Military Review

UAZ-3972. The "car" that we lost

75

UAZ-3972. Source: gruzovikpress.ru


Monopolist modernization


The plant in Ulyanovsk during the years of Soviet rule lived very well. Machines were in demand both in the army and in the national economy, and in the absence of competition there were no incentives to expand the model range and modernization of the enterprise. And it so happened that so far even the civilian line of cars is based on solutions more than half a century ago. Which readers will recall that the best is the enemy of the good? The UAZ classic with its unpretentiousness and patency has long entered itself in a host of legends such as Land Rover Defender, Mercedes-Benz G-class and Jeep Rangler. It is difficult to argue with this, but all competitors have long since changed generations, moved to new platforms and finally began to comply with modern safety and comfort standards. And for many years UAZ has announced the appearance of the “Prado killer”, developed jointly with foreigners ... The appearance of the car has been postponed until the end of 2021. Consumers until this time will have to put up with the legacy of the Soviet technical school and the corresponding quality of manufacturing.


UAZ-3972 at the Oldtimer Gallery of Ilya Sorokin. Photo by Yuri Pasholok. Source: vk.ru

In a hopeless series of minor improvements, cosmetic improvements such as the Patriot series, thirty years ago, the hope for a global modernization of all UAZ vehicles was awakened. The first calls came, naturally, from the main customer - the Ministry of Defense of the USSR.

In August 1989, the Ulyanovsk Automobile Plant was put forward a demand for the construction of a light vehicle capable of transporting 9-10 people. To accommodate the division of motorized rifles, it was proposed to extend the bonnet UAZ-3151 and re-equip the UAZ-3303 onboard truck. Automobile workers completed the order within two months, and by February 1990, on the basis of the van, they had additionally created the UAZ-37411. The model of the last car was a “loaf” with a cut roof, stern and part of the side panels. The resulting cargo platform was covered with an awning. In any other case, a cramped closed wagon could not accommodate eight fighters in equipment. The Ministry of Defense, obviously, still made a requirement for the ability to quickly leave the car in case of shelling by the enemy, and here the tilt body came in handy. But on tests, the idea of ​​converting the van into an open truck proved to be not the most successful side. Through the sides, 1,2 meters high, it was inconvenient for the soldiers to get into the car, the wheel arches took up a lot of space, and the awning was too low. Even a heater was installed in the back of the experimental car, which proved to be ineffective: the tent blown by all the winds refused to keep heat.


Extended UAZ-3151. In the late 80s - early 90s, they tried to put up to 10 soldiers in it. Well, that did not work. Source: denisovets.ru

The worst thing was the soldiers in the extended execution of the bonnet "UAZ" with an extended frame length of 200 mm. Inside it was expectedly crowded, and the UAZ-3151 itself suffered from overload: instead of the prescribed 800 kg, a ton was now prescribed to him immediately. Due to the specificity of the layout, the load balance shifted to the rear axle, while the front one was underloaded by 35 kg in comparison with the original. All this extremely negatively affected the maneuverability and dynamics of the car, and the engine resource in such conditions of overload was seriously reduced. Much later, in 2004, in many ways a similar vehicle under the UAZ-2966 index with a capacity of 9 people was adopted by the Russian army.
















Experienced UAZs designed to transport the squad of fighters. Source: denisovets.ru

The most successful option was the onboard UAZ-33031. Here, the landing / landing was much more convenient, and the wheel arches did not particularly interfere with the legs, and the platform itself was more spacious. As a result, it was this embodiment that seemed most optimal for the military. Despite minor flaws, the car was sent for pre-production revision. I had to come to terms with the motion sickness of personnel on dirt roads, as well as with the not very convenient landing of personnel through the side walls.





UAZ-3972. The "car" that we lost










Experienced UAZ-33034, which almost went into the series. Everything ruined the disgusting behavior of the car during braking. Once the truck even rolled over, slowing down from a harmless 80 km / h. Source: denisovets.ru

A new model of a carrier of a motorized rifle squad received the name UAZ-33034. He appeared in April 1990. The designers installed wheel gears on the truck, which further increased the loading height to 870 mm. The body was made of rolled steel, and the awning with windows was sewn whole, ensuring landing / disembarkation only through the rear flap valve. During the tests unexpectedly revealed problems with handling: when braking from high speeds, the wheels spontaneously turn, threatening a coup. At first, they decided that this was a consequence of the use of axles with gearboxes, but even with the previous units, the UAZ-33034 was very dangerous on the road. It was decided not to test fate and abandon the passenger performance of an onboard Ulyanovsk truck. For the transport of goods such obstinacy "UAZ" seemed acceptable.

"Wagon" and "HACK"


All of the above attempts to modernize or reprofile equipment from Ulyanovsk went under the cipher of the development work of GAK. In the framework of the same area, in 1989, work began on the development of a new car of a wagon arrangement UAZ-3972. A little later, when all GAK projects were closed, the direction along the successor of the "loaf" was renamed to OCD "Wagon". In total, by the end of the 1990s, three copies of military ambulances with gear bridges and one freight-passenger van for the national economy were built. A small sample of dry tactical and technical characteristics of the new UAZ: curb weight - 2,25 tons, cruising range - 800 km, maximum speed - 100 km / h, towed trailer without brakes - 750 kg, with brakes - 1200 kg engine power - 77 l / s and fuel consumption - 12 l / 100 km. The frame for the car was almost unchanged from its predecessor. The 325 mm ground clearance achieved by the gear axles provided the experienced ambulances with excellent cross-country ability. In the civilian version without wheel gears of external gearing, the ground clearance (or, in military terms, clearance) was 220 mm. To preserve the condition of the wounded, the spring suspension was replaced with a spring suspension, although it remained dependent. A damping wheel appeared on the front axle, improving the handling of the car.


















UAZ-3972 in detail at the "Ilya Sorokin Oldtimer Gallery". Photo: Yuri Pasholok. Source: vk.ru

The appearance of the van was seriously different from its predecessor and was dictated by the requirements of military acceptance. Unified lighting, a small rear overhang, flat body panels and a windshield created a specific look for the car, for which the factory workers nicknamed the van “King Kong”. On the UAZ, a small hood appeared in front of the windshield to access the cooling radiator and the glass blowing fan. By the way, this gives reason to attribute the UAZ-3972 to the class of semi-hood vehicles. The appearance of the new UAZ was very similar to the Austrian Steyer-Daimler-Puch Pinzgauer 710, only on a reduced scale. The NATO machine was seriously different from the domestic one in the filling: it was based on the Tatra spinal frame, independent suspension and ground clearance (again due to gearboxes) of 335 mm.


