Why is Russia subject to the West? Tips for Vladimir Putin

34
Why is Russia subject to the West? Tips for Vladimir PutinAs part of the ongoing on-site project of Central Eurasia, a virtual expert discussion entitled “Tips Vladimir Putin ”was touched on a complex block of issues around the interaction between Russia and the West. A number of authoritative experts from the Russian Federation, Ukraine, and Central Asian countries responded to these questions: Valery Ivanov (Russia), Marat Shibutov (Kazakhstan), Alexey Dundich (Russia), Evgeny Abdullayev (Uzbekistan), Igor Piliaev (Ukraine), Andrey Kazantsev (Russia ) and Murat Laumulin (Kazakhstan).

Vladimir Paramonov (Uzbekistan), head of the Central Eurasia project: dear colleagues, it seems to me that at the level of strategy / development strategies, Russia stands with the same positions with the West, retaining only disagreements (or their appearance) on less significant issues, in fact tactical and not at all of a strategic nature. In this regard, it seems that no matter what decisions Russia takes on the post-Soviet space, Central Asia, Afghanistan and other regions, all this does not change the essence of the common - strategic subordination of Russian politics to global / western development / interaction schemes. What do you think about that? Do you agree with this statement? What do not agree?

Valery Ivanov (Russia), retired third-class state adviser to the Russian Federation: I believe that Russia simply does not have any other real, and most importantly serious, opportunities to influence the situation. Hence attempts to save face in a bad “surrender”. How many times has it been proposed to “stake oneself”, in particular, in Afghanistan by participating in the restoration of the economy of this country. Yes, where there. There are some more global ideas, and the losses are incommensurable.
Marat Shibutov (Kazakhstan), representative of the Association of Cross-Border Cooperation (Russia) in Kazakhstan: I’ve been saying this a long time ago that the Russian Federation in our region has been acting as a junior partner of the United States and the countries of the region cannot be counted on for key issues between them. Given that the EU seems to have already buried the Nabucco project in its original form and will receive gas only from Azerbaijan, the rivalry on this front will be minimal. Another thing is China. It is possible that the United States, which is now strengthening its presence in the Pacific, will be concerned about strengthening China in our country in Central Asia. It is in the interests of both the United States and the Russian Federation that a small but controlled destabilization of the region takes place, which would allow the Chinese to be thrown out of here, and the countries of the region returned back under the influence of the Russian Federation and the United States.

Alexey Dundich (Russia), lecturer in the Department of Oriental Studies at MGIMO (University): in my opinion, Russia has its own policy in the post-Soviet space, and it is not subordinate to Western development schemes. Another thing is that it really does coincide with the western on strategic issues. This situation may change, for example, if the actions of the West contradict Russian strategic interests. As, for example, they contradict in Syria. At the same time, Russia will perceive a more sensitive situation in Central Asia, since the region is closer. For example, the presence of coalition troops in Afghanistan is in line with Russian strategic interests, as is the presence of transit bases in Central Asia, which ensure the supply of coalition. However, reducing the level of tension in Afghanistan and an attempt to obtain additional bases that are not fundamental for ensuring regional security will cause opposition from Russia.
Yevgeny Abdullaev (Uzbekistan), researcher: my personal feeling is already from the war in the Persian Gulf (1991). Russia (then USSR) is strategically integrated into the policies of Western countries, more precisely, the United States. Another thing is that periodically there were attempts to "play" what was lost as a result of Gorbachev's detent and the collapse of the USSR (positions in the post-Soviet space, influence in the Middle East). The most successful of them were those that were somehow pragmatically related to the export of hydrocarbons (here you had to listen to economists and to act more cautiously, which was good); the least successful were when Russia acted out of purely military interests (in the case of Georgia). But the overall “pro-Western” strategic vector in Moscow’s foreign policy over the past quarter century has remained unchanged.

