Military Review

China decided to compare Su-35 and J-10C fighters in training aerial combat

77

From China, reports have come that the PLA air force decided to conduct training aerial battles, in which J-10C and Su-35 fighters took part. Also in the simulated air battle involved and J-16 aircraft. At the same time, the Chinese media claim that both the J-10C and J-16 "showed themselves worthy."


For what purposes did the command decide to arrange such an “air battle”?


We are talking about the battle, which, as stated, was carried out in order to assess the combat characteristics of aircraft belonging to the same generation of fighter aviation.

J-10C aircraft - the development of the J-10 fighter line, the first samples of which began to be produced in China since 2002. The latest version - J-10C - differs from the previous ones in that Chinese manufacturers are trying to implement low visibility technology on it. The fighter is assigned to generation 4 ++.

The Chinese press reports that the reduced radar visibility supposedly helped the J-10C "achieve success in the confrontation with the Su-35." It is noted that the allegedly Russian-made aircraft pilot J-10C in several episodes of the training confrontation was discovered "first", which "gave an advantage in the simulation of a missile attack."

At the same time, China notes that the J-10C has a big minus in comparison with the Su-35. This minus proved itself during the training battle. It's about engines. The thrust of Russian-made AL-41F1S engines significantly exceeds this figure for Chinese-made WS-10B power plants, which are used on the latest versions of the J-10C. Accordingly, the Su-35 demonstrated high maneuverability indicators, which “in a number of episodes” allowed him to get away from the strike.

In fact, attempts to compare the Su-35 and the J-10C in the PLA Air Force look “far-fetched." After all, these aircraft vary significantly in weight. If the mass of the "empty" Su-35 is about 19 tons, then the mass of the "empty" J-10C is about 9 tons.
77 comments
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  1. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 16 June 2020 09: 32 New
    12
    At the same time, the Chinese media claim that both the J-10C and J-16 "showed themselves worthy."

    Does that mean losing? In general, it would be interesting to equip the J-10C turbojet engine AL 41 ...
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 16 June 2020 09: 34 New
      10
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Does that mean losing?

      The main thing is not victory, but participation!
    2. Berber
      Berber 16 June 2020 09: 37 New
      21
      Decent, but probably lost. If the Chinese had even a chance to put the 35th in an unfavorable light, then they would have done it for sure.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 16 June 2020 09: 38 New
        +5
        Surprisingly, they did not run their J-20 on the Su35C.
        1. Starover_Z
          Starover_Z 16 June 2020 09: 48 New
          15
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Surprisingly, they did not run their J-20 on the Su35C.

          If they did not manage to win a convincing victory on airplanes from the previous generation, which turn out to be almost 2 times lighter than ours, then substitute their very-most airplanes ... It turns out they just did not dare ....
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 16 June 2020 11: 39 New
            +1
            Why didn’t you dare? Why are you scared?
            I do not believe that they did not try.
        2. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 16 June 2020 10: 15 New
          12
          Maybe they did it, but they won’t start spreading it to us.
        3. sav
          sav 16 June 2020 10: 19 New
          +3
          It is surprising that they did not run their J-20 on the Su35C

          It is the matter of time.
        4. Kurare
          Kurare 16 June 2020 13: 56 New
          +6
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Surprisingly, they did not run their J-20 on the Su35C.