Steyer-Daimler-Puch Pinzgauer 710 looks like an UAZ-3971. Source: avtorinok.ru



In the late 70s and early 80s, UAZ worked on a whole family of vans under the index 3770 and the name "Simbir", but they remained in the form of layouts. This project can be considered the ideological predecessor of the OCD "Wagon". Source: ru.cars.photo



Early "Simbir" from plasticine. Source: denisovets.ru

The power plant on the UAZ-3972 was the classic UMP-4178 with a capacity of 92 liters. s., but in the future it was planned to mount UMP-421, which is already developing 105 liters. with. Interesting история with the layout of the engine. The fact is that initially they planned to place the motor strictly in the center, but this, as in the case with the usual “loaf,” shifted the driver's seat to the left. It turned out and sitting uncomfortable, and the view from the driver's seat was unsatisfactory. Therefore, the UMP-4178 was moved 3 cm to the right (initially the idea was to move it immediately by 7 cm) and the driver seemed to be more comfortable. But the visibility problem could not be solved by such a microscopic redevelopment: it was also aggravated due to the flat windshield.


The salon is not the freshest, but it gives an idea of ​​the original idea of ​​the designers. Source: vk.ru

The most important thing in the promising van was the improvement of the driver's working conditions, which is especially evident in comparison with the UAZ-452 series. Not so much painted metal remained in the cockpit, but the dash, steering wheel and instrument cluster both in design and execution fully met the requirements of the time.

The military automobile industry found the collapse of the Soviet Union during a period of large-scale rearmament. Due to lack of money and lack of orders, many promising developments did not see the light of day. Some of them are embodied in the technical projects of modern Russia, and some have perished in obscurity. The little-known Wagon project was among the latter: neither the army nor the civilian sector received a replacement for the well-deserved UAZ-452 family. Apparently, ahead of the car and 65-year, and even 70-year conveyor anniversaries.
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  1. Vend
    Vend 17 June 2020 18: 04 New
    0
    We have not lost anything, the Legendary "Loaf" is back. https://2drive.ru/uaz-buhanka-xxi/
    1. credo
      credo 17 June 2020 19: 40 New
      +5
      Quote: Wend
      We have not lost anything, the Legendary "Loaf" is back. https://2drive.ru/uaz-buhanka-xxi/

      That's for sure, there's nothing to regret. It is necessary to develop your car industry (the one that still remains), taking into account current trends and needs of your population, and not slide into rising prices for manufactured products and mediocre quality.
      The disadvantage of the old "Loaf", as far as I remember from the last six-hour off-road driving, deafening everyone in the car engine, cramped (in height) interior and ascetic minimalism in everything.
  2. Grandfather
    Grandfather 17 June 2020 18: 15 New
    20
    "carriage" is a fierce hand-made craft ... it's good that they didn't release it, there are enough "loaves" ... two freaks are too much. I steered the "loaf" for six years, since then, I have toil with my back.
    1. Nasrat
      Nasrat 17 June 2020 19: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Dead Day
      "carriage" is a fierce hand-made article ....


      Yeah ... such a loss, duck for such a loss, and you can give out medals ... laughing
      Compare Steyer-Daimler-Puch Pinzgauer 710 and UAZ-3972 - and it’s clear who made the car with his hands, and who grows from the zhora ...
      Just a century of technological lag ...
  3. Fishery
    Fishery 17 June 2020 18: 18 New
    11

    56year))) American loaf
    1. mark1
      mark1 17 June 2020 18: 38 New
      +2
      And there is something in it from a diver ...
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 17 June 2020 19: 44 New
      +2
      Looks like a dorestyled loaf. First episodes
      1. uav80
        uav80 19 June 2020 14: 58 New
        +1
        The loaf began to be produced from the year 65 when the Jeep Forward Control was already discontinued ...

        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 19 June 2020 15: 02 New
          0
          Good machine. Though now let out for UAZ.
          And the motor, probably 5 liter
          1. uav80
            uav80 19 June 2020 15: 20 New
            +1
            Basically, Willes' engines "hurricane" 2,2l or 3,7l "super hurricane" of 134 and 227 lohads, respectively, were installed on them, the most powerful was Ford's Y-blok V8 with 4,5 liters and a capacity of 272, respectively
    3. uav80
      uav80 19 June 2020 15: 06 New
      +1
      In 2012, Jeep updated FC and released the Jeep Mighty FC Concept on the basis of the Rubicon, but the machine did not go into a series ...

  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 17 June 2020 18: 22 New
    -1
    I saw a photo on the screensaver - I immediately remembered about the "shteer")) But no, the mistake came out)))
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 17 June 2020 23: 38 New
      +5
      A colleague, a copy of such a machine was in the Ryazan Museum of Military Automotive Equipment. The Serdyukovskiy mafia was stubborn. But miraculously preserved the concept from the RAF - arrived with the list in which it was, but at that time the exhibit was under repair / restoration. Then they forgot about the well-known events. hi
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 17 June 2020 18: 34 New
    +3
    A loaf, of course, is the most fishing ... but nowhere else and nothing!
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 17 June 2020 19: 04 New
      15
      Quote: rocket757
      A loaf, of course, is the most fishing ... but nowhere else and nothing!