Igor Pilyaev (Ukraine), Doctor of Political Sciences, Professor: quite right. The strategic subordination of Russian policy to external, development schemes developed outside Russia is a constant fundamental, essential characteristic of the Russian Federation from the moment it appeared on the political map in 1991. The Russian Federation, through its bureaucracy and oligarchs, is fully integrated into the new world order as a raw material non-national appendage with decorative autonomy and nuclear weapons - the unwitting gift of the late superpower. The regime of “managed democracy” in the Russian Federation has, until now, in principle, suit all the leading actors of world politics. The losers from such a state of affairs remain, first of all, the Russian people, which in essence have no national state, and Russian civil society.
Andrei Kazantsev (Russia), Doctor of Political Sciences, Director of the MGIMO Analytical Center (U): the topic of strategic restrictions on the possibility of Russia pursuing this or that foreign policy in Central Asia is very important. However, here, with a light hand, a number of authors of the left (Delyagin, Kagarlitsky) and neo-Eurasian directions (Dugin, etc.) who are not well versed in international relations (“Dugin, etc.”) have “wound” a lot of mythology, which must be eliminated in order to pursue a realistic .

Yes, we depend on the world market, on the Western banking system, on formally Western (and, in fact, most often, Russian, previously withdrawn) investments. And that limits our foreign policy. We are also dependent on the world communications system and on Western popular culture. It is desirable to get rid of these constraints, since any state strives to maximize its strength. However, we must understand that we exist in an interdependent world, where complete elimination of restrictions is impossible. On the contrary, one should try to realize these limitations and make the most of them for our own benefit.
The question that Russia (for example, due to the economic and other restrictions imposed by the global system) is severely limited in its ability to pursue an active foreign policy, including in Central Asia, arose naturally. This is due to the fact that Russia's policy after the collapse of the USSR was extremely passive. Russia was not so much a subject as an object of the system of international relations, which was caused by the lack of sufficient economic and political resources of the Kremlin.

In particular, in Central Asia, this was manifested in the complete and deliberate loss by Moscow of all instruments of influence in the first half of the 1990s. Russia deliberately minimized its presence in the region. In the new millennium, in connection with the increased possibilities of the state (especially in connection with the rise in oil prices and the establishment of a "vertical of power"), a great interest arose in pursuing a more active policy. At the same time, the search began for tools to increase the subjectivity of the state in the external arena, including the efforts of experts. However, it is impossible not to understand that activity and subjectivity cannot be an end in themselves. The power of the state must be “smart.” No wonder the world is now talking about smart power (smart power) in international relations.

The “cleverness” of power should consist, first of all, in accepting the realities of the regional and international system of relations and in optimally realizing the interests of Russia in these conditions. We simply will not have any other conditions, and fantasizing (or nostalgic) on this topic is practically meaningless. The problem is that, resist - do not resist, be indignant - do not be indignant, these realities will have to be taken into account. In this regard, Moscow’s policy in the region will always be limited, regardless of our desires. However, it is necessary to consider how to use even these restrictions for the benefit of Russia.
The realities are as follows.

1. The recognition of the existence of independent states of Central Asia and the rejection of the illusion of the possibility of recreating the USSR or something similar in any new (albeit, for example, Eurasian shell). The region is now effectively (not in terms of policy effectiveness, but in terms of realizing the possibility of control itself) controlling local elites and / or counter-elites (for example, criminals), and they are closely connected, although they partially compete. If you do not fully understand this priority of local elites, then effective interaction with the Central Asian elites is impossible.
In addition, under this condition, the main argument for opponents of cooperation with Russia in the Central Asian region and their allies in the West disappears. Recreation of the USSR or another imperial form through economic integration is unattainable, it can be done only by conquest. Therefore, a number of neo-Eurasianists (above all, Dugin), who confuse Eurasian economic integration with the re-establishment of the Eurasian empire, are doing Russia a very bad service. They simply quarrel Moscow with the local elites of the new independent states, and also give these elites the opportunity to appeal to the support of the West, using the imaginary threat to their independence (not without reason Dugin is one of the most quoted Russian authors in the West).

Therefore, it is necessary to carefully consider the ideology of Eurasian integration, without putting it at the mercy of extremists. It is this, i.e. The search for a new, adequate to the realities of our time and pragmatic Eurasian ideology is currently occupied by such well-known Russian experts, such as A.I. Podberezkin. The request for this is formulated in the well-known election article of V.V. Putin, and much earlier, he was formulated in a large number of publications by N.A. Nazarbayev.
2. Moscow in the first half of the 1990-s. lost strategic control over the region in terms of not allowing other key global players into it. Local elites / counter-elites constantly “play” on the contradictions of the main great powers involved in the region (Russia, USA, China, etc.). Even if a number of Central Asian states (especially such dependent countries as Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan) integrate into structures like the CSTO, this does not mean that the Russian Federation has exclusive strategic rights to the region.