          There are no facts, but I’m even sure we did it. With the disclosure of secrets related to national security, the Chinese are doing well. We will not learn about the results of such "battles" soon.
          1. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 16 June 2020 23: 35 New
            +5
            There would be success - already fanfare would blow
            Apparently, not adequately shown ...
        5. Outsider
          Outsider 17 June 2020 04: 08 New
          0
          - And who told you that they did not break in ?! lol
    3. aviator6768
      aviator6768 17 June 2020 00: 39 New
      +1
      Well, they can’t copy the second stage of the compressor .. They can’t ... Everyone is copying, but here - plug! Not all sneakers are Chinese! Who was arguing with me there? AU! Where are you? 117 product is weak F1 - bought all the drawings, but the point ...
      1. Drёma
        Drёma 17 June 2020 06: 39 New
        +1
        So they bought something F1-31. The 41st could only be in the form of a Su-35 and without documentation.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 17 June 2020 07: 46 New
          0
          And plus 2 pcs to the aircraft spare
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 17 June 2020 09: 40 New
            0
            Evil languages ​​say that 6 more engines per plane went into the purchase kit.
            1. V.I.P.
              V.I.P. 17 June 2020 10: 16 New
              0
              Purchased 4 add. engine to every plane. But usually they buy 2 extra for a twin-engine and one for a single-engine ..... When they are removed for maintenance, they put the second set. He flies, then everything in a circle ...
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 17 June 2020 23: 04 New
                0
                I will not argue, I read exactly what about a set of 6 engines plus for each aircraft.
            2. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 17 June 2020 10: 27 New
              0
              Quite ... there the price of the contract was like on F35
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 17 June 2020 12: 15 New
                0
                The Chinese will sell the F-35? F-35 is sold only to privileged vassals.
                1. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek 17 June 2020 12: 19 New
                  0
                  I mean that the price at which the Su35C was sold was high
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 17 June 2020 12: 26 New
                    0
                    Let them find cheaper. Again, we do not know the scope of delivery. And remember the price of a contract for Rafal
    4. Miron
      Miron 17 June 2020 08: 06 New
      +1
      Well, of course it can be done. But the sturdy skeleton of a Chinese aircraft will not cope with the loads. If you bring the skeleton in strength, it will become so heavy that changing the engine will become meaningless.
      To change the engine, and get an advantage on this, the Chinese have a lot to learn.
  2. ApJlekuHo
    ApJlekuHo 16 June 2020 09: 35 New
    +2
    And pilots, they will compare IQ test?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 16 June 2020 09: 37 New
      +4
      And there their pilots are everywhere ...
      1. ApJlekuHo
        ApJlekuHo 16 June 2020 09: 39 New
        0
        Are they also riveted in factories with the same layout? Without bad habbits?
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 16 June 2020 09: 41 New
          0
          Well. if you take their scale and compare with ours ..... it may turn out that yes. by virtue of numbers.
  3. Avior
    Avior 16 June 2020 09: 47 New
    0
    In fact, attempts to compare the Su-35 and J-10C in the PLA air force look a lot "far-fetched." After all, these aircraft vary significantly in weight.

    and are they weighed before the fight, or what?
    1. bayard
      bayard 16 June 2020 10: 07 New
      +7
      There is nothing strange in the fights, the Su-27s were also tested and compared with the MiG-29s in training battles. In real conditions, no one knows what type of encounter will be in battle, and the fact that a heavy fighter not only showed long-range and medium-range advantage, but also twisted a light one in close combat - an unconditional sign of the highest quality.
      Apparently, therefore, the Chinese are going to buy another batch of Su-35 ... and more engines for them - it is necessary to put something more worthwhile on their J-20.
      1. Avior
        Avior 16 June 2020 10: 36 New
        0
        if you believe the article, the Chinese say that the J-10 EPR is less and avionics is better
        1. bayard
          bayard 16 June 2020 15: 18 New
          0
          EPR - less, it is easy.
          And about the "best avionics" ... the 80-year-old grandfather also told his 70-year-old neighbor that he could with his grandmother ...
          Everyday !
          After all, we have everything too - having no analogues in the world. smile
          Learn ... lol
        2. Miron
          Miron 17 June 2020 08: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: NEOZ
          ps
          Why are owners of large cars with large engines in no hurry to transfer to cheap small cars? - after all, in a small car it’s cheaper !!!!!!!!

          why the owners are very transplanted.
          Because it’s cheaper. Same.
          But here they are (n) transplanted there, wow.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 16 June 2020 15: 13 New
        0
        And they say they will buy another batch?
        1. bayard
          bayard 16 June 2020 17: 29 New
          +1
          While they say. The Chinians do not get the "stone flower" - the engines do not work, but they quarreled with the USA - suddenly there is a war ... Let them think.
          Decide - sell.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 16 June 2020 17: 50 New
            0
            Declared that was the last deal to buy aircraft.
    2. Miron
      Miron 17 June 2020 08: 10 New
      0
      and are they weighed before the fight, or what?