      Vitya, but I don’t agree. YouTube has a lot of videos about a loaf. Yes, and I myself remember how the bumper crashed the snow in the field, getting into the village to the patient. The tractor insured nearby, but was not needed, which I was very surprised by the little driving experience.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 17 June 2020 19: 33 New
        +2
        Vyacheslav soldier
        "Fishing" is just an example of extreme! We had ambulances in the village, half of them had "pills"! Because there are roads to farms and farms ... directions, in short. Now "Sobol" for the most part ... because the cars change, but the roads remain the same.
        1. KVIRTU
          KVIRTU 17 June 2020 21: 07 New
          10
          Sable is a little expensive in this segment; we’ve been on a loaf shift for the last five years. With BC, armchairs with straps BP, the rest as usual. All arising problems from the quality of workmanship. Either the spring leaf will burst, then the shock absorber mount will fall off at the seam from the body. Yes, all the seams are such that I’m smoother from the inverter in the garage from the inverter from the inverter.
          But in general, tights instead of the generator belt on Pajero do not wind, as it happened on this loaf, the benefit was the passenger :)
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 17 June 2020 22: 22 New
            +3
            Wow, repair with a sledgehammer and with .... Appropriate sound!
            1. KVIRTU
              KVIRTU 17 June 2020 23: 38 New
              +4
              If anyone does not know, rosin, for soldering which increases friction, tights slip less at high speeds. So it was not used natural, i.e. resin of pine.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 17 June 2020 23: 50 New
                0
                MOLOSY !!! Then I thought, when I was soldering the boards, why did it suddenly smell like pine forest ... a joke, I had to chew sap in childhood, when they lived and served in Siberia. And the people do not even know what rosin is and what it is "eaten" with!
                Yes, it is also part of the "lubricant" for the hands before grabbing the bar and gymnasts use it.
                Also, the elevators "chew" with her, when the brakes of the elevators are checked .... like this!
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 18 June 2020 00: 08 New
                  +3
                  Quote: rocket757
                  And the people and the truth do not know what rosin is and with what it is "eaten"!

                  Do not slap people.
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 18 June 2020 05: 10 New
                    0
                    Do you think many people know how to make rosin a big bad boom? Do you know?
          2. Jager
            Jager 20 June 2020 17: 02 New
            +1
            The problem is that Pajero does not diverge at the seams and the same belt runs boldly for 100 thousand miles. In the same loaf, the raw meat of the Balakovo plant will fall apart in 20.
            I will never forget this Ulyanovsk freak, a cargo-passenger loaf, they took a new one. It was falling apart before our eyes, in the winter my friend and I pushed this semi-finished product uphill together, as the razdatka refused. Slots and holes from curves of body panels and welding curve. Cooked to see his oise veterans, all his life without a mask and legs. As a result, she began to rot after two years, after three she was already in the sieve. Ugh, scary to remember.
  6. sabakina
    sabakina 17 June 2020 18: 34 New
    12
    This car is some kind of cross between a rafic and a loaf.
    1. knn54
      knn54 17 June 2020 19: 34 New
      +6
      Vyacheslav. Agreed. Inside a loaf. Sluchis- Army version of the RAF.
      And something (or it seems) from LUAZ.
    2. Jager
      Jager 20 June 2020 17: 07 New
      0
      Incest result laughing
  7. ximkim
    ximkim 17 June 2020 18: 44 New
    +2
    UAZ would have more comfort and reliability. And the cross-country is such that even a Land Cruiser will require a winch.
  8. Undecim
    Undecim 17 June 2020 19: 02 New
    12
    The plant in Ulyanovsk during the years of Soviet rule lived very well. Machines were in demand both in the army and in the national economy, and in the absence of competition there were no incentives to expand the model range and modernization of the enterprise.
    And the enterprise, as such, did not solve anything in those years. At the TZ plant, they prepared to replace the UAZ-469 in 1974, only the Minavtoprom was not interested in the offer. And could instead of UAZ-469 already in the late seventies to ride UAZ-3170.
  9. Bashkirkhan
    Bashkirkhan 17 June 2020 19: 03 New
    +4
    The UAZ Patriot grew out of the UAZ-3162 model, which, in turn, was an extended version of the 3160 UAZ-1997 model. The Patriot frame is essentially an extended version of the UAZ-469 frame of the 1972 model - they have spars that are absolutely identical in cross-section and profile; the difference is only in the insert and a couple of additional crossbars (and they were added only in 2017). In the near future, the Patriot is promised a new modern frame that will crumple and extinguish energy upon impact, and not break in a zigzag like the old one. The so-called "Russian Prado" project. Without it, it does not meet modern safety requirements.
  10. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 17 June 2020 19: 46 New
    +6
    We must not torment UAZ. Buy a full license for the old Prado, Patrol, Pajero ....
  11. kin
    kin 17 June 2020 20: 33 New
    +7
    What kind of UAZ was not at work. And tilt and loaves. This is not a car, this is grief. Maybe it was relevant 60 years ago. I will not list its shortcomings, just now the engine jammed on one loaf. And so constantly, it makes no difference what’s new or ten.
  12. Free wind
    Free wind 17 June 2020 20: 39 New
    +8
    I don’t know how on the old UAZ, but on the injection I hardly fit into 15 liters per hundred. The car was probably made with that ax. what's hanging in the cockpit. On the cross, much depends on the rubber. And the cross-axle locks, it seems they aren’t on the typewriter yet. Many solutions are somewhat strange. For example, the battery in the cabin, not closed by anything. There are times that they explode, as it does not smile to get a couple of liters of electrolyte in the face.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  13. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 17 June 2020 20: 41 New
    +2
    Great article! Thanks to the author. Very informative and interesting.
  14. Wolga
    Wolga 17 June 2020 20: 52 New
    15
    I just can't understand one thing, the Russian auto industry has exhausted itself ... Now all its attempts to revive is some kind of strange variation of perversion. Take a cheap foreign base, pereoblitsevat, put on the conveyor openly hacky components and proudly call some "unparalleled" name. Sense of reinventing the wheel? I agree with one of the commentators, what prevents you from buying a license for the old 80th Kruzak, for example? What prevents not to chase the flagships of the international car industry markets, respectively, inflating prices for new cars, and instead, to release (a terrible word!) SHIRPOTREB !. Yes, a cheap, really - CHEAP, but also a RELIABLE car! Tell me, was the Dodge 3/4 expensive during WWII in production in the United States? What prevents, on the redesigned base of the same Doge, to stick the simplest and most unkillable atmospheric diesel from Toyota? A box and a handout (I note, ALREADY INVENTED and WORKED in production) from the same Unimog? Power steering and brakes, stamping wherever possible! No climate ... ABS? ESP? sound insulation is bad ... What a grief ... But rushing a ton through the mud, it costs less than 500k, eats ANY SOLARA and is repaired on the knee! Or do you need pickups for 1.5 lam in the base for the army or the village?
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 17 June 2020 21: 45 New
      +6
      Quote: Wolga
      Climate, no ...