At the same time, all Central Asian states interact through NATO with the USA and through the SCO with the PRC. Often they use rapprochement with Russia to receive new proposals from the United States and vice versa. The significance of the PRC is growing, which is becoming the priority No. 1 for the whole of Central Asia, gently “squeezing out” Russia.
Consequently, we need to understand how to prevent the Central Asian elites from continuing to play us, intensifying our confrontation with other great powers where we do not need it.
Tashkent is particularly famous for such a strategy in the Bismarck's “realpolitik” style, which likes to play the contradictions of the great powers in order to maximize its regional influence. We are already often pointlessly competing with the United States where it would be more profitable for us to cooperate (for example, in the fight against extremism, terrorism, drug trafficking, the formation of failed states, etc.). And in the future, we can push our heads together with the People's Republic of China, which is disastrous in general.

So, Moscow, at a minimum, is strategically limited in Central Asia to the interests of local elites and the interests of other great powers involved in the region. Without accepting these realities, it will be very difficult for us to work in the region.
Murat Laumulin (Kazakhstan), chief researcher at the Kazakhstan Institute for Strategic Studies: the European focus will remain a key focus in relations between the Russian Federation and the West. According to Western analysts themselves, some issues that complicate Russian-European relations today may become less significant or disappear altogether. Although a number of disagreements are likely to persist, some will escalate. Europe’s current concern about Russia's undemocratic nature will simply disappear, questions of protecting the rights of citizens and the need for the rule of law will lose relevance (although disputes over the discrepancy in achieving these goals will remain). Nevertheless, serious disputes concerning the relations between Russia and the European Union will not go anywhere (relations between Russia and NATO can also be a source of problems).
As observers unanimously draw conclusions, relations between Moscow and the European Union have been at a dead end for several years. Russia is only watching how the EU is looking for a way out of the debt and institutional crisis. In the last of his electoral articles, Vladimir Putin made it clear that his sympathies are on the side of that version of anti-crisis reforms and institutional transformation that Berlin and Paris defend (its implementation will help consolidate German-French domination in a united Europe). It is assumed that such a transformation will have a positive impact on the relations between Russia and the EU.

According to experts, there are various options. One of them is that the decision-making mechanism in the EU will quite quickly be brought into line with the new economic realities, and the principle of “Europe at different speeds” will be consolidated at the institutional level. The separation of the European Union into several integration echelons would contribute to the emergence of additional zones of cooperation, serving as “bridges” from the European Union (its main core) to the Eurasian Union. The implementation of a differentiated model of different-speed integration would lay the foundation for a new mega-project with reference points in Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Kiev and Moscow. So far, however, such a scenario looks purely hypothetical.

Another option is to delay the process of reformatting the EU, in which Berlin will have to make concessions to partners on secondary issues. Probably one of the victims will be a course in relation to Russia and the countries of the former Soviet Union. It is in the eastern direction that the simulacrum of the single foreign policy of the European Union has a chance to extend its life. Then the stagnation in relations between Moscow and the European Union undergoing internal transformation will drag on for years. Europe will obviously be unable to seriously discuss strategic partnership issues with Moscow. In addition, the decisive intensification of Russian policy in the APR sooner or later will force the EU countries to take a fresh look at the prospects for relations with the largest country in Eurasia.
The third option for the development of Russian-European relations may be associated with a sharp exacerbation of the military-political situation in the Middle East, as well as its long-term geopolitical and geo-economic consequences. They are associated with the prospect of reshaping state borders in the Middle East, refugee flows, Turkey’s struggle to realize the ambitions of the regional hegemon in the Eastern Mediterranean, the South Caucasus and Central Asia, the threat of a revival of the Islamic caliphate. Thus, awareness of the common threats of Russia and Europe is one of the most powerful incentives for rapprochement of these states.

As Western experts suggest, the next question will inevitably arise in the future: should Russia join the European Union? Pros include the ability for Russians to travel, learn and work freely in the EU. The disadvantages will be related to the fact that Russia will have to not only allow European corporations to have free trade and investment on its territory, but also to ensure the protection of rights, despite the objections of their Russian competitors and public opinion. Although the acquisition by European firms with quality management of poorly managed Russian companies, the replacement of their management and complete reorganization are in the long-term interests of the country, this will undoubtedly be very painful for some categories of Russians (especially high-ranking managers).
But even if Russia wants to join the EU, this does not mean that the European Union will agree. Latent fear of Moscow persists in some Eastern European countries, so they will seek to block integration.
So, the European Union is likely to expect Russia, aspiring to join the EU, to support democratic transformations in Belarus; reducing military presence in Kaliningrad and the withdrawal of troops from Transnistria; efforts aimed at resolving the Transnistrian problem and the reunification of the region with Moldova; facilitating Serbia’s recognition of Kosovo’s independence and normalization of relations between them; rejection of the idea of ​​a special zone of Russian influence, including the former Western Soviet republics (the Baltic states, Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova).