      Only in negligee?
  4. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 16 June 2020 09: 47 New
    -11
    "The Russian-made aircraft by the pilot J-10C was discovered" first "in several episodes of the training confrontation, which" gave an advantage when simulating a missile attack. "////
    ----
    Therefore, the production of the Su-57 has begun.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 16 June 2020 09: 55 New
      +1
      You could start by installing AFAR on the Su35S. I think that they will do so in the end.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 16 June 2020 10: 11 New
        +2
        As the Squirrel goes into the series, so they will think about the modernity of the Su-35. I still believe that the rejection of the modernity of the existing Su-27 by the installation of the FAR Pero radar on the SU-N-001 radar is a serious mistake. I hope the Air Force realized this.
        1. bayard
          bayard 16 June 2020 17: 33 New
          -1
          Perhaps they realized, but the old Su-27s do not have long to go, and you can't put the Irbis on a regular Su-27 - the energy needs to be changed. So the plans apparently meant the schedule for the arrival of new aircraft with new avionics, and the gradual write-off of the old ones.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 16 June 2020 17: 35 New
            0
            At a minimum what had to be done to upgrade the existing Swords N-001 with the installation of the PHAR Perot
          2. Miron
            Miron 17 June 2020 08: 21 New
            +1
            The United States is updating its Fe-15s and is not bothering.
            And our blacksmiths will decide for the time being what "unparalleled" place to blind their colleagues with, they will be left without the place that is being placed in the Su-27 today.
            Apparently they themselves want to become the same, having no analogues. Not at all.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 June 2020 10: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Therefore, the production of the Su-57 has begun.


      That’s not why. How can I draw conclusions without knowing all the circumstances and conditions of the exercises, I do not understand ....
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 16 June 2020 12: 01 New
        0
        Everything in sight:
        The Su-35 has a large EPR.
        The Su-57 has a small EPR.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 16 June 2020 12: 07 New
          +3
          What is all?
          Somehow you simplify everything. Then why stupid people from USNAVY, so in your opinion? Continue to order the Hornets?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 16 June 2020 12: 19 New
            +1
            The Hornets continue to order, because the schedule for the arrival of the F-35S in the fleet is far behind the planned one (the marine version of the F-35 will receive initial combat readiness last three years later than the F-35A). Old Hornets are decommissioned and replaced with Superhornets and F-35S as they arrive
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 16 June 2020 12: 23 New
              +3
              This is not an explanation at all.
              1. Avior
                Avior 17 June 2020 09: 34 New
                -4
                just an explanation.
                no one was going to immediately change the Superhornets to f-35.
                They were replacing the old Hornets.
                The f-35 is too long, and the Superhornets still have enough resources.
                as they wear, they will change considering the production capabilities of the f-35.
                F-35s initially ordered only 250 units for the fleet, which is 2 dozen per aircraft carrier on average.
                The superhornets are modernizing, there is also an order for a limited batch of new ones, just because of the lag of the f-35s program
            2. Miron
              Miron 17 June 2020 08: 38 New
              0
              Sorry, where did you see the data that
              Old Hornets write off

              Until now, the only aircraft that the United States "wrote off" was the A-10. It was written off until the airworthiness was extended until the year 2050, replacing the engines with 2x power and 1/2 fuel consumption, a composite wing, and a strong skeleton for reinforcement, allowing it to cope with 2x overloads from the parent.
              1. Avior
                Avior 17 June 2020 09: 51 New
                -4
                The U.S. Navy writes off the latest F / A-18C Hornet carrier-based fighters. Yesterday, January 30, the portal navaltoday.com announced that on February 1, the US Navy will hold an official farewell ceremony with the Hornets.
                In the late 90s, the U.S. Navy began to receive a deeply modernized version of the F / A-18 fighter, better known as Super Hornet. Until recently, the 34th Blue Blasters Squadron (Strike Fighter Squadron 34) remained the last operating unit to operate the old Hornets. Now the turn has come to replace them with Super Hornet.
        2. yfast
          yfast 16 June 2020 19: 17 New
          0
          This is if they will be measured by EPR. And if the first one can detect the second one at the launch range, and the second of the first one long before that, then the second one will just be nervous too much time. If the second one has an active radar, then how will it differ from the first? How do they discover each other?
          1. Avior
            Avior 17 June 2020 09: 53 New
            -4
            detection is not so simple.
            different ranges with different mutual flight paths
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 June 2020 23: 02 New
              0
              From about the 14th, about the pastel began to detect the operation of the AFAR radar in LPI mode ... So there’s a lot of telepuziki, we’ve arrived ...
        3. Outsider
          Outsider 17 June 2020 04: 11 New
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Everything in sight:
          The Su-35 has a large EPR.
          The Su-57 has a small EPR.

