a run. Airships, only steampunk.

[Iris]

Steampunk - of braids, cool)) But a seaplane (medium-haul, with a capacity of 30-50 people) is an almost ideal way out, for example, in mountainous terrain and in a natural reservoir.

[Crane]

Are there many lakes in the mountains suitable for such an aircraft as the Be-200?

[Iris]

Not much .. But it is worth weighing the estimated cost of construction: to dig a ditch of small depth and length somewhat larger than that necessary for take-off, is it really expensive? .. Rather, the question is in the sources of water In general, in my opinion, a beautiful engineering idea. Would be suitable for a MIIT diploma))

[Crane]

There are helicopters, convertiplanes. And there’s nothing to invent :)

[Iris]

Of course I have. But passenger capacity is not the same. Which helicopter will take 50 people? A passenger tiltrotor is generally a matter of a probable future ..

[Crane]

Mi-26 with a margin will take.

[Iris]

Indeed, I did not know about it .. Of the arguments, perhaps, only comfort remained. Flying in a turbojet aircraft cannot be compared with flying in a helicopter, and this is important for commercial operation. Well, the range of ~ 500 km is also not a competitor. Still, these are very infrequent (if you take regular) flights from regional airports to the terminals. Immediately I remembered "Mimino"))), sorry)

[Crane]

They flew on the An-2 and did not chug, you see, give them the comfort :)

[Iris]

))) Progress - it is progress in everything: not only in opportunities, but also in needs (in fact, this goes hand in hand).

When it was our turn, Valya’s grandfather grunted and threw a heavy suitcase onto the counter. The suitcase was weighed, and mom said:

- Far to the plane?
“Four hundred meters,” said Red Bogatyr.
“And even all five hundred,” said Black.
“Please help me with the suitcase,” said Mom.
“We have self-service,” said Red.

V. Dragunsky, "The smell of the sky and makhorochka"

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Quote: Crane

Mi-26 with a margin will take.

funny. Have you flown at least on mi 8? The speed is just over 200, the wildest noise and no commercial success. The cost of a flight hour is not less than one hundred seventy thousand rubles, passengers take 20. We divide the amount for each and get 8 rubles for one. And this is at a distance of a maximum of 500 km. And on the 250th, the cost of an hour under half a lyama in general

[Crane]

Well, we are not talking about what is noisy and expensive, but about what is better to use in the mountains and other remote places. And the "cow" as an example of passenger capacity, and as a basis for understanding in what direction aviation can be developed - new economical and powerful engines, soundproofed hermetic showrooms, etc.

[Alexander Seklitsky]

So in the mountains only helicopters remain, there is no alternative .. But with them no commercial efficiency can be achieved, by definition. To fly a helicopter you need to spend sooo much energy.

[Ros 56]

There are no Ukrainian engines, there are Soviet ones, possibly with modernization. And what, we don’t have any replacement engines at all?

[Bear040]

At first, Turkey will pay off all its debts to the Russian Federation, and then it stutters about the purchases ... They should have won for gas already, for the nuclear power plant too ... It's time to pay, gentlemen of the Turks, and there is no money, let Constantinople as a payment!

[iouris]

Quote: Bear040

First let Turkey pay off all debts to the Russian Federation, and then it stutters about purchases ...

Why "Turkey" at once?

[Pavel57]

Which is easier - to wait for the PD-8 under the Be-200 or to launch the production of the A-40, A-40 will also be useful for the Navy.

[Aag]

Yes, really ... And the glider is outstanding (at least it was). And the necessary one, a lot of where. Again with dvigol problems ...
I looked at Viki: it flies a lot (or is listed). I remember, at the beginning of the century, for 500r it was possible to make a couple of circles over Baikal in the Listvyanka region. I don’t know the status of the board; but there were no jet skis , and the BU-200 was.
Particular indignation of local citizens about the sending of these boards to Spain, Greece .... etc. This is when the price was burning. And not only the forest, but also the settlements, with all that it implies.
Just a picture: a fire-victim is sitting at a neighbor's, watching TV how we help those on whose territory, the villas of our "leaders", and he thinks: what do I need such rulers for? I don't need them, they are me, for a long time!
I ask the greatest Sorry, for deviating from the topic of discussion.
Well, no matter how you come off, everything is interconnected.

[CBR600]

Collect from PJSC Taganrog Aviation Scientific and Technical Complex
named after G.M.Beriev ”(347923, Taganrog, Aviator Square, 1, OGRN 1026102571065) in
the benefit of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (119160, Moscow, Znamenka St.,
d.19, OGRN 1037700255284) the amount of the advance payment in the amount of 6 726 480 000 rub.
(six billion seven hundred twenty six million four hundred eighty thousand
rubles).
Terminate the state contract of 23.05.2013
No. 1316187126162020105004662 / 0173100000813000404-0087535-02 concluded between
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and PJSC Taganrog Aviation
scientific and technical complex named after G.M.Beriev. ”
Collect from PJSC Taganrog Aviation Scientific and Technical Complex
named after G.M.Beriev ”the state fee in the amount of the federal budget in the amount of
200 000 rub. (two hundred thousand rubles).
The decision can be appealed to the within one month from the date of adoption in the Ninth
arbitration court of appeal.
Referee: M.M. Cousin

...for reference
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