It is by no means a fact that Russia will want to accept the conditions for participation in the EU, which, no doubt, the European Union will put forward. However, it is clear that the EU will not change the existing norms in order to fulfill the wishes of Moscow. The rivalry between Moscow and Brussels is increasingly reduced to the question of whether Russia will be able to consolidate its strategic status as the main extractive state with an oligopoly in the field of distribution networks.
Vladimir Paramonov: I thank all the experts who took part in this part of the discussion. I have several additions to the theses of those distinguished colleagues who pointed to the inevitability of some subordination to the West, and I will formulate them in the form of questions. How can the same post-Soviet countries build direct relations with Russia as the main strategic partner / priority, realizing that the Russian Federation, in fact, is already the junior partner of the West and the priority of the post-Soviet space for Moscow itself is at least secondary? How then to develop the integration processes in the economic sphere in the regional re-integration of the post-Soviet space, if Russia simultaneously forces the course towards integration into the global economic space and Western institutions?

I myself will answer these questions: building relationships of a real (rather than declarative) strategic nature and developing reintegration processes in such conditions is impossible by definition. In my opinion, Russia should remain itself, and not try to integrate into certain external schemes and development concepts. Only as an independent center of power, the Russian Federation can count on intensive economic development and play the role of a Eurasian integration power. And if Russia’s dependence on the West today cannot be reduced by Russia on its own, then we should work out and use such schemes and policy algorithms that have at least significantly balanced the Western factor at the expense of, for example, the same Chinese factor. Is it time to turn to face China?

And in such conditions, for the Russian Federation, the search for new ideas and breakthrough solutions should be vital, which is possible only through the development of national intellectual potential, the organization of a stable and large-scale system of state analytical work. If Russia does not do this, then a simple conclusion suggests itself: does it mean that the current political and economic elite of the Russian Federation simply does not need / does not want to do this, and she obviously accepted the subordinate role of her country? But will the leadership of Russia and Russia itself come to terms with this role and with such an elite?

Note: the material was prepared in the framework of a joint project with the Internet magazine “Time of the East” (Kyrgyzstan), http://www.easttime.ru/ with informational support from the IA Regnum (Russia) and the Information Analytical Center of Moscow State University (Russia)
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34 comments
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  1. +15
    3 August 2012 06: 14
    I remembered a joke with a huge beard about the Armenian radio.

    Armenian radio was asked - "Is it possible to make love to a woman on a crowded square in Yerevan?"
    - "Perhaps" - they answered on the radio - "Only for .... t advice"