      I don’t know where how, but where I live (a suburb of New York City) there are days in the summer that you won’t survive without an air conditioner. Even in an open car, if not to drive, but to crawl. And in ordinary cars in such situevina neither open windows, nor even sunroofs in the roof can save, it’s like in a steam room, but under direct sun. So convertible with the top up and tightly closed windows on such days is a normal sight.
      Although air conditioning as an additional equipment can be shoved into almost everything, even in the USSR I saw a Zhigul 2107 with air conditioning, imported of course, but it was shoved! And what is worse than a goat? Do not kill Modera, in this case, the goat was not a transition to the individual, but the naming of such machines generally accepted from the time of the USSR.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 18 June 2020 10: 41 New
        +1
        Also, they compared the subtropical New York, lying on the latitude of Istanbul, Naples and Madrid, with the Russian climate. How can you compare the climate of New York with the climate of, for example, Moscow? This is despite the fact that by the standards of the United States, New York is a northern city, compared with all sorts of Houston and New Orleans, lying on the latitude of Cairo.
        1. Jager
          Jager 20 June 2020 17: 11 New
          +1
          A week of heat in Moscow for +30, wild stuffiness. No worse than this very Albuquerque.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 21 June 2020 02: 12 New
            0
            Albuquerque is located at an altitude of 1700 m above sea level, and therefore the climate there is not very hot, especially compared to the neighboring Phoenix and Houston.
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 17 June 2020 22: 09 New
      +1
      I agree .
      moving from small spoons and aircraft carriers in 70 tons, I am already beginning to resonate - here are the topics for the authors - THE RISE OF A NATIVE MASTER IS NOT only a box -abs-internal combustion engine, but also PERSONNEL TRAINING AND LICENSES (UNDER STAFF LEVEL AT A SPECIFIC MOMENT), CREATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE MARKET OF DOUBLE TECHNOLOGIES AND CONSTRUCTIONS BASED ON LICENSES - OWN, NOT a miscarriage "we have entered the world level"
      roll out articles about personnel for a week -VUZ-PTU-Academies- factory training centers + own equipment of factories (including "subcontractors") and equipment + materials in standards and GOSTs ++++ ... 1 place in the automotive industry pulls how many slaves of subcontractors and taxes in the country (synergy)? and how to raise the quality of assembly together with the development of forces and production relations? (joke)

      Until then, we’re reading about the favorite topics of the military-Moremans - "hookah from a pipe of 1500 mm" -Nord Stream2 "as if the military budget depends on Gazprom's revenues 100%.
      there is no desire to criticize the backwardness of their businessmen for the development of the country, there are articles - how to cut the dough, pipeline gas is certainly a long-term project, but still, all the same ..
  15. IC
    IC 17 June 2020 21: 07 New
    10
    For official needs, they bought, in due time, an UAZ Patriot with an open body. Options at the level of world standards, with foreign components. Very much regretted. Everything that was Russian flew, the build quality is poor, there is no service. They repaired a lot of money for repairs. They ate then sold. Lost a lot of money.
  16. nekromonger
    nekromonger 17 June 2020 21: 59 New
    +2
    what is the point of considering what is obsolete forty years ago?
  17. dgonni
    dgonni 17 June 2020 23: 14 New
    +2
    The problem with the UAZ is that, since the moment of gas 69, the Ulyanovsk machines have remained unchanged. The mass grew and the track power remained unchanged! What was good for the gas engine and the first 469x became bad for new developments.
    Here is an uncomfortable landing in a loaf
    Prone to overturning, etc.
    When switching to the 469th, it would not be very expensive to switch to bridges with at least 1600 mm gauge. The same razdatka with center differential simply asks for UAZ products. But things are still there.
    1. saygon66
      saygon66 18 June 2020 16: 01 New
      0
      - According to the driver's legend, UAZ was supposed to fit into the tank gauge - hence the size is ...
  18. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 17 June 2020 23: 47 New
    +1
    An ax over the driver’s neck - you can’t imagine it on purpose ... It looks like a symbol, and not only. With a light frontal impact, it will fall off the flimsy mounts and fly exactly there - to the neck. Maybe it's on purpose? laughing
  19. Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 18 June 2020 00: 10 New
    +4
    An interesting fact of development. However, the body of the van is new, the chassis is old. Although many manufacturers also make model changes ...
    The Austrian Steer reminded me too. By the way, their army jeep is almost a copy of Mercedes G.
    Steer vans and trucks are very inaccessible to the population, 1977 onwards cost over 1 million rubles.
    Regarding the legends, according to Defender and UAZ I agree. For Mercedes G and Wrangler I do not agree. Not so popular in the world. Wrangler until 2007, rather a jeep is not a utilitarian destination, but a youth, beach jeep for outdoor activities.
    Here Toyota LK -60, 70, 75 and Nissan Safari (Patrol) fit into a number of legends.
    With all the shortcomings, the Loaf is more accessible to the general public for the purposes of an au pair.
    Bridges with final drives (portal, military), of course, a good thing, but expensive.
    As for the convenience of the driver and passengers, the issue is debatable. The machine is a utilitarian, dual-purpose, originally designed for the military, their comfort and ergonomics are not in the first place.
    Regarding maintainability, "women's stockings instead of a generator belt", they carry all spare parts. For example, on MMS Pajero 95 onwards. the 4M40 engine drove Zhiguli V-belts, fit.
    Who drove a 90s Toyota High Suite pickup truck? For me, the driver's seat and seat were very uncomfortable, after 300 km my back ached as if I were unloading cars.
    The attempt of UAZ to create a "Prado killer" is ridiculous. Prado 120 and 150 are more likely for roads, not off-road.
    Let them work better on the quality of parts and assembly, expand the range of engines. The price for a Patriot of 1,5 million rubles, in my opinion, is overstated ...
  20. Falcond
    Falcond 18 June 2020 04: 12 New
    +7
    So look at the look and think .... maybe it's good that you lost
  21. 0389db
    0389db 18 June 2020 10: 49 New
    +1
    UAZ legend? Are you seriously?
    If he is a legend, then only in devouring gasoline, rotting speed and the number of breakdowns per 1km. the way.
    The domestic auto industry is dead and there is no need to try to save it, it is necessary to abolish the customs for imported cars. Then all these buckets of bolts, proudly called "Domestic cars" themselves disappear in half a year.
    And there, if you are lucky, someone from scratch will organize a new production of normal machines, or large brands will build their plants in our territory. Then in the conditions of real competition we will get normal cars for sane money.
    The price of 1,5 Lyamas for the new UAZ is more like a census of idiots than the real cost of a car.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 18 June 2020 12: 26 New
      +5
      Disrespectful, can we also buy potatoes from abroad, how do you buy? You repeat the mantra of the liberals of the Yeltsin era, who argued that "we have oil, why do we need our own production? We will sell oil and buy everything we need."
      And this is generally enchanting nonsense:
      And there, if you are lucky, someone from scratch will organize a new production of normal machines, or large brands will build their plants in our territory