          - Not "large", but "large" - EPR - it is the effective scattering surface. laughing
    3. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 16 June 2020 10: 28 New
      +4
      There is one thing but, a Chinese aircraft may be less noticeable but obviously not at times. But the radar power in them differs very much and clearly not in favor of the Chinese aircraft, and this affects the detection range also very much. And there are containers with EW on drying. The light fighter radar should be stupidly muffled.
      Conclusion: someone is not negotiating something or lying.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 16 June 2020 12: 20 New
        +2
        Right. If the enemy is trying to soar the mosque with invisibility, you can respond by increasing the power of the radar.
      2. Outsider
        Outsider 25 June 2020 10: 51 New
        0
        - Where did you get that the Chinese aircraft radar - low power? The J-10B actually has a radar with AFAR, which Sukhoi’s planes dream of only in erotic dreams ... wink
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 25 June 2020 12: 28 New
          +1
          AFAR does not mean high power.
          According to the information that Chinese analogues of Su30 / 35 have in the public domain, there are radars with AFAR but with an average power of about two kilowatts. I don’t know for sure about this fighter, but most likely even less. The Su-35 has an average radiation power of five kilowatts in a viewing sector of 240 square degrees.
  5. Vita vko
    Vita vko 16 June 2020 09: 53 New
    +4
    It would be much more objective to analyze the results of Aviadarts-2019.
    Russian pilots have become the best in fighter, bomber, long-range and army aviation in combat helicopters. The Chinese crews won in the military transport aviation. Belarusian and Kazakh pilots won first place in army aviation in transport-combat helicopters and in attack aviation, respectively.
    In addition to gold medals, the Russian team won four silver medals and two bronze medals. Crews from China - two silver and bronze, Belarusian and Kazakh pilots - one each.
    And the Chinese J-10 just participated in the competition. Maybe the Chinese authors should have asked their pilots about the reasons for the loss, and only then publish the "far-fetched" data.
    1. mvg
      mvg 16 June 2020 11: 57 New
      +1
      We can only envy the Chinese that they have a real opportunity to run around the Air Force in air battles with F-16 Block 52, Su-27/30/35 with various weapons and put their fleet against them, including J-10C / D, J- 11/15/16, J-20/31 on their own and imported engines. Remove the signature from the Americans and the French. Also experience air defense.
      We can’t do this, with us, wherever you spit, all the best
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 16 June 2020 13: 44 New
        0
        Quote: mvg
        One can only envy the Chinese that they have a real opportunity to test the air force in an air battle with F-16 Block 52

        And where with F-16 Block 52? I agree with everything else.
        According to the article, nothing really is clear. it can only be noted that before the Chinese claimed that the first dozens could successfully battle with the Su-27 clones in the near, but inferior in the distant. With J-10C, if you believe them, it turns out the opposite.
        1. mvg
          mvg 16 June 2020 13: 51 New
          +3
          where with F-16 Block 52

          Pakistan Air Force. Together with AIM-120S7. Plus, near Japan, Korea. F-15/16/18 and the Indians have fresh Rafal. Watch, I do not want.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 16 June 2020 13: 57 New
            0
            Quote: mvg
            Pakistan Air Force. Together with AIM-120S7

            Oh yes, for sure. They also have a squadron of 52's. I forgot. Then everything is correct.
  6. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 16 June 2020 10: 08 New
    +4
    Ji-10 engines half of the Su-27, My opinion is that we would have a single-engine fighter-bomber would not be out of place with the new glider so fashionable today ala Stealth ..
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 16 June 2020 11: 28 New
      0
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      I would have a single-engine fighter-bomber

      What for?
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      with a new glider

      what for? quantity?
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 16 June 2020 12: 25 New
        0
        Quote: NEOZ
        What for?