    So here - as soon as some Paramonov Speaks, whose country, like a flea, jumps from place to place, so Russia is not independent in making its decisions and it is imperative to prompt it.
    As Frunzik Mkrtychan says in "Mimino" - "Who is this victim? I don't know him ...!".
    But the statements of Marat Shibutov and Alexei Dundich are sensible and, indeed, analytical, without a raid of propaganda engagement. One feels that these are representatives of countries with a well-defined political position, taking into account realities.
    1. recitatorus
      +13
      3 August 2012 09: 23
      esaul,
      It seems that the article was written about three years ago! All that these talkers talk about is yesterday, and they are discussing not Russia’s place in today's world, but their own place and their own understanding of Russia, and that’s all. It will be different, it’s such Russia.
      1. Sober
        +3
        3 August 2012 15: 49
        recitatorus,
        I support! also got the impression)))
  2. +6
    3 August 2012 06: 40
    How many people want to teach Russia. And themselves, that everything is a bunch?
    1. recitatorus
      +10
      3 August 2012 09: 25
      They married me without me, and divorced me without me! - the meaning of the article is about this.
  3. +7
    3 August 2012 07: 09
    Let's change the title of the article. Why is the West subordinate to Russia? Advice to Western rulers.
    "it seems to me that at the level of development strategy / strategies Russia The West acts from a unified position with West Russia, preserving only disagreements (or their appearance) "and in the text tongue I don't like it when they "make" fools of us
  4. Trofimov174
    +6
    3 August 2012 07: 12
    If Russia had been subordinated to the West, there would have been no Syrian question today (like the country of Syria itself, the United States of Syria would have taken its place). This is a small introduction. The idea of ​​the article flies around Central Asia - the most underdeveloped region in the territory of the former USSR, and apparently the author sees in the absence of interest of the Russian government in this region a certain manifestation of Western control. Well, let him think, however, when I see two apples on a shelf: fresh red and rotten green and, for obvious reasons, take red, this does not mean that I am under the control of these apples)). I myself made a decision based on my observations. So Russia independently, on the basis of its own observations, for the benefit of itself and its interests, decides which region of the former USSR (and not only) to closely cooperate with and who to give to gnaw at the lurking star-striped dreamers of world domination. Now to the comments.
    1) The author’s remark about the growing influence of the SCO in the region is not clear. After all, Russia, together with China, is the founder of this organization and one of its leaders.
    2) Thoughts on Russia's accession to the EU ... no comment
  5. PatriotizTAT
    -3
    3 August 2012 08: 50
    Yes, there is a part of the truth ... at least for me, the leader of our country makes too many disputed and subordinate pro-Western elite decisions, the last of them ... I wouldn’t give the European-Soviet Union the start of building, but this one is asking for guaranteessmile 2-supply of arms to Iran; 3-entry into the WTO; 4-reform of the RF Armed Forces; lol
    1. Trofimov174
      0
      5 August 2012 18: 40
      1 - no one would ask him
      2 - Iran has more weapons - more holes in American aircraft carriers and richer our treasury
      3 - The WTO is not a poison, but a medicine, albeit a potent one, but differently from parasitic plants that multiply for strong protection of customs duties and feed people rotten products, you will not get rid.
      4 - a wonderful reform that will make the Russian army ready for modern threats to the independence of our country.
      5 - paid education? Where? I’m a student, I haven’t paid a single ruble for three years of study, on the contrary, they pay me, and not bad.
  6. +7
    3 August 2012 09: 20
    And can I give advice to Putin, well, then Cho is smarter than anyone. I’ll run around with tips every day. laughing
    1. dreamer
      +3
      3 August 2012 09: 24
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      And can I give advice to Putin, but what?I’m smarter than anyone. I’ll run around with tips every day.

      Sasha, you got !!! I sympathize with your bleak future on this site ... wassat
    2. Oleg0705
      +1
      3 August 2012 12: 24
      Alexander Romanov,

      Did you celebrate the holiday yesterday with the landing? laughing
    3. +8
      3 August 2012 17: 04
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      And can I give advice to Putin, well, then Cho is smarter than anyone. I’ll run with tips every day


      Advice (request or instructions to anyone as you like) to Putin is only one. Not a step back in the 90s. It was then that Russia was completely subordinate to the West, both politically and ideologically.
      , Such a period in a long history has not yet been. The 20th century was terrible for Russian civilization, she experienced three terrible blows - The First World War and the Revolution of 1917, after a fierce massacre, Russian statehood was partially restored in the Red Empire of Stalin; she withstood the second most powerful blow - the invasion of the hordes of Hitler, was even able to bring mankind into space, but the third blow was crushing - The 1991 revolution led to a complete cultural, political dependence on the West.
      The new elite has accepted Western development path that led to the moral and intellectual degradation of the people. As a result, all the main signs of the degradation of the West became defining phenomena for Russia as well - a reduction in the size of a significant part of the indigenous peoples, especially the Russian people - the core, the core of all civilization; mass migration of representatives of foreign cultures who do not accept Russian culture; mass spiritual degradation of society. Although there are some differences, in the West they give birth less, since children lead to a drop in a comfortable standard of living, and in our country because of the present socio-economic, narcotic (tobacco, alcohol, stronger drugs) genocide of the population. In Russia there are sprouts of the revival of Russianness, new generations are looking for the Truth, trying to find theirs.
      Therefore, we have a choice: die under the rubble of Western civilization which is doomed to agony and deathor find your own path of development. To offer humanity its own option - globalization, while preserving the identity of races and peoples, without turning into a faceless amorphous mass of "economic people". To do this, one must gradually distance oneself from the West as its troubles increase. To change the power’s information field is to recall our victories, analyze mistakes, restore Russian culture, and displace non-Russian speakers.
      How do I speak? There is no turning back for usif we want to preserve our statehood and the national and historical identity of the peoples of Russian Eurasian civilization. In bent, almost like Kurginyan or Prokhanov!