      Well, of course! Let's hope we are lucky. And where the curve of the European dream will take wassat ... Did you think the same when you rode in 2013? Your anthem, by the way, is a continuous whining for good luck, like that "the enemies will evaporate like dew" and that "Ukraine has not yet died", that we will "panic" and other nonsense of infantiles wassat . The main thing according to your logic, you do not need to do anything, everything will be formed by itself.
      And by the way, you burned big with your confusion to put and not put soft signs. Only the Sumerians are so confused, who like to write Kharkiv without a soft sign, and Donetsk and Lugansk to write with a soft sign, "anyway, not like a Muscovite." wassat
      Then all these buckets of bolts, proudly called "Domestic cars" themselves disappear in half a year.
      A Russian will never make such a mistake. Especially the youngsters who grew up in the Square are laughing and, thank God, do not know the grammar of the Russian language, they immediately burn when they confuse the Russian "y" with the Movskaya "and", and write, for example, "mi". And at the same time they claim that they are the "officer's daughters" wassat . Faithful dear gallop, brothers! After 30 years, you will completely forget the Russian language and Runet will finally breathe free from Sumerian diarrhea. Well, at least the Poles and Czechs do not know Russian, otherwise their diarrhea was still not enough.
      1. kin
        kin 18 June 2020 20: 56 New
        0
        You are like Solovyov, he has a favorite song about Ukraine. The article is about UAZs ...
    2. Falcon5555
      Falcon5555 18 June 2020 18: 11 New
      +2
      The domestic auto industry is dead and there is no need to try to save it, it is necessary to abolish the customs for imported cars. Then all these buckets of bolts, proudly called "Domestic cars" themselves disappear in half a year.

      Nonsense. First, Gazelki are the saviors of small businesses. They need to put up a monument! Secondly, some Lada suddenly looked like cars. Thirdly, Kamaz is not bad for big business. Fourthly, the Urals are the saviors of the north. Fifth, Oise - yes: engineering nonsense, break, rot, dangerous; but if you live in a village, your own garage, a lot of free time on long winter evenings, you do not travel a lot and not far, there is no salt on the roads (or maybe there are no roads), then this is normal. Many people in the city ride them and do not know grief. Outwardly, the Patriots are good (until you start looking back and forth). Sixth, hardly anyone will organize a new production of "normal machines" by himself. In the current situation (as you know, we are now modernizing, a leap forward and "there is no time to swing"), and those that were (car assembly) are only closed, one after another.
      1. 0389db
        0389db 19 June 2020 04: 18 New
        0
        Gazelles are the saviors of small business. Looking from which side to look, cancel customs duties and then Ford Transit, Fiat Ducato, Volkswagen Transporter and many others will stand in line with the Gazelles at a price. It is unlikely that anyone will buy a gazelle after that.
        Frets suddenly became like cars The same thing, depending on what to compare, if with a logan, then yes they became similar, if with normal machines, then no.
        Kamaz And what remains of Russian in them? imported motor, imported transmission, half of the remaining components, too. And in general, what large companies use Kamaz? All large cargo carriers on mans, Mercia, scans, Volvo, etc.
        Urals - Savior of the North I can’t say anything for the Urals, since I don’t own the information, but I don’t think that the situation is very different from the Kamaz.
        Oise - if you live in a village I live in a village and I don’t need UAZ for nothing, I have two 30-year-old Toyota cars in my family, and believe Patriot to evolve to the level of these 20 years another XNUMX years and it’s not a fact what happens.
        Sixthly, it is unlikely that someone will organize a new production by himself The market cannot be empty, the need for cars will only increase. He will build the same factory with us in order not to go to customs and get the opportunity to participate in any state programs. In the end, someone will buy a license for old models of normal cars and will be releasing them here.
        1. Lynx2000
          Lynx2000 19 June 2020 07: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: 0389db
          Gazelles are the saviors of small business. Looking from which side to look ...
          ......
          and will release them here.