        Cheaper and for export. Sharpening for work on the earth.

        what for? quantity?


        In future, change the Su-25 and partially the Su-24.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 16 June 2020 13: 21 New
          0
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          Cheaper

          accordingly weaker than those that are in service, why the Russian Defense Ministry is weaker equipment?
          ps
          Why are owners of large cars with large engines in no hurry to transfer to cheap small cars? - after all, in a small car it’s cheaper !!!!!!!!
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          for export.

          who needs it? provide a list of potential countries-buyers of these devices and their advantage over used fighters (su27 / f15).
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          In future, change the Su-25 and partially the Su-24.

          for these purposes there is su34, why another single-engine?
          ***
          our country does not feel the need for fighters or fighter-bombers, respectively, we do not need any cheap substitutes!

          In this regard, I consider it harmful to spend resources (temporary / financial / scientific) on R&D and the production of equipment with obviously low characteristics (in relation to 2 motor vehicles).

          Well, it’s explanatory with you, we’ll figure out who you are ..... maybe we will pick up an article ...)))))))))
  7. svp67
    svp67 16 June 2020 10: 08 New
    +6
    And how else can the Chinese now promote their products, only with such informational stuffing ...
  8. rocket757
    rocket757 16 June 2020 10: 17 New
    +2
    In fact, attempts to compare the Su-35 and J-10C in the PLA air force look a lot "far-fetched." After all, these aircraft vary significantly in weight.

    Shaw here to say ... master of the master. He wants to get an objective assessment in his household. We need to correctly evaluate our own economy and from that build our future plans.
  9. ZVS
    ZVS 16 June 2020 10: 26 New
    -1
    The Chinese are very happy to tryndet. The lies of the Chinese about their weapons have already become a parable in languages.
    Let the Russian pilot fly the Su-35, and the Chinese - their own trough. And the commission should be mixed from both Russian and Chinese. Then the result of training air combat will be honest.
    If the Su-30 of India was "hollowed out" by American F-16s, then the Chinese trough of the Su-35 will make it easy.
    1. Metlik
      Metlik 16 June 2020 15: 50 New
      +1
      I think China is interested in comparing its aircraft with the Indian su 30.
  10. Carnifexx
    Carnifexx 16 June 2020 10: 48 New
    +1
    I love the Chinese, they didn’t get to the point that the J-10 beat two Su-35s in one, but they can. In general, given the capabilities of the Su-35 and Su-30MKI, statements by the Chinese about their invincible aircraft sound at least strange.
  11. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 16 June 2020 12: 20 New
    +3
    The constant reproaches of the authors about the difference in the mass of the aircraft involved in the comparison are at least stupid. In a real battle, no one will look for an opponent of equal characteristics, especially weight. There, the first person to be discovered is the one who decides whether to attack or not. And do not compare your weight and someone else's.
  12. +5
    +5 16 June 2020 13: 29 New
    0
    Chinese is better !!! Our (Russian-Israeli) old Jin-10 to the new Su-35. We have 2 (two) 5th generation airplanes ... I’m gonna buy some more Su-35s ...
  13. bars1
    bars1 16 June 2020 17: 41 New
    -2
    Radar Irbis in its current form - with the PFAR is outdated. That's all you need to know about the Su-35S
  14. ugol2
    ugol2 16 June 2020 19: 07 New
    +7
    Why compare them?
    They would ask me, I would immediately say -
    Ours is better!
    wassat
  15. Berg berg
    Berg berg 17 June 2020 19: 46 New
    0
    One thing is interesting who piloted these Russian planes, if the Chinese are both there and there, then this is definitely an order! If the Russian SU-35 were bad, then the Chinese would buy them horseradish. And since they bought it, they realized that the Russians are much better and more reliable.
  16. EvilLion
    EvilLion 18 June 2020 08: 50 New
    0
    Apparently, they have done so that it remains only to talk about "showed with dignity." About EPR is ridiculous, if only because its reduction for some effect should be not by tens of percent, but several times, since the detection range is proportional to the 4th root of the EPR. To reduce the range by 2 times, the RCS must be reduced by 16 times.