      Recently, in line for another paper in one of the bureaucratic offices, I talked with ordinary workaholic men (not from the category of intellectual liberal pontorez) on the general topics of life in our country and the future of the country, I liked the phrase of one of my interlocutors
      "Up there, they think that we don’t understand anything, are indifferent to everything (in the original source the phrase sounded differently) can they only drink beer and watch Petrosyanov’s box? So they are deeply mistaken and cannot understand what else this cattle needs except for a piece of bread from the master's table and vulgar spectacles?
      And most importantly, they do not understand that it is impossible to make us indifferent to everything, no matter how hard they try "

      So as long as there are such people in Russia, it will live and develop in spite of enemies and "friends".
      That's why I like this site because there are no equilibrium opponents, despite all our differences in views and opinions.
      So advice to Putin and Medvedev often to look at topwar.ru not tripper (oh. sorry on twitter)
      1. Bismarck
        +2
        3 August 2012 18: 13
        Quote: Ascetic
        not in tripper (oh. sorry on twitter

        This name suits him better! Such a heresy !!! stop stop stop
  7. +6
    3 August 2012 09: 45
    M-yes.
    The article is reduced in principle to the following.
    Now, if Russia gave a lot of money to Central Asia, would develop their economy and industry, preferably for free, but at the same time did not meddle in their political affairs and turned a blind eye to how the local elites saw this "financial feeding", and at the same time would not ask for anything in return, then that would be great.
    And so Russia is behaving incorrectly.
    Again, it all comes down to the fact that Russia owes everything to something and owes something.
  8. +3
    3 August 2012 10: 29
    To whom, as I am interested, TIPS OF VLADIMIR PUTIN ....
  9. 8 company
    +10
    3 August 2012 10: 33
    I would also give advice to Putin, but who am I compared to Putin and what have I done compared to him? I will not say that he is perfect, but, looking at Russian history, I consider him one of the most worthy Russian rulers. Under him, Russia is dynamically adding on all the most important indicators of socio-economic development, and without any revolutions, dispossession, hunger strikes and mass repressions.
    1. 0
      3 August 2012 11: 24
      It is strange to read this from the owner of the shards.
      1. +3
        3 August 2012 12: 28
        urzul,
        Quote: urzul

        It is strange to read this from the owner of the shards.

        The owner of the shards can not be seen to be licit and tells the truth for it to see and falls. Although his comments are rare and in this case is a well-deserved plus Yes
      2. +1
        3 August 2012 13: 23
        Quote: urzul
        It is strange to read this from the owner of the shards.

        I noted it for sure yesterday, I lost reference points, that I think and speak!
    2. Oleg0705
      +1
      3 August 2012 12: 25
      Are you on the mend? laughing
  10. +3
    3 August 2012 11: 44
    and judges (that is, who are the advisers?) -Paramonov (Uzbekistan) “Time of the East” (Kyrgyzstan), !!!!!! -mixed to tears !!! as they say, whose cow would mumble, but they would be silent !!!!!
  11. serge
    +4
    3 August 2012 12: 26
    But why Russia, in fact, joining the EU?
    Do we need:
    The joining of our army to NATO, where it will be concrete cannon fodder. And the "Europeans" will be a detachment.
    The dominance of sexual perverts.
    The mass arrival of blacks, few Tajiks.
    Destruction of the last remnants of free medicine.
    A sharp drop in the educational level of youth, to which the Zionist mafia is already reaching without Europe, and what will happen in Europe ...
    Pensions from 70 years, as in Germany, for example, with a life expectancy of men at 62 years. Young people do not understand.
    Juvenile justice as it is. Children on whom parents do not dare to poke.
    Jewish cult and terms for Holocaust denial.
    Full transition to "plastic" vegetables and fruits, GMO products.
    Prohibition of growing anything other than grass at home if you are not officially a farmer (as in the USA.).
    Private forests, lakes and rivers (a big step in this direction by the "people's" government with Putin, by the way, at the head, has already been made).
    Yes, much more can be added.
    And why do we need all this?
    For the sake of the opportunity to go to Paris on a tourist trip visa-free?
    1. Churchill
      +4
      3 August 2012 13: 13
      Quote: serge
      For the sake of the opportunity to go to Paris on a tourist trip visa-free