          Yes, Gazelles are cheaper and more affordable as used. I don’t think Ford Transit, Fiat Ducato or Volkswagen Transporter vans are better than Gazelles in quality. On Dukaty, the paint is on the second year. The bodies are load-bearing and weak. These manufacturers offer few options for flatbed trucks, and they are more in demand and cheaper in small commercial transportations. For example, the Japanese have more choices from onboard micro-trucks ...
          Regarding Lada, Logan, everyone has their own concept of the "normality" of a car. Someone and fresh Qashqai after Kruzak - balalaika.
          For example, in the lineup of Grants, Logan, Datsun On-do (Grant), Almeria and other classmates in the basic configuration - the same balalaika, rotting and breaking.
          In Kamaz I agree with their problem engines. My brother and I installed a YaMZ diesel engine on Kamazai (Afghan), though we raised the cockpit at exhibitions.
          The consumer himself is determined with the choice, based on finances, tasks of work. Someone interferes in the state program and through leasing acquires domestic cars. How do you feel about Chinese cars? Hovo and Shanksi are a good buy.
          In world practice, it so happened that partialization occurs in the production of components and assemblies. For example, Toyota is involved in jatco, but automatic transmissions are supplied to many automakers.
          UAZ, as a rule, used zero years is more or less accessible to residents of settlements with gravel, country roads and impassable roads. Gazelles and Sables are not suitable.
          My brother and I in Siberia share a UAZ Loaf for off-road driving, for example, to an apiary. The road is mountainous with ascents, forest and clay. Yes, the engine is weak, it heats up, consumes oil (a year ago the engine was capitalized), it won't take out a ton. Therefore, he went as a couple on his Pajero with a trailer. Now I am picking up the version of MMC Carter 4,2 liters, a two-cabin bridge or a Toyota Dean similar. Then we will "chop" the Loaf.
          If it's not a secret, what kind of SUVs are 30 year olds?
          I now select Kruzak 80 or Patrol for work in Kamchatka, only gasoline ones.
          It seems that Toyota is collecting Camry and something else ...
          It’s not enough to buy licenses, but you also need to grow your designers.
          For example, Hyundai Halopper - a licensed copy of Pajero, as a full-fledged frame jeep was not bad. Now only crossovers.
          1. 0389db
            0389db 19 June 2020 08: 30 New
            0
            Someone and fresh Qashqai after Kruzak is a balalaika. Qashqai is a balalaika, in general a crossover is a puzoter with high self-esteem.
            For example, in the lineup of Grants, Logan, Datsun On-do (Grant), Almeria and other classmates in the basic configuration - the same balalaika, rotting and breaking. I completely agree, but they are at the same time approximately the same. Now let’s mentally remove the customs fees from the price of all foreign cars and these supposedly competitors will be at least 30% cheaper. Who will buy the basin, if for the money it will be possible to buy the same Skoda, or Elantra? And if you add a little bit, then there will be enough for the Camry and a lot of what else.
            How do you feel about Chinese cars? It is still not very good, but for another 5 years and even in the current situation, they will become a cut above in all respects than any Russian car.
            If it's not a secret, what kind of SUVs are 30 year olds? Toyota Surf in the 130th body, my wife has a diesel engine gasoline. Both cars are prepared for travel and off-road, are used for their intended purpose, plow open spaces of Siberia. Both cars in the family for more than 10 years, my wife runs 20-25 thousand a year, I have 50-60 tkm / year.
            My brother and I in Siberia have a common UAZ Loaf for off-road driving The UAZ is suitable only for riding in the circle of the village, so that if something happens, you could go on foot for help. For 3 years already, we haven’t taken UAZs and cornfields with us either on a trip or on a ride, tired of losing time all the time because of them and dragging them along with us on a rope. They can’t physically drive 1-2 thousand km. on the asphalt, ride a couple of weeks on the road and go back without damage. About the hauls of 5-7 thousand one way, I generally keep quiet.
            1. Lynx2000
              Lynx2000 19 June 2020 08: 49 New
              0
              The West also holds customs duties on its borders, as it is one of the instruments of the state to regulate the economy. For me, let's say Grant’s classmates that Skoda (Octavia) or Hyundai Elantra will be the same there. Skoda are going to Kaluga.
              Surf in a 130 body, in my opinion, began to be produced since 1992.
              Diesel seemed to be 2 liters., 2 with a turbine and 2,8 (KZT). Gasoline 2,7 3 or 3,4 liters?
              I am writing that for the village, the auxiliary (equipment, nurse, etc.) while the machine is not accessible to people.
              Of course, on a long journey it’s hard for one.
              While there is no four-wheel drive Japanese, the UAZ is not a pity to "hammer".
              1. 0389db
                0389db 19 June 2020 09: 17 New
                0
                Surf in a 130 body, in my opinion, began to be produced since 1992. From 90 or from 89 in general, 92 was restyled.
                Diesel seemed to be 2 liters., 2 with a turbine and 2,8 (KZT). Gasoline 2,7 3 or 3,4 liters?
                The diesel engines were 2,4 liters of atmospheric 2L turbo 2LT and 2LTE, 3L 1KZ and 1KZTE my car is just on 1KZTE.
                Beni 2l 3Y, 3YE, 2,2l 22R and 22RE, 3l 3VZE from his wife's 3YE motor.
                Of course, on a long journey it’s hard for one. Yes, there is nothing heavy, the main desire. Last summer, my wife and I unexpectedly had a great vacation of 3 weeks, without hesitation we gathered the children, jumped into her car and drove to Georgia. The trip took 15 km, across half the country, the children are delighted, we actually too. In the Lada, or even more so in the UAZ, even new ones, I would not have dared, but I sat down and went on a hot dog, without any preliminary preparation. Here's the situation ....... 000 years old car, half a million on the odometer, 30 ktm in 15 weeks, without any technical problems whatsoever. Can anyone on the UAZ or fret repeat this?
                ps The car was bought 10 years ago. for 190 rubles.
                item 2 Now the price of such a machine is 250 rubles.
                1. Lynx2000
                  Lynx2000 19 June 2020 10: 38 New
                  0
                  See above, wrote about the Loaf and the long road.
                  1KZTE is not quite 3 liters, somewhere around 2,8 with cubic centimeters. They were also put on Toyota Hayes trucks and minibuses.
                  Surf, Runner and High Lux pickup uncomfortable cars, low and uncomfortable seats, narrow interior. Drive 4vd Part-time system. This is uncomfortable for me. Also see above wrote about the pickup, drove.
                  1. 0389db
                    0389db 19 June 2020 12: 09 New
                    0
                    Surf, Runner and High Lux pickup uncomfortable cars, low and uncomfortable seats, narrow interior Everything is subjective, it’s quite convenient for me, 1600 km in 20 hours without any problems, which doesn’t numb or hurt. Hailux has a simpler interior and other seats, on the surf there is an adjustment of the side and lumbar support on the seat.
                    The salon is the same width as on Padzherik, Teran and Teran of the same years. The height of the cabin is not big, I agree, but again, only the Pajero has a higher cabin. But due to the small body height, the car has a very low center of gravity and even being lifted under 35 "wheels, with a loaded roof rack, it calmly passes the slopes, on which a standard patriot lies on his side.
                    Drive 4vd Part-time system. This is uncomfortable for me. Again, the question of "religion" I personally don't really need full-time, did it wash away at idle every day to twist a bunch of excess iron? In the surf, the four-wheel drive is switched on and off from the button at speeds up to 100 km / h. without leaving the salon, what may not be convenient here, I personally do not understand. You are driving on a good road with rear-wheel drive, the front is disconnected, the cardan does not rotate, there are no unnecessary noise and vibrations, drove off the road, pressed the button and now you are on all-wheel drive. I drove completely into the jungle, cut in the lowering, locked the bridges and crawled for myself on the sly.
                    1. Lynx2000
                      Lynx2000 19 June 2020 13: 37 New
                      +1
                      what
                      A question on a previous post about a trip to Georgia through a half-country of 15000 km. Where is the start from?
                      The length of the Vladivostok-Moscow railway is almost 9000 km.
                      I visited Surf '95 c. back in 130 body, diesel 2LT, 14 years ago. Now I drive an office High Suite pickup '93 onwards. on bridges, gasoline 3 liters. The front seats are the same. MMS Pajero, '98 diesel 2,8 turbo with manual transmission was super-select equipment. Pajero's interior is definitely wider and more space. Pajero is Krusere's classmate, Safari. Surf, Prado, Terrano, Mistarl, Izuzu Mu will be lower class.
                      35th rubber for Surf is tin! In theory, gear ratios are changed for such dimensions, an elevator is calculated, etc.
                      Regarding the part-time, such a jeep does not have a front axle differential, therefore, on paved roads, move at speeds of no more than 80-100 km. I do not remember on Surf full locks ...
                      On a winter track where mixed asphalt is mixed, the indicated snow or a small cross-wheel drive is preferable
                      1600 km in 20 hours ... Actually, in our "servers" spring-summer-autumn on a grader (gravel highway) a distance of 750 km in 9 hours is covered, only 3 settlements and 2 gas stations.
                      1. 0389db
                        0389db 19 June 2020 18: 09 New
                        0
                        15000 km is the whole trip from Kemerovo to Georgia and back.
                        Pajero cannot be a classmate to safari and eighties, he is 100% a classmate of surf. Almost the same dimensions and weight, similar engines and transmission, similar suspension and interior equipment. Mitsubishi simply has no analogue to Kruzak and patrol.
                        Here is my car on 35 "wheels
                        https://cloud.mail.ru/stock/a8aHTZNiF5CXqxCWGSBJKLoa
                        The car is prepared, so it is pavement and both bridges have forced electric interlocks, main pairs 5,29, 2 winches, 2 tanks, with a total volume of 220 liters, 2 independent fuel lines, 2 batteries, 2 generators, 2 stoves, power kit, hydraulic preparation. My wife has a simpler car, a 4 "lift on the suspension, 33" wheels, rear axle blocking, hydraulic training.
                      2. Lynx2000
                        Lynx2000 19 June 2020 22: 39 New
                        0
                        Wow, almost fellow countrymen! No, disagree Pajero (aka Monterey) a classmate of Cruiser and Safari. Carefully look at its ratio with Surf in terms of weight, dimensions, interior volume and wheelbase. The gasoline engine of 3,5 liters in power is comparable to Kruzakovsky 4,5 liters.
                        I'll see the link ...
                      3. Lynx2000
                        Lynx2000 20 June 2020 01: 53 New
                        0
                        Quote: 0389db

                        Here is my car on 35 "wheels
                        https://cloud.mail.ru/stock/a8aHTZNiF5CXqxCWGSBJKLoa
                        The machine is prepared, so it is a bridge and both bridges have forced electric locks, the main pairs are 5,29, 2 winches, 2 tanks, with a total volume of 220 liters, 2 independent fuel lines, 2 batteries,

                        The link in the Cloud was a file with other information. How much did such an investment cost? Legalized?
                        My brother and I are in the basic configuration (his Pajero and my H3). So we have to "knead the dirt" is caused by production necessity. 33rd tires on H3 - standard. Axial locks and differential. Tuning in "Arctic truck" is ordered for Sunday outings ...
                      4. 0389db
                        0389db 20 June 2020 02: 48 New
                        0
                        The cost of improvements is purely in detail, somewhere around 500 rubles, the work is free, I did it myself.
                        H3 is very heavy for dirt, which is why I chose the surf, the minimum weight with quite solid dimensions. In order for the H3 to go, he needs 37-38 "wheels. A friend has a Kruzak 80 with a motor from H1 on 40" wheels, it goes about the same as my surf on 35 ", weight is everything.
                      5. Lynx2000
                        Lynx2000 20 June 2020 09: 52 New
                        0
                        I do not agree. H3, unlike H2, is really a workhorse, assembled on GM from the nodes and assemblies of proven jeeps. Normally goes through the mud. Rubber Danlop 285x75x16 A / T with chains 4 pcs. leads well, there is no break in the cord and on the pavement is not afraid of pits. It is equal to Prado, Surf, Runner. There was a choice to bring the H3 or Toyota FJ Cruiser 2008-10 (there is a front axle off and permanent all-wheel drive). The choice of price-quality for H3 (3,7 l. Max. Equipment, locks). He brought from Canada to Kamchatka, traveled, sent home to Siberia. The FJ models until 2013 have a structural defect, deformation of the front of the body.
                        For Kruzakovsky diesel 4,2, sort of like 1HZ and 1HD (diesel 80, 105 and 70).
                        Regarding disputes, what solves the problem of patency, weight, rubber, engine, elevator, transmission or chassis. I think, as my grandfather taught me to drive the IZH-412: "it was not the bobbin, the dolt was sitting in the cockpit."
                        PS I tried to attach a photo of our "seats in the mud" earlier in the comments, but it didn't work ...
                        wink
                        Once again, Surf's (Ranner )’s not so solid dimensions ?!
                      6. 0389db
                        0389db 20 June 2020 10: 57 New
                        0
                        There is really some kind of problem with the photos, they are not attached.
                        A 4.2 diesel in an 40 with 1 "wheels turned out to be weak, a friend threw it out and put a 6,2 liter V8 from HXNUMX, he drove normal.
                        I agree about the patency, 90% depends on the driver and you can drive almost anywhere, on anything, the only question is the expended forces, the time lost and the injuries sustained. Where near-deck cars are heroically chopped, overheating the engines, tearing off the bumper and breaking the suspension, I just go, admire the scenery and relax. But where we start chopping up on the prepared cars, there are no more standard ones there, they just don't get there.
                        Gasoline, or diesel, is also a question of religion and tasks. Gasoline on a real lack of food eats a lot, 30-40 liters per hundred, any, so the radius of the pokatushek is very limited. Almost all diesel engines fit into 15-16 liters, so 220 liters in the tanks guarantee 1000 km of travel almost always and you don’t need to carry any canisters with you.
                      7. Lynx2000
                        Lynx2000 20 June 2020 11: 25 New
                        0
                        recourse
                        Honestly, I have never heard about the installation of an engine from H1 to the Cruiser 80 ...
                        Very interesting. If possible, in July (August - early September) I will be in Novosibirsk, then in Altai. I often travel to Novokuznetsk and Belovo. I would like to see, if not against.
                        Regarding gasoline engines, for example, some traction at low speeds, plus a reduced one. Also, there are fewer problems with solarium, it is not so hot even at branded gas stations (fur impurities, water, other fuel). As a result: replacement of the plunger with a high-pressure fuel pump, repair and pressure testing of injectors. In winter, we don't cut circles with a "tambourine" and Webasta and you don't stink with solarium. I already have enough diesels. On diesel engines, the problem of overheating of the internal combustion engine heads, Toyota 2LT, 1KZT are no exception, it breaks through the gasket, fistulas and cracks in the rear chamber and injectors.
                        Well, don’t drive through the forest clearings ...
                        My Н3 on gravel at a speed of 1500 no more than 2500 consumes no more than 14 liters. per 100 km.
                        85 liters is quite enough for "performing a tactical task", and now there are a lot of cans to choose from.
                        You know, some stocks will give odds to your pre-made.
                      8. 0389db
                        0389db 20 June 2020 13: 20 New
                        0
                        You can meet without problems if I do not leave for Altai or Baikal. I visit Belovo 2 times a week at work, in Yurg and Anzherk at least once, sometimes in Novokuznetsk.
                        In general, write to e-mail [email protected] we’ll talk there, it’s already good to clog the topic.
  • TOR2
    TOR2 22 June 2020 22: 41 New
    0
    Quote: 0389db
    Toyota Surf in the 130th body, my wife has a diesel engine gasoline. Both cars are prepared for travel and off-road, are used for their intended purpose, plow open spaces of Siberia