      This is the only thing that a rotten west can promise us! Is it not enough?
      We fuck do not need this EU, let alone NATO!
  12. +4
    3 August 2012 12: 38
    noble teachers give us notable tips ...... themselves in r .... seriously and for a long time
  13. prispek
    +1
    3 August 2012 12: 57
    Well . on a hike for "shards".
    The meaning of the article, as I understand it, is in an attempt to understand where Russia is heading. And why is it moving in one direction or another. Since the authorities in Russia do not consider it necessary to explain and justify their actions, let alone present a program of their actions to society, such a discussion has the right to be.
    Perhaps the participants in the discussion are not the most stupid people. But here we are even smarter and will not allow giving advice to the leadership of Russia. We ourselves will run with such advice, and if not to Putin (you cannot advise the authorities) then to the participants in the discussion.
    Quote: Company 8
    I consider him one of the most worthy Russian rulers. Under him, Russia is dynamically adding on all the most important indicators of socio-economic development, and without any revolutions, dispossession, hunger strikes and mass repressions.

    Under Putin, Russia can show any growth rate of all the most important indicators, but as long as the population decline is not stopped, this is not important. Nothing matters if there is no reproduction of the population. Neither dekulakization nor repression is needed if the population is declining even despite the influx of migrants.
    When real (non-migratory) population growth is achieved and the outflow of capital abroad is stopped, then we can talk about indicators of socio-economic development. And while this is not there, everything is pointless.
    1. Churchill
      +6
      3 August 2012 13: 10
      Quote: prispek
      then we can talk about indicators of socio-economic development

      Without social and economic development, population growth is impossible!
      It is only in Africa that children will be born from humanitarian aid!
      1. prispek
        0
        3 August 2012 13: 51
        Quote: Churchill
        Without social and economic development, population growth is impossible!

        Hello Winston. You're not right. This is not possible without population growth, and socio-economic development is meaningless.
        Firstly, who is it, this development will be carried out if there is no population.
        Secondly, who needs it if there is no population?
        Sincerely ...
        1. +4
          3 August 2012 13: 58
          Firstly, who is it, this development will be carried out if there is no population.
          Development always has two paths, extensive and intense.
          1. prispek
            0
            3 August 2012 19: 21
            Quote: urzul
            Development always has two paths, extensive and intense.

            Please explain what you wanted to say.
            I remember Gorbachev began with "intensification and acceleration" and substantiated the viciousness of extensive development.
            The result - workers did not want to work more and faster for the same money.
        2. Jaromir
          +3
          3 August 2012 14: 16
          Quote: prispek
          It is not possible without population growth and social and economic development is senseless.

          Population growth is children, and children, by definition, cannot develop anything, okromyu themselves. Or you suggest 20-30 years to wait until they grow up, and after that start development. You know how in agriculture: first they build a barn, and then calves are bred, and not vice versa.
          1. prispek
            0
            3 August 2012 19: 40
            Hello Jaromir.
            Quote: Jaromir
            .You know how in agriculture: first they build a barn, and then calves are bred, and not vice versa.

            Of course, we are leaving the topic nonetheless.
            Of course, first the calf (the barn is for adults). That is a kindergarten. There is no kind house from the beginning, that is, obstetrics, children's medicine. Then available places in preschool institutions and so on.
            I assure you that children grow quickly. Not 20-30 years old. Steady population growth for the first 3-5 years will allow hope for the revival of both the economy and the country as a whole.
            So far, I do not see any real cases in the demographic issue. Moreover, with the coming to power of GDP in the village where I live, they closed the outpatient clinic and transferred the kindergarten to a commercial basis, and here they tell me about some kind of socio-economic development
    2. +1
      3 August 2012 13: 47
      At the beginning of the 2011 year, there was the first swallow, when for the first time in many years, the birth rate in the quarter exceeded mortality.
      1. prispek
        +1
        3 August 2012 14: 04
        Quote: urzul
        At the beginning of 2011 was the first swallow,

        Hello Andrey.
        Maybe. But experience tells me that to believe those who believe lies
        necessary and almost the only tool for communication with society, it is impossible.
        And the first swallow is certainly good, but let's wait for the whole flock.
        Sincerely ...
  14. 0
    3 August 2012 18: 07
    These same scientists do not see the upcoming realities. Well, let's wait when the face and ..... well, here everyone will choose for them everything he wants.

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