    How much money and effort have you invested to prepare Toyota well for off-road? And how much did you put in a loaf? In addition, in general. That is why you only ride it around the village.
  • Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 19 June 2020 14: 13 New
    +2
    I will not interfere in a competent conversation that I read with interest. I will just note that Transit and others are unlikely to be comparable in price, and I have not seen any of them at all onboard trucks (someone already said). Besides, as far as I know, there have never been any prohibitive duties on new cars. And besides, macroeconomically, "according to the Hamburg account", the country cannot only consume - then it will not have the money to buy what is consumed. About the Urals - type "youtube roads of the north" in Yandex, and you can watch it endlessly. There are also four-wheel drive Kamaz trucks. Wheeled vehicles also come across the Kirovets tractors - also an underestimated contraption. I have not yet mentioned the Paz and Liases - they are useful in rural, suburban, and urban transportation. About Oise and 30-year-old toyotas - I live in a big city, and I have two housemates who drive patriots for many years and do not complain, and I have not seen 30-year-old Toyota cars in the area at all. Sincerely.
    1. Lynx2000
      Lynx2000 20 June 2020 14: 13 New
      +1
      He wrote that all-metal vans Transit, Ducato or Transporter frameless, the body bearing. Ford Transit 2018 release onboard seen only once. There was no time to look, but as I understand it, he was as if half-frame. A cabin with reinforced side members, brackets behind it, a frame bolted to them ... Of course, an onboard truck will be cheaper than an all-metal van.
      But, the quality of modern imported vans is not better than the Gazelle (engines, body deformation, transmission and suspension, the quality of the paint coating).
      There are import duties on trucks, but lower. For example, when importing a pickup truck (Toyota Tundra, Ford F, Dodge Ram), one of the conditions should be that the body length is 30 cm more than the wheelbase.
      Tractors, a separate topic. MTZ collected in Belarus is no longer shining with quality. With a lot of new trouble, butter is whipping from wherever it can.
      The Russian assembly is also of poor quality, "Sarex" MTZ-1221 (120 hp) as a universal row-crop with a front girder axle, in theory, should have been good, and even compete with the KhTZ T-150 (150 hp) ...
      New Kirovets is not much cheaper than John Deere or Kaas. They even delivered it to Germany.
      On what agricultural enterprises and peasant farms "plow"? Not agricultural holdings. They plow (mow) on the equipment of the 80s: K-700, T-150, MTZ, DT-75, T-4 and T-40 (A). How RosSelkhozBank and Rosagroleasing work is a separate topic.
      Patriots, Hunters and Loafs complain, but there is no alternative and finances do not allow. Mostly used and resold used. Kruzaki, Safari, Patroli, Pajero and the other 90s are still running around the expanses of Russia. Moreover, their resource is higher than modern counterparts, which can be called jeeps conditionally. But this is the merit or fault of marketers who sell the brand and status based on the reputation of the model, the same Land Cruiser.
      1. 0389db
        0389db 20 June 2020 19: 12 New
        0
        So it is, in fact, really reliable and passable cars on the market did not remain. You can no longer buy a real SUV. Geliki seems to have given up, the new TLC70 with a normal engine does not go to Russia in ecology, and with an engine from two hundred they are not needed. There are new patrols in the cloned version, but the same ecology prevents them from being brought.
        Here it is, in theory, a sought after world niche, currently empty. Anyone who again produces a real SUV, reliable and not very expensive, will earn a lot of degeg, but it will definitely not be an UAZ.
  • TOR2
    TOR2 22 June 2020 22: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: 0389db
    Gazelles are the saviors of small business. Looking from which side to look, cancel customs duties and then Ford Transit, Fiat Ducato, Volkswagen Transporter and many others will stand in line with the Gazelle. It is unlikely that anyone will buy a gazelle after that.

    And let's look on the other hand, as you suggest.
    Our companies began to supply foil to Europe. As the competitors there did not spin, our foil turned out to be of high quality and cheaper. Then protective taxes were introduced against ours, and something no one proposed to abolish them.
    1. 0389db
      0389db 25 June 2020 11: 45 New
      0
      As a result, European consumers pay extra money just because their manufacturers cannot compete with ours. And we pay extra money for cars, precisely because our manufacturers can not provide decent quality for sane money.
      As a result, all the shortcomings of large manufacturers are compensated by the consumer. Personally, as a consumer to me, it does not matter who gets my money in the end, I need to get a product that suits me in terms of quality and affordable price. I don’t want to pay extra money because someone in this niche is not competitive, but I don’t want my own, native, domestic.
  • jurijsv
    jurijsv 18 June 2020 14: 12 New
    0
    An attempt to cross "Loaf" with RAFik?
  • saygon66
    saygon66 18 June 2020 15: 57 New
    +2
    - The ax behind the driver’s seat delivered! wassat
    - And so the machine looks like a Volvo Laplander:

    - By the way, the Creators of Pinzgauer solved the problem of increasing capacity by adding another axis ...
  • Free wind
    Free wind 18 June 2020 16: 37 New
    +1
    Not a fan, well, not a fonat. But I like the loaf. Of course it’s difficult to repair .. It’s not repairable, well, quite a farmer, I like it. Eats a lot, well, I don’t pay much attention to comfort, hardy. Cool car. Recently, even though the stove was made normal. Even 20 degrees is tolerable .. But in Siberia it is necessary to put an extra stove.